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Alleyeson49
08-22-2013, 04:36 AM
The list is as follows: 1) Michael Jordan, 2) Julius Erving (Dr. J.), and 3) Larry Bird are his top 3 players of all-time (albeit he admits it was extremely difficult to narrow it down to just 3 when this question was posed to him) *Note: He mentions Michael Jordan THREE times before he gets to the next 2 LOL. So technically, this is Lebron James' top 5 players of all-time ;)*

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/lebron-james-names-top-three-basketball-players-time-172622319.html

stawka
08-22-2013, 04:47 AM
Hard to leave Magic and Kareem out, but at least we can all agree on MJ lol

Alleyeson49
08-22-2013, 04:55 AM
Hard to leave Magic and Kareem out, but at least we can all agree on MJ lol

Exactly, I loved his answer in that regard lol. Jordan was the all-time greatest in my eyes because of how he dominated the game from the SG position. If you really think about it, it's a very difficult question. You just can't win. There are so many elite players, and to narrow it to just a few is impossible. Even a top 5 may be difficult. I think a top 10 would be the fairest. Then again, you get to see what one of the greatest players of today thinks was the very tiptop in history. It was actually an interesting, very easy to debate list. That's what makes valid, logical opinions great. We can all differ, but we can still respect the other sides taste and see the merit in their selections.

stawka
08-22-2013, 05:24 AM
I think the top 12 is a given, it's just a preference of order

My top 3 would be different to many others - hell even my top 5 would get laughed at by many.

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 06:01 AM
I understand MJ and maybe Dr.J, but Bird does not belong there. Bird only had a few really great years, 6-8. He had some years where he wasn't really spectacular. He simply didn't do enough. Not to mention he had Parish and McHale, both who dominated. He had a really stacked team for the most part. Not to mention the LAL was the only competition.

ChiSox219
08-22-2013, 06:28 AM
I would take Lebron top 3 over Bird and Erving, but obviously Lebron can't include himself because fans will start burning jerseys and ****.

BHF
08-22-2013, 06:37 AM
where does Shaq rank? Would you really take LBJ over Shaq at this time?

PhillyFaninLA
08-22-2013, 07:48 AM
where does Shaq rank? Would you really take LBJ over Shaq at this time?

yes, Matt Geiger slowed up Shaq, if Shaq played against guys with some mass he would have been slowed up, still great but not epic

Bostonjorge
08-22-2013, 10:51 AM
I understand MJ and maybe Dr.J, but Bird does not belong there. Bird only had a few really great years, 6-8. He had some years where he wasn't really spectacular. He simply didn't do enough. Not to mention he had Parish and McHale, both who dominated. He had a really stacked team for the most part. Not to mention the LAL was the only competition.

Celtic team was stacked but LA was also stacked and Detroit with some other good teams. The gap of talent the C's had compared to rest of the league was not as big as Miami has it now. Bird is a better winner then Lebron and Lebron list are all players who led there team to a ring. Lebron didn't have to lead Miami they were going to win anyway since Jennings, Nate Robinson, or hibbert were not going to beat a bosh led team with wade and lebron as his running mates and solid proven role players.

Heatcheck
08-22-2013, 11:33 AM
Celtic team was stacked but LA was also stacked and Detroit with some other good teams. The gap of talent the C's had compared to rest of the league was not as big as Miami has it now. Bird is a better winner then Lebron and Lebron list are all players who led there team to a ring. Lebron didn't have to lead Miami they were going to win anyway since Jennings, Nate Robinson, or hibbert were not going to beat a bosh led team with wade and lebron as his running mates and solid proven role players.

i disagree it was just as big, if not bigger, it was the Celts and the Lakers every year, head and shoulders above everyone else. the pistons were good for like three years, the sixers had some years and even the bucks were a 50+ win team (because the played in a crap *** division), but the gap was much bigger, the wntire league was riddled with 40 win teams, and the the Lakers and Celtics winning 60+ almost every year.

LAKERMANIA
08-22-2013, 11:35 AM
MJ Kareem and Magic for me

Bostonjorge
08-22-2013, 12:07 PM
i disagree it was just as big, if not bigger, it was the Celts and the Lakers every year, head and shoulders above everyone else. the pistons were good for like three years, the sixers had some years and even the bucks were a 50+ win team (because the played in a crap *** division), but the gap was much bigger, the wntire league was riddled with 40 win teams, and the the Lakers and Celtics winning 60+ almost every year.

Once the playoffs rolled around there were some good teams and great talent to face. Bird had to play championship team in sixers and great talent like dominique and a strong team in Detroit who would eventually win back to back. That was the east alone. That is more then anything Miami had to face. Every series this year in the east Miami had the 3 best players on the court every series. It's just lebron can't lead a team in the playoffs so the heat seemed to be on a even playing field somehow to Jennings or Nate Robison led teams. We know the playing field was far from fair and when has lebron won anything with a even playing feild.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-22-2013, 12:25 PM
where does Shaq rank? Would you really take LBJ over Shaq at this time?

Not even close, Lebron is becoming the most overrated superstar in the history of sports.

Ebbs
08-22-2013, 12:25 PM
MJ, Wilt, Shaq I think

Heatcheck
08-22-2013, 12:42 PM
Once the playoffs rolled around there were some good teams and great talent to face. Bird had to play championship team in sixers and great talent like dominique and a strong team in Detroit who would eventually win back to back. That was the east alone. That is more then anything Miami had to face. Every series this year in the east Miami had the 3 best players on the court every series. It's just lebron can't lead a team in the playoffs so the heat seemed to be on a even playing field somehow to Jennings or Nate Robison led teams. We know the playing field was far from fair and when has lebron won anything with a even playing feild.

i can agree with that to a point. the east was a little stronger in general, but the gap between boston and everyone else was HUGE. nobody was ****ing with the celtics in the 80s (except the sixers a couple years), i still remember those days, just like during the Lakers run in the early 2000s, technically, other teams had a chance, but you knew it wasnt going to be enough. or even the last two, you knew if it wasnt the Celtics, it would be the lakers. Miami definitely did not have the best three players on the court, on reputation or performance. and i dont know how leading bunch of players who would be 6th or 7th men on most finals teams to the ECFs and the finals would be considered "cant lead a team in the playoffs" or how it seemed like a level playing field when you lose a game in the first 2 rounds, and win the first without wade.

Heatcheck
08-22-2013, 12:42 PM
Not even close, Lebron is becoming the most overrated superstar in the history of sports.

Based off?

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 12:45 PM
If you ask every player in the game their top 3, you will get 100 different answers. Hence why many like myself are hesitant to just take a players word as gospel and try and use it to justify an opinion...

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 12:57 PM
Celtic team was stacked but LA was also stacked and Detroit with some other good teams. The gap of talent the C's had compared to rest of the league was not as big as Miami has it now. Bird is a better winner then Lebron and Lebron list are all players who led there team to a ring. Lebron didn't have to lead Miami they were going to win anyway since Jennings, Nate Robinson, or hibbert were not going to beat a bosh led team with wade and lebron as his running mates and solid proven role players.

Wtf are you talking about? "Were not going to beat a Bosh led team with Wade and LeBron as his running mates"? Are you a troll? Pacers took them to 7 games, how does that even make sense. Bird isn't a better winner. He just had better teammates for his entire career. Bird had a really short career and had seasons where he wasn't really "dominating". Had he had a longer career, he'd be in it.. Other than that, I can't put him over Kareem, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Hakeem, or even Magic.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-22-2013, 12:58 PM
Based off?

Everyone on here and a select few that want to claim him a top 5 player already.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-22-2013, 12:58 PM
If you ask every player in the game their top 3, you will get 100 different answers. Hence why many like myself are hesitant to just take a players word as gospel and try and use it to justify an opinion...

True, but is it not the same when you claim Lebron to have passed Kobe for a top 7 all time spot?

ATX
08-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Not even close, Lebron is becoming the most overrated superstar in the history of sports.

:violin:

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 01:05 PM
True, but is it not the same when you claim Lebron to have passed Kobe for a top 7 all time spot?

What I mean is, when making a claim, or wanting to debate, you use as much evidence as you wish/can to support your opinion.

I simply don't trust every players opinion, which is why it's laughable when people use those opinions to back up their claims, instead of trying to back them up themselves.

You don't need to have played in the NBA to understand it at a high level. Higher than many of the players in some aspects.

And yes, you can take my, or anyones opinion how you like.

JoeBlessU
08-22-2013, 01:18 PM
Lebron is not only a top 3 defender of all time, Hes easily the best Defender in any sport in any time period..ever. Hes also the greatest offensive player in any sport in any time era. Overall, Hes just the greatest human being of all time, hands down...

I figure if we tell the Lebronoholics what they want to hear, they will stop making these dumb *** threads to discuss his greatness. We get it, hes good at basketball, hes also likely the biggest tool bag in the nba..

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-22-2013, 01:36 PM
What I mean is, when making a claim, or wanting to debate, you use as much evidence as you wish/can to support your opinion.

I simply don't trust every players opinion, which is why it's laughable when people use those opinions to back up their claims, instead of trying to back them up themselves.

You don't need to have played in the NBA to understand it at a high level. Higher than many of the players in some aspects.

And yes, you can take my, or anyones opinion how you like.

:up: Got ya

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-22-2013, 01:38 PM
Lebron is not only a top 3 defender of all time, Hes easily the best Defender in any sport in any time period..ever. Hes also the greatest offensive player in any sport in any time era. Overall, Hes just the greatest human being of all time, hands down...

I figure if we tell the Lebronoholics what they want to hear, they will stop making these dumb *** threads to discuss his greatness. We get it, hes good at basketball, hes also likely the biggest tool bag in the nba..

Lol

Is your sig true? Wow Lebron is a punk.

JoeBlessU
08-22-2013, 01:39 PM
Lol

Is your sig true? Wow Lebron is a punk.

Oh its true. Wait til you see the excuses Lebronoholics will give you as to why it happened.. its pretty hilarious

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 01:40 PM
Oh its true. Wait til you see the excuses Lebronoholics will give you as to why it happened.. its pretty hilarious

and Ray Ray has that opportunity without Bron dragging the Heat back in the game late?

Nope.

Did you even watch that series, I thought you hated basketball..

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-22-2013, 01:43 PM
and Ray Ray has that opportunity without Bron dragging the Heat back in the game late?

Nope.

Did you even watch that series, I thought you hated basketball..

Lebron almost choked the game away in the finals minutes though. He also had a chance to tie the game but missed. It took the greatest shot of all time to save Lebron from a 1-3 finals record and another pedestrian finals.

ManRam
08-22-2013, 01:43 PM
Dr. J? :laugh2:

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-22-2013, 01:44 PM
Oh its true. Wait til you see the excuses Lebronoholics will give you as to why it happened.. its pretty hilarious

That's unbelievable. Talk about being full of yourself. How does he not say anything about his team?

JoeBlessU
08-22-2013, 01:49 PM
and Ray Ray has that opportunity without Bron dragging the Heat back in the game late?

Nope.

Did you even watch that series, I thought you hated basketball..


Does Lebron get to have a postgame championship interview if Ray doesnt hit that shot?.. Funny he never mentioned his name or gave him credit for helping forcing a game 7. Just I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I.. Watched every game of the series..I dont like basketball, mainly because of the dramatic flops and narcisstic tools like lebron.

JoeBlessU
08-22-2013, 01:50 PM
That's unbelievable. Talk about being full of yourself. How does he not say anything about his team?

Because its not about the team to him...Its all about Lebron, always has been, always will be.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 01:50 PM
[/B]


Does Lebron get to have a postgame championship interview if Ray doesnt hit that shot?.. Funny he never mentioned his name or gave him credit for helping forcing a game 7. Just I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I.. Watched every game of the series..I dont like basketball, mainly because of the dramatic flops and narcisstic tools like lebron.

I read your ridiculous logic for this in another thread. No need to re-hash it.

JoeBlessU
08-22-2013, 01:55 PM
I read your ridiculous logic for this in another thread. No need to re-hash it.

Ridiculous logic? you guys blamed the media for that happening. Just because you love lebron doesnt mean you need to come up with silly excuses defending his narcissism.

NYKnickFanatic
08-22-2013, 02:13 PM
Lebron is not only a top 3 defender of all time, Hes easily the best Defender in any sport in any time period..ever. Hes also the greatest offensive player in any sport in any time era. Overall, Hes just the greatest human being of all time, hands down...

I figure if we tell the Lebronoholics what they want to hear, they will stop making these dumb *** threads to discuss his greatness. We get it, hes good at basketball, hes also likely the biggest tool bag in the nba..

I actually thought you were serious, until I saw the second part. Haha

jammastershake
08-22-2013, 02:17 PM
I. Do. Not. Care. About. What. Lebron. Thinks.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 02:20 PM
I. Do. Not. Care. About. What. Lebron. Thinks.

honestly, this. I could personally give two ***** what an athlete thinks when ranking the players of his sport. Most are so biased, it's not even funny. Some of them, after they retire, are able to sit back and see the bigger picture. But for the most part, I really don't care what a player thinks.

Bruno
08-22-2013, 02:31 PM
interesting to see him overrate Bird and especially Dr. J and ignore every big man who's ever laced them up. this sounds more like a "top three favorite" players of all time list to me.

YankeesR#2
08-22-2013, 02:37 PM
Anyone who does not include Bill Russell in a top three list of greatest players of all time is a moron. In fact I would go so far as to say there are only two gretaest basketball players of all time, Bill Russell and Michael Jorden. Whoever you want to put third is a lot closer to the tenth best player than he is to either of those two.

Bostonjorge
08-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Wtf are you talking about? "Were not going to beat a Bosh led team with Wade and LeBron as his running mates"? Are you a troll? Pacers took them to 7 games, how does that even make sense. Bird isn't a better winner. He just had better teammates for his entire career. Bird had a really short career and had seasons where he wasn't really "dominating". Had he had a longer career, he'd be in it.. Other than that, I can't put him over Kareem, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Hakeem, or even Magic.

The heat don't need to be led with that much talent. James is terrible in the playoffs when his team don't have every single advantage and somehow has trouble. If Indiana won it would of been one of the biggest upsets no matter how much Indiana was balling.

Also I take bird over James all day.

LBJackpot
08-22-2013, 02:43 PM
I read your ridiculous logic for this in another thread. No need to re-hash it.

His logic is ridiculous and its not even true lol. I was curious so I found the video of LeBron's game 7 postgame interview (would post it but im on my ipad) and just listened to the first question and answer.

First thing that he says is "Man this team is amazing"

Then says "through everything WE'VE been through WE'VE been able to persevere.

Then talks about how great the organization as a whole. That was all in the first question haha so that was all I needed to listen to.

Sounds like Joeblessu has a severe case of butthurt or he just doesnt know how to count

abe_froman
08-22-2013, 02:43 PM
Dr. J? :laugh2:
dr.j over about 5-10 guys is kind of ridiculous,but i can see why he would name him-very dominant sf(much like himself),huge cultural impact

JoeBlessU
08-22-2013, 02:53 PM
His logic is ridiculous and its not even true lol. I was curious so I found the video of LeBron's game 7 postgame interview (would post it but im on my ipad) and just listened to the first question and answer.

First thing that he says is "Man this team is amazing"

Then says "through everything WE'VE been through WE'VE been able to persevere.

Or..

Then talks about how great the organization as a whole. That was all in the first question haha so that was all I needed to listen to.

Sounds like Joeblessu has a severe case of butthurt or he just doesnt know how to count

Or....You watched the wrong interview genius. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCC5S9jX5Wk

Heatcheck
08-22-2013, 02:57 PM
Because its not about the team to him...Its all about Lebron, always has been, always will be.

your both ridiculous. all the man does is talk about the team and we, you picked out an interview out of thousands and point to it as evidence. go back to watching the wwf.

Heatcheck
08-22-2013, 02:59 PM
The heat don't need to be led with that much talent. James is terrible in the playoffs when his team don't have every single advantage and somehow has trouble. If Indiana won it would of been one of the biggest upsets no matter how much Indiana was balling.

Also I take bird over James all day.

He's terrible. like when he dropped 25 on a pistons team full of allstars. or took Mo williams and a 35 yr old ilgauskas to the ecfs. without every single advantage, like say size in the paint, miami would have never beat indiana.

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 02:59 PM
The heat don't need to be led with that much talent. James is terrible in the playoffs when his team don't have every single advantage and somehow has trouble. If Indiana won it would of been one of the biggest upsets no matter how much Indiana was balling.

Also I take bird over James all day.

Okay, you're right. That's why James is an NBA champion this year, because he's terrible.

JoeBlessU
08-22-2013, 03:01 PM
your both ridiculous. all the man does is talk about the team and we, you picked out an interview out of thousands and point to it as evidence. go back to watching the wwf.

Funny you say that..As the NBA has been criticized as being the closest professional sport to wwf wrestling considering the outcomes are predetermined and draft is rigged for popularity purposes

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 03:02 PM
[/B]


Does Lebron get to have a postgame championship interview if Ray doesnt hit that shot?.. Funny he never mentioned his name or gave him credit for helping forcing a game 7. Just I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I.. Watched every game of the series..I dont like basketball, mainly because of the dramatic flops and narcisstic tools like lebron.

Does Jordan win if Kerr doesn't hit that shot? Does Kobe and Shaq have those rings if Horry/Fisher didn't save them? C'mon, Ray Allen is a part of the team. He's known to hit big time shots when it matters. Stop acting like Ray Allen was just a bystander. He's the greatest three point shooter and he made a shot that he has made countless times. I love how you guys always make this out to be LeBron vs everyone and LeBron can't have a team. Jordan didn't have a team until he got Pippen, look how far that got him. Look at Kobe and how he literally was crying for a trade when Shaq left. Look at Barkley spending his career carrying a team against stacked teams like Jordan's Bulls.

el hidalgo
08-22-2013, 03:03 PM
looks like the dirt bags have crawled out of the dumpster

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Funny you say that..As the NBA has been criticized as being the closest professional sport to wwf wrestling considering the outcomes are predetermined and draft is rigged for popularity purposes

Then don't watch. No one glued your eyes to the television screen.

Heatcheck
08-22-2013, 03:15 PM
Funny you say that..As the NBA has been criticized as being the closest professional sport to wwf wrestling considering the outcomes are predetermined and draft is rigged for popularity purposes


thats a nice way to put it....more like every clown whos team doesnt do as well as they expected, in EVERY league, *****es about how the commissioner hates his team or loves the other.

Bostonjorge
08-22-2013, 03:44 PM
Does Jordan win if Kerr doesn't hit that shot? Does Kobe and Shaq have those rings if Horry/Fisher didn't save them? C'mon, Ray Allen is a part of the team. He's known to hit big time shots when it matters. Stop acting like Ray Allen was just a bystander. He's the greatest three point shooter and he made a shot that he has made countless times. I love how you guys always make this out to be LeBron vs everyone and LeBron can't have a team. Jordan didn't have a team until he got Pippen, look how far that got him. Look at Kobe and how he literally was crying for a trade when Shaq left. Look at Barkley spending his career carrying a team against stacked teams like Jordan's Bulls.

Kerr didn't save the bulls and horry or fisher never made a series elimination shot. They all made big shots but when the last game or elimination game was in the balance then Jordan and kobe stepped up and won those games. Ray bailed lebron out in a elimination game where lebron was the one who put then in a bad situation during crunch time. Barkley could of joined lets say the heat and team up with Jordan and shaq but he choose to win like the greats before him who people said that were better then him. Barkley dared to be the best and at least gave it his all unlike Lebron the coward taking the easiest road to a title ever.

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 03:48 PM
Kerr didn't save the bulls and horry or fisher never made a series elimination shot. They all made big shots but when the last game or elimination game was in the balance then Jordan and kobe stepped up and won those games. Ray bailed lebron out in a elimination game where lebron was the one who put then in a bad situation during crunch time. Barkley could of joined lets say the heat and team up with Jordan and shaq but he choose to win like the greats before him who people said that were better then him. Barkley dared to be the best and at least gave it his all unlike Lebron the coward taking the easiest road to a title ever.

Does it matter if it was a game winning shot? Fact is Kobe and Jordan both got saved in their careers. Basketball is a team game and Ray Allen hit a three, stop acting like it should've been James to make that three. James set the standards so high that you haters expect him to do every damn thing without a drop of help. Must I remind you, Jordan was 1-10 in the playoffs without Pippen. Your boy Jordan couldn't even win two games? James made it to the NBA finals, my friend. And what the hell do you mean easiest road to a title ever? He lost to the Mavs, didn't he? Remember when Boston was up 3/2? Bet you guys were ready to log in PSD and trash talk LeBron too, huh? What about Pacers game 7 and Spurs game 6-7? Bet you guys were all ready to unload your hatred. Well, what happened? Nothing to say now so you blame his teammates for helping him win. Yup, great logic. There's a reason they signed Ray Allen, remember that.

Bostonjorge
08-22-2013, 04:11 PM
Does it matter if it was a game winning shot? Fact is Kobe and Jordan both got saved in their careers. Basketball is a team game and Ray Allen hit a three, stop acting like it should've been James to make that three. James set the standards so high that you haters expect him to do every damn thing without a drop of help. Must I remind you, Jordan was 1-10 in the playoffs without Pippen. Your boy Jordan couldn't even win two games? James made it to the NBA finals, my friend. And what the hell do you mean easiest road to a title ever? He lost to the Mavs, didn't he? Remember when Boston was up 3/2? Bet you guys were ready to log in PSD and trash talk LeBron too, huh? What about Pacers game 7 and Spurs game 6-7? Bet you guys were all ready to unload your hatred. Well, what happened? Nothing to say now so you blame his teammates for helping him win. Yup, great logic. There's a reason they signed Ray Allen, remember that.

Teaming up with 2 great players in there prime is the easiest road to a title. Durant Paul rose can team up with 2 great players and they would win. Any top 50 player can win with this formula.

If Miami build there team with bosh as the number one option and wade as 2 and James at 3 and played this way the whole season then heat win a tile. Lebron would still have his stats just not the points and the heat wouldn't be a better team but still better then every other team.

the avenger
08-22-2013, 04:13 PM
I understand MJ and maybe Dr.J, but Bird does not belong there. Bird only had a few really great years, 6-8. He had some years where he wasn't really spectacular. He simply didn't do enough. Not to mention he had Parish and McHale, both who dominated. He had a really stacked team for the most part. Not to mention the LAL was the only competition. Seriously??? Bird was like James but more intelligent

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 04:19 PM
Seriously??? Bird was like James but more intelligent

Lol? So Bird was as athletic as James? Haha. Bird's career was rather short and doesn't compare to the likes of a Kareem or Shaq. The dude simply didn't play long enough and when he was in his prime, it was a short 6-8 years. he wasn't really great his entire career. Not to mention he had some of the greatest players in Parish/McHale. Sorry, but you have to look at the totality of things and Bird was simply not as established as other NBA players.

mjm07
08-22-2013, 04:22 PM
The list is as follows: 1) Michael Jordan, 2) Julius Erving (Dr. J.), and 3) Larry Bird are his top 3 players of all-time (albeit he admits it was extremely difficult to narrow it down to just 3 when this question was posed to him) *Note: He mentions Michael Jordan THREE times before he gets to the next 2 LOL. So technically, this is Lebron James' top 5 players of all-time ;)*

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/lebron-james-names-top-three-basketball-players-time-172622319.html

Reply from Magic:

Johnson first posted, "Lebron is entitled to his opinion, but I still think that he and I have a similar game and that's why I LOVE to watch him play!"

That quickly was followed by, "NBA Championship rings are all that matter; Jordan 6, Me 5, Bird 3, LeBron 2 and Dr. J 1."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-magic-johnson-s082213,0,4097831.story


#hiswordsnotmine

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 04:26 PM
Teaming up with 2 great players in there prime is the easiest road to a title. Durant Paul rose can team up with 2 great players and they would win. Any top 50 player can win with this formula.

If Miami build there team with bosh as the number one option and wade as 2 and James at 3 and played this way the whole season then heat win a tile. Lebron would still have his stats just not the points and the heat wouldn't be a better team but still better then every other team.

Wtf are you talking about? Bosh isn't even a top 50 player and Wade the past two years wouldn't be a top two player considering his health. You're just a hater. I'm done discussing with someone who thinks Wade+Bosh>Pippen+Rodman. It doesn't matter who James teamed with. Wade+Bosh aren't better than Shaq nor are they better than Pippen+Rodman. And did you just say Miami should build Bosh as a first option? You clearly don't understand basketball. Bosh isn't there to score. He will get his points but Bosh spreads the floor better than anyone else asides from maybe Dirk. Whatever, pointless debating with someone who thinks it's not okay for someone to get help from teammates.

the avenger
08-22-2013, 04:27 PM
Lol? So Bird was as athletic as James? Haha. Bird's career was rather short and doesn't compare to the likes of a Kareem or Shaq. The dude simply didn't play long enough and when he was in his prime, it was a short 6-8 years. he wasn't really great his entire career. Not to mention he had some of the greatest players in Parish/McHale. Sorry, but you have to look at the totality of things and Bird was simply not as established as other NBA players. I never said he was as athletic as James is, but he also did it all on the court: scoring, rebounding, passing, shooting, defending,... I agree on th efact Birds' career was too short, but the man was a basketball genius. The fact he played with Parish and McHale is irrelevant

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 04:32 PM
I never said he was as athletic as James is, but he also did it all on the court: scoring, rebounding, passing, shooting, defending,... I agree on th efact Birds' career was too short, but the man was a basketball genius. The fact he played with Parish and McHale is irrelevant

1) Why is it irrelevant that he played with Parish and McHale but it's relevant when James played with Wade and Bosh?
2) You said Bird is like James but more intelligent. That includes athleticism.
3) Bird was not even close to James in terms of defense.. He was above average, he wasn't really great at it. He relied on Parish/McHale on many cases. Bird had a short career. I don't care if he was a genius or not but proven stars like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and Kareem had a much longer and just as successful career. I'm not going to put Bird over the likes of those guys when he had a short career.

the avenger
08-22-2013, 04:37 PM
1) Why is it irrelevant that he played with Parish and McHale but it's relevant when James played with Wade and Bosh?
2) You said Bird is like James but more intelligent. That includes athleticism.
3) Bird was not even close to James in terms of defense.. He was above average, he wasn't really great at it. He relied on Parish/McHale on many cases. Bird had a short career. I don't care if he was a genius or not but proven stars like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and Kareem had a much longer and just as successful career. I'm not going to put Bird over the likes of those guys when he had a short career.

1) I never used your 1) as an argument, I think it's even laughable to compare Bosh to McHale

2) no it doesn't, I meant that Bird is an overall type of player just like James is

3) if you put Kobe over Bird, we're done arguing and I pity you

OceanSpray
08-22-2013, 04:41 PM
1) I never used your 1) as an argument, I think it's even laughable to compare Bosh to McHale

2) no it doesn't, I meant that Bird is an overall type of player just like James is

3) if you put Kobe over Bird, we're done arguing and I pity you

1) I'm sure you don't. We have to consider that Bird got more than enough help.
2) No, you said Bird is James but more intelligent. This means Bird is basically James but more intelligent. Stop backpedaling when this is clearly what you said.
3) No, I put Kobe over Bird because of longevity. Kobe has done and achieved much more than Bird has. In their prime, Bird would be over Kobe. But I'm not going to ignore the extra years Kobe has been dominating in aside. Had Bird had a longer career, he's easily top 3. By your definition, LeBron should be the 4th best player because he's just Bird but less intelligent, right?

LBJackpot
08-22-2013, 04:47 PM
Or....You watched the wrong interview genius. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCC5S9jX5Wk

Hahahahaha wow thats the interview u keep *****ing about? It was like 2 questions specifically directed at him not the team. Notice how Doris is asking questions specifically about LeBron saying "LeBron how do you....."

Of course you will just say this is an excuse though cuz ur mind is made up. Go ahead and watch the press conference interview thats not only 1 minute long like this one hahaha.

ryang
08-22-2013, 04:56 PM
Lebron has the greatest following of ray finkles in the history of sport. You should all meet up and jump of a bridge with no water underneath. I wonder what some of your rooms look like? Do you have knifes thrown into a Lebron doll? I'm betting you do.

Big Zo
08-22-2013, 05:05 PM
Lebron has the greatest following of ray finkles in the history of sport. You should all meet up and jump of a bridge with no water underneath. I wonder what some of your rooms look like? Do you have knifes thrown into a Lebron doll? I'm betting you do.

The laces were in! They were in!!!

ryang
08-22-2013, 07:58 PM
What would you know about PRESSURE.

Bruno
08-22-2013, 11:13 PM
Lebron almost choked the game away in the finals minutes though. He also had a chance to tie the game but missed. It took the greatest shot of all time to save Lebron from a 1-3 finals record and another pedestrian finals.

LeBron had a poor final two minutes with turnovers and missed shots (minus his second attempted three on the first three point shooting possession) but he had a great fourth quarter overall. sure Bosh and Allen were huge but he still had a great 4th. 16 points?

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 11:36 PM
Hahahahaha wow thats the interview u keep *****ing about? It was like 2 questions specifically directed at him not the team. Notice how Doris is asking questions specifically about LeBron saying "LeBron how do you....."

Of course you will just say this is an excuse though cuz ur mind is made up. Go ahead and watch the press conference interview thats not only 1 minute long like this one hahaha.

no, he has been told that multiple times. His only retort is to bring up a hockey player who was asked about his team.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 11:40 PM
Kerr didn't save the bulls and horry or fisher never made a series elimination shot. They all made big shots but when the last game or elimination game was in the balance then Jordan and kobe stepped up and won those games. Ray bailed lebron out in a elimination game where lebron was the one who put then in a bad situation during crunch time. Barkley could of joined lets say the heat and team up with Jordan and shaq but he choose to win like the greats before him who people said that were better then him. Barkley dared to be the best and at least gave it his all unlike Lebron the coward taking the easiest road to a title ever.

1- you base everything off the last 30 seconds, while ignoring the first 47:30?
2- you neglect the fact that Kobe was GIVEN a super team, but harp on Bron for finding his due to his management sucking?

cool

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 11:44 PM
Seriously??? Bird was like James but more intelligent

Their games don't really resemble one another.

LBJ6
08-22-2013, 11:44 PM
Celtic team was stacked but LA was also stacked and Detroit with some other good teams. The gap of talent the C's had compared to rest of the league was not as big as Miami has it now. Bird is a better winner then Lebron and Lebron list are all players who led there team to a ring. Lebron didn't have to lead Miami they were going to win anyway since Jennings, Nate Robinson, or hibbert were not going to beat a bosh led team with wade and lebron as his running mates and solid proven role players.
Ha.Ha, thanks for the laugh.. In the 80's you only hear Teams such as Lakers and Celtics because the gap on the rest of the Teams were huge.. Unlike in the todays game where there are numbers of teams that can be contenders.. The only huge gap today in terms of talent is between Lebron and the rest of the NBA Players.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 11:46 PM
1) I never used your 1) as an argument, I think it's even laughable to compare Bosh to McHale

2) no it doesn't, I meant that Bird is an overall type of player just like James is

3) if you put Kobe over Bird, we're done arguing and I pity you

For some reason, I am seen as a Kobe hater here, and I think he has a case over Bird. Kobe's dominance over a huge period of time have just put him with or above Bird and his shorter career, even if he had a better peak.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2013, 11:46 PM
What would you know about PRESSURE.

I have, kissed a man.

the avenger
08-23-2013, 02:05 AM
@ Oceanspray:

1/ Every single one of the all time best got help. I'm not sure what your point is here.

2/ You' re putting words into my mouth... I said Bird was like James, but more intelligent (basketballwise that is). I later explained that he was like James in that way he also did it all on the court. I never said Bird was as athletic. If I would use your argumentation, you could say I define Bird as an athletic, black, bold man.

3/ Longevity? Bird nearly averaged 20/10/7 at the age of 35, being half-crippled. Sure, his career didn't last 20 years, but he achieved more (3MVP, 2 Finals MVP) than Kobe in less years. Magic's career didn't last very long either, nor did Wilt's. Shaq's career lasted longer, but his last 3-4 years were laughable. As for James in my all time rankings, he's currently in my top 10. I never said Bird was my 3, nor did I say he was better then James. I think James will be my 2 when it's all said and done.

UPRock
08-23-2013, 02:30 AM
I understand MJ and maybe Dr.J, but Bird does not belong there. Bird only had a few really great years, 6-8. He had some years where he wasn't really spectacular. He simply didn't do enough. Not to mention he had Parish and McHale, both who dominated. He had a really stacked team for the most part. Not to mention the LAL was the only competition.

So you understand Dr. J but not Bird? LOL

MTar786
08-23-2013, 03:52 AM
Wtf are you talking about? Bosh isn't even a top 50 player and Wade the past two years wouldn't be a top two player considering his health. You're just a hater. I'm done discussing with someone who thinks Wade+Bosh>Pippen+Rodman. It doesn't matter who James teamed with. Wade+Bosh aren't better than Shaq nor are they better than Pippen+Rodman. And did you just say Miami should build Bosh as a first option? You clearly don't understand basketball. Bosh isn't there to score. He will get his points but Bosh spreads the floor better than anyone else asides from maybe Dirk. Whatever, pointless debating with someone who thinks it's not okay for someone to get help from teammates.


ya wade isnt better than pippen or rodman. i mean he only single handedly won miami their first title against a heavy favorite dallas team. wade also had jordan type numbers in the 06 and 11 finals. dude, u are delusional if you think rodman and pippen are a better combo than wade and bosh as a supporting cast of players. not to mention that the 96-98 bulls had an older rodman who was pretty much a useless player by 2000. in 2010 wade was a top 3 player in the league imo and lebron joined someone who was considered the equal of a kobe bryant and someone who was considered top 3 pf in the league. obviously his stock would fall being the 3rd option. stop being so biased man. and just call a spade a spade. add ray allen and shane battier to the mix.. and its just completely unfair.

RaiderLakersA's
08-23-2013, 03:52 PM
At the end of the day players are just fans of the game. More learned fans, but fans nonetheless. It doesn't surprise me that there isn't a consensus top 3 or top 20 even.

OceanSpray
08-23-2013, 06:08 PM
ya wade isnt better than pippen or rodman. i mean he only single handedly won miami their first title against a heavy favorite dallas team. wade also had jordan type numbers in the 06 and 11 finals. dude, u are delusional if you think rodman and pippen are a better combo than wade and bosh as a supporting cast of players. not to mention that the 96-98 bulls had an older rodman who was pretty much a useless player by 2000. in 2010 wade was a top 3 player in the league imo and lebron joined someone who was considered the equal of a kobe bryant and someone who was considered top 3 pf in the league. obviously his stock would fall being the 3rd option. stop being so biased man. and just call a spade a spade. add ray allen and shane battier to the mix.. and its just completely unfair.

Wtf are you talking about? Rodman on Miami, are you kidding me? What Miami needs is a rebounder and someone who can defend and hustle. Rodman is the absolute best at that. Pippen or Wade? If you're with LeBron, Pippen. Imagine LeBron and Pippen on the same team locking down defenders. Also, I said Wade+Bosh or Pippen+Rodman, I wasn't comparing them individually. Individually, Wade is a better player than Pippen. But in terms of being a team? Pippen+Rodman+LeBron would be a much deadlier trio because they all supplement each other. Pippen is a better defender than LeBron. Rodman is a better rebounder and hustles. Wade/Bosh don't rebound or defend better than James.

OceanSpray
08-23-2013, 06:19 PM
So you understand Dr. J but not Bird? LOL

Dr.J had a longer career and put up huge numbers.

ryang
08-23-2013, 07:06 PM
I have, kissed a man.

Your gun is digging into my hip

ryang
08-23-2013, 07:08 PM
Just jump off that bridge. Mentally it seems you already have.

mightybosstone
08-23-2013, 07:44 PM
MJ Kareem and Magic for me
x2. Right now, I think this is definitely the three greatest players of all time. You could make a case for Wilt, Russell and Lebron, but I think those three guys have the strongest resumes as of right now. Lebron will join that list at some point, but he's got to earn a little more hardware and continue to be consistently great for a few more years.

As for Lebron's list, I'm sure he was just naming guys he's modeled his game after. It's no coincidence the three guys he chose were wring players and the two players he overrated were small forwards. I wouldn't read too much into this list, but it is clear how much he models himself after guys like that.

mightybosstone
08-23-2013, 07:50 PM
Dr.J had a longer career and put up huge numbers.

Bird's NBA peak was far stronger than anything Dr. J put up in the NBA. Erving's ABA numbers are sick, but I would argue that he was playing against inferior competition until he joined the NBA. Notice the significant dropoff in his statistical production from his ABA numbers in 75-76 to his numbers in his first NBA season in 76-77.

In terms of overall games, I would give Erving the edge in athleticism and pure scoring, but Bird the edge in pretty much everything else. Bird was a superior shooter, rebounder, passer, defender and clutch player. I love Erving, but Bird is the superior player on any all-time list, and I don't think it's that close.

Hawkeye15
08-23-2013, 08:25 PM
x2. Right now, I think this is definitely the three greatest players of all time. You could make a case for Wilt, Russell and Lebron, but I think those three guys have the strongest resumes as of right now. Lebron will join that list at some point, but he's got to earn a little more hardware and continue to be consistently great for a few more years.

As for Lebron's list, I'm sure he was just naming guys he's modeled his game after. It's no coincidence the three guys he chose were wring players and the two players he overrated were small forwards. I wouldn't read too much into this list, but it is clear how much he models himself after guys like that.

I love me some Magic, but nope on top 3. He slips in and out of my top 5 depending on the day, but my top 3 are concrete, unless Bron keeps on his projection:

MJ
KAJ
Wilt

Hawkeye15
08-23-2013, 08:26 PM
Bird's NBA peak was far stronger than anything Dr. J put up in the NBA. Erving's ABA numbers are sick, but I would argue that he was playing against inferior competition until he joined the NBA. Notice the significant dropoff in his statistical production from his ABA numbers in 75-76 to his numbers in his first NBA season in 76-77.

In terms of overall games, I would give Erving the edge in athleticism and pure scoring, but Bird the edge in pretty much everything else. Bird was a superior shooter, rebounder, passer, defender and clutch player. I love Erving, but Bird is the superior player on any all-time list, and I don't think it's that close.

not to mention Irving's only title run, he really wasn't anything special come playoff time. He is somewhere in the 12-17 range for me.

Bostonjorge
08-24-2013, 06:34 PM
Wtf are you talking about? Rodman on Miami, are you kidding me? What Miami needs is a rebounder and someone who can defend and hustle. Rodman is the absolute best at that. Pippen or Wade? If you're with LeBron, Pippen. Imagine LeBron and Pippen on the same team locking down defenders. Also, I said Wade+Bosh or Pippen+Rodman, I wasn't comparing them individually. Individually, Wade is a better player than Pippen. But in terms of being a team? Pippen+Rodman+LeBron would be a much deadlier trio because they all supplement each other. Pippen is a better defender than LeBron. Rodman is a better rebounder and hustles. Wade/Bosh don't rebound or defend better than James.

If your comparing players compare the players the heat played in the playoffs to the teams the bulls and lakers played. I know heat played Jennings, Nate Robinson, and hibbert and there top 50 right? James had the 3 best players on his team even thou thier stats didn't say so because of the lebron phenomenon. Lebron was scared to play those teams so he left Cleveland. Not one of those teams have more then Cleveland with James on it but he can't win with a even playing field.

ryang
08-24-2013, 07:23 PM
Even playing field? Lmao. Finkle is Jorge Jorge is finkle.

Chronz
08-24-2013, 07:42 PM
Not one of those teams have more then Cleveland with James on it but he can't win with a even playing field.

Proof?

abe_froman
08-24-2013, 08:01 PM
x2. Right now, I think this is definitely the three greatest players of all time. You could make a case for Wilt, Russell and Lebron, but I think those three guys have the strongest resumes as of right now. Lebron will join that list at some point, but he's got to earn a little more hardware and continue to be consistently great for a few more years.
.
i want to see lebron post prime before i rank him/being to speculate,right now his prime looks great but will he have have a dramatic decline(ala hakeem)? that def effects his ranking.also lately i have been questioning kareem's status a concrete top 3,i'm concerned with the lack of winning from oscar's decline to magic taking over the lakers.outside of number 1 ,my list is very fluid.but right now i have wilt over kareem and russell(though that may change tomorrow)

Ballperiodicals
08-28-2013, 11:48 AM
when he pass the 25000 pts mark (in about a season& in half ) everyone would have to put him in the top 10 players of all time. he pass magic in points and is about to pass bird in points as well

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-28-2013, 12:33 PM
Proof?

0-7 in Cleveland, while being the Vegas favorites multiple times. Two Bronze medals without Kobe. 2/3 when having the best supporting cast that any superstar has ever seen.

ryang
08-28-2013, 01:23 PM
Just change your name to ray finkle and jump off a bridge or turn the nba off before you go on a shooting spree.

ATX
08-28-2013, 01:33 PM
Just change your name to ray finkle and jump off a bridge or turn the nba off before you go on a shooting spree. You sad daday

x1,000,000,000

Chronz
08-28-2013, 02:19 PM
0-7 in Cleveland, while being the Vegas favorites multiple times. Two Bronze medals without Kobe. 2/3 when having the best supporting cast that any superstar has ever seen.
I asked for proof tho, not more opinion regarding off topic BS. Plz, if you're going to jump in on other peoples conversation, makes sure you understand the topic at hand, correcting you has gotten tiresome.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-28-2013, 03:15 PM
I asked for proof tho, not more opinion regarding off topic BS. Plz, if you're going to jump in on other peoples conversation, makes sure you understand the topic at hand, correcting you has gotten tiresome.How is Lebron being a perennial loser before joining the most stacked team ever not proof?

NYCkid12
08-28-2013, 03:43 PM
Lebron is not only a top 3 defender of all time, Hes easily the best Defender in any sport in any time period..ever. Hes also the greatest offensive player in any sport in any time era. Overall, Hes just the greatest human being of all time, hands down...

I figure if we tell the Lebronoholics what they want to hear, they will stop making these dumb *** threads to discuss his greatness. We get it, hes good at basketball, hes also likely the biggest tool bag in the nba..

Too bad you were the first to mention Lebron's ranking all-time.....good try though

The thread was about LBJ's top 3 of all time in his opinion...he answered it and didn't mention himself

Chronz
08-28-2013, 03:47 PM
How is Lebron being a perennial loser before joining the most stacked team ever not proof?
Because its an opinion. Its also ignoring a the primary topic, which is based on comparisons, not just 1 player.

Just let him chime in first, I wont respond to any more of your baits. If you want to keep jumping in, at least let him respond first.

ryang
08-28-2013, 04:02 PM
How is Lebron being a perennial loser before joining the most stacked team ever not proof?

Jump off the bridge before you hit the streets shooting at innocent people for no reason. Dam you are Lebrons ray finkle.

Bostonjorge
08-28-2013, 04:13 PM
Proof?

James last team in clevland.

C shaq / big z
PF Jamison / varejao / hickson
SF coward /
SG Parker / Danny green / west
PG Williams / Gibson

Lebron felt this wasn't enough to beat Jennings and the bucks, Robinson and the bulls or hibbert and the pacers

Chronz
08-28-2013, 04:20 PM
James last team in clevland.

C shaq / big z
PF Jamison / varejao / hickson
SF coward /
SG Parker / Danny green / west
PG Williams / Gibson

Lebron felt this wasn't enough to beat Jennings and the bucks, Robinson and the bulls or hibbert and the pacers

So you know how to name names.... congrats? You've also mastered the art of the strawman debate. Except theres one glaring flaw. Shaq/BigZ, Parker and for all intents and purposes Delonte West, have all retired. AV cant stay healthy and Williams/Gibson are scrubs. So technically speaking, those guys wouldn't be enough to do **** in todays NBA.

Therefore, if you're going to base your argument on hate and ridicule, at least make sense of the joke.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-28-2013, 04:21 PM
Because its an opinion. Its also ignoring a the primary topic, which is based on comparisons, not just 1 player.

Just let him chime in first, I wont respond to any more of your baits. If you want to keep jumping in, at least let him respond first.Once again, how is Lebron being 0-7 in Cleveland and having two bronze medals an opinion. Looks like facts to me.

Chronz
08-28-2013, 04:24 PM
Once again, how is Lebron being 0-7 in Cleveland and having two bronze medals an opinion. Looks like facts to me.
Its what you make of those facts thats opinionated and within the scope of the debate, also nonsensical. A double whammy of a failure

LBJackpot
08-28-2013, 06:49 PM
So you know how to name names.... congrats? You've also mastered the art of the strawman debate. Except theres one glaring flaw. Shaq/BigZ, Parker and for all intents and purposes Delonte West, have all retired. AV cant stay healthy and Williams/Gibson are scrubs. So technically speaking, those guys wouldn't be enough to do **** in todays NBA.

Therefore, if you're going to base your argument on hate and ridicule, at least make sense of the joke.


Ya but Shaq was an all star and Parker is a Euroleague legend! Mo Williams, LeBron's sidekick and one of the only players on that team still in the league went on to become.....a 6th man.

Imagine if we play Bostonjorge's game and go by names with absolutely no context.

Pg - Nash
Sg - Chuckbe ( just sayin it cuz he said coward for Bron)
Sf - MWP
Pf - Pau
C - Dwight

How could Kobe possibly not win a championship with that roster let alone barely make the playoffs? You have 2 MVPs, 2 DPOTY, and the most skilled big man in the league! Embarrassing i tell ya

OceanSpray
08-29-2013, 03:26 PM
How is Lebron being a perennial loser before joining the most stacked team ever not proof?

How was Kobe being a perennial loser after Shaq left and before Gasol came in not proof? He even cried for a trade to the Pistons. James being a loser? Last I checked, he carried that scrub of a franchise to the NBA finals and had countless battles with the strong Celtics and amazing Dwight Howard led Orlando team. Once again, you seem to forget that basketball is a team game but all of a sudden, it applies when it's Kobe. Are you saying only Kobe deserves to have teammates? See what happens when James has teammates? They win.

ryang
08-29-2013, 04:05 PM
Don't bother with ray finkle. He just hates Lebron. It be better if he just said that and stopped making stuff up but hey what can you do besides laugh.

Ballperiodicals
08-31-2013, 02:45 PM
How is Lebron being a perennial loser before joining the most stacked team ever not proof?

when did lebron play for the lakers ?:moon:

RiceOnTheRun
09-01-2013, 11:02 AM
Lebron almost choked the game away in the finals minutes though. He also had a chance to tie the game but missed. It took the greatest shot of all time to save Lebron from a 1-3 finals record and another pedestrian finals.

Yet other superstars are fine when Horry, Fisher and Kerr save their playoff runs?

PurpleLynch
09-01-2013, 01:18 PM
This thread is a classical bro-down competition. In every ****in sport you are gonna see this debate and everyone is gonna say different players. Just respect all opinions and talk about your choice and why do you made this choice,unless a hypotethical guy is an ******* wishing just to have a verbal fight on the net.
Unfortunately the net brings the worst of most people.Just use irony and don't be a silly man.

PurpleLynch
09-01-2013, 01:19 PM
Homewever,I actually have a problem doing a top 3. Too much stats,different scales of judgement and also the problem of comparing recent basketball and old basketball.

OceanSpray
09-01-2013, 11:57 PM
Jordan is undoubtedly #1, but I feel that any player from 2-10 has a case to be in the 2-3 spot. Dr.J might be an overreach but I can understand why James would choose Dr.J. Remember, everyone's top 3 is different. Maybe there was a special part of Dr.J's game that James really felt connected to his. Again, I wouldn't have Dr.J, but it's not like he was a bad player. He revolutionized basketball for Christ's sake.

slashsnake
09-02-2013, 01:21 AM
So you are upset he didn’t win the finals in a sweep or something? You are arguing that in a game when he hit the winning basket in OT, THEN stole the ball on D to keep the other team from getting a final shot, that he nearly choked? A game where he had 3 steals, a block, 32 points, 11 assists, and 10 boards and 18 of those points after the 3rd quarter was the one who almost choked it away at the end? The guy who hit a 3 with 20 seconds left in regulation, who grabbed back to back to back defensive boards to ice 3 straight SA possessions in the 4th and who in OT, hit Ray Allen for a wide open layup to make it a one possession game.

And pedestrian? 25 points, 7 assists, 11 boards, 2.3 steals and a block a game in that finals series. That’s pedestrian? I mean any NBA player can put up that in the finals… Wait. Only one ever has. Might as well call Wilt’s 100 pt game pedestrian as well while we are here, throw in Rodmans rebounding, Phil Jacksons rings, and Jordans scoring as just “pedestrian” if that is how you define the word.

As for his list. It makes sense to me. He’s 20 something year old player, not a historian. He is a small forward, who listed Jordan, and two of the best small forwards. I’d expect Dwight Howard to say Jordan, Wilt, and Kareem. I’d expect CP3 to say Jordan, Magic, and Oscar. Of course they favor their position, because that is what they play. How can you not expect bias there?


And what do all three have in common. Wings who can score a lot of points, rebound better than you’d expect at their position, and had very good court vision and could pass the ball. Hmmm, maybe Lebron likes that for some reason.

So why else would he like Dr J? Well he was an NBA MVP, an NBA MVP, an ABA champion, an NBA champion, a 16 time all star, able to lead both leagues in scoring, an NBA 1st team defensive player… And if his uncle or someone told him they thought he was the best ever, when Lebron youtubes the guy, well his highlights sure lend to that belief. Myself, I have him top 15 or so. But that’s the fun of calling out your top 3 or 5 guys. You can make an argument for a lot of them as long as Jordan is in the group.

ManRam
09-02-2013, 01:35 AM
nevermind!

BRADfromOZ
09-02-2013, 01:56 AM
Not yet but given times and rings it appears quite likely.

Bostonjorge
09-03-2013, 03:33 AM
Yet other superstars are fine when Horry, Fisher and Kerr save their playoff runs?

Those guys never won a close out game or game 7. Kobe and Jordan always closed those games out.

ryang
09-03-2013, 02:22 PM
Without fisher , horry the lakers have one less ring regardless of how many words you throw togeather.

ryang
09-03-2013, 02:24 PM
Oh and have you ever watched a game from Jordan? Do some digging and watch the games. Did he always have the ball for the last shot? Of course he's a pure shooter. Pretty dumb coaching move to have Steve Kerr handle the ball.

skitha67
09-03-2013, 02:48 PM
I understand MJ and maybe Dr.J, but Bird does not belong there. Bird only had a few really great years, 6-8. He had some years where he wasn't really spectacular. He simply didn't do enough. Not to mention he had Parish and McHale, both who dominated. He had a really stacked team for the most part. Not to mention the LAL was the only competition.

You obviously never seen Bird play, I'd still take larry over lebron any day of the week. Dr j doesn't belong on this list...

skitha67
09-03-2013, 02:49 PM
Dr j doesn't belong on this list, he doesn't even go in my top 20 never mind top 5

skitha67
09-03-2013, 02:52 PM
One thing is for sure Lebrons heat would of never beaten the lakers or celtics of the 80's or the bulls of 90's, I'm a knicks fan so I have no bias to this, I'd take MJ, BIrd, and Magic before Lebron..As of right now, and I seen all 4 play in their best years. Nobody touches MJ...Lebron is still not close...

Kobe2324
09-03-2013, 03:33 PM
in my opinion kobe is already 2nd all time, i would put magic in in the top 5, I cant really argue anyone who puts wilt in there, i dont personaly but cant hate on that pick, or kareem or rusself for that matter, when its all said and done kobe, Lebron and MJ will be known as the top 3 ever at that pont and time, what order they will be in im not sure...i think MJ is safe the other 2 spots is up for grabs more so for Lebron as kobe has already put his time in and is really just padding the stats now as he has accomplished so much already and still ahs a lot to offer...have to wait and see

OceanSpray
09-03-2013, 05:13 PM
You obviously never seen Bird play, I'd still take larry over lebron any day of the week. Dr j doesn't belong on this list...

You obviously think you saw something you didn't.

skitha67
09-03-2013, 07:10 PM
You obviously think you saw something you didn't.

You couldn't defend Bird he had no weakness, you need to understand that, the best not Pg passer I ever seen, best shooter I ever seen, can hit anywhere on the court, you fouled him didn't matter he was insane from the line, excellent post player either back or front, great defensive instincts, and believe it or not he can run the floor on a fast break as good as any, terrific rebounder, great team help defender, stats don't always tell the story...Ask anybody who seen Bird play, only player I ever seen that scared me more was MJ....LBJ has weakness you can exploit, he doesn't scare me, but I want to see better perimeter game which he is improving on, better FT%, LBJ is a specimen and obviously time is gonna tell how he truly stocks up to the great ones....bUt at this point in time I'd still go with Bird over LBJ, Bird and MJ had no weaknesses, you only hope they have an off night which never happened much in their primes.

smiddy012
09-03-2013, 07:31 PM
You couldn't defend Bird he had no weakness, you need to understand that, the best not Pg passer I ever seen, best shooter I ever seen, can hit anywhere on the court, you fouled him didn't matter he was insane from the line, excellent post player either back or front, great defensive instincts, and believe it or not he can run the floor on a fast break as good as any, terrific rebounder, great team help defender, stats don't always tell the story...Ask anybody who seen Bird play, only player I ever seen that scared me more was MJ....LBJ has weakness you can exploit, he doesn't scare me, but I want to see better perimeter game which he is improving on, better FT%, LBJ is a specimen and obviously time is gonna tell how he truly stocks up to the great ones....bUt at this point in time I'd still go with Bird over LBJ, Bird and MJ had no weaknesses, you only hope they have an off night which never happened much in their primes.

Yeah, as of right now you take Bird, but when Lebron's career is over that will likely change...

That said, I never saw Bird play, only MJ. My dad however, to my surprise, believes Bird is the best clutch shooter in history (ahead of MJ). So I guess when it comes to pure shooting, Bird's probably the best ever. The only knocks on Bird are his defense (not bad but not great) and his athleticism.

skitha67
09-04-2013, 07:51 AM
Yeah, as of right now you take Bird, but when Lebron's career is over that will likely change...

That said, I never saw Bird play, only MJ. My dad however, to my surprise, believes Bird is the best clutch shooter in history (ahead of MJ). So I guess when it comes to pure shooting, Bird's probably the best ever. The only knocks on Bird are his defense (not bad but not great) and his athleticism.

What separated Bird from everyone was that he was the smartest player on the floor every night, watching Bird play was basically watching a player that had every fundamental working for him, he was a coaches dream, and bird was a great defender, not just alright, he always guarded the top scores every night, like Dominquie, Dr. J..etc. Even MJ at times...He proved athleticism isn't nowhere near as important as knowing fundamentals, besides if basketball was about athleticism then Harold Miner could of been best ever lol. and I hate to tell ya, players from from mid 90's to now all lack it, due to isolation heavy set league nowadays, which is not basketball in any sense...You can go a whole week without watching a player box out for a rebound, it truly is pathetic what basketball turned into nowadays....I keep hoping real basketball returns soon at the professional level..

ryang
09-04-2013, 08:37 AM
Lebron could name his top 3 toilet papers and you guys would argue it for a week.

ryang
09-04-2013, 08:39 AM
I really hope the days of full yet soft toilet paper returns to the American toilet one day.

Captain Moroni
09-04-2013, 09:01 AM
Bill Russell

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 12:49 PM
You obviously never seen Bird play, I'd still take larry over lebron any day of the week. Dr j doesn't belong on this list...

I watched plenty of Bird. LeBron will rightly pass him, if he hasn't already.

Hawkeye15
09-04-2013, 12:50 PM
One thing is for sure Lebrons heat would of never beaten the lakers or celtics of the 80's or the bulls of 90's, I'm a knicks fan so I have no bias to this, I'd take MJ, BIrd, and Magic before Lebron..As of right now, and I seen all 4 play in their best years. Nobody touches MJ...Lebron is still not close...

none of that matters. None. You can only compare competition among that player/teams era. Otherwise, you are just fighting an uphill battle that can't be proven.

ryang
09-04-2013, 07:27 PM
Pat Riley never would have signed bosh to a max deal let alone made him a center in any era besides this one. To think otherwise is laughable to say the least. You construct teams according to the league your in currently. And currently there are very few big men. In the 90s bosh and the heat would have struggled. No ****.

beliges
09-05-2013, 07:03 PM
I watched plenty of Bird. LeBron will rightly pass him, if he hasn't already.

Not sure I can say LBJ has already surpassed Bird. However, LBJ will definitely pass him with another few more years of similar play and another title. I think Bird has been bumped out of the top 5 since his retirement. Id put Kobe and Shaq ahead of Bird at this point.

Hawkeye15
09-05-2013, 08:25 PM
Not sure I can say LBJ has already surpassed Bird. However, LBJ will definitely pass him with another few more years of similar play and another title. I think Bird has been bumped out of the top 5 since his retirement. Id put Kobe and Shaq ahead of Bird at this point.

Shaq is a no brainer, and I have Kobe ahead of Bird as well. Bron has passed Bird for me. It's not like Bird poses a long career, and James is such a better defender/playmaker with a better efficiency output, I can't ignore it now that he has 2 Finals MVP's and the team hardware to start comparing with anyone.

skitha67
09-05-2013, 11:40 PM
Shaq is a no brainer, and I have Kobe ahead of Bird as well. Bron has passed Bird for me. It's not like Bird poses a long career, and James is such a better defender/playmaker with a better efficiency output, I can't ignore it now that he has 2 Finals MVP's and the team hardware to start comparing with anyone.

Wow....kobe and Shaq would tell ya Bird was better lmao...Two totally different positions as well, besides Shaq was detrimental to his team in closing time do to his FT shooting ability, so that takes him off my list almost immediately, basketball is 48 mins not 44 mins....Kobe possibly, but Bird did better things all around....Still take Bird, and lets not forget LBJ and Kobe never played college ball, so they got added prime years, and most importantly nba basketball is basically powderpuff when comparing it to the 80's. much more physical 3 decades ago...

Michael Jordan once was asked who he would want to take a shot with the game on the line, other than himself. Before the question could be finished, Jordan quickly responded, "Larry Bird."

Hawkeye15
09-06-2013, 12:03 AM
Wow....kobe and Shaq would tell ya Bird was better lmao...Two totally different positions as well, besides Shaq was detrimental to his team in closing time do to his FT shooting ability, so that takes him off my list almost immediately, basketball is 48 mins not 44 mins....Kobe possibly, but Bird did better things all around....Still take Bird, and lets not forget LBJ and Kobe never played college ball, so they got added prime years, and most importantly nba basketball is basically powderpuff when comparing it to the 80's. much more physical 3 decades ago...

Michael Jordan once was asked who he would want to take a shot with the game on the line, other than himself. Before the question could be finished, Jordan quickly responded, "Larry Bird."


so you use others opinions to base yours?

Slug3
09-06-2013, 12:08 AM
Wow....kobe and Shaq would tell ya Bird was better lmao...Two totally different positions as well, besides Shaq was detrimental to his team in closing time do to his FT shooting ability, so that takes him off my list almost immediately, basketball is 48 mins not 44 mins....Kobe possibly, but Bird did better things all around....Still take Bird, and lets not forget LBJ and Kobe never played college ball, so they got added prime years, and most importantly nba basketball is basically powderpuff when comparing it to the 80's. much more physical 3 decades ago...

Michael Jordan once was asked who he would want to take a shot with the game on the line, other than himself. Before the question could be finished, Jordan quickly responded, "Larry Bird."


Bird was also very reckless with his body. His last 4 seasons or so were always short because of injuries. Sucks that had to happen.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 01:38 PM
so you use others opinions to base yours?

Just merely pointing out that MJ the greatest alltime player of the modern era quoted something special of bird. I seen all of them play, and being a Knicks fan I hated Jordan and Bird, and I think I backed my arguments up quite consistently. Bird was fantastic and it was a shame his career was cut short, but that doesn't change the fact he was purely dominate in his era, especially at his position, once LBJ gets his perimeter game more consistent like he did last season he will definetly trump Bird, but at this point in time Bird was better fundamentally, but LBJ fundamentals are improving with more experience he gets, but like Bird you will never no if an injury or something may happend in next couple of yrs o LBJ..LbJ still has time,it took Jordan. Few yrs in the league to develop a nasty fadeaway and consistent jumper, LBJ may be able to do the same, and to all the posters dissing LBJ about collusion, lets not forget he took the Cavs to finals with shittiest supporting cast I seen since AI carried 76'ers to finals. Bird had Mchale and Parrish, Jordan had Pippen, and later Rodman, Magic had Kareem, Worthy etc. So LBJ had Wade and Bosh, big fing deal....Wade hadn't been the same in yrs...

Hawkeye15
09-06-2013, 01:40 PM
Just merely pointing out that MJ the greatest alltime player of the modern era quoted something special of bird. I seen all of them play, and being a Knicks fan I hated Jordan and Bird, and I think I backed my arguments up quite consistently. Bird was fantastic and it was a shame his career was cut short, but that doesn't change the fact he was purely dominate in his era, especially at his position, once LBJ gets his perimeter game more consistent like he did last season he will definetly trump Bird, but at this point in time Bird was better fundamentally, but LBJ fundamentals are improving with more experience he gets, but like Bird you will never no if an injury or something may happend in next couple of yrs o LBJ..LbJ still has time,it took Jordan. Few yrs in the league to develop a nasty fadeaway and consistent jumper, LBJ may be able to do the same, and to all the posters dissing LBJ about collusion, lets not forget he took the Cavs to finals with shittiest supporting cast I seen since AI carried 76'ers to finals. Bird had Mchale and Parrish, Jordan had Pippen, and later Rodman, Magic had Kareem, Worthy etc. So LBJ had Wade and Bosh, big fing deal....Wade hadn't been the same in yrs...

so you neglect Bron's utter dominance in defense and playmaking over Bird?

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 02:15 PM
yes, Matt Geiger slowed up Shaq, if Shaq played against guys with some mass he would have been slowed up, still great but not epic

No. Against Matt Geiger for his career Shaq averaged this.

Regular season 26 and 11 on 60% shooting
Playoffs 33 and 16 on 57% shooting

Matt geiger was just another sacrifice who probably had a good game once or twice against him.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 02:23 PM
so you neglect Bron's utter dominance in defense and playmaking over Bird?

Actually Bird was a great defender, and a good as playmaker as any, but Lebron has nowhere near the IQ of bird when it came to playing basketball. More experience from LBJ and few yrs this all will be a moot point.

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 02:25 PM
Lebron is not only a top 3 defender of all time, Hes easily the best Defender in any sport in any time period..ever. Hes also the greatest offensive player in any sport in any time era. Overall, Hes just the greatest human being of all time, hands down...

I figure if we tell the Lebronoholics what they want to hear, they will stop making these dumb *** threads to discuss his greatness. We get it, hes good at basketball, hes also likely the biggest tool bag in the nba..

Whats funny is your always so quick to jump in and waste your time in these threads you hate. If you don't like the thread topic, then why even spend time typing in it. As long as guys like you are around, threads like this one are going to thrive.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 02:27 PM
so you neglect Bron's utter dominance in defense and playmaking over Bird?

I think a great way of looking at this is, with Kobe, LBj, and Bird who would you build your team around with if you own the first pick in the draft? My pick would be Bird, LBJ, and Kobe..

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 02:28 PM
Lebron almost choked the game away in the finals minutes though. He also had a chance to tie the game but missed. It took the greatest shot of all time to save Lebron from a 1-3 finals record and another pedestrian finals.

Every post by you so far on this thread is pure comedy

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 02:38 PM
The heat don't need to be led with that much talent. James is terrible in the playoffs when his team don't have every single advantage and somehow has trouble. If Indiana won it would of been one of the biggest upsets no matter how much Indiana was balling.

Also I take bird over James all day.

When Lebron was on Cleveland and they lost to Orlando, Lebron averaged something like 38 11 9. Cleveland had no advantages other than Bron and he balled out.

When the Heat played against Detroit and Lebron scored 29 of last 30 points and every point in the 4th quarter in a tight back and forth game in the "clutches" performance I have ever seen, with no advantages other than himself, Bron balled out.

Every post you have had so far in this thread have been pure deuce!

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 02:50 PM
His logic is ridiculous and its not even true lol. I was curious so I found the video of LeBron's game 7 postgame interview (would post it but im on my ipad) and just listened to the first question and answer.

First thing that he says is "Man this team is amazing"

Then says "through everything WE'VE been through WE'VE been able to persevere.

Then talks about how great the organization as a whole. That was all in the first question haha so that was all I needed to listen to.

Sounds like Joeblessu has a severe case of butthurt or he just doesnt know how to count

Yeah, I was gonna say that instead of saying "we" he says "this team" so Joe is just a complete hating fraud. Its so pitiful when guys go to these lengths to hate. At this point, his words may as well be coming out of a dogs duecer.


Or....You watched the wrong interview genius. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCC5S9jX5Wk

Good job, you found a one minute clip where someone doesn't say we, when asked a direct question about himself. How did you find this? Please include we in your response and make it make sense.

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 03:03 PM
Lebron has the greatest following of ray finkles in the history of sport. You should all meet up and jump of a bridge with no water underneath. I wonder what some of your rooms look like? Do you have knifes thrown into a Lebron doll? I'm betting you do.

Scary thing is I bet you have at least one PSDer pegged.

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 03:09 PM
I have, kissed a man.

...or this is the worst case of hemorrhoids I have ever seen.

Hawkeye15
09-06-2013, 03:13 PM
Actually Bird was a great defender, and a good as playmaker as any, but Lebron has nowhere near the IQ of bird when it came to playing basketball. More experience from LBJ and few yrs this all will be a moot point.

Bird was not a great defender. While I believe he was an underrated defender (his public perception is that of a poor defender), he was not anything special. As for playmaking, no. Bird was an excellent passer, but by playmaker, I mean a player that can run an offense. Bird was not this. LeBron is. LeBron has already had a number of years that statistically Bird never saw. Add in the defensive advantage, and it's enough for me.

Funny thing is, people keep saying, "Need to see more out of Bron". Bird was basically done by year 10. Bron is still riding his peak. The only advantage Bird has in those same 10 years, is he came in much more ready and developed. And to a ready made contender.

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 03:39 PM
You couldn't defend Bird he had no weakness, you need to understand that, the best not Pg passer I ever seen, best shooter I ever seen, can hit anywhere on the court, you fouled him didn't matter he was insane from the line, excellent post player either back or front, great defensive instincts, and believe it or not he can run the floor on a fast break as good as any, terrific rebounder, great team help defender, stats don't always tell the story...Ask anybody who seen Bird play, only player I ever seen that scared me more was MJ....LBJ has weakness you can exploit, he doesn't scare me, but I want to see better perimeter game which he is improving on, better FT%, LBJ is a specimen and obviously time is gonna tell how he truly stocks up to the great ones....bUt at this point in time I'd still go with Bird over LBJ, Bird and MJ had no weaknesses, you only hope they have an off night which never happened much in their primes.

Listen, I get where your coming from with the "Bird had no weaknesses" thing. And I agree Lebron had more weaknesses in his overall game than Bird. But in the fast break, Lebron is the greatest NBA player of all time and its not close. With or without the ball in his hands, Lebron moving full speed in a fast break situation is multiple levels above anyone else. We all know Larry can do everything well or at a high level, but don't act like he is anywhere near Lebron in a fast break scenario. If you think that, then you are suffering from a case of "things looked so much bigger and faster when I was a kid" syndrome.

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 03:57 PM
The great thing about a top three is that 1-4 have an argument for #1 and 2-15 have an argument for the 2 and 3 spots. So everyone's list is going to be different and it would take a lot for me to argue against someone's top 3. Like maybe John Stockton in there or something. But I know my list isn't popular and because I rate purely off peak. To me the top 3 in order are.

1.Lebron
2.Jordan
3.Shaq

lol, please
09-06-2013, 04:15 PM
As much as I dislike Lebron, finally someone doesn't disgustingly underrate Bird and ranks him correctly.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 05:13 PM
Bird was not a great defender. While I believe he was an underrated defender (his public perception is that of a poor defender), he was not anything special. As for playmaking, no. Bird was an excellent passer, but by playmaker, I mean a player that can run an offense. Bird was not this. LeBron is. LeBron has already had a number of years that statistically Bird never saw. Add in the defensive advantage, and it's enough for me.



Funny thing is, people keep saying, "Need to see more out of Bron". Bird was basically done by year 10. Bron is still riding his peak. The only advantage Bird has in those same 10 years, is he came in much more ready and developed. And to a ready made contender.

Again, I don't want to confuse you with the facts, Bird was INDEED a playmaker, you don't have to play point forward to be a playmaker, so strike one, Bird was not on in a ready made contender, so strike 2, it think if you put a little more thought into your posts you wouldn't be confused with facts, when Bird came to Celtics it was a team that didn't even win 30 games the year prior, but in Birds first year with Celtics they won 60 games, one of NBA's the biggest season turnaround in its history and that's a FACT sp!!! He made them into a contender!!!!!!!!If you kniw anything about basketball like you try to pretend you do, Lebron runs the point forward because he would not be the player he is a traditional SF.Lebron thrives of penetration in the paint from perimeter not near as effective on the wings..As far as defensively maybe Bird was not the strongest 1 on 1 defender, but he was great team defender, he anticipated the passing lanes like no one I ever seen before, there is more to defense than 1 on 1....Strangely enough IMO Bird was adequate as a 1:1 defender...basketball is a team sport, so I place much more emphasis into team defense...so strike 3....Stop hating on a legend....Only thing that is right in your post is "Bird was more ready and developed"...I'm not big on stats, but they're similar....Birds overall game is better than Lebrons, LbJ does some things better, but Bird edges him.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 05:21 PM
Listen, I get where your coming from with the "Bird had no weaknesses" thing. And I agree Lebron had more weaknesses in his overall game than Bird. But in the fast break, Lebron is the greatest NBA player of all time and its not close. With or without the ball in his hands, Lebron moving full speed in a fast break situation is multiple levels above anyone else. We all know Larry can do everything well or at a high level, but don't act like he is anywhere near Lebron in a fast break scenario. If you think that, then you are suffering from a case of "things looked so much bigger and faster when I was a kid" syndrome.

My point is there is no weakness in Larry's game, I've said they're things Lebron does well or better than Bird and running the floor is one of them, 1:1 defense is another, but Legend was adequate 1:1 but much better team defender than LBJ, not even close, Bird much more clutch, Bird better rebounder and passer, better leader, higher IQ, and can score on a rampage whenever he wanted or needed to..Lebron doesn't have that switch that MJ and Bird had....Not to mention Bird much better shooter from anywhere on the court, not even debtable, but LBj has the strongest drive to basket I ever seen, but Bird was effective as well driving to the basket, Bird much better in post, and this friends is how he was a great playmaker from the post, it's a lost art....

skitha67
09-06-2013, 05:29 PM
[QUOTE=lolPhillies;27000162]As much as I dislike Lebron, finally someone doesn't disgustingly underrate Bird and ranks him correctly.[/
Bird has only been underrated in the new NBA era, which is the worst Era in my years of watching basketball, like I said before its too isolation heavy today....what were watching today is not great basketball, I feel bad for the young kids learning the game now, all I know is I'm teaching my son how to be the smartest player, IQ always trumps Brawn.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 05:37 PM
The great thing about a top three is that 1-4 have an argument for #1 and 2-15 have an argument for the 2 and 3 spots. So everyone's list is going to be different and it would take a lot for me to argue against someone's top 3. Like maybe John Stockton in there or something. But I know my list isn't popular and because I rate purely off peak. To me the top 3 in order are.

1.Lebron
2.Jordan
3.Shaq

First off I'd take Hakeem over Shaq any day of week, Shaq does not belong on this list, in order to be apart of the greatest you have to be that clutch performer on a regular basis, and his FT is reason why....Kobe and Wade we're the closers on those championship teams, just look at the 1995 NBA finals I think you'll get a good idea that Hakeem was a better player, he out classed the giant with his cunning ways. Lebron is gonna be a top five, but my list as of today from what I've seen goes, MJ, Magic, Bird, Duncan/ LBJ, Kobe

Chronz
09-06-2013, 05:45 PM
Bird wishes he could touch Shaq's overall impact on the game..... lol if Bird had no weaknesses, why was his country *** locked down so often?

Chronz
09-06-2013, 05:47 PM
so you use others opinions to base yours?

Ask him what does he think about Bird calling Brons first chip, quite possibly, the most dominant run ever... or something like that.

Chronz
09-06-2013, 05:50 PM
First off I'd take Hakeem over Shaq any day of week, Shaq does not belong on this list, in order to be apart of the greatest you have to be that clutch performer on a regular basis, and his FT is reason why....Kobe and Wade we're the closers on those championship teams, just look at the 1995 NBA finals I think you'll get a good idea that Hakeem was a better player, he out classed the giant with his cunning ways. Lebron is gonna be a top five, but my list as of today from what I've seen goes, MJ, Magic, Bird, Duncan/ LBJ, Kobe

What if you dont want to wait for Hakeem to finally master the art of passing and utilizing his teammates? What if we want the more dominant bigman from day 1?

That a year 3 Shaq was basically able to go toe to toe with Prime Hakeem isn't much of a diss. If you're going to compare a youngster to a prime player, why cant we do the same for when Prime Shaq OBLITERATED old Dream? Dream was still an All-NBA caliber performer, and Shaq made him look like a D-Leaguer. In Shaq's words, he finally slayed the dragon that was Dream.

ryang
09-06-2013, 08:49 PM
Scary thing is I bet you have at least one PSDer pegged.

That's scary? And no I could care less.

bucketss
09-06-2013, 09:11 PM
My point is there is no weakness in Larry's game, I've said they're things Lebron does well or better than Bird and running the floor is one of them, 1:1 defense is another, but Legend was adequate 1:1 but much better team defender than LBJ, not even close, Bird much more clutch, Bird better rebounder and passer, better leader, higher IQ, and can score on a rampage whenever he wanted or needed to..Lebron doesn't have that switch that MJ and Bird had....Not to mention Bird much better shooter from anywhere on the court, not even debtable, but LBj has the strongest drive to basket I ever seen, but Bird was effective as well driving to the basket, Bird much better in post, and this friends is how he was a great playmaker from the post, it's a lost art....

1. not only did you say he is a better team defender, but "much" better, and you also added that its not even close? do you watch lebron?

2. made up switch, just like "killer instinct" "will to win" and "clutch gene"

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 09:14 PM
My point is there is no weakness in Larry's game, I've said they're things Lebron does well or better than Bird and running the floor is one of them, 1:1 defense is another, but Legend was adequate 1:1 but much better team defender than LBJ, not even close, Bird much more clutch, Bird better rebounder and passer, better leader, higher IQ, and can score on a rampage whenever he wanted or needed to..Lebron doesn't have that switch that MJ and Bird had....Not to mention Bird much better shooter from anywhere on the court, not even debtable, but LBj has the strongest drive to basket I ever seen, but Bird was effective as well driving to the basket, Bird much better in post, and this friends is how he was a great playmaker from the post, it's a lost art....

Please, there are few players in the history of basketball that jump passing lanes better than Lebron. And multiple times in the playoffs against Duncan, Splitter, and Hibbert he rotated over and rejected the opposing center at the rim. That is team defense and Bird is nowhere near lebron in those two aspects of team defense.

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 09:20 PM
That's scary? And no I could care less.

Scary sad

skitha67
09-06-2013, 09:33 PM
Well just like at the famous steal that bird had against Detriot, he did that day in day out in the clutch..

skitha67
09-06-2013, 09:34 PM
1. not only did you say he is a better team defender, but "much" better, and you also added that its not even close? do you watch lebron?

2. made up switch, just like "killer instinct" "will to win" and "clutch gene"
Yes, I know Lebrons game, and Bird was the best ever guarding the passing lanes....Great at switches...

skitha67
09-06-2013, 09:39 PM
Please, there are few players in the history of basketball that jump passing lanes better than Lebron. And multiple times in the playoffs against Duncan, Splitter, and Hibbert he rotated over and rejected the opposing center at the rim. That is team defense and Bird is nowhere near lebron in those two aspects of team defense.
Bird was one of the best in history he was just so crafty, that's my point, you don't have to block shots to be effective, blocked shots are overrated if you don't get the ball in sequence....Bird was much more disruptive in passing lanes and great post defender, I will say Lebron is a better 1:1 defender and it is difficult taking him to the paint he does have freakish footwork in staying with his man....

skitha67
09-06-2013, 09:48 PM
What if you dont want to wait for Hakeem to finally master the art of passing and utilizing his teammates? What if we want the more dominant bigman from day 1?

That a year 3 Shaq was basically able to go toe to toe with Prime Hakeem isn't much of a diss. If you're going to compare a youngster to a prime player, why cant we do the same for when Prime Shaq OBLITERATED old Dream? Dream was still an All-NBA caliber performer, and Shaq made him look like a D-Leaguer. In Shaq's words, he finally slayed the dragon that was Dream.

Shaq is a dominate player, but Hakeem showed in that series 1995 finals remember the Magic were SWEPT, Hakeem and Shaq did go toe to toe, but Hakeem came through when they needed him most....the clutch factor in play once again...so again you can have a 44 minute Shaq ill take 48 mins of Hakeem...,

bucketss
09-06-2013, 09:50 PM
Bird was one of the best in history he was just so crafty, that's my point, you don't have to block shots to be effective, blocked shots are overrated if you don't get the ball in sequence....Bird was much more disruptive in passing lanes and great post defender, I will say Lebron is a better 1:1 defender and it is difficult taking him to the paint he does have freakish footwork in staying with his man....

not really, do you watch lebron?

Chronz
09-06-2013, 09:56 PM
Shaq is a dominate player, but Hakeem showed in that series 1995 finals remember the Magic were SWEPT, Hakeem and Shaq did go toe to toe, but Hakeem came through when they needed him most....the clutch factor in play once again...so again you can have a 44 minute Shaq ill take 48 mins of Hakeem...,
Read my post bro

If you're going to compare a youngster to a prime player, why cant we do the same for when Prime Shaq OBLITERATED old Dream? Dream was still an All-NBA caliber performer, and Shaq made him look like a D-Leaguer. In Shaq's words, he finally slayed the dragon that was Dream.

More importantly, answer the questions. The NBA isn't just about 1 matchup, I'll take Shaq and his superiority against the league at large any day.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 10:01 PM
Actually Bird and Magic kind of saved basketball, just so you know, Shaq was a dominate center a great player, but overall skill wise and two totally different positions he wasn't as good a bird....Shaq in the last five minutes is why he will never go down as the greatest ever, u cannot underestimate the clutch factor and is why he couldn't lead the Magic on his own, that's why Kobe and wade fit well with him...Not disrespecting Shaq but his ft ability killed him, a simple fundamental is why he won't be ever considered greatest ever.....You can arguE maybe greatest ceNter, but surely you'd get old timers before me that will talk about Russell, and Wilt and I'd liked Hakeem better myself, but I'm still giving Shaq props, Hakeem and Kareem only ones id seen that id take ahead of shaq, but its close.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 10:04 PM
Read my post bro

If you're going to compare a youngster to a prime player, why cant we do the same for when Prime Shaq OBLITERATED old Dream? Dream was still an All-NBA caliber performer, and Shaq made him look like a D-Leaguer. In Shaq's words, he finally slayed the dragon that was Dream.

More importantly, answer the questions. The NBA isn't just about 1 matchup, I'll take Shaq and his superiority against the league at large any day.

Shaq is 3rd best center I've ever seen, that is pretty damn good, I am a Shaq fan, but Hakkeem and Kareem are better in my eyes...

skitha67
09-06-2013, 10:09 PM
Not to be offensive if Shaq had half the work ethic as Hakeem this debate would be not happening its that plain in simple, and also your question is beyond we're talking about 1999 first rd playoffs Hakeem was washed up, your a joke Shaq had 3 yrs in the league with a young body, what a stupid analogy...

Chronz
09-06-2013, 10:10 PM
Everybody knows what Magic and Bird meant to the league, thats beyond trivial when comparing talent and performance of 2 players from separate eras. Whats next, you gonna tell me about the time Magic jumped Center too?

I dont care about Shaq not being the greatest, just Bird. Nobody can win by themselves so Im not sure why you point to Orlando. Shaq once won a chip by going 15-1, you really think those teams were beat by the skins of their teeth? Hell nah, Shaq OBLITERATED squads. Besides Shaq WAS a clutch player despite his FT woes. Its only in certain situations of clutch time that Shaq becomes a liability, why would I value that 1% above the 99% that gos into winning? He still came up big, be it by being a decoy or by stepping up and hitting them when they count. If I want to crush teams, Ill take Shaq. If you want to barely win, I can see why you would take Dream. Enjoy the several years of him being a blackhole.

skitha67
09-06-2013, 10:21 PM
Read my post bro

If you're going to compare a youngster to a prime player, why cant we do the same for when Prime Shaq OBLITERATED old Dream? Dream was still an All-NBA caliber performer, and Shaq made him look like a D-Leaguer. In Shaq's words, he finally slayed the dragon that was Dream.

More importantly, answer the questions. The NBA isn't just about 1 matchup, I'll take Shaq and his superiority against the league at large any day.

Do your research, Hakeem better defensively, not even close, and all around game.

IKnowHoops
09-06-2013, 10:31 PM
Do your research, Hakeem better defensively, not even close, and all around game.

All around game is great, but Shaq's single dimension was more dominant than all of Hakeems multiple dimensions and the numbers back that up very easily. Hakeem is awesome btw and he is definately on my war team, but Shaq is an unstoppable force in which the League had absolutely no answer for.

Chronz
09-07-2013, 12:06 AM
Do your research, Hakeem better defensively, not even close, and all around game.
Research done. Never said Hakeem was inferior defensively. All around game doesn't equate to him being a better player IMO. Inferior passer and scoring output+efficiency.

Chronz
09-07-2013, 12:08 AM
Not to be offensive if Shaq had half the work ethic as Hakeem this debate would be not happening its that plain in simple
Maybe, but what do I care? He could have been the GOAT if he cared enough, he'll have to settle for being better than Dream IMO.


and also your question is beyond we're talking about 1999 first rd playoffs Hakeem was washed up, your a joke Shaq had 3 yrs in the league with a young body, what a stupid analogy...
Hakeem was washed up yet he was an All-NBA caliber player with impressive production? Not buying your objectivity here.

ryang
09-07-2013, 03:10 AM
Scary sad

Do you sniff paint?

skitha67
09-07-2013, 08:17 AM
Actually, there was a answer for him in 1995, did you watch that series? Did you know Shaq had half the amt. of double teams and triple teams hakeem had, just so you know, Shaq would tell yoU this, he could not D up Hakeem 1:1.....Rockets game plan was brilliant they knew Shaq would get his points, but they weren't leaving Scott or Anderson alone to hit threes, and it afforded them to regulate Penny penetrating in paint and is key to why the Magic lost that series....and also Anderson's missed free throw attempts in game 1....Shaq I believed once said, " Hakeem was the only center in the league that I couldn't intimidate". My biggest problem with Shaq was he was born with these awesome gifts, and all he needed to do was work on his FT shooting and he most certainly be considered the greatest ever if he 70-75% a clip, for the life of me I can never understand why he couldn't get better, but then it occurred to me, he was to busy trying to rap his whacky *** flows, and play in horrible b- movies like Kazaam, while Hakeem is in the Gym getting better and better day in and day out, and causing us to debate this topic, when in all actuality Shaq should of easily been the greatest ever......

skitha67
09-07-2013, 08:31 AM
Research done. Never said Hakeem was inferior defensively. All around game doesn't equate to him being a better player IMO. Inferior passer and scoring output+efficiency.

This getting more comical as we go, so you totally look over the fact that Hakeem was utterly dominate defensively, you do know players play defense for half the game as well? You talk about 1 matchup, its the NBa finals, I there a bigger stage for 7 game series to judge players, a prime young injury free Shaq against the cunning seasoned vet, I'm sorry dude, I don't understand logic, truth is I knew that series was over after game 1. Hakeem bested him according to a great gameplan...Posters are talking about a first rd matchup in playoffs 4-5 yrs later how "Shaq slayed dragon" or some crap...duh, whatever....Shaq dunked, that was his game, took him ten yrs to realize that you can shoot a hook....Shaq needed the best players in the league to win his championships, Hakeem certainly didn't. He had a older veteran in drexler in that series, nowhere near as good as a Kobe Bryant, did u see the team that Hakeem won with in 1994, yht series broke my hert being die hard Knicks fan....Honestly, the talent around him was not the best any stretch, most were average players. Yrs later, cassell was an all star, but not that year...just goes to show ya, Hakeem was a bigger difference maker......which equates to sheer dominance in my book....sorry I'm going away from this discussion for now you guys have fun....peace...

IKnowHoops
09-07-2013, 01:01 PM
Do you sniff paint?

What tipped you off?

Chronz
09-07-2013, 04:22 PM
Actually, there was a answer for him in 1995, did you watch that series?
Actually? What exactly are you opposing in my post here? That quote in 95 predates the quote I was giving, so of what importance is it? He still said he slew Dream.....


Did you know Shaq had half the amt. of double teams and triple teams hakeem had, just so you know, Shaq would tell yoU this, he could not D up Hakeem 1:1
Shaq has said alot of things over the years, Im sure we can quote him back and forth all day. I would like to know where you got that fact from tho, not that I dont believe you, I just have a hard time believing a guy dishing out as many assists as Shaq is getting that many less doubles. I do recall Dream defending Shaq better than anyone else 1 on 1, but again, that wasn't PRIME Shaq.


.....Rockets game plan was brilliant they knew Shaq would get his points, but they weren't leaving Scott or Anderson alone to hit threes, and it afforded them to regulate Penny penetrating in paint and is key to why the Magic lost that series....and also Anderson's missed free throw attempts in game 1....Shaq I believed once said, " Hakeem was the only center in the league that I couldn't intimidate". My biggest problem with Shaq was he was born with these awesome gifts, and all he needed to do was work on his FT shooting and he most certainly be considered the greatest ever if he 70-75% a clip, for the life of me I can never understand why he couldn't get better, but then it occurred to me, he was to busy trying to rap his whacky *** flows, and play in horrible b- movies like Kazaam, while Hakeem is in the Gym getting better and better day in and day out, and causing us to debate this topic, when in all actuality Shaq should of easily been the greatest ever......
I dont believe you know what kind of work Shaq put in over the years to become the player he is. Its not as easy as working on your free throws. Wilt was like Shaq in so many ways, he was an even worse FT shooter and he tried a variety of techniques.

Why are you even discussing what Shaq could have been when what really matters is what they accomplished given their gifts. Like if Hakeem had picked up basketball alot sooner, Im sure he would have learned the art of passing alot sooner as well, sadly he was a raw product and his team had to wait for him to embrace the role. I dont have to deal with that with Shaq.


This getting more comical as we go, so you totally look over the fact that Hakeem was utterly dominate defensively, you do know players play defense for half the game as well?
Whats comical are the leaps your making to make a point. Im not overlooking anything, Im pointing out how one sided YOU are being. I never contested that Shaq was an inferior defender, my claim is that hes the better OVERALL Player. If you cant deduce why I would feel so, then thats sad but heres the explanation for you, because he makes up for the difference on the other end, while being a superior winner..... there really is nothing you have said to make me change that opinion.



You talk about 1 matchup, its the NBa finals, I there a bigger stage for 7 game series to judge players, a prime young injury free Shaq against the cunning seasoned vet, I'm sorry dude, I don't understand logic, truth is I knew that series was over after game 1. Hakeem bested him according to a great gameplan...Posters are talking about a first rd matchup in playoffs 4-5 yrs later how "Shaq slayed dragon" or some crap...duh, whatever....Shaq dunked, that was his game, took him ten yrs to realize that you can shoot a hook....Shaq needed the best players in the league to win his championships, Hakeem certainly didn't. He had a older veteran in drexler in that series, nowhere near as good as a Kobe Bryant, did u see the team that Hakeem won with in 1994, yht series broke my hert being die hard Knicks fan....Honestly, the talent around him was not the best any stretch, most were average players. Yrs later, cassell was an all star, but not that year...just goes to show ya, Hakeem was a bigger difference maker......which equates to sheer dominance in my book....sorry I'm going away from this discussion for now you guys have fun....peace...
If you dont see the relevance of Prime Shaq DESTROYING All-NBA Caliber Dream, then I dont see the point of bringing up Prime Dream going toe to toe with Baby Shaq. Not buying the rest of your opinions.

ryang
09-07-2013, 05:27 PM
What tipped you off?

Can't remember. The paint smell got to me as well

Durant is hype
09-07-2013, 05:49 PM
Chronz, why are you bringing up head to head matches? That's sample size.

SLY WILLIAMS
09-07-2013, 06:01 PM
Hakeem had better footwork than Shaq but not as dominating an impact as Shaq in my opinion. Even in the finals where people say that Hakeem dominated Shaq I think they are exaggerating. Shaq was only 22 years old and while the Rockets swept the young Magic team Shaq was not nearly as bad as some people say.

IKnowHoops
09-07-2013, 09:34 PM
Just check the stats, they aren't close. Its easy to see why one would take Shaq. Now on the other hand if someone wants to take Dream instead its not a crime. But Shaq is still the more dominant and impactful player.

Durant is hype
09-07-2013, 10:47 PM
^You're checking the wrong stats,because Hakeem was better.

FlashBolt
09-07-2013, 11:24 PM
Can you really go wrong with either player? I'd personally take Hakeem but the next best thing would be Shaq for me. 1a-1b. It's like arguing apples or applesauce.

Chronz
09-08-2013, 01:57 PM
Chronz, why are you bringing up head to head matches? That's sample size.

Because I entertain the arguments of others sometimes. I would much rather focus on what they accomplished vs the NBA rather than each other, believe me.

Chronz
09-08-2013, 02:05 PM
Even in the finals where people say that Hakeem dominated Shaq I think they are exaggerating. Shaq was only 22 years old and while the Rockets swept the young Magic team Shaq was not nearly as bad as some people say.

Exactly, when Dream made the Finals at 23 he wasn't looking any better, he was more raw than baby Shaq was.

IKnowHoops
09-08-2013, 04:59 PM
^You're checking the wrong stats,because Hakeem was better.

Huh? pts/per/win/rings what you want?

Durant is hype
09-08-2013, 05:58 PM
Huh? pts/per/win/rings what you want?

Wins Produced.

king4day
09-08-2013, 09:11 PM
I really have no idea where to put this...

http://tosh.comedycentral.com/blog/2013/09/07/dial-it-back-on-the-shoelaces-lebron?xrs=synd_facebook_090813_tosh_96

What the F happened to his toes?

IKnowHoops
09-08-2013, 09:23 PM
Wins Produced.

Looks like this

Best Season
Shaq-18.6
Dream-15.8

Total
Shaq-181.7
Dream-162.8

What ya want what ya want?

IKnowHoops
09-08-2013, 10:07 PM
This is from the beginning of there careers till 30 for the best centers ever.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=onealsh01&y1=2003&p2=olajuha01&y2=1993&p3=robinda01&y3=1996&p4=malonmo01&y4=1986&p5=abdulka01&y5=1978&p6=ewingpa01&y6=1993

This is the best single season of the best centers ever

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=onealsh01&y1=2000&p2=olajuha01&y2=1993&p3=robinda01&y3=1994&p4=malonmo01&y4=1982&p5=abdulka01&y5=1972&p6=ewingpa01&y6=1990

Durant is hype
09-09-2013, 01:42 AM
Looks like this

Best Season
Shaq-18.6
Dream-15.8

Total
Shaq-181.7
Dream-162.8

What ya want what ya want?

Where'd you get that from?

IKnowHoops
09-09-2013, 03:32 AM
Where'd you get that from?

Its just win shares provided by basketball-reference.com

amos1er
09-10-2013, 11:19 PM
Not even close, Lebron is becoming the most overrated superstar in the history of sports.

He has been for quite sometime.

amos1er
09-10-2013, 11:22 PM
What are you guys even debating. Don't you know that WS/48 and PER determine everything. Geez.

amos1er
09-10-2013, 11:26 PM
Once again, how is Lebron being 0-7 in Cleveland and having two bronze medals an opinion. Looks like facts to me.

According to these guys, he is already a top five player and will surpass MJ with one more ring on the most stacked team in NBA history. Kind of tough to argue against people with such obvious agendas.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2013, 12:21 AM
I see the tag team is back

ghettosean
09-11-2013, 12:59 AM
I can't stand stupid threads like this... Honestly do people really think Lebron is top 5 ever... EVER!!! Honestly how silly does this sound... If Ray Allen didn't hit that 3 pointer we'd be debating if he's better than Dirk :facepalm:

amos1er
09-11-2013, 01:11 AM
I can't stand stupid threads like this... Honestly do people really think Lebron is top 5 ever... EVER!!! Honestly how silly does this sound... If Ray Allen didn't hit that 3 pointer we'd be debating if he's better than Dirk :facepalm:

Lol. Dirk never had a team as stacked as Lebron against such watered down competition.

amos1er
09-11-2013, 01:13 AM
I see the tag team is back

Whoop there it is.

Chronz
09-11-2013, 11:18 AM
According to these guys, he is already a top five player and will surpass MJ with one more ring on the most stacked team in NBA history. Kind of tough to argue against people with such obvious agendas.
Except the person he was quoting was me and Ive never said anything of the sort. So its more like its tough to argue against people, so lets just make sweeping generalizations and label anyone an extremist.

Look its cute that you guys grace us with these guest appearances but couldn't you 2 take this agenda to your own profile?