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View Full Version : Tracy McGrady "regrets" leaving Toronto in 2000 free agency



phoenix_bladen
09-15-2013, 03:21 AM
http://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2013/09/13/tracy_mcgrady_wishes_he_had_stayed_in_toronto_fesc huk.html

Yahoo -

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tracy-mcgrady-regrets-wish-had-stayed-toronto-181501027--nba.html

DreamShaker
09-15-2013, 04:08 AM
I would too if hindsight showed Grant Hill barely playing with me. And then Yao barely playing with him.

5ass
09-15-2013, 05:08 AM
If only Hill stayed healthy...

bearadonisdna
09-15-2013, 05:13 AM
It must have been a weirder time back then
but why hell would he go chasing after grant hill when he was playing with his cousin in toronto who was better than grant hill.

JNA17
09-15-2013, 06:23 AM
He should.

How the hell do you leave a chance to become a great duo in the NBA that could win for many years to come, AND THAT partner being your own cousin? Seriously that's messed up.

Kleonidas
09-15-2013, 07:49 AM
He should.

How the hell do you leave a chance to become a great duo in the NBA that could win for many years to come, AND THAT partner being your own cousin? Seriously that's messed up.

He also forced his way out, when he had a chance to team with Dwight Howard. Choosing to link up with Yao Ming instead. He never won a playoff series in Houston. How'd that workout for him? He's the only one to blame for being impatience and making wrong choices. I take schadenfreude from his situation knowing he made his own bed. That was the only good, coming from Ray Allen hitting "the shot". T-Mac will never be a winner.

king4day
09-15-2013, 08:43 AM
It must have been a weirder time back then
but why hell would he go chasing after grant hill when he was playing with his cousin in toronto who was better than grant hill.

Carter was good but Hill was Jordan-esque. I don't know if the two players are that comparable.

scissors
09-15-2013, 09:21 AM
It must have been a weirder time back then
but why hell would he go chasing after grant hill when he was playing with his cousin in toronto who was better than grant hill.

Hill was better than VC at the time. And was especially a better player to match with T-mac.

R. Johnson#3
09-15-2013, 09:41 AM
Too bad your ego got in the way, T-Mac.

Mile High Champ
09-15-2013, 09:57 AM
Hill was better than VC at the time. And was especially a better player to match with T-mac.

Very debatable. Hill was already showing injury concerns at this time. VC was emerging as one of the leagues brightest stars.

The one thing I take away most from this article is the maturity that T-Mac has obviously developed. He mentioned that his agents and friends were encouraging him to bolt for places like Chicago and Orlando due to endorsement opportunities and nice weather. Yet he had a running mate in Toronto with Vince Carter and a great veteran core already established that could of contended for years to come. The pieces were already there. It was all about developing T-Mac and Carter at that point. I applaud T-Mac for admitting he made a mistake because many people can attest that if he stayed, it could of been something very special in Toronto. I know many players have already insisted that the Raps would of won at least one championship had he stuck around.

FlashBolt
09-15-2013, 12:34 PM
Hill was better than VC at the time. And was especially a better player to match with T-mac.

Hill was not better than VC at that time. You must've confused the years up. No one knew Hill was going to be injured so soon. Heck, they probably would've won rings together. I just think the chemistry of VC and T-Mac being cousins and all would drive the both of them.

Chronz
09-15-2013, 12:48 PM
Very debatable. Hill was already showing injury concerns at this time. VC was emerging as one of the leagues brightest stars.
If healthy, there was no doubt Hill was seen as the superior player. He was ahead of him in the All-NBA Selections and in the MVP race, its not just the subjective awards either, he was quite easily more productive than Vince as well.


The one thing I take away most from this article is the maturity that T-Mac has obviously developed. He mentioned that his agents and friends were encouraging him to bolt for places like Chicago and Orlando due to endorsement opportunities and nice weather. Yet he had a running mate in Toronto with Vince Carter and a great veteran core already established that could of contended for years to come. The pieces were already there. It was all about developing T-Mac and Carter at that point. I applaud T-Mac for admitting he made a mistake because many people can attest that if he stayed, it could of been something very special in Toronto. I know many players have already insisted that the Raps would of won at least one championship had he stuck around.

It may have been a mistake in retrospect but there is absolutely nothing wrong with bolting Toronto to pair up with Grant Hill (+the possibility of Tim Duncan) AND play close to home. What I want to know is, do we just ignore the years Vince struggled with injuries? That didn't work out with his 2 other running mates but Vince is suppose to be pristine? I guess that doesn't matter because the 2 would have had more than enough runs together to get a crack at the Finals. Imagine that, Isiah built a winner in Toronto, if only Tmac had stayed.



He also forced his way out, when he had a chance to team with Dwight Howard. Choosing to link up with Yao Ming instead. He never won a playoff series in Houston. How'd that workout for him? He's the only one to blame for being impatience and making wrong choices. I take schadenfreude from his situation knowing he made his own bed. That was the only good, coming from Ray Allen hitting "the shot". T-Mac will never be a winner.
Why would he wait for Dwight Howard? Do you even know Tmac's career and why he left Orlando?

barreleffact
09-15-2013, 02:21 PM
Idk what FO decisions made him leave Orl either, but if we are purely speaking hindsight, leaving Orl was a bigger fail than leaving Tor. At least when he left Tor he stayed in the weaker conference. If his major complaint was losing in the first round, why go to a conference where ALL playoff teams are good when if he stayed, they were drafting the number 1 pick after a team HE led to that position.

JNA17
09-15-2013, 02:23 PM
He also forced his way out, when he had a chance to team with Dwight Howard. Choosing to link up with Yao Ming instead. He never won a playoff series in Houston. How'd that workout for him? He's the only one to blame for being impatience and making wrong choices. I take schadenfreude from his situation knowing he made his own bed. That was the only good, coming from Ray Allen hitting "the shot". T-Mac will never be a winner.

I forgot about that.

Lebron leaving his home state is one thing, but T-Mac leaving his cousin and the Magic's Dwight Howard is another lol.

slaker619
09-15-2013, 02:49 PM
I think he did good leaving cause did more damage while on houston

DreamShaker
09-16-2013, 12:30 AM
The Duncan thing Chronz mentioned is an underrated factor.Duncan was super close to going to Orlando.

kobe4thewinbang
09-16-2013, 07:30 AM
I regret him having the back of an 80 year old construction worker.

Shame how far T-MAC could've gone without injuries...

Big Zo
09-16-2013, 07:51 AM
I'm glad he didn't sign with the Heat. I remember him saying something about Pat Riley's practices being too "grueling." Was awesome seeing him, and his wandering eye have to congratulate Heat players after his team lost.

bartron_44
09-16-2013, 08:55 AM
I don't know if Toronto would have won any rings, as neither one excelled at playing defense...but the Raps would have made it out of the first round when VC and T-Mac were in the prime of their career.

In 2001/02 we would have had at least most of the following:


Mark Jackson/Alvin Williams/Childs/Bogues
Carter/Christie/Curry
McGrady/Peterson
Oakley/JYD
A.Davis/Willis/Montross/N'Diaye

tr3ymill3r
09-16-2013, 09:26 AM
TMac needs to stop bringing up hindsight and pointing the finger at everyone else but himself. Let us not forget the series with the Pistons, up 3-1. "It finally feels nice to be in the second round." Only to lose 3 straight to the eventual champs.

Heatcheck
09-16-2013, 12:17 PM
It must have been a weirder time back then
but why hell would he go chasing after grant hill when he was playing with his cousin in toronto who was better than grant hill.

at what?

Chronz
09-16-2013, 12:42 PM
I'm glad he didn't sign with the Heat. I remember him saying something about Pat Riley's practices being too "grueling." Was awesome seeing him, and his wandering eye have to congratulate Heat players after his team lost.
Lol eddie jones

Chronz
09-16-2013, 12:43 PM
I don't know if Toronto would have won any rings, as neither one excelled at playing defense...but the Raps would have made it out of the first round when VC and T-Mac were in the prime of their career.

In 2001/02 we would have had at least most of the following:


Mark Jackson/Alvin Williams/Childs/Bogues
Carter/Christie/Curry
McGrady/Peterson
Oakley/JYD
A.Davis/Willis/Montross/N'Diaye
Tmac excelled at defense

Big Zo
09-16-2013, 01:14 PM
Lol eddie jones

What about Eddie Jones?

Chronz
09-16-2013, 02:44 PM
Lol eddie jones

What about Eddie Jones?
Thats what they wound up settling for during those years they were losing alot

Big Zo
09-16-2013, 05:07 PM
Thats what they wound up settling for during those years they were losing alot

That would have been a good team if Zo didn't go down with the kidney disease. Zo, Hardaway, Eddie Jones, and Brian Grant. If T-Mac would have joined them, they could have gone far.

kenzo400
09-16-2013, 05:25 PM
I don't know if Toronto would have won any rings, as neither one excelled at playing defense...but the Raps would have made it out of the first round when VC and T-Mac were in the prime of their career.

In 2001/02 we would have had at least most of the following:


Mark Jackson/Alvin Williams/Childs/Bogues
Carter/Christie/Curry
McGrady/Peterson
Oakley/JYD
A.Davis/Willis/Montross/N'Diaye

They already made it to the second round. They lost game 7 against the sixers (by one point) This was when Mcgrady was averaging 7 points a game. TMAC and VC in the prime of their careers definitely would have made it to the finals.

ILLUSIONIST^248
09-17-2013, 01:35 PM
http://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2013/09/13/tracy_mcgrady_wishes_he_had_stayed_in_toronto_fesc huk.html

Yahoo -

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tracy-mcgrady-regrets-wish-had-stayed-toronto-181501027--nba.html

I tried explaining to Chronz that Tmac made lots of mistakes, and he said that he made nothing but great ones.

Chronz
09-17-2013, 01:44 PM
I tried explaining to Chronz that Tmac made lots of mistakes, and he said that he made nothing but great ones.
Most likely another case of delusion . Read the article, focus on the word RESTROSPECT

Heatcheck
09-17-2013, 02:29 PM
They already made it to the second round. They lost game 7 against the sixers (by one point) This was when Mcgrady was averaging 7 points a game. TMAC and VC in the prime of their careers definitely would have made it to the finals.

not with that old, garbage *** team, I could just imagine those 40 yr olds in the front court trying to keep up with the nets back then. you got a 38 yr old Oakley, a slow *** C turned pf who shoots 40% in Davis, one of the most useless bigmen ever in eric montross, a bunch of also-rans like childs, bogues, and Williams, and a 36 yr old mark Jackson going to the finals.

TheMightyHumph
09-18-2013, 12:47 PM
We all have regrets

ThuglifeJ
09-18-2013, 02:55 PM
He should.

How the hell do you leave a chance to become a great duo in the NBA that could win for many years to come, AND THAT partner being your own cousin? Seriously that's messed up.

I agree.

wing duos weren't 'in' back then though

tr3ymill3r
09-18-2013, 03:10 PM
Would he not have got hurt in Toronto like Orlando and then Houston? Let's turn this into a Canadian VS US Healthcare thread!!!

Six-8-TheWizard
09-18-2013, 03:25 PM
.

Six-8-TheWizard
09-18-2013, 03:26 PM
Would he not have got hurt in Toronto like Orlando and then Houston? Let's turn this into a Canadian VS US Healthcare thread!!!

Why not just a general Canada vs US thread?

C_Mund
09-18-2013, 03:32 PM
not with that old, garbage *** team, I could just imagine those 40 yr olds in the front court trying to keep up with the nets back then. you got a 38 yr old Oakley, a slow *** C turned pf who shoots 40% in Davis, one of the most useless bigmen ever in eric montross, a bunch of also-rans like childs, bogues, and Williams, and a 36 yr old mark Jackson going to the finals.

We're talking revisionist history here. Do you think if they stuck it out for a few years the surrounding team would have been the exact same?

colinskik
09-18-2013, 04:00 PM
Him and VC woulda been a nice duo, but still not enough IMO to do real damage. Although, on second thought, those Raps teams with VC were scary and gave the Knicks some problems, but not enough to beat us. Could TMac have put them over the edge? Who knows.

A healthy Hill and TMac I think is slightly better than TMac and VC. Then if Duncan had signed in ORL, that would have been the original Big 3 and coulda won the chip.

ThuglifeJ
09-18-2013, 06:11 PM
Him and VC woulda been a nice duo, but still not enough IMO to do real damage. Although, on second thought, those Raps teams with VC were scary and gave the Knicks some problems, but not enough to beat us. Could TMac have put them over the edge? Who knows.

A healthy Hill and TMac I think is slightly better than TMac and VC. Then if Duncan had signed in ORL, that would have been the original Big 3 and coulda won the chip.
Except those Raptors DID beat the Knicks to advance..

mjt20mik
09-18-2013, 06:34 PM
Him and VC woulda been a nice duo, but still not enough IMO to do real damage. Although, on second thought, those Raps teams with VC were scary and gave the Knicks some problems, but not enough to beat us. Could TMac have put them over the edge? Who knows.

A healthy Hill and TMac I think is slightly better than TMac and VC. Then if Duncan had signed in ORL, that would have been the original Big 3 and coulda won the chip.

We did beat you guys.. lol

PurpleLynch
09-18-2013, 07:59 PM
It would be great to see them both playing in the same team. Highlight reel all nights.

HoopsMachine
09-19-2013, 06:43 AM
There was an interview I read a long time ago where Kobe stated that if TMac stayed with the Raptors, they likely would have contended with them (Lakers 00-04 Squad) for quite a few championships.

ThuglifeJ
09-19-2013, 09:43 PM
We did beat you guys.. lol

+50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000

hhahahahaha delusional Knicks fans

ThuglifeJ
09-19-2013, 09:53 PM
Why are some posters saying Grant Hill and Tmac would have been better because Grant Hill was 'Jordan-esque' when that's literally one of the main auras around prime Vince Carter was that he was supposed to be the next Jordan.

Hill on the Pistons was in unbelievable player, but so was Vince Carter... just because Hill's career got cut short while in his prime isnt an excuse to say he's better than so and so. So what if Vince's came down with career changing injury (like Hill) at the end of the 2001 season? Then he'd have gone out with only memories of prime Vince and have way less criticism that he received after those years. We'd be saying 'Vince could have been the GOAT if he didnt get injured' 'Vince in could do things that even Jordan couldnt do'. If you see what Im getting at. Just because Hill went down in his prime, doesnt mean he's better than Vince

pay respect to the players who have fought through hardships and critics and held good play there whole careers, even with injuries.

FlashBolt
09-19-2013, 09:54 PM
There was an interview I read a long time ago where Kobe stated that if TMac stayed with the Raptors, they likely would have contended with them (Lakers 00-04 Squad) for quite a few championships.

That Raptors team would not stop Shaq.. Shaq would've eaten Antonio Davis and Charles Oakley.... Plus, we don't know how T-Mac would've turned out playing with Vince. It wasn't until Orlando that he became a legitimate elite player.

Chronz
09-19-2013, 10:01 PM
Why are some posters saying Grant Hill and Tmac would have been better because Grant Hill was 'Jordan-esque' when that's literally one of the main auras around prime Vince Carter was that he was supposed to be the next Jordan.

Hill on the Pistons was in unbelievable player, but so was Vince Carter... just because Hill's career got cut short while in his prime isnt an excuse to say he's better than so and so. So what if Vince's came down with career changing injury (like Hill) at the end of the 2001 season? Then he'd have gone out with only memories of prime Vince and have way less criticism that he received after those years. We'd be saying 'Vince could have been the GOAT if he didnt get injured' 'Vince in could do things that even Jordan couldnt do'. If you see what Im getting at. Just because Hill went down in his prime, doesnt mean he's better than Vince

pay respect to the players who have fought through hardships and critics and held good play there whole careers, even with injuries.
Because hill was better before he went down, all subjective and objective evidence points to this

Chronz
09-19-2013, 10:04 PM
There was an interview I read a long time ago where Kobe stated that if TMac stayed with the Raptors, they likely would have contended with them (Lakers 00-04 Squad) for quite a few championships.

That Raptors team would not stop Shaq.. Shaq would've eaten Antonio Davis and Charles Oakley.... Plus, we don't know how T-Mac would've turned out playing with Vince. It wasn't until Orlando that he became a legitimate elite player.
Why would we doubt a great player achieving his potential. He just as easily could have developed into a better player alongside vince, so its a moot point

But yes, they get killed by shaq

ThuglifeJ
09-19-2013, 10:09 PM
That Raptors team would not stop Shaq.. Shaq would've eaten Antonio Davis and Charles Oakley.... Plus, we don't know how T-Mac would've turned out playing with Vince. It wasn't until Orlando that he became a legitimate elite player.

Well no one was stopping Shaq from the East. Still Kobe's right imo, they would have been contending in the finals instead of the Sixers or whoever. Plus when Shaq left the Lakers, Tmac and Vince were still in their primes and arguably better players. A litttle less athletic but they were probably peak all around players in 2005/6. They could shoot lights out at that point, were smarter, better leaders and both became incredible passers as well. I dont think theyd have a shot against the Lakers, but who knows what pieces the Raptors would have pulled together to help Vince/Tmac. It would have been obvious a Big is what they needed since Tmac and Vince could run offesnses and Tmac can run point well.

FlashBolt
09-19-2013, 10:09 PM
Why would we doubt a great player achieving his potential. He just as easily could have developed into a better player alongside vince, so its a moot point

But yes, they get killed by shaq

Ehhh, I don't think he would've blossomed to that degree. He would've been great but with Vince there, I don't think he would have become the TMac of Orlando. No one expected TMac to be better than Vince at that point. Shaq would kill them anyways, so Kobe was just trying to be nice to TMac since TMac said Kobe is the toughest to defend.

FlashBolt
09-19-2013, 10:12 PM
Well no one was stopping Shaq from the East. Still Kobe's right imo, they would have been contending in the finals instead of the Sixers or whoever. Plus when Shaq left the Lakers, Tmac and Vince were still in their primes and arguably better players. A litttle less athletic but they were probably peak all around players in 2005/6. They could shoot lights out at that point, were smarter, better leaders and both became incredible passers as well. I dont think theyd have a shot against the Lakers, but who knows what pieces the Raptors would have pulled together to help Vince/Tmac. It would have been obvious a Big is what they needed since Tmac and Vince could run offesnses and Tmac can run point well.

Great argument but Shaq would destroy them because that's exactly what happened every time Shaq went up against low quality centers. TMac and Vince would put a fight against Bryant and the other guard, but ultimately Shaq would just manhandle them all. I'm not sure if you remember Shaq in his good days but he doesn't stop himself. You have to stop Shaq and quite honestly, no one in the Raptors could stop him. You can stop Tmac and Vince but Shaq is a different animal.

ThuglifeJ
09-19-2013, 10:18 PM
Because hill was better before he went down, all subjective and objective evidence points to this

switch Carter and Hill's paths of their careers. Had Carter gone down after 01 or whatever, when everyone was in awe of him, while Hill had little nagging injuries (vs career changing) throughout his whole career and had an underwhelming second half of his career. Carter would have the injury excuse topic. We would have seen what he was doing in 2000 and then based everything off that.

No one can look from different perspectives. I dont think Hill was really better than Vince. It just seems that way because weve watched Vinces career slow down. Not to mention Hill has this professional good guy image much like Ray Allen going for him that makes everyone want to argue for him

ThuglifeJ
09-19-2013, 10:20 PM
Great argument but Shaq would destroy them because that's exactly what happened every time Shaq went up against low quality centers. TMac and Vince would put a fight against Bryant and the other guard, but ultimately Shaq would just manhandle them all. I'm not sure if you remember Shaq in his good days but he doesn't stop himself. You have to stop Shaq and quite honestly, no one in the Raptors could stop him. You can stop Tmac and Vince but Shaq is a different animal.

Wanna read my post again? I never said the Raptors would beat Shaq on the Lakers. I said no one could beat Shaq at that point.. saying theyd be contending means theyd be in the Finals, not winning it.

I said once Shaq left the Lakers, Tmac and VC were still in their primes....so theyd have a chance to win it all at that point

FlashBolt
09-19-2013, 11:21 PM
Wanna read my post again? I never said the Raptors would beat Shaq on the Lakers. I said no one could beat Shaq at that point.. saying theyd be contending means theyd be in the Finals, not winning it.

I said once Shaq left the Lakers, Tmac and VC were still in their primes....so theyd have a chance to win it all at that point

Sorry, when Kobe stated contend, I stated an actual legitimate battle for the championship. Toronto would not contend because it would've been a good ole broom sweeping. Would they beat Jason Kidd and the Nets? Would they beat the Sixers? Would they beat the Pacers and Pistons? I don't think those two could. Two scorers on one team, I don't know if it could work. They certainly were not contending for anything.. Lakers would just dismantle them.

kidfury
09-19-2013, 11:58 PM
Prime vc and tmac would be studs we would all agree. if they had continued playing together would they have played less minutes and likely face less wear and tear on their bodies, would their prime yrs been extended? tmac did play some heavy minutes in orlando trying to make up for the absence of hill. Maybe vc and tmac would have able to share the workload and in the long run been able to stay healthy for a long time.

ThuglifeJ
09-20-2013, 12:05 AM
Sorry, when Kobe stated contend, I stated an actual legitimate battle for the championship. Toronto would not contend because it would've been a good ole broom sweeping. Would they beat Jason Kidd and the Nets? Would they beat the Sixers? Would they beat the Pacers and Pistons? I don't think those two could. Two scorers on one team, I don't know if it could work. They certainly were not contending for anything.. Lakers would just dismantle them.

They'd probably lose in 4-5 games each time to the Lakers w/ Shaq. But after Shaq left the Lakers, as I've tried to get to you 100 times, the Raptors could have definitely snagged a title with Tmac and Vince. They wouldn't win against the Lakers but they would be in the Finals those years. And yes they'd beat the Sixers.. Raptors without Tmac were just about as good as the AI Sixers, they were 1 point away from knocking them out in 2001. With Tmac they are better. Nets probably couldn't contain both Vince and Tmac. Neither could the Pacers. Pistons would probably be their hardest matchup because of Pistons Defense.
and were talking Vince and Tmac in their primes. They arent just two scorers, they are the best scorers in the game alongside Kobe and AI. Both were capable defenders they just didnt motivate themselves to do so.

FlashBolt
09-20-2013, 01:15 AM
They'd probably lose in 4-5 games each time to the Lakers w/ Shaq. But after Shaq left the Lakers, as I've tried to get to you 100 times, the Raptors could have definitely snagged a title with Tmac and Vince. They wouldn't win against the Lakers but they would be in the Finals those years. And yes they'd beat the Sixers.. Raptors without Tmac were just about as good as the AI Sixers, they were 1 point away from knocking them out in 2001. With Tmac they are better. Nets probably couldn't contain both Vince and Tmac. Neither could the Pacers. Pistons would probably be their hardest matchup because of Pistons Defense.
and were talking Vince and Tmac in their primes. They arent just two scorers, they are the best scorers in the game alongside Kobe and AI. Both were capable defenders they just didnt motivate themselves to do so.

Are you sure T-Mac and Vince can beat Pop's Spurs? I don't think so. And saying they could've meshed is absurd. Two scorers, their stats are heavily influenced by the fact that they had more opportunities. I don't think you would be getting 32 PPG TMAC and 28 PPG VC. Again, it's hypothetical but let's not forget that asides from those two, the Raptors squad completely sucked.

Chronz
09-20-2013, 04:46 PM
Ehhh, I don't think he would've blossomed to that degree. He would've been great but with Vince there, I don't think he would have become the TMac of Orlando. No one expected TMac to be better than Vince at that point. Shaq would kill them anyways, so Kobe was just trying to be nice to TMac since TMac said Kobe is the toughest to defend.
Thats all good and all but its not set in stone either way is my point. And I disagree with your opinion that nobody could have expected it, Im sure it was a minority opinion but I do recall some whispers about it. Granted Vince was the featured player but Tmac was still the younger prospect with tantalizing potential and impressive per possession rates, who was flying all over the court defensively. When the Raptors first made it onto the playoff scene, it wasn't Vince who looked primed for stardom, it was his lil cousin. Those playoffs are what made the Raptors promise Tmac a greater role next year, if he just reupped.




switch Carter and Hill's paths of their careers. Had Carter gone down after 01 or whatever, when everyone was in awe of him, while Hill had little nagging injuries (vs career changing) throughout his whole career and had an underwhelming second half of his career. Carter would have the injury excuse topic. We would have seen what he was doing in 2000 and then based everything off that.
I agree with that, but that doesn't change the fact that Hill was objectively better at that point.


No one can look from different perspectives. I dont think Hill was really better than Vince.
We all have a right to our opinion, its just the way you defend it I have a problem with... watch your next line.


It just seems that way because weve watched Vinces career slow down.
See now this just ignore all objective and subjective evidence that has been argued in this thread. It has nothing to do with how they slowed down because that doesn't change the level of play they displayed at that stage.


Not to mention Hill has this professional good guy image much like Ray Allen going for him that makes everyone want to argue for him
Not really man, not at this point in his career. Detroit was turning on him with every game he missed because of his injuries, people were questioning his heart in the media IIRC. VC was the new shining beacon with the NC pedigree. VC didn't start getting dogged on until he chose to attend a graduation ceremony and started getting hurt himself. Its only later, now that they've aged, that they are getting respect again.

JordansBulls
10-10-2013, 12:26 AM
I wish he came to the Bulls instead.

kenzo400
10-10-2013, 06:02 PM
not with that old, garbage *** team, I could just imagine those 40 yr olds in the front court trying to keep up with the nets back then. you got a 38 yr old Oakley, a slow *** C turned pf who shoots 40% in Davis, one of the most useless bigmen ever in eric montross, a bunch of also-rans like childs, bogues, and Williams, and a 36 yr old mark Jackson going to the finals.

I realize that i'm replying to a three week old post, but I just have to respond to this. You obviously have not seen the Raptors play during that time. Those veterans played great at that time. They picked up all the garbage points, played tough inside. Even Mcgrady said himself that it was an amazing situation and because of the rest of the team, he thinks they could have contended. Because they did all the dirty work and all Tmac and Vince had to do was play their game.

Chronz
10-10-2013, 06:33 PM
I realize that i'm replying to a three week old post, but I just have to respond to this. You obviously have not seen the Raptors play during that time. Those veterans played great at that time. They picked up all the garbage points, played tough inside. Even Mcgrady said himself that it was an amazing situation and because of the rest of the team, he thinks they could have contended. Because they did all the dirty work and all Tmac and Vince had to do was play their game.

Do you recall why they traded Doug Christie? Did that come once they realized Tmac wasn't coming back or before that? I never understood the motives behind that trade, I felt he could have helped the Raps regardless.

kenzo400
10-13-2013, 12:22 PM
Do you recall why they traded Doug Christie? Did that come once they realized Tmac wasn't coming back or before that? I never understood the motives behind that trade, I felt he could have helped the Raps regardless.

That is a good question. I can't actually remember why we traded him. Even when TMAC left we still had VC and we weren't planning on losing.

MrfadeawayJB
10-13-2013, 11:01 PM
He's just saying this because he is about to be honored in Orlando their home opener and he wants to be cheered, not booed

Chronz
10-13-2013, 11:28 PM
He's just saying this because he is about to be honored in Orlando their home opener and he wants to be cheered, not booed
Im pretty sure him saying he should have never left Toronto for Orlando will get him booed.

kenzo400
10-14-2013, 12:06 AM
Im pretty sure him saying he should have never left Toronto for Orlando will get him booed.

I don't remember us booing TMAC, except for a few years after he left. Ever since he went to the Rockets, Raptors fans have been largely indifferent.

Chronz
10-14-2013, 12:14 PM
I don't remember us booing TMAC, except for a few years after he left. Ever since he went to the Rockets, Raptors fans have been largely indifferent.

Whos talking about Rap fans?

Tony_Starks
10-14-2013, 03:36 PM
Had he stayed they could've possibly got a chip eventually when they both hit their primes. But then again I don't think playing with VC would've allowed him to grow into dominant TMac. He'd have to hear that "won as a sidekick" bs......