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ChiTownPacerFan
10-08-2013, 06:16 AM
Let's define this as teams that wouldn't surprise you at all if they won the title.

I say 5.

Miami
San Antonio
Indiana
Chicago
Oklahoma City

Honorable mention to the LA teams, Brooklyn, Memphis, Golden State, New York, Houston, and Denver. All very good teams, but not championship caliber teams, in my opinion.

Hellcrooner
10-08-2013, 06:18 AM
one.
Its theirs to lose.

Guppyfighter
10-08-2013, 06:19 AM
Six. Including the Rockets.

ChiTownPacerFan
10-08-2013, 06:31 AM
one.
Its theirs to lose.

*Sigh* Sad but true.


Six. Including the Rockets.

So let's assume you stepped into your time machine and traveled to the end of June. You turn on ESPN and see the headline "Dwight Howard and the Rockets complete upset of Heat with thrilling game 7 victory in Miami". You're response wouldn't be something to the effect of "whoa!"?

dnl123
10-08-2013, 06:36 AM
I wouldn't put the Bulls in the discussion quite yet. I'm sure they'll likely be a 3 or 4 seed in the East, but that doesn't necessarily qualify you as a title contender.

king4day
10-08-2013, 09:31 AM
Heat, Pacers, Nets & Spurs.

Okc has less depth and I don't think they will make it out of the west as constructed.
Chicago I need to see them. I'd say no as of now for lack off depth too.

HouRealCoach
10-08-2013, 09:43 AM
Nets are NOT a championship contender

Knicks can be if Melo comes in with the right mindset

BALLER R
10-08-2013, 09:52 AM
Is there ever a year where there are legit more than 4 chamionship contenders?

kdspurman
10-08-2013, 09:53 AM
Here's a decent article on this very subject-

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9790038/ranking-nba-tiers-power-2013-14-season

DreamShaker
10-08-2013, 10:17 AM
I really think OKC and Houston are depending on young guys to step up. Jeremy Lamb and Reggie (Jackson? Drawing a blank) need to fill that void left by Harden/Martin in ways we have not seen from them. In Houston, D-Mo or Jones have to break out as a starting big. A trade is possible on both teams to shift the balance, but till then, they both have question marks.

I'm going to be optimistic, if not a bit of a homer, and include both teams. So my list goes...

Heat
Spurs
Rockets
Thunder
Pacers
Clippers

I'm not sold on the Nets putting so much stock in KG/PP. Not sure they move the needle enough at this stage. Also not sold on the Bulls staying healthy. It never happens.

Heediot
10-08-2013, 10:25 AM
Heat are the only legit contenders.

Everyone else has question marks and are a wait and see types.

Spurs, can they prove the doubters wrong after a year of aging of their big 3, will Leonard's improvement off-set that?

Thunder - Can Jeremy Lamb be the spark off the bench that the thunder need? I personally think he'll average double digits if given the minutes.

Clippers - How will Doc transform the team? Can Blake make that leap and challenge for the best PF moniker? Can DJ improve his FT and defensive awareness?

Rockets - RUmors say the pick n roll game in Houston can be deadly? DWight didn't do as well with a PNR god in Nash last year. Can Dwight gell with the team as structured?

Pacers - A stronger bench including the reurn of Granger, will that put them over the top to be Miami?

Nets - A lot of talent and payroll. WIll KG`s defensive presence help, or will age catch up to him and decline Pierce even furtherÉ

Bulls - Anytime you have a former MVP coming back to a very good team, you have to see if they are capable.

Clippersfan86
10-08-2013, 10:30 AM
Heat
Spurs
Clippers
Warriors
Pacers
Bulls

Thunder have fallen out of it for me. Sure they will win 55+ games perennially but come playoff time the predictable offensive of relying on two stars just dies. They also have a mediocre coach who makes a lot of simple mistakes. They have lost a lot of key pieces in the last few years so unless all of the role players like Jackson, Lamb, PJ and Adams really explode and fill in well for previous players... I see another step back. Factor in that Westbrook is out the first 6 weeks of the season and I could easily see OKC not being a HCA team with all the deadly western conference teams.

I'm not including the Nets because although the talent is there, they have an EXTREMELY old and fragile team. I will be shocked if even 75 percent of their core is healthy come playoff time. I also think they won't mesh quick enough because of so many players that contrast in playstyle and personality. I think skillset wise it's a great balanced mix but mentally it's going to be tough. I also don't believe a rookie head coach can control that much talent, with such a vocal locker room. He will likely lose the locker room halfway through the season.

I'm shocked very few of you are including the Warriors. This team was a few breaks from the freaking WCF last year in just their first year in the playoffs as a group. They looked like THE best team in the playoffs a lot of the time and went out and got even better this summer by quite a bit. If they can stay healthy (big if) they absolutely are true title contenders, as much as it pains me to say it :p.

ManningToTyree
10-08-2013, 11:08 AM
Mia
sa
okc

FlashBolt
10-08-2013, 11:43 AM
I'm sorry but Rockets shouldn't be on this list. If you're a homer, you probably know this as well.

jstone0716
10-08-2013, 11:49 AM
These are really the only teams I see contending this year.

1) Miami
2) San Antonio
3) Indiana
4) Nets ( they're either going to crash and burn or be scary as *****.. I'm betting on the latter )

_____________________________

Any of these teams have a chance of sneaking into the finals

5) OKC
6) Golden State
7) Chicago
8) Rockets

Still don't see LAC as a real contender. Memphis needs more offense.

DR_1
10-08-2013, 11:58 AM
I see several teams with a chance of winning it this year:

Bulls
Heat
Pacers
Knicks
Nets
Clippers
Spurs
Thunder
Warriors
Rockets
Grizzlies

It's going to be a fun season. Nobody's really head and shoulders above the rest of the league this year.

therealwd27
10-08-2013, 12:10 PM
I see several teams with a chance of winning it this year:

Bulls
Heat
Pacers
Knicks
Nets
Clippers
Spurs
Thunder
Warriors
Rockets
Grizzlies

It's going to be a fun season. Nobody's really head and shoulders above the rest of the league this year.


Besides the defending back to back champs, I can't really think of a team who's head and shoulders above the rest lol

nycericanguy
10-08-2013, 01:21 PM
Besides the defending back to back champs, I can't really think of a team who's head and shoulders above the rest lol

Pretty much, maybe the Spurs because they really had MIA beat last year and they just have such a savvy team.

But IND, NY, CHI, BK, MEM, OKC, LAC are all really bunched together, and anyone of those teams, if things click like they did for DAL in 2010 could win it all.

MavsFan4eva
10-08-2013, 03:25 PM
I want to see the cavs like this
PG: Kyrie
SG: Dion Waiters
SF: LeBron
PF: Anthony Bennett
C: Andrew Bynum

2015 NBA CHAMPS http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kgjjfp6

Goose17
10-08-2013, 03:37 PM
Miami and Spurs.

Anyone else would surprise me. Some more than others.

Guppyfighter
10-08-2013, 03:40 PM
*Sigh* Sad but true.



So let's assume you stepped into your time machine and traveled to the end of June. You turn on ESPN and see the headline "Dwight Howard and the Rockets complete upset of Heat with thrilling game 7 victory in Miami". You're response wouldn't be something to the effect of "whoa!"?

I could see that. It's not far fetched. Heat were very close to elimination twice. And being eliminated in the finals by a team with Dwight Howard, James Harden, and a filled out roster wouldn't shock me.

J4KOP99
10-08-2013, 03:42 PM
Miami and OKC (if 100% healthy).... other than that, nobody

-If Miami is healthy, they should win it.

I think the Clippers and Spurs will also be very good this year. Chicago is good and as long as Rose is healthy, they will be very strong again but they just don't have enough to beat Lebron. Indiana should be strong again and their big men give MIA a problem but I don't think they can beat them in a 7 game series. Brooklyn is actually a hell of a match up for Miami. My only issue with BRooklyn is their age.

Miami



OKC (healthy)



everyone else

J4KOP99
10-08-2013, 03:52 PM
Here are the odds provided by Bovada


Odds to win 2014 NBA Championship

Miami Heat 2/1
Chicago Bulls 8/1
Oklahoma City Thunder 8/1
Los Angeles Clippers 9/1
Houston Rockets 10/1
Indiana Pacers 10/1
Brooklyn Nets 10/1
San Antonio Spurs 12/1
Golden State Warriors 16/1
New York Knicks 22/1
Memphis Grizzlies 28/1
Los Angeles Lakers 33/1
Dallas Mavericks 50/1
Denver Nuggets 50/1
Cleveland Cavaliers 66/1
Detroit Pistons 75/1
Minnesota Timberwolves 100/1
New Orleans Pelicans 100/1
Washington Wizards 100/1
Atlanta Hawks 150/1
Boston Celtics 150/1
Portland Trail Blazers 150/1
Toronto Raptors 150/1
Utah Jazz 150/1
Milwaukee Bucks 250/1
Philadelphia 76ers 300/1
Phoenix Suns 300/1
Sacramento Kings 300/1
Charlotte Bobcats 500/1
Orlando Magic 500/1

http://nba.si.com/2013/10/08/nba-title-odds-preseason-miami-heat-chicago-bulls-oklahoma-city-thunder/?sct=hp_t2_a10&eref=sihp

bearadonisdna
10-08-2013, 06:10 PM
Besides the defending back to back champs, I can't really think of a team who's head and shoulders above the rest lol


Wait a minute, how they are head and shoulders above. They barely escaped two game 7 series. In fact the finals series win was one of the most IMPROBABLE in history.

Minimal
10-08-2013, 06:31 PM
The only teams I wouldn't be surprised in winning a title this year are Heat, Spurs and Clippers.

Dade County
10-08-2013, 07:15 PM
double

Dade County
10-08-2013, 07:15 PM
Wait a minute, how they are head and shoulders above. They barely escaped two game 7 series. In fact the finals series win was one of the most IMPROBABLE in history.

they beat the pacers by like 23pts, when they decided to turn in up in the 2nd half of game 7. Just imagine if they got the ok from the start of the series (lol).

And the Spurs series... Yeah Lbj almost got one pulled over on him ( they wont happen anymore, he learned his listen ), I don't see the HEAT taken nights off anymore during the playoffs, stern tried to pull a fast one in game 6; but Bosh & Ray happened.

Mr.SmackYoMama
10-08-2013, 07:32 PM
they beat the pacers by like 23pts, when they decided to turn in up in the 2nd half of game 7. Just imagine if they got the ok from the start of the series (lol).

And the spurs series... Yeah lbj almost got one pulled over on him ( they ant happen anymore, he learned his listen ), i don't see the heat taken nights off anymore during the playoffs, stern tried to pull a fast one in game 6; but bosh & ray happened.

Don't skip english class anymore........just trust me.

DR_1
10-08-2013, 07:45 PM
Besides the defending back to back champs, I can't really think of a team who's head and shoulders above the rest lol

No Miami is not the same team they were one or two years ago take off the Heat blinders. They barely beat the Pacers and Spurs, Wade is declining and Bosh isn't getting any better either.

kdspurman
10-08-2013, 08:51 PM
they beat the pacers by like 23pts, when they decided to turn in up in the 2nd half of game 7. Just imagine if they got the ok from the start of the series (lol).

And the Spurs series... Yeah Lbj almost got one pulled over on him ( they ant happen anymore, he learned his listen ), I don't see the HEAT taken nights off anymore during the playoffs, stern tried to pull a fast one in game 6; but Bosh & Ray happened.

:confused:

I Rock Shaqs
10-08-2013, 09:35 PM
let's define this as teams that wouldn't surprise you at all if they won the title.

I say 5.

Miami
san antonio
indiana
chicago
oklahoma city

honorable mention to the la teams, brooklyn, memphis, golden state, new york, houston, and denver. All very good teams, but not championship caliber teams, in my opinion.

#3hunna.

I Rock Shaqs
10-08-2013, 09:39 PM
But seriously I understand it's only Knicks fans saying this but how the heck does a team that hasn't made any improvements over the last few years of losing in the second round every year become a Championship contender?
2. How is OKC a championship contender??? All they did was lose a bunch of their players and nobody significant back.
3. Nobody has GSW? They clearly got better and took the Spurs to 6 games last year.

Clippersfan86
10-08-2013, 09:57 PM
But seriously I understand it's only Knicks fans saying this but how the heck does a team that hasn't made any improvements over the last few years of losing in the second round every year become a Championship contender?
2. How is OKC a championship contender??? All they did was lose a bunch of their players and nobody significant back.
3. Nobody has GSW? They clearly got better and took the Spurs to 6 games last year.

The one guy you said you don't take seriously anymore (me) was the only one to have the Warriors and explain why in this thread I think.

Kashmir13579
10-08-2013, 11:04 PM
Spurs, Miami, and probably Bulls are legit. Teams like Indiana, Knicks, Clippers, OKC, and Houston (?) also have potential to do big things.

Kashmir13579
10-08-2013, 11:06 PM
But seriously I understand it's only Knicks fans saying this but how the heck does a team that hasn't made any improvements over the last few years of losing in the second round every year become a Championship contender?
2. How is OKC a championship contender??? All they did was lose a bunch of their players and nobody significant back.
3. Nobody has GSW? They clearly got better and took the Spurs to 6 games last year.
If you don't think the Knicks got better you aren't paying attention. Fans like you said the same thing last year and were wrong.

Guppyfighter
10-09-2013, 12:12 AM
If you don't think the Knicks got better you aren't paying attention. Fans like you said the same thing last year and were wrong.

Getting better is relative to your competition. Knicks looks like a fourth or fifth seed. Which is not an improvement by any stretch.

Clippersfan86
10-09-2013, 12:15 AM
Getting better is relative to your competition. Knicks looks like a fourth or fifth seed. Which is not an improvement by any stretch.

How I feel too. Knicks got a little better but so did the Heat, Pacers, Bulls and Nets... the four teams likely to be ahead of them or at least fighting with them for positioning.

Bishnoff
10-09-2013, 01:20 AM
Let's define this as teams that wouldn't surprise you at all if they won the title.

I say 5.

Miami
San Antonio
Indiana
Chicago
Oklahoma City

Honorable mention to the LA teams, Brooklyn, Memphis, Golden State, New York, Houston, and Denver. All very good teams, but not championship caliber teams, in my opinion.

I'd have Warriors, Nets, and Clippers in there. Lakers and Nuggets might not even make the Playoffs.

Bishnoff
10-09-2013, 01:23 AM
Heat
Spurs
Clippers
Warriors
Pacers
Bulls

Thunder have fallen out of it for me. Sure they will win 55+ games perennially but come playoff time the predictable offensive of relying on two stars just dies. They also have a mediocre coach who makes a lot of simple mistakes. They have lost a lot of key pieces in the last few years so unless all of the role players like Jackson, Lamb, PJ and Adams really explode and fill in well for previous players... I see another step back. Factor in that Westbrook is out the first 6 weeks of the season and I could easily see OKC not being a HCA team with all the deadly western conference teams.

I'm not including the Nets because although the talent is there, they have an EXTREMELY old and fragile team. I will be shocked if even 75 percent of their core is healthy come playoff time. I also think they won't mesh quick enough because of so many players that contrast in playstyle and personality. I think skillset wise it's a great balanced mix but mentally it's going to be tough. I also don't believe a rookie head coach can control that much talent, with such a vocal locker room. He will likely lose the locker room halfway through the season.

I'm shocked very few of you are including the Warriors. This team was a few breaks from the freaking WCF last year in just their first year in the playoffs as a group. They looked like THE best team in the playoffs a lot of the time and went out and got even better this summer by quite a bit. If they can stay healthy (big if) they absolutely are true title contenders, as much as it pains me to say it :p.

I like this list.

Clippersfan86
10-09-2013, 01:57 AM
The Nets, Grizzlies, Thunder and Rockets are the teams that are close IMO. Basically fringe contenders that if things break lucky for them, they can definitely make noise and possibly get to the finals. I think highly of these teams in general, but my list was compromised of teams I feel WILL be in the discussion this year consistently and won't have so many unknowns. Damn... that's like 11 teams that have at least a small shot at the title. Pretty scary to think about how competitive and cutthroat the league is right now.

Supreme LA
10-09-2013, 02:53 AM
one.
Its theirs to lose.

That's not true. As I recall, San Antonio had the series won and they were the ones who ended up losing it.

PacersForLife
10-09-2013, 03:38 AM
Miami
Pacers
Bulls
Spurs
OKC

Clips and Nets not too far behind, but I would be a bit surprised if they won the ship before seeing how they look. Right after those two I have the Rockets and Warriors.

amos1er
10-09-2013, 04:35 AM
Lest be real. It's Miami's to lose. They are just too stacked. Now with Oden and Beasley it's truly unfair. It's honestly not even fun to watch anymore.

Cue the "then don't watch" responses in 3, 2, 1...

DaBear
10-09-2013, 05:02 AM
Lest be real. It's Miami's to lose. They are just too stacked. Now with Oden and Beasley it's truly unfair. It's honestly not even fun to watch anymore.

Cue the "then don't watch" responses in 3, 2, 1...

Oden is an injury waiting to happen.

smiddy012
10-09-2013, 06:55 AM
I wouldn't put the Bulls in the discussion quite yet. I'm sure they'll likely be a 3 or 4 seed in the East, but that doesn't necessarily qualify you as a title contender.

3 or 4 seed in th east? You do realize they were a fifth seed last year with no Rose at all? Not to mention Hinrich, Hamilton, Taj, & Noah missed time in the regular season too. Season before that Rose was 80% healthy a little over half of their regular season games, ended up with the 1st seed (like the season before that where Rose was the only starter who could stay healthy).

If history is any indicator, you're wrong. At worst they'll be a 3rd seed, but I wouldn't bet on it. With Houston and Brooklyn you got untested experiments, whereas Chicago has already proven their consistency year in and out with the same core of guys (add JB as a starter this year). NY has a shot, but Melo's going to have to have the best season of his career for that to happen.

nycericanguy
10-09-2013, 08:53 AM
Getting better is relative to your competition. Knicks looks like a fourth or fifth seed. Which is not an improvement by any stretch.

They got better and they were a game away from the ECF last year despite JR being injured and shooting 26% in the Pacer series, and despite Chandler battling the neck injury. Despite getting ZERO from the bench too, which won't happen this year with guys like Beno, MWP, Kmart, JR...etc...

Everyone said we were a 6-8th seed last year too...

But really, who cares so much about seeding? After MIA, NY, IND, BK & CHI will all be bunched up together, probably all within a few wins of each other... there won't be a huge difference between the #2 or #5 seed unless injuries play a big role.

JasonJohnHorn
10-09-2013, 11:45 AM
East:
Heat
Nets
Pacers


West:
SAS
OKC
LAC
GSW

If a team other than those 7 teams wins it all, I will be flabbergasted. OKC depends on injuries though... is Westy or KD go down, they will be lucky to get out of the first round.

Houston has a long way to go before they are contenders. They may get a deep playoff run, and if a rash of injuries breaks out in the west, they could get to the finals, but there is not way they could beat three healthy contenders this season. Denver lost their best player. Memphis lost their coach (and only got as deep as they did due to injuries to BG and Westy), the Knicks aren't any better this year than last (and they weren't good enough last year), the Bulls have potential, but they lost convincingly to the Heat when they were healthy and the Heat wasn't as good then as they are now. The Pacers and Nets seem like the only teams that could challenge a healthy Heat team in the East.

In the West teams are in flux. Clips + Warriors should be great, but OKC needs a 100% healthy roster as do the Spurs if they hope to compete for a title, and neither seems likely. OKC's draft pick may prove to be a great player, if that's the case... watch out. If not... they will struggle to get to the conference finals.... it was one thing to lose Harden for an All-Star shooting guard like K-Mart, but then to let K-Mart walk and get nothing back? That is a heavy load on Westy and KD... they have to be 100% healthy and play to ther max potential every night to make up for the loss of Harden/Martin.

nycericanguy
10-09-2013, 11:49 AM
Knicks were 4 minutes away from taking IND to a game 7 at MSG... despite pretty much everything going wrong that series.

And I gotta say I LOVED our chances in a game 7 at MSG.

People act like IND is on a whole nother level and like they blew NY away...

It's crazy how one or two plays can change everyones perception of things. Just like Ray Allen hitting that big 3 to save MIA's season. Or the LBJ layup saved MIA against IND. That's how close these series are sometimes... yet the losing team gets put on a whole different lower tier? don't get it at all.

SanAntonioSpurs23
10-09-2013, 12:04 PM
Miami















Everyone else

nycericanguy
10-09-2013, 12:09 PM
Miami















Everyone else

Lol, I know you're joking but that's literally how everyone acts...

no one stops to think that the Spurs & Pacers were seconds away from beating MIA.

todu82
10-09-2013, 12:16 PM
I think the Knicks have to be considered title contenders this season, depends on if their key players give their 100% though.

D-Leethal
10-09-2013, 12:56 PM
1st tier contenders are Miami, SA Chi, OKC, Clips

2nd tier Indy, BK, Knicks, Grizz

D-Leethal
10-09-2013, 12:58 PM
If you don't think the Knicks got better you aren't paying attention. Fans like you said the same thing last year and were wrong.

Getting better is relative to your competition. Knicks looks like a fourth or fifth seed. Which is not an improvement by any stretch.

Competition may determine your seeding but it doesn't determine if you got better.

bearadonisdna
10-09-2013, 01:20 PM
1st tier contenders are Miami, SA Chi, OKC, Clips

2nd tier Indy, BK, Knicks, Grizz


think this is a good list but would replace okc and clips with indy and bk. Also maybe rockets and GS in the second tier.

ztilzer31
10-09-2013, 01:27 PM
If Maimi gets a solid 15 MPG from Oden the no one will be anywhere near them by the end of the season.

JoeBlessU
10-09-2013, 01:41 PM
Miami















Everyone else

Spot on.. There is ONE team with a chance to win a title, Miami. NBA has zero parity.

beasted86
10-09-2013, 02:01 PM
East: HEAT, Pacers
West: Spurs, Clippers, Grizzlies

Bulls are a weaker team all around than they were 3 years ago, so I really don't understand why people think they are a contender. Rose will not be as good as he was his MVP season. Boozer will not be a 17 PPG player like he was 3 years ago. Deng will not be a 17 PPG player like he was 3 years ago. They don't have the defensive front court off the bench when they had Asik from 3 years ago. Dunleavy is fresh off a career high year, but the reality is he's not as good a 3PT shooter as Korver from 3 years ago. What they do have better is Hinrich is a better defender than Watson ever was, and Butler has similar defense, but better offense than Brewer or Bogans. Noah has also made some improvements. But those don't override the above, especially the factor of Rose not being as good as his MVP season.

Guppyfighter
10-09-2013, 02:16 PM
They got better and they were a game away from the ECF last year despite JR being injured and shooting 26% in the Pacer series, and despite Chandler battling the neck injury. Despite getting ZERO from the bench too, which won't happen this year with guys like Beno, MWP, Kmart, JR...etc...

Everyone said we were a 6-8th seed last year too...

But really, who cares so much about seeding? After MIA, NY, IND, BK & CHI will all be bunched up together, probably all within a few wins of each other... there won't be a huge difference between the #2 or #5 seed unless injuries play a big role.

He shot that much because the Knicks are a three point shooting, isolation team. Both things the Pacers are best in the league at defending. Not much has changed.

Guppyfighter
10-09-2013, 02:18 PM
Competition may determine your seeding but it doesn't determine if you got better.

Jesus, stop with semantics. It does.

I am not sure why Knick fans have taken up the stance, that even if you have a worse record, differential, and seeding that you aren't worse. Because this years team could beat last years team? I don't know why you think this, but you are wrong.

PacersForLife
10-09-2013, 02:25 PM
1st tier contenders are Miami, SA Chi, OKC, Clips

2nd tier Indy, BK, Knicks, Grizz

How are the Clips first tier and not the Pacers?

SanAntonioSpurs23
10-09-2013, 03:11 PM
IMO I think there are really only 4 teams ON PAPER that can compete for a title. Miami, Indiana, San Antonio, and the Nets. Granted it's a long season and anything can happen, but I don't see OKC, Chicago, or New York really being threats as of now.

Memphis and LAC could be considered a "dark horse".

JoeBlessU
10-09-2013, 03:28 PM
^^^^ Cant we all just be friends and admit the NBA blows?.. Over grown egotistical/narcassistic children putting a ball in a hole, flopping all over the court if a gust of wind hits them.

PacersForLife
10-09-2013, 03:45 PM
^^^^ Cant we all just be friends and admit the NBA blows?.. Over grown egotistical/narcassistic children putting a ball in a hole, flopping all over the court if a gust of wind hits them.

Yeah I'd rather sit out in an outfield and pick grass all day.

JoeBlessU
10-09-2013, 03:51 PM
Yeah I'd rather sit out in an outfield and pick grass all day.

Not a huge baseball fan either so im with ya there...:cheers:

DR_1
10-09-2013, 03:52 PM
Heat fans are so scared of the Bulls that they refuse to admit it :laugh2:

beasted86
10-09-2013, 03:58 PM
Heat fans are so scared of the Bulls that they refuse to admit it :laugh2:

Yes, I am scared of the team we beat twice in 5 games on our way to the Finals. We stand no chance at all.

Goose17
10-09-2013, 04:17 PM
I also have no clue what Carlos Boozer you have been watching. He is a worse player, from basically all statistical categories. Scoring, rebounding, passing, efficiency, defensive rating, wins shares, you name it.

Well his TRB% and AST% went up and his free throw shooting improved by like 3 or 4 percent, but in general you're right, his stats dropped.

...And you don't think there's a correlation between his decrease in statistical efficiency and the absence of Rose? You're looking at this wrong, he's playing worse, yes, but is he actually getting worse? No. He's just not playing with Rose, and when he was playing with Rose he was much better, because Rose MAKES him better.

The Bulls were a top 5 team in the East last season. Rose coming back certainly isn't going to make them worse.

The Bulls finished in the top 5 for defensive efficiency last season, they were in the top 10 for rebounding, top 6 for assists and top 10 for fewest turnovers. Taking injuries into account most of that was essentially with a bunch of role players.

Where did they struggle? Scoring points. What is the one thing you can always rely on Rose to do? Get buckets and demand so much attention defensively, freeing up team mates for easy buckets.

Rockice_8
10-09-2013, 04:24 PM
MIA
SAS
OKC
BK
INDY
HOU

I'll say those 6
CHI and GS are fringe contenders, the tough outs that nobody wants to see.

Rockice_8
10-09-2013, 04:27 PM
Heat fans are so scared of the Bulls that they refuse to admit it :laugh2:

My only issue with the Bulls is they lack the depth to keep their guys fresh come playoff time. They are always banged up when the playoffs start from Thibs playing his guys 40+ min. I don't expect that to change this year either.

Goose17
10-09-2013, 04:33 PM
Anyone that has Brooklyn and Houston as contenders but not Chicago are seriously tripping.

jstone0716
10-09-2013, 04:44 PM
Anyone that has Brooklyn and Houston as contenders but not Chicago are seriously tripping.

I agree with you on the Rockets, but the Nets are legit. They're not a bunch of egotistical superstars.. it's a bunch of hardworking & experienced veterans that want to win another ring. Sure they're old but they still got 2 young all stars in D-Will and Lopez, and the veterans have enough gas for another run or two. ECF at least.

beasted86
10-09-2013, 04:57 PM
Well his TRB% and AST% went up and his free throw shooting improved by like 3 or 4 percent, but in general you're right, his stats dropped.
His TRB% and AST% both dropped.


...And you don't think there's a correlation between his decrease in statistical efficiency and the absence of Rose? You're looking at this wrong, he's playing worse, yes, but is he actually getting worse? No. He's just not playing with Rose, and when he was playing with Rose he was much better, because Rose MAKES him better.

I guess this is the true debate point. Assuming there is a direct relationship, Rose 3 years ago was at his best, and therefore Boozer 3 years ago was also at his best while playing with the Bulls. So the same logic line would continue... if Rose isn't as good as he was 3 years ago, Boozer will continue to not be as good as he was 3 years ago.


The Bulls were a top 5 team in the East last season. Rose coming back certainly isn't going to make them worse.

The Bulls finished in the top 5 for defensive efficiency last season, they were in the top 10 for rebounding, top 6 for assists and top 10 for fewest turnovers. Taking injuries into account most of that was essentially with a bunch of role players.

Where did they struggle? Scoring points. What is the one thing you can always rely on Rose to do? Get buckets and demand so much attention defensively, freeing up team mates for easy buckets.

The Bulls will continue to be a top defensive team, be a playoff team, and most likely reach the 2nd round again. That's not what is up for debate here. What's up for debate is whether they are a contender, which in my opinion is a team that has a high likelihood of making the Conference Finals and or Finals. I don't see the team as good as 10-11 from an offensive or defensive point, but it's just my opinion, and only time will tell.

Goose17
10-09-2013, 05:00 PM
I agree with you on the Rockets, but the Nets are legit. They're not a bunch of egotistical superstars.. it's a bunch of hardworking & experienced veterans that want to win another ring. Sure they're old but they still got 2 young all stars in D-Will and Lopez, and the veterans have enough gas for another run or two. ECF at least.

Garnett is one of the most egotistical players to ever step onto an NBA court.

It's not all about ego, they've got a head coach who last year was playing against them as one of their biggest rivals, on top of that he's clearly suffering from alcohol problems, then you throw in team chemistry in general, I'm still not convinced Joe and Pierce can coexist on a court together at this specific point in time (I know they have previously but it's different situations), Deron needs to play consistently at an all-star caliber level, he hasn't done that for a minute now. Garnett played less than 70 games last season (and under 30 minutes per), he's a year older now. He's been stepping up in the post season but over the last 5 years has really been fighting the wear and tear of the regular season, he's truly aged (when compared to someone like Timmy who is just consistently awe-inspiring). JET isn't anything like what he was in the not so distant past,

I'm not doubting the talent is there, but this team has literally been built overnight, there's A LOT of variables, more so than the Lakers had last year, for now they're just as likely to succeed as they are to fall apart.

Just my opinion.

jstone0716
10-09-2013, 05:08 PM
Garnett is one of the most egotistical players to ever step onto an NBA court.

It's not all about ego, they've got a head coach who last year was playing against them as one of their biggest rivals, on top of that he's clearly suffering from alcohol problems, then you throw in team chemistry in general, I'm still not convinced Joe and Pierce can coexist on a court together at this specific point in time (I know they have previously but it's different situations), Deron needs to play consistently at an all-star caliber level, he hasn't done that for a minute now. Garnett played less than 70 games last season (and under 30 minutes per), he's a year older now. He's been stepping up in the post season but over the last 5 years has really been fighting the wear and tear of the regular season, he's truly aged (when compared to someone like Timmy who is just consistently awe-inspiring). JET isn't anything like what he was in the not so distant past,

I'm not doubting the talent is there, but this team has literally been built overnight, there's A LOT of variables, more so than the Lakers had last year, for now they're just as likely to succeed as they are to fall apart.

Just my opinion.

Garnetts ego is strictly competitive. It makes him the defensive monster he is, he doesn't demand the ball or a certain amount of minutes ( or lack their of ). Everything he does is for the good of the team. Off the court he's a great guy and a great team mate.

But I hear you on the rest. I think they have the motivation to figure it out, and if they do it's a scary *** team come playoff time.

DR_1
10-09-2013, 05:26 PM
Yes, I am scared of the team we beat twice in 5 games on our way to the Finals. We stand no chance at all.

:facepalm:

You failed to mention that outside of Game 1 (a Bulls blowout) that every single game in that series came to the last 2 minutes. It could have gone either way. Also Bulls now have an above average shooting guard in Jimmy Butler rather than the awful Keith Bogans.

And, Boozer was playing hurt that series. And you can't even take last into account whatsoever because half the Bulls team was injured including Rose, yet the games were STILL close. Get a clue.

DR_1
10-09-2013, 05:27 PM
Anyone that has Brooklyn and Houston as contenders but not Chicago are seriously tripping.

This. Also cannot understand how people have Houston over Golden State.

beasted86
10-09-2013, 05:37 PM
:facepalm:

You failed to mention that outside of Game 1 (a Bulls blowout) that every single game in that series came to the last 2 minutes. It could have gone either way. Also Bulls now have an above average shooting guard in Jimmy Butler rather than the awful Keith Bogans.

And, Boozer was playing hurt that series. And you can't even take last into account whatsoever because half the Bulls team was injured including Rose, yet the games were STILL close. Get a clue.
What exactly does close games mean when you lose in 5 games? This really confuses me to be honest.

The Pacers came close to beating the HEAT, the Spurs came close to beating the HEAT. The Bulls haven't come close to beating the HEAT for the past couple years.

And by the way, Boozer is always injured and we all know that, so please don't bring that up. He has held that injury prone tag for a while now. Same goes for Noah and Deng. Doesn't make sense using it as an excuse if its become an expectation. Haslem and Miller were both injured in 10-11 anyway. To a team that had all 3 of its allstars take a discount specifically to sign those 2, yes it matters and makes a difference.

Kashmir13579
10-09-2013, 05:45 PM
Getting better is relative to your competition. Knicks looks like a fourth or fifth seed. Which is not an improvement by any stretch.
You think if we get a 4th seed it automatically means we're a worse team than last year? Or because the east is getting better that somehow lessens the improvement the Knicks made? We were the second seed, we made offseason improvements, as far as i'm concerned the burden of proof is on the rest of the East including the Nets.

beasted86
10-09-2013, 05:52 PM
You think if we get a 4th seed it automatically means we're a worse team than last year? Or because the east is getting better that somehow lessens the improvement the Knicks made? We were the second seed, we made offseason improvements, as far as i'm concerned the burden of proof is on the rest of the East including the Nets.

I pretty much have to agree with this. The main concern though is what level of input Stoudemire has, and what Smith looks like regaining his form after surgery. It's basically become an expectation that Stoudemire will be injured, and if Smith's efficiency for the first month or so looks like it did in the 2nd round, then Knicks are in for some early standings trouble.

At some point you have to take into account how "out of their mind" the Knicks role players were shooting the ball and defending early, and its unknown how the team will start this season.

Kashmir13579
10-09-2013, 06:18 PM
I pretty much have to agree with this. The main concern though is what level of input Stoudemire has, and what Smith looks like regaining his form after surgery. It's basically become an expectation that Stoudemire will be injured, and if Smith's efficiency for the first month or so looks like it did in the 2nd round, then Knicks are in for some early standings trouble.

At some point you have to take into account how "out of their mind" the Knicks role players were shooting the ball and defending early, and its unknown how the team will start this season.
At this point we just have to rule out Stat. Anything he can give is a bonus but we're basically moving on without him.

In the case of JR Smith, we have Prigs, Shumpert, and possibly Hardaway JR that can play his early season minutes. It isn't our the depth at SG that worries me as much as our coach has a real hard-on for JR and doesn't bench him or hold him accountable when he's playing like ***.

DR_1
10-09-2013, 07:31 PM
What exactly does close games mean when you lose in 5 games? This really confuses me to be honest.

The Pacers came close to beating the HEAT, the Spurs came close to beating the HEAT. The Bulls haven't come close to beating the HEAT for the past couple years.

And by the way, Boozer is always injured and we all know that, so please don't bring that up. He has held that injury prone tag for a while now. Same goes for Noah and Deng. Doesn't make sense using it as an excuse if its become an expectation. Haslem and Miller were both injured in 10-11 anyway. To a team that had all 3 of its allstars take a discount specifically to sign those 2, yes it matters and makes a difference.

1. It's not that hard to understand, you say the Heat are much better than the Bulls. They aren't. That series could have gone either way, and that was when the Bulls were worse than they are now.

2. And no, Deng, Boozer, and Noah are not injury prone. Are you living under a rock? Boozer has been consistently healthy the past 2 season and has even played every game for the Bulls last year. Deng has consistently played through injuries. Noah had a couple of bouts with plantar, but other than that he's been fine. And yes it does matter that you beat us with injuries, our FOUR BEST PLAYERS ARE HURT. Had the Bulls been healthy they would have definitely won that series.

3. Miller and Haslem are supporting players, not All-Stars like Noah and Deng. Any half-knowledgeable basketball fan can see that there is a HUGE difference. Miller in particular contributes almost nothing other than 3-point shooting.

4. Having a couple of star free agents take a discount means nothing in debating whether the Heat are Bulls, classic Heat fan response.

Kashmir13579
10-09-2013, 07:40 PM
I think maybe the Bulls are injury prone, but that hasn't stopped them from playing and performing through injuries. Thats a tough batch of guys right there with a tough-as-nails coach behind them.

goku
10-09-2013, 09:03 PM
Heat
Bulls " though lack of depth could be a problem"
Pacers
Thunder "if healthy but need to get rid of Perkins"
Spurs " prolly their last yr in contention"
Dark Horse
Rockets
Warriors
Clips " I just don't think they are all that great plus Jordan still starting"
Griz
nets
knicks

Chronz
10-09-2013, 09:42 PM
You think if we get a 4th seed it automatically means we're a worse team than last year? Or because the east is getting better that somehow lessens the improvement the Knicks made? We were the second seed, we made offseason improvements, as far as i'm concerned the burden of proof is on the rest of the East including the Nets.
Was being 2nd in the East really so different from being 3rd or 4th? The level of play between the fringe contenders was pretty much even. The best additions are whats causing the change of heart.

beasted86
10-09-2013, 09:53 PM
1. It's not that hard to understand, you say the Heat are much better than the Bulls. They aren't. That series could have gone either way, and that was when the Bulls were worse than they are now.

So when Bulls fans were bragging and clowning and claiming they had the HEAT's number because you swept the regular season series, did it matter that all of the games were close (+3.3)? No. So why the double standard when the games actually matter a whole lot more in the playoffs and the margin in your losses was actually greater (-8.0)? Seriously just stop. The Bulls lost to the better team. It doesn't even start to make sense that a team that couldn't win more than 1 game in a series could have actually won the series. I want you to soak in the ridiculousness of your statement... A team that could only win 1 of 5 playoff games was really just as good as the other team and could have easily won the series instead. Hmmmm.... :crazy:


2. And no, Deng, Boozer, and Noah are not injury prone. Are you living under a rock? Boozer has been consistently healthy the past 2 season and has even played every game for the Bulls last year. Deng has consistently played through injuries. Noah had a couple of bouts with plantar, but other than that he's been fine. And yes it does matter that you beat us with injuries, our FOUR BEST PLAYERS ARE HURT. Had the Bulls been healthy they would have definitely won that series.

3. Miller and Haslem are supporting players, not All-Stars like Noah and Deng. Any half-knowledgeable basketball fan can see that there is a HUGE difference. Miller in particular contributes almost nothing other than 3-point shooting.

Haslem and Miller's injuries needed major midseason surgery which required them to miss multiple months and they came back as shells of their former self if you compare their stats before and after the injuries. Aside from a broken finger before the season started for Boozer, what did he have sprained ankles? You might want to re-do the research to recall what injuries he supposedly had at the time. Boozer broke his finger to start the season, then sprained his ankle a couple times that's it.

As far as injury prone, you must have your head in the clouds. Boozer has had that injury prone tag since his Jazz days, ask any one of their fans. He's constantly missing games or banged up. Deng's unofficial nickname was Mr. Glass, just do a Google search and tell me how many hits you get. Noah has consistently been injured his whole career, again, I don't know what you are seeing here. He played 396 out of a possible 476 games in his 6 years. His coaches have also never rested him at the end of the season to prep for playoffs before you dive into another excuse.


4. Having a couple of star free agents take a discount means nothing in debating whether the Heat are Bulls, classic Heat fan response.

Same as "we basically got swept, but the games were CLOSE!!!! That counts for something doesn't it?!?!" similarly means nothing and is a classic Bulls fan response.

JWorthy42
10-09-2013, 10:04 PM
Miami.

Maybe the Clippers if DJ keeps up his play. Also the Nets could pose a threat to the Heat if they play smart and as a unit.

EDIT: Forgot about the Bulls. I can see them make some noise if everything goes right.

Kashmir13579
10-09-2013, 10:29 PM
Was being 2nd in the East really so different from being 3rd or 4th? The level of play between the fringe contenders was pretty much even. The best additions are whats causing the change of heart.

The most sexy additions you mean. The Knicks improvements were not an overhaul, but rather quality bits and pieces integrated into a team with a top offense that already won 54 games.

- We added two more quality defenders in Metta and Kmart, and another NBA season under Prigioni's belt.. Not to mention another year in the evolution of Shumpert, and the fact we only had Shumpert for a very small amount of time last season. These players along with Tyson Chandler will ensure we have at very least a top 10 defense this year. We significantly improved defensively and i don't think its debatable.

- With the addition of Beno Udrih we eliminate another one of our biggest weaknesses from last year, lack of depth at the PG spot.

- We got a lot younger.

- Another year for chemistry growth, seeing as we didn't dramatically shake up the roster.

- Bargnani is basically the only addition that isn't a proven upgrade in my eyes, and could go either way. Of course he's a better player than Novak, but he's injury prone and could fold under the bright lights. Still a low risk - high reward addition though.

So elsewhere around the east, Pierce and Garnett's old ***** get traded, Indiania gets Scola, and those moves get a lot of coverage... Its the calculated improvements and the further development of an already established team that goes under the rader. As a Knicks fan i'm fine with that.

The Bulls on the other hand... They're always so damn good and now that Rose is back they will be scary.

mightybosstone
10-09-2013, 11:05 PM
I really think OKC and Houston are depending on young guys to step up. Jeremy Lamb and Reggie (Jackson? Drawing a blank) need to fill that void left by Harden/Martin in ways we have not seen from them. In Houston, D-Mo or Jones have to break out as a starting big. A trade is possible on both teams to shift the balance, but till then, they both have question marks.

I'm going to be optimistic, if not a bit of a homer, and include both teams. So my list goes...

Heat
Spurs
Rockets
Thunder
Pacers
Clippers

I'm not sold on the Nets putting so much stock in KG/PP. Not sure they move the needle enough at this stage. Also not sold on the Bulls staying healthy. It never happens.

I agree with this list. I could feasibly see the Nets, Knicks or Warriors making the conference finals, but I can't see any of those three teams in the NBA Finals. These are the six teams I could feasibly see playing in the NBA Finals this summer.

bearadonisdna
10-09-2013, 11:38 PM
So when Bulls fans were bragging and clowning and claiming they had the HEAT's number because you swept the regular season series, did it matter that all of the games were close (+3.3)? No. So why the double standard when the games actually matter a whole lot more in the playoffs and the margin in your losses was actually greater (-8.0)? Seriously just stop. The Bulls lost to the better team. It doesn't even start to make sense that a team that couldn't win more than 1 game in a series could have actually won the series. I want you to soak in the ridiculousness of your statement... A team that could only win 1 of 5 playoff games was really just as good as the other team and could have easily won the series instead. Hmmmm.... :crazy:


Haslem and Miller's injuries needed major midseason surgery which required them to miss multiple months and they came back as shells of their former self if you compare their stats before and after the injuries. Aside from a broken finger before the season started for Boozer, what did he have sprained ankles? You might want to re-do the research to recall what injuries he supposedly had at the time. Boozer broke his finger to start the season, then sprained his ankle a couple times that's it.

As far as injury prone, you must have your head in the clouds. Boozer has had that injury prone tag since his Jazz days, ask any one of their fans. He's constantly missing games or banged up. Deng's unofficial nickname was Mr. Glass, just do a Google search and tell me how many hits you get. Noah has consistently been injured his whole career, again, I don't know what you are seeing here. He played 396 out of a possible 476 games in his 6 years. His coaches have also never rested him at the end of the season to prep for playoffs before you dive into another excuse.



Same as "we basically got swept, but the games were CLOSE!!!! That counts for something doesn't it?!?!" similarly means nothing and is a classic Bulls fan response.

Well why dont u join in today and realize boozer has been healthy for last two season and ur just spitting out some outdated rhetoric.
If people really dont think the Bulls are as much contenders as other non-heat team then u dont know basketball. They have a top 5 starting 5. And the bench is lot more solid than people give credit for. The bulls starters arent fringe starters and will be playing over 30 a night. Its not like they need theis abundance of supplemental parts coming off the bench to account starters who can only play 20-25 minutes.

and, and rose is in better physical shape than ever before posting a now 42 inch vert and the speed to boot. U guys can play the ostrich in the sand all u want. Not saying they are a freight train for the title but definitely in the top-tier contenders of the non-heat teams.
Also thats not to say the heat are head and shoulders above just above because they are the champs.

beasted86
10-09-2013, 11:56 PM
Well why dont u join in today and realize boozer has been healthy for last two season and ur just spitting out some outdated rhetoric.
If people really dont think the Bulls are as much contenders as other non-heat team then u dont know basketball. They have a top 5 starting 5. And the bench is lot more solid than people give credit for. The bulls starters arent fringe starters and will be playing over 30 a night. Its not like they need theis abundance of supplemental parts coming off the bench to account starters who can only play 20-25 minutes.

and, and rose is in better physical shape than ever before posting a now 42 inch vert and the speed to boot. U guys can play the ostrich in the sand all u want. Not saying they are a freight train for the title but definitely in the top-tier contenders of the non-heat teams.
Also thats not to say the heat are head and shoulders above just above because they are the champs.

As I said, the Bulls are a good team and all, just not a contender. I have them the same as the Knicks.... if they face the HEAT or Pacers in the 2nd round, no chance at all they make the Conference Finals let alone the Finals, so how I see it is they aren't a contender.

They still have nobody to create shots except Rose, and when they face a top tier defense like the HEAT or Pacers, his efficiency will drop, and nobody else will step up. I don't see exactly what has changed.

bearadonisdna
10-10-2013, 12:30 AM
As I said, the Bulls are a good team and all, just not a contender. I have them the same as the Knicks.... if they face the HEAT or Pacers in the 2nd round, no chance at all they make the Conference Finals let alone the Finals, so how I see it is they aren't a contender.

They still have nobody to create shots except Rose, and when they face a top tier defense like the HEAT or Pacers, his efficiency will drop, and nobody else will step up. I don't see exactly what has changed.

Sorry for so edits. but im having trouble getting my head around this. So because the pacers are and heat are good defensively the bulls arent contenders?

DR_1
10-10-2013, 02:48 PM
So when Bulls fans were bragging and clowning and claiming they had the HEAT's number because you swept the regular season series, did it matter that all of the games were close (+3.3)? No. So why the double standard when the games actually matter a whole lot more in the playoffs and the margin in your losses was actually greater (-8.0)? Seriously just stop. The Bulls lost to the better team. It doesn't even start to make sense that a team that couldn't win more than 1 game in a series could have actually won the series. I want you to soak in the ridiculousness of your statement... A team that could only win 1 of 5 playoff games was really just as good as the other team and could have easily won the series instead. Hmmmm.... :crazy:


Haslem and Miller's injuries needed major midseason surgery which required them to miss multiple months and they came back as shells of their former self if you compare their stats before and after the injuries. Aside from a broken finger before the season started for Boozer, what did he have sprained ankles? You might want to re-do the research to recall what injuries he supposedly had at the time. Boozer broke his finger to start the season, then sprained his ankle a couple times that's it.

As far as injury prone, you must have your head in the clouds. Boozer has had that injury prone tag since his Jazz days, ask any one of their fans. He's constantly missing games or banged up. Deng's unofficial nickname was Mr. Glass, just do a Google search and tell me how many hits you get. Noah has consistently been injured his whole career, again, I don't know what you are seeing here. He played 396 out of a possible 476 games in his 6 years. His coaches have also never rested him at the end of the season to prep for playoffs before you dive into another excuse.



Same as "we basically got swept, but the games were CLOSE!!!! That counts for something doesn't it?!?!" similarly means nothing and is a classic Bulls fan response.

1. When did I say that because the Bulls won the regular season series that year that they were the better team? You're not making any sense. The teams were evenly matched, the games just went the Bulls' way in the regular season and the Heat's way in the playoffs. So yes the Bulls were just as good as the Heat that year.

2. Um during the playoffs which is what matteres, Boozer was playing with an extreme case of plantar fasciatis, which since you probably don't know is like having a nail shoved up your foot. Miller and Haslem were not needed at all on that Heat regular season team as long as they had the 3 Queens. So you tell me which is worse: having 2 mediocre bench players miss a bit of time during the regular season or having your #2 scorer (at the time) playing severaly hampered in the playoffs. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the Bulls got off worse with injuries. Seeing as how the games were only decided by a couple of points, a healthy Boozer most likely would have swung the series their way.

3. You must be on crack. There is no other way to put it. Boozer has only missed 3 games the past 2 years, dispelling the "injury-prone" label placed on him. I have never heard anybody call Deng Mr. Glass. He has played through countless injuries the past 3 years, and has only missed 8 games in total the past 6 seasons. There's a real world man, you may want to check it out. Noah has only missed 2 games the past 3 seasons, so again, you have no clue what you are talking about. None of these 3 players are the same guys they were at the beginning of their careers. A person with any clue at all could figure that out.

4. Again, it does mean something. If you replace Keith Bogans with Jimmy Butler, and add a healthy Boozer, the Bulls win the series from 2 years ago. Last year they had 4-5 players missing or injured every game and still kept the series close. If our injured guys, which included an MVP and 2 All-Stars, had been healthy, this is a completely different series that the Bulls would have probably won. So my point still stands. Heat fans :facepalm:

ramsizzle
10-10-2013, 03:06 PM
As I said, the Bulls are a good team and all, just not a contender. I have them the same as the Knicks.... if they face the HEAT or Pacers in the 2nd round, no chance at all they make the Conference Finals let alone the Finals, so how I see it is they aren't a contender.

They still have nobody to create shots except Rose, and when they face a top tier defense like the HEAT or Pacers, his efficiency will drop, and nobody else will step up. I don't see exactly what has changed.

The bulls play better defense than Miami or Indy...and that same 5 game series 3 freaking years ago you keep bringing up, what happened the series before when we played indy? oh yeah, a five game series. The Bulls are the favorites in this division, not Indy.

The bulls are 10-4 against the pacers with rose....

Chronz
10-10-2013, 03:20 PM
1. When did I say that because the Bulls won the regular season series that year that they were the better team? You're not making any sense. The teams were evenly matched, the games just went the Bulls' way in the regular season and the Heat's way in the playoffs. So yes the Bulls were just as good as the Heat that year.
Hes a traditionalist, doesn't believe in pt differential being all that important or that winning close games like that are often decided by luck (aka clutchness). Though he does have a point about only winning 1 game. If even all 4 losses were close, youd expect them to at least win 1. 25% success rate in clutch scenarios is low by anyone standards. Could be a result of small sample size tho, its not hard to envision those Bulls takin the Heat to 7 if played again the following year. In fact, I was loving their title chances before Rose went down.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I know of several series that have gone 6-7 games without ever being really competitive. Like the series where Boston lost every close game to the Hawks but won in blowout fashion when absolutely necessary. That series went 7 but the Hawks were never really in their league, the Cavs/Pistons/Lakers were all greater threats that required their utmost attention and never went that far. Likewise the first round series between the Spurs and the Suns a few years ago (Spurs won in 5) was a highly competitive series in which if played again, I could totally see going 7. Like say if Duncan doesn't hit that game winning 3 in the first game, the Spurs and Suns prolly face off 5-6 more times.

SanAntonioSpurs23
10-10-2013, 03:26 PM
Bulls fans maddddddd.

I'll wait to see what Rose looks like before I consider them better than Indy.

jersey89
10-10-2013, 03:27 PM
I think people are sleeping on the nets depth. They have a bunch of guys on the bench that either were starters last year or could have been. If a guy or two goes down for a month mid season I dont see there being much of a drop off in play.

DR_1
10-10-2013, 03:28 PM
Chronz, that was a good post that I agree with almost everything on. Wish I could post that clearly lol.

Chronz
10-10-2013, 03:38 PM
Chronz, that was a good post that I agree with almost everything on. Wish I could post that clearly lol.

While its useful to look at the past, there will be other questions that will arise as the season progresses that make 3 years ago irrelevant. Both teams have some questions regarding their dominance since then. The Bulls have upgraded their SG slot and Rose should be better (although at this point I would gladly embrace a return to his previous form before anything), but they've lost Asik (which puts strain on Noah) and Boozer is turning 32 and is fresh off a season where he struggled with his efficiency. Rose should help with that tho. Just saying, its been too long since we've seen prime Bulls vs Playoff comp. I do think they are legit contenders if Rose is back tho. They have less depth than they did then, all they need is their starting unit to be better, which is what people are hoping Butler does. I think he does, I really love that kid .

Chronz
10-10-2013, 03:39 PM
I think people are sleeping on the nets depth. They have a bunch of guys on the bench that either were starters last year or could have been. If a guy or two goes down for a month mid season I dont see there being much of a drop off in play.

I havent felt there was this much uncertainty at the top in years. Im sure some are bound to let down but it really is a hard year to peg IMO.

cyrax
10-10-2013, 06:30 PM
people counting the bulls out are crazy. Taj Gibson has added a LOT of muscle this offseason, and he has looked very good in the post. I know it is only preseason, but Rose's intensity on defense has been very good. I'd say he will be a top 5 defender at the PG position this season, easily. He has added muscle and hasn't lost any speed. The lineup of

Rose
Butler
Deng
Gibson
Noah

has elite defenders at 4 positions, and an above average defender at one (Rose). If Taj can keep hitting that jumper and working the post like he has so far, that lineup will be tough to beat. Having two wings that can both switch between lebron and wade is HUGE IMO. There is also nobody i would rather have guard bosh than taj gibson. People are severely underrating the bulls.

contenders:
heat
thunder
bulls
rockets

SPURSFAN1
10-10-2013, 06:52 PM
people counting the bulls out are crazy. Taj Gibson has added a LOT of muscle this offseason, and he has looked very good in the post. I know it is only preseason, but Rose's intensity on defense has been very good. I'd say he will be a top 5 defender at the PG position this season, easily. He has added muscle and hasn't lost any speed. The lineup of

Rose
Butler
Deng
Gibson
Noah

has elite defenders at 4 positions, and an above average defender at one (Rose). If Taj can keep hitting that jumper and working the post like he has so far, that lineup will be tough to beat. Having two wings that can both switch between lebron and wade is HUGE IMO. There is also nobody i would rather have guard bosh than taj gibson. People are severely underrating the bulls.

contenders:
heat
thunder
bulls
rockets

Wow. And you expect people to listen to you after you ramble on and on and then leave out the spurs? The bulls might be good during the regular season, but I haven't seen them do anything in the postseason with that lineup. Just like the Denver Nuggets of last year.

cyrax
10-10-2013, 06:55 PM
Wow. And you expect people to listen to you after you ramble on and on and then leave out the spurs? The bulls might be good during the regular season, but I haven't seen them do anything in the postseason with that lineup. Just like the Denver Nuggets of last year.

ramble on and on? are two short paragraphs too much for you? Duncan can't keep up this level of play forever. Parker is a year older too. I dont see them beating the thunder or rockets. sorry you mad. well, not really

kdspurman
10-10-2013, 06:58 PM
ramble on and on? are two short paragraphs too much for you? Duncan can't keep up this level of play forever. Parker is a year older too. I dont see them beating the thunder or rockets. sorry you mad. well, not really

He's not human, so I'll have to see that to believe it. ;)

SPURSFAN1
10-10-2013, 07:00 PM
ramble on and on? are two short paragraphs too much for you? Duncan can't keep up this level of play forever. Parker is a year older too. I dont see them beating the thunder or rockets. sorry you mad. well, not really

The Bulls would be fighting for 8th seed in the west.

chitownbulls
10-10-2013, 07:49 PM
What exactly does close games mean when you lose in 5 games? This really confuses me to be honest.

The Pacers came close to beating the HEAT, the Spurs came close to beating the HEAT. The Bulls haven't come close to beating the HEAT for the past couple years.

And by the way, Boozer is always injured and we all know that, so please don't bring that up. He has held that injury prone tag for a while now. Same goes for Noah and Deng. Doesn't make sense using it as an excuse if its become an expectation. Haslem and Miller were both injured in 10-11 anyway. To a team that had all 3 of its allstars take a discount specifically to sign those 2, yes it matters and makes a difference.

You know its funny, you keep on saying that the Bulls lost in 5 games to the Heat 3 years ago. But last year the Bulls lost in 5 too..so are you saying that, that team was as good as the one from 2010? Do you honestly believe a team that lost to the Heat in 5 but gets Deng, Rose, and Hinrich back can't go to 6 or 7?

Stop being ignorant. The Bulls with Rose are a top defensive team and a top 10 offensive team. This team is better than the 2010 team whether you believe it or not.

Our starting lineup has everything, a go to guy, 2 players that can put up 15+ regularly, 2 all stars, 3 elite defenders.

And our bench is better in every position other than center. Hinrich is an upgrade over Watson, Snell is an upgrade over Bogans/Brewer, Dunleavy is an upgrade over Korver, and Taj has gotten better. Our center position is weak but we make up for it by finally having an adequate point guard to lead them rather than Watson, and someone who can shoot, pass and play defense in Dunleavy.

chitownbulls
10-10-2013, 07:50 PM
The Bulls would be fighting for 8th seed in the west.

Thanks for the knowledgable input

DR_1
10-10-2013, 08:49 PM
The Bulls would be fighting for 8th seed in the west.

:laugh2:

beasted86
10-10-2013, 11:50 PM
3. You must be on crack. There is no other way to put it. Boozer has only missed 3 games the past 2 years, dispelling the "injury-prone" label placed on him. I have never heard anybody call Deng Mr. Glass. He has played through countless injuries the past 3 years, and has only missed 8 games in total the past 6 seasons. There's a real world man, you may want to check it out. Noah has only missed 2 games the past 3 seasons, so again, you have no clue what you are talking about. None of these 3 players are the same guys they were at the beginning of their careers. A person with any clue at all could figure that out.

Okay, so it's clear you were just trolling this whole time, or you don't have eyes. Whichever one, I've been completely wasting my time.

beasted86
10-10-2013, 11:56 PM
I actually feel sick to my stomach I was baited so easily by an obvious troll.

Lesson learned, ignore list.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 12:35 AM
Okay, so it's clear you were just trolling this whole time, or you don't have eyes. Whichever one, I've been completely wasting my time.

It seems like he is talking about playoff games missed.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 12:38 AM
The Bulls would be fighting for 8th seed in the west.

Dude i know u dont like what that guy is posting but you have to know that proposition is dubious at best.

ramsizzle
10-11-2013, 12:48 AM
Dude i know u dont like what that guy is posting but you have to know that proposition is dubious at best.

he doesn't know the bulls record vs the west with Rose.... they win at a 72% rate. which would be battling for the one or two seed in the west extrapolated. I know that its a hypothetical but hey what else can you go by.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 12:54 AM
he doesn't know the bulls record vs the west with Rose.... they win at a 72% rate. which would be battling for the one or two seed in the west extrapolated. I know that its a hypothetical but hey what else can you go by.

Yeah sometimes people say things they dont mean.

mightybosstone
10-11-2013, 01:28 AM
This. Also cannot understand how people have Houston over Golden State.

Hmm.... Well, let's look at the facts. Last season, a young core of Rockets players who had all of 2-3 days to prepare before the start of the season finished only two games behind the Warriors and beat Golden State three out of four head-to-head contests. That core of players also consisted of guys who had never started before in their careers. Add to that young core arguably the most dominant center of the last decade and consider the natural progression of those young players and that team is naturally going to be better than a season ago.

Will Golden State also make strides forward? No doubt. But that Warriors team has been together for far longer than these Rockets have, and I'd be far more concerned about the injury proneness of that team with guys like Curry and Bogut playing key roles. And, yes, they added Iguodala, but they lost Jarrett Jack, and you can't downplay what kind of impact that could potentially have on a young squad.

Barring some sort of freak injury with Houston, I'd easily put money on my Rockets finishing with a better record than the Warriors this season.

FlashBolt
10-11-2013, 04:24 AM
Getting better is relative to your competition. Knicks looks like a fourth or fifth seed. Which is not an improvement by any stretch.

They got better and they were a game away from the ECF last year despite JR being injured and shooting 26% in the Pacer series, and despite Chandler battling the neck injury. Despite getting ZERO from the bench too, which won't happen this year with guys like Beno, MWP, Kmart, JR...etc...

Everyone said we were a 6-8th seed last year too...

But really, who cares so much about seeding? After MIA, NY, IND, BK & CHI will all be bunched up together, probably all within a few wins of each other... there won't be a huge difference between the #2 or #5 seed unless injuries play a big role.

... A game away? 4-2 is not a game away.

Guppyfighter
10-11-2013, 07:28 AM
Hmm.... Well, let's look at the facts. Last season, a young core of Rockets players who had all of 2-3 days to prepare before the start of the season finished only two games behind the Warriors and beat Golden State three out of four head-to-head contests. That core of players also consisted of guys who had never started before in their careers. Add to that young core arguably the most dominant center of the last decade and consider the natural progression of those young players and that team is naturally going to be better than a season ago.

Will Golden State also make strides forward? No doubt. But that Warriors team has been together for far longer than these Rockets have, and I'd be far more concerned about the injury proneness of that team with guys like Curry and Bogut playing key roles. And, yes, they added Iguodala, but they lost Jarrett Jack, and you can't downplay what kind of impact that could potentially have on a young squad.

Barring some sort of freak injury with Houston, I'd easily put money on my Rockets finishing with a better record than the Warriors this season.

I agree as a Warrior fan. Rockets were better than us last year (differential) and they have greatly improved. Should be better this year.

SanAntonioSpurs23
10-11-2013, 08:58 AM
ramble on and on? are two short paragraphs too much for you? Duncan can't keep up this level of play forever. Parker is a year older too. I dont see them beating the thunder or rockets. sorry you mad. well, not really

Seriously, even with a healthy Westbrook what's is so intimidating about the Thunder?

Unless Dwight Howard is reborn into a new player this season, I don't think anyone is worried about the Rockets.

Rockice_8
10-11-2013, 12:16 PM
Again the Bulls depth isn't that great and Thibs burns his players out. Bulls will probably put together a great season be top 3 seed and have 3 guys with nagging injuries come playoff time and be up in arms next season that they could have won if they were healthy.

Until Thibs can learn to keep his guys fresh I can't believe the Bulls are going to run through a tougher East when the games get more intense and the benches shorten.

Despite the age of teams like MIA, BK and SA etc (the vet squads). I have much more faith in them being healthy because they have deep benches and their coaches don't burn out their guys.

CHI is certainly a team nobody wants to see come playoff time but as trun contenders I just think Thibs burning them out is gonna hold them back during the tough riggers of a playoff run. It's the fresh and healthy teams that make the runs come playoff time and CHI just never seems to be either.

Rockice_8
10-11-2013, 12:23 PM
Hmm.... Well, let's look at the facts. Last season, a young core of Rockets players who had all of 2-3 days to prepare before the start of the season finished only two games behind the Warriors and beat Golden State three out of four head-to-head contests. That core of players also consisted of guys who had never started before in their careers. Add to that young core arguably the most dominant center of the last decade and consider the natural progression of those young players and that team is naturally going to be better than a season ago.

Will Golden State also make strides forward? No doubt. But that Warriors team has been together for far longer than these Rockets have, and I'd be far more concerned about the injury proneness of that team with guys like Curry and Bogut playing key roles. And, yes, they added Iguodala, but they lost Jarrett Jack, and you can't downplay what kind of impact that could potentially have on a young squad.

Barring some sort of freak injury with Houston, I'd easily put money on my Rockets finishing with a better record than the Warriors this season.


I agree with this HOU is more of a true contender than GS. GS has injury prone players (curry and Bogut) and as good as Curry has played he can't carry that team by himself. HOU has concerns of their own (chemistry and the whole Asik/Dwight front court pairing but a healthy Dwight and an improving Harden are a scary one two punch inside and outside. GS doesn't have that star power it takes to win it all. I like GS alot, they are going to be a fun team to watch but better than HOU, SAS and LAC probably not. I don't have LAC as true contenders either and I still got them slightly above GS.

Got to stick with the star power and after Curry GS is lacking that second star. IGGY and Lee both are very good but fall short in that category.

SouthSideRookie
10-11-2013, 01:05 PM
Knicks were 4 minutes away from taking IND to a game 7 at MSG... despite pretty much everything going wrong that series.

And I gotta say I LOVED our chances in a game 7 at MSG.

People act like IND is on a whole nother level and like they blew NY away...

It's crazy how one or two plays can change everyones perception of things. Just like Ray Allen hitting that big 3 to save MIA's season. Or the LBJ layup saved MIA against IND. That's how close these series are sometimes... yet the losing team gets put on a whole different lower tier? don't get it at all.

Why on earth do Knick fans keep saying this. The only reason why the series went 6 was due to the Pacers starting point guard missing game5, hell as terrible as Indy was in game 5 they still had a chance to pull it out in the 4th.

The red carpet was rolled out for NY last season for a trip to the ECF at the very least and they still couldn't get there. NY better bring back an improved roster because they weren't all that great and didn't come close to winning the conference, much less a title.


he doesn't know the bulls record vs the west with Rose.... they win at a 72% rate. which would be battling for the one or two seed in the west extrapolated. I know that its a hypothetical but hey what else can you go by.

LOL So you're telling us that the Bulls winning % wouldn't suffer if they played much tougher competition a lot more often.


Seriously, even with a healthy Westbrook what's is so intimidating about the Thunder?

Unless Dwight Howard is reborn into a new player this season, I don't think anyone is worried about the Rockets.

Because that healthy OKC team creamed the aging Spurs two post-seasons ago.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 01:28 PM
Again the Bulls depth isn't that great and Thibs burns his players out. Bulls will probably put together a great season be top 3 seed and have 3 guys with nagging injuries come playoff time and be up in arms next season that they could have won if they were healthy.

Until Thibs can learn to keep his guys fresh I can't believe the Bulls are going to run through a tougher East when the games get more intense and the benches shorten.

Despite the age of teams like MIA, BK and SA etc (the vet squads). I have much more faith in them being healthy because they have deep benches and their coaches don't burn out their guys.

CHI is certainly a team nobody wants to see come playoff time but as trun contenders I just think Thibs burning them out is gonna hold them back during the tough riggers of a playoff run. It's the fresh and healthy teams that make the runs come playoff time and CHI just never seems to be either.

See thats the problem . U site the bUlls having a lack of depth but then mention how the benches will be shortened come the playoffs basically negating that perceived weakness.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 01:46 PM
Why on earth do Knick fans keep saying this. The only reason why the series went 6 was due to the Pacers starting point guard missing game5, hell as terrible as Indy was in game 5 they still had a chance to pull it out in the 4th.

The red carpet was rolled out for NY last season for a trip to the ECF at the very least and they still couldn't get there. NY better bring back an improved roster because they weren't all that great and didn't come close to winning the conference, much less a title.



LOL So you're telling us that the Bulls winning % wouldn't suffer if they played much tougher competition a lot more often.



Because that healthy OKC team creamed the aging Spurs two post-seasons ago.


well that other guys is trying to say the bulls would be an 8th seed. And this guy is providing some actual stats that shows the other guy wouldnt be right. U yourself cant dont have any tangible evidence to dispute that.

nycericanguy
10-11-2013, 01:52 PM
Why on earth do Knick fans keep saying this. The only reason why the series went 6 was due to the Pacers starting point guard missing game5, hell as terrible as Indy was in game 5 they still had a chance to pull it out in the 4th.

The red carpet was rolled out for NY last season for a trip to the ECF at the very least and they still couldn't get there. NY better bring back an improved roster because they weren't all that great and didn't come close to winning the conference, much less a title.

And NY had a chance to win game 1...

point is, it was a close series... sure Hill missed a game, but JR had to have freaking surgery after that series... and Tyson was clearly limited.

I'm just glad we won't have to rely on a bench of 39 year old Camby, 41 year old Kidd, 40 year old Kurt, and a 39 year old Sheed. Those guys, along with Novak, ended up contributing ZERO, ZILCH in that Pacer series, and it was still damn close.

I like our chances next year against IND with MWP, Kmart, a healthy JR, Beno, Prigs, Hardaway, and maybe even Amare off the bench.

MrfadeawayJB
10-11-2013, 02:01 PM
Here's a decent article on this very subject-

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9790038/ranking-nba-tiers-power-2013-14-season


this is actually a very good assessment and great article. This is more realistic than what all the posters are saying. Everyone should read this

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 02:02 PM
delete

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 02:10 PM
this is actually a very good assessment and great article. This is more realistic than what all the posters are saying. Everyone should read this


Yeah some of these guys just arent being realistic.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 02:28 PM
My only issue with the Bulls is they lack the depth to keep their guys fresh come playoff time. They are always banged up when the playoffs start from Thibs playing his guys 40+ min. I don't expect that to change this year either.

lol. The only guy thibs was playing heavy minutes before last year was Deng. Last year was an abberation with their best player out and he went and played noah and luol heavy *** minutes.
He has already made it public that he will be not be playing noah those heavy minutes and will be monitioring the minutes more carefully this year.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 02:33 PM
And all these spurs fans who cant even comprehend the bulls as a contender , guess what guys the bulls have the best player between the two teams and two allstar players in the frontcourt.

What do the Spurs have that the bulls dont that propel u above them?


I know some spurs fans have replied angrily in this thread but matching dumb post for dumb post (which seems like an epidemic around here) is counterproductive and u dont have to stoop to that level.

kdspurman
10-11-2013, 02:57 PM
And all these spurs fans who cant even comprehend the bulls as a contender , guess what guys the bulls have the best player between the two teams and two allstar players in the frontcourt.

What do the Spurs have that the bulls dont that propel u above them?


I know some spurs fans have replied angrily in this thread but matching dumb post for dumb post (which seems like an epidemic around here) is counterproductive and u dont have to stoop to that level.

If healthy, I see no reason why the Bulls wouldn't be contenders... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

In terms of what the Spurs have, I would say probably a little better in terms of depth and Pop does a better job of managing his guys minutes.

But, still think Chicago is a contender for sure. I think most folks think they are. I personally think they take the #1 seed this year in the East.

bearadonisdna
10-11-2013, 04:41 PM
If healthy, I see no reason why the Bulls wouldn't be contenders... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

In terms of what the Spurs have, I would say probably a little better in terms of depth and Pop does a better job of managing his guys minutes.

But, still think Chicago is a contender for sure. I think most folks think they are. I personally think they take the #1 seed this year in the East.

+1 kdspurman +1

DR_1
10-12-2013, 03:55 PM
I actually feel sick to my stomach I was baited so easily by an obvious troll.

Lesson learned, ignore list.

:laugh: You, of all people, calling me a troll :laugh:

Everyone knows you're an idiot, just accept it and move on

DR_1
10-12-2013, 03:57 PM
Hmm.... Well, let's look at the facts. Last season, a young core of Rockets players who had all of 2-3 days to prepare before the start of the season finished only two games behind the Warriors and beat Golden State three out of four head-to-head contests. That core of players also consisted of guys who had never started before in their careers. Add to that young core arguably the most dominant center of the last decade and consider the natural progression of those young players and that team is naturally going to be better than a season ago.

Will Golden State also make strides forward? No doubt. But that Warriors team has been together for far longer than these Rockets have, and I'd be far more concerned about the injury proneness of that team with guys like Curry and Bogut playing key roles. And, yes, they added Iguodala, but they lost Jarrett Jack, and you can't downplay what kind of impact that could potentially have on a young squad.

Barring some sort of freak injury with Houston, I'd easily put money on my Rockets finishing with a better record than the Warriors this season.

Personally I think it's a coin flip, although I lead towards the Warriors. I can see the Rockets being better, but I don't think they will. Team chemistry is the big concern in my eyes.

east fb knicks
10-12-2013, 04:01 PM
heat and spurs everybody else has a punchers chance

east fb knicks
10-12-2013, 04:04 PM
If healthy, I see no reason why the Bulls wouldn't be contenders... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

In terms of what the Spurs have, I would say probably a little better in terms of depth and Pop does a better job of managing his guys minutes.

But, still think Chicago is a contender for sure. I think most folks think they are. I personally think they take the #1 seed this year in the East.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:facepalm:

ramsizzle
10-12-2013, 04:24 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:facepalm:

I will gladly paypal bet you.... without a shadow of a doubt we will have a better record.

Guppyfighter
10-12-2013, 04:29 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:facepalm:

Not that ridiculous. Won't mean they are the best East team either. Bulls never concede a game and Lebron only played 32 minutes a game last year. Heat lose more than they would because there is a lot of rest.

bearadonisdna
10-13-2013, 08:34 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:facepalm:

Whats so funny about that? They have done it two out of three years. The one year it didnt happen Ros eidnt play a minute. So there actually a lot saying that they could do it, its not a probability but its a possibility. Meaning its not impossible.

kdspurman
10-13-2013, 09:44 PM
Not that ridiculous. Won't mean they are the best East team either. Bulls never concede a game and Lebron only played 32 minutes a game last year. Heat lose more than they would because there is a lot of rest.

Pretty much, not sure what he thought was funny... you look at the bulls records the 2 previous years prior to Rose's injury and it's certainly possible. And like you said, they don't concede games or take games off like Miami does. Miami is coming off 3 straight finals appearances, so it's possible some of their guys get random nights off.

Team*Chicago
10-14-2013, 10:31 PM
Let's define this as teams that wouldn't surprise you at all if they won the title.

I say 5.

Miami
San Antonio
Indiana
Chicago
Oklahoma City

Honorable mention to the LA teams, Brooklyn, Memphis, Golden State, New York, Houston, and Denver. All very good teams, but not championship caliber teams, in my opinion.

I agree with that top 5, those teams are real championship contenders with no overrated hype since they were the only teams to make it to their conference finals and win their divisions the last 3 years.

mania03
10-14-2013, 11:22 PM
Heat
Spurs
Indiana
Nets
Clippers
Houston
Bulls(?) Need to see how healthy they are come playoff time. We all know they're a good regular season team. Still think the teams above look better on paper.

Team*Chicago
10-14-2013, 11:29 PM
So when Bulls fans were bragging and clowning and claiming they had the HEAT's number because you swept the regular season series, did it matter that all of the games were close (+3.3)? No. So why the double standard when the games actually matter a whole lot more in the playoffs and the margin in your losses was actually greater (-8.0)? Seriously just stop. The Bulls lost to the better team. It doesn't even start to make sense that a team that couldn't win more than 1 game in a series could have actually won the series. I want you to soak in the ridiculousness of your statement... A team that could only win 1 of 5 playoff games was really just as good as the other team and could have easily won the series instead. Hmmmm.... :crazy:


Haslem and Miller's injuries needed major midseason surgery which required them to miss multiple months and they came back as shells of their former self if you compare their stats before and after the injuries. Aside from a broken finger before the season started for Boozer, what did he have sprained ankles? You might want to re-do the research to recall what injuries he supposedly had at the time. Boozer broke his finger to start the season, then sprained his ankle a couple times that's it.

As far as injury prone, you must have your head in the clouds. Boozer has had that injury prone tag since his Jazz days, ask any one of their fans. He's constantly missing games or banged up. Deng's unofficial nickname was Mr. Glass, just do a Google search and tell me how many hits you get. Noah has consistently been injured his whole career, again, I don't know what you are seeing here. He played 396 out of a possible 476 games in his 6 years. His coaches have also never rested him at the end of the season to prep for playoffs before you dive into another excuse.



Same as "we basically got swept, but the games were CLOSE!!!! That counts for something doesn't it?!?!" similarly means nothing and is a classic Bulls fan response.

:D Awwww yes that's when CRYami cryied about getting their ***** kicked, Rose became the youngest MVP ever and Tom became coach of the year as a rookie coach.



The Bulls would be fighting for 8th seed in the west.

You're sad that the Spurs aren't undefeated in the Finals like the Bulls anymore. It'll be ok when you go to Wal-Greens and pick up some medicine for your sore ***.

east fb knicks
10-15-2013, 12:10 AM
the bulls suck rose has only played in the preseason and already has a sore knee :facepalm:

for all you guys know he is the 2nd coming of b roy lmao

not to mention we already had a 100 page thread of how the bulls are overrated and of course the same trolls are still crowning them a top 2 seed :facepalm:

espeacially when their bench is :puke:

smiddy012
10-15-2013, 01:37 AM
East: HEAT, Pacers
West: Spurs, Clippers, Grizzlies

Bulls are a weaker team all around than they were 3 years ago, so I really don't understand why people think they are a contender. Rose will not be as good as he was his MVP season. Boozer will not be a 17 PPG player like he was 3 years ago. Deng will not be a 17 PPG player like he was 3 years ago. They don't have the defensive front court off the bench when they had Asik from 3 years ago. Dunleavy is fresh off a career high year, but the reality is he's not as good a 3PT shooter as Korver from 3 years ago. What they do have better is Hinrich is a better defender than Watson ever was, and Butler has similar defense, but better offense than Brewer or Bogans. Noah has also made some improvements. But those don't override the above, especially the factor of Rose not being as good as his MVP season.

The bolded makes me wonder if you have a clue, but you do offer some insights that lead me to believe that you're more informed than your initial statement might suggest.

Firstly, PPG matters very little compared to efficiency. Secondly, the Bulls starting line-up has more offensive firepower than any Bull's team since MJ's - this is simply a fact, so you'd expect PPG totals to go down as their usage does. And the difference (causing the aforementioned heightened firepower) is Jimmy Butler. Not only does he have star potential (elite defense/rebounding/athleticism with the ability to knock down the 3 consistently), but he fills a hole that's been present since the very first day Rose stepped foot into the league (a play-making SG/long range shooter who doesn't suck at defense to play next to).

Having had watched the Bulls consistently for a while now, the only core player who isn't at his best (and probably done growing) is Deng. Noah, Booz, Butler, Taj are all better now than they ever have been (in a Bull's uni).

The best and least biased reason one can have for why the Bulls won't be contenders is... HEALTH. They haven't had it in a while, and they've arguably never fully had it with their current core (and they may never). But to me, anyone who believes that a healthy Bulls aren't championship contenders, hasn't followed them closely enough to realize why they've struggled come post-season as much as they have.

TrueFan420
10-15-2013, 02:53 AM
Heat
Spurs
Clippers
Warriors
Pacers
Bulls

Thunder have fallen out of it for me. Sure they will win 55+ games perennially but come playoff time the predictable offensive of relying on two stars just dies. They also have a mediocre coach who makes a lot of simple mistakes. They have lost a lot of key pieces in the last few years so unless all of the role players like Jackson, Lamb, PJ and Adams really explode and fill in well for previous players... I see another step back. Factor in that Westbrook is out the first 6 weeks of the season and I could easily see OKC not being a HCA team with all the deadly western conference teams.

I'm not including the Nets because although the talent is there, they have an EXTREMELY old and fragile team. I will be shocked if even 75 percent of their core is healthy come playoff time. I also think they won't mesh quick enough because of so many players that contrast in playstyle and personality. I think skillset wise it's a great balanced mix but mentally it's going to be tough. I also don't believe a rookie head coach can control that much talent, with such a vocal locker room. He will likely lose the locker room halfway through the season.

I'm shocked very few of you are including the Warriors. This team was a few breaks from the freaking WCF last year in just their first year in the playoffs as a group. They looked like THE best team in the playoffs a lot of the time and went out and got even better this summer by quite a bit. If they can stay healthy (big if) they absolutely are true title contenders, as much as it pains me to say it :p.
Thanks the props to the warriors. I think is possible but we need to stay healthy any Thompson and Barnes need to take he next step for us to compete but as constructed I think were one f he most balanced teams in the nba and can beat you from just abut anywhere on the court.

Chill_Will_24
10-15-2013, 02:54 AM
The bolded makes me wonder if you have a clue, but you do offer some insights that lead me to believe that you're more informed than your initial statement might suggest.

Firstly, PPG matters very little compared to efficiency. Secondly, the Bulls starting line-up has more offensive firepower than any Bull's team since MJ's - this is simply a fact, so you'd expect PPG totals to go down as their usage does. And the difference (causing the aforementioned heightened firepower) is Jimmy Butler. Not only does he have star potential (elite defense/rebounding/athleticism with the ability to knock down the 3 consistently), but he fills a hole that's been present since the very first day Rose stepped foot into the league (a play-making SG/long range shooter who doesn't suck at defense to play next to).

Having had watched the Bulls consistently for a while now, the only core player who isn't at his best (and probably done growing) is Deng. Noah, Booz, Butler, Taj are all better now than they ever have been (in a Bull's uni).

The best and least biased reason one can have for why the Bulls won't be contenders is... HEALTH. They haven't had it in a while, and they've arguably never fully had it with their current core (and they may never). But to me, anyone who believes that a healthy Bulls aren't championship contenders, hasn't followed them closely enough to realize why they've struggled come post-season as much as they have.

There is no such thing.

and btw the Bulls bench is pretty shallow.

TrueFan420
10-15-2013, 02:57 AM
Pretty much, not sure what he thought was funny... you look at the bulls records the 2 previous years prior to Rose's injury and it's certainly possible. And like you said, they don't concede games or take games off like Miami does. Miami is coming off 3 straight finals appearances, so it's possible some of their guys get random nights off.
Agreed the real question mark is if rose comes back and is the same if so then it's definitely possible

lol, please
10-15-2013, 04:48 AM
I'm sorry but Rockets shouldn't be on this list. If you're a homer, you probably know this as well.

Exactly. The Dubs maybe, but definitely not the Rockets.

monty77
10-15-2013, 05:40 AM
There is no doubt, Heat is going to win another championship next year. It's also plain that Western Conference has more level than Eastern Conference, but there are less true contenders because I think the four better teams in the NBA are playing in the East: Miami, Chicago, Indiana and Brooklyn.

Of course, San Antonio, Oklahoma and Clippers could be part of this ranking too, but I thing that the first one will get worse because of its aged players and the other ones lack defense. If we look at this teams, there are only two teams able to "stop" Lebron James: Indiana with Paul George and Chicago with Jimmy Butler. Honorable mention to Spurs' Leonard.

In particular, I like Clippers' team. I think they together with Houston are going to step forward this season thanks to Rivers and Howard respectively. Maybe next year they'll be a true contenders, but this year Spurs and Oklahoma are going to lead in the West.

If Rose and Granger are healthy this year, the true NBA final is going to take place in the East, because both of them are the only teams that can face Heat. The other teams in the East, Knicks and Brooklyn are going to fill the other five places in the playoffs spots, and could spring a surprise if they have a high position in the clasification.

Brooklyn has veteran players who can play at brilliant level in playoffs, but I think they won't be placed among the four first positions during regular season. Clippers' Paul and Griffin are in their prime but they need one year to get use to Rivers' system. Bulls and Pacers have no second superstar. Spurs are a old team, which principal players Duncan and Ginobili are over 35. Memphis lack outside shot. Oklahoma, Golden State and Houston lack defense and New York only have a player able to overpass 15 ppg (I don't trust in JR Smith this year). Consequently, Miami is going to win another Championship.

archdevil84
10-15-2013, 06:39 AM
pacers are the only team that can beat a healthy heat squad in the east. no team from the west can beat miami anymore now that theyre so experienced and hopefully healthy in the postseason

FlashBolt
10-15-2013, 09:18 AM
Pacers aren't going to win. Hansborough is gone and he was basically their Joakim Noah in terms of energy. I'm not sure anyone else bullied Miami worse than Hansborough. With Granger coming back, one has to wonder if he still thinks he's the alpha. Brooklyn has the best chance to beat Miami in the East. I don't think Bulls are even close. Did someone say Butler has star potential? He'll be lucky to crack top 30. Bulls have a very good team but they didn't get better. Butler's production is a result of heavy minutes - minutes he may not get when Deng and Rose are back. NYK should be dropped from everyones list. They aren't contenders. Best out of West is going to be Spurs again for me. I see Leonard taking a huge step forward. Duncan won't have as great of a year but still big numbers. To be brutally honest, I don't think OKC will be making any strides. They'll have a great record, but I don't see any improvements. They lost Kevin and now rely on Jackson for a bigger role? Don't know what they are doing.

Chill_Will_24
10-15-2013, 11:55 AM
Pacers aren't going to win. Hansborough is gone and he was basically their Joakim Noah in terms of energy. I'm not sure anyone else bullied Miami worse than Hansborough. With Granger coming back, one has to wonder if he still thinks he's the alpha. Brooklyn has the best chance to beat Miami in the East. I don't think Bulls are even close. Did someone say Butler has star potential? He'll be lucky to crack top 30. Bulls have a very good team but they didn't get better. Butler's production is a result of heavy minutes - minutes he may not get when Deng and Rose are back. NYK should be dropped from everyones list. They aren't contenders. Best out of West is going to be Spurs again for me. I see Leonard taking a huge step forward. Duncan won't have as great of a year but still big numbers. To be brutally honest, I don't think OKC will be making any strides. They'll have a great record, but I don't see any improvements. They lost Kevin and now rely on Jackson for a bigger role? Don't know what they are doing.

Really? Out of all their good players, Hansborough is the player that made the difference in your eyes?