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View Full Version : Who was better at their best?



DreamShaker
09-11-2013, 11:36 AM
We have just had a slew of big names retire. Some will make the HOF, others absolutly would have if not for injuries, but might anyway. So who was the best in their prime? You can rank them or just pick one.

Choose from these guys:

Jason Kidd
Tracy Mcgrady
Allen Iverson
Grant Hill

NYKnickFanatic
09-11-2013, 11:41 AM
Better at their best, all healthy?

I think I would go with T-Mac.

Chronz
09-11-2013, 12:02 PM
At their best? Do you mean like when everything is clicking, like when Kidd had his shot on lock, he became a complete player because that was basically his only weakness. But that happened so infrequently its kind of hard to bank on it. Grant Hill is in a similar boat, his defense and perimeter shot weren't that great.

If thats what you mean then at his best, Iverson is still 6ft and incapable of defending his position. Thats a pretty glaring weakness for someone at their best.
Whereas a guy like Tmac was capable of defending 1-4 and even anchoring his teams defense as a 5 in certain zone schemes, to go along with having superior offensive production.

Point being, AI doesn't belong on this list, those other guys are way too big and have more well balanced games.

I dont even think Tmac belongs here because its obviously him, he was at his best for the entire 2003 season (check out his post all-star break splits to will Orlando into the post season). He did pick and choose when to defend but come playoff time he locked down.

Between Kidd and Tmac to me. Hill was a slightly lesser version of Tmac in every way imaginable.

Heatcheck
09-11-2013, 12:02 PM
Kidd, and its not even close

Htownballa1622
09-11-2013, 12:12 PM
Tracy Mcgrady

Stinkyoutsider
09-11-2013, 12:13 PM
That is a tough question...

Although I would like to take T-Mac for his ability to take over and carry a team but I like Grant Hill here. The guy could do everything on the court when he was healthy. He would score, rebound, pass, and pick up the other team's best wing scorer.

I think of the 4 listed, Hill has had the worst problems with injuries?

nycericanguy
09-11-2013, 12:14 PM
Kidd...

IKnowHoops
09-11-2013, 12:44 PM
Between Tracy and AI.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2013, 12:53 PM
McGrady
Kidd
Hill
Iverson

in that order

alexander_37
09-11-2013, 02:04 PM
Mcgrady easily, he was the best in the league at his best.

DreamShaker
09-11-2013, 02:08 PM
At their best? Do you mean like when everything is clicking, like when Kidd had his shot on lock, he became a complete player because that was basically his only weakness. But that happened so infrequently its kind of hard to bank on it. Grant Hill is in a similar boat, his defense and perimeter shot weren't that great.

If thats what you mean then at his best, Iverson is still 6ft and incapable of defending his position. Thats a pretty glaring weakness for someone at their best.
Whereas a guy like Tmac was capable of defending 1-4 and even anchoring his teams defense as a 5 in certain zone schemes, to go along with having superior offensive production.

Point being, AI doesn't belong on this list, those other guys are way too big and have more well balanced games.

I dont even think Tmac belongs here because its obviously him, he was at his best for the entire 2003 season (check out his post all-star break splits to will Orlando into the post season). He did pick and choose when to defend but come playoff time he locked down.

Between Kidd and Tmac to me. Hill was a slightly lesser version of Tmac in every way imaginable.

I wasn't saying they were similar in terms of talent, they just all officially announced their retirement all around the same time. I was interested to see where people rated them. Good post, though.

Heatcheck
09-11-2013, 02:19 PM
Mcgrady easily, he was the best in the league at his best.

the best what? sg, maybe. player? nope

NYKnickFanatic
09-11-2013, 02:22 PM
the best what? sg, maybe. player? nope

Who was better than a prime, healthy T-Mac?

Heatcheck
09-11-2013, 02:31 PM
Who was better than a prime, healthy T-Mac?

Shaquille Oneal

abe_froman
09-11-2013, 02:51 PM
tmac
hill
kidd
ai

LoveMeOrHateMe
09-11-2013, 03:11 PM
Between hill and t-Mac but ill say hill

da wood
09-11-2013, 03:15 PM
Kobe was still better than prime Tmac too. but in his prime grant hill was the next Jordan before he was hurt so its a toss up to me. you cant go wrong picking any player.

Dade County
09-11-2013, 03:50 PM
In Order...

Iverson
J Kidd
T Mac
Hill

flea
09-11-2013, 03:52 PM
McGrady
Hill
Kidd
AI

Hill and Kidd are close.

Heatcheck
09-11-2013, 04:15 PM
Kobe was still better than prime Tmac too. but in his prime grant hill was the next Jordan before he was hurt so its a toss up to me. you cant go wrong picking any player.

nope

JWO35
09-11-2013, 04:21 PM
Grant Hill...injuries took away Hill prime years(the other 3 was at least somewhat healthy). I mean straight out of the gate he was putting up 21/9/7.

Chronz
09-11-2013, 04:50 PM
Oh they all did retire... forgot about that one.

Kidd makes the most sense from a competitive standpoint then.

b@llhog24
09-12-2013, 10:34 AM
Tmac.

ManningToTyree
09-12-2013, 11:03 AM
Kidd

NYKnickFanatic
09-12-2013, 12:08 PM
Kobe was still better than prime Tmac too. but in his prime grant hill was the next Jordan before he was hurt so its a toss up to me. you cant go wrong picking any player.

Shaq, yes, but I don't know about Kobe.

MTar786
09-12-2013, 12:26 PM
Tmac then kidd and hill as 2b

jstone0716
09-12-2013, 02:12 PM
Grant Hill

Tony_Starks
09-12-2013, 04:03 PM
AI in a heartbeat.

beasted86
09-12-2013, 04:37 PM
This is a good topic, but I'm going to say T-Mac. He was a true beast his early years with Orlando.

Tony_Starks
09-12-2013, 05:05 PM
In Order...

Iverson
J Kidd
T Mac
Hill

I can roll with this

diu9leilomo
09-12-2013, 05:26 PM
AI then Tmac....

Ai was unstoppable even hes 6ft and weighs 160

Chronz
09-12-2013, 06:58 PM
AI then Tmac....

Ai was unstoppable even hes 6ft and weighs 160

What about the other end? At his best, hes still a midget incapable of defending anyone. You cant sick him on beefy PG's or rangy PF's like you can Tmac and Kidd was the ultimate team defender. AI just gambles

ManRam
09-12-2013, 07:05 PM
Based on this specific question, ranking them based on peak play:

T-Mac
Hill
Kidd
Iverson


Confident about T-Mac and Iverson's spots...if we're talking peak play then those two are obvious. Hill and Kidd are tough and hard for me to compare. Hill's seasons with Detroit were sensational, and I think slightly better than Kidd's best.

If we're talking legacy than that list falls apart.

FlashBolt
09-12-2013, 11:03 PM
Has to be T-Mac without thinking. When I saw his name even mentioned along everyone else, I felt something was wrong.

In my order, it would be

T-Mac
Allen Iverson
Grant Hill
Jason Kidd

Jason Kidd wasn't a great offensive player. He was no doubt one of the most complete players ever, but I don't think he was better than Hill or AI in his prime.

ghettosean
09-12-2013, 11:49 PM
McGrady
Kidd
Hill
Iverson

in that order

This!

T-Mac in his prime was ridiculous.... though him and Kidd are a both close to me only because Kidd was just so fast in his prime and a triple double waiting to happen.

ddt
09-13-2013, 01:57 AM
T. Mac
A. Iverson
J. Kidd
G. Hill

It's really hard to say ... From what I remember watching/observing ... I'm pretty sure T.Mac and A. Iverson chucked up like 20++++ shots a game.

jstone0716
09-13-2013, 11:59 AM
Anyone putting Kidd or Iverson ahead of Grant Hill needs to be smacked upside the head. That is crazy talk. We're talking prime of their careers - Grant Hill was incredible... if he had stayed healthy he would've been legendary, MJ or Magic legendary. Don't get me wrong - Kidd and Iverson are hall of fame players and great in their own right... but definitely not up to that of Grant Hill in his prime. Not even close.

Hawkeye15
09-13-2013, 12:18 PM
This!

T-Mac in his prime was ridiculous.... though him and Kidd are a both close to me only because Kidd was just so fast in his prime and a triple double waiting to happen.

before LeBron came along, Kidd was maybe the fastest I have seen end to end with the ball in his hands.

Hawkeye15
09-13-2013, 12:20 PM
T. Mac
A. Iverson
J. Kidd
G. Hill

It's really hard to say ... From what I remember watching/observing ... I'm pretty sure T.Mac and A. Iverson chucked up like 20++++ shots a game.

McGrady's shooting efficiency was far superior however.

PhillyFaninLA
09-13-2013, 12:25 PM
Out of the names listed in the orginal post Grant Hill....he was so special, he could have been a top 5 guy if he was healthy.

nycericanguy
09-13-2013, 12:47 PM
Tmac's numbers didn't lead to success, and for a great scorer he never shot above 45% even ONCE during all his years. Never got out of the first round either...

Kidd played a great all around game and led teams to the finals that had no business being there...

Chronz
09-13-2013, 02:57 PM
Tmac's numbers didn't lead to success, and for a great scorer he never shot above 45% even ONCE during all his years. Never got out of the first round either...

Kidd played a great all around game and led teams to the finals that had no business being there...
Who cares about fg%? Kidd led teams that had every business being in the finals, tmac had no business being in the playoffs with his trashy teammates

nycericanguy
09-13-2013, 03:50 PM
Who cares about fg%? Kidd led teams that had every business being in the finals, tmac had no business being in the playoffs with his trashy teammates

Kidd took over a lottery team that Marbury couldn't even get in the playoffs and took them to the finals.

Jason Collins - trash center
Kmart - Good player, but not a star... went downhill after Kidd
Jefferson - solid player whose career also took a nosedive after Kidd.
Kittles who was decent.. again fell apart and out of the league after Kidd

Those were pretty much his guys... that's only a finals team because Kidd made it so, McGrady wouldn't take that team to the finals, that's for damn sure.

Now I'm not saying Mcgrady had great teams, but great players can do more with what they have, and I just never felt McGrady maximized any of the teams he was on.

T

FlashBolt
09-13-2013, 05:40 PM
Out of the names listed in the orginal post Grant Hill....he was so special, he could have been a top 5 guy if he was healthy.

No. They said the same about Hardaway. Great players but not top 10.

Riodagoat
09-14-2013, 12:37 AM
I don't understand why nobody is voting for Grant Hill? This dude was supposed to be the next Jordan before he went down. Dude nearly averaged a triple double at some point

nosde12-ddt
09-14-2013, 04:10 AM
I have to go with Kidd. Remember when he was traded to the nets for Marbury? He instantly made the nets a contender and went to the finals 2 times. AI and TMAC are 2 great SCORERS. What do you think guys?


dailydreamteam.com - "Taking your daily fantasy basketball skills to the next level."

JasonJohnHorn
09-18-2013, 02:54 PM
Grant Hill hands down.

If you gave me ten years of any of those players at their prime, I'd take Grant Hill every time.

At 24 years of age he was posting almost 10 boards a game to go along with 7 assists and 20+ points with almost 2 steals a game and only 3 turnovers...

Yeah... MGrady scored more, but he did so less efficiently and caused more turnovers-per-assist with less got assists and fewer rebounds...

Plus, aside from the stats, there is the maturity issue...

Iverson and McGrady were selfish players... they both proved they were not the guys to build teams around. Grant Hill was like a cross between Stockton and Duncan. Had he stayed healthy he would have been in the conversation with Jordan and LBK and easily ranked ahead of Pippen.

Kidd was a great team player, but at the end of the day he couldn't provide scoring like Hill, he needed scorers around him. Kidd is likely the better rebounder (considering his position) and playmaker (though he is a point guard), but Hill was a far more talented scorer and was good enough at passing and rebounding that whatever advantage Kidd may have had in that respect was not so great as to compensate for Hill ability to score.

Anybody who say Hill play in Detroit know how truly great he was. Losing both him and Penny Hardaway to injury was really bad for the league.... those guys were both very special players.

FlashBolt
09-19-2013, 01:14 AM
Grant Hill hands down.

If you gave me ten years of any of those players at their prime, I'd take Grant Hill every time.

At 24 years of age he was posting almost 10 boards a game to go along with 7 assists and 20+ points with almost 2 steals a game and only 3 turnovers...

Yeah... MGrady scored more, but he did so less efficiently and caused more turnovers-per-assist with less got assists and fewer rebounds...

Plus, aside from the stats, there is the maturity issue...

Iverson and McGrady were selfish players... they both proved they were not the guys to build teams around. Grant Hill was like a cross between Stockton and Duncan. Had he stayed healthy he would have been in the conversation with Jordan and LBK and easily ranked ahead of Pippen.

Kidd was a great team player, but at the end of the day he couldn't provide scoring like Hill, he needed scorers around him. Kidd is likely the better rebounder (considering his position) and playmaker (though he is a point guard), but Hill was a far more talented scorer and was good enough at passing and rebounding that whatever advantage Kidd may have had in that respect was not so great as to compensate for Hill ability to score.

Anybody who say Hill play in Detroit know how truly great he was. Losing both him and Penny Hardaway to injury was really bad for the league.... those guys were both very special players.

Woahhh, lets not get carried away. Hill does not belong in mj and lj sentence. In his prime, he wasnt even close. His defense doesnt compare also. Grant hill vs pippen, tough but gimme pip

RiceOnTheRun
09-19-2013, 03:42 AM
Shaquille Oneal

ding ding ding winna winna chicken dinna

amos1er
09-19-2013, 04:33 AM
T-Mac for sure.

WadeKobe
09-19-2013, 04:52 AM
Jkidd

JasonJohnHorn
09-19-2013, 11:09 AM
Woahhh, lets not get carried away. Hill does not belong in mj and lj sentence. In his prime, he wasnt even close. His defense doesnt compare also. Grant hill vs pippen, tough but gimme pip

He was a different player than they were, but his skill level was as high. Like I said, I see him as a cross between Tim Duncan and John Stockton. He could score 30+ if he wanted to, but let's be honest, he knew it was a team game and he knew he could not win without a team effort. He was always trying to involve the guys around him and he made them better.

Rebounding and play making, he proved that at his best he was better than Pippen at both.

I say he would have been in the conversation with LBJ and Jordan, not that he would be as good as them. But that said, looking at Grant Hill at the age of 24: dude got over 9 boards and 7 assists a game while scoring 20+ and grabbing almost two steals a game.

Defensively he had a different style than MJ or LBJ. He was more like Stockton where he was a high-IQ defender. He knew how to position himself and guard the passing lanes. He didn't put on the 1-on-1 pressure you see commonly wit LBJ or MJ, but he was still VERY effective.

I would not say Hill was as good as MJ or LBJ, you are 100% on that... but had he been able to develop his game, we would have seen a VERY special player. He was an amazing all-around player with a very unique skill set and maturity that is lacking in most people as talented as him.

For the sake of this conversation, I take: Hill, then Kidd, then McGrady, then I would try to trade Iverson for somebody else ;-)

Hawkeye15
09-19-2013, 11:36 AM
I don't understand why nobody is voting for Grant Hill? This dude was supposed to be the next Jordan before he went down. Dude nearly averaged a triple double at some point

Hill was really good, but he wasn't as dominant as TMac, and Kidd's team success coupled with his individual play are just superior. Hill was nothing like Jordan, more of a 20-7-6 guy. Like a poor man's LeBron honestly.

Sly Guy
09-19-2013, 11:56 AM
At their best? Do you mean like when everything is clicking, like when Kidd had his shot on lock, he became a complete player because that was basically his only weakness. But that happened so infrequently its kind of hard to bank on it. Grant Hill is in a similar boat, his defense and perimeter shot weren't that great.

If thats what you mean then at his best, Iverson is still 6ft and incapable of defending his position. Thats a pretty glaring weakness for someone at their best.
Whereas a guy like Tmac was capable of defending 1-4 and even anchoring his teams defense as a 5 in certain zone schemes, to go along with having superior offensive production.

Point being, AI doesn't belong on this list, those other guys are way too big and have more well balanced games.

I dont even think Tmac belongs here because its obviously him, he was at his best for the entire 2003 season (check out his post all-star break splits to will Orlando into the post season). He did pick and choose when to defend but come playoff time he locked down.

Between Kidd and Tmac to me. Hill was a slightly lesser version of Tmac in every way imaginable.

I like this breakdown. I was gonna go with Hill, but you're right. Injuries leave to many 'what ifs' about his prime to choose him.

ewing
09-19-2013, 01:14 PM
We have just had a slew of big names retire. Some will make the HOF, others absolutly would have if not for injuries, but might anyway. So who was the best in their prime? You can rank them or just pick one.

Choose from these guys:

Jason Kidd
Tracy Mcgrady
Allen Iverson
Grant Hill

Kidd
Grant
T-Mac
AI

In that order. As much as i love Hill and T-Mac i think anyone watch J Kidd regularly in his prime can attest to the impact he had on basketball games.