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Clippersfan86
09-24-2013, 10:57 PM
http://nba.si.com/2013/09/24/kevin-durant-dwyane-wade-james-harden-top-10-players-2014-sports-illustrated-point-forward/

:laugh: awesome. Really looking forward to the first Heat vs Thunder game more now.

tredigs
09-24-2013, 11:02 PM
Awesome, thank God. This league needs a little banter among the elite.

Clippersfan86
09-24-2013, 11:03 PM
Awesome, thank God. This league needs a little banter among the elite.

Agreed. Less buddy buddy. Good for KD to man up about this and not hide from it.

Sadds The Gr8
09-24-2013, 11:10 PM
Awesome, thank God. This league needs a little banter among the elite.

+1

GunFactor187
09-24-2013, 11:12 PM
I'd take Harden over Wade too.

JasonJohnHorn
09-24-2013, 11:13 PM
Love it!

I'd put Harden ahead of Wade, but there is a case for Harden, Wade or Kobe at the top for SG.

That said, Wade is drawing on what he did in 2010 to argue for his ranking in 2013/14 by saying to show Durant "again" (referencing the 2010 finals match-up).

But yeah... wade is awesome, Hardne is awesome. It's just too bad we couldn't see a Durant/Harden LBJ/Wade match-up... that would be AWESOME!

4milesperday
09-24-2013, 11:16 PM
i'll take Wade in a finals game 7 over both Harden and Durant!

kdspurman
09-24-2013, 11:20 PM
KD got into with Bosh, now a lil something with Wade. Maybe next year something it'll be Lebron.

Pretty awesome though, we'll see what happens when they play. Would be cool to see KD guard Wade on a few plays

Meaze_Gibson
09-24-2013, 11:20 PM
lol wade just came off of locking up harden two years ago. Harden had a good season, bad playoff run and was scared of pressure in the clutch moments. He aint up to Wade just yet but I do love this competition.

John Walls Era
09-24-2013, 11:38 PM
KD's comeback sucked. Pretty sure Wade showed him in 12.

MrfadeawayJB
09-24-2013, 11:42 PM
Too bad they won't guard each other. I agree harden could replace wade. Easy for wade to talk trash because when it's crunch time LeBron will do all the dirty work guarding durant

beasted86
09-24-2013, 11:46 PM
Love it!

I'd put Harden ahead of Wade, but there is a case for Harden, Wade or Kobe at the top for SG.

That said, Wade is drawing on what he did in 2010 to argue for his ranking in 2013/14 by saying to show Durant "again" (referencing the 2010 finals match-up).

But yeah... wade is awesome, Hardne is awesome. It's just too bad we couldn't see a Durant/Harden LBJ/Wade match-up... that would be AWESOME!

It was the 2012 Finals... that's kind of way off from 2010.

allSUAVE
09-25-2013, 12:04 AM
The HYPE!!!!

pacman16
09-25-2013, 12:09 AM
hardens been doing it for 2 years now , wades been doing it for how many?
i can understand wades need to defend himself... harden is a beast though

Byronicle
09-25-2013, 12:15 AM
Durant misses Harden

FlashBolt
09-25-2013, 12:31 AM
I like the animosity from Durant, but he needs to get a ring before he mentions Wade again. Durant showed lots of flaws, even doubted my expectations of him. He had a chance to carry them past the Grizz and show what he could do without WB, but didn't captivate. With that being said, I disagree. Harden is producing because of the opportunity he has. Wade without James would be a top 5 player. We're not seeing that because James has pretty much taken over the duties. Makes for a great rivalry, just hope these two can see each other again.

jp611
09-25-2013, 12:32 AM
Awesome, thank God. This league needs a little banter among the elite.

Yep.

I love it

Baller1
09-25-2013, 12:32 AM
Well Harden is better than Wade at this point. Nice to see some animosity though.

jp611
09-25-2013, 12:32 AM
The HYPE!!!!

People still like Lil Wayne?

jerellh528
09-25-2013, 12:34 AM
Wow who the hell ranked wade above Kobe and harden? Lol

JLynn943
09-25-2013, 01:08 AM
Wow who the hell ranked wade above Kobe and harden? Lol

I would :shrug: Defense actually means something to me though.

Htownballa1622
09-25-2013, 01:10 AM
Durant should just team up with Harden and D12 down here in a few ;)

(I wish)

Ebbs
09-25-2013, 01:54 AM
Awesome, thank God. This league needs a little banter among the elite.

100% I'd rather have PG heading into this season than Wade too.

vandoc
09-25-2013, 02:00 AM
I have been watching basketball for almost 30 years, and in my opinion D Wade is one of the best SG I have ever watched. In his prime, this kid was a force, slashing to the basket and making amazing shots. Yes, he had Shaq for that first championship, but he really came into his own in the 2006 Finals. He was a candidate for league MVP for 2 years for sure (his team's record simply wasn't good enough) and he is one of the good guys in all of sports....and I'm a Lakers' fan.
At the end of the day though, I don't know why people rank athletes. If you enjoy watching them play, that should be enough.

Stunner
09-25-2013, 03:13 AM
Wade is great and all but he really is just playing off athletic ability . Crazy he could be so much deadlier if he actually worked on his jumpshot like Bron did .

FlashBolt
09-25-2013, 03:25 AM
Wade is great and all but he really is just playing off athletic ability . Crazy he could be so much deadlier if he actually worked on his jumpshot like Bron did .

Well, that is another topic. The disrespect that Durant showed to Wade is uncalled for. Wade is a top 10, there's no denying that. I can't name 10 players i'll take over Wade. He's often overshadowed by James, which causes us to believe that he's not as impactful. It's totally wrong, Bosh, Wade, and James all hit career high fg% because they meshed well. Wade is just a complimentary piece to James, just like Durant would be as well if he came to Miami and played alongside with James. Wade is a proven 3x NBA champion who deserves nothing but respect. At this point of his career and all the doubters he's had to face, it's quite astonishing that Durant would even respond back.

bearadonisdna
09-25-2013, 05:05 AM
Well, that is another topic. The disrespect that Durant showed to Wade is uncalled for. Wade is a top 10, there's no denying that. I can't name 10 players i'll take over Wade. He's often overshadowed by James, which causes us to believe that he's not as impactful. It's totally wrong, Bosh, Wade, and James all hit career high fg% because they meshed well. Wade is just a complimentary piece to James, just like Durant would be as well if he came to Miami and played alongside with James. Wade is a proven 3x NBA champion who deserves nothing but respect. At this point of his career and all the doubters he's had to face, it's quite astonishing that Durant would even respond back.

The disrespect u give to rose in the other thread is uncalled for. Wade actually calls out ur boy and ur all kissing his butt.

Heediot
09-25-2013, 05:57 AM
That list is a joke after the top 3. Parker is not a top 5 guy. This is the guy who Durant should of complained about being higher then Harden. Parker is borderline top 10, I don't see him as a franchise guy that can carry a team.

dnl123
09-25-2013, 06:48 AM
Wade got **** on via twitter...just like he will in real life next season.

Follow me on twitter and facebook @ daniel falkenbach.

As you know I'm quite an entertaining fellow.

Look forward to seeing you if you're interested in alternative news sources.


Dude, stop. Nobody's gonna follow you on twitter, especially not by pimping yourself out.

MTar786
09-25-2013, 07:21 AM
im more shocked seeing parker at 5 and duncan anywhere in the top 10 at all. also think kobe at 9 is horrible. i think kobe is top 5 still.

Slug3
09-25-2013, 09:38 AM
Why is any superstar getting pissed off about one persons ranking of players? Everyone's is going to be different and even a little biased.

D-Leethal
09-25-2013, 09:48 AM
KD owned him there.

I don't think KD has any respect for the way Miami formed their big 3. Sure, he had the luxury of having young studs by his side since day 1, but those are still youngins that need to grow into stars and do it together, not three prime superstars joining forces. KD has been outspoken about that since the day it happened.

Chronz
09-25-2013, 10:07 AM
KD owned him there.

I don't think KD has any respect for the way Miami formed their big 3. Sure, he had the luxury of having young studs by his side since day 1, but those are still youngins that need to grow into stars and do it together, not three prime superstars joining forces. KD has been outspoken about that since the day it happened.

KD didn't own anyone.

I dont think you know KD but feel free to post what KD has said over the years. Hes had sufficient talent to win, hell in the Finals he had the 2nd best sidekick on his team. Its just that his boy was locked up by the very man hes degrading.

Heatcheck
09-25-2013, 10:12 AM
KD didn't own anyone.

I dont think you know KD but feel free to post what KD has said over the years. Hes had sufficient talent to win, hell in the Finals he had the 2nd best sidekick on his team. Its just that his boy was locked up by the very man hes degrading.


tell him about the PER last year Chronz, tell him.

Heatcheck
09-25-2013, 10:12 AM
.

Heatcheck
09-25-2013, 10:14 AM
Im pretty sure these guys know each other, theyre probably just talking ****.

Wades still better than harden though.

kdspurman
09-25-2013, 10:20 AM
im more shocked seeing parker at 5 and duncan anywhere in the top 10 at all. also think kobe at 9 is horrible. i think kobe is top 5 still.

You think Kobe is top 5 but have a problem with TD being anywhere near the top 10 based off what he did last year?

ManRam
09-25-2013, 10:23 AM
Kinda surprised players care about this stupid ****

Clippersfan86
09-25-2013, 10:27 AM
Kinda surprised players care about this stupid ****

Not from these guys. Both have said they aim for certain stats every game, won't shoot buzzer beaters etc, so not surprising at all. They obviously care about the petty things in basketball.

SlimKid
09-25-2013, 10:30 AM
KD didn't disrespect anyone. What he said was completely subjective, as this thread proves.

D-Leethal
09-25-2013, 10:32 AM
KD didn't own anyone.

I dont think you know KD but feel free to post what KD has said over the years. Hes had sufficient talent to win, hell in the Finals he had the 2nd best sidekick on his team. Its just that his boy was locked up by the very man hes degrading.

I thought "show me don't tweet me" was pretty solid, short and sweet "I don't care enough to give you the time of day" response, while Wade's was a whiney childish response "Im gonna cry and make a big scene because lil Kevvy doesn't think Im good anymore". Wade didn't show anyone he was better than JHarden last year which was KD's point. Show it this time, don't cry on twitter.

I have to know KD to state what he publicly said? I'm not going to search around for a quote from 3+ years ago but when they formed he echoed Magic Johnson's sentiments about "I would prefer to go out an beat my best opponents, not join them". He said it publicly directly after the decision and the hoopla that followed.

I'm not begging you to take my word for it, feel free not to, but it happened.

Clippersfan86
09-25-2013, 10:33 AM
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/heatzone/2013/09/24/james-harden-over-dwyane-wade-kevin-durant-thinks-so-video/

Here's the video with Durant's comments lol. Hahaha... look at him shake his head after Wade is listed LMAO. No respect for Wade at all.

L@ker4Life
09-25-2013, 10:33 AM
All of you guys talking about Wade "showing" KD are giving credit to the wrong person. LBJ was/is the head of the proverbial snake in Miami. Wade didn't do ****....Wade is a very good player, but he is not and was not the great player he was in 2012 much less today. The injuries have taken a toll on him and he is a shell of his former self. What he did against the Mavs in the finals was nothing short of amazing, but this isn't the same player right now. This is like Mario Chalmers telling KD that he would "show him....again". The Heat were the better team nuff said. I would be reluctant to spout off to the 2nd best player in the game if I was Wade.

With that said, I agree this type of hype/rivalry is much needed in this buddy buddy NBA. I miss the days of **** talking and hard fouls. They have made this a soft sport and it's super dissapointing. They've put shackles on the best athletes in the world and expect the fans to oohhh and aaahhhh about it.

C_Mund
09-25-2013, 10:39 AM
I have been watching basketball for almost 30 years, and in my opinion D Wade is one of the best SG I have ever watched. In his prime, this kid was a force, slashing to the basket and making amazing shots. Yes, he had Shaq for that first championship, but he really came into his own in the 2006 Finals. He was a candidate for league MVP for 2 years for sure (his team's record simply wasn't good enough) and he is one of the good guys in all of sports....and I'm a Lakers' fan.
At the end of the day though, I don't know why people rank athletes. If you enjoy watching them play, that should be enough.

I'd rank this as the 34th post out of 45 on this thread so far.

Just kidding! I actually agree with you on all points. I remember being blown away when Wade notched that triple-double for Marquette in the tourney and he's been nuts since. He's driven me crazy with some flopping and complaining to the refs in his time, but that alone doesn't differentiate him from 3/4 of the players in the NBA, it's just easier to see when they're scoring and winning.

Clippersfan86
09-25-2013, 10:44 AM
As for the actual topic... KD has seemingly forgot that Harden is the worst defensive SG in the league. Give me a 21/5/5/1.5/1 efficient Wade with very good D over a 26/5/6/2/1 Harden with zero defense. When you adjust for minutes Wade looks better, Harden declines (due to minute differential obviously). Wade is still a bit better, although no doubt Harden is next in line for the SG throne after Kobe and Wade. If he was even a decent defender he would easily be the best SG but his defense is a huge hole.

Harden was drafted in 09 and is still THAT terrible of a defender.

WadeCounty
09-25-2013, 10:49 AM
Wade: 21.2 ppg 52% fg 5.0 asts 5.1 rebs 1.9 stls 0.8 blks 34 mins pg - 24 PER


Harden: 25.9 ppg 43% fg 5.8 asts 4.9 rebs 1.8 stls 0.5 blks 38 mins pg - 23 PER

Less minutes, better fg%, better defense, we are speaking about NOW Wade is STILL better. If you're asking me build a team around for the future then Harden of course but that is not the question at hand and that's what people keep thinking

Clippersfan86
09-25-2013, 11:14 AM
I didn't realize Harden's FG% was so low, since he has a TS% of like 60.

D-Leethal
09-25-2013, 11:18 AM
If DWade was the #1 option on his own team with Jeremy Lin and Chandler Parsons as his sidekicks offensively, don't you think his percentages would take a hit?

Put Harden next to LeBron dude is shooting 50%. Look at his % his last year in OKC when he wasn't asked to take as many shots or score 25ppg.

Again, this stuff shouldn't be rocket science.

If Wade saw nightly double teams, was the focus of the defense with "pretty good" 23 yr olds surrounding him as his main weapons, it would be a disaster. Its easy to look past the eye test that show his skills and athleticism to be rapidly deterioring and point to his stats playing off the best player of this generation as a second fiddle/afterthought that the defense barely bothers to guard unless he's within 10 feet of the basket and say "oh hay Wades still got it!"

Its clear he doesn't and its clear Harden is on another level right now. Two years ago this wouldn't be a question. 2 years in the NBA is a long time - youngins turn into superstars and superstars turn into has-beens.

Sadds The Gr8
09-25-2013, 12:46 PM
Wade's garbage post-season shows he's the inferior player right now.

sammyvine
09-25-2013, 12:48 PM
I didn't realize Harden's FG% was so low, since he has a TS% of like 60.
wade plays on a much better team

if harden was playing with lebron, allen, bosh, etc...his stats would look much better

kdspurman
09-25-2013, 12:49 PM
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/heatzone/2013/09/24/james-harden-over-dwyane-wade-kevin-durant-thinks-so-video/

Here's the video with Durant's comments lol. Hahaha... look at him shake his head after Wade is listed LMAO. No respect for Wade at all.

Haha... He didn't hesitate at all once the guy asked who Harden should replace.

ATX
09-25-2013, 01:00 PM
Wade's garbage post-season shows he's the inferior player right now.

It's called being injured, but I'd expect nothing else from you. He showed up huge in the games that mattered most. Go back and look...

Sadds The Gr8
09-25-2013, 01:05 PM
It's called being injured, but I'd expect nothing else from you. He showed up huge in the games that mattered most. Go back and look...

I don't give a flying ****. Lots of players play injured and put up better stats, but I'd expect nothing less from a DWade nut rider. He's declined in 2 straight post-seasons. If he was too hurt, he shouldn't have played.

SteBO
09-25-2013, 01:39 PM
I dunno...KD kinda has a right to an opinion, though he's clearly biased towards his boy (Harden). I'll take the guy that plays defense and has won 3 championships......

WadeCounty
09-25-2013, 01:40 PM
This was his 06-07 season where half the year he was injured, a shaq riding the bench with an old team
gp 51 min 37.9 fgm-a9.3-18.9 fg%.491 ft%.807 reb 4.7 ast 7.5 blk 1.2 stl 2.1 to4.2 pts27.4

07-08 near identical stats still half the year injured with no one on the team but haslem, we had chris quinn and marc blount for crying out loud, I'd post the stats but I gtg

look up 08-09 constant double teams check out his stats

Point being that was then this is now? what's Hardens excuse for not putting up those type of numbers if the both of them had scrubs on their team, both faced double teams ect ect?

I'd still take TODAY an aging Wade over Harden

SLY WILLIAMS
09-25-2013, 01:52 PM
I think Harden over Wade at this time is a legit discussion based on last season.

Since Durant also said that: 'Danilo Gallinari and Tony Allen are the toughest defensive players in the NBA' I think everything he says is great!!! :)

therealwd27
09-25-2013, 02:03 PM
Remember that finals when Harden and Durant beat Wade and LBJ? When Harden dominated and made Wade look like the inferior player?

oh wait me either. Never happened -_-

D-Leethal
09-25-2013, 02:05 PM
This was his 06-07 season where half the year he was injured, a shaq riding the bench with an old team
gp 51 min 37.9 fgm-a9.3-18.9 fg%.491 ft%.807 reb 4.7 ast 7.5 blk 1.2 stl 2.1 to4.2 pts27.4

07-08 near identical stats still half the year injured with no one on the team but haslem, we had chris quinn and marc blount for crying out loud, I'd post the stats but I gtg

look up 08-09 constant double teams check out his stats

Point being that was then this is now? what's Hardens excuse for not putting up those type of numbers if the both of them had scrubs on their team, both faced double teams ect ect?

I'd still take TODAY an aging Wade over Harden

I never said prime Harden was better than prime Wade. I am pretty confident he won't be. But either way, Harden isn't even in his prime yet, and he's only played one season as the #1 option. In 2-3 years you can have that discussion. This discussion is about who is better right now. Wade is further passing his prime by the minute, regardless if he can still put up some nice stats now he is able to play off of the best player of this generation and a top 3 player of all time. You put him in the same situation he was in while he was in his prime, his team wouldn't make the playoffs and he would be far from an MVP candidate.

therealwd27
09-25-2013, 02:06 PM
I don't give a flying ****. Lots of players play injured and put up better stats, but I'd expect nothing less from a DWade nut rider. He's declined in 2 straight post-seasons. If he was too hurt, he shouldn't have played.

yea your 100% right, cant believe we lost both finals and Wade played horrible when it mattered most.

oh wait that never happened either -_- go to sleep past your bed time

D-Leethal
09-25-2013, 02:13 PM
It seems everyone always needs to change what the thread is all about. In the skillset thread everyone starts saying 'No LeBron is better!!!'. Were not talking about who's freakin' better. Were talking about who has the most diverse skillset.

"Noooo Wade schooled Harden in the playoffs 2 years ago!!". Were not talking about two years ago. Were talking about last year/right now, where Wade played like a major shell of himself to anyone who has a good set of eyes and doesn't focus solely on a devoid-of-context statsheet.

Too much ADD up in this piece.

Sadds The Gr8
09-25-2013, 02:20 PM
yea your 100% right, cant believe we lost both finals and Wade played horrible when it mattered most.

oh wait that never happened either -_- go to sleep past your bed time
wtf does that have to do with my post? Seems u need some reading comprehension kid.

blahblahyoutoo
09-25-2013, 02:30 PM
this banter is entirely fabricated for publicity.

Big Zo
09-25-2013, 02:31 PM
If Harden gave OKC anything in the finals, they might have won two games.

bearadonisdna
09-25-2013, 02:32 PM
Maybe Durant should learn himself some respect.

Dade County
09-25-2013, 02:37 PM
If DWade was the #1 option on his own team with Jeremy Lin and Chandler Parsons as his sidekicks offensively, don't you think his percentages would take a hit?

Put Harden next to LeBron dude is shooting 50%. Look at his % his last year in OKC when he wasn't asked to take as many shots or score 25ppg.

Again, this stuff shouldn't be rocket science.

If Wade saw nightly double teams, was the focus of the defense with "pretty good" 23 yr olds surrounding him as his main weapons, it would be a disaster. Its easy to look past the eye test that show his skills and athleticism to be rapidly deterioring and point to his stats playing off the best player of this generation as a second fiddle/afterthought that the defense barely bothers to guard unless he's within 10 feet of the basket and say "oh hay Wades still got it!"

Its clear he doesn't and its clear Harden is on another level right now. Two years ago this wouldn't be a question. 2 years in the NBA is a long time - youngins turn into superstars and superstars turn into has-beens.

If you are trying to say that Harden is a Super Star...? He is not, Harden is a Star (global brand big difference).

bearadonisdna
09-25-2013, 02:38 PM
edit.

nycericanguy
09-25-2013, 02:47 PM
I'd still take Wade over Harden... at least for now.

Harden hasn't proven enough, he shot 43% last year, yes he gets to the line a ton, but still if you put Wade on CHI or NY or another good team as the #1 option, I have no doubt he could still put up 27/6/5 on 50%. Not to mention he shows up for big games and plays defense.

He's become very under appreciated.

Harden played a lot more minute, but if you look at their PER 36 #'s from last year Wade is right there, and that's as a #2 option!

Chronz
09-25-2013, 03:04 PM
Kinda surprised players care about this stupid ****

Not from these guys. Both have said they aim for certain stats every game, won't shoot buzzer beaters etc, so not surprising at all. They obviously care about the petty things in basketball.
Whats petty here?

Chronz
09-25-2013, 03:16 PM
KD didn't own anyone.

I dont think you know KD but feel free to post what KD has said over the years. Hes had sufficient talent to win, hell in the Finals he had the 2nd best sidekick on his team. Its just that his boy was locked up by the very man hes degrading.

I thought "show me don't tweet me" was pretty solid, short and sweet "I don't care enough to give you the time of day" response, while Wade's was a whiney childish response "Im gonna cry and make a big scene because lil Kevvy doesn't think Im good anymore". Wade didn't show anyone he was better than JHarden last year which was KD's point. Show it this time, don't cry on twitter.

I have to know KD to state what he publicly said? I'm not going to search around for a quote from 3+ years ago but when they formed he echoed Magic Johnson's sentiments about "I would prefer to go out an beat my best opponents, not join them". He said it publicly directly after the decision and the hoopla that followed.

I'm not begging you to take my word for it, feel free not to, but it happened.
I thought he posted the note on instagram. Did he tweet it to Durant or something?

Not sold on Wade not showing anything last season, harden proved he was more durable thats for sure.

And you can state what he said, its when you give your opinion on his emotions that I get curious. Either way, he inherited comparable (if not superior due to Wades inability to remain healthy) talent so its a moot point.

Btw,
Magic was just as hypocritical when he CHOSE to enter the draft once he learned he wasn't going to chicago and could play with kareem instead of trying to beat the mvp of the league.

Chronz
09-25-2013, 03:20 PM
It's called being injured, but I'd expect nothing else from you. He showed up huge in the games that mattered most. Go back and look...

I don't give a flying ****. Lots of players play injured and put up better stats, but I'd expect nothing less from a DWade nut rider. He's declined in 2 straight post-seasons. If he was too hurt, he shouldn't have played.
But then he would be putting himself ahead of the team, why would that be more honorable?

SteBO
09-25-2013, 03:27 PM
All of you guys talking about Wade "showing" KD are giving credit to the wrong person. LBJ was/is the head of the proverbial snake in Miami. Wade didn't do ****....Wade is a very good player, but he is not and was not the great player he was in 2012 much less today. The injuries have taken a toll on him and he is a shell of his former self. What he did against the Mavs in the finals was nothing short of amazing, but this isn't the same player right now. This is like Mario Chalmers telling KD that he would "show him....again". The Heat were the better team nuff said. I would be reluctant to spout off to the 2nd best player in the game if I was Wade.
No doubt LeBron is the head of the snake in Miami, but without Dwyane Wade, LeBron is right back to where he was 3 years ago and there’s no debating this. Having a guy alongside you that can put up 21/5/5 on 50+% shooting over a larger regular season sample size in addition to showing up “big” in games that can be the difference between winning a title and losing in the ECF is a huge luxury LeBron has. KD has had that same luxury, sans last years’ playoffs, and hasn’t done anything with it yet.

Wade is one of the most underappreciated superstars in the league. Within reason, he’s earned every right to spout off at KD if he so chooses. He’s a 3-time champ.

nycericanguy
09-25-2013, 03:44 PM
No doubt LeBron is the head of the snake in Miami, but without Dwyane Wade, LeBron is right back to where he was 3 years ago and there’s no debating this. Having a guy alongside you that can put up 21/5/5 on 50+% shooting over a larger regular season sample size in addition to showing up “big” in games that can be the difference between winning a title and losing in the ECF is a huge luxury LeBron has. KD has had that same luxury, sans last years’ playoffs, and hasn’t done anything with it yet.

Wade is one of the most underappreciated superstars in the league. Within reason, he’s earned every right to spout off at KD if he so chooses. He’s a 3-time champ.

Agreed. And even by a lot of MIA fans now. I've seen many posts questioning Lebron's "help".

Wade is the best #2 guy in the league, he can easily still be a #1 on most teams.

Harden hasn't earned the right to be above him yet... especially when defense is factored in and "big game" performances. And people act like he's on crutches now, he still played in more games last year than Melo for instance. I think the injuries are overblown.

FlashBolt
09-25-2013, 03:47 PM
All of you guys making the "Wade would take a drastic hit in stats if he didn't play with James" are forgetting that it works both ways. Wade would get more USG and his PPG, APG, RPG, and many of his individual stats would go up. And how are you so sure Harden could defer to James like Wade did? Wade has been insanely efficient when it matters. Just like the Finals, everyone counts him out and he just plays like he's the best.

Bruno
09-25-2013, 04:25 PM
his place in history? this is about today. not what he accomplished in 2006, or what he accomplished last season during ring 'three' when he posted 15.8 points per game on a TS% under .500 with the lowest playoff WS/48 since his rookie campaign. this is about today, durant wasn't questioning the dudes place in the history of the game.

D-Leethal
09-25-2013, 04:30 PM
his place in history? this is about today. not what he accomplished in 2006, or what he accomplished last season during ring 'three' when he posted 15.8 points per game on a TS% under .500 with the lowest playoff WS/48 since his rookie campaign. this is about today, durant wasn't questioning the dudes place in the history of the game.

Seems like most people on this forum have trouble differentiating that as well.

Minimal
09-25-2013, 04:31 PM
Wade is still better than Harden. 3 time champion, efficient all around player, who made a sacrifice to become the 2nd option on his team, great defender. Harden hasn't proved much. 24 PER>23 PER.

ATX
09-25-2013, 04:37 PM
I don't give a flying ****. Lots of players play injured and put up better stats, but I'd expect nothing less from a DWade nut rider. He's declined in 2 straight post-seasons. If he was too hurt, he shouldn't have played.

LOL, someone's a little mad. Please do tell who these "Lot's" of better players are that put up better stats when suffering knee injuries.

Sandman
09-25-2013, 04:38 PM
I like the animosity from Durant, but he needs to get a ring before he mentions Wade again. Durant showed lots of flaws, even doubted my expectations of him. He had a chance to carry them past the Grizz and show what he could do without WB, but didn't captivate. With that being said, I disagree. Harden is producing because of the opportunity he has. Wade without James would be a top 5 player. We're not seeing that because James has pretty much taken over the duties. Makes for a great rivalry, just hope these two can see each other again.

The team obviously gets a lot worse without Westbrook. That's a royal screw not an opportunity.

ATX
09-25-2013, 04:42 PM
Duplicate

xxplayerxx23
09-25-2013, 05:07 PM
It's close.. I think harden will explode this year.
26-5-7 47-50%

wade has been declining but is still solid. I think id take harden for now

PurpleLynch
09-25-2013, 06:15 PM
Ah,today was a good day. I like these kind of trash talks,they put some pepper in the games.

Teeboy1487
09-25-2013, 06:33 PM
Wade is underrated even by his own piers. I still think Wade is better than Harden. This will only motivate him.

abe_froman
09-25-2013, 06:39 PM
he's right,i'd take harden over wade

bearadonisdna
09-25-2013, 06:41 PM
If peopel are complaining about wade playoff decline why are they so impressed with harden he slumped and declined in the playoffs as well.

therealwd27
09-25-2013, 06:48 PM
If peopel are complaining about wade playoff decline why are they so impressed with harden he slumped and declined in the playoffs as well.

Cause most of these idiots just hate anything related to Miami. do not waste your time.

They all forgot how Harden performed in the Finals he gets a pass. But a hobbled Wade doesn't. KD is getting a little ahead of himself as well, but we cant speak negative about the 2nd coming of Jesus. Harden was a shell of a shell of a shell in the Finals against the Heat, remind me how did Wade perform?

SportsFanatic10
09-25-2013, 10:45 PM
there has been so many stupid and misinformed posts in this thread that i won't even try to quote and respond to them all. the bottom line is this is good for the game and i can't wait for the season when the action hits the court again. i love when wade is motivated, and he's been working with tim grover again, he is going to have a very good season. a healthy wade is still very much a top 5 player with only lebron and durant clearly ahead. his numbers have went down more so because of playing with lebron than his haters like to admit, and wade is probably the most unselfish of any of the superstars in the league. but i think he's starting to have enough of all the ridiculous disrespect, i especially despise the heat fans that jumped ship from the cavs to follow lebron. these fans make our whole fan base look bad and don't respect a great like dwade because it diminishes lebrons accomplishments in their minds. obviously the knees are the big question mark but i think he's gonna make alot of people look dumb this year.

i also noticed the link in the op doesn't show wades other statement saying "don't believe me just watch". that makes durant's comeback look even weaker since wade already said he's planning on showing him. durant is starting to become a little mouthy considering he hasn't won with his own set of elite talent. wade won in his 3rd season with a worse team than some of the teams durant has had. he's definitely starting to lose that humble, nice guy image. kinda seems like he has a man crush on harden too lol, first calling him the best guard in the league and now this. i wonder what westbrook had to say to him about that. anyways harden really needs to learn to play defense then if wade's knees are still slowing him down people can accurately say this.

SportsFanatic10
09-25-2013, 11:00 PM
All of you guys talking about Wade "showing" KD are giving credit to the wrong person. LBJ was/is the head of the proverbial snake in Miami. Wade didn't do ****....Wade is a very good player, but he is not and was not the great player he was in 2012 much less today. The injuries have taken a toll on him and he is a shell of his former self. What he did against the Mavs in the finals was nothing short of amazing, but this isn't the same player right now. This is like Mario Chalmers telling KD that he would "show him....again". The Heat were the better team nuff said. I would be reluctant to spout off to the 2nd best player in the game if I was Wade.

hahahahaha wow! no...no it really isn't at all.



anyways one last thing about harden that i know has been mentioned in this thread already but i wanted to include in my last post was that his playoff performance hasn't been so great. wade has proven time and time again that he steps up on basketballs biggest stage, including badly outplaying harden himself head to head(on a knee that needed to be drained several times and required surgery after the finals). harden has some things to prove when it comes to that.

northsider
09-25-2013, 11:02 PM
Wade is still better than Harden. 3 time champion, efficient all around player, who made a sacrifice to become the 2nd option on his team, great defender. Harden hasn't proved much. 24 PER>23 PER.

LMAO I wouldn't exactly call it a sacrifice. I think the words you are looking for is "no choice".

Chronz
09-25-2013, 11:06 PM
If peopel are complaining about wade playoff decline why are they so impressed with harden he slumped and declined in the playoffs as well.

Because of the differential gap between the 2. When Wade was healthy, which was basically during their Winning streak, Wade was playing at a LeBron like level. I doubt Harden is capable of that, but what he is capable of is remaining healthy.

SportsFanatic10
09-25-2013, 11:11 PM
LMAO I wouldn't exactly call it a sacrifice. I think the word you are looking for is "no choice".

less money, media attention, respect, shots, stats, etc...ya no sacrifice at all. what makes you think he had no choice, wade could of went to your bulls and probably won a title if he wanted in 2010. he certainly had choices and still been his teams number 1 option on a contender, and lebron wasn't coming without wades support, wade is truly a team first player and that is rare for a super star. give him his props, it's absolutely been a sacrifice.

Sadds The Gr8
09-25-2013, 11:20 PM
LOL, someone's a little mad. Please do tell who these "Lot's" of better players are that put up better stats when suffering knee injuries.

you're the one that got butthurt at my post...so why would I be mad? I never said players get better with knee injuries, I said players have put up better stats while being hurt than Wade did while he was hurt, meaning stop using that as an excuse. Didn't he have a knee injury last year and still play better in the post-season? He's declined 2 post-seasons in a row, so injuries or not, there's a legit argument for Harden over him this upcoming season since that's what we're talking about. Not 2010 or 2011, or 2012. Wade is not different from any other player. Everyone declines with age/injuries. Get over it

Chronz
09-25-2013, 11:25 PM
you're the one that got butthurt at my post...so why would I be mad? I never said players get better with knee injuries, I said players have put up better stats while being hurt than Wade did while he was hurt, meaning stop using that as an excuse. Didn't he have a knee injury last year and still play better in the post-season? He's declined 2 post-seasons in a row, so injuries or not, there's a legit argument for Harden over him this upcoming season since that's what we're talking about. Not 2010 or 2011, or 2012. Wade is not different from any other player. Everyone declines with age/injuries. Get over it

Im pretty sure he knows what you were trying to get at, hes asking for those examples.


But what do you mean by this:
Didn't he have a knee injury last year and still play better in the post-season?

And then you say;

He's declined 2 post-seasons in a row

Sounds like you're mad but I could be confused.

Sadds The Gr8
09-26-2013, 12:35 AM
Im pretty sure he knows what you were trying to get at, hes asking for those examples.


But what do you mean by this:
Didn't he have a knee injury last year and still play better in the post-season?

And then you say;

He's declined 2 post-seasons in a row

Sounds like you're mad but I could be confused.
Last year he was rumoured to have a knee injury in the post-season, didn't he? They said he had it drained in the middle of the Indy series then he went off in that game 4 IIRC. He did decline the past 2 years from the "prime Wade", but in the '12 post-season he was still much better than he was in the '13 post-season.

I don't think he has the legs anymore to dominate in the reg. season AND post-season, and he was butt in the playoffs this year so that's why I think Harden is better.

And what's there for me to be mad about? we aren't discussing any players on my team.

northsider
09-26-2013, 12:47 AM
less money, media attention, respect, shots, stats, etc...ya no sacrifice at all. what makes you think he had no choice, wade could of went to your bulls and probably won a title if he wanted in 2010. he certainly had choices and still been his teams number 1 option on a contender, and lebron wasn't coming without wades support, wade is truly a team first player and that is rare for a super star. give him his props, it's absolutely been a sacrifice.

Less respect??? Media attention??? Are you kidding first of all he was in the middle of a media circus being apart of the super bro's team, he was getting more attention then ever and still does. Then lose respect??? How and to who? Wade is a stud and one of the best the league has seen but, this wasn't some sort of hard sacrifice to make cause he put himself in the best situation to win. I hope most players would be willing to make such a tough sacrifice......

Yes I feel terrible he teamed up with the best player in the NBA to win a couple more titles to his legacy. What a tough sacrifice to make....

SportsFanatic10
09-26-2013, 12:59 AM
Less respect??? Media attention??? Are you kidding first of all he was in the middle of a media circus being apart of the super bro's team, he was getting more attention then ever and still does. Then lose respect??? How and to who? Wade is a stud and one of the best the league has seen but, this wasn't some sort of hard sacrifice to make cause he put himself in the best situation to win. I hope most players would be willing to make such a tough sacrifice......

Yes I feel terrible he teamed up with the best player in the NBA to win a couple more titles to his legacy. What a tough sacrifice to make....

less respect because he's become extremely underrated and undervalued. some people actually think he couldn't lead a team now lol.

less media attention because now lebron has all the reporters around him and it's now considered lebrons team so when they show promos for say heat vs celtics they'll show a picture of lebron and kg or pierce or someone but almost never wade. the heat as a franchise all got tons of attention and the big 3 too. but wade used to BE the heat, so less for him in general.

and you'd hope most players would put themselves in the best situation but it rarely happens, they all chase money or want their own team like harden etc. and it's one thing to put yourself in a great situation with lots of talent, it's another to take a backseat in order to make it work and learn how to play off the ball much more with less shots and touches. its a sacrifice bottom line dude...

Bostonjorge
09-26-2013, 02:24 AM
After this season harden will increase the gap even bigger between the 2. Harden still needs to play some better playoff basketball but wade has lost a step or 2.

numba1CHANGsta
09-26-2013, 02:27 AM
Who made that top 10 list? so stupid, there's 10 guys I would take over half of those players. KD is right tho, Harden>Kobe>Wade js..

Goose17
09-26-2013, 06:42 AM
382989941438824449

ATX
09-26-2013, 09:45 AM
Last year he was rumoured to have a knee injury in the post-season, didn't he? They said he had it drained in the middle of the Indy series then he went off in that game 4 IIRC. He did decline the past 2 years from the "prime Wade", but in the '12 post-season he was still much better than he was in the '13 post-season.

I don't think he has the legs anymore to dominate in the reg. season AND post-season, and he was butt in the playoffs this year so that's why I think Harden is better.

And what's there for me to be mad about? we aren't discussing any players on my team.

I know Wade is declining. It was to be expected considering his fearless style of play. When he was injured last season and lost the explosiveness he lost the fearlessness and became stagnant. He chose his spots and was effective when he needed to be. I'll admit it looked like he was coasting sometimes and more of a decoy out there considering he was afraid to take it to the rim. His FTA's were extremely low for him, probably the lowest of his career. He was obviously injured...But my point was that in the games that mattered most like in game 4 when Miami was in danger of going down 3 games to 1, he exploded for 32 points on 56% shooting, and then again in game 7 he came up big. Overall yes of course his playoffs were poor considering what's expected from the best of the best. I have no problem whatsoever with you or anyone ranking Harden above Wade for the upcoming season, it's the disrespect you throw at Wade, saying he's garbage that I take offense to. He's turning 32 next season, and while his minutes and games will be managed as to have him injury free come playoff time, I bet anything his efficiency remains at an elite level, and that he puts up similar #'s to last season. I know it's been said 100x, but when Wade is motivated, he backs it up.

Oefarmy2005
09-26-2013, 09:45 AM
If I was Wade, I would say something like this: "Talk to me when you get back to the finals." Let's be honest here, Harden is a great player, but do you really think Wade doesn't put up 30 ppg last season if he plays with the Rockets who didn't have much of a secondary scoring option?

Oefarmy2005
09-26-2013, 09:48 AM
It's a garbage list anyways. Tim Duncan is not top 10 anything next year.

kdspurman
09-26-2013, 09:59 AM
It's a garbage list anyways. Tim Duncan is not top 10 anything next year.

The season hasn't even played out yet, how can you be so sure? Especially when you factor in how they come up with their rankings.

Sadds The Gr8
09-26-2013, 10:37 AM
I know Wade is declining. It was to be expected considering his fearless style of play. When he was injured last season and lost the explosiveness he lost the fearlessness and became stagnant. He chose his spots and was effective when he needed to be. I'll admit it looked like he was coasting sometimes and more of a decoy out there considering he was afraid to take it to the rim. His FTA's were extremely low for him, probably the lowest of his career. He was obviously injured...But my point was that in the games that mattered most like in game 4 when Miami was in danger of going down 3 games to 1, he exploded for 32 points on 56% shooting, and then again in game 7 he came up big. Overall yes of course his playoffs were poor considering what's expected from the best of the best. I have no problem whatsoever with you or anyone ranking Harden above Wade for the upcoming season, it's the disrespect you throw at Wade, saying he's garbage that I take offense to. He's turning 32 next season, and while his minutes and games will be managed as to have him injury free come playoff time, I bet anything his efficiency remains at an elite level, and that he puts up similar #'s to last season. I know it's been said 100x, but when Wade is motivated, he backs it up.

please show me where I said that...my first post was that Wade's horrible post-season was the reason I give Harden the edge now. Never said he was an overall trash player now. Like I said, I don't think he has the legs to dominate both seasons anymore. He might be in Duncan/Ginobili territory where they have to rest him on back2back's and ****. He MAY be able to be more effective if he saves himself for the playoffs, but for that fact, yes I do give Harden the edge. Historically, I do think Wade's prime/peak is underrated, but right now I think he gets overrated.

Sadds The Gr8
09-26-2013, 10:39 AM
382989941438824449

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true. I did find it weird that they went after each other after making a gatorade commercial earlier this year. He might be right

KnickaBocka.44
09-26-2013, 10:49 AM
I love how everyone here worships efficiency metrics until they show that Wade isn't the most efficient SG.

MonroeFAN
09-26-2013, 11:18 AM
hardens been doing it for 2 years now , wades been doing it for how many?
i can understand wades need to defend himself... harden is a beast though

This post is really confusing. Who's side are you on here?

L@ker4Life
09-26-2013, 11:28 AM
If DWade was the #1 option on his own team with Jeremy Lin and Chandler Parsons as his sidekicks offensively, don't you think his percentages would take a hit?

Put Harden next to LeBron dude is shooting 50%. Look at his % his last year in OKC when he wasn't asked to take as many shots or score 25ppg.

Again, this stuff shouldn't be rocket science.

If Wade saw nightly double teams, was the focus of the defense with "pretty good" 23 yr olds surrounding him as his main weapons, it would be a disaster. Its easy to look past the eye test that show his skills and athleticism to be rapidly deterioring and point to his stats playing off the best player of this generation as a second fiddle/afterthought that the defense barely bothers to guard unless he's within 10 feet of the basket and say "oh hay Wades still got it!"

Its clear he doesn't and its clear Harden is on another level right now. Two years ago this wouldn't be a question. 2 years in the NBA is a long time - youngins turn into superstars and superstars turn into has-beens.

Preach.

Chronz
09-26-2013, 12:27 PM
I love how everyone here worships efficiency metrics until they show that Wade isn't the most efficient SG.
Wat?

FlashBolt
09-26-2013, 12:54 PM
The team obviously gets a lot worse without Westbrook. That's a royal screw not an opportunity.

What were they saying before that? Durant should ask for the ball. He got it and he completely stunk up for 4 straight games, going 1/7 in FG and 1/4 in FT's for the last 2 minutes. He's an amazing talent but I think people don't give RWB enough credit. I watch him play and he's more of a pro than a con, by far. KD just had the opportunity to close out Memphis because it was really close. He just didn't do it and disappointed many.

KnickaBocka.44
09-26-2013, 01:18 PM
Wat?

Harden had Wade beat in TS% last season, which according to everyone here is the most reliable metric for efficiency.

People around this forum talk about efficiency like it's the end all be all...until it doesn't support their belief.

King-Wade
09-26-2013, 01:20 PM
If DWade was the #1 option on his own team with Jeremy Lin and Chandler Parsons as his sidekicks offensively, don't you think his percentages would take a hit?

Put Harden next to LeBron dude is shooting 50%. Look at his % his last year in OKC when he wasn't asked to take as many shots or score 25ppg.

Again, this stuff shouldn't be rocket science.

If Wade saw nightly double teams, was the focus of the defense with "pretty good" 23 yr olds surrounding him as his main weapons, it would be a disaster. Its easy to look past the eye test that show his skills and athleticism to be rapidly deterioring and point to his stats playing off the best player of this generation as a second fiddle/afterthought that the defense barely bothers to guard unless he's within 10 feet of the basket and say "oh hay Wades still got it!"

Its clear he doesn't and its clear Harden is on another level right now. Two years ago this wouldn't be a question. 2 years in the NBA is a long time - youngins turn into superstars and superstars turn into has-beens.

You must be joking with these statements. You do realize DWade played without LeBron at one point on a team filled with scrubs.

Take the 08-09 season. That team had a rookie Beasley, Chalmers, Marion (who really cant do much without Nash), and a broken Jermaine Oneal. Yet DWade still managed to put up 30.2 PPG, 7.5 APG, 5 RPG, 2.2 SPG, and 1.3 BPG all while shooting a damn good 49.1% from the field. You put DWade on a team with Lin and Parsons and he would put up those same numbers.

And you're crazy if you don't think he was getting double teams that season. He was arguably the MVP of that year and could have won the award if his team was a little better.

I rarely post on PSD anymore but I just had to after reading your post. DWade didn't have the greatest season last year and I'm sure its partly due to decline. But it was also evident that he wasn't 100% healthy last year. Let us wait until next year to write him off. But for now, DWade is still over Harden in my eyes.

Heatcheck
09-26-2013, 01:33 PM
Harden had Wade beat in TS% last season, which according to everyone here is the most reliable metric for efficiency.

People around this forum talk about efficiency like it's the end all be all...until it doesn't support their belief.

Regardless of how you feel about advanced stats, TS% is just one facet of a players game, if half the game wasn't played on defense, then Harden having better numbers in that one metric would hold more weight

KnickaBocka.44
09-26-2013, 01:43 PM
Regardless of how you feel about advanced stats, TS% is just one facet of a players game, if half the game wasn't played on defense, then Harden having better numbers in that one metric would hold more weight

I'm more-so talking about the hypocrisy of people on this site and the stock they put into evaluating players.

Wade's 3.5 DWS from last season doesn't destroy Harden's 3.0 either. There is more disparity in their efficiency, based on the amount of players separating them in rankings, than there is their respective Defensive Win Shares.

One could take this to mean that the gap on offense in greater than the gap on defense, and therefore Harden is currently the better player.

beasted86
09-26-2013, 02:28 PM
I'm more-so talking about the hypocrisy of people on this site and the stock they put into evaluating players.

Wade's 3.5 DWS from last season doesn't destroy Harden's 3.0 either. There is more disparity in their efficiency, based on the amount of players separating them in rankings, than there is their respective Defensive Win Shares.

One could take this to mean that the gap on offense in greater than the gap on defense, and therefore Harden is currently the better player.

All of this stuff is totally subjective. Even when facts face everyone here, they will put a greater emphasis on one area or the other, only to suit their argument as they feel like it. For example if the PER argument doesn't suit their argument, then people will suddenly believe in win shares... if win shares doesn't fit, totally put emphasis on Roland ratings... SMH.

According to win shares Mike Conley and George Hill are both better than Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade. So I'd like you to explain whether its the truth that they are indeed better, or explain why you choose when and when not to believe in win shares. Because the fact is it is either or.

ddt
09-26-2013, 02:55 PM
When D-wade was alone in with the heat he was better than Harden. But, as of today and as of the teammates and the age. Harden is a lil bit ahead of Wade, and the most scary part is, he's just starting.



dailydreamteam.com - "Taking your daily fantasy basketball skills to the next level."

FlashBolt
09-26-2013, 03:05 PM
When D-wade was alone in with the heat he was better than Harden. But, as of today and as of the teammates and the age. Harden is a lil bit ahead of Wade, and the most scary part is, he's just starting.

How is that scary? Wade at 24 was scarier. KD is scary. LBJ at 24 was scary. Harden at 24 is not "scary". If it weren't for those outrageous FT calls he gets, he wouldn't be much.

Asik's better
09-26-2013, 06:35 PM
How is that scary? Wade at 24 was scarier. KD is scary. LBJ at 24 was scary. Harden at 24 is not "scary". If it weren't for those outrageous FT calls he gets, he wouldn't be much.

Just stop, all stars get outrageous FT calls, it's called playing in the NBA. If your a star your going to get the benefit of the doubt and that's never going to change.

And enough with this harden v.s wade debate. If I was going career wise, of cause I would pick wade. However the better player today and going forward in the future, I would pick harden, it's as simple as that.

kdspurman
09-26-2013, 06:54 PM
How is that scary? Wade at 24 was scarier. KD is scary. LBJ at 24 was scary. Harden at 24 is not "scary". If it weren't for those outrageous FT calls he gets, he wouldn't be much.

In fairness, Wade @ 24 got a ton of FT calls, especially in the finals. Durant gets a ton of calls , and many times not warranted. Some guys just get more calls than others. But I guess it just depends on how folks define "scary" in basketball terms.

Driven
09-26-2013, 09:20 PM
less respect because he's become extremely underrated and undervalued. some people actually think he couldn't lead a team now lol.

less media attention because now lebron has all the reporters around him and it's now considered lebrons team so when they show promos for say heat vs celtics they'll show a picture of lebron and kg or pierce or someone but almost never wade. the heat as a franchise all got tons of attention and the big 3 too. but wade used to BE the heat, so less for him in general.

and you'd hope most players would put themselves in the best situation but it rarely happens, they all chase money or want their own team like harden etc. and it's one thing to put yourself in a great situation with lots of talent, it's another to take a backseat in order to make it work and learn how to play off the ball much more with less shots and touches. its a sacrifice bottom line dude...

Dwight Howard just made the SAME sacrifices. Dwight Howard is a douche and he still did it. This is becoming the norm of the NBA now.

I mean, Hell, what just happened to Harden this offseason isn't really any different than what happened to Wade, in your mind. Same sacrifices.

Supreme LA
09-26-2013, 09:30 PM
Harden is good, not great. Wade used to be good and now he's trash. So yeah, Harden is better now.

KnickaBocka.44
09-26-2013, 10:01 PM
All of this stuff is totally subjective. Even when facts face everyone here, they will put a greater emphasis on one area or the other, only to suit their argument as they feel like it. For example if the PER argument doesn't suit their argument, then people will suddenly believe in win shares... if win shares doesn't fit, totally put emphasis on Roland ratings... SMH.

According to win shares Mike Conley and George Hill are both better than Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade. So I'd like you to explain whether its the truth that they are indeed better, or explain why you choose when and when not to believe in win shares. Because the fact is it is either or.

I used DWS because it was the most readily accessible DEFENSIVE stat I could find, name another one and I'll use that. Point being, that you have to prove how much better he is on D, not just say it.

ryang
09-26-2013, 10:17 PM
I'd take wade over harden come playoff time every time. ( yes even when wades hurt.)

FlashBolt
09-26-2013, 11:28 PM
Just stop, all stars get outrageous FT calls, it's called playing in the NBA. If your a star your going to get the benefit of the doubt and that's never going to change.

And enough with this harden v.s wade debate. If I was going career wise, of cause I would pick wade. However the better player today and going forward in the future, I would pick harden, it's as simple as that.

Thanks, but that's you. And no, Harden gets most of his points off free throws. Offensively, he's not really special. When the moment arrives, Wade is there. I can't say the same for Harden as he either turns semi-hot, or just flat out jacking threes.

Clippersfan86
09-27-2013, 12:46 AM
Thanks, but that's you. And no, Harden gets most of his points off free throws. Offensively, he's not really special. When the moment arrives, Wade is there. I can't say the same for Harden as he either turns semi-hot, or just flat out jacking threes.

8 ppg out of 26 ppg is now most?

SportsFanatic10
09-27-2013, 12:58 AM
And enough with this harden v.s wade debate. If I was going career wise, of cause I would pick wade. However the better player today and going forward in the future, I would pick harden, it's as simple as that.

you can pick who you like, and ya obviously a 24 year old harden is the better choice for the future. but the better player today? there certainly isn't enough evidence for it to be "as simple as that".


Dwight Howard just made the SAME sacrifices. Dwight Howard is a douche and he still did it. This is becoming the norm of the NBA now.

I mean, Hell, what just happened to Harden this offseason isn't really any different than what happened to Wade, in your mind. Same sacrifices.

lol howard and wade are very different. howard(obviously a post player and bigman) went to play with a great perimeter player after forcing a trade and not being able to make it work with kobe. wade can make it work with anyone, and invited lebron to come take HIS franchise over, also lebron and wade are similar players in that they're both perimeter ball handlers. lebron takes the ball out of wades hands and forces him to change his game. not the same dude, and at this point howard knows he has to win to redeem himself. wade put winning ahead of everything period, that's rarer than you think among players. and harden the same thing? he left maybe the most stacked team in the league for the future for a bigger role and more money. wade did the opposite of that. but ya more players are teaming up in different ways now now because of the heats big 3 and before then in a different fashion the celtics as well.


Harden is good, not great. Wade used to be good and now he's trash. So yeah, Harden is better now.

lol trash! wow the hate is strong in this one, better prepare to eat crow this season. in fact you already should be eating it with that statement, even a down year for wade last year was ridiculously far from being trash, haha what a joke.

Asik's better
09-27-2013, 01:02 AM
Thanks, but that's you. And no, Harden gets most of his points off free throws. Offensively, he's not really special. When the moment arrives, Wade is there. I can't say the same for Harden as he either turns semi-hot, or just flat out jacking threes.

I didn't say he didn't get most his points from FT's did I? And obversely you didn't watch a lot of Houston games last season you think harden doesn't show during important games. And finally if harden wasn't special on offense, Houston dosnt make the finals last season.

ryang
09-27-2013, 02:22 AM
I didn't say he didn't get most his points from FT's did I? And obversely you didn't watch a lot of Houston games last season you think harden doesn't show during important games. And finally if harden wasn't special on offense, Houston dosnt make the finals last season.

They made the finals last season?

Asik's better
09-27-2013, 02:58 AM
They made the finals last season?
Who Houston? Yes they did.

amos1er
09-27-2013, 03:45 AM
Durant is way off on this one. Harden is far from the best guard in the NBA. He is yet another beneficiary of the David Stern regime much like Wade was back during the 2006 NBA finals. Dude got more love than anyone in the NBA from the refs last season... Even Lebron. He would not average over 22 ppg without the refs and would def not be able to maintain a FG% of over .43 without them either. Every season Stern anoints who is going to get most of the help from the refs so that he could market new talent. Last season it was Harden for sure and the numbers don't lie. Harden has a long way to go if he wants to be recognized as a legit superstar IMO. Lets not forget his crash and burn choke job in the NBA finals but a year ago. One good regular season with the most FT attempts in the NBA is hardly enough to put him over Wade or be considered a top ten player. Durant needs to kick back on this one.

ryang
09-27-2013, 11:18 AM
Who Houston? Yes they did.

By finals you mean??

Avenged
09-27-2013, 01:27 PM
Wade already showed him. Lame come back.

kdspurman
09-27-2013, 01:30 PM
By finals you mean??

I'm assuming playoffs.

ryang
09-27-2013, 02:32 PM
I'm assuming playoffs.

Big difference there. Lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
09-27-2013, 04:31 PM
i'd take wade over harden come playoff time every time. ( yes even when wades hurt.)

ha!

ILLUSIONIST^248
09-27-2013, 04:34 PM
8 ppg out of 26 ppg is now most?

Flashbolt is one of the worst posters on this site and he barely got here, don'tpay him any attention.

Chronz
09-27-2013, 05:14 PM
the numbers don't lie.
I always love when you try to talk numbers. LOL.... plz do show us this analysis. Does it account for the fact that Harden actually had a higher foul draw rate in OKC?

Guppyfighter
09-27-2013, 05:19 PM
This is where the shittness of the NBA forum shines.

ryang
09-27-2013, 06:08 PM
ha!

Got some stats for me? Do you have a point without stats? Please explain this one to me. Wade always has shown up come playoff time even if hobbled. What has harden done? Won the west only to become a ghost against Miami. Ill take wade this season including any season in the past come playoff time.

Asik's better
09-27-2013, 07:02 PM
Big difference there. Lol

Not in australia

ryang
09-27-2013, 08:55 PM
Not in australia

Lmao. Always knew people from there seemed a bit confused.

Asik's better
09-27-2013, 10:57 PM
Lmao. Always knew people from there seemed a bit confused.

Not confused, unbiased. It's the greatest country in the world

SportsFanatic10
09-27-2013, 11:25 PM
Flashbolt is one of the worst posters on this site and he barely got here, don'tpay him any attention.

Ha! Gotta love the irony of this coming from a troll who's on more ignore lists then a telemarketing call center. And the ones who don't have you ignored like me only do so for the comedy.

ryang
09-27-2013, 11:31 PM
Not confused, unbiased. It's the greatest country in the world

Unbiased? How does that apply here? You think making the playoffs is the same as making the nba finals. Greatest country in the world? Lmao.

ryang
09-27-2013, 11:33 PM
Everyone's a champion in Australia. The bucks made the finals to. Lmao.

Asik's better
09-28-2013, 01:09 AM
Everyone's a champion in Australia. The bucks made the finals to. Lmao.

No, what you guys call finals, we call grand final. It sounds more important. You guys just don't think big enough.

FlashBolt
09-28-2013, 01:31 AM
8 ppg out of 26 ppg is now most?

Well, I guess you really don't know basketball.

8 PPG FT's= 8 points
2 3PM per game=6 points
3 layups/dunks per game=6 points
3 jumpshots per game=6 points

Total= 26 points per game, .01 above from 25.9.
He scores most of his "POINTS" from FT's, which is accurate because that's the method in which he scores. Do you understand now? Or do you want me to grab you a pencil and loose leaf paper?


Once again, you just prove why you're a joke of a poster. Your simplicity is what distinguishes you from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

ryang
09-28-2013, 04:31 AM
No, what you guys call finals, we call grand final. It sounds more important. You guys just don't think big enough.

Stop drinking fosters. We call it the Finals because that what there called. If your talking Nba I suppose you should use Nba terms. Not a sport were not talking about. I suppose you mean rugby? Tennis? Wrong forum. Houston made the playoffs. So did the bucks. Both teams = crop. Maybe one day your rockets will reach the grand finale. Lmao

Asik's better
09-28-2013, 04:52 AM
Stop drinking fosters. We call it the Finals because that what there called. If your talking Nba I suppose you should use Nba terms. Not a sport were not talking about. I suppose you mean rugby? Tennis? Wrong forum. Houston made the playoffs. So did the bucks. Both teams = crop. Maybe one day your rockets will reach the grand finale. Lmao

Fosters? Rugby? Are you living in 1988? We drink VB and watch football, real football. But judging by your posts and use of "lmao" I'm dealing with a 12 year old. And I'll use whatever terms I like, it shouldn't worry you that much

FlashBolt
09-28-2013, 11:15 AM
Fosters? Rugby? Are you living in 1988? We drink VB and watch football, real football. But judging by your posts and use of "lmao" I'm dealing with a 12 year old. And I'll use whatever terms I like, it shouldn't worry you that much

You're not very bright. It's called the NBA Finals, always has been for years. It's not called the SuperBowl, World Series, etc,. You are wrong and there is no way to escape, just admit your faults and move on. If you want to speak NBA, use NBA terms so everyone can understand you. Houston didn't make the finals, they made the playoffs. That is a HUGE difference.

beasted86
09-28-2013, 12:32 PM
I used DWS because it was the most readily accessible DEFENSIVE stat I could find, name another one and I'll use that. Point being, that you have to prove how much better he is on D, not just say it.
Win shares in general is a bad stat, period. Doesn't matter if it is offensive or defensive. According to defensive win shares Michael Beasley was the 20th best defender in the NBA his last season playing for the HEAT. I always got a kick out of that one and forever remember it. I'm pretty certain his defensive rating for that year said the same top 20ish ranking. Most of the defensive stats are badly skewed in one way or the other including floor +/- ratings.

Some might want to use "defensive plays" (blocks+steals+charges drawn) but just because you can get these doesn't always make you a good defender either. Wade would be top 20, but so would Monta Ellis... while a guy like Tony Allen doesn't crack top 50.

Sorry, but none of these defensive stats are very accurate. The better stats are by Synergy, and we don't have access to all of the stats anyway or know exactly what it records or the formulas. Most writers cherry pick what stats to use from Synergy in their articles and we end up with this very same subjective view I complained about from the start.

beasted86
09-28-2013, 12:44 PM
8 ppg out of 26 ppg is now most?

Actually its 9 PPG out of 26 since we are rounding up, do it for both.

And the mere fact is he lead the entire league in FTAs. When you consider Carmelo was the scoring champ and he was only at 7.6 a game, and Harden was at 10.2 a game, it kind of puts a spin on why he is scoring so much. And it definitely alters the way teams have to try and defend him, or merely who they have left to defend him assuming the primary guy was always in foul trouble.

ryang
09-28-2013, 12:48 PM
Fosters? Rugby? Are you living in 1988? We drink VB and watch football, real football. But judging by your posts and use of "lmao" I'm dealing with a 12 year old. And I'll use whatever terms I like, it shouldn't worry you that much

Sure guy. Not worried just trying to understand your logic. It's obvious your 12 considering your posts. I know what you call it. Congrats. In America it's called the finals. We don't think big enough yet you only have our sports to watch? Makes sence eyy.

MTar786
09-28-2013, 02:05 PM
prime wade vs prime durant.. give me wade

Asik's better
09-28-2013, 07:23 PM
Sure guy. Not worried just trying to understand your logic. It's obvious your 12 considering your posts. I know what you call it. Congrats. In America it's called the finals. We don't think big enough yet you only have our sports to watch? Makes sence eyy.

So I watch NBA and that means I only watch American sports according to you? Also my logic isn't hard to understand, we call our sports playoffs finals and I accedently called it finals on here. But now I'm going to purposely do that because I know it's going to annoy people.

Chronz
09-28-2013, 07:54 PM
But now I'm going to purposely do that because I know it's going to annoy people.
So you're going to troll people because of him?

Triple_Ocho
09-28-2013, 08:18 PM
uh.. i'd say it was lebron who led the heat against kd and the thunder. wade was secondary to lebron. wade showed kd nothing about his place in history. maybe he showed him he was capable of letting lebron be the man while he became a second option... i dunno... my top 3 shooting guards wouldve been 1. harden, 2. wade, and 3. kobe... im a lakers fan too...

amos1er
09-28-2013, 08:20 PM
I always love when you try to talk numbers. LOL.... plz do show us this analysis. Does it account for the fact that Harden actually had a higher foul draw rate in OKC?

I wouldn't doubt it. Stern's previous mission was to promote OKC and Durant. I'm sure Harden was gifted many unjustified trips to the free throw line as a result.

ryang
09-28-2013, 09:00 PM
So I watch NBA and that means I only watch American sports according to you? Also my logic isn't hard to understand, we call our sports playoffs finals and I accedently called it finals on here. But now I'm going to purposely do that because I know it's going to annoy people.

What's sad is I just tried to understand your logic. You did explain it but you had to throw names calling into it. Don't pretend to be a victim. Also you said by making the playoffs it means you made it to the finals. Hard to talk American sports with Americans when you don't know what are playoff system means.

Chronz
09-28-2013, 10:20 PM
I wouldn't doubt it. Stern's previous mission was to promote OKC and Durant. I'm sure Harden was gifted many unjustified trips to the free throw line as a result.
Saw that BS coming. So how come players that were transferred to OKC (like Kevin Martin for example) saw very little change by the same measure? Shouldn't we have expected something of a return to his prime form?

Lemme guess, Stern stopped wanting to promote OKC 6th men this year ?? LMFAO.

Knowledge
09-28-2013, 10:38 PM
prime wade vs prime durant.. give me wade

Durant isn't in his prime yet, he is only 24.

Asik's better
09-28-2013, 10:38 PM
What's sad is I just tried to understand your logic. You did explain it but you had to throw names calling into it. Don't pretend to be a victim. Also you said by making the playoffs it means you made it to the finals. Hard to talk American sports with Americans when you don't know what are playoff system means.
Playing the victim? Who's posts are you reading. And when did I call you a name?

ryang
09-28-2013, 11:00 PM
Playing the victim? Who's posts are you reading. And when did I call you a name?

Read our conversation from the start

FlashBolt
09-28-2013, 11:58 PM
Playing the victim? Who's posts are you reading. And when did I call you a name?

You're wrong, we're right. Don't try and act like you're the one who isn't wrong. You clearly said Finals, something that Houston didn't reach. It's called the playoffs. Two completely different meanings. Sign off and take an advil, go night night.

Asik's better
09-29-2013, 01:41 AM
Read our conversation from the start

I do not see one post were I play the victim or insult you. Your imaging things.

kobe4thewinbang
09-30-2013, 04:19 AM
I love Durant, and he'll be a champion one day, but Wade came to play against San Antonio. Durant just seems upset that he no longer has Harden in OKC, and because OKC didn't return to the Finals last season.

FlashBolt
09-30-2013, 09:47 AM
I love Durant, and he'll be a champion one day, but Wade came to play against San Antonio. Durant just seems upset that he no longer has Harden in OKC, and because OKC didn't return to the Finals last season.

No, he's just stating his opinion. I don't agree with Durant but you have to be stupid to say Harden is not going to get some votes as the best SG. Maybe not guard, as CP and Parker are much better players.

canefandynasty
09-30-2013, 03:33 PM
Durant isn't in his prime yet, he is only 24.

Wade led his team to a chip at 24, having one of the greatest Finals performances ever. Durant is still in his age 25 season w/o a ring and 5 seasons in already. Wade won a ring by his 3rd season.

mjt20mik
09-30-2013, 03:56 PM
Wade led his team to a chip at 24, having one of the greatest Finals performances ever. Durant is still in his age 25 season w/o a ring and 5 seasons in already. Wade won a ring by his 3rd season.

He had Shaq. Not knocking anything against Wade, but Shaq was a still a pretty dominant force in 06.

ryang
09-30-2013, 04:04 PM
He had Shaq. Not knocking anything against Wade, but Shaq was a still a pretty dominant force in 06.

Agree but wade carried his *** in the finals.

FlashBolt
09-30-2013, 04:42 PM
Wade led his team to a chip at 24, having one of the greatest Finals performances ever. Durant is still in his age 25 season w/o a ring and 5 seasons in already. Wade won a ring by his 3rd season.

.... So James got his ring at age 27, you knocking him down for that too?

canefandynasty
09-30-2013, 04:57 PM
He had Shaq. Not knocking anything against Wade, but Shaq was a still a pretty dominant force in 06.

How many all time greats have won championship w/o another all star caliber player on their team? Very few. Shaq was on the decline when Wade carried his arse. He isn't the peak Shaq in LA. He was still good but far from dominant as you're claiming. Wade was by far the lead dog on that Heat 06 team.

canefandynasty
09-30-2013, 05:00 PM
.... So James got his ring at age 27, you knocking him down for that too?

LeBron early in his career played with nowhere the talent that Durant has now. Durant couldn't advance his team w/o Westbrook, and looked like a different player compared what we're used to seeing. LeBron led a bunch of scrubs to the 07 Finals

tredigs
09-30-2013, 05:39 PM
LeBron early in his career played with nowhere the talent that Durant has now. Durant couldn't advance his team w/o Westbrook, and looked like a different player compared what we're used to seeing. LeBron led a bunch of scrubs to the 07 Finals

Actually he did advance his team without Westbrook, he lost to the leagues #1 D in the 2nd round when his teammates continued to struggle mightily while he lit it up virtually every night. He did look like a player, he looked like a 6+ APG playmaker who led his teams in all aspects. Reminded me of someone.

I always laugh when I hear that KD struggled without Westbrook this post-season. Really? 31/9/6 with good D is a struggle now?

FlashBolt
09-30-2013, 05:58 PM
LeBron early in his career played with nowhere the talent that Durant has now. Durant couldn't advance his team w/o Westbrook, and looked like a different player compared what we're used to seeing. LeBron led a bunch of scrubs to the 07 Finals

Then you should've rephrased that, it's unfair. And as much as I am a fan of Durant, I must admit he did let a lot of us down.


Actually he did advance his team without Westbrook, he lost to the leagues #1 D in the 2nd round when his teammates continued to struggle mightily while he lit it up virtually every night. He did look like a player, he looked like a 6+ APG playmaker who led his teams in all aspects. Reminded me of someone.

I always laugh when I hear that KD struggled without Westbrook this post-season. Really? 31/9/6 with good D is a struggle now?

Yeah, but he did miss some easy ones against Memphis. There were 2 really close games that Durant should've closed out but was horrific. He even went 1-4 in free throws. Sorry, he played great but for all the hate WB gets about hogging the ball, no one seems to want to blame Durant. I mean first they said WB is a liability, then when he's gone, they have nothing to say when they lose. Surely, OKC would've won if WB was healthy.

WadeCounty
09-30-2013, 06:12 PM
I'm surprised noone put this article up yet http://dimemag.com/2013/09/kevin-durants-contract-gatorade-will-renewed/

Opposite to what the link address says, the article states Gatorade will not renew it's contract with Kevin Durant. I find it funny how Durant backtracked his statement about Wade after the whole contract thing. In another article Wade said he had nothing to do with his contract and that he has no where enough pull to do such a thing

tredigs
09-30-2013, 06:43 PM
Then you should've rephrased that, it's unfair. And as much as I am a fan of Durant, I must admit he did let a lot of us down.



Yeah, but he did miss some easy ones against Memphis. There were 2 really close games that Durant should've closed out but was horrific. He even went 1-4 in free throws. Sorry, he played great but for all the hate WB gets about hogging the ball, no one seems to want to blame Durant. I mean first they said WB is a liability, then when he's gone, they have nothing to say when they lose. Surely, OKC would've won if WB was healthy.

Well, once Memphis realized nobody else on OKC was going to score, they just double teamed KD the whole night and made his teammates prove they could do it. Being that he only had one teammate score 20+ points in one of their games (Martin in game 1 - which OKC won), it was just a matter of time until the series was over.

Only the ignorant who don't watch enough OKC basketball considered Westbrook a liability. He's an essential piece to the team, and losing him after the playoffs had already begun left them no time to reorganize their offense. They really had no shot of making the finals losing him that late, especially against the leagues top D. It was a tougher scenario then Lebron had ever faced quite a bit.

FlashBolt
09-30-2013, 08:45 PM
Then you should've rephrased that, it's unfair. And as much as I am a fan of Durant, I must admit he did let a lot of us down.



Yeah, but he did miss some easy ones against Memphis. There were 2 really close games that Durant should've closed out but was horrific. He even went 1-4 in free throws. Sorry, he played great but for all the hate WB gets about hogging the ball, no one seems to want to blame Durant. I mean first they said WB is a liability, then when he's gone, they have nothing to say when they lose. Surely, OKC would've won if WB was healthy.

Well, once Memphis realized nobody else on OKC was going to score, they just double teamed KD the whole night and made his teammates prove they could do it. Being that he only had one teammate score 20+ points in one of their games (Martin in game 1 - which OKC won), it was just a matter of time until the series was over.

Only the ignorant who don't watch enough OKC basketball considered Westbrook a liability. He's an essential piece to the team, and losing him after the playoffs had already begun left them no time to reorganize their offense. They really had no shot of making the finals losing him that late, especially against the leagues top D. It was a tougher scenario then Lebron had ever faced quite a bit.

Trust me, I agree. I just thought KD would have stepped up far greater. My expectations of him were probably too high. I do consider WB a huge asset, I'm just stating that everyone else believes otherwise. With that being said, there is no excuse for Durant's horrible stretch in the remaining minutes of fourth quarters. 1-4 ft's in closing minutes was disappointing.

Meaze_Gibson
09-30-2013, 11:23 PM
Well, once Memphis realized nobody else on OKC was going to score, they just double teamed KD the whole night and made his teammates prove they could do it. Being that he only had one teammate score 20+ points in one of their games (Martin in game 1 - which OKC won), it was just a matter of time until the series was over.

Only the ignorant who don't watch enough OKC basketball considered Westbrook a liability. He's an essential piece to the team, and losing him after the playoffs had already begun left them no time to reorganize their offense. They really had no shot of making the finals losing him that late, especially against the leagues top D. It was a tougher scenario then Lebron had ever faced quite a bit.
Yo I swear im not trolling you but Durant team without westbrook is not a tougher scenario than Brons. You all forget that not only did lebron lead a team of near scrubs to the finals, He also lead a team of near scrubs, without their starting two guard, Larry hughes. Ibaka and Martin are comparable to the players Lebron played with and both Detroit and Boston were on par defensively to Memphis. Only difference is Lebron still got his issue off while this is the second post season question mark on Durants 4 year post season resume

tredigs
10-01-2013, 01:12 AM
Yo I swear im not trolling you but Durant team without westbrook is not a tougher scenario than Brons. You all forget that not only did lebron lead a team of near scrubs to the finals, He also lead a team of near scrubs, without their starting two guard, Larry hughes. Ibaka and Martin are comparable to the players Lebron played with and both Detroit and Boston were on par defensively to Memphis. Only difference is Lebron still got his issue off while this is the second post season question mark on Durants 4 year post season resume
Larry played in 18 of 20 games and has nowhere near the impact on the team that Westbrook did. There's no comparison here. Also, that Detroit team wasn't the same without Ben Wallace, which is when they finally beat them. I see no question mark here with Durant. Just proof that 1 man won't be beating a very solid Memphis Grizzlies team. Nobody in their right mind had OKC favored in that matchup.