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lol, please
08-03-2013, 05:38 PM
Assume both rosters are fully healthy. Who wins in a 7 game series? Many of our fans have the Rockets in our sights after the Dwight saga and it's a popular opinion in our forum that we are the better team, I would like some input from non fans who wouldn't be as easily clouded with bias as a fan of his own team is, which roster would you put your money on?

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 05:41 PM
Both teams fully healthy I take the Dubs. I think they could put Iggy on Harden and get away with Thompson on Parsons enough to really make their lives difficult. Bogut is also a tough matchup for Dwight in a half court battle. I think they just have too many weapons.

FOBolous
08-03-2013, 05:43 PM
on paper, the Rockets have the league's best duo (the league's best SG and best C). Then you put Parsons with them along with some shooters and you got a team that's hard to beat...i don't care how good Curry is. but then again, I'm a rockets fan so i may be a little bias.

Pakman
08-03-2013, 05:45 PM
Warriors easy

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 05:47 PM
on paper, the Rockets have the league's best duo (the league's best SG and best C). Then you put Parsons with them along with some shooters and you got a team that's hard to beat...i don't care how good Curry is. but then again, I'm a rockets fan so i may be a little bias.

Dwight is the leagues best C but I don't think he's good enough offensively to form that inside out Shaq and Kobe type connection with Harden. You can't play off him offensively, he's a monster presence on both ends and will get his 18-20 points but you need to be able to play off him to really boast that type of duo that is impossible to stop. Its still gonna come down to stopping Harden and Harden only.

likemystylez
08-03-2013, 06:05 PM
Iggy on harden is a good place to start, If bogut is healthy he can keep Howard from controlling the game. Nobody on the rockets can stop curry and Lee.... and If barnes and thompson continue to get better- the warriors should take that series.

I Rock Shaqs
08-03-2013, 06:09 PM
You guys are clearly forgetting how much of a beast Howard is when he is healthy, not talking Laker healthy but Orlando Healthy and Patrick Beverely plays great defense and would be able to limit CUrry a bit and you are also underrating Parsons like crazy he would tear Thompson up.

flea
08-03-2013, 06:11 PM
Warriors - it's not close, they're stacked when healthy. The 4th best player on the Warriors could be someone as good as Harrison Barnes. The 4th best player for the Rockets is probably Patrick Beverly. They're good, but let's not kid ourselves here - Howard/Parsons/Harden is not exactly Bosh/Wade/Lebron here. That roster needs more, or their stars need more development.

MrfadeawayJB
08-03-2013, 06:11 PM
Warriors

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-03-2013, 06:13 PM
Assume both rosters are fully healthy. Who wins in a 7 game series? Many of our fans have the Rockets in our sights after the Dwight saga and it's a popular opinion in our forum that we are the better team, I would like some input from non fans who wouldn't be as easily clouded with bias as a fan of his own team is, which roster would you put your money on?

Dubs in 6, if Dwight tries to be the number one option Dubs in 5.

sunsfan88
08-03-2013, 06:14 PM
With Bogut likely injured by then, Dwight would dominate the boards. Lee and 65 year old O'Neal isn't enough to keep Dwight off the glass.

However, Curry is still a beast and him and Thompson can off set/counter Harden's production. Igoudala is better than Parsons and the X factor imo becomes Harrison Barnes who has so much potential to break out next year and become a 6th Man of the year candidate.

I would pick GSW in 6 imo. I might be biased though cause I love their young guns (Curry, Thompson, Barnes)

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 06:24 PM
Rockets, biased maybe sure, I just don't think people know enough about our players to give them credit. Parsons is way better than the average NBA fan thinks. I have them playing in the first round so we will see then I guess (hope)

Goose17
08-03-2013, 06:26 PM
With both teams healthy? Dubs. Comfortably. More depth, more diversity.

Iggy will shut Harden down. Dwight can't carry the teams offense.

Health not guaranteed? Different ball game.


For the sake of full disclosure, I'm a dubs fan and 100% biased.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 06:30 PM
You guys are clearly forgetting how much of a beast Howard is when he is healthy, not talking Laker healthy but Orlando Healthy and Patrick Beverely plays great defense and would be able to limit CUrry a bit and you are also underrating Parsons like crazy he would tear Thompson up.

Tear him up as in....dropping 16-18 points? I think Dubs will live with that if Harden's life is miserable and he's working tremendously hard to get his 25.

Howard is a beast but you can't run an offense through him.

IgglesFanInCO
08-03-2013, 06:31 PM
Dubs win if healthy, but they are MUCH less likely to be healthy

Bostonjorge
08-03-2013, 06:31 PM
Thomson is a good defender. He plays kobe good and in these playoffs he played Parker really good. Thomson would not have trouble with parsons. U could give Howard and harden best 2 players in series but after that.

1. Howard
2. Harden
2a. Curry
4. AI
5. Thomson
5a. Barnes
7. Lee
8. Parsons
9. Bogut
10. Lin

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-03-2013, 06:40 PM
With both teams healthy? Dubs. Comfortably. More depth, more diversity.

Iggy will shut Harden down. Dwight can't carry the teams offense.

Health not guaranteed? Different ball game.



For the sake of full disclosure, I'm a dubs fan and 100% biased.

You may be biased,but your spot on.

Leftcoast_yg
08-03-2013, 06:41 PM
The warriors. If Harden gets shut down the rockets would be done. Also outside of Howard they really dont have any defenders.

5ass
08-03-2013, 06:43 PM
Theres no team in the league that matches up with the Rockets as well as the the Warriors. Bogut on Howard, and Iggy on Harden. Then you have three point shooters that can score outside the paint and not have to worry about Howard protecting the paint. Still its a really close battle.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 07:22 PM
Rockets.

Silent
08-03-2013, 07:36 PM
Rockets in 6

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 07:41 PM
The warriors. If Harden gets shut down the rockets would be done. Also outside of Howard they really dont have any defenders.

Parsons defense is pretty good, as is Patrick Beverly, and oh yea that one guy Asik...

lukass
08-03-2013, 07:42 PM
Rockets for sure they have the one guy (in that series) that can put a team on his back Harden.

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 07:44 PM
Thomson is a good defender. He plays kobe good and in these playoffs he played Parker really good. Thomson would not have trouble with parsons. U could give Howard and harden best 2 players in series but after that.

1. Howard
2. Harden
2a. Curry
4. AI
5. Thomson
5a. Barnes
7. Lee
8. Parsons
9. Bogut
10. Lin


Barnes and Thompson are better than Parsons? No.

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 07:46 PM
Barnes and Thompson are better than Parsons? No.

Howard
Harden
Curry
AI
Lee
Parsons
Thompson
Bogut
Barnes
Lin

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 07:47 PM
Yeah, the Rocket fan is right. Parsons is better than Thompson, Barnes, and Lee. And Thompson and Barnes aren't equal. Klay is obviously better than him.

DanG
08-03-2013, 07:53 PM
James Harden still has to prove me that he can play like a superstar in the playoffs. + the dubs have Iggy to guard him. The only thing Golden State has to worry about is Dwight, but you can always send him to the free throw line. :rolleyes:

Warriors in 5 or 6.

MonroeFAN
08-03-2013, 08:02 PM
I think an argument can be made for Thompson > Parsons. Not Barnes though.

Both teams are good, difficult decision. I'm going to go with the Warriors.

Htownballa1622
08-03-2013, 08:05 PM
The only reason this is a discussion is because these are two young and upcoming teams that were in play for Dwight.

There's no rivalry up until Rox spanked Dubs one game that they got hot from 3 , tied the nba record for 3s, and Beverly had a dunk and got rowdy in front of jack/landry (Iirc). I actually went to that game-fun.

Then we had back and forth on this forum with dumb statements made by each fan base (Op most notably included-check the sig and "Dwight will be a dub" talk).

These teams should worry more about Okc,Clips,Spurs, and Grizz before having a ****ing contest between each other.

I'm biased so I'm not going to try and change any opinions. I obviously feel my team would win because we added the best center in the game after taking 3of4 last year but they did add Iggy who plays Harden well.

All I can say is we shall see but there shouldn't be back and forth between both fan bases because it's unlikely either gets out of the West, let alone take down Miami or another Eastern foe. Another year for both teams.

Blitzace137
08-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Too early to tell but I'll take the Rockets in 6.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:10 PM
James Harden still has to prove me that he can play like a superstar in the playoffs. + the dubs have Iggy to guard him. The only thing Golden State has to worry about is Dwight, but you can always send him to the free throw line. :rolleyes:

Warriors in 5 or 6.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaahcDNJNuo

I Rock Shaqs
08-03-2013, 08:11 PM
Tear him up as in....dropping 16-18 points? I think Dubs will live with that if Harden's life is miserable and he's working tremendously hard to get his 25.

Howard is a beast but you can't run an offense through him.

Where is this proof? It doesn't matter because most of the people on here are just voting against Dwight because they think he is a douche, he's easy a top 5 player in the league when fully healthy. And I find it hilarious that people think Iggy( who's one of my favourite player in the league) is going to completely shut down Harden like he's some scrub for a whole 7 games.

I Rock Shaqs
08-03-2013, 08:14 PM
Parsons defense is pretty good, as is Patrick Beverly, and oh yea that one guy Asik...

Exactly lol people are acting like Curry and Thompson are going to each drop 40 points a night and Lee & Bogut are scoring machines.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:16 PM
Exactly lol people are acting like Curry and Thompson are going to each drop 40 points a night and Lee & Bogut are scoring machines.

Well, Lee and Curry are scoring machines and Bogut is a monster defensively.

But I also believe the Rockets would win the series despite that fact. People just like to hate Dwight right now.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 08:18 PM
Where is this proof? It doesn't matter because most of the people on here are just voting against Dwight because they think he is a douche, he's easy a top 5 player in the league when fully healthy. And I find it hilarious that people think Iggy( who's one of my favourite player in the league) is going to completely shut down Harden like he's some scrub for a whole 7 games.

You quote my post saying Harden will still average his 25 ppg, he will just work extremely hard to do it, nothing will be easy, and he won't be as efficient as he normally is, than you write 'act like he will completely shut down Harden like some scrub'. Don't think anyone said that actually.

And the proof that you cannot run an offense through Dwight is pretty evident in watching him play. Scoring 20 points doesn't mean you are a guy you can feed the ball to and run offense through. He simply doesn't have the necessary skills.

He is a top 5 player when healthy for a lot of reasons, being a guy you can pitch the ball to on the block to create offense is not one of them.

steveweve
08-03-2013, 08:18 PM
Completely healthy? Warriors, hands down.

steveweve
08-03-2013, 08:19 PM
Exactly lol people are acting like Curry and Thompson are going to each drop 40 points a night and Lee & Bogut are scoring machines.

Well, I think Curry proved last playoffs that he can go for 40 any given night. Lee isn't a scoring machine, he is a double double machine.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:20 PM
You quote my post saying Harden will still average his 25 ppg, he will just work extremely hard to do it, nothing will be easy, and he won't be as efficient as he normally is, than you write 'act like he will completely shut down Harden like some scrub'. Don't think anyone said that actually.

And the proof that you cannot run an offense through Dwight is pretty evident in watching him play. Scoring 20 points doesn't mean you are a guy you can feed the ball to and run offense through. He simply doesn't have the necessary skills.

He is a top 5 player when healthy for a lot of reasons, being a guy you can pitch the ball to on the block to create offense is not one of them.

In 2009 he was the most efficient post scorer in the league.

Just wait for him to get healthy again.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 08:20 PM
Lee can score as good as nearly every PF in this league sans about 4-5.

DanG
08-03-2013, 08:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaahcDNJNuo

Not enough. He was the reason Houston didn't get past OKC.

steveweve
08-03-2013, 08:23 PM
In 2009 he was the most efficient post scorer in the league.

Just wait for him to get healthy again.

That was 4 years ago man.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:25 PM
That was 4 years ago man.

He was hyper efficient in the post in 2010 as well. The years it slipped were the injury years.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 08:26 PM
In 2009 he was the most efficient post scorer in the league.

Just wait for him to get healthy again.

Dwight was never a good back the basket post scorer and he still isn't. If he gets the ball deep enough he just overpowers his opponent for his 2 points but he doesn't have post skills, and you can't post him up on the block, you need to run high screens with him and get him the ball directly under the rim so he can score through people. Theres a clear difference in the way Dwight gets his points and a guy like say Pau/Duncan get theirs. One you have to pick and choose your openings in the defense where you can feed him, the other you can feed them every single time down the court and run your offense through them until you force double teams and open up shooters (thus the Shaq/Kobe effect you will not get with Dwight/Harden, but you could get with a Pau/Duncan type scorer and Harden).

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:27 PM
Not enough. He was the reason Houston didn't get past OKC.

Yeah his 550 true shooting percentage and a ton of points is awful against the third best defensive team in the league.

Learn what random variation is. I know you either young because most high schoolers take stats or you failed stats.

Anything can happen in a six game sample. He was doing everything he normally does, except in threes. He regressed to the mean on threes. Given enough time he would have more awesome games to get to the average.


Career TS percentage is 603
Career playoff TS percentage is 599.

He's fine in the playoffs.

steveweve
08-03-2013, 08:27 PM
He was hyper efficient in the post in 2010 as well. The years it slipped were the injury years.

Yeah true, since we are playing the injury game... In reality though, both Bogut and D12 have lots to prove.

Asik's better
08-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Not enough. He was the reason Houston didn't get past OKC.

Wait what??? You need to go back and watch that series.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Dwight was never a good back the basket post scorer and he still isn't. If he gets the ball deep enough he just overpowers his opponent for his 2 points but he doesn't have post skills, and you can't post him up on the block, you need to run high screens with him and get him the ball directly under the rim so he can score through people. Theres a clear difference in the way Dwight gets his points and a guy like say Pau/Duncan get theirs. One you have to pick and choose your openings in the defense where you can feed him, the other you can feed them every single time down the court until you force double teams and open up shooters.

It must be painful to watch Dwight get the ball in the post and have him dunk it and have him do it a lot. I can see why you think that hurts his ability to impact a game. Especially when he had one of the highest double teamed rates in the league.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:29 PM
Yeah true, since we are playing the injury game... In reality though, both Bogut and D12 have lots to prove.

Bogut's elbow got ****ed. Doubt he can ever be an impact player on offense. He's an amazing player though in 2/3 of the game.

steveweve
08-03-2013, 08:31 PM
Bogut's elbow got ****ed. Doubt he can ever be an impact player on offense. He's an amazing player though in 2/3 of the game.

Yeah. Warriors just need him to put up around 7-10 points a game, which shouldn't be hard if he is on the floor (he will get open looks). What they need from him is that defensive anchor, that's what he brings to the table.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 08:32 PM
It must be painful to watch Dwight get the ball in the post and have him dunk it and have him do it a lot. I can see why you think that hurts his ability to impact a game. Especially when he had one of the highest double teamed rates in the league.

Its not painful, but Dwight is never going to form an inside-out Kobe-Shaq type combo with Harden for the reasons I mentioned. He can be an efficient dunker all he wants but he's not going to get the ball with the back to the basket on the inside block and put the moves on you until you are forced to double, than kick it out to the perimeter 'Kobe' (in this case Harden). That was my original point. They are not going to be an unguardable duo where you are forced to pick your poison. I gave Dwight his due as a top 5 player when healthy so there is no need for your hyperbolizing of my posts.

Put away the stat sheet and let your eyes do the talking for once. Dwight's efficient scoring doesn't mean you can feed him down there the same way Tyson Chandler's doesn't. Dwight needs to wait for openings. Pau/Duncan type post players create openings.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:37 PM
Its not painful, but Dwight is never going to form an inside-out Kobe-Shaq type combo with Harden for the reasons I mentioned. He can be an efficient dunker all he wants but he's not going to get the ball with the back to the basket on the inside block and put the moves on you until you are forced to double, than kick it out to the perimeter 'Kobe' (in this case Harden). That was my original point. They are not going to be an unguardable duo where you are forced to pick your poison. I gave Dwight his due as a top 5 player when healthy so there is no need for your hyperbolizing of my posts.

Put away the stat sheet and let your eyes do the talking for once. Dwight's efficient scoring doesn't mean you can feed him down there the same way Tyson Chandler's doesn't. Dwight needs to wait for openings. Pau/Duncan type post players create openings.

Dwight doesn't get his points in a similar manner as Chandler. He really is an efficient scorer in the post. Hook shots and dunk. He just looks clumsy in the post and it makes people underrate his ability to create and score his own offense. Dwight does create his own offense. He's not just a putback, offensive rebounding machine, which he can be though.

Leftcoast_yg
08-03-2013, 08:40 PM
Parsons defense is pretty good, as is Patrick Beverly, and oh yea that one guy Asik...

Like most of us in here i still take the dubs over the rockets. Beverly cant handle Curry, Parsons is a new booty and is not ready for playoff bball as much as the dubs playera are. Where was he at against the thunder??? Asik well is Asik lol

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:41 PM
Like most of us in here i still take the dubs over the rockets. Beverly cant handle Curry, Parsons is a new booty and is not ready for playoff bball as much as the dubs playera are. Where was he at against the thunder??? Asik well is Asik lol

12 > 12

goldenstater
08-03-2013, 08:43 PM
well both teams are gonna a much larger target on their backs this year. id say the healthy both teams have a lot of fire power so imo a seven game series might come down to who is more mentally tough throughout the series. im a Dubs fans so ill refrain from making a guess, im def rooting for the Rockets more than most of the other teams in the west though don't really have a problem with them or D.Howard. there is a lot of really good teams in the west. playoffs should be fun next year again. i hope the Warriors are part of it again.

I Rock Shaqs
08-03-2013, 08:44 PM
You quote my post saying Harden will still average his 25 ppg, he will just work extremely hard to do it, nothing will be easy, and he won't be as efficient as he normally is, than you write 'act like he will completely shut down Harden like some scrub'. Don't think anyone said that actually.

And the proof that you cannot run an offense through Dwight is pretty evident in watching him play. Scoring 20 points doesn't mean you are a guy you can feed the ball to and run offense through. He simply doesn't have the necessary skills.

He is a top 5 player when healthy for a lot of reasons, being a guy you can pitch the ball to on the block to create offense is not one of them.

Dude you have a MAJOR problem with putting words in other people's mouths no homo , that's twice now that you told me what I said when I clearly didn't say either one.

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 08:48 PM
Like most of us in here i still take the dubs over the rockets. Beverly cant handle Curry, Parsons is a new booty and is not ready for playoff bball as much as the dubs playera are. Where was he at against the thunder??? Asik well is Asik lol

Parsons averaged 18+ points in the playoffs, and had some huge plays what are you talking about? Know what you talk about before you say it.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 08:50 PM
Dude you have a MAJOR problem with putting words in other people's mouths no homo , that's twice now that you told me what I said when I clearly didn't say either one.

Please point out these two instances because I'm pretty sure you were the one hyperbolizing my posts (and everyone else's posts who said Iggy will give Harden a ton of problems).

goldenstater
08-03-2013, 08:50 PM
i do believe Howard will have a monster year this year, just didn't seem comfortable in LA at all and not healthy. i think him being in a place he wants to be in with a smaller media market( although still pretty large) and getting healthy will be huge for him. im just not sure personally he will ever be a clutch player but maybe he doesnt need to with harden there.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 08:51 PM
I just reread and there was not one instance I 'put words in your mouth'. I wrote exactly what you posted in my own response to your post.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 08:53 PM
Dwight doesn't get his points in a similar manner as Chandler. He really is an efficient scorer in the post. Hook shots and dunk. He just looks clumsy in the post and it makes people underrate his ability to create and score his own offense. Dwight does create his own offense. He's not just a putback, offensive rebounding machine, which he can be though.

Dwight's post game is elementary at best. Combine that mediocre post game with an offensive rebounding putback machine and you have a glorified, physically dominant Tyson Chandler who can hit the occasional baby hook and find ways to get you a hyper efficient 18-20 ppg. Still not a guy you can run an offense through. Still not a guy you can form a deadly inside out combo with. But is a guy who makes top 5 impact on the game when healthy, we agree there.

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 08:54 PM
Not enough. He was the reason Houston didn't get past OKC.

He was the reason the Rockets got to be in the playoffs.

shep33
08-03-2013, 09:00 PM
I think the big advantage that people haven't mentioned is that the Warriors last year slowed down Harden pretty well. Now they have Iggy too.

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 09:12 PM
I think the big advantage that people haven't mentioned is that the Warriors last year slowed down Harden pretty well. Now they have Iggy too.

21.5ppg last year against the dubs....

The AI thing is true, he averages 18.5 ppg against the nuggets.

Not a BIG advantage bro

Scoots
08-03-2013, 09:18 PM
Barnes AND Thompson are certainly better than Parsons. Barnes is better than Parsons by himself.

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 09:21 PM
Barnes AND Thompson are certainly better than Parsons. Barnes is better than Parsons by himself.

That's nonsense. Look at the stats if you want, the eye test if you want, Parsons is better than both of those players.

goku
08-03-2013, 09:26 PM
Rockets beat the warriors pretty handily 3/4 games last season and added D12 who I expect to be healthy and playing well since he is a place he wants to be warriors did add Iggy which is a nice pick up ...I just don't think Bogut will be healthy and or possibly lee those too are injury prone..... its a 6-7 game series both teams at full strength though

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 09:26 PM
Rockets-fan is right.

goku
08-03-2013, 09:28 PM
Barnes AND Thompson are certainly better than Parsons. Barnes is better than Parsons by himself.

yall underrate parsons he has improved mightily since his first season and possibly will into this season

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 09:31 PM
I would take Parsons over Barnes and Thompson. I think Barnes might have potential to be the better player down the line though.

Bostonjorge
08-03-2013, 09:34 PM
Warriors players seem to fit better for team play. Even though rockets have the best player in series no debate unless Howard has truly fallen off. After that

Harden, curry are about equal slight edge to harden

Klay, Barnes, parsons are all equal all have case

Warriors still have AI, lee and bogut

Warriors in 6

BenFrank
08-03-2013, 09:39 PM
If i'm not mistaken, Rockets vs Warriors last season record was 3-1 Rockets, and that's when the Rockets was the youngest team in the league, U add a Healthy Howard to that team, and the only loss is Delfino..

Houston will always be under-rated, every year the Rockets make other fan bases put there foot in there mouth

Golden State is looking like our new Rivals tho

tr3ymill3r
08-03-2013, 10:03 PM
I think the other big thing everyone is forgetting is the fact that Asik is coming off the bench and is an excellent rim defender. The Rockets have the potential of having a rim presence for the entire game, not many if any other teams can say that. I know Curry and Thompson are excellent shooters, but they won't be hot all 7 games, while defense never quits and is based on will and desire. The Rockets will actually play defense this year, while the Warriors will resort to fouling in order to prevent themselves from going into the record book. Rockets win the series in a dog fight.

Scoots
08-03-2013, 11:55 PM
The Warriors have Ezeli on the bench and his D is really coming along, they also have the aged, but recently healthy O'Neal who is a good defensive players.

The Warriors have a much better bench and a comparable starting 5.

It would be tough, but I'd choose the Ws.

sagemania
08-04-2013, 12:01 AM
Like most of us in here i still take the dubs over the rockets. Beverly cant handle Curry, Parsons is a new booty and is not ready for playoff bball as much as the dubs playera are. Where was he at against the thunder??? Asik well is Asik lol

Parsons was one of the Rockets best players and Asik played quiet well. WTF are you talking about?

sagemania
08-04-2013, 12:04 AM
The Warriors have Ezeli on the bench and his D is really coming along, they also have the aged, but recently healthy O'Neal who is a good defensive players.

The Warriors have a much better bench and a comparable starting 5.

It would be tough, but I'd choose the Ws.

The Rockets have 48 minutes of elite rim protection. Ezeli and Bogut are nowhere near Howard/Asik combo interms of interior defense/rebounding.

JeremiahWing
08-04-2013, 12:04 AM
Warriors run 'em off the court in 5.

sagemania
08-04-2013, 12:06 AM
Warriors run 'em off the court in 5.

Considering Houston led the league in fast break points, led the league in 3pt shot mades and had the second best offense in the entire leage, good luck with that.

flea
08-04-2013, 12:10 AM
Considering Houston led the league in fast break points, led the league in 3pt shot mades and had the second best offense in the entire leage, good luck with that.

28th in defense though. That's worse than pourous - it's basically having 5 Carmelo Anthonys on the floor on defense.

rockets-fan
08-04-2013, 12:14 AM
28th in defense though. That's worse than pourous - it's basically having 5 Carmelo Anthonys on the floor on defense.

Top 12 defense with Asik on the floor I believe, now you have Howard and Asik, defense will be better, not good but better

3RDASYSTEM
08-04-2013, 12:22 AM
on paper, the Rockets have the league's best duo (the league's best SG and best C). Then you put Parsons with them along with some shooters and you got a team that's hard to beat...i don't care how good Curry is. but then again, I'm a rockets fan so i may be a little bias.

On paper translates to the court more times than not,rather they win the title or not

HOWARD makes rockets contenders regardless what outside or inside experts say, a allnba duo is lethal in the nba in any era for most part

IGGY to me is not a game changer, good defender i'll give you but nothing to gameplan for exclusively, only CURRY is to me and if IVERSON didn't win a title as lone scorer/shooter he wont either, if healthy the rockets easily win 55+, I mean easily

sagemania
08-04-2013, 12:23 AM
28th in defense though. That's worse than pourous - it's basically having 5 Carmelo Anthonys on the floor on defense.

Houston's game plan was that they will out score you and for the most part it worked well.Now with the addition of Howard, that will almost mean 48 minutes of rim protection/elite rebounding with Howard and Asik and on offense they will now finally have someone who can score in the post to go with their deadly perimeter scorers This will mean the leaguers best BALANCED offense. They will beat teams from the outside or from the inside.

Houston was an interior scorer away from easily beating the Thunder and contending with the Spurs last season and hopefully a healthy Howard will help them take that next step. Lets not forget the Rockets were one 3pt away from breaking the alltime record in 3pt mades in a game against the Warriors and had a easy 3-1 series win. With Howard now they will be more balanced..

Scoots
08-04-2013, 12:57 AM
That's nonsense. Look at the stats if you want, the eye test if you want, Parsons is better than both of those players.

I said Barnes AND Thompson as in both of them together. With less conviction I also believe Barnes is better than Parsons because Barnes was a rookie and the 6th offensive option on his team his stats mean less than Parsons do in evaluating them for this coming post season but the trend is certainly up.

flea
08-04-2013, 01:15 AM
Houston's game plan was that they will out score you and for the most part it worked well.Now with the addition of Howard, that will almost mean 48 minutes of rim protection/elite rebounding with Howard and Asik and on offense they will now finally have someone who can score in the post to go with their deadly perimeter scorers This will mean the leaguers best BALANCED offense. They will beat teams from the outside or from the inside.

Houston was an interior scorer away from easily beating the Thunder and contending with the Spurs last season and hopefully a healthy Howard will help them take that next step. Lets not forget the Rockets were one 3pt away from breaking the alltime record in 3pt mades in a game against the Warriors and had a easy 3-1 series win. With Howard now they will be more balanced..

You are seriously dreaming with all this ****. The Rockets got exposed in the playoffs, and Dwight wasn't any better in LA. If he's healthy and if the Rockets cast improves they might have an outside shot at WCF. But let's not kid ourselves, this isn't really a competing team yet.

UnWantedTheory
08-04-2013, 01:28 AM
Warriors in 6 imo.

RockBearStro
08-04-2013, 01:53 AM
Lets not forget Rockets tore up warriors 3-1 this past season! u got iggy we got Dwight....chiiiiiild please!#kissthebaby

Jtirado16
08-04-2013, 01:54 AM
Howard is only a top 5 center not tbe best. He may be the best on defense but definitely not on offense. In this series I would say Warriors in 6 just outshoot the Rockets

RockBearStro
08-04-2013, 01:58 AM
You are seriously dreaming with all this ****. The Rockets got exposed in the playoffs, and Dwight wasn't any better in LA. If he's healthy and if the Rockets cast improves they might have an outside shot at WCF. But let's not kid ourselves, this isn't really a competing team yet.

Its so a competing team! All rockets lacked last year was an inside presence...something warriors had with Bogut, Lee, Landry. We had ASik who's offensive game is still ions away but good defensively. Look out for our young 4's D-mo n Jones they are really gonna surprise some skeptics

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 02:24 AM
Like most of us in here i still take the dubs over the rockets. Beverly cant handle Curry, Parsons is a new booty and is not ready for playoff bball as much as the dubs playera are. Where was he at against the thunder??? Asik well is Asik lol

What!?!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHTGnxoGBBA

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 02:24 AM
lol @ all the puerile that said you can't run the offense through Howard. Didn't Orlando reached the final with their offense running through Howard?

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 02:27 AM
Rockets beat the warriors pretty handily 3/4 games last season and added D12 who I expect to be healthy and playing well since he is a place he wants to be warriors did add Iggy which is a nice pick up ...I just don't think Bogut will be healthy and or possibly lee those too are injury prone..... its a 6-7 game series both teams at full strength though

This. Rockets had no problem vs the warriors last year. Add Howard and AI2 to the mix and Houston is still better

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 02:34 AM
You are seriously dreaming with all this ****. The Rockets got exposed in the playoffs, and Dwight wasn't any better in LA. If he's healthy and if the Rockets cast improves they might have an outside shot at WCF. But let's not kid ourselves, this isn't really a competing team yet.

The rockets were exposed? Not really. The rockets were a few lucky plays away from winning series...most notably okc's extremely lucky and unbelievable 3 pts shot that bounced high off the rim a few times before finally going in

sagemania
08-04-2013, 02:34 AM
You are seriously dreaming with all this ****. The Rockets got exposed in the playoffs, and Dwight wasn't any better in LA. If he's healthy and if the Rockets cast improves they might have an outside shot at WCF. But let's not kid ourselves, this isn't really a competing team yet.

How did the Rockets get exposed in the playoffs? No one gave them a chance and they pushed the Thunder all the way.Also Dwight was coming off a back surgery and played with a sever busted shoulder. If you don't think with a year gone after back surgery and healed shoulder he wont be better this season then you are the one dreaming.

tp13baby
08-04-2013, 02:35 AM
You guys are clearly forgetting how much of a beast Howard is when he is healthy, not talking Laker healthy but Orlando Healthy and Patrick Beverely plays great defense and would be able to limit CUrry a bit and you are also underrating Parsons like crazy he would tear Thompson up.

Tear Thompson up? In what sense? Thompson has one of the fastest releases in the game. He tore Iggy up in the series. Iggy controlled Harden very well throughout the season.

I take the Dubs. Howard if determined would have great games against Bogut, even though Bogut defensively is underrated. I think it comes down to Iggy guarding Harden, Can't stop Curry from getting shots off, and Barnes and Thompson being too much for Parsons to control. Not to mention Lee is too much for Asik.

sagemania
08-04-2013, 02:39 AM
Tear Thompson up? In what sense? Thompson has one of the fastest releases in the game. He tore Iggy up in the series. Iggy controlled Harden very well throughout the season.

I take the Dubs. Howard if determined would have great games against Bogut, even though Bogut defensively is underrated. I think it comes down to Iggy guarding Harden, Can't stop Curry from getting shots off, and Barnes and Thompson being too much for Parsons to control. Not to mention Lee is too much for Asik.
On what planet will Asik be guarding Lee?. Why would the Rockets force Asik to guard Lee? It will probably be Jones and Montijunes. On defense Lee is a turnstyle so Houston can easily take advantage of his suspect defense.

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 02:45 AM
On what planet will Asik be guarding Lee?. Why would the Rockets force Asik to guard Lee? It will probably be Jones and Montijunes. On defense Lee is a turnstyle so Houston can easily take advantage of his suspect defense.

Don't get me wrong, I agree Lee is an average defender at best. But to take advantage of his poor defense, you need to be a good offensive player to score on him. I just don't think theres a PF on the Rockets roster to take advantage of him. Rockets going to run the offense through DM who averaged 5 points a game last season? Warriors would love it if they did. If they play a SF at PF like Casspi, Lee is athletic enough to come out to the elbow to guard him. It's one of the things hes not horrible at defensively.

SugeKnight
08-04-2013, 02:49 AM
The nuggets also beat the warriors 3-1 in the regular season. Regular season matchups aren't always indicative of how the playoffs would unfold. If u remember, the rockets had a chance to catch the warriors and decide their own fate in the last game of their matchup. Warriors smacked that *** on Houston's home court. I believe that was the only game that Bogut played in too.

Both teams got better, but as a warrior fan, I'd be really excited to see a series with the rockets in the playoffs because we match up very well vs them. Harden has historically struggled vs iggy. Bogut is a big body and will limit Howard's impact, and have his own impact on defense.

Rockets have no answers for the splash bros or David Lee.

Harden will be exhausted being hounded by one of iggy, Thompson, or Douglas for the entire series.

I'm not sold on Beverley as a starter and even less convinced with Lin, who will get torched by Curry whenever he guards him.

The rockets bench is pretty weak too.

They have no power forward. Speights and Lee will kill Asik in pick in pop.

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 03:09 AM
Don't get me wrong but Lee is an average defender at best. But to take advantage of his poor defense, you need to be a good offensive player to score on him. I just don't think theres a PF on the Rockets roster to take advantage of him. Rockets going to run the offense through DM who averaged 5 points a game last season? Warriors would love it if they did. If they play a SF at PF like Casspi, Lee is athletic enough to come out to the elbow to guard him. It's one of the things hes not horrible at defensively.

You obviously don't know who D-Mo is. The guy has one of the best post games in the NBA. The only problem with him last year was his strength, which is why he spent half of the season in the d-league. There's a reason Daryl Morey and Rockets arent in a rush to trade Asik for a PF. We might not have to.

rockets-fan
08-04-2013, 03:20 AM
You obviously don't know who D-Mo is. The guy has one of the best post games in the NBA. The only problem with him last year was his strength, which is why he spent half of the season in the d-league. There's a reason Daryl Morey and Rockets arent in a rush to trade Asik for a PF. We might not have to.


Love DMOs game, I'd be fine with him at the four for us

Bostonjorge
08-04-2013, 03:24 AM
The nuggets also beat the warriors 3-1 in the regular season. Regular season matchups aren't always indicative of how the playoffs would unfold. If u remember, the rockets had a chance to catch the warriors and decide their own fate in the last game of their matchup. Warriors smacked that *** on Houston's home court. I believe that was the only game that Bogut played in too.

Both teams got better, but as a warrior fan, I'd be really excited to see a series with the rockets in the playoffs because we match up very well vs them. Harden has historically struggled vs iggy. Bogut is a big body and will limit Howard's impact, and have his own impact on defense.

Rockets have no answers for the splash bros or David Lee.

Harden will be exhausted being hounded by one of iggy, Thompson, or Douglas for the entire series.

I'm not sold on Beverley as a starter and even less convinced with Lin, who will get torched by Curry whenever he guards him.

The rockets bench is pretty weak too.

They have no power forward. Speights and Lee will kill Asik in pick in pop.

I'm now going warriors in 4

Asik's better
08-04-2013, 04:06 AM
People are going to be really surprised how well jones and Dmo are going to play this season. It's really obvious reading through these replies that a lot of people on this forum didnt watch a lot of rockets games and don't know alot about the rockets players. Any person who thinks if these two teams meet in the playoffs and it would go less than 7 games are kidding themselves

shep33
08-04-2013, 05:09 AM
21.5ppg last year against the dubs....

The AI thing is true, he averages 18.5 ppg against the nuggets.

Not a BIG advantage bro

Yeah but Harden shot 37.5%, 17.6%, and 31.8% in 3 of 4 of those games. The other game was a blowout where he shot 5-11


Thompson and Barnes did a great job on him throughout the year. Iggy does a good job too, and can probably even be put on Parsons if Klay/Barnes continue to do what they did.

Dwight is the big plus for Houston in this matchup... Although if Bogut is healthy he can at least get under his skin, as has JO in the past. But still, D12 would probably dominate them

Minimal
08-04-2013, 06:09 AM
Warriors. They are so well balanced now, I like their chances more.

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 07:11 AM
You obviously don't know who D-Mo is. The guy has one of the best post games in the NBA. The only problem with him last year was his strength, which is why he spent half of the season in the d-league. There's a reason Daryl Morey and Rockets arent in a rush to trade Asik for a PF. We might not have to.

I dont know him that well but if the Rockets want to run the offense through him and force feed him each possession like the Warriors used Barnes in the playoffs then I would welcome it. I'd take my chances on Lee stopping him over Bogut stopping Dwight or Thompson/AI stopping Harden.

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 08:08 AM
The nuggets also beat the warriors 3-1 in the regular season. Regular season matchups aren't always indicative of how the playoffs would unfold. If u remember, the rockets had a chance to catch the warriors and decide their own fate in the last game of their matchup. Warriors smacked that *** on Houston's home court. I believe that was the only game that Bogut played in too.

Both teams got better, but as a warrior fan, I'd be really excited to see a series with the rockets in the playoffs because we match up very well vs them. Harden has historically struggled vs iggy. Bogut is a big body and will limit Howard's impact, and have his own impact on defense.

Rockets have no answers for the splash bros or David Lee.

Harden will be exhausted being hounded by one of iggy, Thompson, or Douglas for the entire series.

I'm not sold on Beverley as a starter and even less convinced with Lin, who will get torched by Curry whenever he guards him.

The rockets bench is pretty weak too.

They have no power forward. Speights and Lee will kill Asik in pick in pop.

how do you figure that? cause the record and stats says otherwise. and with the record and stats in mind, Houston arguably got A LOT better with Howard than GSW did with Iguodala so.....:shrug:

chipurmunki
08-04-2013, 08:24 AM
o geeze... gs fans are so delusional! they have nothing on the rockets.

Guppyfighter
08-04-2013, 08:40 AM
o geeze... gs fans are so delusional! they have nothing on the rockets.

Quotes form Chip

On the start of the season last year


1. okc
2. grizz
3. jazz
4. clippers
5. spurs
6. lakers
7. twimps
8. dallas

dallas and denver, i think, will be in by default. look at everyone who was close this last year and missed out by a small handful of games: phoenix, houston, portland and minnesota. phoenix and houston are scrapping their teams and starting over. minnesota has made some good deals and look to improve, and portland hasn't done much and didn't draft particularly well. everyone else sucks and have no hope this year. few teams in the west are significantly improving, and the great teams are staying put. utah has done the best, imo, of any middling team at getting better. the grizz is so high because they had the same problems we had- being young. another year and the team largely intact will accelerate their progression.

EDIT: i forgot that the division winners are guaranteed no lower than 4th seed. i've been thinking the spurs were fixing to fade for the last 4 years now, and they haven't. this is their year. i think the lakers are going to do what they did a few years ago and underwhelm. clips are primed to take the next step, imo, and they'll take the division. i think the grizz have arrived and okc will maintain their status quo a year wiser. i see a changing of the guard with grizz and utah taking the place of spurs and lakers sooner rather than later.

In regards to how well they will do in November



i agree with the 13-4 prediction. i think we'll win some against the better teams, might lose 1 or 2 against the weaker teams. i predict we'll lose to okc, and either boston or sa (not both), and one on that road trip and one more at home somewhere. i think we're too deep for the faggers to handle and we do play well vs memphis. everyone else i'm not too worried about, if at all.

i always wanna give utah the benefit of the doubt. 6 losses is realistic, but i'm holding out faith that we beat s.a. and lakers and boston. i call a loss vs memphis (tough road trip), lose vs philly (again, tough road trip), lose the 2nd game vs sacramento (2nd in back-to-back vs them), and against okc. i think we're deeper than la, deeper than sa, deeper than boston and mostly i think we'll be fine in back-2-back games and 3 games in 4 nights because of our depth, and i think we'll have the chemistry to hang in there with the good teams.

likemystylez
08-04-2013, 09:15 AM
HAHAHA owned- not one to be calling anybody dilusional

likemystylez
08-04-2013, 09:18 AM
o geeze... gs fans are so delusional! they have nothing on the rockets.

They have a far better PG, a better Power Forward, better perimeter defense, and a better bench. I think both teams match up pretty well- IM not sure why this is such a far out conversation in your mind.

dodie53
08-04-2013, 09:47 AM
warriors in 6

alexander_37
08-04-2013, 09:58 AM
Thomson is a good defender. He plays kobe good and in these playoffs he played Parker really good. Thomson would not have trouble with parsons. U could give Howard and harden best 2 players in series but after that.

1. Howard
2. Harden
2a. Curry
4. AI
5. Thomson
5a. Barnes
7. Lee
8. Parsons
9. Bogut
10. Lin

No asik? lulz

alexander_37
08-04-2013, 10:04 AM
I think everyone here is forgetting the fact that the only player on this team that even started a game for them before last season is Parsons. Harden was acquired during the season so he has never even had an offseason to work with the team till now. Add in a top 5 player in the league when healthy along with giving Lin, Parsons, and Harden time to work together with Howard. They will be better than before without Howard, and they should be far better with him

tr3ymill3r
08-04-2013, 10:17 AM
GS fans think they are getting the 76er Iggy and think the Rockets are getting the LA Dwight. The difference is Iggy was healthy all season long while Dwight was hurt all season long. Warriors will be a 4-6 seed while the Rockets are a top 3 seed. The Rockets won the head to head matchup last season and added a better player than the Warriors did. GS fans have been hereby banned from posting idiotic and moronic thoughts and they should be approved by a mod before they are posted.

Goose17
08-04-2013, 10:51 AM
GS fans think they are getting the 76er Iggy

No we don't. Or at least I don't. I think I'm getting the Iggy from last year, the Iggy that was by far the best perimeter defender in the league behind Lebron (no other wing even came close to Iggy or Bron).

kblo247
08-04-2013, 11:01 AM
Parsons averaged 18+ points in the playoffs, and had some huge plays what are you talking about? Know what you talk about before you say it.barnes averaged 17ppg vs SA. The tier between Parsons, Klay, and Barnes isn't that varied. The fact is Steph finished the year much better than Harden last year. Yes Beverly, Lin, and Asik are competent, but all things healthy Lee and Bogut will impact games more. I just don't see any way they beat GS in a 7 game series with Asik and Dwigh, Jackson would and should hack them both with JO, Speights, and EZili. I ain't mentioned Iggy yet. Dwight can't be the Dwight who played on the lakers and stunk in the post and at the line, he has to be Orlando Dwight, and even then they have to get something for Asik.

flea
08-04-2013, 11:06 AM
How did the Rockets get exposed in the playoffs? No one gave them a chance and they pushed the Thunder all the way.Also Dwight was coming off a back surgery and played with a sever busted shoulder. If you don't think with a year gone after back surgery and healed shoulder he wont be better this season then you are the one dreaming.

They didn't push a short-handed Thunder all the way, they were out in 6. When I said they got exposed I meant it became painfully obvious how to beat them. Harden shot below 40% for the series and had the same number of turnover as assists. Close the paint, guard the P&R, and make him shoot and you see what happens to his numbers.

alexander_37
08-04-2013, 11:10 AM
barnes averaged 17ppg vs SA. The tier between Parsons, Klay, and Barnes isn't that varied. The fact is Steph finished the year much better than Harden last year. Yes Beverly, Lin, and Asik are competent, but all things healthy Lee and Bogut will impact games more. I just don't see any way they beat GS in a 7 game series with Asik and Dwigh, Jackson would and should hack them both with JO, Speights, and EZili. I ain't mentioned Iggy yet. Dwight can't be the Dwight who played on the lakers and stunk in the post and at the line, he has to be Orlando Dwight, and even then they have to get something for Asik.

Super homer alert.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-04-2013, 11:15 AM
Warriors with a healthy Curry.

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 11:20 AM
They didn't push a short-handed Thunder all the way, they were out in 6. When I said they got exposed I meant it became painfully obvious how to beat them. Harden shot below 40% for the series and had the same number of turnover as assists. Close the paint, guard the P&R, and make him shoot and you see what happens to his numbers.

:pity: at LA fans trying to rewrite history. fact of the matter is, with the exception of game 1, every game of the series was extremely close even before Westbrook got injured. each of the games were decided by an average of 4 points...and each game was played to the wire and could've gone either way...i don't know where you got this idea that the Rockets were "exposed" in the playoffs. as far as Harden's efficiency, FG% is only part of the story. His TS% was 55% which is pretty good.

and again guys...Houston got GSW's number last year beating GSW 3 out of 4 games. with that in mind, the Rockets got exponentially better with Dwight Howard versus GSW who only got slightly better with Iguodala. you tell me who will in in a 7 games series?

bucketss
08-04-2013, 11:26 AM
Tear him up as in....dropping 16-18 points? I think Dubs will live with that if Harden's life is miserable and he's working tremendously hard to get his 25.

Howard is a beast but you can't run an offense through him.

why not.. its been done before and worked pretty well.

Dade County
08-04-2013, 11:33 AM
on paper, the Rockets have the league's best duo (the league's best SG and best C). Then you put Parsons with them along with some shooters and you got a team that's hard to beat...i don't care how good Curry is. but then again, I'm a rockets fan so i may be a little bias.

Wade is better then harden when healthy (check out Wade stats when he was healthy last season)... And the best duo in the league is Wade & Lb (when healthy).

On topic:

I guess I still don't respect the Warriors enough for some reason, because I am leaning towards Houston. I think jack was a very big part of the warriors now he is with the Cav's.

3RDASYSTEM
08-04-2013, 11:38 AM
GS fans think they are getting the 76er Iggy and think the Rockets are getting the LA Dwight. The difference is Iggy was healthy all season long while Dwight was hurt all season long. Warriors will be a 4-6 seed while the Rockets are a top 3 seed. The Rockets won the head to head matchup last season and added a better player than the Warriors did. GS fans have been hereby banned from posting idiotic and moronic thoughts and they should be approved by a mod before they are posted.

They are getting the 76ers version, once again thanks for mentioning this as it makes my case once again

you are who you are as a player, IGGY caught a lot more oops playing with the original AI so of course his ppg were at his highest, he made the all star team avg 12ppg 2yrs ago

that's all he is outside of good perimeter defense and do you really trust him to run the offense when he only can avg 12ppg? I want a more capable playmaker-creator handling the ball(see CURRY)

the non understanding of a players game and impact is a all time highest level

flea
08-04-2013, 11:53 AM
that's all he is outside of good perimeter defense and do you really trust him to run the offense when he only can avg 12ppg? I want a more capable playmaker-creator handling the ball(see CURRY)

Scoring has nothing to do with ability to run an offense. Some of the best PGs in history were not scorers. I'm not saying Iggy should run the offense the majority of the time or anything, but if he takes 1/3 or so of the possessions he's on the floor he can be really valuable as a point forward when you have a PG that is also the best shooter in the league.

SugeKnight
08-04-2013, 11:54 AM
how do you figure that? cause the record and stats says otherwise. and with the record and stats in mind, Houston arguably got A LOT better with Howard than GSW did with Iguodala so.....:shrug:

Read my post again. That's how I figure

Monta is beast
08-04-2013, 12:03 PM
Simple game plan for the Warriors. Put Iguodala on Harden, Thompson on Parson, and Bogut on Howard. To the dude who said Beverly can shut Curry down, all the Warriors would have to do is start running Curry off screens, and iso Lee in the post. We have too many weapons for the Rockets, more depth, more diversity. Rockets are good, but not on the Warriors tier.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 12:11 PM
Iggy did give Harden a hard time last season, but people seem to forget Harden not even 24 yet and still gettting better, while Iggy is on the decline.. If u don't think Harden will get better from last year, by not having a total defense focused on mainly him... and his youth.. then people should get ready for a rude awakening.

showtym24
08-04-2013, 12:14 PM
Dubs in 6

alexander_37
08-04-2013, 12:16 PM
Simple game plan for the Warriors. Put Iguodala on Harden, Thompson on Parson, and Bogut on Howard. To the dude who said Beverly can shut Curry down, all the Warriors would have to do is start running Curry off screens, and iso Lee in the post. We have too many weapons for the Rockets, more depth, more diversity. Rockets are good, but not on the Warriors tier.

Oh my.....

esscobar05
08-04-2013, 01:14 PM
Are you serious? Wasn't Lee an All-Star? Didn't he lead the league in double doubles? I'd take Lee and Barnes ahead of Parsons with Thompson a smidgen below him.. Lee gets no credit at all in this league..

Htownballa1622
08-04-2013, 01:19 PM
Simple game plan for the Warriors. Put Iguodala on Harden, Thompson on Parson, and Bogut on Howard. To the dude who said Beverly can shut Curry down, all the Warriors would have to do is start running Curry off screens, and iso Lee in the post. We have too many weapons for the Rockets, more depth, more diversity. Rockets are good, but not on the Warriors tier.

Meanwhile in the real world...

Greedy22
08-04-2013, 01:20 PM
I've got warriors in 6.

Chronz
08-04-2013, 01:37 PM
If the game is played on paper, Dwight howard was ADDED to a team that already had a superior SRS than the Warriors.

Meanwhile the Warriors replaced quality reserves with Iggy. Its not like they just added him.


That said, you really have to believe in Dwight being cancerous offensively to believe Houston isnt better. They already had superior efficiency scores, shouldnt Dwight be more of a factor here? Do people see giant leaps internally with the Dubs?

esscobar05
08-04-2013, 01:48 PM
3 pt shots made!? When you are taking 40 a game you should lead the league,.. The dubs led the league in 3pt FG.. A much better stat. IF healthy? Dubs in 6.. Too much versatility for the Rockets. Too many options,, Lee, Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Iggy etc... All five of them can get 20 on any given night. Harden relies too much on getting fouled. If the dubs can avoid sending him to the line 20 times a game this would be over in 5 games..

esscobar05
08-04-2013, 01:49 PM
You have the funniest sig that I have seen in a while... LMAO!!!

3RDASYSTEM
08-04-2013, 02:08 PM
Scoring has nothing to do with ability to run an offense. Some of the best PGs in history were not scorers. I'm not saying Iggy should run the offense the majority of the time or anything, but if he takes 1/3 or so of the possessions he's on the floor he can be really valuable as a point forward when you have a PG that is also the best shooter in the league.

Well I bet some of those best PG's in history could shoot the ball or run an offense 10x better and more effective than a player known for him perimeter defense and dunking-athletic ability

I guarantee you if not all most PG's were dead eye shooters, IGGY is nowhere near a dead eye shooter nor top flight passer

are you serious and not mistaking IGGY for TMAC or something of that nature? I can see if we are talking about PIPP-G.HILL or LEBRON, but IGGY running the offense? outside of TMAC none of those players were dead eye snipers, just supreme playmakers, something IGGY dreams of being

in a 7 game series the edge goes to HOUSTON, HARDEN and HOWARD have deep postseason/FINALS experience, DUBS fans are screaming how they beat SA a couple of games when no one else accomplished that in WEST this past playoffs, i'll take the former duo to advance further

had DUBS added HOWARD and kept CURRY and another piece to form a big 3 then advantage would go to DUBS, basic bball sense

shooting and scoring pretty much go hand in hand but more on how much that player is capable of doing on individual level, DIRK shooter right? BIRD shooter right? also scorers ,NASH and STOCKTON shooters right? both could score but would prefer to pass 10 to 1, IGGY is neither a scorer or shooter, or maybe you beg to differ?

they had JACK and let him walk to take up that 1/3 if IGGY running the PG and much more with JACK, that's what you should be saying

flea
08-04-2013, 02:14 PM
Well I bet some of those best PG's in history could shoot the ball or run an offense 10x better and more effective than a player known for him perimeter defense and dunking-athletic ability

I guarantee you if not all most PG's were dead eye shooters, IGGY is nowhere near a dead eye shooter nor top flight passer

are you serious and not mistaking IGGY for TMAC or something of that nature? I can see if we are talking about PIPP-G.HILL or LEBRON, but IGGY running the offense? outside of TMAC none of those players were dead eye snipers, just supreme playmakers, something IGGY dreams of being

in a 7 game series the edge goes to HOUSTON, HARDEN and HOWARD have deep postseason/FINALS experience, DUBS fans are screaming how they beat SA a couple of games when no one else accomplished that in WEST this past playoffs, i'll take the former duo to advance further

had DUBS added HOWARD and kept CURRY and another piece to form a big 3 then advantage would go to DUBS, basic bball sense

I never said Iggy's handles were comparable to some of the best players ever to play the game. I said he's good enough to handle a few possessions, which is valuable since he's not much of a jump shooter but everyone else on the team is.

The thing I took issue with was that you seem to think shooting is necessary for having good ball-handling skills. This is not the case (see Rondo, Kidd, etc.).

3RDASYSTEM
08-04-2013, 02:31 PM
Oh my.....

I know right

IGGY cant stop HARDEN 1 on 1, HARDEN would keep him in constant foul trouble, IGGY could check PARSON's no doubt but not a all nba player from any team 1-3

THOMPSON would get murdered by PARSON's, or at worst owned he wont stop THOMPSON but he would fare a tad better or at best a wash

HOWARD will own BOGUT(if he's there by postseason)

HOWARD was the biggest fish outside of CP3 and ROCKETS bagged him

ROCKETS bagged a player who was 1a or 2nd best player in leaguewhen healthy for most part on both sides of the ball, and always a 1st team all nba player and perennial DPOY candidate since he first won the award, and he has 3 DPOY awards in 9yrs, he is almost healthy according to his quotes and he has 30million on why he will win a title in 3years with ROCKETS

win win for all parties involved

combine that with 3rd team all nba'er HARDEN and that is clearly ROCKETS advantage, on paper and on the court

Scoots
08-04-2013, 02:48 PM
Iggy isn't on the decline. Lee is an offensive force. Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green, and Ezili will improve.

The regular season head to head record of 3-1 Rockets is a bit suspect a hook to hang your hat on when neither team is anywhere near the same any longer. The Warriors were playing 4 rookies, the Rockets were learning to play together on the fly.

Playoff basketball is different than regular season ball.

I think it would be a very interesting series to see and I hope we get to see these 2 fully healthy teams fight in the playoffs.

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 02:50 PM
3 pt shots made!? When you are taking 40 a game you should lead the league,.. The dubs led the league in 3pt FG.. A much better stat. IF healthy? Dubs in 6.. Too much versatility for the Rockets. Too many options,, Lee, Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Iggy etc... All five of them can get 20 on any given night. Harden relies too much on getting fouled. If the dubs can avoid sending him to the line 20 times a game this would be over in 5 games..

Where were all of these "options" when you guys played us this year? Guess I was too busy watching the rockets win to notice these "options".

Guppyfighter
08-04-2013, 02:54 PM
Wade is better then harden when healthy (check out Wade stats when he was healthy last season)... And the best duo in the league is Wade & Lb (when healthy).

On topic:

I guess I still don't respect the Warriors enough for some reason, because I am leaning towards Houston. I think jack was a very big part of the warriors now he is with the Cav's.

Uuuh

Harden scored more points more efficiently than Wade. How exactly is Wade better.

flea
08-04-2013, 02:58 PM
Uuuh

Harden scored more points more efficiently than Wade. How exactly is Wade better.

Scoring points isn't even half of the job of a starting SG.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-04-2013, 03:09 PM
I know right

IGGY cant stop HARDEN 1 on 1, HARDEN would keep him in constant foul trouble, IGGY could check PARSON's no doubt but not a all nba player from any team 1-3

THOMPSON would get murdered by PARSON's, or at worst owned he wont stop THOMPSON but he would fare a tad better or at best a wash

HOWARD will own BOGUT(if he's there by postseason)

HOWARD was the biggest fish outside of CP3 and ROCKETS bagged him

ROCKETS bagged a player who was 1a or 2nd best player in leaguewhen healthy for most part on both sides of the ball, and always a 1st team all nba player and perennial DPOY candidate since he first won the award, and he has 3 DPOY awards in 9yrs, he is almost healthy according to his quotes and he has 30million on why he will win a title in 3years with ROCKETS

win win for all parties involved

combine that with 3rd team all nba'er HARDEN and that is clearly ROCKETS advantage, on paper and on the court

Did you just claim Dwight to be the second best player in the nba?

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-04-2013, 03:10 PM
Where were all of these "options" when you guys played us this year? Guess I was too busy watching the rockets win to notice these "options".

The rockets were busy winning what?? the 8th seed?

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 03:11 PM
Scoring points isn't even half of the job of a starting SG.

Agreed

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 03:17 PM
The rockets were busy winning what?? the 8th seed?

Busy beating the warriors.

BKLYNpigeon
08-04-2013, 03:19 PM
It would be a fun Series to watch. Warriors and Rockets got bad blood with each other.

Goose17
08-04-2013, 03:22 PM
Where were all of these "options" when you guys played us this year? Guess I was too busy watching the rockets win to notice these "options".

Forget Iggy, Klay shut down Harden last season, Iggy will kill him.

You realise we now have the best wing rotation in the West? A rotation of Iggy - Klay - Barnes - Green - Bazemore. Harden and Parsons won't know what hit them, even our worst wing players (Green and Baze) are still above average defensively even if their offense skill set is poor.

Dwight is a juggernaut defensively but considering we're a jump shooting team his rim protection is not going to have a massive effect on us. Bogut when healthy can defend Howard well enough.

So who is carrying your offense, Lin?



Depth and more talent is what it comes down too. You have Harden, Dwight and Parsons, possibly Asik if he's still around. Outside of that you don't have much in terms of high caliber players. We have Curry, Lee and Iggy as high caliber, plus Bogut, who, when he was healthy, was one of the top 5 big men in the league. And then you throw in the developed Klay and Barnes who are both going to be studs, incredible young talent and the rest of the bench Ezeli, Nedo, Douglas, O'Neal, Speights etc

I'm sorry but it's just not happening, not if full health is guaranteed. If health isn't guaranteed, that's a whole other story, but for this hypothetical it is guaranteed so....

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-04-2013, 03:23 PM
Busy beating the warriors.

Yeah you guys beat them 3/4,but the Warriors were bad *** in the playoffs.

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 03:24 PM
:pity: at LA fans trying to rewrite history. fact of the matter is, with the exception of game 1, every game of the series was extremely close even before Westbrook got injured. each of the games were decided by an average of 4 points...and each game was played to the wire and could've gone either way...i don't know where you got this idea that the Rockets were "exposed" in the playoffs. as far as Harden's efficiency, FG% is only part of the story. His TS% was 55% which is pretty good.

and again guys...Houston got GSW's number last year beating GSW 3 out of 4 games. with that in mind, the Rockets got exponentially better with Dwight Howard versus GSW who only got slightly better with Iguodala. you tell me who will in in a 7 games series?

Stop bringing up regular season head to head matchups as it has very little value. First of all the Warriors lost 3/4 to the Nuggets in the regular season and also the Warriors won the only game with where Bogut played on Houston's homecourt by 30 late in the season.

Goose17
08-04-2013, 03:25 PM
The rockets were busy winning what?? the 8th seed?

Nah bro, they were busy winning the first round... oh no, wait.

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 03:38 PM
Yeah you guys beat them 3/4,but the Warriors were bad *** in the playoffs.

I thought this was a thread about who would win a 7 game series out of the Warriors and Rockets? Not Warriors and Nuggets(Without Gallinari). I was not impress with Harrison Barnes,Klay Thompson(chucker),Green(cry baby), or Ezeli(who?) when the rockets(not the nuggets) played them.

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 03:39 PM
Nah bro, they were busy winning the first round... oh no, wait.

Congrats on the championship....oh no, wait.

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 03:41 PM
Stop bringing up regular season head to head matchups as it has very little value. First of all the Warriors lost 3/4 to the Nuggets in the regular season and also the Warriors won the only game with where Bogut played on Houston's homecourt by 30 late in the season.

Bogut played all 4 games.

Htownballa1622
08-04-2013, 03:45 PM
Let's just not play the games. Dubs would sweep the Rox by the types of things that would have to fall PERFECTLY in place and it will according to Warrior fans.

Verbal Christ
08-04-2013, 03:58 PM
Hopefully the games wont be blowouts in favor of HOU, and even more so that the Rockets aren't close to any kind of record, cuz Mark Jackson is just going to pout on the sideline and tell his players to go hack everybody so they cant shoot the ball anymore. cool story right? LOL

tredigs
08-04-2013, 04:00 PM
Where were all of these "options" when you guys played us this year? Guess I was too busy watching the rockets win to notice these "options".

I think they only played once or twice when the W's weren't hobbled. I know that in the last meeting (where both were fighting for playoff spots with 15 or so games to go), the Warriors smashed them by 30. In Houston. They also beat up on Denver in the playoffs, who you guys couldn't beat once. Then we took their best player.


Bogut played all 4 games.

He was technically in them, but it wasn't the Bogut that finished the season/playoffs.

Goose17
08-04-2013, 04:06 PM
I was not impress with Harrison Barnes,Klay Thompson(chucker),Green(cry baby), or Ezeli(who?) when the rockets(not the nuggets) played them.

LOL.

Barnes > everyone on your roster not named Harden or Dwight.

Klay > see above^

Klay, a sophomore, locked Harden down. Barnes, a rookie put on one of the best performances of the playoffs last season.

You're a joke.

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 04:13 PM
Then we took their best player.

Didn't know you guys traded for Ty Lawson!?!?! :speechless:

tredigs
08-04-2013, 04:15 PM
LOL.

Barnes > everyone on your roster not named Harden or Dwight.

Klay > see above^

Klay, a sophomore, locked Harden down. Barnes, a rookie put on one of the best performances of the playoffs last season.

You're a joke.

No, last season I'd say Parsons was better than both. He's a baller, a better playmaker than both our guys which right now is the main difference between them. But they're also both younger and imo have more upside for this season.


Didn't know you guys traded for Ty Lawson!?!?! :speechless:

I highly value game changing defenders for playoff teams. Especially ones that have just owned Harden h2h.

But it's not like Denver had a clear best player, so to each their own.

eDush
08-04-2013, 04:16 PM
Iggy on harden is a good place to start, If bogut is healthy he can keep Howard from controlling the game. Nobody on the rockets can stop curry and Lee.... and If barnes and thompson continue to get better- the warriors should take that series.

Rockets would win with Harden the best overall sg providing the scoring and DH12 with the defense, post up. It's an unstoppable duo that cannot be match by the Warriors and this is coming from a fan of GS. Just being realistic. If they can avoid playing the Rockets and hope they lose to the Spurs, then we are talking!!! GS on the road to the finals.

3RDASYSTEM
08-04-2013, 04:17 PM
LOL.

Barnes > everyone on your roster not named Harden or Dwight.

Klay > see above^

Klay, a sophomore, locked Harden down. Barnes, a rookie put on one of the best performances of the playoffs last season.

You're a joke.

Not really a joke but it depends on how you two judge/rank players

they are not impressive when judging against the best all time or top 10 players of each era but they are good players in they own right just for making the nba

BARNES is what more physically athletic than PARSONS? he sure isn't the better pure shooter and they both can create off dribble, BARNES may be better at getting off own shot but PARSONS is no slouch

and that will be the major major difference in playoff series where the best duo usually wins out

HARDEN/HOWARD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CURRY/KLAY or any CURRY combo you pick

its only really big 2's in the WEST and HOUSTON has every bit the top or 1a duo in the WEST, right there with KD/RUSS and PARKER/DUNCAN and bean/GASOL and etc.

KLAY cant and wont lock HARDEN down in a 7 game playoff series, HOWARD will make sure of that, along with MCHALE and the coaching staff, if he does lock HARDEN then HOWARD will drop 40 plus like his old ORL days against ATL

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 04:18 PM
Bogut played all 4 games.

Oh just checked and my mistake. For some reason I thought he missed 3.

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 04:20 PM
Rockets would win with Harden the best overall sg providing the scoring and DH12 with the defense, post up. It's an unstoppable duo that cannot be match by the Warriors and this is coming from a fan of GS. Just being realistic. If they can avoid playing the Rockets and hope they lose to the Spurs, then we are talking!!! GS on the road to the finals.

Yeah just like how Kobe and Dwight was an unstoppable duo. Add in Gasol, Nash and his 3 pt shooting, and Artest D then we have favorite for the nba finals.

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 04:22 PM
Not really a joke but it depends on how you two judge/rank players

they are not impressive when judging against the best all time or top 10 players of each era but they are good players in they own right just for making the nba

BARNES is what more physically athletic than PARSONS? he sure isn't the better pure shooter and they both can create off dribble, BARNES may be better at getting off own shot but PARSONS is no slouch

and that will be the major major difference in playoff series where the best duo usually wins out

HARDEN/HOWARD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CURRY/KLAY or any CURRY combo you pick

its only really big 2's in the WEST and HOUSTON has every bit the top or 1a duo in the WEST, right there with KD/RUSS and PARKER/DUNCAN and bean/GASOL and etc.

KLAY cant and wont lock HARDEN down in a 7 game playoff series, HOWARD will make sure of that, along with MCHALE and the coaching staff, if he does lock HARDEN then HOWARD will drop 40 plus like his old ORL days against ATL

its the best trio usually. you need more than 2 good players to win a playoff series

tredigs
08-04-2013, 04:22 PM
Yeah just like how Kobe and Dwight was an unstoppable duo. Add in Gasol, Nash and his 3 pt shooting, and Artest D then we have favorite for the nba finals.

Exactly what I was thinking when I read that.

clutchfan
08-04-2013, 04:22 PM
LOL.

Barnes > everyone on your roster not named Harden or Dwight.

Klay > see above^

Klay, a sophomore, locked Harden down. Barnes, a rookie put on one of the best performances of the playoffs last season.

You're a joke.

Clips of the so called lockdown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oT-3-KYt-cA

Guppyfighter
08-04-2013, 04:23 PM
Clips of the so called lockdown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oT-3-KYt-cA


He meant in the aggregate sample. Which he technically did.

tredigs
08-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Beyond that, Klay would not be the primary defender on Harden. It would be this guy:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=iguodan01&p2=hardeja01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdfr-Bj2PvM

SugeKnight
08-04-2013, 04:29 PM
This is the 3rd warriors vs rockets thread so far this offseason. I think everything that can be said has already been said. Lets wait until the Rockets get a power forward before we compare teams

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 04:31 PM
Comparing Dwight situation to the Lakers/Kobe to the Rockets/Harden sound like someone looking for a way to make a point that is not valid..

Rockets
Coach: Big Man coach who wants to run the offense through Dwight
Team: Youngest team in the League last year, who will only grow, and Dwight can be a leader on

Lakers
Coach: Wants a shot off in the First 7 seconds, had no respect for Dwight as a Leader
Team: Mostly guys past there prime's (at the time) Artest, Gasol, Nash, Kobe.. (who is a lone leader)

It's like trying to compare water with milk.. it's not the same

tredigs
08-04-2013, 04:36 PM
Comparing Dwight situation to the Lakers/Kobe to the Rockets/Harden sound like someone looking for a way to make a point that is not valid..

Rockets
Coach: Big Man coach who wants to run the offense through Dwight
Team: Youngest team in the League last year, who will only grow, and Dwight can be a leader on

Lakers
Coach: Wants a shot off in the First 7 seconds, had no respect for Dwight as a Leader
Team: Mostly guys past there prime's (at the time) Artest, Gasol, Nash, Kobe.. (who is a lone leader)

It's like trying to compare water with milk.. it's not the same
So, experienced team with veteran leadership who know how to win versus youngest team in the league that has a suspect coach. And may want to run the offense through a non playmaking center rather than one of the more efficient scoring/playmaking guards in the game. Gotchya.

By the way, Rockets were fastest paced team in the NBA.

I'm not saying it can't or won't work, but you didn't do a very good job convincing me here.

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 04:38 PM
Also, does anyone agree on this?

I think Harden's passing ability might be getting to the point where its going to get overrated. He averaged 5.8 assists while averaging 3.8 turnovers. I really don't think hes as good of a passer as his assists numbers indicate. They were due to playing fast pace and basically trying to run the opponent out of the game every game. Now you add in Dwight, and the Rockets will slow down their offense. Harden is a decent passer but definitely not on the Chris Paul level so anyone expecting the best nba duo with the best scoring SG and "best" C might be surprised. Anyone else curious to see Harden's numbers when running the PnR with Dwight or in the half court game getting the ball to Dwight (which Houston will run more of this season)?

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 04:41 PM
Comparing Dwight situation to the Lakers/Kobe to the Rockets/Harden sound like someone looking for a way to make a point that is not valid..

Rockets
Coach: Big Man coach who wants to run the offense through Dwight
Team: Youngest team in the League last year, who will only grow, and Dwight can be a leader on

Lakers
Coach: Wants a shot off in the First 7 seconds, had no respect for Dwight as a Leader
Team: Mostly guys past there prime's (at the time) Artest, Gasol, Nash, Kobe.. (who is a lone leader)

It's like trying to compare water with milk.. it's not the same

Dwight as a leader ?!?!?!?! :facepalm:

Pringles wasnt the coach the entire year.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 04:41 PM
So, experienced team with veteran leadership who know how to win versus youngest team in the league that has a suspect coach. And may want to run the offense through a non playmaking center rather than one of the more efficient scoring/playmaking guards in the game. Gotchya.

By the way, Rockets were fastest paced team in the NBA.

I'm not saying it can't or won't work, but you didn't do a very good job convincing me here.

A experiance team with no Chemistry, vs the Youngest Team in the league with a Ton Chemistry that finished with the same record, who is more likely to make progress?

If u ask me, Mchale was a better coach than Dantoni last year..

When the offense ran thru Dwight in Orlando, he didn't make plays? Gotcha.. I wonder how they made the finals.. that was incredible..

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 04:43 PM
Dwight as a leader ?!?!?!?! :facepalm:

Pringles wasnt the coach the entire year.

He was a leader in Orlando and took that team to the finals, don't discredit his leadership because he wasn't given an opportunity to be one in LA..

And Pringles as u called him was the coach for 95% of the season..

tredigs
08-04-2013, 04:46 PM
Also, does anyone agree on this?

I think Harden's passing ability might be getting to the point where its going to get overrated. He averaged 5.8 assists while averaging 3.8 turnovers. I really don't think hes as good of a passer as his assists numbers indicate. They were due to playing fast pace and basically trying to run the opponent out of the game every game. Now you add in Dwight, and the Rockets will slow down their offense. Harden is a decent passer but definitely not on the Chris Paul level so anyone expecting the best nba duo with the best scoring SG and "best" C might be surprised. Anyone else curious to see Harden's numbers when running the PnR with Dwight or in the half court game getting the ball to Dwight (which Houston will run more of this season)?
Well he had a massive Usage% though. It's not like the turnovers just came off passes. He's never played with an offensive big though, so that could be interesting. There's a lot of question marks with that team. Upside is BIG, but I'm just not a huge fan of their current setup (PF and bench wise, primarily).

flea
08-04-2013, 04:48 PM
So Kobe, despite being one of the most self-absorbed and jerkish stars, was the sole leader of the Lakers while Nash, universally respected by teammates and opposing players, was nothing? Even Kobe's HOF coach said he's basically a non-factor or a cancer in the locker room.

tredigs
08-04-2013, 04:51 PM
He was a leader in Orlando and took that team to the finals, don't discredit his leadership because he wasn't given an opportunity to be one in LA..

And Pringles as u called him was the coach for 95% of the season..

No doubt, then the last half decade happened. We'll see what Dwight we get this season.

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 04:58 PM
Read my post again. That's how I figure

everything in your post applied last year and was prove untrue in real life.

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 05:02 PM
Iggy isn't on the decline. Lee is an offensive force. Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green, and Ezili will improve.

The regular season head to head record of 3-1 Rockets is a bit suspect a hook to hang your hat on when neither team is anywhere near the same any longer. The Warriors were playing 4 rookies, the Rockets were learning to play together on the fly.

Playoff basketball is different than regular season ball.

I think it would be a very interesting series to see and I hope we get to see these 2 fully healthy teams fight in the playoffs.

of course it isn't. but the team that wins the regular season matchups will most likely win in the playoffs. and fact of the matter is, the Rockets DOMINATED the Warriors in the regular season and the Rockets got exponentially better this year with the addition of Dwight Howard vs Warriors who replaced some key players with Iguodala.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 05:04 PM
Couldn't find the quote about Harden becoming an over-rated passer

U gotta look at who harden was playing with to make a good guess on his assist/turnover ratio

If u gave Harden, Howard, Gasol, Nash, Instead of Asik, Parsons, Lin

Then Harden would have averaged more assist

Asik doesn't have great hands, and commit some of those turnovers, and Lin is not the best shooter

tredigs
08-04-2013, 05:15 PM
of course it isn't. but the team that wins the regular season matchups will most likely win in the playoffs. and fact of the matter is, the Rockets DOMINATED the Warriors in the regular season and the Rockets got exponentially better this year with the addition of Dwight Howard vs Warriors who replaced some key players with Iguodala.
Except the one game that both were 100% and fighting for playoff births. In that one, the Warriors DOMINATED Houston. You guys didn't get "exponentially better", you just added onto your double double defensive rock with a better one (incurring immediate team unrest in the process). Also lost your starting PF, failed to replace him and still have a bottom 10 PG running the show. There's also the issue with the top bench scorer on your team going into the season being... Francisco Garcia? Omri Casspi? I don't even know, but it's not pretty.

I'm also expecting some internal turmoil based on shot attempts and how the offense is run between Harden and Howard. So looking forward to that.

Lake_Show2416
08-04-2013, 05:32 PM
Warriors r too deep, have the defense & star power, are a legitimate title contender

FOBolous
08-04-2013, 05:37 PM
Except the one game that both were 100% and fighting for playoff births. In that one, the Warriors DOMINATED Houston. You guys didn't get "exponentially better", you just added onto your double double defensive rock with a better one (incurring immediate team unrest in the process). Also lost your starting PF, failed to replace him and still have a bottom 10 PG running the show. There's also the issue with the top bench scorer on your team going into the season being... Francisco Garcia? Omri Casspi? I don't even know, but it's not pretty.

I'm also expecting some internal turmoil based on shot attempts and how the offense is run between Harden and Howard. So looking forward to that.

Howard is not just a "defensive rock." he's an impact player on the offensive also. it's funny how so many people have short term memory and judge him purely by his 1 injury filled, drama filled season with the Lakers where the whole Lakers team had no chemistry with each other. Howard led the Orlando Magic to the finals AS THE LEADER and AS THE FOCAL POINT of the offense.

and Lin is not a bottom 10 PG. his stats improved dramatically as the season progressed and as he better learn his role in Houston. Check his stats since the all-star break. seriously...Lin has officially went from being the most overrated PG in the NBA to the most underrated.

Garcia is an amazing player off the bench. he did an amazing job limiting Durant during the playoffs last year and made some amazing plays to help the Rockets in the playoffs vs OKC. again, you're underrating another one of our player.

fact of the matter is, no matter what you say, Houston has GSW's number.

and there will not be any internal turmoil about how the offense will run. read this article: http://rockets.clutchfans.net/4559/james-harden-dwight-howard-pick-and-roll/ stats wise, Harden is one of the league's top pick and roll ball handler (#5 to be exact) and Howard, throughout his career, has been one of the league's best at finishing the pick and roll. In his “down year” last season, Howard was the 9th best roll man in the NBA, but in 2011-12 he was 2nd best and in 2010-11 he was #1. and with the fact that the Rockets went to the pick-and-roll nearly 1 out of every 4 times they were in a half court offense last season....somehow i think they'll fit together just fine.

Scoots
08-04-2013, 05:42 PM
If D'Antoni was coach of the Lakers for 95% of the season that would be 78 games ... he coached 61 which is 74%.

RLundi
08-04-2013, 05:45 PM
I'm taking Houston.

In the postseason, I always go with the team that has the dominant big man, assuming Dwight is healthy.

RLundi
08-04-2013, 05:46 PM
of course it isn't. but the team that wins the regular season matchups will most likely win in the playoffs. and fact of the matter is, the Rockets DOMINATED the Warriors in the regular season and the Rockets got exponentially better this year with the addition of Dwight Howard vs Warriors who replaced some key players with Iguodala.

This is not necessarily true.

flea
08-04-2013, 06:06 PM
and Lin is not a bottom 10 PG. his stats improved dramatically as the season progressed and as he better learn his role in Houston. Check his stats since the all-star break. seriously...Lin has officially went from being the most overrated PG in the NBA to the most underrated.

Lin is not a bottom 10 PG? Tell me who of these he is better than then:

Parker
Rondo
Irving
Westbrook
Curry
Lawson
Walker
Williams
Paul
Holiday
Vasquez
Dragic
Calderon
Jennings
Felton
Wall
Nash
Rose
Rubio
Teague
Jack
Lillard
Hill
Miller
Lowry
Knight
Conley
Robinson

That's 28 off the top of my head I would rather have than Lin. You could nitpick one or two here or there, but all those guys either are better right now or have way more upside.

Hell Lin probably isn't the best PG on his own team. He can't shoot that well, can't defend, and was 45th in assist to turnover ratio last season. There's just no way that is a top 20 PG. There are plenty of backups better than him.

tredigs
08-04-2013, 06:08 PM
Howard is not just a "defensive rock." he's an impact player on the offensive also. it's funny how so many people have short term memory and judge him purely by his 1 injury filled, drama filled season with the Lakers where the whole Lakers team had no chemistry with each other. Howard led the Orlando Magic to the finals AS THE LEADER and AS THE FOCAL POINT of the offense.

and Lin is not a bottom 10 PG. his stats improved dramatically as the season progressed and as he better learn his role in Houston. Check his stats since the all-star break. seriously...Lin has officially went from being the most overrated PG in the NBA to the most underrated.

Garcia is an amazing player off the bench. he did an amazing job limiting Durant during the playoffs last year and made some amazing plays to help the Rockets in the playoffs vs OKC. again, you're underrating another one of our player.

fact of the matter is, no matter what you say, Houston has GSW's number.

and there will not be any internal turmoil about how the offense will run. read this article: http://rockets.clutchfans.net/4559/james-harden-dwight-howard-pick-and-roll/ stats wise, Harden is one of the league's top pick and roll ball handler (#5 to be exact) and Howard, throughout his career, has been one of the league's best at finishing the pick and roll. In his “down year” last season, Howard was the 9th best roll man in the NBA, but in 2011-12 he was 2nd best and in 2010-11 he was #1. and with the fact that the Rockets went to the pick-and-roll nearly 1 out of every 4 times they were in a half court offense last season....somehow i think they'll fit together just fine.

Lin did have a better 2nd half, but it still wasn't very impressive. 14.4/2.2/5.9 on 45/39/79 and weak D. Does that crack him into the top half of points? I don't think so. The "amazing Francisco Garcia" averaged 5.5/1.5/1 on 39.9% off the bench in that same span, btw. Might want to take off the homer glasses for a bit here...

I'm also getting tired of people dismissing the most recent (post back surgery Dwight) season and all the issues with teammates + coaches he's had in favor of harking back to a great playoff run he had as a 23 yr old half a decade ago when he had a perfect back + shoulders.

As for the PnR, do you know who else is amazing at executing it? Steve Nash. Who had this to say about it with Howard:
However, Nash said that X’s and O’s played just as big a part with Howard as health did.

“He didn’t seem like he really wanted to do a pick-and-roll offense, maybe because he had run one in Orlando for so long and he wanted to get in the post more,” Nash said. So let's not sit here and pretend that D. Howard just walking in and seamlessly fitting into their offensive flow with no issues throughout the season is something we should expect. If you were not a Rocket fan, there's no way you'd be as adamant about that. That much I'm sure of.

The Warriors are going into this season with the better backcourt, frontcourt, bench, and defense. And that's why I like their chances to win more games and go farther in the post season again. Plus, it is nice to see how terrible your #1 option plays against Iguodala. And like I said, we played you guys at full strength once. Crushed you. Then beat up the team that beat you up all year in a playoff series. I'm repeating myself though, can't wait for game action.

Chronz
08-04-2013, 06:11 PM
of course it isn't. but the team that wins the regular season matchups will most likely win in the playoffs. and fact of the matter is, the Rockets DOMINATED the Warriors in the regular season and the Rockets got exponentially better this year with the addition of Dwight Howard vs Warriors who replaced some key players with Iguodala.
Who told you that lie?

Scoots
08-04-2013, 06:14 PM
Harden is great, Howard might be if he can get and stay healthy, Parsons is very good, and there is good talent behind them. The Rockets offense is an unknown.

Curry is great, Thompson, Iguodala, and Barnes could be great but they have a lot to prove, Lee is good on O bad on D, Bogut (if healthy) is great on D, okay on O (passing more than shooting), and there is a lot of quality depth.

The Rockets top 2 may be better than the Ws top 2, the Ws top 6 is certainly better than the Rockets top 6.

We really have no idea what the teams will be like in 90 games. I think we can all agree that it will be interesting to get there, and I'd like to think we can agree that it won't be a walk either way.

Showtime Steve
08-04-2013, 06:19 PM
Warriors in six. They aren't a team that you can go down to the post to get Howard his touches as offensively challenged as he is while the W's are raining threes. Harden woul have to go against iggy/Barnes/Thompson. Exposť him on defense. Houston is still harden or bust

Bishnoff
08-04-2013, 06:21 PM
Warriors easily if healthy.

Chronz
08-04-2013, 06:36 PM
Lin did have a better 2nd half, but it still wasn't very impressive. 14.4/2.2/5.9 on 45/39/79 and weak D. Does that crack him into the top half of points? I don't think so. The "amazing Francisco Garcia" averaged 5.5/1.5/1 on 39.9% off the bench in that same span, btw. Might want to take off the homer glasses for a bit here...
Im thinking Lin should be coming off the bench as an attacking G, the trick is trying to find him minutes with Dwight but without Harden, unless they get the realization that Harden should play more off the ball to make room for Lin+Dwight.


I'm also getting tired of people dismissing the most recent (post back surgery Dwight) season and all the issues with teammates + coaches he's had in favor of harking back to a great playoff run he had as a 23 yr old half a decade ago when he had a perfect back + shoulders.

They do so because of the fact that his season already gave us a glimpse of his ascension. Check the 2nd half stats as he got more of that bounce back in his game.


As for the PnR, do you know who else is amazing at executing it? Steve Nash. Who had this to say about it with Howard: So let's not sit here and pretend that D. Howard just walking in and seamlessly fitting into their offensive flow with no issues throughout the season is something we should expect. If you were not a Rocket fan, there's no way you'd be as adamant about that. That much I'm sure of.

Rockets attack will more closely resemble the Magic's offense than the Lakers, who also had to acclimate post and iso touches for Kobe and Pau. They actually have the shooters to compliment the shots Dwight's rolling opens up. Remember, the Magic were a running team, the Lakers tried to run but had more success when they slowed it down some. Thats not just for Dwight, its for Kobe-Pau and even Nash (his ability to beat his man on the PnR has declined, and thats not all on Dwight).


The Warriors are going into this season with the better backcourt, frontcourt, bench, and
defense.
Arguable on all counts (its why its such a good debate), unless your expecting a huge jump from Klay, its interesting to note that he was statistically inferior to Lin (the guy you are berating). But I guess having a subpar SG isn't as bad as a mediocre PG.

tredigs
08-04-2013, 06:59 PM
Im thinking Lin should be coming off the bench as an attacking G, the trick is trying to find him minutes with Dwight but without Harden, unless they get the realization that Harden should play more off the ball to make room for Lin+Dwight.


They do so because of the fact that his season already gave us a glimpse of his ascension. Check the 2nd half stats as he got more of that bounce back in his game.


Rockets attack will more closely resemble the Magic's offense than the Lakers, who also had to acclimate post and iso touches for Kobe and Pau. They actually have the shooters to compliment the shots Dwight's rolling opens up. Remember, the Magic were a running team, the Lakers tried to run but had more success when they slowed it down some. Thats not just for Dwight, its for Kobe-Pau and even Nash (his ability to beat his man on the PnR has declined, and thats not all on Dwight).


Arguable on all counts (its why its such a good debate), unless your expecting a huge jump from Klay, its interesting to note that he was statistically inferior to Lin (the guy you are berating). But I guess having a subpar SG isn't as bad as a mediocre PG.

Agreed that Howard was clearly better in the 2nd half. I just have trouble fully trusting a repaired back on someone that large as the pounding progresses. But regardless, so long as he's on the court he makes them better. That much is a guarantee.

And you're right to an extent about Houston versus the Lakers offensively, but the Lakers were also a running team that threw them up from all over - they were top 4 in both pace and 3pt shooting, and also carry a ultra high Usage SG who loves to attack the paint in iso.

Klay did improve as the season progressed, and it's fair to expect that to continue in year 3 as a 23 yr old. 2nd half (last 45) he was at 17.5/3.5/2 on 44/42/81 (2.8/6.1 from 3). More impressive though was that he started to take his isolation D to another level (always against the other teams best wing) and generally had to work harder on that end than anyone else. Taking that all into account, I feel he's comfortably better than Lin going forward, especially being that he'll be able to save some more energy for offense with Iguodala in town. Hopefully using it to attack more.

Also agreed that it's arguable on all counts and that's what makes it a great debate. I was going off PSD voting the Warriors as the best frontcourt + backcourt as much as anything else with that comment, but I do believe they have the edge in all of those areas (I really hate their PF and bench situations). Obviously, a lot of this depends on Curry and Bogut staying on the court.

COOLbeans
08-04-2013, 07:08 PM
Iggy did give Harden a hard time last season, but people seem to forget Harden not even 24 yet and still gettting better, while Iggy is on the decline.. If u don't think Harden will get better from last year, by not having a total defense focused on mainly him... and his youth.. then people should get ready for a rude awakening.

Since when was being 29, as in Igoudala's case, considered 'on the decline' rather than being a persons prime?

lol, please
08-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Since when was being 29, as in Igoudala's case, considered 'on the decline' rather than being a persons prime?

Since it was convenient for BenFranks argument.

b@llhog24
08-04-2013, 07:48 PM
Rockets, biased maybe sure, I just don't think people know enough about our players to give them credit. Parsons is way better than the average NBA fan thinks. I have them playing in the first round so we will see then I guess (hope)

No the average Nba fan thinks Parsons is (or at least was) better than he truly is.


If the game is played on paper, Dwight howard was ADDED to a team that already had a superior SRS than the Warriors.

Meanwhile the Warriors replaced quality reserves with Iggy. Its not like they just added him.


That said, you really have to believe in Dwight being cancerous offensively to believe Houston isnt better. They already had superior efficiency scores, shouldnt Dwight be more of a factor here? Do people see giant leaps internally with the Dubs?

I think they'll be the better team with this line of thinking as well. I'm not necessarily a fan of using head to heads to differentiate which team is more dominant. But h2h I think it's a toss up, with a slight edge to Houston.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 07:53 PM
Since when was being 29, as in Igoudala's case, considered 'on the decline' rather than being a persons prime?

In any professional league, If your not getting better.. your getting worse, Iggy would turn 30 a few months after the season starts, I think he hit his ceiling already, which mean he's headed towards a decline.. Do I think Dwight will be the guy he was in Orlando, Nope.. but I think he will still be the best C in the League..

I also consider a person prime around 27 maybe 28, wear n tear in the nba or nfl.. player around 30 or more liable to get injuried

COOLbeans
08-04-2013, 08:07 PM
In any professional league, If your not getting better.. your getting worse, Iggy would turn 30 a few months after the season starts, I think he hit his ceiling already, which mean he's headed towards a decline.. Do I think Dwight will be the guy he was in Orlando, Nope.. but I think he will still be the best C in the League..

I also consider a person prime around 27 maybe 28, wear n tear in the nba or nfl.. player around 30 or more liable to get injuried

I think this is an old line of thinking with the current training these guys go through and the athletic facilities available in 2013. unmatched even compared to 5 or 10 years ago. With all of the metrics available to teams, guys like Iggy won't be over utilized. He will only be used optimally.

Iggy isn't on the decline just because his scoring average went down a little lol

b@llhog24
08-04-2013, 08:12 PM
I think this is an old line of thinking with the current training these guys go through and the athletic facilities available in 2013. unmatched even compared to 5 or 10 years ago. With all of the metrics available to teams, guys like Iggy won't be over utilized. He will only be used optimally.

Iggy isn't on the decline just because his scoring average went down a little lol

He's at that age where his athleticism should diminish, which is a huge reason he's such a good defender. Although I'm not in that boat who believes it'll diminish that much.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 08:14 PM
I think this is an old line of thinking with the current training these guys go through and the athletic facilities available in 2013. unmatched even compared to 5 or 10 years ago. With all of the metrics available to teams, guys like Iggy won't be over utilized. He will only be used optimally.

Iggy isn't on the decline just because his scoring average went down a little lol

So your telling me Athletic facilities, and training will keep older guys from gettting injured?

Lookin at Iggy's past years

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2386/andre-iguodala

I would say he's passed his prime, He can still play D at a High level, but I wouldn't expect to much else

lol, please
08-04-2013, 08:15 PM
"Should" huh? You speak of the late 20s as if they were the late 30s or early 40s. :laugh2: Though it shouldn't matter, because information is at yourfingertips these days, you come off as very young.

TrueFan420
08-04-2013, 08:20 PM
Oops voted rockets on accident. I'd take e warriors if all healthy. We match up well with their best players but they have no one to match up with curry. Also we have far more depth than they do.

WadeKobe
08-04-2013, 08:22 PM
Rockets, for sure.

http://wagesofwins.com/2013/07/16/the-nba-offseason-list-part-3-a-sound-of-thunder/

lolPhillies, how's my Dodgers/giants prediction looking? spot on?

Scoots
08-04-2013, 08:24 PM
Yes, modern training and nutrition makes players less likely to be injured for longer than ever before. Skill increases with experience, athleticism declines at some point, usually after 30 for the elite athletes so the prime these days is usually around 30.

b@llhog24
08-04-2013, 08:26 PM
"Should" huh? You speak of the late 20s as if they were the late 30s or early 40s. :laugh2: Though it shouldn't matter, because information is at yourfingertips these days, you come off as very young.

Most people agree that an athletes prime is in the 26-28 area. Big men generally later, this isn't rocket science.

Bostonjorge
08-04-2013, 08:40 PM
In 2012 is when Howard got hurt never really recovered in 2013 with the lakers so that's why he fell off? So healthy Howard that took the magic to the finals back in 09 is coming back. Healthy Howard in 2011 was eliminated in the first rd by a joe Johnson led team. So if Howard can turn back the clock so can iggy right?

jerellh528
08-04-2013, 08:43 PM
I'd take golden state. They are stacked and play well as a team. Houston has not much besides Howard and harden. I like how everyone is trying to force parsons down our throat like he's some sort of all star or top forward.

lol, please
08-04-2013, 08:45 PM
Rockets, for sure.

http://wagesofwins.com/2013/07/16/the-nba-offseason-list-part-3-a-sound-of-thunder/

lolPhillies, how's my Dodgers/giants prediction looking? spot on?
Looking spot on so far, wade<kobe. :) You are right more often than you are wrong, I have never denied that.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 08:47 PM
Yes, modern training and nutrition makes players less likely to be injured for longer than ever before. Skill increases with experience, athleticism declines at some point, usually after 30 for the elite athletes so the prime these days is usually around 30.

Where was all this nutrition and training when Yao Ming was playing? It was just 5 years ago when he retired, where was all this stuff just 2 years ago when Dwight got Injured, what I'm saying is nothing can stop someone from getting injured, nutrition and training isn't going to help a guy who jump's in the air and lands on someone foot and twist there ankle

tredigs
08-04-2013, 09:03 PM
Rockets, for sure.

http://wagesofwins.com/2013/07/16/the-nba-offseason-list-part-3-a-sound-of-thunder/

lolPhillies, how's my Dodgers/giants prediction looking? spot on?

Tough to take his projections seriously. He has the Lakers as a 13-28 win team and the worst in the NBA, the Warriors winning 35 (are we losing Bogut and Curry the entire season?), Houston winning 60 (is he trying to get a job with Morey?), Miami 14 games worse at 52 wins (Lebron and a D league roster wins 52), Utah winning 49 (wtf?) and NY winning 33 (I think they're a bit worse, not that much).

They're just terrible projections.


Where was all this nutrition and training when Yao Ming was playing? It was just 5 years ago when he retired, where was all this stuff just 2 years ago when Dwight got Injured, what I'm saying is nothing can stop someone from getting injured, nutrition and training isn't going to help a guy who jump's in the air and lands on someone foot and twist there ankle

You're comparing giants to an iron man wing. He has no injury history, he's not one I'd be too worried about.

True Rocket
08-04-2013, 09:21 PM
Rockets in 7...Rockets have a lot of shooters(Parsons, Harden, Garcia, R. Williams, Brooks, Casspi, Bev, ect) just like the warriors. Rockets were already one of the best offensive teams last year, so getting buckets won't be the problem. Iggy is a very nice player to put on Harden. But at the end of the day, Harden is arguably the best SG in the leauge...he's not getting shut down every game. Dwight and Asik are two top 5 defensive bigs that will control the paint. It all really comes down to how much defense Harden will play.

Series could go ether way with shooters like Curry and Thompson. But Houston has 2 top 10 players and a roster who compliments them very well.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 10:05 PM
Russell Westbrook didn't have a injury History either, and he's a lot younger than A.I.

In basketball years

waveycrockett
08-04-2013, 10:07 PM
I actually think the Warriors have the better front court than HOU even with Howard. If Harrison Barnes takes that next step he will be a perennial allstar a la Paul George. He is dripping with talent.

True Rocket
08-04-2013, 10:14 PM
Like most of us in here i still take the dubs over the rockets. Beverly cant handle Curry, Parsons is a new booty and is not ready for playoff bball as much as the dubs playera are. Where was he at against the thunder??? Asik well is Asik lol

Can anybody really guard Curry? I like Beverly's chancing of disrupting Currys game with his full court pressure. And what do you mean rockets players are playoff ready like the warriors? You do realize Parson averaged 19 in the playoffs vs OKC right? The only player who is a question mark for the Rockets in the playoffs is Lin.

sf-fanatic
08-04-2013, 10:18 PM
Russell Westbrook didn't have a injury History either, and he's a lot younger than A.I.

In basketball years

I'm not sure what you are trying to say but injuries can happen to anyone. Harden can get injured too. I'd say its more likely that Dwight gets injured than AI.

tredigs
08-04-2013, 10:19 PM
Russell Westbrook didn't have a injury History either, and he's a lot younger than A.I.

In basketball years

Yes... anyone can get injured. But when a guy has missed a total of 29 games in a 9 year career, its seems irrelevant to bring it up as a potential issue. I'd be more worried about the 270lb guy who's had back surgery and shoulder issues going into year 10.

Scoots
08-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Where was all this nutrition and training when Yao Ming was playing? It was just 5 years ago when he retired, where was all this stuff just 2 years ago when Dwight got Injured, what I'm saying is nothing can stop someone from getting injured, nutrition and training isn't going to help a guy who jump's in the air and lands on someone foot and twist there ankle

Yes it will. Flexibility and supporting muscles are key to reducing the likelihood that ANY injury happens. Nothing will make someone invulnerable to injury, but nobody is arguing that is the case. Yao had a genetic weakness and they got a lot out of him and a lot more than they would have 20 years ago. Big men have a longer recovery time but the time can be shortened with modern techniques.

Scoots
08-04-2013, 10:31 PM
Most people agree that an athletes prime is in the 26-28 area. Big men generally later, this isn't rocket science.

"Most" as in the largest group of people asked said 26-28 years old is an athlete's prime? Can you link the study here so I can read their methodology?

Scoots
08-04-2013, 10:40 PM
Tough to take his projections seriously. He has the Lakers as a 13-28 win team and the worst in the NBA, the Warriors winning 35 (are we losing Bogut and Curry the entire season?), Houston winning 60 (is he trying to get a job with Morey?), Miami 14 games worse at 52 wins (Lebron and a D league roster wins 52), Utah winning 49 (wtf?) and NY winning 33 (I think they're a bit worse, not that much).


The projections are based at least partially on the record of the team the players were on for the past 3 years so a truly great player if his team won 12 games he'd be downgraded for the number of wins from a different team from 3 years ago in projecting wins next year. All models are suspect, this one is pretty terrible.

True Rocket
08-04-2013, 10:50 PM
Also, does anyone agree on this?

I think Harden's passing ability might be getting to the point where its going to get overrated. He averaged 5.8 assists while averaging 3.8 turnovers. I really don't think hes as good of a passer as his assists numbers indicate. They were due to playing fast pace and basically trying to run the opponent out of the game every game. Now you add in Dwight, and the Rockets will slow down their offense. Harden is a decent passer but definitely not on the Chris Paul level so anyone expecting the best nba duo with the best scoring SG and "best" C might be surprised. Anyone else curious to see Harden's numbers when running the PnR with Dwight or in the half court game getting the ball to Dwight (which Houston will run more of this season)?

Just because Harden averages 3.8 tpg doesn't mean he's an overrated passer. Hardens turnovers are more linked to him losing the ball. Harden has impressed me as a passer, I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 7apg next year. He's ones of the best passing 2 guards in the leauge.

BenFrank
08-04-2013, 10:52 PM
I'm not sure what you are trying to say but injuries can happen to anyone. Harden can get injured too. I'd say its more likely that Dwight gets injured than AI.

That's all I was trying to say, but it has turned into a discussion i'm tired of fighting.. I say one thing it get's flipped into something else, I'm done.. so u guys can have it. Hope this tread get's bumped during the season

esscobar05
08-04-2013, 11:03 PM
Where were all of these "options" when you guys played us this year? Guess I was too busy watching the rockets win to notice these "options".

When it counted most.. The last of the four games against you guys, in Mar, when you were 1/2 gm behind us in the playoff race, we beat you guys by 30 in Houston.. That's where all of the options were...

esscobar05
08-04-2013, 11:11 PM
Comparing Dwight situation to the Lakers/Kobe to the Rockets/Harden sound like someone looking for a way to make a point that is not valid..

Rockets
Coach: Big Man coach who wants to run the offense through Dwight
Team: Youngest team in the League last year, who will only grow, and Dwight can be a leader on

Lakers
Coach: Wants a shot off in the First 7 seconds, had no respect for Dwight as a Leader
Team: Mostly guys past there prime's (at the time) Artest, Gasol, Nash, Kobe.. (who is a lone leader)

It's like trying to compare water with milk.. it's not the same

You have the sig of the year!!....Hilarious!

Scoots
08-04-2013, 11:14 PM
That's all I was trying to say, but it has turned into a discussion i'm tired of fighting.. I say one thing it get's flipped into something else, I'm done.. so u guys can have it. Hope this tread get's bumped during the season

I don't think anyone argued that injuries don't happen to anyone, merely that injuries are reduced by modern training techniques.

Clippersfan86
08-04-2013, 11:35 PM
Warriors are a matchup nightmare for Houston. Bogut is one of the few centers who gives Dwight problems with his defense and has the post moves to get Dwight into foul trouble. H2H statistically Dwight has absolutely won the war but Bogut at least makes him work on both ends and doesn't let him completely dominate. Then you look at Iggy who owns Harden H2H and it's no surprise the Warriors win.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=iguodan01&p2=hardeja01

Factor in that Curry is the most unstoppable offensive player on either team and nobody on the Rockets can come close to guarding him and the outcome is clear. When these teams go to the bench Warriors cream them again. Warriors would win in 6.

alexander_37
08-04-2013, 11:40 PM
Warriors are a matchup nightmare for Houston. Bogut is one of the few centers who gives Dwight problems with his defense and has the post moves to get Dwight into foul trouble. H2H statistically Dwight has absolutely won the war but Bogut at least makes him work on both ends and doesn't let him completely dominate. Then you look at Iggy who owns Harden H2H and it's no surprise the Warriors win.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=iguodan01&p2=hardeja01

Factor in that Curry is the most unstoppable offensive player on either team and nobody on the Rockets can come close to guarding him and the outcome is clear. When these teams go to the bench Warriors cream them again. Warriors would win in 6.

:laugh:

lol, please
08-04-2013, 11:45 PM
:laugh:

But it's true. :shrug: What were you going to say, Harden? Iggy renders him obsolete almost.

alexander_37
08-04-2013, 11:49 PM
But it's true. :shrug: What were you going to say, Harden? Iggy renders him obsolete almost.

Considering if you look at that head to head match up and only take the data from last season Harden scores 18.25 on 40%, not great but better than shown and FAR from obsolete.

Clippersfan86
08-05-2013, 12:11 AM
But it's true. :shrug: What were you going to say, Harden? Iggy renders him obsolete almost.

Even in general I think Curry is a more dangerous offensive player than Harden going forward but the reason I said that is because of what you said. Who's going to check Curry? Lin or Beverley lol? Curry would average 30 ppg against the Rockets in a series where as Iggy is going to hold Harden in check pretty well.

denverfan66
08-05-2013, 12:49 AM
GS is a more sure bet compared to Houston. Iggy is one of the few guys in this league that's a good fit on most teams. With that being said, Houston playing up to their potential would be a better team.

Clippersfan86
08-05-2013, 01:02 AM
GS is a more sure bet compared to Houston. Iggy is one of the few guys in this league that's a good fit on most teams. With that being said, Houston playing up to their potential would be a better team.

This isn't a thread about who's the better team. It's the thread about who would win H2H in a series. GS is the LAST team Houston wants. They have the firepower to match Houston in a running game as proven last year AND more perimeter defense. Not to mention the one unguardable player in a series (Curry).

denverfan66
08-05-2013, 01:13 AM
GS is a more sure bet compared to Houston. Iggy is one of the few guys in this league that's a good fit on most teams. With that being said, Houston playing up to their potential would be a better team.

This isn't a thread about who's the better team. It's the thread about who would win H2H in a series. GS is the LAST team Houston wants. They have the firepower to match Houston in a running game as proven last year AND more perimeter defense. Not to mention the one unguardable player in a series (Curry).In that case I'd agree. The Warriors match up nice like you said.

Clippersfan86
08-05-2013, 01:17 AM
In that case I'd agree. The Warriors match up nice like you said.

I mean don't get me wrong. Record wise and overall team balance wise Houston may be better. Just think GS would win a series with the addition of Iggy. Last year Houston won 3-1 on the season series but they had nobody to guard Harden, now they do. I think Iggy directly addresses one of the worst weaknesses of GS last year which was perimeter defense.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 01:58 AM
Considering if you look at that head to head match up and only take the data from last season Harden scores 18.25 on 40%, not great but better than shown and FAR from obsolete.

Those numbers are actually pretty horrible for a #1 option like Harden who considered the #1 SG in the NBA last season.

tredigs
08-05-2013, 02:04 AM
I mean don't get me wrong. Record wise and overall team balance wise Houston may be better. Just think GS would win a series with the addition of Iggy. Last year Houston won 3-1 on the season series but they had nobody to guard Harden, now they do. I think Iggy directly addresses one of the worst weaknesses of GS last year which was perimeter defense.

Well actually Klay's grown into a really good perimeter defender himself and held Harden to shoot like 28% last year. But adding Iggy on top of that definitely makes it tougher on their perimeter game.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hardeja01&p2=thompkl01

raiderposting
08-05-2013, 02:06 AM
I read on the first page from a rocket fan that Patrick Beverley can limit curry. I stopped reading. Ws win in 6

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 02:11 AM
I think Harrison Barnes is going to follow in the footsteps of Paul George. That kid will be a beast my only problem with W's is Curry needs to improve his PG mentality. When his shot is not falling or is facing constant double teams he doesn't help his team in other ways other than keep shooting. It's a blessing but it can also be a shooters curse. When his shot isn't falling he can still get to the hoop and create for everyone else. He has a ton of weapons now.

MackShock
08-05-2013, 02:16 AM
I read on the first page from a rocket fan that Patrick Beverley can limit curry. I stopped reading. Ws win in 6

Beverley can be a pest... it's certainly not out of the question.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 02:20 AM
Beverley can be a pest... it's certainly not out of the question.

Give me a break. No PG in the NBA can shut down curry. NONE. It took a combo of Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to do it and Curry was dealing with an injury at that. He would torch Beverley

MackShock
08-05-2013, 02:31 AM
Give me a break. No PG in the NBA can shut down curry. NONE. It took a combo of Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to do it and Curry was dealing with an injury at that. He would torch Beverley

I'm not saying Beverely could, but he has a reputation for being a defensive stopper. Just saying that I wouldn't put it past him to bother Curry and throw him off his game a little.

Clippersfan86
08-05-2013, 02:31 AM
Well actually Klay's grown into a really good perimeter defender himself and held Harden to shoot like 28% last year. But adding Iggy on top of that definitely makes it tougher on their perimeter game.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hardeja01&p2=thompkl01

I agree Klay improved a lot defensively last year. That being said he's nowhere close to Iggy defensively. I also expect Barnes to improve on D. Just a bad matchup for Houston IMO.

Clippersfan86
08-05-2013, 02:36 AM
I'm not saying Beverely could, but he has a reputation for being a defensive stopper. Just saying that I wouldn't put it past him to bother Curry and throw him off his game a little.

He hasn't earned that reputation. Is he a capable and nice backup PG defensively? Definitely. "Stopper"? Nope. Curry is hands down a top 3 most unguardable player in the NBA. Meaning when he gets going literally NOBODY is stopping him or slowing him, right there with Lebron, Durant, Kobe etc. Curry is just too big, too good with the handle and too pure of a shooter for a PG like Beverley to stop.

sf-fanatic
08-05-2013, 03:23 AM
I'm not saying Beverely could, but he has a reputation for being a defensive stopper. Just saying that I wouldn't put it past him to bother Curry and throw him off his game a little.

He might be a good defender, but he is far from a defensive "stopper"

I feel like stopper should be reserved for people who have earned the reputation can stop anyone on a given basis like Lebron/Tony Allen/AI. Theres definitely more but those 3 off the top of my head.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 03:55 AM
Lets put it this way Steph Curry torched Andre Iguadola, maybe the NBA's best perimeter defender SO BAD he wanted to switch teams. Wtf is Patrick Beverely going to do? LOL

FOXHOUND
08-05-2013, 04:03 AM
The Warriors match up terrifically with Houston IMO, so I go with them.

I'm not sure why so many people are assuming that Howard and Harden will have a perfect marriage. Harden handles and shoots the ball about as much as Kobe does and like Kobe he is a far better offensive player than Dwight, so I don't see why that will change. Maybe Dwight is fooled because he does it with a smile instead of a scowl? I don't know.

Dwight's unwillingness to operate in the pick n roll, when he was by far his most effective as an offensive player, and his new determination to try and be the post player he is not will cause many problems for the Houston Rockets. Maybe he'll snap out of it and go back to his strengths offensively, and try to form a very problematic PnR combo with Harden, but at this point I wouldn't bet on it. For years Dwight has been shifting to being more of a post player and each year he focuses more on posting and less on rolling.

Dwight's post game should be a much smaller part of his game than it is. He should use it to exploit mismatches, which his size and athleticism should give him an ample amount of touches vs the average NBA center, but in no way should be the focus of his offensive contribution. McHale can't change the fact that Dwight doesn't have the footwork, touch around the rim or lower body strength to be a great post player. His post game should be an accent to his offensive skills and he probably won't get that for a while.

PurpleLynch
08-05-2013, 04:39 AM
I'm not sure,but I'd take the Warriors. Howard is the best C in the league? On defense probably. But on offense is awful,can't shoot free throws,he doesn't have a midrange game and doesn't have post moves. Now Howard can prove me wrong next season,but he could show something in LA and he didn't. He can't just bully his way dunking on people. Anyway the Warriors are a lot deeper this year. Just hope Harden will have a good season,he deserves it.

sunsfan88
08-05-2013, 05:01 AM
He might be a good defender, but he is far from a defensive "stopper"

I feel like stopper should be reserved for people who have earned the reputation can stop anyone on a given basis like Lebron/Tony Allen/AI. Theres definitely more but those 3 off the top of my head.
AI????!!

Your joking right? Even in his prime he wasn't a "defensive stopper"!

Add Deng and Igoudala to your list instead.

TrueFan420
08-05-2013, 05:57 AM
AI????!!

Your joking right? Even in his prime he wasn't a "defensive stopper"!

Add Deng and Igoudala to your list instead.some call iggy AI I'm sure that's who he was referring to

Goose17
08-05-2013, 08:37 AM
the team that wins the regular season matchups will most likely win in the playoffs.

What? This is so false it's incredible that nobody else pointed it out yet. Did everyone skim over this post?

Regular season series mean very little in the playoffs. In fact, they mean almost nothing.

Do you actually watch the NBA?