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View Full Version : Worst trade of the past 2 years?



sunsfan88
08-19-2013, 11:58 PM
LAC - #1 overall pick, ROY, All Star (Kyrie Irving), Mo Williams for Baron Davis

BKY - #6 overall pick, ROY Damian Lillard for Gerald Wallace

OKC - James Harden, Cook, Aldrich, Hayward for Jeremy Lamb, Steven Adams and one season of Kevin Martin.

PHI - Andre Igoudala, Nikola Vucevic, Mo Harkless, 2016 first round pick for Jason Richardson, Andrew Bynum

MIL - Tobias Harris, Doron Lamb, Beno Udrich for Ish Smith, Gustavo Ayon, 3 months of JJ Reddick

LAC and BKY fortunately were able to retain their star PGs in Paul and Williams otherwise they would be stuck with other scrubs and everyone would be saying how each could have had stars Irving and Lillard if it wasn't for these trades.

Vucevic had a breakout season for Orlando and is looking like one of the most promising big men in the game. Harkless also had a fantastic season and is show a lot of potential at the SF spot. Obviously, we all know what happened with Bynum.

No need to really explain the OKC, pretty obvious why its on here. However, should be noted that in their defense, they didn't have a lot of options as they would be risking losing Harden for nothing via free agency next summer if they didn't make the trade with Houston.

Tobias Harris has looked like a player that can be very special with Orlando. Doron Lamb still has some potential. This one looked shaky from the start with them giving up on Harris so fast just to try to push for playoffs with Reddick who they end up letting walk via free agency.

*I'm not saying that these teams were stupid for making the trades at the time. All these trades can be justified when it happened, but in hindsight, it looks bad now.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2013, 11:59 PM
to defend the Clips, they had zero idea that pick would be #1

sunsfan88
08-20-2013, 12:04 AM
to defend the Clips, they had zero idea that pick would be #1

Absolutely correct. Same with Brooklyn, they didn't know for sure if their pick would land outside the top 3 (it was top 3 protected I believe).

This is based entirely on what we know now, rather than when the trades were made.

SportsFanatic10
08-20-2013, 12:08 AM
harden, big mistake. some of the other ones look worse at first glance, but harden is a stud and the clips/nets were already set at pg so who knows who they would've picked. okc lost their chance to be completely dominate for many years to come with that move.

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 12:10 AM
Absolutely correct. Same with Brooklyn, they didn't know for sure if their pick would land outside the top 3 (it was top 3 protected I believe).

This is based entirely on what we know now, rather than when the trades were made.

What we also know is that without the Crash trade, Nets would have had a top 5 pick.

And THEN they could have signed Wallace to that incredibly stupid contract.

5ass
08-20-2013, 12:28 AM
I like how the Magic are on the good side of two of those trades.

JOhnnyTHaJet
08-20-2013, 12:36 AM
Nets took a chance and failed big time, but I think the Thunder blew it the most by not giving Harden an extension. They could have had 3 guys in the top 10-15 players in the league.

sunsfan88
08-20-2013, 12:38 AM
Nets took a chance and failed big time, but I think the Thunder blew it the most by not giving Harden an extension. They could have had 3 guys in the top 10-15 players in the league.

Harden isn't a top 10-15 player, he's a top 6 player in this league.

JOhnnyTHaJet
08-20-2013, 12:40 AM
Harden isn't a top 10-15 player, he's a top 6 player in this league.

Its debatable, thats why I gave it that range.

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 12:50 AM
Nets took a chance and failed big time, but I think the Thunder blew it the most by not giving Harden an extension. They could have had 3 guys in the top 10-15 players in the league.

Money Money Money Money.........Money

Ebbs
08-20-2013, 12:55 AM
I still think the Harden move made sense. They got good value for a player that would've been near impossible to keep.

Got good production out of his replacement.

kobe4thewinbang
08-20-2013, 12:56 AM
I think the Harden trade is the worst. I wouldn't be surprised if OKC did worse next season.

I realize that Andrew Bynum's career may well be over due to his knees, only time will tell, but getting Howard for him without a long term deal was a dumb idea. Bynum when healthy has more offensive skill than Howard and less attitude.

That's how I feel about it. If not that Lakers trade, then the one that landed them Steve Nash. I was stoked at first, but Nash has clearly declined and LA gave up way too much for him.

abe_froman
08-20-2013, 01:20 AM
the clippers

the okc trade looks bad if you ignore that okc had the inability to re-sign harden

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 01:42 AM
Let's not forget the Nets trade for Joe Johnson.

Clippersfan86
08-20-2013, 01:50 AM
the clippers

the okc trade looks bad if you ignore that okc had the inability to re-sign harden

Sure until you learn how NBA contracts work and understand they had every ability to sign Harden :confused::confused:. He was RESTRICTED with BIRD RIGHTS. Meaning the Thunder could pay him the max and the only consequence would be the tax bill considering they were over the cap anyways. Amnesty Perkins and sign Harden to a max and that's only a difference of 3-4 mill a year which is NOTHING when it comes to potentially having a dynasty.

Harden trade is easily the worst of the bunch. Clippers pick had a 1.7 percent chance of being the 1st pick and the trade was pre amnesty, they had no clue they would be able to get rid of Baron who had become a team cancer of sorts. Not to mention the fact that had they kept Baron+pick.. they don't get CP3 in a trade.

Irving is STILL 2-3 years away at LEAST from having CP3's all around impact on games that could elevate the Clippers like CP3 has. I'm not sure he will ever hit that level.

dhopisthename
08-20-2013, 01:59 AM
Sure until you learn how NBA contracts work and understand they had every ability to sign Harden :confused::confused:. He was RESTRICTED with BIRD RIGHTS. Meaning the Thunder could pay him the max and the only consequence would be the tax bill considering they were over the cap anyways. Amnesty Perkins and sign Harden to a max and that's only a difference of 3-4 mill a year which is NOTHING when it comes to potentially having a dynasty.

Harden trade is easily the worst of the bunch. Clippers pick had a 1.7 percent chance of being the 1st pick and the trade was pre amnesty, they had no clue they would be able to get rid of Baron who had become a team cancer of sorts. Not to mention the fact that had they kept Baron+pick.. they don't get CP3 in a trade.

Irving is STILL 2-3 years away at LEAST from having CP3's all around impact on games that could elevate the Clippers like CP3 has. I'm not sure he will ever hit that level.

why not?

sunsfan88
08-20-2013, 02:01 AM
Sure until you learn how NBA contracts work and understand they had every ability to sign Harden :confused::confused:. He was RESTRICTED with BIRD RIGHTS. Meaning the Thunder could pay him the max and the only consequence would be the tax bill considering they were over the cap anyways. Amnesty Perkins and sign Harden to a max and that's only a difference of 3-4 mill a year which is NOTHING when it comes to potentially having a dynasty.



Even if they amnesty Perkins, they would have still been over the cap with Harden on the max deal.

The profit from having Harden doesn't outweigh the tax they would be paying as a small market team in OKC.

dhopisthename
08-20-2013, 02:07 AM
Even if they amnesty Perkins, they would have still been over the cap with Harden on the max deal.

The profit from having Harden doesn't outweigh the tax they would be paying as a small market team in OKC.

plus even though perkins doesn't count towards the cap they still have to pay him

ragee
08-20-2013, 02:10 AM
Brooklyn didn't made a mistake. That was one of the moves that made D-Will stay.

InsightObjSub
08-20-2013, 10:04 AM
The top 3 by far outweigh the others.

1) the Harden trade physically hurts to look at. Like many have stated, the Harden trade is painful bc it once again exposed how a small market team and/or cheap owner can screw its fans. Harden was a restricted agent! What is worst, they had so many options... They could have kept the team intact for another year, they could have amenestied Perkins, heck they could have even signed and traded (with a threat to match contracts as he was restricted!). They could have traded him and Perkins for a package centering around a cheap C/sg combo (solve 2 problems at once - think Barnes, Klay, Rookie deals with an expiring center to offset Perkins contact). Heck even Harden/Perkins for Kaman/VC/Mayo/Collison or Splitter/Leonard (with a 3rd team) or Cousins at the deadline would have been better! The key being creative. At least you get rid of Perkins! All around horrible trade, but I guess Houston thanks you?

2) clippers trade - all the clippers had to do was make the trade top 3 or 5 protected.. which happens ALL the time! Do you think the cavs were thinking they were going to get the #1 or that would be the deal killer? No. Hence all they had to do was protect themselves for the freak chance they got a top 3 pick.

3) the nets trade - I hate the arguments defending this trade. Do you really think this dumb trade made that much of an impact of DWill staying? If so, DWill is a dumb.. but then again he approved the JJ trade so.. Either way, the Nets were punked. Like many have mentioned when Deron hit free agency, all the nets had to do was immediately promise to sign Deron and JJ, which they could have probably signed for better rates without losing a pick. There is no way renting and watching Wallace suck for 3-4 months was that essentially in signing Deron long term no matter how much Nets stress it. Do fans (prosportsdaily) understand that NBA team/players lie to protect face?

rocket
08-20-2013, 10:27 AM
It's OKC and it shouldn't even be close. Lol @ people saying they couldn't sign him. You can sign any player in the NBA you just have to make other moves to clear up space for him and they didn't because they thought he wouldn't have made a big difference if he wasn't with the team.

Kobe2324
08-20-2013, 10:52 AM
Harden isn't a top 10-15 player, he's a top 6 player in this league.

disagree here def not top 10 I could justify top 15 though, potential is their for sure, not trying to take anything away from him, just dont think i can put him top 10 yet but it wont be too long im sure.

koreancabbage
08-20-2013, 11:00 AM
disagree here def not top 10 I could justify top 15 though, potential is their for sure, not trying to take anything away from him, just dont think i can put him top 10 yet but it wont be too long im sure.

How is he not top 10 if he is putting up all-star and great all-round numbers and led the team to the playoffs? and being the arguably 1st or 2nd best SG in the league - depending on how where you have Kobe as being on the downside of his career soon / or the upside of Harden's career.

I really want to see who is in your top 10...

Clippersfan86
08-20-2013, 11:05 AM
Even if they amnesty Perkins, they would have still been over the cap with Harden on the max deal.

The profit from having Harden doesn't outweigh the tax they would be paying as a small market team in OKC.

Um they are like 16 mill over cap now, what does it matter? Which contender ISN'T far over the cap lol? If the team cares about winning you bet your *** the profit of having Harden outweighs a tax increase. I don't feel sorry for OKC and the small market thing because they have one of the best crowds in the entire league and plenty of local support. They aren't going to struggle that bad. In fact Harden was a huge part of the economy there and when he left the city took a hit. I remember some guy had his business logo as James Harden's beard.

Clippersfan86
08-20-2013, 11:19 AM
why not?

So you would draft Kyrie and trade for CP3 anyways? I suppose Kanter or Val would have been a great pick with hindsight but at that time most teams would have picked Kyrie.

todu82
08-20-2013, 11:21 AM
The Thunder trade. Trading Harden possibly set that franchise back quite a ways and might prevent them from winning a NBA title.

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 11:50 AM
Brooklyn didn't made a mistake. That was one of the moves that made D-Will stay.

Deron was going nowhere. He bluffed Billy King into two horrific trades.

Chronz
08-20-2013, 11:59 AM
why not?

So you would draft Kyrie and trade for CP3 anyways?
Obviously . Keep the added assets as well

Chronz
08-20-2013, 12:00 PM
The top 3 by far outweigh the others.

1) the Harden trade physically hurts to look at. Like many have stated, the Harden trade is painful bc it once again exposed how a small market team and/or cheap owner can screw its fans. Harden was a restricted agent! What is worst, they had so many options... They could have kept the team intact for another year, they could have amenestied Perkins, heck they could have even signed and traded (with a threat to match contracts as he was restricted!). They could have traded him and Perkins for a package centering around a cheap C/sg combo (solve 2 problems at once - think Barnes, Klay, Rookie deals with an expiring center to offset Perkins contact). Heck even Harden/Perkins for Kaman/VC/Mayo/Collison or Splitter/Leonard (with a 3rd team) or Cousins at the deadline would have been better! The key being creative. At least you get rid of Perkins! All around horrible trade, but I guess Houston thanks you?

2) clippers trade - all the clippers had to do was make the trade top 3 or 5 protected.. which happens ALL the time! Do you think the cavs were thinking they were going to get the #1 or that would be the deal killer? No. Hence all they had to do was protect themselves for the freak chance they got a top 3 pick.

3) the nets trade - I hate the arguments defending this trade. Do you really think this dumb trade made that much of an impact of DWill staying? If so, DWill is a dumb.. but then again he approved the JJ trade so.. Either way, the Nets were punked. Like many have mentioned when Deron hit free agency, all the nets had to do was immediately promise to sign Deron and JJ, which they could have probably signed for better rates without losing a pick. There is no way renting and watching Wallace suck for 3-4 months was that essentially in signing Deron long term no matter how much Nets stress it. Do fans (prosportsdaily) understand that NBA team/players lie to protect face?
Ur wrong, clips couldn't protect the pick

TheNumber37
08-20-2013, 12:06 PM
easily the Harden trade because their had to be.better deals on the tables. they. could have traded harden for a.starting PG. Westbrook needs to play the 2!

valade16
08-20-2013, 12:19 PM
Even if they amnesty Perkins, they would have still been over the cap with Harden on the max deal.

The profit from having Harden doesn't outweigh the tax they would be paying as a small market team in OKC.

Are people factoring in any potential increased revenue that would come from winning multiple NBA titles?

That's what I don't get, people act like OKC's earning potential is static, however it is very fluid and there is generally a correlation between success/championships and increased revenue.

I think had the Thunder won a couple championships in the next few years battling with the Heat (thereby possibly starting an 80's Lakers/Celtics level feud) they would have more than made up for any short term financial hardships that came with having 3 superstar level players...

faze38
08-20-2013, 12:22 PM
To me it has to be the Philly deal they gave up 2 first rounders and decent big man for nothing but Jason Richardson they didn't even get a season out of Bynum. I mean Harkless didn't even get a chance to play for Philly so as bad as the OKC deal was they at least got K-Mart for a year, a young scorer in Lamb who is yet to prove what he can do and 2 first rounders! The Clippers deal was bad but in the end getting rid of BD's contract helped them get CP3. The BK deal wasn't great either but PG wasn't a position of need for the Nets so they wouldn't have even took Lillard or he would have been playing spurt minutes so to me the Clippers and Nets deal shouldn't even be on this list! The Bucks got rid of players that were sitting on the bench so even tho they are starting to look good they werent getting any time.

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 12:23 PM
Ur wrong, clips couldn't protect the pick

Why?

MonroeFAN
08-20-2013, 12:32 PM
I think OKC is the answer that jumps out immediately, but I have to go with Either Milwaulkee trading harris and pieces, or Phili.

Orlando put together a nice young roster without doing much.

Chronz
08-20-2013, 12:56 PM
Why?


Some complicated BS about the Ted Stepien rule. All I know is that we couldn't have gotten rid of Baron without that pick (Cleveland would not take a more complex offer centered around a delayed pick or some bull) and we had no reason to value it that highly, if it were as simple as simply lottery protecting it, Im sure we would have done so. I know everyone likes to think of Sterling as some bumbling idiot but a blunder of this proportion is the stuff of cartoons

rhino17
08-20-2013, 01:00 PM
The harden trade was the worst, okc could have had 3 of the top 10 players in the nba and ****ed it up

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 01:02 PM
Some complicated BS about the Ted Stepien rule. All I know is that we couldn't have gotten rid of Baron without that pick and we had no reason to value it that highly, if it were as simple as simply lottery protecting it, Im sure we would have done so. I know everyone likes to think of Sterling as some bumbling idiot but a blunder of this proportion is the stuff of cartoons

So pick could have been protected

dhopisthename
08-20-2013, 01:12 PM
So you would draft Kyrie and trade for CP3 anyways? I suppose Kanter or Val would have been a great pick with hindsight but at that time most teams would have picked Kyrie.

or trade the #1 pick for paul instead and keep gordon.

colinskik
08-20-2013, 01:21 PM
I'm going with Philly on this one.

They gave up a great C in Vucevic who will surely improve this season and in the future for a perpetually injured C who didn't even play one game for them. Plus they lost Harkless who shows a lot of promise. Imagine the 6ers with those two guys added to their core now...

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 01:27 PM
I'm going with Philly on this one.

They gave up a great C in Vucevic who will surely improve this season and in the future for a perpetually injured C who didn't even play one game for them. Plus they lost Harkless who shows a lot of promise. Imagine the 6ers with those two guys added to their core now...

Sixers gave up Iggy in that trade also

nycericanguy
08-20-2013, 01:45 PM
The Harden trade was bad, but it made SOME sense given the circumstances. Lamb was a great prospect, and the TOR pick could have been a top 5 pick.

The two trades that made ZERO sense now or at the time to me is MIL trading for Reddick, and the Nets trading for a guy they could have just signed outright... just for the chance to "talk" to him a couple months more.

Bucks already had Ellis & Jennings to worry about resigning, why add a 3rd one dimensional FA guard? And oh yea they also went after Mayo & JR? It's an odd situation over there, they want every undersized chucker that is ever available it seems.

PHI also I thought was a horrendous trade from day 1. I could understand a team that thinks they are 1 piece away from a title having taken a chance on Bynum, but PHI wanted to build around Jrue & Bynum... that ludicrous. did anyone really think they would get more than 40 games at best from Bynum? They could have gotten a nice package for Iggy, and with Harkless & Vucevic and Jrue... that's a nice core. Guys like Young & Turner also solid players. Now they are in 100% rebuild mode.

mrblisterdundee
08-20-2013, 02:50 PM
With what we know in mind, I'd say the Los Angeles trade was the worst. Kyrie Irving would have allowed the Clippers to forego pursuing Chris Paul and opened up a lot more cap space.
Oklahoma City knew what it was giving up and admitted readily that it was a financial decision. That said, they've still regressed significantly from where they were with Harden.

Trueblue2
08-20-2013, 03:03 PM
Sure until you learn how NBA contracts work and understand they had every ability to sign Harden :confused::confused:. He was RESTRICTED with BIRD RIGHTS. Meaning the Thunder could pay him the max and the only consequence would be the tax bill considering they were over the cap anyways. Amnesty Perkins and sign Harden to a max and that's only a difference of 3-4 mill a year which is NOTHING when it comes to potentially having a dynasty.

Harden trade is easily the worst of the bunch. Clippers pick had a 1.7 percent chance of being the 1st pick and the trade was pre amnesty, they had no clue they would be able to get rid of Baron who had become a team cancer of sorts. Not to mention the fact that had they kept Baron+pick.. they don't get CP3 in a trade.

Irving is STILL 2-3 years away at LEAST from having CP3's all around impact on games that could elevate the Clippers like CP3 has. I'm not sure he will ever hit that level.

But make the pick protected and they trade irving to nola instead of gordon and maybe aminu too and then they have.

Cp3
Gordon
Aminu
Blake
Jordan

It wasnt that big of a deal, but they could have been better off.

JasonJohnHorn
08-20-2013, 03:09 PM
The Clippers trade is unfair... they had every reason to expect the pick would be after the tenth slot. That was just rigged to help the Cavs out after losing LBJ ;-)

The OKC trade was a good trade in terms of money and talent. The problem was that they let Kevin Martin Walk. We have yet to see what becomes of the trade as we don't know how Steven Adams will turn out, or Lamb for that matter (though I'm not holding out much hope for him). If Adams turns into a legit starting C that can defend and throw in a double-double, that may be more of what OKC needed than Harden (there is only one ball to go around, and the Thunder already have Durant and Westy).

The BK trade was fine. They wouldn't have picked Lillard at #6 anyways because they already have D-Will and the Wallace trade helped them land Garnett and Paul Pierce and Terry... so this may yet work out in their favour.

The Reddick trade was all about clear cap space and dumping contracts. It's not like the Bucks gave up any pieces there.

That leave the Philly/ORL/Denver/LAL trade which is easily the worst trade in the last couple of years. EVERY team is worse because of it. Denver did have their best season, but they lost Iggy to GSW, otherwise it was a good trade for Denver. Philly got an injured player and gave up on him and Orlando has the worst record in the league after making the playoffs. So yeah... nobody got better. It is seldom that three teams make a trade and each team goes into the following season looking like they will be worse than they were the year before. Philly, LAL and DEN all lost the players they traded for to free agency, and Orlando just got worse even if they picked up a couple nice pieces.


As for trade draft picks... you never know who those picks are going to be or where they will be picked from. LAC for example needed to dump a contract. They did that. No reason to expect that they'd get the first pick. No reason to knock that trade because of a fluke. And there is no reason to knock the Nets because they had now way of knowing who was declaring for the draft and who would be available when they were picked at 6. Wallace was a good player and better than most players from that draft was a nice trade piece. The Net may have just as easily picked Terrance Ross or Austin Rivers and been in worse shape... or Harrison Barnes or Andre Drummond and been in better shape... who knows. The draft is always a gamble... trading for a vet is a much better risk because you've seen how they play (though the drop-off Wallace had was certainyl not to be expected).

JasonJohnHorn
08-20-2013, 04:00 PM
With what we know in mind, I'd say the Los Angeles trade was the worst. Kyrie Irving would have allowed the Clippers to forego pursuing Chris Paul and opened up a lot more cap space.
Oklahoma City knew what it was giving up and admitted readily that it was a financial decision. That said, they've still regressed significantly from where they were with Harden.

Firstly, there would be no huge cap-space WITHOUT the Davis trade... his contract would have JUST expired THIS season... the Cavs used the amnesty on him. The entire purpose of giving up that pic was to dump the contract.

Secondly, the Clippers are FAR better with CP3 than they would be with Irving (even if the window is shorter). Irving is not the play maker that CP3 is and so wouldn't be able to get guys like BG and DJ involved the way CP3 does. The Clippers had a HUGE turnaround when they added CP3. No way they would have won the division this year without him. The trade wasn't that great, but it save the Clippers a lot of money.

Clippersfan86
08-20-2013, 04:19 PM
or trade the #1 pick for paul instead and keep gordon.

If Gordon could stay healthy I'd love that but given the outcome, I can't say I'm upset about how it's turned out nor regretful for the team. The only thing I'm upset about is us not drafting Paul George or Gordon Hayward. I didn't even watch college ball really and KNEW that those two were far superior than Aminu.

Clippersfan86
08-20-2013, 04:20 PM
How is Philly barely getting any votes? Easily the 2nd worst trade considering they have up two great prospects who have all star potential and now have washed up J Rich to show for it.

TheMightyHumph
08-20-2013, 04:25 PM
Firstly, there would be no huge cap-space WITHOUT the Davis trade... his contract would have JUST expired THIS season... the Cavs used the amnesty on him. The entire purpose of giving up that pic was to dump the contract.

Secondly, the Clippers are FAR better with CP3 than they would be with Irving (even if the window is shorter). Irving is not the play maker that CP3 is and so wouldn't be able to get guys like BG and DJ involved the way CP3 does. The Clippers had a HUGE turnaround when they added CP3. No way they would have won the division this year without him. The trade wasn't that great, but it save the Clippers a lot of money.

Clippers would have amnestied Baron.

rhymeratic
08-20-2013, 04:26 PM
Glad nobody tried to be a homer and put Knicks trade for Bargnani which is a steal!

Kashmir13579
08-20-2013, 04:27 PM
I like how the Magic are on the good side of two of those trades.

The Magic quietly owned the NBA in their recent dealings.

Lakers Ghost
08-20-2013, 04:43 PM
Harden isn't a top 10-15 player, he's a top 6 player in this league.

depends on how you rate him, I have him at 9 best player currently playing in the nba

Cracka2HI!
08-20-2013, 05:22 PM
Many of you are very uninformed about the Clippers trade. It was a GREAT trade and while it turned out to have one of the unluckiest results in sports history they would probably have the exact same team by now with or without the trade. There was no amnesty when the deal was made, so can that talk. They couldn't protect the pick because they had already traded a future pick, you can't protect 2 future picks genisus'. Even had they been able to protect it and got the 1st pick which they wouldn't have becaues the lotto was rigged for the Cavs and to make Sterling look dumb yet again but just assume they did. The pick gets traded in the CP3 trade anyway and the Clipps keep Gordon. Gordon asks for a stupid contract and the Clipps have to let him walk to max Griffin and Paul anyway. Maybe the Clippers still have Aminu or some Gordon S&T parts, parts that would probably look a lot like JJ Reddick and Jared Dudley.

Thunder trade is by far the worst IMO.

Chronz
08-20-2013, 05:25 PM
So pick could have been protected
Not if you were trying to trade it

jkcronyn
08-20-2013, 05:29 PM
Trade Westbrook for Rondo instead of Harden for nothing and you'd have one of the most ridiculous backcourts

DreamShaker
08-20-2013, 06:38 PM
Honestly I think it's Harris for JJ. That never made any sense, as an 8th seed should never trade a promising young player for a role player who is about to be a free agent. That was silly. If Jeremy Lamb turns out to be the answer at 2 guard for OKC, it is not bad. He's no Harden, but he could be a true fit with Durant and Westbrook at a cheap price. But, then again, amnesty Perkins and we aren't having this discussion....

sunsfan88
08-20-2013, 08:05 PM
Are people factoring in any potential increased revenue that would come from winning multiple NBA titles?

That's what I don't get, people act like OKC's earning potential is static, however it is very fluid and there is generally a correlation between success/championships and increased revenue.

I think had the Thunder won a couple championships in the next few years battling with the Heat (thereby possibly starting an 80's Lakers/Celtics level feud) they would have more than made up for any short term financial hardships that came with having 3 superstar level players...

No it wouldn't. OKC already has die hard fans, I don't think more fans would start coming to their games or a lot more fans would start buying their merchandise if they won titles...their fans already do all that.

Maybe they would get more media attention but that's it.

sunsfan88
08-20-2013, 08:12 PM
disagree here def not top 10 I could justify top 15 though, potential is their for sure, not trying to take anything away from him, just dont think i can put him top 10 yet but it wont be too long im sure.
You don't think you can put him in top 10?

Other than LeBron, Durant, CP3, Melo, Dwight, who is all better than him?

And even if you include Kobe, Wade, Love, Rose when healthy, he's still a top 10 player.

JasonJohnHorn
08-20-2013, 08:21 PM
Clippers would have amnestied Baron.

When they traded him, there was no amnesty provision, so that wasn't an option at the time. Also, that would mean they'd still have to pay him (even if it didn't count against the cap) and the Clippers ownership is AMAZINGLY cheap... the purpose of that trade was to shed a contract.

nycericanguy
08-20-2013, 09:41 PM
Bucks gave up a 20 year old Tobias Harris who went on to average 17 & 9 for ORL, for a couple of months of Reddick.

Ridiculous trade...

cubs1st
08-20-2013, 10:16 PM
Amnesty Perkins, or include him in the Harden trade.

All-In
08-20-2013, 11:35 PM
Unless Steven Adams or Jeremy Lamb turn out to be solid players…the Harden trade is one of the worst in league history

WITZ
08-21-2013, 12:15 AM
Not if you were trying to trade it

Yea they could have protected it. Neil Olshey only said that putting top 3 protection on it would have caused the cavs to back out of the deal nothing about a stepien rule not allowing them to protect the pick.

joshhorvath
08-21-2013, 12:43 AM
Glad nobody tried to be a homer and put Knicks trade for Bargnani which is a steal!

lmao! how is trading for Bargnani a steal?! what, he'll do some Primo Pasta advertising for free outside MSG.. thats a pretty good steal of a trade. But Bargnani, Toronto tried everything with him, played him with Bosh, built around him, tried him off the bench, 6th man etc... just anything to get this highly under performing injury prone bust of a #1 draft pick to actually try, show some heart.. and maybe try and avg more then 4 RPG, ****ing 7ft tall and hes a wimp, he's lost his touch at the 3, and cant really do much else.

He's a liablity on D, he cant rebound, doesnt drive to the basket and the only thing he can do 3's.. hes only a career 36% shooter.

explain how after 7 failed years in Toronto, he can magically turn into a steal.

Reminder.. You gave up two 2nds and a 1st and 3 point specialist Steve Novak.. and you're saying aquiring Bargnani and his horrendous contract was a steal. i really need to know why.

TrueFan420
08-21-2013, 03:58 AM
Philly also lost iggy in that deal as well

kblo247
08-21-2013, 04:45 AM
Harden as long as they could amnesty Perk, its harden

eso
08-21-2013, 08:09 AM
lmao! how is trading for Bargnani a steal?! what, he'll do some Primo Pasta advertising for free outside MSG.. thats a pretty good steal of a trade. But Bargnani, Toronto tried everything with him, played him with Bosh, built around him, tried him off the bench, 6th man etc... just anything to get this highly under performing injury prone bust of a #1 draft pick to actually try, show some heart.. and maybe try and avg more then 4 RPG, ****ing 7ft tall and hes a wimp, he's lost his touch at the 3, and cant really do much else.

He's a liablity on D, he cant rebound, doesnt drive to the basket and the only thing he can do 3's.. hes only a career 36% shooter.

explain how after 7 failed years in Toronto, he can magically turn into a steal.

Reminder.. You gave up two 2nds and a 1st and 3 point specialist Steve Novak.. and you're saying aquiring Bargnani and his horrendous contract was a steal. i really need to know why.

I'm a little bit confused, do you think Bargs is a good player or not??? Hahahaha

SeoulBeatz
08-21-2013, 08:18 AM
How is Philly barely getting any votes? Easily the 2nd worst trade considering they have up two great prospects who have all star potential and now have washed up J Rich to show for it.

I'm a little puzzled by that as well, that trade FORCED us into rebuilding when we thought it would lead us into contention.

Andre Iguodala, Nikola Vucevic, Moe Harkless, and a 1st Round Pick for NOTHING.

Jason Richardson is still recovering from a knee injury (I'd honestly be surprised if he played another game for the Sixers) and obviously Bynum never suited up.

We traded all those pieces for LITERALLY nothing.

That was the trade when it was all said and done.

how is that not getting more votes??

Rockice_8
08-21-2013, 08:42 AM
I mean this is easily OKC. They gave up a top 10 NBA player who hasn't even entered his prime for a rental of a bench player. Lamb better become something good or this doesn't just become a recent horrible trade it becomes an all time mistake.

faze38
08-21-2013, 09:47 AM
Sixers gave up Iggy in that trade also

Aint that the truth I mean this is clear cut the worst deal on the board they gave up youth and their best player the guy is missing so many parts of that deal it's not even funny

faze38
08-21-2013, 09:49 AM
LAC - #1 overall pick, ROY, All Star (Kyrie Irving), Mo Williams for Baron Davis

BKY - #6 overall pick, ROY Damian Lillard for Gerald Wallace

OKC - James Harden, Cook, Aldrich, Hayward for Jeremy Lamb, Steven Adams and one season of Kevin Martin.

PHI - Nikola Vucevic, Mo Harkless, 2016 first round pick for Jason Richardson, Andrew Bynum

MIL - Tobias Harris, Doron Lamb, Beno Udrich for Ish Smith, Gustavo Ayon, 3 months of JJ Reddick

LAC and BKY fortunately were able to retain their star PGs in Paul and Williams otherwise they would be stuck with other scrubs and everyone would be saying how each could have had stars Irving and Lillard if it wasn't for these trades.

Vucevic had a breakout season for Orlando and is looking like one of the most promising big men in the game. Harkless also had a fantastic season and is show a lot of potential at the SF spot. Obviously, we all know what happened with Bynum.

No need to really explain the OKC, pretty obvious why its on here. However, should be noted that in their defense, they didn't have a lot of options as they would be risking losing Harden for nothing via free agency next summer if they didn't make the trade with Houston.

Tobias Harris has looked like a player that can be very special with Orlando. Doron Lamb still has some potential. This one looked shaky from the start with them giving up on Harris so fast just to try to push for playoffs with Reddick who they end up letting walk via free agency.

*I'm not saying that these teams were stupid for making the trades at the time. All these trades can be justified when it happened, but in hindsight, it looks bad now.

You should put in the other parts to the Philly deal your missing the fact that they also gave up Iggy.

faze38
08-21-2013, 10:06 AM
I mean this is easily OKC. They gave up a top 10 NBA player who hasn't even entered his prime for a rental of a bench player. Lamb better become something good or this doesn't just become a recent horrible trade it becomes an all time mistake.

Damn if Harden is a top 10 player where does that put Stephen Curry? In my eyes he is nothing more then a taller Steph with less pure passing ability! I think Some people just throw people to the top after one year without giving teams a year to game plan against them. People need to ease up with this top 10 stuff. James has the potential to be a top 10 player but he needs to sure up that D and show that he can carry his team in the playoffs without a KD or Westbrook around before we say that.

monty77
08-21-2013, 10:11 AM
When this trades were executed, there were teams which don't know which potential this younger players had or the potential of the draft picks they included in the trade. Maybe they only wish to clear some space room and take desperate decisions, or maybe they believed that they were getting a star player who finally failed. But all of these are maddening trades.

Maybe these teams believe that Baron Davis, Gerald Wallace and Andrew Bynum could contribute properly to make them a better team, we cannot blame them because everybody thought it. But they underestimate their draft pick choices and and they miss players like Irving, Lillard and Vucevic respectively.

I don't know if was likely that the draft pick choice became a number 1 pick when Cavs got it, but I think that he is the worst trade of three above-mentioned. I don't know if 76ers were aware of Bynum's injury either, but trade Vucevic was a big mistake. I think that Vucevic will be better player than Bynum even if the last one keeps healthy. Gerald Wallace in exchange for 6 overall pick is forgivable, it's odd that a player such as Lillard wasn't a top 3 draft pick.

Otherwise, Oklahoma City Thunders only want to save money when they trade Harden to Houston. They got some young players such as Jeremy Lamb and pick Steve Adams, so they obtain their target. It was difficult to guess that Harden would be a superstar as soon.

Finally, Bucks lost a younger player such as Tobias Harris, who performed very well this year and has a high ceiling, and a decent player such as Udrich for the option to try to presuade to JJ for an extension. This didn't work, bad luck! But this isn't as bad trade as above, even more if we take account that they signed OJ Mayo.

Clippersfan86
08-21-2013, 12:51 PM
I'm a little puzzled by that as well, that trade FORCED us into rebuilding when we thought it would lead us into contention.

Andre Iguodala, Nikola Vucevic, Moe Harkless, and a 1st Round Pick for NOTHING.

Jason Richardson is still recovering from a knee injury (I'd honestly be surprised if he played another game for the Sixers) and obviously Bynum never suited up.

We traded all those pieces for LITERALLY nothing.

That was the trade when it was all said and done.

how is that not getting more votes??

I hope this isn't sarcasm because it seems like a great, honest post. I mean long term maybe this "tanking" will be good for you guys but judging the actual trade.. Philly got screwed so bad. They gave up their entire stash of valuable pieces pretty much to end up with soon to retire J Rich. When you actually break it down the Philly deal MAY just be worse than the OKC one. Yet the Clippers are winning the poll because people don't understand how the trade system works and because well.. it's the Clippers and people don't like them.

faze38
08-21-2013, 01:13 PM
I hope this isn't sarcasm because it seems like a great, honest post. I mean long term maybe this "tanking" will be good for you guys but judging the actual trade.. Philly got screwed so bad. They gave up their entire stash of valuable pieces pretty much to end up with soon to retire J Rich. When you actually break it down the Philly deal MAY just be worse than the OKC one. Yet the Clippers are winning the poll because people don't understand how the trade system works and because well.. it's the Clippers and people don't like them.

That and the guy didn't add Iggy to the lost assets in the deal. I mean it's as if the guy forgot that the 76ers gave one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA!

JLynn943
08-21-2013, 01:13 PM
The Harden trade was awful, but the Philly one gets my vote. Give up basically everything for nothing but a couple of injured players, one of which is gone and the other is potentially missing this entire upcoming season and is just occupying cap space. Terrible trade. The only way to defend it is that I don't know if anyone expected the result to be as bad as it was.

faze38
08-21-2013, 01:26 PM
I mean I think to many people are over rating the Harden trade right now! The kids is good really good but OKC still was one of the top teams in the NBA even without him on top of that they added assets. The team lost a great player but replaced him with youth and picks and Lamb looked good in summer league but just didn't get the chance to play on the stacked OKC squad. This year he will get some time. On the other side the 76ers were awful this year and the team that got Iggy only improved to the 3rd best team in the west with him in tow. To me it's a no brainer 76ers trade is one of the worst in the last 10-15 years forget 2. I mean if Bynum and Richardson actually played I might be saying something completely different but last time I checked 50% of a players production is a hell of a lot better then getting nothing in return!

nycericanguy
08-21-2013, 02:17 PM
I'm a little puzzled by that as well, that trade FORCED us into rebuilding when we thought it would lead us into contention.

Andre Iguodala, Nikola Vucevic, Moe Harkless, and a 1st Round Pick for NOTHING.

Jason Richardson is still recovering from a knee injury (I'd honestly be surprised if he played another game for the Sixers) and obviously Bynum never suited up.

We traded all those pieces for LITERALLY nothing.

That was the trade when it was all said and done.

how is that not getting more votes??

Agreed, I mean a lot of PHI fans will justify the trade by saying they needed to move on from Iggy anyway, but consider that GSW wanted Iggy badly enough to give up 2 unprotected 1st rounders, and to renounce Jaret Jack & Landry.

So I agree PHI had to move on from the Iggy era, but they could have gotten a nice package for him alone, and kept Nic, Harkless and their pick.

The Harden trade, well Adams could turn into a solid starting C and Lamb a solid starting SG, hard to judge that trade right now.

topdog
08-21-2013, 07:14 PM
I know that the gut reaction is to say OKC because Harden blew up and it's the popular thing to do right now (bash the trade... which incidentally the popular thing to do just before that was to praise Presti as the 2nd coming). To be fair, we don't know how Lamb or Adams are going to turn out yet.

Nets and Clippers have done just fine as far as they are concerned and the pingpong balls are just so fickle. For me, it's the Bucks because Reddick had been signaling interest before the trade in signing for a contender (which Milwaukee is and was not) and Harris was not only a heck of a deal for a few more years but also a fan favorite as I understand it and was looking like one of the better potential guys on that team.

sunsfan88
08-22-2013, 08:23 AM
I'm surprised Brooklyn's trade hasn't gotten more votes.

I guess enough people don't know about Damian Lillard yet.

mdm692
08-22-2013, 05:17 PM
I still think the Harden move made sense. They got good value for a player that would've been near impossible to keep.

Got good production out of his replacement.

How so? They coulda amnestied Perkins and go after Oden and draft a C.

RW
Harden
KD
Ibaka
Oden

Bigbadmoffo
08-22-2013, 05:43 PM
Glad nobody tried to be a homer and put Knicks trade for Bargnani which is a steal!

That 2016 pick could still haunt them. Denver is on the decline in my opinion and if the Knicks lose Carmelo to free agency both those teams could flop in 2016. If Bargs continues to not care and decline Toronto could walk away with a nice dump. If Bargs plays to potential and the Knicks keep Carmelo the trade will be a steal but at the end of the day Bargs still had no value and sucked as a Raptor so it's win win for them.

sunsfan88
08-22-2013, 07:38 PM
How so? They coulda amnestied Perkins and go after Oden and draft a C.

RW
Harden
KD
Ibaka
Oden
Thy still wouldn't be able to afford Harden even after amnestying Perkins though.

topdog
08-22-2013, 09:16 PM
I'm surprised Brooklyn's trade hasn't gotten more votes.

I guess enough people don't know about Damian Lillard yet.

You mean Marcus Thornton 2.0?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=thornma01&y1=2010&p2=lillada01&y2=2013

ohreally
08-22-2013, 09:29 PM
Let's not forget the Nets trade for Joe Johnson.

Signing Johnson led to Williams resigning.

Nets would most likely not have picked Lillard anyway, so it's a different conversation, and Wallace, together with Hump, led to Garnett, Pierce, Terry, and Kirilenko, which is a Net positive or a lot of reasons.

Harden trade is thw wort, since even if they had to do it, OKC could have done a lot better.

Tony_Starks
08-22-2013, 09:37 PM
I actually thought the Perkins trade was worse for both teams. Green was still too young to give up on a couldve been kept for a reasonable price. Or at minimum got back a better player or picks.

Then for Boston it basically sent the message they were in rebuild mode and totally screwed up the chemistry...

sunsfan88
08-22-2013, 09:52 PM
You mean Marcus Thornton 2.0?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=thornma01&y1=2010&p2=lillada01&y2=2013
Lol Lillard is better than Thornton. Better PPG, better assist numbers, can drive to the rim not just shoot etc. Plus he's way more of a PG than Thornton will ever be.

topdog
08-24-2013, 07:58 PM
Lol Lillard is better than Thornton. Better PPG, better assist numbers, can drive to the rim not just shoot etc. Plus he's way more of a PG than Thornton will ever be.

Lillard scored mores points, but took more shots and did so less efficiently. Per 36, Thornton's stats go up and Lillard's go down. They had the same defensive rating but Thornton was 3 pts better in offensive rating. Thornton had fewer assists but also half as many turnovers, more rebounds, ect. Obviously, there is a different context to how each played their rookie year, but Lillard very much reminds me of Thornton. Feel free to disagree.

rlendensky
08-24-2013, 08:12 PM
Really really tough call between Harden and Kyrie.

THE MTL
08-24-2013, 08:37 PM
Man philly got raped. They lost a great veteran defender with great value, young promising big man who averaged a double double, and a 2016 pick.

But overall that Dwight Howard was the worst trade of all time in my opinion. Every team involved got worse! And whats really sad is Orlando Magic in the end won that trade lol

TheMightyHumph
08-24-2013, 08:40 PM
Signing Johnson led to Williams resigning.

Nets would most likely not have picked Lillard anyway, so it's a different conversation, and Wallace, together with Hump, led to Garnett, Pierce, Terry, and Kirilenko, which is a Net positive or a lot of reasons.

Harden trade is thw wort, since even if they had to do it, OKC could have done a lot better.

Deron was going nowhere.

Nets were had the advantage, as Hawks would have done anything to dump JJ. King allowed Nets to get raped.

And Lillard was involved in the trade for Gerald Wallace. If the Nets hadn't traded for GW, they would have finished with a worse record, and got a better pick (possibly the #1 pick) and still signed GW.

King is still going for rape counselling.

sunsfan88
08-27-2013, 12:15 AM
Deron was going nowhere.

Nets were had the advantage, as Hawks would have done anything to dump JJ. King allowed Nets to get raped.

And Lillard was involved in the trade for Gerald Wallace. If the Nets hadn't traded for GW, they would have finished with a worse record, and got a better pick (possibly the #1 pick) and still signed GW.

King is still going for rape counselling.
LOL. He needs to be replaced. If the Pierce, Garnett, JJ, retirement house thing busts then expect King to get fired asap.

RiceOnTheRun
08-27-2013, 03:48 AM
Even if they amnesty Perkins, they would have still been over the cap with Harden on the max deal.

The profit from having Harden doesn't outweigh the tax they would be paying as a small market team in OKC.

Their owners are loaded. You're acting as if they were Brooklyn looking to pay 80m in tax.

I'm pretty sure a good 90% of owners, small market teams included, in the league wouldn't have batted an eye at dishing out an extra 5-10m to keep a potential dynasty together.

All-In
08-27-2013, 04:59 AM
I mean I think to many people are over rating the Harden trade right now! The kids is good really good but OKC still was one of the top teams in the NBA even without him on top of that they added assets. The team lost a great player but replaced him with youth and picks and Lamb looked good in summer league but just didn't get the chance to play on the stacked OKC squad. This year he will get some time. On the other side the 76ers were awful this year and the team that got Iggy only improved to the 3rd best team in the west with him in tow. To me it's a no brainer 76ers trade is one of the worst in the last 10-15 years forget 2. I mean if Bynum and Richardson actually played I might be saying something completely different but last time I checked 50% of a players production is a hell of a lot better then getting nothing in return!

I agree Philly's trade is one of the worst in recent memory but Philly’s goal this year is to bottom out and tank…OKC’s goal is to win a championship…Philly gave up a lot for nothing but there not losing sleep over it….OKC is having insomnia over the Harden trade…if Philly doesn’t make that trade there a playoff contender(maybe)…if OKC doesn’t make that trade there a title contender

Ballperiodicals
08-28-2013, 11:54 AM
what about the Rudy gay trade ? that was bad one

TheMightyHumph
08-28-2013, 12:48 PM
what about the Rudy gay trade ? that was bad one

For who?

sunsfan88
08-30-2013, 03:43 AM
Their owners are loaded. You're acting as if they were Brooklyn looking to pay 80m in tax.

I'm pretty sure a good 90% of owners, small market teams included, in the league wouldn't have batted an eye at dishing out an extra 5-10m to keep a potential dynasty together.
Its not just an extra 5-10M. With the new CBA, luxury tax penalties are going to be very harsh going forward.

KingstonHawke
08-30-2013, 04:13 AM
Can't use hindsight when evaluating trades. Have to look at it in the context of what you gave up and got in return strictly.

So instead of saying the Thunder got Adams, it's the Thunder got the Raptors 1st round pick. Because that pick would've been even more valuable if Smart and Saric would've come out how they should have.

SugeKnight
08-30-2013, 04:21 AM
You mean Marcus Thornton 2.0?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=thornma01&y1=2010&p2=lillada01&y2=2013

Not similar at all