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View Full Version : Does Kobe Bryant's stature help or hurt the Lakers' free agency fortunes?



mrblisterdundee
09-11-2013, 10:12 PM
There was an interesting ESPN article about how dominant Kobe Bryant is in the Lakers franchise, and how it can irk other marquee free agents (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/62707/the-lakers-wont-win-free-agency). The Lakers are likely looking to rebuild through free agency unless they perform bad enough to reach the lottery, which I doubt Bryant wants to accept.
Does Bryant's stature hurt or help the Lakers' chances of getting a new franchise player in free agency?
A guy like LeBron James is a better player, and he's proven an easier teammate to be around and still win championships with. He deserves a lot of credit for that.
I think the Lakers need a younger player who can accept being second when he comes in but will be old enough to take over once Bryant is gone in a couple or so years – I think Bryant, regardless of what he said in the past, will be around at least that long. That means someone no older than the mid-20s, say a Paul George, Kevin Durant, James Harden or – I really hate to say this – Damian Lillard.

topdog
09-11-2013, 10:21 PM
I think that this is a good question and hope that this thread doesn't get derailed with the usual nonsense.

I think it hurts and the whole Dwight Howard ordeal is a good example of how players don't want to go to the Lakers and be told to sit down and shut up by a past-prime Kobe. Kobe isn't one of those players who is willing to reduce his game as he gets older and continues to demand to be the alpha dog. It's one of the great things about him - that egotistical fire that drives him, but it also becomes a liability for the franchise and team building as he gets older and the team needs a new star (who, like Howard, is sure to want a timeline on when they will be given the reigns to the team).

FlashBolt
09-11-2013, 10:23 PM
LAL should not get rid of Kobe and let him retire on his own terms. It's the least they can do for him. This is nothing but disrespect. Kobe may have problems with teammates, but what he means to the franchise? C'mon, it's a no brainer. Trading Kobe or letting him go is just absurd.

topdog
09-11-2013, 10:31 PM
LAL should not get rid of Kobe and let him retire on his own terms. It's the least they can do for him. This is nothing but disrespect. Kobe may have problems with teammates, but what he means to the franchise? C'mon, it's a no brainer. Trading Kobe or letting him go is just absurd.

There is nothing in the OP as I read it saying anything close to what you are speculating. This is not a "should the Lakers get rid of Kobe" thread. It simply is a question of whether he helps or hurts free agency recruiting at this point in his career.

bucketss
09-11-2013, 10:34 PM
i don't think durant or harden willl accept being 2nd, durant already stated he was tired of being second, if he leaves okc it would probably be to get away from a ball hogg(westbrook) not join another one.

FlashBolt
09-11-2013, 10:35 PM
There is nothing in the OP as I read it saying anything close to what you are speculating. This is not a "should the Lakers get rid of Kobe" thread. It simply is a question of whether he helps or hurts free agency recruiting at this point in his career.

It does answer the OP's question. LAL should not even think of removing Kobe for the reasons I mentioned. Thus eliminates the "hurt" part and answers the question. I do agree, Kobe may be tough to play for because of his personality. However, LAL needs to understand that this is Kobe we're talking about. Would the Bulls have asked MJ to retire after all he done for them?

DallasTrilla23
09-11-2013, 10:35 PM
It hurts them. The Lakers are gonna be Kobe's team no matter how long he is there or who joins the team. Lebron could join and it would still be Kobe's team.But it's not like he's wrong for that, he was responsible for 5 championships.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2013, 11:04 PM
at this stage, it hurts. He is too competitive to take a Robin role at this point, even if that is the only possible way he ever wins tons of games again.

Bostonjorge
09-11-2013, 11:13 PM
Can't see how it hurts but it all depends who else is on the lakers is what really matters. If lakers are the for sure team or favorites then kobe being on the team will not be a deal breaker.

How many free agents went to Cleveland to play with James or Minnesota to play with KG or Philly with AI. Players like to go to winners cause everyone loves a winner.

If a big time free agent does make a move to LA then others will follow to be led by a proven winner in kobe.

bucketss
09-11-2013, 11:16 PM
Can't see how it hurts but it all depends who else is on the lakers is what really matters. If lakers are the for sure team or favorites then kobe being on the team will not be a deal breaker.

How many free agents went to Cleveland to play with James or Minnesota to play with KG or Philly with AI. Players like to go to winners cause everyone loves a winner.

If a big time free agent does make a move to LA then others will follow to be led by a proven winner in kobe.

has more to do with kg/lebron playing for cleve/minny and kobe playing in los angeles.

ldawg
09-11-2013, 11:21 PM
It does answer the OP's question. LAL should not even think of removing Kobe for the reasons I mentioned. Thus eliminates the "hurt" part and answers the question. I do agree, Kobe may be tough to play for because of his personality. However, LAL needs to understand that this is Kobe we're talking about. Would the Bulls have asked MJ to retire after all he done for them? Thats the reason the team broke up. Bull did not want to pay to keep the team together. They felt Jordan was done.

ldawg
09-11-2013, 11:41 PM
IMO it hurts a bit but mostly because of his age and the new CBA. Kobe is not an attractive player at this point because he is 35 and fresh off a major injury. That in return makes Lakers not attractive for free agents in hope of winning a ring. Right now because Nash is 40 and kobe is 35 that an old back court. If Kobe was younger even with his attitude some would have no problem because you were lock to be a top team. Thats no longer the case the new sexy is Miami. Why no one is flocking to Houston, NY, Spurs, etc? So because they dont view him like that anymore why put up with a alpha thing?

Slug3
09-12-2013, 12:06 AM
Can't see how it hurts but it all depends who else is on the lakers is what really matters. If lakers are the for sure team or favorites then kobe being on the team will not be a deal breaker.

How many free agents went to Cleveland to play with James or Minnesota to play with KG or Philly with AI. Players like to go to winners cause everyone loves a winner.

If a big time free agent does make a move to LA then others will follow to be led by a proven winner in kobe.

Let's not forget the Lakers front office is run by new people. Not like they have the same people there as before.

Bostonjorge
09-12-2013, 12:36 AM
If kobe gets lets say love then I bet top players will try to make there way to the lakers. Also good vets as well. Kobe just needs pieces then kobe and the lakers are the most desirable place to play.

If bosh went to clevland more players would of followed and Nash to Minnesota the same. Chris Paul was better in New Orleans but now players want to play on his team because he has other pieces.

This is only brought up because a washed up Howard left LA. Howard wasn't a superstar player anyways.

topdog
09-12-2013, 01:25 AM
It does answer the OP's question. LAL should not even think of removing Kobe for the reasons I mentioned. Thus eliminates the "hurt" part and answers the question. I do agree, Kobe may be tough to play for because of his personality. However, LAL needs to understand that this is Kobe we're talking about. Would the Bulls have asked MJ to retire after all he done for them?

Again, nothing in the OP about "should the Lakers get rid of Kobe." My opinion as far as that goes is that Kobe should retire a Laker (unless of course he is unreasonable with salary demands). That is not the topic however and going down that road leads to the inevitable pitfall of homers and haters taking over the thread.

Honestly, I think that LA's best shot at improvement is through trades and/or draft picks (as odd as that sounds in regard to the Lakers) because Kobe already seems to have a pecking order in his mind of 1)Kobe 2)Pau 3)Whoever signs on.

jerellh528
09-12-2013, 01:33 AM
Hurts the weak minded ones who think they know it all. Helps the ones seeking greatness and who can learn from an nba legend and still top 5 player last yr. he has so much valuable knowledge and experience he can offer. Older ego guys like Lebron, melo and Dwight it would hurt, but a young moldable and eager players like Irving or Westbrook, rose it would help. And then they can take over when he retire in a yr or 3.

hornetsfansydne
09-12-2013, 02:04 AM
If kobe gets lets say love then I bet top players will try to make there way to the lakers. Also good vets as well. Kobe just needs pieces then kobe and the lakers are the most desirable place to play.

If bosh went to clevland more players would of followed and Nash to Minnesota the same. Chris Paul was better in New Orleans but now players want to play on his team because he has other pieces.

This is only brought up because a washed up Howard left LA. Howard wasn't a superstar player anyways.

lolwut?

Howard was a superstar, he just had an unfortunate situation last season coming back from injury and a coach whose system doesn't utilise his low post presence

Tony_Starks
09-12-2013, 02:17 AM
Doesn't hurt you just have to get players that have heart. There's plenty of young players that still regard Kobe as their favorite player in the league and would love to come to LA, in particular Cali kids.

PurpleLynch
09-12-2013, 06:12 AM
It's Kobe's nature,he want to be the Alpha option for the Lakers. But he's not stupid,I think that if he recognizes a good player he'll be more team focused(like the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 championships with Gasol). They need to get a really good player and with a strong mind,not that sissy of Howard.

JDMVP
09-12-2013, 06:50 AM
It really depends on the player who wants to play with him. People forget Dwight Howard didnt come in LA cause he wanted to but he was traded there. The Magic Traded him there and not to Brooklyn(where he publicly reported to want to play for).

Any of these stars would wanna play for the Lakers. Who doesn't?

I think the question that we really should be asking is are any of these stars willing to take those risks playing under the bright lights and playing with KOBE.

Hawkeye15
09-12-2013, 08:58 AM
It really depends on the player who wants to play with him. People forget Dwight Howard didnt come in LA cause he wanted to but he was traded there. The Magic Traded him there and not to Brooklyn(where he publicly reported to want to play for).

Any of these stars would wanna play for the Lakers. Who doesn't?

I think the question that we really should be asking is are any of these stars willing to take those risks playing under the bright lights and playing with KOBE.

that is the point of the thread. And this stage, Kobe is a negative for an incoming star. Kobe will never give up his alpha status, even if it means turning a younger, better player away at this point.

torocan
09-12-2013, 09:03 AM
It's not Kobe's stature that hurts the Lakers. Kobe being a superstar is a plus.

However, Kobe's personality and massive salary hurts the Lakers. Being competitive is good, being domineering and sometimes abusive works in very few workplaces unless you are literally the best of the best, and that window is closing for Kobe.

Hopefully Kobe learns to adjust along with his age, otherwise his last years in the NBA will be an injustice to a man of his abilities.

beliges
09-12-2013, 12:11 PM
don't think kobe needs to take a step down. He's still.one of the 5 best players in the league. Lakers just need to bring in some young talent that can run and defend in todays league. With the right roster there's no doubt kobe can lead the team.to another title. However with the lakers current roster, there's no way they can compete with the stacked teams like Miami or OKC.

Trueblue2
09-12-2013, 01:21 PM
LAL should not get rid of Kobe and let him retire on his own terms. It's the least they can do for him. This is nothing but disrespect. Kobe may have problems with teammates, but what he means to the franchise? C'mon, it's a no brainer. Trading Kobe or letting him go is just absurd.

Does kobe not owe it to the lakers to be accomodating to other players when they have a chance of setting up for future success.

ManRam
09-12-2013, 02:40 PM
Not sure it's either. If the Lakers were contenders and Kobe was there I think FAs would be eager to join up. But now that they aren't contenders I don't think Kobe really is a difference maker if we're talking about a veteran player who can actually help (not these young guys who are looking to revive their careers). Kobe doesn't make up for the fact that the Lakers are not in a good situation. He might help a little, but it's not enough to overcome the team and especially their short-term cap situation.

Tony_Starks
09-12-2013, 03:06 PM
The notion that Kobe needs to scale it down is ridiculous. He's proven his entire career he can play his way and still incorporate stars and win chips. It just takes putting the right talent with him.

Once you prove to be a player Kobe can trust he's more than willing to incorporate you. Ask Gasol, LO, Bynum, MWP,Fish. Better yet ask superstar CP3 if Kobe scares away other stars. He was talking about going to the union when Stern shot down the trade. Ask Steve Nash, who took less money to come to LA before they had Dwight or Antoni.

How quickly they forget....

Chronz
09-12-2013, 07:13 PM
Ask Steve Nash, who took less money to come to LA before they had Dwight or Antoni.


I knew it wasn’t gonna be the same. I felt like I was going to try something new, and that I was going to adapt — and to accept that, and embrace it. I think it’d be nice to find a middle ground where he does his thing but the ball still can move for great parts of the game. Hopefully we can find that this season. But I knew it wasn’t going to be the same. When you play with Kobe Bryant, the ball is gonna be with him most of the time.

Thoughts on Nash reflecting on his season with LA. . .

Bruno
09-12-2013, 10:10 PM
it really depends on the IQ, age and priorities of the free agent. love him or hate him- he's old. if you're ego is too massive to deal with him until he retires, then you don't deserve to inherit the kingdom and the 3 billion dollars theyre getting from time warner cable which will be used for payroll. simple as that.

a decision much more forgiving for a 23 or 24 year old than it is for a guy in his late 20's who will be in his 30's by the time Kobe hangs em up.

Bruno
09-12-2013, 10:12 PM
and i think it helps from rookie-26 year olds and hurts for 27-30 year old who wana win and be the man NOW.

lakersiznumber1
09-12-2013, 11:07 PM
There was an interesting ESPN article about how dominant Kobe Bryant is in the Lakers franchise, and how it can irk other marquee free agents (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/62707/the-lakers-wont-win-free-agency). The Lakers are likely looking to rebuild through free agency unless they perform bad enough to reach the lottery, which I doubt Bryant wants to accept.
Does Bryant's stature hurt or help the Lakers' chances of getting a new franchise player in free agency?
A guy like LeBron James is a better player, and he's proven an easier teammate to be around and still win championships with. He deserves a lot of credit for that.
I think the Lakers need a younger player who can accept being second when he comes in but will be old enough to take over once Bryant is gone in a couple or so years I think Bryant, regardless of what he said in the past, will be around at least that long. That means someone no older than the mid-20s, say a Paul George, Kevin Durant, James Harden or I really hate to say this Damian Lillard.


kobe got a bad rep because of coward no one was saying this last year. Its a shame that kobe is getting blame for everything when its truly jim and mitch fault.

Dade County
09-12-2013, 11:11 PM
It hurts them. The Lakers are gonna be Kobe's team no matter how long he is there or who joins the team. Lebron could join and it would still be Kobe's team.

Wrong try again...



But it's not like he's wrong for that, he was responsible for 5 championships.

He was... really he was?

bearadonisdna
09-13-2013, 12:07 AM
all far as help, stature yes, tenure no.

lvlheaded
09-13-2013, 01:02 AM
The problem isn't Kobe's statue, the problem is Kobe the person. No front line star is going to LA to be past prime Kobe's sidekick and Kobe is never going to agree to pass the torch, not until he is good and ready to retire.

Until he retires, I think the lakers are gonna Kobe's team and Kobe's team alone.

Bostonjorge
09-13-2013, 01:06 AM
Next year free agency is going to answer this question when the best of the best make there way to play along side the black mamba.

Tony_Starks
09-13-2013, 03:18 AM
Thoughts on Nash reflecting on his season with LA. . .

That's not exactly a scathing criticism. Sounds more like he went into the situation with his eyes open and hopes they can have more balance this season.

I'm pretty sure he recognizes had he been around last season with any type of regularity he may have been involved more....

Tony_Starks
09-13-2013, 03:19 AM
Next year free agency is going to answer this question when the best of the best make there way to play along side the black mamba.

Bingo.

( not sure about the best of the best but still )

sammyvine
09-13-2013, 06:07 AM
how can one of the best/popular players hurt the lakers:confused:

FOBolous
09-13-2013, 06:41 AM
If kobe gets lets say love then I bet top players will try to make there way to the lakers. Also good vets as well. Kobe just needs pieces then kobe and the lakers are the most desirable place to play.

If bosh went to clevland more players would of followed and Nash to Minnesota the same. Chris Paul was better in New Orleans but now players want to play on his team because he has other pieces.

This is only brought up because a washed up Howard left LA. Howard wasn't a superstar player anyways.

:confused:

in his so called "down year" where he's coming off of a major surgery and had no chemistry with his teammates...he led the league in rebounding and blocks while being the the top 5 among all Centers in points per game and led all Centers in FG%...yup he's DEFINITELY washed up and isn't a superstar anymore *sarcasm*

Iron24th
09-13-2013, 08:34 AM
:confused:

in his so called "down year" where he's coming off of a major surgery and had no chemistry with his teammates...he led the league in rebounding and blocks while being the the top 5 among all Centers in points per game and led all Centers in FG%...yup he's DEFINITELY washed up and isn't a superstar anymore *sarcasm*

lol!

Next year he will not have post moves cause he never had,and will not be a good FT shooter cause he never was, Harden will probably not stop the flow of the game to pass it to Dwight to make him happy like Kobe did,then he will be a cry baby cause he always was, get ready for it, he will not change your franchise (in a good way) like you think he will.

lakerfan85
09-13-2013, 08:50 AM
So what free agent has turned down an offer from the Lakers other than Dwight? If Phil Jackson was hired would Dwight have left?

lakerfan85
09-13-2013, 08:51 AM
Wrong try again...



He was... really he was?

You're right he didn't play a part in any of those championships at all..

topdog
09-13-2013, 10:48 AM
lol!

Next year he will not have post moves cause he never had,and will not be a good FT shooter cause he never was, Harden will probably not stop the flow of the game to pass it to Dwight to make him happy like Kobe did,then he will be a cry baby cause he always was, get ready for it, he will not change your franchise (in a good way) like you think he will.

No one said Dwight doesn't have deficiencies, but to say he is not a superstar or an impact player is just ridiculous. Let's not forget that he was coming back from back surgery either.

beliges
09-13-2013, 12:27 PM
Thoughts on Nash reflecting on his season with LA. . .

No surprises there. Its Kobe. You're not going to get as much ball movement as you would on a team without a superstar. However, you put a good team around Kobe, and that style will win consistently.

Sly Guy
09-13-2013, 12:36 PM
kobe is the ultimate competitor, with not only his opponents, but his teammates as well. I think this characteristic works against the lakers franchise as kobe's not the type to take a backseat to anyone.

Iron24th
09-13-2013, 04:43 PM
No one said Dwight doesn't have deficiencies, but to say he is not a superstar or an impact player is just ridiculous. Let's not forget that he was coming back from back surgery either.

I didn't bash his health, he handled it pretty well coming from this type of major surgery, I was talking about his lack of skills and leadership, and sometimes effort which has nothing to do with his health.

mrblisterdundee
09-13-2013, 05:00 PM
I voted yes, because Kobe Bryant, if anything, knows how to adapt. Although an older franchise player wouldn't find a very friendly Bryant making way, I think he'll know how to properly incorporate a younger player who can officially take over when he retires. I just keep hoping that isn't Damian Lillard.


You're right he didn't play a part in any of those championships at all..

I don't think that's what he was saying. The teams Bryant was on – not Bryant himself – were responsible for five championships, with Bryant a big part of it all.
During those first three championships, I think Shaquille O'Neal was the most important single player, as referenced by the fact that he went to Miami and promptly added a fourth to his resume in 2006.
Don't get me wrong; I think O'Neal not being able to accept that Bryant would be the most important player is a big part of why he left. And in Miami, Dwyane Wade was the most important player in that championship run.

Storch
09-14-2013, 09:36 AM
People want to beat kobe bryant, because he's one of the greatest. So it hurts the lakers free agency fortunes.

3RDASYSTEM
09-14-2013, 02:01 PM
I think that this is a good question and hope that this thread doesn't get derailed with the usual nonsense.

I think it hurts and the whole Dwight Howard ordeal is a good example of how players don't want to go to the Lakers and be told to sit down and shut up by a past-prime Kobe. Kobe isn't one of those players who is willing to reduce his game as he gets older and continues to demand to be the alpha dog. It's one of the great things about him - that egotistical fire that drives him, but it also becomes a liability for the franchise and team building as he gets older and the team needs a new star (who, like Howard, is sure to want a timeline on when they will be given the reigns to the team).

when I read a statement about bean and it says 5 rings, this killer will or alpha male it just reminds me of how overrated he is

2 alpha's have been on same team and co existed until bean entered the league as a backup player and then all of a sudden he doesn't want to give up his 'seniority' rights to younger better players or any established vet who is just as good or better

anytime a so called alpha male is tired of being a sidekick I would have to question rather he is a true alpha/franchise player or a backup player gone mad,insane for that matter in running off the best C in the game when healthy, the C he faced in the FINALS not too long ago

3RDASYSTEM
09-14-2013, 02:10 PM
i don't think durant or harden willl accept being 2nd, durant already stated he was tired of being second, if he leaves okc it would probably be to get away from a ball hogg(westbrook) not join another one.

DURANT is talking about being 2nd in entire nba to LEBRON, he's not talking about being a 2nd option

are you high? a 3x scoring champ will pretty much be no less than 1a on any team especially being like 25yrs old

DURANT go to LA bean would not only be demoted by the fans as 2nd option but im sure MIKE D and the great mind of JIMMY can convince him it would be suitable for him if he wants to remotely come close to a 6th ring

KD is no HOWARD on the offensive side of ball, nowhere near close, once DURANT perfects his post game then it will be even more clear

and how is WBROOK a ballhog? he is clearly the 2nd strong option on that team, DURANT always says how much he needs him so I don't know why he wouldn't go team up with another legit all nba caliber player, that would be insane to leave OKC from HARDEN/WBROOK to go anywhere if he doesn't have a planned big 3 of his own up his sleeve

have you ever competed in bball to say such things? opinion is cool but c'mon DURANT is 2nd best player in most people eyes, and obviously in his own since he says he was tired of being 2nd to BRON and whoever else won the ring/mvp, so its clearly BRON he is talking about and a healthy HOWARD as far as 2 way players

3RDASYSTEM
09-14-2013, 02:15 PM
It does answer the OP's question. LAL should not even think of removing Kobe for the reasons I mentioned. Thus eliminates the "hurt" part and answers the question. I do agree, Kobe may be tough to play for because of his personality. However, LAL needs to understand that this is Kobe we're talking about. Would the Bulls have asked MJ to retire after all he done for them?

The same bean who wanted out pre GASOL is the same bean me and la are talking about, its not hard to trade a player who wanted out so I would love for la fiens and followers alike to quit acting like they wont move him if it costs them a BRON or so, after costing them basically SHAQ and HOWARD, and he told GASOL to put on his big boy pants after going to 3 straight FINALS with him

if JORDAN got cold shoulder by KRAUSE and BULLS and MANNING got cut by INDY then im sure this could be last year if nobody wants to play with him

he's going on 35(50 as far as total mileage) and not 25 like DURANT and others

why do you think HOWARD chose to go play with a 24yr old over a 35 and 40yr old backcourt?

like I said if JORDAN and MANNING can get cut off the only teams they knew then bean is no different than those players

3RDASYSTEM
09-14-2013, 02:29 PM
It hurts them. The Lakers are gonna be Kobe's team no matter how long he is there or who joins the team. Lebron could join and it would still be Kobe's team.But it's not like he's wrong for that, he was responsible for 5 championships.

its his team since he was drafted by them and they moved on from JONES/VAN EXEL, others have come via free agent/trade like SHAQ/PAU/ODOM

him being responsible for 5 rings is the same 5 rings that WILL PURDUE or FISHER has so lets just talk about the topic at hand, 5 rings is all good but WILT only had 2 but if RED would have convinced him to join C's he would have 13 rings or so

and I still wouldn't look at WILT any different from his individual impact/game he had, that's what counts,what the players bring as a player,impact and gameplanning for that player

WILT would have led C's to 13 rings, since they would have had the best team in a 8 team league or do you think he would have won only 2 rings with that same squad only with RUSSELL on his side?

BRON would join and bean would get traded if he was doing all that talking like last off season when HOWARD/NASH got there, BRON almost can match his 5 rings with nba mvp awards so im sure it would be BRON's team, just like how everybody said it was WADE's team until 2nd yr and it was clear who was the nba mvp and best player on heat and who is the engine, just like he was in CLEVELAND

3RDASYSTEM
09-14-2013, 02:36 PM
I voted yes, because Kobe Bryant, if anything, knows how to adapt. Although an older franchise player wouldn't find a very friendly Bryant making way, I think he'll know how to properly incorporate a younger player who can officially take over when he retires. I just keep hoping that isn't Damian Lillard.



I don't think that's what he was saying. The teams Bryant was on – not Bryant himself – were responsible for five championships, with Bryant a big part of it all.
During those first three championships, I think Shaquille O'Neal was the most important single player, as referenced by the fact that he went to Miami and promptly added a fourth to his resume in 2006.
Don't get me wrong; I think O'Neal not being able to accept that Bryant would be the most important player is a big part of why he left. And in Miami, Dwyane Wade was the most important player in that championship run.

not to mention SHAQ tasted the FINALS before he joined bean with PENNY in ORLANDO

SHAQ was not able to accept PENNY/bean being better or having more impact as individual and it showed soon as he left

and it also showed with WADE as he went from 2nd rd max to ECF/FINALS with SHAQ in first 2 yrs with him

SHAQ learned and appreciated WADE more by first playing with a similar team player in PENNY and then had to play with the backup ballhog in bean, that's why he appreciated WADE so much more and he took shots at bean when he first left speaking highly on WADE

WADE was the most explosive player with combination of youth and being good so SHAQ was smart enough to let him bring it home but don't act like SHAQ wasn't getting doubled in that FINALS

now why I have no clue,ask AVERY J because I couldn't understand why he was doing it and that helped open the floor for WADE also, and he was just taking it to any defender also 1 on 1 or 1 on whatever

I feel bean let WADE take his shine and another finals mvp because SHAQ only had 2 more yrs of BIG DIESEL and then bean could have taken over in 05-06' like WADE did and it could have been 5-7 rings instead of 3 for that duo

but difference is WADE took over and won 06' title with declining but still effective SHAQ, bean on other hand shot themselves out the 04' FINALS with more dominant SHAQ, see how funny 2 yrs can be for older players?

33-35 is a lot different than 23-25yrs of age, WADE is better than bean, well on the biggest stage going for self and willing a team to victory he is, based on the situations that happened with same SHAQ for most part

3RDASYSTEM
09-14-2013, 02:48 PM
Hurts the weak minded ones who think they know it all. Helps the ones seeking greatness and who can learn from an nba legend and still top 5 player last yr. he has so much valuable knowledge and experience he can offer. Older ego guys like Lebron, melo and Dwight it would hurt, but a young moldable and eager players like Irving or Westbrook, rose it would help. And then they can take over when he retire in a yr or 3.

I guess he was the same way? I mean the guy went from backup laker player to nobody wanting to play with him because he is there

nobody wants to take over in 3 yrs for a 17yr player coming off injury

you guys stay sipping the kool aid of this backup player, cut it out

3RDASYSTEM
09-14-2013, 03:01 PM
1980s

G: Dennis Johnson
G: Magic Johnson
F: Larry Bird
F: Charles Barkley
C: Moses Malone
Reserves: Isiah Thomas, G; Robert Parish, C; Kevin McHale, F


See how JORDAN got burned for not winning rings in that decade but clearly he was the best even if he only went 6yrs that decade, that's plenty of work to at least make the reserve squad, plus no DREAM on that team is a travesty borderline

that's why I don't use rings never ever when judging the cream of the crop players, they speak for themselves on individual level, now the gm/owner has to put the roster together for rings, that's the tricky part but I don't hold the player accountable for that, never have and never will....its sports 101 to focus on individual player game/impact when ranking just that, the sum of the parts are secondary and mean nothing

2000s

G: Steve Nash
G: Kobe Bryant
F: LeBron James
F: Tim Duncan
C: Shaquille O’Neal
Reserves: Jason Kidd G; Kevin Garnett F/C; Dwyane Wade, G/F

I guess since BRON entered the league a year before JORDAN in decade pattern he was rightfully the choice and JORDAN didn't make the team, or maybe competition was stronger in JORDAN era at his position? but to have DJ over JORDAN is insane

its not the end of all end just a example of how opinions vary and some can be silly like above or some can be more accurate

NASH on starting lineup and not KG is crazy, KG is close to DUNCAN its just the rings thing for him also

but I always felt KG was on his level or higher just like I always felt like AI was on higher level individually than bean

just like I felt JORDAN was on level or higher than BIRD/MAGIC in 80's when they won all the rings except for 1 and JORDAN won zero

some things never change

LAcowBOMBER
09-14-2013, 03:03 PM
Do people realize how little Kobe's stats and play have decreased? Every year on here people talk about how he's going to start his decline. Now he is injured so people will say that will really start the decline. Many people have been wrong year after year about him declining, why don't we wait until it actually happens before some on here accept it as fact

topdog
09-14-2013, 10:23 PM
I didn't bash his health, he handled it pretty well coming from this type of major surgery, I was talking about his lack of skills and leadership, and sometimes effort which has nothing to do with his health.

I'm not saying you did. I'm refuting the fact that you called him "washed up" and "not a superstar" because of what he can't do.

RiceOnTheRun
09-16-2013, 03:11 AM
If kobe gets lets say love then I bet top players will try to make there way to the lakers. Also good vets as well. Kobe just needs pieces then kobe and the lakers are the most desirable place to play.

If bosh went to clevland more players would of followed and Nash to Minnesota the same. Chris Paul was better in New Orleans but now players want to play on his team because he has other pieces.

This is only brought up because a washed up Howard left LA. Howard wasn't a superstar player anyways.

But nobody gives a rat's *** about players that want to go to LA. It has been, and always will be, a superstar driven league. Kobe could get all the role players he wants in LA, without another star or two, they don't win another championship.

Superstars are for the most part alpha dogs. There's probably 5-6 at most 'superstar' caliber players that can lead their teams to a championship at this point. Next season, Kobe won't be one of them. Doesn't mean that Kobe sucks, just means that he isn't what he used to be. That being said, why would a young, superstar caliber player want to join a team with an aging star that takes 35% of his team's shots?

The Lakers would be far from the most desirable place to play. If anything, young talent like GSW, OKC or Houston would be the most desirable. Either that or established contenders in their prime like Miami or the Clippers. The Lakers FO is a mess right now and their roster isn't much better. Let's not even get started with their coaching situation.

A player like K-Love is already 25 right now. His prime, if healthy, will be around the 2015-2019 seasons. All the Lakers have to offer him is their reputation. There's no other guarantee of a star being there anytime soon. At least with teams like OKC, you know there's a good chance that KD or Westbrook will be there 5-6 years down the line.

amos1er
09-16-2013, 03:42 AM
Kobe will likely leave after this season. With Jim Buss at the helm, no legit free agents want to come to the Lakers. Unless Jeanie Buss and Phil Jackson usurp Jim next year, the Lakers are looking at dark times ahead. Kobe's only chance at ring number six will be with another team unless Jim is removed from power.

IndyRealist
09-16-2013, 10:06 AM
Does it hurt them in free agency? Absolutely. No franchise player is going to sign there as long as Kobe is still top dog.

Does it hurt them long term? Not really. They'll trade draft picks and cap space for a team looking to rebuild, or one that made a mistake signing. They could easily end up with a Josh Smith, Rudy Gay, and/or James Harden if those teams don't perform perform to expectations.

RiceOnTheRun
09-16-2013, 02:12 PM
Does it hurt them in free agency? Absolutely. No franchise player is going to sign there as long as Kobe is still top dog.

Does it hurt them long term? Not really. They'll trade draft picks and cap space for a team looking to rebuild, or one that made a mistake signing. They could easily end up with a Josh Smith, Rudy Gay, and/or James Harden if those teams don't perform perform to expectations.

Josh Smith and Rudy Gay aren't the type of players that will lead a team to a championship. They would be the second or third option on a championship team. Harden is a maybe, but unless there's some major beef between him and Dwight this season, it makes no sense for him to leave the Rockets. A team led by Josh Smith and Rudy Gay would get dominated in a conference with KD/Westbrook, GSW, Harden/Dwight.