PDA

View Full Version : Waiver Deadline (8/31/13) Trade Deadline: (Rumors, and talk)



GrkGawdofWalkz
08-09-2013, 07:08 PM
I just thought it be good to put this up. Rios is off to Texas for basically change. Boston definitely has to look at arms depending on availability.

-Lavigne43-
08-09-2013, 07:53 PM
No one useful is going to be available to us unless they have a huge contract.

Crucis
08-09-2013, 08:06 PM
I just thought it be good to put this up. Rios is off to Texas for basically change. Boston definitely has to look at arms depending on availability.

I'm not quite sure that I'd say that Texas picked up Rios for "basically change". They did have to pick up his entire contract (which may be something like about $12-13M for next year and an option for the following year at a similar rate), minus $1M (which simply covered 2 $500K raises, if he got traded). The Rangers basically handed the Chisox a minor prospect to take a big contract off their hands which just happens to fill the void left by Nelson Cruz who was suspended for the rest of the season and was a free agent after the season. The Rangers just filled the RF for the rest of this season, next season, and perhaps the following season. Sweet deal for Texas.

I'm not sure how many similar situations are floating around that could line up as well for the Red Sox.

Crucis
08-09-2013, 08:08 PM
No one useful is going to be available to us unless they have a huge contract.


And it's not like there are all that many spots on the Sox roster where they need such an upgrade beyond 3B. And even then, if the Sox would get off the dime and call up Xander already, even that spot might be covered.

GrkGawdofWalkz
08-09-2013, 09:38 PM
I'm not quite sure that I'd say that Texas picked up Rios for "basically change". They did have to pick up his entire contract (which may be something like about $12-13M for next year and an option for the following year at a similar rate), minus $1M (which simply covered 2 $500K raises, if he got traded). The Rangers basically handed the Chisox a minor prospect to take a big contract off their hands which just happens to fill the void left by Nelson Cruz who was suspended for the rest of the season and was a free agent after the season. The Rangers just filled the RF for the rest of this season, next season, and perhaps the following season. Sweet deal for Texas.

I'm not sure how many similar situations are floating around that could line up as well for the Red Sox.

The line for Leury Garcia in the majors: The 22-year-old Garcia is hitting just .192/.236/.231 in 57 plate appearances this season. At AAA: .264/.314/.409. Not much of a difference. Depending on the source, he's anywhere from a borderline top 10 in their organization. I call that chump change for a guy with 15 homers and 26 SB, who's a better glove in RF.

GrkGawdofWalkz
08-09-2013, 09:39 PM
Cruz is likely not going to be retained unless he signs a one year tender aggreement. So it can in essence recap the value of a prospect. I find it a win win situation for Texas. Outside of power Rios is a valuable player for them.

Crucis
08-09-2013, 09:51 PM
The line for Leury Garcia in the majors: The 22-year-old Garcia is hitting just .192/.236/.231 in 57 plate appearances this season. At AAA: .264/.314/.409. Not much of a difference. Depending on the source, he's anywhere from a borderline top 10 in their organization. I call that chump change for a guy with 15 homers and 26 SB, who's a better glove in RF.

You're overlooking the value (to Chicago) of offloading an expensive player from their payroll.

Though frankly, the Chisox might have been better off to just let the Rangers take Rios on waivers and save themselves the $1M. The prospect doesn't seem worth the $1M they had to give the Rangers.

Wouldn't that have been ironic, given that the White Sox got Rios the same way, off waivers from the Blue Jays...

AI
08-09-2013, 09:55 PM
You're overlooking the value (to Chicago) of offloading an expensive player from their payroll.

Personally, I think Chicago missed a golden opportunity at the deadline. Had they been willing to absorb a small piece of his contract and ship him to the Pirates, they could of got a nice package from PIT.

They were seriously desperate for a bat.

GrkGawdofWalkz
08-09-2013, 09:59 PM
You're overlooking the value (to Chicago) of offloading an expensive player from their payroll.

Though frankly, the Chisox might have been better off to just let the Rangers take Rios on waivers and save themselves the $1M. The prospect doesn't seem worth the $1M they had to give the Rangers.

Wouldn't that have been ironic, given that the White Sox got Rios the same way, off waivers from the Blue Jays...

Again, looking at both sides, Rios signed through next year is slightly paid that over a qualifying offer to Cruz. He fields better, has more range on his throwing and has some power/speed. I look at it easily as a win-win for a team rebuilding and a team maintaining its competitveness while going for the division/playoffs. Offloading contracts can only be viewed as so much.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 02:59 PM
Personally, I think Chicago missed a golden opportunity at the deadline. Had they been willing to absorb a small piece of his contract and ship him to the Pirates, they could of got a nice package from PIT.

They were seriously desperate for a bat.

You could be correct, AI. The Chisox may have gotten greedy and lost out on a good chance to get something more than they got from the Rangers. Of course, maybe the Chisox cared about saving the money more than getting mediocre prospects in return, though if that were truly the case, as I said before, they might have been better off to just let the Rangers get stuck with Rios, and the Chisox would have saved another $1M.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 03:08 PM
Again, looking at both sides, Rios signed through next year is slightly paid that over a qualifying offer to Cruz. He fields better, has more range on his throwing and has some power/speed. I look at it easily as a win-win for a team rebuilding and a team maintaining its competitveness while going for the division/playoffs. Offloading contracts can only be viewed as so much.

A. Of course Texas did very well. The transaction didn't end up costing them much more than if they'd have signed Rios as a free agent for the rest of the season plus next year and the option on the following year for what's already in his deal. And all they did was give up the supposed 20th best prospect in their system, which is arguably no worse than losing a draft pick for a real Free Agent signing.


B. Offloading contracts. I strongly disagree. The value of offloading expensive contracts can be huge. Just look at last year's Sox-Dodgers deal. Sure, the Sox got some nice prospects back, but the primary benefit was in offloading Crawford's and Beckett's contracts. (I leave out Agon's contract because he's a player that the Sox would have been happy to keep.)

Was Rois a player that was going to put $~12M worth of fannies in the seats next year for the Chisox? Probably not. Then in that case, it might have been well worth getting his contract off their books in this way to save the money, money that they can now use in potentially more productive ways.

Lackeyfan41
08-10-2013, 04:26 PM
We really need a right handed BP arm, but doesn't seem much will go through waivers.

RedSoxtober
08-10-2013, 04:46 PM
B. Offloading contracts. I strongly disagree. The value of offloading expensive contracts can be huge. Just look at last year's Sox-Dodgers deal. Sure, the Sox got some nice prospects back, but the primary benefit was in offloading Crawford's and Beckett's contracts. (I leave out Agon's contract because he's a player that the Sox would have been happy to keep.)

Was Rois a player that was going to put $~12M worth of fannies in the seats next year for the Chisox? Probably not. Then in that case, it might have been well worth getting his contract off their books in this way to save the money, money that they can now use in potentially more productive ways.

I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Sure, saving on an expensive contract CAN help but it's more important if the team (a) is close to luxury tax and/or its revenue constraints and (b) can capitalize on an area of need in the upcoming FA period. That's really the best that can be said of a $12M/1yr savings.

I think the Sox-Dodgers deal HAS to be considered a truly unique case. The Sox saved almost of $60M/yr for the first TWO years following the deal and another $43M/yr for the next three seasons. To put that in perspective, three entire MLB player payrolls are lower than the SAVINGS in the first two years and two of those teams would be covered by the next three. Saving $12M/yr COULD help you improve; saving $45M-60M alters the future of a franchise.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 05:23 PM
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Sure, saving on an expensive contract CAN help but it's more important if the team (a) is close to luxury tax and/or its revenue constraints and (b) can capitalize on an area of need in the upcoming FA period. That's really the best that can be said of a $12M/1yr savings.

I think the Sox-Dodgers deal HAS to be considered a truly unique case. The Sox saved almost of $60M/yr for the first TWO years following the deal and another $43M/yr for the next three seasons. To put that in perspective, three entire MLB player payrolls are lower than the SAVINGS in the first two years and two of those teams would be covered by the next three. Saving $12M/yr COULD help you improve; saving $45M-60M alters the future of a franchise.


Soxtober, I hesitate to include the savings from Agon's contract because I think that he would have continued to earn his money. To me, the real savings was strictly from offloading CC adn Beckett.

ruckus16969
08-10-2013, 09:08 PM
How about taking on Dunns contract. I know the idea sounds ridiculous at first but after thinking it through. I'm not so against it. He is hitting something like .320 sense the TD and he could provide a lil pop in the middle of this line-up. let him split time with Napoli and Gomes and play a lil 1st and OF. And then LF him if Poppi needs a day off. If Poppi was to get hurt he can DH. Probably get him for next to nothing cause of the money he is owed. I think around 20m left through next year.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 09:25 PM
How about taking on Dunns contract. I know the idea sounds ridiculous at first but after thinking it through. I'm not so against it. He is hitting something like .320 sense the TD and he could provide a lil pop in the middle of this line-up. let him split time with Napoli and Gomes and play a lil 1st and OF. And then LF him if Poppi needs a day off. If Poppi was to get hurt he can DH. Probably get him for next to nothing cause of the money he is owed. I think around 20m left through next year.

In Fenway? I don't think so. On a team with a more LH pull hitter friendly park, maybe.

RedSoxtober
08-12-2013, 09:25 AM
Soxtober, I hesitate to include the savings from Agon's contract because I think that he would have continued to earn his money. To me, the real savings was strictly from offloading CC adn Beckett.

I understand what you're saying, however, once the trade has been made all the salaries that were moved are now savings. It may not be a "salary dump" per se, but the dollars traded are saved off of payroll and may be applied to other contracts.

BGeer091
08-12-2013, 10:23 AM
Im a little stuck on this... A few of my friends believe that Mauer will be available again. .. I don't know if I would claim him. Whats your thoughts?

The Allen
08-12-2013, 10:29 AM
Twins said earlier this month they are not putting him on waivers, but then again they always could change their mind.

RedSoxtober
08-12-2013, 11:59 AM
Im a little stuck on this... A few of my friends believe that Mauer will be available again. .. I don't know if I would claim him. Whats your thoughts?

He can still hit and I think a more permanent move to 1B (or DH after Ortiz) might prolong his career. I doubt he "earns" $23M/yr from here on out though.

Ultimately I think all that is irrelevant. Mauer is just too important to the Twins. They're a budget franchise that survives on developing and keeping talent. Not only does he fit into that mold but he's a local kid. They can't afford to move him at least until they get back on a winning track.

todu82
08-12-2013, 12:40 PM
Wouldn't mind us kicking the tires on another hitter or bullpen guy. Just as long as we don't have to give up anyone of significance I won't mind.

AI
08-12-2013, 02:23 PM
He can still hit and I think a more permanent move to 1B (or DH after Ortiz) might prolong his career. I doubt he "earns" $23M/yr from here on out though.

Ultimately I think all that is irrelevant. Mauer is just too important to the Twins. They're a budget franchise that survives on developing and keeping talent. Not only does he fit into that mold but he's a local kid. They can't afford to move him at least until they get back on a winning track.

Plus his wife recently had Twins, which is just awesome.

Crucis
08-12-2013, 03:28 PM
I understand what you're saying, however, once the trade has been made all the salaries that were moved are now savings. It may not be a "salary dump" per se, but the dollars traded are saved off of payroll and may be applied to other contracts.


Well, yes, technically, it's "saved" money. My point was only that Agon was earning his money and the Sox wouldn't have moved him if it wasn't absolutely necessary to facilitate that deal. Put another way, if the Sox could have magically dumped CC's and Beckett's contracts but kept Agon and his contract, I think that they'd have been perfectly happy to keep on paying Agon. But things didn't work out that way. And taken as a whole, I think that it's worked out for the best, even if the Sox don't have a really great 1B-man, nor appear to have one in the minors, and may have to make due with whatever they can piece together at that position for a while.

ruckus16969
08-12-2013, 09:11 PM
Who is pitching against the Yanks Sat.??? I'm going to the game

Station 13
08-12-2013, 09:33 PM
Who is pitching against the Yanks Sat.??? I'm going to the game

It's most likely Lackey.

ruckus16969
08-12-2013, 09:36 PM
Shyttty I was hoping for Peavy

RaginRondo17
08-13-2013, 03:27 PM
Any interest in Morneau? Twins got him on waivers until tomorrow at noon, according to MTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/08/justin-morneau-on-revocable-waivers.html)

He's hitting a little better this month, and isn't owed a ton of money the rest of the way. Platoon of Morneau/Napoli at 1st wouldn't be bad. Looking at his splits so far this year, he'd fit right in with our team not being able to hit lefties. He has actually hit better against right handers than Napoli. If we can work out a deal without giving up much, I'd do it.

Morneau
Left (134):.216/.255/.299
Right (297): .283/.345/.481

Napoli:
Left (118): .246/.341/.398
Right (280): .250/.341/.454

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-13-2013, 03:36 PM
Doubt Morneau will make it to us.

Bo Sox Fan
08-13-2013, 04:45 PM
Any interest in Morneau? Twins got him on waivers until tomorrow at noon, according to MTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/08/justin-morneau-on-revocable-waivers.html)

He's hitting a little better this month, and isn't owed a ton of money the rest of the way. Platoon of Morneau/Napoli at 1st wouldn't be bad. Looking at his splits so far this year, he'd fit right in with our team not being able to hit lefties. He has actually hit better against right handers than Napoli. If we can work out a deal without giving up much, I'd do it.

Morneau
Left (134):.216/.255/.299
Right (297): .283/.345/.481

Napoli:
Left (118): .246/.341/.398
Right (280): .250/.341/.454

Absolutely not, why?

Justin Morneau 1B
GP: 110
AVG: .262
OBP: .319
HR: 14
SLG: .425

Mike Carp 1B/LF
GP: 62
AVG: .309
OBP: .370
HR: 8
SLG: .564

Daniel Nava 1B/LF/RF
GP: 100
AVG: .282
OBP: .370
HR: 10
SLG: .416

We already have enough of those guys.

lotti51
08-13-2013, 04:56 PM
Absolutely not, why?

Justin Morneau 1B
GP: 110
AVG: .262
OBP: .319
HR: 14
SLG: .425

Mike Carp 1B/LF
GP: 62
AVG: .309
OBP: .370
HR: 8
SLG: .564

Daniel Nava 1B/LF/RF
GP: 100
AVG: .282
OBP: .370
HR: 10
SLG: .416

We already have enough of those guys.

This. We need a RHP out of the pen, ideally ones that comes in and blows smoke.

RedSoxtober
08-13-2013, 06:07 PM
Any interest in Morneau? Twins got him on waivers until tomorrow at noon, according to MTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/08/justin-morneau-on-revocable-waivers.html)


I was looking at his numbers earlier today. Sad to see how far (and how consistently) he's fallen. Like others here, I don't see a need for a clone of what we've got currently. Either we take a guaranteed fix or we hold our noses and hope Napoli turns in the kind of second half (fourth quarter?) that he has in the past.

ruckus16969
08-13-2013, 06:53 PM
I was looking at his numbers earlier today. Sad to see how far (and how consistently) he's fallen. Like others here, I don't see a need for a clone of what we've got currently. Either we take a guaranteed fix or we hold our noses and hope Napoli turns in the kind of second half (fourth quarter?) that he has in the past.

I completely agree all he will is jam up s a spot on the 40 man roster

bagwell368
08-14-2013, 08:49 AM
I think Carp gets about 20-30% of the PA's at 1B the rest of the way, and Napoli the rest.

Napoli will figure out a way to get another 4 HR's and 20 RBI's. Not a great year, but so far from the ridiculous claims made on 4/4 by Lucchie, in particular with the glove which has been someplace between very very good and excellent.

I do wish that the talk show tools and others come to realize that K's are barely worse than other batted ball outs - such ignorance is annoying.

RedSoxtober
08-14-2013, 03:08 PM
Bonifacio just got traded to KCR for future considerations. The kid has fallen off in a big way. Fellow underperformer Rasmus just hit the DL as well.


I think Carp gets about 20-30% of the PA's at 1B the rest of the way, and Napoli the rest.

Napoli will figure out a way to get another 4 HR's and 20 RBI's. Not a great year, but so far from the ridiculous claims made on 4/4 by Lucchie, in particular with the glove which has been someplace between very very good and excellent.

I do wish that the talk show tools and others come to realize that K's are barely worse than other batted ball outs - such ignorance is annoying.

Basically agree about the split though I think that Carp could get a few more PA with Carp having some fair success as a PH. Those PH PA could also go to a call up with a hot bat.

I've been thinking more about the "productive K" since the abbreviated debate you had with lucchie. I'd certainly prefer a K over a DP. When you consider that he's potentially hitting with Ellsbury, Victorino, Pedroia, and now possibly Drew on base I'd also prefer a K over a FC when you consider the respective speeds of the players left on base against Napoli.

Nomar
08-14-2013, 03:11 PM
Napoli's Ks are more productive than anybody in the majors. Highest number of pitches per AB...

Still Carp has been great.

AI
08-14-2013, 03:25 PM
I'd like to know why Nava continues to gets AB's over Carp. The Nava of the first half is long gone, he has been awful in the second half yet for some reason Farrell has Carp in his doghouse.

Nava

1st Half: .288/.374/.429
2nd Half: .235/.333/.294


Since July 12th

Nava: .217/.308/.261
Carp: .324/.375/.405 (only 37 AB's)

RedSoxtober
08-14-2013, 03:49 PM
^^ Carp doesn't run that well and his defense in the OF is not very good.

AI
08-14-2013, 06:06 PM
^^ Carp doesn't run that well and his defense in the OF is not very good.

Well, the same could be said about Nava.

Nomar
08-14-2013, 06:23 PM
Especially at Fenway I'd say Carp is definitely the better LF against RH starters.

Crucis
08-14-2013, 06:44 PM
Well, the same could be said about Nava.

I thought that Nava's defense had improved and was considered to be passable.

AI
08-14-2013, 07:00 PM
I thought that Nava's defense had improved and was considered to be passable.

Go take a look at his #'s this year.

j-bay
08-14-2013, 10:35 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1h
Cleared waivers, can be traded to any team: #Nationals’ Haren, #Astros’ Bedard, #WhiteSox’s Lindstrom, #Cubs’ Guerrier, #Mariners’ Ryan. 1/2

We had interest in Lindstrom at the deadline.

Lackeyfan41
08-15-2013, 02:13 AM
Something like Lindstrom for Beato would be cool IF Lindstrom could do what Breslow does except from the other side of the mound.

Lackeyfan41
08-15-2013, 02:43 AM
In all seriousness we need another very good RP to help anchor the pen. That has been our biggest whole so far.

Nomar
08-15-2013, 08:24 AM
Hopefully we get some decent sized leads and are able to see more of RDLR or even Britton to see what they will be able to do down the stretch.

RedSoxtober
08-15-2013, 11:32 AM
Go take a look at his #'s this year.

Most folks watching the games have said his defense has improved considerably even if the numbers say something different. Rdrs is -2 and -1 at LF and RF respectively which makes him average. I'm not too concerned with the "Rxxx/yr" numbers because they're misleading in a platoon.

Carp's Rdrs is -4 in 40% fewer innings.

Station 13
08-15-2013, 12:32 PM
Forget Stanton, what would the Dbacks want for Paul Goldschmidt?

AI
08-15-2013, 12:45 PM
Forget Stanton, what would the Dbacks want for Paul Goldschmidt?

That's not happening.

win red sox
08-15-2013, 01:17 PM
Andrus cleared waivers, I remember this offseason some people were interested in trading Ellsbury for him on the premise that XB would not be able to play ss due to his size.

Station 13
08-15-2013, 01:19 PM
Andrus cleared waivers, I remember this offseason some people were interested in trading Ellsbury for him on the premise that XB would not be able to play ss due to his size.


pass by a thousand miles.

RedSoxtober
08-15-2013, 03:45 PM
Andrus cleared waivers, I remember this offseason some people were interested in trading Ellsbury for him on the premise that XB would not be able to play ss due to his size.

Also before he signed a $120M/8yr extension heading into a 71OPS+ season. No thanks.

Norieaga
08-16-2013, 10:36 AM
Yeah, pass on Andrus. He IS young and would allow us to move XB to 3B, however. I might trade for him if Texas isn't asking for anything besides a salary dump. The fact is he's an excellent defender and base-runner, and his contract will be a bargain very soon.

Soxfan85
08-16-2013, 12:48 PM
A team source said Tuesday the Red Sox are “certainly interested” in power-hitting Cuban first baseman Jose Abreu, who has defected and started the process of becoming a free agent.

The 6-foot-3-inch, 250-pound righthanded hitter has taken up residence in Haiti, according to several reports. Over the course of the next few months, Abreu is expected to hold workouts for interested teams while his representatives get the necessary clearances from Major League Baseball and the United States government.

With Mike Napoli signed only through the end of this season, the Sox will have a need at first base in 2014. The position is perhaps the weakest in the team’s farm system.

Abreu, 26, was considered the best hitter in the Serie Nacional in Cuba. He hit .382 with an outrageous 1.270 OPS for Cienfuegos. Over 42 games, Abreu had 13 home runs.


Abreu hit .394 with a 1.379 OPS during the 2011-12 season. He had 35 home runs over 71 games.

The success of Cuban sluggers Yoenis Cespedes (Athletics) and Yasiel Puig (Dodgers) adds legitimacy to the idea that Abreu could star for a major league team next season.

Abreu could be a liability defensively and some scouts question whether he has the athleticism to catch up to major league pitching.

But he is expected to command a multi-year deal.

The Sox could look at Abreu as a first baseman with an eye on moving him to designated hitter once David Ortiz retires.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/08/13/red-sox-interested-cuban-first-baseman-jose-abreu/d4S4KBWFYzm8yyHWGmNQNN/story.html

Crucis
08-16-2013, 07:59 PM
Soxfan85, shouldn't that post really be in the Abreu thread? After all, from everything I've read, Abreu probably won't be hitting the FA market until the off-season.

Crucis
08-16-2013, 08:03 PM
Yeah, pass on Andrus. He IS young and would allow us to move XB to 3B, however. I might trade for him if Texas isn't asking for anything besides a salary dump. The fact is he's an excellent defender and base-runner, and his contract will be a bargain very soon.

I'd pass on Andrus at this point as well. The Sox already have Bogearts for SS, with Marerro advancing thru the system as well at that position. Plus they already have WMB at 3rd, who might be able to turn into a productive power-hitting 3B-man (maybe) and Cechini not far away. It seems pretty crazy for the Sox to be looking outside their own system for SS and 3B for the next couple of years, besides which the internal talent would help the team free up resources to use to sign players like this Abreu for 1B.

AI
08-22-2013, 03:44 PM
Sources: #Rockies’ Betancourt on waivers. Team holds $4.25M option on him for ’14, plans to bring him back. So, offer would need to be good.

I've always liked this guy.

Sweet_Caroline
08-23-2013, 12:18 AM
And Betancourt just tore an elbow ligament tonight. Ouch. Kinda wish we would've added some sort of righty reliever on the cheap.

-Lavigne43-
08-23-2013, 02:06 PM
We're not going to be able to claim anyone worth it when the O's and Rays are ahead of us on waivers. We won't get anyone attractive

Crucis
08-23-2013, 02:31 PM
We're not going to be able to claim anyone worth it when the O's and Rays are ahead of us on waivers. We won't get anyone attractive

A downside to being in 1st place in August.