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View Full Version : NBA Re-Draft Playoffs: Harlem (4) vs Tijuana (5)



Sadds The Gr8
10-05-2013, 05:28 PM
Every summer, PSD holds a game where GM's re-draft players to see who creates the best team. This year, users from the site had to utilize their skills via draft, trades. At the end of the game, GMs voted on how they believed the regular season of this game would shake up. These are the playoffs of PSD's 2013 NBA Re-Draft

Please take the time to consider each line up, the match-up itself, and vote on which team you believe would win in a seven game series.

Harlem Depth Chart:

Depth Chart (MPG):
PG: Derrick Rose(36) - O.J. Mayo(12) - Eric Maynor
SG: O.J. Mayo(20) - Ray Allen(28) - Gerald Green
SF: Tayshaun Prince(27) - Luc Ricard Mbah A Moute(17) - Ray Allen(4)
PF: Greg Monroe(18) - Kenyon Martin(27) - Rashard Lewis(3)
C: Andrew Bynum(32) - Greg Monroe(16) - Greg Oden

Tijuana Depth Chart:

PG: Mike Conley - Pablo Prigioni - Norris Cole
SG: Jamal Crawford - Willie Green
SF: Danny Granger - Chris Copeland - Stephen Jackson
PF: Serge Ibaka - Brandan Wright
C: Brook Lopez - Meyers Leonard


HARLEM HAS HOMECOURT ADVANTAGE


Harlem Writeup:


First off, congrats to Tijuana for a quality run in this redraft. Their GM is relatively new to these games and he made a solid team. But, Tijuana will not be advancing past the first round in these playoffs. Harlem outmatches them almost everywhere, and will win this playoff series.

Offensive Strategy: Obviously, this offense will be led by a former MVP and a top 10 player in the league, Derrick Rose. Hate on Rose all you want, but he is one of the most dynamic players in this game today. His playmaking and slashing ability is unmatched in the entire NBA, and he simply will not be stopped by an albeit solid defender in Mike Conley. No one other than LeBron slowed down Rose in his last full season, and it will not be starting in this series. Now, Tijuana might point to Serge Ibaka being able to stop Rose in the paint. This would be quite humorous in my opinion because Ibaka will have his hands full with a great power forward in Greg Monroe, our number 2 option on offense. If Ibaka tries to play help defense, easy buckets will be coming for Monroe left and right. And then we also have former All-Star Andrew Bynum. Now, I know some of you will degrade him because of his injuries, but even a 75% Bynum is a force on both ends of the court. Luckily, he will be covered by an average defender Brook Lopez. Bynum will get double digit touches on the block and will be able to go to work against Lopez, not to mention plenty of put-back buckets due to Tijuana's weak rebounding frontcourt. Now, I know what you are thinking. Where is the floor spacing on this team? No need to worry, we have plenty of it on our wings. Ray Allen, OJ Mayo, and Tayshaun Prince are all great shooters from the outside, and will open up the paint for our bigs and Rose to dominate. Mayo and Allen also have another affect on this offense due to their ability of being quality ball handlers, something Rose has never had on his side before. Surrounding Rose with other ball handlers will take pressure off of him and allow him to be even more effective on a few less touches. The bottom line on offense is that we have way too much talent to stop, no matter how you slice it. Two 16 and 10 bigs and an MVP? Tijuana cannot stop that.

Defensive Strategy: This is where Tijuana will truly struggle. They can praise Brook Lopez all they want, but he has a defensive force matched up against him in Andrew Bynum. Even when playing hurt, Bynum has been dominant on the defensive side of the ball, and certainly will slow down Lopez on his offensive touches. So who is the number one option? Who is the guy that wins games for Tijuana? We all know that you need a #1 option to win in the playoffs. The Heat had LeBron, the Spurs had Parker, the Pacers had George. Who does Tijuana have? No one. Danny Granger has declined sharply, he simply cannot be trusted as a #1 option anymore, especially with a good defender on him with Tayshaun Prince. Serge Ibaka is strictly a jump shooter on offense, he isn't a reliable offensive player. Jamal Crawford is a career 6th man for a reason, his offense becomes erratic a lot when he dominates the ball and he at times even becomes a bit of a chucker. And Mike Conley is good, but he isn't someone who will win you a playoff series, especially considering that he will have to guard an MVP on the other end. Tijuana quite frankly will struggle to put up points on our defense, which is something that they will need with our high-flying offense.

Bench: This is a huge advantage for Harlem. We have 3 quality players on our bench, creating a dynamic 8 man rotation. We have the greatest 3-point shooter of all time with Ray Allen, one of the best bench bigs in the league with Kenyon Martin, and a very good defensive wing with Luc Ricard Mbah A Moute. By my count, Tijuana only has one quality player on their bench that should be playing solid playoff minutes and that is Brandan Wright. So what happens when Pablo Prigioni comes in and has to deal with Derrick Rose? What about Willie Green against one of our SG's? Meyers Leonard covering Bynum or Monroe? You have to be kidding me. Tijuana's depth is a huge issue that will seriously limit their effectiveness in this series.

Bottom Line: Talent wins you basketball games folks, moreso in today's NBA than ever before. Harlem simply is much more talented than Tijuana on both sides of the court, and off of the bench. We have one of the biggest stars in the NBA as well as the best supporting cast that he has ever had. Tijuana has a solid center, an often-injured forward, and a decent point guard that they are going to rely on to win this series for them. But the answer is clear. Harlem's talent wins us this series, with Rose leaving us with multiple impact plays that will be remembered for a long time.

Tijuana Writeup:


Quick Points:

Harlem will point out how "Granger was injured" and etc, but they are relying heavily on two players with significant injuries, Rose and Bynum, to carry the load ; One hasn't been healthy for 2 years and the other missed all of last season due to an ACL tear. We at Tijuana would like to point out, that we do not rely on Granger to carry our team, he's just another option out on the floor and he'll thrive as a more efficient 15 PPG scorer instead of trying to carry the team like he was required to do with IND in the past.

Also, Harlem's floor spacing is horrendous, which doesn't bode well for Rose, Harlem's primary weapon; because with Monroe and Bynum clogging up the paint, you are limiting Rose to be more of a shooter which is a style of play he doesn't excel in (Career .534 TS% and .486 eFG%). Tijuana's defensive game-plan is simple but effective, shut-down the paint and force Harlem to become a shooting team, ultimately they don't have efficient shooters outside of Ray Allen and he alone can not create the necessary space for Harlem's offense to be a productive one in this series.

On the other hand, Tijuana's lineup possesses versatile players all on the floor at the same time; so no matter what Harlem's "strategy" might be, Tijuana has the pieces to make adjustments and still be able to have a productive and efficient offense. We won't depend on "one guy" to dominate a series although we certainly do have players capable of doing so. Brook can be a primary offensive option in the low post or run P&R, Conley will run the show and either penetrate to create looks for himself or to set up his teammates, Ibaka is known for being an excellent defender but he doesn't get enough credit when it comes to his offensive game. He doesn't need the ball in his hands to contribute as he moves well without the ball and can space the floor and knock down shots off ball movement or double teams. Plus, I still haven't mentioned Crawford and Granger who we all know can score yet are 4th/5th options on this team.

Head to head:

PG Mike Conley vs Derrick Rose
Mike Conley can put pressure on the ball and is an excellent defender at the PG position with the speed and IQ to keep up with a "healthy" Rose, if he ever is able to get back to that level which at the moment, nobody knows if he'll be able to. Derrick Rose won't be able to carry this team past the first round. Once the playoffs arrive, defenses tighten up and collapse on Rose and he regresses as an offensive player. He becomes more of a volume scorer, an inefficient one, as evidenced by his career playoff stats: 22.2 FGA to achieve 25.1 PPG on 43% FG%, 26% from 3P%, .503 TS% and .449 eFG%. These numbers will hold true in this series as well because Harlem's floor spacing will not allow Rose the necessary space to attack the paint and there are no options to "kick out" the ball to as it will be fairly easy to neutralize Harlem's only pure shooter, Ray Allen, when he's on the court.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../rosede01.html

SG Jamal Crawford vs O.J. Mayo & Ray Allen
Mayo is not on a team that will allow him to maximize his strengths. He needs the ball in his hands to impact the game and being paired with a ball dominant PG who will relinquish him to being a "catch and shoot" guy will not end well. Meanwhile, Ray Allen is 37 years old and just posted the lowest PER of his career since his rookie season in 1996. He's still a pure shooter, but he won't get the same open looks he got with Miami last year where defenders had to really focus in on Lebron/Wade/Bosh, that won't be the case with Harlem. Yes, we are using Crawford as a starter on Tijuana, and before you say "but he's a 6th man", he has played starters minutes throughout his entire career so he's definitely capable of starting, especially on a team as loaded as this.

SF Danny Granger vs Tayshaun Prince
Tayshaun Prince just posted the lowest PER of his career and continues to spiral downward. He's not the athletic wing he used to be. Granger will excel as an efficient 4th/5th option for Tijuana, not having to carry a team like he did with IND.

PF Serge Ibaka vs Greg Monroe
Monroe's defense leaves a lot to be desired and Ibaka can certainly shut him down as he's a DPOY quality big man.

C Brook Lopez vs Andrew Bynum
Brook has completely dominated Bynum when they face off by playing 37.8 minutes per game and averaging the following #'s:

24 PPG on 51% FG%
9.8 REB
9 FT attempts per game and shooting 83% FT%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bynuman01&p2=lopezbr01

Brook gets Bynum into foul trouble with ease as Bynum averages 5 fouls per game when he's matched up against Brook, even fouling out in under 10 minutes of playing time in one of the games. What does this mean? It means that Harlem will be left counting on Martin to play major minutes at the 4/5 which is not something you want at this point in his career. While Brook has continued to blossom into one of the top C's in the league by getting better each year, Bynum hasn't played in over 2 years. Will he even reach 90% of his past production? Nobody knows, not even his GM.

KnicksorBust
10-05-2013, 05:35 PM
In one year from now we could be looking at Harlem as an unstoppable force. For now, those two huge question marks are too much for me to vote against Tijuana. I love the way they match-up with Harlem as well. Conley is one of the best defensive PGs in the league to slow down Harlem's best player and Brook is one of the few C's in the league capable of outplaying even a healthy Bynum.

Tijuana advances.

Sadds The Gr8
10-05-2013, 05:38 PM
I don't trust Bynum to be healthy but I still think Rose is good enough to lead Harlem past Tijuana. Harlem in 7.

AI
10-05-2013, 05:38 PM
This is where Tijuana will truly struggle. They can praise Brook Lopez all they want, but he has a defensive force matched up against him in Andrew Bynum. Even when playing hurt, Bynum has been dominant on the defensive side of the ball, and certainly will slow down Lopez on his offensive touches.

How is Bynum going to slow down Brook when he never has?

In Tijuana's writeup...


Brook has completely dominated Bynum when they face off by playing 37.8 minutes per game and averaging the following #'s:

24 PPG on 51% FG%
9.8 REB
9 FT attempts per game and shooting 83% FT%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=bynuman01

Brook gets Bynum into foul trouble with ease as Bynum averages 5 fouls per game when he's matched up against Brook, even fouling out in under 10 minutes of playing time in one of the games. What does this mean? It means that Harlem will be left counting on Martin to play major minutes at the 4/5 which is not something you want at this point in his career. While Brook has continued to blossom into one of the top C's in the league by getting better each year, Bynum hasn't played in over 2 years. Will he even reach 90% of his past production? Nobody knows, not even his GM.

Also, at this point, too many things have to go write for Harlem to advance against Tijuana's top heavy talent.

How is Derrick Rose going to carry a team that needs him to play perfect basketball in order to advance? How can you expect him to even dominate after coming back from ACL injury, he has yet to even play. Even at his current peak which was when he won the MVP award in 2010-11, Rose was an extremely inefficient scorer in the playoffs as he took over 21 shots to score 24 PPG and shot 40% FG%, 25% 3P%, .499 TS%, .430 eFG% during that postseason. His career playoff stats aren't much better either... 19.1 FG attempts to score 21.7 PPG on 42% FG% and 26% 3P% (.503 TS% and .449 eFG%); Yet he's somehow expected to dominate a series where one of the top defensive PG's is matched up against him? That's ridiculous to expect when he hasn't even shown that he's back to the level where he was 2 years ago.

Sadds The Gr8
10-05-2013, 05:43 PM
could a mod sticky this and set the poll expiration for 48 hours please?

xxplayerxx23
10-05-2013, 06:50 PM
I don't understand if we assume health how people use health questions. Rose has better offensive weapons here the he does in Chicago

xxplayerxx23
10-05-2013, 06:59 PM
Derrick rosť is a top 5-6 player when he's healthy. He is unstoppable when healthy, in the playoffs he was the offense. Bynum when healthy like we assume in the game is the most offensively gifted big men in the game and then you have Greg Monroe who is an up an coming stud. Then you have mayo who proved he can be a pretty big time player last year, with one of the clutchest players in the game off the bench in Ray Allen. When you see the bulls problems in the playoffs that yes it was no number 2 option not enough inside scoring,no secondary ball handlers and not enough outside shooting. We have addressed that all with inside scoring from Bynum and Monroe. Secondary ball handling from mayo and Allen not to mention prince is still a solid ball player . Good defender can hit the outside shot then kmart and moute bringing defense for the bench. I question does our opponent have a true number 1 option? Lopez is real good but do you trust him to carry the number 1 option load?

AI
10-05-2013, 07:31 PM
Derrick rosť is a top 5-6 player when he's healthy. He is unstoppable when healthy, in the playoffs he was the offense. Bynum when healthy like we assume in the game is the most offensively gifted big men in the game and then you have Greg Monroe who is an up an coming stud. Then you have mayo who proved he can be a pretty big time player last year, with one of the clutchest players in the game off the bench in Ray Allen. When you see the bulls problems in the playoffs that yes it was no number 2 option not enough inside scoring,no secondary ball handlers and not enough outside shooting. We have addressed that all with inside scoring from Bynum and Monroe. Secondary ball handling from mayo and Allen not to mention prince is still a solid ball player . Good defender can hit the outside shot then kmart and moute bringing defense for the bench. I question does our opponent have a true number 1 option? Lopez is real good but do you trust him to carry the number 1 option load?

Brook Lopez when matched up against Bynum completely owns him by scoring 25 PPG on 51% FG%, going to the free throw line over 9 times a game and putting Bynum in foul trouble from the get go. That's a more efficient #1 than what Rose has averaged during his playoffs career.

Not to mention all the following players who are more than capable of chipping in:

2012-2013

Mike Conley - 14.6 PPG, 44% FG%, 36% 3P%,
Serge Ibaka - 13.2 PPG, 57% FG% (.612 TS%, .586 eFG%)
Jamal Crawford - 16.5 PPG, 44% FG%, 38% 3P%

And that's not even including Danny Granger who's a career 18.1 PPG scorer on 44% FG% and 38% 3P% OR Chris Copeland who when he got the minutes was an incredibly efficient scorer last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/copelch01/splits/2013/

Case being, there's more than enough depth to Tijuana's lineup to score on a subpar Harlem defense. Bynum will be in foul trouble all series by guarding Brook, Monroe currently can't even guard his shadow and Tayshaun has regressed to the point of putting up the lowest PER of his career. Meanwhile, Tijuana has an elite defender to throw at Rose in Conley who ranked 14th in RAPM. Tijuana is a matchup made in hell for Harlem and they should win this series quite easily.

xxplayerxx23
10-05-2013, 07:52 PM
Ibaka has contuined to suck every year in the playoffs. Crawford isn't anything special. You really trust brook Lopez to take control of the offense. How is Lopez going to stop Bynum? Derrick rosť is going to have less pressure on him to score with all the weapons around him, he won't be as tired in the 4th like he was in the playofs last time. He is easily a better number 1 then Lopez or granger, I just don't see enough for you to take down our team.

unleashthebeast
10-05-2013, 07:59 PM
Honestly AI you can talk all that you want about Brook Lopez, but is he seriously a guy you can depend on to carry your offense throughout a playoff series? Absolutely not, it would be idiotic to think so. He has never shown anything to show that he can carry a team through a playoff series. He had a much better supporting cast around him this past year, even with another first option, and they couldn't even win a playoff series.

Rose is a proven playoff superstar, with a better supporting cast than ever before. Brook Lopez is not taking him down in a playoff series, not a chance

AI
10-05-2013, 08:30 PM
I've provided all the #'s to support my argument yet you both continue to throw "opinions" and "hypothetical statements" back as your rebuttal.

I provided facts/#'s as to why Brook is a #1 in this series with Bynum guarding him. I provided numbers as to why Rose alone won't win you this series and how inefficient of a scorer he becomes when the playoffs come along and you continue to say that his supporting cast is better. What? It's absolutely not better.

Give me Deng over Tayshaun, Noah over "no knees" Bynum (next Greg Oden) and Boozer, who has become criminally underrated, over Monroe. All those guys I just mentioned are top defenders at their position, your guys are simply not. Tayshaun may have the reputation of a solid defender but he's nowhere near the player he used to be.

AI
10-05-2013, 08:33 PM
Also, how is Brook going to guard Bynum?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bynuman01&p2=lopezbr01

Bynum's #'s when matched up against Lopez are downright laughable.

xxplayerxx23
10-05-2013, 08:45 PM
4 games :laugh: your numbers Are bull ****. It's hilarious Lopez had one monster game in which Bynum played 22 minutes lol 3 games in 08 09 are the numbers your basing anything off oh god

AI
10-05-2013, 08:50 PM
4 games :laugh: your numbers Are bull ****. It's hilarious Lopez had one monster game in which Bynum played 22 minutes lol 3 games in 08 09 are the numbers your basing anything off oh god

Is this not a 7 game series in which 4 games is all it takes to win the series? Also, it's not Brook's fault that Bynum can't stay healthy enough to actually match up with him more.

And I'm basing what I said on facts instead of "falsely hoping" Bynum can stop Lopez which as posted above, he simply can't. Continue to post "smilies and lols", that's just further proof that you have nothing to say and that I've won the argument. Waits for false hypohetical response with no statistical data to back it up.

DR_1
10-05-2013, 08:59 PM
I like both teams but this is a really bad matchup for Harlem

The_Jamal
10-05-2013, 10:05 PM
H-H match-ups are realyl ****ing stupid to use. However, I don't trust Harlem as far as I can throw them.

Tijuana

xxplayerxx23
10-05-2013, 10:38 PM
H-H match-ups are realyl ****ing stupid to use. However, I don't trust Harlem as far as I can throw them.

Tijuana

I promise you can throw us far

unleashthebeast
10-06-2013, 01:36 AM
Also, how is Brook going to guard Bynum?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bynuman01&p2=lopezbr01

Bynum's #'s when matched up against Lopez are downright laughable.

The stats that you are using between Bynum and Lopez is what is laughable, with the lack of sample size and the MPG discrepency. Lopez consistently played 15 minutes per game more than Bynum in the 4 games that they have ever played against eachother, with sometimes even playing 25 minutes more than Bynum. So he schooled Bynum? Or was Bynum on the bench when Lopez was effective? Let's focus on what we DO know. When Bynum is in the game he is a great defender and will slow down Lopez, and the stats you are showing me are not relative to that discussion whatsoever.


So you want stats huh? How about 3-4? This is Brook Lopez' record in the playoffs. Do you know who he played against? The Rose-less Chicago Bulls. Brook Lopez, along with another all star, couldn't even beat an injury riddled Bulls team. So how in the hell can you come to the conclusion that Lopez can lead a team to a playoff victory over an undoubtedly better team than last year's Bulls? Lopez has hardly any playoff experience and depending on him as the player to win you this series simply isn't plausible.

unleashthebeast
10-06-2013, 01:47 AM
Also, Harlem's floor spacing is horrendous, which doesn't bode well for Rose, Harlem's primary weapon; because with Monroe and Bynum clogging up the paint, you are limiting Rose to be more of a shooter which is a style of play he doesn't excel in (Career .534 TS% and .486 eFG%). Tijuana's defensive game-plan is simple but effective, shut-down the paint and force Harlem to become a shooting team, ultimately they don't have efficient shooters outside of Ray Allen and he alone can not create the necessary space for Harlem's offense to be a productive one in this series.

So we have no spacing huh? Ray Allen is our only shooter? Really?

O.J. Mayo 2012-2013 3PT FG: 40.7%
Ray Allen 2012-2013 3PT FG: 41.9%
Tayshaun Prince 2012-2013 3PT FG: 40.4%

Those are THREE PLAYERS that shoot over 40% from downtown. And at least one of those players will be on the court at all times with Rose, with 2 of them being on the court with Rose the majority of the time. I don't see how you can possibly single out Allen as our only good shooter when we have both Mayo and Prince starting for our team and shooting over 40% behind the 3 point line.

Our spacing is fine. These shooters really help to open up the court for Rose and our bigs, as well as the penetration of Rose forcing the defense to collapse, allowing the kickout to these deadly shooters.

unleashthebeast
10-06-2013, 02:03 AM
People having problems with my team because of Bynum are really not looking at the big picture with my team. Bynum isn't the #2 guy on my team that forms the dynamic duo with Rose to take me to the promised land (though he clearly has the talent to do so). Bynum is only one small piece in the total puzzle of my team.

I have 4 players in Derrick Rose, Greg Monroe, OJ Mayo, and Ray Allen that are very good or great offensive players. Each of those players are easily capable of scoring 15 ppg or more obviously, and are huge parts of my offense. Bynum's impact on offense will obviously be felt, but he doesn't have to have the role that he had in his last year in LA. He will not get a ton of touches and a lot of his points will be off of offensive putbacks and easy passes for dunks.

On defense he plays a big part but defense has always been something that has come easy to Bynum. All but one of his games against Lopez are from at least 4 seasons ago and are not a clear indicator of how evenly matched this center matchup will be today. Bynum is now a very good defender and will certainly slow down Lopez, even if AI doesn't want to admit it.

Bynum is a great player and I'm so glad that I am able to have him on my team, but he will not make or break this playoff series for me. I have 4 other players than him that will get more offensive looks, and he will not have to be the star for us to beat Tijuana. The stars will be Derrick Rose and Greg Monroe, a dynamic pick and roll duo that will do a ton of damage on Tijuana's defense

DR_1
10-06-2013, 12:07 PM
I promise you can throw us far

:laugh2:

Sportfan
10-06-2013, 12:12 PM
People having problems with my team because of Bynum are really not looking at the big picture with my team. Bynum isn't the #2 guy on my team that forms the dynamic duo with Rose to take me to the promised land (though he clearly has the talent to do so). Bynum is only one small piece in the total puzzle of my team.

I have 4 players in Derrick Rose, Greg Monroe, OJ Mayo, and Ray Allen that are very good or great offensive players. Each of those players are easily capable of scoring 15 ppg or more obviously, and are huge parts of my offense. Bynum's impact on offense will obviously be felt, but he doesn't have to have the role that he had in his last year in LA. He will not get a ton of touches and a lot of his points will be off of offensive putbacks and easy passes for dunks.

On defense he plays a big part but defense has always been something that has come easy to Bynum. All but one of his games against Lopez are from at least 4 seasons ago and are not a clear indicator of how evenly matched this center matchup will be today. Bynum is now a very good defender and will certainly slow down Lopez, even if AI doesn't want to admit it.

Bynum is a great player and I'm so glad that I am able to have him on my team, but he will not make or break this playoff series for me. I have 4 other players than him that will get more offensive looks, and he will not have to be the star for us to beat Tijuana. The stars will be Derrick Rose and Greg Monroe, a dynamic pick and roll duo that will do a ton of damage on Tijuana's defense

But what do Mayo and Monroe contribute when they aren't scoring?

KnicksorBust
10-06-2013, 12:24 PM
Great rebuttals by Harlem. Looks like we got a game here.

AI
10-06-2013, 01:36 PM
So you want stats huh? How about 3-4? This is Brook Lopez' record in the playoffs. Do you know who he played against? The Rose-less Chicago Bulls. Brook Lopez, along with another all star, couldn't even beat an injury riddled Bulls team. So how in the hell can you come to the conclusion that Lopez can lead a team to a playoff victory over an undoubtedly better team than last year's Bulls? Lopez has hardly any playoff experience and depending on him as the player to win you this series simply isn't plausible.

Sure, the Nets lost to the Bulls but it wasn't because of Brook, Deron had an awful series. However, Brook did not, and he was matched up against Noah who is a superior defender to Bynum.

In that playoff series these are Brooks stats: 22.3 PPG, 47% FG%, 7.4 TRB, 3.0 BLK (25.2 PER)

xxplayerxx23
10-06-2013, 02:40 PM
Sure, the Nets lost to the Bulls but it wasn't because of Brook, Deron had an awful series. However, Brook did not, and he was matched up against Noah who is a superior defender to Bynum.

In that playoff series these are Brooks stats: 22.3 PPG, 47% FG%, 7.4 TRB, 3.0 BLK (25.2 PER)

Lopez wasn't the main scoring option. Lopez isn't stoping a healthy Andrew Bynum.

AI
10-06-2013, 03:19 PM
Lopez wasn't the main scoring option. Lopez isn't stoping a healthy Andrew Bynum.

Brook Lopez had a 28.4 USG% in that playoff series against Chicago. That's a much higher number than that of Deron Williams' (23.7 USG%). So, yeah, he was the main scoring option and was an extremely efficient/good one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezbr01.html#playoffs_per_game::none

Sadds The Gr8
10-06-2013, 05:07 PM
bump

xxplayerxx23
10-06-2013, 05:32 PM
Brook Lopez had a 28.4 USG% in that playoff series against Chicago. That's a much higher number than that of Deron Williams' (23.7 USG%). So, yeah, he was the main scoring option and was an extremely efficient/good one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezbr01.html#playoffs_per_game::none

To a team that would of been lucky to be an 8 seed with the team tht was on the court. So what did you prove? That brook Lopez can be the main scoring option on a team that loses in the first round to a team led by Nate Robinson. Sorry but Lopez isn't carrying the load espcally against a Healthy Andrew Bynum. Think about how much effort he would have to waste guarding the best offensive big man in the game? Then Bynum makes it tough on him offensively yeah good luck with that

AI
10-06-2013, 06:10 PM
To a team that would of been lucky to be an 8 seed with the team tht was on the court. So what did you prove? That brook Lopez can be the main scoring option on a team that loses in the first round to a team led by Nate Robinson. Sorry but Lopez isn't carrying the load espcally against a Healthy Andrew Bynum. Think about how much effort he would have to waste guarding the best offensive big man in the game? Then Bynum makes it tough on him offensively yeah good luck with that

What a ridiculous copout, Tijuana is not the Nets and the comparison certainly doesn't apply. Here we go...

You don't have the Bulls' defense nor is Brook surrounded by the same offensively limited players in Gerald Wallace or Reggie Evans, who both got major minutes in the frontcourt for the Nets in that series. If Brook could put up those type of numbers I provided above against an elite Bulls defense with Gerald/Evans as his frontcourt partners, imagine what he'll do with Granger/Ibaka against a subpar defensive team like yours.

Also, the Nets were awful defensively which is why Nate Robinson torched them, Tijuana isn't and has premium defenders at the positions required to throw at your key offensive guys (Conley on Rose; Ibaka on Monroe). You continue to say a "healthy" Bynum, when was the last time he was healthy? He's always injured and it's significant injuries as well, knee injuries for a C of his stature/weight are no joke.

xxplayerxx23
10-06-2013, 06:16 PM
What a ridiculous copout, Tijuana is not the Nets and the comparison certainly doesn't apply. Here we go...

You don't have the Bulls' defense nor is Brook surrounded by the same offensively limited players in Gerald Wallace or Reggie Evans, who both got major minutes in the frontcourt for the Nets in that series. If Brook could put up those type of numbers I provided above against an elite Bulls defense with Gerald/Evans as his frontcourt partners, imagine what he'll do with Granger/Ibaka against a subpar defensive team like yours.

Also, the Nets were awful defensively which is why Nate Robinson torched them, Tijuana isn't and has premium defenders at the positions required to throw at your key offensive guys (Conley on Rose; Ibaka on Monroe). You continue to say a "healthy" Bynum, when was the last time he was healthy? He's always injured and it's significant injuries as well, knee injuries for a C of his stature/weight are no joke.


Huh? He had deron Williams joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace had some nice games. If you wanna compare
Nate Robinson
Marco how every you spell his last name
Carlos boozer
Noah on one foot
To our team that's laughable. He has just as much offensive help on your team then he did with the nets. So one year off and we pretend like Bynum can't play. Everybody knows when he's healthy (like we assume here) Andrew Bynum is that number 2 C in the game and the best offensive C in the game.

AI
10-06-2013, 06:40 PM
Huh? He had deron Williams joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace had some nice games. If you wanna compare
Nate Robinson
Marco how every you spell his last name
Carlos boozer
Noah on one foot
To our team that's laughable. He has just as much offensive help on your team then he did with the nets. So one year off and we pretend like Bynum can't play. Everybody knows when he's healthy (like we assume here) Andrew Bynum is that number 2 C in the game and the best offensive C in the game.

Joe Johnson took 14 FGA to score 14.9 PPG while shooting 41% FG% - 25% 3P% - .486 TS% - .466 eFG% and put up an 11.7 PER in that series, that's awful. Gerald Wallace is an awful offensive player and has become an overrated defender. The guy shot under 40% from the field last year and 28% from 3 and scored a mere 7 PPG in over 30 minutes of playing time.

You've resulted to compare my team to the Nets which is a failed attempt at trying to diminish Brook as a #1 option. You said he couldn't be a #1 option, to which I replied...


Sure, the Nets lost to the Bulls but it wasn't because of Brook, Deron had an awful series. However, Brook did not, and he was matched up against Noah who is a superior defender to Bynum.

In that playoff series these are Brooks stats: 22.3 PPG, 47% FG%, 7.4 TRB, 3.0 BLK (25.2 PER)

Later you said that Brook wasn't the #1 scoring option during that series, to which I replied...


Brook Lopez had a 28.4 USG% in that playoff series against Chicago. That's a much higher number than that of Deron Williams' (23.7 USG%). So, yeah, he was the main scoring option and was an extremely efficient/good one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezbr01.html#playoffs_per_game::none

You failed to win your argument about Brook not being a #1 option during the playoffs, which he was, and now you've resulted to trying to compared both our teams, Tijuana to the Nets and Harlem to the Bulls, when both teams are COMPLETELY different.

unleashthebeast
10-06-2013, 06:54 PM
Yeah you are right the teams are different. Brook Lopez was surrounded by vastly superior talent in Brooklyn, whereas Rose has never been surrounded by the offensive playmakers he has here in Harlem.

Let's look at who is around Lopez though. You have a defensive player in Ibaka who cannot be relied on whatsoever offensively. You have a guy in Danny Granger that you have no idea how he will come back, but he will be a shell of his former self. You have a 6th man in Jamal Crawford who obviously is a 6th man for a reason. His offensive flow hurts the rest of the team's offensive flow. And you have a solid PG in Mike Conley who has never really been known as an elite offensive player.

I have said it time and time again and you have decided to ignore it. You are NOT good enough offensively to win this series. You simply are not talented enough man. Lopez is a underwhelming #1 option and he is surrounded by an underwhelming supporting cast.

Not to mention your bench. You have one decent player on your bench, one. You either run a 6-man rotation and are tired as hell by the 3rd quarter, or we take advantage of your pathetic bench players when they are on the court.

AI
10-06-2013, 07:21 PM
Yeah you are right the teams are different. Brook Lopez was surrounded by vastly superior talent in Brooklyn, whereas Rose has never been surrounded by the offensive playmakers he has here in Harlem.

Deron, JJ, Wallace, Evans is not a better supporting cast than Conley, Crawford, Ibaka and Granger.


Let's look at who is around Lopez though. You have a defensive player in Ibaka who cannot be relied on whatsoever offensively.

Yet he posted the following numbers in 2013:

13.2 PPG | 57% FG% | 35% 3P% | 2.8 ORB | .612 TS% | .586 eFG%

Ibaka literally is a perfect fit next to Brook.


You have a guy in Danny Granger that you have no idea how he will come back, but he will be a shell of his former self.

This is hilarious, considering that Granger is a 4th/5th option on my team but the same argument could be used for your two key players in Rose and Bynum. So, Granger's going to be a shell of his former self but Rose and Bynum are going to dominate this series? Laughable.


You have a 6th man in Jamal Crawford who obviously is a 6th man for a reason. His offensive flow hurts the rest of the team's offensive flow.

Few people can score and pick apart defenses like Crawford does. He plays starters minutes for a reason, it's because he's an excellent offensive player. Who wouldn't take 16.5 PPG, 44% FG% and 38% 3P% from their starting SG?


And you have a solid PG in Mike Conley who has never really been known as an elite offensive player.

Conley is an excellent PG, he will run my team to perfection. He doesn't need to be "elite" offensively, what he provides on both ends of the court makes him one of the most valuable PG's in the league, which is why he ranked only behind CP3 (13.9), Westbrook (11.6), Curry (11.2) and Deron (10.9) in WS's among PG's last season with 9.9 WS.


I have said it time and time again and you have decided to ignore it. You are NOT good enough offensively to win this series. You simply are not talented enough man. Lopez is a underwhelming #1 option and he is surrounded by an underwhelming supporting cast.

You can continue to say it, doesn't mean it's true. It's simply not the case.


Not to mention your bench. You have one decent player on your bench, one. You either run a 6-man rotation and are tired as hell by the 3rd quarter, or we take advantage of your pathetic bench players when they are on the court.

Ridiculous. My bench is filled with players that compliment my team. Prigioni actually started for the Knicks in the playoffs and is another PG, much like Conley, that can run an offense. Copeland proved last year that he's an excellent scorer off the bench and can play both SF/PF. Brandan Wright, who is solid, will get minutes backing up both the PF/C. I also have Norris Cole, Willie Green and others who are serviceable bench players.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-06-2013, 07:29 PM
Harlem Shake.

Shammyguy3
10-06-2013, 10:33 PM
I had Tijuana ahead of Harlem in my rankings, but I think Harlem is a serious matchup issue for Tijuana. I'm currently leaning towards Harlem though, because Conley/Granger/Lopez will have difficulty scoring in bulk on good efficiency versus Rose/Prince-Moute/Bynum/Martin.

The bench that Harlem has is also better, but i still have to think about this long and hard considering that Granger/Bynum will be the deciding difference in this series for me.

unleashthebeast
10-06-2013, 11:45 PM
Bump. This matchup is ultra close and needs more votes! I will respond to a few of the posts tomorrow

xxplayerxx23
10-07-2013, 12:05 PM
Bump. This is unacceptable. Harlem is the better team. Keep voting

Sadds The Gr8
10-07-2013, 01:12 PM
The Bynum factor is showing itself in this series. That's why I avoid broken players like the plague in these games.

Shammyguy3
10-07-2013, 02:04 PM
In the end I had to go with Harlem, they just matchup really well versus Tijuana, and taking a 75% Rose, Bynum, and Granger, I'd have to give a slight edge to Harlem. I think Tijuana would struggle to score in some instances, and I don't see that being an issue for Harlem: Harlem wins due to HCA. That's how close this is to me.

xxplayerxx23
10-07-2013, 05:03 PM
When we look back at this mid season it's going to be laughable.

AI
10-07-2013, 05:57 PM
48 hours are up. Congrats to UTB and Player for making this a close matchup, they built a great team. I'm looking forward to advancing and facing Cincinnati, hopefully can upset them as well. Thanks to all who voted, we appreciate it.

Matter.
10-07-2013, 05:58 PM
rigged

DR_1
10-07-2013, 06:53 PM
rigged

:laugh2:

Sadds The Gr8
10-07-2013, 11:09 PM
closed. Tijuana advances. forgot to put the poll expiration up.