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Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 01:12 PM
The Knicks don't depend on Shump the way the Bulls depend on Rose, huge difference.

why? because rose is better than shumpert? that makes the risk of re-injury greater? i'm trying to understand the level of praying one should perform for any given player. is it by ppg? salary? win shares?

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 01:42 PM
I'll admit, i didn't know those numbers, so i was wrong in my statement..

but it does raise more questions for me.

do you know what his injury was? every other category, minus shooting, is nearly identical pre and post all star..

It was his right wrist and the injury went back to the Miami series in 2011/12.


“I haven’t had any power in my right wrist,” Hibbert said. “So my hand has been basically a stub.”

The injury traces back to last May’s playoff series vs. the Heat, but the severity of the issue was only determined recently.

The team’s medical staff determined Dec. 14 that there was a significant problem with his wrist.

“It doesn’t hurt. It just has weakness,” Hibbert said. “Things were just out of whack. I was getting the shots I wanted with my right hand, but a few would go completely off track. So my touch was basically gone. That’s why I was shooting more shots with my left hand in the post.”

Hibbert has been getting treatment on his wrist on a regular basis since the injury was revealed.

After spending most of the season shooting below 40 percent from the field, Hibbert went into Saturday having shot at least 50 percent from the field in four of the past five games.
http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2012/12/crooked-hook-roy-hibberts-wrist-and-his-errant-shot/

bearadonisdna
08-06-2013, 02:00 PM
Did you have Indy ranked high last year?
Did You have NYK ranked high last year?
Did you have BKN ranked high last year?

This is not 2010, 2011, or 2012 anymore. Those three teams sucked back then. They dont suck anymore. As a matter of fact all three are pretty dang solid.

Where is the accounting for this difference.

Stop thinking its 2011 and Drose is the consensus pick for MVP.

Right now pray the guy makes it through Thanksgiving on a surgically repaired knee.

Drose himself said he feels he is the best player in the game. So its not what u tihink that fans are 'overrating' them. He says he is ready so his fans will believe he is ready. Ur an opposing fan. You dont have to feel he is ready. You said the Bulls have no talent at backup pointguard depth but that same depth made sure da bulls didnt lose once to the second seed last year. So not sure where u getting off saying that.

bearadonisdna
08-06-2013, 02:15 PM
you're correct in one aspect. a lot is riding on him coming back the same player he was before the injury. however, where we dissent is when we talk about him not being said player. i believe he didn't feel his knee was ready to go back onto the court last year. i understand the doctors cleared him to play, and believe me, i wanted him to play, but if he felt it was too soon (which leads to hesitant/cautious play, increasing the risk of re-injury) then he shouldn't have played. giving another full off season, and the longest ACL recovery on record for a professional athlete, i don't think he can realistically ever think it's too soon, or he isn't completely healed. I believe he'll come back with his aggression, and will have little to no hesitation regarding his knee.

and you never know, if rose comes back looking like his old self, he may have set a new recipe for knee ligament recovery. you could see more people taking a full year off going forward. who knows.

What started as a troll thread is finishing as a troll thread as now the OP is nitpicking a injury that is healed.

kozelkid
08-06-2013, 02:21 PM
And before that, Orlando and Boston were just as good as the teams you just listened if not better so your point is rather moot.

Boston yes, Orlando not so much

Orlando was easily better than the current Knicks. Not even debatable. With the Nets, no one knows.

TheLegend
08-06-2013, 02:21 PM
Sure Lopez for Noah and Rose that is the only way I do that trade

U must be smoking. I wouldn't trade Rose for Lopez and Dwill.

KnickaBocka.44
08-06-2013, 02:25 PM
why? because rose is better than shumpert? that makes the risk of re-injury greater? i'm trying to understand the level of praying one should perform for any given player. is it by ppg? salary? win shares?

Pretty much. If Shumpert goes down, the Knicks perimeter D takes a big hit. If Rose ges down, the Bulls can forget about anything past the 2nd round.

It doesn't make the risk of re-injury greater, but it makes the loss bigger. If you can't understand that, then I'm sorry.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 03:21 PM
Pretty much. If Shumpert goes down, the Knicks perimeter D takes a big hit. If Rose ges down, the Bulls can forget about anything past the 2nd round.

It doesn't make the risk of re-injury greater, but it makes the loss bigger. If you can't understand that, then I'm sorry.

okay... i guess i don't understand then, no need to apologize.. wouldn't be the first time i don't understand a poster on PSD, won't be the last..

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 04:18 PM
Drose himself said he feels he is the best player in the game. So its not what u tihink that fans are 'overrating' them. He says he is ready so his fans will believe he is ready. Ur an opposing fan. You dont have to feel he is ready. You said the Bulls have no talent at backup pointguard depth but that same depth made sure da bulls didnt lose once to the second seed last year. So not sure where u getting off saying that.

Hate to tell you but the pg depth that beat the second seed four times last year left town.

east fb knicks
08-06-2013, 04:20 PM
to me what separates the knicks and pacers from the bulls is their bench the bulls have nobody besides rose who can match jr smiths explosiveness and he's our sixth man the pacers also have Watson Copeland and scola coming off their bench yes the bulls starting 5 looks very impressive but after that their bench is a joke

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 04:27 PM
Orlando was easily better than the current Knicks. Not even debatable. With the Nets, no one knows.

Really? the 52-39 2010/11 Magic? or the 37-29 lockout team? explain how they were not just better, but Easily better than the current Knicks team?
It's not even Debateable? lets try and debate it.......

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 04:30 PM
Hate to tell you but the pg depth that beat the second seed four times last year left town.

and this year there will be more bench players that step up... it's the same story with the bulls every year (2 out of the last 3 anyway). their bench players perform well, move on. new players come in, perform well, move on. there will be over-performing players this year off the bulls bench.


to me what separates the knicks and pacers from the bulls is their bench the bulls have nobody besides rose who can match jr smiths explosiveness and he's our sixth man the pacers also have Watson Copeland and scola coming off their bench yes the bulls starting 5 looks very impressive but after that their bench is a joke

the bench has Kirk, MDJ, and Taj as their core. they will stand up to most any other team's bench just fine.

bearadonisdna
08-06-2013, 04:39 PM
to me what separates the knicks and pacers from the bulls is their bench the bulls have nobody besides rose who can match jr smiths explosiveness and he's our sixth man the pacers also have Watson Copeland and scola coming off their bench yes the bulls starting 5 looks very impressive but after that their bench is a joke

Thats where u are wrong. There isnt anything seperating the pacers and knicks from the Bulls. In this thread alone u have non bulls fans admitting if healthy the bulls can compete for not only the second seed, but the top seed. Havent heard that about knicks and pacers yet. Why because while good, not many believe they are capable of being the first seed even in their most positive scenario. Sorry to break it to you.

effen5
08-06-2013, 04:41 PM
to me what separates the knicks and pacers from the bulls is their bench the bulls have nobody besides rose who can match jr smiths explosiveness and he's our sixth man the pacers also have Watson Copeland and scola coming off their bench yes the bulls starting 5 looks very impressive but after that their bench is a joke

Is this the same bench that got their ***** kicked from the Bulls third stringers last year?

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 04:45 PM
NBA is a step by step process. Except it's not a perfect process.

Example: People just assume that Chicago is a top seed because they have been a top seed.

People assume that Chicago will choke in the ECF against Miami because they have choked before.

People assume the Knicks will get Knocked out in the first round because they did 2 years in a row.

Now people assume the Knicks can't get past the second round because they took that next step.

People assume indy is awesome because they went to the ECF last year.

People assume Indy will repeat that. But Indy, Miami, and the bulls cannot ALL make the ECF. So one of those teams will get knocked in the second round or earlier next year.

People assume the Knicks play ZERO defense, but actually they are really not that bad since Dantoni left.
Knicks add Healthy Shumpert, Artest, Kmart, to a squad that already has DPOY (11-12) Chandler and Prigioni a steals machine. Yet people just assume they STILL (Cirqa 2009 - 11 ) don't play defense.

Thibs is a great coach. So is Mike Woodson his record in NY speaks for itself.

Yet people make statements like "orlando 2-3 years ago was superior to these Knicks" without even looking up anything.

Bulls have so far gotten a free pass this offseason. They have more to prove than INDY, MIA, or NYK.
BKN needs to prove it on the court. On paper they are solid.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 04:47 PM
and this year there will be more bench players that step up... it's the same story with the bulls every year (2 out of the last 3 anyway). their bench players perform well, move on. new players come in, perform well, move on. there will be over-performing players this year off the bulls bench.



the bench has Kirk, MDJ, and Taj as their core. they will stand up to most any other team's bench just fine.

I was reffering to what was posted not what hypothetically might occur.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 04:51 PM
Is this the same bench that got their ***** kicked from the Bulls third stringers last year?

Actually it is not the same bench.
Copeland, Novak, Kidd, Thomas, white, and Wallace are all gone.

Artest, Smith, Amare, Prigioni, Kmart, and Hardaway are pretty solid.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 04:51 PM
The Pacers could get the number one seed but we don't have the fans to argue 33 pages for it. I personally don't care but I think the top 4 teams all have a legit shot and injuries probably will determine who gets it.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 04:56 PM
NBA is a step by step process. Except it's not a perfect process.

Example: People just assume that Chicago is a top seed because they have been a top seed.

People assume that Chicago will choke in the ECF against Miami because they have choked before.

People assume the Knicks will get Knocked out in the first round because they did 2 years in a row.

Now people assume the Knicks can't get past the second round because they took that next step.

People assume indy is awesome because they went to the ECF last year.

People assume Indy will repeat that. But Indy, Miami, and the bulls cannot ALL make the ECF. So one of those teams will get knocked in the second round or earlier next year.

People assume the Knicks play ZERO defense, but actually they are really not that bad since Dantoni left.
Knicks add Healthy Shumpert, Artest, Kmart, to a squad that already has DPOY (11-12) Chandler and Prigioni a steals machine. Yet people just assume they STILL (Cirqa 2009 - 11 ) don't play defense.

Thibs is a great coach. So is Mike Woodson his record in NY speaks for itself.

Yet people make statements like "orlando 2-3 years ago was superior to these Knicks" without even looking up anything.

Bulls have so far gotten a free pass this offseason. They have more to prove than INDY, MIA, or NYK.
BKN needs to prove it on the court. On paper they are solid.

you're not doing yourself any favors, with post like these.

newsflash!! every team has to 'prove' their worth. why do you think there's a season? i just don't know why you care so damn much about what other people feel? who the hell cares, really?

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 05:00 PM
I was reffering to what was posted not what hypothetically might occur.

i'm basing my expectations on previous results. were the bulls teams the last 3 years perfect? by all means, no. but they prove that they will go out and fight every night, they have unexpected players step up and rise to adversity time and time again, and they aren't afraid and won't back down from any team.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 05:03 PM
The Pacers could get the number one seed but we don't have the fans to argue 33 pages for it. I personally don't care but I think the top 4 teams all have a legit shot and injuries probably will determine who gets it.

we all know the pacers have absolutely no shot at the top seed, which is precisely why your fan base is so meager.

bearadonisdna
08-06-2013, 05:17 PM
NBA is a step by step process. Except it's not a perfect process.

Example: People just assume that Chicago is a top seed because they have been a top seed.

People assume that Chicago will choke in the ECF against Miami because they have choked before.

People assume the Knicks will get Knocked out in the first round because they did 2 years in a row.

Now people assume the Knicks can't get past the second round because they took that next step.

People assume indy is awesome because they went to the ECF last year.

People assume Indy will repeat that. But Indy, Miami, and the bulls cannot ALL make the ECF. So one of those teams will get knocked in the second round or earlier next year.

People assume the Knicks play ZERO defense, but actually they are really not that bad since Dantoni left.
Knicks add Healthy Shumpert, Artest, Kmart, to a squad that already has DPOY (11-12) Chandler and Prigioni a steals machine. Yet people just assume they STILL (Cirqa 2009 - 11 ) don't play defense.

Thibs is a great coach. So is Mike Woodson his record in NY speaks for itself.

Yet people make statements like "orlando 2-3 years ago was superior to these Knicks" without even looking up anything.

Bulls have so far gotten a free pass this offseason. They have more to prove than INDY, MIA, or NYK.
BKN needs to prove it on the court. On paper they are solid.

Actually all those teams have to prove they can replicate wat they did going against a bulls team finally with their best player. They have as much to prove as anybody. U wanna give the bulls free pass to everyone else. lol.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-06-2013, 05:19 PM
you're not doing yourself any favors, with post like these.

newsflash!! every team has to 'prove' their worth. why do you think there's a season? i just don't know why you care so damn much about what other people feel? who the hell cares, really?

He's just jealous of a team being praised more than his own on an internet forum when he doesn't agree with it. Sad really that he spends this much time trying to change people's opinions, especially when the majority don't agree with his.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 05:36 PM
we all know the pacers have absolutely no shot at the top seed, which is precisely why your fan base is so meager.

Now why do you say this? based on what? ECF futility? Why do the Bulls continue to get a free pass? Bulls havent won the East since jordan , the pacers were 1 game away. Why can't the Pacers take the number one seed?

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 05:55 PM
Actually all those teams have to prove they can replicate wat they did going against a bulls team finally with their best player. They have as much to prove as anybody. U wanna give the bulls free pass to everyone else. lol.

Actually, No one gets a free pass.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 05:57 PM
Opinions are awesome. Everyone should have one.

TheLegend
08-06-2013, 06:18 PM
to me what separates the knicks and pacers from the bulls is their bench the bulls have nobody besides rose who can match jr smiths explosiveness and he's our sixth man the pacers also have Watson Copeland and scola coming off their bench yes the bulls starting 5 looks very impressive but after that their bench is a joke

Wasn't JR Smith a joke last ur in the playoffs ?

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 06:29 PM
Wasn't JR Smith a joke last ur in the playoffs ?

Actually he was injured.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 06:40 PM
See this is where it pays to know some history of JR Smith. He has been terrible the last three years in the playoffs so I chalk it up to him being a choker.

gbrl
08-06-2013, 06:41 PM
we all know the pacers have absolutely no shot at the top seed, which is precisely why your fan base is so meager.

based on this logic the raptors must have a shot at the top seed

east fb knicks
08-06-2013, 06:42 PM
we all know the pacers have absolutely no shot at the top seed, which is precisely why your fan base is so meager.

I disagree the pacers have the best shot at the number one seed besides miami

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 06:46 PM
we all know the pacers have absolutely no shot at the top seed, which is precisely why your fan base is so meager. Actually I chalk it up to intelligence but hey what do I know. The Pacers have been more of a stumbling block to the champs than the Bulls ever have.

east fb knicks
08-06-2013, 06:47 PM
See this is where it pays to know some history of JR Smith. He has been terrible the last three years in the playoffs so I chalk it up to him being a choker.

lmao well lets use some logic behind your post jr was hurt this year he just had knee surgery so it was pretty dam serious the year before everybody got hurt leaving jr to be our 2nd option and as much as I love jr he is no 2nd option so he was forced to play out of his role causing him to play bad not to mention we played the heat what did you expect him to do and the year before that idk because I'm not a big nuggets fan

BcEuAbRsS
08-06-2013, 06:58 PM
So it's assumed that the Knicks or the Pacers will be the #2 seed, but Chicago is getting a free pass? Over the past three season, one of them without Rose, the Bulls have been the 2nd best team in the East behind Miami. Are the Knicks, Pacers, and Nets good teams? Sure, but it's pretty undeniable which are the top two teams in the East.

KNAN
08-06-2013, 07:11 PM
I will take this year's bench over the the last 3 seasons. Our bench is going to be better this year and I can't wait until all the haters are proven wrong. More 3 point shooters on this team then there were the last 3 seasons. Please continue to discredit and give as much hate, we love it! Gooo Bulls!

TheLegend
08-06-2013, 07:51 PM
Actually he was injured.

How? If he was injured why play? And then, why keep jacking up shots? Looked like a choke to me dude.

TheLegend
08-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Actually I chalk it up to intelligence but hey what do I know. The Pacers have been more of a stumbling block to the champs than the Bulls ever have.

I'm a bulls fan and I have to agree with this. The Bulls never really challenged Miami like the Pacers have last year. Some bulls fans here seem to thinking being in "close games" mean something. SMH

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 08:08 PM
lmao well lets use some logic behind your post jr was hurt this year he just had knee surgery so it was pretty dam serious the year before everybody got hurt leaving jr to be our 2nd option and as much as I love jr he is no 2nd option so he was forced to play out of his role causing him to play bad not to mention we played the heat what did you expect him to do and the year before that idk because I'm not a big nuggets fanHis career playoff numbers suck so he is what he is. He doesn't have good shot selection and he is at best a streaky shooter. If he played defense I could overlook his bad numbers but he doesn't so I don't think he adds a lot to the Knicks. Shumpert to me is a bigger impact player than JR so having him back for a full season makes them better than JR chucking as a 6th man.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 08:15 PM
How? If he was injured why play? And then, why keep jacking up shots? Looked like a choke to me dude.JR described the injury as feeling like a pebble in his shoe so he was hurt but not injuried by any means. Copeland had a similar injury that required surgery but nobody is making excuses for his playoff performances because he actually played well. What I find funny is that the Bulls had way more injuries than the Knicks and everyone for the most part played well but I guess that's what happens when you play both sides of the court.

NJrockPD
08-06-2013, 08:20 PM
Why do people assume the Heat will be a top team in the East? Why do they get a pass? Oh yeah because they have proved over the past few years that they are a top team in the east. Just as the Bulls have.

Will D. Wade digress even more than he did last year in the post season?

Will Bosh trade rumors throw him off his game?

Will Lebrons roided out body explode in the first game of the season?

NO ONE KNOWS!!!!

That's why we watch.

Rndy
08-06-2013, 08:40 PM
Why do people assume the Heat will be a top team in the East? Why do they get a pass? Oh yeah because they have proved over the past few years that they are a top team in the east. Just as the Bulls have.

Will D. Wade digress even more than he did last year in the post season?

Will Bosh trade rumors throw him off his game?

Will Lebrons roided out body explode in the first game of the season?

NO ONE KNOWS!!!!

That's why we watch.

I hope the Bucks kick everyones *** so all these annoying people go away.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 08:46 PM
Actually I chalk it up to intelligence but hey what do I know. The Pacers have been more of a stumbling block to the champs than the Bulls ever have.

i was just messin with you.... apparently no one got the sarcasm... i apologize..

and to be fair, the bulls really only got one shot at the heat, and that was 3 playoffs ago. should the same happen again this year, then i will have to concede your point.

this year is pretty big for the bulls IMO. if they can't get it done, i would expect to see some major changes next year...

east fb knicks
08-06-2013, 10:08 PM
His career playoff numbers suck so he is what he is. He doesn't have good shot selection and he is at best a streaky shooter. If he played defense I could overlook his bad numbers but he doesn't so I don't think he adds a lot to the Knicks. Shumpert to me is a bigger impact player than JR so having him back for a full season makes them better than JR chucking as a 6th man.

lmao you know jr is only 27 right and he made great strides to improve his game this year up until the suspension in the Celtics series he was our 2nd best player all year you know on a 54 win team reigning 6th man of the year

bearadonisdna
08-07-2013, 01:57 AM
lmao you know jr is only 27 right and he made great strides to improve his game this year up until the suspension in the Celtics series he was our 2nd best player all year you know on a 54 win team reigning 6th man of the year

Now that i think of it. Youve been saying the Bulls dont have a second option therefore not on the same level as the knicks and pacers. But where is the Knicks second option. JR Smith who just had SURGERY is not a 'second option' as he is not even a top 5 option to be in the starting lineup. Stop joking around.

BoomDizzle33
08-07-2013, 02:08 AM
Irrelevant. But...Kobe n Deng vs. Bron n Leonard? No bias. Just wondering the odds.

east fb knicks
08-07-2013, 05:05 AM
Now that i think of it. Youve been saying the Bulls dont have a second option therefore not on the same level as the knicks and pacers. But where is the Knicks second option. JR Smith who just had SURGERY is not a 'second option' as he is not even a top 5 option to be in the starting lineup. Stop joking around.

we have a lot more firepower now than last year first off we traded for bargs who could be our 2nd option shump showed signs in the playoffs also amare can't play no defense but he can score we drafted hardaway jr who I think will be a steal and ofcourse jr I have no doubt our offense is better then yours but the bulls defense is always great under thibs

smiddy012
08-07-2013, 06:24 AM
we have a lot more firepower now than last year first off we traded for bargs who could be our 2nd option shump showed signs in the playoffs also amare can't play no defense but he can score we drafted hardaway jr who I think will be a steal and ofcourse jr I have no doubt our offense is better then yours but the bulls defense is always great under thibs

Your 2nd option is your sixth fricken man.... Not even a starter :facepalm:

ChitownbullsBG7
08-07-2013, 07:48 AM
Your 2nd option is your sixth fricken man.... Not even a starter :facepalm:

Terry was a sixth man when Dallas won the championship. He was their second best player. Nyk definitely has the better offense. Not even close TBH. But at the same time that 3 pt shooting will be their downfall again. Also the fact that their D will still be suspect at times.

Rndy
08-07-2013, 09:33 AM
Terry was a sixth man when Dallas won the championship. He was their second best player. Nyk definitely has the better offense. Not even close TBH. But at the same time that 3 pt shooting will be their downfall again. Also the fact that their D will still be suspect at times.

defense and rebounding will continue to kill them they don't need scoring they need defense and they keep ****ing it up. Chandler can't do everything.

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 09:46 AM
i was just messin with you.... apparently no one got the sarcasm... i apologize..

and to be fair, the bulls really only got one shot at the heat, and that was 3 playoffs ago. should the same happen again this year, then i will have to concede your point.

this year is pretty big for the bulls IMO. if they can't get it done, i would expect to see some major changes next year...

You have to understand from a Pacers perspective no one gave us a shot against the Knicks and the Heat so we do have a chip on our shoulder. The other thing to is that our arena gets filled with dregs of Chicago who can't afford to watch their own team in their own state. It would similar as Indiana sending all the trailor park trash to your arena. It doesn't represent Bulls fans as a whole but we still have to deal with a level idiocy that is unmatched by any other sports fans that visit our town.

Rndy
08-07-2013, 09:52 AM
You have to understand from a Pacers perspective no one gave us a shot against the Knicks and the Heat so we do have a chip on our shoulder. The other thing to is that our arena gets filled with dregs of Chicago who can't afford to watch their own team in their own state. It would similar as Indiana sending all the trailor park trash to your arena. It doesn't represent Bulls fans as a whole but we still have to deal with a level idiocy that is unmatched by any other sports fans that visit our town.

I thought the Pacers were going to beat both. I always say I think the Pacers are better against the heat and the Bulls are better against the Pacers. Pacers have the offensive Front court to make Miami pay and Chicago has the defense and rebounding to kind of take Pacers out of their game.

Not to say Chicago can't beat Miami or that Indy can't beat Chicago I just think they do match up very well in those situations due to their players.

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 10:02 AM
I thought the Pacers were going to beat both. I always say I think the Pacers are better against the heat and the Bulls are better against the Pacers. Pacers have the offensive Front court to make Miami pay and Chicago has the defense and rebounding to kind of take Pacers out of their game.

Not to say Chicago can't beat Miami or that Indy can't beat Chicago I just think they do match up very well in those situations due to their players.

If we are talking about seeding then I think the Bulls have a strong shot at taking back the division back. If we are talking about a playoff run then I will take my Pacers but in any case the teams won't meet until the second round so it's anyone's guess. A lot of things have changed and if Granger comes back strong and Lance is a solid sixth man I think the Bulls will be overwhelmed with overall talent from the Pacers. So basically I think your one wing defender short to handle PG, Granger and Lance.

GiantsSwaGG
08-07-2013, 10:05 AM
Your 2nd option is your sixth fricken man.... Not even a starter :facepalm:

:facepalm: Terry was the Mavs second option when they won't the championship. Stop it

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 10:28 AM
You have to understand from a Pacers perspective no one gave us a shot against the Knicks and the Heat so we do have a chip on our shoulder. The other thing to is that our arena gets filled with dregs of Chicago who can't afford to watch their own team in their own state. It would similar as Indiana sending all the trailor park trash to your arena. It doesn't represent Bulls fans as a whole but we still have to deal with a level idiocy that is unmatched by any other sports fans that visit our town.

i went to the pacers game 3 playoffs ago for game 4, the one we lost. i'm not sure about regular season, but i would be frustrated if the bulls arena was overwhelmed with other teams fans. whenever the heat, lakers, or knicks come to chicago there are many of their fans, not outnumbering chicago fans by any means, but it's still annoying. but i have to say, as a chicago fan, it's awesome to see the fans whenever i watch bulls road games. there is definitely a strong bulls following around the country.

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 10:32 AM
If we are talking about seeding then I think the Bulls have a strong shot at taking back the division back. If we are talking about a playoff run then I will take my Pacers but in any case the teams won't meet until the second round so it's anyone's guess. A lot of things have changed and if Granger comes back strong and Lance is a solid sixth man I think the Bulls will be overwhelmed with overall talent from the Pacers. So basically I think your one wing defender short to handle PG, Granger and Lance.

the bulls can put drose, jimmy, deng, taj, and noah and have strong d from 1-5. they also have kirk who's solid on d. the rookie snell is supposed to be a good, long defender as well (although he prolly wont see much floor time).

granger is key to this success, as well as who's going to take the alpha role. i would assume it's pg, but it will be interesting to see how they play together now that pg has emerged...

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 11:35 AM
the bulls can put drose, jimmy, deng, taj, and noah and have strong d from 1-5. they also have kirk who's solid on d. the rookie snell is supposed to be a good, long defender as well (although he prolly wont see much floor time).

granger is key to this success, as well as who's going to take the alpha role. i would assume it's pg, but it will be interesting to see how they play together now that pg has emerged...

Defensively I know the Bulls are strong as a unit but breaking down the lineups I figure the defense will look something like this..

Starting 5.
Hill
PG
Granger
Dwest
Hibbert

Rose
Jimmy Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

That starting five defensively is solid on both sides with very few weaknesses but the bench is where I was going with the response.

IF Lance is the 6th man then that puts either Dunleavy, Snell or Kirk on him and to me that is a miss match since Lance's handles are problematic for Dun and Kirk.

I was going to post that Taj was going to play well against Scola but after looking at their head to head numbers I will say that Scola will win that matchup as well. See, http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=gibsota01&p2=scolalu01

I am actually suprised by those numbers that Scola put up so who knows..

In either case the Pacers have changed dramatically since we faced the Bulls with a healthy Rose. Hibbert's weakside and pnr defense is on another level with enforcement of the vertical rule as well.

Hill by all accounts is a much better defender than Collision and TJ Ford and if anything is more reliable than both of them as well. The Pacers have improved their three point shooting with their backups (Watson over TJ ford) Copeland over Hans or McRoberts offensively speaking. In addition Scola over whomever you choose for stretching the floor.

The rim protection is also better with the addition Ian over an old Jeff Foster so when Hibbert has to sit its not like that pnr will not go unchallenged by our backup Center.

Granger and Lance are still the key though. I think Lance will be the 6th man who will run fast breaks and also break down the opposing defense while also playing very good defense on limited minutes which is why I think you are one wing defender short to handle Lance.

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 11:51 AM
lmao you know jr is only 27 right and he made great strides to improve his game this year up until the suspension in the Celtics series he was our 2nd best player all year you know on a 54 win team reigning 6th man of the year

I think JR game is fine during the regular season but he is no Jason Terry. You need discpline basketball players and JR isn't one of them so that is why I think he folds under pressure since playoff basketball always increases the defensive pressure a player like JR will just settle for ill advised shots.

east fb knicks
08-07-2013, 12:03 PM
I think JR game is fine during the regular season but he is no Jason Terry. You need discpline basketball players and JR isn't one of them so that is why I think he folds under pressure since playoff basketball always increases the defensive pressure a player like JR will just settle for ill advised shots.

you might be right only because I have no proof behind him not choking in the playoffs but if you watched him this year he was playing great in the playoffs up until the terry elbow and then in the pacers series he was hurt you could see him not jumping as high and his shot was off and I blame that on the coach for not playing cope and iman more

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 12:04 PM
Defensively I know the Bulls are strong as a unit but breaking down the lineups I figure the defense will look something like this..

Starting 5.
Hill
PG
Granger
Dwest
Hibbert

Rose
Jimmy Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

That starting five defensively is solid on both sides with very few weaknesses but the bench is where I was going with the response.

IF Lance is the 6th man then that puts either Dunleavy, Snell or Kirk on him and to me that is a miss match since Lance's handles are problematic for Dun and Kirk.

I was going to post that Taj was going to play well against Scola but after looking at their head to head numbers I will say that Scola will win that matchup as well. See, http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=gibsota01&p2=scolalu01

I am actually suprised by those numbers that Scola put up so who knows..

In either case the Pacers have changed dramatically since we faced the Bulls with a healthy Rose. Hibbert's weakside and pnr defense is on another level with enforcement of the vertical rule as well.

Hill by all accounts is a much better defender than Collision and TJ Ford and if anything is more reliable than both of them as well. The Pacers have improved their three point shooting with their backups (Watson over TJ ford) Copeland over Hans or McRoberts offensively speaking. In addition Scola over whomever you choose for stretching the floor.

The rim protection is also better with the addition Ian over an old Jeff Foster so when Hibbert has to sit its not like that pnr will not go unchallenged by our backup Center.

Granger and Lance are still the key though. I think Lance will be the 6th man who will run fast breaks and also break down the opposing defense while also playing very good defense on limited minutes which is why I think you are one wing defender short to handle Lance.

Kirk is probably one of the better defenders in the league. i think in limited minutes, he'll be fine...

i'd be hesitant to declare scola winning a matchup over taj based on that link. is that when they were both on the floor? guarding eachother? scola's last few years have been rather unimpressive. he's a great pickup as a role player, but i don't think he'll be much more at this point in his career.

the rest of your points i can't really argue. the pacers are definitely much improved since last seeing the bulls in the postseason. but there's that old adage, that the benches get real tight in the playoffs. not saying you don't need 10 deep, because you do, but it's not going to be the entire bench on the floor at once.

the bulls usually play deng with the second unit, at least for a few. Taj will see some time with boozer as well. i'm sure you'll see drose and kirk on the floor at times. as well as MDJ with either deng or jimmy.. my biggest concern, if we're talking about reserves, is at center. i'm still hopeful the bulls get another backup for noah, and i'll like to see him around the 35 min mark. the rest of the starters should be able to have manageable rotations.

i'm definitely looking forward to this season, though, especially after two postseasons of no drose..

east fb knicks
08-07-2013, 12:08 PM
Defensively I know the Bulls are strong as a unit but breaking down the lineups I figure the defense will look something like this..

Starting 5.
Hill
PG
Granger
Dwest
Hibbert

Rose
Jimmy Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

That starting five defensively is solid on both sides with very few weaknesses but the bench is where I was going with the response.

IF Lance is the 6th man then that puts either Dunleavy, Snell or Kirk on him and to me that is a miss match since Lance's handles are problematic for Dun and Kirk.

I was going to post that Taj was going to play well against Scola but after looking at their head to head numbers I will say that Scola will win that matchup as well. See, http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=gibsota01&p2=scolalu01

I am actually suprised by those numbers that Scola put up so who knows..

In either case the Pacers have changed dramatically since we faced the Bulls with a healthy Rose. Hibbert's weakside and pnr defense is on another level with enforcement of the vertical rule as well.

Hill by all accounts is a much better defender than Collision and TJ Ford and if anything is more reliable than both of them as well. The Pacers have improved their three point shooting with their backups (Watson over TJ ford) Copeland over Hans or McRoberts offensively speaking. In addition Scola over whomever you choose for stretching the floor.

The rim protection is also better with the addition Ian over an old Jeff Foster so when Hibbert has to sit its not like that pnr will not go unchallenged by our backup Center.

Granger and Lance are still the key though. I think Lance will be the 6th man who will run fast breaks and also break down the opposing defense while also playing very good defense on limited minutes which is why I think you are one wing defender short to handle Lance.

I disagree George showed that he is on another level at sf and imagine the fire power with granger coming off the bench a much more balanced lineup imo but it pretty much makes you wonder why they signed Copeland I don't see how he is going to get any pt playing behind George and granger

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 12:26 PM
Kirk is probably one of the better defenders in the league. i think in limited minutes, he'll be fine...

i'd be hesitant to declare scola winning a matchup over taj based on that link. is that when they were both on the floor? guarding eachother? scola's last few years have been rather unimpressive. he's a great pickup as a role player, but i don't think he'll be much more at this point in his career.

the rest of your points i can't really argue. the pacers are definitely much improved since last seeing the bulls in the postseason. but there's that old adage, that the benches get real tight in the playoffs. not saying you don't need 10 deep, because you do, but it's not going to be the entire bench on the floor at once.

the bulls usually play deng with the second unit, at least for a few. Taj will see some time with boozer as well. i'm sure you'll see drose and kirk on the floor at times. as well as MDJ with either deng or jimmy.. my biggest concern, if we're talking about reserves, is at center. i'm still hopeful the bulls get another backup for noah, and i'll like to see him around the 35 min mark. the rest of the starters should be able to have manageable rotations.

i'm definitely looking forward to this season, though, especially after two postseasons of no drose..
Taj on Scola I don't see how that will matter because the overall point is that the combination of Dwest and Scola is greater than Boozer and Taj. I am sure some of Scola's numbers were against Taj but in either case I look at what the combination is vs the strength and weaknesses of the other PF combination.

Meaning Scola will stretch the Bulls defense which will help free up the passing and driving lanes.

As for Hinrich I would assume he would be on Cj Watson or Hill.

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 12:39 PM
I disagree George showed that he is on another level at sf and imagine the fire power with granger coming off the bench a much more balanced lineup imo but it pretty much makes you wonder why they signed Copeland I don't see how he is going to get any pt playing behind George and granger

Copeland was viewed as a stretch 4 not a replacement for the 3. Indiana was a pretty poor three point shooting team last year and that made Hibberts/West life in the post harder than it needed to be.

The reason I say that Granger will start is because the coach has said if he is healthy he will start. Granger has been in Indy pretty much the entire rehab and he is already shooting so I see him starting for the Pacers but in anycase we have 82 games to figure out what works as a starting unit and I am sure Lance will see a lot of playing time early in the season.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 12:40 PM
If we are talking about seeding then I think the Bulls have a strong shot at taking back the division back. If we are talking about a playoff run then I will take my Pacers but in any case the teams won't meet until the second round so it's anyone's guess. A lot of things have changed and if Granger comes back strong and Lance is a solid sixth man I think the Bulls will be overwhelmed with overall talent from the Pacers. So basically I think your one wing defender short to handle PG, Granger and Lance.

U keep talking about this "one Wing defender short" garbage but is all 3 going to be in at once? And stop acting like Lance is some offensive juggernaut. He's not. In fact, he was one of the reasons the pacers eventually didn't get past Miami. He was good against the Knick(a weak minded defensive team), but when it came to performing against an elite team he was nothing. I wouldn't worry much about him. I doubt he make any significant impact against a defense like the bulls, Thibs has a knack for taking marginal players like him out the game.

Here's how I see the pacers and bulls. I like the pacers very much. And I'm a bulls fan. I don't hate them like some bulls fans do. But I give Indy props because they don't do all that floppy garbage and PG is on his way to being a superstar. But my question is this, we have two guys that can potential slow George and Granger. And Noah will likely contain Hibbert. But when it comes to Rose, the pacers have no one to contain him IMO. if rosé returns to form, though PG is great, I don't think he can stay in front of him. Good series but I think Bulls pulls it out.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-07-2013, 12:54 PM
U keep talking about this "one Wing defender short" garbage but is all 3 going to be in at once? And stop acting like Lance is some offensive juggernaut. He's not. In fact, he was one of the reasons the pacers eventually didn't get past Miami. He was good against the Knick(a weak minded defensive team), but when it came to performing against an elite team he was nothing. I wouldn't worry much about him. I doubt he make any significant impact against a defense like the bulls, Thibs has a knack for taking marginal players like him out the game.

Here's how I see the pacers and bulls. I like the pacers very much. And I'm a bulls fan. I don't hate them like some bulls fans do. But I give Indy props because they don't do all that floppy garbage and PG is on his way to being a superstar. But my question is this, we have two guys that can potential slow George and Granger. And Noah will likely contain Hibbert. But when it comes to Rose, the pacers have no one to contain him IMO. if rosé returns to form, though PG is great, I don't think he can stay in front of him. Good series but I think Bulls pulls it out.

+ you have to imagine in a playoff series, Deng, Butler, and likely Noah are playing 38+ minutes. Probably over 40 for Deng and Butler. Us being a wing defender short to handle a guy like Lance Stephenson is laughable. We already have 2 premier wing defenders, on top of a stout team defense. I think he forgets (or doesn't know) how good the Bulls help defense is, which is a big reason why its so successful.

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 01:26 PM
+ you have to imagine in a playoff series, Deng, Butler, and likely Noah are playing 38+ minutes. Probably over 40 for Deng and Butler. Us being a wing defender short to handle a guy like Lance Stephenson is laughable. We already have 2 premier wing defenders, on top of a stout team defense. I think he forgets (or doesn't know) how good the Bulls help defense is, which is a big reason why its so successful.

I don't project they can handle that many minutes against PG, Granger, and Lance which is really the story of the Bulls. They play so hard all the games that they end up being hurt in the end. Maybe that changes but Bulls fans are high on Butler just like Pacer fans are high on Lance and there is nothing wrong with projecting a player will indeed improve over the course of a season which most Pacer and Bulls fans are hoping for with their young players.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 01:48 PM
I don't project they can handle that many minutes against PG, Granger, and Lance which is really the story of the Bulls. They play so hard all the games that they end up being hurt in the end. Maybe that changes but Bulls fans are high on Butler just like Pacer fans are high on Lance and there is nothing wrong with projecting a player will indeed improve over the course of a season which most Pacer and Bulls fans are hoping for with their young players.

Here's the deal. PG and Granger are studs. I'll give u that. But Lance with his 8ppg is not. You really need to get that, he's not that guy. Against the Knicks Lance was brilliant, but against the Heat, I was pulling for he Pacers and I remember saying "damn, this guy sucks". I mean, he really hurt Indy with constant missed shots and some very silly decision making. He's just not the player u Making him out to be. Paul George WOW'ed me and made me a fan, but lance, I was like "he garbage". And Hibbert made me a fan to, lol, shout outs to the big man from Georgetown. But lance? Are u serious? Man please. That guy is nothing to write home about. And against our defense, that's small change. Hell, I'm more concern with Scola to be honest. Very nice addition. I would say perimeter defense is a bulls strength.

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 01:52 PM
I don't project they can handle that many minutes against PG, Granger, and Lance which is really the story of the Bulls. They play so hard all the games that they end up being hurt in the end. Maybe that changes but Bulls fans are high on Butler just like Pacer fans are high on Lance and there is nothing wrong with projecting a player will indeed improve over the course of a season which most Pacer and Bulls fans are hoping for with their young players.

there is absolutely no comparison between jimmy and stephenson. as far as i can see, jimmy projection is more in line with pg than ls..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=stephla01&y1=2013&p2=butleji01&y2=2013&p3=georgpa01&y3=2012

both jimmy's and pg's second season in the league. I threw in Lance's last season for comparison. i know you weren't directly comparing JB to LS, just the hopes of improvement from fans... but the projections still stand, Jimmy and drose could quite possibly be the best back-court in the league...

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 02:00 PM
U keep talking about this "one Wing defender short" garbage but is all 3 going to be in at once? And stop acting like Lance is some offensive juggernaut. He's not. In fact, he was one of the reasons the pacers eventually didn't get past Miami. He was good against the Knick(a weak minded defensive team), but when it came to performing against an elite team he was nothing. I wouldn't worry much about him. I doubt he make any significant impact against a defense like the bulls, Thibs has a knack for taking marginal players like him out the game.

Here's how I see the pacers and bulls. I like the pacers very much. And I'm a bulls fan. I don't hate them like some bulls fans do. But I give Indy props because they don't do all that floppy garbage and PG is on his way to being a superstar. But my question is this, we have two guys that can potential slow George and Granger. And Noah will likely contain Hibbert. But when it comes to Rose, the pacers have no one to contain him IMO. if rosé returns to form, though PG is great, I don't think he can stay in front of him. Good series but I think Bulls pulls it out.

To answer your question about Rose I will say we will have Hibbert back in the paint and to challenge his shots and that may indeed leave someone open but the Pacers are strong at containing the 3 and the Bulls only have one starting wing (Butler) who can shoot it from that range. Meaning they are easier to defend with only one deep threat on the court.

Rose will face a better overall defensive team than he has seen from the likes of the Pacers. Hibbert has evolved to the point where he alters games with his help defense. Words I thought I would never say but to your question that is how we will defend Rose. Our second level of defense will contain him or atleast that is what we are relying on.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 02:03 PM
there is absolutely no comparison between jimmy and stephenson. as far as i can see, jimmy projection is more in line with pg than ls..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=stephla01&y1=2013&p2=butleji01&y2=2013&p3=georgpa01&y3=2012

both jimmy's and pg's second season in the league. I threw in Lance's last season for comparison. i know you weren't directly comparing JB to LS, just the hopes of improvement from fans... but the projections still stand, Jimmy and drose could quite possibly be the best back-court in the league...

Now here's something that I must comment on. From one bulls fan to another, JIMMY BUTLER IS NOT PAUL GEORGE. just because stats are similar in a certain year doesn't mean JB has superstar potential, as does Paul George. Please get off that! Hey, I love JB just like u but he's no George and I don't see him ever being that kind of player. He's good but I think George has a shot to be a superstar after last years playoffs. George took the reigns and not only led the Pacers to the ECF, but 1 game away from the finals. Butler isn't doing that. Butler is more of a hustle player. He's not taking Lebron off the dribble for the and 1 on birdman IMO.

Butler not doing this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bFI4CJdX66Y

Even Lebron had to shake his hand on that lol

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 02:09 PM
there is absolutely no comparison between jimmy and stephenson. as far as i can see, jimmy projection is more in line with pg than ls..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=stephla01&y1=2013&p2=butleji01&y2=2013&p3=georgpa01&y3=2012

both jimmy's and pg's second season in the league. I threw in Lance's last season for comparison. i know you weren't directly comparing JB to LS, just the hopes of improvement from fans... but the projections still stand, Jimmy and drose could quite possibly be the best back-court in the league...

Two things here for you. Lance is a year younger than Jimmy Butler and came into the league probably 5 years less as far as maturity goes. He has been in the league longer but make no mistake he is very talented and hasn't really scratched his potential yet. He mentally had to mature which to Jimmy's credit he didn't but as far as overall talent (ball handling, shooting, passing, rebounding and defense) all Pacer fans see him as very strong starter once Granger leaves.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 02:10 PM
To answer your question about Rose I will say we will have Hibbert back in the paint and to challenge his shots and that may indeed leave someone open but the Pacers are strong at containing the 3 and the Bulls only have one starting wing (Butler) who can shoot it from that range. Meaning they are easier to defend with only one deep threat on the court.

Rose will face a better overall defensive team than he has seen from the likes of the Pacers. Hibbert has evolved to the point where he alters games with his help defense. Words I thought I would never say but to your question that is how we will defend Rose. Our second level of defense will contain him or atleast that is what we are relying on.

Can't argue that. But u don't necessarily have to be a 3 baller to make someone pay, Deng not a great 3point shooter, in fact I think he sucks from behind the arc. But inside the 3 Deng can make any shot. Boozer has some range and Noah is smart. One thing about the bulls is they are very smart as a team and is a very good passing team. If rosé is breaking down the defense chances are someone is going to get a good shot somewhere. But who's breaking down our defense? GRANGER? Nope. Not that kind of slasher. PG maybe but consistently against butler? I don't think so and I love PG's game. Butler has bothered Melo, Lebron, and Kobe. And I think his defense will get even better once his game matures. So I like him on PG.

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 02:11 PM
Now here's something that I must comment on. From one bulls fan to another, JIMMY BUTLER IS NOT PAUL GEORGE. just because stats are similar in a certain year doesn't mean JB has superstar potential, as does Paul George. Please get off that! Hey, I love JB just like u but he's no George and I don't see him ever being that kind of player. He's good but I think George has a shot to be a superstar after last years playoffs. George took the reigns and not only led the Pacers to the ECF, but 1 game away from the finals. Butler isn't doing that. Butler is more of a hustle player. He's not taking Lebron off the dribble for the and 1 on birdman IMO.

Butler not doing this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bFI4CJdX66Y

Even Lebron had to shake his hand on that lol

My point is, nobody saw pg being a superstar until his third year, and they're first two years are very comparable.. i'm not saying JB will be a superstar the way it appears pg is heading, but i'm pretty sure nobody would've believed that clip of pg at the beginning of last season..

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 02:14 PM
To answer your question about Rose I will say we will have Hibbert back in the paint and to challenge his shots and that may indeed leave someone open but the Pacers are strong at containing the 3 and the Bulls only have one starting wing (Butler) who can shoot it from that range. Meaning they are easier to defend with only one deep threat on the court.

Rose will face a better overall defensive team than he has seen from the likes of the Pacers. Hibbert has evolved to the point where he alters games with his help defense. Words I thought I would never say but to your question that is how we will defend Rose. Our second level of defense will contain him or atleast that is what we are relying on.

You have hibbert evolving, yet the bulls team being the same team they were 3 years ago. okay. the fact is, boozer is better, noah is better, and the bulls replaced bogans with butler. this bulls team is a much better team than the one that beat the pacers 3 years ago as well..

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 02:19 PM
You have hibbert evolving, yet the bulls team being the same team they were 3 years ago. okay. the fact is, boozer is better, noah is better, and the bulls replaced bogans with butler. this bulls team is a much better team than the one that beat the pacers 3 years ago as well..

The question was how do we contain or limit Rose. The answer was our anchor in Hibbert which is yet to be decided. I realize its not the same Bulls team but this is how we are going to play Rose on the pnr which frees him up to wreck havoc in the lane.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 02:23 PM
My point is, nobody saw pg being a superstar until his third year, and they're first two years are very comparable.. i'm not saying JB will be a superstar the way it appears pg is heading, but i'm pretty sure nobody would've believed that clip of pg at the beginning of last season..

Look at the skill set. Paul George could dribble and showed flashes of playmaking. Butler shows no playmaking ability whatsoever. Not trying to diminished Butler because he is the key going forward, but I'm just saying ppl need to be aware that he's not about to be Paul George.

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 02:33 PM
Can't argue that. But u don't necessarily have to be a 3 baller to make someone pay, Deng not a great 3point shooter, in fact I think he sucks from behind the arc. But inside the 3 Deng can make any shot. Boozer has some range and Noah is smart. One thing about the bulls is they are very smart as a team and is a very good passing team. If rosé is breaking down the defense chances are someone is going to get a good shot somewhere. But who's breaking down our defense? GRANGER? Nope. Not that kind of slasher. PG maybe but consistently against butler? I don't think so and I love PG's game. Butler has bothered Melo, Lebron, and Kobe. And I think his defense will get even better once his game matures. So I like him on PG.

Its an interesting question because the Pacers don't normally break defenses down. We play the matchup or the miss match. So to free up PG we run him off of screens and curls to get him the ball on a catch and shoot. We also let iso our bigs to go one on one with other bigs. When the double teams come we rotate the ball for a three point shot.

The Pacers offense isn't about breaking a defense down. For David West its about the pnp and when that isn't their he will iso the opposing pf. The addition of Granger is interesting since it really spreads the floor for Hibbert or West to go to work while not getting the double team. This is something that the Bulls do well but they will have to rotate to three 3 point shooters on the wings (Hill, Granger, PG). PG and Hill can also slash a little if the rotation is quick enough.

I really chalk up the Bulls chances to health. They simply always have nagging injuries so if guys like Deng, Noah are bothered yet again then I don't think the Bulls will have enough.

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 02:39 PM
Look at the skill set. Paul George could dribble and showed flashes of playmaking. Butler shows no playmaking ability whatsoever. Not trying to diminished Butler because he is the key going forward, but I'm just saying ppl need to be aware that he's not about to be Paul George.

I think i've gone out of my way to say this. my point was, and still is, that his trajectory in his second year is similar to pg.. and IMO, butler is better and drawing contact and getting to the line than pg is, and is a better rebounder and 3pt shooter.

bearadonisdna
08-07-2013, 02:41 PM
Look at the skill set. Paul George could dribble and showed flashes of playmaking. Butler shows no playmaking ability whatsoever. Not trying to diminished Butler because he is the key going forward, but I'm just saying ppl need to be aware that he's not about to be Paul George.

You cant act like pG is this unattainable level that JImmy cant achieve. Role wise will they be different sure, cuz Jimmy wont be a number 1 option for the Bulls with Rose around. Thats fine.

But PG with 17 ppg is only one ppg higher than the guys who some say arent even a second option boozer and deng.

bearadonisdna
08-07-2013, 02:51 PM
The question was how do we contain or limit Rose. The answer was our anchor in Hibbert which is yet to be decided. I realize its not the same Bulls team but this is how we are going to play Rose on the pnr which frees him up to wreck havoc in the lane.

The answer is that its basically fn impossible. :mad:


Or at least i hope so ;)

OlivaThor
08-07-2013, 03:01 PM
Teams from big markets will be always overrated by their fans

bearadonisdna
08-07-2013, 03:23 PM
Teams from big markets will be always overrated by their fans

Small market fans are not exempt from overrating their teams or players. Some markets more than most.

WadeKobe
08-07-2013, 03:24 PM
No. The Bulls are the second est team in the east.

They have top3 players at PG, C, and SF with a fantastic up and coming SG. And Dunleavy and Gibson are both very good coming off the bench. This is a great team.

LegendsNvrDie23
08-07-2013, 03:29 PM
No. The Bulls are the second est team in the east.

They have top3 players at PG, C, and SF with a fantastic up and coming SG. And Dunleavy and Gibson are both very good coming off the bench. This is a great team.

This. The Heat are in trouble this year. No more free cake walk rings for Lebron.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 03:29 PM
Its an interesting question because the Pacers don't normally break defenses down. We play the matchup or the miss match. So to free up PG we run him off of screens and curls to get him the ball on a catch and shoot. We also let iso our bigs to go one on one with other bigs. When the double teams come we rotate the ball for a three point shot.

The Pacers offense isn't about breaking a defense down. For David West its about the pnp and when that isn't their he will iso the opposing pf. The addition of Granger is interesting since it really spreads the floor for Hibbert or West to go to work while not getting the double team. This is something that the Bulls do well but they will have to rotate to three 3 point shooters on the wings (Hill, Granger, PG). PG and Hill can also slash a little if the rotation is quick enough.

I really chalk up the Bulls chances to health. They simply always have nagging injuries so if guys like Deng, Noah are bothered yet again then I don't think the Bulls will have enough.

Agreed! If Bulls are not 100% then a team like Indy is to much to overcome.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 03:34 PM
I think i've gone out of my way to say this. my point was, and still is, that his trajectory in his second year is similar to pg.. and IMO, butler is better and drawing contact and getting to the line than pg is, and is a better rebounder and 3pt shooter.

Doesn't matter. The better 3pt shooter? I can't really even say that. But If so its probably marginal. In fact I feel uncomfortable with this comparison, I feel it's silly to compare the two right now because its PG by a mile. That's like as a bulls fan someone coming to me and saying Brandon Jennings can avg. 20ppg so therefore he's comparable to Derrick Rose.

OlivaThor
08-07-2013, 03:35 PM
No. The Bulls are the second est team in the east.

They have top3 players at PG, C, and SF with a fantastic up and coming SG. And Dunleavy and Gibson are both very good coming off the bench. This is a great team.

Top 3 sf? Did they trade for Lebron, KD or Melo?

WadeKobe
08-07-2013, 03:39 PM
Top 3 sf? Did they trade for Lebron, KD or Melo?

Eh, I actually have Deng and Melo the same moving forward around 4 or 5, depending on where we put George (SF or SG). But Melo is super overrated and deng is super underrated.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 03:41 PM
You cant act like pG is this unattainable level that JImmy cant achieve. Role wise will they be different sure, cuz Jimmy wont be a number 1 option for the Bulls with Rose around. Thats fine.

But PG with 17 ppg is only one ppg higher than the guys who some say arent even a second option boozer and deng.

Stop thinking everything in terms of numbers and look at skill set and talent. Paul George is a playmaker and can facilitate. Though he only bag 17 ppg, PG has other talents and abilities that another 17 ppg may not have. Basketball is way more than numbers. For example, Deng can do the same exact numbers but there is no gm that would take him ahead of PG. u have to look at skillets and ability. Swap Deng for PG and the pacers don't get past the Knicks last year.

D1JM
08-07-2013, 03:43 PM
Doesn't matter. The better 3pt shooter? I can't really even say that. But If so its probably marginal. In fact I feel uncomfortable with this comparison, I feel it's silly to compare the two right now because its PG by a mile. That's like as a bulls fan someone coming to me and saying Brandon Jennings can avg. 20ppg so therefore he's comparable to Derrick Rose.

PG is a mile ahead ahead because he dunked on birdman and Lebron gave him a high five? is that why?

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 03:49 PM
PG is a mile ahead ahead because he dunked on birdman and Lebron gave him a high five? is that why?

check out this clip!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPQz0ggVU30

does that prove jimmy is athletic and can dunk over people? maybe that mile is a half mile now, after that clip!

Shmontaine
08-07-2013, 03:54 PM
Doesn't matter. The better 3pt shooter? I can't really even say that. But If so its probably marginal. In fact I feel uncomfortable with this comparison, I feel it's silly to compare the two right now because its PG by a mile. That's like as a bulls fan someone coming to me and saying Brandon Jennings can avg. 20ppg so therefore he's comparable to Derrick Rose.

actually, you can say he's a better 3 pt shooter than pg. probably by a mile... the stats are there for viewing whenever you care to look. jimmy, getting more playing time after the asb, shot .475. PG shot .37 is since becoming a starter. that's a big disparity..

just because you feel uncomfortable with this comparison, doesn't mean it's not actually a comparison that can't be made..

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 03:56 PM
PG is a mile ahead ahead because he dunked on birdman and Lebron gave him a high five? is that why?

Its not yet a realistic expectiation IMO. PG is still younger than Jimmy Butler and by all accounts has better measureables than Jimmy.

I think Jimmy is a very hard worker and to his credit I think he will max out his ceiling but who knows what that is but PG hasn't even maxed his out yet.

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 03:57 PM
actually, you can say he's a better 3 pt shooter than pg. probably by a mile... the stats are there for viewing whenever you care to look. jimmy, getting more playing time after the asb, shot .475. PG shot .37 is since becoming a starter. that's a big disparity..

just because you feel uncomfortable with this comparison, doesn't mean it's not actually a comparison that can't be made..
Huh?

PG in his second year took twice as many threes as Jimmy this year. PG in his third year took over 450 threes to Jimmys 105. If you think Jimmy can take that many threes and keep his percentages really high then your a bigger fan than I thought.

smiddy012
08-07-2013, 04:25 PM
I'm not sure the PG comparison is water-proof, I think the point though is that JB has star potential. And I agree with that after watching the kid grow.

smiddy012
08-07-2013, 04:40 PM
The thing about Stephenson is, sure, he has potential, but is he the PG Indy really needs? Indy needs a PG who can distribute well and stretch the floor with his long range. If they had that, and Hill coming off the bench, they would probably be my favorites in the East (no joke).

But as of now the Bulls 1-5 has the slight edge (when healthy) IMO, but I think we're the most complete starting 5 in the league FWIW. Still Indy and Chicago are 2a and 2b in the East. They are a serious threat to eliminate the Bulls when playoffs come, as are the Heat. In other words, if an injury bug doesn't hit, I think there are 3 elite teams in the East now, all capable of beating each other come post-season (given the situation obviously).

I'm just hoping our starters can stay healthy, cuz we need that 1st seed. Cuz combine health with Thibb's drive & competitiveness, and I'd bet on us having the best regular season record again. Then the Bulls can let Miami and Indy duke it out before they come to Chicago. That will be vital for us.

Captain Moroni
08-07-2013, 04:55 PM
Eh, I actually have Deng and Melo the same moving forward around 4 or 5, depending on where we put George (SF or SG). But Melo is super overrated and deng is super underrated.

Deng = Melo Now that is funny.

MyDRoseLikeDeng
08-07-2013, 05:05 PM
Deng = Melo Now that is funny.

Although I dont think he is right, Deng did make Melo look bad 4 times last season ;)

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 05:09 PM
I'm not sure the PG comparison is water-proof, I think the point though is that JB has star potential. And I agree with that after watching the kid grow.

Hey I get believing in your players and most of the time its hard to separate the potential from the fans talking crazy comparisions.

See... http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?633579-young-T-MAC-vs-Paul-George/page2&highlight=Paul+George+Tracy+McGrady

I think JB could be a all star at some point but PG has yet to fully develop IMO and last year was just the first stepping stone for his crazy comparions.

OlivaThor
08-07-2013, 05:11 PM
Thread is named "Are the Bulls being overrated" and there are opinions that Deng = Melo .. Yes Bulls are overrated

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 05:12 PM
The thing about Stephenson is, sure, he has potential, but is he the PG Indy really needs? Indy needs a PG who can distribute well and stretch the floor with his long range. If they had that, and Hill coming off the bench, they would probably be my favorites in the East (no joke).

But as of now the Bulls 1-5 has the slight edge (when healthy) IMO, but I think we're the most complete starting 5 in the league FWIW. Still Indy and Chicago are 2a and 2b in the East. They are a serious threat to eliminate the Bulls when playoffs come, as are the Heat. In other words, if an injury bug doesn't hit, I think there are 3 elite teams in the East now, all capable of beating each other come post-season (given the situation obviously).

I'm just hoping our starters can stay healthy, cuz we need that 1st seed. Cuz combine health with Thibb's drive & competitiveness, and I'd bet on us having the best regular season record again. Then the Bulls can let Miami and Indy duke it out before they come to Chicago. That will be vital for us.
Lance is not a PG. Hill first full year as a starting pg didn't go that badly imo and I believe the coach has no desire to play Lance in the PG position. He will be a catalyst off the bench if Granger is 100% healthy and Lance can fit that role very nicely.

Captain Moroni
08-07-2013, 08:25 PM
Bulls fans......If the Bulls remain Healthy all year, Is it possible they COULD finish 4-5 seed?

What I am asking is this.....Is it out of the realm of thinking that Brooklyn, Miami, NYK, and Indy play good enough basketball to push the Bulls to 4-5?

Captain Moroni
08-07-2013, 08:26 PM
Indy played well against the Knicks and Heat last spring, will that translate to a 1-2 seed?

WadeKobe
08-07-2013, 08:45 PM
Bulls fans......If the Bulls remain Healthy all year, Is it possible they COULD finish 4-5 seed?

What I am asking is this.....Is it out of the realm of thinking that Brooklyn, Miami, NYK, and Indy play good enough basketball to push the Bulls to 4-5?

3rd seed is as low as I see them fallin.

east fb knicks
08-07-2013, 08:51 PM
Eh, I actually have Deng and Melo the same moving forward around 4 or 5, depending on where we put George (SF or SG). But Melo is super overrated and deng is super underrated.

sig quote material yes!!!!!!!!!!! that has got to be the funniest thing I've ever heard melo overrated lmao i'd hate to see your top 10

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 08:51 PM
Bulls fans......If the Bulls remain Healthy all year, Is it possible they COULD finish 4-5 seed?

What I am asking is this.....Is it out of the realm of thinking that Brooklyn, Miami, NYK, and Indy play good enough basketball to push the Bulls to 4-5?

If the Pacers win the division that will automatically put them as a 4th seed.

east fb knicks
08-07-2013, 08:59 PM
You have hibbert evolving, yet the bulls team being the same team they were 3 years ago. okay. the fact is, boozer is better, noah is better, and the bulls replaced bogans with butler. this bulls team is a much better team than the one that beat the pacers 3 years ago as well..

but isn't that the basis of your argument is that they are the same team from three years ago capable of being the number one seed :facepalm:

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 09:03 PM
Top 3 sf? Did they trade for Lebron, KD or Melo?

LOL. Some people think Deng is better than what he is.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 09:06 PM
Eh, I actually have Deng and Melo the same moving forward around 4 or 5, depending on where we put George (SF or SG). But Melo is super overrated and deng is super underrated.

Lmaoo I'm a bulls fan and u are absolutely 100% wrong!!! Deng doesn't compare to Melo and I don't even like Melo.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 09:09 PM
PG is a mile ahead ahead because he dunked on birdman and Lebron gave him a high five? is that why?

Anyone with basketball common sense knows Jimmy Butler is not in the same league as Paul George. Hey, I'm a bulls fan, but I'm a realist. Just because one is a fan doesn't mean they have to be dumb. Use ur brain

east fb knicks
08-07-2013, 09:11 PM
Copeland was viewed as a stretch 4 not a replacement for the 3. Indiana was a pretty poor three point shooting team last year and that made Hibberts/West life in the post harder than it needed to be.

The reason I say that Granger will start is because the coach has said if he is healthy he will start. Granger has been in Indy pretty much the entire rehab and he is already shooting so I see him starting for the Pacers but in anycase we have 82 games to figure out what works as a starting unit and I am sure Lance will see a lot of playing time early in the season.

idk who lied to you cope is a stick figure with dreads he was never a stretch 4 he is to weak to deal with big 4's but he is a lot better at the 3 I think the pacers were just scared because of what he did to them in the playoffs and at the end of the season when he started at the five so they just signed him to keep him off the knicks lmao

as far as granger goes it's not so much of granger being the problem it's that George is by far no sg he is very good borderline great at the 3 why mess that up I actually think granger is trade bait and Copeland is just a cheap replacement

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 09:12 PM
actually, you can say he's a better 3 pt shooter than pg. probably by a mile... the stats are there for viewing whenever you care to look. jimmy, getting more playing time after the asb, shot .475. PG shot .37 is since becoming a starter. that's a big disparity..

just because you feel uncomfortable with this comparison, doesn't mean it's not actually a comparison that can't be made..

And how long butler been a starter? Not long correct? Small sample size dude. I need to see how he fair over a season and teams have his scouting report.

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 09:16 PM
Huh?

PG in his second year took twice as many threes as Jimmy this year. PG in his third year took over 450 threes to Jimmys 105. If you think Jimmy can take that many threes and keep his percentages really high then your a bigger fan than I thought.

Bro I'm a bulls fan and I got my bulls over ur pacers, but I have to admit some of these bulls fans is pathetic in their knowledge. What it comes down to is blatant homerism. They ride the wagon of whomever is in a bulls uni.

east fb knicks
08-07-2013, 09:17 PM
And how long butler been a starter? Not long correct? Small sample size dude. I need to see how he fair over a season and teams have his scouting report.

ok you sound like a down to earth fan where do you think the bulls will finish this year

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 09:35 PM
ok you sound like a down to earth fan where do you think the bulls will finish this year

I just keeps it real In what I see. I so see the bulls with the no.1 seed for several reasons. Nobody is saying it from the organization, but deep down they know if they don't get to the finals at least, their will be MAJOR changes. And I'm talking anybody besides Rosé is up for discussion. So trust, they will come out balling!! Then Rose is back, that's a big boost. Rose being out helped this team psychologically, and it also let some players develop their game. With the defense they play and two wing defenders, they are going to be tough.

I got Indy 2nd seed. Hibbert and PG both matured last year. They will be hungry. Smart move to Bring in Scola. And granger is another big weapon.

Miami is 3rd seed because as back to back champions, they will coast. IMO. They are a confident team now and knows they don't need HCA. So wouldn't the agenda be to rest Wade as much as possible? Another post season display by wade like last year and they are done. The key for them is a healthy wade so I see them coasting.

Then I have ur Knicks and nets fighting for 4th. The issue with the Knicks that amare and Melo has never flourished together. Amare did at first, but when Melo came he almost disappeared. For NY to achieve their potential it has to be with these two, not Melo and JR Smith.

WadeKobe
08-07-2013, 09:35 PM
sig quote material yes!!!!!!!!!!! that has got to be the funniest thing I've ever heard melo overrated lmao i'd hate to see your top 10

Movin forward @ SF?

LJ
KD
Leonard
George
Igoudala
gallo/Melo/Deng/Ersan

TheLegend
08-07-2013, 10:28 PM
Movin forward @ SF?

LJ
KD
Leonard
George
Igoudala
gallo/Melo/Deng/Ersan

You are really embarrassing yourself and U.O.E.N.O. :facepalm:

Pacerlive
08-07-2013, 11:33 PM
idk who lied to you cope is a stick figure with dreads he was never a stretch 4 he is to weak to deal with big 4's but he is a lot better at the 3 I think the pacers were just scared because of what he did to them in the playoffs and at the end of the season when he started at the five so they just signed him to keep him off the knicks lmao

as far as granger goes it's not so much of granger being the problem it's that George is by far no sg he is very good borderline great at the 3 why mess that up I actually think granger is trade bait and Copeland is just a cheap replacement

You should know by now I don't make statements without having something to back it up. That doesn't make me right but smarter people than me have scouted him and Copeland has been a big topic for Pacer fans.

Copeland PER is 10 points higher as a pf than a sf. His opponents PER is also 1 point lower and his efg%is also lower while guarding PF. The Knicks win % is not different with him playing sf vs pf unless you are going to argue a 1 % difference.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12NYK9.HTM

Enjoy.

WadeKobe
08-08-2013, 12:21 AM
You are really embarrassing yourself and U.O.E.N.O. :facepalm:
Lol. Being considered wrong by the common sports fan usually tells me I am on the right track.

And yes, I would rather have an elite defensive SF who rebounds very well and shoots a high percentage than an average efficiency "scorer" who rebounds poorly and doesn't play D.

That's common sense... But for some reason we act as though that should change once we insert names. Lol.

I am right and you can call it embarrassing all you like. Sounds good to me.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 12:35 AM
Swap Deng for PG and the pacers don't get past the Knicks last year.

I dont really believe that.

KINGBAIZE
08-08-2013, 12:43 AM
This is what I can say about Derrick Rose... he embraces being legendary and being the nxt Jordan type player in the city of Chicago. Nobody else was that brave.

[B]... now he's just about to punish the NBA for doubting him and dominate with his skills... he was already a top 3 player at least, and the youngest MVP in NBA history without any major weight training. (and he already finished at the basket as strong as Lebron then!!!) Rose is about to be a lot bigger and stronger than people anticipate, and with the same athleticism and quickness.'
W/ Jimmy Butler at SG and Deng able to just be a spot up shooter instead of Pippen... we're about to be a dominant team.

I smell RINGS for Chicago.

D1JM
08-08-2013, 01:29 AM
Anyone with basketball common sense knows Jimmy Butler is not in the same league as Paul George. Hey, I'm a bulls fan, but I'm a realist. Just because one is a fan doesn't mean they have to be dumb. Use ur brain

if i use my brain i would go with stats and compare their second year. i mean, some players keep getting better with more nba experience, right?


PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
15.2 .574 .506 7.2 10.4 8.8 8.6 2.0 1.1 9.2 14.6 121 104 4.4 2.6 7.0 .158
16.5 .555 .510 3.2 17.9 10.6 13.6 2.9 1.5 14.0 19.3 108 100 2.8 3.2 6.0 .148


it might be a small sample size but look how lebron did against indiana and chicago


OPP MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
CF 43.3 10.4-20.4 .510 2.1-4.9 .441 6.0-7.7 .778 7.3 5.3 1.4 1.4 2.6 2.9 29.0
CS 41.4 7.0-16.0 .438 1.2-3.4 .353 8.4-10.4.808 7.0 7.8 0.2 2.2 1.2 2.6 23.6

lebron struggled against jimmy. we hardly doubled team him and let a tired jimmy handle lebron. PG might have all the hype right now, but he isn't a mile ahead from jimmy. you know that thibs doesn't play rooks and likes to give minutes to the vets. jimmy proved he belongs in the starting lineup with his performance in the conference semifinals won him the job. i doubt the offense even runs through him, especially at the usage % that PG avg this past year (23.5%). however, he isn't that much ahead, unless you consider youtube a stat.

jp611
08-08-2013, 03:30 AM
And how long butler been a starter? Not long correct? Small sample size dude. I need to see how he fair over a season and teams have his scouting report.

So small sample sizes only apply when you want them to?

Earlier in this thread you used a 6 game sample size of Hibbert's to say he's just as good if not better than Noah.

That's cute.

east fb knicks
08-08-2013, 04:51 AM
You should know by now I don't make statements without having something to back it up. That doesn't make me right but smarter people than me have scouted him and Copeland has been a big topic for Pacer fans.

Copeland PER is 10 points higher as a pf than a sf. His opponents PER is also 1 point lower and his efg%is also lower while guarding PF. The Knicks win % is not different with him playing sf vs pf unless you are going to argue a 1 % difference.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12NYK9.HTM

Enjoy.

bro all his stats are useless lmao forget stats I live in ny and I saw all of their games last year on msg in hd cope only played garbage time a lot of the year woody gave him a chance a couple times but he couldn't hold his own on players bigger than him the same goes for novak but he is a natural sf his d isn't great at either 3 or 4 but atleast you won't get killed on the glass if he's at the 3 why do you think they traded for scola

Pacerlive
08-08-2013, 08:02 AM
bro all his stats are useless lmao forget stats I live in ny and I saw all of their games last year on msg in hd cope only played garbage time a lot of the year woody gave him a chance a couple times but he couldn't hold his own on players bigger than him the same goes for novak but he is a natural sf his d isn't great at either 3 or 4 but atleast you won't get killed on the glass if he's at the 3 why do you think they traded for scola
I do think that's why they traded for Scola but they still wanted a stretch four. The Pacers will be fine on the glass. They had the highest rebound differential in the NBA but in any case he won't be used much if Scola is healthier.

All-In
08-08-2013, 11:16 AM
if i use my brain i would go with stats and compare their second year. i mean, some players keep getting better with more nba experience, right?


PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
15.2 .574 .506 7.2 10.4 8.8 8.6 2.0 1.1 9.2 14.6 121 104 4.4 2.6 7.0 .158
16.5 .555 .510 3.2 17.9 10.6 13.6 2.9 1.5 14.0 19.3 108 100 2.8 3.2 6.0 .148


it might be a small sample size but look how lebron did against indiana and chicago


OPP MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
CF 43.3 10.4-20.4 .510 2.1-4.9 .441 6.0-7.7 .778 7.3 5.3 1.4 1.4 2.6 2.9 29.0
CS 41.4 7.0-16.0 .438 1.2-3.4 .353 8.4-10.4.808 7.0 7.8 0.2 2.2 1.2 2.6 23.6

lebron struggled against jimmy. we hardly doubled team him and let a tired jimmy handle lebron. PG might have all the hype right now, but he isn't a mile ahead from jimmy. you know that thibs doesn't play rooks and likes to give minutes to the vets. jimmy proved he belongs in the starting lineup with his performance in the conference semifinals won him the job. i doubt the offense even runs through him, especially at the usage % that PG avg this past year (23.5%). however, he isn't that much ahead, unless you consider youtube a stat.

Agreed. Paul George is good but so is Jimmy Butler. Not in the same league is inaccurate. George’s offensive points per possession this past year was .89 while Butler had a 1.02 and defensively both were great but Butler had a .76 while George had a .82. Butler might have a small sample size in comparison to George but overall its enough to gage how good Butler is. Plus against the Heat in the playoffs Butler played 44MPG and held LBJ to his worst FG% in the postseason at 44 while PG played 40MPG and LBJ had a 51% FG%.....depending on roses health I give the edge to the Bulls over the Pacers.

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 11:19 AM
I dont really believe that.

That's because u are a homer. Deng couldn't lead the bulls past a 8th seed 76ers team when Rose went down. The reason if u swap Deng for Pg the pacers lose is because Deng is NOT a playmaker. He's not going to facilitate like PG. Deng couldn't even beat Kendrik Perkins on a ISO play off the dribble. :facepalm:

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 11:33 AM
if i use my brain i would go with stats and compare their second year. i mean, some players keep getting better with more nba experience, right?


PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
15.2 .574 .506 7.2 10.4 8.8 8.6 2.0 1.1 9.2 14.6 121 104 4.4 2.6 7.0 .158
16.5 .555 .510 3.2 17.9 10.6 13.6 2.9 1.5 14.0 19.3 108 100 2.8 3.2 6.0 .148


Throw those stats in the g
it might be a small sample size but look how lebron did against indiana and chicago


OPP MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
CF 43.3 10.4-20.4 .510 2.1-4.9 .441 6.0-7.7 .778 7.3 5.3 1.4 1.4 2.6 2.9 29.0
CS 41.4 7.0-16.0 .438 1.2-3.4 .353 8.4-10.4.808 7.0 7.8 0.2 2.2 1.2 2.6 23.6

lebron struggled against jimmy. we hardly doubled team him and let a tired jimmy handle lebron. PG might have all the hype right now, but he isn't a mile ahead from jimmy. you know that thibs doesn't play rooks and likes to give minutes to the vets. jimmy proved he belongs in the starting lineup with his performance in the conference semifinals won him the job. i doubt the offense even runs through him, especially at the usage % that PG avg this past year (23.5%). however, he isn't that much ahead, unless you consider youtube a stat.

You can throw those stats right in the garbage and close the lid. You have to understand certain skill sets of certain players, when you do, u will become a more knowledgeable fan. Jimmy isn't a playmaker, PG is a guy that can play the "point forward" role. That's huge in the playoffs. U need guys that can create their own shot consistently and Jimmy butler isn't really that kind of player. But I do agree with u on one thing, his defense is elite IMO. I think he's on his way to being a 1st team all-defensive player. He gave Lebron all he could handle defensively.

But to elaborate on what I said earlier, for example, Ray Allen can avg. 18ppg as a deadly 3pt shooter, and Paul George can avg 17ppg but would be the more impact player due to his skill set and ability to create. And probably avg. more If need be, while Allen could be slowed down tremendously with air tight defense. See Kyle Korver. And this is why a guy like pip was so great. Pip didn't avg. 25ppg, but his skill set allowed him to control tempo and get others involve. So when you stop his individual game, he still effects the game with playmaking. This is why PG is way ahead of Jimmy butler. PG could score 11pts on a game, but still have more impact than someone that scored 16 because of his all-around playmaking. Paul made a real emphasis on getting Hibbert the ball against the Heat. That's huge, that's playmaking. Thats making other players better. So u cant look at numbers and say this player do the same numbers and think he's the same type of player. That's a silly way of thinking, u have to consider the players' type and what do they bring to the game.

Captain Moroni
08-08-2013, 11:34 AM
Jimmy Butler has some serious potential and upside, but please stop putting him in elite status until he actually earns it.
Deng is a great complimentary player but comparing him to George is silly.

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 11:49 AM
So small sample sizes only apply when you want them to?

Earlier in this thread you used a 6 game sample size of Hibbert's to say he's just as good if not better than Noah.

That's cute.


I think I said something along the lines that against the heat Hibbert was a better player correct? And he was. Hibbert avg about 22ppg against Miami while Noah did about 11ppg.

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 11:54 AM
Agreed. Paul George is good but so is Jimmy Butler. Not in the same league is inaccurate. George’s offensive points per possession this past year was .89 while Butler had a 1.02 and defensively both were great but Butler had a .76 while George had a .82. Butler might have a small sample size in comparison to George but overall its enough to gage how good Butler is. Plus against the Heat in the playoffs Butler played 44MPG and held LBJ to his worst FG% in the postseason at 44 while PG played 40MPG and LBJ had a 51% FG%.....depending on roses health I give the edge to the Bulls over the Pacers.

If there was a draft between Jimmy and Paul George right now there is no GM in the league that would even consider taking jimmy butler over Paul George. NOT ONE!! Jimmy is nice but he's not the same player. Paul can get others involve, jimmy would need someone to get him involved. Understand the difference.

FYL_McVeezy
08-08-2013, 12:00 PM
Jimmy Butler has some serious potential and upside, but please stop putting him in elite status until he actually earns it.
Deng is a great complimentary player but comparing him to George is silly.

This!!!!!

And people say we Knick fans overrate Shump :facepalm:

FYL_McVeezy
08-08-2013, 12:02 PM
You can throw those stats right in the garbage and close the lid. You have to understand certain skill sets of certain players, when you do, u will become a more knowledgeable fan. Jimmy isn't a playmaker, PG is a guy that can play the "point forward" role. That's huge in the playoffs. U need guys that can create their own shot consistently and Jimmy butler isn't really that kind of player. But I do agree with u on one thing, his defense is elite IMO. I think he's on his way to being a 1st team all-defensive player. He gave Lebron all he could handle defensively.

But to elaborate on what I said earlier, for example, Ray Allen can avg. 18ppg as a deadly 3pt shooter, and Paul George can avg 17ppg but would be the more impact player due to his skill set and ability to create. And probably avg. more If need be, while Allen could be slowed down tremendously with air tight defense. See Kyle Korver. And this is why a guy like pip was so great. Pip didn't avg. 25ppg, but his skill set allowed him to control tempo and get others involve. So when you stop his individual game, he still effects the game with playmaking. This is why PG is way ahead of Jimmy butler. PG could score 11pts on a game, but still have more impact than someone that scored 16 because of his all-around playmaking. Paul made a real emphasis on getting Hibbert the ball against the Heat. That's huge, that's playmaking. Thats making other players better. So u cant look at numbers and say this player do the same numbers and think he's the same type of player. That's a silly way of thinking, u have to consider the players' type and what do they bring to the game.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

you're taking the stat geeks power away :laugh:

All-In
08-08-2013, 12:40 PM
If there was a draft between Jimmy and Paul George right now there is no GM in the league that would even consider taking jimmy butler over Paul George. NOT ONE!! Jimmy is nice but he's not the same player. Paul can get others involve, jimmy would need someone to get him involved. Understand the difference.

Lol You’re being foolish…Where did I say Butler is better than PG?….did I say Butler is better than PG?....No!!! lol Its comical really….my post was in relation to the fact that while PG is better than Butler he isn’t far and away better…but just better….because defensively I’ll give the nod to Butler but offensively PG is much….much!!! better…it is a 2-way game and PG sucked last year in the postseason and he avg 3.5TO per 36 in the postseason this year…hes a playmaker but by no means an elite playmaker….yet....so I don’t get it…..what’s the problem with me saying that PG is better than Butler? “understand the difference”

KnickaBocka.44
08-08-2013, 12:50 PM
Movin forward @ SF?

LJ
KD
Leonard
George
Igoudala
gallo/Melo/Deng/Ersan

No. Melo, Deng and Andre ae all the same age and Melo's game will be Paul Pierce-like in it's longevity. And I know that's not Ilyasova you're talking about.

You can't really put Granger or Leonard above him either, at least for the time being.

justinnum1
08-08-2013, 12:51 PM
Movin forward @ SF?

LJ
KD
Leonard
George
Igoudala
gallo/Melo/Deng/Ersan

Leronard at 3? Nice fail.

KnickaBocka.44
08-08-2013, 12:52 PM
Lol. Being considered wrong by the common sports fan usually tells me I am on the right track.

And yes, I would rather have an elite defensive SF who rebounds very well and shoots a high percentage than an average efficiency "scorer" who rebounds poorly and doesn't play D.

That's common sense... But for some reason we act as though that should change once we insert names. Lol.

I am right and you can call it embarrassing all you like. Sounds good to me.

simply not true. Melo is an average defender and a pretty good rebounder.

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 01:05 PM
Lol You’re being foolish…Where did I say Butler is better than PG?….did I say Butler is better than PG?....No!!! lol Its comical really….my post was in relation to the fact that while PG is better than Butler he isn’t far and away better…but just better….because defensively I’ll give the nod to Butler but offensively PG is much….much!!! better…it is a 2-way game and PG sucked last year in the postseason and he avg 3.5TO per 36 in the postseason this year…hes a playmaker but by no means an elite playmaker….yet....so I don’t get it…..what’s the problem with me saying that PG is better than Butler? “understand the difference”

Paul George sucked in the playoffs last year? Says who? You? Because most knowledgeable people consider last years playoffs is where George's game went to another level. Yeah he has the turnovers, but that's expected given his usage. He had the ball in his hands the majority of time. If u think Paul George sucked in the playoffs then u clearly don't understand basketball. You probably don't even watch other team, just the bulls. Then go look at the stat sheet and synergy reports and think u know what happened. NOT! U got to watch the games kid!! Nobody but somebody that didn't see the games would think PG sucked in the playoffs last year.

Far as Jimmy vs PG, It's silly to compare the two because the skill sets are different. Do you even know the difference? Probably not. Hint: Jimmy butler is more in-line with the K. Leonards of the league. Got it? Good, now Thank me later.

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 01:22 PM
Some people act like saying another teams player is better than a player on ur team is a slap in the face, it's not. I'm a bulls fan to but it's ok to be honest. Do I think the bulls are better than Indy? Yes and I hope so, would I bet on it? no. Indy has improved. But it's no crime to acknowledge the greatness of other players or teams. In the End, I think the bulls will be the no. 1 seed and has a good a chance as anybody of winning it all this year. I hope that make some ppl feel better because it seems to hurt their feelings If u say a particular player is better than one Of their beloved players.

All-In
08-08-2013, 01:25 PM
Is that a joke right? PG sucked in the playoffs last year…..in 34MPG he avg 9.7PTS on 39% from the field…shot the ball 8.6 times a game…shot 2.5 freethrows a game…shot 27% from 3…VS the heat last year he was the 5th leading scorer on INDY…shot the ball 5th amount of times…I watched that series’ he was timid and unsure of himself….this year was his breakout year….thats why he got Most Improved Player this year…typically they give that award out to players who weren’t that good the year before…no ur right he took his game to the next level lol I back my **** up with facts…by just saying I’m wrong is weak

All-In
08-08-2013, 01:26 PM
The Legend^^^^

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 01:31 PM
Is that a joke right? PG sucked in the playoffs last year…..in 34MPG he avg 9.7PTS on 39% from the field…shot the ball 8.6 times a game…shot 2.5 freethrows a game…shot 27% from 3…VS the heat last year he was the 5th leading scorer on INDY…shot the ball 5th amount of times…I watched that series’ he was timid and unsure of himself….this year was his breakout year….thats why he got Most Improved Player this year…typically they give that award out to players who weren’t that good the year before…no ur right he took his game to the next level lol I back my **** up with facts…by just saying I’m wrong is weak

Whatever, apparently u want to clown around . U know what year I'm talking about, I said last year and I think that means the season that just ended obviously.

All-In
08-08-2013, 01:39 PM
Some people act like saying another teams player is better than a player on ur team is a slap in the face, it's not. I'm a bulls fan to but it's ok to be honest. Do I think the bulls are better than Indy? Yes and I hope so, would I bet on it? no. Indy has improved. But it's no crime to acknowledge the greatness of other players or teams. In the End, I think the bulls will be the no. 1 seed and has a good a chance as anybody of winning it all this year. I hope that make some ppl feel better because it seems to hurt their feelings If u say a particular player is better than one Of their beloved players.
And by the way an option of synergy sports is a breakdown of every game….meaning I watch every game play by play…..synergy isn’t just advanced stats man….I think the Bulls pose the biggest threat against the Heat next year….u just need to relax

All-In
08-08-2013, 01:44 PM
Whatever, apparently u want to clown around . U know what year I'm talking about, I said last year and I think that means the season that just ended obviously.

Lol right man….re-read my post I said “last year he sucked in the playoffs and THIS year he had 3.5TO per 36”….go ahead re-read it…last year…than THIS year…..nice job man….this was a waste of my time…and PSD’s

Pierzynski4Prez
08-08-2013, 01:59 PM
This!!!!!

And people say we Knick fans overrate Shump :facepalm:

Think you'll agree with me, but don't loop in every fan of a fanbase based off what 1 poster says.We all love Butler over here, but very few of us think he currently is in the same stratosphere as PG. Just like I'm sure most logical Knick fans don't lump shumpert in with elite SG's as well.

astonmartin10
08-08-2013, 02:53 PM
I like the Bulls. Good defensive team and with Rose back great to look out for.

TheIlladelph16
08-08-2013, 02:57 PM
I think some Bulls fans (and who doesn't with their own team?) slightly overrate them, but by-and-large they aren't overrated. Top 5 team in the East, and they could slot anywhere from 1-5. I see it closer to the 4-5 seed with Miami, Indy, and Brooklyn taking the top three spots, but it wouldn't shock me.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 03:29 PM
That's because u are a homer. Deng couldn't lead the bulls past a 8th seed 76ers team when Rose went down. The reason if u swap Deng for Pg the pacers lose is because Deng is NOT a playmaker. He's not going to facilitate like PG. Deng couldn't even beat Kendrik Perkins on a ISO play off the dribble. :facepalm:

:facepalm:

No way man. PG shot 39% in the Knicks series. Sure PG can do other stuff so can Luol. Its bad to say something like this in a year when Luols team didnt lose to the knicks at all. U really have no basis. Replace PG for Deng in the series and Bulls prob still lose.

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 05:03 PM
:facepalm:

No way man. PG shot 39% in the Knicks series. Sure PG can do other stuff so can Luol. Its bad to say something like this in a year when Luols team didnt lose to the knicks at all. U really have no basis. Replace PG for Deng in the series and Bulls prob still lose.

So if u put Deng on the pacers last year for PG do u think they duplicate the same success?

ChicagoJ
08-08-2013, 05:27 PM
There is alot of if's with the bulls right now. Pacers are getting better every year as with a few other teams improving.

I don't see the bulls overachieving what they have done to this point, although as a bulls fan I hope they do. But, they will be at the top of the east due to their coach and defense. So, it's not a stretch to see them at the top of the east where some are picking them.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 05:52 PM
So if u put Deng on the pacers last year for PG do u think they duplicate the same success?

Win the central. Yes. Be lower seeded than the Knicks. Yes.

SportsFanatic10
08-08-2013, 06:10 PM
i don't think they're being overrated. they are a very feisty team that just keeps coming at you no matter what. and they have some damn good players and an amazing coach. with there defense their in nearly ever single game till the end. for all the talk about the pacers lately with their moves, i think if the bulls are healthy they are on the same level as indy and it'd be very hard for me to say which team is better come playoffs. in the regular season i think the bulls will have the better record between the 2 as long as their key guys don't miss stretches of games.

TheLegend
08-08-2013, 06:17 PM
Win the central. Yes. Be lower seeded than the Knicks. Yes.

Lets try to comprehend a little bit better, when I say duplicate the success I'm talking pushing Miami to 7 and one game of the finals.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 06:21 PM
Lets try to comprehend a little bit better, when I say duplicate the success I'm talking pushing Miami to 7 and one game of the finals.

Maybe u should make urself clearer.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 06:22 PM
losing a playoff series isnt exactly success. :facepalm:
hate to break it to you

ChitownbullsBG7
08-08-2013, 06:34 PM
Lets try to comprehend a little bit better, when I say duplicate the success I'm talking pushing Miami to 7 and one game of the finals.

So last year, I guess Boston was better than OKC because they pushed Miami to 7 games. Yes, great Logic there.

Hey everyone in 2011, the 76ers were just as good as Boston because they both lost to Miami 4-1. Man I love this logic.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 07:04 PM
For a team like Indy to make it to the ECF, and a game 7 win away from the finals is considered a successful season for them. Anytime u surpass expectations that's a success. I would expect u to know that. Stop trying to argue just to argue dude.

Im not sure how swapping PG for Luol in the Heat series would affect it. Hibber did most of the heaviy lifting. Swapping basically two number 2 options in the series doesnt seem like this huge decisive swing that can be determined through posts.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 07:12 PM
Good comeback. Glad to see you had to take a personal shot because you had no logical response to an otherwise illogical and pathetic way of determining who is a better team.

Whose the better team? No1 knows. But to say someone is better because they took the Heat to 7 games is just pathetic. Not too mention the Bulls weren't healthy and the fact that this heat team was the weakest it has been in the last 3 years.

But great logic man. So how do you determine who is the better team in football? By determining how many points they lose by to a neutral team?

Yeah i dont have a have a problem discussing with this guy but he throws around the insults like my mother in law throws around her panties.

Pacerlive
08-08-2013, 07:37 PM
Im not sure how swapping PG for Luol in the Heat series would affect it. Hibber did most of the heaviy lifting. Swapping basically two number 2 options in the series doesnt seem like this huge decisive swing that can be determined through posts.
Really? You think Deng could have done that good of a job on Lebron and scored and distrupted that much?

When was the last time Deng did something like what PG did in the playoffs against the best team in the NBA?

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 07:37 PM
Im not exactly married but u get the point.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 07:44 PM
Really? You think Deng could have done that good of a job on Lebron and scored and distrupted that much?

Maybe maybe not. Maybe he wouldnt have had too. They are different players so a Luol Deng pacers may or may not have taken the heat 7 games. That doesnt mean he has to match George's production stat for stat.

Pacerlive
08-08-2013, 08:08 PM
Maybe maybe not. Maybe he wouldnt have had too. They are different players so a Luol Deng pacers may or may not have taken the heat 7 games. That doesnt mean he has to match George's production stat for stat.

Part of the big reason Roy Hibbert went off is that we ran a pnr with PG. The Pacers need a wing to create and thats what he did for Hibbert so he could score that many points. Really if it wasn't for the game 7 dud by PG he would have lead the Pacers in scoring in that series and my best guess is that he got fatigued guarding Josh Smith, MElo then Lebron.

bearadonisdna
08-08-2013, 09:50 PM
Hill
Stephenson
Deng
West
Hibbert
They would be really strong upfront. Kinda weak backcourt. almost the same team. And going by the season average, i know some dont like statistics around here, but luol only averaged one less point than PG on better efficiency and one less assist than PG. So my point is that the talent gap isnt so huge here. I believe the Pacers could replicate a lot of their success in a fictional swap.

jsthornton7
08-08-2013, 09:51 PM
If D. Rose can come back like he was pre-injury they are going to give MIA a **** ton of trouble.

Cal827
08-08-2013, 10:26 PM
If D. Rose can come back like he was pre-injury they are going to give MIA a **** ton of trouble.

This.

If Rose is back to normal, they very well could win the East in the season

Rose
Butler
Deng
Boozer
Noah

Now Playoffs might be another question..

Cal827
08-08-2013, 10:26 PM
Double Posted.

.....:dance:

3RDASYSTEM
08-08-2013, 10:45 PM
The bulls are getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed in the east by so many people. Is this really how good they will be in 2013-14? or do they get ranked so high based off of past results?

We all know that Thibs is a great coach and that players who play for him over-achieve, but how many increase in wins are being based off of Rose coming off a SERIOUS knee injury?

Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously? Bulls fans wanted to run him out of town, and once Rose was gone, he actually played better. Can Rose and Boozer co-exist together on this squad?

Jimmy "Buckets" Butler was a great breakout story last year, will that continue? Will he even get the minutes he had last year?

Deng was so over-used last year, can he overcome the trade talk and mega minutes he will see again?

Noah, My favorite player on that team had so many health issues last year, can he stay on the court?

The Bulls have a lot of questions, are they really a number 1-2 seed?

I don't give'em a free pass at all, they choked away 11' season having the mvp, and then again BRON/HOWARD also could have took claim to that mvp trophy so its really just they got beat by better team and they overachieved past couple yrs because of THIBS and his sick d scheme and team discipline

hopefully ROSE will use BOOZ more than he did previously and it should help BOOZ confidence

BULLS were a top seed with ROSE so its only natural to feel they have a top 3 seeded team when fully healthy because last time that happened they were no 1(with major injuries), so of course ROSE is the engine while NOAH is heart/soul and even ROSE can co star on that role same as NOAH in engine role

BULLS are legit

Captain Moroni
08-09-2013, 11:49 AM
legit yes slightly over rated? probably

Captain Moroni
08-09-2013, 11:50 AM
people act as if over rated is a slap in the face.

TheLegend
08-09-2013, 12:44 PM
I don't think the Bulls are overrated as a "team" though. No.1 seed is very attainable for them when you consider they achieved that very goal two years in a row prior to last year.

effen5
08-10-2013, 12:56 PM
people act as if over rated is a slap in the face.

But they aren't overrated. Thats the point.

east fb knicks
08-10-2013, 07:45 PM
with the knicks getting beno it puts them as 2nd best in the east imo

Tony_Starks
08-10-2013, 09:52 PM
with the knicks getting beno it puts them as 2nd best in the east imo

Beno Udrich? Really? I mean he's serviceable but he doesn't strike me as a huge difference maker....

C-Wick925
08-10-2013, 10:01 PM
Sure why not

Cubby
08-11-2013, 12:19 AM
with the knicks getting beno it puts them as 2nd best in the east imo

Really?

east fb knicks
08-11-2013, 06:13 AM
Beno Udrich? Really? I mean he's serviceable but he doesn't strike me as a huge difference maker....

we already got the weapons all we needed was a back up pg and beno is more than that beno might end up being the starter at the end of the year

jp611
08-11-2013, 08:34 AM
:laugh:

MDJ is a career scrub, but Beno is the guy who solidifies the Knicks as a 2 seed

:laugh:

NJrockPD
08-11-2013, 08:54 AM
Now that is overrating a team. The Knicks are not all that good and Beno does not boost them above the Heat, Nets, Pacers, or Bulls.

NJrockPD
08-11-2013, 08:57 AM
we already got the weapons all we needed was a back up pg and beno is more than that beno might end up being the starter at the end of the year

And that is exactly the reason the Knicks are not a top two team in the east. I will give you they are the second best team in the Atlantic division.

Goose17
08-11-2013, 09:13 AM
I don't give'em a free pass at all, they choked away 11' season having the mvp, and then again BRON/HOWARD also could have took claim to that mvp trophy so its really just they got beat by better team and they overachieved past couple yrs because of THIBS and his sick d scheme and team discipline

hopefully ROSE will use BOOZ more than he did previously and it should help BOOZ confidence

BULLS were a top seed with ROSE so its only natural to feel they have a top 3 seeded team when fully healthy because last time that happened they were no 1(with major injuries), so of course ROSE is the engine while NOAH is heart/soul and even ROSE can co star on that role same as NOAH in engine role

BULLS are legit

Why do you randomly write certain words in entirely upper case?

Goose17
08-11-2013, 09:15 AM
People have short memories.

Goose17
08-11-2013, 09:23 AM
And that is exactly the reason the Knicks are not a top two team in the east. I will give you they are the second best team in the Atlantic division.

The Knicks overachieved last season, there 3 point efficiency was off the charts. Without Novak (the best 3 point shooter they had) and the efficient Kidd I don't think they're going to be shooting like that again. Then there's the defense, Amare is another year older and will probably regress again, and they've picked up Bargnani, probably the biggest defensive liability at the 4.

I think the Knicks will be 7-8 games worse than they were last year.

smood999
08-11-2013, 10:32 AM
The Knicks overachieved last season, there 3 point efficiency was off the charts. Without Novak (the best 3 point shooter they had) and the efficient Kidd I don't think they're going to be shooting like that again. Then there's the defense, Amare is another year older and will probably regress again, and they've picked up Bargnani, probably the biggest defensive liability at the 4.

I think the Knicks will be 7-8 games worse than they were last year.

You saying they overachieved is based on what....you've never seen that team play together before last season. Kidd's efficiency is misleading...if you could do splits you'll see why. He was great from November - January....from January on, he was done...including a stretch where he missed 40 + 3's in a row.

Novak is a great shooter, but he was useless against good teams...this is something that continues to get ignored again and again.

Amare barely played...not sure how he's a factor here.

Point is, you have nothing solid to base that they overachieved on besides they basically shocked you and everyone else that thought they'd be a 7th seed last season and using that logic, I can say the same thing about the Warriors.

But think what you want...there are clearly bigger questions involving the Pacers and Nets, both of whom were 5 games worse than the Knicks last season.

When Hibbert has been how he's been his whole career and then in the playoffs played like he may be the best center in the league...doesn't that make you wonder if that was a fluke more than an 82 game sample from a team?

After seeing what happened to the Lakers last season, with better players....you're ready to just give the Nets a great record?

It all seems a little hypocritical from someone claiming the Knicks overachieved...at least you saw what they can be over an entire season...

The Knicks have improved every season since they brought Amare and Melo in..not saying they're going to be better. I think on paper they're better...but why does that give me or anyone else reason to think they're gonna be worse?

Goose17
08-11-2013, 10:38 AM
After seeing what happened to the Lakers last season, with better players....you're ready to just give the Nets a great record?


I never even mentioned the Nets.


I'm sticking with the Knicks being worse by 7 or 8 games.

smood999
08-11-2013, 10:48 AM
I never even mentioned the Nets.


I'm sticking with the Knicks being worse by 7 or 8 games.

Ok, so what will make them worse? What is this based on or is it just a feeling you have with no real basis? That's fine if it is just that, we're all entitled to that...but I'm just wondering

Goose17
08-11-2013, 10:51 AM
Ok, so what will make them worse? What is this based on or is it just a feeling you have with no real basis? That's fine if it is just that, we're all entitled to that...but I'm just wondering

It's based on the reasons from my last post.

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 11:01 AM
Think you'll agree with me, but don't loop in every fan of a fanbase based off what 1 poster says.We all love Butler over here, but very few of us think he currently is in the same stratosphere as PG. Just like I'm sure most logical Knick fans don't lump shumpert in with elite SG's as well.

I agree with you here. See we do have some common ground.

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 11:03 AM
There is alot of if's with the bulls right now. Pacers are getting better every year as with a few other teams improving.

I don't see the bulls overachieving what they have done to this point, although as a bulls fan I hope they do. But, they will be at the top of the east due to their coach and defense. So, it's not a stretch to see them at the top of the east where some are picking them.

by top of the East are you saying #1 or anywhere from 1-5?

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 11:10 AM
So last year, I guess Boston was better than OKC because they pushed Miami to 7 games. Yes, great Logic there.

Hey everyone in 2011, the 76ers were just as good as Boston because they both lost to Miami 4-1. Man I love this logic.

teams can lose and still be the better team. 2001 dbacks were not as good as the Yankees. Marlins should have never beat Detroit in the WS years ago, NY Giants won their last SB by beating better teams through the NFC playoffs. There are upsets in the NCAA tourney all the time.
I think Indiana is slightly over rated because of what they did in the playoffs last season. The are very good, but with a healthy Melo and smith, they might not even make the ECF last year.
I'm not taking anything away from what they did against Miami, but Miami was not exactly the MJ Bulls either.

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 11:21 AM
The Knicks overachieved last season, there 3 point efficiency was off the charts. Without Novak (the best 3 point shooter they had) and the efficient Kidd I don't think they're going to be shooting like that again. Then there's the defense, Amare is another year older and will probably regress again, and they've picked up Bargnani, probably the biggest defensive liability at the 4.

I think the Knicks will be 7-8 games worse than they were last year.

You look at the Knicks with one eye closed and don't even bring up what they have done this offseason.
Bargnani for Novak was a huge upgrade offensively and defensively. I agree that Bargs is not Hibbert or Noah on defense, but Novak was like putting Sheldon Cooper on defense. Bargs is a big active body, Woodson like Thibs teaches defense. This is an upgrade in every aspect of the game.

Novak and Kidd were efficient with the 3 ball because every shot they took was WIDE OPEN. Carmelo Anthony being on the court makes that happen. Artest and bargs, and hardaway and Beno, will all beenefit from wide open three's this year.

Where exactly does 7-8 games worse even come from.? We were 0-4 against the Bulls, can't be any worse there. 4-4 against the Nets and Pacers and 3-1 against the Heat. That is 7-9 against our 4 biggest EC foes. The Knicks could easily replicate that record against these teams. So where is the 7-8 more losses coming from?

Artest, A Full season of Kmart (who played 3 weeks last year) Bargs over Novak, Full season of Prigioni getting court time, Full season of Shumpert...Bounce back year from Chandler, All signs point to a BETTER defensive year from the Knicks.

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 11:25 AM
I think the Indiana Pacers are going to disappoint their fans this year. Now people are gunning for them. Lets see how they respond.

Goose17
08-11-2013, 11:54 AM
You look at the Knicks with one eye closed and don't even bring up what they have done this offseason.
Bargnani for Novak was a huge upgrade offensively and defensively. I agree that Bargs is not Hibbert or Noah on defense, but Novak was like putting Sheldon Cooper on defense. Bargs is a big active body, Woodson like Thibs teaches defense. This is an upgrade in every aspect of the game.

LOL I think you're looking at the Knicks with both eyes closed.

Bargs is NOT an upgrade over Novak. The Raptors have literally gotten better just by removing Bargnani from their team, he's that bad. He's easily the worst defender in his position and his offensive skill set is vastly overrated.

First of all Bargnani has only played 67 games in the last two seasons, how much do you expect from him? Does he still have the stamina?

Novak's TS% has been below 60% twice in his entire nine year career. Bargnani has NEVER had a TS% of 60%, closest he came was 55% in 2008.

Bargnani turns the ball over WAY more than Novak does. Novaks career TOV% is 4.4, Bargnani's career TOV% is 10.5

Novak shot 42% from deep last season, his career average is 43%. Bargs has shot over 40% from deep ONCE in his entire career, in 2008. His career 3pt% is 36%.



Bargs doesn't rebound well or pass well. He is easily the worst defender at his position and is a turnover machine. He can shoot the ball (do you really need more chuckers?) but he put up a career low FG% last season (in large part due to injury?) and he isn't anywhere near Novaks level, Novak's career TS% is almost 10% higher than Bargs.




So where is the 7-8 more losses coming from?


The West has vastly improved, you'll split the series with the Nets, if Rose is healthy Bulls will win that series.


Like I say, you overachieved last season thanks to your 3 point shooting, you've lost that and made your defense worse. Bargnani, Stat, Chandler, Melo? That's going to be hilarious to watch on the defensive end.


I'm sticking with my prediction, we can bump this at the end of the season and see what happened.

KnickaBocka.44
08-11-2013, 01:15 PM
LOL I think you're looking at the Knicks with both eyes closed.

Bargs is NOT an upgrade over Novak. The Raptors have literally gotten better just by removing Bargnani from their team, he's that bad. He's easily the worst defender in his position and his offensive skill set is vastly overrated.

First of all Bargnani has only played 67 games in the last two seasons, how much do you expect from him? Does he still have the stamina?

Novak's TS% has been below 60% twice in his entire nine year career. Bargnani has NEVER had a TS% of 60%, closest he came was 55% in 2008.

Bargnani turns the ball over WAY more than Novak does. Novaks career TOV% is 4.4, Bargnani's career TOV% is 10.5

Novak shot 42% from deep last season, his career average is 43%. Bargs has shot over 40% from deep ONCE in his entire career, in 2008. His career 3pt% is 36%.



Bargs doesn't rebound well or pass well. He is easily the worst defender at his position and is a turnover machine. He can shoot the ball (do you really need more chuckers?) but he put up a career low FG% last season (in large part due to injury?) and he isn't anywhere near Novaks level, Novak's career TS% is almost 10% higher than Bargs.




The West has vastly improved, you'll split the series with the Nets, if Rose is healthy Bulls will win that series.


Like I say, you overachieved last season thanks to your 3 point shooting, you've lost that and made your defense worse. Bargnani, Stat, Chandler, Melo? That's going to be hilarious to watch on the defensive end.


I'm sticking with my prediction, we can bump this at the end of the season and see what happened.

We split with the Nets last year and got swept by the Bulls so, if we win even 1 game against the Bulls, that would actually be an improvement. The West hasn't gotten any better, the Clippers and Warriors got better but the Nuggets and OKC got worse.

Goose17
08-11-2013, 01:18 PM
We split with the Nets last year and got swept by the Bulls so, if we win even 1 game against the Bulls, that would actually be an improvement. The West hasn't gotten any better, the Clippers and Warriors got better but the Nuggets and OKC got worse.

Forgot about that overtime game, my bad.

OKC are still better than Knicks. West is stacked.



I stand by my prediction.

KnickaBocka.44
08-11-2013, 01:26 PM
Forgot about that overtime game, my bad.

OKC are still better than Knicks. West is stacked.



I stand by my prediction.

I didn't say they weren't better than the Knicks, but that's not what you said either, you said the west was better and that's not true. The Knicks split with OKC last year, OKC got worse, no reason they can't do it again.

Rndy
08-11-2013, 01:30 PM
I didn't say they weren't better than the Knicks, but that's not what you said either, you said the west was better and that's not true. The Knicks split with OKC last year, OKC got worse, no reason they can't do it again.

I think you can make an argument the West is better. East is top heavy has been for awhile now. West has a lot of teams that may not be better then the Easts top teams but a lot more teams in contention.

I'd take the East over the West but there is nothing wrong with thinking the other way around.

KnickaBocka.44
08-11-2013, 01:32 PM
I think you can make an argument the West is better. East is top heavy has been for awhile now. West has a lot of teams that may not be better then the Easts top teams but a lot more teams in contention.

Once again, I didn't say the East was better than the West. He said the West has gotten better this year, but that isn't true.

bearadonisdna
08-11-2013, 02:27 PM
IIRC at least 2 of the 3 wins vs mia was before birdman
The Pacers lost 3 of 4 games vs NY. U can't bank on those wins coming off a series loss to them.
Nets lose 4 games to Ny out of eight. Nets make additions that arguably give them a better starting lineup than NY.

bearadonisdna
08-11-2013, 02:30 PM
Bargani is not better in every way. Novak was clearly the better shooter.

BcEuAbRsS
08-11-2013, 02:31 PM
We split with the Nets last year and got swept by the Bulls so, if we win even 1 game against the Bulls, that would actually be an improvement. The West hasn't gotten any better, the Clippers and Warriors got better but the Nuggets and OKC got worse.

Overrated for sure.

bearadonisdna
08-11-2013, 03:02 PM
Overrated for sure.
wat does this post even mean?

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 05:40 PM
LOL I think you're looking at the Knicks with both eyes closed.

Bargs is NOT an upgrade over Novak. The Raptors have literally gotten better just by removing Bargnani from their team, he's that bad. He's easily the worst defender in his position and his offensive skill set is vastly overrated.


You are telling me that Steve Novak is a better player than Bargnani? LOL

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 05:43 PM
Forgot about that overtime game, my bad.

OKC are still better than Knicks. West is stacked.



I stand by my prediction.

I'm happy you stand by your opinion even though you have no statistical or factual basis behind it.

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 05:47 PM
IIRC at least 2 of the 3 wins vs mia was before birdman
The Pacers lost 3 of 4 games vs NY. U can't bank on those wins coming off a series loss to them.
Nets lose 4 games to Ny out of eight. Nets make additions that arguably give them a better starting lineup than NY.

What are you smoking? Pacers and Knicks SPLIT 4 games. No one won that series. Nets and Knicks played 4 Games not 8 against each other. They also split 2-2.
Knicks crushed Miami twice, First two wins had no Shumpert or Amare, one win also had No Melo. Are you telling me BIRDMAN is why they didn't win? Seriously?

Might want to actually see the Nets play before giving them anything.

Captain Moroni
08-11-2013, 05:49 PM
Bargani is not better in every way. Novak was clearly the better shooter.

Novak was clearly the better 3 point shooter. Big difference. His entire role was to stay in the corner and shoot open three's. I could hit 35% if left wide open.
Barg's actually has the ability to CREATE his own shot. Novak does not Create his own anything.

LegendsNvrDie23
08-11-2013, 06:04 PM
So we all agree that the Bulls are not overrated and will most likely be dethroning the Heat?

smiddy012
08-11-2013, 06:49 PM
Regular season matchups don't matter...

Pierzynski4Prez
08-11-2013, 07:13 PM
Novak was clearly the better 3 point shooter. Big difference. His entire role was to stay in the corner and shoot open three's. I could hit 35% if left wide open.
Barg's actually has the ability to CREATE his own shot. Novak does not Create his own anything.

So player A stands in a corner making a decent % of his shots (one of the best in league from 3).

Player B has the ability to drive and create his own shot, but shoots at a much lower %.

Because player B can put the ball on the floor, he is an upgrade? Even if he is the worse shooter? Worse defender. Does putting the ball on the floor = points on the scoreboard?

east fb knicks
08-11-2013, 08:17 PM
[QUOTE=Pierzynski4Prez;26868539]So player A stands in a corner making a decent % of his shots (one of the best in league from 3).

Player B has the ability to drive and create his own shot, but shoots at a much lower %.

Because player B can put the ball on the floor, he is an upgrade? Even if he is the worse shooter? Worse defender. Does putting the ball on the floor = points on the scoreboard?[QUOTE]

lmao its hard to shoot good percentages when you are the number one option on a crappy team espeacially when you are a perimeter not to mention novak can't play defense for his life i'm not saying bargs is much better but atleast he doesn't get overpowered at his position and lets not even bring up rebounding even though bargs is one of the worst in the league he looks like rodman compared to novak everybody keeps saying how it was a bad trade but I would have given up an extra first to get rid of novaks horrible contract

east fb knicks
08-11-2013, 08:33 PM
The Knicks overachieved last season, there 3 point efficiency was off the charts. Without Novak (the best 3 point shooter they had) and the efficient Kidd I don't think they're going to be shooting like that again. Then there's the defense, Amare is another year older and will probably regress again, and they've picked up Bargnani, probably the biggest defensive liability at the 4.

I think the Knicks will be 7-8 games worse than they were last year.

first off novak barely played last year bargs is a liability at the 5 not 4 but i'll give it to you he sucks on d lmao but that's why we have guys like kmart and chandler to cover up his deficiencies and we also have mwp and melo to play the 4 if amare doesn't come out strong early on no worries we are extremely deep at the 4 and the efficient kidd sucked after the first half of the year lmao we actually played our best ball with prigs playing over kidd and your great kidd had an all time low in the playoffs he broke a record for most minutes played with out making a shot i'm sure we'll miss him yall need to get your facts straight before you guys post because some of this stuff I'm reading is :censored: :facepalm:

east fb knicks
08-11-2013, 08:44 PM
Now that is overrating a team. The Knicks are not all that good and Beno does not boost them above the Heat, Nets, Pacers, or Bulls.


And that is exactly the reason the Knicks are not a top two team in the east. I will give you they are the second best team in the Atlantic division.

ummmmmm yeah lets not even bring ups the nets :oldguy: nuff said

now we were the 2nd seed last year and we have kept our core intact and upgraded players like novak and camby our only glaring weakness was pg play i'm pretty sure a lot of you have never heard of beno but check his stats he's a good player but that's not the point the point is he fits our team better than any other back up pg we could have got this year he is a good shooter playmaker a very underrated player but not for long playing on the big stage will show the world what he can do I've actually been a fan of his since I had him on my fantasy team back when he played with the kings

boXerrumble
08-12-2013, 01:23 PM
with the knicks getting beno it puts them as 2nd best in the east imo

Wait... So...

This Bulls PG depth of:

(75%, factoring rust) Derrick Rose
Kirk Hinrich
Marquis Teague

vs.

Knicks PG depth of

Raymond Felton
Pablo Prigioni
Beno Udrih

...

How on earth does Udrih make them the 2nd best team in the East?

effen5
08-12-2013, 05:56 PM
Wait... So...

This Bulls PG depth of:

(75%, factoring rust) Derrick Rose
Kirk Hinrich
Marquis Teague

vs.

Knicks PG depth of

Raymond Felton
Pablo Prigioni
Beno Udrih

...

How on earth does Udrih make them the 2nd best team in the East?

Because he plays for the Knicks DUH :facepalm: :laugh:

Rndy
08-12-2013, 06:34 PM
[QUOTE=Pierzynski4Prez;26868539]So player A stands in a corner making a decent % of his shots (one of the best in league from 3).

Player B has the ability to drive and create his own shot, but shoots at a much lower %.

Because player B can put the ball on the floor, he is an upgrade? Even if he is the worse shooter? Worse defender. Does putting the ball on the floor = points on the scoreboard?[QUOTE]

lmao its hard to shoot good percentages when you are the number one option on a crappy team espeacially when you are a perimeter not to mention novak can't play defense for his life i'm not saying bargs is much better but atleast he doesn't get overpowered at his position and lets not even bring up rebounding even though bargs is one of the worst in the league he looks like rodman compared to novak everybody keeps saying how it was a bad trade but I would have given up an extra first to get rid of novaks horrible contract

It's possible Bargs becomes efficient again his years of being a 22% USG player he was very efficient. But he was also 23 and 24 years old. and this was 4 years ago. It will be interesting to see I just never thought shooting was the Knicks issue it continues to be defense and rebounding and they keep ignoring it which is great for Chicago, Miami, and Nets.

effen5
08-13-2013, 11:29 AM
[QUOTE=east fb knicks;26868841][QUOTE=Pierzynski4Prez;26868539]So player A stands in a corner making a decent % of his shots (one of the best in league from 3).

Player B has the ability to drive and create his own shot, but shoots at a much lower %.

Because player B can put the ball on the floor, he is an upgrade? Even if he is the worse shooter? Worse defender. Does putting the ball on the floor = points on the scoreboard?

It's possible Bargs becomes efficient again his years of being a 22% USG player he was very efficient. But he was also 23 and 24 years old. and this was 4 years ago. It will be interesting to see I just never thought shooting was the Knicks issue it continues to be defense and rebounding and they keep ignoring it which is great for Chicago, Miami, and Nets.

I agree.

Captain Moroni
08-13-2013, 05:35 PM
So player A stands in a corner making a decent % of his shots (one of the best in league from 3).

Player B has the ability to drive and create his own shot, but shoots at a much lower %.

Because player B can put the ball on the floor, he is an upgrade? Even if he is the worse shooter? Worse defender. Does putting the ball on the floor = points on the scoreboard?

What exactly did you think about Steve Novak before he was traded? Should we go through the PSD history of your posts to see how many times you even remotely called Steve Novak a great player?

Come on, it's Steve Novak we are talking about. Even Knick fans didn't know who he was whn we signed him 2 years ago.

Captain Moroni
08-13-2013, 05:38 PM
Bulls fans are just assuming that Jimmy Buckets can take over the SG role without a hitch, It wll be interesting to see how he pans out.

east fb knicks
08-13-2013, 06:09 PM
Wait... So...

This Bulls PG depth of:

(75%, factoring rust) Derrick Rose
Kirk Hinrich
Marquis Teague

vs.

Knicks PG depth of

Raymond Felton
Pablo Prigioni
Beno Udrih

...

How on earth does Udrih make them the 2nd best team in the East?

:facepalm: because i said TEAM DEPTH not PG DEPTH obviously the bulls have the better pg situation because of rose but their bench sux our bench was already better than yours before the beno signing so now our bench looks like this

beno
jr
mwp
stat
kmart

now tell me that isn't a sick bench our depth right now is ridiculous that's why i feel like we are 2nd best in the east

Pierzynski4Prez
08-13-2013, 09:14 PM
What exactly did you think about Steve Novak before he was traded? Should we go through the PSD history of your posts to see how many times you even remotely called Steve Novak a great player?

Come on, it's Steve Novak we are talking about. Even Knick fans didn't know who he was whn we signed him 2 years ago.

Doesn't matter what I thought about him 2 years ago. I didn't think much of anything of Bargnani either. Novak has a certain role, being a sharpshooter, which he's very good at and the Knicks relied upon a lot last year, as it was their strength.

What is Bargnani's role? To hopefully shoot above 40% this year? Would be an improvement. He doesn't improve the defense in your front court. He weakens the rebounding of your front court when on the floor. What does he do well at besides shoot FT's? Sure, he helps with spacing, but that only helps so much now that you've lost your best deep threat and you don't really have an offensive minded center.

Also, what's with a lot of these posters not knowing how to properly quote someone? Looking above its a train wreck in some of these posts.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-13-2013, 09:16 PM
Bulls fans are just assuming that Jimmy Buckets can take over the SG role without a hitch, It wll be interesting to see how he pans out.

A decent number of us are hoping it's only for this year, and then he'll move back to SF when Deng is gone next summer. He's much more suited at the 3 spot than the 2. Obviously if he doesn't play up to expectations though this year, the Bulls will be more inclined to keep Deng after next season. I mean if he can keep his shooting up and develop a 3pt shot, we'd love him to stay at the 2 as he would be one of the top defenders at the position, along with young and under team control, but that fully depends on how he plays in the SG spot next to Rose.

effen5
08-13-2013, 09:27 PM
Bulls fans are just assuming that Jimmy Buckets can take over the SG role without a hitch, It wll be interesting to see how he pans out.

You do realize our SG last year was Rip right?

chitownbulls
08-13-2013, 09:59 PM
:facepalm: because i said TEAM DEPTH not PG DEPTH obviously the bulls have the better pg situation because of rose but their bench sux our bench was already better than yours before the beno signing so now our bench looks like this

beno
jr
mwp
stat
kmart

now tell me that isn't a sick bench our depth right now is ridiculous that's why i feel like we are 2nd best in the east

That's what people said last year and we had enough depth to get an injury depleted team 45 wins and into the 2nd round of the playoffs.

That's also what people said going into 2010-11, and we ended up creating the bench mob.

Just because our bench doesn't have flashy names doesn't mean it is not going to produce, and just because your bench has some washed up old all stars doesn't mean it will be better than ours..

You think people would've learned that under Thibs our bench always produces good numbers and has great defense despite who plays on it :shrug:

effen5
08-13-2013, 10:54 PM
That's what people said last year and we had enough depth to get an injury depleted team 45 wins and into the 2nd round of the playoffs.

That's also what people said going into 2010-11, and we ended up creating the bench mob.

Just because our bench doesn't have flashy names doesn't mean it is not going to produce, and just because your bench has some washed up old all stars doesn't mean it will be better than ours..

You think people would've learned that under Thibs our bench always produces good numbers and has great defense despite who plays on it :shrug:

This is so true.

boXerrumble
08-14-2013, 08:57 AM
:facepalm: because i said TEAM DEPTH not PG DEPTH obviously the bulls have the better pg situation because of rose but their bench sux our bench was already better than yours before the beno signing so now our bench looks like this

beno
jr
mwp
stat
kmart

now tell me that isn't a sick bench our depth right now is ridiculous that's why i feel like we are 2nd best in the east

I remember when the Bulls had the original "bench mob", that other fans would say Depth doesn't matter in the playoffs when rotations shrink.

I also remember when last year everyone said the Bulls bench sucked. That bench beat the Nets in the playoffs.

Funny seeing a Knicks fan talk about depth.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 10:45 AM
Doesn't matter what I thought about him 2 years ago. I didn't think much of anything of Bargnani either. Novak has a certain role, being a sharpshooter, which he's very good at and the Knicks relied upon a lot last year, as it was their strength.

What is Bargnani's role? .

Actually it does. If you understood how to debate without being so un-accepting of any other point of view it would be a lot more enjoyable for everyone.

I have a strong feeling that you regularly criticized the Knicks for being a 3 point shooting team. I bet that when the Bulls swept them last year you mentioned that a team so reliant on the 3 ball can't win many games. But now all of the sudden Steve freaking Novak is your point of reference to the Knicks demise.

Maybe BECAUSE of the knicks offensive approach, Novak thrived. Maybe the Knicks created Novak. Now is it possible surrounded by a completely different talent base the Knicks can create the new Bargnani?

we shall see.

One thing I do know is that Bargnani's role won't be the same as it was in Canada.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 10:48 AM
A decent number of us are hoping it's only for this year, and then he'll move back to SF when Deng is gone next summer. He's much more suited at the 3 spot than the 2. Obviously if he doesn't play up to expectations though this year, the Bulls will be more inclined to keep Deng after next season. I mean if he can keep his shooting up and develop a 3pt shot, we'd love him to stay at the 2 as he would be one of the top defenders at the position, along with young and under team control, but that fully depends on how he plays in the SG spot next to Rose.

Jimmy does seem more suited for the 3 but if he can handle the 2 that is a HUGE boon for the Bulls.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 10:51 AM
The Bulls depth is fine during the regular season. Miami is the mountain we all must climb.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 10:54 AM
I remember when the Bulls had the original "bench mob", that other fans would say Depth doesn't matter in the playoffs when rotations shrink.

I also remember when last year everyone said the Bulls bench sucked. That bench beat the Nets in the playoffs.

Funny seeing a Knicks fan talk about depth.

Actually Depth might just be the Knicks strongest suit this year. NY is very deep on the bench and actually younger than last year. Injuries happen to everyone. It's how you overcome those injuries that matter.
Thibs did a great job last year without Rose.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 11:07 AM
Indiana really stepped it up last year in the playoffs. I'm interested to see if they are as good as people are making them out to be.

Can Granger compliment George? or will this be another Melo/Amare situation?

Can Hibbert play at the level he reached in the playoffs? Going to be interesting to see.

Stephenson will probably lose minutes with Granger back, and what role will Copeland have?

bearadonisdna
08-14-2013, 06:19 PM
Bulls fans are just assuming that Jimmy Buckets can take over the SG role without a hitch, It wll be interesting to see how he pans out.

They aren't just assuming. Jimmy WON the job over a decent sg stable of marco and rip. Maybe even kirk if nate was capable of snaring a starting spot.
So they kinda know some of wat they got. Also they got to see him at sg in the first 3 wins in the first round.

Cool007
08-14-2013, 08:20 PM
The Bulls depth is fine during the regular season. Miami is the mountain we all must climb.

Partly disagree. For Bulls, their biggest mountain is their health. If they are healthy, I think they can beat any team assuming D-Rose is healthy and close to how he was in MVP or early in the season in 2012.

Bulls just never got the fair chance against Miami after that 2011 series, I hope this time Bulls are healthy in the playoffs and face Heat in any round.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 08:57 PM
Partly disagree. For Bulls, their biggest mountain is their health. If they are healthy, I think they can beat any team assuming D-Rose is healthy and close to how he was in MVP or early in the season in 2012.

Bulls just never got the fair chance against Miami after that 2011 series, I hope this time Bulls are healthy in the playoffs and face Heat in any round.

but you wouldn't be bothered if the Heat were eliminated before a showdown.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 09:00 PM
Partly disagree. For Bulls, their biggest mountain is their health. If they are healthy, I think they can beat any team assuming D-Rose is healthy and close to how he was in MVP or early in the season in 2012.

Bulls just never got the fair chance against Miami after that 2011 series, I hope this time Bulls are healthy in the playoffs and face Heat in any round.

I don't see the Bulls as presently built beating Miami in a seven game series. Defense is great but you have to score to beat the heat. Chicago just does not have the weapons. You are not going t beat Miami when your number one option is your point guard.

Captain Moroni
08-14-2013, 09:01 PM
indiana has the scoring and defensive framework to play better against Miami than the Bulls do. New York is a better matchup than chicago.

BIG worm
08-14-2013, 09:23 PM
indiana has the scoring and defensive framework to play better against Miami than the Bulls do. New York is a better matchup than chicago.
For real? Knicks are a better match up then the Bulls? You know the Bulls are clearly a better team then the Knicks right. Do you think the Heat would rather play the Bulls then the Knicks?

bearadonisdna
08-14-2013, 09:29 PM
You are not going t beat Miami when your number one option is your point guard.

Why not? That's seems like an arbitrary statement. As long as the other options are adequate.

Cool007
08-14-2013, 09:32 PM
I don't see the Bulls as presently built beating Miami in a seven game series. Defense is great but you have to score to beat the heat. Chicago just does not have the weapons. You are not going t beat Miami when your number one option is your point guard.

That's just bs. If Rose has improved his 3pt shot then I don't see how LeBron and Heat can stop Rose now. 2 years ago, that Rose was banged up, was forcing way too much as others also sucked that series. Not to mention Thibs was a rookie coach back then.

IMO, the whole Bulls team learned their lesson. They know what to expect and are better prepared now to face the Heat than ever. Their biggest obstable will be their health. In my mind, if Bulls are healthy they can beat any team in the NBA.

lkingratedr
08-14-2013, 11:36 PM
Time out are people forgetting that amare was looking pretty freaking good in the last couple of games he played before they shut him down cutting to the basket shooting and dunking please lets not act like amare has absolutely no basketball skills left ...and for your information amare didn't get injured again he got the debris cleared out his knee so he can continue to play I had a similar process done it keeps u out for acouple weeks but then u back to yourself

boXerrumble
08-15-2013, 12:25 AM
I don't see the Bulls as presently built beating Miami in a seven game series. Defense is great but you have to score to beat the heat. Chicago just does not have the weapons. You are not going t beat Miami when your number one option is your point guard.

The Spurs #1 option was Tony Parker. They were a missed Ray Allen 3 away from beating the Heat in the Finals.


indiana has the scoring and defensive framework to play better against Miami than the Bulls do. New York is a better matchup than chicago.

LOL.

D1JM
08-15-2013, 01:35 AM
indiana has the scoring and defensive framework to play better against Miami than the Bulls do. New York is a better matchup than chicago.

wtf

SteBO
08-15-2013, 10:19 AM
indiana has the scoring and defensive framework to play better against Miami than the Bulls do. New York is a better matchup than chicago.
No way dude. Outside of PG24, they have nothing consistent offensively on the perimeter.....scoring is going to be an issue for them again.

Captain Moroni
08-15-2013, 10:35 AM
For real? Knicks are a better match up then the Bulls? You know the Bulls are clearly a better team then the Knicks right. Do you think the Heat would rather play the Bulls then the Knicks?

I wouldnt just jump to conclusions on that Knicks play Miai pretty well. The matchups are pretty solid.

Captain Moroni
08-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Why not? That's seems like an arbitrary statement. As long as the other options are adequate.

Because of the defense Miami plays.
When Jeremy Lin was shocking the world with Linsanity 2 years ago, he played against the heat. He could barely get the ball past half court.
Now obviously Rose is the better player, but Miami attacks the QB better than any team in the league.

Its the reason why the bulls have such a tough time against them.
Now Rose has to prove he is heathy enough and mentally strong enough to come back at even close to the same level.

Captain Moroni
08-15-2013, 10:42 AM
IMO, the whole Bulls team learned their lesson. They know what to expect and are better prepared now to face the Heat than ever. Their biggest obstable will be their health. In my mind, if Bulls are healthy they can beat any team in the NBA.

If BKN, NYK, or INDY stat healthy they can also beat any team in the NBA. So what is the point here?

Captain Moroni
08-15-2013, 10:43 AM
Time out are people forgetting that amare was looking pretty freaking good in the last couple of games he played before they shut him down cutting to the basket shooting and dunking please lets not act like amare has absolutely no basketball skills left ...and for your information amare didn't get injured again he got the debris cleared out his knee so he can continue to play I had a similar process done it keeps u out for acouple weeks but then u back to yourself

Heaven forbid anyone even suggest Amare can actually still be a factor. This guy if healthy just like rose if healthy can be a big factor in the playoffs.

Captain Moroni
08-15-2013, 10:45 AM
The Spurs #1 option was Tony Parker. They were a missed Ray Allen 3 away from beating the Heat in the Finals.
.

The spurs clearly have better offensive weapons then the Bulls do. The bulls do have the better team defense.

Pacerlive
08-15-2013, 01:43 PM
No way dude. Outside of PG24, they have nothing consistent offensively on the perimeter.....scoring is going to be an issue for them again.
If Granger is healthy then he is consistent from the perimeter and this is another area where Ghill has made progress in. With a healthy Granger (11-12 season) we were 10th in the league in scoring btw.

Captain Moroni
08-15-2013, 03:06 PM
The wild card for indy is Stephenson. If he continues what he showed in the playoffs, the Pacers are legitimate title contenders.
Picking up Scola was a pretty gutsy move. They are very very big at times.

Captain Moroni
08-15-2013, 03:07 PM
wtf

Way true fact?

Pacerlive
08-15-2013, 04:41 PM
The wild card for indy is Stephenson. If he continues what he showed in the playoffs, the Pacers are legitimate title contenders.
Picking up Scola was a pretty gutsy move. They are very very big at times.

I am not sure what you mean by "what he showed in the playoffs"? Lance is a bad matchup for the Knicks and he was that way during the regular season as well since they don't have 2 good wing defenders and they liked to go small. Maybe that changes next season but Lance didn't have a great Heat series. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either.

If you are not going to guard him well he will leak out on transition and exploit sloppy team defense in addition to his transition game. I don't expect that to change next season and having him come off the bench for PG or DG will be challenge to a lot of team and good for the second unit.

effen5
08-15-2013, 05:32 PM
Because of the defense Miami plays.
When Jeremy Lin was shocking the world with Linsanity 2 years ago, he played against the heat. He could barely get the ball past half court.
Now obviously Rose is the better player, but Miami attacks the QB better than any team in the league.

Its the reason why the bulls have such a tough time against them.
Now Rose has to prove he is heathy enough and mentally strong enough to come back at even close to the same level.

First, outside of last year, EVERY GAME in the playoffs between the Bulls and Miami have been very close. The reason the Bulls had such a difficult time was a) chemistry (2010 with Joa/Boozer missing half the seasons at different times, 2011 with Rose taking majority of the load all year) b) health c) consistency from Boozer, and the Bulls have improved in all three aspects this year.