PDA

View Full Version : Goran Dragic is one of the most underrated player in the NBA



sunsfan88
08-13-2013, 06:50 PM
Goran Dragic‘s nickname is “The Dragon,” but over the past few months, you wouldn’t know it based on how many times he’s been referred to as “the lone bright spot of the Suns’ season.” Dragic hasn’t really garnered any national attention as a superstar, but he’s easily identifiable as a key component in Phoenix’s ongoing rebuilding process and the flashes of brilliance he showed throughout the year prevented many a Suns fan from crossing over from the realm of the semi-depressed into reading-books-that-may-or-may-not-be-titled-”Don’t jump!” territory. With one of the best-kept secrets in the NBA somewhat rotting away down in the Valley of the Sun, Dragic’s is certainly one of those underrated players that anyone familiar with Suns basketball can appreciate. But does that make him the best value in the NBA?

To put it simply, not really. Phoenix signed Dragic to a four-year, $30 million deal last summer and his salary for this season ($7.5 million) made him the highest-paid player on the Suns. But that’s not to say he doesn’t have value. The Dragon led the Suns in scoring, assists and steals this year, putting up career bests of 14.7 points, 7.4 assists, 3.1 rebounds and 1.6 steals per game. He didn’t exactly replace the beloved hero before him, but anyone who doubts what Dragic can do should keep in mind that even future Hall of Famer Steve Nash didn’t show significant improvement until his fifth year in the league, averaging 15.6 points, 7.3 assists, 3.2 rebounds and one steal per game. If those numbers look remarkably similar, it’s because they are. And guess how many years Dragic has been in the league? Five.

Possibly the best part of watching Dragic play is seeing him do something cool and knowing that this guy has plenty of potential as he continues to grow accustomed to a starting role. He still has some learning to do if he ever wants to be a pick-and-roll master like Nash, but he’s definitely picked up a thing or two from his old mentor in screen situations. Watch here as he doesn’t panic when the defense collapses, perfectly manipulating the defense with temporary indecision until Marcin Gortat is freed up just enough for him to throw him a nice little alley-oop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHpsotomPOM&feature=player_embedded

A lot of people believe that basketball should adopt the second-assist rule, such as they have in hockey, because sometimes the ball movement is just too good for the credit of the assist to go to just one person. Goran Dragic would probably average somewhere around 15 assists per game if the hockey assist ever became a basketball reality, because it’s his smart ball rotation that often leads to wide-open looks for his teammates on the perimeter. I can’t count how many times Dragic has skipped the ball across the court to an open perimeter player for him to zip it into the corner when the defense rotates for a wide open 3. But since hockey assists aren’t that easy to find evidence of on the Internet at this time, take a look at the night the Suns dropped 17 3s on the Charlotte Bobcats and how many of them came out of Goran Dragic (made or assisted on).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I-oqNyHtac&feature=player_embedded

Dragic’s defense is a little suspect at times because he is usually overpowered by bigger or quicker guards. But that’s not to say he isn’t clever on the defensive end and he certainly gets his fair share of weak-side steals. And in his defense, despite being so undersized, Dragic showed a lot of improvement on the defensive end, which makes him about one of three players in the Suns organization who can say the same. But the most marketable and entertaining part of the Dragon’s game is when he gets out on the fast break and attacks the basket. Despite being smaller and lighter, I can say with confidence that Dragic is one of the best finishers at the basket in the entire league. If you want some examples, see what he did to Los Angeles back in 2010 in the Western Conference Finals or this nifty little finish here. But my favorite example is from this past year, when Dragic elicited a reaction from the zombie crowd at Staples Center.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN5jYTJQswY&feature=player_embedded

Read rest here

http://hoopshabit.com/phoenix-suns-is-goran-dragic-the-best-value-in-the-nba/

I know Dragic is probably unknown among many NBA fans so I thought I'll share this.

Only Paul, Westbrook and Jrue Holiday bested Dragic in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Of those players, it was Dragic who had the second-best field-goal percentage (.443) and the second-fewest turnovers (212).

If you look at Dragic after the All-Star break, Dragic raised his numbers to 16.1 points, 3.7 rebounds, 9.5 assists and 2.0 steals per game. The only player to average that for the entire 2012-13 season was Paul.

I think now that we have Bledsoe, Goran will play more off ball and that should increase his stat line even more.

TrueFan420
08-13-2013, 06:54 PM
He seems to not get a fair shake. Didnt like the addition of Bledsoe. Let him run the show and be a pg. Pair him with a real sg.

archdevil84
08-13-2013, 07:00 PM
its probably because he plays for the suns and the suns were a very bad team past season and because of that nobody realy payed much attention to them or the suns. dunno about the rocket years though (he played for the rockets earlier right?)

ManRam
08-13-2013, 07:00 PM
He probably doesn't quite get a fair shake because how bad Phoenix has gotten. I'm not sure how people rate him though. I'd imagine I'd rank him somewhere around 13-17 in terms of PGs. :shrug: Probably right around where I'd rank Bledsoe, George Hill, Jrue Holiday etc.

I'm not sure he's any worse than Holiday, for example. But everyone is on his nuts and no one talks about Dragic. Dragic runs laps around Holiday offensively (it does tighten up because of defense)

abe_froman
08-13-2013, 07:04 PM
yes,yes he is.but thats what happens when you play on a losing team,the bright spots usually get overlooked

sunsfan88
08-13-2013, 07:06 PM
He probably doesn't quite get a fair shake because how bad Phoenix has gotten. I'm not sure how people rate him though. I'd imagine I'd rank him somewhere around 13-17 in terms of PGs. :shrug: Probably right around where I'd rank Bledsoe, George Hill, Jrue Holiday etc.

I'm not sure he's any worse than Holiday, for example. But everyone is on his nuts and no one talks about Dragic. Dragic runs laps around Holiday offensively (it does tighten up because of defense)

How can you rank Bledsoe and Dragic in the same category when we have yet to see what Bledsoe will even look like as a starter and while Dragic is already a starter?

uptown0364
08-13-2013, 07:12 PM
I always think of this when someone mentions Dragic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgl1iotLKI

5ass
08-13-2013, 07:13 PM
I love Dragic. I think his ability to play off the ball and defense makes him very valuable. If Dragic was on a better team he would definitely get more love. The Rockets should've kept him over Lin. Dragic fits better with Howard and Harden.

BenFrank
08-13-2013, 07:13 PM
What is the status of Bledsoe? Starter or bench player

sunsfan88
08-13-2013, 07:13 PM
Crazy to think that people actually though Lin's contract was a bargain compared to Dragic's

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/07/6150125/jeremy-lins-new-contract-bargain-goran-dragic-standard

MrfadeawayJB
08-13-2013, 07:13 PM
He is very good, def a top 20 pg in the league. (That's saying something in the golden age of pg) and his size presents problems

asandhu23
08-13-2013, 07:18 PM
Most NBA fans don't know a single player outside of the ones NBA markets at All Star Games.

ManRam
08-13-2013, 07:18 PM
How can you rank Bledsoe and Dragic in the same category when we have yet to see what Bledsoe will even look like as a starter and while Dragic is already a starter?

That's fair. It could be a bit of a unknown. I'm really high on Bledsoe. I feel comfortable in what I believe he will/can do as a starter based on what we've already seen from him. But yeah, I'd rate Dragic higher at this point.

sunsfan88
08-13-2013, 07:20 PM
I always think of this when someone mentions Dragic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgl1iotLKI

I always think of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxThIGIB7g

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkDT-2Q52h8

and DEFINITELY THIS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWjQ7nZTkI

(broke MJ's record for most points scored ever in a quarter of a playoff game)

Bishnoff
08-13-2013, 07:49 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing Dragic play more as a SG with Bledsoe handling the PG duties. Whilst Dragic is a great passer, I don't like him as the primary ball handler and decision maker. Also, I think he is a better spot-up shooter than having to create his own shot.

Hawkeye15
08-13-2013, 08:00 PM
While Dragic is far from a star, I thought Morey made a big mistake giving Lin the same money Dragic wanted essentially. Dragic is so much better.

5ass
08-13-2013, 08:05 PM
While Dragic is far from a star, I thought Morey made a big mistake giving Lin the same money Dragic wanted essentially. Dragic is so much better.

I totally agree, but who do you think has more trade value right now, Lin or Dragic? Keeping in mind Lin's marketing value.

LeperMessiah
08-13-2013, 08:09 PM
Great fantasy pick up

kdspurman
08-13-2013, 08:12 PM
He's very underrated, he's a really good point guard that does a lot of things well. I know about him all too well.

TheMightyHumph
08-13-2013, 08:20 PM
It's a matter of opinion, and your opinion is that he is.

topdog
08-13-2013, 08:35 PM
I love Dragic. I think his ability to play off the ball and defense makes him very valuable. If Dragic was on a better team he would definitely get more love. The Rockets should've kept him over Lin. Dragic fits better with Howard and Harden.

Interesting how Dragic is involved in one deal that makes Mory look like a genius and another that shows he is indeed flawed and human: Brooks to the Suns for Dragic and a first rounder then let Goran walk so you can pay Lin more(y)

Anyway, I don't know that Dragic is really underrated so much as other guys are overrated. Remember, people were pretty excited about Kyle Lowry before last year and his great numbers just disappeared in Toronto.

b@llhog24
08-13-2013, 08:42 PM
Always liked him as a player. Wish he was still in Houston, he'd compliment Harden and Dwight really well.

All-In
08-13-2013, 08:57 PM
Yes Goran Dragic is underrated…I agree…but not only does he play for the “rebuilding” Suns the PG position is stacked….guys like Jeff Teague(14.6PPG 7.2AST), Greivis Vasquez(14PPG 9AST) or even Kemba Walker(17.7PPG 5.7AST) are all underrated Point Guards…they’ll never be Russell Westbrook or Chris Paul but they can be very good roll players on contending teams like a George Hill.

Bostonjorge
08-13-2013, 09:56 PM
I'd say he's as good as Rubio. I have Rubio over him but in his class. There are so many PG's now and he's not on the top 10 pg list.

Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Irving
Curry
Williams
Wall
Lillard
Rondo

Hawkeye15
08-13-2013, 09:58 PM
I totally agree, but who do you think has more trade value right now, Lin or Dragic? Keeping in mind Lin's marketing value.

Dragic easily. Lin didn't bring out asians in Houston like expected. Hell, nobody in Houston cares about the Rockets really, outside the die hards. We will see if that changes with the D12 catch.

Hawkeye15
08-13-2013, 09:59 PM
I'd say he's as good as Rubio. I have Rubio over him but in his class. There are so many PG's now and he's not on the top 10 pg list.

Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Irving
Curry
Williams
Wall
Lillard
Rondo

with a full offseason to work out, Rubio is easily better than Dragic this upcoming season. Remember, 2 sides of the floor.

Hawkeye15
08-13-2013, 09:59 PM
Interesting how Dragic is involved in one deal that makes Mory look like a genius and another that shows he is indeed flawed and human: Brooks to the Suns for Dragic and a first rounder then let Goran walk so you can pay Lin more(y)

Anyway, I don't know that Dragic is really underrated so much as other guys are overrated. Remember, people were pretty excited about Kyle Lowry before last year and his great numbers just disappeared in Toronto.

I literally admire you vendetta against Morey haha.

TimeForAHoliday
08-13-2013, 10:18 PM
He probably doesn't quite get a fair shake because how bad Phoenix has gotten. I'm not sure how people rate him though. I'd imagine I'd rank him somewhere around 13-17 in terms of PGs. :shrug: Probably right around where I'd rank Bledsoe, George Hill, Jrue Holiday etc.

I'm not sure he's any worse than Holiday, for example. But everyone is on his nuts and no one talks about Dragic. Dragic runs laps around Holiday offensively (it does tighten up because of defense)
Some of you guys really need to watch the games instead of just looking up the advanced stats of players.

one of Jrue Holiday's weaknesses is his shot selection.. but you could attribute that to Doug Collins **** offense (he stressed the most inefficient shot in basketball, the long 2)

He was much more efficient before Jason Richardson got injured and Doug Collins quit on the team.

Jrue's TS% will likely go up this year because he won't be asked to do much and he's in a much more point guard friendly system (Grevis frickin Vasquez averaged 14/9 here, lol. Also Brian Roberts averaged 14/9 when Greivis was out and he was starting) so fans like you will consider him better than the likes of Hill,,Bledsoe,etc.

Back to the topic at hand:
I always loved Dragic. Don't think he could be a starting PG on a contender but I think he would be an excellent 6th man off the bench.

I love his finishing ability and his ability to create shots for his teammates. The amount of times I would see him create a wide open shot to any of the other scrubs on the team to miss was far too often.

5ass
08-13-2013, 10:42 PM
Dragic easily. Lin didn't bring out asians in Houston like expected. Hell, nobody in Houston cares about the Rockets really, outside the die hards. We will see if that changes with the D12 catch.

I was more talking about the Chinese market.

Bishnoff
08-13-2013, 10:58 PM
Instead of ranking him against PG's, maybe start considering Dragic as a SG.

SportsFanatic10
08-13-2013, 10:58 PM
Some of you guys really need to watch the games instead of just looking up the advanced stats of players.

one of Jrue Holiday's weaknesses is his shot selection.. but you could attribute that to Doug Collins **** offense (he stressed the most inefficient shot in basketball, the long 2)

He was much more efficient before Jason Richardson got injured and Doug Collins quit on the team.

Jrue's TS% will likely go up this year because he won't be asked to do much and he's in a much more point guard friendly system (Grevis frickin Vasquez averaged 14/9 here, lol. Also Brian Roberts averaged 14/9 when Greivis was out and he was starting) so fans like you will consider him better than the likes of Hill,,Bledsoe,etc.

Back to the topic at hand:
I always loved Dragic. Don't think he could be a starting PG on a contender but I think he would be an excellent 6th man off the bench.

I love his finishing ability and his ability to create shots for his teammates. The amount of times I would see him create a wide open shot to any of the other scrubs on the team to miss was far too often.

not sure what you mean by this, i could name a few contenders that he could start for such as the heat, rockets, pacers, and knicks. it just depends on how the team is built.

Verbal Christ
08-13-2013, 11:11 PM
I agree. Really liked his game with the Rockets, but I also expected him to break out, and his statistical increase (14/7 from 12/5) was meager at best from similar usage with Houston. New offense? He has all the tools that's for sure.

Ebbs
08-13-2013, 11:14 PM
Dragic is very good but he's not top 10 at this point.

rockets-fan
08-13-2013, 11:49 PM
Dragic is awesome, so mad we paid Lin and no the dragon...loved that guy

Bostonjorge
08-14-2013, 12:33 AM
Dragic is not top 10 but top 20? No specific order.

Rubio
Lawson
Holiday
Conley
Vasquez
Jennings
Nash
Hill
Nelson
Walker
Teague
Calderon
Bledsoe

I'm not saying there all better then him but are 10 of those guys better? He's just hard to rank.

CELTICS4LYFE
08-14-2013, 12:45 AM
Who?

John Walls Era
08-14-2013, 01:08 AM
win

rockets-fan
08-14-2013, 03:27 AM
Dragic is not top 10 but top 20? No specific order.

Rubio
Lawson
Holiday
Conley
Vasquez
Jennings
Nash
Hill
Nelson
Walker
Teague
Calderon
Bledsoe

I'm not saying there all better then him but are 10 of those guys better? He's just hard to rank.

I'd take Dragic over anyone listed there

Huntey
08-14-2013, 04:23 AM
I know Dragic is probably unknown among many NBA fans so I thought I'll share this.

Only Paul, Westbrook and Jrue Holiday bested Dragic in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Of those players, it was Dragic who had the second-best field-goal percentage (.443) and the second-fewest turnovers (212).

If you look at Dragic after the All-Star break, Dragic raised his numbers to 16.1 points, 3.7 rebounds, 9.5 assists and 2.0 steals per game. The only player to average that for the entire 2012-13 season was Paul.

I think now that we have Bledsoe, Goran will play more off ball and that should increase his stat line even more.

What's even more telling is that those are better than Chris Paul's post all-star stats. And, throughout the season, Dragic had big games or went toe-to-toe against many of the top PGs in the league.

The fact that people are ranking him top 20 instead of top 10 shows that he's underrated; theres only 7-8 guys I'd rather have over Dragic.

I've noticed people in this thread question his defense but that really isn't a problem. People think he's a steve Nash clone on D (which is understandable) but, in reality, he's athletic, aggressive and scrappy.

Dragic's biggest problems are: his turnovers and his over aggressiveness at times. He can also be inconsistent but that seems to me to be because of the situation he's in; its much easier to let things slip when you have no chance of winning anything. When he lights a fire under himself he can really go off.

Even if you forget the stats, he's one of the more entertaining players to watch in the NBA. He'll start scrapping with guys, he'll go off and score 10-15 in a quarter, he'll make some crazy post move or he'll hit a game winner. He's high value in that regard.

Oh and, by the way, I'm super bias :D

raiderposting
08-14-2013, 04:46 AM
I'd take Dragic over anyone listed there

Over Lawson, Rubio, Conley? ill even throw in holiday. Come on let's not get carried away.

BHF
08-14-2013, 10:54 AM
Dragic is not top 10 but top 20? No specific order.

Rubio
Lawson
Holiday
Conley
Vasquez
Jennings
Nash
Hill
Nelson
Walker
Teague
Calderon
Bledsoe

I'm not saying there all better then him but are 10 of those guys better? He's just hard to rank.

did Lowry retire?

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 11:03 AM
Over Lawson, Rubio, Conley? ill even throw in holiday. Come on let's not get carried away.
Conley's the only one thats clearly better. Lawson and him are about the same.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 11:30 AM
I'd take Dragic over anyone listed there

you can't be serious. Rubio, Lawson, Conley, Holiday, and Bledsoe are all clearly going to be better this year. Walker most likely too.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 11:31 AM
with a full offseason to work out, Rubio is easily better than Dragic this upcoming season. Remember, 2 sides of the floor.
Rubio won't be way better than Dragic this upcoming season. Rubio first needs to learn to shoot. He may have been learning how to shoot from watching Shaq or something cause its that bad. Overrated as a playmaker too, he averages 3 turnovers with his 7 assists a game.

Maybe in years Rubio will clearly be better than Goran, but it won't be in a season or two. All this despite Rubio actually playing with a superstar in Kevin Love and a solid C in Pekovic and with good role players like Budinger and Shved. While Dragic has had what, Gortat and Dudley? Lmao!

Expect Dragic to even boast better numbers next season while finally playing another player who can create for himself and others (Bledsoe)


Don't think he could be a starting PG on a contender but I think he would be an excellent 6th man off the bench.



You are joking right? Dragic would EASILY start on the 2 time defending champs Miami Heat and they would easily repeat if they had him too. And he would also start on the Knicks, Pacers among others.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 11:31 AM
I came in here agreeing Dragic is underrated, but some of you are severely overrating him in here.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 11:33 AM
Rubio won't be way better than Dragic this upcoming season. Rubio first needs to learn to shoot. He may have been learning how to shoot from watching Shaq or something cause its that bad. Overrated as a playmaker too, he averages 3 turnovers with his 7 assists a game.

Maybe in years Rubio will clearly be better than Goran, but it won't be in a season or two. All this despite Rubio actually playing with a superstar in Kevin Love and a solid C in Pekovic and with good role players like Budinger and Shved. While Dragic has had what, Gortat and Dudley? Lmao!

Expect Dragic to even boast better numbers next season while finally playing another player who can create for himself and others (Bledsoe)


You are joking right? Dragic would EASILY start on the 2 time defending champs Miami Heat and they would easily repeat if they had him too. And he would also start on the Knicks, Pacers among others.

You realize that Rubio is exponentially a better defender, a far better playmaker, a better rebounder, and is far younger, and showed during the last 30 games that his shot has indeed improved, right?

Rubio projects to be better than Dragic this upcoming season. Pretty easily actually.

BHF
08-14-2013, 11:39 AM
you can't be serious. Rubio, Lawson, Conley, Holiday, and Bledsoe are all clearly going to be better this year. Walker most likely too.

Dragic is on the same level with these players and its not like he is 30 and declining so no they are not going to be clearly better this year.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 11:39 AM
you can't be serious. Rubio, Lawson, Conley, Holiday, and Bledsoe are all clearly going to be better this year. Walker most likely too.

Care to explain how? Lawson just lost the one HC that believed in him and developed him into the player he is today. And Lawson wasn't happy about it either. Denver might be a better playoff team with Shaw but I highly doubt that Shaw's system will increase Lawson's numbers from what it was with Karl.

Conley is clearly better, I'll give you that.

Holiday isn't better than Dragic. He plays far better defense than Goran but that's about it. Dragic is much better on offense.

And Bledsoe, like I said earlier is far too early to tell. How the hell do we know what he's going to play like with starter mins when he's never been a starter before.

Rubio, I explained above.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 11:45 AM
You realize that Rubio is exponentially a better defender, a far better playmaker, a better rebounder, and is far younger, and showed during the last 30 games that his shot has indeed improved, right?

Rubio projects to be better than Dragic this upcoming season. Pretty easily actually.
You are joking right? Rubio is a better defender, I'll give him that and he's younger. But Rubio is no way a far better play maker. People are living off those cute Euro highlights of his that came out when he got drafted, but he hasn't done jack **** in the NBA. He averages 7.3 assists a game with 3 turnovers and Dragic averages 7.4 assists and 2.8 turnovers a game. Dragic averages less turnovers and more assists.

Explain to me how he's a "far better playmaker" again?

Oh and btw did I mention that Rubio actually played with guys who can score while Dragic played with trash? Give Kevin Love, Pekovic and Budinger to Dragic and he would put up far better numbers than Rubio. We wouldn't even be having this discussion then.

Rubio will definitely improve but its ludicrous to say that Goran won't either. Dragic isn't some over the hill PG. He's barely 27.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 11:45 AM
Dragic is on the same level with these players and its not like he is 30 and declining so no they are not going to be clearly better this year.

Exactly! Those guys are definitely going to improve but so is Dragic.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 11:50 AM
Dragic is on the same level with these players and its not like he is 30 and declining so no they are not going to be clearly better this year.

he is nowhere near Conley, and Lawson (while limited upside) were CLEARLY better this last season. While I think Holiday is slightly overrated, he is still top half in the league (defense counts), and Bledsoe I expect to shine as a starter. Rubio is an elite defender potentially, who will push for league leader in assists, while still kicking in 11-14 a night in below average scoring efficiency. He projects to be better.

Conley is easily better. No argument against my claim. Lawson was clearly better last year. Holiday, Bledsoe, and Rubio should all have better seasons.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 11:59 AM
You are joking right? Rubio is a better defender, I'll give him that and he's younger.

got that out of the way


But Rubio is no way a far better play maker. People are living off those cute Euro highlights of his that came out when he got drafted, but he hasn't done jack **** in the NBA.

Except whip Dragic in assist percentage..


He averages 7.3 assists a game with 3 turnovers and Dragic averages 7.4 assists and 2.8 turnovers a game. Dragic averages less turnovers and more assists.

Explain to me how he's a "far better playmaker" again?

I am speaking about this upcoming season. Dragic didn't miss the first 25 games due to his acl surgery, and then need to work himself into playing for another 20+ games, yet Rubio had the same PER essentially, was a far better assist man, outrebounded Dragic, and was a superior defender. I am speaking of the upcoming season, when I expect (and all stats do too) Rubio to be clearly better.



Oh and btw did I mention that Rubio actually played with guys who can score while Dragic played with trash? Give Kevin Love, Pekovic and Budinger to Dragic and he would put up far better numbers than Rubio. We wouldn't even be having this discussion then.

You must have not payed attention to the Wolves, who lost 330 games due to injury. Love, Pekovic, and Rubio played roughly 18 minutes together all season. Budinger missed 65 games. This upcoming season, yep, I expect Rubio to be the benefactor of having a healthy squad around him, just like Rose, Paul, Westbrook, and all the other guys that fit your criteria here.


Rubio will definitely improve but its ludicrous to say that Goran won't either. Dragic isn't some over the hill PG. He's barely 27.

Dragic is in his peak age/years. He is what he is. An above average PG, who I think is underrated in the fact that I thought Houston made a mistake letting him go, and bringing in an inferior PG in Lin at the same money.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 12:01 PM
Care to explain how? Lawson just lost the one HC that believed in him and developed him into the player he is today. And Lawson wasn't happy about it either. Denver might be a better playoff team with Shaw but I highly doubt that Shaw's system will increase Lawson's numbers from what it was with Karl.

wait, you are going to use team success? That won't work, the Suns will fight for worst record in the west this year.

I said Lawson has limited upside, but he was better last year than Dragic.

ManRam
08-14-2013, 12:04 PM
you can't be serious. Rubio, Lawson, Conley, Holiday, and Bledsoe are all clearly going to be better this year. Walker most likely too.

I don't know about Holiday, Bledsoe or Walker honestly, at least not "clearly".

And Lawson's defense is so amazingly detrimental that I actually think you could argue that Dragic was better than him last season, at least his impact was more positive. Lawson isn't Jose Calderon-bad defensively, but he's up there. Lawson is better offensively but it's not by a huge magnitude...and the gap there might be smaller than the gap defensively IMO.

Dragic was better than Bledsoe and Holiday last season IMO. I know saying that he was better than Holiday might shock people, but Holiday was unbelievably terrible in the second half. I don't think it's foolish to suggest the same thing could be true this season. Though, you'd expect progress from Bledsoe.

He's not better than Rubio or Conley, nor will he ever be.

ManRam
08-14-2013, 12:06 PM
I came in here agreeing Dragic is underrated, but some of you are severely overrating him in here.

That's why the "overrated/underrated" discussions are often pointless to have. There are people that overrate him, there are people that underrate him and there are people in between. It's hard to really gauge universally how some of these guys truly are rated.

I do think he is underrated, but that all depends on how he is rated in the first place and I don't know that.

2-ONE-5
08-14-2013, 12:09 PM
He probably doesn't quite get a fair shake because how bad Phoenix has gotten. I'm not sure how people rate him though. I'd imagine I'd rank him somewhere around 13-17 in terms of PGs. :shrug: Probably right around where I'd rank Bledsoe, George Hill, Jrue Holiday etc.

I'm not sure he's any worse than Holiday, for example. But everyone is on his nuts and no one talks about Dragic. Dragic runs laps around Holiday offensively (it does tighten up because of defense)

Holiday is not in the same class as Hill and Dragic hes above them. Not that far ahead of Dragic (at the moment on the way to chaing being with better talent) but they are both way better than Hill.

As for Beldsoe hes going to bust. Hes not going to be able to run an offense. Best suited to come off the bench and be a lock D guy.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 12:19 PM
got that out of the way

I am speaking about this upcoming season. Dragic didn't miss the first 25 games due to his acl surgery, and then need to work himself into playing for another 20+ games, yet Rubio had the same PER essentially, was a far better assist man, outrebounded Dragic, and was a superior defender. I am speaking of the upcoming season, when I expect (and all stats do too) Rubio to be clearly better.


Yup, that's another thing Dragic is better than Rubio at...durability. And "all stats" indicate Rubio to be better? You do realize that Goran kicked Rubio's ***** in TS% AND eFG% right? It wasn't even close, Rubio had a eFG% of 38% while Dragic had almost 50%.

And Rubio does have a higher assist % (which I was surprised by) but his TOV% is so bad that Dragic again is the better playmaker. Rubio has a TOV% of 21 while Dragic has just 16. Rubio beats Dragic by 3% in assist % but Dragic kicks his butt by 5 in TOV%. Advantage, Dragic.

Not to mention that Dragic has ORtg of 109 while Rubio has just 99. And Dragic has twice the WS of Rubio as well with Rubio just having 3 and Dragic with 6.

I know you are talking about this coming season but to say that "all stats" support Rubio having a better season this coming year than Dragic is a bit too much imo.

You must have not payed attention to the Wolves, who lost 330 games due to injury. Love, Pekovic, and Rubio played roughly 18 minutes together all season. Budinger missed 65 games. This upcoming season, yep, I expect Rubio to be the benefactor of having a healthy squad around him, just like Rose, Paul, Westbrook, and all the other guys that fit your criteria here.

I really hope you aren't putting Rubio in the same class as those guys you just listed. If Minnesota had any one of those guys instead of Rubio, they would have made playoffs and done some damage even with all the injuries they had. And Suns had injuries too with Frye not playing at all and Gortat missing so many games. Dragic didn't have a cake walk either. I would even say that Minny's injury replacements were better than the Suns.

Plus Rubio didn't have to go through 2 coaching changes like Dragic had to. He had too dumb*** coaches while Rubio has had a pretty solid one.


Dragic is in his peak age/years. He is what he is.

Come on man, last season was Dragic's FIRST season as starting PG. Of course he will improve. Nash improved at age 30 after coming to PHX from Dallas. Not saying Goran will improve as much as Nash though ;)

valade16
08-14-2013, 12:20 PM
Here's some numbers:

Goran Dragic:
17.5 PER; .540 TS%; 5.2 TRB%; 35.7 AST%; 16.8 TOV%; 109 Ortg; .106 WS/48

Ricky Rubio:
16.2 PER; .482 TS%; 7.7 TRB%; 38.8 AST%; 21.4 TOV%; 99 Ortg; .082 WS/48

Mike Conley:
18.3 PER; .549 TS%; 4.8 TRB%; 29.5 AST%; 15.1 TOV%; 111 Ortg; .172 WS/48

Ty Lawson:
17.9 PER; .549 TS%; 4.4 TRB%; 30.2 AST%; 14.1 TOV%; 113 Ortg; .141 WS/48

Jrue Holiday:
16.7 PER; .496 TS%; 6.4 TRB%; 36.5 AST%; 17.3 TOV%: 99 Ortg; .055 WS/48

Eric Bledsoe:
17.5 PER; .513 TS%; 8.6 TRB%; 23.5 AST%; 17.9 TOV%; 102 Ortg; .115 WS/48

Kemba Walker:
18.8 PER; .517 TS%; 5.7 TRB%; 31.2 AST%; 12.4 TOV%; 105 Ortg; .080 WS/48

Judging purely by the numbers, Dragic played comparably well to pretty much everyone of those guys above last season. Now, with defense taken into account I think some guys pull ahead, but it's closer than many probably thought. Here are the leaderboards:

PER:
18.8 Walker
18.3 Conley
17.9 Lawson
17.5 Dragic
17.5 Bledsoe
16.7 Holiday
16.2 Rubio

TS%:
.549 Conley
.549 Lawson
.540 Dragic
.517 Walker
.513 Bledsoe
.496 Holiday
.482 Rubio

AST%:
38.8 Rubio
36.5 Holiday
35.7 Dragic
31.2 Walker
30.2 Lawson
29.5 Conley
23.5 Bledsoe

TOV%:
12.4 Walker
14.1 Lawson
15.1 Conley
16.8 Dragic
17.3 Holiday
17.9 Bledsoe
21.4 Rubio

Ortg:
113 Lawson
111 Conley
109 Dragic
105 Walker
102 Bledsoe
99 Rubio
99 Holiday

Dragic seems to be either 3rd or 4th best on every list. Food for thought.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 12:30 PM
I don't know about Holiday, Bledsoe or Walker honestly, at least not "clearly".

And Lawson's defense is so amazingly detrimental that I actually think you could argue that Dragic was better than him last season, at least his impact was more positive. Lawson isn't Jose Calderon-bad defensively, but he's up there. Lawson is better offensively but it's not by a huge magnitude...and the gap there might be smaller than the gap defensively IMO.

Dragic was better than Bledsoe and Holiday last season IMO. I know saying that he was better than Holiday might shock people, but Holiday was unbelievably terrible in the second half. I don't think it's foolish to suggest the same thing could be true this season. Though, you'd expect progress from Bledsoe.

He's not better than Rubio or Conley, nor will he ever be.

I backed off regarding Holiday and Bledsoe. But I do think Conley and Lawson were clearly better, and going into this year, the young PG's like Rubio, Walker, and Bledsoe will be better. I also think Holiday is better, though overrated by many.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 12:38 PM
[QUOTE=sunsfan88;26884628]Yup, that's another thing Dragic is better than Rubio at...durability. And "all stats" indicate Rubio to be better? You do realize that Goran kicked Rubio's ***** in TS% AND eFG% right? It wasn't even close, Rubio had a eFG% of 38% while Dragic had almost 50%.

It was Rubio's first injury of his life. Not really worried about him going forward. Throwing shooting/scoring numbers at me is fine, it's literally the one thing Dragic will have on him this upcoming season (which is what I keep referring to, not the past).


And Rubio does have a higher assist % (which I was surprised by) but his TOV% is so bad that Dragic again is the better playmaker. Rubio has a TOV% of 21 while Dragic has just 16. Rubio beats Dragic by 3% in assist % but Dragic kicks his butt by 5 in TOV%. Advantage, Dragic.

Again, we are talking about the upcoming year. I expect Rubio well into the 40's for assist percentage, now that his kickouts result in makes at a better rate than worst shooting 3 point team in a decade, which he had last year. A healthy Love/Pekovic (crossing fingers) alleviates his teammate being inefficient as well.


Not to mention that Dragic has ORtg of 109 while Rubio has just 99. And Dragic has twice the WS of Rubio as well with Rubio just having 3 and Dragic with 6.


I know you are talking about this coming season but to say that "all stats" support Rubio having a better season this coming year than Dragic is a bit too much imo.

Rubio's expected RAPM, WARP, etc, project higher by all stat guys.


I really hope you aren't putting Rubio in the same class as those guys you just listed.

Absolutely not. I was simply pointing out that you are trying to discredit (wrongly so, as I pointed out his team was in shambles with injuries) Rubio for having scoring talent around him, while the best in the game have scoring talent around them. News flash, in order to be a star, many times you need help around you to make you look better.


If Minnesota had any one of those guys instead of Rubio, they would have made playoffs and done some damage even with all the injuries they had.

With the injuries they had, there are only a few players in the game that could have possible dragged them into the playoffs. And LeBron or Durant isn't a Wolf.


And Suns had injuries too with Frye not playing at all and Gortat missing so many games. Dragic didn't have a cake walk either. I would even say that Minny's injury replacements were better than the Suns.

Dude, do you realize how many games the Wolves missed due to injury? Do I really need to explain it to you? No team in years and years has suffered what they did last year.


Plus Rubio didn't have to go through 2 coaching changes like Dragic had to. He had too dumb*** coaches while Rubio has had a pretty solid one.

Acceptable point.



Come on man, last season was Dragic's FIRST season as starting PG. Of course he will improve. Nash improved at age 30 after coming to PHX from Dallas. Not saying Goran will improve as much as Nash though ;)

He started some in Houston, I watched him play live multiple times, and I like his game, which is why I came in here to sort of agree. But I just don't think Dragic, with his skillset and age, is going to enter top tier PG area. I do think a player like Rubio can.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 12:44 PM
[QUOTE]


He started some in Houston, I watched him play live multiple times, and I like his game, which is why I came in here to sort of agree. But I just don't think Dragic, with his skillset and age, is going to enter top tier PG area. I do think a player like Rubio can.
I'll absolutely agree with you on that one. Rubio, in time, will definitely be a top 5 PG in this league. Maybe even better than that. And I don't think think Dragic will ever become top tier PG either. IMO I can't see Goran ever cracking top 8 not even top 10 probably. This league has too many good PGs now.

Only thing I disagree with you is that you said Rubio will be way better than Dragic next season. I think Rubio is still 2-3 years from becoming way better than a player like Draigc. Just my opinion though. Let's see what happens.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 12:45 PM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;26884710]
I'll absolutely agree with you on that one. Rubio, in time, will definitely be a top 5 PG in this league. Maybe even better than that. And I don't think think Dragic will ever become top tier PG either. IMO I can't see Goran ever cracking top 8 not even top 10 probably. This league has too many good PGs now.

Only thing I disagree with you is that you said Rubio will be way better than Dragic next season. I think Rubio is still 2-3 years from becoming way better than a player like Draigc. Just my opinion though. Let's see what happens.

We can revisit this next year my man. One of us, or maybe both haha, will be wrong.

I did love it when Dragic took over for Houston when Lowry went down. I like the way he plays.

MonroeFAN
08-14-2013, 12:46 PM
Pretty high on dragic, although he was fairly inconsistent in the first half of the season. In his defense, the entire organization seemed to be inconsistent.

texanmonstra011
08-14-2013, 01:22 PM
I agree completely that Dragic is terribly underrated. But it also doesn't help that he was on the Suns last year. No recognition or tv time whatsoever. Dragic is good though. He's actually really good.

Huntey
08-14-2013, 06:42 PM
he is nowhere near Conley, and Lawson (while limited upside) were CLEARLY better this last season. While I think Holiday is slightly overrated, he is still top half in the league (defense counts), and Bledsoe I expect to shine as a starter. Rubio is an elite defender potentially, who will push for league leader in assists, while still kicking in 11-14 a night in below average scoring efficiency. He projects to be better.

Conley is easily better. No argument against my claim. Lawson was clearly better last year. Holiday, Bledsoe, and Rubio should all have better seasons.

Sorry, what? Conley might be a slightly better defender and a bit better at getting to the rim, but Dragic isnt far off in those catagories and trumps him in almost everything else. Dragic is a far superior shooter/scorer and a much better passer even though he has less weapons on his team.

All-In
08-14-2013, 06:52 PM
I feel bad for guys like Dragic, Conley, Rubio and all these other “underrated” PG’s that have been discussed….it might seem like one day they can be a top 5 PG because of their “potential”….but what about Marcus Smart, Semaj Christon, Andrew Harrison, Dante Exum(PLEASE LOOK HIM UP IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY) or Emmanuel Mudiay…all these guys will be in the league in the next 2-3 years…most of them are skilled but all of them are very, very, very athletic and probably will supersede guys Dragic, Rubio, Lawson, Walker and whatever “underrated” PG you can think of in 5 years...the golden age of PG has not peaked just yet

Bishnoff
08-14-2013, 06:58 PM
I feel bad for guys like Dragic, Conley, Rubio and all these other “underrated” PG’s that have been discussed….it might seem like one day they can be a top 5 PG because of their “potential”….but what about Marcus Smart, Semaj Christon, Andrew Harrison, Dante Exum(PLEASE LOOK HIM UP IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY) or Emmanuel Mudiay…all these guys will be in the league in the next 2-3 years…most of them are skilled but all of them are very, very, very athletic and probably will supersede guys Dragic, Rubio, Lawson, Walker and whatever “underrated” PG you can think of in 5 years...the golden age of PG has not peaked just yet

Down in Australia, we have been watching Dante Exum and Ben Simmons for quite some time now. It's great to see the sons of NBL Import players from the 80's and 90's turning into awesome ballers. Kyrie is another example (although he was only born in Australia and moved back to the States when he was 2). Our national team (the Boomers) have a bright future.

Huntey
08-14-2013, 07:09 PM
Gotta say, I'm not as high on Exum as some people are. I think he'll be good but I've seen him projected as a better prospect than guys like Jabari Parker and Aaron Gordon which, to me, is bull****. He's good but I don't see him being a thing better than a good starter.

All-In
08-14-2013, 07:17 PM
Gotta say, I'm not as high on Exum as some people are. I think he'll be good but I've seen him projected as a better prospect than guys like Jabari Parker and Aaron Gordon which, to me, is bull****. He's good but I don't see him being a thing better than a good starter.

Well Jabari Parker is one thing...Aaron Gordon has to show me something at AZ this year to make me believe the hype...and only time will tell with Exum but from what I've seen I like

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 07:22 PM
Sorry, what? Conley might be a slightly better defender and a bit better at getting to the rim, but Dragic isnt far off in those catagories and trumps him in almost everything else. Dragic is a far superior shooter/scorer and a much better passer even though he has less weapons on his team.

Conley is far better dude. One of the top on the ball and team defenders at his position, and entered top 5-7 this year at PG. Conley is better on both sides of the ball. Offensive rating and TS% are stronger, and his defense is light years ahead of Dragic right now.

All-In
08-14-2013, 07:26 PM
Down in Australia, we have been watching Dante Exum and Ben Simmons for quite some time now. It's great to see the sons of NBL Import players from the 80's and 90's turning into awesome ballers. Kyrie is another example (although he was only born in Australia and moved back to the States when he was 2). Our national team (the Boomers) have a bright future.

Yea from what I’ve seen he looks great…he’s got such a pure stroke…I like his game…I can’t wait for the next 2 years of NBA drafts….theres gonna be such a spike in talent that teams like Philly that are bottoming out this year know how hard it is to get a superstar and what better way then the next 2 years drafts of rare talent…I here a lot of “best draft since 2003” talk but idk if I’d go that far but hey I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes to that

All-In
08-14-2013, 07:35 PM
Gotta say, I'm not as high on Exum as some people are. I think he'll be good but I've seen him projected as a better prospect than guys like Jabari Parker and Aaron Gordon which, to me, is bull****. He's good but I don't see him being a thing better than a good starter.

I mean I did see Aaron Gordon play at the U-19 World’s …he did win MVP…but I wasn’t that impressed with a whole lot on that team outside of like Jahlil Okafor...but he is crazy athletic

topdog
08-14-2013, 08:19 PM
I would even say that Minny's injury replacements were better than the Suns.

Not to butt into your and Hawkeye's little back-and-forth here, but this "point" is just funny to me considering that the Wolves lost just about every SG they put on the court last year going from Brandon Roy -> Malcolm Lee -> Josh Howard -> Mikael Gelabale.

Offensively, you might want to note that Rubio shot it better from the free throw line while getting there more often (per game). I would suggest that if Rubio is already a superior free throw shooter in year 2, it's not a huge leap to say he projects to be a better shooter overall than he's shown in a lockout and an injury recovery season.

lukass
08-14-2013, 08:24 PM
living in Phoenix and Detroit I see Dragic play a lot in fact I played against him in some pick up ball at LA FITNESS but there is absolutely no questioning his talent and confidence its his consistency that keeps him out of top PG discussions

Hawkeye15
08-14-2013, 09:17 PM
Not to butt into your and Hawkeye's little back-and-forth here, but this "point" is just funny to me considering that the Wolves lost just about every SG they put on the court last year going from Brandon Roy -> Malcolm Lee -> Josh Howard -> Mikael Gelabale.

Offensively, you might want to note that Rubio shot it better from the free throw line while getting there more often (per game). I would suggest that if Rubio is already a superior free throw shooter in year 2, it's not a huge leap to say he projects to be a better shooter overall than he's shown in a lockout and an injury recovery season.

Dragic went from a horrific shooter outside to a pretty damn good one in his early 20's. If Rubio puts the time in, why not? Hell, I will take an average shooter if he can still get to the line and finish at the rim, the rest of his game will be elite in the next few years.

sunsfan88
08-14-2013, 11:32 PM
living in Phoenix and Detroit I see Dragic play a lot in fact I played against him in some pick up ball at LA FITNESS but there is absolutely no questioning his talent and confidence its his consistency that keeps him out of top PG discussions
Dragic lives in LA?

Huntey
08-15-2013, 03:40 AM
Conley is far better dude. One of the top on the ball and team defenders at his position, and entered top 5-7 this year at PG. Conley is better on both sides of the ball. Offensive rating and TS% are stronger, and his defense is light years ahead of Dragic right now.

Conley hardly edges out Dragic in TS% and PER and Dragic actually has a higher offensive efficiency rating. And, you have to remember that Dragic is the lone weapon on the Suns and the other teams defenses focus on him. Dragic had more points, rebounds and assists total in less minutes than Conley. Dragic also had 12 more double doubles than Conley. You can't say Conley is better than dragic offensively because, if anything, both are as good as each other (though for my money, I'd take Goran).

I agree Conely is a better defender but thats the only real edge he has. You make it sound like Dragic is trash on D though and he's not. It's also not as if dragic had great defensive team-mates or schemes to back him up when he got into trouble either whereas Conley did.

If Conley is a top 5-7 PG in this league then Dragic is for sure in the top 10.

topdog
08-15-2013, 09:12 PM
Conley hardly edges out Dragic in TS% and PER and Dragic actually has a higher offensive efficiency rating. And, you have to remember that Dragic is the lone weapon on the Suns and the other teams defenses focus on him. Dragic had more points, rebounds and assists total in less minutes than Conley. Dragic also had 12 more double doubles than Conley. You can't say Conley is better than dragic offensively because, if anything, both are as good as each other (though for my money, I'd take Goran).

I agree Conely is a better defender but thats the only real edge he has. You make it sound like Dragic is trash on D though and he's not. It's also not as if dragic had great defensive team-mates or schemes to back him up when he got into trouble either whereas Conley did.

If Conley is a top 5-7 PG in this league then Dragic is for sure in the top 10.

Let's first make this clear, neither Conley nor Dragic are top 7 those players in some variation of order are:

1. Paul 2. Parker 3. Westbrook 4. Rose 5. Curry 6. Irving 7. D.Williams

Rondo and Conley would be next on my list. You neglect to mention that Conley is a better shooter than Dragic in pretty much every way: 3pt%, FT%, TS% and eFG% Dragic actually is the worst 3pt and FT shooter by percentage of mid-tier PGs (i.e. the Hills, Lawsons, Lowrys of the world).

Finally, José Calderon is statistically superior to Dragic in PER, every shooting stat, assists (by number and percent), win shares, offensive rating, ect. He also was on some pretty crappy teams last year. So, what say you of him? Over or underrated? Better than Dragic or... what stat says he's not?

Bishnoff
08-15-2013, 09:39 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing Dragic play more as a SG with Bledsoe handling the PG duties. Whilst Dragic is a great passer, I don't like him as the primary ball handler and decision maker. Also, I think he is a better spot-up shooter than having to create his own shot.


Instead of ranking him against PG's, maybe start considering Dragic as a SG.

Hornacek has already come out and said that Dragic will play significant minutes at SG, much like him (Hornacek) moving from starting PG to starting SG when the Suns traded for KJ.

Enough of this "Dragic is/isn't top 10 PG" talk, it'll be irrelevant soon enough. The thread topic is that he's an underrated player.

topdog
08-15-2013, 11:27 PM
Enough of this "Dragic is/isn't top 10 PG" talk, it'll be irrelevant soon enough. The thread topic is that he's an underrated player.

Which is the issue with all "underrated" threads - players become overrated within them.

Bostonjorge
08-16-2013, 12:09 AM
Let's first make this clear, neither Conley nor Dragic are top 7 those players in some variation of order are:

1. Paul 2. Parker 3. Westbrook 4. Rose 5. Curry 6. Irving 7. D.Williams

Rondo and Conley would be next on my list. You neglect to mention that Conley is a better shooter than Dragic in pretty much every way: 3pt%, FT%, TS% and eFG% Dragic actually is the worst 3pt and FT shooter by percentage of mid-tier PGs (i.e. the Hills, Lawsons, Lowrys of the world).

Finally, José Calderon is statistically superior to Dragic in PER, every shooting stat, assists (by number and percent), win shares, offensive rating, ect. He also was on some pretty crappy teams last year. So, what say you of him? Over or underrated? Better than Dragic or... what stat says he's not?

What about wall and rookie of the year Lillard?

topdog
08-16-2013, 01:41 AM
What about wall and rookie of the year Lillard?

As far as? I'm simply pointing out that some Suns fans are pushing Dragic a bit hard without getting into players that have a good chance of moving up in the PG standings this year (but I'd doubt cracking the top 7).

Wall really seemed to get it going towards the end of last year and I'm excited to see the progression of the Wizards young backcourt. Lillard is a bit suspect to me as someone who hoists a lot of shots and doesn't exactly pull his weight on the other end of the court - sort of reminds me of Marcus Thornton.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 10:01 AM
Conley hardly edges out Dragic in TS% and PER and Dragic actually has a higher offensive efficiency rating. And, you have to remember that Dragic is the lone weapon on the Suns and the other teams defenses focus on him. Dragic had more points, rebounds and assists total in less minutes than Conley. Dragic also had 12 more double doubles than Conley. You can't say Conley is better than dragic offensively because, if anything, both are as good as each other (though for my money, I'd take Goran).

I agree Conely is a better defender but thats the only real edge he has. You make it sound like Dragic is trash on D though and he's not. It's also not as if dragic had great defensive team-mates or schemes to back him up when he got into trouble either whereas Conley did.

If Conley is a top 5-7 PG in this league then Dragic is for sure in the top 10.

Conley is exponentially a better defender. That side of the ball isn't even close, and I am not calling Dragic a bad defender, I am saying Conley has turned into an elite defender. Offensively, they are a wash.

This makes Conley much better. I really don't think most understand how good he was this year. One of the bigger reasons Memphis was so tough.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2013, 10:02 AM
Hornacek has already come out and said that Dragic will play significant minutes at SG, much like him (Hornacek) moving from starting PG to starting SG when the Suns traded for KJ.

Enough of this "Dragic is/isn't top 10 PG" talk, it'll be irrelevant soon enough. The thread topic is that he's an underrated player.

which he is I believe

Pluvious
08-16-2013, 01:25 PM
I'd take Dragic over anyone listed there

Everyone says how terrible the Suns roster was last season. Oh yeah? Maybe Dragic just didn't do much to really help get wins (which is the case with many NBA players)?

Take a look at the roster for the Suns last season:

http://www.nba.com/suns/roster/2012

Now take a look at the roster from the season before:

http://www.nba.com/suns/roster/2011

The big differences in the team would be the 2011 team had Robin Lopez, Grant Hill, Steve Nash, and Channing Frye.

The 2012 Team had Jermaine O'Neal, Michael Beasley, Luis Scola, PJ Tucker, and Goran Dragic.

The rest of the differences are superficial. I mention this because the above poster says Dragic over Nash (maybe because Nash is older. Also because people always say how bad the Suns team was (and they won very few games) but the year before they were just as bad. However, the 2011 team just barely missed the playoffs.

The main difference to me is Nash vs Dragic. Nash wins games consistently. Dragic, he's just another player right now. Nothing special at all. Just stats. He needs to develop into a leader and player that helps the team win.

As far as the rest of the comparison between the two teams:

Lopez vs O'Neal. Even Suns fans will tell you O'Neal was the better player last year to Lopez.
Scola vs Frye. Both are solid players but Frye did work extremely well with Nash as a stretch 4.
Hill vs PJ Tucker. For any of you not aware Tucker was the Suns biggest bright spot and by far best defensive player. Hill was still better of course...although he struggled early that season and was showing his age more then the previous season. Still a great defender though.

Anyway, I just think people over value stats in many cases (including assists) and this is one of them. Dragic never really got Gortat going or found shooters for easy shots...and for the guy who had the ball all the time this is a big thing.

king4day
08-16-2013, 02:21 PM
Everyone says how terrible the Suns roster was last season. Oh yeah? Maybe Dragic just didn't do much to really help get wins (which is the case with many NBA players)?

Take a look at the roster for the Suns last season:

http://www.nba.com/suns/roster/2012

Now take a look at the roster from the season before:

http://www.nba.com/suns/roster/2011

The big differences in the team would be the 2011 team had Robin Lopez, Grant Hill, Steve Nash, and Channing Frye.

The 2012 Team had Jermaine O'Neal, Michael Beasley, Luis Scola, PJ Tucker, and Goran Dragic.

The rest of the differences are superficial. I mention this because the above poster says Dragic over Nash (maybe because Nash is older. Also because people always say how bad the Suns team was (and they won very few games) but the year before they were just as bad. However, the 2011 team just barely missed the playoffs.

The main difference to me is Nash vs Dragic. Nash wins games consistently. Dragic, he's just another player right now. Nothing special at all. Just stats. He needs to develop into a leader and player that helps the team win.

As far as the rest of the comparison between the two teams:

Lopez vs O'Neal. Even Suns fans will tell you O'Neal was the better player last year to Lopez.
Scola vs Frye. Both are solid players but Frye did work extremely well with Nash as a stretch 4.
Hill vs PJ Tucker. For any of you not aware Tucker was the Suns biggest bright spot and by far best defensive player. Hill was still better of course...although he struggled early that season and was showing his age more then the previous season. Still a great defender though.

Anyway, I just think people over value stats in many cases (including assists) and this is one of them. Dragic never really got Gortat going or found shooters for easy shots...and for the guy who had the ball all the time this is a big thing.

Dragic is more of a scoring guard. He has passing ability but he's not your Steve Nash conventional PG.
The other side of it is, the teams are a whole lot different. The Nash teams had tons of chemistry together. Last year we had I think like 6-8 new players. Apparently a lot of Suns players quit on the team. So that season may not be the best example.

Also, holy **** dude, where've you been? Haven't seen you post in years.

Huntey
08-17-2013, 05:48 AM
Let's first make this clear, neither Conley nor Dragic are top 7 those players in some variation of order are:

1. Paul 2. Parker 3. Westbrook 4. Rose 5. Curry 6. Irving 7. D.Williams

Rondo and Conley would be next on my list. You neglect to mention that Conley is a better shooter than Dragic in pretty much every way: 3pt%, FT%, TS% and eFG% Dragic actually is the worst 3pt and FT shooter by percentage of mid-tier PGs (i.e. the Hills, Lawsons, Lowrys of the world).

Finally, José Calderon is statistically superior to Dragic in PER, every shooting stat, assists (by number and percent), win shares, offensive rating, ect. He also was on some pretty crappy teams last year. So, what say you of him? Over or underrated? Better than Dragic or... what stat says he's not?

To be clear, I didn't say Conley was a top 7 PG, i was stating that if Conley was rated that high (as the other poster stated) then dragic shouldn't be much lower in the rankings.

I also did mention Conley's offensive stats being better than Dragics but they're pretty close in many categories. I also mentioned that Conley played more minutes and had more weapons to keep defenses honest so that helps him in many of those stats.

I believe Calderon is a good offensive player and I would say he's underrated in some respects but I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make by bringing him up. If you're mentioning that stats don't necissarily tell the whole story then I would agree with you. If you believed that stats were the be-all-end-all when it comes to whom is better then Calderon might be the best PG in the league.

I was merely countering an argument that mentioned stats. I don't really put a lot of stock in intricate, advanced stats as they still can't tell the whole story; They need to be put in context.

Huntey
08-17-2013, 06:14 AM
Conley is exponentially a better defender. That side of the ball isn't even close, and I am not calling Dragic a bad defender, I am saying Conley has turned into an elite defender. Offensively, they are a wash.

This makes Conley much better. I really don't think most understand how good he was this year. One of the bigger reasons Memphis was so tough.

'Much better' is hyperbole.

My final point: in head-to-head match-ups last season Dragic out performed Conley. In the 4 games they played against each other (they split the season series btw) Conley averaged 8.5ppg on less than 29% shooting, 5.4apg, 2rpg all in an astounding 36.5 minutes per game. Dragic, on the other hand, had 14.3ppg on 50% shooting, 6.3apg and 3.3 rebounds in 33.5 minutes. They both had the same number of turnovers and Conley got a couple more steals.

I recognise that 4 games is a small sample size. I also admit that neither of these players put up great numbers but for dragic to very clearly out-perform this guy on both sides of the ball and come away with two wins gives a good indication, in my eyes, of who is better.

3baller9
08-17-2013, 09:01 AM
The one underrated thing about Dragic is his defense!

He has great size (6-4) for the position and with his quick legs has the abilty to stay in front of his man more often than not. He's also smart playing off the ball where he gets most of his steals and yet he doesn't gamble nearly as much as people would think.
He is not an elite defender but he sure is a very good one with his only real weakness being his strength but he makes up for it with his size, toughness and his aggressive play.

Hawkeye15
08-17-2013, 11:11 AM
'Much better' is hyperbole.

My final point: in head-to-head match-ups last season Dragic out performed Conley. In the 4 games they played against each other (they split the season series btw) Conley averaged 8.5ppg on less than 29% shooting, 5.4apg, 2rpg all in an astounding 36.5 minutes per game. Dragic, on the other hand, had 14.3ppg on 50% shooting, 6.3apg and 3.3 rebounds in 33.5 minutes. They both had the same number of turnovers and Conley got a couple more steals.

I recognise that 4 games is a small sample size. I also admit that neither of these players put up great numbers but for dragic to very clearly out-perform this guy on both sides of the ball and come away with two wins gives a good indication, in my eyes, of who is better.

Much better is a fact.

Head to heads are a garbage way to measure players honestly. You can have Dragic, I will take the elite point of attack defender with better offensive efficiency.

Hawkeye15
08-17-2013, 11:12 AM
The one underrated thing about Dragic is his defense!

He has great size (6-4) for the position and with his quick legs has the abilty to stay in front of his man more often than not. He's also smart playing off the ball where he gets most of his steals and yet he doesn't gamble nearly as much as people would think.
He is not an elite defender but he sure is a very good one with his only real weakness being his strength but he makes up for it with his size, toughness and his aggressive play.

Dragic gives up a PER of 18.5 to his guy (league average is 15), and his team is over a point per 100 possessions on that end with him sitting. Not a very good defender.

3baller9
08-17-2013, 02:45 PM
Dragic gives up a PER of 18.5 to his guy (league average is 15), and his team is over a point per 100 possessions on that end with him sitting. Not a very good defender.That was last season on a very bad team. A season before he gave up a PER of 12.7 and never in his career did he came close to the last season number.

I don't want anyone to think Dragic is an elite defender but he came into the league known for his defense and toughness and not for his passing or shooting.

Huntey
08-17-2013, 03:52 PM
Much better is a fact.

Head to heads are a garbage way to measure players honestly. You can have Dragic, I will take the elite point of attack defender with better offensive efficiency.

How on earth is it a garbage way to measure who's better?? Taking in to consideration different schedules and varying levels of team talent, one-on-one match-ups are one of the best ways to tell who is better as it reduces many of the variables that apply when compairing season averages.

topdog
08-17-2013, 06:43 PM
To be clear, I didn't say Conley was a top 7 PG, i was stating that if Conley was rated that high (as the other poster stated) then dragic shouldn't be much lower in the rankings.

I also did mention Conley's offensive stats being better than Dragics but they're pretty close in many categories. I also mentioned that Conley played more minutes and had more weapons to keep defenses honest so that helps him in many of those stats.

I believe Calderon is a good offensive player and I would say he's underrated in some respects but I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make by bringing him up. If you're mentioning that stats don't necissarily tell the whole story then I would agree with you. If you believed that stats were the be-all-end-all when it comes to whom is better then Calderon might be the best PG in the league.

I was merely countering an argument that mentioned stats. I don't really put a lot of stock in intricate, advanced stats as they still can't tell the whole story; They need to be put in context.

My point in bringing up Calderon is a general point for the argument overall where in previous pages posters want to go line-by-line through stats and say that Dragic is better at this or that than one player or another.

So we are sort of in agreement that you have to have context, but you have to look at it both ways i.e. minutes, team strength/weakness, ect. You assume more minutes should mean better stats but you are failing to put together why Dragic (on a team all you pro-Dragic fellas are calling "trash") isn't playing as many minutes as Conley if he's such a difference maker. By the same token, isn't Conley giving superior output in playing better defense for more minutes and earning similar stats on similar percentages without detracting from the other options on his team?


How on earth is it a garbage way to measure who's better?? Taking in to consideration different schedules and varying levels of team talent, one-on-one match-ups are one of the best ways to tell who is better as it reduces many of the variables that apply when compairing season averages.

Head-to-heads don't tell you about the individual's typical performance but rather a very specific one that happens at most 4 times a regular season. Often times, it comes down to a specific attribute of one player which is the other player's weakness and so they are exploited in that singular matchup. The prime example that comes to mind for me is the matchup of Greg Oden and Roy Hibbert in college. Oden was a force that dominated just about every game in some fashion, but Hibbert's length and standing reach won him head-to-heads. That didn't meant that Hibbert was the better player, but rather that he was a favorable matchup against Oden.

pupsingh
08-17-2013, 06:46 PM
Grevis Vasquez. 3rd in the entire association in assists, in a league with a lot of very good PG's currently. yet most people see him as a backup pg at best

Hawkeye15
08-17-2013, 06:52 PM
That was last season on a very bad team. A season before he gave up a PER of 12.7 and never in his career did he came close to the last season number.

I don't want anyone to think Dragic is an elite defender but he came into the league known for his defense and toughness and not for his passing or shooting.

he gave up a PER of 19 to PG's the previous year, of which he played the majority of his possessions.

I think he is a decent defender, sneaky, but not good.

Hawkeye15
08-17-2013, 06:53 PM
How on earth is it a garbage way to measure who's better?? Taking in to consideration different schedules and varying levels of team talent, one-on-one match-ups are one of the best ways to tell who is better as it reduces many of the variables that apply when compairing season averages.

your sample size is miniscule. That is why it's garbage. Unless they have played against each other a ton of times, playoffs included, I don't even bother with H2H.

Haven't looked it up in a while, but Deron used to whup on CP3 in head to heads. Does that make him better? Hell to the no.

3baller9
08-17-2013, 07:51 PM
he gave up a PER of 19 to PG's the previous year, of which he played the majority of his possessions.

I think he is a decent defender, sneaky, but not good.That's just wrong... If we are talking 2011-2012 season he had a PER of 19 and gave up a PER of 12.7 to PG's.

EDIT:http://www.82games.com/1112/11HOU5.HTM

Huntey
08-18-2013, 06:04 AM
My point in bringing up Calderon is a general point for the argument overall where in previous pages posters want to go line-by-line through stats and say that Dragic is better at this or that than one player or another.

So we are sort of in agreement that you have to have context, but you have to look at it both ways i.e. minutes, team strength/weakness, ect. You assume more minutes should mean better stats but you are failing to put together why Dragic (on a team all you pro-Dragic fellas are calling "trash") isn't playing as many minutes as Conley if he's such a difference maker. By the same token, isn't Conley giving superior output in playing better defense for more minutes and earning similar stats on similar percentages without detracting from the other options on his team?

Dragic didn't play so many minutes a game because there was no need to; the Suns weren't in most games from the start and, in all honesty, they were tanking anyway. Another reason was that Alvin Gentry coached the Suns for the first half of the season and Gentry always made sure he limited minutes of players; over the 4 years with the Suns I don't think he let anyone Average over 35 mins a game. More reasons could be that the Suns drafted Marshall with a lottery pick and played him more, or that this was Dragics first full year as a starter after a year with a different system and he was being eased into his role. I don't know.

As I said, it comes down to the situation and the two players we're debating couldn't have been in more different situations. My belief is that if you swapped the two players Dragic would thrive and Conley would find thing much more difficult.


Head-to-heads don't tell you about the individual's typical performance but rather a very specific one that happens at most 4 times a regular season. Often times, it comes down to a specific attribute of one player which is the other player's weakness and so they are exploited in that singular matchup. The prime example that comes to mind for me is the matchup of Greg Oden and Roy Hibbert in college. Oden was a force that dominated just about every game in some fashion, but Hibbert's length and standing reach won him head-to-heads. That didn't meant that Hibbert was the better player, but rather that he was a favorable matchup against Oden.

I understand that physical attributes can have a lot to do with who wins the match-up but, when you have two players putting up similar stats, those things have to be taken into account. Obviously, I'm not going to say that because Conley shot 29% that makes Dragic an elite defender or that Dragic shooting 50% makes Conley crap, but there's still a lot to take away from seeing two players go one-on-one.

To conclude, Conley's defense might be what makes him a better player but he's really not so far ahead of Dragic in the over-all scheme of things. I would take Dragic over Conley because I think he is a more skilled offensive player who can still hold his own on D.

topdog
08-18-2013, 03:56 PM
Dragic didn't play so many minutes a game because there was no need to; the Suns weren't in most games from the start and, in all honesty, they were tanking anyway. Another reason was that Alvin Gentry coached the Suns for the first half of the season and Gentry always made sure he limited minutes of players; over the 4 years with the Suns I don't think he let anyone Average over 35 mins a game. More reasons could be that the Suns drafted Marshall with a lottery pick and played him more, or that this was Dragics first full year as a starter after a year with a different system and he was being eased into his role. I don't know.

The point stands that, stats more-or-less equal, Conley maintained his for those extra minutes per game including being a better shooter, a more impactful defender and turning it over less in more minutes. Anything that Dragic would do in those extra minutes is purely hypothetical.


As I said, it comes down to the situation and the two players we're debating couldn't have been in more different situations. My belief is that if you swapped the two players Dragic would thrive and Conley would find thing much more difficult.

I disagree. People assume because Memphis is a good defensive team that a more-offensive oriented player can replace one of the players and they're a better team, but you can't neglect the fact that Conley's perimeter 1-on-1 defense is a big part of elevating the team as he prevents guards from putting pressure on below-the-rim players/defenders in Gasol and Randolph. Additionally, Conley's 4% better 3pt shot helps Memphis' spacing more than Dragic theoretically would and Dragic's assist percentage likely goes down with the high post-low post passing game the team is centered around.


I understand that physical attributes can have a lot to do with who wins the match-up but, when you have two players putting up similar stats, those things have to be taken into account. Obviously, I'm not going to say that because Conley shot 29% that makes Dragic an elite defender or that Dragic shooting 50% makes Conley crap, but there's still a lot to take away from seeing two players go one-on-one.

The last meeting between Dragic and Conley is a great example of why you can't read too much into head-to-heads. Conley played 37 minutes while Dragic played 24. You have 13 minutes where Conley was on the court and Dragic wasn't. What happened during that time and who was really guarding Conley? The assumption in a "head-to-head" is that everything going both ways can be attributed to the two players involved but obviously someone else was on Conley for at least 13 minutes, not to mention instances where help defense can be more effective than the initial defender i.e. the perimeter defender gets blown by but the big stops the penetration and creates the bad shot.


To conclude, Conley's defense might be what makes him a better player but he's really not so far ahead of Dragic in the over-all scheme of things. I would take Dragic over Conley because I think he is a more skilled offensive player who can still hold his own on D.

Conley is not just a better defensive player, but shoots better from 3 and the line while having fewer turnovers and higher efficiency. He's better offensively (if not as flashy) and is more than just a bit better on defense including being 3rd in the league in steals per game.

sunsfan88
12-14-2013, 02:59 AM
Through Friday's game, Bledsoe is averaging 19.2 points and 6.3 assists while Dragic is averaging 19.0 points and 6.2 assists. The last teammates to average more than 18 points and six assists over an entire season were Michael Jordan (30.1, 6.1) and Scottie Pippen (21.0, 7.0) in the 1991-92 season...The Suns are now No. 7 in the crowded West playoff picture.

The addition of Bledsoe has really allowed Dragic to be more aggressive in scoring. Hope it continues.

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:30 AM
I'd say he's as good as Rubio. I have Rubio over him but in his class. There are so many PG's now and he's not on the top 10 pg list.

Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Irving
Curry
Williams
Wall
Lillard
Rondo

that's your order?

here's mine:
paul
parker
westbrook
curry
lillard
Williams
dragic
irving
wall

rondo/rose hurt

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:36 AM
Care to explain how? Lawson just lost the one HC that believed in him and developed him into the player he is today. And Lawson wasn't happy about it either. Denver might be a better playoff team with Shaw but I highly doubt that Shaw's system will increase Lawson's numbers from what it was with Karl.

Conley is clearly better, I'll give you that.

Holiday isn't better than Dragic. He plays far better defense than Goran but that's about it. Dragic is much better on offense.

And Bledsoe, like I said earlier is far too early to tell. How the hell do we know what he's going to play like with starter mins when he's never been a starter before.

Rubio, I explained above.

no, conley is not better than dragic

I agree Lawson and Rubio are better than dragic

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:42 AM
I feel bad for guys like Dragic, Conley, Rubio and all these other “underrated” PG’s that have been discussed….it might seem like one day they can be a top 5 PG because of their “potential”….but what about Marcus Smart, Semaj Christon, Andrew Harrison, Dante Exum(PLEASE LOOK HIM UP IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY) or Emmanuel Mudiay…all these guys will be in the league in the next 2-3 years…most of them are skilled but all of them are very, very, very athletic and probably will supersede guys Dragic, Rubio, Lawson, Walker and whatever “underrated” PG you can think of in 5 years...the golden age of PG has not peaked just yet

why even bring up marcus smart? you haven't even brought up Isaiah Thomas yet.

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:45 AM
What about wall and rookie of the year Lillard?

lillard yes. wall no.

Jarvo
12-14-2013, 03:46 AM
I always think of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxThIGIB7g

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkDT-2Q52h8

and DEFINITELY THIS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWjQ7nZTkI

(broke MJ's record for most points scored ever in a quarter of a playoff game)

Yes he is! I was just gonna post that video doing the spin move with the layup. He has crazy handles, play D and can score. It's just because he play for The Suns and they are losing smh. I ALWAYS end up trading for him in 2K

zn23
12-14-2013, 03:51 AM
He's having an excellent year, I would say he's had an all-star caliber season. I love that backcourt combo of him and Bledsoe.

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:56 AM
Yes he is! I was just gonna post that video doing the spin move with the layup. He has crazy handles, play D and can score. It's just because he play for The Suns and they are losing smh. I ALWAYS end up trading for him in 2K

im assuming you're talking about the suns last season bcuz:

they are 4 games above .500 and currently in 6th place in the west or 3rd place in the east.

suns d is ranked in the top 10

sunsfan88
12-14-2013, 05:15 AM
no, conley is not better than dragic

I agree Lawson and Rubio are better than dragic


that's your order?

here's mine:
paul
parker
westbrook
curry
lillard
Williams
dragic
irving
wall

rondo/rose hurt
:confused:

koreancabbage
12-14-2013, 10:20 AM
gragic is awesome. great all round game.

waveycrockett
12-14-2013, 10:27 AM
2 years ago he was a monster for the Rockets when Lowry went down. Easily a top-25 player the 2nd half of that season. If HOU had kept him instead of Lin they would be so much better.

Jarvo
12-14-2013, 10:50 AM
im assuming you're talking about the suns last season bcuz:

they are 4 games above .500 and currently in 6th place in the west or 3rd place in the east.

suns d is ranked in the top 10


Not really in full NBA mode yet lol

smood999
12-14-2013, 11:50 AM
Here's some numbers:

Goran Dragic:
17.5 PER; .540 TS%; 5.2 TRB%; 35.7 AST%; 16.8 TOV%; 109 Ortg; .106 WS/48

Ricky Rubio:
16.2 PER; .482 TS%; 7.7 TRB%; 38.8 AST%; 21.4 TOV%; 99 Ortg; .082 WS/48

Mike Conley:
18.3 PER; .549 TS%; 4.8 TRB%; 29.5 AST%; 15.1 TOV%; 111 Ortg; .172 WS/48

Ty Lawson:
17.9 PER; .549 TS%; 4.4 TRB%; 30.2 AST%; 14.1 TOV%; 113 Ortg; .141 WS/48

Jrue Holiday:
16.7 PER; .496 TS%; 6.4 TRB%; 36.5 AST%; 17.3 TOV%: 99 Ortg; .055 WS/48

Eric Bledsoe:
17.5 PER; .513 TS%; 8.6 TRB%; 23.5 AST%; 17.9 TOV%; 102 Ortg; .115 WS/48

Kemba Walker:
18.8 PER; .517 TS%; 5.7 TRB%; 31.2 AST%; 12.4 TOV%; 105 Ortg; .080 WS/48

Judging purely by the numbers, Dragic played comparably well to pretty much everyone of those guys above last season. Now, with defense taken into account I think some guys pull ahead, but it's closer than many probably thought. Here are the leaderboards:

PER:
18.8 Walker
18.3 Conley
17.9 Lawson
17.5 Dragic
17.5 Bledsoe
16.7 Holiday
16.2 Rubio

TS%:
.549 Conley
.549 Lawson
.540 Dragic
.517 Walker
.513 Bledsoe
.496 Holiday
.482 Rubio

AST%:
38.8 Rubio
36.5 Holiday
35.7 Dragic
31.2 Walker
30.2 Lawson
29.5 Conley
23.5 Bledsoe

TOV%:
12.4 Walker
14.1 Lawson
15.1 Conley
16.8 Dragic
17.3 Holiday
17.9 Bledsoe
21.4 Rubio

Ortg:
113 Lawson
111 Conley
109 Dragic
105 Walker
102 Bledsoe
99 Rubio
99 Holiday

Dragic seems to be either 3rd or 4th best on every list. Food for thought.

17.1 PER; .554 TS%; 5.9 TRB%; 31.4 AST%; 15.4 TOV%; 115 Ortg; .152 WS/48

What about this mystery player then?

sunsfan88
12-14-2013, 09:17 PM
Other than Paul, Parker and Westbrook, I'm not sure there's a PG in the West that's hands down playing better than Dragic. Maybe Curry but that's it.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2013, 09:50 PM
Other than Paul, Parker and Westbrook, I'm not sure there's a PG in the West that's hands down playing better than Dragic. Maybe Curry but that's it.

so far this year, the 3 you mentioned, and Lillard are all better. But Dragic has played well, for sure. I don't think he sustains this level of play however.

lukass
12-14-2013, 10:00 PM
I love Scorin Goran! He isn't afraid to take it to the hole and is in attack mode constantly. Might be a top 3 finisher in the league. He can turn nothing into something with ease, you cant really appreciate him unless you watch him regularly

sunsfan88
01-10-2014, 06:10 PM
He's having an excellent year, I would say he's had an all-star caliber season. I love that backcourt combo of him and Bledsoe.

Absolutely. With CP3, Kobe and Westbrook out, I think Dragic absolutely deserves to be an All Star this year. Even the Jon Barry said it on ESPN during the Suns-TWolves game, "The Suns deserve to have at least one player in the All Star game" and he's absolutely right. And the best player for those Suns has been Dragic.

Curry, Lillard, Dragic and Harden should be the top 4 guards for the West. If they end up having 5 guards, then Parker joins the party too.

Dragic has actually played SG for much of the season anyway and easily the 2nd best SG in the West.

koreancabbage
01-10-2014, 06:43 PM
Dragic is going to go beast mode.

around the numbers Lowry is averaging right now. 20ppg-9apg-4rpg

sunsfan88
01-10-2014, 07:01 PM
Dragic is going to go beast mode.

around the numbers Lowry is averaging right now. 20ppg-9apg-4rpg

Lowry is a beast too, he's the underrated version of Eric Bledsoe.

I would give Dragic the nod over Lowry though cause Dragic's doing it on a winning team and cause I'm a Suns fan ;)

zn23
01-10-2014, 07:58 PM
I don't know why but Dragic has all-star snub written all over him. He definitely deserves to be on the team, but I could see them putting some undeserving players like Klay Thompson, Kobe Bryant, Russell Westbrook, Jeremy Lin or Ricky Rubio over him.

sunsfan88
01-11-2014, 12:31 AM
I don't know why but Dragic has all-star snub written all over him. He definitely deserves to be on the team, but I could see them putting some undeserving players like Klay Thompson, Kobe Bryant, Russell Westbrook, Jeremy Lin or Ricky Rubio over him.
If Jeremy Lin or Ricky Rubio make it over Dragic, this will be me:

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA2LzEyLzI4L1RvbUhpZGRsZXN0LjMxZmQwLmdpZg pwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/c07bb55b/6dc/Tom-Hiddleston.gif

Hawkeye15
01-11-2014, 12:43 AM
not reading through all this, but I know I said I would take Rubio over Dragic going forward before the season.

I have changed my mind.

ByShine
01-11-2014, 12:49 AM
i'd still take holiday over dragic though

Duncan = Donkey
01-11-2014, 03:49 AM
I don't know why but Dragic has all-star snub written all over him. He definitely deserves to be on the team, but I could see them putting some undeserving players like Klay Thompson, Kobe Bryant, Russell Westbrook, Jeremy Lin or Ricky Rubio over him.

Yeah I agree, Id be very dissapointed if that happens, Dragic is having a better season than all of those guys

Duncan = Donkey
01-11-2014, 03:50 AM
i'd still take holiday over dragic though

For a rebuilding team id agree, but for a team that wants to win now id take Dragic

sunsfan88
02-02-2014, 06:11 AM
The Slovenian guard is having a career-best year with averaging 19.7 points while shooting an efficient 49.9 percent from the floor, and dishing out 6.1 assists. To put that into perspective, both Dragic and four-time MVP Lebron James are the only players in the league to average at least 19 points and 6 assists while shooting 49 percent.

What's even more impressive is that fellow guard Eric Bledsoe — who along with Dragic is the best player on the Suns— went down with an injury in late December, and the Suns have still managed to remain in the playoff race in the tough Western Conference. And Dragic has certainly been an integral reason why Phoenix has managed to continue their phenomenal success.

Although players such as DeMarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Tim Duncan and Mike Conley would all be excellent choices to replace Bryant in the All-Star game, Dragic is the smarter choice.

First, both Davis and Cousins' teams are out of playoff contention and well below .500. While both big men are posting very impressive numbers, they are not winning games.

Furthermore, Dragic arguably does not have a very talented squad — minus the injured Bledsoe— but the Suns are playing excellent basketball because of hard work, terrific coaching and smart play. After all, guys like Gerald Green, the Morris twins and Miles Plumlee are the Suns' supporting cast.

So, while Cousins and Davis are quickly becoming very elite big men, they are not carrying their teams to playoff contention, whereas Dragic is.

Moreover, Duncan —who is debatably the second greatest player of his generation after the Black Mamba — has the San Antonio Spurs tied with second in the Western Conference, but the Hall of Fame big man does not have the numbers that Dragic possess.

Lastly, though Conley has carried the Memphis Grizzlies back into the playoff hunt with a 26-20 record, Dragic's team still has a better record, and the Suns' point guard is having a more impressive season.

While NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, will determine Bryant's replacement for the All-Star game, Dragic is certainly the most logical choice to replace Vino come February 16th.

http://www.sportsmedia101.com/losangeleslakers/2014/02/01/who-should-replace-injured-kobe-bryant-on-western-conference-all-star-squad/
^That is from a Lakers site by the way, NOT a Suns or any Phoenix or Arizona related site.

Aapox
02-02-2014, 12:58 PM
I love me some Dragic. He is such a solid player.

sunsfan88
02-03-2014, 01:53 AM
I love me some Dragic. He is such a solid player.

He's developed into a top 7 PG easily imo.

Curry, CP3, Rose, Westbrook, Wall and Parker are about the only ones that are actually better than the Dragon now.

Chronz
02-03-2014, 02:41 AM
^That is from a Lakers site by the way, NOT a Suns or any Phoenix or Arizona related site.

So they want us to look at numbers over a player who wins more, but ask us to look at wins when a superior productive player is in contention?

sunsfan88
02-03-2014, 06:07 PM
About the only thing that didn't go right for Phoenix Suns guard Goran Dragic last week was his exclusion from the Western Conference All-Star team.

Dragic was named the Western Conference's Player of the Week for Jan. 27-Feb.2 after he averaged 26.8 points, 6.0 assists and 4.0 rebounds in leading the Suns to four wins. He shot a blistering 63.9 percent from the field, including 69.2 percent from three-point range.

Dragic tied a career-long streak with four straight games with 20 or more points.

Still not All Star worthy apparently lmao suck it NBA coaches!

Bishnoff
02-03-2014, 06:58 PM
He's developed into a top 7 PG easily imo.

Curry, CP3, Rose, Westbrook, Wall and Parker are about the only ones that are actually better than the Dragon now.

PG is his secondary position now. He's only playing PG again with Bledsoe out. In fact, Hornacek continues to play Dragic with Ish to give Dragic time off the ball.

Because Dragic is better suited to SG, we should rank him against the league's SGs, not PGs.

nycericanguy
02-03-2014, 07:01 PM
He's been on an amazing run, you can really make a case for Dragic as MVP this year. He's led a team of nobodies to a 62% winning percentage out west so far. I mean really, who's the number 2 guy there? Gerald Green?

sunsfan88
02-03-2014, 07:12 PM
PG is his secondary position now. He's only playing PG again with Bledsoe out. In fact, Hornacek continues to play Dragic with Ish to give Dragic time off the ball.

Because Dragic is better suited to SG, we should rank him against the league's SGs, not PGs.

Right now he's playing PG though.

But yea among SGs, he's easily top 3. Harden, Wade, and then its Dragic.

tr3ymill3r
02-03-2014, 07:13 PM
Chandler Parsons says, "What's up?"

sunsfan88
02-03-2014, 07:17 PM
Four players averaged 22-plus points, 6-plus assists and 4-plus rebounds in January. Only one of those four is not an All-Star. Kevin Durant, Steph Curry and James Harden will all be in New Orleans. Goran Dragic will not. More fodder to suggest that the star of your Desert Cinderellas got full-on snubbed.

http://espn.go.com/nba/powerrankings/_/year/2014/week/14

NBA_Starter
02-03-2014, 08:53 PM
He's a monster for sure, he should get more love.

Bishnoff
02-03-2014, 09:02 PM
He's a monster for sure, he should get more love.

I agree; the Suns should trade for Love :p

Hawkeye15
02-04-2014, 04:33 AM
probably the 2nd best player not named to the all star game. Having a better peak than I would have imagined watching him at first in Houston.

PurpleLynch
02-04-2014, 07:52 AM
Him and Lowry are too much underrated.They both deserve the ASG. And they are both players that you like to see playing. Fun and hustling all-around playstyle.

sunsfan88
02-05-2014, 05:15 AM
probably the 2nd best player not named to the all star game. Having a better peak than I would have imagined watching him at first in Houston.

Honestly, I thought the numbers he put up in Houston were a fluke. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that he improved that much since getting banished and traded out from PHX.

nycericanguy
02-05-2014, 11:32 AM
am i crazy to think he's an MVP candidate this year?

KnicksorBust
02-05-2014, 02:42 PM
am i crazy to think he's an MVP candidate this year?

Depends. If you are trying to argue that he is having one of the 10 best seasons and therefore is a "candidate" ... then you are mildly insane. If you are trying to argue he is in the convo with Lebron or Durant then it is safe to assume you already have padded walls and your asylum just got the internet.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2014, 02:51 PM
Honestly, I thought the numbers he put up in Houston were a fluke. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that he improved that much since getting banished and traded out from PHX.

I didn't think they were a fluke, I just saw an average to above average starting guard moving forward. I am still surprised by his numbers, it goes to show how good a job Jeff is doing with those guys.

nycericanguy
02-05-2014, 03:08 PM
Depends. If you are trying to argue that he is having one of the 10 best seasons and therefore is a "candidate" ... then you are mildly insane. If you are trying to argue he is in the convo with Lebron or Durant then it is safe to assume you already have padded walls and your asylum just got the internet.

i don't think he's the MVP, but he's a candidate.

Honestly, name me 5 guys you'd put above him for MVP?

I'd say

LBJ
Durant

after that, it gets a little tricky. I'd put PG above him, though PG has had alot of help this year, he's still above him.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2014, 04:46 PM
i don't think he's the MVP, but he's a candidate.

Honestly, name me 5 guys you'd put above him for MVP?

I'd say

LBJ
Durant

after that, it gets a little tricky. I'd put PG above him, though PG has had alot of help this year, he's still above him.

Paul
George
Love
LMA
Parker
Curry
Griffin
Nowitzki

all above him. Davis would be too if his team wasn't bad.

Dragic is having a great year, but lets not act like he isn't getting support on that roster.

nycericanguy
02-05-2014, 04:58 PM
Paul
George
Love
LMA
Parker
Curry
Griffin
Nowitzki

all above him. Davis would be too if his team wasn't bad.

Dragic is having a great year, but lets not act like he isn't getting support on that roster.

after PG, LBJ & Durant it's all debateable to me.

LMA is basically a shot per point guy, never been too impressed with a big man that shoots .47% and doesn't shoot 3's. i think he's getting way too much credit for that team, Lillard is a stud, Batum, Matthews... Mo... Robin... that's a very good all around team. I'm not even sure LMA is the MVP of his own TEAM.

Love's team has been below .500 pretty much all year...

Parker...debateable... Dragic's numbers are better and he has much less help.

Griffin, again, debateable.

Curry... good one there, but consider PHO has a better record than GSW and Curry has an immensely more talented roster.

Dirk... again, could go either way.

I think he's a top 5 MVP candidate so far.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2014, 05:00 PM
after PG, LBJ & Durant it's all debateable to me.

LMA is basically a shot per point guy, never been too impressed with a big man that shoots .47% and doesn't shoot 3's. i think he's getting way too much credit for that team, Lillard is a stud, Batum, Matthews... Mo... Robin... that's a very good all around team. I'm not even sure LMA is the MVP of his own TEAM.

Love's team has been below .500 pretty much all year...

Parker...debateable... Dragic's numbers are better and he has much less help.

Griffin, again, debateable.

Curry... good one there, but consider GSW has the same record as PHO and Curry has an immensely more talented roster.

Dirk... again, could go either way.

I think he's a top 5 MVP candidate so far.

if we are talking legit MVP candidates, they must be on teams that are elite. So the list is short anyways. Dragic isn't on it.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2014, 05:01 PM
and I will bet every player I listed has more MVP votes than Dragic at the end of the year. There are reasons he was left off the all star team. A couple are b.s., but he doesn't get the MVP respect at all.

sunsfan88
02-05-2014, 05:18 PM
Dragic is on the MVP list on NBA.com

He has the worst supporting cast out of other candidates.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2014, 05:42 PM
Dragic is on the MVP list on NBA.com

He has the worst supporting cast out of other candidates.

it's a subjective ranking by a site. So what?

I doubt he gets more votes than anyone I listed

nycericanguy
02-05-2014, 06:05 PM
if we are talking legit MVP candidates, they must be on teams that are elite. So the list is short anyways. Dragic isn't on it.

i don't necessarily agree with that. No way Dragic wins it anyway ahead of the big 3, but if he leads that PHO team to say 47 wins out west with that roster, that's a great achievement.

I think you have to be on a very good team and a winning team, but I wouldn't say you have to be on one of the few "elite" teams to win.

nycericanguy
02-05-2014, 06:05 PM
Dragic is on the MVP list on NBA.com

He has the worst supporting cast out of other candidates.

by far... I mean Bledsoe was good, but he's missed more than half the year and PHO hasn't missed a beat.

sunsfan88
02-05-2014, 06:09 PM
it's a subjective ranking by a site. So what?

I doubt he gets more votes than anyone I listed

I don't think anyone you listed except for George will even get any MVP votes. I don't think Dragic will either.

Dragic doesn't have a legitimate chance to win MVP but he's playing at a top 10 level this year imo so he warrants to be in the conversation.

Dirk, Love, Parker and Griffin aren't higher than Dragic on the list. Love, as he always has in the NBA, is stat padding on a mediocre team. When the game is actually within reach and they need someone to score, the dude is invisible. Dirk? He's doing the same thing Dragic is in terms of leading a team nobody expected to be good into playoffs or playoff contention but again, Dragic's doing it much better. Parker is putting up the same numbers as Dragic but Dragic's doing more with less. Griffin is the closest one because he's actually played well even without CP3 but I'll still take Goran's play this year over him cause I think Griffin still has the better cast (even w/o CP3) than Dragic.

And Davis like I said earlier, is putting up great numbers on a horrible team. That's the same as being the hottest girl in a room of ugly girls. It doesn't count. Is it Davis fault that their so bad? No but he can't get too much credit when your teams that bad.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2014, 06:14 PM
i don't necessarily agree with that. No way Dragic wins it anyway ahead of the big 3, but if he leads that PHO team to say 47 wins out west with that roster, that's a great achievement.

I think you have to be on a very good team and a winning team, but I wouldn't say you have to be on one of the few "elite" teams to win.

find me an MVP in the last 20 years that wasn't on an elite regular season team. I don't make the rules, I am just the messenger on this one.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2014, 06:17 PM
I don't think anyone you listed except for George will even get any MVP votes. I don't think Dragic will either.

Dragic doesn't have a legitimate chance to win MVP but he's playing at a top 10 level this year imo so he warrants to be in the conversation.

Dirk, Love, Parker and Griffin aren't higher than Dragic on the list. Love, as he always has in the NBA, is stat padding on a mediocre team. When the game is actually within reach and they need someone to score, the dude is invisible. Dirk? He's doing the same thing Dragic is in terms of leading a team nobody expected to be good into playoffs or playoff contention but again, Dragic's doing it much better. Parker is putting up the same numbers as Dragic but Dragic's doing more with less. Griffin is the closest one because he's actually played well even without CP3 but I'll still take Goran's play this year over him cause I think Griffin still has the better cast (even w/o CP3) than Dragic.

And Davis like I said earlier, is putting up great numbers on a horrible team. That's the same as being the hottest girl in a room of ugly girls. It doesn't count. Is it Davis fault that their so bad? No but he can't get too much credit when your teams that bad.

Love finished 6th in MVP voting 2 years ago. Dragic might actually get some late votes and sneak on the list, but what does that mean?

Look, you are pushing really hard for your guy, I get that. I used to do the same until I realized my voice isn't going to change anything in that regard. But the Suns are not just winning because Dragic's game has risen. Their whole team is playing better than anyone expected, literally down to the man. Just like Portland.

sunsfan88
02-07-2014, 02:45 AM
Love finished 6th in MVP voting 2 years ago. Dragic might actually get some late votes and sneak on the list, but what does that mean?

Look, you are pushing really hard for your guy, I get that. I used to do the same until I realized my voice isn't going to change anything in that regard. But the Suns are not just winning because Dragic's game has risen. Their whole team is playing better than anyone expected, literally down to the man. Just like Portland.
I'm not pushing for Dragic to be MVP. He isn't even a top 5 PG so I am well aware that he won't sniff actually winning MVP.

Hell he ain't even an All Star.

But I have seen the lists that people have and Dragic belongs on it. If Lillard is on the list or the convo then Dragic absolutely should be on it as well.

JWorthy42
02-07-2014, 03:47 AM
Dragic is really salty about not making the All-Star team, lol. All he does is retweet tweets which mention how he deserves to be in the game.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2014, 03:52 AM
I'm not pushing for Dragic to be MVP. He isn't even a top 5 PG so I am well aware that he won't sniff actually winning MVP.

Hell he ain't even an All Star.

But I have seen the lists that people have and Dragic belongs on it. If Lillard is on the list or the convo then Dragic absolutely should be on it as well.

fair enough

Duncan = Donkey
02-07-2014, 06:25 AM
Dragic is really salty about not making the All-Star team, lol. All he does is retweet tweets which mention how he deserves to be in the game.

lol, yeah i seen that.

thenaj17
02-07-2014, 09:08 AM
I don't think anyone you listed except for George will even get any MVP votes. I don't think Dragic will either.

Dragic doesn't have a legitimate chance to win MVP but he's playing at a top 10 level this year imo so he warrants to be in the conversation.

Dirk, Love, Parker and Griffin aren't higher than Dragic on the list. Love, as he always has in the NBA, is stat padding on a mediocre team. When the game is actually within reach and they need someone to score, the dude is invisible. Dirk? He's doing the same thing Dragic is in terms of leading a team nobody expected to be good into playoffs or playoff contention but again, Dragic's doing it much better. Parker is putting up the same numbers as Dragic but Dragic's doing more with less. Griffin is the closest one because he's actually played well even without CP3 but I'll still take Goran's play this year over him cause I think Griffin still has the better cast (even w/o CP3) than Dragic.

And Davis like I said earlier, is putting up great numbers on a horrible team. That's the same as being the hottest girl in a room of ugly girls. It doesn't count. Is it Davis fault that their so bad? No but he can't get too much credit when your teams that bad.

This is a very good example of why you're overrating Dragic. You're using the fact Parker has more help but has the same numbers (roughly). Yet in reality, Parker is getting those numbers despite the workload being shared more and TP not having to do as much. Not a chance anybody in their right mind would take Dragic ahead of Parker.

As a Laker fan, Kendall Marshall and Steve Blake are perfect examples of system/situation. Neither are legit starting PG's despite the numbers being put up this season. Ryan f'kin Kelly scored 26 the other day because somebody has to put up points!

D-Leethal
02-07-2014, 11:10 AM
find me an MVP in the last 20 years that wasn't on an elite regular season team. I don't make the rules, I am just the messenger on this one.

Agreed. Precedent dictates these awards and recent precedent says you gotta be on one of the 3 best teams in the NBA.

nycericanguy
02-07-2014, 11:27 AM
This is a very good example of why you're overrating Dragic. You're using the fact Parker has more help but has the same numbers (roughly). Yet in reality, Parker is getting those numbers despite the workload being shared more and TP not having to do as much. Not a chance anybody in their right mind would take Dragic ahead of Parker.

As a Laker fan, Kendall Marshall and Steve Blake are perfect examples of system/situation. Neither are legit starting PG's despite the numbers being put up this season. Ryan f'kin Kelly scored 26 the other day because somebody has to put up points!

that's a very extreme example, obviously he doesn't do that on a regular basis.

Parker's efficiency is obviously helped greatly playing on a great team, Dragic has very little help so the fact that he's shooting 51% and 40% from 3 is pretty amazing to me. Guys that carry the load and have little help usually shoot lower %'s.

I would take Parker over Dragic based on experience and pedigree, but Dragic is having the more impressive season.

If you took away the name and said player A is leading the freakin SUNS, without Bledsoe mind you, to a 29-19 season averaging 20/6/4 and shooting 51/40/78, you'd say that was a top 5 NBA player. Dragic just doesn't have the name yet.

For comp, Lilliard is putting up just about 20./6/4, except he's shooting 41%... and he's on a team that has a TON more help which is supposed to help efficiency greatly.

Drummond#1
02-09-2014, 01:45 AM
He just smoke checked the dubbs star studded backcourt.

Duncan = Donkey
02-09-2014, 01:45 AM
Best SG in the league.

sunsfan88
02-09-2014, 01:54 AM
Dragic with 100% eFG, 97.7% TS tonight

Drummond#1
02-09-2014, 01:55 AM
He is the best player on the #6 seed in the West. The Suns should have representation. He's been more valuable to his team than Harden to the Rockets. Anthony Davis is leading a lottery team. And Chris Paul has missed 20 games this season.

The latter is the worst since he's deciding to crawl back into playing two games before the all star break. **** CP3. If he had pride like mamba he would have given up his spot to the more deserving player. He's just seeing $$$. I hope the Clips get eliminated first round 0-4.

Duncan = Donkey
02-09-2014, 01:57 AM
how iw the best SG in the NBA this year not an all star, its a disgrace

Drummond#1
02-09-2014, 02:01 AM
The Clippers and Rockets are both 3.5 games ahead and they each have two players. I'm sorry but take your pick Harden, Howard, Davis or CP3 should be sitting this out.

COOLbeans
02-09-2014, 02:19 AM
He's had a good year, probably better than Harden

Duncan = Donkey
02-09-2014, 02:21 AM
He's had a good year, probably better than Harden

he has had better year than any SG in the league. Why are people so afraid to say it, is it because he is white lol.

Dragic has been the best the SG in the NBA this year.

RipCity32
02-09-2014, 02:34 AM
If you could only keep one Who would you choose, Bledsoe or Dragic?

Duncan = Donkey
02-09-2014, 02:39 AM
If you could only keep one Who would you choose, Bledsoe or Dragic?

Dragic, easily.

king4day
02-09-2014, 04:31 AM
It's going to be very disappointing not having Dragic in the ASG. NBA wants players that will make the game exciting and he's one of them. If NBA teams are allowed 15 players, why don't all star teams?

zn23
02-09-2014, 04:41 AM
I think Dragic is going to use this snub as some sort of motivation. He had a monster game tonight going 30 and 10.

Duncan = Donkey
02-09-2014, 04:56 AM
He's had a good year, probably better than Harden

Better than Harden.

Dragic - 34.5 MPG / 20.4 PPG / 6.1 *** / 3.6 REB / 51 FG% / 41 3PT% / 78 FT% / .606 TS%/ .556 eFG% / 22.83 PER / WS-48- .198 / WS 6.5

Harden - 38.5 MPG / 23.7 PPG / 5.3 *** / 4.7 REB / 45 FG% / 32 3PT% / 85 FT% / .599 TS% / .510 eFG% / 21.08 PER / WS-48- .184 / WS 6.2

As you can see Dragic havin a better season, its just that Harden is a name so he gets recognition.

Goose17
02-09-2014, 05:06 PM
He's very underrated and I love his style of play, a lot of fun to watch... when he isn't destroying your team.

HeatBeat
03-01-2014, 02:30 AM
Just seen him drop 40, He is incredible and scores his points so efficiently. Wish we could swap Wade for him.

sunsfan88
03-01-2014, 03:14 AM
NBA Scouts: Goran Dragic is the most underrated player in the NBA

Western conference scout: "I think he can do what he's done this year for the next four or five years. We all saw Dragic play in Europe, and he couldn't make a shot over there. He was fast. He can run, he can jump, he's fast-twitch. And he's made himself into a shooter.

"You go underneath the pick and he's going to make shots. He's really good. It's a credit to his work ethic. He's a little bigger than you think he is. He's thick and he's strong. To have a team with no other stars that lost Eric Bledsoe to injury be in the playoff hunt in the West? He's a damn good player."

Eastern conference scout: "He's got it all. There's nothing he doesn't do well. If there's anything, it's that he may not have the greatest speed. But with the ball in his hands, he's fast, and he gets by people. He's got a great first step and he's quick as hell when it comes to that.

"He can make open shots, he's big, he's got skill and he can finish. I love size. I don't like small guards. I think a big point guard is an advantage. I've seen enough of him to know that if I was a GM and I needed a point guard, I'd do whatever it takes to get him. If I was looking for a point guard, he'd be right at the top of the list. I think he's the real deal."



http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10523591/nba-ricky-rubio-overrated-goran-dragic-underrated-according-scouts?src=mobile

Heediot
03-01-2014, 07:09 AM
He is the best player on the #6 seed in the West. The Suns should have representation. He's been more valuable to his team than Harden to the Rockets. Anthony Davis is leading a lottery team. And Chris Paul has missed 20 games this season.

The latter is the worst since he's deciding to crawl back into playing two games before the all star break. **** CP3. If he had pride like mamba he would have given up his spot to the more deserving player. He's just seeing $$$. I hope the Clips get eliminated first round 0-4.

Cp3 thought he owed it to the fans of New Orleans to participate in the ASG. He still has youth charities in that city. There is more to it then you were presuming.

mdm692
03-01-2014, 01:42 PM
Cp3 thought he owed it to the fans of New Orleans to participate in the ASG. He still has youth charities in that city. There is more to it then you were presuming.

I don't think they care much anymore considering they have AD lol. That's just greed kicking in for him.

ThuglifeJ
03-01-2014, 01:53 PM
>Harden

sunsfan88
03-01-2014, 02:28 PM
Cp3 thought he owed it to the fans of New Orleans to participate in the ASG. He still has youth charities in that city. There is more to it then you were presuming.

Yea but look at Tony Parker though.

He's a complete jack***. He plays in the ASG for barely any mins despite having injuries and then he's out indefinitely right after the ASG.

Duncan = Donkey
03-01-2014, 08:59 PM
His offense is so efficient, just crazy. 51% FG, 42% 3PT, 62% TS, 57% eFG and 4th in the league in offensive win shares. Needs to improve his FT shooting though.

NBA_Starter
03-02-2014, 10:17 PM
Not a bad bargain at all from where he was drafted, he is a Beast.

Hawkeye15
03-03-2014, 01:42 AM
yeah, he is the most underrated player this season most likely.

mrblisterdundee
03-03-2014, 02:02 AM
I'm a Blazers fan who thought Goran Dragic should have made the All-Star game over Damian Lillard. Phoenix doesn't have nearly the talent level of the Blazers; one of their two best players has been injured most of the season; and they're right in the thick of a playoff berth.
Dragic has to get some credit as the lone star on a very cohesive group. Not to mention that on a per-minute basis, he scores slightly more, assists more and grabs twice as many steals as Lillard.

Kushed
03-03-2014, 04:11 AM
damian lillard massively ovvvverrated

sunsfan88
03-07-2014, 02:30 AM
Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 2h

Fantastic Suns win. My 1st-team All-NBA ballot right now: Durant + Lebron (F), Noah (C), Curry + Dragic (G). 6 weeks to go.
That's accurate.

xxcubs22xx
03-07-2014, 05:20 AM
Goran Dragic's game reminds me a lot of Tony Parker's game. Just more exciting at this point.

Watching him score is fascinating

sunsfan88
03-22-2014, 03:17 AM
Dragic is averaging a career-high 20.4 points on career highs of 51 percent shooting and nearly 42 percent on 3-pointers. Only Dragic and Kevin Durant have 50/40 shooting averages (.549 and .403 for Durant)

John Walls Era
03-22-2014, 03:25 AM
Goran Dragic's game reminds me a lot of Tony Parker's game. Just more exciting at this point.

Watching him score is fascinating

id let parker shoot, i wouldn't let dragic. parker is probably better in the paint, but dragic is lethal from 3.

Duncan = Donkey
03-22-2014, 04:15 AM
id let parker shoot, i wouldn't let dragic. parker is probably better in the paint, but dragic is lethal from 3.

Yeah thats pretty accurate. Dragic's 3 ball has been money for the last 3 months, whenever he shoots it, I just expect it to go in, lol.

January - 46% 3PT
February - 49% 3PT
March - 45% 3PT

HeatBeat
03-22-2014, 04:40 AM
He is a top 3 PG and SG this year.

sunsfan88
03-22-2014, 04:47 AM
Yeah thats pretty accurate. Dragic's 3 ball has been money for the last 3 months, whenever he shoots it, I just expect it to go in, lol.

January - 46% 3PT
February - 49% 3PT
March - 45% 3PT
What's weird is that he's good from mid range and 3s and yet he can't make a FT to save his life lol.