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Mile High Champ
08-06-2013, 12:02 PM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 6th year I have done this on PSD and it always brings some great discussion and debate. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron James and the Miami Heat are back to back NBA champions after an exciting 7 game series win over the Spurs. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 5 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

Due to some people complaining that the rule was not written for the PG poll; in order to be eligible for these rankings, players must of played in 10 or more games last season. Thank you.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Andre Iguodala
5) Paul Pierce
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2012 Off-Season PSD SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Andre Iguodala
6) Rudy Gay
7) Luol Deng
8) Danny Granger
9) Danilo Gallinari
10) Nicolas Batum

2011 Off-Season Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Andre Iguodala
6) Danny Granger
7) Luol Deng
8) Rudy Gay
9) Gerald Wallace
10) Danilo Gallinari

2010 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Gerald Wallace
7) Andre Iguodala
8) Rudy Gay
9) Luol Deng
10) Ron Artest

2009 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

2008 Off-Season SF rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

Mile High Champ
08-06-2013, 12:04 PM
mods please sticky.

I Rock Shaqs
08-06-2013, 12:08 PM
Rudy gay or Luol Deng for me.

nycericanguy
08-06-2013, 01:16 PM
Gallo...

JusDBasics
08-06-2013, 01:28 PM
This has gotta be Rudy

Chronz
08-06-2013, 01:37 PM
Kawhi Leonard

nycericanguy
08-06-2013, 02:00 PM
Kawhi Leonard

Over Gallo? Who averaged 16ppg in just 32mpg and just 12 FGA as the #1/#1b option on a 57 win team?

Avenged
08-06-2013, 02:01 PM
Kawhiiiiiiiiii

Chronz
08-06-2013, 02:10 PM
Over Gallo? Who averaged 16ppg in just 32mpg and just 12 FGA as the #1/#1b option on a 57 win team?
Gallo is injured and wont be coming back for like a month or 2 right? He has choked in the playoffs before and I dont think is likely to have a better year all things considered. Gallo is criminally underrated and while Im sure he would have done fine with the whole playoff thing, Im looking to see if Kawhi can keep his post season play going into next year. Tho I remember when I felt the same about Deng.

Radio Rakeem
08-06-2013, 02:14 PM
Gotta go with Rudy here....no one inside/outside the top 10 has leapfrogged him from last year

nycericanguy
08-06-2013, 02:19 PM
Gallo is injured and wont be coming back for like a month or 2 right? He has choked in the playoffs before and I dont think is likely to have a better year all things considered. Gallo is criminally underrated and while Im sure he would have done fine with the whole playoff thing, Im looking to see if Kawhi can keep his post season play going into next year. Tho I remember when I felt the same about Deng.

I think Khawi could be better than Gallo next year, but I'd like to see him actually do it over the course of a full season before I put him ahead of Gallo who has been very good for 4-5 years straight.

Chronz
08-06-2013, 02:26 PM
Yea some people are like that. Im like that with superstars who have won or have a history of coming up big in the playoffs. Gallo vs Kawhi isn't untouchable grounds for me but again, I dont even know when Gallo is suppose to be back. If this is just a when healthy type argument, then I can see your point. In which case my argument becomes, Ill wait for him to come up big in the post season ala Kawhi last year.

tredigs
08-06-2013, 03:33 PM
kawhi's got a pretty damn good case. I came in still leaning Gallinari because of his proven ability to shoulder a larger offensive role while maintaining solid D (and I was more comparing him to Deng than anyone else), but in truth Kawhi is both better defensively and better in his particular role offensively (though it is an easier one). The fact that Kawhi was a pretty weak 3pt shooter in college and then immediately became a threat once he hit the Spurs is probably a testament to both his work ethic and that organization. They breed success, it's ridiculous. But being that he also boards at a huge rate and can fly in transition, it makes him more than just a 3 and D guy. Gets even better in the playoffs, too.

Rudy Gay? Let's get out of here with that. He's a high volume/low-efficiency shooter who does everything else at a mediocre level. His talent has always been greater than his production and it fools people because of what he is capable of in spurts. That said, if he came up in San Antonio he'd probably be All NBA. Or traded.

I'll wait for a couple more arguments, but I'm probably switch it up and going Kawhi.

And I'm not sure if people are going to be able to throw out the couple months of the season when Skiles was making Ilyasova's life hell, but after he got fired Ersan went back to the form he had when he torched it later in the 2012 season and imo was the best SF outside of the big guns. Last 50 or so games with Boylan (getting more minutes, and earning them) he put up 16/8/2 +1.3 TO's on 49/46/81 (and in turn, vindicated myself drafting him so ****ing high in the fantasy draft. Mahalo Ersan). He was a top 10 SF for sure. AK's the other one who I think will go underrated again (basically anyone whose best attributes are defense and rebounding).

Minimal
08-06-2013, 03:38 PM
Rudy Gay. I can't believe Deng is leading this one.

nycericanguy
08-06-2013, 03:40 PM
I voted Gallo, but really I think Iggy is #6.

I voted Iggy at #4, but in hindsight, he wasn't even the best SF on his own team... Gallo was.

So I'd say #4 Pierce, 5 - Gallo - 6 - Iggy.

tredigs
08-06-2013, 03:51 PM
I voted Gallo, but really I think Iggy is #6.

I voted Iggy at #4, but in hindsight, he wasn't even the best SF on his own team... Gallo was.

So I'd say #4 Pierce, 5 - Gallo - 6 - Iggy.

I'd disagree with that. I think Gallo makes any team better and is the more skilled offensive player for sure, but Iggy actually has the ability to hugely impact a defense and everyone's mindset on that end, which is probably more impactful for a team. Even if it doesn't show up in the box score, it does in a win column.

PS I'm sick of PSD telling me that impactful (!) is not a word and red lining my shnee

PSS - Deng's good, but not better than Leonard or Gallo. And not better than Ersan when he's actually played appropriately (which was most of the year). Better than AK? Maybe. Batum? Close, probably.

Eagles4Lyfe
08-06-2013, 03:57 PM
Kawhi people camon

nycericanguy
08-06-2013, 04:13 PM
I'd disagree with that. I think Gallo makes any team better and is the more skilled offensive player for sure, but Iggy actually has the ability to hugely impact a defense and everyone's mindset on that end, which is probably more impactful for a team. Even if it doesn't show up in the box score, it does in a win column.

PS I'm sick of PSD telling me that impactful (!) is not a word and red lining my shnee

PSS - Deng's good, but not better than Leonard or Gallo. And not better than Ersan when he's actually played appropriately (which was most of the year). Better than AK? Maybe. Batum? Close, probably.

DEN was so much better offensively with Gallo then they were defensively with Iggy.

Gallo had a 116/107 ORTG/DRTG while Iggy was just 105/105.

That combined with Gallo being much more efficient on offense... I dont know, I think most DEN fans would agree Gallo was their best SF last year. Iggy's position is kind of difficult too, I think he's really a SG more than SF.

tredigs
08-06-2013, 04:23 PM
DEN was so much better offensively with Gallo then they were defensively with Iggy.

Gallo had a 116/107 ORTG/DRTG while Iggy was just 105/105.

That combined with Gallo being much more efficient on offense... I dont know, I think most DEN fans would agree Gallo was their best SF last year. Iggy's position is kind of difficult too, I think he's really a SG more than SF.

I don't think that's a very good measure of how much better Den was defensively with Iguodala in town.

But yeah he played SG last year, SF in Philly. He'll be SF in GS.

Iggz53
08-06-2013, 05:22 PM
Close between Deng and Leonard here for me, mostly because of Deng's all-around defense (man and especially team/help D). But going with Leonard here because Deng really struggled with his shot, leading to pretty low efficiency. Gallo doesn't come close to matching up defensively with those guys.

nycericanguy
08-06-2013, 05:28 PM
Gallo is a very good defender, he's just a EURO player with that label on him.

ricky recon
08-06-2013, 05:48 PM
Who out-performed who?

2012-2013:

Player A: PER: 15.1 - WS/48: .105 - DRtg 105*
Player B: PER: 18.0 - WS/48: .127 - DRtg 104

*Player A's team has a better overall DRtg as well.

-----

Player A is the man currently slated as #6 SF (Deng). Player B hasn't had a single vote (Marion).

Shows you how accurate these rankings really turn out.

tredigs
08-06-2013, 06:13 PM
Who out-performed who?

2012-2013:

Player A: PER: 15.1 - WS/48: .105 - DRtg 105* -
Player B: PER: 18.0 - WS/48: .127 - DRtg 104

*Player A's team has a better overall DRtg as well.

-----

Player A is the man currently slated as #6 SF (Deng). Player B hasn't had a single vote (Marion).

Shows you how accurate these rankings really turn out.
To go further:

Deng: Synergy PPP defensively = 0.85. Offensively = 0.89. RAPM = 1.4. WP48 = .126

Gallo: Synergy PPP defensively = 0.88. Offensively = 1.00. RAPM = 3.8. WP48 = .122

Kawhi: Synergy PPP defensively = 0.82. Offensively = 1.08. RAPM = 1.5. WP48 = .247. PER = 16.4. WS48 = .166

Ilyasova: Synergy PPP defensively = 0.94. Offensively = 1.01. RAPM = 2.5. WP48 = .216. PER = 18.3. WS48 = .159

RAPM is basically an advanced/regularized +/- for those who don't use it. Way better than a stat like PER as it can account for the defensive impact of guys like Iggy/Sefalosha/Allen, etc.
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

WP = WinsProduced from Dave Berri: Goes about it in a different way but still attempts to account for the benefits of defense + rebounding that largely goes unnoticed by other stats. His wins projections on the yearly using this are pretty damn impressive. http://www.thenbageek.com/

Synergy you guys should know by now, but it tracks every play and accounts for points per possession in all different types of offense/defense (lower is better for defense and opposite for offense obviously).
http://mysynergysports.com/

Context wise you have to account for the players role in the offense/defense when looking at them, but they're better than almost anything else we've got in the public right now.

Just more fun **** to dive into when you're thinking about comparing the players without just using your eyes (since most of us didn't see 9/10ths of these players games) and per-game box score stats.

Anyway, Kawhi's still the choice here as far as I can see.

tredigs
08-06-2013, 06:18 PM
And sorry did Gallo instead of Marion, but Matrix still shows really well on all those stats except for offensively from RAPM for some reason. Would be interesting to see why that is.

5ass
08-06-2013, 06:46 PM
And sorry did Gallo instead of Marion, but Matrix still shows really well on all those stats except for offensively from RAPM for some reason. Would be interesting to see why that is.

Can you add Batum? Im wondering why he hasnt been mentioned yet.

GREATNESS ONE
08-06-2013, 07:09 PM
Deng and Leonard in the next two spots, you couldn't go wrong with either choice here.

tredigs
08-06-2013, 07:20 PM
Can you add Batum? Im wondering why he hasnt been mentioned yet.

Sure

Batum: Synergy: defense = 0.86. Offense = 0.94. RAPM = 0.9. WP48 = .178. PER = 15.7 and WS48 = .099

Synergy wise I'd say anything > 1.00 ppp offensively is very solid and defensively allowing <0.90 ppp is ideal. His best defense synergy wise was in ISO which makes sense with his quick feet and height+long wingspan combo.

Off the top of my head RAPM wise I'd say >1.5 is very solid. And for WS + WP > .150

He was solid but looks like he struggled a little bit with the increased workload. I watched a lot more of him 2 years ago then last year though so I'm not sure if he was dealing with injury or anything.

JusDBasics
08-06-2013, 07:43 PM
This is actually a joke. How are u gonna vote for a guy that averaged 12 & 6 as the 6th best small forward over someone who averaged 20, 6 & 3. Kawhu leonard is a role player. Rudy is a star. Shooting percentage cannot mean that much. Its not like he shot in the 30"s. Plus he has a better FT %. Deng here i can understand sort of but Kawhi?! Nah maybe in another couple years.

Plus the man had terrible vision so now with the surgery being done he can only get better.

tredigs
08-06-2013, 07:50 PM
This is actually a joke. How are u gonna vote for a guy that averaged 12 & 6 as the 6th best small forward over someone who averaged 20, 6 & 3. Kawhu leonard is a role player. Rudy is a star. Shooting percentage cannot mean that much. Its not like he shot in the 30"s. Plus he has a better FT %. Deng here i can understand sort of but Kawhi?! Nah maybe in another couple years.

Plus the man had terrible vision so now with the surgery being done he can only get better.

Kawhi's a great rebounder and a great defender. Gay is great at nothing.

JerseyPalahniuk
08-06-2013, 08:41 PM
Gotta go with Kwahi here. Deng showed some real signs of decline over the season. Thibs may have finally run him down. Hope Butler's improvement will limit some of Deng's minutes. THIBS DONT OVERPLAY BUTLER

IversonIsKrazy
08-06-2013, 08:53 PM
Both Deng & Gay can make a case here imo. Gay is more skilled offensively, but Deng is far more defensive. I think those should go 6 & 7. Followed by Gallo, Kawahi & #10 = Parsons.

TrueFan420
08-06-2013, 09:52 PM
Kawhi's a great rebounder and a great defender. Gay is great at nothing.

While I agree the team situation really does make a massive difference. Put gay on the spurs he looks much better and kawhi trying to carry the raptors and his efficiency goes down drastically. With that said I wouldn't take either for this spot. Went gallo.

Radio Rakeem
08-06-2013, 09:52 PM
This is actually a joke. How are u gonna vote for a guy that averaged 12 & 6 as the 6th best small forward over someone who averaged 20, 6 & 3. Kawhu leonard is a role player. Rudy is a star. Shooting percentage cannot mean that much. Its not like he shot in the 30"s. Plus he has a better FT %. Deng here i can understand sort of but Kawhi?! Nah maybe in another couple years.

Plus the man had terrible vision so now with the surgery being done he can only get better.

Agree


Kawhi's a great rebounder and a great defender. Gay is great at nothing.

Gay actually averaged more rebounds per game. Their rebounding numbers throughout the year are actually similar...I really see no difference in that aspect. I agree with the fact that Kawhi is a better defender...but you cant honestly tell me that Kawhi deserves the 6th spot at this stage of his career.

Throw his obnoxious contract aside, Rudy is a proven player that has averaged 20ppg over the majority of his career. He's no Igoudala or Kawhi defensively, but he isn't a scrub in that aspect either. Besides last season, and his rookie year, Gay has shot over 45% from the field. He isn't a great 3pt shooter but its at a level where you at least have to respect it. He also get to the ft line at a good clip and capitalizes on it by shooting a good percentage.

Rudy has all the qualities found in a star player. He has and continues to show that he is willing and capable of being the go to player on a team. Given the right opportunity, I believe that he could put up numbers greater than his 20,6,and 3 he put up with the Raptors this past half a season.

In no way am I knocking Kawhi qualities as a player. I think that he is really good. I just don't think that he has proven enough over the past season (discounting playoffs) to be the 6th best SF in the NBA.

Trueblue2
08-06-2013, 10:19 PM
Gallo, he ended the year hurt but that doesnt negate how well he did this season.

Next is deng.

After that gay.

After that kahwii.

Then it can be any number of players.

Iggz53
08-06-2013, 10:23 PM
Agree



Gay actually averaged more rebounds per game. Their rebounding numbers throughout the year are actually similar...I really see no difference in that aspect. I agree with the fact that Kawhi is a better defender...but you cant honestly tell me that Kawhi deserves the 6th spot at this stage of his career.

Throw his obnoxious contract aside, Rudy is a proven player that has averaged 20ppg over the majority of his career. He's no Igoudala or Kawhi defensively, but he isn't a scrub in that aspect either. Besides last season, and his rookie year, Gay has shot over 45% from the field. He isn't a great 3pt shooter but its at a level where you at least have to respect it. He also get to the ft line at a good clip and capitalizes on it by shooting a good percentage.

Rudy has all the qualities found in a star player. He has and continues to show that he is willing and capable of being the go to player on a team. Given the right opportunity, I believe that he could put up numbers greater than his 20,6,and 3 he put up with the Raptors this past half a season.

In no way am I knocking Kawhi qualities as a player. I think that he is really good. I just don't think that he has proven enough over the past season (discounting playoffs) to be the 6th best SF in the NBA.

Offensively, his efficiency is far below average. If you're taking 17 shots a game and scoring 18 ppg with a TS% below 50% (which is abysmal), then you're hurting your team more than helping it. And defensively, he's just mediocre. It should tell you something when Memphis got better after simply getting rid of Gay and getting a role player in Prince in return.

Mile High Champ
08-07-2013, 12:27 AM
I recognize the inefficiency of Gay but I saw a different player down the stretch. It took him some time to adjust to the system in Toronto and I saw him become a much more effective player. He started to demonstrate a willingness to play off the ball and differ those contested looks he kept taking when he arrived in Toronto. His stats over the final month of the season were also pretty impressive as he scored 20 ppg, averaged 6.6 boards and 3 assists while shooting 48% from the floor while shooting 50% from beyond the arch. Yes it is only a 9 game sample size but I saw enough to take him over both Deng, Leonard, Batum and Gallinari going forward. I really think this is the year Gay will put everything together and with the growth of Jonas Valanciunas, Gay should have an easier time next year getting his shots to fall with better looks.

mrblisterdundee
08-07-2013, 01:11 AM
Kawhi Leonard, although about six years younger, outshined Luol Deng this season, if you include the playoffs.
On a per 36-minute basis, Leonard was less impactful than Deng offensively, but he played on a more loaded team with a slower pace than the Bulls. And Leonard outperformed Deng in his own specialty: Defense.
In the playoffs that gap between them just grew. Sure; Deng was on a depleted team playing Miami, but with eight more minutes on the court per game, he couldn't match Leonard's production. Multiply Deng's PER in the playoffs by two, and it still doesn't equal Leonard's.
Meanwhile, Leonard cemented himself as at least the third-most valuable player on a loaded San Antonio Spurs – he'll likely be the second-most valuable this coming season, after Tony Parker.

mrblisterdundee
08-07-2013, 01:15 AM
Gotta go with Rudy here....no one inside/outside the top 10 has leapfrogged him from last year

I think Gay's fall in this poll is just a product of his trade to Toronto. When they're good next year, I think Gay will get a lot of the credit, and rightfully so. Let's just hope he and Valancius can introduce Canada to defense.

b@llhog24
08-07-2013, 01:47 AM
Gallo. But I would've voted K Leonard if I knew Deng was gonna win this ****.

AIsixersFK
08-07-2013, 01:48 AM
Not that he's top ten but where's Evan Turner?

dalton749
08-07-2013, 02:50 AM
You can't run an offence through Leonard so I don't see how he's even in the discussion.

It's Rudy here

rockets-fan
08-07-2013, 04:45 AM
I swear if Parsons doesn't make the top ten I'd flip out?

sunsfan88
08-07-2013, 08:45 AM
I swear if Parsons doesn't make the top ten I'd flip out?

He will make it. If Leonard makes it, then Parsons is guaranteed a spot. He's basically the less developed white version of him.

Make Deng, I hope Gay gets it. Then Leonard and Parsons right after that.

Parsons, Gallo and Batum are gonna be drawing a lot of debates.

Gators123
08-07-2013, 08:52 AM
Leonard

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2013, 09:27 AM
I swear if Parsons doesn't make the top ten I'd flip out?

Are you asking us if you'd flip out?

Jetsguy
08-07-2013, 09:54 AM
I voted Kawhi

SteBO
08-07-2013, 10:06 AM
Was stuck between Luol Deng and Kawhi....went with Kawhi. Maybe I'm being prisoner of the moment guy, but I was just way too impressed with him in the Finals and throughout the Spurs playoff run, that I just couldn't not take him here. Wouldn't be upset with Deng winning it though.

nycericanguy
08-07-2013, 10:11 AM
Deng is being overrated here, he's not that good a defender anymore, and offensively he was about league average. Consider that it took him nearly 39mpg to put up the same points that Gallo did in 32mpg on significantly fewer shots.

Look at his ORTG/DRTG of 105/105 compared to the other Bulls starters.

tredigs
08-07-2013, 11:14 AM
Why is Deng so popular, exactly? Can someone lay out an argument for him over these other guys that doesn't involve "minutes played dude!", or..?

nycericanguy
08-07-2013, 11:35 AM
Why is Deng so popular, exactly? Can someone lay out an argument for him over these other guys that doesn't involve "minutes played dude!", or..?

I have no idea, he shot .426%, horrible from 3, got to the line very little.

His per game numbers look decent because he spent so much more time on the court compared to these other guys.

Allphakenny1
08-07-2013, 12:12 PM
I swear if Parsons doesn't make the top ten I'd flip out?

I have Parsons at 9 so he will get my vote eventually.

ChiSox219
08-07-2013, 01:06 PM
Why is Deng so popular, exactly? Can someone lay out an argument for him over these other guys that doesn't involve "minutes played dude!", or..?

I don't think popular describes Deng, he is underrrated by most everyone and a large percentage of Bulls fans have wanted him traded for years.

Deng has been in the top quartile of RAPM for like the last five years. I think of him as a more athletic Shane Battier.

Chronz
08-07-2013, 01:40 PM
Deng has been hampered by injuries every season, Thibs rides him hard. I feel like we havent seen the best of Deng in a long time.

BullsNumber1Fan
08-07-2013, 01:58 PM
Deng has been hampered by injuries every season, Thibs rides him hard. I feel like we havent seen the best of Deng in a long time.

Yea, Deng was at his best his 1st season with Thibs back in '10-'11. Averaged over 17.5/6 with a 55 TS% and his usual lock-down defense. But his wrist problem really messed him up last season and this season he was averaged 18/7 for the first two months before he broke his thumb and strained his hamstring. Hopefully he can come back 100% for the first time in over a year and a half and we can see the real Luol.

5ass
08-07-2013, 02:00 PM
Yea, Deng was at his best his 1st season with Thibs back in '10-'11. Averaged over 17.5/6 with a 55 TS% and his usual lock-down defense. But his wrist problem really messed him up last season and this season he was averaged 18/7 for the first two months before he broke his thumb and strained his hamstring. Hopefully he can come back 100% for the first time in over a year and a half and we can see the real Luol.

Is that the official Pelicans' logo?

BullsNumber1Fan
08-07-2013, 02:05 PM
Is that the official Pelicans' logo?

It is not. I like it more than the real logo though.

5ass
08-07-2013, 02:05 PM
Sure

Batum: Synergy: defense = 0.86. Offense = 0.94. RAPM = 0.9. WP48 = .178. PER = 15.7 and WS48 = .099

Synergy wise I'd say anything > 1.00 ppp offensively is very solid and defensively allowing <0.90 ppp is ideal. His best defense synergy wise was in ISO which makes sense with his quick feet and height+long wingspan combo.

Off the top of my head RAPM wise I'd say >1.5 is very solid. And for WS + WP > .150

He was solid but looks like he struggled a little bit with the increased workload. I watched a lot more of him 2 years ago then last year though so I'm not sure if he was dealing with injury or anything.

Thanks.
Also keep in mind that Deng has Noah and Thibs. Leonard has Splitter, Duncan, and Popovich. Batum had Aldridge and the worst defensive center in the year last year, Hickson. My only problem with Batum is that I think he's better suited to play SG. He's not strong enough for alot of these SFs.

5ass
08-07-2013, 02:06 PM
It is not. I like it more than the real logo though.

me too.

IversonIsKrazy
08-07-2013, 03:33 PM
Wow. Look I love the Spurs, but even I wouldn't put Leonard over these guys just yet. Give it a year or 2 and yea sure, I can see Kawahi being #4, but he's not #6 yet. This should've been Deng or Gay. Followed by Gallo. Kawahi should be #9, with PArson just cracking the top 10.

WadeKobe
08-07-2013, 03:52 PM
I am going to go with Kawhi. He is a beast. He is insanely good on D, shoots a high percentage, and rebounds at an astounding rate. Also, he has the skill set to be a high usage primary option player whenever Pops hands him the keys and... Well... He is a Spur.

Kawhi will likely be #3 moving forward.

Craptors84
08-08-2013, 08:03 AM
I recognize the inefficiency of Gay but I saw a different player down the stretch. It took him some time to adjust to the system in Toronto and I saw him become a much more effective player. He started to demonstrate a willingness to play off the ball and differ those contested looks he kept taking when he arrived in Toronto. His stats over the final month of the season were also pretty impressive as he scored 20 ppg, averaged 6.6 boards and 3 assists while shooting 48% from the floor while shooting 50% from beyond the arch. Yes it is only a 9 game sample size but I saw enough to take him over both Deng, Leonard, Batum and Gallinari going forward. I really think this is the year Gay will put everything together and with the growth of Jonas Valanciunas, Gay should have an easier time next year getting his shots to fall with better looks.
This. Rudy was killin it towards the end of the season. I voted Kawhi here cuz he was the only one contending with Deng on this poll. I vote Rudy next, then Deng or Gallo at #8.