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BCpatsox18
09-05-2013, 11:45 PM
With many people earlier in the year wanting to give up on WMB, has this stretch changed any minds? At 24, he's played 150 major league games, slightly under a full year. In those games he's put up a BA of .259, OBP .301, slugging .467, and OPS of .768 with 27 home runs and 92 RBI. Compare that to the age 25 season a player i'll bet many people would love to have just based on name, Mark Trumbo .254/.291/.477/.768 with 29 HR and 87 RBI and WMB seems to come out on top with the superior BA, OBP, and identical OPS. Compare him to another player who people were sad to see go, Anthony Rizzo, and he still comes out on top. At 24, Rizzo is batting .230/.326/.425/.751 with 21 HR and 73 RBI. The ability to get on base is probably the thing that turns most people on this forum on about Rizzo which is understandable, but WMB has the edge in BA and slugging % suggesting to me at least he is more of a run producer than Rizzo. He'll never be the second coming, but IMO many people gave up way too early on a player still with a lot of promise and all-star potential.

Lackeyfan41
09-05-2013, 11:55 PM
I don't think you can compare Middlebrooks to pre-injury Middlebrooks last year, but you also can not compare him to earlier this season when he could not hit anything. Those 2 players are not that comparable, Middlebrooks just happens to fit into those categories because he has had 2 wild ups and downs.

Would be interesting to see what he works himself into because at this point he does not really have an identity (at least to me)

bagwell368
09-06-2013, 06:25 AM
I don't think you can compare Middlebrooks to pre-injury Middlebrooks last year, but you also can not compare him to earlier this season when he could not hit anything. Those 2 players are not that comparable, Middlebrooks just happens to fit into those categories because he has had 2 wild ups and downs.

Would be interesting to see what he works himself into because at this point he does not really have an identity (at least to me)

Right. Trumbo is a question mark to me, he's got big holes in his swing. He's a 1B/OF. I would not trade WMB for Trumbo.

Rizzo is a 1B that started out in a pitchers park, his corrected slash is: .241/.330/.418, and he's going to win some GG's which WMB will not. Also Rizzo is 11 months younger. I'd deal WMB for Rizzo in a heart beat.

Bos_Sports4Life
09-06-2013, 12:18 PM
Im not so down on him as much as the fact cecchini looks too be better and playes the same position. Cecchini looks like a solid bet to be starting by '15.

So IMO you give WMB the job in '14 (unless he goes on an absolute tear and the team feels the value is the highest its going too be, than i suppose they could explore the trade market?) And trade him in in the offseason before the start of the '15 season.

People have said stick WMB at 1B when cecchini comes, but my question is...Does he have a productive enough bat? If his OBP remains just a notch above .300, I expect a .550 SLG or so.

flea
09-06-2013, 12:28 PM
People have said stick WMB at 1B when cecchini comes, but my question is...Does he have a productive enough bat? If his OBP remains just a notch above .300, I expect a .550 SLG or so.

I don't believe this stat line has ever existed before. Hard to expect something that seems virtually impossible.

Bos_Sports4Life
09-06-2013, 12:57 PM
I don't believe this stat line has ever existed before. Hard to expect something that seems virtually impossible.

i prob should have said .525 but the point remains, he better hit for a very high slg if he was too become a productive 1B.

Maybe a soriano type slash?

Personally, i'd just deal him. His value is greater at 3B which means other teams will likely value him more than we do, assuming cecchini continues too progress.

RedSoxtober
09-06-2013, 07:01 PM
I don't believe this stat line has ever existed before. Hard to expect something that seems virtually impossible.

Agreed. .550 SLG would be perennial top 10 in MLB. Guys with that kind of pop tend to drive an OBP closer to .400 simply because they get pitched around. I don't see Middlebrooks getting into that conversation.

ruckus16969
09-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Right. Trumbo is a question mark to me, he's got big holes in his swing. He's a 1B/OF. I would not trade WMB for Trumbo.

Rizzo is a 1B that started out in a pitchers park, his corrected slash is: .241/.330/.418, and he's going to win some GG's which WMB will not. Also Rizzo is 11 months younger. I'd deal WMB for Rizzo in a heart beat.

I have always liked Trumbo and I would love to have him on this team

Station 13
09-06-2013, 08:31 PM
I have always liked Trumbo and I would love to have him on this team

You already have Napoli. A better hitter.

Sportfan
09-07-2013, 10:19 AM
24 games since coming back he's had a .350/.411/.588 slash.

ruckus16969
09-07-2013, 01:35 PM
You already have Napoli. A better hitter.

I've always liked Napoli too LOL. Trumbo in LF Nap on 1B next year lol. So many strike outs omg lol

AI
09-13-2013, 10:26 PM
Middlebrooks 0 for his last 13. Was it a hot streak or is this a slump? Hmm.

Lackeyfan41
09-14-2013, 04:39 PM
Middlebrooks 0 for his last 13. Was it a hot streak or is this a slump? Hmm.
He was terrible today.

Maybe it would be good to play Bogs at 3rd tomorrow night to give him 2 days off, or would that be too much time because he is prone to having mental-baseball issues...

bagwell368
09-14-2013, 09:58 PM
He was terrible today.

Maybe it would be good to play Bogs at 3rd tomorrow night to give him 2 days off, or would that be too much time because he is prone to having mental-baseball issues...

Yup, give him a few days off.

RedSoxtober
09-16-2013, 08:47 AM
Middlebrooks 0 for his last 13. Was it a hot streak or is this a slump? Hmm.

FWIW, I heard talk about the way one of the vets (Napoli or Gomes) had taken him under his wing since WMB returned. One of the big things that he'd done was to get Middlebrooks away from video games, Twitter, etc before the games so that he was more focused on baseball when it was time to play. That, along with some adjustments in his approach at the plate, seem to suggest that this is a slump. Then again, I'm an optimist by nature so I WANT to believe good things about him...

bagwell368
09-16-2013, 11:08 AM
FWIW, I heard talk about the way one of the vets (Napoli or Gomes) had taken him under his wing since WMB returned. One of the big things that he'd done was to get Middlebrooks away from video games, Twitter, etc before the games so that he was more focused on baseball when it was time to play. That, along with some adjustments in his approach at the plate, seem to suggest that this is a slump. Then again, I'm an optimist by nature so I WANT to believe good things about him...

Life for the Sox (team and fans) becomes oh so much easier if WMB can pull years of .280/.340/.490 over at 1B, pretty much Napoli production but look at the cost...

BTW, Merloni was just talking about how high up in the stats WMB is this year for taking pitches, something appears to have gotten into him.

RedSoxtober
09-16-2013, 11:41 AM
Yeah, he's at 4.14 pit/PA for the season and obviously much better since his return from PAW. His 10BB since coming back almost equal his 2012 total (13) in less than half the games.

Sigh, as I look at more details though it may be very well be a hot streak as AI mentioned in his question. His BB% dropped from almost 8.5% in Aug to just 3% in SEP, and his AUG line overall (.322/.406/.475) was fueled by an unsustainable .405 BABIP. SEP looks a lot more like your wish-list slash and it probably a lot more realistic for him.

-Lavigne43-
09-16-2013, 12:08 PM
At least half the BB's he drew were in the NL games when he was batting 8th. They walked him a lot to get to the pitcher.

Nomar
09-16-2013, 01:46 PM
I hope he gets hot one more time. Then maybe he becomes a trade candidate in the offseason like he should've been last year. Probably wishful thinking that his value is where it was then though.

-Lavigne43-
09-16-2013, 04:48 PM
If he goes off in the postseason his value would be better.

RedSoxtober
09-17-2013, 09:56 AM
At least half the BB's he drew were in the NL games when he was batting 8th. They walked him a lot to get to the pitcher.

I was ready to jump on that but checked first. It's not true. He played in only 6 interleague games and drew 3 BB, all by SFG. The first two were IBB from Lincecum that were about getting to the pitcher. The third was Machi (relieved Zito); it was a lead off walk and unlikely about getting to the pitcher.

-Lavigne43-
09-17-2013, 01:35 PM
I guess my memory is centered on that one game, rather than spread across. It felt like he was getting pitched around that series , and I remember thinking that someone was going to bring up his increased walk rate.

The pitches per pa doesn't surprise me because I see him get into full counts a lot. I know I'm not the only one who has noticed it, but once he gets into a full count he seems determined to swing at anything and get himself out. He's hitting .161/.316/.355 with a full count. I don't know what the league average is, but I'm pretty sure that is horrible. 3-2 should be one of your best pitch count splits.

Lackeyfan41
09-17-2013, 07:33 PM
WMB gets worse as the at bats go on. Especially when on 3-2, he just swings at everything. He takes a lot of pitches, but the longer the at bat is the more likely it seems he is to get out. You never see WMB have great 8-9 pitch at bats..

I am not sure if that is something you can fix, because that has to be a mental approach, it has nothing to do physically.

RedSoxtober
09-18-2013, 03:10 PM
He's hitting .161/.316/.355 with a full count. I don't know what the league average is, but I'm pretty sure that is horrible. 3-2 should be one of your best pitch count splits.

Per B-R, that .161/.316/.355 slash is a 71 OPS+ for full counts across MLB. By considerable contrast, with a 1-0 count he's at .647/.647/1.412 (yes, 1.412 SLG => 2.059 OPS) is a 350 sOPS+ and on the first pitch it's .321/.333/.571. Maybe he's just Josh Reddick at an IF position.