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Mile High Champ
09-20-2013, 08:28 AM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 6th year I have done this on PSD and it always brings some great discussion and debate. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron James and the Miami Heat are back to back NBA champions after an exciting 7 game series win over the Spurs. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 5 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

Due to some people complaining that the rule was not written for the PG poll; in order to be eligible for these rankings, players must of played in 10 or more games last season. Thank you.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


2013 Off-Season PSD C Rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Dwight Howard
3) Marc Gasol
4) Joakim Noah
5) Roy Hibbert
6) Al Horford
7) Brook Lopez
8) Tyson Chandler
9) Chris Bosh
10) DeMarcus Cousins



2012 Off-Season PSD C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Kevin Garnett
4) Marc Gasol
5) Tim Duncan
6) Tyson Chandler
7) Al Horford
8) Al Jefferson
9) Roy Hibbert
10) DeMarcus Cousins

2011 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Tim Duncan
4) Andrew Bogut
5) Al Horford
6) Marc Gasol
7) Tyson Chandler
8) Joakim Noah
9) Nene
10) Al Jefferson

2010 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Andrew Bogut
4) Brook Lopez
5) Andrew Bynum
6) Marc Gasol
7) Joakim Noah
8) Al Horford
9) Al Jefferson
10) Chris Kaman

2009 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Andrea Bargnani
6) Andris Biedrins
7) Emeka Okafor
8) Nene
9) Brook Lopez
10) Andrew Bynum

2008 Off-Season C Rankings:

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Andrew Bynum
5) Chris Kaman
6) Tyson Chandler
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Marcus Camby
9) Jermaine O'neal
10) Andrew Bogut

Mile High Champ
09-20-2013, 08:30 AM
Cousins or Jefferson here. Sanders, Pekovic and Asik are just below both those guys for me.

Mile High Champ
09-20-2013, 09:46 AM
Get those votes in!

xxplayerxx23
09-20-2013, 01:21 PM
Al Jeff or sanders hmm

Eagles4Lyfe
09-20-2013, 03:21 PM
Woah no love for Cousins?
Damn

nycericanguy
09-20-2013, 03:29 PM
I'm not impressed by a center that shoots 46% and plays sub par defense and can't even have his team in the playoff conversation.

I went Asik, solid player, plays within himself, efficient, and good defender.

chitownredbulls
09-20-2013, 03:44 PM
Cousins here but after this season, he's going to be higher on the list...dudes gnna be beast....still think he should be higher on this list..

JasonJohnHorn
09-20-2013, 04:01 PM
I went with Al Jefferson, but there are a few legit options here. I'm not sure what to do with DMC because of his techs and attitude and low FG%... he could be the best center in the league if he was more mature, but as it stands... if the guys on this list were all going to perform next season as well as they performed last season, but no better, then I would go with Al Jefferson. He is one over very few players who can give you 20/10 nightly if you give him the minutes and the ball. There are other parts of the game, and respect a few other options, but that's where I'm going with this.

5ass
09-20-2013, 04:18 PM
Im going with Sanders here, he was the second best player on that team closely behind ilyasova and they won 38 games. Sanders is the best center left, and will come out top 5 next year.

Jumba
09-20-2013, 07:12 PM
Jefferson. Best footwork in the league in the paint. Can make anyone jump and make them look like his *****.

Sportfan
09-20-2013, 07:26 PM
Sanders D is CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!! Argubaly the best post defender in the NBA and he's got great rebounding too. His offense is ok but it's getting better and his rebounding/D is just too good. His ceiling is a rich man's Tyson!!!

ManRam
09-20-2013, 07:42 PM
Between Sanders and Cousins. Cousins might be a better all-around player, or at least the potential, but I'd MUCH rather have Sanders' defense on my team. I went with him.

Al Jefferson is a terrible pick. His lack of defense essentially negates anything he does on offense. The Jazz were a significantly better team with him on the bench then off of it.

greg_ory_2005
09-20-2013, 08:27 PM
I gotta go with Sanders. He stepped up huge this year, probably the biggest reason the Bucks made the playoffs. He brings elite type defense and rebounding, and his offense is getting better as well

sunsfan88
09-20-2013, 09:53 PM
How did Brook Lopez get higher than Cousins?

I think Cousins and Sanders both should have been on here higher but since I like defense more than offense from a center, I'm going with Sanders.

mrblisterdundee
09-20-2013, 10:34 PM
Even as a head case, DeMarcus Cousins is extremely talented – and bad at defense. Larry Sanders is really good at defense, but I think he's one of those guys who's better off as a power forward but being forced to play center because of his team's weakness at the position.

5ass
09-20-2013, 10:45 PM
How did Brook Lopez get higher than Cousins?

I think Cousins and Sanders both should have been on here higher but since I like defense more than offense from a center, I'm going with Sanders.

you are underrating lopez.

mrblisterdundee
09-20-2013, 11:00 PM
you are underrating lopez.

I agree. Cousins is a better rebounder, but Lopez is better offensively and defensively.

KnicksR4Real
09-20-2013, 11:32 PM
Leggo im drunk af Tyson chandler!!!!

Sportfan
09-21-2013, 08:05 AM
gooooooooooo sanders at least when he gets ejected/fined it's for basketball reasons unlike DMC

Chronz
09-21-2013, 10:31 AM
Nene, Al or Sanders

greg_ory_2005
09-21-2013, 11:00 AM
I'd much rather have Sanders than DMC. Brings elite defense and doesn't play the game like an idiot

Durant is hype
09-21-2013, 11:08 AM
Production over potential,Greg Monroe! Yeah his last season wasn't great by his standards,but I'm going by his previous two seasons where he absolutely beasted. The best center available during the 2012-2013 had to be Larry Saunders.

Iggz53
09-21-2013, 09:00 PM
Cousins doesn't belong anywhere near the Top 10. He is still a dumb decision-maker and inefficient, high-volume scorer. And those that watched him play last year can attest to how atrocious he was defensively. This is a guy who puts up numbers at the expense of his team and just doesn't seem to get it. If I want to build a contender based on last year's play, I'm taking Pekovic and Asik 10 times out of 10 before taking Cousins.

Having said that, it was ultimately between Pekovic and Asik for me. But as elite as Asik is as a defensive anchor, it wasn't influential enough to Houston's team defense to overshadow Pekovic's offensive contributions (who also improved defensively). I went Nikola here.

b@llhog24
09-21-2013, 09:24 PM
How did Brook Lopez get higher than Cousins?

I think Cousins and Sanders both should have been on here higher but since I like defense more than offense from a center, I'm going with Sanders.

You've gotta be ****ing kidding me.

nycericanguy
09-22-2013, 10:19 AM
How did Brook Lopez get higher than Cousins?

I think Cousins and Sanders both should have been on here higher but since I like defense more than offense from a center, I'm going with Sanders.

On what planet is Cousins better than Lopez? What exactly is Cousins really good at?

Horrible defender, horrible decision making, shoots 46% as a freakin center! He rebounds, but really at 7'0 270 on a horrible shooting, fast paced team with no other rebounders, he'd have trouble not grabbing 10rpg just by accident.

D-Leethal
09-22-2013, 12:57 PM
I think Cousins has the highest potential peak and the most diversified skillset but I'm not sure he is more impactful at this point than a couple others. I'm voting him anyway.

D-Leethal
09-22-2013, 12:58 PM
I think a healthy Bogut who can play 30+ MPG is definitely the guy here though.

nycericanguy
09-22-2013, 01:27 PM
I think Cousins has the highest potential peak and the most diversified skillset but I'm not sure he is more impactful at this point than a couple others. I'm voting him anyway.

Kings have been a mid 20's win team with or without Cousins... he hasn't had much, if any impact at all.

Yea the physical tools to be great are there, but Eddy Curry had those tools too... right now he's not a very good player. Just a guy getting a ton of minutes and shots on a horrible team.

I don't see how you can put him above, Asik, Nik, or Monroe.

D-Leethal
09-22-2013, 02:17 PM
Kings have been a mid 20's win team with or without Cousins... he hasn't had much, if any impact at all.

Yea the physical tools to be great are there, but Eddy Curry had those tools too... right now he's not a very good player. Just a guy getting a ton of minutes and shots on a horrible team.

I don't see how you can put him above, Asik, Nik, or Monroe.

IDK who I would technically want on my team, a lot of factors would play into that, but my personal preference is to give the nod to the guy who can drop 40-20 on his best night, the guy who can be fed in the post (also hit 3s) and run plays for and run an offense through, over the dirty work double double guys. Cousins FG% takes a hit because he is asked to do far more than simply put back dunks and layups. He is asked to be a go to guy, he is asked to try and manufacture a bucket on the majority of his teams possessions, and he garners by far the most attention from the defense. Its easy to drop 10 points at a 60% clip when thats all your asked to do. When your asked to drop 20? That becomes way more difficult, especially when you have the scrubfest surrounding you like he does in Sac.

b@llhog24
09-22-2013, 02:52 PM
IDK who I would technically want on my team, a lot of factors would play into that, but my personal preference is to give the nod to the guy who can drop 40-20 on his best night, the guy who can be fed in the post (also hit 3s) and run plays for and run an offense through, over the dirty work double double guys. Cousins FG% takes a hit because he is asked to do far more than simply put back dunks and layups. He is asked to be a go to guy, he is asked to try and manufacture a bucket on the majority of his teams possessions, and he garners by far the most attention from the defense. Its easy to drop 10 points at a 60% clip when thats all your asked to do. When your asked to drop 20? That becomes way more difficult, especially when you have the scrubfest surrounding you like he does in Sac.

Normally i just agree to disagree with you on the value of shot creators, but Cousins is not that good at doing what you think he does. Earlier you were downplaying Bosh for Chandler saying that Chandler basically plays the C better than Bosh. Well Cousins and Asik are just poor mans version of the two.

D-Leethal
09-22-2013, 03:12 PM
Normally i just agree to disagree with you on the value of shot creators, but Cousins is not that good at doing what you think he does. Earlier you were downplaying Bosh for Chandler saying that Chandler basically plays the C better than Bosh. Well Cousins and Asik are just poor mans version of the two.

Cousins can post, Cousins has good post moves and footwork, Cousins can rebound, Cousins has legit Center size, Cousins is a legit C.

If Bosh was 6'11 270lbs, played C his whole career, grabbed 10 boards and played in the post, he would have gotten my vote a very long time ago.

At this point, who I would take on my squad out of the remaining dudes really would depend on who else is on my team. If I am lacking with legitimate scoring options, I'm not taking Asik. If I have my scorers in place, I'm taking Asik/Sanders.

Having the ability to run plays for you, to run an offense through you, to manufacture points is something that should be held in higher regard on this forum. Instead everyone just looks at your efficiency, without acknowledging that the guys who are most efficient have the most limited skills and couldn't score on a fly if the fly was in defensive position and the coach would never put them in a position to score on said fly because said coach knows thats something said efficient player is nowhere near capable of doing.

b@llhog24
09-22-2013, 03:21 PM
Cousins can post, Cousins has good post moves and footwork,

In the other thread, you were making a distinction between effectiveness and overall skillset. So I'm asking, what good is all that bag of tricks is he's making all of his shots well below the league average? And its not like he's playing against Mutumbo out there. He's face off against guys like Perkins, Hawes, Robin Lopez and JJ Hickson for **** sake. I'd give credit to his ability to shoulder a massive usage, but he's sooooooooo far below average that I'm not sure where to place it.



Cousins can rebound, Cousins has legit Center size, Cousins is a legit C.

He's normally rebounding his own miss though.


If Bosh was 6'11 270lbs, played C his whole career, grabbed 10 boards and played in the post, he would have gotten my vote a very long time ago.

Yea, but chances is Bosh would've went first if that was the case.

Sportfan
09-22-2013, 06:11 PM
I think a healthy Bogut who can play 30+ MPG is definitely the guy here though.

lolz. Sanders is a better defender and rebounder than Bogut which are supposed to be his (skills)

Chronz
09-22-2013, 09:53 PM
Cousins is too ****** a defender to be anywhere near this list. Bosh is a better defender than him ffs. I dont buy the argument that he should be shouldering this much of the offense anyways.

Guppyfighter
09-23-2013, 04:38 AM
The votes for cousins don't make any sense.

It's Sanders or Bogut.

Guppyfighter
09-23-2013, 04:39 AM
lolz. Sanders is a better defender and rebounder than Bogut which are supposed to be his (skills)

In Bogut's healthy year he was the best defensive player. He led the league in charge and blocks.


The Bucks were the third best defensive team with him on the floor and and the 29 worst without him. Bogut being healthy is better than Sanders.

NYKnickFanatic
09-23-2013, 09:10 AM
Woah no love for Cousins?
Damn

As Cousins leads in voting. ;)

*Yes I know you posted this before anyone really voted.

nycericanguy
09-23-2013, 10:23 AM
cant believe DMC is ahead...

This is not supposed to be based on Potential, DMC isn't very good right now. you can make a case for pretty much everyone else here ahead of DMC

Kashmir13579
09-23-2013, 10:54 AM
Cousins is an unsalvageable cancer and i say that with confidence.

Shammyguy3
09-23-2013, 11:47 AM
I would take almost every center left on the board ahead of Cousins.
Asik/Pekovic/Monroe/Sanders/Jefferson, and if Bogut can play in 75% of the games then give me him too.

SugeKnight
09-23-2013, 12:21 PM
I would vote Bogut, but I'm on mobile. He was great in the playoffs. Warriors don't beat the Nuggets without him.

He's healthy and in a contract year. I'm expecting him to be a top 5 center this year.

nycericanguy
09-23-2013, 01:45 PM
I would take almost every center left on the board ahead of Cousins.
Asik/Pekovic/Monroe/Sanders/Jefferson, and if Bogut can play in 75% of the games then give me him too.

agreed, I think AL is the only one I'd take Cousins over.

cvietti23
09-24-2013, 12:56 AM
How can u not vote for cuz? He has had nobody to give him the ball, nobody knows how to run a pick and roll on the kings, every time cousins scores, it's usually because he is so good...he could draw a triple team because everyone else sucked around him. He has the best post moves in the nba. He is a much underrated defender considering charges count as turnovers and he is awesome at stepping over and taking charges...he can shoot the ball inside and out... How do you pick one dimensional players over a multi-dimensional player? Asik is a great defender. That's all he is. Sanders, same for him. Bogut is good but he still got worked by Boogie all year. Demarcus is a far better all around center than those 3. Criticize me all you want, but I doubt you guys watch cuz as much as we do. Same can also be said about how little i watch the sanders and asik, but if there was a redraft of just centers, I'd bet Cousins is still taken higher than them. He'd probably go top 5 and i bet DMC is #1 on that list next year. He is THAT good. Oh also, he's never had a good coach lol Isaiah Thomas said when he practiced with the summer league team that he was pushed to work harder in that practice than he ever has since being drafted. With a real coach, DMC will be the best center in the league.

Shammyguy3
09-24-2013, 11:12 AM
How can u not vote for cuz? He has had nobody to give him the ball, nobody knows how to run a pick and roll on the kings, every time cousins scores, it's usually because he is so good...he could draw a triple team because everyone else sucked around him. He has the best post moves in the nba. He is a much underrated defender considering charges count as turnovers and he is awesome at stepping over and taking charges...he can shoot the ball inside and out... How do you pick one dimensional players over a multi-dimensional player? Asik is a great defender. That's all he is. Sanders, same for him. Bogut is good but he still got worked by Boogie all year. Demarcus is a far better all around center than those 3. Criticize me all you want, but I doubt you guys watch cuz as much as we do. Same can also be said about how little i watch the sanders and asik, but if there was a redraft of just centers, I'd bet Cousins is still taken higher than them. He'd probably go top 5 and i bet DMC is #1 on that list next year. He is THAT good. Oh also, he's never had a good coach lol Isaiah Thomas said when he practiced with the summer league team that he was pushed to work harder in that practice than he ever has since being drafted. With a real coach, DMC will be the best center in the league.

In the main-forum Redraft game, the draft just finished up. The following centers were taken ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, and in order
Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, Nikola Pekovic, Greg Monroe, Omer Asik, Marcin Gortat...

if you include Garnett as a center, then put him between Gasol & Hibbert. Pau Gasol, if a center, also ahead of him. Sanders was taken one spot behind Cousins.

Cousins has great talent - but he has yet to display it on the court. Chalk it up to things like his teammates/coaches, whatever you'd like --- but he still has yet to prove he's any semblance of an AVERAGE offensive player in terms of efficiency, and he's a poor defender as well. He's not an adept passer like a Gasol/Noah, he's not efficient like a Lopez, Pekovic, or Duncan. He's not a defensive anchor like Hibbert/Gasol/Noah/Asik/Sanders/Duncan/Howard.

He's just not that good of a player. Yet at least.

Durant is hype
09-24-2013, 03:17 PM
Cousins can post, Cousins has good post moves and footwork, Cousins can rebound, Cousins has legit Center size, Cousins is a legit C.


Cousins is skilled and all,but the main option can't shoot 50.2% TS for a team to win lots of games. Possessions aren't free,each one counts.


Having the ability to run plays for you, to run an offense through you, to manufacture points is something that should be held in higher regard on this forum. Instead everyone just looks at your efficiency, without acknowledging that the guys who are most efficient have the most limited skills and couldn't score on a fly if the fly was in defensive position and the coach would never put them in a position to score on said fly because said coach knows thats something said efficient player is nowhere near capable of doing.

Or the number option can be a high usage player and be somewhat efficient?

Iggz53
09-24-2013, 04:15 PM
I have absolutely no ****ing clue how Cousins won. At this point, he's an example of someone who'll hurt your team more than help, in really every aspect of the game.

mp3
09-24-2013, 04:54 PM
If Monta Ellis was a center, he would be Demarcus Cousins

cvietti23
09-24-2013, 04:59 PM
How can u not vote for cuz? He has had nobody to give him the ball, nobody knows how to run a pick and roll on the kings, every time cousins scores, it's usually because he is so good...he could draw a triple team because everyone else sucked around him. He has the best post moves in the nba. He is a much underrated defender considering charges count as turnovers and he is awesome at stepping over and taking charges...he can shoot the ball inside and out... How do you pick one dimensional players over a multi-dimensional player? Asik is a great defender. That's all he is. Sanders, same for him. Bogut is good but he still got worked by Boogie all year. Demarcus is a far better all around center than those 3. Criticize me all you want, but I doubt you guys watch cuz as much as we do. Same can also be said about how little i watch the sanders and asik, but if there was a redraft of just centers, I'd bet Cousins is still taken higher than them. He'd probably go top 5 and i bet DMC is #1 on that list next year. He is THAT good. Oh also, he's never had a good coach lol Isaiah Thomas said when he practiced with the summer league team that he was pushed to work harder in that practice than he ever has since being drafted. With a real coach, DMC will be the best center in the league.

In the main-forum Redraft game, the draft just finished up. The following centers were taken ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, and in order
Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, Nikola Pekovic, Greg Monroe, Omer Asik, Marcin Gortat...

if you include Garnett as a center, then put him between Gasol & Hibbert. Pau Gasol, if a center, also ahead of him. Sanders was taken one spot behind Cousins.

Cousins has great talent - but he has yet to display it on the court. Chalk it up to things like his teammates/coaches, whatever you'd like --- but he still has yet to prove he's any semblance of an AVERAGE offensive player in terms of efficiency, and he's a poor defender as well. He's not an adept passer like a Gasol/Noah, he's not efficient like a Lopez, Pekovic, or Duncan. He's not a defensive anchor like Hibbert/Gasol/Noah/Asik/Sanders/Duncan/Howard.

He's just not that good of a player. Yet at least.

I know u guys don't think highty of him, but I bet Cuz is ranked higher around the league than lots of those guys. Have you ever sat and watched a game of that team last year? Lol Demarcus had to put the team on his shoulders. Because he is all they had. They never ran an offense, they never played team defense, nobody was ever held accountable. Just like if you take any of those centers who are "better" than DMC, and you put them in his shoes in that organization, they would look a hell of a lot worse. Brook Lopez, Joakim Noah, Larry Sanders, Omer Asik, Nikola Pekovic, or Al Jefferson will never and could never be a teams building point. No team would choose building a team around any of those guys.

Chronz
09-24-2013, 05:40 PM
I know u guys don't think highty of him, but I bet Cuz is ranked higher around the league than lots of those guys. Have you ever sat and watched a game of that team last year? Lol Demarcus had to put the team on his shoulders. Because he is all they had. They never ran an offense, they never played team defense, nobody was ever held accountable. Just like if you take any of those centers who are "better" than DMC, and you put them in his shoes in that organization, they would look a hell of a lot worse. Brook Lopez, Joakim Noah, Larry Sanders, Omer Asik, Nikola Pekovic, or Al Jefferson will never and could never be a teams building point. No team would choose building a team around any of those guys.

Al Jefferson has already proven capable of putting up superior production as the centerpiece of horrendous teams, he then showed capable of approximating that production for a playoff caliber team. Why would you give Cousins credit for going beyond his skillset?

You seem to think just because you have poor talent around you that it gives you a green light to chuck to your hearts content. All the players you mentioned would make the Kings better at this point than Cousins has.

AntiG
09-24-2013, 05:48 PM
Demarcus should have gone right after Hibbert, and Lopez should have been right after him.

Chronz
09-24-2013, 05:53 PM
Demarcus should have gone right after Hibbert, and Lopez should have been right after him.

Cuz he has a cool sounding name?

Kashmir13579
09-24-2013, 11:12 PM
Cousins is skilled and all,but the main option can't shoot 50.2% TS for a team to win lots of games. Possessions aren't free,each one counts.



Or the number option can be a high usage player and be somewhat efficient?

The only reason he argues this is because 'Melo has low efficiency compared to his peers. D-Leethal bases his core basketball ethics on the Knicks roster that year. Its a sickness.

NYKnickFanatic
09-25-2013, 09:36 AM
Why is this poll still open?