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DreamShaker
08-26-2013, 10:38 PM
Who are the top 5 defenders at every position currently?

ManRam
08-26-2013, 10:53 PM
Off the top of my head


PG: Conley, Holiday, Paul, Rondo, Westbrook

SG: Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green, Wade

SF: Paul George, Iguodala, LeBron James, Leonard, Sefolosha

PF: Anthony Davis, Duncan, Faried, Garnett, Ibaka

C: Chandler, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Noah, Sanders (added 1)

Ezio
08-26-2013, 11:06 PM
I would put Deng instead of Sefo but thats the homer in me.

JerseyPalahniuk
08-26-2013, 11:09 PM
Off the top of my head


PG: Conley, Holiday, Paul, Rondo, Westbrook

SG: Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green, Wade

SF: Paul George, Iguodala, LeBron James, Leonard, Sefolosha

PF: Anthony Davis, Duncan, Faried, Garnett, Ibaka

C: Chandler, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Noah, Sanders (added 1)

Great list! Especially off the top of your head. In before Knicks fans get mad about Shumpert not being there.

flea
08-26-2013, 11:11 PM
Off the top of my head


PG: Conley, Holiday, Paul, Rondo, Westbrook

SG: Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green, Wade

SF: Paul George, Iguodala, LeBron James, Leonard, Sefolosha

PF: Anthony Davis, Duncan, Faried, Garnett, Ibaka

C: Chandler, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Noah, Sanders (added 1)

Good list, the only issue I could even think to have would be Faried's inclusion. But who instead? I'd like to say Bosh, since he's still a PF despite playing center most of the time.

ManRam
08-26-2013, 11:14 PM
I would put Deng instead of Sefo but thats the homer in me.

I actually might too. In all honesty I paid no attention to Thabo last year so maybe I'm wrong there. He might have been terrible defensively last year for all I know. That was pretty much off of reputation.


Wade might not deserve to be on there either but I was drawing blanks for a 5th SG.

And Thabo probably is a 2 anyways. Maybe I'd bump Thabo to the 2, boot Wade and add Deng

mrblisterdundee
08-26-2013, 11:16 PM
PG - Chris Paul, Mike Conley, Avery Bradley, Russell Westbrook and Eric Bledsoe
SG - Tony Allen, Thabo Sefolosha, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green and Corey Brewer
SF - LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Luol Deng and Andre Igoudala
PF - Serge Ibaka, Tim Duncan, Larry Sanders, Kevin Garnett and Kenneth Faried
C - Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah and Roy Hibbert

Hellcrooner
08-26-2013, 11:23 PM
tehre arent 5 defenders worth mentioning at each position.

a bunch of average defenders and thats it.

BirdIsTheWord
08-26-2013, 11:40 PM
Off the top of my head


PG: Conley, Holiday, Paul, Rondo, Westbrook

SG: Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green, Wade

SF: Paul George, Iguodala, LeBron James, Leonard, Sefolosha

PF: Anthony Davis, Duncan, Faried, Garnett, Ibaka

C: Chandler, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Noah, Sanders (added 1)

I wouldn't have Faried there and I'm a Nuggets fan. I'd probably put Josh Smith in there. Other than that I think you nailed it.

tredigs
08-26-2013, 11:41 PM
Off the top of mine:

PG: Conley - Lowry - Bledsoe - Rubio - Bradley

SG: Tony Allen - Sefalosha - Shumpert - K. Thompson - Brewer

SF: Iggy - Lebron - George - Kawhi - KD

PF: Duncan - Ibaka - KG - J Smoove - A Davis

C: M Gasol - Noah - Hibbert - Sanders - Howard

ManRam
08-26-2013, 11:45 PM
PG - Chris Paul, Mike Conley, Avery Bradley, Russell Westbrook and Eric Bledsoe
SG - Tony Allen, Thabo Sefolosha, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green and Corey Brewer
SF - LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Luol Deng and Andre Igoudala
PF - Serge Ibaka, Tim Duncan, Larry Sanders, Kevin Garnett and Kenneth Faried
C - Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah and Roy Hibbert

Glad you edited out Kobe ;)

I like this list, probably because it's almost identical to mine ;) I thought a lot about Bledsoe but put Holiday in there last second.


Completely forgot about Rubio too.


Faried probably isn't top 5. And actually looking into it, I'm kinda ashamed I listed him :laugh2: Metrics suggest he was pretty average-at-best. Again, I just blanked.

mightybosstone
08-26-2013, 11:52 PM
I see some good lists, but the lack of Omer Asik is disturbing. Show the Turk some love!

tredigs
08-26-2013, 11:59 PM
I wanted to add Asik, but he just misses the cut. I didn't add Chandler either. Both are top 15 defenders though.

Gators123
08-27-2013, 12:05 AM
Anthony Davis blocked shots, but his defense last year was pretty bad IMO.

He does have the potential to be a great defender though. I think he will be much better next season.

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 12:05 AM
Off the top of my head


PG: Conley, Holiday, Paul, Rondo, Westbrook

SG: Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green, Wade

SF: Paul George, Iguodala, LeBron James, Leonard, Sefolosha

PF: Anthony Davis, Duncan, Faried, Garnett, Ibaka

C: Chandler, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Noah, Sanders (added 1)

Bledsoe isn't a better defender than Holiday or Westbrook last year? He was a better defender than his teammate CP3, I can vouch for that as somebody who watched every single game. Faried is a highly mediocre defender.

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 12:09 AM
Off the top of mine:

PG: Conley - Lowry - Bledsoe - Rubio - Bradley

SG: Tony Allen - Sefalosha - Shumpert - K. Thompson - Brewer

SF: Iggy - Lebron - George - Kawhi - KD

PF: Duncan - Ibaka - KG - J Smoove - A Davis

C: M Gasol - Noah - Hibbert - Sanders - Howard

Now this is pretty much a perfect list to me, good job. :clap:. Just a couple small changes I'd make personally. Klay is an improved defender NO QUESTION but top 5 defending SG seems a bit high for now. I'd definitely substitute somebody like Afflalo for Klay. Also KD should be replaced by Shawn Marion IMO. KD is an above average defender now but even at his age Shawn Marion borders on an "elite" defender when he's rested and engaged.

5ass
08-27-2013, 12:11 AM
Conley, Holiday, Bledsoe, Bradley, Rubio
Allen, Ronnie Brewer, Shumpert, Sefolosha, Butler
Bron, George, Iggy, Kawhi, Deng
Ibaka, Duncan, KG, Noah, Smith
Howard, Gasol, Sanders, Hibbert, Chandler

tredigs
08-27-2013, 01:14 AM
Now this is pretty much a perfect list to me, good job. :clap:. Just a couple small changes I'd make personally. Klay is an improved defender NO QUESTION but top 5 defending SG seems a bit high for now. I'd definitely substitute somebody like Afflalo for Klay. Also KD should be replaced by Shawn Marion IMO. KD is an above average defender now but even at his age Shawn Marion borders on an "elite" defender when he's rested and engaged.
I was struggling to think of other SG defenders - Afflalo's a good one. I loved Klay's D to close the year though. Agreed on Marion too, but I guess I think of him as a PF as much a SF. Both are good switches if we consider him a SF (which when Dirk + Kaman were both on the floor he was).

AIMelo=KillaDUO
08-27-2013, 01:16 AM
Iman sh*ts on butler, wade, and green. Iman and afflalo r definitely top 5

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 01:29 AM
I was struggling to think of other SG defenders - Afflalo's a good one. I loved Klay's D to close the year though. Agreed on Marion too, but I guess I think of him as a PF as much a SF. Both are good switches if we consider him a SF (which when Dirk + Kaman were both on the floor he was).

Good points. SG defenders are hard to think of TBH. Marion is often forgotten but even this year when guarding guys like KD/Lebron he does such a damn good job.

OceanSpray
08-27-2013, 08:00 AM
Anthony davis is not top 5. Blocking shots isnt everything in defense.

Minimal
08-27-2013, 08:39 AM
PG - Bledsoe, Paul, Westbrook, Rondo, Conley
SG - Allen, Sefolosha, Butler, Bradley, Wade
SF - James, George, Leonard, Iguodala, Durant
PF - Garnett, Duncan, Smith, Ibaka, Bosh
C - Hibbert, Gasol, Sanders, Howard, Noah

Green_Monster
08-27-2013, 10:04 AM
Great list! Especially off the top of your head. In before Knicks fans get mad about Shumpert not being there.

Well, you called it.


Iman sh*ts on butler, wade, and green. Iman and afflalo r definitely top 5

:laugh2:

AIMelo=KillaDUO
08-27-2013, 10:20 AM
Well, you called it.



:laugh2:

I agreed with the rest of his list. lol But to say Wade, Butler, and Green are elite and not even acknowledge Iman, or AA, seems a little ridiculous to me.

Green_Monster
08-27-2013, 10:25 AM
I agreed with the rest of his list. lol But to say Wade, Butler, and Green are elite and not even acknowledge Iman, or AA, seems a little ridiculous to me.

Iman and AA are right up there, and might be better defenders than Wade, Butler, and Green. (I haven't check the stats out yet). But Iman doesn't **** on them.

Isammm
08-27-2013, 11:31 AM
Sefo instead of Wade, and Deng instead of Sefo. Aside from that, good list!

29$JerZ
08-27-2013, 11:32 AM
PG - Kyle Lowry/Jrue Holliday/Russell Westbrook/Mike Conley/Ricky Rubio
SG - Toney Allen/Paul George/Thabo Seflosha/Jimmy Butler/Danny Green
SF - LeBron James/Luol Deng/Kawaii Leonard/Iggy/AK47
PF - Kevin Garnett/Serge Ibaka/Tim Duncan/Al Horford/Blake Griffin
C - Dwight Howard/Tyson Chandler/Marc Gasol/Joahkim Noah/Roy Hibbert

Monta is beast
08-27-2013, 12:05 PM
Rondo shouldn't be up there

b@llhog24
08-27-2013, 01:36 PM
Iman isn't on Butler's level defensively.

D-Leethal
08-27-2013, 02:16 PM
Iman isn't on Butler's level defensively.

I'm not saying he's better (although I think he is on D), but he is most certainly on his level, and I think he's most certainly top 5 at the SG spot.

I'm surprised the lack of love for Shump after making Pierce look like he forgot how to dribble and holding George to 38% shooting, while being handily undersized for both guys. Also surprised at the love for Avery Bradley after he allowed Felton to look like the second coming of Walt Frazier and post 4 of his 8 best games ALL SEASON within that 6 game span.

tredigs
08-27-2013, 02:52 PM
Jimmy Butler's a shooting guard? That's news to me. He's Deng's backup, no?

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 03:05 PM
Wow people love small samples to make claims. I'm sorry but Iman Shumpert is a FAR more proven and consistent defender than Butler who had his glory moment doing a solid job guarding Lebron. Besides Butler is a SF last I checked, not a SG.. making that debate moot. Put Butler in the top 5 SF defenders if you want but he's not a SG.

Chronz
08-27-2013, 03:20 PM
Jimmy Butler's a shooting guard? That's news to me. He's Deng's backup, no?

Wow people love small samples to make claims. I'm sorry but Iman Shumpert is a FAR more proven and consistent defender than Butler who had his glory moment doing a solid job guarding Lebron. Besides Butler is a SF last I checked, not a SG.. making that debate moot. Put Butler in the top 5 SF defenders if you want but he's not a SG.
Thats kind of arbitrary dont you think?
I mean honestly, when you guys have to quibble between a true swing like Butler being either SG or SF when he clearly can and does defend both spots, makes it seem like you have no real argument behind who you'd rather list. In case you dont believe me:

VS Kobe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPxUErecR4k

Green_Monster
08-27-2013, 03:21 PM
I'm not saying he's better (although I think he is on D), but he is most certainly on his level, and I think he's most certainly top 5 at the SG spot.

I'm surprised the lack of love for Shump after making Pierce look like he forgot how to dribble and holding George to 38% shooting, while being handily undersized for both guys. Also surprised at the love for Avery Bradley after he allowed Felton to look like the second coming of Walt Frazier and post 4 of his 8 best games ALL SEASON within that 6 game span.

Bradley is a better defender than Shumpert. Any non homer will tell you that. If I remember correctly, he is in the top 5 for lowest PPP on defense in the NBA.

Bradley was the one who almost brought the Celtics back in the 4th quarter of game 6 against the Knicks. He made several key steals. You should go back and watch that clip. He also had to play PG almost the whole year. He's better with Rondo at PG and himself at SG.

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 03:42 PM
Thats kind of arbitrary dont you think?
I mean honestly, when you guys have to quibble between a true swing like Butler being either SG or SF when he clearly can and does defend both spots, makes it seem like you have no real argument behind who you'd rather list. In case you dont believe me:

VS Kobe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPxUErecR4k

I didn't say he can't play both. If you want to get technical Iman started at SF a lot so both play multiple positions. Doesn't change the fact that he's primarily a SF. Nonetheless Butler is nice but I hate when people overrate a player based on small samples. They also bash a player the same blind way over one bad playoff series etc.

TimeForAHoliday
08-27-2013, 04:08 PM
Anthony davis is not top 5. Blocking shots isnt everything in defense.:laugh:

AD doesn't only block shots. He has quick hands and was a ''bad'' defender last year because people could abuse his weaker frame. He will become much better once he puts on weight (he said he wants his playing range around 235 this year, he played at around 220 last year)

Goose17
08-27-2013, 04:41 PM
Off the top of mine:

PG: Conley - Lowry - Bledsoe - Rubio - Bradley

SG: Tony Allen - Sefalosha - Shumpert - K. Thompson - Brewer

SF: Iggy - Lebron - George - Kawhi - KD

PF: Duncan - Ibaka - KG - J Smoove - A Davis

C: M Gasol - Noah - Hibbert - Sanders - Howard

This is the closest I've seen to something I would agree with, but I still have a few issues...



Shump > Sefolosha.

Ibaka doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the top 5. He is not a good defender, common misconception because he has those emphatic blocks that are really entertaining and fun to watch. A lack of court awareness, poor rotations and weak help defense are holding him back from being a top 5 defender. He's a top 5 shot blocker though for sure.

CP3 should be on the point guard list.

Lebron > Iggy.

Kawhi > George.

IMHO it's far too soon to have Davis on that list. Sample size is too small.

Lucky.
08-27-2013, 05:00 PM
Keep in mind, these are in no order.

PG: Mike Conley - Jrue Holiday - Eric Bledsoe - Ricky Rubio - Chris Paul

SG: Tony Allen - Avery Bradley - Thabo Sefolosha - Jimmy Butler - Iman Shumpert

SF: LeBron James - Paul George - Kawhi Leonard - Andre Iguodala - Andrei Kirilenko

PF: Tim Duncan - Kevin Garnett - Anthony Davis - Josh Smith - I'll cheat and list Larry Sanders in my PF's

C: Marc Gasol - Dwight Howard - Omer Asik - Joakim Noah - Tyson Chandler

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 05:18 PM
Keep in mind, these are in no order.

PG: Mike Conley - Jrue Holiday - Eric Bledsoe - Ricky Rubio - Chris Paul

SG: Tony Allen - Avery Bradley - Thabo Sefolosha - Jimmy Butler - Iman Shumpert

SF: LeBron James - Paul George - Kawhi Leonard - Andre Iguodala - Andrei Kirilenko

PF: Tim Duncan - Kevin Garnett - Anthony Davis - Josh Smith - I'll cheat and list Larry Sanders in my PF's

C: Marc Gasol - Dwight Howard - Omer Asik - Joakim Noah - Tyson Chandler

Really love this list too, good job. Forgot all about my man AK.

boXerrumble
08-27-2013, 05:23 PM
Wow people love small samples to make claims. I'm sorry but Iman Shumpert is a FAR more proven and consistent defender than Butler who had his glory moment doing a solid job guarding Lebron. Besides Butler is a SF last I checked, not a SG.. making that debate moot. Put Butler in the top 5 SF defenders if you want but he's not a SG.

Far more proven?

What?

You have evidence of this? Butler in the past 2 years has defended Lebron, Wade, Melo, and Durant fairly well whenever hes been on the court.

And he's the starting TWO guard for the Bulls, and can play the 3 and 4 decently (hes top 5 in OREB % for guards)

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 05:35 PM
Far more proven?

What?

You have evidence of this? Butler in the past 2 years has defended Lebron, Wade, Melo, and Durant fairly well whenever hes been on the court.

And he's the starting TWO guard for the Bulls, and can play the 3 and 4 decently (hes top 5 in OREB % for guards)

Butler's first year nobody but Bulls fans cared or knew about him really. I mean the guy played 8.5 minutes a game for Christ's sake. Shumpert played 29 minutes per game as a rookie and established himself as a shutdown defender pretty much from day one. So yes, Shumpert is a hell of a lot more proven to this point as a defender. I'm sick and tired of homers boosting a young player to a pedestal after small samples.

Butler had some games where he guarded stars well but he hasn't been as consistent or played nearly as much as Shumpert. Butler has started just 20 out of 124 games in his career and now you're going to say he was the starting SG? He may be going forward but it would be a first for him because he started zero games his rookie year and 24 percent of his 2nd year games.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

IgglesFanInCO
08-27-2013, 06:29 PM
PG - Chris Paul, Mike Conley, Avery Bradley, Russell Westbrook and Eric Bledsoe
SG - Tony Allen, Thabo Sefolosha, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green and Corey Brewer
SF - LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Luol Deng and Andre Igoudala
PF - Serge Ibaka, Tim Duncan, Larry Sanders, Kevin Garnett and Kenneth Faried
C - Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah and Roy Hibbert

As a nuggets fan who watched every game Corey played last year I will tell you that he is a god awful defender and terribly overrated there, he was honestly one of the worst defenders on that team, i was disgusted constantly watching his D

also Faried is great post defender but needs to become a better perimiter defender before he can be considered top 5

otherwise i like your list for the most part, maybe bledsoe is debatable and idk if Ibaka should be #1 but pretty good

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 06:31 PM
Bledsoe isn't debatable in the slightest. He was quite possibly THE best defensive PG in the NBA last year. Better than Bradley returning from injury, better than his teammate CP3 and definitely better than guys like Westbrook, Conley, Holiday.

TrueFan420
08-27-2013, 06:41 PM
To the Miami homer that put bosh on the list as a top 5 defender at pf... get a grip man.

Chronz
08-27-2013, 06:49 PM
If you want to get technical Iman started at SF a lot so both play multiple positions.
Im the one NOT getting technical, arguing semantics IMO.



Doesn't change the fact that he's primarily a SF.
I want to ask what makes you so confident but again... semantics, I dont care if its a fact, its of no importance when discussing Wing defenders like him. Hes completely flexible on DEFENSE. Offensively it might be more of a challenge but it seems Thibs has the utmost confidence in him as the starting 2 next to Deng.


Nonetheless Butler is nice but I hate when people overrate a player based on small samples.
You did the same with Bledsoe, none of us said anything because we all saw the same thing. Besides, Butler has had strong enough showings. Nice?.....I think you're underrating him.

Chronz
08-27-2013, 06:50 PM
Butler has started just 20 out of 124 games in his career and now you're going to say he was the starting SG? He may be going forward but it would be a first for him because he started zero games his rookie year and 24 percent of his 2nd year games.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

Bledsoe isn't debatable in the slightest. He was quite possibly THE best defensive PG in the NBA last year. Better than Bradley returning from injury, better than his teammate CP3 and definitely better than guys like Westbrook, Conley, Holiday.

How many games has Bledsoe started?

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 06:53 PM
Im the one NOT getting technical, arguing semantics IMO.


I want to ask what makes you so confident but again... semantics, I dont care if its a fact, its of no importance when discussing Wing defenders like him. Hes completely flexible on DEFENSE. Offensively it might be more of a challenge but it seems Thibs has the utmost confidence in him as the starting 2 next to Deng.


You did the same with Bledsoe, none of us said anything because we all saw the same thing. Besides, Butler has had strong enough showings. Nice?.....I think you're underrating him.

I never said I don't act like a homer myself sometimes. Although Bledsoe started a ton his rookie year and played big minutes at stretches throughout 3 years for me to really see how good he was. Butler played his first big minutes last year. You said nobody said anything but I was REGULARLY blasted for being a Bledsoe homer lol. Yes Butler is nice... he's not an all star or anything, a good/solid player... not sure you you view him. Do you think he's a future all star or something? I see him being similar to Luol Deng max upside wise. A very good 3-4 option on offense who can do a bit of everything.

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 06:54 PM
How many games has Bledsoe started?

My Butler starting games point was related directly to him saying he's just as proven as Shumpert, not related to how good he is as a defender. I even agreed he has a case for top 5 defender on the wing.

Kashmir13579
08-27-2013, 07:08 PM
Great list! Especially off the top of your head. In before Knicks fans get mad about Shumpert not being there.

Avery Bradley + Butler - Shumpert = bad list

Green_Monster
08-27-2013, 07:48 PM
Bledsoe isn't debatable in the slightest. He was quite possibly THE best defensive PG in the NBA last year. Better than Bradley returning from injury, better than his teammate CP3 and definitely better than guys like Westbrook, Conley, Holiday.

I'm not saying any of this is wrong, but what stats are you basing it on?

mrblisterdundee
08-27-2013, 07:50 PM
Glad you edited out Kobe ;)

I like this list, probably because it's almost identical to mine ;) I thought a lot about Bledsoe but put Holiday in there last second.


Completely forgot about Rubio too.


Faried probably isn't top 5. And actually looking into it, I'm kinda ashamed I listed him :laugh2: Metrics suggest he was pretty average-at-best. Again, I just blanked.

I took Kobe out, but he did get more votes for the defensive team than a couple of the shooting guards listed. If Kobe wants to, he can be one of the best defenders in the league. He's just that good.
I based my list on the defensive team votes mostly, since the people voting know more about basketball than most of us. It definitely wasn't based on your post.

tredigs
08-27-2013, 07:53 PM
I'm not saying any of this is wrong, but what stats are you basing it on?

His DRAPM is up there for PG's and his #1 role on defense this year was p&r ball handler (per Synergy), which he excelled at. His per-36 steal+block #'s are also pretty ridiculous.

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 07:56 PM
His DRAPM is up there for PG's and his #1 role on defense this year was p&r ball handler (per Synergy), which he excelled at. His per-36 steal+block #'s are also pretty ridiculous.

This. The fact that he's up there with the cream of the crop in terms of man defense but bests ALL NBA guards, let alone PG's when you combine blocks+steals rates/ averages PER 36. Bledsoe ranked number 1 in shotblocking rate among both PG's and SG's and ranked 2nd in steals rate among all guards. To be able to man up similarly to Shumpert/Bradley and the rest but also be able to have about 1.5 blocks, 2.5 steals per 36 is pretty damn insane.

tredigs
08-27-2013, 07:59 PM
I took Kobe out, but he did get more votes for the defensive team than a couple of the shooting guards listed. If Kobe wants to, he can be one of the best defenders in the league. He's just that good.
I based my list on the defensive team votes mostly, since the people voting know more about basketball than most of us. It definitely wasn't based on your post.

For very brief, fleeting moments he can be a top 10 perimeter defender. Can't go much further than that for him. His defensive votes are the running joke of the NBA. Are we also assuming Jeter was the top defensive SS in MLB the past decade due to gold gloves? That's a sport where it's very easy to prove who is the best defensively, and Jeter was not top 10. Yet, still voted in again and again...

I'd recommend challenging the prevailing wisdom. These coaches probably watch Kobe less than most die hard fans. They're focused on their own guys and likely fall victim to the media dialogue like anyone else.

flea
08-27-2013, 09:01 PM
It's quite an understatement to say Jeter is not a top 10 defender. By runs given up, he's the worst defender in the history of the game.

THE MTL
08-27-2013, 09:05 PM
Great list! Especially off the top of your head. In before Knicks fans get mad about Shumpert not being there.

I like how you even noticed Shumpert was missing. So obviously he's in your list too.

THE MTL
08-27-2013, 09:08 PM
Keep in mind, these are in no order.

PG: Mike Conley - Jrue Holiday - Eric Bledsoe - Ricky Rubio - Chris Paul

SG: Tony Allen - Avery Bradley - Thabo Sefolosha - Jimmy Butler - Iman Shumpert

SF: LeBron James - Paul George - Kawhi Leonard - Andre Iguodala - Andrei Kirilenko

PF: Tim Duncan - Kevin Garnett - Anthony Davis - Josh Smith - I'll cheat and list Larry Sanders in my PF's

C: Marc Gasol - Dwight Howard - Omer Asik - Joakim Noah - Tyson Chandler


I'm not considering the order but this is a great list.

Silent
08-27-2013, 09:11 PM
Off the top of my head


PG: Conley, Holiday, Paul, Rondo, Westbrook

SG: Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Danny Green, Wade

SF: Paul George, Iguodala, LeBron James, Leonard, Sefolosha

PF: Anthony Davis, Duncan, Faried, Garnett, Ibaka

C: Chandler, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Noah, Sanders (added 1)

I would add Shump and deng

jerellh528
08-27-2013, 09:24 PM
For very brief, fleeting moments he can be a top 10 perimeter defender. Can't go much further than that for him. His defensive votes are the running joke of the NBA. Are we also assuming Jeter was the top defensive SS in MLB the past decade due to gold gloves? That's a sport where it's very easy to prove who is the best defensively, and Jeter was not top 10. Yet, still voted in again and again...

I'd recommend challenging the prevailing wisdom. These coaches probably watch Kobe less than most die hard fans. They're focused on their own guys and likely fall victim to the media dialogue like anyone else.

when truly devoted he can be the top defender on the floor any given night. The problem is he puts maybe 60-70% into his defense these days.

DoMeFavors
08-27-2013, 10:13 PM
Iman Shumpert is no where near top 5 defense at SG/PG/SF whatever you want to call him. Guy can hardly get on the court.

justinnum1
08-27-2013, 10:17 PM
Great list! Especially off the top of your head. In before Knicks fans get mad about Shumpert not being there.

He doesn't belong there.

meloman1592
08-27-2013, 10:39 PM
He doesn't belong there.

Then neither does wade

meloman1592
08-27-2013, 10:41 PM
Iman Shumpert is no where near top 5 defense at SG/PG/SF whatever you want to call him. Guy can hardly get on the court.

Lmfao

Kashmir13579
08-27-2013, 11:07 PM
If Shump wasn't a Knick, PSD would love the guy, just like Gallo. Shump is a stud.

010957
08-27-2013, 11:09 PM
people bringing up faried has brought me to a funny point. Alot of people see rebounding and blocking shots as defense. Faried can do both of these things really well, but defending is something he needs to work on. Defending one-on-one, imo, should make up 75% of all defensive discussions.


btw i love faried

Clippersfan86
08-27-2013, 11:44 PM
According to Synergy Faried is the 340th ranked defender and pretty much terrible at everything defensively. Even if you go by defensive rating he's an average defender at best. Nuggets articles have come out talking about just how subpar his defense is and I've posted them here. Point is... no clue at all why he's thought of as a good, especially top 5 defender by some. He's a rebounding specialist who plays hard, that's it.

b@llhog24
08-28-2013, 08:31 AM
1) Shump isn't far more proven than Butler. He was always a good at picking people's pockets but I remember him getting torched a decent amount his rookie year.
2) Even if we're using that rationale, that'd mean that Bleddoe isn't "proven" in comparison to a lot of top flight pg defenders.

b@llhog24
08-28-2013, 08:32 AM
And Kendrick is a mediocre to below average defender IMO.

BULLSFAN0810
08-28-2013, 10:12 AM
Lowry.
Butler/Bradley
Gay
Larry sanders
Asik

Kushed
08-28-2013, 10:29 AM
I like the lists already made but surprised not to see Rubio. Extremely underrated defender, his 6'4 frame and long arms allow him to deflect/steal a bunch of passes. He's super crafty on that end of the floor as well. Not someone who is overly gifted from an athletic standpoint but someone who gets the job done with his basketball IQ and solid frame for a PG.

NYJ - NYY
08-28-2013, 11:17 AM
Iman Shumpert is no where near top 5 defense at SG/PG/SF whatever you want to call him. Guy can hardly get on the court.

did you see how he made grandpa pierce look in the playoffs? He was on the court then...



He doesn't belong there.

and the clowns come out and are here to stay... yay


cant wait for the season to start!! lets go knicks!!

Pacerlive
08-28-2013, 11:58 AM
For those of you interested Bleacher Report came out with a list and unique rating system that combines usage and multiple metrics.

Just an fyi he screwed up George HIll and listed him as a sg but later said he would have been number 2 on the pg list and sorry Knick fans Shumpert isn't on the list due to minutes played.

point guard list..

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1734626-ranking-the-best-defensive-point-guards-in-the-nba/page/2#/articles/1734626-ranking-the-best-defensive-point-guards-in-the-nba/page/2

Shooting guard list.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1743493-ranking-the-best-defensive-shooting-guards-in-the-nba

Butler is listed second.

SF list.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1748020-ranking-the-best-defensive-small-forwards-in-the-nba

Paul George is number one.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-28-2013, 12:39 PM
I see some good lists, but the lack of Omer Asik is disturbing. Show the Turk some love!

lol homer alert.

Clippersfan86
08-28-2013, 12:48 PM
1) Shump isn't far more proven than Butler. He was always a good at picking people's pockets but I remember him getting torched a decent amount his rookie year.
2) Even if we're using that rationale, that'd mean that Bleddoe isn't "proven" in comparison to a lot of top flight pg defenders.

Bledsoe is going into his 4th season. We've seen enough of a sample to deem him an elite PG defender, and definitely top 5. Who is Kendrick? You mean Kenneth?

TheIlladelph16
08-28-2013, 01:28 PM
lol homer alert.

I hate it when the pot calls the kettle black.

D-Leethal
08-28-2013, 01:49 PM
people bringing up faried has brought me to a funny point. Alot of people see rebounding and blocking shots as defense. Faried can do both of these things really well, but defending is something he needs to work on. Defending one-on-one, imo, should make up 75% of all defensive discussions.


btw i love faried

People seem to equate hustle players to great defenders. Faried is far from a great defender. I do think he can develop into a great defender who can guard multiple positions though. I think a guy like Kenyon Martin would be a perfect mentor for him.

D-Leethal
08-28-2013, 01:55 PM
Bradley is a better defender than Shumpert. Any non homer will tell you that. If I remember correctly, he is in the top 5 for lowest PPP on defense in the NBA.

Bradley was the one who almost brought the Celtics back in the 4th quarter of game 6 against the Knicks. He made several key steals. You should go back and watch that clip. He also had to play PG almost the whole year. He's better with Rondo at PG and himself at SG.

I think Bradley is a great defender and he would make my list, just saying its surprising to see one guy so coveted after getting torched by an average PG multiple times in one playoff series and the other not even mentioned after playing GREAT defense against two GREAT players during his playoff run. Felton literally had 4 of his best 8 games all season against Bradley in that playoff series and was doing whatever he wanted against him, whenever he wanted to do it.

I don't put too much weight in that miracle comeback. Knicks were up 27 with under 5 mins left. They stopped playing and Bradley was still hounding them. They were basically trying to run out the clock at that point.

I'll take the 6 games of Shump making Paul Pierce look like a school girl who couldn't even dribble over the 4 minutes Bradley went on a stealing rampage in a game that was already over. If you want to cry about Bradley covering PGs than I will do the same about Shumpert guarding SFs.

Green_Monster
08-28-2013, 02:29 PM
I think Bradley is a great defender and he would make my list, just saying its surprising to see one guy so coveted after getting torched by an average PG multiple times in one playoff series and the other not even mentioned after playing GREAT defense against two GREAT players during his playoff run. Felton literally had 4 of his best 8 games all season against Bradley in that playoff series and was doing whatever he wanted against him, whenever he wanted to do it.

Felton was very inefficient during the playoffs. Raymond can score 20+ points for all I care. If he's doing it on bad efficiency, then let him keep chucking.

Who did Iman play defense on that's great? Because all I heard from Knicks fans was that Pierce was washed up and too old. Or does that change now sense we're talking about the amazing Iman Shumpert?


I don't put too much weight in that miracle comeback. Knicks were up 27 with under 5 mins left. They stopped playing and Bradley was still hounding them. They were basically trying to run out the clock at that point.

Actually, there was about 10 minutes left. They certainly didn't stop playing, they had most of their starters in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25WBfFZu83A (20-0 run.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUoehUdlMx8 (2:00 minute mark, after the 20-0 run.)


I'll take the 6 games of Shump making Paul Pierce look like a school girl who couldn't even dribble over the 4 minutes Bradley went on a stealing rampage in a game that was already over. If you want to cry about Bradley covering PGs than I will do the same about Shumpert guarding SFs.

I thought Paul Pierce was great?

You're not very good with time, are you? It was more than four minutes. Also, how was the game over? The Celtics brought the game within 4 points with over 3 minutes left. I think you should watch the clips above.

You either trolled hard in that post, or have no idea what you're talking about.

D-Leethal
08-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Felton was very inefficient during the playoffs. Raymond can score 20+ points for all I care. If he's doing it on bad efficiency, then let him keep chucking.

Who did Iman play defense on that's great? Because all I heard from Knicks fans was that Pierce was washed up and too old. Or does that change now sense we're talking about the amazing Iman Shumpert?



Actually, there was about 10 minutes left. They certainly didn't stop playing, they had most of their starters in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25WBfFZu83A (20-0 run.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUoehUdlMx8 (2:00 minute mark, after the 20-0 run.)



I thought Paul Pierce was great?

You're not very good with time, are you? It was more than four minutes. Also, how was the game over? The Celtics brought the game within 4 points with over 3 minutes left. I think you should watch the clips above.

You either trolled hard in that post, or have no idea what you're talking about.

My mistake. I didn't go back and watch. My memory must have served me incorrect as to when the miracle comeback took place.

If were talking about playoff performances in that series, I will still takes Shump's ownage of Pierce over Bradleys 10 minutes of fame after getting iced by Ray Felton almost every game.

BTW, I think Bradley might be slightly better defender than Shump at this point, mostly due to Shump's injury and underwhelming half a season before he came back to life in the playoffs. But if Bradley, Jimmy B. are getting mentioned, Shumpert most certainly deserves mention.

My post was just that I found it ironic one of the best young defenders in the game is getting mentioned by everyone after he played awful defense and got torched by a Ray Felton, and another one of the best young defenders in the game had his coming out party in the playoffs and played stellar D against guys like Pierce and Paul George with no mention. I wasn't saying one was better than the other (I said I think Shump's D is better than Jimmy Butler). Just saying it is funny, thats all. Expected around these parts, but funny nonetheless.

D-Leethal
08-28-2013, 02:36 PM
And I have nothing but respect for Paul Pierce. Anything I have posted about him with regards to the Nets is about his inability to cover anyone anymore with his slug-like lateral speed, and the fact that I see him and Joe Johnson at this point as very redundant and don't really compliment each other at all. I think Nets are going to need defense, hustle, intangible, glue-guy type play out of one of those guys and I don't think either one can provide it. Both are natural born scorers and the Nets only need one of them to bring that to the table while the other transforms into a defense-first player.

Green_Monster
08-28-2013, 02:53 PM
If were talking about playoff performances in that series, I will still takes Shump's ownage of Pierce over Bradleys 10 minutes of fame after getting iced by Ray Felton almost every game.

I need to know, is Pierce great or washed up? You can't have it both ways.


BTW, I think Bradley might be slightly better defender than Shump at this point, mostly due to Shump's injury and underwhelming half a season before he came back to life in the playoffs. But if Bradley, Jimmy B. are getting mentioned, Shumpert most certainly deserves mention.

Bradley came off of an injury also. Shumpert should have been mentioned, I agree with that. Tony Allen, Bradley, Butler, Shumpert and Sefolosha are my top 5 defenders at SG, in no order.


My post was just that I found it ironic one of the best young defenders in the game is getting mentioned by everyone after he played awful defense and got torched by a Ray Felton, and another one of the best young defenders in the game had his coming out party in the playoffs and played stellar D against guys like Pierce and Paul George with no mention. I wasn't saying one was better than the other. Just funny, thats all. Expected around these parts, but funny nonetheless.

Fair enough. But again, Felton was very inefficient in the playoffs. Off topic, but there have been some reports that Bradley has put on a good amount of muscle this offseason.

4milesperday
08-28-2013, 04:18 PM
PG: Cp3
SG: Wade
SF: Bron
PF: Duncan
C: Howard

D-Leethal
08-29-2013, 12:53 PM
If were talking about playoff performances in that series, I will still takes Shump's ownage of Pierce over Bradleys 10 minutes of fame after getting iced by Ray Felton almost every game.

I need to know, is Pierce great or washed up? You can't have it both ways.


BTW, I think Bradley might be slightly better defender than Shump at this point, mostly due to Shump's injury and underwhelming half a season before he came back to life in the playoffs. But if Bradley, Jimmy B. are getting mentioned, Shumpert most certainly deserves mention.

Bradley came off of an injury also. Shumpert should have been mentioned, I agree with that. Tony Allen, Bradley, Butler, Shumpert and Sefolosha are my top 5 defenders at SG, in no order.


My post was just that I found it ironic one of the best young defenders in the game is getting mentioned by everyone after he played awful defense and got torched by a Ray Felton, and another one of the best young defenders in the game had his coming out party in the playoffs and played stellar D against guys like Pierce and Paul George with no mention. I wasn't saying one was better than the other. Just funny, thats all. Expected around these parts, but funny nonetheless.

Fair enough. But again, Felton was very inefficient in the playoffs. Off topic, but there have been some reports that Bradley has put on a good amount of muscle this offseason.

I think Pierce is still a damn good offensive player who was made to look like he wasn't even comfortable dribbling the ball let alone making a move and putting it in the basket. I think Pierce is slow as molasses and can't stay in front of his own shadow layerally anymore. I think you can be slow as molasses and still be a very good offensivle player ala Dirk Nowitzki. I dont think you can be slow as molasses and defend NBA 2s and 3s. Pierces defense should have no bearing in this convo because were talking about Shumps defense on Pierce.

Therefore, in my book Pierce is still a good to great player with regards to this discussion. IMO, Nets need him to defend, hustle and be efficient on very limited touches more than they need him to be a go to scorer, therefore I don't see him making a major positive impact on the Nets. So you mighy be using the word 'washed up' where I would use 'bad fit'.

That clear it up enough for ya or you still confused?

Eagles4Lyfe
08-29-2013, 02:23 PM
Kawhi :drool:

Green_Monster
08-29-2013, 02:27 PM
I think Bradley is a great defender and he would make my list, just saying its surprising to see one guy so coveted after getting torched by an average PG multiple times in one playoff series and the other not even mentioned after playing GREAT defense against two GREAT players during his playoff run.

I'll take the 6 games of Shump making Paul Pierce look like a school girl who couldn't even dribble over the 4 minutes Bradley went on a stealing rampage in a game that was already over.


I think Pierce is still a damn good offensive player who was made to look like he wasn't even comfortable dribbling the ball let alone making a move and putting it in the basket. I think Pierce is slow as molasses and can't stay in front of his own shadow layerally anymore. I think you can be slow as molasses and still be a very good offensivle player ala Dirk Nowitzki. I dont think you can be slow as molasses and defend NBA 2s and 3s. Pierces defense should have no bearing in this convo because were talking about Shumps defense on Pierce.

Therefore, in my book Pierce is still a good to great player with regards to this discussion. IMO, Nets need him to defend, hustle and be efficient on very limited touches more than they need him to be a go to scorer, therefore I don't see him making a major positive impact on the Nets. So you mighy be using the word 'washed up' where I would use 'bad fit'.

That clear it up enough for ya or you still confused?

How can you call him great, and then call him "a little school girl who can't dribble". Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Try again.

OceanSpray
08-29-2013, 02:59 PM
:laugh:

AD doesn't only block shots. He has quick hands and was a ''bad'' defender last year because people could abuse his weaker frame. He will become much better once he puts on weight (he said he wants his playing range around 235 this year, he played at around 220 last year)

I can name 5 defenders better at that position. He's not top 5. Give him more years and playing time.