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View Full Version : You are Mark Jackson, who do you make the 6th man: Thompson, Barnes, or even Iggy?



LTBaByyy
08-31-2013, 11:19 AM
Usually you want your 6th man to have a skill set like Thompson, come in the game and hit 3's to spark the team and crowd

You can sit Barnes and limit his potential because you rather have Iggy as the SF

Or you can make Iggy a super sub like Manu has done for the spurs for years! He can play the 2, 3, and 4. So having him as an elite 6th man would be not as crazy as people think. It also wont limit Thompson and Barnes

Hawkeye15
08-31-2013, 11:25 AM
I am bringing Thompson off the bench

kozelkid
08-31-2013, 11:28 AM
Iggy definitely starts so it comes down to Thompson or Barnes for me. I think I'd lean towards Barnes off the bench given that Thompson is the better defender.

COOLbeans
08-31-2013, 12:35 PM
Barnes. He's had the least amount of time in the league, and a la Harden, he will learn how to be a leader of men from the bench since he'll be the best bench player on the floor during most nights.

Barnes will be top 5 for 6th man candidate

COOLbeans
08-31-2013, 12:36 PM
Thompson seriously is more than just a shooter.

Sadds The Gr8
08-31-2013, 12:40 PM
Barnes. I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the Warriors now though. Not sure they'll be as good as everyone thinks.

shep33
08-31-2013, 01:00 PM
I say Barnes because the chemistry between Steph and Klay is pretty good already. They space the floor so well that it leaves Lee with room to operate.

It's just too dynamic not have steph and Klay on the court at the same time.

All that being said, Barnes is going to get a **** load of minutes just like Harden. Plus I think Barnes is a bit more versatile than Klay so you can put him at the 2 or 3.

ManRam
08-31-2013, 01:02 PM
Barnes. I don't think they need to get too clever or over think things here. Iggy obviously starts...there's no reason to have him play a 6th man role. That defense needs to be out there from the get go.

Barnes still has some work to do to prove to me that he's a really good player. He showed some flashes in the playoffs but in the regular season he wasn't too special.

LTBaByyy
08-31-2013, 01:17 PM
Y'all slipping on Barnes. He can be just like Deng

Klay needs to be the 6th man so he can be instant offense

Goose17
08-31-2013, 01:19 PM
Barnes. I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the Warriors now though. Not sure they'll be as good as everyone thinks.

Care to elaborate?


My choice is Barnes. Three things I want to say;

1. He's not going to have his growth stunted, plenty of guys started their career coming off the bench and it didn't do them any harm in their development. Paul George never played more than 30 mpg until last year, 26 mpg was enough for Kobe to develop, 28 mpg was enough for Manu, plus there was James Harden, Joe Johnson, Rajon Rondo and Chauncey Billups to name but a few. Coming off the bench as a sixth man doesn't mean you can't develop your game or that it will slow you down any.

2. Having Klay and Curry on the court at the same time will spread the floor better and give us a constant outside threat, having Iggy playing at the same time gives us something we haven't really had, a dynamic slasher. Iggy doesn't get a lot of points, but even having him slashing will help draw guys inside and open up our perimeter shooting, I can't wait to see him kicking it out to Curry and Klay.

3. Barnes is going to be a great two-way player and is more sixth man material imho. He has the benefit of being a super-sub. Playing either wing position and even some 4 if we need to go small like we did against Denver in the post season.

Sadds The Gr8
08-31-2013, 01:35 PM
Care to elaborate?


I don't know if they'll score as well. Losing Jack and Landry was huge and by starting Iggy they lose the thing that made them unique, which is the godly amount of 3pters they take and make. I'm not saying they're gonna be garbage or anything, I just don't think they're THAT good. I still think they're a playoff team.

Sly Guy
08-31-2013, 01:42 PM
Barnes. I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the Warriors now though. Not sure they'll be as good as everyone thinks.

I'm not. They look really good.

MrfadeawayJB
08-31-2013, 02:09 PM
I'd bring Barnes off the bench. I do think in a short amount of time, Barnes will be the better overall player. Barnes play style is better for the second unit, as he can score in a multitude of ways

John Walls Era
08-31-2013, 02:15 PM
Barnes.

Ebbs
08-31-2013, 02:17 PM
Barnes but Iggy IMO can play 1-3 so he would be good if he was the youngest.

Bruno
08-31-2013, 02:25 PM
Thompson, mainly so that he can play a Hardenesque roll off the bench for offense when the starters take a breather. There's 96 minutes a game available for Golden State at the SG and SF positions. I'd play Thompson/Barnes/Iggy all about 32 minutes a game during the regular season; achieve a healthy balance and leave them all with their legs and some gas left in the tank for the post-season.

if thompsons efficiency or three point success drops off without curry next to him as starter- go barnes off the bench.
barnes or thompson. iggy should start at the three.

Goose17
08-31-2013, 02:42 PM
I don't know if they'll score as well. Losing Jack and Landry was huge and by starting Iggy they lose the thing that made them unique, which is the godly amount of 3pters they take and make. I'm not saying they're gonna be garbage or anything, I just don't think they're THAT good. I still think they're a playoff team.

Well we lost Jack and Landry, but Speights can do what Landry did just as well, and he has a better mid range game. Jack is the difficult one, I'm comfortable having Iggy as a secondary ball handler but I can't say for sure it will work until I actually see it (although I think it will) and Douglas might not be the same in terms of scoring but he's a much better defender than Jack and our offense will flow better without Jack, he suffered from tunnel vision at times.

I don't know why people are so high on Jack and Landry, they're both good players but both easily replaced, they'r just generic NBA players. It's not like we just lost Durant or Lebron. Our roster is significantly better this year. We're far more versatile.

I don't think we've lost our 3 point shooting. Our 3 point shooting came mainly from the splash brothers, Curry and Klay. Barnes is decent from the perimeter but not elite. And we still have Barnes. We haven't lost any of our 3 point shooting at all :/


Our biggest weaknesses last season were a lack of athleticism and streaky perimeter defense, Iggy fixes both of those.


Your entitled to your concerns though, obviously. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Guppyfighter
08-31-2013, 02:48 PM
Landry was a hyper efficient role player is why people were high on him. It's also why our front office tried to trade Lee for a really bad Bargs, so they could re-sign both Landry and Jack.

Not sure streaky perimeter defense is actually a thing that can be called a weakness. We were the fifth best three point defensive team. Not so streaky. Don't come yell anecdotal evidence about the Rockets lighting us up either.

Our biggest defensive weakness was spot up shooting. Iggy's best defensive trait is defending the spot up.

Sadds The Gr8
08-31-2013, 03:15 PM
yea like Guppy said, Landry was very efficient. Speights isn't as good as Landry and can probably only do like 55-60% of what Landry can. And Jack was great in the playoffs.

Goose17
08-31-2013, 03:20 PM
Landry was a hyper efficient role player is why people were high on him.


Right, but it's not like those sort of players are hard to come by. I really like Landry, he helped us a lot. But let's not pretend he was anything other than a role player. Speights fills his spot beautifully.



Not sure streaky perimeter defense is actually a thing that can be called a weakness.

What would you call it then? A strength? We were playing better D before the all star break than we were after it, especially on the perimeter.



We were the fifth best three point defensive team. Not so streaky. Don't come yell anecdotal evidence about the Rockets lighting us up either.

But guarding the three point is just one aspect of perimeter defense. We didn't do a very good job at forcing guys to their weak side and we certainly weren't good at stopping penetration. After the all star break some guys even seemed to forget the basics like "Hands down, man down". They wouldn't even bother shots effectively and they left their feet far to often, Klay was a great defender but worryingly he was biting on a lot of fakes some games.

Guppyfighter
08-31-2013, 03:29 PM
Right, but it's not like those sort of players are hard to come by. I really like Landry, he helped us a lot. But let's not pretend he was anything other than a role player. Speights fills his spot beautifully.



What would you call it then? A strength? We were playing better D before the all star break than we were after it, especially on the perimeter.



But guarding the three point is just one aspect of perimeter defense. We didn't do a very good job at forcing guys to their weak side and we certainly weren't good at stopping penetration. After the all star break some guys even seemed to forget the basics like "Hands down, man down". They wouldn't even bother shots effectively and they left their feet far to often, Klay was a great defender but worryingly he was biting on a lot of fakes some games.


Not good at stopping penetration? We allowed the fourth least amount of shots at the rim, dude.

TheNumber37
08-31-2013, 03:44 PM
iggy is the ultimate glue giy/slack picker upper.

He needs to play with guys who he can make better and make their game easier. On this team that's most beneficial to Curry and Thompson, so there it is... Barnes will be a.solid 15 and 5 off the bench.

Goose17
08-31-2013, 04:16 PM
yea like Guppy said, Landry was very efficient. Speights isn't as good as Landry and can probably only do like 55-60% of what Landry can. And Jack was great in the playoffs.

Lol. How is Speights not as good? Specifics please.

Speights is far superior from mid-range. He's just as good at rebounding, maybe slightly better. And last season Speights had the better PER

The only thing Landry does better is scoring in close.

Guppyfighter
08-31-2013, 04:20 PM
Lol. How is Speights not as good? Specifics please.

Because he's pretty inefficient compared to Landry. Better at the midrange, but doesn't finish as well near the rim.

Goose17
08-31-2013, 04:21 PM
Not good at stopping penetration? We allowed the fourth least amount of shots at the rim, dude.

Link?

Goose17
08-31-2013, 04:22 PM
Because he's pretty inefficient compared to Landry. Better at the midrange, but doesn't finish as well near the rim.

He has a better PER but is less efficient? He rebounds better and has a better midrange. Landry has better inside scoring, that's it.

Speights is just as good as Landry. The difference is minimal. You could argue he's a better fit because of the spacing he gives us.

Guppyfighter
08-31-2013, 04:28 PM
He has a better PER but is less efficient? He rebounds better and has a better midrange. Landry has better inside scoring, that's it.

Speights is just as good as Landry. The difference is minimal. You could argue he's a better fit because of the spacing he gives us.

Despite PER's name it's not a measure of efficiency. It's a measure of production. It's a box score aggregate.

Landry's 600 TS blows Speights TS out of the water.

Guppyfighter
08-31-2013, 04:31 PM
Link?

mysynergysports.com for all your stats necessary information. Teams took the fifth three point shots against us in the entire league too if you wanted to know that. I mean, how could you miss it though? That was our game plan. We sagged off so teams would shoot jumpers. It's why we allowed to little penetration.

Goose17
08-31-2013, 04:35 PM
Despite PER's name it's not a measure of efficiency. It's a measure of production. It's a box score aggregate.

Landry's 600 TS blows Speights TS out of the water.

It does, but it helps when you're taking 36% of your shots under the basket like Landry was. If you take higher percentage shots you're going to score a higher percentage, pretty basic. He barely hit over 40% on jump shots, comparable to Speights. But throughout his career Speights has been the better midrange shooter.

On top of that Speights was better at crashing the glass (TRB%), blocking shots (BLK%) and turned the ball over less (TO%).


Like I said, Landry's only advantage is his inside game.


Two quick questions,

1. Do you think Speights or Landry would be a better fit for the current squad?

2. Which roster do you think is better. This year or last year?

Goose17
08-31-2013, 04:38 PM
mysynergysports.com for all your stats necessary information.

I don't have a subscription so unless you're willing to take a screenshot I'll just have to take your word for it.



I mean, how could you miss it though? That was our game plan. We sagged off so teams would shoot jumpers. It's why we allowed to little penetration.

Right. But the plan doesn't always work.

I'm talking about what I saw, not the numbers. I saw Klay and Barnes let way too many guys blow by them for my liking. Some nights they were locking guys down, other nights they were really struggling. That's what I mean by streaky. And like I said, we weren't forcing guys to their weakside enough or bothering shots as much after the all star break. And Klay was biting on way too many fakes, he was leaving his feet far too much.

Guppyfighter
08-31-2013, 04:38 PM
It does, but it helps when you're taking 36% of your shots under the basket like Landry was. If you take higher percentage shots you're going to score a higher percentage, pretty basic. He barely hit over 40% on jump shots, comparable to Speights. But throughout his career Speights has been the better midrange shooter.

On top of that Speights was better at crashing the glass (TRB%), blocking shots (BLK%) and turned the ball over less (TO%).


Like I said, Landry's only advantage is his inside game.


Two quick questions,

1. Do you think Speights or Landry would be a better fit for the current squad?

2. Which roster do you think is better. This year or last year?

I'd rather have a player that takes most of his shots inside.

1. I think Landry fits better. Worrying about someone inside gave more space for our shooters. Speights was the back up plan because we couldn't afford Landry.

2. This team. Not because of offense though. I think we are going to be 11 or 13th in offensive efficiency so the same or worse as last year. Still a top defensive rebounding team and mediocre on the offensive glass. I think the change will be in defensive efficiency. Top five defensive team. Teams with elite defensive efficiencies have better winning percentages than top offensives team. So, I definitely think we are better, 5th or 6th seed next year.

Guppyfighter
08-31-2013, 04:40 PM
I don't have a subscription so unless you're willing to take a screenshot I'll just have to take your word for it.




Right. But the plan doesn't always work.

I'm talking about what I saw, not the numbers. I saw Klay and Barnes let way too many guys blow by them for my liking. Some nights they were locking guys down, other nights they were really struggling. That's what I mean by streaky. And like I said, we weren't forcing guys to their weakside enough or bothering shots as much after the all star break. And Klay was biting on way too many fakes, he was leaving his feet far too much.

That's Klay's only defensive weakness, that and defending the spot up. Barnes was kind of MEH on defense and allowed middle penetration, but, he's a rookie. Should get better.

Goose17
08-31-2013, 04:42 PM
I'd rather have a player that takes most of his shots inside.

1. I think Landry fits better. Worrying about someone inside gave more space for our shooters. Speights was the back up plan because we couldn't afford Landry.

2. This team. Not because of offense though. I think we are going to be 11 or 13th in offensive efficiency so the same or worse as last year. Still a top defensive rebounding team and mediocre on the offensive glass. I think the change will be in defensive efficiency. Top five defensive team. Teams with elite defensive efficiencies have better winning percentages than top offensives team. So, I definitely think we are better, 5th or 6th seed next year.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on point one. I think Speights is just as good as Landry and is a better fit. Having him on the floor allows O'Neal, Bogut etc to stay under the basket, we'll have much better spacing with him out there. Just the way I feel.

As for our offense, I don't see it getting any worse. It'll be the same as last year, maybe better if Bogut is healthy for about 70 games and gets his touch back.

Goose17
08-31-2013, 04:45 PM
That's Klay's only defensive weakness, that and defending the spot up. Barnes was kind of MEH on defense and allowed middle penetration, but, he's a rookie. Should get better.

I agree on both points. That's all I've been saying. We had a weakness at the perimeter. Aside from Klay we didn't half a consistent high-caliber defender on the perimeter. Curry started off well but seemed to slump, Barnes was streaky. And even Klay had weaknesses.

Having only one consistent perimeter defender, imo, is a weakness. With Barnes improvement and the addition of Iggy. Our perimeter defense has vastly improved.

Not to mention Douglas is a decent defender, an upgrade over Jack at least.

BKLYNpigeon
08-31-2013, 04:48 PM
who cares, the 6th man usually comes in 7 minutes into the game. its a great problem to have.

5ass
08-31-2013, 05:27 PM
Iggy is going to make them so much better. They've definitely improved their team. They can very well be elite defensively next season. Curry, Barnes, and Thompson are all going to improve defensively. Then you have a defensive anchor in Bogut. Lee is still going to be horrible, but he's the only big they have that cant play defense. Jermaine Oneal, Ezeli, Speights, and Bogut are all good defenders. Hopefully they limit Lee to 30 mpg and give the rest of the bigs some burn.

Curry(35)/Douglas(13)
Thompson(32)/Iggy(16)
Iggy(16)/Barnes(32)
Lee(18)/Speights(15)/O'neal(15)
Bogut(32)/Lee(12)/Ezeli(4)

amos1er
08-31-2013, 05:39 PM
Iggy is going to make them so much better. They've definitely improved their team. They can very well be elite defensively next season. Curry, Barnes, and Thompson are all going to improve defensively. Then you have a defensive anchor in Bogut. Lee is still going to be horrible, but he's the only big they have that cant play defense. Jermaine Oneal, Ezeli, Speights, and Bogut are all good defenders. Hopefully they limit Lee to 30 mpg and give the rest of the bigs some burn.

Curry(35)/Douglas(13)
Thompson(32)/Iggy(16)
Iggy(16)/Barnes(32)
Lee(18)/Speights(15)/O'neal(15)
Bogut(32)/Lee(12)/Ezeli(4)

I like that distribution.

TrueFan420
08-31-2013, 06:03 PM
Barnes now and in 2 years he takes the starting role with iggy moving to the bench

TheGreaterFool
08-31-2013, 07:53 PM
I'd bench Thompson. Iggy's defense and Barnes potential on defense would be more ideal.

lol, please
08-31-2013, 08:37 PM
If i'm MJ I convince them to get rid of Seth asap.

5ass
09-01-2013, 12:00 AM
I like that distribution.

Now that i think of it again I'd also like to see what a line up of
Curry
Thompson
Iggy
Barnes
Bogut

can do. So maybe try that line up as well. They're success depends on Bogut IMO. If he's 100% healthy and can revert to his impact with the Bucks, the Warriors are an elite team. They'd be just as good as any team in the west, and a matchup nightmare for Miami.

SugeKnight
09-01-2013, 12:52 AM
Draymond Green will get some mins

TrueFan420
09-01-2013, 01:41 AM
Draymond Green will get some mins

He'll get time at the 3 & 4. But probably spotty minutes as Barnes will be coming off the bench and we have better depth than before.

TrueFan420
09-01-2013, 01:41 AM
Draymond Green will get some mins

He'll get time at the 3 & 4. But probably spotty minutes as Barnes will be coming off the bench and we have better depth than before.

SportsFanatic10
09-01-2013, 03:35 AM
definitely barnes.

PurpleLynch
09-01-2013, 06:02 AM
Barnes,but man,this guy could be a starter in a lot of teams already.

rhino17
09-01-2013, 01:10 PM
Barnes or iggy, Thompson is the best of the group, iggy is absurdly overrated

Goose17
09-01-2013, 01:30 PM
iggy is absurdly overrated

Oh really? Care to elaborate.

Simply so I can smash your argument into pieces.

TrueFan420
09-01-2013, 02:09 PM
Barnes or iggy, Thompson is the best of the group, iggy is absurdly overrated

You need to stop drinking that hateraid. You called him a role player earlier. Iggy is top flight defender, and can do a number of things for an offense. He is an all-star caliber player.

b@llhog24
09-01-2013, 02:18 PM
Oh really? Care to elaborate.

Simply so I can smash your argument into pieces.

He's obviously better than both. But anybody can be overrated.

TrueFan420
09-01-2013, 02:24 PM
He's obviously better than both. But anybody can be overrated.

No this guy believes iggy is nothing more than a role player, Tony Allen esque

Goose17
09-01-2013, 02:35 PM
He's obviously better than both. But anybody can be overrated.

Anybody can be overrated, but that doesn't mean that they are overrated.

Iggy is not overrated, at least not in terms of his defense or athletic ability and finishing at the rim.

Goose17
09-01-2013, 02:36 PM
No this guy believes iggy is nothing more than a role player, Tony Allen esque

Really? I hope he replies and goes into more detail, I would love to hear his reasoning :)

TrueFan420
09-01-2013, 02:40 PM
Really? I hope he replies and goes into more detail, I would love to hear his reasoning :)

In the warrior rocket 7 game series thread he called him a defensive role player, never said tony Allen but that's what he seemed to be getting at.

b@llhog24
09-01-2013, 02:41 PM
Anybody can be overrated, but that doesn't mean that they are overrated.

Iggy is not overrated, at least not in terms of his defense or athletic ability and finishing at the rim.

Lol I'm not sure you understand how the term comes about. It's based off of YOUR perception. If the guy is seeing Iggy constantly compared to the premier wings in the league, then that means he's overrated. You can't tell somebody who's overrated in reality or not, you're not them.

Goose17
09-01-2013, 02:55 PM
Lol I'm not sure you understand how the term comes about. It's based off of YOUR perception. If the guy is seeing Iggy constantly compared to the premier wings in the league, then that means he's overrated. You can't tell somebody who's overrated in reality or not, you're not them.

No, I don't think you understand how the term works. Overrated means to be commonly misconstrued as having greater impact than they actually do.

And Iggy should be compared to the premier wings, he's the best defensive wing player in the world after Lebron.


He needs to explain why he thinks he's overrated. It's like me saying Michael Jordan is overrated and then never giving any supporting evidence. In my eyes he's overrated so that means he's overrated? No. I don't think so. You need to explain crap like that if you want to be taken seriously.

Goose17
09-01-2013, 02:58 PM
In the warrior rocket 7 game series thread he called him a defensive role player, never said tony Allen but that's what he seemed to be getting at.

He's a rocket fan? That explains it.

I really don't understand why they're tripping over that thread, I mean come on, let it go, nobody cares. Pull your skirts up.

TrueFan420
09-01-2013, 03:04 PM
He's a rocket fan? That explains it.

I really don't understand why they're tripping over that thread, I mean come on, let it go, nobody cares. Pull your skirts up.

Yea they seemed to get a little too annoyed that people thought a fully healthy warriors team beats a fully healthy rockets one. I really hope we get to match up against them in the playoffs.

tredigs
09-01-2013, 03:21 PM
No, I don't think you understand how the term works. Overrated means to be commonly misconstrued as having greater impact than they actually do.

And Iggy should be compared to the premier wings, he's the best defensive wing player in the world after Lebron.


He needs to explain why he thinks he's overrated. It's like me saying Michael Jordan is overrated and then never giving any supporting evidence. In my eyes he's overrated so that means he's overrated? No. I don't think so. You need to explain crap like that if you want to be taken seriously.

Unless it's a post up, give me both Tony Allen and Iggy over Lebron defensively guarding their positions. You have to love his versatility, but purely on wings they're both smarter/better/more effective defenders. If only they could also run a top tier offense.

Goose17
09-01-2013, 03:51 PM
Unless it's a post up, give me both Tony Allen and Iggy over Lebron defensively guarding their positions. You have to love his versatility, but purely on wings they're both smarter/better/more effective defenders. If only they could also run a top tier offense.

imo Allen isn't really comparable, he shouldn't be mentioned with those other two. He's an elite defender, but Iggy and Lebron are beyond elite. They're on that next level. Allen is a tier below them.


When you look at his RAPM from last season Iggy is the best out of all the "elite" wing defenders with the exception of Lebron. And it is comparable (4.2) to some of the best defensive big men in the league, I.E Noah (3.8), Marc Gasol (4.5), D12 (4.4), Larry Sanders (4.2).

tredigs
09-01-2013, 03:58 PM
imo Allen isn't really comparable, he shouldn't be mentioned with those other two. He's an elite defender, but Iggy and Lebron are beyond elite. They're on that next level. Allen is a tier below them.


When you look at his RAPM from last season Iggy is the best out of all the "elite" wing defenders with the exception of Lebron. And it is comparable (4.2) to some of the best defensive big men in the league, I.E Noah (3.8), Marc Gasol (4.5), D12 (4.4), Larry Sanders (4.2).

Nah, I definitely disagree, I think Tony's pretty brilliant defensively and never ceases to infuriate whoever he's guarding. He also rates higher than both Lebron and Iggy on both RAPM and overall ppp via Synergy.

Goose17
09-01-2013, 04:08 PM
Nah, I definitely disagree, I think Tony's pretty brilliant defensively and never ceases to infuriate whoever he's guarding. He also rates higher than both Lebron and Iggy on both RAPM and overall ppp via Synergy.

The only wing player with a higher dRAPM than Iggy is Lebron. Not sure where you're getting that from. There's no wing player even close to those two.

tredigs
09-01-2013, 04:13 PM
The only wing player with a higher dRAPM than Iggy is Lebron. Not sure where you're getting that from. There's no wing player even close to those to.

Well, the Synergy isn't debatable and eye test wise I personally find him absurd, but this is their 2013 RAPMs: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

Lebron's (DEFENSIVE rapm) is the one that isn't close. Which RAPM are you checking out?

Goose17
09-01-2013, 04:23 PM
Well, the Synergy isn't debatable and eye test wise I personally find him absurd, but this is their 2013 RAPMs: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

Lebron's (DEFENSIVE rapm) is the one that isn't close. Which RAPM are you checking out?

I was looking at dRAPM and DRtg, apologies, I confused the RAPM and dRAPM in my initial post.

tredigs
09-01-2013, 04:27 PM
I was looking at dRAPM and DRtg, apologies, I confused the RAPM and dRAPM in my initial post.
Rogah that. Anyway to the thread topic, I'm on board with Barnes on the bench and staggering at least one of Iggy + Curry along with him.

b@llhog24
09-01-2013, 06:37 PM
No, I don't think you understand how the term works. Overrated means to be commonly misconstrued as having greater impact than they actually do.

Understand the concept of colloquialism? That's essentially what's at play here. While the definition you're referring to is the definition that most people stand by. The "commonly" portion of the definition doesn't need to be there in order for the term to be aptly defined.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/overrated?s=t

There's nothing about common perception or deviation from the mean present in the strict definition. It's just normally implied.


And Iggy should be compared to the premier wings, he's the best defensive wing player in the world after Lebron.

Because defense is all there is to the game right?


He needs to explain why he thinks he's overrated. It's like me saying Michael Jordan is overrated and then never giving any supporting evidence. In my eyes he's overrated so that means he's overrated? No. I don't think so. You need to explain crap like that if you want to be taken seriously.

For the purpose of discussion? Sure. Wouldn't make sense to hide behind the vast of umbrella of the word "overrated" if your actively discussing the term with someone. Nobody likes taking stabs in the dark, no? Doesn't mean that he was wrong for using the term in the first place, your being presumptuous in believing that he's seen the same things that you've seen.

SugeKnight
09-01-2013, 07:39 PM
Iggy is still a top 10 wing

Lebron
Durant
Harden
Kobe
Melo
Wade
George
Iggy

OceanSpray
09-02-2013, 12:06 AM
Probably Barnes. I think Curry/Thompson together are much more effective.

sunsfan88
09-03-2013, 04:17 AM
Iggy definitely starts so it comes down to Thompson or Barnes for me. I think I'd lean towards Barnes off the bench given that Thompson is the better defender.
Really? I would have thought that Barnes is the better defender. I haven't checked stats or anything though.

Thompson seriously is more than just a shooter.

What else does he do?

COOLbeans
09-03-2013, 04:51 AM
Really? I would have thought that Barnes is the better defender. I haven't checked stats or anything though.


What else does he do?

More than shoot. You'll see this year and we'll discuss it then

monty77
09-03-2013, 07:15 AM
Both of them are player who are used to play as starter so it will be a difficult issue for Mark Jackson. It will depend of Warrions' second lineup because if they have a good backup and scorer players they won't need Thompson shoots.

There is no reason in the current NBA to play with a defensive combo at SF and SG, just like Barnes and Iggy would be. There are a star players at SF position, but there aren't star players at SG. For this reason I think that Thompson is my favourite player to play as starter.

It's good that Iggy can play as SG and SF because it means that all the minutes at this two spots will be distributed among these three players. Furthermore they have to Curry, who is arguably a top 3 PG in the NBA. If Warrions add a big man they will be a serious Western contender.

Back to topic, I would opt to place Barnes at starter because if you have Iguodala in the bench you can replace either of the starter players according to the team's needs, given the game development.

This would be a award for players like Thompson and Barnes, who played very well last year. However, it will be suitable to place Iggy as starter at SG position when Golden State plays versus Lakers, Rockets or Cleveland for example. At those game they would need more a player like Andre, because Kobe, Harden and Waiters are the best SG in the NBA.

Chronz
09-03-2013, 02:38 PM
Really? I would have thought that Barnes is the better defender. I haven't checked stats or anything though.
Different positions but generally speaking the SG is the better on ball perimeter defender than the combo forward.


What else does he do?
Miss shots and turn it over. Important value as a shooter that makes GS a volatile offensive team but generally, over the long haul, his lack of efficiency drags down their bottom line. That hes developing into a decent defender has dub fans giddy but Im not sold yet.

tredigs
09-03-2013, 03:00 PM
Different positions but generally speaking the SG is the better on ball perimeter defender than the combo forward.

Miss shots and turn it over. Important value as a shooter that makes GS a volatile offensive team but generally, over the long haul, his lack of efficiency drags down their bottom line. That hes developing into a decent defender has dub fans giddy but Im not sold yet.

The thing with him is that his value is probably a bit stronger than his personal line for his specific situation next to Curry. They've got ridiculous synergy in their game that works nicely for the threat of hand-offs, spot ups or a cut depending on how the defense plays it. He does all that at an elite level and if need be he can post. Combined with his seriously improved D to the point of real impact, it's just a nice situation to have next to Curry.

I'm hoping that this summer he's working on his strength and his dribble drives + ability to take contact at the rim, though that is one reason why the Iggy signing was important. The offense should be able to play off each others strength pretty ideally in theory.

Dee_Edge
09-03-2013, 03:17 PM
Barnes would come off the bench for me

D-Leethal
09-03-2013, 03:19 PM
I can't think of a proper reason for anyone outside of Barnes. Curry-Thompson-Iggy is a seamless fit. Curry-Barnes-Iggy gets awkward.

TrueFan420
09-03-2013, 03:27 PM
Both of them are player who are used to play as starter so it will be a difficult issue for Mark Jackson. It will depend of Warrions' second lineup because if they have a good backup and scorer players they won't need Thompson shoots.

There is no reason in the current NBA to play with a defensive combo at SF and SG, just like Barnes and Iggy would be. There are a star players at SF position, but there aren't star players at SG. For this reason I think that Thompson is my favourite player to play as starter.

It's good that Iggy can play as SG and SF because it means that all the minutes at this two spots will be distributed among these three players. Furthermore they have to Curry, who is arguably a top 3 PG in the NBA. If Warrions add a big man they will be a serious Western contender.

Back to topic, I would opt to place Barnes at starter because if you have Iguodala in the bench you can replace either of the starter players according to the team's needs, given the game development.

This would be a award for players like Thompson and Barnes, who played very well last year. However, it will be suitable to place Iggy as starter at SG position when Golden State plays versus Lakers, Rockets or Cleveland for example. At those game they would need more a player like Andre, because Kobe, Harden and Waiters are the best SG in the NBA.

Um what? When did waiters become a top sg in the nba? Is he even in the psd top 10? I think your getting a little a head of yourself there.

Chronz
09-03-2013, 04:02 PM
The thing with him is that his value is probably a bit stronger than his personal line for his specific situation next to Curry. Hes definitely better than the below average marks he posts that much we agree on, but his contributions are as I said, volatile. Valuable skills but his lack of individual efficiency is what measurably holds them back offensively.

As for their unbelievable synergy, it must have come a long way from the start of the season because I remember complaining to you about it (IIRC). But yes, they have a sweet game plan that should blend around Iggy beautifully .

tredigs
09-03-2013, 04:22 PM
Hes definitely better than the below average marks he posts that much we agree on, but his contributions are as I said, volatile. Valuable skills but his lack of individual efficiency is what measurably holds them back offensively.

As for their unbelievable synergy, it must have come a long way from the start of the season because I remember complaining to you about it (IIRC). But yes, they have a sweet game plan that should blend around Iggy beautifully .
I hated it for the first couple months as well, but I think a lot of it had to do with Curry sitting out most of 2 seasons ago and not going through training camp with them due to the rehab. They both got better individually (more so taking on a larger role defensively for Klay) and as a unit around ~January I'd say. Took a few months.

lol, please
09-04-2013, 01:45 AM
Really? I would have thought that Barnes is the better defender. I haven't checked stats or anything though.


What else does he do?

Not sure if serious....Klay is an underrated defender. Vastly underrated defender.

5ass
09-04-2013, 02:45 AM
Not sure if serious....Klay is an underrated defender. Vastly underrated defender.

He's a good defender. Not great or elite.

Trueblue2
09-05-2013, 04:59 AM
Common sense would have you put thompson in the starting line up. They traded away monta to make room for him with the starters, him and steph earned the title "the best shooting back court in the league," and hes shown progression in his game every year, making a huge leap when he was put in the starters role. Barnes is a 2nd year player and hes still developing his game and defining his role on offense. A demotion to the bench shouldnt make him regress too much because hes young and playing with and against reaerve players will give him more opportunity/responsibility to take over his teams scoring load while the starters rest.


That being said it might be wise for the dubs to occasionally start barnes over klay if their bench offense is lacking or theyre going up against an elite but top heavy team with elite perrimeter defense ( aka the heat). Reason being that there are less opportunities to shoot/score when on the floor with curry/lee/bogut/iggy but when those opportunities do come theyre normally good looks because the spacing and defensive attention that line up creates. Klay is a better scorer and shooter than barnes, but put barnes out there as the defenses last priority id trust him to consistently hit open looks, slashes, and spot up shots. That also allows klay to showcase his offensive ability because hed be the no.1 scoring option on the bench and wouldnt be playing against the other teams best defenders.

Putting Klay is in a position where he has the green light for stretches of a game will also allow him to fully figure out and become comfortable with his shot due to less pressure and more opportunities. Hes a great shooter, but hes streaky. He has good form and physical tools and hes not on amd off the court with injuries; like most players his biggest obstical is mental. If hes going through a cold spill having him come off the bench as a 6th man could get his comfort and confidence back.


I honestly believe that the drop off from Klay to Barnes in the starting line up isnt as big as the upgrade of Barnes to Klay is on the bench, if that makes sense. Basically right now Klay's skillset is more suited for a 6th man role than Barnes' because of the level he has brought his offensive game to. Ability wise Klay can/will/should out perform Barnes in either role, but as a 6th man there would be a wider gap in the two's performance.


Still the evry day starter should be Klay for the simple fact that he earned the starting spot. They traded away Monta so he could have a starting spot (who at that time was actually a desireable trade asset) and when he got the spot he prooved his GM and coach right for making that move, sitting him on the bench for a season (even if its to give him a larger offensive role) could kill his confidence and cause him to regress. Theyre better off letting Thompson develop with the starting line up, his game is developed, his physical skills are there, and he already knows how to score and defend. Playing with the starters will continue to get his mentality in the right place. If youre a starter youre looked at in the locker room as a leader, youre chosen to start because the coach/gm/team has enough respect for and confidence in you to put the game/season in your hands. Surrounding Klay with that type of atmosphere for a whole season on a team thats expected to make a deep playoff run will make him grow up quick.

And if Klay struggles for any length of time, teams start making huge runs against their bench, or theyre facing elite perimeter defense then putting Barnes in the starting line up for a couple of games would let Klay either more chances to correct a cold spill or more chances to ride a hot streak while picking up the teams bench scoring.


I also would love to see this line up against a team that tries to go small:

Curry
Klay
Iggy
Barnes
Lee/bogut

Whoever plays the 5 for that line up will have plenty of room to work with and can go on a scoring tear while that line up is in effect. If a team tries to go small its normally to run, hit outside shots, or nuetralize an opponents size advantage. But against the dubs thier small ball line up can run and score better and actually maximises their big mans efficiency. Not to mention the perimeter defense would be so tight with this group that going small to get more shooters on the floor would almost be pointless because that also brings better defenders ob the floor. Curry/Klay/Iggy/Barnes can all pass and shoot with range, this combination = easy scoring for either bogut or lee cause the spacing gives them position in the post without having to worry about a double or reallt even help defense. If they started using this line uo situationally and maybe even running a few princeton plays theyd have a top two small ball 5 man line up in the nba.

Chronz
09-05-2013, 11:13 AM
Only Klay strikes me as a guy who could thrive in a bench role but even he fits best with the starters, there is nobody here I would assume would play better in a bench role than as a starter.

I Rock Shaqs
09-05-2013, 11:31 AM
Gotta bring Thompson off the bench so he can just shoot as much as he wants... which is a LOT.

Stinkyoutsider
09-05-2013, 12:25 PM
I'm actually thinking it would be just fine to bring Thompson off of the bench but Curry is so used to having him that I would second guess the move? Nothing wrong with a guy who can play a Vinny Johnson role for you (the microwave)...

I think a really good question is who's going to be in at the most important times during the game (4th quarter in a close game). This was the only reason I believe Manu took the role with the Spurs? Because finishing is better than starting in some people's minds.

Thompson and Iggy will get the opportunity to play the most during those times with Barnes on the bench.

What a good problem to have if you're Mark Jackson though...