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View Full Version : Can Lakersí 3pt barrage gain them a playoff spot?



Chrisclover
08-30-2013, 01:03 AM
Lakers is a franchise with champion pedigree, although they lost howard ,they made some amazing moves.For instance ,adding Nick Young ,Johnson,Farmar.They are solid 3pt shooters.
And, Kelly,the rookie they picked in the 2nd round, has a long range , kind of like a younger Matt Bonner.
Now, Kobe,Nash and Gasol can also make 3s, it seems like the Lakers is turned a 3pt team.
Recently,ESPN predicted that Lakers couldn't make the playoffs, which pissed off Kobe massively .
My wonder is , can their 3pt barrage give them a lift and thus a playoff ticket ? Note that Mike D'antoni is a fanatic and an adept of using 3pt shots
Discuss

Kushed
08-30-2013, 01:09 AM
Absolutely not. Wes Johnson is one of the worst 3 point shooters in the league.

He's one of those guys that was always said to have a silky shot so people assume he's good.

I watched this dude in Minnesota and you honestly expected him to miss every 3 point shot he took. When he made one you'd go crazy.

And I might also mention that he's always lacked confidence. How is he going to play in Staples? I think he'll be terrible but have the occasional decent shooting night here and there.

As for Farmar and Young, Farmar doesn't just turn them into some amazing shooting team and Young is a streaky chucker.

Their only hope is if Pau shoots 75% from the arc on 200 attempts (which is what I heard he's aiming for)

ThunderousDemon
08-30-2013, 01:27 AM
The Lakers are going to make it rain.

[SPOILER TAG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1187695/birdman-o.gif[/SPOILER TAG]

Chrisclover
08-30-2013, 01:30 AM
dude, what did your "spoiler " mean?

The Lakers are going to make it rain.

[SPOILER TAG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1187695/birdman-o.gif[/SPOILER TAG]

TrueFan420
08-30-2013, 02:08 AM
Hahaha short answer... No

tredigs
08-30-2013, 02:10 AM
Well, they'll take a ton again, but it's tough to see how they're going to be better than average efficiency wise.

carlthack
08-30-2013, 02:19 AM
I know people dont have faith in Steve Nash because he's like 60 years old but if he stays healthy he very well could turn guys like Nick Young into a 3pt marksman. Look at what he did in Pheonix, he turned everybody into deadly 3pt shooter, even Shawn Marion with that ugly release because they always had wide open looks.

kobe4thewinbang
08-30-2013, 02:27 AM
I know people dont have faith in Steve Nash because he's like 60 years old but if he stays healthy he very well could turn guys like Nick Young into a 3pt marksman. Look at what he did in Pheonix, he turned everybody into deadly 3pt shooter, even Shawn Marion with that ugly release because they always had wide open looks.That's like shooting fish underwater without SCUBA gear.

Even if D'Antoni/Nash can turn them into good shooters, guess what?

They'd still have the same problem that kept Phoenix away from a championship.

Uh...resistance....uh...fencing...uh...chain link...it's on the tip of my tongue, I swear!

It's bad enough that Kobe shoots 10 threes a game over two defenders, and even worse that Gasol wants to build a house on the three point line.

Zefflin
08-30-2013, 02:37 AM
Bet your house on the lakers to make the playoffs.

FOBolous
08-30-2013, 03:23 AM
Lakers forum.

Lakers + Giants
08-30-2013, 03:55 AM
Gonna be tough to overcome the 110+ points we'll be giving up every night. .

The FO is secretly tanking so kobe wont *****. We have no defensive players on this team, not one. Plus we have the worst defensive coach.

It's gonna be fun watching us score a lot, but the opposing teams will score even more.

#TankNation!

JWorthy42
08-30-2013, 03:56 AM
I can see the Lakers squeeze in at like 8th...I would much rather have them tank though.

Sadly, unlikely.

PhillyFaninLA
08-30-2013, 06:30 AM
Its ashame this site doesn't have a lakers forum

PurpleLynch
08-30-2013, 07:12 AM
No. Lakers have to overcome their weakness on defense before of landing in the 8th seed. It'll be funny to see this team playing,but not a playoff team in my opinion with this coach.

Hawkeye15
08-30-2013, 10:45 AM
I don't see them being a playoff team this year.

todu82
08-30-2013, 10:58 AM
They're the Lakers so anything can happen. That said I think they're on the outside looking in this year.

2-ONE-5
08-30-2013, 11:11 AM
Johnson, Young, and Framar should never be described as incredible moves. No playoffs for the Lakers

shep33
08-30-2013, 11:37 AM
I don't see them being a playoff team this year.

Wiggins!!

archdevil84
08-30-2013, 11:45 AM
in nba 2k13 myteam the threes dont go in after the start of the 4th quarter. and kobe jacking up contested threes from way outside wont help! get those 3point cheeser outa here!

Hawkeye15
08-30-2013, 11:45 AM
Wiggins!!

if that happens, I am going to ****ing kick a puppy

MrfadeawayJB
08-30-2013, 11:49 AM
They are not dantoni's suns teams from years past

shep33
08-30-2013, 11:53 AM
if that happens, I am going to ****ing kick a puppy

Lol

ztilzer31
08-30-2013, 12:14 PM
Lakers is a franchise with champion pedigree, although they lost howard ,they made some amazing moves.For instance ,adding Nick Young ,Johnson,Farmar.They are solid 3pt shooters.
And, Kelly,the rookie they picked in the 2nd round, has a long range , kind of like a younger Matt Bonner.
Now, Kobe,Nash and Gasol can also make 3s, it seems like the Lakers is turned a 3pt team.
Recently,ESPN predicted that Lakers couldn't make the playoffs, which pissed off Kobe massively .
My wonder is , can their 3pt barrage give them a lift and thus a playoff ticket ? Note that Mike D'antoni is a fanatic and an adept of using 3pt shots
Discuss

Amazing? They picked up some role players... They still don't have Pau in the right position. Have Dantoni as coach. Kobe won't be playing tell around Christmas....

Sure Gasol can make 3's. About 25% of the time lol.

I doubt it. If you can't play defense you can't make the playoffs in the western conference. Is it possible? Absolutely. However the west is deep.

Isammm
08-30-2013, 12:38 PM
Those guys dont really make them a 3 point shooting team. There are only two teams I know in the league that shoot the three consistently as a team, the Spurs and the Warriors.

ManRam
08-30-2013, 12:45 PM
For instance ,adding Nick Young ,Johnson,Farmar.They are solid 3pt shooters.

Wes: 33.6% career
Nick: 37.4% career
Jordan: 36.7% career

They are "solid", but nothing more than that collectively


The Lakers' problem is gonna be defense, plain and simple. They might be a top 7 or so offense (depends on Kobe), but they'll easily be a bottom 7 defense.

They'll hoist a ton, for sure, but I'm not sure how well it will go.


If they make the playoffs it will be for reasons more significant than those three making threes. Like Pau reverting back to a top 3-5 center, like Kobe being Kobe and Nash playing a little better.

I just don't think they do have enough firepower to overcome the D

JLynn943
08-30-2013, 01:06 PM
If they were in the East maybe. In the West, a lot has to go right for them to make it.

sep11ie
08-30-2013, 01:27 PM
Lakers forum.

Ballperiodicals
08-30-2013, 02:01 PM
the lakers can score from three with that roster ? I would run a in and out game with Pau as my center

ztilzer31
08-30-2013, 02:19 PM
Isn't Kaman starting Center? Isn't Pau still playing the 4?

jerellh528
08-30-2013, 02:38 PM
If they make the playoffs it's going to be from Kobe, pau and Nash staying healthy and playing together. Something that didn't happen last season. Not from those new guys, sure they will add youth and speed. But playoffs hinge of the core's health.

JEDean89
08-30-2013, 03:24 PM
Kobe Pau and Nash is a nice trio if healthy for sure, but their depth is awful, Wesley Johnson, Jordan Farmar and Nick Young might make a few 3's but they won't contribute anything else. There is a reason everyone else cut them from their teams. Jordan Hill is not going to blossom into a 6'10 240 2010 Lamar Odom, Steve Blake is not going to become Steve Nash. If all goes right for the Lakes, they will get a good draft pick next year, resign Kobe for 15 mil and sign a bigtime FA, otherwise they are kind of screwed til Kobe retires.

beasted86
08-30-2013, 03:47 PM
That young Portland squad is going to upset the Lakers chance at the playoffs. You heard it here first.

OceanSpray
08-30-2013, 03:58 PM
Hell no. There is no way lal can beat lac, memphis, okc, healthy dallas, sas, gsw, rockets, denver, or even the wolves. This is assuming kobe is even 100%, which he won't be.

RiceOnTheRun
08-30-2013, 04:33 PM
Being a 3pt reliant team is too inconsistent to warrant a playoff spot in the west right now (unless you're Golden State). Kobe is an average 3pt shooter and the past few seasons he hasn't even hit 30%. Nobody but maybe Nash is reliable enough to shoot consistent threes. Other 3pt shooting teams like the Knicks, Warriors have either deadly marksmen (Curry, Thompson) or a barrage of solid sharpshooters (Melo, Copeland, Novak, Kidd, Shumpert) to go along with a post threat to keep defenders in and/or capitalize on floor spacing (D-Lee, Melo).

Nobody on the Lakers is skilled enough to compare with Curry or Thompson nor do they have enough depth to have 2-3 shooters on the floor at all times. They have solid shooters, but they are in no way going to be a 3pt shooting team.

carlthack
08-30-2013, 05:11 PM
Isn't Kaman starting Center? Isn't Pau still playing the 4?

It might end up that way but I think they will start the season with Kaman coming off the bench.

PurpleLynch
08-30-2013, 05:20 PM
if that happens, I am going to ****ing kick a puppy

Imma call PETA :p

Anyway Wiggins could be a great add,but I hope we land a Pg(Exum if he's available or Smart) or Randle at PF.

OceanSpray
08-30-2013, 05:23 PM
Why do you guys think lakers are ever going to tank? Large market teams dont need to tank. They can get the next best star in free agency. I think wiggins is going to be a good player but he'll need time to adjust. Kobe on the other hand is still an elite player who's time is ticking if lal doesn't sign someone worth mentioning.

Hawkeye15
08-30-2013, 05:37 PM
Imma call PETA :p

Anyway Wiggins could be a great add,but I hope we land a Pg(Exum if he's available or Smart) or Randle at PF.

Kobe even at 80% for 70 games, and a healthy Pau are good enough to win you guys 35 games alone. You would have to leap frog some teams that are terrible in order to get one of the guys you listed (at least for now, we will see where these players fall after a college season).

Bostonjorge
08-30-2013, 06:32 PM
Of course

Eagles4Lyfe
08-30-2013, 07:25 PM
hope Kobe goes nuts this year.
Lets see if he still has it in him to carry a team
I love and miss my black mamba

mightybosstone
08-30-2013, 08:05 PM
The only way in hell that the Lakers have a chance at making the playoffs is if they embrace D'Antoni and Nash's style and play like they did in Phoenix. And at best, that is a 7 or 8 seed. With Kobe missing time and how shitastic that supporting cast is, Nash and Pau alone will not make them a decent playoff squad. With all the young and improving teams in the league, I'd put the Lakers' playoff chances at 20-30 percent. If Kobe comes back earlier than expected, I might improve that number, but I also think there's a chance they could be better without him on the roster and by embracing Nash as the primary playmaker.

Kashmir13579
08-30-2013, 08:42 PM
I'm pulling for the Lakers hard this upcoming season. Prove that these guys and D'antoni still have what it takes. If Nash can stay healthy, that is. You already know Kobe will bring it.

They should've traded for Jeremy Lin though.. Maybe they will before the deadline, who knows?

EDIT: omg i forget they have Wesley Johnson. Perfect fit for D'antoni-ball. He will thrive.

Kashmir13579
08-30-2013, 08:43 PM
The only way in hell that the Lakers have a chance at making the playoffs is if they embrace D'Antoni and Nash's style and play like they did in Phoenix. And at best, that is a 7 or 8 seed. With Kobe missing time and how shitastic that supporting cast is, Nash and Pau alone will not make them a decent playoff squad. With all the young and improving teams in the league, I'd put the Lakers' playoff chances at 20-30 percent. If Kobe comes back earlier than expected, I might improve that number, but I also think there's a chance they could be better without him on the roster and by embracing Nash as the primary playmaker.
i think with Howard out of the picture thats what they want to do. It comes down to Nash, does he still have it? I don't even know who their bench PG is?

xxplayerxx23
08-30-2013, 09:18 PM
I'd keep Kobe out till January. Make pau the foical point and trade him for whatever you can get. Let Kobe do what he wants, when he comes back and try and tank for a top pick then go with your cap space and hope.

ManRam
08-30-2013, 09:36 PM
The only way in hell that the Lakers have a chance at making the playoffs is if they embrace D'Antoni and Nash's style and play like they did in Phoenix. And at best, that is a 7 or 8 seed. With Kobe missing time and how shitastic that supporting cast is, Nash and Pau alone will not make them a decent playoff squad. With all the young and improving teams in the league, I'd put the Lakers' playoff chances at 20-30 percent. If Kobe comes back earlier than expected, I might improve that number, but I also think there's a chance they could be better without him on the roster and by embracing Nash as the primary playmaker.

I'm not sure Nash can play the style needed to run that effectively enough to overcome the defense.

Eagles4Lyfe
08-30-2013, 09:45 PM
They should've traded Nash this off season.

tredigs
08-30-2013, 09:51 PM
Wes Johnson is squarely among the worst rotation players in the NBA. And this is considered among the "amazing" signings for them this off-season (per the OP). Let's let that soak in.

I think it's far more likely that they win <35 games then it is for them to make the playoffs this year.

Iron24th
08-30-2013, 09:59 PM
I think they can make it to the playoffs if everything is clicking like Kobe is back quickly and efficient, like Pau and Nash come back to play etc...

But I understand people who don't believe they'd do it, cause things don't look good actually.

ManRam
08-30-2013, 10:12 PM
Wes Johnson is squarely among the worst rotation players in the NBA. And this is considered among the "amazing" signings for them this off-season (per the OP). Let's let that soak in.

I think it's far more likely that they win <35 games then it is for them to make the playoffs this year.

I've heard it from a lot of Lakers fans, and I can't definitively discredit it tho I don't buy it, that young castoffs tend to excel when they get to LA. They're optimistic because they got the best out of Ariza, Earl Clark, Matt Barnes, Jordan Hill etc. I'm not so convinced it's anything but coincidence especially because their coaching staff is completely changed and Jerry is gone (RIP), but that's probably some of the reason for expectations being so high.

I don't think Wes Johnson will do anything at all, and he WAS one of the absolute worst rotation players in the league last year, but I'm not gonna slam Lakers fans for wishful thinking. I'd probably be hoping for the same things if he came to Orlando. Though, I wouldn't be touting him left and right.

I think there's a slight chance he can turn into something at least somewhat valuable. But yeah, most Lakers fans are just setting themselves up for disappointment.

And I agree. I think too much has to go right for them to make the playoffs to bet on that. Kobe's health is a question mark. Gasol's ability is a little question mark. Nash's age is a question mark. Their depth is meh. Their defense is terrible. Their coach is terrible. Everything is going to have to go right for them to do OK.


But a lot of Lakers fans do have low expectations, which is nice to see. I actually hope their wrong. I love when fans of uber historic teams can objectively assess their team.

#drunj

5ass
08-30-2013, 10:15 PM
I'm pulling for the Lakers hard this upcoming season. Prove that these guys and D'antoni still have what it takes. If Nash can stay healthy, that is. You already know Kobe will bring it.

They should've traded for Jeremy Lin though.. Maybe they will before the deadline, who knows?

EDIT: omg i forget they have Wesley Johnson. Perfect fit for D'antoni-ball. He will thrive.

prove they have what it takes to do what? Make the play offs? Lose in the 1st round? Theres no way in hell they're going to the finals. Personally i dont see them making the play offs.

jerellh528
08-30-2013, 10:24 PM
This thread will be fun to look at after the season.

ManRam
08-30-2013, 10:25 PM
This thread will be fun to look at after the season.

I've bookmarked many a thread in the Lakers forum for just that ;)

Hawkeye15
08-30-2013, 10:30 PM
I'm pulling for the Lakers hard this upcoming season. Prove that these guys and D'antoni still have what it takes. If Nash can stay healthy, that is. You already know Kobe will bring it.

They should've traded for Jeremy Lin though.. Maybe they will before the deadline, who knows?

EDIT: omg i forget they have Wesley Johnson. Perfect fit for D'antoni-ball. He will thrive.

you have literally got to be kidding me.

TrueFan420
08-30-2013, 11:27 PM
you have literally got to be kidding me.

Hahah I know its just ridiculous... These laker fans need to quit their only making it worse.

Kashmir13579
08-30-2013, 11:28 PM
prove they have what it takes to do what? Make the play offs? Lose in the 1st round? Theres no way in hell they're going to the finals. Personally i dont see them making the play offs.

Making the playoffs would go along way for this group of guys.

Kashmir13579
08-30-2013, 11:39 PM
you have literally got to be kidding me.
Why? I know you're just sour because the wolves drafted him 4th overall.

He's what, 6'7? lengthy, athletic, young, decent stroke? I hate to break it to you, but he's the exact type of guy that D'antoni goes out and gets production from. He will play big minutes.

Plus now he will have Kobe in his ear. I'm still pulling for Wesley, he was fun to watch in his one year at Cuse.

tredigs
08-30-2013, 11:45 PM
You guys should see the #'s on teams who come in bottom 8 in defensive efficiency. Not only is it insanely rare to make the playoffs, they're almost always <35 win teams. And with D. Howard, they were hovering right around the bottom 10 mark defensively last year...


Why? I know you're just sour because the wolves drafted him 4th overall.

He's what, 6'7? lengthy, athletic, young, decent stroke? I hate to break it to you, but he's the exact type of guy that D'antoni goes out and gets production from. He will play big minutes.

Plus now he will have Kobe in his ear. I'm still pulling for Wesley, he was fun to watch in his one year at Cuse.

Hawk may or may not be bitter on him, I can't say, but it doesn't change the fact that Wesley Johnson is a shell of your average NBA player, and is extremely lucky to be in the NBA. If he plays big minutes, it will only cause bigger problems for them.

Kashmir13579
08-30-2013, 11:57 PM
You guys should see the #'s on teams who come in bottom 8 in defensive efficiency. Not only is it insanely rare to make the playoffs, they're almost always <35 win teams. And with D. Howard, they were hovering right around the bottom 10 mark defensively last year...



Hawk may or may not be bitter on him, I can't say, but it doesn't change the fact that Wesley Johnson is a shell of your average NBA player, and is extremely lucky to be in the NBA. If he plays big minutes, it will only cause bigger problems for them.

Wesley Johnson is still young. He has many tools that more often than not equate to a lengthy, successful NBA career. Unlike Toney Douglas, who you weren't so utterly pessimistic about when your team gave him the call.

Hawkeye15
08-30-2013, 11:59 PM
Why? I know you're just sour because the wolves drafted him 4th overall.

He's what, 6'7? lengthy, athletic, young, decent stroke? I hate to break it to you, but he's the exact type of guy that D'antoni goes out and gets production from. He will play big minutes.

Plus now he will have Kobe in his ear. I'm still pulling for Wesley, he was fun to watch in his one year at Cuse.

sour? no

He sucks. Period. Prove otherwise.

decent stroke? Um, no.

Kashmir13579
08-31-2013, 12:02 AM
sour? no

He sucks. Period. Prove otherwise.

decent stroke? Um, no.
lmfao are you drunk?

tredigs
08-31-2013, 12:08 AM
Wesley Johnson is still young. He has many tools that more often than not equate to a lengthy, successful NBA career. Unlike Toney Douglas, who you weren't so utterly pessimistic about when your team gave him the call.

"Young" is probably a stretch. He's 26 and going into year 4 for his 3rd team, and has been given AMPLE opportunity to grow (my guess is because of those like yourself who love his theoretical physical ability and aren't willing to give up on him... and the #4 pick barking at them) playing solid minutes in some of the higher octane offenses the past few years (which theoretically should suit his style).

Lol at a random shot at Toney Douglas. Not a great player by any means, but a net+ as a 12-14 mpg bench piece. Might as well be Cp3 if the comparison is Wes. Ask any person who has watched him play 10+ games a year. Beyond his worst-in-the-NBA level of stats he puts up, this is a broken player mentally, and Kobe will probably be the final straw for the kid.

tredigs
08-31-2013, 12:18 AM
For what it's worth, I just watched his Laker press conference and see that it was his "childhood dream to be a laker and he wants to work hard to" etc etc. So, hopefully he actually adds something to his game this year, or at the very least doesn't regress.

Anyway, I really don't enjoy bashing players this much, so let's hope that somehow he snaps out of his career long funk and proves us all wrong.

In closing, my Lakers projection: 39-43. Missing the playoffs by double digits. Ie an Eastern Conference 7 seed.

Kashmir13579
08-31-2013, 12:32 AM
"Young" is probably a stretch. He's 26 and going into year 4 for his 3rd team, and has been given AMPLE opportunity to grow (my guess is because of those like yourself who love his theoretical physical ability and aren't willing to give up on him... and the #4 pick barking at them) playing solid minutes in some of the higher octane offenses the past few years (which theoretically should suit his style
Theoretical physical ability? There is nothing theoretical about it. And yes, 26 is still young just to clear that up for you. I'd give him some benefit of doubt, acknowledging the two teams he's played for have been intrinsically awful in most regards, despite playing at a high pace.


Lol at a random shot at Toney Douglas. Not a great player by any means, but a net+ as a 12-14 mpg bench piece. Might as well be Cp3 if the comparison is Wes. Ask any person who has watched him play 10+ games a year. Beyond his worst-in-the-NBA level of stats he puts up, this is a broken player mentally, and Kobe will probably be the final straw for the kid.

lol at you thinking Douglas is Cp3 in comparison to anything on this planet.

Look, all i said is that i think D'antoni and crew will be a great fit for the kid. Thats my story and i'm sticking to it. We'll find out soon enough.

TheMightyHumph
08-31-2013, 12:38 AM
Lakers is a franchise with champion pedigree, although they lost howard ,they made some amazing moves.For instance ,adding Nick Young ,Johnson,Farmar.They are solid 3pt shooters.
And, Kelly,the rookie they picked in the 2nd round, has a long range , kind of like a younger Matt Bonner.
Now, Kobe,Nash and Gasol can also make 3s, it seems like the Lakers is turned a 3pt team.
Recently,ESPN predicted that Lakers couldn't make the playoffs, which pissed off Kobe massively .
My wonder is , can their 3pt barrage give them a lift and thus a playoff ticket ? Note that Mike D'antoni is a fanatic and an adept of using 3pt shots
Discuss

Are you a Lakers' fan?

Hawkeye15
08-31-2013, 01:03 AM
lmfao are you drunk?

are you? Dude, Wes Johnson is ****ing horrible. THE worst starter in the game for 2 years, and could barely make a rotation for a gutter team last year.

I know you love you some Cuse players, but he is awful.

tredigs
08-31-2013, 01:06 AM
Theoretical physical ability? There is nothing theoretical about it. And yes, 26 is still young just to clear that up for you. I'd give him some benefit of doubt, acknowledging the two teams he's played for have been intrinsically awful in most regards, despite playing at a high pace.



lol at you thinking Douglas is Cp3 in comparison to anything on this planet.

Look, all i said is that i think D'antoni and crew will be a great fit for the kid. Thats my story and i'm sticking to it. We'll find out soon enough.

He's a dainty spot-up shooter who's afraid of contact. It's pretty theoretical as far as in-game application goes.

I don't disagree that D'Antoni + Nash is likely one of his best bets to succeed. I just don't see many reasons to think he will. Alright now seriously, I'm done with this thread. It's depressing me. Let Labor Day Weekend begin.

Chrisclover
08-31-2013, 01:09 AM
i am not a diehard fan of any team, but lakers is one of my favourites, which has a lot to deal with Kobe

Are you a Lakers' fan?

Bostonjorge
08-31-2013, 01:10 AM
Lakers will make the playoffs

amos1er
08-31-2013, 01:47 AM
Back in the 2007-2008 season most "experts" picked the Lakers to be a 7-8 seed or miss the playoffs all together. Well guess what... The Lakers were the number one seed in the west and Kobe won MVP... Not to mention the Lakers went to the finals. Lesson... Never underestimate number 24.

ThunderousDemon
08-31-2013, 01:55 AM
If I can see it, then I can do it
If I just believe it, there's nothing to it

Lakers 2013-14


[SPOILER TAG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1187695/birdman-o.gif[/SPOILER TAG]

amos1er
08-31-2013, 01:56 AM
Not everyone can have the luxury Lebron James has of having 5 guys who can shoot over 40% from three including arguably the best three point shooter of all time in Ray Allen. Some guys have to make due with what they have and find a way to win championships without the best three point shooting cast of all time and the most lopsided big three of all time. Not to mention the weakest playoff opponents out of any current player in the top ten of all time. Kobe has found a way to win before without anyone who could shoot over 40% from three and without a top tier superstar at his side against far greater competition than Lebron's Heat have yet faced. I have no doubt that Kobe and this years Laker team will find a way to silence the critics once again... Especially now that the anchor known as Dwight Coward is no longer holding them back.

ThunderousDemon
08-31-2013, 02:04 AM
Not everyone can have the luxury Lebron James has of having 5 guys who can shoot over 40% from three including arguably the best three point shooter of all time in Ray Allen. Some guys have to make due with what they have and find a way to win championships without the best three point shooting cast of all time and the most lopsided big three of all time. Not to mention the weakest playoff opponents out of any current player in the top ten of all time. Kobe has found a way to win before without anyone who could shoot over 40% from three and without a top tier superstar at his side against far greater competition than Lebron's Heat have yet faced. I have no doubt that Kobe and this years Laker team will find a way to silence the critics once again... Especially now that the anchor known as Dwight Coward is no longer holding them back.

[SPOILER TAG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lunt92GhbX1r6984go1_400.gif[/SPOILER TAG]

They're approaching.

Prepare yourself.

amos1er
08-31-2013, 02:09 AM
[SPOILER TAG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lunt92GhbX1r6984go1_400.gif[/SPOILER TAG]

They're approaching.

Prepare yourself.

Lol

OceanSpray
08-31-2013, 03:01 AM
Not everyone can have the luxury Lebron James has of having 5 guys who can shoot over 40% from three including arguably the best three point shooter of all time in Ray Allen. Some guys have to make due with what they have and find a way to win championships without the best three point shooting cast of all time and the most lopsided big three of all time. Not to mention the weakest playoff opponents out of any current player in the top ten of all time. Kobe has found a way to win before without anyone who could shoot over 40% from three and without a top tier superstar at his side against far greater competition than Lebron's Heat have yet faced. I have no doubt that Kobe and this years Laker team will find a way to silence the critics once again... Especially now that the anchor known as Dwight Coward is no longer holding them back.

When did Kobe find a way to win? By finding, you mean being placed with Shaq?

amos1er
08-31-2013, 03:09 AM
When did Kobe find a way to win? By finding, you mean being placed with Shaq?

2009 & 2010

Kobe and Shaq also had less help than Lebron in that they didn't have a third option superstar or 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three. In addition they beat far greater competition en route to their three titles. The disparity in talent in Lebron's favor relative to the competition he has faced is like nothing we have ever seen before.

OceanSpray
08-31-2013, 03:23 AM
2009 & 2010

Kobe and Shaq also had less help than Lebron in that they didn't have a third option superstar or 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three. In addition they beat far greater competition en route to their three titles. The disparity in talent in Lebron's favor relative to the competition he has faced is like nothing we have ever seen before.

did Kobe have less help than leBron's cavs too? oh yeah.. oops, forgot the golden rule. kobe and LAL are the only teams that are allowed to sign quality players, my bad. What's this disparity regarding James team compared to the league? Did you forget they just went to two game 7's? Why would the disparity be so great that it required two game 7's? excuses.. but I know you're going to say "Because James choked" so don't even bother replying and save some time.

amos1er
08-31-2013, 03:25 AM
did Kobe have less help than leBron's cavs too? oh yeah.. oops, forgot the golden rule. kobe and LAL are the only teams that are allowed to sign quality players, my bad. What's this disparity regarding James team compared to the league? Did you forget they just went to two game 7's? Why would the disparity be so great that it required two game 7's? excuses.. but I know you're going to say "Because James choked" so don't even bother replying and save some time.

Because James choked. :D

tredigs
08-31-2013, 05:37 AM
Back in the 2007-2008 season most "experts" picked the Lakers to be a 7-8 seed or miss the playoffs all together. Well guess what... The Lakers were the number one seed in the west and Kobe won MVP... Not to mention the Lakers went to the finals. Lesson... Never underestimate number 24.
Haha what - was that the average age of their beast frontcourt or something? Which was the most dominant in the game to close the year?

Nearly half that teams wins came after acquiring Pau. And it took them less than 30 games. If you took their record from just the games post trade and extrapolate it over the whole year, they projected to like what, 65-17? Whereas without him it was high 40's. Which is exactly what 7-8 seeds are at in the West.

If the biggest of their 3 double-double monsters was healthy for the playoffs they're likely the NBA champions that year.

Kobe was very good, but this folklore needs to end.

jerellh528
08-31-2013, 06:43 AM
James is a huuuuuuuuge choke artist and flopper.

jerellh528
08-31-2013, 06:45 AM
Never count out kobe when it comes down to needing a victory.

archdevil84
08-31-2013, 07:30 AM
Lebron haters inbound! Activate Defensive reply system! oh wait, lakers dont play defense

lakerfan85
08-31-2013, 09:32 AM
Guys Manram and Hawkeye have spoken!! #closethread...

lakerfan85
08-31-2013, 09:45 AM
did Kobe have less help than leBron's cavs too? oh yeah.. oops, forgot the golden rule. kobe and LAL are the only teams that are allowed to sign quality players, my bad. What's this disparity regarding James team compared to the league? Did you forget they just went to two game 7's? Why would the disparity be so great that it required two game 7's? excuses.. but I know you're going to say "Because James choked" so don't even bother replying and save some time.

Those cavs teams were some of the greatest teams ever assembled.. Not sure what you're talking about...

Hawkeye15
08-31-2013, 09:55 AM
why do insecure Kobe fans need to turn everything into a Bron bash?

Rhetorical question obviously, just never ceases to amaze me. What does amaze me, is that people continue to bite on those users and their trolling.

Teeboy1487
08-31-2013, 10:09 AM
I doubt it. Besides playing Dantoni ball never works. The Lakers should tank.

lakerfan85
08-31-2013, 12:08 PM
why do insecure Kobe fans need to turn everything into a Bron bash?

Rhetorical question obviously, just never ceases to amaze me. What does amaze me, is that people continue to bite on those users and their trolling.

Who's bashing lebron??

ztilzer31
08-31-2013, 02:28 PM
why do insecure Kobe fans need to turn everything into a Bron bash?

Rhetorical question obviously, just never ceases to amaze me. What does amaze me, is that people continue to bite on those users and their trolling.

Yeah it's just an endless circle of insecurities from the Lakers fan base. Nothing the LBJ haters say ever adds up. They just put him in an endless double standard.

You can't argue with em. People that don't take in facts are just pointless. Arguing basketball with Kobe fans is like arguing evolution to a Puritan.

Hawkeye15
08-31-2013, 02:35 PM
Yeah it's just an endless circle of insecurities from the Lakers fan base. Nothing the LBJ haters say ever adds up. They just put him in an endless double standard.

You can't argue with em. People that don't take in facts are just pointless. Arguing basketball with Kobe fans is like arguing evolution to a Puritan.

to be fair, I meant the delusional Kobe fans. Plenty of Laker fans here who are reasonable and good posters. But there are a handful who are thread derailers. Not sure why people even bother with them.

amos1er
08-31-2013, 05:19 PM
Haha what - was that the average age of their beast frontcourt or something? Which was the most dominant in the game to close the year?

Nearly half that teams wins came after acquiring Pau. And it took them less than 30 games. If you took their record from just the games post trade and extrapolate it over the whole year, they projected to like what, 65-17? Whereas without him it was high 40's. Which is exactly what 7-8 seeds are at in the West.

If the biggest of their 3 double-double monsters was healthy for the playoffs they're likely the NBA champions that year.

Kobe was very good, but this folklore needs to end.

You are completely off base on this one. The Lakers were 30-16 before Pau played his first game on Feb 6, 2008. A win percentage of 65%. Pretty damn good considering Bynum missed 11 of the 46 games the Lakers played without Pau and Odom missed five of those games as well. Thats 16 out of 46 games that Kobe didn't even have his best two sidekicks on the floor, yet he still was able to lead the Lakers to a record of 30-16 (65%) in the very competitive west without Pau. The Lakers were even the number one team in the west for a brief stretch before Pau was traded for. So yes, even without Pau that year, Kobe was having one of the most prolific NBA seasons in NBA history and taking a team of mostly scrubs farther than anyone could have taken them in the league including Lebron who only was able to rally off a .500 record that year in the weak east while Kobe was playing .650 ball with his team of scrubs in the highly competitive west before Pau got there.

Your little projected analysis is flawed as well. The 2009 win projections were factoring in a healthy Bynum, which was a luxury the Lakers didn't have in 2008 when Pau first joined the team. In addition, the 65 win projection was based largely on their performance in the previous year which of course was a shock to begin with considering many so called "experts" picked them to be a .500 team once again. They were wrong. Kobe lead the Lakers to .650 without Pau and Bynum for 11 of those games and Odom for 5 of those games and a brief stint at the number one seed in the west. Kobe was truly the MVP that year for sure. He even schooled CP3 in one of the final games of the season when the number one seed was on the line. Kobe showed up against his strongest opponent for MVP while CP3 was clearly overshadowed by the superior Bryant at the time when it counted most. Further proof of this can be found when comparing their playoff stats vs. the San Antonio Spurs that very same season.

amos1er
08-31-2013, 05:36 PM
Those cavs teams were some of the greatest teams ever assembled.. Not sure what you're talking about...

Lol. Lebronites will never admit that Lebron's Cleveland teams were decent. Nor will they admit that the east is much weaker than the west. According to them, Lebron's Cleveland teams were D-League worthy and the east was just as if not more competitive than the west. To hell with reality right... Lol.

Tony_Starks
08-31-2013, 06:00 PM
The overall roster improved and got younger. Take that plus Kobe and Gasol and that's enough to make a lil noise in the playoffs.

I love the fact that people are counting them out already, it's going to be a great season....

PurpleLynch
08-31-2013, 07:14 PM
Kobe even at 80% for 70 games, and a healthy Pau are good enough to win you guys 35 games alone. You would have to leap frog some teams that are terrible in order to get one of the guys you listed (at least for now, we will see where these players fall after a college season).

I just hope...darks times are coming in Lakersland for a while(I mean it started when we got destroyed by Dallas,but more to come).

amos1er
08-31-2013, 07:19 PM
I just hope...darks times are coming in Lakersland for a while(I mean it started when we got destroyed by Dallas,but more to come).

Honestly, it started with Jim Buss. :(

alexander_37
08-31-2013, 08:52 PM
Nonoononononononoonononononononoononononononononon oo

Matter.
08-31-2013, 11:00 PM
The Lakers will be fun to watch no maatter whatttt

Kashmir13579
08-31-2013, 11:05 PM
are you? Dude, Wes Johnson is ****ing horrible. THE worst starter in the game for 2 years, and could barely make a rotation for a gutter team last year.

I know you love you some Cuse players, but he is awful.
I know you hate all Cuse players. ;)

Tony_Starks
09-01-2013, 01:54 AM
I heard that Jodie Meeks was a horrible shooter before last season and saw him light it up numerous times last year. I'm just saying that green light from the coach does wonders. That's Dantonis single greatest feature....

Kashmir13579
09-01-2013, 02:23 AM
I heard that Jodie Meeks was a horrible shooter before last season and saw him light it up numerous times last year. I'm just saying that green light from the coach does wonders. That's Dantonis single greatest feature....
I'm right there with you on this. He gives his players confidence on that end.

SportsFanatic10
09-01-2013, 03:29 AM
they might make the playoffs but it'll be tough. and i don't think they'll be an amazing 3pt shooting team. they'll probably take alot of them though.

RollingWave
09-01-2013, 03:47 AM
There's a lot of variation on most player in terms of making 3s, Young's been all over the place in his career, generally above average, but overall scoring efficiency is meh at best. likewise with Farmar. But as other folks generally pointed out, scoring isn't going to be the issue with the Lakers, it's the defense. or the complete lack there of.

Projected starting 5's last season defense (RAPM)

Nash : -1.8
Kobe : -1.2
Young: -2.3
Pau : 1.6
Kaman: 1.4

an over -2.3 , that's not good at all. especially when the defense is likely worse. and the overall offense while good, isn't going to be OKC or anything.

those 5 player's RAPM last year adds up to 2.2, which would be enough for the playoffs.... if we assume the Bench isn't that much worse and everyone's healthy to keep that pace for the whole year, both seems like a doubtful assumption.

(in comparison, the Blazer's starting 5 last year was +3.7. and they won 30 some games.)

PurpleLynch
09-01-2013, 06:10 AM
Honestly, it started with Jim Buss. :(

His fault was his own arrogance. Even Dr.Buss took advices on every aspect of the team,he took the final decisions,but he listened to each advice. He knew that there are a lot of people who knew basketball better than him(Sharman,West and Kupchak) and the full cast of the organization. That is the only way to have an efficient organization(and Lakers history is the proof).

Hawkeye15
09-01-2013, 01:52 PM
I know you hate all Cuse players. ;)

well, show me I am wrong. And it's just their guards, thanks Kahn (I should be thanking Boheim).

Honestly, show me how Wes Johnson hasn't been absolutely pathetic in the NBA.

Goose17
09-01-2013, 02:10 PM
Unless Nash gets back to his MVP ways I doubt this will happen.

They have a lot of shooters though, so an't rule it out completely... right?

TrueFan420
09-01-2013, 02:29 PM
well, show me I am wrong. And it's just their guards, thanks Kahn (I should be thanking Boheim).

Honestly, show me how Wes Johnson hasn't been absolutely pathetic in the NBA.
He's got a better chance of convincing someone the worlds flat or the earth is he center of the universe. I was high on Wes out of college but he's been horrid while in the nba.

OceanSpray
09-02-2013, 12:00 AM
Lol. Lebronites will never admit that Lebron's Cleveland teams were decent. Nor will they admit that the east is much weaker than the west. According to them, Lebron's Cleveland teams were D-League worthy and the east was just as if not more competitive than the west. To hell with reality right... Lol.

Yeah, because Kobe would've led that Cleveland team to the NBA finals, right? Haha, good argument. Cleveland was good because of James. LAL was good because of Kobe... and Gasol... and Bynum... and Odom... and Artest. Mo Williams isn't even better than Ron Artest - who was the 4th best player on that LAL roster.

PurpleLynch
09-02-2013, 05:48 AM
Yeah, because Kobe would've led that Cleveland team to the NBA finals, right? Haha, good argument. Cleveland was good because of James. LAL was good because of Kobe... and Gasol... and Bynum... and Odom... and Artest. Mo Williams isn't even better than Ron Artest - who was the 4th best player on that LAL roster.

We all know that Lebron was the best player of the Cavaliers. But history says that Lebron joined Wade and Bosh to win a championship. Kobe sticked with the Lakers for his whole life and in 2007-2008 had this team in the playoffs: Odom,Fisher,Gasol(count that he wasn't with us at the start of the season,in fact he didn't played like 2009-2010 or 2008-2009),Farmar,Walton,Radmanovic,Vujacic and Turiaf. These players I named are the players who played the entire playoffs(beside Turiaf). As you see even the Lakers reached the Finals with an overall mediocre team,beside a core of Kobe-Gasol-Fisher-Odom,that wasn't for sure a juggernaut. The difference for me was Phil Jackson>Mike Brown.

Now,Lebron in already a future HoF,he can do a lot of things yet,but after last year he confirmed his status to me,so I'm not bashing him,just stop comparing Kobe and Lebron,they have different roles in their respective teams and different,but equally respectable,career.

But I agree with you,Cleveland teams were awful,but Mo Williams and Jamison were valuable role players at the time. They weren't that bad(es:Bobcats) since a 66-16 record can't be attributed only to Lebron in my opinion.


Now a challenge to real fans:Lebron or Bird? Now that's a gutsy comparison,stop with that Kobe/Lebron ********.

Kashmir13579
09-02-2013, 05:51 AM
well, show me I am wrong. And it's just their guards, thanks Kahn (I should be thanking Boheim).

Honestly, show me how Wes Johnson hasn't been absolutely pathetic in the NBA.

I don't think my argument was ever that Wes Johnson hasn't struggled in his three years in the league. Show me where it was.

OceanSpray
09-02-2013, 11:43 AM
Yeah, because Kobe would've led that Cleveland team to the NBA finals, right? Haha, good argument. Cleveland was good because of James. LAL was good because of Kobe... and Gasol... and Bynum... and Odom... and Artest. Mo Williams isn't even better than Ron Artest - who was the 4th best player on that LAL roster.

We all know that Lebron was the best player of the Cavaliers. But history says that Lebron joined Wade and Bosh to win a championship. Kobe sticked with the Lakers for his whole life and in 2007-2008 had this team in the playoffs: Odom,Fisher,Gasol(count that he wasn't with us at the start of the season,in fact he didn't played like 2009-2010 or 2008-2009),Farmar,Walton,Radmanovic,Vujacic and Turiaf. These players I named are the players who played the entire playoffs(beside Turiaf). As you see even the Lakers reached the Finals with an overall mediocre team,beside a core of Kobe-Gasol-Fisher-Odom,that wasn't for sure a juggernaut. The difference for me was Phil Jackson>Mike Brown.

Now,Lebron in already a future HoF,he can do a lot of things yet,but after last year he confirmed his status to me,so I'm not bashing him,just stop comparing Kobe and Lebron,they have different roles in their respective teams and different,but equally respectable,career.

But I agree with you,Cleveland teams were awful,but Mo Williams and Jamison were valuable role players at the time. They weren't that bad(es:Bobcats) since a 66-16 record can't be attributed only to Lebron in my opinion.


Now a challenge to real fans:Lebron or Bird? Now that's a gutsy comparison,stop with that Kobe/Lebron ********.

Did you seriously argue that kobe had no help and that he stuck around?

1) Kobe didn't stick around until Jerry West - who is regarded as the greatest owner, stepped in and promised change. What do you know? They grabbed a top 3 pf and not to mention bynum, odom, and soon metta. Kobe was crying and contemplating a trade to the detroit pistons when he couldn't accomplish squat for 3 years.. He publicly states that he wanted a trade. It's funny you guys always bring that up about Kobe.. Wasn't this the guy who didn't want to play for charlotte and forced them to trade for vlade? As you said, jamison and mo williams were "role players". Lebron stuck around with a franchise who claimed help was coming but signed a 37 year old shaq?Funny because they were his two best players, yet they're role players on any other team? That just says it all about his team. If you had put kobe on that team in exchange for james, kobe would commit suicide.

PurpleLynch
09-02-2013, 05:10 PM
Did you seriously argue that kobe had no help and that he stuck around?

1) Kobe didn't stick around until Jerry West - who is regarded as the greatest owner, stepped in and promised change. What do you know? They grabbed a top 3 pf and not to mention bynum, odom, and soon metta. Kobe was crying and contemplating a trade to the detroit pistons when he couldn't accomplish squat for 3 years.. He publicly states that he wanted a trade. It's funny you guys always bring that up about Kobe.. Wasn't this the guy who didn't want to play for charlotte and forced them to trade for vlade? As you said, jamison and mo williams were "role players". Lebron stuck around with a franchise who claimed help was coming but signed a 37 year old shaq?Funny because they were his two best players, yet they're role players on any other team? That just says it all about his team. If you had put kobe on that team in exchange for james, kobe would commit suicide.

Man,1-I didn't said he didn't had help,I said in the 2007-2008 season Lakers reached the Finals and lost against Boston,with a team that had Gasol,Odom and Fisher is core,and you can't argue about it,it was a normal core,better than Cleveland,but also we had a bench based on Vujacic,Radmanovic,Walton and Farmar( we didn't have Bynum).
2-Kobe was in his first three years of the Nba,how can you think that he had so much power that West built a team just to not send him away.Probably it involves the fact that the last thing Lakers won was in 1988. Kobe also inked a 6 years extension during the 1998-1999
3-Yes,he asked for a trade and also denied it three days later,asked for the return of Jerry West and so the story goes on;yes he did have his moment of drama,like Lebron,Howard,Magic(when they sent away Westphal) and also other great players. So what? Are you gonna say that Lebron is a better player because he sticked at Cleveland for a long time before going to the Heat with two superstars and one legendary leader(Riley) in the FO? You have to understand that players are people,they live on it. Even if in these years there is so much drama around the Nba and I don't apprecieate it,you have to consider that they are people,with their own weaknesses,vices etc.
I'm not saying they have to be praised for it,but also not blame for it. Everyone has his skeletons in the closet.
4-Jerry West was not a owner.
5-Kobe stuck around ,the proof is that he remained to the Lakers for his whole life,it's illogical to say the opposite.His final choice was always to be a Laker,beside all drama,if he wanted to go away,you can be sure Kobe would be in another team,he's Kobe after all and he cares about winning. But he stayed anyway. He is just a bit douchey and why not,egoistic?We already knew it. Every rose has its thorns :p

TrueFan420
09-03-2013, 02:22 AM
You need to stop saying Bynum wasnt apart of your core just cause he was hurt during the finals. You built around him he was played but was often hurt. He landed you Dwight. He was a massive piece of your team just hurt.

PurpleLynch
09-03-2013, 07:28 AM
You need to stop saying Bynum wasnt apart of your core just cause he was hurt during the finals. You built around him he was played but was often hurt. He landed you Dwight. He was a massive piece of your team just hurt.

And you need to check your facts: Bynum did not play a single minute in the playoff run that ended with Boston winning the championship,I'm just saying that.He played just 35 games in the regular season. I'm talkin about that year only. I know Bynum was a good piece in our championships,I'm not stupid.

TrueFan420
09-03-2013, 12:43 PM
Even of he only played 35 minutes let alone games when your listing off your core you name him. He wasnt just some random player that didnt play he was a massive part that got hurt. Now you include the hurt but your comparing the core players of two teams and hurt or not he was a core player.

ldawg
09-03-2013, 02:11 PM
Bynum was not part of the core he was a role player. Did he play a big role, yes. so did Ariza Farmar, Fisher. He missed many games and played limited minutes off the bench. His role increased his last two seasons on the Lakers when he moved in the starting line up he did jump to a 20ppg player. However the team never found sync being he was the second option. West and others sounded out that the two center thing was not going to work and the team was to long in the tooth. The team was not build around bynum until his last two seasons both of which the Lakers went home early. When Lakers won the titles and in the 4th quarter majority of the minutes went to Kobe,Odom,Pau that was the main core. Even cousins were teasing him.

tredigs
09-03-2013, 03:32 PM
Bynum was not part of the core he was a role player. Did he play a big role, yes. so did Ariza Farmar, Fisher. He missed many games and played limited minutes off the bench. His role increased his last two seasons on the Lakers when he moved in the starting line up he did jump to a 20ppg player. However the team never found sync being he was the second option. West and others sounded out that the two center thing was not going to work and the team was to long in the tooth. The team was not build around bynum until his last two seasons both of which the Lakers went home early. When Lakers won the titles and in the 4th quarter majority of the minutes went to Kobe,Odom,Pau that was the main core. Even cousins were teasing him.

Just stop. He's been considered a top 10 center for the last 5 years. Top 5 the last 4 years, and top 2 the past 2 seasons on LA. On most nights he played he was the most impactful defender and rebounder on the floor. Along with Pau and Odom, they were truly the mismatches that gave teams the most trouble. Kobe was their most prolific player, but as we know - even with a beasting Odom - he's not capable of winning without highly skilled towers. I know that personally I never dreaded the shooting onslaught from Kobe, it was the the easy rebounds, rim protection and point paints that I knew their 7 footers would kill us on.

tredigs
09-03-2013, 04:19 PM
Never count out kobe when it comes down to needing a victory.

Most missed game winners in NBA history. Had more in 5 seasons than MJ in his entire career. So, you do you.

PurpleLynch
09-04-2013, 07:01 AM
Just stop. He's been considered a top 10 center for the last 5 years. Top 5 the last 4 years, and top 2 the past 2 seasons on LA. On most nights he played he was the most impactful defender and rebounder on the floor. Along with Pau and Odom, they were truly the mismatches that gave teams the most trouble. Kobe was their most prolific player, but as we know - even with a beasting Odom - he's not capable of winning without highly skilled towers. I know that personally I never dreaded the shooting onslaught from Kobe, it was the the easy rebounds, rim protection and point paints that I knew their 7 footers would kill us on.

So now "Kobe is not capable of winning without highly skilled towers". I guess you based your opinion on the fact Kobe didn't win anything in the years between Shaq's years and Gasol/Bynum's years. That's not obviously the fault of a whole team based on Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Brian Cook,Chris Mihm,Vujacic ,Walton etc.
Anyway,Saying that Bynum was a top 2 centers in the last 2 years with the Lakers is right,but also a bad sign for the C position:when you are considered in the top 2 centers in the league and you are incosistent for all of you're years(both phisically,not his fault, and mentally),it's really a bad sign.

Ps:a center who jacks up a three and when benched is laughing for that,for me is never a top center,but a top idiot.

PurpleLynch
09-04-2013, 07:03 AM
Most missed game winners in NBA history. Had more in 5 seasons than MJ in his entire career. So, you do you.

Yeah,because victories needs everytime a game winner bucket. In fact Robert Horry is the goat(7 championships,a lot of game winners in crucial times).
Mj is the definition of clutch,but clutch is also a player who gets fire in the 4th quarter and hit a lot of shots,unless you consider clutch only the game winner bucket.

ldawg
09-04-2013, 07:41 AM
Just stop. He's been considered a top 10 center for the last 5 years. Top 5 the last 4 years, and top 2 the past 2 seasons on LA. On most nights he played he was the most impactful defender and rebounder on the floor. Along with Pau and Odom, they were truly the mismatches that gave teams the most trouble. Kobe was their most prolific player, but as we know - even with a beasting Odom - he's not capable of winning without highly skilled towers. I know that personally I never dreaded the shooting onslaught from Kobe, it was the the easy rebounds, rim protection and point paints that I knew their 7 footers would kill us on.sound like you described s role player to me. Pau and Kobe was the core the hart,voice,leaders,the soul of the team. Thats not saying bynum did not contribute. Never heard of a core player that dont close games. Yes he was viewed as one of the best centers in the NBA when healthy so did Oden. Bynum had mad potential and he proved when healthy he is a monster at times. If he was the Core and was needed to win titles why did Jackson and some in the organization wanted him traded to retool the team?

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 06:33 PM
We all know that Lebron was the best player of the Cavaliers. But history says that Lebron joined Wade and Bosh to win a championship. Kobe sticked with the Lakers for his whole life and in 2007-2008 had this team in the playoffs: Odom,Fisher,Gasol(count that he wasn't with us at the start of the season,in fact he didn't played like 2009-2010 or 2008-2009),Farmar,Walton,Radmanovic,Vujacic and Turiaf. These players I named are the players who played the entire playoffs(beside Turiaf). As you see even the Lakers reached the Finals with an overall mediocre team,beside a core of Kobe-Gasol-Fisher-Odom,that wasn't for sure a juggernaut. The difference for me was Phil Jackson>Mike Brown.

Now,Lebron in already a future HoF,he can do a lot of things yet,but after last year he confirmed his status to me,so I'm not bashing him,just stop comparing Kobe and Lebron,they have different roles in their respective teams and different,but equally respectable,career.

But I agree with you,Cleveland teams were awful,but Mo Williams and Jamison were valuable role players at the time. They weren't that bad(es:Bobcats) since a 66-16 record can't be attributed only to Lebron in my opinion.


Now a challenge to real fans:Lebron or Bird? Now that's a gutsy comparison,stop with that Kobe/Lebron ********.

you seem rational from what I can tell in your posting. You understand WHY the bolded is true, right?

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 06:36 PM
I don't think my argument was ever that Wes Johnson hasn't struggled in his three years in the league. Show me where it was.

I know, you simply said he will thrive in an NBA basketball system. How on earth can you think that when he was been arguably the worst starting wing in the game for 2 years, and a crappy role player on a gutter team in another year?

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 06:37 PM
Yeah,because victories needs everytime a game winner bucket. In fact Robert Horry is the goat(7 championships,a lot of game winners in crucial times).
Mj is the definition of clutch,but clutch is also a player who gets fire in the 4th quarter and hit a lot of shots,unless you consider clutch only the game winner bucket.

To be fair, when the numbers came out on Kobes "clutchness", his fans lost their shield of public perception. The study shows that fans, coaches, GM's, and media have as much selective memory as anyone.

jbeezy
09-04-2013, 06:42 PM
I love my Lakers but if Kobe is not back to his old self, Gasol doesnt go back to his 2008-2010 form and Nash doesnt play a little bit close to his old self then we are destined for a mediocre season. My prediction 37-40 wins.

PurpleLynch
09-04-2013, 08:21 PM
you seem rational from what I can tell in your posting. You understand WHY the bolded is true, right?

Sorry Hawkeye but I'm italian so my knowledge in english is surely poorer than yours.I'm saying that because I didn't understand what bolded means :).Did you mean "embolden"? If the answer is yes,sure I know what I was writing and I say it again that Lebron was the best player(ever too I think) in the Cleveland Cavaliers history. And I sincerely don't judge him for his choice,indeed he did the right thing,he wanted rings and he got rings(like any competitive player should do).My point is that Kobe,beside all drama,stuck with the Lakers,that doesn't mean is a better player than Lebron,it's just a fact,nothing else.Did he get lucky when he was traded to the Lakers? Yes,he got 5 championships in one of the best organizations of Nba history.But that,in my humble opinion,doesn't mean that Lebron is better(morally too) because he stuck with the Cavs for a long time. People on psd are saying that he's better just because he led the Cavs to unprecendented records,because he led the Cavs to the Finals with a mediocre team(that's why I pulled the 2007-2008 Lakers team),but it's a fallacious logic for me(also I don't accept comparisons between players that play in different positions,even more when they compare players of different Nba's eras).
And also,I'm a Laker fan,so anyone can say I'm biased,but I think Kobe got too much hate that he doesn't deserve. He's one of the best in history,just consider him as Kobe Bryant,not the next Mj,not Lebron,not anyone.Just Kobe Bryant. And in my previous post I said that if you wanna really do a comparison,do a Bird/Lebron debate(even if I won't approve this kind of thing)but it's better than a stupid Kobe/Lebron comparison.

PurpleLynch
09-04-2013, 08:33 PM
To be fair, when the numbers came out on Kobes "clutchness", his fans lost their shield of public perception. The study shows that fans, coaches, GM's, and media have as much selective memory as anyone.

I already knew it. Obviously everyone's gonna take Kobe for a clutch shot. And he isn't the best at that,stats don't lie. But one thing make him apart from the others:he isn't afraid of taking clutch shots. In my opinion it's something that goes under the radar in this kind of stats(I'm not saying he's the king of clutch,but man,stats wise Carmelo Anthony was the most clutch player in 2011,followed by Chris Paul and Shawn Marion...And I dare anyone to say that Carmelo Anthony is the most clutch Nba player or I dare anyone to say : ok let's give the ball to Marion for the last play).

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 09:31 PM
I already knew it. Obviously everyone's gonna take Kobe for a clutch shot. And he isn't the best at that,stats don't lie. But one thing make him apart from the others:he isn't afraid of taking clutch shots. In my opinion it's something that goes under the radar in this kind of stats(I'm not saying he's the king of clutch,but man,stats wise Carmelo Anthony was the most clutch player in 2011,followed by Chris Paul and Shawn Marion...And I dare anyone to say that Carmelo Anthony is the most clutch Nba player or I dare anyone to say : ok let's give the ball to Marion for the last play).

the problem is, not only is he not afraid, he is so possessed by tunnel vision at those points, the Lakers offense becomes pathetic.

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 10:28 PM
Sorry Hawkeye but I'm italian so my knowledge in english is surely poorer than yours.I'm saying that because I didn't understand what bolded means :).Did you mean "embolden"? If the answer is yes,sure I know what I was writing and I say it again that Lebron was the best player(ever too I think) in the Cleveland Cavaliers history. And I sincerely don't judge him for his choice,indeed he did the right thing,he wanted rings and he got rings(like any competitive player should do).My point is that Kobe,beside all drama,stuck with the Lakers,that doesn't mean is a better player than Lebron,it's just a fact,nothing else.Did he get lucky when he was traded to the Lakers? Yes,he got 5 championships in one of the best organizations of Nba history.But that,in my humble opinion,doesn't mean that Lebron is better(morally too) because he stuck with the Cavs for a long time. People on psd are saying that he's better just because he led the Cavs to unprecendented records,because he led the Cavs to the Finals with a mediocre team(that's why I pulled the 2007-2008 Lakers team),but it's a fallacious logic for me(also I don't accept comparisons between players that play in different positions,even more when they compare players of different Nba's eras).
And also,I'm a Laker fan,so anyone can say I'm biased,but I think Kobe got too much hate that he doesn't deserve. He's one of the best in history,just consider him as Kobe Bryant,not the next Mj,not Lebron,not anyone.Just Kobe Bryant. And in my previous post I said that if you wanna really do a comparison,do a Bird/Lebron debate(even if I won't approve this kind of thing)but it's better than a stupid Kobe/Lebron comparison.

you look at LeBron's free agency, and Kobe's gifted situation correct.

LeBron is better, because he has simply taken a statistical dump on Kobe, won more accolades at his tenure, and projects to beat up Kobe all over the board.

The only competition LeBron faces all time, at this point, unless hit by a truck, is MJ, Wilt, and KAJ. Kobe is in the rear view mirror, as is Bird, if he just simply maintains his play for a few years.

ldawg
09-04-2013, 10:48 PM
This may sound nuts but i dont see the Lakers being pass the 7th seed as constructed and thats a stretch. Their defense will suck and they wont be great on offense either. Having said that they are one player and one tendon away from being a top 3 team. Young will chuck it up but they need another chucker. Sound crazy? With no d they got to be great on the other end and I dont see Nick being able to avg 27ppg. Beasley may be that guy to balance this team out so they wont be predictable with Kobe and Young chucking. Word out they have no interest Beasley and choose to sign another stiff pot head in Williams who is no where close to player Beasley is. They are fools. If Kobe tendon is not healthy and Young is their only scorer they are in big trouble. That means the next chucker in line is Meeks. Will that be their Game changer off the bench, Meeks. If Lakers can sign Beasley that give them another option. Its safe to say they wont be a good defensive team so they better be great offensively and thats Beasley department. If Kobe has any set back or if young get injured they will be in the lotto in an instant. They have zero room for error. As constructed expect a hobbled Kobe to play just like he did last season and that wont get them far. Beasley can be that player that can come in and provide some offense and help out young and Kobe with the scoring load and have a balance attack. Either young or Beasley can start next to Kobe get the ball out Kobe hands and let the Pg nash, Blake Farmar run the show it will make them less predictable. Kobe should avg no more than 28mpg 22ppg in the first half of the season and Nash 19mpg until playoffs. Anytime there is a need to over work those two plays its a wrap for them. One thing i know about b easy he can score and he can with either hand any side of the floor. Much better option than Williams. They are both pot heads and run ins with the law so why not get the better player that gives you more options?

PurpleLynch
09-05-2013, 05:26 AM
you look at LeBron's free agency, and Kobe's gifted situation correct.

LeBron is better, because he has simply taken a statistical dump on Kobe, won more accolades at his tenure, and projects to beat up Kobe all over the board.

The only competition LeBron faces all time, at this point, unless hit by a truck, is MJ, Wilt, and KAJ. Kobe is in the rear view mirror, as is Bird, if he just simply maintains his play for a few years.

Mj,Wilt and Kaj are the best players in history in your opinion?(I'm just asking,not ironic) Just stat wise,imo,is still on the level of Bird(24.3ppg,10rpg,6.3apg)and do you think he can handle his playstyle with age?

PurpleLynch
09-05-2013, 05:28 AM
This may sound nuts but i dont see the Lakers being pass the 7th seed as constructed and thats a stretch. Their defense will suck and they wont be great on offense either. Having said that they are one player and one tendon away from being a top 3 team. Young will chuck it up but they need another chucker. Sound crazy? With no d they got to be great on the other end and I dont see Nick being able to avg 27ppg. Beasley may be that guy to balance this team out so they wont be predictable with Kobe and Young chucking. Word out they have no interest Beasley and choose to sign another stiff pot head in Williams who is no where close to player Beasley is. They are fools. If Kobe tendon is not healthy and Young is their only scorer they are in big trouble. That means the next chucker in line is Meeks. Will that be their Game changer off the bench, Meeks. If Lakers can sign Beasley that give them another option. Its safe to say they wont be a good defensive team so they better be great offensively and thats Beasley department. If Kobe has any set back or if young get injured they will be in the lotto in an instant. They have zero room for error. As constructed expect a hobbled Kobe to play just like he did last season and that wont get them far. Beasley can be that player that can come in and provide some offense and help out young and Kobe with the scoring load and have a balance attack. Either young or Beasley can start next to Kobe get the ball out Kobe hands and let the Pg nash, Blake Farmar run the show it will make them less predictable. Kobe should avg no more than 28mpg 22ppg in the first half of the season and Nash 19mpg until playoffs. Anytime there is a need to over work those two plays its a wrap for them. One thing i know about b easy he can score and he can with either hand any side of the floor. Much better option than Williams. They are both pot heads and run ins with the law so why not get the better player that gives you more options?

We got Williams. It's over. No Beasley,no playoff,no nothing.Just tanking this year for a bright future.

Hawkeye15
09-05-2013, 01:17 PM
Mj,Wilt and Kaj are the best players in history in your opinion?(I'm just asking,not ironic) Just stat wise,imo,is still on the level of Bird(24.3ppg,10rpg,6.3apg)and do you think he can handle his playstyle with age?

Those are my staple top 3, yes.

LeBron's efficiency during his current peak of the last 6 years is already higher than anything Bird produced. Factor in Bron being a superior defender, and the fact that at this point Bird's body was on breakdown mode due to injuries and his own stupid ***, it adds up to Bron not only passing him already for me, but even if you believe they are still on par, Bron shoots by him quickly.

Kashmir13579
09-05-2013, 02:17 PM
I know, you simply said he will thrive in an NBA basketball system. How on earth can you think that when he was been arguably the worst starting wing in the game for 2 years, and a crappy role player on a gutter team in another year?
It depends what you think i meant by thrive. Look at it this way, he's joining up with his hero/mentor and D'antoni on a one year deal, i bet another team offers him a multi-year deal next offseason. Simple as that. If you disagree, we will find out this season if you are right and i am wrong.

I know you have a personal dislike for the kid as your team drafted him with a 4th overall pick, which proved itself to be an awful reach. You are partial to want him to fail. I'm a fan of the kid and want him to succeed so i'm looking at this as an opportunity for him.

Hawkeye15
09-05-2013, 02:23 PM
It depends what you think i meant by thrive. Look at it this way, he's joining up with his hero/mentor and D'antoni on a one year deal, i bet another team offers him a multi-year deal next offseason. Simple as that. If you disagree, we will find out this season if you are right and i am wrong.

I know you have a personal dislike for the kid as your team drafted him with a 4th overall pick, which proved itself to be an awful reach. You are partial to want him to fail. I'm a fan of the kid and want him to succeed so i'm looking at this as an opportunity for him.

I absolutely don't want Johnson to fail, he is a really nice young man by all accounts. I just don't see anything in him, or his game, that shows me he is going to suddenly become even a slightly reliable role player at age 26.

We will see. Wonder what the barometer should be for us to even follow with a vested interest.

Kashmir13579
09-05-2013, 02:36 PM
I absolutely don't want Johnson to fail, he is a really nice young man by all accounts. I just don't see anything in him, or his game, that shows me he is going to suddenly become even a slightly reliable role player at age 26.

We will see. Wonder what the barometer should be for us to even follow with a vested interest.

Other than being a freak athlete, with a wingspan and a jumpsot? D'antoni will utilize the kid.

Hawkeye15
09-05-2013, 02:37 PM
Other than being a freak athlete, with a wingspan and a jumpsot? D'antoni will utilize the kid.

with no balls, an overrated jumpshot, and allergic reaction to the paint haha. Cmon man, he has sucked. If he turns into anything, I am surprised.

Kashmir13579
09-05-2013, 02:53 PM
with no balls, an overrated jumpshot, and allergic reaction to the paint haha. Cmon man, he has sucked. If he turns into anything, I am surprised.
He has sucked, never did i deny that. What it comes down to for me is a question. Is Wesley Johnson an intrinsically better capable player than Bill Walker or Shawne Williams, (two equally suspect wings D'antoni has made productive in his system, albeit on less talented teams) I say he is by far.

Hawkeye15
09-05-2013, 03:00 PM
He has sucked, never did i deny that. What it comes down to for me is a question. Is Wesley Johnson an intrinsically better capable player than Bill Walker or Shawne Williams, (two equally suspect wings D'antoni has made productive in his system, albeit on less talented teams) I say he is by far.

aiight. We will see. Give me an acceptable line that you need him to meet.

Kashmir13579
09-05-2013, 03:08 PM
aiight. We will see. Give me an acceptable line that you need him to meet.

A few things i'm looking for, WS/48 north of .100, ORtg of 108+, 10ppg

Modest numbers but enough to show he's helping win basketball games and thriving under D'antoni.

Hawkeye15
09-05-2013, 03:32 PM
A few things i'm looking for, WS/48 north of .100, ORtg of 108+, 10ppg

Modest numbers but enough to show he's helping win basketball games and thriving under D'antoni.

it would blow me away if he achieved those numbers. We will see man.

Zefflin
09-05-2013, 03:48 PM
LA Outcasts sign xavier henry 3 year deal..

sep11ie
09-05-2013, 04:08 PM
Lakers forum.