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View Full Version : 2013 Mock Offseason Playoffs ECF: 2 Chicago Bulls vs. 4 Indiana Pacers



PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 02:45 PM
Every summer, PSD holds a game which mocks that year's NBA offseason. This year, users from the site took the reigns of NBA franchises and had to utilize their skills via draft, trades, and free agency to improve their teams. At the end of the game, GMs voted on how they believed the regular season of this game would shake up. These are the playoffs of PSD's 2013 NBA Mock Offseason.

Please take the time to consider each line up, the match-up itself, and vote on which team you believe would win in a seven game series.

The Bulls have homecourt advantage.

Bulls Depth Chart:

PG: Deron Williams (38) l JJ Barea (10) l Peyton Siva
SG: Thabo Sefolosha (38) l Landry Fields (7) l JJ Barea (3)
SF: Kawhi Leonard (40) l Landry Fields (8) l Teletovic
PF: Al Horford (30) l Brandon Bass (18) l
C: Tim Duncan (38) l Al Horford (10) l Aaron Gray

Pacers Depth Chart:

Jose Calderon (28) / Jarrett Jack (20) / Orlando Johnson
Klay Thompson (32) / Manu Ginobili (12) / Jarrett Jack (4)
Paul George (36) / Manu Ginobili (12) / Brandon Rush
David West (34) / Josh McRoberts (14) / Miles Plumlee
Roy Hibbert (34) / Brendan Haywood (14)

Bulls Write-up:


We like to congratulate the Pacers on their impressive playoff run and for building together a very sound team.

We feel like the Pacers have a nice balanced team thatís an inferior version of our team and here is why we feel this way.

PG battle: Jose Calderon/Jarret Jack vs Deron WIlliams

This is the biggest mismatch of this series by a landslide. Throughout the history of this battle, Deron has absolutely tore up Calderon, whether itís breaking his ankles, posting him up or getting by him consistently, this battle isnít even close.
Calderon is a huge liability defensively and is going to need help defense consistently, which will end up in a lot of open jump shots and layups for our team. The impact Calderon has on a team defensively doesnít get talked about much, but as someone whoís followed a majority of his career, it is absolutely brutal. Whether someone's a great individual defender or good help defender, with Jose Calderon guarding the lead points, everyone gets exposed and their defensive numbers look bad.

For example last year, while he was on the court for the Raptors they were a -3.1 and when he was of they were only a -.7. After getting traded to the Pistons, they were a -9.2 with him on the court and a -2.5 with him of it.
The individual stats also back this up. Using the team he had the bigger sample size with, Jose was ranked 226th as an overall defender giving up 0.88 PPP and ranked 192nd in Isoís (which Deron will be attacking him from consistently) giving up 0.85 PPP.
If the Pacers want to take Jose of Deron because of how badly heís getting abused and want to hide him on the 6í7 Thabo Sefolosha, then by means we welcome them to. Jose ranked 273rd in spot up defense giving up 1.05 PPP, and with how good of a shooter both Deron and Thabo are, this is a recipe for disaster for the Pacers. Taking a good defensive PG like Hill and replacing him with Jose Calderon is a humongous downgrade and WILL KILL the Pacers defensive efficiency from last year as a whole.

As bad as he is defensively, Calderon is kind of a black hole offensively, because he ruins the flow of an offense because of the way he holds onto the ball for a long time and has proven he canít play of the ball, which the Pacers will say he has to do for them, but if he hasnít adjusted before when they needed him to, why would he now? When the Raptors had Turk, who needed the ball in his hands consistently to be effective, Calderon refused to play off the ball and would create problems offensively for them. Heck even when they had Chris Bosh, he would refuse to dump it into the post to CB consistently. Which leads us to believe Calderonís numbers offensively are overrated and doesnít show his true game. The majority of Calderonís shot clock usage and assists comes within the 16-20 second range.

While the Pacers will bring in Jack with the second unit for defensive purposes to help guard and stop Deron, this wonít deter us either because of the flexibility our offense possess. According to Synergy, Jacks worst line of defense was his spot up defense where he ranked 296th allowing 1.07PPP, this can be the time where we feed our bigs and allow them to go to work.
Remember in the playoffs Deron shot 40% from 3 averaging about 6 a game.
Huge advantage: Bulls

SG battle: Thabo Sefolosha vs Klay Thompson
Both guys will be primarily used for their outside shooting.
Last year Klay averaged 40% from behind the arc.
Thabo shot 41% from behind the arc.
Both have their roles offensively and while Klay may be seen as a better contributor offensively, Thabo is the better defender of the two and for those reasons alone, we could consider this a wash or have no problem giving the Pacers a slight edge. But the edge wonít matter much because Klay isnít going to significantly outplay Thabo to the point, where its going to pose any threat to our team.

SF battle: Kawhi Leonard vs Paul George
Here we go, PSDís dream battle and two of PSDís favourite up and coming players. Both players have a bright future ahead of them and both took their game another level this past season.
PG is the guy we fully expect the Pacers to offensively revolve their game around and rightfully so. Thankfully for us, we have one of the top SF defenders in the game from this past season in Kawhi going up against him.
Kawhi ranked 87th overall as a defender allowing opponents to only shoot 38% from the field, and 58th handling the PnR ball handler, which PG would be mainly doing to try setting up their spot up shooters, but as evidenced by the rankings, this strategy wonít be causing much harm, nor breaking us down a ton.
Kawhi also ranks 68th in spot up defense allowing opponents to shoot 30% behind the arc. For someone like Paul George who shot only 33% from behind the arc in the playoffs, this fits perfectly with Kawhis strengths defensively.

Another key point to take in: PG was terribly inefficient in the playoffs and averaged about 4 TOís a game and struggled mightily shooting. Heís still inexperienced as a top option and maybe in a couple years from now, heíll have the experience and knowledge needed in order to being a top reliable option for a team and being able to carry a team far, but until he proves otherwise we donít think he can be the X-factor the Pacers think he can be to helping get by us.

PF Battle: Al Horford vs David West
Another favourable match up for us.
These past playoffs when the Hawks faced the Pacers, Horford had his way against the Pacers down low. Horford shot 50% from the field and averaged 17/9/3.
Horford spends most his time on offense being the roll man in the pick-and-roll; that makes up 20.1 percent of his possessions. He scores 1.3 PPP as the roll man, good for 46th-best in the league, according to Synergy. And while some of those rolls end in dunks or layups, plenty of them end in wide-open jumpers. (85.8 percent of his shots from 16-23 feet were assisted.)

With Calderon getting consistently beat of the dribble by Deron, this fits into Horfords strengths, as heíll be seeing a ton of wide open mid range shots and looks at an easy basket. Which lines up well for us because West allows 45% when he is trying to cover the PnR roller. We expect Horford to have a field day and be a really productive weapon for us this series.

Advantage: Bulls

Center battle: Tim Duncan vs Roy Hibbert
Here us another big favourable matchup for us. Duncan is one of the best defensive centers in this game and we have no doubt heíll be able to not only contain Hibbert from trying to create any offense, but get Hibbert into foul trouble game in and game out.
Hibbert ranked 169th as an overall defender last year allowing .86PPP
Ranked 149th on Isoís and 119th on spot ups. This is where Duncans patented and un stoppable of the backboard bankers come into play. Duncan shot 45% from 3-9 feet and 47% from 10-15 feet.
Hibbert also ranked 101st on defending post ups, which is a disaster waiting to happen against Duncan. Duncan ranked 28th in post up offense last year according to synergy scoring .93PPP.

We are fairly confident, Duncan will get the best of this match up by a good margin and the Pacers will have a tough time overcoming the strengths Deron and Duncan have together against their respective opponents.

Another big problem with Hibbert is the foul trouble heíll get into. The reason why he had a really good playoff outing was because he faced teams such as the Heat and Knicks, who donít really have 2 solid interior presences to match up against the Pacers duo. WIth that said Hibbert still managed to find himself in a heck of a lot of foul trouble and with Haywood as their main backup C. The Pacers are going to find themselves in a lot of trouble down low.

Advantage: Bulls by a decent margin

Benches: As everyone saw first hand, Manu is coming of arguably his worst playoff showing ever. A combination of turnovers, poor shooting %ís, worst year of his career and the inability of being that spark he usually is of the bench for the Spurs, has people wondering if father time has truly caught up with Manu? Either way we have the defense to continue forcing more turnovers and poor shots from Manu, not making him an effective weapon as he once was in the past.
Jack is a solid backup PG of the bench for the Pacers and in his limited time will be expected to add some offense of the bench and guard Deron a lot. The Pacers are also going to be counting on heavy minutes from Josh McRoberts and Brendan Haywood because of the foul trouble, their bigs are going to get into and neither guy is capable of holding down the fort against Timmy or Horford.

While we have JJ Barea, a superb 6th man coming of the bench, who is expected to add some offense and be a spark plug for us in his limited time on the court.
Then we have Brandon Bass, who is also a very solid shooter for a big and will help bring their bigs out to the perimeter more allowing more gaping holes for Deron and Barea to attack down low.

While people might give the Pacers a slight edge to the benches because of name value, we donít feel like its a significant advantage for them to overcome the mismatches we have in the starting 5.

In conclusion, we feel we are a better basketball club and over the course of a series, we will give the Pacers big fits and with the advantages we have in the starting 5, we donít see them possibly overcoming them in anyway to beat us in a series. Reiterating what we said earlier Paul George is a great up and coming player however he has proved that he is not consistent and efficient enough to be a #1 option especially with a defender like Kawhi Leonard on him. We will slow down their bigs forcing George to beat us which we feel he isnít ready to do yet.
Were the more balanced, the better rebounding and the more talented team overall compared to the Pacers.

Pacers Write-up:


Writeup vs Chicago
Key Point: The Chicago Bulls definitely have solid individual talent in their starting lineup, but they also have their flaws and weaknesses that we plan on exploiting throughout this series. We feel that we matchup well with all of their players and make it tough for them, especially on the defensive end.

Point Guard: Deron Williams/JJ Barea vs Jose Calderon/Jarrett Jack
Like our first 2 matchups, the opposing team admittedly has the best Point Guard in the matchup. Deron Williams may be able to beat Jose Calderon in several instances, but we have a great defensive anchor in Hibbert, and a great defensive team overall behind our Point Guards. Because Chicago has Sefolosha playing, whoís a complete offensive liability, we can use our SGís to shade Deron Williams and keep him from wreaking too much havoc against our PGís. Although Deron Williams is a threat offensively, he was pretty bad on defense. He only ranked 255th overall in isolation Defense, according to Synergy. Jarrett Jack was ranked 67th in isolation plays for offense, so we feel that we can take advantage of plays where we have Jack being guarded by Deron. Yes, Deron will at times have his way with our PGís, but our Point Guards will be able to attack Deron on the other side of the court as well when heís on the defensive.

Shooting Guard: Klay Thompson/Manu Ginobili vs Thabo Sefolosha/Landry Fields
This is where we feel we have a huge advantage. Thabo may be a good isolation defender, but heís completely invisible on the offensive side of the ball. He sparingly hits 3 point shots, but throughout most parts of the game he will be a complete non-factor on the offensive side of the ball. This severely screws up the Bulls offense because theyíll essentially be playing 4 on 5 on offense, and they donít have the 6th man on the bench to spare points, like Harden and Kevin Martin have for him in OKC all those past years. Landry Fields has been god awful ever since the first half of his rookie year and wonít change anything in this series. The Bulls will get NO SCORING PRODUCTION from their SG spotÖZERO, NONE. Neither of their SG's are good rebounders or playmakers either so the stat sheet will be pretty empty from the SG spot of their team. Whereas on our side, we have 2 solid scoring threats that can impact the game in many ways. Klay Thompson is a very solid scorer and obviously a deadly shooter that can spread the court, and behind him we have Manu Ginobili who can change games with his shooting, passing, slashing, and overall ability to make plays. Yes he struggled in the finals last year, but on that Spurs team he took on too big of a responsibility, as that team had absolutely no dependable backup PG so he had to take on too much ball-handling duties, causing him to force many TOís. On this team we have several ballhandlers to take the pressure off of him (Calderon, Jack, George), so he wonít deal with nearly as much pressure as he did in the finals last year. It may seem that Thabo would shut down Klay, but we can say that this is absolutely false, because where Klay thrives on defense, Thabo isnít so good. According to Synergy, Thabo allows 42.3% shooting on spot-up 3-point shots, so Klay will be able to work around screens/picks and have the chance to knockdown open shots. The fact that Thabo will have to play so much minutes will give us a huge advantage because our SGís can sort of play off of Thabo at times and shade or double Deron Williams to keep him from going off against our PGs. Like I said, we have a big advantage here.

Small Forward: Kawhi Leonard vs Paul George
Both players are young, up and coming stars in this league, and it should be a solid matchup between these 2. Because Paul George can impact the game in more ways, we have the advantage here. Both guys are great rebounders and defenders for their positions, but George has a better offensive game overall. He has the ability to create shots for himself and score at a higher rate than Kawhi, and heís also a great playmaker at his position as well. George can impact the game in almost every facet, whereas Kawhi depends on his PG for buckets more often and relies on things like put-backs and ďgarbage basketsĒ. I think with Paul Georgeís rebounding ability, as well as our bigs up front, weíll be able to keep Kawhi off the boards for those cleanup baskets unlike the Miami Heat were in the finals. George, being one of the elite defenders in the league, should do a good job of limiting Kawhi on the offensive side of the ball. Because Paul George has the ability to affect every facet in the game, we give him the advantage here as well.

Power Forward: Al Horford vs David West
Some may think that the Bulls have a clear advantage here, but looking at the production of these guys, http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=horfoal01&y1=2013&p2=westda01&y2=2013 , it appears that they are very evenly matched. Both guys are efficient offensively, and do a solid job defensively. Both guys are solid inside and out, and have the ability to impact games on the offensive end. These 2 guys can very well duel to a stalemate throughout this series.

Center: Tim Duncan vs Roy Hibbert
Both guys are great defensive anchors, and Hibbert in the playoffs showed that he can make a difference on the offensive end of the court, just like Duncan did last year as well. Hibbert has the ability on the defensive end to stifle Duncan and make things very difficult for him. Hibbert anchored the #2 defense in the league last year showing his elite defensive capabilities, and was a beast in the playoffs last year, making a huge impact in both the New York Knicks series and the Miami Heat series. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duncati01&y1=2013&p2=hibbero01&y2=2013 looking at those numbers and his overall impact on the game on the defensive end, it shows that Hibbert was even more effective than the great Tim Duncan in the playoffs last season. He was easily the best Center throughout those playoffs so thereís no reason to believe that Duncan would dominate this series. Hibbert would hold his own and his presence would be felt in this series with his ability to impact games on both sides of the court.
Bench:
Huge advantage for Indiana and itís not even close. Jack and Manu can impact the game in so many ways that nobody on the Chicago bench can. Landry Fields is pretty much a scrub and heíll play a lot of meaningful minutes since heís backing up both wing spots, and JJ Barea clearly isnít the same player that he was in his 2011 Mavs run. Manu and Jack also have certain advantages in their matchups that they can exploit and make us a much more dangerous and balanced offensive team.

Conclusion:
Chicago definitely has a solid big 4, but we have a great, balanced starting lineup, plus 2 heavy hitters coming off the bench that can make their marks throughout a playoff series. Jarrett Jack, Paul George, and Roy Hibbert all stood out in the playoffs last year and proved that they were big game players. We have more balance on our squad and arenít just dependent on 3 people to create all of our offense. We have the defensive gameplan, and players to stifle their offensive threats. Their team lacks balance in the starting lineup with Sefolosha being a complete liability and their backup Landry Fields giving them no scoring, rebound, or playmaking production from the SG spot. We have a HUGE advantage on the wings and will take advantage of it, and a huge advantage on our bench. The only true advantage they have is at PG, but Deron is a bad defender and can be taken advantage of on that side of the ball, and at C, but Hibbert is very solid on both sides of the court in his own right so that advantage isn't very big at all. Our team is just too balanced and will be too difficult to stop throughout a series with about 6 players capable of having great offensive games. Our team has the offensive balance, and the elite defensive talent to limit this Chicago Bulls squad, and win it in 7 games.

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 02:46 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? Same error again.

Shammyguy3
09-04-2013, 03:02 PM
:laugh2: don't worry PSK a mod will put up a poll.


@CHI/IND GMs... I'd like to see head-to-head numbers for each position over the past few years. And while yes Calderon is awful defensively, PG defense is arguably the least important as a whole. Right now, I think the Indy defense has the defenders to mitigate any open shots that yoour roster would have on the perimeter. Thabo/Kawhi are respectable 3-point shooters, but I think you may be asking them to take too many attempts to space the floor if the Pacers collapse into the paint.

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 03:03 PM
Apologize to the GMs for having to create the new thread. It is my fault for not letting the mods know the poll needs to be public. Unfortunately, I wasn't around when the poll was added and just caught it just now.

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 03:05 PM
:laugh2: don't worry PSK a mod will put up a poll.


This same error keeps happening every time I put up Saddler's matchups. It's annoying as hell lol.

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 03:08 PM
Not appropriate for the thread

Killerjug
09-04-2013, 03:09 PM
.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-04-2013, 03:24 PM
:laugh2: don't worry PSK a mod will put up a poll.


@CHI/IND GMs... I'd like to see head-to-head numbers for each position over the past few years. And while yes Calderon is awful defensively, PG defense is arguably the least important as a whole. Right now, I think the Indy defense has the defenders to mitigate any open shots that yoour roster would have on the perimeter. Thabo/Kawhi are respectable 3-point shooters, but I think you may be asking them to take too many attempts to space the floor if the Pacers collapse into the paint.

Hard to have a h2h for PG vs Kawhi because of the lmited sample size.

Horford matched up against Hibby IIRC in the playoffs, so can't give h2h for west vs horford.

Calderon wasn't on Deron all the time because after he kept getting eaten, they would take him of and put him on a spot up type of guy.

The only one you can get one for is Hibby n Timmy and Klay vs Thabo.
So I don't know if that would be enough to convince you.

Also I totally disagree on the PG defense not being important bro. It absolutely is crucial, if the PG can't defend the initial penetrator then that dissects the whole defense and puts them into a vulnerable predicament. Your forcing your big to leave a free guy in the paint, your forcing your wings to leave spot up shooters in the corner, your also leaving your bigs in a predicament to getting into foul trouble because of possible late rotation changes.

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 03:26 PM
Not appropriate for the thread.

Killerjug
09-04-2013, 03:29 PM
.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Basketball debates

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 03:35 PM
Not appropriate for the thread.

Rivera
09-04-2013, 03:35 PM
Vote #teamgr8ness Were controversy free

Eagles4Lyfe
09-04-2013, 03:38 PM
Vote #teamgr8ness Were controversy free

BullsNation all day
For real though lets get some basketball debates in here

Super.
09-04-2013, 03:41 PM
:laugh:

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 03:56 PM
Vote #teamgr8ness Were controversy free

Uh, you sure about that? Cause you're damn write-ups are the reasons I can't post the poll in the first place :laugh:

Although I honestly want to know why I keep getting errors on your matchups. I'm actually pretty sure it can't be your write-ups since the Bulls/Knicks write-ups have been just as long and their matchups have posted fine. Maybe it's just a weird unexplainable coincidence.

Rivera
09-04-2013, 03:58 PM
BullsNation all day
For real though lets get some basketball debates in here

I can't get to in detail right now I'm heading in to my last class but your team is gonna struggle to score your shooters are streaky and as big as a mismatch you claim Deron is over Jose its the least important defensive postion and Deron has struggled with his shooting and has seen a decline in his game and he's the engine to your team

Klay Will be the primary defender on him cutting the head of the snake if you will which leaves jose on thabo and thabo isn't a threat offensively

Your offense has holes ours doesn't. The biggest weakness was our ball handling and shooting and bench. Those are fixed. Jose proects well. Klay Manu Jack and Jose are reliable snipers and jack/Manu bench combo is deadly. We have so much length defensively it's scary


Did I mention Paul George is 6'10? He grew two inches

Killerjug
09-04-2013, 04:02 PM
I can't get to in detail right now I'm heading in to my last class but your team is gonna struggle to score your shooters are streaky and as big as a mismatch you claim Deron is over Jose its the least important defensive postion and Deron has struggled with his shooting and has seen a decline in his game and he's the engine to your team

Klay Will be the primary defender on him cutting the head of the snake if you will which leaves jose on thabo and thabo isn't a threat offensively

Your offense has holes ours doesn't. The biggest weakness was our ball handling and shooting and bench. Those are fixed. Jose proects well. Klay Manu Jack and Jose are reliable snipers and jack/Manu bench combo is deadly. We have so much length defensively it's scary


Did I mention Paul George is 6'10? He grew two inches

Deron Williams was actually pretty damn good last year

PatsSoxKnicks
09-04-2013, 04:03 PM
Have to read the write-ups but see some possible cross matchups the Pacers could do to make it interesting: put PG on Deron, Klay on Kawhi and Calderon on Thabo. I could see Deron struggling a bit with PG on him. The issue then is how the frontcourts match up which is very intriguing.

Sadds The Gr8
09-04-2013, 05:12 PM
Shammy is right about pPG defense not being as important. Especially when u have great defenders covering upppp for that pg. As well like we do.

Plus deron isn't good on D either like I pointed out in my writeupp. Jack can attack deron on that end.

Sry. About the random pperiods....my black berry sucks dick

Sadds The Gr8
09-04-2013, 05:17 PM
We also will use klay to shade dwill and paly off of thabo on some possessions because thabo is horrible on offense and althought he shot 40 percent from 3 last year. He dooesnt take a high volume whichj works for us. If they wanna beat us with thabo shooting go ahead.pl

KnicksorBust
09-04-2013, 06:18 PM
I'll come back when this poll nonsense is sorted out.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-04-2013, 06:28 PM
Have to read the write-ups but see some possible cross matchups the Pacers could do to make it interesting: put PG on Deron, Klay on Kawhi and Calderon on Thabo. I could see Deron struggling a bit with PG on him. The issue then is how the frontcourts match up which is very intriguing.

Once you read our write up PSK, you'll understand why the Pacers wouldn't want any of this.
Duncan ranked really high according to Synergy on post up offense and Hibbert sucked at it. Not to mention unlike other teams the Pacers have faced thus far, our bigs are able to spread and space the floor, meaning when Deron blows by Jose or Jack, can Hibbert quickly leave Duncan and come cover the open lane, or will he give Duncan an open lay up or easy shots from the 3-9 range, in which Duncan makes at a high clip from that spot.

This isn't even factoring in the amazing Horford, who's one of the best shooting big men in the game of the PnR. I'll copy and paste from the write up if you want, but your going to read it anyways so I'll save the trouble.

The biggest problem for the Pacers is going to be the foul trouble their bigs are going to get in.


Shammy is right about pPG defense not being as important. Especially when u have great defenders covering upppp for that pg. As well like we do.

Plus deron isn't good on D either like I pointed out in my writeupp. Jack can attack deron on that end.

Sry. About the random pperiods....my black berry sucks dick

I was waiting for this comment. Calderon is in the game for 28 minutes, by then the damage will be done by his horrible defense. Like we stated in our original write up's, if PG defense isn't important then why is there such a significant drop of when Calderon is on and off the floor for his respective teams?

We saw as Raptors fans, how horrible our defense was everytime he was on the court, the foul trouble our bigs kept getting in trying to cover up his deficiencies.

Also Deron WIlliams ranks 32nd in Iso offense and 10th in the post up. The exact same situations I described he abused Calderon with.

Also when Jack is in the game, your team is basically like the real life Pacers all defensive unit, that'll struggle for offense and everything will have to run through the inefficient Paul George. Is that what you guys want?

One more thing, Calderon is and never will be an Iso PG, early on in his career he used to attack defenders more but as the years had progressed, his attacking the basket has regressed. He's always been a PnR PG, not an ISO and he's not going to be getting by Deron consistently at all, even if Deron is a bad defender like you say.
He ranked 127th in Iso offense last year.



We also will use klay to shade dwill and paly off of thabo on some possessions because thabo is horrible on offense and althought he shot 40 percent from 3 last year. He dooesnt take a high volume whichj works for us. If they wanna beat us with thabo shooting go ahead.pl

Like we stated in the write up, we expected you guys to hide Calderon on Thabo. But like we said then good luck, Calderon guarding a 6'7 spot up shooter in Thabo is asking for tons of trouble, to go along with how horrible Calderons synergy numbers suggest he is guarding spot ups, were perfectly fine.

Thabo shot 42% on about 3 attempts per game in 27 minutes, with more minutes it can only go up.

Also if you want to put Klay on Deron then Klay was just as bad defending Iso's as Calderon was.
Klay ranked 139th defending Iso's

You guys also keep saying Klay is going to offer more than Thabo on offense, but what is he going to do?
Klay ranks 198th on Iso offense averaging .56PPP. 177th in PnR ball handling averaging .57PPP.
So are you guys going to switch up your offensive strategy and take the ball out of PG's hands and put it in Klay's now?

Like you stated Klay's offense is based of screens and spot up shooting, which we originally stated in our write up, why would you want to take him away from his strengths and make him play towards his weakness?

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 06:42 PM
poll is up

Killerjug
09-04-2013, 06:43 PM
thanks hawk

Eagles4Lyfe
09-04-2013, 06:46 PM
ayyy a poll thanks hawkules

Sadds The Gr8
09-04-2013, 07:14 PM
We. Aren't using klay to guard dwill we're using hin to shade, like a double team sort of...kinda like spurs did against lebron in the finals. I'll gladly let thabo shoot volume 3s...he's not a good shoooter like that

KnicksorBust
09-04-2013, 08:48 PM
Pacers have the better writeup but Bulls have the better team.

KnicksorBust
09-05-2013, 12:11 PM
Pacers barely putting up any fight. Weak.

Sadds The Gr8
09-05-2013, 01:16 PM
Once you read our write up PSK, you'll understand why the Pacers wouldn't want any of this.
Duncan ranked really high according to Synergy on post up offense and Hibbert sucked at it. Not to mention unlike other teams the Pacers have faced thus far, our bigs are able to spread and space the floor, meaning when Deron blows by Jose or Jack, can Hibbert quickly leave Duncan and come cover the open lane, or will he give Duncan an open lay up or easy shots from the 3-9 range, in which Duncan makes at a high clip from that spot.

This isn't even factoring in the amazing Horford, who's one of the best shooting big men in the game of the PnR. I'll copy and paste from the write up if you want, but your going to read it anyways so I'll save the trouble.

The biggest problem for the Pacers is going to be the foul trouble their bigs are going to get in.



I was waiting for this comment. Calderon is in the game for 28 minutes, by then the damage will be done by his horrible defense. Like we stated in our original write up's, if PG defense isn't important then why is there such a significant drop of when Calderon is on and off the floor for his respective teams?

We saw as Raptors fans, how horrible our defense was everytime he was on the court, the foul trouble our bigs kept getting in trying to cover up his deficiencies.

Also Deron WIlliams ranks 32nd in Iso offense and 10th in the post up. The exact same situations I described he abused Calderon with.

Also when Jack is in the game, your team is basically like the real life Pacers all defensive unit, that'll struggle for offense and everything will have to run through the inefficient Paul George. Is that what you guys want?

One more thing, Calderon is and never will be an Iso PG, early on in his career he used to attack defenders more but as the years had progressed, his attacking the basket has regressed. He's always been a PnR PG, not an ISO and he's not going to be getting by Deron consistently at all, even if Deron is a bad defender like you say.
He ranked 127th in Iso offense last year.




Like we stated in the write up, we expected you guys to hide Calderon on Thabo. But like we said then good luck, Calderon guarding a 6'7 spot up shooter in Thabo is asking for tons of trouble, to go along with how horrible Calderons synergy numbers suggest he is guarding spot ups, were perfectly fine.

Thabo shot 42% on about 3 attempts per game in 27 minutes, with more minutes it can only go up.

Also if you want to put Klay on Deron then Klay was just as bad defending Iso's as Calderon was.
Klay ranked 139th defending Iso's

You guys also keep saying Klay is going to offer more than Thabo on offense, but what is he going to do?
Klay ranks 198th on Iso offense averaging .56PPP. 177th in PnR ball handling averaging .57PPP.
So are you guys going to switch up your offensive strategy and take the ball out of PG's hands and put it in Klay's now?

Like you stated Klay's offense is based of screens and spot up shooting, which we originally stated in our write up, why would you want to take him away from his strengths and make him play towards his weakness?
how are we taking Klay away from his strengths? I said that's what we'll be doing. running him off screens and letting him spot up, and Thabo doesn't guard spotups well according to synergy.

and we aren't Isolating with Calderon, we're isolating with Jack. Calderon will be PnR as usual, and he's a passer out of the PnR not a scorer so Deron's PnR defense won't mean much

Sadds The Gr8
09-05-2013, 01:18 PM
Pacers barely putting up any fight. Weak.

like 3 people have said we had the better writeup (including you), yet voted for them. so what's the point in reiterating?

Sadds The Gr8
09-05-2013, 01:31 PM
Once you read our write up PSK, you'll understand why the Pacers wouldn't want any of this.
Duncan ranked really high according to Synergy on post up offense and Hibbert sucked at it. Not to mention unlike other teams the Pacers have faced thus far, our bigs are able to spread and space the floor, meaning when Deron blows by Jose or Jack, can Hibbert quickly leave Duncan and come cover the open lane, or will he give Duncan an open lay up or easy shots from the 3-9 range, in which Duncan makes at a high clip from that spot.
lol how can you spread the floor from 3 ft? that isn't much of a recovery at all, and if u want to make duncan take 15 footers, be my guest. I'll let him take those all series long we'll just have Hibbert patrolling the middle


This isn't even factoring in the amazing Horford, who's one of the best shooting big men in the game of the PnR. I'll copy and paste from the write up if you want, but your going to read it anyways so I'll save the trouble.

The biggest problem for the Pacers is going to be the foul trouble their bigs are going to get in.

how if you plan on "spreading the floor" the whole game? you just said your gameplan was to spread the floor with bigs so Dwill can slash. also hibbert did a damn good job of staying out of foul trouble in the playoffs


I was waiting for this comment. Calderon is in the game for 28 minutes, by then the damage will be done by his horrible defense. Like we stated in our original write up's, if PG defense isn't important then why is there such a significant drop of when Calderon is on and off the floor for his respective teams?
none of those tams had this defense. he had the crappy Bargnani as a defensive anchor, you know it and I know it. he's not a good defender, but having Hibbert will definitely help, and like I said we're shading Klay.


Also when Jack is in the game, your team is basically like the real life Pacers all defensive unit, that'll struggle for offense and everything will have to run through the inefficient Paul George. Is that what you guys want?
false because Jack is a better 1v1 scorer than Hill. And George isn't inefficient, don't know where that's coming from. He turned the ball over alot because he had a **** playmaking PG that couldn't run a team. We have Manu, Jack, Calderon to take pressure off of George so he doesn't have to have all the ballhandling duties.


One more thing, Calderon is and never will be an Iso PG, early on in his career he used to attack defenders more but as the years had progressed, his attacking the basket has regressed. He's always been a PnR PG, not an ISO and he's not going to be getting by Deron consistently at all, even if Deron is a bad defender like you say.
He ranked 127th in Iso offense last year.


never said we're gonna Iso Jose, said we're gonna Iso Jack.


Like we stated in the write up, we expected you guys to hide Calderon on Thabo. But like we said then good luck, Calderon guarding a 6'7 spot up shooter in Thabo is asking for tons of trouble, to go along with how horrible Calderons synergy numbers suggest he is guarding spot ups, were perfectly fine.
not hiding Jose on Thabo, we're using Jose to guard Deron, and Klay to shade for the 10000th time


Thabo shot 42% on about 3 attempts per game in 27 minutes, with more minutes it can only go up.
no it cant lol. he's clearly not a volume shooter and can only shoot at certain spots. if he was so good he'd shoot it more. Also playing Thabo lots of minutes makes your offense way easier to guard. he adds close to 0 scoring and doesn't do anything else on offense like ball handle or pass, so Klay will shade off him and help guard Deron.




You guys also keep saying Klay is going to offer more than Thabo on offense, but what is he going to do?
Klay ranks 198th on Iso offense averaging .56PPP. 177th in PnR ball handling averaging .57PPP.
So are you guys going to switch up your offensive strategy and take the ball out of PG's hands and put it in Klay's now?
he's gonna spot up and shoot, like I said in teh writeup Thabo doesn't guard spot up shooters well.


Like you stated Klay's offense is based of screens and spot up shooting, which we originally stated in our write up, why would you want to take him away from his strengths and make him play towards his weakness?never said we were

Shammyguy3
09-05-2013, 04:08 PM
Sadds, i still haven't decided so continue arguing your case. I voted the Bulls as the #1 seed in the rankings but you guys matchup really well with them, and they can't exploit your defense like I thought they could exploit the Knicks' defense in the last round.

Ebbs
09-06-2013, 02:02 AM
Honestly Pacers would keep this close. I think they matchup well

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2013, 02:29 AM
we're way deeper and have more balance. the only big advantage they can argue is at PG but Deron sucks on D and we have a way better bench and wing players.

Shammyguy3
09-06-2013, 12:08 PM
I'm starting to lean towards the Pacers (even though it doesn't matter at this point). I think the Bulls will struggle to score more than the Pacers will this round honestly, and each team's defense is top notch.

Killerjug
09-06-2013, 12:12 PM
we're way deeper and have more balance. the only big advantage they can argue is at PG but Deron sucks on D and we have a way better bench and wing players.

think its pretty safe to say that duncan is better than hibbert and Gimme Horford over west

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2013, 12:30 PM
think its pretty safe to say that duncan is better than hibbert and Gimme Horford over west

those aren't big advantages though. hibbert and west pretty much matched both of those guys' production if we include postseason

Killerjug
09-06-2013, 12:43 PM
I dont see how George over Kawhi and Klay over Thabo are huge advantages either. Kawhi tore it up towards the end of the playoffs if were counting that. He was also much more efficient than PG in the playoffs

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2013, 12:49 PM
I dont see how George over Kawhi and Klay over Thabo are huge advantages either. Kawhi tore it up towards the end of the playoffs if were counting that. He was also much more efficient than PG in the playoffs

it's the collection of Klay AND Manu over Thabo and Fields. Thabo is a 1 dimensional player that is gonna play 30+ mins and he doesn't have a 6th man to spell him points...Thabo doesn't contribute in a single area except defense. And Fields is a 0 dimensional player AKA he sucks. And George is better overall than Kawhi because he can do more things. Kawhi is a more efficient scorer because he's sort of like Matrix where he gets garbage pts and wide open 3pt shots.

With me having a big advantage at SG, and a slight advantage at SF, I'd say that's a huge advantage at the wing spots...

Killerjug
09-06-2013, 12:55 PM
He is our 5th option on offense we don't need him to produce all that much. He is an efficient 3 point shooter that will make some spot up shots each game. That's like me saying that we have Duncan Horford and Bass vs Hibbert West McRoberts and Haywood which is a significant advantage to us. Hibbert's numbers in the playoffs are also nerfed because of the Heat series. Against the Knicks and Tyson he put up 14,6,24,6,9,21. In this series he's going up against a superior defender in Tim Duncan so theres no reason to believe that his production wouldn't go down even further

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2013, 02:23 PM
He is our 5th option on offense we don't need him to produce all that much. He is an efficient 3 point shooter that will make some spot up shots each game. That's like me saying that we have Duncan Horford and Bass vs Hibbert West McRoberts and Haywood which is a significant advantage to us. Hibbert's numbers in the playoffs are also nerfed because of the Heat series. Against the Knicks and Tyson he put up 14,6,24,6,9,21. In this series he's going up against a superior defender in Tim Duncan so theres no reason to believe that his production wouldn't go down even further

That's different because those guys aren't limited in the way that Thabo is. We're gonna essentially play off of him because he isn't a volume shooter, and Klay will shade DWill to help limit his effectiveness. Then my bigs will be able to hold their own versus your bigs. We're great defensively and have the guys to counterpart your stars. I think our bench will be huge in this series too. Nobody on your bench is touching Manu or Jack.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-06-2013, 02:25 PM
^^ you WERE, key word were great as a defensive unit, until Jose Calderon came around.
One thing I thought you guys should've done was start Jack for this matchup.
I think you would've definitely sold more people.

Ebbs
09-06-2013, 02:27 PM
Lets be honest Jose when not make them much worse defensively if at all

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2013, 02:30 PM
Lets be honest Jose when not make them much worse defensively if at all

exactly lol. lots of teams get away with **** defensive PG's but have a good defense.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-06-2013, 02:38 PM
Lets be honest Jose when not make them much worse defensively if at all

You must not know Jose very well then.
I don't want to sound like MBT, so don't take this negatively, but try watching him for 4-5 years starting at PG. He has to be the worst defensive PG in the league.

Rivera
09-06-2013, 02:41 PM
You must not know Jose very well then.
I don't want to sound like MBT, so don't take this negatively, but try watching him for 4-5 years starting at PG. He has to be the worst defensive PG in the league.


He also had bargs and Amir Johnson having his back compared to hibby west n George

Eagles4Lyfe
09-06-2013, 02:41 PM
exactly lol. lots of teams get away with **** defensive PG's but have a good defense.

Like?
Grizz? Have Conley
Bulls? Rose is a solid defender
Pacers? Hill
Spurs? Parker
Heat? Chalmers
Celtics? Rondo

Just of the top of my head but all these PG's are solid defenders if not really good.
Calderon is the total opposite and I provided the stats of a teams defense when he's on and off the floor.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-06-2013, 02:42 PM
He also had bargs and Amir Johnson having his back compared to hibby west n George

He had Monroe and Drummond last year in Detroit and it was the same thing

Also as i pointed out Hibbert found himself in foul trouble against the Knicks for example a team that didn't even have a C posing a threat to him offensively. So where are the fouls coming from? Obviously his help defense must be suspect

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2013, 02:53 PM
Like?
Grizz? Have Conley
Bulls? Rose is a solid defender
Pacers? Hill
Spurs? Parker
Heat? Chalmers
Celtics? Rondo

Just of the top of my head but all these PG's are solid defenders if not really good.
Calderon is the total opposite and I provided the stats of a teams defense when he's on and off the floor.
Parker isn't a good defender

and a couple years ago when Rose wasnt a good defender yet the Bulls were still good on D. Jose alone won't make our defense bad...we're still elite with him on the floor

Eagles4Lyfe
09-06-2013, 03:05 PM
Parker isn't a good defender

and a couple years ago when Rose wasnt a good defender yet the Bulls were still good on D. Jose alone won't make our defense bad...we're still elite with him on the floor

lol bro I was genuinely asking cause I wasn't sure myself.
What are some teams that have a sick defense with a suss PG defending?

Your an elite defensive team no doubting that, just like we are but individually you have some weak spots, and unfortunately for you the 2 weak individual defenders on your starting 5 are facing of the 2 best players on my team. Hibbert and Caldys synergy stats also backup my claims.

The thing that confuses me is how you guys can simply just say PG defense won't matter, cmon bro that's key. If his man gets by him your whole defense as a whole is in a bad predicament

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2013, 03:08 PM
lol bro I was genuinely asking cause I wasn't sure myself.
What are some teams that have a sick defense with a suss PG defending?

Your an elite defensive team no doubting that, just like we are but individually you have some weak spots, and unfortunately for you the 2 weak individual defenders on your starting 5 are facing of the 2 best players on my team. Hibbert and Caldys synergy stats also backup my claims.

The thing that confuses me is how you guys can simply just say PG defense won't matter, cmon bro that's key. If his man gets by him your whole defense as a whole is in a bad predicament
im not saying it isnt important, but everyone knows its the least important. No PG shuts another PG down in a series now days they're all way too quick to guard each other...for example Chris Paul is the best defending PG but Parker always seems to own him when they've matched up in recent years

Rivera
09-06-2013, 03:26 PM
Jameer Nelson is one of the worst defender s I've ever seen and when Dwight was there Orlando was a top 5 defense continuously without a real perimeter defender


Monroe has horrible help D and dre played like 12 min a game.

Your point is invalid. Pg defense is the least important part of defense in a team defensive concept

Shammyguy3
09-06-2013, 04:11 PM
After deliberating some more, I think I'm actually taking the Pacers in this series. I think West/Hibbert can match the production of Horford/Duncan in this series. The Bulls bench is awful, and although nearly every starter is playing 40 minutes, i think the Bulls will be in foul trouble more often than the Pacers which forces the Bulls to utilize their bench slightly too much. The Pacers will pack the paint and force Thabo/Fields/Leonard to take dozens of outside shots. Calderon's defense is overblown - this Pacers defense is phenomenal all-around. I value their depth a lot on the perimeter, and that's ultimately what changed my mind.

Pacers win in 7 games. Unfortunately, this matchup was decided days ago.

Durant is hype
09-07-2013, 05:07 PM
Jameer Nelson is one of the worst defender s I've ever seen and when Dwight was there Orlando was a top 5 defense continuously without a real perimeter defender


Monroe has horrible help D and dre played like 12 min a game.

Your point is invalid. Pg defense is the least important part of defense in a team defensive concept

This. Defense is a team activity.

king4day
09-08-2013, 11:23 AM
This thread too... Stunned how lopsided it is. Pacers with a superior bench and fairly even starting lineup. I think people see Deron and Duncan and think 5 years ago.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-08-2013, 06:38 PM
This thread too... Stunned how lopsided it is. Pacers with a superior bench and fairly even starting lineup. I think people see Deron and Duncan and think 5 years ago.

No people see Deron n Duncan and think 2012/13 season+playoffs.

Super.
09-08-2013, 06:54 PM
No people see Deron n Duncan and think 2012/13 season+playoffs.

doubtful. people see name value and vote without thinking about it

Sadds The Gr8
09-08-2013, 08:02 PM
This thread too... Stunned how lopsided it is. Pacers with a superior bench and fairly even starting lineup. I think people see Deron and Duncan and think 5 years ago.


doubtful. people see name value and vote without thinking about it

yup

Eagles4Lyfe
09-08-2013, 09:21 PM
Wait what?
Did y'all miss the fact that Duncan was arguably the top center last year and that once Deron started getting healthier he was an absolute beast in the 2nd half, playoffs included.
Add that to the fact Kawhi and Duncan had a really good finals and you guys are saying they are only getting credit because of name value?

If you want to talk about overrated, then look at Calderon and PG