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Sssmush
08-15-2013, 04:25 PM
And so it begins...

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/15/olajuwon-describes-dwight-howard-as-very-raw/

sunsfan88
08-15-2013, 04:34 PM
At 28 years old, that's probably not a compliment for Dwight...

Htownballa1622
08-15-2013, 04:39 PM
lol. Way to take just THAT part of it.

Here's the full quote.

“As good as he is right now, he’s still very raw. But he has all the tools so I’m like a kid in a candy store. That’s why we give him the fundamentals of these moves. There’s a rhythm. And once he sees it, then it’s easier to emulate and then incorporate with power. He has the power. Now we’re adding finesse to the power.

“The best big men in the game – they’re game-changers. That’s what he is. And he’s in the right situation where the coach understands it, he demands it, and Dwight can give it.”

Sssmush
08-15-2013, 04:40 PM
December: "Hakeem, do you think the current losing streak is Howard's fault? What is Howard doing wrong and what would you tell him to fix it?"

LoL, yeah, it's not like there's any media people or reporters from Los Angeles that are going to have a few things to say/ask once the season gets underway.

Auseranami
08-15-2013, 04:40 PM
With 10 years of nba experience he's deemed "very raw". That's kind of sad.

Sssmush
08-15-2013, 04:45 PM
lol. Way to take just THAT part of it.

Here's the full quote.

“As good as he is right now, he’s still very raw. But he has all the tools so I’m like a kid in a candy store. That’s why we give him the fundamentals of these moves. There’s a rhythm. And once he sees it, then it’s easier to emulate and then incorporate with power. He has the power. Now we’re adding finesse to the power.

“The best big men in the game – they’re game-changers. That’s what he is. And he’s in the right situation where the coach understands it, he demands it, and Dwight can give it.”


That's like: "Yeah honey, that dress DOES make you look kind of fat. Ummmm, urrrrr... But I mean, wow, you gotta lot of what I want. Yes you got so much curves, you are so beautiful, it's like a candy store. Mmmmmm hmmmmm. Yes I like you just the way you are. And when you walk you just got this sweet rhythm, every thing is perfect. Perfect perfect perfect perfect. Mmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm, none of that boney-azz Kate Upton or Jennifer Lawrence for me. And once you see that, baby, wow then you can incorporate it all with your style. Then your just adding finesse to what you already GOT. That's all I'm saying. The sexiest women, they're game changers, because they're just sexy just how they are, they don't try to change and that makes them even sexier and I know you know how to give that. That's all I'm trying to say, baby, that you are the sexiest woman in the world and I want you just the way you are."

Heatcheck
08-15-2013, 04:45 PM
lol. Way to take just THAT part of it.

Here's the full quote.

“As good as he is right now, he’s still very raw. But he has all the tools so I’m like a kid in a candy store. That’s why we give him the fundamentals of these moves. There’s a rhythm. And once he sees it, then it’s easier to emulate and then incorporate with power. He has the power. Now we’re adding finesse to the power.

“The best big men in the game – they’re game-changers. That’s what he is. And he’s in the right situation where the coach understands it, he demands it, and Dwight can give it.”

and it STILL embarrassing that someone is essentially saying you have all the potential and tools physically, but in the 10 you've been a professional basketball player, you've really haven't improved something that is a product of work and effort. he's half a player offensively, and unless he improves his low post moves, he'll never emulate his orlando numbers considering that team and system was all about howard and his production, im honestly still perplexed as to why he would leave Orlando in the first place unless he really thought he was mr. personality and was going to make X amount of dollars in LA.

kobe4thewinbang
08-15-2013, 04:55 PM
He's very raw because he had a million shooters in Orlando, and he would mostly just dunk and throw down lobs. He needs to learn a go-to move. So this shouldn't be surprising to anybody. Even broken knees Bynum has more moves in the paint than him.

Hawkeye15
08-15-2013, 05:03 PM
At 28 years old, that's probably not a compliment for Dwight...

exactly. Going into year 10 is probably not the best time to start learning how to play in the post.

DreamShaker
08-15-2013, 05:07 PM
Didn't we already know this?

Ebbs
08-15-2013, 05:07 PM
who didn't know this though? Dwight is a dominant force on both ends but the guys post moves have always been incredibly limited.

BenFrank
08-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Can u imagine what a non-raw Dwight Howard could be?.. we just might see it in 2-3 years, even though he would be out of his prime

Leftcoast_yg
08-15-2013, 05:33 PM
And the countdown begins for Dwights famous "starting on a clean slate" speech for the 3rd time but which team will he be on???

The seed has been planted.

5ass
08-15-2013, 05:34 PM
If he can get his FT shooting to 65% and be the consistent player he was in Orlando he's the best player in the West. His offensive game in Orlando was fine. If he improves his offensive game though and can still be dominant defensively he's the best player in the game. I'm not sure Howard will ever do that though.

Leftcoast_yg
08-15-2013, 05:34 PM
exactly. Going into year 10 is probably not the best time to start learning how to play in the post.

Cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Iron24th
08-15-2013, 05:40 PM
He's very raw at 28, after 10 years in the NBA and has only 1 robotic predictable move.

He could be so much better if he works harder.

*Superman*
08-15-2013, 05:44 PM
It's funny because all those years in Orlando he had Ewing mentor him as an assistant coach, but it's like he never learned ****. I mean he did improve, but his improvements year to year were so slow.

I remember one summer he worked out with Hakeem that season was when he had the most improvements, he was using both hands. Had he had Hakeem all those years who knows how much more dominate he could have become.

effen5
08-15-2013, 05:45 PM
Sad....shoulda started working with Hakeem as soon as he got into the league.

ManRam
08-15-2013, 05:50 PM
Dwight made HUGE strides during the 2010-11 season offensively. He developed some reliable moves and finally became, at least somewhat, the offensive player he thought he was. That is, you could get away with forcing the ball to him. Now, it wasn't always pretty, but mixing that with his freakish athleticism and ability to turn broken plays into easy points and he was a great offensive center. I don't hesitate to say that. I was Dwight's #1 critic in terms of Magic fans early in his career (ask MagicBucsSox, or D Roses Bulls...both thought I hated the guy and question my fandom even)...but he made huge improvements then. His last season in Orlando it wasn't quite as pretty for a variety of reasons, including injuries and dissent. In LA it all started on a terrible note and he was putrid offensively.


He's not "raw" offensively, he's just not...well...Hakeem. Nor will he ever be. But he doesn't have to be. If he can play like he did post-Finals run and before Dwightmare, then he'll quickly remind people that has best center in the NBA ability. He was a top-3 player in the NBA for good reason, even with his flaws. But yeah, I don't know if it's "rawness". I also didn't read the article because this stuff doesn't matter.

MTar786
08-15-2013, 05:53 PM
thats why i always felt dwight wasnt as good as bynum. he has a lot to learn. he is by far the most over rated player in the nba. i felt that way since his orlando days. and ive finally been proven right. but if he can still learn then he may be a lot better than he is already.

TorontoHuskies
08-15-2013, 05:54 PM
Cant teach an old dog new tricks.

No true...I taught my dog to shake my hand when it was 13.

Leftcoast_yg
08-15-2013, 06:02 PM
No true...I taught my dog to shake my hand when it was 13.

Wow, houston should hire you and your dog to mentor Dwight eff Hakeem.

ManRam
08-15-2013, 06:16 PM
thats why i always felt dwight wasnt as good as bynum. he has a lot to learn. he is by far the most over rated player in the nba. i felt that way since his orlando days. and ive finally been proven right. but if he can still learn then he may be a lot better than he is already.

You will never convince me in a million years he was overrated in his later years with Orlando (besides the last one). I'm sorry, but no one had the impact on both ends of the game as he did, besides LeBron. He was by far the most game-changing defender in the league, and while he can't hit 15 foot jumpers and turns it over, he didn't have any troubles against most every center (besides Perkins). Again, if you're less concerned with HOW he got things done offensively and just focus on the fact that he DID get things done offensively then you'd see it. 23 points a game. TS% and eFG% over 60%. PERs north of 25. WS/48 in the top 2. SO on and so on. Factor that all in with ELITE defense, and, well, nothing was ever overrated in calling him a top 5 player. It's not like he won MVPs or anything. It's not like there was a better center than him. :shrug:

It's easy to call him overrated now after the year he just had...but I don't think one substandard year suddenly means he wasn't a great player before that. I maintain that the year Rose won his MVP Howard was the second best player in the league, and a bad season with LA and him ruining my favorite team doesn't change that fact. :shrug:


People get so focused on skill...but with guys like Blake, Dwight and the other hyper athletic players, who cares? I don't care how you are an dominant and efficient 20 point scorer -- skill, finesse, power, ugliness -- if you are, you are. Doesn't matter how you got there.


It's like Duncan v Shaq. I don't know who I rate higher, but I don't knock Shaq AT ALL because he was less skilled than Duncan. He scored his own way, Duncan scores in his own way. Who cares how?

Bostonjorge
08-15-2013, 06:19 PM
Dwight can be a Tyson chandler type for Houston then

UPRock
08-15-2013, 06:24 PM
wow, houston should hire you and your dog to mentor dwight eff hakeem.

lmfao

Bruno
08-15-2013, 06:24 PM
you're not supposed to be going into your tenth year in the league and still "very raw". Hakeems words.

that is exactly what happens when you make a career out of having fun instead of working hard and busting your ***.

call me old school, but physical specimens who don't put in the work are my pet peeve. I want the hard worker who committed to his craft who overachieved. i'm quite blue collar in principal for a "flashy, showtime" laker fan from los angeles.

this is who dwight howard is, and he's only human. making millions of dollars, getting laid whenever you want and traveling the world on company dime was probably good enough for him.

jimm120
08-15-2013, 06:35 PM
With 10 years of nba experience he's deemed "very raw". That's kind of sad.

And just imagine, that was WITH the help of a pretty damn good big man coach in Ewing. Think Hakeem will also only improve him a bit.

Dwight is what he is. Just because he's elite doesn't mean he has elite offensive moves.

goku
08-15-2013, 06:41 PM
thats why i always felt dwight wasnt as good as bynum. he has a lot to learn. he is by far the most over rated player in the nba. i felt that way since his orlando days. and ive finally been proven right. but if he can still learn then he may be a lot better than he is already.

lol Bynum only had one good season and he hasn't played since that career year so that is foolish to say

Nighthawk
08-15-2013, 06:43 PM
Didn't we already know this?

X2

Thats been the knock on dwight for years now. Hakeem is just stating what posters on PSD have been saying for years... Right now wit no post moves hes the NBAs best C... If Dwight can learn from Hakeem & MChale... Watch out... Dwight with a low post finesse game to match his power?? Rockets will win a chip

ManRam
08-15-2013, 06:45 PM
you're not supposed to be going into your tenth year in the league and still "very raw". Hakeems words.

that is exactly what happens when you make a career out of having fun instead of working hard and busting your ***.

call me old school, but physical specimens who don't put in the work are my pet peeve. I want the hard worker who committed to his craft who overachieved. i'm quite blue collar in principal for a "flashy, showtime" laker fan from los angeles.

this is who dwight howard is, and he's only human. making millions of dollars, getting laid whenever you want and traveling the world on company dime was probably good enough for him.

Dwight put in WORK in the offseasons in Orlando. No one ever questioned his work ethic in Orlando, even that last year there. I truly believe this narrative is something that was created by the LA Circus and the juxtaposition of Kobe.

I don't buy that he's "raw" because he is lazy and likes to have fun, I just don't think he's "raw". I think his offensive abilities are capped and he's all but reached them.


He's not "raw", he's just not naturally not immensely talented offensively. :shrug:


SO I guess I disagree with Hakeem. And maybe that's silly of me.


Maybe this is an indictment on Patrick Ewing. Many felt that wasn't a really fruitful relationship for Dwight. Perhaps that's true. But again, I don't think it's for a lack of work. That narrative never existed before he hit LA. You can smile, crack jokes, dance, have fun, etc., and still be a hard worker. I mean, look at LeBron.

kobe4thewinbang
08-15-2013, 06:48 PM
Hell, even that basket case Cousins has more moves and fluidity in the paint.

tredigs
08-15-2013, 06:51 PM
Dwight put in WORK in the offseasons in Orlando. No one ever questioned his work ethic in Orlando, even that last year there. I truly believe this narrative is something that was created by the LA Circus and the juxtaposition of Kobe.

I don't buy that he's "raw" because he is lazy and likes to have fun, I just don't think he's "raw". I think his offensive abilities are capped and he's all but reached them.


He's not "raw", he's just not naturally not immensely talented offensively. :shrug:
I definitely disagree here. His limitations aren't physical - which is what caps people - it's bbiq and practice. The same reason he still smacks balls out of bounce rather than to a teammate (actually saw a study where he was tracked as the worst player at retaining possessions for his team after a block - Duncan #1. And that was at his peak around 10/11) is the same reason why a player of his potential isn't the most dominant player in the NBA. Well, that and back surgery.

Bruno
08-15-2013, 06:56 PM
this is who dwight howard is, and he's only human. making millions of dollars, getting laid whenever you want and traveling the world on company dime was probably good enough for him.

also want to add- being a perennial all-star and multiple time defensive player of the year.

CluTcH_c1tY
08-15-2013, 06:57 PM
Hell, even that basket case Cousins has more moves and fluidity in the paint.

Lol couldnt help but laugh when reading this. . Cousins is very talented, the league should watch out this guy can develop into a beast in a couple of years.

TorontoHuskies
08-15-2013, 07:04 PM
Wow, houston should hire you and your dog to mentor Dwight eff Hakeem.

That's what i'm saying...The trick is to find something they really like to eat and everytime they do the trick right you give them a piece..

Bruno
08-15-2013, 07:05 PM
Dwight put in WORK in the offseasons in Orlando. No one ever questioned his work ethic in Orlando, even that last year there. I truly believe this narrative is something that was created by the LA Circus and the juxtaposition of Kobe.
id be the first to admit that I never looked deeply into his off-season workout regiment while he was in orlando. i just assumed that he either was focusing his summers on other parts of his game or not working them enough to improve. I'm sure at this point in his career Howard has spent 10,000 hours specific to the offensive box. If he hasn't thats on him.


I don't buy that he's "raw" because he is lazy and likes to have fun, I just don't think he's "raw". I think his offensive abilities are capped and he's all but reached them.
got ya. you're more so taking the approach that his offensive IQ is so low that he has peaked in ability despite the fact that his physical abilities already put him ahead of the curve regarding the players he matches up against. I assume you're alluding to IQ or natural ability because with his physical advantage over his opponents there's no other explanation other than lack of commitment to improving skillset or lack of IQ. right?


He's not "raw", he's just not naturally not immensely talented offensively. :shrug:
^and thats because of IQ/and natural ability?


Maybe this is an indictment on Patrick Ewing. Many felt that wasn't a really fruitful relationship for Dwight. Perhaps that's true. But again, I don't think it's for a lack of work. That narrative never existed before he hit LA. You can smile, crack jokes, dance, have fun, etc., and still be a hard worker. I mean, look at LeBron.i think everyone has just assumed its because of work because of his physical abilities and IQ on defense. the thing about LBJ is that he really locked it up and displayed legendary intensity in the finals. despite how we know his personality to be off the court. LBJ dominated and got his so its not even up for debate with him anymore.

ManRam
08-15-2013, 07:08 PM
I definitely disagree here. His limitations aren't physical - which is what caps people - it's bbiq and practice. The same reason he still smacks balls out of bounce rather than to a teammate (actually saw a study where he was tracked as the worst player at retaining possessions for his team after a block - Duncan #1. And that was at his peak around 10/11) is the same reason why a player of his potential isn't the most dominant player in the NBA. Well, that and back surgery.

Lots of players smack balls out of bounds on blocked shots. That's a LOT different than not being able to make hookshots, shoot FTs, having nimble feet to execute the proper footwork etc.

There are things that he is stubborn about, like his tendency to bring the ball down below his torso all the time in the paint. But I do think a lot of it is physical. He is never going to be Hakeem, or close to it. And he HAS grown tremendously since he came into the league, as I stated.


Even if I'm wrong, I stand by him not magically becoming overrated. I think if anything he's become overrated.


And with that I'm done. I hate defending him but I never let my emotions get in the way of my thoughts, and I think people have gotten way too carried away with him. I found myself defending him later in the season last year, and I hate that. So I'm done, for now.

topdog
08-15-2013, 07:08 PM
lol. Way to take just THAT part of it.

Here's the full quote.

“As good as he is right now, he’s still very raw. But he has all the tools so I’m like a kid in a candy store. That’s why we give him the fundamentals of these moves. There’s a rhythm. And once he sees it, then it’s easier to emulate and then incorporate with power. He has the power. Now we’re adding finesse to the power.

“The best big men in the game – they’re game-changers. That’s what he is. And he’s in the right situation where the coach understands it, he demands it, and Dwight can give it.”

It's sort of the important part... I mean we all know that Dwight is one of the most spectacular physical specimens in the NBA but he has no post moves. So, that part of the quote actually sums it up perfectly because: 1) being "raw" and still scoring 20 points is pretty amazing but 2) being "raw" at 28 raises some red flags about his work ethic

ManRam
08-15-2013, 07:12 PM
I will say that I very well could be wrong, and maybe he is "raw" and does have the "tools" or whatever Hakeem said, and does get significantly better going forward. I just can't see it happening, and I do think he has genuinely been trying. I think we've seen his best basketball, and that was in 2010-2011, where he was an amazing player.

We'll see.

Chronz
08-15-2013, 07:24 PM
If Dwight is raw now, what was he as a teen?

tredigs
08-15-2013, 07:47 PM
Lots of players smack balls out of bounds on blocked shots. That's a LOT different than not being able to make hookshots, shoot FTs, having nimble feet to execute the proper footwork etc.

There are things that he is stubborn about, like his tendency to bring the ball down below his torso all the time in the paint. But I do think a lot of it is physical. He is never going to be Hakeem, or close to it. And he HAS grown tremendously since he came into the league, as I stated.


Even if I'm wrong, I stand by him not magically becoming overrated. I think if anything he's become overrated.


And with that I'm done. I hate defending him but I never let my emotions get in the way of my thoughts, and I think people have gotten way too carried away with him. I found myself defending him later in the season last year, and I hate that. So I'm done, for now.

He doesn't have that dexterity naturally, and probably didn't work on it much exclusively growing up (it's no secret that Hakeem claims his footwork is a result of growing up playing soccer), so I'm not going to disagree that he could just evolve into this fluid fadeaway shooting finesse+power big if he only worked harder, but I just don't think he's anywhere where he could be from a bbiq standpoint (passing and blocking wise, mostly), and that's not defensible to me if you're trying to be the best in the world. That said, based on his comments / antics I don't think he's ever desired to be the best in the world, so it's silly to expect this from him.

Definitely not trying to get under your skin with Dwight and I know that you know his game better than most - including me, I just can't help myself with him. I don't like the guy and don't like his game, but nobody is denying his impact even if it's 80% of where he could have been.

mrblisterdundee
08-15-2013, 07:51 PM
I bet that makes Patrick Ewing feel good.

houstonfan
08-15-2013, 07:56 PM
That's like: "Yeah honey, that dress DOES make you look kind of fat. Ummmm, urrrrr... But I mean, wow, you gotta lot of what I want. Yes you got so much curves, you are so beautiful, it's like a candy store. Mmmmmm hmmmmm. Yes I like you just the way you are. And when you walk you just got this sweet rhythm, every thing is perfect. Perfect perfect perfect perfect. Mmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm, none of that boney-azz Kate Upton or Jennifer Lawrence for me. And once you see that, baby, wow then you can incorporate it all with your style. Then your just adding finesse to what you already GOT. That's all I'm saying. The sexiest women, they're game changers, because they're just sexy just how they are, they don't try to change and that makes them even sexier and I know you know how to give that. That's all I'm trying to say, baby, that you are the sexiest woman in the world and I want you just the way you are."

Idk wtf you are saying here...

Dankster
08-15-2013, 08:17 PM
Well almost every center in league history will look rudimentary to Olajuwon. I was fortunate enough to watch this guy play in his absolute prime, and him calling Dwight HOward "raw" doesn't surprise me. But he has to recognize, not everyone is going to meet their potential the way Hakeem did. For an undersized center (he was 6 "10 at most,) he was just an animal in the paint. Best footwork and post game I've ever seen from a big man, no question.

Dwight is much slower than Hakeem and looks more robotic/mechanical in his motions. Depends what his expectations are for Dwight, but if he's trying to assume he can come anywhere near as great as himself, well that's wishful thinking.

Verbal Christ
08-15-2013, 08:28 PM
How did I know before even opening this thread that it would be loaded with butt hurt Laker fans? As much as some things change...

EVERYONE has to be taught how to do things, up to and including basketball. Dreams comments are more a condemnation of whoever it was that was supposed to be coaching and bringing Dwight along. AKEEM was very raw also, wasn't after what 10 years that he figured it all out? Athleticism will only get you so far, and Carrol Dawson and Moses Malone were some of the people who showed Dream how to really play in the paint.

But whatever really, don't let me get in the way of whatever 'venting' and 'let it all out' therapy that some of you are currently practicing due to the Dwight saga.

Leftcoast_yg
08-15-2013, 08:29 PM
That's what i'm saying...The trick is to find something they really like to eat and everytime they do the trick right you give them a piece..

Attention....got it. ;)

smiddy012
08-15-2013, 08:35 PM
This just confirms that DH has a poor work ethic.

Maintaining the "finesse" or "skill" side of the game (or having any at all) is simply a matter of training and dedication.

DH has looked best offensively when he was in mid-season rhythm as he has used the actual games to develop his touch.

This is the main reason Shaq dogs DH ridiculously, because he sees himself in DH (a big man with all the gifts but not 100% commitment).

tredigs
08-15-2013, 08:37 PM
How did I know before even opening this thread that it would be loaded with butt hurt Laker fans? As much as some things change...

EVERYONE has to be taught how to do things, up to and including basketball. Dreams comments are more a condemnation of whoever it was that was supposed to be coaching and bringing Dwight along. AKEEM was very raw also, wasn't after what 10 years that he figured it all out? Athleticism will only get you so far, and Carrol Dawson and Moses Malone were some of the people who showed Dream how to really play in the paint.

But whatever really, don't let me get in the way of whatever 'venting' and 'let it all out' therapy that some of you are currently practicing due to the Dwight saga.

Well, he didn't even know about basketball until his mid teens and still put up 21 and 11 on high efficiency and was the best offensive rebounder in the NBA as a rookie. So, there was that. He peaked later as an All Time great, but his "raw" wasn't as unproductive as people try to make it out sometimes.

Bishnoff
08-15-2013, 09:05 PM
Nothing will change, even with The Dream coaching him.

D-Leethal
08-15-2013, 09:13 PM
Ewing did a pretty awful job with Dwight to be honest with you.

RLundi
08-15-2013, 09:14 PM
That's like: "Yeah honey, that dress DOES make you look kind of fat. Ummmm, urrrrr... But I mean, wow, you gotta lot of what I want. Yes you got so much curves, you are so beautiful, it's like a candy store. Mmmmmm hmmmmm. Yes I like you just the way you are. And when you walk you just got this sweet rhythm, every thing is perfect. Perfect perfect perfect perfect. Mmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm, none of that boney-azz Kate Upton or Jennifer Lawrence for me. And once you see that, baby, wow then you can incorporate it all with your style. Then your just adding finesse to what you already GOT. That's all I'm saying. The sexiest women, they're game changers, because they're just sexy just how they are, they don't try to change and that makes them even sexier and I know you know how to give that. That's all I'm trying to say, baby, that you are the sexiest woman in the world and I want you just the way you are."

Bitter, butthurt Laker fan at its finest.

kid#8™
08-15-2013, 09:26 PM
as if where talking about a kid coming out of highschool..LOL..very raw huh..
:oldguy: :facepalm:

THE MTL
08-15-2013, 09:31 PM
Dwight Howard is a glorified shot blocker/rebounder with 3 offensive moves (baby hook dunk or alley).

Verbal Christ
08-15-2013, 09:31 PM
Well, he didn't even know about basketball until his mid teens and still put up 21 and 11 on high efficiency and was the best offensive rebounder in the NBA as a rookie. So, there was that. He peaked later as an All Time great, but his "raw" wasn't as unproductive as people try to make it out sometimes.

not unlike Dwight in his early years?

tredigs
08-15-2013, 09:40 PM
not unlike Dwight in his early years?

What, learning the game as a mid-teen and still coming in as a force on both ends? No, not like Dwight.

Dwight's not young, he's joining his 3rd team in his 10th season and has already had back surgery. We have seen his peak, I feel confident in that.

MrfadeawayJB
08-15-2013, 10:06 PM
At 28 years old, that's probably not a compliment for Dwight...

Haha pretty much this. Yes he may add 1-2 good moves, but I doubt he'll ever transform into the dominant center he should be at this point in his career.

Kobe2324
08-15-2013, 10:25 PM
I dont buy it, at 28 he should be a lot better than what he is, if he hasn't gotten by now he's just not gonna get it, he's content with who he is and thats just it. He's not a bad player, but I dont expect him to improve, at least not much anyways.

5ass
08-15-2013, 10:50 PM
What, learning the game as a mid-teen and still coming in as a force on both ends? No, not like Dwight.

Dwight's not young, he's joining his 3rd team in his 10th season and has already had back surgery. We have seen his peak, I feel confident in that.

I wouldnt be too confident. Dwight was still recovering from surgery this year and had a torn muscle in his labrum. He also looked like he lost a bit of weight from his days in Orlando. If his body fully recovers this offseason he can put up the best numbers of his career. Harden, McHale and Hakeem can all help him improve. Harden is going to make him look so much better because he can pass and he can shoot. Most importantly he can get to the rim and give Dwight easy rebounds and dump offs. Harden is the best at getting to the FT line, he gets opposing bigs in foul trouble. As much as people knock Howard's offensive game one thing is VERY few players can stop Dwight one-on-one in a 7 game series. Thats why teams resort to fouling him when he's near the rim. Lets see how opposing teams' bigs handle foul trouble between Harden and Howard.

Harden is just such a versatile player that I think he'll develop great chemistry with Dwight, and elevate his game. He's in an almost perfect situation right now. All they need to do is trade Asik for a 4 that can shoot, rebound, and some defense.

If the Rockets end up getting Anderson I fully expect a career year from Howard. Anderson is the final piece that can make this team perfectly built around Dwight. Anderson and Howard had great chemistry in Orlando. He is as productive with Dwight as Bosh is in Miami. Trade Asik and Donatas for Anderson and sign a back up center. Then they're pretty much built around Dwight.

5ass
08-15-2013, 10:52 PM
My point is Dwight might not have to become a "better" player to put up better stats. He's going to be the same player but Harden is going to make the game easier for him.

ztilzer31
08-15-2013, 10:54 PM
All you guys hating Dwight Howard were probably the same ones trying to convince us for the last 3 years that Lebron James wasn't any good, and would never win a title.

AIRMAR72
08-15-2013, 10:59 PM
Ive been saying this for sometime now dwight howard is a Modernday antnio davis(davis was a better player) its just TOO late for howard to improve he was never SERIOUS about basketball he was Told by pat ewing to dribble(kick with ur feet) a soccerball multiple time in the practice and during the offseason why you think euro player have better post moves and footwork its because they play soccer hakeem is the best center to ever played in the NBA better than wilt and kareem. abuse shaq when he was with the magics a nightmare for ewing and david robinson along with tim duncan(younger version) that is why all the younger guys in today NBA go to dream(hakeem) for help long live the dream

Mcdoh
08-15-2013, 11:00 PM
Wow, houston should hire you and your dog to mentor Dwight eff Hakeem.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

kenzo400
08-15-2013, 11:02 PM
Shaq never had much of a post game. He just used his strength.

MaloDaw9
08-15-2013, 11:06 PM
I don't think Dwight has any feeling in his hands at all, it's like they are asleep all the time. His touch around the basket is horrible at best.

MaloDaw9
08-15-2013, 11:08 PM
Shaq never had much of a post game. He just used his strength.

Shaq had softer hands and a better touch around the rim than Dwight. x10

ewing
08-15-2013, 11:30 PM
Shaq had softer hands and a better touch around the rim than Dwight. x10

IDK about that but he was better and sealing and pivoting and he had the little turn around banker and he was 10x the passer

kenzo400
08-15-2013, 11:30 PM
Shaq had softer hands and a better touch around the rim than Dwight. x10

True but he had to be within 3 feet of the basket lol I know its not fair to compare Dwight to Shaq. Even if Shaq was limited he still dominated.

Tanakid777
08-15-2013, 11:44 PM
In other news, the sky is blue

FOBolous
08-16-2013, 12:08 AM
You will never convince me in a million years he was overrated in his later years with Orlando (besides the last one). I'm sorry, but no one had the impact on both ends of the game as he did, besides LeBron. He was by far the most game-changing defender in the league, and while he can't hit 15 foot jumpers and turns it over, he didn't have any troubles against most every center (besides Perkins). Again, if you're less concerned with HOW he got things done offensively and just focus on the fact that he DID get things done offensively then you'd see it. 23 points a game. TS% and eFG% over 60%. PERs north of 25. WS/48 in the top 2. SO on and so on. Factor that all in with ELITE defense, and, well, nothing was ever overrated in calling him a top 5 player. It's not like he won MVPs or anything. It's not like there was a better center than him. :shrug:

It's easy to call him overrated now after the year he just had...but I don't think one substandard year suddenly means he wasn't a great player before that. I maintain that the year Rose won his MVP Howard was the second best player in the league, and a bad season with LA and him ruining my favorite team doesn't change that fact. :shrug:


People get so focused on skill...but with guys like Blake, Dwight and the other hyper athletic players, who cares? I don't care how you are an dominant and efficient 20 point scorer -- skill, finesse, power, ugliness -- if you are, you are. Doesn't matter how you got there.


It's like Duncan v Shaq. I don't know who I rate higher, but I don't knock Shaq AT ALL because he was less skilled than Duncan. He scored his own way, Duncan scores in his own way. Who cares how?

:clap:

Sssmush
08-16-2013, 04:21 AM
I don't think Dwight has any feeling in his hands at all, it's like they are asleep all the time. His touch around the basket is horrible at best.

yep. The Kwame hands were on full display all last season. No "torn labrum" or sore back explains that whatsoever

Sssmush
08-16-2013, 04:22 AM
Shaq never had much of a post game. He just used his strength.

What!?!

Ha ha that is funny. When you were watching Shaq you were watching a true living legend.

xxplayerxx23
08-16-2013, 05:42 AM
So many bitter laker fans are going to be upset if he does well in Houston

xxplayerxx23
08-16-2013, 05:43 AM
Despite having limited moves when healthy he is a double double guy with the best defense in the league. 20-20 potential each night

jaji10
08-16-2013, 06:37 AM
we all know that dwight has no post moves, but he is physically gifted and that's it.. this is what dwight should accept that he's not a no.1 player, not a go to guy player.. he already doesn't do good on post ups, he can't shoot from the mid range, he's also a liability on the ft line.. someone needs to bump his head to wake him up.. dwight is a very good complimentary player, a superstar but a no.2 guy.. At the start of the season they will cater to dwight, give him the ball more.. but once they actually see his limitations, Harden will be the no1 guy in houston, and in some games i can see c.parsons shooting more times than dwight.. Houston is Harden's team.

RollingWave
08-16-2013, 06:57 AM
December: "Hakeem, do you think the current losing streak is Howard's fault? What is Howard doing wrong and what would you tell him to fix it?"

LoL, yeah, it's not like there's any media people or reporters from Los Angeles that are going to have a few things to say/ask once the season gets underway.
Nah, in Houston, whenever anything goes wrong, it's always first , 2nd and last Jeremy Lin's fault ;)

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 11:32 AM
we all know that dwight has no post moves, but he is physically gifted and that's it.. this is what dwight should accept that he's not a no.1 player, not a go to guy player.. he already doesn't do good on post ups, he can't shoot from the mid range, he's also a liability on the ft line.. someone needs to bump his head to wake him up.. dwight is a very good complimentary player, a superstar but a no.2 guy.. At the start of the season they will cater to dwight, give him the ball more.. but once they actually see his limitations, Harden will be the no1 guy in houston, and in some games i can see c.parsons shooting more times than dwight.. Houston is Harden's team.

I doubt that. Kevin Mchale, and Hakeem have made it seem that they plan on getting the ball into the paint a lot. Sure Harden should be taking more shots, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to try to improve/use Dwight's offensive game.

By the way lol at all the people thinking Dwight can't improve. He now has 2 of the best big men of all time teaching him. Dwight needs to learn 2 things regarding offensive.

1. When to post up. Howard seems to have no idea when he should be posting and when he should be passing. There is no rhyme or reason to his post game.

2. Kind of the same thing, but he needs to realize when to pass the ball out during the double team. He gets caught and turns the ball over way too often. I don't think he's post game is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be, but hist basketball IQ is pretty bad offensively.

I can't wait to see Houston play this year.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 11:48 AM
Despite having limited moves when healthy he is a double double guy with the best defense in the league. 20-20 potential each night

that is the bottom line. When healthy, a top 5 player in the game, despite limited post ability. Saying he doesn't have many post moves is simply nitpicking. Would we like to see another big man with sweet footwork, and baby hooks galore? Sure. Oh well.

Many forget how much a healthy Dwight impacts the game. Even if he has his faults.

TheIlladelph16
08-16-2013, 12:03 PM
Why do so many fans (read: butthurt Lakers fans) focus solely on HOW Dwight gets it done, rather than the fact that HE DID get it done? I don't give a flying **** if he can't hit a 10 foot sky hook or lacks certain post moves. He puts up 20+ points, 10+ rebounds on efficient scoring all while playing elite defense. How many Centers get you that? The answer is none.

For ****s sake, if we listened to only Lakers fans on this subject, we'd think Dwight is Kwame Brown 2.0.

xxplayerxx23
08-16-2013, 12:28 PM
that is the bottom line. When healthy, a top 5 player in the game, despite limited post ability. Saying he doesn't have many post moves is simply nitpicking. Would we like to see another big man with sweet footwork, and baby hooks galore? Sure. Oh well.

Many forget how much a healthy Dwight impacts the game. Even if he has his faults.


Exactly everybody forgets because he is a ******* as a person. But he is great when healthy hopefully for Houston fans he is fully healthy this year and he can remind everyone

AnthonyTyrael
08-16-2013, 12:46 PM
that is the bottom line. When healthy, a top 5 player in the game, despite limited post ability. Saying he doesn't have many post moves is simply nitpicking. Would we like to see another big man with sweet footwork, and baby hooks galore? Sure. Oh well.

Many forget how much a healthy Dwight impacts the game. Even if he has his faults.

Nontheless I feel sorry for wasting so much talent, if you could be a player so much better instead.

I can't tell about his talent, nor about his work ethics. I'm not around Howard most the time and I really believe that he has work ethics...he just lacks fundamentals, probably understanding (as do I but I'm not with the league anyway) or how some call it basketball IQ but... as dominant as he is and/or should be by just looking at the athletic side of his "abilities", it's sad that he's not taking advantage of it, in an era, when his position in this game is so softened nowadays. I don't care how he scores, he needs no grace at all, sure some technique but pure domiance. He's no Shaq but he has a body which should be another form of a weapon too.

It's nobodies fault that he's tough to include in an offense at all. No matter what system you run. Even in his best Orlando years, he didn't particiapate offensively all the time. He had so much off time, hilarious. His game, play, positioning etc...I dunno but in the opposite to most others here, I do belive that playing alongside Lin and Harden and mainly - even at...what's his age now, 28 or so, while being that long in the league already - I do believe that Hakeem can really help him step forward a lot. He'll never become a second Dream, that for sure and it would basically be wrong to try to get him there but to get him at least to his own limit, his own peak and prhaps some percent above. To shake that, somehow, outta him. If he's staying healthy, that must be given and if he really wants it, as the player.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 12:57 PM
Nontheless I feel sorry for wasting so much talent, if you could be a player so much better instead.

I can't tell about his talent, nor about his work ethics. I'm not around Howard most the time and I really believe that he has work ethics...he just lacks fundamentals, probably understanding (as do I but I'm not with the league anyway) or how some call it basketball IQ but... as dominant as he is and/or should be by just looking at the athletic side of his "abilities", it's sad that he's not taking advantage of it, in an era, when his position in this game is so softened nowadays. I don't care how he scores, he needs no grace at all, sure some technique but pure domiance. He's no Shaq but he has a body which should be another form of a weapon too.

It's nobodies fault that he's tough to include in an offense at all. No matter what system you run. Even in his best Orlando years, he didn't particiapate offensively all the time. He had so much off time, hilarious. His game, play, positioning etc...I dunno but in the opposite to most others here, I do belive that playing alongside Lin and Harden and mainly - even at...what's his age now, 28 or so, while being that long in the league already - I do believe that Hakeem can really help him step forward a lot. He'll never become a second Dream, that for sure and it would basically be wrong to try to get him there but to get him at least to his own limit, his own peak and prhaps some percent above. To shake that, somehow, outta him. If he's staying healthy, that must be given and if he really wants it, as the player.

I don't disagree with that, but unlike in era's past, Dwight had almost nobody at his position that pushed him to be better. He dominated with pure athletic ability and natural skill, and never NEEDED to spend every waking hour during the offseason polishing his moves because a few other centers kicked his butt, ala Shaq, Dream, D-Rob, etc.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 01:11 PM
in defense of dwight, I've heard that he's 6'9 barefoot. he's no where close to being a legit seven footer. am i wrong to say that he's a lot more like Karl Malone in physical stature/build than the other great centers of eras past who he'll never live up to?

even if he returns to forum, his 2012-2013 campaign with the Lakers shines a light on what he'll look like later in his career when he loses his athleticism (his only advantage at the basket). he's gona get punked on the box when his athleticism leaves him. he'll get stripped every game and his shoulders will give out. book it.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 02:19 PM
in defense of dwight, I've heard that he's 6'9 barefoot. he's no where close to being a legit seven footer. am i wrong to say that he's a lot more like Karl Malone in physical stature/build than the other great centers of eras past who he'll never live up to?

even if he returns to forum, his 2012-2013 campaign with the Lakers shines a light on what he'll look like later in his career when he loses his athleticism (his only advantage at the basket). he's gona get punked on the box when his athleticism leaves him. he'll get stripped every game and his shoulders will give out. book it.

oh for sure dude. His terrible FT shooting has made opponents just drop the hammer on him stripping/fouling since day 1. By age 33-34, his shoulders are going to be effed.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 02:23 PM
Why do so many fans (read: butthurt Lakers fans) focus solely on HOW Dwight gets it done, rather than the fact that HE DID get it done? I don't give a flying **** if he can't hit a 10 foot sky hook or lacks certain post moves. He puts up 20+ points, 10+ rebounds on efficient scoring all while playing elite defense. How many Centers get you that? The answer is none.

For ****s sake, if we listened to only Lakers fans on this subject, we'd think Dwight is Kwame Brown 2.0.

A Laker fan in a different thread actually said he's Kwame Brown 2.0. Funny that you'd say that lol.

It's just them switching focus. Now that no one will listen to them talk about how bad Lebron is they'll move to Dwight.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 02:24 PM
in defense of dwight, I've heard that he's 6'9 barefoot. he's no where close to being a legit seven footer. am i wrong to say that he's a lot more like Karl Malone in physical stature/build than the other great centers of eras past who he'll never live up to?

even if he returns to forum, his 2012-2013 campaign with the Lakers shines a light on what he'll look like later in his career when he loses his athleticism (his only advantage at the basket). he's gona get punked on the box when his athleticism leaves him. he'll get stripped every game and his shoulders will give out. book it.

His athleticism is his only advantage? What about his giant wingspan, and superior strength. Stop trying to straw man Dwight.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 02:24 PM
Also no he's nothing like Karl Malone. Not in his build, or his play style.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 05:06 PM
His athleticism is his only advantage? What about his giant wingspan, and superior strength. Stop trying to straw man Dwight.
first of all, why don't you google or grab a websters dictionary and look up athleticism. Strength is of course included within the definition of athleticism. ...so why are you referring to them as two totally separate things? To make it look like I left out more of his positive qualities in the effort to pigeon-hole my comment into some kind of criticism? You are straw manning me, thanks.

Karl Malone also had superior strength at nearly the same height and weight as Howard, hence my comparison. dwight has a great wingspan, and it is certainly what has allowed him to become a dominant defensive anchor despite being 6'9 barefoot and traditionally undersized for a era defining center. offensively, how much good does it to do him when he's getting stripped below his waist by wings?. Wingspan is irrelevant on the box when you don't have the technique to keep the ball high. you're going to have to show me where his superior wing-span came into play offensively last season (his massive wing-span still didn't make up for the fact that he had lost a step because of the back surgery). Obviously Howards wing-span will be more greatly displayed with increased mobility (something we all assume is going to happen, even though we haven't actually seen it since the surgery).


Also no he's nothing like Karl Malone. Not in his build, or his play style.
sure he is. they are both built like tanks.

at no point did I compare his playing style to Karl Malone. re-read please.

Malone is 6'8 barefoot, around 250. Howard is 6'9 barefoot, and around 250 pounds. Of course they're alike in build, even if Howard is a bit longer finger tip to finger tip (an advantage that renders itself practically useless when you don't have the offensive skill set to exploit it; exception being offensive glass, and Howard wasn't even top ten if offensive rebounds last season). Howards wing-span is usually on full display defensively, but rarely offensively.

Sssmush
08-16-2013, 05:36 PM
I doubt that. Kevin Mchale, and Hakeem have made it seem that they plan on getting the ball into the paint a lot. Sure Harden should be taking more shots, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to try to improve/use Dwight's offensive game.

By the way lol at all the people thinking Dwight can't improve. He now has 2 of the best big men of all time teaching him. Dwight needs to learn 2 things regarding offensive.

1. When to post up. Howard seems to have no idea when he should be posting and when he should be passing. There is no rhyme or reason to his post game.

2. Kind of the same thing, but he needs to realize when to pass the ball out during the double team. He gets caught and turns the ball over way too often. I don't think he's post game is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be, but hist basketball IQ is pretty bad offensively.

I can't wait to see Houston play this year.


yep. The Lakers proved this year that just passing it into Dwight in the post over and over is not a way to win ballgames. For one thing he drops the ball, holds the ball low, and turns it over a lot. For another thing he can't shoot free throws. For another he starts to just kind of stand there and get 2 defenders around him a lot, then if he is not within like 2 feet of the basket he is not very effective.

So, if in Houston they just start dumping the ball into Dwight in the post and not running pick and rolls... it's almost a certainty that they will start losing games. McHale might call Dwight's bluff on that and go ahead and lose some games to change Dwight's mind... but as soon as Houston loses a few games Dwight is going to be under A LOT of pressure because the national media has built up the Rockets as some kind of super team with Harden and Dwight that is a legit contender for the NBA title.

So, if they just start pounding the ball into Dwight in the post, first of all they are very likely to lose games, and second of all it will start to make it very clear very fast that Dwight can't just solve all their problems and carry the team. This is likely to frustrate Dwight, he'll be like "why do you keep passing to me in the post" because he'll be dropping balls, missing crucial freethrows, not scoring on crucial possessions, making bad passes. If that happens the criticism and frustration level will be worse than in LA, because there is no Kobe/Pau/Dantoni to blame it on. There's no excuses now and so that makes this Rockets season very interesting to see. One possible scenario is that Dwight starts to say stuff like "I just need more of a supporting cast. I need the guards and perimeter players to start taking/making more shots. I'm playing hard but I just can't do it all alone." Yet at the same time he doesn't want to play pick and roll. So Houston is in a fix.

It wouldn't be terrible to see Dwight do well, he's fun to watch when he's on, but he seems to have just picked Houston out of a hat, maybe because it is halfway between Orlando and Los Angeles.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 05:44 PM
first of all, why don't you google or grab a websters dictionary and look up athleticism. Strength is of course included within the definition of athleticism. ...so why are you referring to them as two totally separate things? To make it look like I left out more of his positive qualities in the effort to pigeon-hole my comment into some kind of criticism? You are straw manning me, thanks.

Karl Malone also had superior strength at nearly the same height and weight as Howard, hence my comparison. dwight has a great wingspan, and it is certainly what has allowed him to become a dominant defensive anchor despite being 6'9 barefoot and traditionally undersized for a era defining center. offensively, how much good does it to do him when he's getting stripped below his waist by wings?. Wingspan is irrelevant on the box when you don't have the technique to keep the ball high. you're going to have to show me where his superior wing-span came into play offensively last season (his massive wing-span still didn't make up for the fact that he had lost a step because of the back surgery). Obviously Howards wing-span will be more greatly displayed with increased mobility (something we all assume is going to happen, even though we haven't actually seen it since the surgery).


sure he is. they are both built like tanks.

at no point did I compare his playing style to Karl Malone. re-read please.

Malone is 6'8 barefoot, around 250. Howard is 6'9 barefoot, and around 250 pounds. Of course they're alike in build, even if Howard is a bit longer finger tip to finger tip (an advantage that renders itself practically useless when you don't have the offensive skill set to exploit it; exception being offensive glass, and Howard wasn't even top ten if offensive rebounds last season). Howards wing-span is usually on full display defensively, but rarely offensively.

1. So you think he's going to lose strength in the future? Say in the next 5 years? Because if you do it makes the comment just as dumb. When someone says that they will lose "athleticism" they're usually referring to speed, and vertical. Not strenght. Because referring to strength loss later in someones career is beyond stupid.

2. He is in no way the physical build of Karl Malone. He's more athletic. Longer, and plays in a completely different style. So the comparison is stupid.

3. I'm not going to compare his game to Malone's... But even if he has bigger wingspan than Malone he doesn't use it.... So basically I'm not going to compare him to Malone, but this is me comparing him to Malone LOL.

So he's not big enough to be a big Center, but he's a great defensive Center? He's big enough to play defense at the position, but not big enough to play offense? Your argument literally doesn't make any sense.

You're just another Lakers fan that is trying to pick apart Dwight's game. The Lakers didn't "exploit" anything. All we learned from Dwight playing in LA is that the Lakers are **** without Buss/Phil Jackson.

Not buying it. Just because your a mod doesn't mean I'm going to buy any of your BS.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 05:46 PM
Charles Barkley and LBJ are similar in builds because they have similar height's and weights. See how dumb that sounds? It's just a pointless thing to say. You're trying to act like Dwight isn't good enough to play Center. And like I said before ain't buying sorry.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 05:48 PM
When Dwight has a terrific season, and the Rockets make the conference finals. I want all of you to get on your knee's and blow him. Seriously. All this hate, and criticism is just stupid, and is coming from you all being butt hurt. Quit acting like he's some bum. He's the best Center in the league show some ****ing respect.

DaLakerz Rulz
08-16-2013, 05:52 PM
1. So you think he's going to lose strength in the future? Say in the next 5 years? Because if you do it makes the comment just as dumb. When someone says that they will lose "athleticism" they're usually referring to speed, and vertical. Not strenght. Because referring to strength loss later in someones career is beyond stupid.

2. He is in no way the physical build of Karl Malone. He's more athletic. Longer, and plays in a completely different style. So the comparison is stupid.

3. I'm not going to compare his game to Malone's... But even if he has bigger wingspan than Malone he doesn't use it.... So basically I'm not going to compare him to Malone, but this is me comparing him to Malone LOL.

So he's not big enough to be a big Center, but he's a great defensive Center? He's big enough to play defense at the position, but not big enough to play offense? Your argument literally doesn't make any sense.

You're just another Lakers fan that is trying to pick apart Dwight's game. The Lakers didn't "exploit" anything. All we learned from Dwight playing in LA is that the Lakers are **** without Buss/Phil Jackson.

Not buying it. Just because your a mod doesn't mean I'm going to buy any of your BS.

Either your reading comprehension is horrible, or you have just picked today to troll more than usual.

5ass
08-16-2013, 05:57 PM
I doubt that. Kevin Mchale, and Hakeem have made it seem that they plan on getting the ball into the paint a lot. Sure Harden should be taking more shots, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to try to improve/use Dwight's offensive game.

By the way lol at all the people thinking Dwight can't improve. He now has 2 of the best big men of all time teaching him. Dwight needs to learn 2 things regarding offensive.

1. When to post up. Howard seems to have no idea when he should be posting and when he should be passing. There is no rhyme or reason to his post game.

2. Kind of the same thing, but he needs to realize when to pass the ball out during the double team. He gets caught and turns the ball over way too often. I don't think he's post game is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be, but hist basketball IQ is pretty bad offensively.

I can't wait to see Houston play this year.

He needs to work on his bank shot, learn how to kick the ball out and repost, and get his FT shooting up to 65% and he can easily become a 25 ppg scorer on great efficiency.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:02 PM
1. So you think he's going to lose strength in the future? Say in the next 5 years? Because if you do it makes the comment just as dumb. When someone says that they will lose "athleticism" they're usually referring to speed, and vertical. Not strenght. Because referring to strength loss later in someones career is beyond stupid.

2. He is in no way the physical build of Karl Malone. He's more athletic. Longer, and plays in a completely different style. So the comparison is stupid.

3. I'm not going to compare his game to Malone's... But even if he has bigger wingspan than Malone he doesn't use it.... So basically I'm not going to compare him to Malone, but this is me comparing him to Malone LOL.

So he's not big enough to be a big Center, but he's a great defensive Center? He's big enough to play defense at the position, but not big enough to play offense? Your argument literally doesn't make any sense.

You're just another Lakers fan that is trying to pick apart Dwight's game. The Lakers didn't "exploit" anything. All we learned from Dwight playing in LA is that the Lakers are **** without Buss/Phil Jackson.

Not buying it. Just because your a mod doesn't mean I'm going to buy any of your BS.

no.

Morey (Rockets GM) just posted in his AMA two hours ago that McHale is going to experiment with Dwight at PF and Asik at C during camp and pre-season. what do you think about that?

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Charles Barkley and LBJ are similar in builds because they have similar height's and weights. See how dumb that sounds? It's just a pointless thing to say. You're trying to act like Dwight isn't good enough to play Center. And like I said before ain't buying sorry.

that has nothing to do with it.

and Charles Barkley is 6'4.


When Dwight has a terrific season, and the Rockets make the conference finals. I want all of you to get on your knee's and blow him. Seriously. All this hate, and criticism is just stupid, and is coming from you all being butt hurt. Quit acting like he's some bum. He's the best Center in the league show some ****ing respect.

wrong again. the best center in the league punked Howard in the first round of the playoffs and lead his team to the NBA finals. he also has a post-game.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:15 PM
that has nothing to do with it.

and Charles Barkley is 6'4.



wrong again. the best center in the league punked Howard in the first round of the playoffs and lead his team to the NBA finals. he also has a post-game.

Thiago Splitter? LOL.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:15 PM
Either your reading comprehension is horrible, or you have just picked today to troll more than usual.

You're a Lakers fan. Nothing you say matters.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:16 PM
no.

Morey (Rockets GM) just posted in his AMA two hours ago that McHale is going to experiment with Dwight at PF and Asik at C during camp and pre-season. what do you think about that?

Doesn't change the fact you saying Dwight can't get any better at 28 years old is beyond stupid.

Life must be crazy in those gigantic homer goggles.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:18 PM
He needs to work on his bank shot, learn how to kick the ball out and repost, and get his FT shooting up to 65% and he can easily become a 25 ppg scorer on great efficiency.

No dude. Just ask Bruno. He can't improve. He's a mediocre Center, and is forever bad because he didn't win a chip with the Lakers.

You're mistake sorry. Wrong forum this is the Lakers circle Jerk forum. The NBA forum doesn't exist anymore.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:19 PM
Also no CHarles Barkley is 6'6.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:20 PM
Doesn't change the fact you saying Dwight can't get any better at 28 years old is beyond stupid.

Life must be crazy in those gigantic homer goggles.

I never said that. although he has to prove he can come back 100% from back surgery. if he can't get any better training under Hakeem and McHale he's either damaged goods or ManRam is right in regards to already capping out on his offensive potential.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:23 PM
Also no CHarles Barkley is 6'6.

do some deeper digging on your google page and don't just look at what pops up in big letters on the first sports link provided. people have been talking about how Barkley isn't a full 6'5 for years.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:29 PM
do some deeper digging on your google page and don't just look at what pops up in big letters on the first sports link provided. people have been talking about how Barkley isn't a full 6'5 for years.

Sure dude. Whatever you say. Google isn't reliable. However your unnamed sources are completely legitimate LOL.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:31 PM
I never said that. although he has to prove he can come back 100% from back surgery. if he can't get any better training under Hakeem and McHale he's either damaged goods or ManRam is right in regards to already capping out on his offensive potential.

You said he'll never be a great big man in this game. About a guy is 28 years old and has already won 3 DPOY awards. Yeah right. Never man. He'll never be a great big man. LOL your posts are a joke man. You say the same **** as the rest of the Lakers fan base you just articulate it differently. I see right through you man. Keep on hating Dwight I'm sure that'll make the Lakers sucking easier to take.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:39 PM
You said he'll never be a great big man in this game. About a guy is 28 years old and has already won 3 DPOY awards. Yeah right. Never man. He'll never be a great big man. LOL your posts are a joke man. You say the same **** as the rest of the Lakers fan base you just articulate it differently. I see right through you man. Keep on hating Dwight I'm sure that'll make the Lakers sucking easier to take.
quote me. go find it.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:42 PM
Sure dude. Whatever you say. Google isn't reliable. However your unnamed sources are completely legitimate LOL.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/sports/basketball/22score.html?_r=0

"they lie" -Charles Barkley.

are you done?

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:46 PM
oh for sure dude. His terrible FT shooting has made opponents just drop the hammer on him stripping/fouling since day 1. By age 33-34, his shoulders are going to be effed.

all he's gotta do is hold high. I think with McHale in his head, hell clean up this bad habit. he's gona need to, and getting your shoulders injured is as good a motivation as any.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:49 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/sports/basketball/22score.html?_r=0

"they lie" -Charles Barkley.

are you done?

“They lie,” said Charles Barkley, a basketball commentator for TNT. “I’ve been measured at 6-5, 6-4 ¾. But I started in college at 6-6.”

You're own ****ing article. LOL.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:52 PM
in defense of dwight, I've heard that he's 6'9 barefoot. he's no where close to being a legit seven footer. am i wrong to say that he's a lot more like Karl Malone in physical stature/build than the other great centers of eras past who he'll never live up to?

even if he returns to forum, his 2012-2013 campaign with the Lakers shines a light on what he'll look like later in his career when he loses his athleticism (his only advantage at the basket). he's gona get punked on the box when his athleticism leaves him. he'll get stripped every game and his shoulders will give out. book it.

Bam, and yes you are wrong you should be ashamed.

Go ahead man, but you were one of the ringleaders of the Laker goons when Dwight was picked up saying you guys were going to win 70 games. Has his game changed so drastically? What's the big difference? Or maybe you're just butt hurt and trying to straw man him.

I remember saying the were going to be a 4th seed and you and 5 other dude jumped on me like a bunch of gang bangers. Now you're just trying to pass the blame off.

Once again.

Not

Buying

It

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 06:52 PM
Now can I ask you... You done?

Bruno
08-16-2013, 06:53 PM
“They lie,” said Charles Barkley, a basketball commentator for TNT. “I’ve been measured at 6-5, 6-4 ¾. But I started in college at 6-6.”

You're own ****ing article. LOL.

read it again. you've got it backwards.

this has been stimulating.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 06:59 PM
Charles Barkley and LBJ are similar in builds because they have similar height's and weights. See how dumb that sounds? It's just a pointless thing to say. You're trying to act like Dwight isn't good enough to play Center. And like I said before ain't buying sorry.

LeBron is around 4 inches taller than Barkley, but the same playing weight, but it's all muscle.

Honestly, Malone (at age 28) and LeBron now are more comparable. LeBron is just a far better athlete.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:01 PM
Also no CHarles Barkley is 6'6.

no, he is not. I have seen him up close. He WAS around 6'4" when he played. Even more impressive considering what he was able to do.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:01 PM
read it again. you've got it backwards.

this has been stimulating.

Yeah sure dude. It's only Charles Barkley I'm quoting. I'm sure he's wrong though. Doesn't know how tall he is LOL.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:02 PM
no, he is not. I have seen him up close. He WAS around 6'4" when he played. Even more impressive considering what he was able to do.

When did you exactly see him? At the end of his playing career? He says he was measured out of college at 6'6 but the NBA listed him at 6'8. Yet he's measured shorter. I'm guessing later in his career he lost a little height which isn't uncommon.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:02 PM
all he's gotta do is hold high. I think with McHale in his head, hell clean up this bad habit. he's gona need to, and getting your shoulders injured is as good a motivation as any.

agreed, but hard to change a 15 year old habit.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 07:03 PM
LeBron is around 4 inches taller than Barkley, but the same playing weight, but it's all muscle.

Honestly, Malone (at age 28) and LeBron now are more comparable. LeBron is just a far better athlete.
good point, but we're really not talking about that big of a difference between LBJ and Howard:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3357/3583229870_feb827211c_z.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/basketball/nba/lebron-james-watch/2010/06/dwight-lebron.jpg
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1130/nba_a_jamehowa_580.jpg

dwight souches just a bit.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:04 PM
His mug shot online (which I'm guessing is with shoes on) has him about 6 feet 6 1/2 inches. The cops are lying I'm sure too though. This is just a big height conspiracy.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:06 PM
My bad it has him about 6 foot 7 maybe a little taller. So unless you think he's wearing stilettos.... Lol.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 07:06 PM
no, he is not. I have seen him up close. He WAS around 6'4" when he played. Even more impressive considering what he was able to do.


Yeah sure dude. It's only Charles Barkley I'm quoting. I'm sure he's wrong though. Doesn't know how tall he is LOL.
the problem is that you read what you want to read (or you're trolling?). if you took the time to read the article, you would understand the context in which the quote was made and it would be obvious as to what he's implying. he was measured taller in college (6'6) because that's what the schools use to do; in reality he's 6'4.75. read the article.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:07 PM
When did you exactly see him? At the end of his playing career? He says he was measured out of college at 6'6 but the NBA listed him at 6'8. Yet he's measured shorter. I'm guessing later in his career he lost a little height which isn't uncommon.

Saw him in person in 1993, met him in person with my dad, who was 6'6" at the time. My dad was clearly taller.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:08 PM
the problem is that you read what you want to read (or you're trolling?). if you took the time to read the article, you would understand the context in which the quote was made and it would be obvious as to what he's implying. he was measured taller in college (6'6) because that's what the schools use to do; in reality he's 6'4.75. read the article.

So you're going to ignore the quote I did on you that was actually relevant to this thread, and get in an argument about Barkley? Man for a mod you sure don't know how to keep threads on topic.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:08 PM
His mug shot online (which I'm guessing is with shoes on) has him about 6 feet 6 1/2 inches. The cops are lying I'm sure too though. This is just a big height conspiracy.

in shoes. Honestly, not going to continue to argue about Chucks height, he was way short for the position. Bron towers over him.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 07:08 PM
So you're going to ignore the quote I did on you that was actually relevant to this thread, and get in an argument about Barkley? Man for a mod you sure don't know how to keep threads on topic.

you're decent at what you do. i've seen better.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:09 PM
Saw him in person in 1993, met him in person with my dad, who was 6'6" at the time. My dad was clearly taller.

Sorry man his mugshot is as clear as day. He's clearly 6 foot 7 in the picture if not slightly taller. I don't know if they had him wear shoes in the picture or not. I'm guessing he was.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:09 PM
you're decent at what you do. i've seen better.

That's funny because you're pretty horrible at avoiding topics, and changing the subject.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:10 PM
Sorry man his mugshot is as clear as day. He's clearly 6 foot 7 in the picture if not slightly taller. I don't know if they had him wear shoes in the picture or not. I'm guessing he was.

yeah, like I said, I don't care to argue this point anymore. I saw him next to my dad, who was 6'6" at the time, and Barkley was easily and inch+ shorter. So that is my perspective.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:12 PM
btw, last time. Do you realize mug shots are taken by normal humans, who literally measure 4-8 inches shorter than Chuck? The shot was upward. I have seen them. One of them (front) looks like he measures in at 6'8". The side profile looks like he is 6'5.5". So using that doesn't work.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:14 PM
Not even trying to talk about Barkley. He's the one that keeps bringing it up. I'm trying to talk about how he said Dwight will never be a great bigman. He's conveniently ignoring the post I quoted htough, and moving to the Barkley conversation.

Now he's accusing me of being a troll. Nice behavior for a MOD. Makes the thread go off topic, and now he's trying to accuse me of trolling. Can anyone say.

D B A G

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:16 PM
Not even trying to talk about Barkley. He's the one that keeps bringing it up. I'm trying to talk about how he said Dwight will never be a great bigman. He's conveniently ignoring the post I quoted htough, and moving to the Barkley conversation.

Now he's accusing me of being a troll. Nice behavior for a MOD. Makes the thread go off topic, and now he's trying to accuse me of trolling. Can anyone say.

D B A G

When did Bruno claim Dwight isn't ALREADY a great big man, in this era?

The point is, at season #10, do we really expect Dwight to make a leap? That being said, if healthy, he is a top 5 player, and the biggest impact center in the game.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 07:17 PM
and Barkley came up because you erroneously said Bron resembles him. No, Craig Smith resembles Barkley, but with exponentially less talent.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 07:19 PM
btw, last time. Do you realize mug shots are taken by normal humans, who literally measure 4-8 inches shorter than Chuck? The shot was upward. I have seen them. One of them (front) looks like he measures in at 6'8". The side profile looks like he is 6'5.5". So using that doesn't work.

Charles was shorter than MJ. that was obvious to anyone who watched ball in the 90's.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:21 PM
When did Bruno claim Dwight isn't ALREADY a great big man, in this era?

The point is, at season #10, do we really expect Dwight to make a leap? That being said, if healthy, he is a top 5 player, and the biggest impact center in the game.

Did we expect LBJ to improve his post game randomly at 28? Did we expect Kobe to improve his?

The point being saying he will never be a great bigman is straight disrespectful and stupid. He's already great, and if he even slightly improves his offensive game he'll be a top 10 maybe even a top 5 Center in the league (ever). Like you've (or somebody else) already said. He really doesn't need to do much. He needs to hit more free throws, and stop turning the ball over so much in the post. That's not asking him to become a 100% different player in one year. It's asking him to make slight adjustments.

Even if he didn't he'd still be a top 10 all time at the rate he's playing. He's a great rebounder, and a terrific defender. One of the best defensive Center of all time. He runs circles around Shaq/KAJ/Hakeem when it comes to interior defense (Hakeem was better on the switch).

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:22 PM
Charles was shorter than MJ. that was obvious to anyone who watched ball in the 90's.

Dude seriously I'm going to report you for being off topic if you don't STFU.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 07:25 PM
in defense of dwight, I've heard that he's 6'9 barefoot. he's no where close to being a legit seven footer. am i wrong to say that he's a lot more like Karl Malone in physical stature/build than the other great centers of eras past who he'll never live up to?

even if he returns to forum, his 2012-2013 campaign with the Lakers shines a light on what he'll look like later in his career when he loses his athleticism (his only advantage at the basket). he's gona get punked on the box when his athleticism leaves him. he'll get stripped every game and his shoulders will give out. book it.


Bam, and yes you are wrong you should be ashamed.

I know you're excited, but slow down and read it again. I said he will never live up to the great centers of eras past. Who are those players I referred to? Shaq, Hakeem, KAJ, Wilt, Malone, Russell. I never said he couldn't develop into a great center himself (he already displayed that from 2009-2011), I said he'd never reach the level of those elite centers, which is in no way an insult to Howard considering their greatness. he'll have to prove he can regain forum post-back surgery.


Go ahead man, but you were one of the ringleaders of the Laker goons when Dwight was picked up saying you guys were going to win 70 games. Has his game changed so drastically? What's the big difference? Or maybe you're just butt hurt and trying to straw man him.
:laugh2: quote me.


I remember saying the were going to be a 4th seed and you and 5 other dude jumped on me like a bunch of gang bangers. Now you're just trying to pass the blame off.

Once again.

Not

Buying

It
sorry, did I hurt your feelings?

Bruno
08-16-2013, 07:28 PM
Did we expect LBJ to improve his post game randomly at 28? Did we expect Kobe to improve his?

The point being saying he will never be a great bigman is straight disrespectful and stupid. He's already great, and if he even slightly improves his offensive game he'll be a top 10 maybe even a top 5 Center in the league (ever). Like you've (or somebody else) already said. He really doesn't need to do much. He needs to hit more free throws, and stop turning the ball over so much in the post. That's not asking him to become a 100% different player in one year. It's asking him to make slight adjustments.

Even if he didn't he'd still be a top 10 all time at the rate he's playing. He's a great rebounder, and a terrific defender. One of the best defensive Center of all time. He runs circles around Shaq/KAJ/Hakeem when it comes to interior defense (Hakeem was better on the switch).

i dont think you comprehend how difficult it is to come back from back surgery. Kobe and LeBron have had tremendous good fortune regarding their health.

and no, dwight will never come close to cracking the top five centers list.

dwight runs circles around Hakeem defensively? i'm checking out.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:30 PM
i dont think you comprehend how difficult it is to come back from back surgery. Kobe and LeBron have had tremendous good fortune regarding their health.

and no, dwight will never come close to cracking the top five centers list.

dwight runs circles around Hakeem defensively? i'm checking out.

Uh I've had back surgery before so try again.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:32 PM
He's a better perimeter defender, but Hakeem was great at switching.

You can't even admit he's one of the greatest defensive centers of all time. Cute.

I love Hakeem man. Great offensively and defensively. AND JUST LIKE DWIGHT HE WAS SMALL.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 07:33 PM
If we're talking offensively Hakeem makes him look like a child however.

Bruno
08-16-2013, 07:44 PM
No honestly you're just another dumb Lakers troll.

So if the Rockets won the next 5 rings he'll still won't be great in your closed mind. Lakers fan Bruno knows all.
never gona happen so cares? He'll be lucky to get one by the time he's out of his prime.

go ahead and fine the quote where I said the Laker would win 70 games :laugh2:


Uh I've had back surgery before so try again.
then you should know, this could go either way. playing through an entire season at 80% isn't going to help his recovery back to full form.


He's a better perimeter defender, but Hakeem was great at switching.

You can't even admit he's one of the greatest defensive centers of all time. Cute.

I love Hakeem man. Great offensively and defensively. AND JUST LIKE DWIGHT HE WAS SMALL.
Howard has the DPOY to show for it, of course he's a great defender (I gave him credit for this before our exchange, but your probably chose to selectively ignore it). But basketball is a two way game, that is what we are talking about. Offense. nobody questions his defense.

you can get away with being 6'10 or 6'11 in shoes when your post game is that legendary.


If we're talking offensively Hakeem makes him look like a child however.

:clap:

BigCityofDreams
08-16-2013, 08:40 PM
you're decent at what you do. i've seen better.

That's that ether :cheers:

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 09:03 PM
never gona happen so cares? He'll be lucky to get one by the time he's out of his prime.

go ahead and fine the quote where I said the Laker would win 70 games :laugh2:


then you should know, this could go either way. playing through an entire season at 80% isn't going to help his recovery back to full form.


Howard has the DPOY to show for it, of course he's a great defender (I gave him credit for this before our exchange, but your probably chose to selectively ignore it). But basketball is a two way game, that is what we are talking about. Offense. nobody questions his defense.

you can get away with being 6'10 or 6'11 in shoes when your post game is that legendary.



:clap:

I apologize if I came off as harsh. I'm just getting tired of the same threads taking slights at Dwight. It's starting to really get on my nerves. I just see the same thing that happened with LBJ a few years ago, and it's starting over. Starts with the nit picking. Then if he doesn't win a title it's "he'll never win a title". Then if he does win it'll be "Harden's title, and not really his". Or "Dwight never comes up big in the clutch". Or "his game has already reached his limit and he'll probably start declining soon".

Shouldn't take it out on your one post, but it's a consistency I keep seeing. Not from you just from other people.

However I still think your comment on Malone having a similar build is off. He's closer to Hakeem IMO.

Also off topic, but no one is holding a camera in a mug shot. The camera is stationary, or used by a computer. Not trying to reopen the conversation just something I noticed in rereading.

ztilzer31
08-16-2013, 09:06 PM
As far as the back surgery goes it depends. From what I've read of Dwights back it's minor surgery. He should of been at full strength 4-6 months ago. If it still effects him the surgery didn't go well, and they need to do it again.

I thought his defense returned to form after the allstar break. In fact that was the major reason Lakers went on a run IMO.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 09:09 PM
Did we expect LBJ to improve his post game randomly at 28? Did we expect Kobe to improve his?


Yes, we can assume perimeter players with size to add that to their game at age 28. A player who has never left the low block since age 10? Meh, not so much.

jerellh528
08-16-2013, 10:32 PM
Sad....shoulda started working with Hakeem as soon as he got into the league.

Dwight doesn't seem to want the help/mentor. Kareem tried on him too, if kareem can't teach dwight post moves, i doubt hakeem could have much better success.

Bruno
08-17-2013, 12:34 PM
I apologize if I came off as harsh. I'm just getting tired of the same threads taking slights at Dwight. It's starting to really get on my nerves. I just see the same thing that happened with LBJ a few years ago, and it's starting over. Starts with the nit picking. Then if he doesn't win a title it's "he'll never win a title". Then if he does win it'll be "Harden's title, and not really his". Or "Dwight never comes up big in the clutch". Or "his game has already reached his limit and he'll probably start declining soon".

Shouldn't take it out on your one post, but it's a consistency I keep seeing. Not from you just from other people.

However I still think your comment on Malone having a similar build is off. He's closer to Hakeem IMO.

Also off topic, but no one is holding a camera in a mug shot. The camera is stationary, or used by a computer. Not trying to reopen the conversation just something I noticed in rereading.

Hey, me too. we're all good man :cheers:

FOBolous
08-17-2013, 04:21 PM
Every center in the league is "raw" compared to Hakeem

ztilzer31
08-18-2013, 12:24 PM
Hey, me too. we're all good man :cheers:

:cheers:

Sssmush
08-19-2013, 05:13 PM
LoL now everytime I hear the word "raw" used in the basketball context it makes me think of this.

Like Boston traded away Fab Melo, and reports said that he was "too raw" to play minutes for them; they got back some other brazilian who is also "raw" and so they might waive him.

It seems more and more hilarious to me that Hakeem just came out and said that Dwight Howard is "VERY raw."
Wow, I bet they will have some productive coaching sessions now, huh?

Or maybe Dwight told him day 1 "look dude, I appreciate your involvement, but you are NOT going to coach me."

Day 2 Hakeem says Dwight "very raw."

Day 3 McHale says they will try Dwight at power forward. :laugh:

knicksfan1969
08-19-2013, 10:30 PM
D12 is very raw b/c he has never worked at his craft.

Anyone go look at Hakeem 1st year in College at Houston then at 28 years old and you think OMG ...... clowns like D12 have improved so little as to be embarrassing. Even Ewing from 18 to 28. Dikembe for god sake.

Anyone who cares and plays in the post can develop a jump hook, an up and under, pivot-n-pop and post fade.

But when you are a lazy bum who cares not for his craft......

Asik's better
08-20-2013, 12:05 AM
D12 is very raw b/c he has never worked at his craft.

Anyone go look at Hakeem 1st year in College at Houston then at 28 years old and you think OMG ...... clowns like D12 have improved so little as to be embarrassing. Even Ewing from 18 to 28. Dikembe for god sake.

Anyone who cares and plays in the post can develop a jump hook, an up and under, pivot-n-pop and post fade.

But when you are a lazy bum who cares not for his craft......

LoL now everytime I hear the word "raw" used in the basketball context it makes me think of this.




Like Boston traded away Fab Melo, and reports said that he was "too raw" to play minutes for them; they got back some other brazilian who is also "raw" and so they might waive him.*




It seems more and more hilarious to me that Hakeem just came out and said that Dwight Howard is "VERY raw."*
Wow, I bet they will have some productive coaching sessions now, huh?*




Or maybe Dwight told him day 1 "look dude, I appreciate your involvement, but you are NOT going to coach me."




Day 2 Hakeem says Dwight "very raw."




Day 3 McHale says they will try Dwight at power forward. *:laugh:

These two posts are the reason why some people shouldn't have the Internet

Sssmush
08-20-2013, 06:19 AM
These two posts are the reason why some people shouldn't have the Internet

Well for sure we'd probably both get a lot more done everyday, no doubt.

kobe4thewinbang
08-22-2013, 09:09 PM
A Laker fan in a different thread actually said he's Kwame Brown 2.0. Funny that you'd say that lol.

It's just them switching focus. Now that no one will listen to them talk about how bad Lebron is they'll move to Dwight.he gets 20+ when he shoots 60 free throws, or when Nash throws 100 oops to him. Even worse is the fact that D12 is NOT an impact player. When he did have high points, LA got blown out or lost. He never got the ball otherwise because he has no post moves and won't fight to get open on the block. He can't even post up properly.

Also to the people dogging Shaq, that man was a beast. He had that little shot in the paint that went in most of the time, good footwork despite traveling a lot, and he would dunk on the other team at will. Oh, and he made plenty more free throws than D12. Completely dominant when he wasn't injured. Dwight just sucks.

ztilzer31
08-22-2013, 09:31 PM
he gets 20+ when he shoots 60 free throws, or when Nash throws 100 oops to him. Even worse is the fact that D12 is NOT an impact player. When he did have high points, LA got blown out or lost. He never got the ball otherwise because he has no post moves and won't fight to get open on the block. He can't even post up properly.

Also to the people dogging Shaq, that man was a beast. He had that little shot in the paint that went in most of the time, good footwork despite traveling a lot, and he would dunk on the other team at will. Oh, and he made plenty more free throws than D12. Completely dominant when he wasn't injured. Dwight just sucks.

Dwight Howard is an impact player on defense not offense. Nash didn't even throw 100 alley oops in a season, and Shaq was just as bad at free throws as Dwight.

kobe4thewinbang
08-23-2013, 02:38 AM
Dwight Howard is an impact player on defense not offense. Nash didn't even throw 100 alley oops in a season, and Shaq was just as bad at free throws as Dwight.Dwight's post game in a nutshell: http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2547631/howardfoul.gif

Shaq > Dwight

Asik's better
08-23-2013, 03:30 AM
Kobe's jump shot in a nutshell:
http://youtu.be/3U3oH8FYeUM

Shaq > Kobe

See I can play this game too

kobe4thewinbang
08-23-2013, 10:41 PM
Kobe's jump shot in a nutshell:
http://youtu.be/3U3oH8FYeUM

Shaq > Kobe

See I can play this game tooWhat game? Are you trying to say Dwight is better than Kobe? Every player airballs. Kobe is one of the few players with the strength to shoot a fadeaway over two defenders and nail it, so try harder next time.

Asik's better
08-23-2013, 11:46 PM
What game? Are you trying to say Dwight is better than Kobe? Every player airballs. Kobe is one of the few players with the strength to shoot a fadeaway over two defenders and nail it, so try harder next time.

I'm pointing out how ridiculous your post was. But it's obvious it went over your head. I apologise and promise in the future I will dumb down my posts so you can get them in future.

kobe4thewinbang
08-24-2013, 04:17 AM
I'm pointing out how ridiculous your post was. But it's obvious it went over your head. I apologise and promise in the future I will dumb down my posts so you can get them in future.Is that what you were doing? I thought you were trying to prove how Dwight Howard is worth having on your team.

Asik's better
08-24-2013, 06:07 AM
Is that what you were doing? I thought you were trying to prove how Dwight Howard is worth having on your team.

I actually I didn't mention Dwight at all, but hey, I'm sure on day you will learn to read.

Tmath
08-24-2013, 09:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVajrV4GsC8&feature=player_em

kobe4thewinbang
08-24-2013, 01:03 PM
I actually I didn't mention Dwight at all, but hey, I'm sure on day you will learn to read.Then why even start saying idiotic stuff about Kobe? It's obvious that Kobe knows how to score compared to Dwight who looks like a lost child in the paint.

Asik's better
08-24-2013, 06:18 PM
Then why even start saying idiotic stuff about Kobe? It's obvious that Kobe knows how to score compared to Dwight who looks like a lost child in the paint.

Again I was pointing out how ridiculous your post was, I feel like english isn't your natural language.

MTar786
08-24-2013, 07:44 PM
hey rockets fans. i say this with all honesty. you guys will see how terrible dwight is on offense. imo he wasnt a great defender for us either. but maybe that was due to his back or whatever. so i could be wrong there. but trust me when i say this. he is garbage in the post. if i owned a team and i got dwight. it would be for his rebounding and defense. but no way in hell for anything offensively related. dwight is not tough either. he is like a little woman. maybe i am spoiled because i saw shaq in p&g for 8 years dominating and extremely tough. but dwight will not provide you with that. sadly he is by far the most over rated basketball player in the history of the nba.

kobe4thewinbang
08-24-2013, 08:47 PM
Again I was pointing out how ridiculous your post was, I feel like english isn't your natural language.See, the thing is, my post wasn't ridiculous. Dwight has no post game. I'm sure you'll see plenty of it next season. And he'll just keep on smiling at his mediocrity.

Tony_Starks
08-24-2013, 09:20 PM
Why do Rocket fans get so defensive about Dwight's lack of a post game? Forget about the Lakers, in ORL he was criticized about it for years. Shaq has talked about it for years. His old coach SVG talked about it last year... It's common knowledge, it doesn't make him a bad player though just a bad post player....

Chronz
08-24-2013, 09:29 PM
Why do Rocket fans get so defensive about Dwight's lack of a post game? Forget about the Lakers, in ORL he was criticized about it for years. Shaq has talked about it for years. His old coach SVG talked about it last year... It's common knowledge, it doesn't make him a bad player though just a bad post player....

He led the league in post scoring during his years with Orlando. How do you lead the league in scoring by having no post game? Its one thing to not have post moves, that speaks to an array of go-to's and counters, but thats not the same as a being a dependable post-up player. Which Dwight was becoming while with Orlando.

Tony_Starks
08-24-2013, 09:36 PM
He led the league in post scoring during his years with Orlando. How do you lead the league in scoring by having no post game? Its one thing to not have post moves, that speaks to an array of go-to's and counters, but thats not the same as a being a dependable post-up player. Which Dwight was becoming while with Orlando.

You've watched hoops long enough to know that points in the paint does not= being a good post player. Tyson Chandler gets plenty of points in the paint is he a good post player?

Did D12 not like lead the league in dunks one season? I'm just saying he's not a good back to the basket player. Now if you're looking for lobs, tip dunks, hustle points, and beating the other center down the floor then he's your guy...

Kevj77
08-25-2013, 03:09 AM
As a Lakers fan I'm obviously not a fan of Dwight anymore. Having said that not everyone has the same skill set. Howard is a hustle player and power player on offense and a defensive anchor. He doesn't have post moves like Hakeem or accurate mini hook. Not many people do.

He can be a good second option on most teams and defensive leader on any team, but he needs to accept that if he want to not be a cancer and become a leader.

Asik's better
08-25-2013, 03:19 AM
See, the thing is, my post wasn't ridiculous. Dwight has no post game. I'm sure you'll see plenty of it next season. And he'll just keep on smiling at his mediocrity.

It was because you picked a gif that proves nothing about his post game. It seems you just picked a random gif and tried to make it work but it didnt. We all make bad posts, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and try again.

Verbal Christ
08-25-2013, 12:58 PM
I guess some people just expect D12 to put up 30/20/5/5 every night, all the while doing it with spins, sky hooks, 18 footers and baseline fadeaways.

I'll take the 20/10/3 every game, by out muscling, out hustling and out working his competition. Dwight wont' be a HOF'er , I don't think any Rocket/Laker/Magic fan will argue that, but he is the premier post force in the game today, to argue that is futile.

Tony_Starks
08-25-2013, 01:46 PM
As a Lakers fan I'm obviously not a fan of Dwight anymore. Having said that not everyone has the same skill set. Howard is a hustle player and power player on offense and a defensive anchor. He doesn't have post moves like Hakeem or accurate mini hook. Not many people do.

He can be a good second option on most teams and defensive leader on any team, but he needs to accept that if he want to not be a cancer and become a leader.


If he could accept reality and realize that his main focus should be to dominate the game defensively and take the offense as it comes he could be almost at a MVP level.

But instead he still thinks he's #1 throw the ball in the post option and starts to slack on D and create a media distraction when he doesn't feel he's getting the ball enough...

Chronz
08-25-2013, 06:48 PM
He led the league in post scoring during his years with Orlando. How do you lead the league in scoring by having no post game? Its one thing to not have post moves, that speaks to an array of go-to's and counters, but thats not the same as a being a dependable post-up player. Which Dwight was becoming while with Orlando.

You've watched hoops long enough to know that points in the paint does not= being a good post player. Tyson Chandler gets plenty of points in the paint is he a good post player?

Did D12 not like lead the league in dunks one season? I'm just saying he's not a good back to the basket player. Now if you're looking for lobs, tip dunks, hustle points, and beating the other center down the floor then he's your guy...
Dude where did I say points in the paint = post scoring?
You've been here long enough to not rely on straws, leave that for the lesser laker fans

ldawg
08-26-2013, 03:12 AM
Dude where did I say points in the paint = post scoring?
You've been here long enough to not rely on straws, leave that for the lesser laker fansi dont care what the fancy stats say anyone with a tv saw Howard was not a good post up player. When Healthy Bynum is a way better post up player than Howard Not to mention Duncan. Lets just wait and see if Hakeem can get him there.

kobe4thewinbang
08-27-2013, 02:53 AM
It was because you picked a gif that proves nothing about his post game. It seems you just picked a random gif and tried to make it work but it didnt. We all make bad posts, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and try again.No, it makes perfect sense. Dwight constantly calls for the ball when he has no position in the paint, then he *****es about not getting the ball.

Asik's better
08-27-2013, 08:14 AM
No, it makes perfect sense. Dwight constantly calls for the ball when he has no position in the paint, then he *****es about not getting the ball.

Took me two mins to find this a better example:
http://youtu.be/DyNszY6JfE8
That's the diffrence between me, a expert at posting and you, an amateur. If you want more lessons, i will be more than happy to help you in the future to save yourself of more embarrassment.

mekedubs
08-27-2013, 09:21 AM
Dwight Howard is basically an athletic version of Dikembe Mutumbo....

mightybosstone
08-27-2013, 01:45 PM
Dwight Howard is basically an athletic version of Dikembe Mutumbo....

Wow....Exaggerate much?

Chronz
08-27-2013, 01:52 PM
i dont care what the fancy stats say anyone with a tv saw Howard was not a good post up player. When Healthy Bynum is a way better post up player than Howard Not to mention Duncan. Lets just wait and see if Hakeem can get him there.

How long has your TV been tuned in to Dwight? The fancy stats say Howard was an inefficient post player last year. My eyes agreed. We ALL saw Dwight play poorly down on the blocks last year.

But thats 1 year, coming off injury and playing in an odd system. Should I ignore what he did the 3 years prior?

Hawkeye15
08-27-2013, 02:00 PM
Dwight Howard is basically an athletic version of Dikembe Mutumbo....

not so much

C_Mund
08-27-2013, 02:30 PM
When will people stop this carousel? We all know that the real argument isn't about good/bad and stats/eye test. The argument has become about skilled vs. effective. Why not just agree? His post game looks rigid and forced, he has few very moves with his back to the basket, he's not a shooter, he doesn't pass or handle the ball well. BUT HE'S VERY EFFECTIVE AND SCORES LOTS OF POINTS. The end.

mekedubs
08-27-2013, 02:36 PM
not so much

If Mutumbo was as "athletic" as Dwight, I think he could have averaged 9 more points a game being that Dikembe's career average was about 9 points... Howard has only averaged 18 points over his career with 12 rebounds thus far and he's still very "raw" offensively...

D-Leethal
08-27-2013, 02:37 PM
raw like cocaine straight from Bolivia

mightybosstone
08-27-2013, 02:43 PM
If Mutumbo was as "athletic" as Dwight, I think he could have averaged 9 more points a game being that Dikembe's career average was about 9 points... Howard has only averaged 18 points over his career with 12 rebounds thus far and he's still very "raw" offensively...

But that's a massive overstatement. That's like saying "If I was 7'2" and 300 pounds, I could play like Shaq." First off, it's not true. Secondly, a lot more goes into it than natural size or athleticism. Mutumbo didn't have the handle or the offensive awareness that Dwight does.

It's just one of those pointless hypothetical statements that's meant to demean one player by comparing him to another. Just stop.

kobe4thewinbang
08-27-2013, 06:49 PM
Took me two mins to find this a better example:
http://youtu.be/DyNszY6JfE8
That's the diffrence between me, a expert at posting and you, an amateur. If you want more lessons, i will be more than happy to help you in the future to save yourself of more embarrassment.Ha, an expert? You on a new drug called ego booster? I'm not embarrassed at all. Everybody and their dog knows Dwight has no post game.

mekedubs
08-27-2013, 07:23 PM
But that's a massive overstatement. That's like saying "If I was 7'2" and 300 pounds, I could play like Shaq." First off, it's not true. Secondly, a lot more goes into it than natural size or athleticism. Mutumbo didn't have the handle or the offensive awareness that Dwight does.

It's just one of those pointless hypothetical statements that's meant to demean one player by comparing him to another. Just stop.
No it's not an overstatement, and I'm sorry you feel that way... But saying that if you were as big as Shaq you could play like him
has no bearing for this argument because first of all, who are you?? I've never seen you play basketball.... And secondly it's not like I'm comparing Kendrick Perkins to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. I'm comparing a 8x all-star, 4x DPOY, 2x rebounding champion and 3x block champion to Dwight Howard...
Like this thread stated Olajuwon (a NBA legend), said that Howard was very "raw" offensively and this is his 10th year in the league.... Like I said if Mutombo was as "athletic", ____________.

Tony_Starks
08-27-2013, 07:48 PM
When will people stop this carousel? We all know that the real argument isn't about good/bad and stats/eye test. The argument has become about skilled vs. effective. Why not just agree? His post game looks rigid and forced, he has few very moves with his back to the basket, he's not a shooter, he doesn't pass or handle the ball well. BUT HE'S VERY EFFECTIVE AND SCORES LOTS OF POINTS. The end.

That's because people get sensitive and take the fact that he's very limited in the post as some sort of diss. But like you said he's effective, there's no denying that he's just not a 1st option on a contender....

Asik's better
08-27-2013, 08:10 PM
Ha, an expert? You on a new drug called ego booster? I'm not embarrassed at all. Everybody and their dog knows Dwight has no post game.

Thank you for summing up why I'm just generally a better poster than you. I never said he had a post game. I even posted a clip pointing out his bad post game. I see potential in you I just don't think your ready yet. Maybe one day you will be ready, just not now.

mightybosstone
08-27-2013, 08:17 PM
No it's not an overstatement, and I'm sorry you feel that way... But saying that if you were as big as Shaq you could play like him
has no bearing for this argument because first of all, who are you?? I've never seen you play basketball.... And secondly it's not like I'm comparing Kendrick Perkins to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. I'm comparing a 8x all-star, 4x DPOY, 2x rebounding champion and 3x block champion to Dwight Howard...
Like this thread stated Olajuwon (a NBA legend), said that Howard was very "raw" offensively and this is his 10th year in the league.... Like I said if Mutombo was as "athletic", ____________.

And you're still wrong. Athleticism alone does not set those players apart. Mutumbo is not an offensively minded player in the first place and he doesn't have the hands to consistently put up 20 points a game like Howard does. Saying "if player X had ____, he'd be as good as player Y" is a **** argument, no matter who you're talking about.

Verbal Christ
08-27-2013, 09:32 PM
Deke could knock down a 10 footer, i'll give him that. Why do people use HOF'ers as the measuring stick for D12? He's not Dream, he's not Deke.

mekedubs
08-27-2013, 09:53 PM
And you're still wrong. Athleticism alone does not set those players apart. Mutumbo is not an offensively minded player in the first place and he doesn't have the hands to consistently put up 20 points a game like Howard does. Saying "if player X had ____, he'd be as good as player Y" is a **** argument, no matter who you're talking about.

According to what you're saying, Howard IS offensive minded???!!!! Wrong. Dwight is known for defense, and "slam dunk" championships don't qualify you as offensive minded.....

Verbal Christ
08-27-2013, 09:59 PM
According to what you're saying, Howard IS offensive minded???!!!! Wrong. Dwight is known for defense, and "slam dunk" championships don't qualify you as offensive minded.....


If slam dunking for 20 points a night is so easy why doesn't everybody else do it?

Ballperiodicals
08-28-2013, 11:43 AM
I agree he is "raw" but he's a real freak of natural he will get there soon. Shaq had to leave penny and take over a team to start winning rings

mekedubs
08-28-2013, 02:21 PM
raw like cocaine straight from Bolivia

I guess his hip-hop will rock and shock the nation, like the Emancipation Proclamation....:)

Sssmush
08-28-2013, 08:58 PM
The point I made last night in a thread that got deleted was this:

To me it looks like Houston kind of just stumbled into signing Dwight. I think that Houston had 100% given up on the idea of getting Dwight and had no realistic expectations of signing him (because he was with the Lakers), but, unbeknownst to them, Dwight had singled out Houston as his escape hatch. When the free agency circus started, Houston gets a call from Dwight's agent saying that he is very interested, so Houston jumps in the game. What Houston doesn't know is that Dwight has already set his heart on moving to Houston like 3 months ago and it is already a done deal. Like a flirtatious woman who has already decided months ago that she will marry the object of her flirtations at any cost, Dwight simply reels in Houston even while the Rockets management puts on a dog and pony show featuring Hakeem and Ralph Sampson etc, which Dwight no doubt merely tolerated. Of course once he's signed, Dwight basically tells Hakeem to go **** himself and Hakeem tells the media Dwight is "very raw."

But my point is that 3 months ago McHale had no pressure on him, none at all. NOW he has Dantoni style pressure on him, because the media is unfairly listing the Rockets as one of the top 3 or 4 title contenders, even after the abysmal Laker season we just watched.

Houston wasn't ready for this, they weren't ready for Howard, and despite what they say they haven't totally thought this through, at all. Just look at their roster: they have two starting centers and two starting point guards, and let's be honest, nothing else. I mean they have like Jones, Motiejunas, Cassipi, Garcia... each at near minimum salaries. And yet they are over the cap. And they have almost no trade assets accept for Omer Asik, who they will probably not get much for, and Jeremy Lin, who nobody is going to trade for on his current contract. And their cap number goes way up as those contracts escalate after next season.

So... this is no joke for Houston, and especially for Kevin McHale. Realistically, what reason is there to think that Houston will just start winning games like crazy now? And yet the expectations are so high... if/when Dwight gets disgruntled or unsatisfied or doesn't like being coached by McHale... how is McHale going to navigate that?

This looks to be a big story in the upcoming NBA season, possibly the biggest story. Essentially it's just season 3 of the "Dwightmare" but the stakes are significantly raised now in Houston.

Verbal Christ
08-28-2013, 10:16 PM
The point I made last night in a thread that got deleted was this:

To me it looks like Houston kind of just stumbled into signing Dwight. I think that Houston had 100% given up on the idea of getting Dwight and had no realistic expectations of signing him (because he was with the Lakers), but, unbeknownst to them, Dwight had singled out Houston as his escape hatch. When the free agency circus started, Houston gets a call from Dwight's agent saying that he is very interested, so Houston jumps in the game. What Houston doesn't know is that Dwight has already set his heart on moving to Houston like 3 months ago and it is already a done deal. Like a flirtatious woman who has already decided months ago that she will marry the object of her flirtations at any cost, Dwight simply reels in Houston even while the Rockets management puts on a dog and pony show featuring Hakeem and Ralph Sampson etc, which Dwight no doubt merely tolerated. Of course once he's signed, Dwight basically tells Hakeem to go **** himself and Hakeem tells the media Dwight is "very raw."

But my point is that 3 months ago McHale had no pressure on him, none at all. NOW he has Dantoni style pressure on him, because the media is unfairly listing the Rockets as one of the top 3 or 4 title contenders, even after the abysmal Laker season we just watched.

Houston wasn't ready for this, they weren't ready for Howard, and despite what they say they haven't totally thought this through, at all. Just look at their roster: they have two starting centers and two starting point guards, and let's be honest, nothing else. I mean they have like Jones, Motiejunas, Cassipi, Garcia... each at near minimum salaries. And yet they are over the cap. And they have almost no trade assets accept for Omer Asik, who they will probably not get much for, and Jeremy Lin, who nobody is going to trade for on his current contract. And their cap number goes way up as those contracts escalate after next season.

So... this is no joke for Houston, and especially for Kevin McHale. Realistically, what reason is there to think that Houston will just start winning games like crazy now? And yet the expectations are so high... if/when Dwight gets disgruntled or unsatisfied or doesn't like being coached by McHale... how is McHale going to navigate that?

This looks to be a big story in the upcoming NBA season, possibly the biggest story. Essentially it's just season 3 of the "Dwightmare" but the stakes are significantly raised now in Houston.

Sources for all that crap you just babbled? Oh no sources? Oh ok, so its like your opinion huh man? LOL

#stay LOL

Sssmush
08-29-2013, 01:41 AM
Sources for all that crap you just babbled? Oh no sources? Oh ok, so its like your opinion huh man? LOL

#stay LOL


Well, we just have to look at the clues we have.

We do know that there were stories in the media during the season that Houston had "moved on" and was looking for new ways to build their team because they believed that Dwight was almost certain to remain a Laker.

We also have the "Dwight is very raw" interview from Hakeem... which is MIND BLOWING if you think about it.

Next we have the stories coming out of Houston that the Rockets are thinking about experimenting with Dwight at power forward.

The roster/financial stuff I grabbed from the NBA Trade Machine, which you can easily Google. It shows that the Rockets are $4M over the cap, and that approximately 95% of their cap number is from Dwight, Omer Asik, Jeremy Lin and Harden. That is shocking to me, because it means that they basically only have two centers and two point guards and then some very marginal role players at or near the minimum salary line.

My assertion that McHale will now be facing huge pressure (whereas last year he wasn't) is just common sense. For Pete's sake you had Stephen A. Smith saying that Houston is now a legit NBA Title contender all over the national sports news!! Last year Houston got props just for making the playoffs. Think about it.

JayW_1023
08-30-2013, 04:09 AM
Gordon Ramsey: He's ***Ing raw!!!!!

OceanSpray
08-30-2013, 04:45 PM
The thing about dwight is he'll end up not using what he learned. The dude right now relies on 100% size and power. If he can furnish his game, he'll be impossible to stop. However, i think the best of howard is already behind him.

OceanSpray
08-30-2013, 05:01 PM
This thread has turned to a rockets vs lal debate. When dwight leaves rockets for another team, rocket fans will be pissed also. Jesus, you guys are so biased. Either he's good or bad. I'm pretty sure 90% of lal fans were more than thrilled when they got dwight.

Eagles4Lyfe
08-30-2013, 07:27 PM
The thing about dwight is he'll end up not using what he learned. The dude right now relies on 100% size and power. If he can furnish his game, he'll be impossible to stop. However, i think the best of howard is already behind him.

Spot on brother.
This guy should be there with Lebron, Durant in terms of unstoppable guys who you just have to hope for miracles against.
He should fall under the category of wasted talent

mightybosstone
08-30-2013, 07:49 PM
The point I made last night in a thread that got deleted was this:

To me it looks like Houston kind of just stumbled into signing Dwight. I think that Houston had 100% given up on the idea of getting Dwight and had no realistic expectations of signing him (because he was with the Lakers), but, unbeknownst to them, Dwight had singled out Houston as his escape hatch. When the free agency circus started, Houston gets a call from Dwight's agent saying that he is very interested, so Houston jumps in the game. What Houston doesn't know is that Dwight has already set his heart on moving to Houston like 3 months ago and it is already a done deal. Like a flirtatious woman who has already decided months ago that she will marry the object of her flirtations at any cost, Dwight simply reels in Houston even while the Rockets management puts on a dog and pony show featuring Hakeem and Ralph Sampson etc, which Dwight no doubt merely tolerated. Of course once he's signed, Dwight basically tells Hakeem to go **** himself and Hakeem tells the media Dwight is "very raw."
This is so blatantly wrong I'm not even sure what to say. But it takes a very delusional person to think this is true.


But my point is that 3 months ago McHale had no pressure on him, none at all. NOW he has Dantoni style pressure on him, because the media is unfairly listing the Rockets as one of the top 3 or 4 title contenders, even after the abysmal Laker season we just watched.
The Rockets have an offense tailor made for Dwight with two great pick and roll creators and a ton of excellent 3-point shooters. The Lakers traded for a player who is a square peg and tried to fit him into a round hole.


Houston wasn't ready for this, they weren't ready for Howard, and despite what they say they haven't totally thought this through, at all. Just look at their roster: they have two starting centers and two starting point guards, and let's be honest, nothing else.
You clearly know nothing about the Rockets. Chandler Parsons is a stud in the making, and you didn't even consider him on the list. The guy averaged 15.5/5.3/3.5 on .486/.385/.729 shooting and above average advanced numbers of a 15.3 PER and a .121 WS/48. And you called Harden a 1 when he's clearly a 2. ALSO, you aren't considering how good of a position they are to make a trade with Asik for a legit PF at the trade deadline or in next offseason.


I mean they have like Jones, Motiejunas, Cassipi, Garcia... each at near minimum salaries. And yet they are over the cap. And they have almost no trade assets accept for Omer Asik, who they will probably not get much for, and Jeremy Lin, who nobody is going to trade for on his current contract. And their cap number goes way up as those contracts escalate after next season.
Are you serious? Asik has a solid contract and is easily one of the 10 best defensive centers in the league. The Rockets could get plenty for him, and they have other young assets like Jones, Smith and Motiejunas who could net them a solid starting PF. But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jones turned out to be a solid starting PF this season, and they don't end up trading for one in the first place.


So... this is no joke for Houston, and especially for Kevin McHale. Realistically, what reason is there to think that Houston will just start winning games like crazy now? And yet the expectations are so high... if/when Dwight gets disgruntled or unsatisfied or doesn't like being coached by McHale... how is McHale going to navigate that?
Because they were the youngest team in the league last season, they were thrown together at the last minute and they still made the playoffs despite playing in a beastly conference. If they had added no players whatsoever, it would be fairly safe to assume they would improve by at least 5 games this season to a 50-win team. Now consider the significant upgrade at center, and they're likely to win even more games. This is likely at 55-60 win team, and they're only going to get better as the season progresses.

mightybosstone
08-30-2013, 07:53 PM
Well, we just have to look at the clues we have.

We do know that there were stories in the media during the season that Houston had "moved on" and was looking for new ways to build their team because they believed that Dwight was almost certain to remain a Laker.

We also have the "Dwight is very raw" interview from Hakeem... which is MIND BLOWING if you think about it.

Next we have the stories coming out of Houston that the Rockets are thinking about experimenting with Dwight at power forward.

The roster/financial stuff I grabbed from the NBA Trade Machine, which you can easily Google. It shows that the Rockets are $4M over the cap, and that approximately 95% of their cap number is from Dwight, Omer Asik, Jeremy Lin and Harden. That is shocking to me, because it means that they basically only have two centers and two point guards and then some very marginal role players at or near the minimum salary line.

My assertion that McHale will now be facing huge pressure (whereas last year he wasn't) is just common sense. For Pete's sake you had Stephen A. Smith saying that Houston is now a legit NBA Title contender all over the national sports news!! Last year Houston got props just for making the playoffs. Think about it.

Seriously. Your posts on this subject are pure trash. Anyone who thinks Dwight is getting the majority of his minutes at PF is an idiot. He'll probably play 5-10 minutes at PF organically in larger lineups, but he's not starting there. And your inability to recognize Parsons in any of your posts or to acknowledge Harden as a SG proves how little you know about this franchise.

Stick to your comfort zone and the Lakers. Leave the Rockets to people who actually know what the **** they're talking about.

RayderGurl
08-30-2013, 08:30 PM
Dwight has one shot...dunk


He aint no dream

DallasTrilla23
08-30-2013, 10:09 PM
The thing about dwight is he'll end up not using what he learned. The dude right now relies on 100% size and power. If he can furnish his game, he'll be impossible to stop. However, i think the best of howard is already behind him.

I remember everyone talking about how dwight led his team to the finals and he hadn't even peaked yet but looking back, that's probably as good as he's gonna get.

Cal827
08-30-2013, 10:20 PM
Lol, Dwight with a post game= Bynum with 3 point range

Verbal Christ
08-30-2013, 11:26 PM
'as good as he'll ever get' ... 'best days behind him'

okay, i'll still take the 20/10

Sssmush
08-30-2013, 11:58 PM
Seriously. Your posts on this subject are pure trash. Anyone who thinks Dwight is getting the majority of his minutes at PF is an idiot. He'll probably play 5-10 minutes at PF organically in larger lineups, but he's not starting there. And your inability to recognize Parsons in any of your posts or to acknowledge Harden as a SG proves how little you know about this franchise.

Stick to your comfort zone and the Lakers. Leave the Rockets to people who actually know what the **** they're talking about.


Think about it: If Houston wanted to make the best chance for themselves to sign Dwight, they would've traded Omer Asik and got a legit PF and maybe an SF also, or a backup shooting guard into the mix also. Right?
If they wanted to sign Dwight, or thought they had a chance, why would they keep a player at Dwight's same position, and go and talk to Dwight with basically a center and two PGs on their roster to make their pitch?
What kind of "championship supporting cast" is that? Why would they do that?

It's just so obvious the more I think about this, that Dwight in his mind had decided to leave LA and go to the Rockets. He probably decided this in January after the big team meeting when Kobe got on everybody's *** and told them to get it together. So, from then on, Dwight just had his heart pinned on Houston.

When the free agency circus started, Dwight had his agents talk to Houston. The Rockets went over the top with their presentation, bringing in Hakeem and Ralph Sampson, but YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT HELPED THE ROCKETS SIGN DWIGHT. Not at all, not even a little bit.

In fact, if we're realistic about it, the presence of Hakeem probably irritated the **** out of Dwight and had him gritting his teeth through every word that Hakeem said. After signing, Dwight probably just told Hakeem to get lost and told management hey get this guy out of my face.

Then Hakeem says Dwight is "very raw" and bingo, you haven't heard another word from Hakeem and you probably won't see him associated with the Rockets very much if at all from now on.

Tell me I'm wrong.

OceanSpray
08-31-2013, 02:57 AM
'as good as he'll ever get' ... 'best days behind him'

okay, i'll still take the 20/10

Hey, I said the best were behind him. 20/10 is certainly achievable for Dwight. We can't predict his impact but I just don't see him dominating like before. There are better big men today than 2-4 years ago.

Asik's better
08-31-2013, 08:07 AM
Think about it: If Houston wanted to make the best chance for themselves to sign Dwight, they would've traded Omer Asik and got a legit PF and maybe an SF also, or a backup shooting guard into the mix also. Right?
If they wanted to sign Dwight, or thought they had a chance, why would they keep a player at Dwight's same position, and go and talk to Dwight with basically a center and two PGs on their roster to make their pitch?
What kind of "championship supporting cast" is that? Why would they do that?

It's just so obvious the more I think about this, that Dwight in his mind had decided to leave LA and go to the Rockets. He probably decided this in January after the big team meeting when Kobe got on everybody's *** and told them to get it together. So, from then on, Dwight just had his heart pinned on Houston.

When the free agency circus started, Dwight had his agents talk to Houston. The Rockets went over the top with their presentation, bringing in Hakeem and Ralph Sampson, but YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT HELPED THE ROCKETS SIGN DWIGHT. Not at all, not even a little bit.

In fact, if we're realistic about it, the presence of Hakeem probably irritated the **** out of Dwight and had him gritting his teeth through every word that Hakeem said. After signing, Dwight probably just told Hakeem to get lost and told management hey get this guy out of my face.

Then Hakeem says Dwight is "very raw" and bingo, you haven't heard another word from Hakeem and you probably won't see him associated with the Rockets very much if at all from now on.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Your wrong

DallasTrilla23
08-31-2013, 09:04 AM
'as good as he'll ever get' ... 'best days behind him'

okay, i'll still take the 20/10

This Dwight is still the best center in the nba

Verbal Christ
08-31-2013, 11:56 AM
Think about it: If Houston wanted to make the best chance for themselves to sign Dwight, they would've traded Omer Asik and got a legit PF and maybe an SF also, or a backup shooting guard into the mix also. Right?
If they wanted to sign Dwight, or thought they had a chance, why would they keep a player at Dwight's same position, and go and talk to Dwight with basically a center and two PGs on their roster to make their pitch?
What kind of "championship supporting cast" is that? Why would they do that?

It's just so obvious the more I think about this, that Dwight in his mind had decided to leave LA and go to the Rockets. He probably decided this in January after the big team meeting when Kobe got on everybody's *** and told them to get it together. So, from then on, Dwight just had his heart pinned on Houston.

When the free agency circus started, Dwight had his agents talk to Houston. The Rockets went over the top with their presentation, bringing in Hakeem and Ralph Sampson, but YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT HELPED THE ROCKETS SIGN DWIGHT. Not at all, not even a little bit.

In fact, if we're realistic about it, the presence of Hakeem probably irritated the **** out of Dwight and had him gritting his teeth through every word that Hakeem said. After signing, Dwight probably just told Hakeem to get lost and told management hey get this guy out of my face.

Then Hakeem says Dwight is "very raw" and bingo, you haven't heard another word from Hakeem and you probably won't see him associated with the Rockets very much if at all from now on.

Tell me I'm wrong.

You do realize the Rockets had a deal on the table with Orlando at the trade deadline 2 years ago, knowing full well that it could very well be a rental right? In all your subjectively opinionated posts you talk about realism and the such and well lets use you logic: maybe, just maybe Dwight wanted to feel wanted? You know that little human aspect we all seem to have weirdly enough. Over 15,000 people braved 100 degree weather to welcome him to town, Houston trotted out all of their past legends to make Dwight feel WELCOMED, and not just a commodity as he was being treated in LA with their corny banners and their Hollywood attitude that "everyone wants to play here and we shouldnt have to pitch the team" OK, cool well it backfired with Dwight and instantaneously he was branded a quitter, a loser, a has been and a never will be.

Dwight Howard has sought out Dreams advice and coaching years before this free agency period started, so who do you think you are to assume that D12 was irritated by Dreams presence? I take it you haven't watched any of the pep rally, or the presser, Sure seemed like Dwight was having a good time, for the first time in quite awhile, but your logic would probably tell you that it was disingenuous right?

Realistically, your opinions and assumptions are so far off base that you do nothing but help fuel the Jilted LA fan reputation of the Laker fanbase. Pretty sad.

Sssmush
08-31-2013, 08:11 PM
You do realize the Rockets had a deal on the table with Orlando at the trade deadline 2 years ago, knowing full well that it could very well be a rental right? In all your subjectively opinionated posts you talk about realism and the such and well lets use you logic: maybe, just maybe Dwight wanted to feel wanted? You know that little human aspect we all seem to have weirdly enough. Over 15,000 people braved 100 degree weather to welcome him to town, Houston trotted out all of their past legends to make Dwight feel WELCOMED, and not just a commodity as he was being treated in LA with their corny banners and their Hollywood attitude that "everyone wants to play here and we shouldnt have to pitch the team" OK, cool well it backfired with Dwight and instantaneously he was branded a quitter, a loser, a has been and a never will be.

Dwight Howard has sought out Dreams advice and coaching years before this free agency period started, so who do you think you are to assume that D12 was irritated by Dreams presence? I take it you haven't watched any of the pep rally, or the presser, Sure seemed like Dwight was having a good time, for the first time in quite awhile, but your logic would probably tell you that it was disingenuous right?

Realistically, your opinions and assumptions are so far off base that you do nothing but help fuel the Jilted LA fan reputation of the Laker fanbase. Pretty sad.

Ok, well I did some research and it does turn out that Hakeem and Dwight have had a long and friendly relationship. http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/02/08/13/Olajuwon-thinks-Howard-will-stay-with-La/landing_magic.html?blockID=860847

So, I guess I was wrong about THAT one. However, this still doesn't explain why Hakeem would announce to the media after working out with Dwight that Dwight is "very raw," apparently to Dwight's displeasure, since Dwight hasn't spoken about those comments, and hasn't mentioned Hakeem since.

I still stand by my hypothesis that Dwight had already made up his mind to go to Houston specifically, long before free agency began, and that Hakeem's presence at the meeting made absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Sssmush
09-03-2013, 03:27 AM
So, anyhow, going forward, we'll just have to see how many photos of Dwight and Hakeem hanging out together and being all chummy there are this year.

YashBoone
09-03-2013, 07:21 AM
so after all this time, howard is still raw????

i dont really know that thats a good thing.

my prediction is hes gonna have another **** season with the same issues and prima-donna ********

Asik's better
09-03-2013, 08:06 AM
so after all this time, howard is still raw????

i dont really know that thats a good thing.

my prediction is hes gonna have another **** season with the same issues and prima-donna ********

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the most ironic post in the history of man.