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Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 08:02 PM
The bulls are getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed in the east by so many people. Is this really how good they will be in 2013-14? or do they get ranked so high based off of past results?

We all know that Thibs is a great coach and that players who play for him over-achieve, but how many increase in wins are being based off of Rose coming off a SERIOUS knee injury?

Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously? Bulls fans wanted to run him out of town, and once Rose was gone, he actually played better. Can Rose and Boozer co-exist together on this squad?

Jimmy "Buckets" Butler was a great breakout story last year, will that continue? Will he even get the minutes he had last year?

Deng was so over-used last year, can he overcome the trade talk and mega minutes he will see again?

Noah, My favorite player on that team had so many health issues last year, can he stay on the court?

The Bulls have a lot of questions, are they really a number 1-2 seed?

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 08:05 PM
Which team doesn't have questions though?

bearadonisdna
08-02-2013, 08:06 PM
Nah.
Free pass.

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 08:07 PM
Which team doesn't have questions though?

Every team has Questions, but not every team is being called a 1-2 seed.
Why don't the Bulls get the same questions everyone else gets?

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 08:07 PM
Nah.
Free pass.

That is exactly how it looks right now. free pass

bearadonisdna
08-02-2013, 08:08 PM
delete

abe_froman
08-02-2013, 08:13 PM
Every team has Questions, but not every team is being called a 1-2 seed.
Why don't the Bulls get the same questions everyone else gets?

they get questioned ,but you cant ignore the .687% win percentage they've had over the past 3 years.even without rose they were a 5th seed last year.
are they guaranteed a top 2 seed? no
is it a strong possibility they'll get one? yes

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 08:16 PM
Every team has Questions, but not every team is being called a 1-2 seed.
Why don't the Bulls get the same questions everyone else gets?

Of course they do. Nobody knows how good Derrick Rose will be in his return and how he'll play. But they were one of the best teams in the East last year with a totally depleted roster...its normal to assume that since those players are healthy now, they will be even better.

Chicago will be #3 in the East if Rose can return to form imo.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2013, 08:24 PM
Of course they do. Nobody knows how good Derrick Rose will be in his return and how he'll play. But they were one of the best teams in the East last year with a totally depleted roster...its normal to assume that since those players are healthy now, they will be even better.

Chicago will be #3 in the East if Rose can return to form imo.

The Knicks had the 2nd most missed games in the league last year, only trailing Minnesota, and no one gives them the benefit of the doubt there and they were the 2 seed.

HYFR
08-02-2013, 08:34 PM
No I don't think so but thibs cannot run them into the ground( not entirely his fault, they were depleted). They have some more depth this year so look for them to be a top 3 seed.

Chronz
08-02-2013, 08:39 PM
I have them behind Indiana

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 08:42 PM
The Knicks had the 2nd most missed games in the league last year, only trailing Minnesota, and no one gives them the benefit of the doubt there and they were the 2 seed.
I think Chicago and Indiana improved more this off season (Chicago did so solely by the return of Rose) than NY. Unless Baragnani or Tim Hardaway Jr is hiding something under their sleeves, I have both Chi and Ind ahead of NY.

Plus I'm not a real big fan of playing a SF at PF. It only works if you have a PF that's capable of defending PFs and protecting the paint and IMO Melo is far from that.

kingkenny01
08-02-2013, 08:44 PM
they were the first seed in the east over the heat twice in a row, so no

JerseyPalahniuk
08-02-2013, 08:47 PM
The Knicks had the 2nd most missed games in the league last year, only trailing Minnesota, and no one gives them the benefit of the doubt there and they were the 2 seed.

Most fans completely ignore injuries here on PSD. Nets had MORE games missed to injuries and greater adversity then the Wolves (check the sig) the season before last and everyone just assumed we were still going to be awful . Mods here even said (29Jersey specifically) that they would be lucky to get the 8th seed. Yeah we lost to this same bulls team in the playoffs but we had AWFUL rotations from our two coaches and still ended up as the 4th seed (and 1 game behind three seed Pacers who we swept 3-0 in the regular season).

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2013, 08:50 PM
I think Chicago and Indiana improved more this off season (Chicago did so solely by the return of Rose) than NY. Unless Baragnani or Tim Hardaway Jr is hiding something under their sleeves, I have both Chi and Ind ahead of NY.

Plus I'm not a real big fan of playing a SF at PF. It only works if you have a PF that's capable of defending PFs and protecting the paint and IMO Melo is far from that.

Right, but your still ignoring the missed games. Does getting a healthy Shumpert for the whole year and Amare for 20 minutes per game not improve them as well?

TeamSeattle
08-02-2013, 08:53 PM
Most fans completely ignore injuries here on PSD. Nets had MORE games missed to injuries and greater adversity then the Wolves (check the sig) the season before last and everyone just assumed we were still going to be awful . Mods here even said (29Jersey specifically) that they would be lucky to get the 8th seed. Yeah we lost to this same bulls team in the playoffs but we had AWFUL rotations from our two coaches and still ended up as the 4th seed (and 1 game behind three seed Pacers who we swept 3-0 in the regular season).

Exactly. I have the Knicks & Nets better than the Bulls this year. Prove it to me before you hail them a top 3 team.

Cubby
08-02-2013, 09:01 PM
Most fans completely ignore injuries here on PSD. Nets had MORE games missed to injuries and greater adversity then the Wolves (check the sig) the season before last and everyone just assumed we were still going to be awful . Mods here even said (29Jersey specifically) that they would be lucky to get the 8th seed. Yeah we lost to this same bulls team in the playoffs but we had AWFUL rotations from our two coaches and still ended up as the 4th seed (and 1 game behind three seed Pacers who we swept 3-0 in the regular season).

Exactly. I have the Knicks & Nets better than the Bulls this year. Prove it to me before you hail them a top 3 team.

If you're saying the Bulls have to prove it, the same should go for the Nets. They're a team that's never played a game together and have a rookie coach that could completely flop.

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 09:02 PM
Right, but your still ignoring the missed games. Does getting a healthy Shumpert for the whole year and Amare for 20 minutes per game not improve them as well?

Absolutely. But Amare IMO is done and even if he's healthy, he can't contribute much. He's lost almost all his athleticism now and is even worse defensively than he was.

Getting Shumpert will definitely help NY but getting Rose back will help Chicago more than getting Shumpert back will help NY. I'm sure you agree.

IAmARanger18
08-02-2013, 09:04 PM
Knick fan must have started this thread

JerseyPalahniuk
08-02-2013, 09:05 PM
If you're saying the Bulls have to prove it, the same should go for the Nets. They're a team that's never played a game together and have a rookie coach that could completely flop.

Which is why most people here have them as a 3-5 seed (I have them as 4th).

TeamSeattle
08-02-2013, 09:07 PM
Which is why most people here have them as a 3-5 seed (I have them as 4th).

I think its safe to say predictions don't mean much in the end. Nets & Knicks were nowhere near seeded where they were predicted last year.

I still remember everybody running with that Hollinger prediction lol

JerseyPalahniuk
08-02-2013, 09:11 PM
I think its safe to say predictions don't mean much in the end. Nets & Knicks were nowhere near seeded where they were predicted last year.

I still remember everybody running with that Hollinger prediction lol

I had them as #4 last year and Knicks at #3. Pacers surprised me doing well with Granger out (Lance came out of nowhere). Don't always agree with Hollinger.

el hidalgo
08-02-2013, 09:48 PM
coming from a knicks fan :laugh: your team is garbage

el hidalgo
08-02-2013, 09:50 PM
The bulls are getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed in the east by so many people. Is this really how good they will be in 2013-14? or do they get ranked so high based off of past results?

We all know that Thibs is a great coach and that players who play for him over-achieve, but how many increase in wins are being based off of Rose coming off a SERIOUS knee injury?

Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously? Bulls fans wanted to run him out of town, and once Rose was gone, he actually played better. Can Rose and Boozer co-exist together on this squad?

Jimmy "Buckets" Butler was a great breakout story last year, will that continue? Will he even get the minutes he had last year?

Deng was so over-used last year, can he overcome the trade talk and mega minutes he will see again?

Noah, My favorite player on that team had so many health issues last year, can he stay on the court?

The Bulls have a lot of questions, are they really a number 1-2 seed?
every hypothetical here ended in the worst case scenario. what a joke.
will melo have the horrible efficiency he had in the playoffs?
will tyson chandler's injury woes continue?
Is amare completely done?
will JR smith continue his awful, AWFUL playoff streak?



see what i did there?

east fb knicks
08-02-2013, 09:55 PM
yes the nets and bulls will be fighting for 4th and 5th seed

chicagocubsfan
08-02-2013, 09:56 PM
they were the first seed in the east over the heat twice in a row, so no

Exactly. With Rose back the Bulls should be in the mix for the two seed definitely. When healthy he is the best player out of the group of the potential 2-5 seeds in the East, so it depends on how he bounces back. If he is a shell of his former self, the Bulls will be fighting for the 5th seed.

TeamSeattle
08-02-2013, 09:56 PM
coming from a knicks fan :laugh: your team is garbage

The Knicks are garbage? Please explain if your a Laker fan cuz the mirror isn't big enough.

east fb knicks
08-02-2013, 09:56 PM
mainly the bulls bench sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chicagocubsfan
08-02-2013, 10:06 PM
mainly the bulls bench sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what they said about our bench last year, and it became one of our strengths.

bearadonisdna
08-02-2013, 10:08 PM
mainly the bulls bench sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not really. 3 out of the five position backups are good to great for bench standards. Kirk, Taj, Dunleavy.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2013, 10:14 PM
Absolutely. But Amare IMO is done and even if he's healthy, he can't contribute much. He's lost almost all his athleticism now and is even worse defensively than he was.

Getting Shumpert will definitely help NY but getting Rose back will help Chicago more than getting Shumpert back will help NY. I'm sure you agree.

He's still very efficient on offense. He could easily put up 12/6 off the bench. Obviously, his contract makes that look insignificant, but it's still a nice contribution from a guy on a 20 minute limit.

I do agree with that last part, but I don't agree that getting Rose back has a bigger impact than Shump/Amare/MWP/Bargnani/TH Jr. combined. I'm sure you would agree with that as well.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2013, 10:15 PM
coming from a knicks fan :laugh: your team is garbage

Coming from a Laker fan....irony.

Dade County
08-02-2013, 10:16 PM
I do think fans are over rating them... I see them getting beat in the 2nd rd, if their roster stays the same.

bearadonisdna
08-02-2013, 10:20 PM
I do think fans are over rating them... I see them getting beat in the 2nd rd, if their roster stays the same.


That doesnt mean they are over rated. Almost every top east team could be ousted in round 2 depending on who they play.

mizzacNYC
08-02-2013, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Captain Moroni
The bulls are getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed in the east by so many people. Is this really how good they will be in 2013-14? or do they get ranked so high based off of past results?

We all know that Thibs is a great coach and that players who play for him over-achieve, but how many increase in wins are being based off of Rose coming off a SERIOUS knee injury?

Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously? Bulls fans wanted to run him out of town, and once Rose was gone, he actually played better. Can Rose and Boozer co-exist together on this squad?

Jimmy "Buckets" Butler was a great breakout story last year, will that continue? Will he even get the minutes he had last year?

Deng was so over-used last year, can he overcome the trade talk and mega minutes he will see again?

Noah, My favorite player on that team had so many health issues last year, can he stay on the court?

The Bulls have a lot of questions, are they really a number 1-2 seed?


every hypothetical here ended in the worst case scenario. what a joke.
will melo have the horrible efficiency he had in the playoffs?
will tyson chandler's injury woes continue?
Is amare completely done?
will JR smith continue his awful, AWFUL playoff streak?



see what i did there?

Do you see what u did there? Thats what most non-Knick fans sound like...

You see what I did there???

MrfadeawayJB
08-02-2013, 10:31 PM
People are quick to forget how awesome Derrick rose is. Even if he comes back to 85% of what he was before the injury, that still puts him in the discussion of top pg and top 10 player in the league.

I think there is a real undervalue of rose and the bulls team defense on here

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 10:31 PM
[QUOTE=sunsfan88;26815817]I think Chicago and Indiana improved more this off season (Chicago did so solely by the return of Rose) than NY. Unless Baragnani or Tim Hardaway Jr is hiding something under their sleeves, I have both Chi and Ind ahead of NY.

QUOTE]

But the Bulls lost a lot as well. Nate Robinson was huge for them as was Bellinelli. Both gone. Rose is a huge question mark that wont be answered until we actually see him play, cut and drive hard to the rim. will he be able to play defense against the faster guards in the league or will he lose a step after surgery?
This was my question at the start.....Are the Bulls being over rated based on past history? I think people just believe 100% that Rose will be 100% healthy. Big leap.

D1JM
08-02-2013, 10:35 PM
Thibs.

bearadonisdna
08-02-2013, 10:38 PM
[QUOTE=sunsfan88;26815817]I think Chicago and Indiana improved more this off season (Chicago did so solely by the return of Rose) than NY. Unless Baragnani or Tim Hardaway Jr is hiding something under their sleeves, I have both Chi and Ind ahead of NY.

QUOTE]


But the Bulls lost a lot as well. Nate Robinson was huge for them as was Bellinelli. Both gone. Rose is a huge question mark that wont be answered until we actually see him play, cut and drive hard to the rim. will he be able to play defense against the faster guards in the league or will he lose a step after surgery?
This was my question at the start.....Are the Bulls being over rated based on past history? I think people just believe 100% that Rose will be 100% healthy. Big leap.

Bulls let those guy go willingly it seems. Just like Brewer , watson, and korver were such
huge losses but then that Bulls team outperformed them in the playoffs.
Nate is being replaced by kirk in the rotation and Marco is being replaced by Dunleavy in the rotation.

The consensus is that even is Rose is 80-85% healthy the Bulls are still better than last year and still one of the elite teams in the nba. No they are not over rated.

TeamSeattle
08-02-2013, 10:45 PM
Bulls let those guy go willingly it seems. Just like Brewer , watson, and korver were such
huge losses but then that Bulls team outperformed them in the playoffs.
Nate is being replaced by kirk in the rotation and Marco is being replaced by Dunleavy in the rotation.

The consensus is that even is Rose is 80-85% healthy the Bulls are still better than last year and still one of the elite teams in the nba. No they are not over rated.

Remains to be seen. They will be top 5 nonetheless.

bearadonisdna
08-02-2013, 10:52 PM
Remains to be seen. They will be top 5 nonetheless.

i dont think them being better than last year remains to be seen. They open the season with two new starter as opposed to opening day last season.

Kirk
Rip
Deng
Boozer
Noah

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

JerseyPalahniuk
08-02-2013, 10:54 PM
i dont think them being better than last year remains to be seen. They open the season with two new starter as opposed to opening day last season.

Kirk
Rip
Deng
Boozer
Noah

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

And as long as Thibs doesn't get injured, that defense won't falter.

Dade County
08-02-2013, 10:55 PM
That doesnt mean they are over rated. Almost every top east team could be ousted in round 2 depending on who they play.

True...

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 10:58 PM
Exactly. I have the Knicks & Nets better than the Bulls this year. Prove it to me before you hail them a top 3 team.

I think Kidd needs to prove himself as an NBA head coach before I anoint the Nets as Division champs or even a top 3 seed. Too many moving parts that have never played with each other. (See Lakers, los Angeles Cirqa 2012-13)

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 11:01 PM
If you're saying the Bulls have to prove it, the same should go for the Nets. They're a team that's never played a game together and have a rookie coach that could completely flop.

Agree 100%
I also think Indiana needs to prove that their playoff run was not a fluke. People just saw them reach the ECF and assume they are a top 3 seed as well. If the Knicks had beaten Indy last year would people give the Knicks the same respect? Uhhhh No they would not.

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 11:04 PM
Absolutely. But Amare IMO is done and even if he's healthy, he can't contribute much. He's lost almost all his athleticism now and is even worse defensively than he was.

Getting Shumpert will definitely help NY but getting Rose back will help Chicago more than getting Shumpert back will help NY. I'm sure you agree.

Amare healthy is a big lift for NYK. You cant just say he is garbage and if healthy gives the Knicks nothing. That would be foolish. If healthy, a 20 minute a night Stat off the bench could be Huge.

BIG worm
08-02-2013, 11:06 PM
What this comes down to is a Knicks fan hate thread on the Bulls. I dont know what seed the Bulls will end up with, but i do know that the Bulls will handle the Knicks head to head this season.

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 11:06 PM
coming from a knicks fan :laugh: your team is garbage

Nothing to add, so just say something that makes no sense.

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 11:09 PM
That doesnt mean they are over rated. Almost every top east team could be ousted in round 2 depending on who they play.

Absolutely. That is why getting a 1-3 seed is vital to everyone's playoff lives.

Captain Moroni
08-02-2013, 11:12 PM
And as long as Thibs doesn't get injured, that defense won't falter.

awesome line. LOL

effen5
08-02-2013, 11:24 PM
Is Thibs still on the team? If he is, the Bulls are a lock for the top 3 seed. Bulls made the 5 without their MVP and a bench that took almost half a year to "figure it out."

Kyben36
08-02-2013, 11:39 PM
if rose comes back healthy there is no doubt I think in anyones minds that the bulls are top 2 seed. that said, thats a big if. I mean, the bulls had the best recod 2 years in a row previously to rose's injury, the bulls have IMO clearly improved from then, Jimmy is surely going to at least be a serviceable 2, and Im not sure any team can compete defensivly with us. but this is all under the idea that rose is healthy, if so, no doubt. if not, 3-5 seed at worst still. bulls proved that last season.

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 11:43 PM
He's still very efficient on offense. He could easily put up 12/6 off the bench. Obviously, his contract makes that look insignificant, but it's still a nice contribution from a guy on a 20 minute limit.

I do agree with that last part, but I don't agree that getting Rose back has a bigger impact than Shump/Amare/MWP/Bargnani/TH Jr. combined. I'm sure you would agree with that as well.
Yea but again, its Amare. How long is it going to take in those 20 mins per game for him to get hurt?

If he can provide 12 & 6 like you say then sure he would be doing a lot better than I'm giving him credit for but chances are that if he scores 12 a game, he's likely giving up 16 on the other end.

And I don't see Baragani having much of a role with NYK simply cause I'm wondering where he's going to find playing time. Carmelo and Amare start above him at PF and there are better options for Chandler's backup than Baragani I'm sure. Plus he would absolutely suck as a C.

I completely forgot about MWP, but yes you are right that he will likely contribute some for NY as well. I don't JR here cause he's not an addition or a change in the off season...he played for NYK last season.

I think you are underestimating Rose, the only person to have won MVP in the last 5 years other than LBJ, and if he can even return to 70% of his former self, he's easily a top 20 player in this league. That has a much higher impact than Shumpert/MWP/Amare.

We will just have to wait and see how Rose returns first.

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 11:45 PM
Amare healthy is a big lift for NYK. You cant just say he is garbage and if healthy gives the Knicks nothing. That would be foolish. If healthy, a 20 minute a night Stat off the bench could be Huge.
Amare has no more athleticism. He's a player who lives off his athleticism. Without any athleticism, he's no longer a force in the pick & roll game which he's so famous for and he's an even bigger liability on defense and rebounds. How many ever points he scores, he will giving up nearly twice as many on the other end.

FOXHOUND
08-02-2013, 11:46 PM
I think they're being overrated a little, but they're obviously a top team in the east. I think too many people are just assuming that Rose is going to walk on the court and be back at his MVP level, or even hit it by December or January. The truth is we don't know what Rose will come back. He's obviously going to be good, but will he be back at a top 5 player level? We don't know, and I think too many people are acting like it's a sure thing when talking about them. Another thing is the team is still lacking in offensive weapons after Rose. Come playoff time it's still going to be Rose having to do way too much on offense.

Still, Thibs has proven that he is the second best coach in the NBA, after Pop of course, and will no doubt have them rolling at times throughout the regular season. I would not be surprised at all if they end up returning to being the 1 seed while Miami drops back to a 2 seed from coasting more. I think the thing for them is, do they have enough talent come playoff time after Rose and Noah? Butler looks like he has some promising talent, but is he ready to step up by next season? Deng's last two years have been really rough, will he ever be healthy again? Can Boozer do any good damage vs any respectable PF in a playoff series?

D1JM
08-03-2013, 12:04 AM
I think they're being overrated a little, but they're obviously a top team in the east. I think too many people are just assuming that Rose is going to walk on the court and be back at his MVP level, or even hit it by December or January. The truth is we don't know what Rose will come back. He's obviously going to be good, but will he be back at a top 5 player level? We don't know, and I think too many people are acting like it's a sure thing when talking about them. Another thing is the team is still lacking in offensive weapons after Rose. Come playoff time it's still going to be Rose having to do way too much on offense.

Still, Thibs has proven that he is the second best coach in the NBA, after Pop of course, and will no doubt have them rolling at times throughout the regular season. I would not be surprised at all if they end up returning to being the 1 seed while Miami drops back to a 2 seed from coasting more. I think the thing for them is, do they have enough talent come playoff time after Rose and Noah? Butler looks like he has some promising talent, but is he ready to step up by next season? Deng's last two years have been really rough, will he ever be healthy again? Can Boozer do any good damage vs any respectable PF in a playoff series?

if they stay healthy, yes. butler at the two is going to be scary defensively.

DamnGoat
08-03-2013, 12:05 AM
If anything I think they're being a bit underrated with all the Pacers hype lately.

They have to stay healthy, that's the key and if they are then they should finish as a top 2 seed again. Thibs is a great coach and I think a lot of people are forgetting how good he & Rose have been together.

Lakers Ghost
08-03-2013, 12:22 AM
overrated? dont think so. I really have not heard many people saying what you are stating about bulls being a #2 seed if anything the knicks are overrated I have heard many people saying about how the knicks are so good which I dont think they are the best in the east. I have the bulls at #5-6 and knicks at #4.

DamnGoat
08-03-2013, 12:28 AM
overrated? dont think so. I really have not heard many people saying what you are stating about bulls being a #2 seed if anything the knicks are overrated I have heard many people saying about how the knicks are so good which I dont think they are the best in the east. I have the bulls at #5-6 and knicks at #4.
This is kind of what I'm saying...a 5-6 seed is them being underrated and by a lot IMO. They were a 5 seed last year with Rose missing the entire season.

Assuming they're healthy, I do not see 4-5 teams in the East that are definitively better than them next season.

Bostonjorge
08-03-2013, 01:02 AM
I got bulls at 3 best in east. Have a good tough coach and they play great team ball especially on D. I don't think Rose will come back to MVP status. I have Melo and George over Rose but I believe the bulls are a better team. Now if Rose comes back better or MVP Rose then they can get the top seed. We will see.

lol, please
08-03-2013, 01:14 AM
i dont think them being better than last year remains to be seen. They open the season with two new starter as opposed to opening day last season.

Kirk
Rip
Deng
Boozer
Noah

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah
If by Bulls you mean Heat, and Rockets, then I agree.

Captain Moroni
08-03-2013, 01:50 AM
Who besides a couple of Knicks fans over rates the Knicks? No one is picking NY to get a top 2 seed. but they didnt last year either.

lol, please
08-03-2013, 01:55 AM
Who besides a couple of Knicks fans over rates the Knicks? No one is picking NY to get a top 2 seed. but they didnt last year either.

Great sig, well said.

flips333
08-03-2013, 01:58 AM
The Knicks had the 2nd most missed games in the league last year, only trailing Minnesota, and no one gives them the benefit of the doubt there and they were the 2 seed.

Missing games from a player who they want off the team... It's not like losing an MVP for the whole season, and the next two best players for about a quarter each.

Hawkeye15
08-03-2013, 02:02 AM
depends how you rate them. I figure they finish top 3 in the east.

NoahH
08-03-2013, 02:41 AM
Are they an auto 1/2 seed? No. I don't think so. I think Miami (for sure), Brooklyn and Indiana could finish ahead of them. Deng is getting overworked and Boozer gets bust-ier every minute. If I had to put money on it I'd predict:

1 Miami (61-21)
2 Indiana (56-26)
3 Chicago (54-28)
4 Brooklyn (53-29)

bearadonisdna
08-03-2013, 04:14 AM
Are they an auto 1/2 seed? No. I don't think so. I think Miami (for sure), Brooklyn and Indiana could finish ahead of them. Deng is getting overworked and Boozer gets bust-ier every minute. If I had to put money on it I'd predict:

1 Miami (61-21)
2 Indiana (56-26)
3 Chicago (54-28)
4 Brooklyn (53-29)

Auto 1 or two seed ? No. Legitimate threat for a top 2 seed? Sure..

RiceOnTheRun
08-03-2013, 04:36 AM
Right, but your still ignoring the missed games. Does getting a healthy Shumpert for the whole year and Amare for 20 minutes per game not improve them as well?

Without Amare, we're basically working with a 60m payroll. Second seed isn't half bad when you're missing a "star" player for most of the season. I don't think Shumpert makes as much of an impact, because he returned to form rather quickly and didn't miss nearly as many games. Amare was dropping an efficient 14ppg and 5 rpg coming off the bench. You can't tell me that wouldn't have given the Knicks a much needed boost during their playoff slump.

Furymaker
08-03-2013, 04:43 AM
If you counted on those ifs , Lakers should of been the best team past season in NBA.
If you count on ifs this season , you can make a case for few teams being the best one in the NBA .
If Bynum , Varejao stay healthy , Kyrie , Waiters and Bennet improve and mash together , they could be the best
If Lebron goes down , Miami is not a top 4 seed in Eastern Conference.
If Melo goes down , Knicks aren't even in playoffs ( probably fighting for 7th or 8th seen with Cavs , Pistons , etc. )
If , if , if .

Based on past seasons , Bulls should be favourites , their team improved a lot since that time when they were 1st seed , they've replaced Bogans with Butler ( 14ppg , 7rpg , 3apg on very effective shooting with outstanding D - held Lebron to season low 43% ) , got shooters on bench in Tony Snell ( still a rookie , but he can shoot as he proved in collage and in SL ) , Murphy proved in SL he was more than just a shooter , he can bang down low as well , Dunleavy is on of the biggest piece they've got , he's twice as good player Korver ever was , around 40% 3pt shooter , underrated defender ( great length for both SG and SF + Thibs ... ) , can pass the ball , run the floor .Then there's great defender in Hinrich , Teague is not a rookie anymore , proved in SL we can seriously count on him .And last but most important piece is our MVP , league's MVP - Derrick Rose . Arguably top 5 player in the NBA , best PG in NBA ( when 100% healthy ) , should be vastly improved player , both physically and mentally , should be better passer , more efficient scorer , and with all these players stretching the floor for him none should doubt he will be better . Rose - Butler backcourt has so much potential , Butler in playoffs was huge , he can run the floor with Rose , he can stretch the floor for him , he can cut inside and he and Deng can slow down Wade and Lebron as well as anyone in NBA ( not to mention how well they'll handle other players not as good as these are ).

For me , Indiana is bigger threat to the Bulls than any other team , this time around Indiana will beat The Heat unless Oden joins them and comes back playing to his full potential .


So no , they are not overrated , just wait and see it for yourself .

Badluck33
08-03-2013, 07:27 AM
Derrick Rose is damaged goods. Brandon Jennings is the new king of the midwest. Boozer is getting older and still doesn't play defense (you have to prevent the other team from scoring to win games). Noah isn't an offensive threat (you need to score points to win a game) Nate Robinson is gone. KH12 will probably start on the DL again. Tony Snell will get 8 min/game. Jimmy Butler is a SG who is playing SF who went back to SG. Luol Deng has a wrist that he refuses to get medical attention on and is probably scotch taped together. Thibs is still super pissed off about Ron Adams getting fired. Taj still hasn't developed a solid jumper. Nazi is older than the dirt he sleeps in. M. Teague still has no idea on how to run an offense. Mike Dunleavy will probably request to be traded by February.

Over rated? I believe that I don't stand alone when I say the Bulls are a 9 seed.

#TankforParker

D-Block21-Chito
08-03-2013, 07:51 AM
Don't know but there is no reason to be looking over your shoulder for the knicks... Bulls are way better

Avenger20
08-03-2013, 08:26 AM
I would have to say absolutely not. With a healthy Rose they were a consistent number one seed and managed to play competitively against the Heat this year despite being decimated. Now, Indiana looks like they'll be better as do the Nets, so I don't think that this will be a walk in the park, but barring some significant injuries I see no reason to think that it's crazy for them to have a shot at a top seed.

IAmARanger18
08-03-2013, 08:31 AM
Derrick Rose is damaged goods. Brandon Jennings is the new king of the midwest. Boozer is getting older and still doesn't play defense (you have to prevent the other team from scoring to win games). Noah isn't an offensive threat (you need to score points to win a game) Nate Robinson is gone. KH12 will probably start on the DL again. Tony Snell will get 8 min/game. Jimmy Butler is a SG who is playing SF who went back to SG. Luol Deng has a wrist that he refuses to get medical attention on and is probably scotch taped together. Thibs is still super pissed off about Ron Adams getting fired. Taj still hasn't developed a solid jumper. Nazi is older than the dirt he sleeps in. M. Teague still has no idea on how to run an offense. Mike Dunleavy will probably request to be traded by February.

Over rated? I believe that I don't stand alone when I say the Bulls are a 9 seed.

#TankforParker

The best post i've seen all day haha

RLundi
08-03-2013, 08:39 AM
I think they'll be the third seed pretty easily.

Munkeysuit
08-03-2013, 10:01 AM
Honestly? NO they aren't overrated at all, in fact, I think people have forgotten how good they were before Rose went down. However, I do think Rose is putting tons of pressure on himself and his team by saying he's the best player in the league right now...I have no problem with players having supreme confidence in their abilities, but dissing Lebron like that? after Lebron had the season he had and coming out on top? MAN...D Rose need to recognize and give credit where its due, because the timing of it all makes him seem super bitter.

Gators123
08-03-2013, 10:31 AM
Derrick Rose is damaged goods. Brandon Jennings is the new king of the midwest. Boozer is getting older and still doesn't play defense (you have to prevent the other team from scoring to win games). Noah isn't an offensive threat (you need to score points to win a game) Nate Robinson is gone. KH12 will probably start on the DL again. Tony Snell will get 8 min/game. Jimmy Butler is a SG who is playing SF who went back to SG. Luol Deng has a wrist that he refuses to get medical attention on and is probably scotch taped together. Thibs is still super pissed off about Ron Adams getting fired. Taj still hasn't developed a solid jumper. Nazi is older than the dirt he sleeps in. M. Teague still has no idea on how to run an offense. Mike Dunleavy will probably request to be traded by February.

Over rated? I believe that I don't stand alone when I say the Bulls are a 9 seed.


#TankforParker

Don't be a fool. Thats Andre Drummond ;)

Captain Moroni
08-03-2013, 10:33 AM
Auto 1 or two seed ? No. Legitimate threat for a top 2 seed? Sure..

but so is Brooklyn, NYK, and Indy

Captain Moroni
08-03-2013, 10:36 AM
Don't know but there is no reason to be looking over your shoulder for the knicks... Bulls are way better

So the Knicks would be in front of them then?

dimgim
08-03-2013, 11:02 AM
Nothing overrated about the Bulls they are legit contenders and can beat anyone in the league including the Heat. But please lets not talk about the Knicks they've fallin behind Detroit IMO and will be lucky to get a sixth seed in the east.

Kashmir13579
08-03-2013, 11:23 AM
No. They aren't.

smood999
08-03-2013, 11:57 AM
the Bulls should regain their form from the last season that Rose played, I have more questions about the Pacers and Nets than the Bulls

We've seen what the Bulls are like with Rose.

The Pacers haven't won 50 games in 10 yrs now but are being predicted by many in the mid 50's and some high 50's. Does Hibbert continue from where he left off in the playoffs or go back to what he's been his entire career? Is Granger done?

The Nets questions are all about chemistry and health.

I don't see where all the questions with the Knicks are coming from. Everyone knows their flaws and what type of team they are...don't have many questions with them, unlike last season, besides how good or bad Bargarni will be.

effen5
08-03-2013, 12:27 PM
Silly question.

BALLER R
08-03-2013, 12:40 PM
So can I say that the Raptors are a playoff team this year with a healthy Lowry, Jonas and Fields, or naw?

LongIslandIcedZ
08-03-2013, 12:41 PM
Rose being a slight question mark is enough of a reason their not a 1-2 lock.

I still have them second though lol

KnickaBocka.44
08-03-2013, 01:18 PM
Yea but again, its Amare. How long is it going to take in those 20 mins per game for him to get hurt?

If he can provide 12 & 6 like you say then sure he would be doing a lot better than I'm giving him credit for but chances are that if he scores 12 a game, he's likely giving up 16 on the other end.

And I don't see Baragani having much of a role with NYK simply cause I'm wondering where he's going to find playing time. Carmelo and Amare start above him at PF and there are better options for Chandler's backup than Baragani I'm sure. Plus he would absolutely suck as a C.

I completely forgot about MWP, but yes you are right that he will likely contribute some for NY as well. I don't JR here cause he's not an addition or a change in the off season...he played for NYK last season.

I think you are underestimating Rose, the only person to have won MVP in the last 5 years other than LBJ, and if he can even return to 70% of his former self, he's easily a top 20 player in this league. That has a much higher impact than Shumpert/MWP/Amare.

We will just have to wait and see how Rose returns first.

I wasn't referring to J.R. Smith, I was talking about Tim Hardaway Jr.

The whole idea behind a minute limit is to prevent injury so the doctors obviously feel comfortable with the limit they have set and you know, being a Suns fan, that Amare never really gets hurt midseason (with the exception of his eye).

Bargnani is most likely going to start at PF. Amare's minute limit makes him a bench player and Melo can still play some minutes there when they go small. The thing most people don't realize about Bargnani is that he's a decent post defender and on offense he can bring opposing centers out of the paint and that opens up the lane a lot. There's no reason why he can't be an effective center for 5-10 minutes per game and KMart eats up the other minutes along with Amare.

I think you are overrating the impact of his return. They only fell down to a 5 seed without him for the whole year last year. I don't mean to say he's not a top 10 player, because he is. But I think it is pretty naive to say that just because the Bulls got him back, while losing Nate and Marco, they are surely better than the Knicks and Pacers.

Goose17
08-03-2013, 01:22 PM
They're at least a top 4 seed. East is weak.

smood999
08-03-2013, 01:39 PM
They're at least a top 4 seed. East is weak.

they're a top 4 seed in the East cause they're good...Bulls should be getting a lot more respect especially after last season

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 03:49 PM
Not really. They are gonna be scary next year. After watching Shump come into his own late in the season, I am pretty confident Derrick Rose is going to be the same exact Derrick Rose we are used to seeing, with an improved jumpshot. They will have a top defense, the best backup PG in the league, an improved Jimmy Butler, and Noah might be the most underrated player in the entire NBA.

BullySixChicago
08-03-2013, 04:00 PM
Who cares about these pre-season predictions? What matters is the play on the court if any of these nitwits could predict anything right they should have a home chair in the middle of Vegas in the sports betting parlor. All this yaking about who will finish where make no sense just play the games and that will determine everything because we know what opinions are like

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 04:32 PM
So can I say that the Raptors are a playoff team this year with a healthy Lowry, Jonas and Fields, or naw?

If you were a back to back 60 win 1 seed before they were injured, yea you could.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 04:33 PM
Who cares about these pre-season predictions? What matters is the play on the court if any of these nitwits could predict anything right they should have a home chair in the middle of Vegas in the sports betting parlor. All this yaking about who will finish where make no sense just play the games and that will determine everything because we know what opinions are like

Opinions are like - the engine that make discussion forums work. You must be in the wrong spot.

Chill_Will_24
08-03-2013, 04:51 PM
I think they are overrated. The measuring stick is and will be the Heat and they just dont have that second scorer/go to guy that can take the pressure off Rose. the Heat proved that they have no problems guarding Rose. Their defense is good enough to get them a really high seed with Rose in the lineup, possibly even the first seed. However in the playoffs when games matter the Bulls dont have the offense to keep up.

I dont really give them props for beating BKN because BKN was not built to succeed in the playoffs. The only team i felt the Nets could beat in the playoffs were the Knicks

Cubs Win
08-03-2013, 05:02 PM
I think they are overrated. The measuring stick is and will be the Heat and they just dont have that second scorer/go to guy that can take the pressure off Rose. the Heat proved that they have no problems guarding Rose. Their defense is good enough to get them a really high seed with Rose in the lineup, possibly even the first seed. However in the playoffs when games matter the Bulls dont have the offense to keep up.I dont really give them props for beating BKN because BKN was not built to succeed in the playoffs. The only team i felt the Nets could beat in the playoffs were the Knicks

The Bulls don't have a "2nd scorer" but what they do have is Deng-Boozer-Butler who can all put up 15+ a game individually, and go for 20-25 on some nights. Then Noah has his games offensively as well, albeit much more rare. I haven't been in the NBA forum much lately, but just from what I've heard in the news/other web sources, I wouldn't call the Bulls overrated yet. I always hear the sentiment that they will be a 2-4 seed in the regular season and I'm hoping they're really starting to fire on all cylinders come playoff time. Rose claims to be 100% again, so we'll see how healthy he reallly is, because obviously that will go a long way in determining how far the Bulls will go.

Cash
08-03-2013, 05:04 PM
I think they are overrated. The measuring stick is and will be the Heat and they just dont have that second scorer/go to guy that can take the pressure off Rose. the Heat proved that they have no problems guarding Rose. Their defense is good enough to get them a really high seed with Rose in the lineup, possibly even the first seed. However in the playoffs when games matter the Bulls dont have the offense to keep up.

I dont really give them props for beating BKN because BKN was not built to succeed in the playoffs. The only team i felt the Nets could beat in the playoffs were the Knicks

Well to be fair, you're comparing the Bulls of over two years ago to Miami. The last time Rose faced Miami in the playoffs was 10-11. Regular season, the Bulls really have their way with Miami every year. That doesn't mean much, but it means something. I agree the Bulls are really lacking that 2nd go to guy, which will ultimately be their demise this season, but i think the East is more up for grabs this year than it has been the last 3-4 years.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 05:05 PM
The Bulls don't have a "2nd scorer" but what they do have is Deng-Boozer-Butler who can all put up 15+ a game individually, and go for 20-25 on some nights. Then Noah has his games offensively as well, albeit much more rare. I haven't been in the NBA forum much lately, but just from what I've heard in the news/other web sources, I wouldn't call the Bulls overrated yet. I always hear the sentiment that they will be a 2-4 seed in the regular season and I'm hoping they're really starting to fire on all cylinders come playoff time. Rose claims to be 100% again, so we'll see how healthy he reallly is, because obviously that will go a long way in determining how far the Bulls will go.

I do think they are eventually going to need a 2nd player who can create offense on their own. All three of those guys need to be fed in the right spots to score. Most teams need two guys who can create shots by themselves. Even the Mavs had Barea to fill that role.

kozelkid
08-03-2013, 05:10 PM
Exactly. I have the Knicks & Nets better than the Bulls this year. Prove it to me before you hail them a top 3 team.

What do you mean "prove it"? They've proven it with back-to-back 75+% winning percentage before last season. And that's with Rose missing almost a combined 30 games in the second season. Nets and Knicks haven't even sniffed 70% last year.

What exactly makes this upcoming season much different? Unlike last season they actually have better depth now with the emergence of Butler and obviously a healthy Rose.

And that's not mentioning a Rose-less Bulls team with a regular season sweep of the Knicks or beating BKN in a best of 7.

If any team needs to "prove it", it's the Knicks because after their torrid start last season, they played like the same old streaky team that's far too reliant on their 3-pt shooting. Or the Nets with the number of new players they just added.

With healthy Rose (and when I say healthy, I'm saying playing maybe 85% of the games), Bulls are at LEAST a mid 50s win team. They've proven it for two seasons now.

KnickaBocka.44
08-03-2013, 05:16 PM
What do you mean "prove it"? They've proven it with back-to-back 75+% winning percentage before last season. And that's with Rose missing almost a combined 30 games in the second season. Nets and Knicks haven't even sniffed 70% last year.

What exactly makes this upcoming season much different? Unlike last season they actually have better depth now with the emergence of Butler and obviously a healthy Rose.

And that's not mentioning a Rose-less Bulls team with a regular season sweep of the Knicks or beating BKN in a best of 7.

If any team needs to "prove it", it's the Knicks because after their torrid start last season, they played like the same old streaky team that's far too reliant on their 3-pt shooting. Or the Nets with the number of new players they just added.

With healthy Rose (and when I say healthy, I'm saying playing maybe 85% of the games), Bulls are at LEAST a mid 50s win team. They've proven it for two seasons now.

This isn't really true. Their depth is actually worse now. They have Butler, who's going to be a hell of a player and he definitely should be their starter at the 2, but they lost Bellineni who was pretty important. They also lost Nate, who was pretty much the heart of that team last year.

sportsfan222
08-03-2013, 05:29 PM
bulls are being extremely underrated.

all i hear people talk about are the nets with their moves, the pacers how great they are going to be, the heat of course, then teams in the west like the rockets with there big move in getting howard, or the lovefest with the clippers how great they will be, etc.

the bulls assuming healthy not only will be better of course, they will finish with the best record in the nba. you can quote me on that. assuming health of course, derrick rose of course the most important health concern.

so no, i do not think the bulls are being overrated, i think they are being underrated by many people, many of whom are already putting the pacers past them in the east.

east fb knicks
08-03-2013, 05:35 PM
This isn't really true. Their depth is actually worse now. They have Butler, who's going to be a hell of a player and he definitely should be their starter at the 2, but they lost Bellineni who was pretty important. They also lost Nate, who was pretty much the heart of that team last year.

^ this and not to mention who is there back up 5 I predict the bulls won't even win their division the pacers have made some good moves this offseason and they are getting granger back

east fb knicks
08-03-2013, 05:38 PM
bulls are being extremely underrated.

all i hear people talk about are the nets with their moves, the pacers how great they are going to be, the heat of course, then teams in the west like the rockets with there big move in getting howard, or the lovefest with the clippers how great they will be, etc.

the bulls assuming healthy not only will be better of course, they will finish with the best record in the nba. you can quote me on that. assuming health of course, derrick rose of course the most important health concern.

so no, i do not think the bulls are being overrated, i think they are being underrated by many people, many of whom are already putting the pacers past them in the east.

:facepalm: no

chitownbulls
08-03-2013, 05:43 PM
:facepalm: no

Why not? They did it two years in a row, and now they're entering with a better team than either of those years. Believe it or not our bench did get better..

Hinrich is a better defender than Watson, and a better leader coming off the bench.

Butler replaced Bogans which is a huge improvement, and we drafted Snell who is very capable of being a good defender with a good shot. He is a definite improvement over Ronnie Brewer who also held us back offensively.

Dunleavy is much better than Korver or Bellinelli, because he can pass, handle the ball, is a much better defensive player than either of the two and can shoot just as well.

Add all that with an improved Joakim Noah, a healthy Deng and Rose, and a Carlos Boozer who finally understands his role on the team. I predict at least a 57 win season from them.

sammyvine
08-03-2013, 05:44 PM
Exactly. I have the Knicks & Nets better than the Bulls this year. Prove it to me before you hail them a top 3 team.

knicks lol

the bulls were the no.1 seed in the nba in 2011

lol, please
08-03-2013, 05:47 PM
Bulls are underrated if anything.

KnickaBocka.44
08-03-2013, 05:57 PM
Why not? They did it two years in a row, and now they're entering with a better team than either of those years. Believe it or not our bench did get better..

Hinrich is a better defender than Watson, and a better leader coming off the bench.

Butler replaced Bogans which is a huge improvement, and we drafted Snell who is very capable of being a good defender with a good shot. He is a definite improvement over Ronnie Brewer who also held us back offensively.

Dunleavy is much better than Korver or Bellinelli, because he can pass, handle the ball, is a much better defensive player than either of the two and can shoot just as well.

Add all that with an improved Joakim Noah, a healthy Deng and Rose, and a Carlos Boozer who finally understands his role on the team. I predict at least a 57 win season from them.

You are talking about improvements over a 2 year span. The Knicks, Nets and Pacers have all gotten much better since then as well.

slashsnake
08-03-2013, 05:58 PM
I don’t think they are overrated AS LONG as Derrick Rose returns to his previous form. Missing Rose and also having Noah out/hurt for a while, and they still won a playoff series vs. the 4 seed in the West.
Sure, there is some hype there, but I could see them as a serious contender against Miami in the East. Remember, with a healthy Rose the year before, they had the best record in the league.

smiddy012
08-03-2013, 06:03 PM
How can Chicago be "overrated" when they're practically a new team from past seasons? Here are some key differences between the upcoming lineup and what it's been the last 3 seasons:

1 - Jimmy Butler. He is no Keith Bogans to say the least.. or Brewer, or Korver... He's a young, athletic, elite defending wing who developed a very good 3-pointer post AS-break. He's better around the rim than anyone on the Bulls not named Rose, and he gets to the line better than any Bull (even though he so damn young). What particularly is so special about this kid is the progress he's made on the offensive side of the court with so little experience. He is the Bull's future SG or SF. He kind of reminds me of a young Deng but better on the offensive side, not to mention much more athletic and strong.

2 - Boozer's and Noah's best two seasons as a Bull where last season. And I'm not really speaking from a statistical perspective, their overall games just grew. Boozer developed better rhythm and consistentcy on offense (while slightly improving defense), and Noah's offense and shooting got better.

3a - HEALTH. When Noah was healthy last season he was more dominant than he's ever been. Even at this later stage in his career he is still blooming. Injuries have stunted his growth as a player unfortunately.

3b - Rose, Deng, & Hinrich are all coming back!!! Nuff said.

4 - Dunleavy > Marco or Nate. Dunleavy's a more well-rounded, intelligent, and consistently productive player than those two. Though having Nate as a 4th guard would've been perfect I must admit.

5. When we lost Korver, Watson, & Brewer everyone thought we lost our depth. When we lost Nate and Marco everyone thought we lost our depth. Bulls FO knows how to create depth though as time has shown.

Rose/Hinrich/Teague
Butler/Snell
Deng/Dunleavy
Boozer/Gibson/Murphy
Noah/Nazr

Just so we all can see the roster being critiqued. Essentially we got 9 solid/proven players with 3 rookies. We may sign another big or wing this off-season.

I said this a loooooong time ago. But losing Rose for the season was nearly the best thing that could have happened for the rest of the player's development. Boozer and Noah both improved their game last season, meanwhile Jimmy emerged as a likely future all-star caliber player. Throw in a healthy Rose, Hinrich, & Deng (and Noah) on top of that and this is the most complete team we've had since MJ's Bulls.

IF the Bull's starting 5 stays relatively healthy throughout the season, you can't put a ceiling on what this team can do. In that case they are underrated.

IF the Bull's starting 5 doesnt stay relatively healthy throughout the season, then they are presently overrated.

I think that about sums it up.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 06:06 PM
To me, this is the nicest Chicago team yet. Even better than the Asik team IMO. Butler at the 2 and Kirk as a backup who can play the 2 is huge for them. If Noah stays healthy my money is on them getting the 1 seed again. They will have a scary defense this year.

Rndy
08-03-2013, 06:07 PM
I love PSD Bulls were screwed last year because they lost their bench players and the new ones suck! but now those guys are great and we're screwed we lost them!

Cubs Win
08-03-2013, 06:14 PM
I do think they are eventually going to need a 2nd player who can create offense on their own. All three of those guys need to be fed in the right spots to score. Most teams need two guys who can create shots by themselves. Even the Mavs had Barea to fill that role.

Definitely agree that a legit 2nd scorer is something that we pretty much do need. But since it's something we don't have right now, I was just listing our current situation. Which I'd say is close to as good as it gets for not having that 2nd guy.

KnickaBocka.44
08-03-2013, 06:17 PM
How can Chicago be "overrated" when they're practically a new team from past seasons? Here are some key differences between the upcoming lineup and what it's been the last 3 seasons:

1 - Jimmy Butler. He is no Keith Bogans to say the least.. or Brewer, or Korver... He's a young, athletic, elite defending wing who developed a very good 3-pointer post AS-break. He's better around the rim than anyone on the Bulls not named Rose, and he gets to the line better than any Bull (even though he so damn young). What particularly is so special about this kid is the progress he's made on the offensive side of the court with so little experience. He is the Bull's future SG or SF. He kind of reminds me of a young Deng but better on the offensive side, not to mention much more athletic and strong.

2 - Boozer's and Noah's best two seasons as a Bull where last season. And I'm not really speaking from a statistical perspective, their overall games just grew. Boozer developed better rhythm and consistentcy on offense (while slightly improving defense), and Noah's offense and shooting got better.

3a - HEALTH. When Noah was healthy last season he was more dominant than he's ever been. Even at this later stage in his career he is still blooming. Injuries have stunted his growth as a player unfortunately.

3b - Rose, Deng, & Hinrich are all coming back!!! Nuff said.

4 - Dunleavy > Marco or Nate. Dunleavy's a more well-rounded, intelligent, and consistently productive player than those two. Though having Nate as a 4th guard would've been perfect I must admit.

5. When we lost Korver, Watson, & Brewer everyone thought we lost our depth. When we lost Nate and Marco everyone thought we lost our depth. Bulls FO knows how to create depth though as time has shown.

Rose/Hinrich/Teague
Brewer/Snell
Deng/Dunleavy
Boozer/Gibson/Murphy
Noah/Nazr

Just so we all can see the roster being critiqued. Essentially we got 9 solid/proven players with 3 rookies. We may sign another big or wing this off-season.

I said this a loooooong time ago. But losing Rose for the season was nearly the best thing that could have happened for the rest of the player's development. Boozer and Noah both improved their game last season, meanwhile Jimmy emerged as a likely future all-star caliber player. Throw in a healthy Rose, Hinrich, & Deng (and Noah) on top of that and this is the most complete team we've had since MJ's Bulls.

IF the Bull's starting 5 stays relatively healthy throughout the season, you can't put a ceiling on what this team can do. In that case they are underrated.

IF the Bull's starting 5 doesnt stay relatively healthy throughout the season, then they are presently overrated.

I think that about sums it up.

I think you mean Butler there, right?

cubs1st
08-03-2013, 06:19 PM
I think Kidd needs to prove himself as an NBA head coach before I anoint the Nets as Division champs or even a top 3 seed. Too many moving parts that have never played with each other. (See Lakers, los Angeles Cirqa 2012-13)


Agree 100%
I also think Indiana needs to prove that their playoff run was not a fluke. People just saw them reach the ECF and assume they are a top 3 seed as well. If the Knicks had beaten Indy last year would people give the Knicks the same respect? Uhhhh No they would not.

So do you think the Knicks are getting a top 2 seed? People would give the Knicks more respect if they had beaten the Pacers, absolutely.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 06:25 PM
Definitely agree that a legit 2nd scorer is something that we pretty much do need. But since it's something we don't have right now, I was just listing our current situation. Which I'd say is close to as good as it gets for not having that 2nd guy.

And I don't necessarily think you MUST have that to win it all. I just think its tough to overcome not having it. I think any team that is good enough can win it all. Detroit didn't really have those options and the Mavs are sort of a reach because even Barea would require some screens and action to get his. Pick and roll game with Boozer could be enough of a '2nd scorer'.

koreancabbage
08-03-2013, 06:33 PM
I would take Chicago over any other team in the East other than Miami.

chitownbulls
08-03-2013, 06:38 PM
You are talking about improvements over a 2 year span. The Knicks, Nets and Pacers have all gotten much better since then as well.

Yes but they made improvements as a number one seed and have no reason to be considered worse than they were then. The knicks nets and pacers were mediocre teams getting much better, if anything they all have much more to prove.

carlthack
08-03-2013, 06:45 PM
Im not sure if the team is overrated but Derrick Rose is most definetily overrated. The Bulls are just as good without him as they are with him.

TheLegend
08-03-2013, 06:46 PM
The Bulls will be very hungry. Rose is going to be such a boost for this team, on the court and mentally. The Bulls know they can compete without Rosť, and his return will make them just that more confident. I can tell a lot of you don't know what's going to happen until it happens. Miami is going to coast this year. They will not get the top seed, and maybe not even 2. Why? Because they are a confident championship team and they know they don't need it necessarily. The Key for Miami this year, and they know this, is a healthy Wade. That means way more than HCA. They know what a healthy wade means. What some of you don't understand is that whatever seed a team is predicted at, or ends up with, doesn't mean that determines how good they are. Miami can get 3 seed and still will be the team to beat. The Bulls and Pacers will be hungry all year and I expect them to fight it out for the top two seeds. There is no reason for Miami to play balls out all year. The Key is a healthy wade. When he's not, they are beatable and it shows. The Nets? That's paper fantasy right now. They may end up a six seed. Pierce and KG are major question marks. What do they really have left ?

TheLegend
08-03-2013, 06:47 PM
Im not sure if the team is overrated but Derrick Rose is most definetily overrated. The Bulls are just as good without him as they are with him.

Dumbest post In here.

D-Leethal
08-03-2013, 06:59 PM
Im not sure if the team is overrated but Derrick Rose is most definetily overrated. The Bulls are just as good without him as they are with him.

LOL, stick to hockey bro.

smiddy012
08-03-2013, 07:01 PM
I think you mean Butler there, right?

Durr.. Yeah. Thanks for pointing that out!

smiddy012
08-03-2013, 07:03 PM
Im not sure if the team is overrated but Derrick Rose is most definetily overrated. The Bulls are just as good without him as they are with him.

You might as well just say "I don't know **** about the Bulls team." Would get the same point across.

smiddy012
08-03-2013, 07:06 PM
The Bulls will be very hungry. Rose is going to be such a boost for this team, on the court and mentally. The Bulls know they can compete without Rosť, and his return will make them just that more confident. I can tell a lot of you don't know what's going to happen until it happens. Miami is going to coast this year. They will not get the top seed, and maybe not even 2. Why? Because they are a confident championship team and they know they don't need it necessarily. The Key for Miami this year, and they know this, is a healthy Wade. That means way more than HCA. They know what a healthy wade means. What some of you don't understand is that whatever seed a team is predicted at, or ends up with, doesn't mean that determines how good they are. Miami can get 3 seed and still will be the team to beat. The Bulls and Pacers will be hungry all year and I expect them to fight it out for the top two seeds. There is no reason for Miami to play balls out all year. The Key is a healthy wade. When he's not, they are beatable and it shows. The Nets? That's paper fantasy right now. They may end up a six seed. Pierce and KG are major question marks. What do they really have left ?

Good points man. Could definitely see Miami sacrificing the first seed to save energy and health. Whereas the Bulls or Pacers practically need HCA to have any chance of beating Miami.

But Miami has to know that, if the Bulls and Pacers stay healthy this season, that this will be the Heat's biggest test yet.

WadeKobe
08-03-2013, 07:29 PM
I would take Chicago over any other team in the East other than Miami.

:nod:

Captain Moroni
08-03-2013, 07:41 PM
So do you think the Knicks are getting a top 2 seed? People would give the Knicks more respect if they had beaten the Pacers, absolutely.

No, I dont think anyone is a lock for the 2 seed behind Miami. Can the Knicks get the 2 seed again like last year? Absolutely. So can Brooklyn. Indy, or Chicago.

sportsfan222
08-03-2013, 07:44 PM
Im not sure if the team is overrated but Derrick Rose is most definetily overrated. The Bulls are just as good without him as they are with him.

ya, just as good.

with him= back to back seasons of best record in nba, dominating every team in there way.

without him= struggled in a horrible east to get the 5th seed, and lost to a bunch of bottom tier teams throughout the season in blowouts.

yup, bulls are just as good without rose as they r with. get real.

Captain Moroni
08-03-2013, 07:46 PM
Yes but they made improvements as a number one seed and have no reason to be considered worse than they were then. The knicks nets and pacers were mediocre teams getting much better, if anything they all have much more to prove.

This logic is flawed. The team that led the NBA in 2011-12 lockout shortened season had Asik. That was a big loss. Last year "over achieving" Rose-less squad had nate and bellinelli. Just because you might think Dunleavy is better does not make it so.

You mention mediacre teams getting better like that is a bad thing. You assume that all Bulls player losses were good and all additions are icing on the cake that these outgoing players added too.

IversonIsKrazy
08-03-2013, 07:51 PM
I dont rly think they have a free 1-2 seed pass. Everyone just considers them a legit threat in the East, which they are. I got them & Indy fighting for that #2, but I mean if Rose is back to his MVP-self, I don't see why they can't have a 60-win #1 seed season like they did 2 & 3 years ago.

lukass
08-03-2013, 07:58 PM
if DRose comes back 100% they'll finish 2nd maybe even 1st

Captain Moroni
08-03-2013, 09:00 PM
anything can happen, gonna be a blast watching it all go down.

Captain Moroni
08-03-2013, 09:02 PM
people will once again be proven right or wrong.

east fb knicks
08-03-2013, 09:46 PM
Yes but they made improvements as a number one seed and have no reason to be considered worse than they were then. The knicks nets and pacers were mediocre teams getting much better, if anything they all have much more to prove.

nets maybe but hands down the pacers are a better team they actually have a bench hinrich sucks on offense sorry but nobody has brought that up THEY HAVE NO BACK UP 5 they don't even have a 2nd scoring option nor do they have a spark off the bench like they had last year with nate I know psd is full of homers but how the hell can you say they are even a top 3 seed with all those holes their biggest mistake was letting nate go even with rose they will have trouble scoring at times and let me get this straight you guys are telling me that the bulls will heavily rely on d rose coming off a major knee injury lmao i'm not jinxing anybody but unless he gets help he might reinjure himself taking on that workload its a recipe for disaster if you ask me but don't get me wrong all the bulls need is a 2nd scoring option to be back to what they were nobody great just a oj mayo type and they good I see them making some moves at the deadline but as of now they are ok 4th seed at best

east fb knicks
08-03-2013, 09:52 PM
if DRose comes back 100% they'll finish 2nd maybe even 1st

omg do you people even watch the nba d rose alone wasn't the reason they won 60 games they had a sick bench cj Watson looked like a stud back then brewer was still a good player and most importantly THEY HAD ASIK who was the best back up 5 then and still is behind d12 you people are making rose out to be some basketball god even if healthy no way do they crack 60 wins unless they make some changes

chitownbulls
08-03-2013, 10:16 PM
This logic is flawed. The team that led the NBA in 2011-12 lockout shortened season had Asik. That was a big loss. Last year "over achieving" Rose-less squad had nate and bellinelli. Just because you might think Dunleavy is better does not make it so.

You mention mediacre teams getting better like that is a bad thing. You assume that all Bulls player losses were good and all additions are icing on the cake that these outgoing players added too.


You do know that Asik averaged 14 minutes a game right? That was with an injured Noah..Imagine how much playing time he would get with a completely healthy Noah, not a lot. Not to mention all he did was bring a little extra defense, but this team has proven to maintain its elite defense even without him. I'm sorry but his loss isn't as big as you make it out to be.

And yea Nate was important during the season, but comeon he is not essential in the least bit to this team. Even if we kept him, he would get no play time with Derrick Rose back. He is an undersized version of Ben Gordon, outside of a few good games here and there all he did was fall down and turn the ball over. Bellinelli brought absolutely no defense, they definitely had their flaws.

And you have to be blind to not see the improvement that the Bulls had with Dunleavy over Bellinelli. Dunleavy shoots better, handles better, is more intelligent and most of all brings more defense. So yes, I believe signing Dunleavy was better as do most knowledgable fans around the league.

lukass
08-03-2013, 10:17 PM
omg do you people even watch the nba d rose alone wasn't the reason they won 60 games they had a sick bench cj Watson looked like a stud back then brewer was still a good player and most importantly THEY HAD ASIK who was the best back up 5 then and still is behind d12 you people are making rose out to be some basketball god even if healthy no way do they crack 60 wins unless they make some changes

your an idiot. that was just a mess of words

TheLegend
08-03-2013, 10:20 PM
Good points man. Could definitely see Miami sacrificing the first seed to save energy and health. Whereas the Bulls or Pacers practically need HCA to have any chance of beating Miami.

But Miami has to know that, if the Bulls and Pacers stay healthy this season, that this will be the Heat's biggest test yet.

Thanks... Miami has won the last two ships, and has the best player in the world. Why not coast and focus on a healthy Wade? They know when they are right, they are tough to beat with HCA or not. The bulls and pacers will simply be hungrier IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if its Bulls and pacers are in the ECF. Everybody picking Miami but the pacers took them to 7 and the Spurs had them beat. A 3peat is possible but at some point something is NOT going to go ur way and the Heat is way past due. I have watched their run the last few years and this team comes up with every key rebound, 3, lose ball, call, or whatever. But they are due. A lot of things went right for them the last two years.

I just see the Bulls being overwhelming this year. Defensively they have the tools to be a real juggernaut. Jimmy B took a step last year. But I think some bulls fans do have him overrated, his defense is elite, it's his offense that will make a difference for this team. Thats going to be the xfactor. If Jimmy takes another step, watch out! The Bulls will be a very scary team. Expect Hinrich to stay healthier in a reserve role, something his body is more suited for vs starter minutes. Dunleavy was a nice pick up, but that also tells me that E. Murphy may be a bust. We will see though.

chitownbulls
08-03-2013, 10:23 PM
nets maybe but hands down the pacers are a better team they actually have a bench hinrich sucks on offense sorry but nobody has brought that up THEY HAVE NO BACK UP 5 they don't even have a 2nd scoring option nor do they have a spark off the bench like they had last year with nate I know psd is full of homers but how the hell can you say they are even a top 3 seed with all those holes their biggest mistake was letting nate go even with rose they will have trouble scoring at times and let me get this straight you guys are telling me that the bulls will heavily rely on d rose coming off a major knee injury lmao i'm not jinxing anybody but unless he gets help he might reinjure himself taking on that workload its a recipe for disaster if you ask me but don't get me wrong all the bulls need is a 2nd scoring option to be back to what they were nobody great just a oj mayo type and they good I see them making some moves at the deadline but as of now they are ok 4th seed at best

Hinrich was never brought in to be a scorer for the Bulls..He was brought in to run the bench, which is exactly what he does. Before he got injured in the playoffs, the Bulls were up 3-1 cruising to their first round victory. If he never got injured they might have decisively won 4-1.

And to the point about a second scoring option, I agree its a big flaw but during the regular season it won't nearly matter as much as it would in the playoffs. Having a player that can drop 23+ and two players who can put up 16+ consistently is enough to pull out wins with our defense.

And believe it or not Asik was not that important in our seasons! He wasn't this big defensive anchor everyone made him out to be. He wasn't an important sixth man. He came in and gave the defense an extra lift when Noah was injured, and even at that he barely averaged many minutes. When Noah is healthy he really would not have contributed much to make a big impact.

kozelkid
08-03-2013, 10:33 PM
This isn't really true. Their depth is actually worse now. They have Butler, who's going to be a hell of a player and he definitely should be their starter at the 2, but they lost Bellineni who was pretty important. They also lost Nate, who was pretty much the heart of that team last year.

They replaced Belinelli with Dunleavy. At worst, it's even. And while I love what Nate did for us, I think we can agree that Rose playing consistently 35mpg or so more than alleviates any questions regarding depth at the 1.

The biggest question mark is center. Like last year. That said, their perimeter depth is easily better this year than even their first two years. The only question mark that remains is how well Bulls can maintain the 10mpg or so that Noah needs to be sitting.

east fb knicks
08-03-2013, 10:42 PM
your an idiot. that was just a mess of words
thanx :D

Hinrich was never brought in to be a scorer for the Bulls..He was brought in to run the bench, which is exactly what he does. Before he got injured in the playoffs, the Bulls were up 3-1 cruising to their first round victory. If he never got injured they might have decisively won 4-1.

And to the point about a second scoring option, I agree its a big flaw but during the regular season it won't nearly matter as much as it would in the playoffs. Having a player that can drop 23+ and two players who can put up 16+ consistently is enough to pull out wins with our defense.

And believe it or not Asik was not that important in our seasons! He wasn't this big defensive anchor everyone made him out to be. He wasn't an important sixth man. He came in and gave the defense an extra lift when Noah was injured, and even at that he barely averaged many minutes. When Noah is healthy he really would not have contributed much to make a big impact.

ok the nets weren't that good you guys only won one against the heat and you solidified my point hinrich is good on d but he sucks on o asik was very important why do you think noah was hurt in the playoffs he was overused hey i'm not saying they are going to suck but everybody is just handing them the 2nd seed when my knicks deserve it but if the bulls pull off a trade for alridge or somebody of that impact i'll give it to them but everybody bringing up stuff from 2 years ago is pointless heck amare was a decent player 2 years ago but we talking bout today real talk I need to see rose play first and even still I got the knicks and pacers ahead of them who have both improved drastically since two years ago

D1JM
08-03-2013, 11:33 PM
I love PSD Bulls were screwed last year because they lost their bench players and the new ones suck! but now those guys are great and we're screwed we lost them!

exactly. we weren't even supposed to make the playoffs last year :laugh2:

ramsizzle
08-03-2013, 11:53 PM
thanx :D


ok the nets weren't that good you guys only won one against the heat and you solidified my point hinrich is good on d but he sucks on o asik was very important why do you think noah was hurt in the playoffs he was overused hey i'm not saying they are going to suck but everybody is just handing them the 2nd seed when my knicks deserve it but if the bulls pull off a trade for alridge or somebody of that impact i'll give it to them but everybody bringing up stuff from 2 years ago is pointless heck amare was a decent player 2 years ago but we talking bout today real talk I need to see rose play first and even still I got the knicks and pacers ahead of them who have both improved drastically since two years ago

The bulls would beat your Knicks in a series with or without rosť. Stop.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 12:30 AM
people that are insecure, attack others because they cant have a discussion that they might actually not agree with.

Why is suggesting the Bulls might be over rated such a big deal?

I just think that so much is riding on a player who needs explosiveness to be effective coming off a MAJOR knee surgery.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 12:38 AM
nets maybe but hands down the pacers are a better team they actually have a bench hinrich sucks on offense sorry but nobody has brought that up THEY HAVE NO BACK UP 5 they don't even have a 2nd scoring option nor do they have a spark off the bench like they had last year with nate I know psd is full of homers but how the hell can you say they are even a top 3 seed with all those holes their biggest mistake was letting nate go even with rose they will have trouble scoring at times and let me get this straight you guys are telling me that the bulls will heavily rely on d rose coming off a major knee injury lmao i'm not jinxing anybody but unless he gets help he might reinjure himself taking on that workload its a recipe for disaster if you ask me but don't get me wrong all the bulls need is a 2nd scoring option to be back to what they were nobody great just a oj mayo type and they good I see them making some moves at the deadline but as of now they are ok 4th seed at best


The Bulls need to get a second scoring option to get back where they were? How is that when the perceived second scoring option never existed ? Oh let me guess, was it ASIK, the end all be all ?
Maybe, the bulls dont have this perceived second scoring option next to Rose, but they do have two ALLSTARS on the roster. Nate Robinson is not a second scoring option. I love him, but he cant be considered a second scoring option when he and Rose can barely play together because they are both Pgs!

Right now TAJ is the backup Center. Hinrich wasnt intended to be a full time starter last season. His role got kinda moshed but still played huge in theplayoffs before he went down playing 60 MINUTES in a game 4 victory. Yeah , he will be coming the bench.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 12:47 AM
thanx :D


ok the nets weren't that good you guys only won one against the heat and you solidified my point hinrich is good on d but he sucks on o asik was very important why do you think noah was hurt in the playoffs he was overused hey i'm not saying they are going to suck but everybody is just handing them the 2nd seed when my knicks deserve it but if the bulls pull off a trade for alridge or somebody of that impact i'll give it to them but everybody bringing up stuff from 2 years ago is pointless heck amare was a decent player 2 years ago but we talking bout today real talk I need to see rose play first and even still I got the knicks and pacers ahead of them who have both improved drastically since two years ago

Dont make it a Knicks vs bulls thing because its not. Dont act like the Bulls are taking whats rightfully urs, because it not.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 01:01 AM
people that are insecure, attack others because they cant have a discussion that they might actually not agree with.

Why is suggesting the Bulls might be over rated such a big deal?

I just think that so much is riding on a player who needs explosiveness to be effective coming off a MAJOR knee surgery.

Drose doesnt rely on any one thing to be as good as he is.

east fb knicks
08-04-2013, 01:11 AM
your an idiot. that was just a mess of words


The bulls would beat your Knicks in a series with or without rosť. Stop.

without rose :laugh: you just made my day

with rose we will see in a couple months

east fb knicks
08-04-2013, 01:32 AM
Dont make it a Knicks vs bulls thing because its not. Dont act like the Bulls are taking whats rightfully urs, because it not.

it's not a bulls knicks thing its a bulls pacers thing you guys aren't even the best team in your division lmao :layup:

TheLegend
08-04-2013, 01:34 AM
thanx :D


ok the nets weren't that good you guys only won one against the heat and you solidified my point hinrich is good on d but he sucks on o asik was very important why do you think noah was hurt in the playoffs he was overused hey i'm not saying they are going to suck but everybody is just handing them the 2nd seed when my knicks deserve it but if the bulls pull off a trade for alridge or somebody of that impact i'll give it to them but everybody bringing up stuff from 2 years ago is pointless heck amare was a decent player 2 years ago but we talking bout today real talk I need to see rose play first and even still I got the knicks and pacers ahead of them who have both improved drastically since two years ago

Knicks deserve the 2 seed? How when they couldn't even beat the bulls without rosť. Then lost to the pacers with HCA. Knicks suck. And it's not deserved its EARNED!!! But that's the mentality of a typical Knicks fan.

Cubby
08-04-2013, 01:58 AM
your an idiot. that was just a mess of words
thanx :D

Hinrich was never brought in to be a scorer for the Bulls..He was brought in to run the bench, which is exactly what he does. Before he got injured in the playoffs, the Bulls were up 3-1 cruising to their first round victory. If he never got injured they might have decisively won 4-1.

And to the point about a second scoring option, I agree its a big flaw but during the regular season it won't nearly matter as much as it would in the playoffs. Having a player that can drop 23+ and two players who can put up 16+ consistently is enough to pull out wins with our defense.

And believe it or not Asik was not that important in our seasons! He wasn't this big defensive anchor everyone made him out to be. He wasn't an important sixth man. He came in and gave the defense an extra lift when Noah was injured, and even at that he barely averaged many minutes. When Noah is healthy he really would not have contributed much to make a big impact.

ok the nets weren't that good you guys only won one against the heat and you solidified my point hinrich is good on d but he sucks on o asik was very important why do you think noah was hurt in the playoffs he was overused hey i'm not saying they are going to suck but everybody is just handing them the 2nd seed when my knicks deserve it but if the bulls pull off a trade for alridge or somebody of that impact i'll give it to them but everybody bringing up stuff from 2 years ago is pointless heck amare was a decent player 2 years ago but we talking bout today real talk I need to see rose play first and even still I got the knicks and pacers ahead of them who have both improved drastically since two years ago

Ever here of a period?

Cubby
08-04-2013, 01:59 AM
Dont make it a Knicks vs bulls thing because its not. Dont act like the Bulls are taking whats rightfully urs, because it not.

it's not a bulls knicks thing its a bulls pacers thing you guys aren't even the best team in your division lmao :layup:

Pacers are definitely not better than the Bulls.

east fb knicks
08-04-2013, 02:07 AM
Knicks deserve the 2 seed? How when they couldn't even beat the bulls without rosť. Then lost to the pacers with HCA. Knicks suck. And it's not deserved its EARNED!!! But that's the mentality of a typical Knicks fan.

weren't we the 2nd seed last year how do you guys deserve it more than us and I didn't say we got the 2nd seed I also said the pacers are good too so I see us as a top 3 with the bulls on the outside but who knows we haven't played one game yet im so excited for this year

jp611
08-04-2013, 02:11 AM
People have some short term memory loss

Bostonjorge
08-04-2013, 02:17 AM
I got bulls getting the 3rd seed losing to Cleveland in 1st round.

jp611
08-04-2013, 02:19 AM
I got bulls getting the 3rd seed losing to Cleveland in 1st round.

:laugh:

Purugskid
08-04-2013, 02:29 AM
As long as Thibs is there, the Bulls will be atop the East for the Regular Season.

That man hates losing any game.

Hawkeye15
08-04-2013, 02:48 AM
Bulls should win 55-59 games this season. Good enough for 2-3 seed. And they will be a tough out in the playoffs.

effen5
08-04-2013, 03:17 AM
So the pacers are better than the bulls because they won 5 games more than the bulls without Derrick rose and plethora of injuries? Oh ok.

effen5
08-04-2013, 03:26 AM
without rose :laugh: you just made my day

with rose we will see in a couple months

Didn't the bulls sweep you guys without rose last year?

jp611
08-04-2013, 03:30 AM
The NBA Forum is cute

east fb knicks
08-04-2013, 03:47 AM
So the pacers are better than the bulls because they won 5 games more than the bulls without Derrick rose and plethora of injuries? Oh ok.
no imo they are better because they have hibbert plus they probably have the best depth in the league not to mention granger is coming back and this is coming from a knicks fan I hate the pacers but they will be a top 3 seed next year

Didn't the bulls sweep you guys without rose last year?
yeah you guys did no excuses but the reg season and playoffs are two different things we played indy good in the reg season and lost to them in the playoffs

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 04:13 AM
it's not a bulls knicks thing its a bulls pacers thing you guys aren't even the best team in your division lmao :layup:

You are the one who said the Knicks deserve a number two seed.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 04:18 AM
The Bulls have a better starting lineup than the Pacers eastfbknicks. Is that what u wanna hear? Does your team have a better starting lineup than the Pacers since all of a sudden its about them? That the bulls lol 'bench' is whats holding them back from top seed consideration when their starting lineup can be considered elite by conference standards..

Bostonjorge
08-04-2013, 04:23 AM
Hibbert vs Noah - hibbert better overall

West vs boozer - west better defender and rebounder and equal on offensive

Granger vs deng - equal deng upper hand on D and granger on Offense

George vs butler - George better scorer and defender

Hill vs rose - rose better on offense and hill better on D

Pacers better team by far

effen5
08-04-2013, 04:26 AM
Hibbert vs Noah - hibbert better overall

West vs boozer - west better defender and rebounder and equal on offensive

Granger vs deng - equal deng upper hand on D and granger on Offense

George vs butler - George better scorer and defender

Hill vs rose - rose better on offense and hill better on D

Pacers better team by far

Yea because this is exactly how you compare teams :facepalm:

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 04:36 AM
Hibbert vs Noah - hibbert better overall

West vs boozer - west better defender and rebounder and equal on offensive

Granger vs deng - equal deng upper hand on D and granger on Offense

George vs butler - George better scorer and defender

Hill vs rose - rose better on offense and hill better on D

Pacers better team by far

Im still counting 2 allstars and an mvp caliber player vs 1 allstar. Anyone else?

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 04:42 AM
Per 36 BOOZER is a better scorer than paul george. boom.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 04:54 AM
Yea because this is exactly how you compare teams :facepalm:

Yeah. Its doesnt even have any real scale. Some players are just better on d or offense and he weighs it anyway he wants.

Goose17
08-04-2013, 05:47 AM
they're a top 4 seed in the East cause they're good...Bulls should be getting a lot more respect especially after last season

I agree. My point was the East is weak, they have very little competition. For anyone to suggest they'll go lower than 4th is crazy. Without Rose they're potentially top 4-5. Never mind with him.

Bostonjorge
08-04-2013, 05:50 AM
Im still counting 2 allstars and an mvp caliber player vs 1 allstar. Anyone else?

Rose was MVP last year? If u mean past accomplishments then pacers have 3 all starts in George, granger and west. Hibbert should also be the starting C this year. And if your only going off of last year wasn't rose scared to play because he didn't want to be the next Oden.

jp611
08-04-2013, 06:06 AM
George Hill better than Rose on Defense

My ****ing sides hurt tonight. PSD is on a ****ing roll

:laugh2:

jp611
08-04-2013, 06:09 AM
Rose was MVP last year? If u mean past accomplishments then pacers have 3 all starts in George, granger and west. Hibbert should also be the starting C this year. And if your only going off of last year wasn't rose scared to play because he didn't want to be the next Oden.

And the Bulls have 4 All-Stars. Maybe 5 if they sign Jamison. AWFUL logic.

Noah is better than Hibbert, Noah was arguably the best C in the league last year... Hibbert was a big disappointment until the Heat series.

archdevil84
08-04-2013, 06:21 AM
i think the pacers are better then bulls now but they wil probs get the 3th seed in the east. the nets however are very overrated in my opinion

east fb knicks
08-04-2013, 06:23 AM
And the Bulls have 4 All-Stars. Maybe 5 if they sign Jamison. AWFUL logic.

Noah is better than Hibbert, Noah was arguably the best C in the league last year... Hibbert was a big disappointment until the Heat series.

no :facepalm:

jp611
08-04-2013, 06:25 AM
no :facepalm:

Good rebuttal.

jp611
08-04-2013, 06:39 AM
Joakim Noah 2012-2013 season - TS% .534
WS - 7.3
WS/48 - .145
eFG% - .481
TRB% - 17.3
AST% - 17.6
STL% - 1.7
BLK% - 4.4
With a USG% of 17.2

Roy Hibbert 2012-2013 season - TS% - .489
WS - 6.1
WS/48 - .129
eFG% - .449
TRB% - 16.1
AST% - 8.9
STL% - 0.9
BLK% - 6.7
With a USG% of 22.5

So by the numbers it appears that Hibbert is only better at blocking and getting more of a usage percentage.

Noah is a more efficient scorer, better rebounder, much better passer, and he can run the court better than most C's in the league, in fact he brings the ball all the way up himself at times. Nice try though.

Noah>>>>Hibbert

gbrl
08-04-2013, 07:56 AM
Hibbert played ****** on offense most of the year which might have been due to a wrist injury

check out his playoff averages, hes been putting up similar numbers since the all star break

Rndy
08-04-2013, 08:14 AM
no :facepalm:

oh ok can't argue with that!

Rndy
08-04-2013, 08:15 AM
Hibbert vs Noah - hibbert better overall

West vs boozer - west better defender and rebounder and equal on offensive

Granger vs deng - equal deng upper hand on D and granger on Offense

George vs butler - George better scorer and defender

Hill vs rose - rose better on offense and hill better on D

Pacers better team by far


Hill better on defense wtf have you been watching when Rose was the best defensive PG 2 years in a row according to Synergy? I expect him to remain the best.

naps
08-04-2013, 08:26 AM
Bulls are a better regular season team. They won't be any lower than 3rd seed. Thibs goes all out for regular season. So I won't be surprised even if they get the top overall seed with a healthy Rose.

Purugskid
08-04-2013, 09:48 AM
Bulls are a better regular season team. They won't be any lower than 3rd seed. Thibs goes all out for regular season. So I won't be surprised even if they get the top overall seed with a healthy Rose.

This.

effen5
08-04-2013, 09:50 AM
Joakim Noah 2012-2013 season - TS% .534
WS - 7.3
WS/48 - .145
eFG% - .481
TRB% - 17.3
AST% - 17.6
STL% - 1.7
BLK% - 4.4
With a USG% of 17.2

Roy Hibbert 2012-2013 season - TS% - .489
WS - 6.1
WS/48 - .129
eFG% - .449
TRB% - 16.1
AST% - 8.9
STL% - 0.9
BLK% - 6.7
With a USG% of 22.5

So by the numbers it appears that Hibbert is only better at blocking and getting more of a usage percentage.

Noah is a more efficient scorer, better rebounder, much better passer, and he can run the court better than most C's in the league, in fact he brings the ball all the way up himself at times. Nice try though.

Noah>>>>Hibbert

Oh hey, facts, what's that?

envymamba24
08-04-2013, 10:07 AM
This convo making me realize how dangerous the East could potentially be. Makes the West look a little inferior this year

Goose17
08-04-2013, 10:52 AM
This convo making me realize how dangerous the East could potentially be. Makes the West look a little inferior this year

That's a joke right?

West is stacked, East is improved but still weak.

TheLegend
08-04-2013, 11:03 AM
weren't we the 2nd seed last year how do you guys deserve it more than us and I didn't say we got the 2nd seed I also said the pacers are good too so I see us as a top 3 with the bulls on the outside but who knows we haven't played one game yet im so excited for this year

Why do u Knicks fans think ur teams deserve something?

sportsfan222
08-04-2013, 11:21 AM
all u people who think the bulls are the 3rd or 4th best team in the east will be eating crow when the bulls finish with top record in nba.

to whomever thinks the knicks are better than the bulls, lol. same with the pacers, pacers may have lots of talent, but they still are not better than a healthy bulls team with rose.

bulls will win the central divison by a good 5 plus games.

TheLegend
08-04-2013, 11:22 AM
Why do u Knicks fans think ur teams deserve something?


Joakim Noah 2012-2013 season - TS% .534
WS - 7.3
WS/48 - .145
eFG% - .481
TRB% - 17.3
AST% - 17.6
STL% - 1.7
BLK% - 4.4
With a USG% of 17.2

Roy Hibbert 2012-2013 season - TS% - .489
WS - 6.1
WS/48 - .129
eFG% - .449
TRB% - 16.1
AST% - 8.9
STL% - 0.9
BLK% - 6.7
With a USG% of 22.5

So by the numbers it appears that Hibbert is only better at blocking and getting more of a usage percentage.

Noah is a more efficient scorer, better rebounder, much better passer, and he can run the court better than most C's in the league, in fact he brings the ball all the way up himself at times. Nice try though.

Noah>>>>Hibbert

I'm a bulls fan and I'm not even sure Noah is better than Hibbert. And I can't really say Hibbert is better than Noah either. However, there's a strong argument that against the Heat, Hibbert dominated Miami and looked like a star when Noah wasn't nowhere as effective against the Heat. Off the top of my head Hibbert smashed the heat and avg. something like 22ppg while Noah avg about 10 against the heat. And to me, those playoffs Numbers against the heat mean more to me than reg. season numbers. Reg. season numbers can be patted stats. Playoffs averages against a top team like the heat are not. Hibbert was a big reason why that series went 7games. I'm not saying either one is better though. But I do feel there is a argument on both sides to be fair.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 11:43 AM
Drose doesnt rely on any one thing to be as good as he is.

Have to disagree here. You take away the man's explosiveness and he is one of 20 average
pg in the NBA. Rose must be lightning quick to be the MVP player he was. (See Tracy mcGrady) Never the same player after injury.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 11:50 AM
I agree. My point was the East is weak, they have very little competition. For anyone to suggest they'll go lower than 4th is crazy. Without Rose they're potentially top 4-5. Never mind with him.

The east is not weak. This is where people are not allowing their mindset to change.
Miami is Miami. The Nets, Knicks, Pacers are all top of the conference contenders whether you like it or not. Chicago had boston and Miami to go through 2 and 3 years ago, now there are 4 really tough opponents. The fact of the matter is, one or 2 of these top 5 teams are going to be ousted in the first round next year.

Add to that Detroit, Cleveland are growing teams that will no longer be doormats. Who knows what Boston will even be. We will quickly find out. The eastern Conference is no weaker than the west. And will soon pass the west.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 11:52 AM
George Hill better than Rose on Defense

My ****ing sides hurt tonight. PSD is on a ****ing roll

:laugh2:

in all fairness we do have to see what rose has left before just assuming he is the same player.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 11:53 AM
And the Bulls have 4 All-Stars. Maybe 5 if they sign Jamison. AWFUL logic.

Noah is better than Hibbert, Noah was arguably the best C in the league last year... Hibbert was a big disappointment until the Heat series.

2 completely different style of Centers. Hibbert came into his own offensively, noah is the glue to the Bulls defense.

DoMeFavors
08-04-2013, 11:55 AM
That's a joke right?

West is stacked, East is improved but still weak.

not it isnt EAST have the legit title contenders, better chance a team out EAST will win the title rather than WEST

chitownbulls
08-04-2013, 12:11 PM
Hibbert vs Noah - hibbert better overall

West vs boozer - west better defender and rebounder and equal on offensive

Granger vs deng - equal deng upper hand on D and granger on Offense

George vs butler - George better scorer and defender

Hill vs rose - rose better on offense and hill better on D

Pacers better team by far

Hibbert vs Noah- Noah better defensive player, rebounder, ball handler, passer.

West vs Boozer- Boozer better rebounder, equal offensively

Granger vs Deng- Well put, Deng better on D, Granger better on O.

George vs Butler-Butler better defender, George better offensively.

Hill vs Rose- LOL


See what I did there? Now the Bulls team looks a lot better when I weighed out the comparison in a different way. Completely flawed logic. Also George is not a better defender than Butler.

Gators123
08-04-2013, 12:30 PM
Joakim Noah 2012-2013 season - TS% .534
WS - 7.3
WS/48 - .145
eFG% - .481
TRB% - 17.3
AST% - 17.6
STL% - 1.7
BLK% - 4.4
With a USG% of 17.2

Roy Hibbert 2012-2013 season - TS% - .489
WS - 6.1
WS/48 - .129
eFG% - .449
TRB% - 16.1
AST% - 8.9
STL% - 0.9
BLK% - 6.7
With a USG% of 22.5

So by the numbers it appears that Hibbert is only better at blocking and getting more of a usage percentage.

Noah is a more efficient scorer, better rebounder, much better passer, and he can run the court better than most C's in the league, in fact he brings the ball all the way up himself at times. Nice try though.

Noah>>>>Hibbert

They aren't too far apart except for Hibberts TS% (:puke:) but I'm guessing Hibbert was less efficient because of his much higher usage rate.

ManRam
08-04-2013, 01:08 PM
Plenty are overrating. Plenty are underrating. And plenty have it right.

That's pretty much how it goes for every "is such-and-such overrated" thread.

I'm not quite ready to view them as the team they were in 2011-2012, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they were. And if healthy, the still match up very well with the Heat IMO.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 01:58 PM
Have to disagree here. You take away the man's explosiveness and he is one of 20 average
pg in the NBA. Rose must be lightning quick to be the MVP player he was. (See Tracy mcGrady) Never the same player after injury.

No. Thats like saying one thing makes lebron the player he is. Yes injuries(plural) derailed tmacs career.

smood999
08-04-2013, 02:12 PM
Why do u Knicks fans think ur teams deserve something?

The lack of respect is ridiculous...but it's alright, don't need other fan bases approvals...and most of you said the same last yr too only to be proven wrong. There's not one team with the Knicks resume from last season that is getting downplayed as much. We are talking regular season standings here aren't we? The Knicks were 5 games better than Indiana last season. None of this matters come playoff time, if that's the point you want to make...but again, we are talking regular season standings.

KnickaBocka.44
08-04-2013, 02:12 PM
No. Thats like saying one thing makes lebron the player he is. Yes injuries(plural) derailed tmacs career.

It's true for Rose, it's not true for Lebron. Part of it has to do with the positions they play.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 02:21 PM
It's true for Rose, it's not true for Lebron. Part of it has to do with the positions they play.

Both are high usage player. Not sure why the double standard. For the position rose plays his size alone makes him a tough player. And he aint gonna lose that.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 02:32 PM
no imo they are better because they have hibbert plus they probably have the best depth in the league not to mention granger is coming back and this is coming from a knicks fan I hate the pacers but they will be a top 3 seed next year

yeah you guys did no excuses but the reg season and playoffs are two different things we played indy good in the reg season and lost to them in the playoffs

When trying to prognosticate SEEDs, the Knicks inability to beat the Bulls even without Rose is relevant.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 02:35 PM
No. Thats like saying one thing makes lebron the player he is. Yes injuries(plural) derailed tmacs career.

That one thing that makes LeBron the player he is is his Huge Athletic Body. You cant tell me if LeBron James was 6'2' 195 LBS he would be the player he is.

Rose has the same body as 100 different NBA players and a million non NBA players. What sets him aside is that he is the Road Runner and no one else is.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 02:37 PM
When trying to prognosticate SEEDs, the Knicks inability to beat the Bulls even without Rose is relevant.

So the Heats inability to beat the Knicks is the same right?

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 02:39 PM
So the Heats inability to beat the Knicks is the same right?

Sure doesnt hurt for seeding.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 02:39 PM
Regular season seedings are what the Bulls have been built on for the last 3 seasons. The Question is that now more teams are stacked than when the Bulls won the #1 before, are they being overrated this year with a Star player coming off a missed year for major surgery?

smood999
08-04-2013, 02:40 PM
coming from a knicks fan :laugh: your team is garbage


Nothing overrated about the Bulls they are legit contenders and can beat anyone in the league including the Heat. But please lets not talk about the Knicks they've fallin behind Detroit IMO and will be lucky to get a sixth seed in the east.


knicks lol

the bulls were the no.1 seed in the nba in 2011


Knicks deserve the 2 seed? How when they couldn't even beat the bulls without rosť. Then lost to the pacers with HCA. Knicks suck. And it's not deserved its EARNED!!! But that's the mentality of a typical Knicks fan.


No other 50 win team gets this type of disrespect...and you wonder why some Knick fans act the way they do.

They lost to the Pacers with HCA...I guess every team with HCA won in the playoffs...great argument. Knicks got swept by the Bulls in the regular season but ignore their record against better teams...another good argument.

Question...the Pacers, Nets and Bulls got better...the Knicks went a combined 4-8 against those 3 teams last season. Where are the Knicks extra losses coming from? Where is the direct impact on the Knicks during the regular season? I'm only using this argument cause the argument seems to be the Pacers, Bulls, Nets got better so they'll beat the Knicks more and the Knicks will be worse. Or the Knicks only won 54 games cause the Bulls were injured, when in fact none of their 54 wins came against the Bulls.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 02:42 PM
Sure doesnt hurt for seeding.

Seeding is what we are talking about. 27 something wins in a row sure doesnt hurt either.
So if Chicago beat the Knicks 4 times last year that makes them better right? regardless of overall records.
So if the Knicks beat Miami 3 times last year and embarrassed them in the process then with your thinking, The Knicks must be better than Miami right?

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 02:44 PM
Regular season seedings are what the Bulls have been built on for the last 3 seasons. The Question is that now more teams are stacked than when the Bulls won the #1 before, are they being overrated this year with a Star player coming off a missed year for major surgery?

The answer to this is no already. Whether they are as good as the year they went number 1 isnt as important as are they still really good right now. Which the answer seems to be yes.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 02:45 PM
No other 50 win team gets this type of disrespect...and you wonder why some Knick fans act the way they do.

They lost to the Pacers with HCA...I guess every team with HCA won in the playoffs...great argument. Knicks got swept by the Bulls in the regular season but ignore their record against better teams...another good argument.

Question...the Pacers, Nets and Bulls got better...the Knicks went a combined 4-8 against those 3 teams last season. Where are the Knicks extra losses coming from? Where is the direct impact on the Knicks during the regular season? I'm only using this argument cause the argument seems to be the Pacers, Bulls, Nets got better so they'll beat the Knicks more and the Knicks will be worse. Or the Knicks only won 54 games cause the Bulls were injured, when in fact none of their 54 wins came against the Bulls.

Saying they went 4-8 against these three teams is misleading.
they were o-4 against Chicago and 4-4 against BKN and INDY

That's like saying they went 3-5 against CHI and MIA when it was 0-4 and 3-1. Misleading

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 02:46 PM
Seeding is what we are talking about. 27 something wins in a row sure doesnt hurt either.
So if Chicago beat the Knicks 4 times last year that makes them better right? regardless of overall records.
So if the Knicks beat Miami 3 times last year and embarrassed them in the process then with your thinking, The Knicks must be better than Miami right?

Thats not what i said. Dont try to mish mosh that regular season wins are important to playoff seeding.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 02:47 PM
The answer to this is no already. Whether they are as good as the year they went number 1 isnt as important as are they still really good right now. Which the answer seems to be yes.

I believe this makes sense when you wrote it and when you read it. I got nothing out of this.

No one is saying they are not good. I think they are very good. But I also think BKN, NYK, MIA, and INDY are very good as well

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 02:48 PM
Thats not what i said. Dont try to mish mosh that regular season wins are important to playoff seeding.

Regular season wins ARE important to playoff seeding. What is your point.

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 02:53 PM
I believe this makes sense when you wrote it and when you read it. I got nothing out of this.

No one is saying they are not good. I think they are very good. But I also think BKN, NYK, MIA, and INDY are very good as well

So if u think they are very good, then why they all the uncertainty that they should be included in a convo for a top seed. There are a lot of teams in the mix for that. The Bulls also having the the number 1 seed two out of the last 3 years also plays a factor. as well as the Bulls last season only being games behind all the aforementioned teams with their best player not playing 1 minute for them.

smood999
08-04-2013, 02:53 PM
Saying they went 4-8 against these three teams is misleading.
they were o-4 against Chicago and 4-4 against BKN and INDY

That's like saying they went 3-5 against CHI and MIA when it was 0-4 and 3-1. Misleading

the point was aren't the Knicks good enough to get at least 4 total wins against those 3 teams and if so, where is the drop off as far as extra losses for the Knicks?

smood999
08-04-2013, 02:57 PM
I'm just looking for someone to present a legitimate case as to why the Knicks will be 5 plus games worse than last season...saying because the Pacers, Bulls and Nets got better implies that their extra losses will come from those teams

bearadonisdna
08-04-2013, 03:04 PM
I'm just looking for someone to present a legitimate case as to why the Knicks will be 5 plus games worse than last season...saying because the Pacers, Bulls and Nets got better implies that their extra losses will come from those teams

Im not sure where there was an implied drop off. A drop off can happen from anywhere tho. From against the top teams, to road losses, to maybe injuries. Like JR Smith needing surgery or something. But im not sure where the implied drop off was implied.

Goose17
08-04-2013, 03:27 PM
Where did the Knicks improve this season?

smood999
08-04-2013, 04:43 PM
Where did the Knicks improve this season?

where did they get worse? They've def improved unless you think Metta and Bargnani are subtraction by addition...but at worse you can say they just stayed the same. Kidd and Novak were the only rotation players they lost and Kidd was the only one that got consistent big minutes out of those two.

I agree that the Bulls and Nets have gotten even better. I don't believe the Pacers have done anything this offseason to upgrade and are counting on Hibbert to finally be consistent and Granger to come back as Granger. My opinion the Bulls and Nets have gotten alot better, while the Knicks and Pacers have gotten a little better but it has no direct effect on the teams until the playoffs.

east fb knicks
08-04-2013, 04:43 PM
Where did the Knicks improve this season?

mwp bargs shump playing a whole year amare coming back from injury and not mention the chemistry we are building retaining the same core but besides that I guess your right :facepalm:

Pacerlive
08-04-2013, 05:10 PM
Regular season wins ARE important to playoff seeding. What is your point.

Are the Knicks better than the Nets? I don't think they are so that puts them as a 4/5 th seed which means most likely they face some tough competition in the playoffs in the first playoff series. Record wise they won't be bad but they haven't proved to me that they can stay healthy for a playoff run.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 08:16 PM
Are the Knicks better than the Nets? I don't think they are so that puts them as a 4/5 th seed which means most likely they face some tough competition in the playoffs in the first playoff series. Record wise they won't be bad but they haven't proved to me that they can stay healthy for a playoff run.

What does any of this have to do with Knicks v. Nets?

Bostonjorge
08-04-2013, 08:28 PM
It's safe to say no one really believes the bulls or Knicks really have any chance to win the championship. They can both have good seasons but come playoff time they will both be eliminated early. It's a 3 way race to the finals out east between heat, nets and pacers.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-04-2013, 08:36 PM
2 seasons in a row with best record in the league, followed by a season obtaining the 5th seed + making it to the 2nd round without having by far its best player the entire season. Core is still intact. Same coach, same Top 5 defense.

I don't see why its so far fetched to think they'll again be a top 2-3 seed in their conference. I haven't seen any Bulls posters saying we are the favorites to win the title or even the conference, so I don't see who is over rating them. Unless of course this is a thread to just troll which is usually followed by a bunch of Knicks-Nets baiting.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 08:42 PM
almost every bulls fan has them as a 1 or 2 seed.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-04-2013, 08:52 PM
almost every bulls fan has them as a 1 or 2 seed.

And that's a problem with you? Does it just ruin your day for you? Is it that crazy for us to believe? 2 of the last 3 years they were the #1 seed. Should Bulls fans start a thread because they dislike how Knick fans assume they will be a top 4-5 seed?

effen5
08-04-2013, 10:11 PM
almost every bulls fan has them as a 1 or 2 seed.

and is this not believable? Especially with Rose coming back?

jp611
08-04-2013, 10:20 PM
I'm a bulls fan and I'm not even sure Noah is better than Hibbert. And I can't really say Hibbert is better than Noah either. However, there's a strong argument that against the Heat, Hibbert dominated Miami and looked like a star when Noah wasn't nowhere as effective against the Heat. Off the top of my head Hibbert smashed the heat and avg. something like 22ppg while Noah avg about 10 against the heat. And to me, those playoffs Numbers against the heat mean more to me than reg. season numbers. Reg. season numbers can be patted stats. Playoffs averages against a top team like the heat are not. Hibbert was a big reason why that series went 7games. I'm not saying either one is better though. But I do feel there is a argument on both sides to be fair.

So we just ignore the reality? 6 game sample sizes over an entire season of work.

Great way to judge players.

sportsfan222
08-04-2013, 10:54 PM
It's safe to say no one really believes the bulls or Knicks really have any chance to win the championship. They can both have good seasons but come playoff time they will both be eliminated early. It's a 3 way race to the finals out east between heat, nets and pacers.
the bulls are better than both the pacers and nets, so i would have to disagree with you that its a 3 way race to the finals out east with those teams.

1 year without derrick rose and some people just forget how good the bulls really are. its amazing.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 11:01 PM
And that's a problem with you? Does it just ruin your day for you? Is it that crazy for us to believe? 2 of the last 3 years they were the #1 seed.

doesnt affect me either way, you just posted earlier that you havent seen any bulls fans thinking the bulls would win a title or the conference. Which one is it?

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 11:03 PM
and is this not believable? Especially with Rose coming back?

anyone of 4 teams are capable of finishing 1-2 with miami.

Captain Moroni
08-04-2013, 11:04 PM
So we just ignore the reality? 6 game sample sizes over an entire season of work.

Great way to judge players.

thats how jerome jordan got a fat deal

gbrl
08-04-2013, 11:05 PM
So we just ignore the reality? 6 game sample sizes over an entire season of work.

Great way to judge players.

he put up averages of 16 and 9 on 50% shooting since the all star break including playoffs which is a 45 game stretch

cant go wrong with either, though noahs more consistent

effen5
08-04-2013, 11:14 PM
anyone of 4 teams are capable of finishing 1-2 with miami.

Then what the hell is the point of this thread? If YOU say any of the 4 teams are capable of finishing 1-2 (IMO is only 3 with Bulls Heat and Indy) then they are rated right where they should be right?

gbrl
08-04-2013, 11:16 PM
the bulls are better than both the pacers and nets, so i would have to disagree with you that its a 3 way race to the finals out east with those teams.

1 year without derrick rose and some people just forget how good the bulls really are. its amazing.

nearly everyone has the bulls as one of the best teams, are we supposed to crown them because rose is coming back. all the other contenders have gotten better as well including miami (who already got through a healthy rose) since rose went down

Pierzynski4Prez
08-04-2013, 11:18 PM
doesnt affect me either way, you just posted earlier that you havent seen any bulls fans thinking the bulls would win a title or the conference. Which one is it?

You completely misconstruing 2 different statements, probably just to keep trolling. Obtaining the #1 or #2 seed does not equal winning a title (we of all people know this). Don't resort to putting words in my mouth please.

I, like probably most of the Bulls posters here, certainly think we can challenge the Heat IF we are fully healthy, but I don't see any of us proclaiming us to be favorites or anything of that nature.

effen5
08-04-2013, 11:18 PM
nearly everyone has the bulls as one of the best teams, are we supposed to crown them because rose is coming back. all the other contenders have gotten better as well including miami (who already got through a healthy rose) since rose went down

We're talking seeds. Did Miami have the best record with Rose playing? If anything we're overrating the Nets and Knicks big time. I see Indy a step below the Bulls.

smood999
08-04-2013, 11:20 PM
nearly everyone has the bulls as one of the best teams, are we supposed to crown them because rose is coming back. all the other contenders have gotten better as well including miami (who already got through a healthy rose) since rose went down

I do think the Bulls are one of the top teams in the East, but this is absolutely true...when the Bulls last had Rose the only other teams that could compete with them were Miami and maybe Boston. Boston is probably not even in the playoff conversation, meanwhile Miami is better, Indiana has emerged along with Brooklyn and New York.

smood999
08-04-2013, 11:22 PM
I'm a bulls fan and I'm not even sure Noah is better than Hibbert. And I can't really say Hibbert is better than Noah either. However, there's a strong argument that against the Heat, Hibbert dominated Miami and looked like a star when Noah wasn't nowhere as effective against the Heat. Off the top of my head Hibbert smashed the heat and avg. something like 22ppg while Noah avg about 10 against the heat. And to me, those playoffs Numbers against the heat mean more to me than reg. season numbers. Reg. season numbers can be patted stats. Playoffs averages against a top team like the heat are not. Hibbert was a big reason why that series went 7games. I'm not saying either one is better though. But I do feel there is a argument on both sides to be fair.

Hibbert had a great playoff run this past season, but he has never done that throughout the course of a regular season.

gbrl
08-04-2013, 11:23 PM
We're talking seeds. Did Miami have the best record with Rose playing? If anything we're overrating the Nets and Knicks big time. I see Indy a step below the Bulls.

bulls can definitely get the first seed imo pacers can as well not as likely as bulls and mainly hinges on granger being done or not

effen5
08-04-2013, 11:25 PM
I do think the Bulls are one of the top teams in the East, but this is absolutely true...when the Bulls last had Rose the only other teams that could compete with them were Miami and maybe Boston. Boston is probably not even in the playoff conversation, meanwhile Miami is better, Indiana has emerged along with Brooklyn and New York.

What exactly has the Nets done? They hired a rookie coach with some aging players that came from a team that won one game over 500. Lets seriously stop overrating the Nets here.

Pacerlive
08-04-2013, 11:41 PM
What does any of this have to do with Knicks v. Nets?

I thought your claim is that the rest of the field caught up with the Biulls. Well to me the gap between the Pacers and the Bulls is smaller but the gap between the Knicks and the Nets is wider now. Really the Bulls fans have a lot to be a optimistic about and as a Pacer fan they have shown to be a thorn in the side of the top teams in the East.

Why can't they get the top seed. Poor defense? Poor offense? If Rosť is healthy the offense that has been lacking will be fixed.

effen5
08-04-2013, 11:43 PM
I thought your claim is that the rest of the field caught up with the Biulls. Well to me the gap between the Pacers and the Bulls is smaller but the gap between the Knicks and the Nets is wider now. Really the Bulls fans have a lot to be a optimistic about and as a Pacer fan they have shown to be a thorn in the side of the top teams in the East.

The gap between the Bulls and Pacers is smaller, completely agree, but the gap from Pacers to the next team is much larger.

east fb knicks
08-04-2013, 11:49 PM
I love how this turned into a knicks bashing thread lmao I can't wait for the season to start my knicks are a top 3 seed imo and capable of knocking out the bulls nets and pacers also we won the regular season series with the heat

Pacerlive
08-04-2013, 11:55 PM
The gap between the Bulls and Pacers is smaller, completely agree, but the gap from Pacers to the next team is much larger.

To me it all depends on health. The top teams all have health concerns so I imagine that is the reason a gap will exist between any of the top 4 or 5 teams.

jp611
08-04-2013, 11:59 PM
I love how this turned into a knicks bashing thread lmao I can't wait for the season to start my knicks are a top 3 seed imo and capable of knocking out the bulls nets and pacers also we won the regular season series with the heat

Remember when we were talking about the Bulls and you changed the topic?

Do you remember when you facepalmed me for saying Noah is better than Hibbert? And then I brought out statistics that showed you and you ignored it?

gbrl
08-05-2013, 12:01 AM
I love how this turned into a knicks bashing thread lmao I can't wait for the season to start my knicks are a top 3 seed imo and capable of knocking out the bulls nets and pacers also we won the regular season series with the heat

we won the regular season series with the heat as well doesnt mean much in the playoffs though

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 12:02 AM
I love how this turned into a knicks bashing thread lmao I can't wait for the season to start my knicks are a top 3 seed imo and capable of knocking out the bulls nets and pacers also we won the regular season series with the heat
If your second best offensive weapon wasn't terrible in the playoffs then I would give a lot more credit to Knicks but you can't expect people to respect the Knicks in this conversation when JR has shot well below 40 percent in his career in the playoffs. If it was just last year I would give him a pass but he has been bad for four years now.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 12:03 AM
You completely misconstruing 2 different statements, probably just to keep trolling. Obtaining the #1 or #2 seed does not equal winning a title (we of all people know this). Don't resort to putting words in my mouth please.

I, like probably most of the Bulls posters here, certainly think we can challenge the Heat IF we are fully healthy, but I don't see any of us proclaiming us to be favorites or anything of that nature.

I certainly dont have to put words in your mouth. YOU just did AGAIN.
I can't make this stuff up.
I don't even know what trolling is.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 12:11 AM
What exactly has the Nets done? They hired a rookie coach with some aging players that came from a team that won one game over 500. Lets seriously stop overrating the Nets here.

you seem to have an issue with every team not named the Bulls. Why insult the Nets? Why insult the Knicks?
Personally I have never insulted the Bulls once. I just feel that they are getting over rated a bit. Why does that bother you? I can easily be proven wrong once the season starts.

BTW where did you rank the Knicks last year?
Were you wrong?

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 12:18 AM
we won the regular season series with the heat as well doesnt mean much in the playoffs though

but sweeping the knicks means everything?

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 12:26 AM
you seem to have an issue with every team not named the Bulls. Why insult the Nets? Why insult the Knicks?
Personally I have never insulted the Bulls once. I just feel that they are getting over rated a bit. Why does that bother you? I can easily be proven wrong once the season starts.

BTW where did you rank the Knicks last year?
Were you wrong?

This is from the OP:
'Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously?'

Thats pretty insulting.

effen5
08-05-2013, 12:27 AM
you seem to have an issue with every team not named the Bulls. Why insult the Nets? Why insult the Knicks?
Personally I have never insulted the Bulls once. I just feel that they are getting over rated a bit. Why does that bother you? I can easily be proven wrong once the season starts.

BTW where did you rank the Knicks last year?
Were you wrong?

I ranked the Knicks 3rd behind the Heat and Pacers.

jp611
08-05-2013, 12:35 AM
This is from the OP:
'Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously?'

Thats pretty insulting.

And untrue.

I mean, it could be much worse... I mean look at Amare Stoudemire.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 12:43 AM
And untrue.

I mean, it could be much worse... I mean look at Amare Stoudemire.

Most of the Bulls fans here have been fair and stayed away from the potshots. I ll say the same for the knicks fan besides a few bad apples.