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sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 08:05 PM
"I'm so happy he's doing so well in Houston with his own team," said Durant. "I think he's the best guard in the league right now."

http://youtu.be/7aOF8kr_yzY


Chris Paul and Tony Parker are not amused :eyebrow:

I also wonder what Westbrook thinks about this. And most importantly, I wonder what the hell Sam Presti is thinking right now! He's probably busy making dinner for Perkins or something :p

Harden is the best SG in this league but I'm not sure he's a better player than CP3 and Parker.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 08:07 PM
BTW them saying that it's like Durant and Harden for a divorce but Durant got to keep custody of Westbrook....lmao I wonder if they said it cause they think of Westbrook as an immature kid with all his tactics and fashion choices.

Raid3r4lif3
08-14-2013, 08:09 PM
No he's not. Dragic is.

archdevil84
08-14-2013, 08:14 PM
next time houston is in town my boy mr.wade wil show who's boss!!!

smith&wesson
08-14-2013, 08:15 PM
durant must really miss having harden around... i wonder how westbrook feels about this statement.

lukass
08-14-2013, 08:16 PM
I agree he is the best and he can play the point very well when needed

ManRam
08-14-2013, 08:18 PM
Just another example of stars, past and present (*cough cough JordanShaqZeke cough cough*), not being the greatest talent evaporators.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 08:18 PM
No he's not. Dragic is.

That's the spirit. Soon, we may have to pull that "underrated" tag right off!

Preach brotha!

lukass
08-14-2013, 08:18 PM
next time houston is in town my boy mr.wade wil show who's boss!!!

if Wade is healthy and aggressive you have an argument but that's a big IF and Wades 3 ball is broke so id role with Harden

ldawg
08-14-2013, 08:18 PM
i think he meant to say sg.

dtmagnet
08-14-2013, 08:21 PM
If you don't include the point guards then he's probably right.

tredigs
08-14-2013, 08:22 PM
Not surprising to hear him say it in relation to Cp3 or Parker or anyone else... other than Westbrook. We don't know the dynamic the 3 have though and how they viewed themselves in the pecking order even in OKC (between Harden and Westbrook at least). On the face it does seem like a slight shot to Westbrook (and in turn Presti) though.


i think he meant to say sg.

That's possible too. But he didn't. We'll see if he clarifies.

Sandman
08-14-2013, 08:22 PM
Should have moved Westbrook for Howard. Not on Howard's list? You think he would have walked away from KD let alone Harden or Westbrook too? Orlando would have jumped at the chance to get RWB on a long term deal. Orlando's GM came from OKC's front office. I don't know how the hell this didn't happen (even Harden for Howard instead), it would have made sense for EVERYBODY.

MrfadeawayJB
08-14-2013, 08:22 PM
Subliminal shot at presti?

Silent
08-14-2013, 08:25 PM
I Don't Disagree Best SG In The League

smith&wesson
08-14-2013, 08:28 PM
Subliminal shot at presti?

yup.

lukass
08-14-2013, 08:33 PM
Should have moved Westbrook for Howard. Not on Howard's list? You think he would have walked away from KD let alone Harden or Westbrook too? Orlando would have jumped at the chance to get RWB on a long term deal. Orlando's GM came from OKC's front office. I don't know how the hell this didn't happen (even Harden for Howard instead), it would have made sense for EVERYBODY.

that's a great point man. Howard/KD/Westbrook or Howard/KD/Harden = nasty! Maybe the signing of Serge messed that up tho

Sandman
08-14-2013, 08:47 PM
that's a great point man. Howard/KD/Westbrook or Howard/KD/Harden = nasty! Maybe the signing of Serge messed that up tho

what could have been

Serge would be great playing next to a dominant center too but I get where you're coming from with the $$

they were willing to give Harden like a 90% max or something weren't they? don't need Perkins anymore. there was some money there to make things happen.

I just wonder how that call went -- it had to have been made right? W/ Henigan coming from OKC its not like communication wasn't open.

LanceUpperCut
08-14-2013, 08:49 PM
I think it's pretty obvious he meant SG but if we want to make a mountain out of a mole hill then yes how dare he do that to Westbrook even if it is obvious that he's better.

b@llhog24
08-14-2013, 08:55 PM
He's not better than Cp3. Other than that, I've got no gripes with him saying that.

lukass
08-14-2013, 09:20 PM
He's not better than Cp3. Other than that, I've got no gripes with him saying that.

Its neck and neck between CP3, Harden, Westbrook, Rose but if I had to pick right now, id go with Harden I love his overall game. If Rose comes back MVP Rose well then its a different story

Verbal Christ
08-14-2013, 09:39 PM
When does Durant hit free agency? I wonder if he would listen to his homie Harden if it its within the next few years. Howard/Harden/Durant would be pretty sick.

BIG worm
08-14-2013, 09:53 PM
ya'll forgot about rose huh? In my Bart Scott voice...."Cant Wait!!!!"

lukass
08-14-2013, 10:07 PM
ya'll forgot about rose huh? In my Bart Scott voice...."Cant Wait!!!!"

look up a few post man, I wouldn't say y'all

showtym24
08-14-2013, 10:16 PM
Amazing how much disrespect kob gets.

b@llhog24
08-14-2013, 10:18 PM
Its neck and neck between CP3, Harden, Westbrook, Rose but if I had to pick right now, id go with Harden I love his overall game. If Rose comes back MVP Rose well then its a different story

Personal preference really plus with Rose and Westy's injury concerns pretty much leaves him as the last man standing, ya no? Also, while I do think that Rose's MVP season was better than Harden was last year, I'd take Harden as a prospect going forward.

jericho
08-14-2013, 10:25 PM
I think that if we use common sense we would understand that he meant SG not just all guards in general.

CluTcH_c1tY
08-14-2013, 10:33 PM
I think Harden is #2 Kobe is still the best. I hate the Lakers with a passion, but ill give Kobe his dues, he's still pretty incredible.

NYMetros
08-14-2013, 10:34 PM
Subliminal shot at presti?

looks like it.

MTar786
08-14-2013, 10:51 PM
lol thats funny

BKLYNpigeon
08-14-2013, 10:59 PM
most people in the country think so. whats the big deal?

SportsFanatic10
08-14-2013, 11:07 PM
if Wade is healthy and aggressive you have an argument but that's a big IF and Wades 3 ball is broke so id role with Harden

when wade is healthy he is better no question.

SportsFanatic10
08-14-2013, 11:08 PM
durant must be pissed that okc didn't keep harden instead of westbrook then since he just said he thinks harden is better than him lol.

4milesperday
08-14-2013, 11:20 PM
This may be the first time in league history the the "best SG" can't play defense. stop fooling yourselves, if Kobe or Wade were playing with those scrubs they will average more than Harden even at their age.

BIG worm
08-14-2013, 11:24 PM
This may be the first time in league history the the "best SG" can't play defense. stop fooling yourselves, if Kobe or Wade were playing with those scrubs they will average more than Harden even at their age.
I agree. I like Harden, but i dont build my team around Harden.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 11:29 PM
most people in the country think so. whats the big deal?
I don't most people in the country would take Harden over Chris Paul and Tony Parker. Hell, most people in the country probably wouldn't even take him over Kobe.

kswissdaf
08-14-2013, 11:37 PM
Should have moved Westbrook for Howard. Not on Howard's list? You think he would have walked away from KD let alone Harden or Westbrook too? Orlando would have jumped at the chance to get RWB on a long term deal. Orlando's GM came from OKC's front office. I don't know how the hell this didn't happen (even Harden for Howard instead), it would have made sense for EVERYBODY.


Disagree big time, for all of Westbrook's flaws he has a lot of fight in him, something Dwight or sometimes even KD lacks. Dwight doesnt have the heart he has, I used to be his biggest hater but he is the leader of OKC and KD while the better overall player isn't an Alpha dog or aggressive like Russell.

KINGBAIZE
08-14-2013, 11:50 PM
most people in the country think so. whats the big deal?


James Harden is nice, .... but he's not better than D. Rose or Kobe Bryant. Period. Thas just disrespectful to Kobe... and D. Rose will silence all critics this year!

rockets-fan
08-14-2013, 11:57 PM
Paul
Harden
Rose
Westy
Parker
Kobe

You can alternate those guys in so many orders with a good point for all of them....if I had to build my team I'd go

Rose (healthy)
Paul
Harden
Parker
Westy
Kobe

lakersiznumber1
08-15-2013, 12:18 AM
Chris Paul and Tony Parker are not amused :eyebrow:

I also wonder what Westbrook thinks about this. And most importantly, I wonder what the hell Sam Presti is thinking right now! He's probably busy making dinner for Perkins or something :p

Harden is the best SG in this league but I'm not sure he's a better player than CP3 and Parker.


lol what is durant smoking. He needs 2 stop smoking that **** only laker and heat hater believe this. kobe still number 1 and a healthy wade is still a close second. lol hes not even top 6 if u add pg lol
in no order

rose
kobe
parker
wade
cp3
westbrook

all these players are super stars harden is jus an all star

Sandman
08-15-2013, 12:24 AM
Disagree big time, for all of Westbrook's flaws he has a lot of fight in him, something Dwight or sometimes even KD lacks. Dwight doesnt have the heart he has, I used to be his biggest hater but he is the leader of OKC and KD while the better overall player isn't an Alpha dog or aggressive like Russell.

thats fine, OKC basically said the same thing by doing it but why not then Dwight for Harden/Perk. no way in hell it doesn't work for all parties involved even with OKC picking between Harden/RWB

numba1CHANGsta
08-15-2013, 12:38 AM
Rose? Parker? Paul? Kobe? Curry? Harden is in the mix but he is not the clear favorite as the best guard in the league

dalton749
08-15-2013, 12:39 AM
As far as wanting to build a championship team, harden is up there. Championships are won with an elite wing Player or big, hardly ever a pg.

In the current nba I think guys like Conley, Lowry, George hill etc. fit more of the championship pg mold than the cp3 and rose type players

ArmLaker
08-15-2013, 12:49 AM
Kobe? Paul? Wade? Curry? Westbrook? Parker? Rose?

I'm almost certain that this is a shot at their gm

Hawkeye15
08-15-2013, 12:54 AM
Guard? No, absolutely not. SG? He has a case depending on how Wade plays next year, I am factoring in we have seen the last of elite Kobe at this point, but if he can regain his level of play at that age, after that injury, he is with them too.

Paul and Parker were flat out better last season. Westbrook even has a case. Rose we will see what he looks like this year.

D1JM
08-15-2013, 01:03 AM
i think he meant to say sg.

that's what i think.

D1JM
08-15-2013, 01:06 AM
Guard? No, absolutely not. SG? He has a case depending on how Wade plays next year, I am factoring in we have seen the last of elite Kobe at this point, but if he can regain his level of play at that age, after that injury, he is with them too.

Paul and Parker were flat out better last season. Westbrook even has a case. RB]Rose we will see what he looks like this year.[/B]

is it against the law that this makes me horny? :o

amos1er
08-15-2013, 01:39 AM
Durant loses all credibility on this one. Terrible assessment. Kobe, Paul, Parker, Westbrook are all better. I think even Steph Curry will be better next season. Vastly overrated.

AI
08-15-2013, 01:54 AM
PG Westbrook
SG Harden
SF Durant
PF Green
C Ibaka

Oh, what could have been. :sigh:

Chrisclover
08-15-2013, 02:00 AM
injury really counts, so Wade is fading

next time houston is in town my boy mr.wade wil show who's boss!!!

Wade n Fade
08-15-2013, 02:11 AM
Wade is still a great guard. The mantle of best SG goes to Harden. He's just younger and healthier than Wade. Prime Wade > Harden though. Best guard in the league is CP3 and then TP. I think Kyrie Irving will surpass both in a couple of years. He has the potential to do so. This league has so many good PGs though. Curry, Irving, CP3, Wall, Lilliard, Rondo, Westbrook, TP, etc.

UPRock
08-15-2013, 02:17 AM
He's not only the best SG, but also one of the best singers ever.

sunsfan88
08-15-2013, 06:03 AM
is it against the law that this makes me horny? :o
No it just makes you gay.

Minimal
08-15-2013, 06:09 AM
Idiotic statement by Durant. Your teammate Westbrook is better than Harden and you say Harden is best guard in the league?

archdevil84
08-15-2013, 07:00 AM
i hope that wade can stay healthy this season and show everyone he's stil a very elite SG. Harden is good but i just hate his beard. it might not be true but i think wade > harden

eso
08-15-2013, 07:16 AM
that's what i think.

Did kobe retire??.

sunsfan88
08-15-2013, 07:28 AM
Did kobe retire??.

He should.

eso
08-15-2013, 07:54 AM
He should.

Why? So he can pass the torch to a bunch of spoilt no heart no loyalty I am little princess punks that are coming into the NBA these days... Man psd really gives guys like, Kobe and Wade no respect.. Both warriors both true ballers who wear their hearts on there sleeves.. People don't relise what they have until its gone and I'm sorry but NeedstoHardenup doesn't hold a candle to either....

eso
08-15-2013, 07:57 AM
i hope that wade can stay healthy this season and show everyone he's stil a very elite SG. Harden is good but i just hate his beard. it might not be true but i think wade > harden

It is true, SG pecking order goes.
Kobe
Wade
Harden...

The gap between Kobe and wade is slim but the drop of from both to harden is major....

dalton749
08-15-2013, 08:18 AM
Why? So he can pass the torch to a bunch of spoilt no heart no loyalty I am little princess punks that are coming into the NBA these days... Man psd really gives guys like, Kobe and Wade no respect.. Both warriors both true ballers who wear their hearts on there sleeves.. People don't relise what they have until its gone and I'm sorry but NeedstoHardenup doesn't hold a candle to either....

Kobe fans making up history as always

He demanded a ****ing trade and was all but gone to Chicago. If he were on any other team in the league he would have been gone from it for sure

xxplayerxx23
08-15-2013, 08:52 AM
I'd say Paul is better then harden, but besides that based off last year how many other guards are better? I'd think he has a strong case as the second best guard in the league, #1 shooting guard

Minimal
08-15-2013, 09:22 AM
Harden is not even the best SG yet. Kobe & arguably even unhealthy Wade are still better than him. He gets so much attention just because he is the new big thing. He is a high volume scorer with poor FG%, poor defender and haven't proved much in the playoffs. He might be the best SG in the league in future, but I can't put him there not yet.

D-Leethal
08-15-2013, 09:53 AM
I think its a stretch to say he's the best overall guard. I do think he is the best NBA SG. And by NBA SG I mean I don't think he is the best basketball player, that would still be Kobe, but he is the most successful in the NBA due to his playing style - i.e. driving the lane looking for contact and flopping for whistles.

Priority #1 when Harden drives - Look for a body to jump/ruin into
Priority #2 when Harden drives - Make sure you get that whistle!!!
Priority #3 when Harden drives - Try to make a basketball play and get a shot up

End result = 2 Fts and efficiency that make the stat heads drool. There are times where watching Harden and Parker play the whistle makes me want to vomit.

faze38
08-15-2013, 09:57 AM
Sg hands down sorry Wade and Kobe but Wade was the best for a year and Kobe had his time now it's Harden's!

sammyvine
08-15-2013, 12:54 PM
Just another example of stars, past and present (*cough cough JordanShaqZeke cough cough*), not being the greatest talent evaporators.

and you are?

SportsFanatic10
08-15-2013, 01:01 PM
No it just makes you gay.

lol


i hope that wade can stay healthy this season and show everyone he's stil a very elite SG. Harden is good but i just hate his beard. it might not be true but i think wade > harden

oh it's true, people have such short memories and can't see past lebron's shadow. wade is becoming one of the most underrated players in the league. wade doesn't care about stats and puts his team first, even though it hurts him individually. some people in here don't even have him on their list of elite guards listing players like paul, parker, rose, westbrook, curry, kobe, and of course harden and not even putting wade in their category LOL.

sammyvine
08-15-2013, 01:02 PM
durant must be pissed that okc didn't keep harden instead of westbrook then since he just said he thinks harden is better than him lol.

not really

i think he meant SG's

SportsFanatic10
08-15-2013, 01:05 PM
not really

i think he meant SG's

i don't. he said guards. i think he just got carried away trying to give him a compliment and made himself look like he's reaching a bit. i don't really think he's pissed though, that was just a joke. he's probably unhappy with okc management in general over their moves lately though.

Htownballa1622
08-15-2013, 01:08 PM
Harden is not even the best SG yet. Kobe & arguably even unhealthy Wade are still better than him. He gets so much attention just because he is the new big thing. He is a high volume scorer with poor FG%, poor defender and haven't proved much in the playoffs. He might be the best SG in the league in future, but I can't put him there not yet.

.600 ts% is better than .571 ts%

just saying.

Minimal
08-15-2013, 03:19 PM
.600 ts% is better than .571 ts%

just saying.
TS% and EFG% are really bad formulas to determine a scorer. There is no ultimate formula, atleast it is not approved.

Here are some shooting statistics:


Player
At The Rim
3-9 Feet
10-15 Feet
16-23 Feet
eFG


James Harden
63.0%
37.6%
28.9%
36.0%
54.8%


Kobe Bryant
69.7%
49.1%
51.6%
40.0%
49.2%


Dwyane Wade
74.7%
45.6%
41.7%
41.0%
38.7%



Harden is high volume scorer who has a poor efficiency at that. He scores so many points just because gets so many fouls called on him and good at FT shooting. He scores 8.6 out of his 25.9 points only on FTs.

D-Leethal
08-15-2013, 03:39 PM
TS% and EFG% are really bad formulas to determine a scorer. There is no ultimate formula, atleast it is not approved.

Here are some shooting statistics:


Player
At The Rim
3-9 Feet
10-15 Feet
16-23 Feet
eFG


James Harden
63.0%
37.6%
28.9%
36.0%
54.8%


Kobe Bryant
69.7%
49.1%
51.6%
40.0%
49.2%


Dwyane Wade
74.7%
45.6%
41.7%
41.0%
38.7%



Harden is high volume scorer who has a poor efficiency at that. He scores so many points just because gets so many fouls called on him and good at FT shooting. He scores 8.6 out of his 25.9 points only on FTs.

Wow. Nice post. Reaffirms my belief that a huge chunk of Hardens success is a product of today's NBA. Play the whistle, get to the FT line, watch the stat heads drool over your efficiency. I prefer dudes who play basketball and try to put the ball in the hoop.

ChiSox219
08-15-2013, 04:15 PM
Wow. Nice post. Reaffirms my belief that a huge chunk of Hardens success is a product of today's NBA. Play the whistle, get to the FT line, watch the stat heads drool over your efficiency. I prefer dudes who play basketball and try to put the ball in the hoop.

One of the basic fundamentals of basketball is that free throws are the most effective way to score. To discredit a player because he gets to the line a lot is just silly.

Harden also led the league in And 1s and made more 3's than Kobe and Wade combined, he can definitely put the ball in the hoop.

Ebbs
08-15-2013, 04:18 PM
Westbrook is probably not pleased even if he acts like he don't care

Baller1
08-15-2013, 04:18 PM
It is true, SG pecking order goes.
Kobe
Wade
Harden...

The gap between Kobe and wade is slim but the drop of from both to harden is major....

:laugh2:

No, it's not.

Baller1
08-15-2013, 04:20 PM
TS% and EFG% are really bad formulas to determine a scorer. There is no ultimate formula, atleast it is not approved.

Here are some shooting statistics:


Player
At The Rim
3-9 Feet
10-15 Feet
16-23 Feet
eFG


James Harden
63.0%
37.6%
28.9%
36.0%
54.8%


Kobe Bryant
69.7%
49.1%
51.6%
40.0%
49.2%


Dwyane Wade
74.7%
45.6%
41.7%
41.0%
38.7%



Harden is high volume scorer who has a poor efficiency at that. He scores so many points just because gets so many fouls called on him and good at FT shooting. He scores 8.6 out of his 25.9 points only on FTs.

Horrible way of looking at it, seriously. Are free throws not points? Are they not a method of scoring?

I ****ing hate when people use "good free throw shooting and lots of fouls" as an excuse for why a player is an overrated scorer, it's idiotic.

Htownballa1622
08-15-2013, 04:35 PM
TS% and EFG% are really bad formulas to determine a scorer. There is no ultimate formula, atleast it is not approved.

Here are some shooting statistics:


Player
At The Rim
3-9 Feet
10-15 Feet
16-23 Feet
eFG


James Harden
63.0%
37.6%
28.9%
36.0%
54.8%


Kobe Bryant
69.7%
49.1%
51.6%
40.0%
49.2%


Dwyane Wade
74.7%
45.6%
41.7%
41.0%
38.7%



Harden is high volume scorer who has a poor efficiency at that. He scores so many points just because gets so many fouls called on him and good at FT shooting. He scores 8.6 out of his 25.9 points only on FTs.

As many have asked. "Is getting to the free throw line bad?" So what if he scores getting free throws?

tredigs
08-15-2013, 04:40 PM
Wow. Nice post. Reaffirms my belief that a huge chunk of Hardens success is a product of today's NBA. Play the whistle, get to the FT line, watch the stat heads drool over your efficiency. I prefer dudes who play basketball and try to put the ball in the hoop.

If he didn't get fouled at the rim so much, his %'s there would jump. Hopefully that doesn't elude people. Plus, there's no better shot than the free throw for your team, so I say props to him for being the best at getting it. I somewhat get your point because he's a sneaky player in general as evidenced by his flopping ways, but hey if he's on your team that's just smart ball.

tredigs
08-15-2013, 04:43 PM
And I'm not sure if the debate has started yet, but to throw a stick in the fire - I do think 100% (ie second half/playoffs) Curry is a better player than Harden. He's the most dynamic offensive force I've seen in as long as I can remember (between his shooting/handling/playmaking ability). If he had Harden's ability to draw contact at the rim he'd be unstoppable.

Minimal
08-15-2013, 04:51 PM
Horrible way of looking at it, seriously. Are free throws not points? Are they not a method of scoring?

I ****ing hate when people use "good free throw shooting and lots of fouls" as an excuse for why a player is an overrated scorer, it's idiotic.
First of all check to who I was replying and check about what we were talking.
The way I look at it, as soon as Harden went to Houston and became "the man" his FTA rised dramatically. It's profitable for NBA to start promoting the new star and Houston franchise by helping Harden to become a better player when he actually is.

A lot of people say he is best SG in NBA, but not in my eyes, not yet. Poor shooting, poor defense, some poor playoff performances. Kobe & arguably Wade are still better than him imo.

torocan
08-15-2013, 04:57 PM
Best SG in the NBA? I think there's a case there. You could make an argument for Kobe, but Kobe's efficiency per possession is awful and has been for some time. Still a remarkable skill set and you could make an argument for Kobe off that.

As for Wade, Wade hasn't been Wade for a few seasons now. Sorry, but right now Harden is the better SG. Could Wade come back and turn back the clock? Sure. Until he does, Harden is currently playing better.

Don't think I would call Harden the best Guard in the NBA. He's up there, but you could easily toss in Tony Parker, CP3 and Rose into that mix and make cases for all of them, though Rose is a big ??? until we see him post rehab.

And yah, I'd take Harden over Westbrook any day. Harden is just a much smarter player right now. Let's not forget both of these guys are still very young so that could change.

Lastly, FT's count. They have for a very long time. Harden gets fouled and gets calls. That's the rules, and it's no different than sending Dwight to the line so he doesn't dunk on your face. The difference is Harden makes his FT's.

Shall we also forget that Harden was 2nd in FT's last year? #1 was Kevin Durant. Shall we discredit his shooting too over his FT's? Love it or hate it, Harden plays a smart game and that puts points on the board. And you can bet if he wasn't being fouled on the way to the basket his %age would go up.

Now whether you think they should call fouls less, that's an entirely different debate. However, it's all theoretical since we can't exactly chuck Harden in a time machine and see how he'd do under a different NBA can we?

tredigs
08-15-2013, 04:58 PM
First of all check to who I was replying and check about what we were talking.
The way I look at it, as soon as Harden went to Houston and became "the man" his FTA rised dramatically. It's profitable for NBA to start promoting the new star and Houston franchise by helping Harden to become a better player when he actually is.

A lot of people say he is best SG in NBA, but not in my eyes, not yet.

Nope, even as a 3rd option in OKC he was fantastic at drawing contact.

sunsfan88
08-15-2013, 06:33 PM
TS% and EFG% are really bad formulas to determine a scorer. There is no ultimate formula, atleast it is not approved.

Here are some shooting statistics:


Player
At The Rim
3-9 Feet
10-15 Feet
16-23 Feet
eFG


James Harden
63.0%
37.6%
28.9%
36.0%
54.8%


Kobe Bryant
69.7%
49.1%
51.6%
40.0%
49.2%


Dwyane Wade
74.7%
45.6%
41.7%
41.0%
38.7%



Harden is high volume scorer who has a poor efficiency at that. He scores so many points just because gets so many fouls called on him and good at FT shooting. He scores 8.6 out of his 25.9 points only on FTs.
Damn those are some telling stats. Harden imo is still a efficient player (overall) but I had no idea he was such a bad shooter and finisher. Wow.

Good post.

tredigs
08-15-2013, 07:39 PM
Damn those are some telling stats. Harden imo is still a efficient player (overall) but I had no idea he was such a bad shooter and finisher. Wow.

Good post.

The guy who shoots 85% from the line on huge volume and 37% from 3 on huge volume is "such a bad shooter". Gotchya.

He only takes 4 shots a game (not counting all his FT's) that aren't at directly at the rim or from 3 - he's not a good mid-range shooter, but he's smart enough not to take them, which is a good thing as they're the worst shot in the game.

D1JM
08-16-2013, 12:41 AM
no it just makes you gay.

:p

Baller1
08-16-2013, 01:25 AM
First of all check to who I was replying and check about what we were talking.
The way I look at it, as soon as Harden went to Houston and became "the man" his FTA rised dramatically. It's profitable for NBA to start promoting the new star and Houston franchise by helping Harden to become a better player when he actually is.

A lot of people say he is best SG in NBA, but not in my eyes, not yet. Poor shooting, poor defense, some poor playoff performances. Kobe & arguably Wade are still better than him imo.

Harden drew fouls at an insane rate in OKC too. Just because he shot more free throws this year, doesn't mean he didn't do the same as a member of OKC. He just played more and dominated the ball in Houston, that's where the difference lies.

Edit: Digs already mentioned it.

BRADfromOZ
08-16-2013, 03:52 AM
No he's not. Dragic is.
Two words... Mike James.

sunsfan88
09-26-2013, 01:47 AM
when wade is healthy he is better no question.

Lol I thought this was funny

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BU-yP-SCYAAoyt9.jpg

sunsfan88
09-26-2013, 01:52 AM
And I'm not sure if the debate has started yet, but to throw a stick in the fire - I do think 100% (ie second half/playoffs) Curry is a better player than Harden. He's the most dynamic offensive force I've seen in as long as I can remember (between his shooting/handling/playmaking ability). If he had Harden's ability to draw contact at the rim he'd be unstoppable.

How much of your opinion has to do with you being a Warriors fan though?

sunsfan88
09-26-2013, 01:55 AM
As many have asked. "Is getting to the free throw line bad?"
No but flopping is.

Chronz
09-26-2013, 06:25 PM
TS% and EFG% are really bad formulas to determine a scorer.
What if you're more interested in rating them as OFFENSIVE players?


There is no ultimate formula, atleast it is not approved.
Wat?


Harden is high volume scorer who has a poor efficiency at that.
Based on what?


He scores so many points just because gets so many fouls called on him and good at FT shooting. He scores 8.6 out of his 25.9 points only on FTs.
eFG% doesn't count FT/A, yet according to what you posted, he ranks higher in that regard as well. So much for that theory.

Chronz
09-26-2013, 06:27 PM
Damn those are some telling stats. Harden imo is still a efficient player (overall) but I had no idea he was such a bad shooter and finisher. Wow.

Good post.

That cant be accurate, I mean Wade has an eFG% of 38%. So yea, if by telling you mean uninformed, I agree.

South Side Sox
09-26-2013, 06:31 PM
If you don't include the point guards then he's probably right.

Agree.

Chronz
09-26-2013, 06:32 PM
First of all check to who I was replying and check about what we were talking.
When you misuse words like efficiency, you are in the wrong.



The way I look at it, as soon as Harden went to Houston and became "the man" his FTA rised dramatically.
Nobody cares about how you perceive things, just how you back them. For example, in OKC, Harden had a foul draw rate of 21%, it decreased to 20% in Houston. What confuses you is that you dont account for the difference in minutes/usage/pace etc... Look into the history of per minute rates and learn how to extrapolate to avoid this confusion in the future. Its not an exact science but you should always account for possessions in some way.



It's profitable for NBA to start promoting the new star and Houston franchise by helping Harden to become a better player when he actually is.
Cool story bro but people said that about Wade too. Was it true for him or just when its players you dont root for?


A lot of people say he is best SG in NBA, but not in my eyes, not yet. Poor shooting, poor defense, some poor playoff performances. Kobe & arguably Wade are still better than him imo.
They are all comparable. When healthy, I have Wade ahead of them both but thats such a rarity that you have to go with Harden, at least until Kobe returns to form or Wade proves capable of remaining healthy.

Chronz
09-26-2013, 06:36 PM
One of the basic fundamentals of basketball is that free throws are the most effective way to score. To discredit a player because he gets to the line a lot is just silly.

Harden also led the league in And 1s and made more 3's than Kobe and Wade combined, he can definitely put the ball in the hoop.

Yea but he prefers style over substance.

LAKERMANIA
09-26-2013, 06:53 PM
I guess that settles it then

tredigs
09-26-2013, 07:03 PM
How much of your opinion has to do with you being a Warriors fan though?

Probably some, though I've never been known to overrate the Warriors players or their team and I'm a fan of Harden's game. That said, both were awesome in the span I'm talking about, but Curry was better #'s wise until the bitter end when he finally re-twisted that ankle 2x against SA.

5ass
09-26-2013, 08:25 PM
he is the best sg right now, until kobe proves his injury wont slow him down.

FlashBolt
09-26-2013, 11:12 PM
I'm sorry but I'm starting to lose more respect for KD. Not liking this look from him. I hope he meant SG because WB is going to be looking at him like "What, what are you talking about, bruh"?

ghettosean
09-26-2013, 11:30 PM
Durant says Derrick Rose looks better than ever and now he's complimenting Harden too... The players these days are much different from the players of old... You wouldn't hear Shaq complimenting the competition like that or MJ talking about how great a guard Gary Payton is... Everyone in the NBA today is so buddy buddy now it's almost sickening... Would have been nice if he could have at least said something nice about Westy!

FlashBolt
09-26-2013, 11:34 PM
Durant says Derrick Rose looks better than ever and now he's complimenting Harden too... The players these days are much different from the players of old... You wouldn't hear Shaq complimenting the competition like that or MJ talking about how great a guard Gary Payton is... Everyone in the NBA today is so buddy buddy now it's almost sickening... Would have been nice if he could have at least said something nice about Westy!

I admit, I like the NBA when it's all tough. However, do you want your neighborhood fighting and scrambling like they did in the old days, or would you rather have them friendly? That's how most of the generation these days grow up. It's not as violent and society is just much different. If any of today's players played back then, they would have the same attitude because they wouldn't have known any better.

Hawkeye15
09-26-2013, 11:39 PM
If Wade regresses, sure, Harden is the best SG in the league.

If Harden decides to actually guard someone, he might make the case regardless, and I am factoring in that Kobe has a dropoff due to every circumstance he is facing entering this season.

ryang
09-26-2013, 11:39 PM
Ill take wade come playoff time every time.

Hawkeye15
09-26-2013, 11:40 PM
best guard? When speaking of both positions? Harden will not win that title imo. Not unless he turns into a defender even at an average level.

Hawkeye15
09-26-2013, 11:41 PM
Ill take wade come playoff time every time.

after the last 2 years? Eeeeck

ryang
09-26-2013, 11:57 PM
after the last 2 years? Eeeeck

Last two years? Look up his stats from last years finals. How's harden done? What are his career finals averages vs wades? Can't compare those two just yet IMO. Does harden have a chance to pass him? Well yea. Wades on the back 9. Re visit this after this year. Wades far from done and came up big last year in the finals regardless of what stats say. There are plenty of ways to impact the game without it showing up on a stat sheet. Still like wades production when the stage is biggest. Can't come close to saying that about harden.

ryang
09-26-2013, 11:59 PM
Trade wade for harden but only for this season and the Heat are not better off. Ask Riley to do a one year rental and he'd laugh. Strictly talking about one season (next year) not would you trade wade for harden.

JLynn943
09-27-2013, 12:03 AM
I don't think he's the best SG in the league let alone the best guard. He's clearly not better than Chris Paul though regardless.

FlashBolt
09-27-2013, 12:03 AM
Okay, let's see. On one side, you have a player who has the ability to produce more because he's on a team that relies strictly on him. On another side, you have a player who despite having knee and aging issues, is also limited to what he can do because they don't rely on him as much as Houston relies on Harden. If Harden was on Wade's spot, he would not be producing those numbers. He'd be a player who watches James and then has to fill in the blanks. I'm taking Wade. Those stats shown is not Wade. Wade would be putting up big time numbers if Heat didn't have James. Example, James Harden wasn't the most improved player because he really didn't improve. He just got more of an opportunity to showcase his skills. Put him back in OKC, is he not the same player? What has James done better?

SportsFanatic10
09-27-2013, 01:15 AM
i think durant might be taking subtle jabs at the okc front office for not keeping harden. anyways he's definitely wrong here.

UPRock
09-27-2013, 01:26 AM
I'd still take Wade, defense matters, and Kobe.

dwadefan45
09-27-2013, 01:32 AM
When does Durant hit free agency? I wonder if he would listen to his homie Harden if it its within the next few years. Howard/Harden/Durant would be pretty sick.

Can you imagine?

The Decision 3.0
Durant going to Harden's team ≈ LeBron going to Wade's team

Minimal
09-27-2013, 04:14 PM
Chris Paul, Russel Westbrook, Wade, Kobe are all better than Harden. Durant been smoking too much lately.

MTar786
09-27-2013, 09:16 PM
kobe and wade are much better imo

Blitzbolt
09-27-2013, 10:24 PM
Regular season cp 3 playoffs kobe and wade.

THE MTL
09-27-2013, 10:27 PM
I think durant meant SG.

DallasTrilla23
09-27-2013, 10:31 PM
I wonder how my big homie Kobe feels about this

alexander_37
09-28-2013, 01:49 AM
This may be the first time in league history the the "best SG" can't play defense. stop fooling yourselves, if Kobe or Wade were playing with those scrubs they will average more than Harden even at their age.

You realize that even at his worst Harden is a more efficient scorer than Kobe has EVER been in his entire career right?

FlashBolt
09-28-2013, 02:49 AM
You realize that even at his worst Harden is a more efficient scorer than Kobe has EVER been in his entire career right?

That doesn't mean he's the better scorer.. Higher TS% doesn't mean he can dominate like Kobe.

sagemania
09-28-2013, 05:14 AM
KD is not staying around in OKC if Presti sticks around. He is still furious of the highway robbery the Rockets pulled on his team.

alexander_37
09-28-2013, 12:52 PM
That doesn't mean he's the better scorer.. Higher TS% doesn't mean he can dominate like Kobe.

You mean he can't chuck like Kobe.

ryang
09-28-2013, 01:26 PM
Are people really comparing harden to Bryant and wade already? Or are you saying now that Bryant is old harden is playing better? Not really a suprise. Kobe is done for the most part but harden is not on his level yet and there is no guarantee he will be just because you say he chucks shots.

4milesperday
09-28-2013, 01:38 PM
I think people only rate players on one end of the floor. If harden is the best Sg then you must be willing to say he is better than Wade both offensively and defensively. Wade is more efficient offensively and way better defensively...all the Harden is better argument makes no sense, anyone will look good on a bad team. Kobe or Wade will drop atleast 30 a game on that team even at their age.

LoveMeOrHateMe
09-28-2013, 01:49 PM
Kobe and cp3 say hi!

ddt
09-28-2013, 02:25 PM
Mannnn did you forget Kobe? He is the best Guard on the league even when he's not playing or injured thru legacy alone.

b@llhog24
09-28-2013, 02:32 PM
Kobe and cp3 say hi!

:injury:

RLundi
09-28-2013, 03:20 PM
No arguments here.

ILLUSIONIST^248
09-28-2013, 04:15 PM
:injury:

http://youtu.be/ayxIs5Jx_oQ
Like butter.

beliges
09-28-2013, 04:15 PM
Don't think he's passed kobe yet. Even last season kobe outperformed Harden but as kobe ages Harden is definitely catching up. Id also take CP3 over Harden at this point.

tredigs
09-28-2013, 06:38 PM
He didn't outperform Harden, if anything you could argue they were equal, but I'd give Harden the edge. per game #'s and eye test seemed about equal, but Harden outclassed him handily in a lot of advanced stats.

beliges
09-28-2013, 07:57 PM
Are people really comparing harden to Bryant and wade already? Or are you saying now that Bryant is old harden is playing better? Not really a suprise. Kobe is done for the most part but harden is not on his level yet and there is no guarantee he will be just because you say he chucks shots.

Don't think anyones arguing that Harden will ever reach Kobes status. At least I hope not because that would be pretty much impossible.

b@llhog24
09-28-2013, 08:11 PM
Don't think anyones arguing that Harden will ever reach Kobes status. At least I hope not because that would be pretty much impossible.

Are those nuts salty or what?

amos1er
09-28-2013, 08:18 PM
Kobe, CP3, Rose, Parker, Wade, Rondo, and Curry are all better. That was just off the top of my head... I'm sure their are more.

Htownballa1622
09-28-2013, 09:48 PM
Kobe, CP3, Rose, Parker, Wade, Rondo, and Curry are all better. That was just off the top of my head... I'm sure their are more.

lol. Replace your sig with a pic of you and Illusionist.

ryang
09-28-2013, 09:52 PM
lol. Replace your sig with a pic of you and Illusionist.

That is illusstionist and amoser. Can't you tell with how bitter they both are? Finkle is inhorn. Inhorn is finkle.

John Walls Era
09-28-2013, 11:39 PM
Durants been talking a lot. He might be loving Harden a bit too much. Trying to rehash the relationship?

ryang
09-28-2013, 11:53 PM
Durant is just upset he's gone. Without him they won't get it done.

Sssmush
09-29-2013, 12:53 AM
I can understand Durant being very frustrated at this point: If OKC had kept Harden, together with Durant and Westbrook they would've continued their evolution and would very likely have returned to the Finals last year and would have either won their first title and be fixing to repeat or would be gearing up this year to DEFINITELY win their first.

Durant and Lebron would be head to head for who's the greatest, and in fact Durant might very well have an edge.

But now OKC has pulled this bone-headed series of moves and essentially just gave it all away, relegating OKC back to the pack in the west, jostling around with San Antonio, Memphis, Clippers and those teams when they could've (and were!!) head and shoulders dominant.

This must be incredibly frustrating for Durant, to now watch "The King" have an unobstructed path to the goal-line and get his 3-peat or 4-peat, after which we will never hear the end of how Lebron was the gweatest-ever and ever and ever and ever.

OKC basically dynamited a once in a lifetime championship dynasty core, and got nothing in return. It's really quite ridiculous and it looks more and more ridiculous everyday. I wouldn't be surprised to see Durant just leave OKC within a couple of years just to kind of reinvent himself and reboot his basketball career.

Chronz
09-29-2013, 01:11 AM
I can understand Durant being very frustrated at this point: If OKC had kept Harden, together with Durant and Westbrook they would've continued their evolution and would very likely have returned to the Finals last year and would have either won their first title and be fixing to repeat or would be gearing up this year to DEFINITELY win their first.

Durant and Lebron would be head to head for who's the greatest, and in fact Durant might very well have an edge.

But now OKC has pulled this bone-headed series of moves and essentially just gave it all away, relegating OKC back to the pack in the west, jostling around with San Antonio, Memphis, Clippers and those teams when they could've (and were!!) head and shoulders dominant.

This must be incredibly frustrating for Durant, to now watch "The King" have an unobstructed path to the goal-line and get his 3-peat or 4-peat, after which we will never hear the end of how Lebron was the gweatest-ever and ever and ever and ever.

OKC basically dynamited a once in a lifetime championship dynasty core, and got nothing in return. It's really quite ridiculous and it looks more and more ridiculous everyday. I wouldn't be surprised to see Durant just leave OKC within a couple of years just to kind of reinvent himself and reboot his basketball career.
Its similar to how Bron felt, wasting away his best seasons alongside the likes of Sasha Pavlovic and Mo Williams.

alexander_37
09-29-2013, 01:41 AM
I think people only rate players on one end of the floor. If harden is the best Sg then you must be willing to say he is better than Wade both offensively and defensively. Wade is more efficient offensively and way better defensively...all the Harden is better argument makes no sense, anyone will look good on a bad team. Kobe or Wade will drop atleast 30 a game on that team even at their age.

Wade TS% 571
Harden TS% 600

Harden put up 3.2 more points per game on .3 more shots..

Wade more efficient offensively .... what a joke, Harden scored more on the same amount of shots stop being such a homer.

ryang
09-29-2013, 02:32 AM
Wade TS% 571
Harden TS% 600

Harden put up 3.2 more points per game on .3 more shots..

Wade more efficient offensively .... what a joke, Harden scored more on the same amount of shots stop being such a homer.

Harden is not as good as wade or Bryant period. To think otherwise is well stupid. That is all.

sagemania
09-29-2013, 09:12 AM
Harden is not as good as wade or Bryant period. To think otherwise is well stupid. That is all.

He is just as good if not better then the current broken down version of Wade. Kobe is another case.

alexander_37
09-29-2013, 10:22 AM
Harden is not as good as wade or Bryant period. To think otherwise is well stupid. That is all.

Great analysis, you should be on T.V with statistical backing and well thought out arguments like that.

3RDASYSTEM
09-29-2013, 10:43 AM
Chris Paul and Tony Parker are not amused :eyebrow:

I also wonder what Westbrook thinks about this. And most importantly, I wonder what the hell Sam Presti is thinking right now! He's probably busy making dinner for Perkins or something :p

Harden is the best SG in this league but I'm not sure he's a better player than CP3 and Parker.

I can only imagine how CP3 feels on how a 6th man turned starter is now the best in the league, I just feel he has played more minutes along with higher usage rating, still same ole game from OKC, good player and I can only imagine if he was playing in LA/NY market, even more false hype, KD may have claimed he was the best player in the league if in a LA/NY market

HARDEN is not the best SG in the league, one of the top ones for sure but not the best, its really nothing he can do to be the best,the best are usually the best with the best day 1, year 2 max

there is no way in the hell you trade the best of anything at 23yrs of age in todays sports, no way

could you imagine DUNCAN or KG or AI or SHAQ or BRON or BIRD getting traded after 3rd year in league?

no because they are best of the best pre nba draft

a story is just that, and KD has been part of that this past offseason quite a bit

no wonder KD was cool with keeping RUSS over HARDEN, he kept the 2nd best out of those 2, HARDEN was the best SG according to him but KD is the 2nd best SF/player in the game according to most so he had to get rid of the best so he could be the best on OKC or no? why would you trade the best SG when you have a mvp candidate and right on BRON tail for best player in the league?

how did the incredible PRESTI foil this up? wait let me guess, the luxury tax

a so called 'billionaires' nightmare, the nba where amazing happens

3RDASYSTEM
09-29-2013, 10:47 AM
Wade TS% 571
Harden TS% 600

Harden put up 3.2 more points per game on .3 more shots..

Wade more efficient offensively .... what a joke, Harden scored more on the same amount of shots stop being such a homer.

basketball debate has become such a joke when you have to resort to a TS to try and compare, just go to WADE 2006 FINALS vs HARDEN 12' FINALS, they are the same players since that time and prior

that's how you compare

HARDEN is no WADE, but he is a damn good player nothing more nothing less, WADE is 1st-2nd team caliber, HARDEN is 3rd team or honorable mention caliber

its different levels of franchise players and WADE is clearly on higher level but that doesn't take away from HARDEN at all

and to use the psd formula and pretty much all of mainstream media, WADE has 3 rings and HARDEN has zero, end of story go ask the laker nation

ryang
09-29-2013, 10:54 AM
Great analysis, you should be on T.V with statistical backing and well thought out arguments like that.

And this forum and discussion Should be on tv so people could get a good laugh. Wade come playoff time is 10 times they overall player harden is.

ryang
09-29-2013, 10:55 AM
basketball debate has become such a joke when you have to resort to a TS to try and compare, just go to WADE 2006 FINALS vs HARDEN 12' FINALS, they are the same players since that time and prior

that's how you compare

HARDEN is no WADE, but he is a damn good player nothing more nothing less, WADE is 1st-2nd team caliber, HARDEN is 3rd team or honorable mention caliber

its different levels of franchise players and WADE is clearly on higher level but that doesn't take away from HARDEN at all

Pretty much sums it up

ryang
09-29-2013, 10:56 AM
He is just as good if not better then the current broken down version of Wade. Kobe is another case.

Check wades finals averages. Now try and find hardens. Ill wait.

tredigs
09-29-2013, 11:23 AM
Why would you directly compare a younger, 3rd option Harden to Wade's best season, though? Makes no sense. These next couple years will be the year/age/team/role to make the proper comparison.

alexander_37
09-29-2013, 11:40 AM
basketball debate has become such a joke when you have to resort to a TS to try and compare, just go to WADE 2006 FINALS vs HARDEN 12' FINALS, they are the same players since that time and prior

that's how you compare

HARDEN is no WADE, but he is a damn good player nothing more nothing less, WADE is 1st-2nd team caliber, HARDEN is 3rd team or honorable mention caliber

its different levels of franchise players and WADE is clearly on higher level but that doesn't take away from HARDEN at all

and to use the psd formula and pretty much all of mainstream media, WADE has 3 rings and HARDEN has zero, end of story go ask the laker nation

Oh my god.... This is just nonsensical rambling. Go watch more pretty dunks and stop trying to analyze basketball.

mdm692
09-29-2013, 11:54 AM
This year Harden becomes 1st tier. I predict he will be in the top 5 best players by the end of the season.

Sssmush
09-29-2013, 08:22 PM
He is just as good if not better then the current broken down version of Wade. Kobe is another case.

well, as to the original premise, I am not altogether sure about anointing Harden the "best SG in the league" just on his own, especially when Kobe is out there. Also, a healthy Wade has a certain athletic edge or magical quality that Harden probably doesn't have, some kind of Hall of Fame hops or quickness or vision (or all of the above) that is just a step beyond Harden; and of course Kobe is a scorer who is on a completely next level than Harden. A couple other players might factor into the conversation as well. But the argument could be made that we should project a young, healthy Harden to potentially be the best SG in the league now for this upcoming season, we'll just have to see. (As Tre pointed out, comparing Wade's best season's with Harden's OKC seasons isn't a proper comparison, we'll just have to evaluate it from here forward).

But the main point is that when Harden was in OKC he formed one part of a perfectly balanced 3-headed beast, his playmaking and defense and efficient scoring perfectly complementing Westbrook's insanely athletic scoring and energy and Durant's Bird-like mastery of the game. If OKC had kept that trio together, then now with Harden getting to his current level, they would be talking threepeat right about now, and Lebron would probably be complaining about his lack of a "supporting cast" in Miami.

YoungOne
09-29-2013, 09:15 PM
even he admits that they should have traded westbrook instead ;)

SouthSideRookie
09-30-2013, 12:10 AM
basketball debate has become such a joke when you have to resort to a TS to try and compare, just go to WADE 2006 FINALS vs HARDEN 12' FINALS, they are the same players since that time and prior

that's how you compare

HARDEN is no WADE, but he is a damn good player nothing more nothing less, WADE is 1st-2nd team caliber, HARDEN is 3rd team or honorable mention caliber

its different levels of franchise players and WADE is clearly on higher level but that doesn't take away from HARDEN at all

and to use the psd formula and pretty much all of mainstream media, WADE has 3 rings and HARDEN has zero, end of story go ask the laker nation

see tredigs post, you and ryan.

Think before you post.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 12:30 AM
basketball debate has become such a joke when you have to resort to a TS to try and compare, just go to WADE 2006 FINALS vs HARDEN 12' FINALS, they are the same players since that time and prior

that's how you compare

HARDEN is no WADE, but he is a damn good player nothing more nothing less, WADE is 1st-2nd team caliber, HARDEN is 3rd team or honorable mention caliber

its different levels of franchise players and WADE is clearly on higher level but that doesn't take away from HARDEN at all

and to use the psd formula and pretty much all of mainstream media, WADE has 3 rings and HARDEN has zero, end of story go ask the laker nation

This is the biggest joke of a post I have ever seen.

How to debate on PSD

1. Link a youtube video of highlights from 7 years ago.
2. Say your guy is better.
3. Ringz
4. Ask anyone, I'm right.

ryang
09-30-2013, 03:37 AM
Hardens name can not be mentioned with the likes of Kobe or Wade. Debate and pull stats out your ***. He just isn't there yet.

FlashBolt
09-30-2013, 04:03 AM
I think people only rate players on one end of the floor. If harden is the best Sg then you must be willing to say he is better than Wade both offensively and defensively. Wade is more efficient offensively and way better defensively...all the Harden is better argument makes no sense, anyone will look good on a bad team. Kobe or Wade will drop atleast 30 a game on that team even at their age.

Wade TS% 571
Harden TS% 600

Harden put up 3.2 more points per game on .3 more shots..

Wade more efficient offensively .... what a joke, Harden scored more on the same amount of shots stop being such a homer.

... Are you serious? Harden's ts is only high because he takes so many damn ft's... Other than that, he's an average defender, scorer, and passer. He does nothing Wade can't do except a better three point shooter. Wade's the better player, stats don't prove much in this scenario when you accept the fact that they are in completely different situations.

SouthSideRookie
09-30-2013, 10:20 AM
Check wades finals averages. Now try and find hardens. Ill wait.

LOL Ask Mavs fan what they think about the "rigged Finals." Wade camped in the line for basically the entire Mavs vs Heat Finals series. Had Lebron not activated God-mode the Heat lose vs the Spurs last year. Wade was MIA for a very good portion of that series. Hell he was not very good in the Indy series either, IIRC he went off in game 7 but besides that he wasn't very good and was a big reason why that series even went 7.


Hardens name can not be mentioned with the likes of Kobe or Wade. Debate and pull stats out your ***. He just isn't there yet.
Of course he isn't there yet. He's a third-year player. Besides, Kobe never accomplished anything of significance without a super big-man. Playoff fodder just like Harden last year.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 12:02 PM
... Are you serious? Harden's ts is only high because he takes so many damn ft's... Other than that, he's an average defender, scorer, and passer. He does nothing Wade can't do except a better three point shooter. Wade's the better player, stats don't prove much in this scenario when you accept the fact that they are in completely different situations.

:laugh: Guyz you can't count free throws that's cheating... Lmao let's just discount all of Wade's points in the third quarter then, just because I don't like the number three, or all of his points from layups and dunks because those are easy points.

Also average passer? :laugh: are you serious?? You just proved you know 0 about James Harden.

Steve Young
09-30-2013, 12:16 PM
Wade is a lot better, just only tries in the playoffs. so stupid people don't know he's the best guard. Stupid people only go on meaningless regular season stats.

Wade
Westbrook

then you got Harden and Paul.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 12:20 PM
Wade is a lot better, just only tries in the playoffs. so stupid people don't know he's the best guard. Stupid people only go on meaningless regular season stats.

Wade
Westbrook

then you got Harden and Paul.

Wow that is the least true thing anyone has ever said.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 01:13 PM
any reason why...

I have stats that say that Wade picks up his game in the playoffs. Harden stays the same if not gets worse.

so what you said is the least true thing anyone has ever heard.


One other thing...

Wade can dunk vertically from directly under the rim... Harden can't even do that. He needs 40 feet of running space to get up.

I could go on...

Like who has more shot blocks, who has better post game, who is more clutch, who has more playoff wins under his belt...

Except historically Wade's TS% plummets during the playoffs, like say last season he went from .570 to .480

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 01:14 PM
So stop only going by regular season ppg. Anyone can chuck their way to 28 a game. However some play to be efficient and win.

HARDEN IS MORE EFFICIENT ARE YOU ********. I never mentioned ppg, all I ever cited was TS% WHICH IS EFFICIENCY.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 01:15 PM
Who shoots 50% and who shoots 40%

:laugh: field goal percentage :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

ryang
09-30-2013, 02:13 PM
LOL Ask Mavs fan what they think about the "rigged Finals." Wade camped in the line for basically the entire Mavs vs Heat Finals series. Had Lebron not activated God-mode the Heat lose vs the Spurs last year. Wade was MIA for a very good portion of that series. Hell he was not very good in the Indy series either, IIRC he went off in game 7 but besides that he wasn't very good and was a big reason why that series even went 7.


Of course he isn't there yet. He's a third-year player. Besides, Kobe never accomplished anything of significance without a super big-man. Playoff fodder just like Harden last year.

Ask mavs fans? Lmao. No thanks. Ill just watch the DVD of wade bringing us a championship. Then ill turn my blue ray of harden losing to wade. Now you can start with your stats or whatever else u want. Has harden ever seen an MVP finals trophy? I do right now. Wades holding it.

ryang
09-30-2013, 02:16 PM
Are you saying last year harden was better? Stat wise ill agree but I still would keep wade so we can win our ring last year. You know wade was hurt last year right? We still won and wade did many things regardless of what stats say to help us win. When harden does anything remotely close to what wade has done lets revisit this convo.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 03:22 PM
Are you saying last year harden was better? Stat wise ill agree but I still would keep wade so we can win our ring last year. You know wade was hurt last year right? We still won and wade did many things regardless of what stats say to help us win. When harden does anything remotely close to what wade has done lets revisit this convo.

Harden dropped 40+ on OKC with a bummed ankle and severe strep ... So what. Harden at this point is better than Wade. Deal with it, keep bringing up the past it is just that. The past.

ryang
09-30-2013, 03:32 PM
Harden dropped 40+ on OKC with a bummed ankle and severe strep ... So what. Harden at this point is better than Wade. Deal with it, keep bringing up the past it is just that. The past.

By past you mean last year? Check wades numbers. He played just fine. Did a lot of things that don't show up on stat sheets as well. Keep bringing up the fact that garden is in the rise and wade is on the decline. Your right. But this season coming up you can have harden ill keep wade. Lets see who does better.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 05:01 PM
By past you mean last year? Check wades numbers. He played just fine. Did a lot of things that don't show up on stat sheets as well. Keep bringing up the fact that garden is in the rise and wade is on the decline. Your right. But this season coming up you can have harden ill keep wade. Lets see who does better.

Right that made total sense and you didn't contradict yourself at all. Just give up, you are being a huge homer saying Wade is even in Hardens league as a scorer or is a better passer.

canefandynasty
09-30-2013, 05:04 PM
Harden dropped 40+ on OKC with a bummed ankle and severe strep ... So what. Harden at this point is better than Wade. Deal with it, keep bringing up the past it is just that. The past.

The problem with Wade has been injuries upon injuries. A healthy Wade is comfortable better than Harden. Wade plays offense and defense, while Harden will give up as much was he scores.

ryang
09-30-2013, 05:40 PM
Right that made total sense and you didn't contradict yourself at all. Just give up, you are being a huge homer saying Wade is even in Hardens league as a scorer or is a better passer.

No I said wade is 10 times the PLAYER harden is. Harden couldn't score in the finals when it counted. Harden has had one year under his belt. His previous years were a 6th man role. Congrats he scored well off the bench. On to wade. He doesn't really have to pass anymore. Lebron has the ball 9 times outta 10. Before Lebron took over this Heat team Wade was in a class well above anything harden has reached. Harden is on the up side while wade is going downhill (is that a shocker givin wades age?? Think for a minute). If Lebron disappeared Tomm wades numbers would do nothing but increase as you saw with harden after he left okc to play a much bigger role. Wade has been the better player. Are you saying harden will be better this year? That's poss but it hasn't happened yet. Great players know there roles and right now wades role is to play D and attack the rim. Hardens role last year was to do pretty much everything for his team. An I'm the homer. Lmao.

FlashBolt
09-30-2013, 05:48 PM
:laugh: Guyz you can't count free throws that's cheating... Lmao let's just discount all of Wade's points in the third quarter then, just because I don't like the number three, or all of his points from layups and dunks because those are easy points.

Also average passer? :laugh: are you serious?? You just proved you know 0 about James Harden.

James is an average passer. You're so biased right now, it's always the fan of the player making up nonsense. His FT% is the only reason his TS% is high. Unless you count free throws as part of "scoring", then maybe you should recheck your criteria for scoring. Wade is the better player. Harden doesn't do anything better than Wade other than threes or at this point, going to the line. Wade is the better passer, rebounder, defender, and actually steps his game up when it matters most. Harden shot 39% in the playoffs, but wait.. his TS is .55.. That makes sense, we should ignore the fact that he missed so many shots because he made free throws. Also, Houston had a chance and should've beaten OKC. With Russ out, OKC literally had no one to rely on but Durant. Houston had Parsons, Asik, and Harden. Had Harden stepped up, Houston would've won. Parsons was the best player in the playoffs for them. Go take a look at Harden's playoffs stats. This guy doesn't perform very well when there is a game plan targeted against him. He'll play regular season just fine because it's regular season. Come playoff time, they close the paint and Harden just jacks up shots over and over. So yes, technically speaking, Harden is more efficient than Bryant/Wade because he shoots so many FT's. That doesn't mean jack. Harden has a higher TS% than most of the greatest scorers in the history.. Please don't tell me Harden is a better scorer than Jordan. He's not and his production compared to last year is solely based on him having more of a role.

LoveMeOrHateMe
09-30-2013, 05:48 PM
Kobe> wade and harden nough said... Give Kobe until December and he'll be back to old Kobe maybe less explosive but more efficient

26-6-7 are my expectations! 49%

ryang
09-30-2013, 05:56 PM
Kobe> wade and harden nough said... Give Kobe until December and he'll be back to old Kobe maybe less explosive but more efficient

26-6-7 are my expectations! 49%

Kobe is better then both. Wade is better then harden. Wade can catch Kobe but he hasn't yet.

FlashBolt
09-30-2013, 05:59 PM
Kobe> wade and harden nough said... Give Kobe until December and he'll be back to old Kobe maybe less explosive but more efficient

26-6-7 are my expectations! 49%

What makes you think he's going to average 49FG% when the most he's achieved is 46.9.. Let's be realistic here, stop dreaming.

alexander_37
09-30-2013, 06:45 PM
James is an average passer. You're so biased right now, it's always the fan of the player making up nonsense. His FT% is the only reason his TS% is high. Unless you count free throws as part of "scoring", then maybe you should recheck your criteria for scoring. Wade is the better player. Harden doesn't do anything better than Wade other than threes or at this point, going to the line. Wade is the better passer, rebounder, defender, and actually steps his game up when it matters most. Harden shot 39% in the playoffs, but wait.. his TS is .55.. That makes sense, we should ignore the fact that he missed so many shots because he made free throws. Also, Houston had a chance and should've beaten OKC. With Russ out, OKC literally had no one to rely on but Durant. Houston had Parsons, Asik, and Harden. Had Harden stepped up, Houston would've won. Parsons was the best player in the playoffs for them. Go take a look at Harden's playoffs stats. This guy doesn't perform very well when there is a game plan targeted against him. He'll play regular season just fine because it's regular season. Come playoff time, they close the paint and Harden just jacks up shots over and over. So yes, technically speaking, Harden is more efficient than Bryant/Wade because he shoots so many FT's. That doesn't mean jack. Harden has a higher TS% than most of the greatest scorers in the history.. Please don't tell me Harden is a better scorer than Jordan. He's not and his production compared to last year is solely based on him having more of a role.

Paragraphs would make that big block of nonsense a whole lot easier to read...

LoveMeOrHateMe
09-30-2013, 06:57 PM
What makes you think he's going to average 49FG% when the most he's achieved is 46.9.. Let's be realistic here, stop dreaming.

It happens, he's just gotta be a note selective shooter and he can't always be the one bailing the lakers out with the shot clock down

tredigs
09-30-2013, 07:05 PM
James is an average passer. You're so biased right now, it's always the fan of the player making up nonsense. His FT% is the only reason his TS% is high. Unless you count free throws as part of "scoring", then maybe you should recheck your criteria for scoring. Wade is the better player. Harden doesn't do anything better than Wade other than threes or at this point, going to the line. Wade is the better passer, rebounder, defender, and actually steps his game up when it matters most. Harden shot 39% in the playoffs, but wait.. his TS is .55.. That makes sense, we should ignore the fact that he missed so many shots because he made free throws. Also, Houston had a chance and should've beaten OKC. With Russ out, OKC literally had no one to rely on but Durant. Houston had Parsons, Asik, and Harden. Had Harden stepped up, Houston would've won. Parsons was the best player in the playoffs for them. Go take a look at Harden's playoffs stats. This guy doesn't perform very well when there is a game plan targeted against him. He'll play regular season just fine because it's regular season. Come playoff time, they close the paint and Harden just jacks up shots over and over. So yes, technically speaking, Harden is more efficient than Bryant/Wade because he shoots so many FT's. That doesn't mean jack. Harden has a higher TS% than most of the greatest scorers in the history.. Please don't tell me Harden is a better scorer than Jordan. He's not and his production compared to last year is solely based on him having more of a role.

"Unless you count FTs as part of scoring". HAH! First of all, do you seriously not consider the ability to draw contact and hit FT's at a high% as part of scoring ability? Drawing contact and hitting your shots is a skill... an offensive skill... to be more precise a scoring skill. You might prefer other methods, but the scoreboard doesn't.

Secondly, Harden's eFG% (no FT's taken into account) was exactly on par with Wade's career average (actually slightly ahead). He achieves that taking more 3's, Wade did it with more slashing. Same result in scoring efficiency (not including Harden's FT shooting advantage. Which isn't a volume advantage over Wade's peak - he's just a better shooter).

And lastly, no, he's not a better scorer than Jordan (huh?) - or peak Wade - and nowhere near their league as overall players and does still need to prove it in the post-season. But remember, he's 23 years old. Pull the talons back.

amos1er
09-30-2013, 07:06 PM
How is this thread even still going? Obviously Durant was smoking the good **** when he said this.

rjkgr
09-30-2013, 07:20 PM
i mean he a good 2 guard because he knows how to score!

Meaze_Gibson
09-30-2013, 11:07 PM
And lastly, no, he's not a better scorer than Jordan (huh?) - or peak Wade - and nowhere near their league as overall players and does still need to prove it in the post-season. But remember, he's 23 years old. Pull the talons back.

You can't pull the talons back when someone is claimed to be the best sg in the game. When you are considered the best something all of your faults are examined and critiqued to conclude if you are really the best.

James Harden is without a doubt a top sg in the game. But his major faults of not stepping up in big games, especially playoff games eliminate him from that top spot imo. Westbrook was like 20 when he went against Lakers in 2010 but never did he look uncomfortable on the court. Tmac never looked uncomfortable on the court while dropping numbers with his rag a tag Orlando squad. We have seen stars lose but still go out in a blaze of glory that is worth the talk. Not stepping up and being scared to shoot in momentous moments automatically disqualify him from this "best" talk.

Next year if he does what he is supposed to do in the season, playoffs, and during those clutch moments where he needs to make a play, then it can be a discussion. Until then, a player who shoots free throws and threes better than clutch, accomplished, 2 dimensional superstars cannot be considered the best.

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Harden

Supreme LA
09-30-2013, 11:56 PM
Kobe is better then both. Wade is better then harden. Wade can catch Kobe but he hasn't yet.

Wow, I never thought I'd ever see a unbiased Heat fan on PSD.

Nailed it.

sunsfan88
02-21-2014, 05:45 AM
Did any of yall know about this?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfL9pouCQAA-URo.jpg

No wonder Wade actually went HAM yesterday night.

Supreme LA
02-21-2014, 05:58 AM
Did any of yall know about this?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfL9pouCQAA-URo.jpg

No wonder Wade actually went HAM yesterday night.

I knew about this as I'm sure many other heat fans did. The photo was taken before the game that was played in Miami in which he came out to hit his first jumper and pretty much did nothing the rest of the game. As I recall, he didn't play much in the 4th qtr that game either because he sucked so bad.

The Thunder went on to victory pretty easily that game as Durant was unstoppable and pretty much owned Lebron all game. The highlights are on YouTube so you should check it out when you can. It was great stuff. Wade looked like a complete fool that day.

randyorton33
02-21-2014, 07:19 AM
Damn that's a bold statement, but i think he is right.

KnicksorBust
02-21-2014, 08:25 AM
For the rest of eternity, everytime Durant and Hardens' names are in the same sentence my first thought will be "they should still be teammates."

thenaj17
02-21-2014, 09:55 AM
This is the biggest joke of a post I have ever seen.

How to debate on PSD

1. Link a youtube video of highlights from 7 years ago.
2. Say your guy is better.
3. Ringz
4. Ask anyone, I'm right.

Don't rise to it...this is the same guy that insists both Kobe and Harden are backup guards and discredit anything either have done since they became starters

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 12:32 PM
Kobe
Wade
Harden

( when healthy obviously )

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 12:42 PM
Kobe
Wade
Harden

( when healthy obviously )

Do you honestly believe this or are you trolling? Wade and Kobe are way past their prime at this point, and Harden has clearly put up the best numbers of any SG the last two seasons. I don't even think that's debatable. Can Wade or Kobe play great basketball for stretches like Wade did last night? Sure. But it wouldn't be consistent. And Harden is pretty consistently dominating games as of late since he's come back healthy.

Harden is so far ahead of all other SGs at this point that there's not even a close second.

Dade County
02-21-2014, 12:44 PM
Kobe
Wade
Harden

( when healthy obviously )

lmao

Wade (for a very long time now)
Kobe (Kobe is past his prime (for a very long time now), and he is not efficient.
Harden


Do you honestly believe this or are you trolling? Wade and Kobe are way past their prime at this point, and Harden has clearly put up the best numbers of any SG the last two seasons. I don't even think that's debatable. Can Wade or Kobe play great basketball for stretches like Wade did last night? Sure. But it wouldn't be consistent. And Harden is pretty consistently dominating games as of late since he's come back healthy.

Harden is so far ahead of all other SGs at this point that there's not even a close second.

Yes, Harden plays a bigger role on the team that he i son... But if Wade and Harden are perfectly healthy, and you interchange them on the same team, playing against the same opponent.

Wade will clearly have the better game by far... numbers, eye test, whatever you go by, Wade will out shine Harden. (Once again, if both are healthy)

edit** not saying that Harden is injured or something.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 12:46 PM
Do you honestly believe this or are you trolling? Wade and Kobe are way past their prime at this point, and Harden has clearly put up the best numbers of any SG the last two seasons. I don't even think that's debatable. Can Wade or Kobe play great basketball for stretches like Wade did last night? Sure. But it wouldn't be consistent. And Harden is pretty consistently dominating games as of late since he's come back healthy.

Harden is so far ahead of all other SGs at this point that there's not even a close second.

Did you completely skip past the words "when healthy?" Last year a healthy Kobe was first team all NBA. When Wade is healthy he's still great.

And btw unlike Harden they play both sides of the floor. Harden wouldn't even make 3rd team all defense....

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 12:48 PM
lmao

Wade (for a very long time now)
Kobe (Kobe is past his prime (for a very long time now), and he is not efficient.
Harden

What?

Have you people even watched basketball this season? Wade is a shell of himself 90% of the time, Kobe has barely saw the floor at all and Harden continues to be one of the best, most efficient scorers in the league for the second consecutive year. Christ, I thought we were past all this crap now, but apparently we still have to deal with the blind Kobephiles and Heat fans who think Kobe and Wade are still as good today as they were 5 years ago. News flash: they're not.

Dade County
02-21-2014, 12:52 PM
Did you completely skip past the words "when healthy?" Last year a healthy Kobe was first team all NBA. When Wade is healthy he's still great.

And btw unlike Harden they play both sides of the floor. Harden wouldn't even make 3rd team all defense....

This 1st team NBA stuff... (When being judge by peers, it's still a popularity contest) I thought people would understand this by now.

Focus on stats (advance stats, or whatever statistical stats you like)... Compare them that way. I am not trying to compare them all time, just over the past couple of seasons.

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 12:56 PM
Did you completely skip past the words "when healthy?" Last year a healthy Kobe was first team all NBA. When Wade is healthy he's still great.

And btw unlike Harden they play both sides of the floor. Harden wouldn't even make 3rd team all defense....

Except "when healthy" is a pointless qualifier at this point in their careers. We haven't seen them play healthy basketball in a long time, and they're both at the point where you feel lucky if you can get 60 games out of them. It's impossible to know what a 100 percent Kobe Bryant would look like right now, because he's coming off significant injuries and he was atrocious the few games he actually saw the floor this season.

These guys simply aren't the same players they were five years ago. You can call it injuries. You can call it age. You can call it whatever the hell you want, but Harden has surpassed them, and there's no shame in that. Wilt was surpassed by Kareem, who was surpassed by Hakeem, who was surpassed by Shaq, who was surpassed by Dwight and Yao. It happens to all great players at some point.

Also, please don't bring up Harden's defense when comparing him to Kobe. It's laughable to suggest that Kobe is the same defensive player he was in his prime. The guy is average at best at this point in his career. And don't use "third team all-defense" as a barometer for someone's defensive capabilities. That's totally ignorant.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 12:56 PM
This 1st team NBA stuff... (When being judge by peers, it's still a popularity contest) I thought people would understand this by now.

Focus on stats (advance stats, or whatever statistical stats you like)... Compare them that way. I am not trying to compare them all time, just over the past couple of seasons.

Kobe's stats last year were one of the best and most efficient of his career. Slightly better than Hardens. The fact that a old man and Hardens stats are even remotely comparable should really tell you all you have to know....

Dade County
02-21-2014, 01:00 PM
What?

Have you people even watched basketball this season? Wade is a shell of himself 90% of the time, Kobe has barely saw the floor at all and Harden continues to be one of the best, most efficient scorers in the league for the second consecutive year. Christ, I thought we were past all this crap now, but apparently we still have to deal with the blind Kobephiles and Heat fans who think Kobe and Wade are still as good today as they were 5 years ago. News flash: they're not.

I agree that Wade and definitely Kobe are no where near what they were.

What I am trying to say is that, I still believe that Wade is the better player, if all things are even (healthy Wade). This is not to say that a Gm would pick Wade over Harden,if they had to sign one; but I do believe that if a playoff series was on the line (or 1 game), and a coach had to pick out of Wade (wade would have to be healthy)or harden, I think most Gm's will pick Wade in that spot.

Because Wade has proven it, and he is better player when healthy (not for the long run). Maybe when and if Harden accomplishes anything that Wade has done to prove that he can, push his team through the playoffs...etc

Don't get me wrong, Harden is a good player. i just don't see him, having that super star moment when he wins it all, and it's because of his talents that completely smash the other teams hopes.

Wade and kobe have had those moments, plenty of times. Once again, not saying that anyone would pick them over Harden now for the long run.

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 01:01 PM
Kobe's stats last year were one of the best and most efficient of his career. Slightly better than Hardens. The fact that a old man and Hardens stats are even remotely comparable should really tell you all you have to know....

How do you figure his numbers were better than Harden's? What barometers are you using? Harden had a much higher TS%, WS, WS/48 and RAPM with an identical PER. Pretty much any advanced stat you can use says Harden had a better season last year than Kobe.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 01:02 PM
Except "when healthy" is a pointless qualifier at this point in their careers. We haven't seen them play healthy basketball in a long time, and they're both at the point where you feel lucky if you can get 60 games out of them. It's impossible to know what a 100 percent Kobe Bryant would look like right now, because he's coming off significant injuries and he was atrocious the few games he actually saw the floor this season.

These guys simply aren't the same players they were five years ago. You can call it injuries. You can call it age. You can call it whatever the hell you want, but Harden has surpassed them, and there's no shame in that. Wilt was surpassed by Kareem, who was surpassed by Hakeem, who was surpassed by Shaq, who was surpassed by Dwight and Yao. It happens to all great players at some point.

Also, please don't bring up Harden's defense when comparing him to Kobe. It's laughable to suggest that Kobe is the same defensive player he was in his prime. The guy is average at best at this point in his career. And don't use "third team all-defense" as a barometer for someone's defensive capabilities. That's totally ignorant.


I'll respectfully leave you be my man. I've noticed you have absolutely no objectivity when it comes to the Rox. You constantly bash other players and teams ( lakers, GS, Clippers etc ) constantly. If someone doesn't agree with you that Asik is one of the best centers, or Lin is a great PG, or that Parsons is a superstar you just dismiss them as ignorant.

Whenever you post you might as well say "all the Rockets players are the best and everyone else is overrated."

That's basically how it comes across.

Dade County
02-21-2014, 01:02 PM
Except "when healthy" is a pointless qualifier at this point in their careers. We haven't seen them play healthy basketball in a long time, and they're both at the point where you feel lucky if you can get 60 games out of them. It's impossible to know what a 100 percent Kobe Bryant would look like right now, because he's coming off significant injuries and he was atrocious the few games he actually saw the floor this season.


Agreed... Any Gm would pick Harden over the both of them right now.

mudvayne387
02-21-2014, 01:03 PM
No he's not. Dragic is.

lol

Dade County
02-21-2014, 01:05 PM
How do you figure his numbers were better than Harden's? What barometers are you using? Harden had a much higher TS%, WS, WS/48 and RAPM with an identical PER. Pretty much any advanced stat you can use says Harden had a better season last year than Kobe.

I think we are talking about, like a 3yr span. because Wade and Kobe have been injured a LOT (and Wade taking a step back, because of Le-con).

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 01:06 PM
I agree that Wade and definitely Kobe are no where near what they were.

What I am trying to say is that, I still believe that Wade is the better player, if all things are even (healthy Wade). This is not to say that a Gm would pick Wade over Harden,if they had to sign one; but I do believe that if a playoff series was on the line (or 1 game), and a coach had to pick out of Wade (wade would have to be healthy)or harden, I think most Gm's will pick Wade in that spot.

Because Wade has proven it, and he is better player when healthy (not for the long run). Maybe when and if Harden accomplishes anything that Wade has done to prove that he can, push his team through the playoffs...etc

Don't get me wrong, Harden is a good player. i just don't see him, having that super star moment when he wins it all, and it's because of his talents that completely smash the other teams hopes.

Wade and kobe have had those moments, plenty of times. Once again, not saying that anyone would pick them over Harden now for the long run.

But you're totally, completely missing the point. You're using Wade and Kobe's accomplishments in the past to justify their current abilities. And that's not at all what "Who's the best player?" discussions are about. It's which guy is the better basketball player right now. It's not which guy has the most rings or has accomplished the most in his career or proven the most in big postseason moments. It's whoever the best basketball player is skills-wise and production-wise at that given moment.

And, right now, I don't care what the circumstances are. It could be the final minute of Game 7 of the NBA Finals or the first minute of a home game against Milwaukee, I'd rather have Harden. He's the best scorer of the three. Period.

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 01:11 PM
I'll respectfully leave you be my man. I've noticed you have absolutely no objectivity when it comes to the Rox. You constantly bash other players and teams ( lakers, GS, Clippers etc ) constantly. If someone doesn't agree with you that Asik is one of the best centers, or Lin is a great PG, or that Parsons is a superstar you just dismiss them as ignorant.

Whenever you post you might as well say "all the Rockets players are the best and everyone else is overrated."

That's basically how it comes across.

Lol..... You clearly don't read my posts very well. I defend my team's players when I feel the need to. And it's not bias at all right now to claim that Harden is the best SG in the league. If you asked every analyst or player or fan in the entire world who the best SG is, the majority would say James Harden. It's not bias. It's an objective look at his play, his production and his abilities.

Also, I would never argue that Asik is one of the best centers, that Lin is a great PG or that Parsons is a superstar. Asik's a top 10 defensive and rebounding center, Lin is a mediocre point guard who is best suited to a 6th man role and Parsons is one of the best No. 3 guys in the league, but he would be a pretty terrible No. 1 for any playoff team.

You're just using a single argument and vague generalizations of my other posts to suggest that I'm not being objective, when in reality, I'm probably one of the most objective Rockets fans on this site.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 01:21 PM
Lol..... You clearly don't read my posts very well. I defend my team's players when I feel the need to. And it's not bias at all right now to claim that Harden is the best SG in the league. If you asked every analyst or player or fan in the entire world who the best SG is, the majority would say James Harden. It's not bias. It's an objective look at his play, his production and his abilities.

Also, I would never argue that Asik is one of the best centers, that Lin is a great PG or that Parsons is a superstar. Asik's a top 10 defensive and rebounding center, Lin is a mediocre point guard who is best suited to a 6th man role and Parsons is one of the best No. 3 guys in the league, but he would be a pretty terrible No. 1 for any playoff team.

You're just using a single argument and vague generalizations of my other posts to suggest that I'm not being objective, when in reality, I'm probably one of the most objective Rockets fans on this site.


So if I were to tell you I like the Clippers and Warriors rosters better than Houston's and I think they'd beat the Rox in the first round you would say?.....

Jamiecballer
02-21-2014, 01:25 PM
Kobe's stats last year were one of the best and most efficient of his career. Slightly better than Hardens. The fact that a old man and Hardens stats are even remotely comparable should really tell you all you have to know....

kobe 1.13
harden 1.19
durant 1.28
carmelo 1.11
lebron 1.28

pretty close but you can see that Kobe wasn't quite as efficient as Harden and well behind Lebron and Kevin Durant. this is their true output per offensive attempt.

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 01:37 PM
So if I were to tell you I like the Clippers and Warriors rosters better than Houston's and I think they'd beat the Rox in the first round you would say?.....

I'd say that I think both series would be extremely close and go to 6 or 7 games. I think the Clippers would beat Houston, but Houston would beat Golden State. Golden State's offense just has not been super reliable lately, and they're far too reliant on Curry chucking up 25 footers to win games. But the Clippers have looked amazing in the wake of Griffin's emergence this season, and Houston just will not be able to stop him in a 7-game series.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 01:43 PM
I'd say that I think both series would be extremely close and go to 6 or 7 games. I think the Clippers would beat Houston, but Houston would beat Golden State. Golden State's offense just has not been super reliable lately, and they're far too reliant on Curry chucking up 25 footers to win games. But the Clippers have looked amazing in the wake of Griffin's emergence this season, and Houston just will not be able to stop him in a 7-game series.


Fair enough.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 01:47 PM
Back to topic I think KD was not only sticking up for his boy but taking a not so subtle lil jab at D Wade. Which is a pretty dangerous thing to do seeing as how the Heat have the luxury of letting Wade just relax this season and so he can be his old self come playoff time.

Should they meet in the finals I could see Lebron setting the table for Wade to put on a show.

Lakers + Giants
02-21-2014, 02:10 PM
when wade is healthy he is better no question.

Healthy wade doesn't exist anymore tho, so what's the point.

Jamiecballer
02-21-2014, 02:11 PM
Back to topic I think KD was not only sticking up for his boy but taking a not so subtle lil jab at D Wade. Which is a pretty dangerous thing to do seeing as how the Heat have the luxury of letting Wade just relax this season and so he can be his old self come playoff time.

Should they meet in the finals I could see Lebron setting the table for Wade to put on a show.
well the Heat had that luxury last season as well and Wade definitely did not rise to the occasion.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 02:21 PM
well the Heat had that luxury last season as well and Wade definitely did not rise to the occasion.

He did in the Finals I watched but anyways he's getting much more precautionary rest this year than last.

Dade County
02-21-2014, 02:29 PM
But you're totally, completely missing the point. You're using Wade and Kobe's accomplishments in the past to justify their current abilities. And that's not at all what "Who's the best player?" discussions are about.

Nop, I also sated right now, if at any point in time, Wade is healthy and his ready to go.. he will out perform Harden more times then not.

Wade is better then Harden, when healthy.



It's which guy is the better basketball player right now.

Wade was semi healthy last night against OKC, so I consider him better, right now... Maybe in two games, Wade will play like ****, and Harden will be better for that night.

is this the kind of game you want to play?



It's not which guy has the most rings or has accomplished the most in his career or proven the most in big postseason moments. It's whoever the best basketball player is skills-wise and production-wise at that given moment.

Production wise (right now), Harden has Wade & Kobe beat... But is that really saying something, because both players are not healthy.



And, right now, I don't care what the circumstances are. It could be the final minute of Game 7 of the NBA Finals or the first minute of a home game against Milwaukee, I'd rather have Harden.

I rather have a healthy Wade... And Lakers fans, would rather have a healthy Kobe.


He's the best scorer of the three. Period.

His the best scorer of the 3 RIGHT now. Do to injuries and Wade taking a step back for Lbj. Ok.

Even if Harden ends up, with a better scoring career then Wade; that wouldn't make Harden better then Wade, when judging who was the better player all time.

But, yes I know you are talking about right now.


Healthy wade doesn't exist anymore tho, so what's the point.

Lol, good one.

Jamiecballer
02-21-2014, 02:34 PM
He did in the Finals I watched but anyways he's getting much more precautionary rest this year than last.

19.6 points
4.0 rebounds
4.6 assists
1.9 steals
1.3 blocks

47%

yeah i suppose that's not terrible but it's not up to Wade standards IMO.

Tony_Starks
02-21-2014, 03:01 PM
19.6 points
4.0 rebounds
4.6 assists
1.9 steals
1.3 blocks

47%

yeah i suppose that's not terrible but it's not up to Wade standards IMO.

This is where stats don't always tell the whole story. Game 4 they were down 2-1, had just suffered a blowout loss, and Lebron was looking scared to shoot. People were saying Wade was done and even should be benched. Had they lost it wouldve been 3-1 and its a wrap. He comes out and carries the team from the jump, and basically dominates the game for 32 and the win.

Lebron ended up with 33 but most of it was in garbage time with the game out of reach. So basically Wade always comes through when you need him.

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 03:02 PM
Nop, I also sated right now, if at any point in time, Wade is healthy and his ready to go.. he will out perform Harden more times then not. Wade is better then Harden, when healthy.
Except that when he's been healthy enough to play this season, he hasn't outperformed Harden. He hasn't even come close. Hell, Harden has dealt with a plethora of injury issues for the better part of this season, and his numbers still tower over Wade's.


Wade was semi healthy last night against OKC, so I consider him better, right now... Maybe in two games, Wade will play like ****, and Harden will be better for that night.
Oh really? Well maybe you went to bed last night before the Rockets/Warriors game, but Harden put up 39 points, 34 of which came in the second half and overtime. The man single-handedly kept Houston in that game with big shot after big shot in the fourth quarter. He even hit two clutch free throws in overtime with a hyperextended elblow on his shooting arm. Wade's stat line was impressive, and he had a great game, but Harden was better and played a much bigger role.


Production wise (right now), Harden has Wade & Kobe beat... But is that really saying something, because both players are not healthy. I rather have a healthy Wade... And Lakers fans, would rather have a healthy Kobe.
Okay.... Then when are we supposed to see this "healthy Wade" and "healthy Kobe"? Because I don't think we've seen a "healthy Dwyane Wade" in like 2 years. The guy is always hurt and always missing games, and people keep making excuses for him and saying he's better "when healthy." Let's just drop the qualifier and every accept the fact that this is who he is at this point in his career.

He's never going to be a consistent 25/5/5 guy ever again. He'll never be a top 5 player in the league or put up the ridiculous advanced numbers he did in his prime. He'll still be a tremendous basketball player, but he's a shadow of himself, and there's no shame in saying that after everything he has accomplished. This was about the same time in Bird's career where injuries caused him to really fall off as a player. It happens to everyone at some point.


His the best scorer of the 3 RIGHT now. Do to injuries and Wade taking a step back for Lbj. Ok.

Even if Harden ends up, with a better scoring career then Wade; that wouldn't make Harden better then Wade, when judging who was the better player all time.

But, yes I know you are talking about right now.

Except I'm not just talking about "right now." I'm saying that James Harden is and will be the better scorer and player for the remainder of all three players' careers barring some freak injury to Harden or some huge unforeseen comeback by Wade or Kobe. Now, will Harden have a better career or have been a better player at his peak than those guys? I seriously doubt it. Those guys at their peaks and primes are among the 4-5 best SGs in the history of the NBA. Harden would have to improve in a lot of areas, mainly defense and turnovers. And he'd have to add a ring to his resume to even belong in the discussion.

Dade County
02-21-2014, 03:53 PM
Except that when he's been healthy enough to play this season, he hasn't outperformed Harden. He hasn't even come close. Hell, Harden has dealt with a plethora of injury issues for the better part of this season, and his numbers still tower over Wade's.


Oh really? Well maybe you went to bed last night before the Rockets/Warriors game, but Harden put up 39 points, 34 of which came in the second half and overtime. The man single-handedly kept Houston in that game with big shot after big shot in the fourth quarter. He even hit two clutch free throws in overtime with a hyperextended elblow on his shooting arm. Wade's stat line was impressive, and he had a great game, but Harden was better and played a much bigger role.


Okay.... Then when are we supposed to see this "healthy Wade" and "healthy Kobe"? Because I don't think we've seen a "healthy Dwyane Wade" in like 2 years. The guy is always hurt and always missing games, and people keep making excuses for him and saying he's better "when healthy." Let's just drop the qualifier and every accept the fact that this is who he is at this point in his career.

He's never going to be a consistent 25/5/5 guy ever again. He'll never be a top 5 player in the league or put up the ridiculous advanced numbers he did in his prime. He'll still be a tremendous basketball player, but he's a shadow of himself, and there's no shame in saying that after everything he has accomplished. This was about the same time in Bird's career where injuries caused him to really fall off as a player. It happens to everyone at some point.


Except I'm not just talking about "right now." I'm saying that James Harden is and will be the better scorer and player for the remainder of all three players' careers barring some freak injury to Harden or some huge unforeseen comeback by Wade or Kobe. Now, will Harden have a better career or have been a better player at his peak than those guys? I seriously doubt it. Those guys at their peaks and primes are among the 4-5 best SGs in the history of the NBA. Harden would have to improve in a lot of areas, mainly defense and turnovers. And he'd have to add a ring to his resume to even belong in the discussion.


(Sorry I didn't break down your post like I wanted too, I am doing stuff)


I did go to bed last night, so no i didn't catch Harden working the warriors...lmao

But the HEAT offense runs through le-com (sadly) so Wade would have to be on fire, to get up that many shots, and dominate the ball like that.

Wade had a stretch last year, on the winning streak, when he was super efficient, I say that was the closes we seen Wade healthy for over 20 games straight.

And he doesn't have to average those numbers "25/5/5" on a nightly basses. The HEAT offense doesn't call for it. And Wade has never been that kind of player, winning is most important to him; not the numbers (even though he still put up great numbers when he was younger).

He is a shadow of himself, but I think some of that is because he took a step back because of Lbj, and injuries.

I can see harden being the better player moving forward in production and talent, because Wade & kobe are much older now and unhealthy, when you look at it big picture wise.

But I did stat that all Gm's would pick harden over Wade & Kobe right now, moving forward.

MTar786
02-21-2014, 04:55 PM
wade when healthy is way better than harden. problem is wade is healthy 1 out of 6 games lol. also, prime harden could never even hold prime wades jock strap. by next season harden will be the better player hands down.. but that's got nothing to do with harden as it has to do with wades body breaking down

Hawkeye15
02-21-2014, 04:56 PM
its honestly a sad year for SG's

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 04:58 PM
wade when healthy is way better than harden. problem is wade is healthy 1 out of 6 games lol. also, prime harden could never even hold prime wades jock strap. by next season harden will be the better player hands down.. but that's got nothing to do with harden as it has to do with wades body breaking down
Harden's a better player NOW hands down. I don't know how you can argue otherwise.

Hawkeye15
02-21-2014, 05:03 PM
Harden's a better player NOW hands down. I don't know how you can argue otherwise.

yeah, Wade had defense over him last year, but this year, Wade, hell everyone on Miami it seems like, is taking it easy on defense. Factor in Wade is so undependable, even if its for minutes management for the real games, and Harden has moved into the top SG spot with no competition, unless we are sticking PG there somehow (he may have, if not for Lance coming out of nowhere this year).

Hawkeye15
02-21-2014, 05:06 PM
This is probably true for most fans (remember Chicago fans blasting CP3 on main forums, but admitting he was better in their own forum than Rose), but Heat fans need to be careful not to contradict themselves. In one thread, you say LeBron has a gimp Wade this year (which I sorta agree with), and in another thread, you argue he is the best SG playing.

Careful now...

mightybosstone
02-21-2014, 05:07 PM
its honestly a sad year for SG's

It is, but it's really a position in transition right now. So many guys in the league that are considered point guards probably would have been shooting guards 10-20 years ago. Look at guys like Westbrook, Rose and Curry, who are generally score-first guys. If this were the 90s, they could very well have been considered 2 guards at 6'3". But that's just the way the game has evolved.

On the flip side, a lot of the longer, more athletic wings are playing the 3 for defensive purposes than the 2 because of the strength of that position. Also, so many guys can shoot a 3-pointer right now, and there's so much emphasis on floor spacing that guys who would normally be SGs are playing SF to have more shooters on the floor.

I don't think the poor depth at SG is a knock on the position. I think it has a lot more to do with the blending of the PG, SG and SF positions over the last 20 years and the fact that PG and SF are more valuable positions on the floor.

Hawkeye15
02-21-2014, 05:10 PM
It is, but it's really a position in transition right now. So many guys in the league that are considered point guards probably would have been shooting guards 10-20 years ago. Look at guys like Westbrook, Rose and Curry, who are generally score-first guys. If this were the 90s, they could very well have been considered 2 guards at 6'3". But that's just the way the game has evolved.

On the flip side, a lot of the longer, more athletic wings are playing the 3 for defensive purposes than the 2 because of the strength of that position. Also, so many guys can shoot a 3-pointer right now, and there's so much emphasis on floor spacing that guys who would normally be SGs are playing SF to have more shooters on the floor.

I don't think the poor depth at SG is a knock on the position. I think it has a lot more to do with the blending of the PG, SG and SF positions over the last 20 years and the fact that PG and SF are more valuable positions on the floor.

agree on every point. And the league is in transition. With Harden, Clay, and then Wiggins coming in, hopefully we have a nice trio over the next number of years (depending on where Wiggins plays).

And yep, Rose, Westbrook, and Curry were SG's 20 years ago. For sure dude.

My post also had something to do with the fact that Kobe is out, and Wade plays 1/3 games and looks sluggish at times.

Jamiecballer
02-21-2014, 05:32 PM
This is where stats don't always tell the whole story. Game 4 they were down 2-1, had just suffered a blowout loss, and Lebron was looking scared to shoot. People were saying Wade was done and even should be benched. Had they lost it wouldve been 3-1 and its a wrap. He comes out and carries the team from the jump, and basically dominates the game for 32 and the win.

Lebron ended up with 33 but most of it was in garbage time with the game out of reach. So basically Wade always comes through when you need him.

that's a wonderful narrative. don't you think maybe if he'd played anything close to that level in the first 3 games it might have been helpful to the Heat?

Hawkeye15
02-21-2014, 05:58 PM
that's a wonderful narrative. don't you think maybe if he'd played anything close to that level in the first 3 games it might have been helpful to the Heat?

you are arguing with the people who think Ray Allen was the MVP of the Heat for hitting a clutch shot, while ignoring LeBron going nova even gave them the chance...

3RDASYSTEM
02-21-2014, 05:58 PM
see tredigs post, you and ryan.

Think before you post.

Will do URKEL

3RDASYSTEM
02-21-2014, 06:05 PM
This is the biggest joke of a post I have ever seen.

How to debate on PSD

1. Link a youtube video of highlights from 7 years ago.
2. Say your guy is better.
3. Ringz
4. Ask anyone, I'm right.

1. I don't use youtube videos for my end all, I cant help it if a incredible player has a legendary youtube clip, I watch players from ncaa to professional and rank'em off that so I don't understand your 7yr logic

2. me saying a guy is better is my opinion but it will be right there, like I feel GRIFFEY/BONDS are 2 of the best MLB players I have ever saw, just like SHAQ/BRON/IVERSON are dominant in they era/all time ranking, just like BARRY-DEION SANDERS/R WHITE/R MOSS are some of the best all time, so if you can name me a player better than those guys its most likely one of the best player(s) to ever do it,period

3. you must never read my post to bring up the RINGZ thing, next

4. I was told that IVERSON was the hardest to guard in the league from G position once upon a time,by a NBA player.... fact

so to sum it up I think you just 1 upped me for dumbest/weakest/biggest joke reply all time on here since none of your 4 fit my criteria, just yours

archdevil84
02-21-2014, 06:30 PM
damn i wish wade would stil be in his prime. that would be awesome

Dade County
02-21-2014, 06:35 PM
damn i wish wade would stil be in his prime. that would be awesome

Naw, that wouldn't be fair.

I just wish, that he could stay healthy, and the league takes the leash off of him and the HEAT. I actually think Wade can perform better then what we are seeing now; instead of only showing up sometimes for big games.

Like the Pacers game in Miami... It seem so stage, Wade out of know where dominating them (people in the media, stating that Wade is going to have a big game), then what do you know, playing like a side kick again the next couple of games.

Wade n Fade
02-21-2014, 06:41 PM
Comments from other players just fuel the Heat. I think the team has learned to embrace criticism, ignorant fans, haters, inconsistent media members, etc. If I was an NBA player, I would toy around or play mind games like Phil Jackson.

smith&wesson
02-21-2014, 06:54 PM
how do you even compare a pg to a sg ? I agree that harden is currently the best sg. But if you say all gaurds and include pg's then there is def some debate.

pretty broad statement by durant.

sunsfan88
02-21-2014, 07:14 PM
The SGs in this league are the worst its ever been in NBA history.

When Dragic was playing SG alongside Bledsoe, you can make a case for Dragic being the best SG in the league. Hell, he has the best PER among all SGs.

sunsfan88
02-21-2014, 07:18 PM
And Harden is pretty consistently dominating games as of late since he's come back healthy.


Way to jinx it. Harden hyper-extended his elbow.

nastynice
02-21-2014, 08:19 PM
Lol..... You clearly don't read my posts very well. I defend my team's players when I feel the need to. And it's not bias at all right now to claim that Harden is the best SG in the league. If you asked every analyst or player or fan in the entire world who the best SG is, the majority would say James Harden. It's not bias. It's an objective look at his play, his production and his abilities.

mightybosstone is a giant homer, but I agree, right now Harden's the best SG in the league. The thing about Wade is we don't know where he is exactly as a player right now, he's obviously purposely taken a diminished role and back seat to lebron in order for the heat to succeed, but all we can go off of is what we see on the court, and I think Harden is clearly superior to Wade and Kobe right now. He's impressed me every time I've watched him this year, may not have the athletic ability as the other two but his offensive game is solid and he can score a variety of ways. And after watching him guard David Lee last night, I'm assuming he must be a pretty damn good defensive player. He got big when he had to.

nastynice
02-21-2014, 08:21 PM
damn i wish wade would stil be in his prime. that would be awesome

he probably is, he's just playing a new role now. Its obviously been quite effective for team success. I wouldn't be surprised if he and lebron split that he would be pretty close to what we saw from him a few years ago.

nastynice
02-21-2014, 08:25 PM
Oh really? Well maybe you went to bed last night before the Rockets/Warriors game, but Harden put up 39 points, 34 of which came in the second half and overtime. The man single-handedly kept Houston in that game with big shot after big shot in the fourth quarter. He even hit two clutch free throws in overtime with a hyperextended elblow on his shooting arm. Wade's stat line was impressive, and he had a great game, but Harden was better and played a much bigger role.

thought he shoots left, hyperextended right...

naps
02-21-2014, 09:42 PM
LOL no way. Harden is a terrific player but he's not the best guard in the league.

Bruno
02-21-2014, 10:12 PM
It is, but it's really a position in transition right now. So many guys in the league that are considered point guards probably would have been shooting guards 10-20 years ago. Look at guys like Westbrook, Rose and Curry, who are generally score-first guys. If this were the 90s, they could very well have been considered 2 guards at 6'3". But that's just the way the game has evolved.

On the flip side, a lot of the longer, more athletic wings are playing the 3 for defensive purposes than the 2 because of the strength of that position. Also, so many guys can shoot a 3-pointer right now, and there's so much emphasis on floor spacing that guys who would normally be SGs are playing SF to have more shooters on the floor.

I don't think the poor depth at SG is a knock on the position. I think it has a lot more to do with the blending of the PG, SG and SF positions over the last 20 years and the fact that PG and SF are more valuable positions on the floor.

i like an NBA where true Centers and SGs dominate the league. :)

Hawkeye15
02-22-2014, 12:47 AM
i like an NBA where true Centers and SGs dominate the league. :)

buy a Delorean and go back to 1995 dude. That ship has sailed...

slashsnake
02-22-2014, 02:12 AM
Well he is in the discussion. Paul has been out quite a bit, Wade too. Kobe's out.

Harden is top 5 this year among guards in Win shares, PER, pts/game, rebounds per game, minutes played, free throws attempted, and offensive rating.

Personally I like Curry more, but this year, you could make a solid case for Harden as the best current guard in the league.

b@llhog24
02-22-2014, 02:20 AM
buy a Delorean and go back to 1995 dude. That ship has sailed...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1601274_10152184406122594_2042410634_n.jpg

Monta is beast
02-22-2014, 02:57 AM
Hell na i understand thats his boy..but hell na

Paul/Curry

Harden

Monta is beast
02-22-2014, 03:01 AM
Currys d is hella underrated. Theres always like a 3-4 year lag for other teams fans to know someones game. Currys on ball and off ball d is good. Better playmaker not to mention the most clutch player in the game.

Leads the nba in go ahead 4th quarter shots..2 game winbers and last nights game tying layup..hands down currys better..and i aint a homer ask anyone in the dubs forum

Monta is beast
02-22-2014, 03:04 AM
I have league pass to so i know wassup with hardens game for the most part

Matter.
02-22-2014, 03:07 AM
buy a Delorean and go back to 1995 dude. That ship has sailed...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1601274_10152184406122594_2042410634_n.jpg

Your name brings up the past also 8-)

slashsnake
02-22-2014, 03:40 AM
Hell na i understand thats his boy..but hell na

Paul/Curry

Harden


I guess it depends on what you consider "right now" That might pull Paul out for not playing in 1/3 of the games this year.

And I do like Curry's D a lot as well. I think earlier in his career I kind of lumped him in with Monta Ellis who was an absolute sieve on defense with the Warriors and his ankles at times slowed him down too. But that's awesome he is finally healthy and showing off what he can do.

Rndy
02-22-2014, 03:52 AM
I agree with him if he meant SG Harden is the man I've always rooted for OKC outside of my Bulls because Durant is a guy who will eventually carry this league and he's a guy you root for because of the person he comes off as. As a fan I wish they kept Harden over Westy. What West has done is nothing short of amazing not being a legit long term point guard and making the switch in the best league in the world just shows how talented the guy is. With that said In my opinion they would have been better off keeping Harden and trading Westy while getting a cheaper point guard who is more of a facilitator that has the threat of shooting but is more of a passer.

If OKC continues to draft well and when Perks deal is up giving them money to add defense and an inside scoring presence(Adams could very well be that guy) they can still possibly be a Dynasty in the future but I still believe they would have been better off with Harden.

Monta is beast
02-22-2014, 04:04 AM
When Paul is right, he's still the best pg. I think curry overtakes him in 2 years..i may be wrong but in his prime 28-32 i see curry averaging 30-5-11 on 50-40-90

Deem_NY
02-22-2014, 04:13 AM
If he doesn't win in Okc before he becomes a FA I can see him joining harden in Houston

cmellofan15
02-22-2014, 10:33 AM
Just a general statement.

I believe that if a player is having constant issues with injuries then you have to take that into evaluating his game. You can't just tell me Dwyane Wade is still great because he has the ability to play like the best SOME nights. I prefer consistency to flashes of greatness because even Gerald Green has those flashes.

mightybosstone
02-22-2014, 11:31 AM
When Paul is right, he's still the best pg. I think curry overtakes him in 2 years..i may be wrong but in his prime 28-32 i see curry averaging 30-5-11 on 50-40-90

That's ****ing insane. Curry is playing 38 minutes a night with a USG% over 28 and he's not remotely close to those numbers. If he can't average 50/40/90 and 25/10 with that much playing time and the ball in his hands that often, there isn't a chance in hell he ever comes close to those numbers. To get remotely close, he'd have to at least double his FTA and take over 20 shots per game. And if he was taking up that many possessions, no chance he adds 3 assists a game to his nightly production.

Get your head out of the clouds and come back down to reality. It's been over 40 years since a player posted 30 points and 10 assists per game, and only two guys have ever done it. Oscar did it five times in six years 50 years ago playing against smaller, unathletic guards who he regularly dominated. And Tiny Archibald did it once in the early 70s in a freak season he never came remotely close to replicating.