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View Full Version : Which team is making tanking more obvious, the Browns of the NFL or the 76ers?



sunsfan88
09-20-2013, 10:14 PM
Which team is making the fact that their gonna tank this season more obvious?

The 76ers traded away their best player to a team that will likely have a mid round pick then drafted a player who won't even likely play this season. They increased their chances of getting a top pick since they will now have no good player playing for them this coming season and added another 1st round pick in the process. They even followed the Orlando Magic blueprint of hiring a HC late in August as a method of trying to tank harder cause we all know that Orlando got the worst record in the league after doing so. The 2013 NBA draft was weak so they couldn't come away with much other than Noel and MCW and now their placing their eggs in the much better 2014 NBA draft. #teamWIGGINS

The Browns copied the 76ers, traded away their their best player (Trent Richardson) to a team that will likely have a mid round pick. They increased their chances of getting a top pick since they will now have no good player playing for them this coming season and added another 1st round pick in the process. The 2013 NFL draft was weak so they couldn't come away with the franchise QB they wanted and now their placing their eggs in the much better 2014 NBA draft #teamBRIDGEWATER

Both teams had prevoius FOs that made bad moves (with hindsight). Browns traded the world to move up just one draft position to draft Trent Richardson & then drafted a 28 year old rookie in Brandon Weeden in the 1st round who sucks and the 76ers traded Vucevic, Igoudala, Harkless and picks for Bynum. Neither worked out for either team though the moves may have looked good when they were actually made (last summer).

The new FO has to correct all those mistakes.

Should be noted that the Browns current president Joe Banner was with the Philadelphia Eagles for the past season so he should have been alert of what the 76ers are doing.

Both teams have given up on the '13-'14 season before it even began.

Guppyfighter
09-20-2013, 10:24 PM
Trent Richardson was averaging 3.5 yards a carry. He's not ****ing close to their best player. They have Joe Haden, Gordon, and Joe Thomas.

Willis will give them 80 percent of that. Not exacty tanking.

cubs1st
09-20-2013, 10:35 PM
On the other side of that argument, playing Hoyer over Campbell is tanking.

Westbrook36
09-20-2013, 10:52 PM
Trent Richardson was averaging 3.5 yards a carry. He's not ****ing close to their best player. They have Joe Haden, Gordon, and Joe Thomas.

Willis will give them 80 percent of that. Not exacty tanking.

The whole 3.5 yards per carry is overblown, he played on a very meh offense. Not saying he's the next AP, but cut the rookie a break on a terrible offense.

Guppyfighter
09-20-2013, 11:40 PM
The whole 3.5 yards per carry is overblown, he played on a very meh offense. Not saying he's the next AP, but cut the rookie a break on a terrible offense.

Teams didn't really try hard to stop him. He only had eight in the box 17 percent of the time. 25th lowest rate in the league. He didn't scare anybody.

natelpete
09-20-2013, 11:51 PM
I think the votes would be reversed had this taken place in the NFL Forum.

bholly
09-21-2013, 12:03 AM
The 76ers traded away their best player to a team that will likely have a mid round pick then drafted a player who won't even likely play this season. They increased their chances of getting a top pick since they will now have no good player playing for them this coming season and added another 1st round pick in the process. They even followed the Orlando Magic blueprint of hiring a HC late in August as a method of trying to tank harder cause we all know that Orlando got the worst record in the league after doing so. The 2013 NBA draft was weak so they couldn't come away with much other than Noel and MCW and now their placing their eggs in the much better 2014 NBA draft. #teamWIGGINS

How exactly does that work?

Guppyfighter
09-21-2013, 12:12 AM
Magic didn't even tank, they were doing good and then Big Baby Davis and Aaron Affalo missed significant time with major injuries.

And then they traded Redick at the deadline when their season was over.

Sunsfan88 is full of himself.

sunsfan88
09-21-2013, 12:44 AM
The Magic weren't that good even before they traded Reddick. You think they would have been good or even made playoffs even in the East if Davis and Afflalo didn't get hurt?

Anytime Davis or Afflalo are the best players on your team, you know your gonna suck.

sunsfan88
09-21-2013, 12:45 AM
How exactly does that work?

Magic waited til last minute then hired some guy. Philly waited til last minute then hired some guy.

carlthack
09-21-2013, 01:11 AM
I never understood why NBA teams would tank, they still have to rely on ping pong balls falling in their favor. Its not like the NFL where they can guarantee themselves a #1 overall pick.

bholly
09-21-2013, 08:59 AM
Magic waited til last minute then hired some guy. Philly waited til last minute then hired some guy.

I understand what happened, I'm asking why it's 'tanking' to hire a guy 2 months before training camp instead of 3 months before training camp. Are you really saying that makes a meaningful difference to the team's win totals?

jon32
09-21-2013, 09:21 AM
The Browns will be pissed when they realize the player their tanking for plays baskeball

Guppyfighter
09-21-2013, 10:47 AM
The Magic weren't that good even before they traded Reddick. You think they would have been good or even made playoffs even in the East if Davis and Afflalo didn't get hurt?

Anytime Davis or Afflalo are the best players on your team, you know your gonna suck.


They were at 50 percent probability to make the playoffs while they were playing, so it was completely possible. Especially considering who we got as the eight seed.

shep33
09-21-2013, 11:34 AM
I don't have a big deal with teams tanking. Small market teams are at such a disadvantage when it comes to attracting stars. Only way to be good is through the draft... San Antonio is the ultimate example of this.

bholly
09-21-2013, 01:46 PM
The only really interesting part of this whole tanking thing is that people are seemingly outraged (mostly fans of other teams that are in the running for top picks, but still) and speak as if having a goal other than 'win as many games as possible this season' is absolutely morally indefensible. That would be fine if not for the fact that it's universally accepted that there's a point where a team should recognize it can't win a championship and blow it up to rebuild. Blowing it up and rebuilding are, by definition, getting worse in order to try and get better in the future. That is, the difference between 'blowing it up and rebuilding' and 'tanking' is just one of degree - so taking a position of moral absolutes doesn't really make sense. It's all about where you draw the line.

Philadelphia actually make a perfect case for the conversation to happen. For years now people had been saying we should blow it up by moving Iguodala so we could rebuild. I can't count how many times trades were proposed here where Philly trade Iggy to get youth or towards the top of the draft, and nobody had a problem with it. I agreed. As much as I love Iggy, we weren't a championship team, had no ability to build a championship team through FA, and were never going to be bad enough with Iggy to ever draft the kinds of guys we needed. The definition of mediocrity. Everyone was more than fine with us blowing it up in that situation - even when we were a playoff team.
Ownership tried to take a shot with Bynum - that is they took a huge risk to do exactly what people are pretending now is the only honourable thing, ie doing everything you can to win now. It didn't work. They tried exactly what they're 'supposed' to do, but it didn't work out. It's not like they came in from day 1 and said 'we love losing' - they tried to become a contender last season, it just didn't work.
So with Jrue's bigger role last season we ended up back exactly where we'd been for years - not good enough to contend (or even make the playoffs), without the cap room or attractiveness to build through FA, and with a fringe All Star and role players who made us too good to get into a good draft position. We were exactly where we were before, only with Jrue replacing Iggy as the fringe All-Star who can't get us anywhere except the lower-middle of the pack.
So they blew it up. They traded him for a guy who half an hour beforehand was expected to be the #1 pick in the draft, and fills a positional need we haven't had filled for years, and a future draft pick. If we had've done that deal for Iggy at any time in the last 5 years people would've said 'FINALLY!'. But instead they're outraged.

So what's the difference between those two situations? What's the difference between 'tanking' and 'blowing it up'? Where's the line drawn? Is the rule that you have to wait in mediocrity for a certain amount of time before doing it? Do you have to wait until your guy is a certain age before you can trade him, even if it's obvious he isn't going to get you where you want to be? Or is the rule that you can blow it up, you just can't be that much worse?

Where is the line between totally okay rebuilding, and morally awful 'tanking'?

sunsfan88
09-21-2013, 03:43 PM
I understand what happened, I'm asking why it's 'tanking' to hire a guy 2 months before training camp instead of 3 months before training camp. Are you really saying that makes a meaningful difference to the team's win totals?

Don't you think most coaches don't want to be the last one hired and actually want to have a valuable input on the draft and roster changes such as moving Jrue Holliday?

PhillyFaninLA
09-21-2013, 04:13 PM
When you tank in the NFL your teammates are carted off the field, when you tank in the NBA you have a chance to get a better draft pick.

The Browns are trying to find someone they feel is a better fit, RB's are easier to find than most positions, their front office is bad, and the team is just bad...their is a difference between being bad and mismanaged and tanking.

bholly
09-21-2013, 04:43 PM
Don't you think most coaches don't want to be the last one hired and actually want to have a valuable input on the draft and roster changes such as moving Jrue Holliday?

Of course. Every coach wants to have more input on the draft and roster changes. So? The FO's goal isn't to hire a coach who's going to tell them how he wants the roster to be. The FO's goal is to hire a coach who they think best shares their vision for the future and their philosophy and can best execute it. That's half the point of having separate coaches and GMs. The FO had a particular philosophy about how they wanted to proceed - in particular, they wanted to rebuild. You think they should've hurried up and hired a coach just in case the guy they ended up hiring wanted to talk them out of it? Faced with a decision between a) getting someone quickly, just in case he disagrees with their entire vision and wants to try and convince them to do something different, and b) taking their time, going through dozens and dozens of interviews to make sure they get the right guy that's on board with their plan - you're saying the best choice for an FO is a), and if they do something else it's a sign of tanking?

Even regardless of all that, I still don't see how hiring a coach late is tanking. Tanking is about getting less wins. Are you saying a coach wishing he'd have been hired earlier affects their wins and losses? Given the FO are set in their philosophy, and were only ever going to hire someone who'd be on board with moves like the Jrue trade, are you saying the coach's feelings about when he was hired make an additional difference to their record?

pd7631
09-21-2013, 08:02 PM
Which team is making the fact that their gonna tank this season more obvious?

The 76ers traded away their best player to a team that will likely have a mid round pick then drafted a player who won't even likely play this season. They increased their chances of getting a top pick since they will now have no good player playing for them this coming season and added another 1st round pick in the process. They even followed the Orlando Magic blueprint of hiring a HC late in August as a method of trying to tank harder cause we all know that Orlando got the worst record in the league after doing so. The 2013 NBA draft was weak so they couldn't come away with much other than Noel and MCW and now their placing their eggs in the much better 2014 NBA draft. #teamWIGGINS

The Browns copied the 76ers, traded away their their best player (Trent Richardson) to a team that will likely have a mid round pick. They increased their chances of getting a top pick since they will now have no good player playing for them this coming season and added another 1st round pick in the process. The 2013 NFL draft was weak so they couldn't come away with the franchise QB they wanted and now their placing their eggs in the much better 2014 NBA draft #teamBRIDGEWATER

Both teams had prevoius FOs that made bad moves (with hindsight). Browns traded the world to move up just one draft position to draft Trent Richardson & then drafted a 28 year old rookie in Brandon Weeden in the 1st round who sucks and the 76ers traded Vucevic, Igoudala, Harkless and picks for Bynum. Neither worked out for either team though the moves may have looked good when they were actually made (last summer).

The new FO has to correct all those mistakes.

Should be noted that the Browns current president Joe Banner was with the Philadelphia Eagles for the past season so he should have been alert of what the 76ers are doing.

Both teams have given up on the '13-'14 season before it even began.



Why are you so obsessed with the Sixers and their rebuilding strategy? Seriously, how many threads/posts have you made to complain about them "tanking"? And how exactly does a team tank at this stage? It's not like the team is going to go out and lose on purpose, which is what I thought the definition of tanking was. If they lose it'll be because of a lack of talent and experience, not for lack of effort.

Anyone with a brain would be able to see that what the Sixers are doing is smart. And you seem to imply that the only reason we drafted Noel is because he won't be available. Okay, so now we're tanking because we took the player that many projected to be the #1 pick and could easily be the best player from this past draft.

And your bolded comment about Joe Banner is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. This thread is such a joke, and so are you.

Guppyfighter
09-21-2013, 08:39 PM
Sunsfan88 was in the NFL forum saying the Chargers have more history than the Raiders.

PhillyFaninLA
09-22-2013, 08:59 AM
Sunsfan88 was in the NFL forum saying the Chargers have more history than the Raiders.

If that 88 was the year he was born..then he's 25...in that time it is true....but if you know the history of the game you know its not close

Daze9900
09-22-2013, 10:04 AM
I'm going cleveland browns. Sixers you can kind of legitimize this because the NBA is set up for you to fail if you don't aquire a superstar either in the draft or in free agency. If you suck or don't live in a market where players want to live you won't get a superstar unless they are either past their prime and its some kind of hometown thing. The draft is no sure thing for basketball but it's a start. This team tried to build around Andrew Bynum and it didn't work so this is legitimate rebuild. Browns however traded away their whole offense and their qb is injured and you know right away they are going for the number one pick either to get the QB they want or get more picks. Clear tank job but it's worse in football because there is always parity in football if you get your team to play hard and have the right pieces you have a chance on any given sunday.

Goose17
09-22-2013, 11:21 AM
Only way to be good is through the draft... San Antonio is the ultimate example of this.

OKC is also a good example of a small market team building through the draft.

Guppyfighter
09-22-2013, 05:26 PM
I'm going cleveland browns. Sixers you can kind of legitimize this because the NBA is set up for you to fail if you don't aquire a superstar either in the draft or in free agency. If you suck or don't live in a market where players want to live you won't get a superstar unless they are either past their prime and its some kind of hometown thing. The draft is no sure thing for basketball but it's a start. This team tried to build around Andrew Bynum and it didn't work so this is legitimate rebuild. Browns however traded away their whole offense and their qb is injured and you know right away they are going for the number one pick either to get the QB they want or get more picks. Clear tank job but it's worse in football because there is always parity in football if you get your team to play hard and have the right pieces you have a chance on any given sunday.


Another person showing he has no idea what he is talking about.


They traded their runningback for a first rounder and then got a runningback who is going to just as good as him. Plus, they won today, on the road.

****ing idiots. Jesus christ.

JEDean89
09-23-2013, 12:16 AM
plenty of teams have gotten good through the draft. miami basically drafted wade, lebron and bosh by just drafting wade. the thunder, the bulls, the spurs, and some others. still i think the 76ers are a disgrace to basketball, same with the Kings, the Raptors, the celtics and all the other teams who think their fans deserve a lost season just to have a 25% chance at the top pick and considering only Timmy D has won a chip for the team that drafted him #1, whats the ****ing point. Lebron, Rose, Oden, Wall, Griffin, Irving, Howard so many guys you would be thrilled to draft, yet none of them won a chip for the teams that drafted them. I hate how my Nuggets, who contend every year, are less rewarded then the Kings, who take lottery picks and turn them into scrubs. The Kings are probably the worst run team in Sports, the 76ers won't be far behind. I mean they traded Vucevic, Harkless and Iggy for Bynum. They traded an allstar, for a 215 pound C with a torn ACL and a future pick. They could have had Holiday, Turner, Iggy, Young, Vucevic, with a Harkless, Hawes, Young bench. That is a contender, maybe a piece away from winning big. I just hate watching these teams without a clue tank seasons so that the best talent goes to the worst run teams. Wiggins would probably be a scrub on the Kings.

sunsfan88
09-23-2013, 03:24 AM
Sunsfan88 was in the NFL forum saying the Chargers have more history than the Raiders.
And you said the Raiders have a better future than SD. The Raiders don't have a better future than any professional team regardless of which sport.

Guppyfighter
09-23-2013, 03:25 AM
And you said the Raiders have a better future than SD. The Raiders don't have a better future than any professional team regardless of which sport.

It's sunsfan world now, we are all just living in it.

sunsfan88
09-23-2013, 02:42 PM
It's sunsfan world now, we are all just living in it.

You are finally coming around, I like it.