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jp611
08-05-2013, 12:47 AM
Most of the Bulls fans here have been fair and stayed away from the potshots. I ll say the same for the knicks fan besides a few bad apples.

Not even taking a shot, a Knick fan would agree with me.

They both came in the same free agency and Boozer cost 25 million and one year less. It could be much worse.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 12:49 AM
Not even taking a shot, a Knick fan would agree with me.

They both came in the same free agency and Boozer cost 25 million and one year less. It could be much worse.

Yeah and u werent insulting like the Op did, who i admit became less insulting to not insulting at all as the thread progressed.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 12:52 AM
I ranked the Knicks 3rd behind the Heat and Pacers.

so you were wrong?

east fb knicks
08-05-2013, 12:54 AM
Remember when we were talking about the Bulls and you changed the topic?

Do you remember when you facepalmed me for saying Noah is better than Hibbert? And then I brought out statistics that showed you and you ignored it?

how did I change the subject by saying a team in your own division has a center better than yours hibbert produced in the playoffs when it mattered most my point is the pacers have a better team west is light years ahead of boozer and George is better than deng obviously the bulls are better at point but the pacers bench is way better then your bench also

effen5
08-05-2013, 12:54 AM
so you were wrong?

Uh...Yeah?

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 12:56 AM
This is from the OP:
'Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously?'

Thats pretty insulting.

not insulting at all. Bulls fans were all over Boozer and his contract Just as Knick fans were all over Amare and his deal. Also you pulled one comment out of context on a broad scale post.

jp611
08-05-2013, 12:57 AM
how did I change the subject by saying a team in your own division has a center better than yours hibbert produced in the playoffs when it mattered most my point is the pacers have a better team west is light years ahead of boozer and George is better than deng obviously the bulls are better at point but the pacers bench is way better then your bench also

Cute opinions.

6 game sample sizes > Full seasons.

Great logic.

jp611
08-05-2013, 12:59 AM
not insulting at all. Bulls fans were all over Boozer and his contract Just as Knick fans were all over Amare and his deal. Also you pulled one comment out of context on a broad scale post.

Any Bulls fan all over Boozer about his contract is a complete moron.

Boozer is hardly overpaid, look around the league at PFs who produce like him around his age.

5/75 is a pretty fair deal for Carlos Boozer. A lot of Chicago fans are idiots.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 01:00 AM
Uh...Yeah?

So not so hard to stretch that you could easily be wrong this offseason as well. We all can.

Everytime you mention any other team besides Miami, you insult them or backhandedly insult them.

The Knicks are a very good team. Not bad, awful, or garbage. Yet I have not read one thing you have posted in this thread (Unless I missed something) that gives that particular team any credit at all for being good. You treat them as if they have no chance at beating Chicago at all. Like it is impossible to even mention those two teams in the same sentence.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 01:02 AM
Any Bulls fan all over Boozer about his contract is a complete moron.

Boozer is hardly overpaid, look around the league at PFs who produce like him around his age.

5/75 is a pretty fair deal for Carlos Boozer. A lot of Chicago fans are idiots.

Fair.

effen5
08-05-2013, 01:02 AM
So not so hard to stretch that you could easily be wrong this offseason as well. We all can.

Everytime you mention any other team besides Miami, you insult them or backhandedly insult them.

The Knicks are a very good team. Not bad, awful, or garbage. Yet I have not read one thing you have posted in this thread (Unless I missed something) that gives that particular team any credit at all for being good. You treat them as if they have no chance at beating Chicago at all. Like it is impossible to even mention those two teams in the same sentence.

Because I don't see the Knicks or Nets as a very good team at all. It's not suppose to be an insult, its just how I feel about them. They are very average in my opinion.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 01:03 AM
Bulls are a great team. So are the Knicks. So are the Pacers. And on paper So are the Nets.

I respect them all.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 01:05 AM
Because I don't see the Knicks or Nets as a very good team at all. It's not suppose to be an insult, its just how I feel about them. They are very average in my opinion.

See, another backhanded insult.
You ignore the facts and just insult very good teams.
The second someone questions your team you go teenage girl jealous crazy.

effen5
08-05-2013, 01:08 AM
See, another backhanded insult.
You ignore the facts and just insult very good teams.
The second someone questions your team you go teenage girl jealous crazy.

Stop being a hypocrite....you're doing the same thing when I question the Knicks or the Nets...you're doing it right now.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 01:09 AM
how did I change the subject by saying a team in your own division has a center better than yours hibbert produced in the playoffs when it mattered most my point is the pacers have a better team west is light years ahead of boozer and George is better than deng obviously the bulls are better at point but the pacers bench is way better then your bench also

Fair enough bro. Now do the same thing u just did for the bulls but replace them with UR Knicks. See if u like ur answer.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 01:10 AM
Knicks win 54 games. Lose oldtimers Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, Rasheed Wallace, Jason Kidd.
Copeland and Novak, Players you have insulted over and over again are replaced by Ron Artest and Bargnani.
Kmart who played 3 weeks with us is signed for the year.
Great draft in gettiing THJ, and you see this team as mediocre?
An opinion based on nothing at all.

So basically your no factual opinion clearly biased means nothing.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 01:10 AM
Stop being a hypocrite....you're doing the same thing when I question the Knicks or the Nets...you're doing it right now.

explain

effen5
08-05-2013, 01:13 AM
explain

You see the Bulls as overrated...I tell you they are not.

I tell you both the Knicks and Nets are overrated and then you go ahead and call me a little school girl for not giving your team not enough respect.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 01:14 AM
The Bulls are overrated from the standpoint that they lack athleticism and their wing players at least offensively cant create for themselves and that has been their achilles for the past 3 seasons and it still looks like they have yet to address that problem. They are going to beat the crap out of other teams physically still but they still have the same weaknesses while I think other teams have improved dramatically ie Miami, Brooklyn and Indiana. Not to mention Eastern Conference coaches figured out when you force Carlos Boozer to step out and defend he kills the Bulls.

effen5
08-05-2013, 01:18 AM
Knicks win 54 games. Lose oldtimers Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, Rasheed Wallace, Jason Kidd.
Copeland and Novak, Players you have insulted over and over again are replaced by Ron Artest and Bargnani.
Kmart who played 3 weeks with us is signed for the year.
Great draft in gettiing THJ, and you see this team as mediocre?
An opinion based on nothing at all.

So basically your no factual opinion clearly biased means nothing.

Being factual and being opinionated are two different things. You are being biased. And yes, I see that team as being mediocre, and I don't see you guys winning more than 50 games this year. JR Smith had a fantastic season which I don't see him replicating next year.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 01:18 AM
The Bulls are overrated from the standpoint that they lack athleticism and their wing players at least offensively cant create for themselves and that has been their achilles for the past 3 seasons and it still looks like they have yet to address that problem. They are going to beat the crap out of other teams physically still but they still have the same weaknesses while I think other teams have improved dramatically ie Miami, Brooklyn and Indiana. Not to mention Eastern Conference coaches figured out when you force Carlos Boozer to step out and defend he kills the Bulls.

THat has ONLY proved to be their achilles heel in one series vs Miami. Only vs Miami. That perceived weakness has not been a weakness vs other teams.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 01:32 AM
THat has ONLY proved to be their achilles heel in one series vs Miami. Only vs Miami. That perceived weakness has not been a weakness vs other teams.

Thats because they've ONLY played Miami since Indiana and Brooklyn have heavily upgraded their rosters. And it's not "perceived" at all it's a reality. Bulls fans are the first ones to admit the lack of offense they get from their wing players is their biggest weakness. It's why every past trade deadline they've been salivating over the likes of JR Smith, Monta Ellis and OJ Mayo.

effen5
08-05-2013, 01:40 AM
Thats because they've ONLY played Miami since Indiana and Brooklyn have heavily upgraded their rosters. And it's not "perceived" at all it's a reality. Bulls fans are the first ones to admit the lack of offense they get from their wing players is their biggest weakness. It's why every past trade deadline they've been salivating over the likes of JR Smith, Monta Ellis and OJ Mayo.

:laugh:

Yes Bulls in the past had been looking for a 2 guard, but I can guarantee it wasn't JR Smith (who was traded to the Bulls at one point) and it definitely wasn't Ellis.

And trust me, we are definitely happy with Jimmy Butler right now.

HOZ THE KNICK
08-05-2013, 01:54 AM
it's safe to say the eastern conference is back.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 02:28 AM
:laugh:

Yes Bulls in the past had been looking for a 2 guard, but I can guarantee it wasn't JR Smith (who was traded to the Bulls at one point) and it definitely wasn't Ellis.

And trust me, we are definitely happy with Jimmy Butler right now.

Just google the threads dude. There are tons of posts in the Bulls forum clamoring for those 3 guys. Yes I lurk the Bulls forum from time to time.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 02:37 AM
Untilll Bulls can prove to me they are legit I can not have them in the top of the EAST.
Ive lost a ton of respect from the bulls for many reasons
1. They break up a 60+ win team because the owner is cheap
2. Derrick Rose is a franchise player getting paid and is fully healthy for 4 months and doesnt play against the Heat.
3. Thibs is a psycho who wanted his nearly dead sick player Deng to play when he had an infection and said it was "flu like"
4. Their players are hard to root for as they are always screaming after every bucket, I guess that is the new era of things because late 90s early 2000s you get a flagerant foul for that stupid stuff.

Sorry but adding Mike Dunleavy + Rose while losing Nate and Marco to a barely 2nd round team while Pacers,Heat,Nets got better doesnt impress me one bit. Talk to me when Bulls and Thibs stop caring souly about regular season meaningless wins and start taking the post season seriously. Cause by that team all the players are either injured/have no role or are dead tired from playing 45 minutes in a regular season game against the Hawks.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 02:44 AM
Untilll Bulls can prove to me they are legit I can not have them in the top of the EAST.
Ive lost a ton of respect from the bulls for many reasons
1. They break up a 60+ win team because the owner is cheap
2. Derrick Rose is a franchise player getting paid and is fully healthy for 4 months and doesnt play against the Heat.
3. Thibs is a psycho who wanted his nearly dead sick player Deng to play when he had an infection and said it was "flu like"
4. Their players are hard to root for as they are always screaming after every bucket, I guess that is the new era of things because late 90s early 2000s you get a flagerant foul for that stupid stuff.

Sorry but adding Mike Dunleavy + Rose while losing Nate and Marco to a barely 2nd round team while Pacers,Heat,Nets got better doesnt impress me one bit. Talk to me when Bulls and Thibs stop caring souly about regular season meaningless wins and start taking the post season seriously. Cause by that team all the players are either injured/have no role or are dead tired from playing 45 minutes in a regular season game against the Hawks.

You are saying Nate and marco is the better combination between Dunleavy and Derrick Rose?

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 02:46 AM
You are saying Nate and marco is the better combination between Dunleavy and Derrick Rose?

I like Marco much better than Dunleavy but I was saying adding those 2 to this team and losing those 2 isnt going to make Chicago much better. Pacers made significant upgrades as did Nets. Heat are the champs. Knicks made moves. Bulls are keeping this same core together that has no realistic chance at winning the gold trophy.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 02:57 AM
I like Marco much better than Dunleavy but I was saying adding those 2 to this team and losing those 2 isnt going to make Chicago much better. Pacers made significant upgrades as did Nets. Heat are the champs. Knicks made moves. Bulls are keeping this same core together that has no realistic chance at winning the gold trophy.


.

Ur like for Marco over Dunleavy is your personal opinion.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 03:29 AM
edit:
The Bulls are still active in FA.

Ur like for Marco over Dunleavy is your personal opinion.
Marco has proven he is tough enough to play in Thibs system and perform big in playoff basketball. Dunleavy hasn't shown anything.

ramsizzle
08-05-2013, 03:35 AM
Marco has proven he is tough enough to play in Thibs system and perform big in playoff basketball. Dunleavy hasn't shown anything.
Your nets got dogged by a depleted bulls roster. Add rosť... It MORE than negates the nets recent aquisitions. The bulls are the second best team in the east by a large margin.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 03:43 AM
Your nets got dogged by a depleted bulls roster. Add rosť... It MORE than negates the nets recent aquisitions. The bulls are the second best team in the east by a large margin.

My Nets were depleted themselves, got rid of a horrible coach then added 2 allstars to their roster, another former allstar to the BENCH and a 6th man of the year to their bench. Good luck with negating anything with Rose coming back off a ripped up knee.

jp611
08-05-2013, 03:50 AM
Marco has proven he is tough enough to play in Thibs system and perform big in playoff basketball. Dunleavy hasn't shown anything.

That's cute

Let's take a look at their numbers from just last season.

Mike Dunleavy TS% - .577
Marco Belinelli TS% - .515

Mike Dunleavy eFG% - .545
Marco Belinelli eFG% - .460

We need an efficient scorer. Mike Dunleavy is that. Marco Belinelli is not.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 03:53 AM
My Nets were depleted themselves, got rid of a horrible coach then added 2 allstars to their roster, another former allstar to the BENCH and a 6th man of the year to their bench. Good luck with negating anything with Rose coming back off a ripped up knee.

1 allstar.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 04:00 AM
1 allstar.

Paul Pierce? Hello and I guess AK-47 is a scrub.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 04:04 AM
That's cute

Let's take a look at their numbers from just last season.

Mike Dunleavy TS% - .577
Marco Belinelli TS% - .515

Mike Dunleavy eFG% - .545
Marco Belinelli eFG% - .460

We need an efficient scorer. Mike Dunleavy is that. Marco Belinelli is not.

The thing about Dunleavy is that he wont be as heavily relied on as the Nets acquisitions.

jp611
08-05-2013, 04:12 AM
People seem to be scared of facts around here.

Throw some out, and they disappear.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 04:17 AM
The thing about Dunleavy is that he wont be as heavily relied on as the Nets acquisitions.

He shouldn't be. He has been a career scrub Nets 2 top guys were top-25 and top-40 players in the NBA respectively last season.

jp611
08-05-2013, 04:19 AM
He shouldn't be. He has been a career scrub Nets 2 top guys were top-25 and top-40 players in the NBA respectively last season.

Career scrub :laugh2:

This is good.

But Marco Belinelli is good and better than him?

Good logic.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 04:22 AM
He shouldn't be. He has been a career scrub Nets 2 top guys were top-25 and top-40 players in the NBA respectively last season.

And for all u know u could have a scrub coach.

FOXHOUND
08-05-2013, 04:26 AM
That's cute

Let's take a look at their numbers from just last season.

Mike Dunleavy TS% - .577
Marco Belinelli TS% - .515

Mike Dunleavy eFG% - .545
Marco Belinelli eFG% - .460

We need an efficient scorer. Mike Dunleavy is that. Marco Belinelli is not.

While Dunleavy was more efficient last year a problem is that he is a SF, a position that is already too cluttered on the Bulls between Deng and the emerging Butler. Butler will be forced to play a lot more SG this year than he probably should. Paul George had his growth stunted from having to play SG instead of SF because of Granger and I believe the same will happen with Butler.

waveycrockett
08-05-2013, 04:29 AM
Career scrub :laugh2:

This is good.

But Marco Belinelli is good and better than him?

Good logic.
Yes Dunleavy has been a career scrub. He is a a spot up shooter which the Bulls already have enough of at the very least Marco can get off his own shots and play a little bit of PG in a pinch. This is why I love Bulls fans they are so FEISTY!!!

FOXHOUND
08-05-2013, 04:30 AM
Paul Pierce? Hello and I guess AK-47 is a scrub.

Paul Pierce was an All-Star in 2011-12, at least that's close.

Kirilenko? 2003-04. Calling him an All-Star in 2013 is a bit of a stretch. It's about as relevant as calling Shaq in Phoenix a Finals MVP.

jp611
08-05-2013, 04:35 AM
While Dunleavy was more efficient last year a problem is that he is a SF, a position that is already too cluttered on the Bulls between Deng and the emerging Butler. Butler will be forced to play a lot more SG this year than he probably should. Paul George had his growth stunted from having to play SG instead of SF because of Granger and I believe the same will happen with Butler.

Great. Jimmy Butler is not Paul George.

And Jimmy Butler played a ton of SG last season and is better suited at SG than SF anyway. His size at the 2, along with his rebounding and defensive ability makes him a great option for us at the 2. He also shot 40 percent from 3 from the All Star break on.

Clogged? Funny. Deng plays too many minutes, and he needs a breather sometimes. Our backup SG right now is Kirk Hinrich, Dunleavy can play minutes at the 2.

There will be lots of times that you will see a lineup of Rose/Butler/Dunleavy/Deng/Noah when we go small.

Dunleavy will easily play 20-25 minutes a game, which is plenty. Dunleavy can produce in small spurts. Beli had a lot of trouble producing unless he got a full 35-40 minutes. Our 3 pt shooting was abysmal last year, Dunleavy brings that element to the game.

jp611
08-05-2013, 04:38 AM
Yes Dunleavy has been a career scrub. He is a a spot up shooter which the Bulls already have enough of at the very least Marco can get off his own shots and play a little bit of PG in a pinch. This is why I love Bulls fans they are so FEISTY!!!

Except he's not really. You don't watch basketball if you think that.

Dunleavy is a great passer, sets his teammates up MUCH better than Beli can. Beli was ****ing terrible at playing PG, smart Bulls fans cringed when he played point.

Bulls don't have plenty of spot up shooters... They were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teamsin the league last season, Dunleavy improves that.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 04:40 AM
Yes Dunleavy has been a career scrub. He is a a spot up shooter which the Bulls already have enough of at the very least Marco can get off his own shots and play a little bit of PG in a pinch. This is why I love Bulls fans they are so FEISTY!!
!

THe players the Nets have acquired the bulls have been dominating for years. lol And they're old.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 04:47 AM
If signing old *** players and dreaming of when they were all stars gets u the trophy then the bulls would have gotten it when they signed Rip Hamiton.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 04:57 AM
Dunleavy is a respected player in the league. He had higher offers in FA than what he signed with with the Bulls. Perhaps my two two earlier post were too harsh.

Brad IBCB
08-05-2013, 05:00 AM
Knicks fan calling the Bulls overrated lol

Didn't we sweep them last year? Without Rosť?

FOXHOUND
08-05-2013, 05:02 AM
Great. Jimmy Butler is not Paul George.

And Jimmy Butler played a ton of SG last season and is better suited at SG than SF anyway. His size at the 2, along with his rebounding and defensive ability makes him a great option for us at the 2. He also shot 40 percent from 3 from the All Star break on.

Clogged? Funny. Deng plays too many minutes, and he needs a breather sometimes. Our backup SG right now is Kirk Hinrich, Dunleavy can play minutes at the 2.

There will be lots of times that you will see a lineup of Rose/Butler/Dunleavy/Deng/Noah when we go small.

Dunleavy will easily play 20-25 minutes a game, which is plenty. Dunleavy can produce in small spurts. Beli had a lot of trouble producing unless he got a full 35-40 minutes. Our 3 pt shooting was abysmal last year, Dunleavy brings that element to the game.

I have no concern about Butler's ability to shoot, it would be more about his ability as a ball handler. Obviously you have seen Butler play a lot more than I have, you being a Bulls fan, so if you think Butler is better suited for SG then I'll take your word for it. Defensively he's just a wing, so that doesn't matter.

Dunleavy may have played some SG back in the day, but today he's more a stretch 4 than he is a SG. Hinrich is alright at the 2, I suppose, but a SG trio of Butler, Hinrich and Dunleavy is just a SG/SF, a PG and a SF to me. What I saw of Hinrich last year said to me that he's falling off, I wouldn't feel comfortable with him having to guard any good SGs. Dunleavy having to guard any SG would be a disaster, though I suppose he could guard the SF and Deng could swap to the SG if the opposing SG/SF are similar enough.

I think the last thing Deng needs in his life is to play PF. Less minutes would definitely be good for him, as he's been run ragged the past few seasons.

I expect Dunleavy to get minutes like that as well, and he will produce just fine in the shooting department. The problem I see for the Bulls is guard depth. I've never been a Belinelli fan, so I don't think that loss is a big deal. However, the loss of Nate certainly hurts. Obviously Rose is coming back, but that backcourt is an injury away from having serious issues.

Rose-Butler? Awesome.

Teague-Hinrich? Ehh, not so much for depth.

Teague had a great summer league, even if it is summer league. His shooting is way improved and that translates in any league. If he can step up and replace Nate's role that would be tremendous.

Depth is more of the issue I see with getting Dunleavy over a guard. SF would obviously be fine in any case between Deng and Butler as a SG/SF. The guard depth on the team is seriously lacking.

smiddy012
08-05-2013, 05:17 AM
Depends on their health.

/thread

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 05:30 AM
I have no concern about Butler's ability to shoot, it would be more about his ability as a ball handler. Obviously you have seen Butler play a lot more than I have, you being a Bulls fan, so if you think Butler is better suited for SG then I'll take your word for it. Defensively he's just a wing, so that doesn't matter.

Dunleavy may have played some SG back in the day, but today he's more a stretch 4 than he is a SG. Hinrich is alright at the 2, I suppose, but a SG trio of Butler, Hinrich and Dunleavy is just a SG/SF, a PG and a SF to me. What I saw of Hinrich last year said to me that he's falling off, I wouldn't feel comfortable with him having to guard any good SGs. Dunleavy having to guard any SG would be a disaster, though I suppose he could guard the SF and Deng could swap to the SG if the opposing SG/SF are similar enough.

I think the last thing Deng needs in his life is to play PF. Less minutes would definitely be good for him, as he's been run ragged the past few seasons.

I expect Dunleavy to get minutes like that as well, and he will produce just fine in the shooting department. The problem I see for the Bulls is guard depth. I've never been a Belinelli fan, so I don't think that loss is a big deal. However, the loss of Nate certainly hurts. Obviously Rose is coming back, but that backcourt is an injury away from having serious issues.

Rose-Butler? Awesome.

Teague-Hinrich? Ehh, not so much for depth.

Teague had a great summer league, even if it is summer league. His shooting is way improved and that translates in any league. If he can step up and replace Nate's role that would be tremendous.

Depth is more of the issue I see with getting Dunleavy over a guard. SF would obviously be fine in any case between Deng and Butler as a SG/SF. The guard depth on the team is seriously lacking.

Bulls guards:
Derrick
Jimmy
Kirk
Dunleavy
Snell
Teague

Thats already 6 guys who can play guard. Dunleavy is a pleyer who would be defending the weaker wing in probably every situation.

east fb knicks
08-05-2013, 05:40 AM
Fair enough bro. Now do the same thing u just did for the bulls but replace them with UR Knicks. See if u like ur answer.

chandler< noah
bargs>boozer
melo>deng
shump>idk lmao
felton<rose

and lets not even bring up our bench jr smith is better than any sg you guys have and he's coming off the bench lmao

All-In
08-05-2013, 05:43 AM
The Bulls are not being overrated…..they beat the all-mighty nets last year in the playoffs with Nate Robinson…imagine what they can do with a healthy Derrick Rose….and besides all the player talk I’m hearing what about coaches?...NBA defensives are so complex nowadays with layers upon layers….it doesn’t just take someone to “see” the court but they must “read” the court to be successful….Tibbs to me is a great coach, down 3-1 to nets overcame countless injures to win series is just WOW….Jason Kidd to me got a tech while coaching a summer league game….Bulls are top 3 team in east

jp611
08-05-2013, 05:45 AM
chandler< noah
bargs>boozer
melo>deng
shump>idk lmao
felton<rose

and lets not even bring up our bench jr smith is better than any sg you guys have and he's coming off the bench lmao

Bargs>Boozer :laugh:

My ****ing sides.

IDK LMAO? Is that Jimmy Butler's nickname? Because Jimmy is light years ahead of Shumpert at this point

Comedy hour.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 05:48 AM
chandler< noah
bargs>boozer
melo>deng
shump>idk lmao
felton<rose

and lets not even bring up our bench jr smith is better than any sg you guys have and he's coming off the bench lmao

It seems like u are the king of arbitrary comparisons.

All-In
08-05-2013, 05:54 AM
chandler< noah
bargs>boozer
melo>deng
shump>idk lmao
felton<rose

and lets not even bring up our bench jr smith is better than any sg you guys have and he's coming off the bench lmao

Lol You lost me at Bargs being better than Boozer…that’s a joke right? And doing the whole “this player”< “than that player” thing doesn’t mean ****

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 05:55 AM
Bargs>Boozer :laugh:

My ****ing sides.

IDK LMAO? Is that Jimmy Butler's nickname? Because Jimmy is light years ahead of Shumpert at this point

Comedy hour.

Thats what happen when the wrong people get a hold of math symbols. I think that guy watches too many cartoons.

Bulls_fan90
08-05-2013, 06:05 AM
chandler< noah
bargs>boozer
melo>deng
shump>idk lmao
felton<rose

and lets not even bring up our bench jr smith is better than any sg you guys have and he's coming off the bench lmao
Hahaha oh man. Fyi Jimmy Butler, the guy that had a better season than Shump is our starting sg. :laugh:

effen5
08-05-2013, 09:09 AM
Yes Dunleavy has been a career scrub. He is a a spot up shooter which the Bulls already have enough of at the very least Marco can get off his own shots and play a little bit of PG in a pinch. This is why I love Bulls fans they are so FEISTY!!!

Who did the Bulls have that was a good 3pt shooter last year? We were AWFUL last year....and yeah lets stop overrating Marco, he created his own shots last year very rarely.

effen5
08-05-2013, 09:10 AM
chandler< noah
bargs>boozer
melo>deng
shump>idk lmao
felton<rose

and lets not even bring up our bench jr smith is better than any sg you guys have and he's coming off the bench lmao

You can admit, you know nothing about the Bulls.
The fact that you think Bargs is better than Booz WOW....maybe you should know your own players since that isn't even CLOSE.
And the fact that you think Shump is better than "IDK LMAO" AKA Jimmy Butler...wow....you are delusional.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 10:41 AM
You see the Bulls as overrated...I tell you they are not.

I tell you both the Knicks and Nets are overrated and then you go ahead and call me a little school girl for not giving your team not enough respect.

no i said teenage girl jealous....never said you were a teenage girl.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 10:45 AM
Being factual and being opinionated are two different things. You are being biased. And yes, I see that team as being mediocre, and I don't see you guys winning more than 50 games this year. JR Smith had a fantastic season which I don't see him replicating next year.

Im trying to help you see this, but you seem to not understand.
Being factual? about what? The Bulls getting a 1-2 seed? How is your opinion factual?
You are basing your OPINION on what the Bulls did 2-3 seasons ago with a PRE_INJURY Drose.
I am basing my OPINION off a 54 win Knicks team from LAST year that lost old old players and gained players that can really help them.
Im not stating FACT that the Knicks will be better, just my opinion. Where are your FACTS?

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 10:54 AM
Butler is a great young player. So is Iman Shumpert. Neither is "Light years" ahead of the other.

effen5
08-05-2013, 10:55 AM
Im trying to help you see this, but you seem to not understand.
Being factual? about what? The Bulls getting a 1-2 seed? How is your opinion factual?
You are basing your OPINION on what the Bulls did 2-3 seasons ago with a PRE_INJURY Drose.
I am basing my OPINION off a 54 win Knicks team from LAST year that lost old old players and gained players that can really help them.
Im not stating FACT that the Knicks will be better, just my opinion. Where are your FACTS?

Here's my facts about the Knicks. You guys won 54 games with your main core in tact. Here is another fact, JR Smith NEVER avged 18ppg until last year....last year was a fluke. I actually see the Knicks taking a step back this year.

My facts about the Bulls...Bulls won 45 games with half their starters out or injured. Bulls last season saw the emergence of Jimmy Butler as the 2 guard. Bulls next season will have a 110% Healthy Rose. Rose is better than Hinrich and Nate put together and Nate and Hinrich helped the Bulls win 45. Rose never got to play with a healthy Boozer or Noah and managed to win 62. I could see the Bulls winning 60 again next year.

effen5
08-05-2013, 10:55 AM
Butler is a great young player. So is Iman Shumpert. Neither is "Light years" ahead of the other.

Yeah, I beg to differ.

Chill_Will_24
08-05-2013, 10:57 AM
Your nets got dogged by a depleted bulls roster. Add rosť... It MORE than negates the nets recent aquisitions. The bulls are the second best team in the east by a large margin.

You are comparing

Deron
JJ
Wallace
Reggie
Brook

to

Deron
JJ
Pierce
Garnett
Brook

your argument is invalid as is the argument of anyone trying to use the Bulls 7 game victory over the Nets to bolster their argument.

Rose even if completely himself will not be enough IN THE PLAYOFFS to get the Bulls past the Heat. Not even close. Their defense will do its work as always but even if they are healthy come playoff time, their offense is still to reliant on Rose.

The loss of Asik and Korver was huge for them as well. People always fail to mention them when they talk about the great 2010 Bulls

effen5
08-05-2013, 11:01 AM
You are comparing

Deron
JJ
Wallace
Reggie
Brook

to

Deron
JJ
Pierce
Garnett
Brook

your argument is invalid as is the argument of anyone trying to use the Bulls 7 game victory over the Nets to bolster their argument.

Rose even if completely himself will not be enough IN THE PLAYOFFS to get the Bulls past the Heat. Not even close. Their defense will do its work as always but even if they are healthy come playoff time, their offense is still to reliant on Rose.

The loss of Asik and Korver was huge for them as well. People always fail to mention them when they talk about the great 2010 Bulls

Of course is a big loss, but in this system, it's like the Bill Belichick system. Next man up and for this team...it works. Someone always comes up big. And as for the Nets team, it just looks like a modified Boston Celtics team from the past without a great coach.

Chill_Will_24
08-05-2013, 11:07 AM
Of course is a big loss, but in this system, it's like the Bill Belichick system. Next man up and for this team...it works. Someone always comes up big. And as for the Nets team, it just looks like a modified Boston Celtics team from the past without a great coach.

Thats cute but purely speculation

boboo73
08-05-2013, 11:08 AM
The Knicks had the 2nd most missed games in the league last year, only trailing Minnesota, and no one gives them the benefit of the doubt there and they were the 2 seed.

Bulls starters missed more quarters than any other team last season.

KnickaBocka.44
08-05-2013, 11:22 AM
Thats cute but purely speculation

All you do is speculate.

29$JerZ
08-05-2013, 11:31 AM
My Nets were depleted themselves, got rid of a horrible coach then added 2 allstars to their roster, another former allstar to the BENCH and a 6th man of the year to their bench. Good luck with negating anything with Rose coming back off a ripped up knee.

Nets were mostly healthy, had HCA, and had the luxury to play a Bulls team missing Deng/Hinrich and Noah on 1 good foot. You can only blame your coach so much, Bulls were a better and more hardowrking team than Brooklyn last year. That's why you lost.

And bringing up Rose knee but mentioning adding a 6Moty in Terry who had a huge down year is funny.


Here's my facts about the Knicks. You guys won 54 games with your main core in tact. Here is another fact, JR Smith NEVER avged 18ppg until last year....last year was a fluke. I actually see the Knicks taking a step back this year.

My facts about the Bulls...Bulls won 45 games with half their starters out or injured. Bulls last season saw the emergence of Jimmy Butler as the 2 guard. Bulls next season will have a 110% Healthy Rose. Rose is better than Hinrich and Nate put together and Nate and Hinrich helped the Bulls win 45. Rose never got to play with a healthy Boozer or Noah and managed to win 62. I could see the Bulls winning 60 again next year.

You'll need to explain how JR season was a fluke. He realized slashing/drawing fouls > pull back 3's to end the season. He's pretty much guaranteed to replicate last season success unless his surgery goes wrong.

Chicago should win 54-60 games next season if Rose is 100% back and Butler proves to be that SG you guys have lacked.

Goose17
08-05-2013, 11:38 AM
He's pretty much guaranteed to replicate last season success unless his surgery goes wrong.


Won't matter if he chokes in the playoffs again.

One chucker (Melo) is enough, why they feel the need to have two I'll never know.

KnickaBocka.44
08-05-2013, 11:44 AM
Won't matter if he chokes in the playoffs again.

One chucker (Melo) is enough, why they feel the need to have two I'll never know.

Such an intelligent post. :rolleyes:

monty77
08-05-2013, 11:45 AM
The Bulls are capable to reach 1st seed in the NBA in regular season but there isn't any option to win NBA championship with their current roster. They will be able to beat any team from Western Conference if they have all their pieces in good order (SAS, HOU, OKL maybe in seventh game) but there is no chance with MIA.

Ok, they have three player which have played allstar game sometime: Boozer, Noah and Deng, besides DRose, a superstar if he is healthy. Jimmy Butler will be an allstar sooner than latter but this isn't enough due to three friends like Lebron, Wade and Bosh decided make it easy. I don't know why NBA didn't forbid it, this is a bad example to the new generations, lazy in itself.

It's impossible to beat MIA even if they lose some pieces like Miller, Battier or Allen the next year or the other one because there is always players such Greg Oden or verteran players ready to ear less money in order to win a ring. The Heat are a safe bet and this situation is going to repeat through next 5 or 6 years. In my opinion, the fact that a false and artificial team such as Miami mark an era in the NBA will be very dangerous for this sport. Time to time.

Meanwhile, the other teams' fans will be eating boogers and waiting for Lebron's retirement. I unsubscribe my sports tv because to know that Miami are going to win this championship make me sick. I hope Bulls fight worthily but they have stablished a top, a ceilling: conference finals.

Aapox
08-05-2013, 12:14 PM
The Bulls are capable to reach 1st seed in the NBA in regular season but there isn't any option to win NBA championship with their current roster. They will be able to beat any team from Western Conference if they have all their pieces in good order (SAS, HOU, OKL maybe in seventh game) but there is no chance with MIA.

Ok, they have three player which have played allstar game sometime: Boozer, Noah and Deng, besides DRose, a superstar if he is healthy. Jimmy Butler will be an allstar sooner than latter but this isn't enough due to three friends like Lebron, Wade and Bosh decided make it easy. I don't know why NBA didn't forbid it, this is a bad example to the new generations, lazy in itself.

It's impossible to beat MIA even if they lose some pieces like Miller, Battier or Allen the next year or the other one because there is always players such Greg Oden or verteran players ready to ear less money in order to win a ring. The Heat are a safe bet and this situation is going to repeat through next 5 or 6 years. In my opinion, the fact that a false and artificial team such as Miami mark an era in the NBA will be very dangerous for this sport. Time to time.

Meanwhile, the other teams' fans will be eating boogers and waiting for Lebron's retirement. I unsubscribe my sports tv because to know that Miami are going to win this championship make me sick. I hope Bulls fight worthily but they have stablished a top, a ceilling: conference finals.

While I agree with much of what you wrote and the sentiment of your post, you never know what's gonna happen. Injuries, players over and under performing, trades, etc will all affect how each season goes. You never know what's going to happen with the Heat and although they'll surely be the favorites as long as Lebron is wearing their jersey, there's no guarantee they're going to win. Just look at game 6 of the Finals. They were >.< this close to losing. That's why they PLAY the games! :D

denverfan66
08-05-2013, 12:26 PM
Think a lot of the injuries the Bulls had last year were caused by Thibs having to overplay guys because of having no Rose. The Rose injury might've been a blessing in disguise. Players like Noah and especially Butler had to step up in absence of Derrick. As for Rose himself, plenty of great players have come back from this injury and performed like they did before.

effen5
08-05-2013, 01:31 PM
You'll need to explain how JR season was a fluke. He realized slashing/drawing fouls > pull back 3's to end the season. He's pretty much guaranteed to replicate last season success unless his surgery goes wrong.

Chicago should win 54-60 games next season if Rose is 100% back and Butler proves to be that SG you guys have lacked.

If JR realized that slashing and drawing fouls is better than shooting 3s, why, at the END OF THE YEAR, in the playoffs is he shooting more 3s in the game than earlier in the season?

He reverted back to his old game....shooting 3s.

Stinkyoutsider
08-05-2013, 01:31 PM
Not sure if they get a free pass but defense and hustle can keep you in games if done right. Those 2 things are what the Bulls do best. Fight for loose balls/turnovers, fight on the boards, and work hard on rotations.

As far as the club, Boozer has been a dependable regular season player and Rose is coming back at 100% (as far as we know). I believe Butler continues his play and Deng is known for his consistency. If the Bulls can stay healty, they'll be near the top again.

Thibbs is the key I think? I know winning is everything to him but I think he needs to take one step back and put the focus on keeping the key players fresh and prepared to compete in the playoffs. I'm hoping the Bulls do something to reinforce the bench because, knowing Thibbs, he won't hesitate at all to play our starters 40 minutes a game each for the entire season if they don't perform.

Chill_Will_24
08-05-2013, 01:40 PM
All you do is speculate.

Please elaborate

ztilzer31
08-05-2013, 01:40 PM
I think Rose is a little overrated and Noah is a little underrated.

We'll see though. Might be kind of an ugly start, but I expect them to flirt with 60 wins for sure.

29$JerZ
08-05-2013, 01:42 PM
If JR realized that slashing and drawing fouls is better than shooting 3s, why, at the END OF THE YEAR, in the playoffs is he shooting more 3s in the game than earlier in the season?

He reverted back to his old game....shooting 3s.

He was pretty bad in the postseason after Game 3 in round 1 but it didn't help that everyone outside of Melo/Copeland couldn't hit an open layup/3.

And don't worry, English is easy.

ztilzer31
08-05-2013, 01:43 PM
Also if we're discussing who has a bigger question mark this year Bulls/Nets it's the Nets by far. Kidd could very well be horrible at coaching.

We'll see though. I definitely expect the Bulls to go far this year though. I don't see any reason why not.

Chill_Will_24
08-05-2013, 01:46 PM
Nets were mostly healthy, had HCA, and had the luxury to play a Bulls team missing Deng/Hinrich and Noah on 1 good foot. You can only blame your coach so much, Bulls were a better and more hardowrking team than Brooklyn last year. That's why you lost.

Joe Johnson had the same exact "one foot" injury throughout that series. Funny you dont mention. And btw yes you can blame a coach when its PJ Carlisimo ISO ISO ISO with 2 useless offensive players in Wallace and Reggie making the Bulls' defensive task much easier.

Pierce and Garnett solve every problem we had vs the Bulls

kozelkid
08-05-2013, 01:55 PM
Of course is a big loss, but in this system, it's like the Bill Belichick system. Next man up and for this team...it works. Someone always comes up big. And as for the Nets team, it just looks like a modified Boston Celtics team from the past without a great coach.

Thats cute but purely speculation

What exactly do we have regarding the Nets beyond speculation? All we can base them on is largely the Celtics core with Nets of last year.

For what it's worth, they remind me a lot of the 2010 Celtics. That's not a bad thing when you consider the fact that that team was one quarter away from winning it all. At the same time, they had a lot going for them in that postseason, a hell of a coach, and a significantly weaker East.

Should be fun.

Chill_Will_24
08-05-2013, 02:06 PM
What exactly do we have regarding the Nets beyond speculation? All we can base them on is largely the Celtics core with Nets of last year.

For what it's worth, they remind me a lot of the 2010 Celtics. That's not a bad thing when you consider the fact that that team was one quarter away from winning it all. At the same time, they had a lot going for them in that postseason, a hell of a coach, and a significantly weaker East.

Should be fun.

I assumed he was talking 2012 Celtics. If the best the Nets can be is 2010 Celtics ill gladly take it. I agree it will be so much fun.

Rose back. IND and BKN got an upgrade. Detroit looks dangerous. CLE should be fun. NY has players that wear nice basketball gear. ATL is better than people are giving credit for. Thats just the east. The west is arguably even funner

29$JerZ
08-05-2013, 02:10 PM
Joe Johnson had the same exact "one foot" injury throughout that series. Funny you dont mention. And btw yes you can blame a coach when its PJ Carlisimo ISO ISO ISO with 2 useless offensive players in Wallace and Reggie making the Bulls' defensive task much easier.

Pierce and Garnett solve every problem we had vs the Bulls

I don't mention it because it's pointless to bring up. Fact is Chicago was much more crippled by injuries than Brooklyn was. They still loss. I completely understand why fans would blame it mostly on PJ but I don't believe he was the biggest reason your team loss in round 1.

I disagree about Pierce/KG fixing everything that was wrong in that series. They ultimately loss that series because Deron couldn't guard Nate to save his life and Noah literally out players Evans/Lopez.
They are both huge upgrades from what Crash/Evans were as starters but I can easily see Chicago still out hustle and board Brooklyn's entire front court.

Also you have to take into account if everyone is actually healthy Brooklyn will now have to deal with Rose/Deng instead of Nate/Marco. So while Brooklyn has gotten better so has Chicago which is why I don't understand why you think BK has fixed everything that was wrong with the team and Chicago hasn't. Is Deron going to defend Rose any better than he did Nate? Is KG enough to deal with Noah? I don't think so. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing it. Basketball can't come any sooner.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 02:18 PM
Besides maybe PG Nets beat Bulls at all other positions. and Nets have the much better bench.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 02:21 PM
I don't mention it because it's pointless to bring up. Fact is Chicago was much more crippled by injuries than Brooklyn was. They still loss. I completely understand why fans would blame it mostly on PJ but I don't believe he was the biggest reason your team loss in round 1.

I disagree about Pierce/KG fixing everything that was wrong in that series. They ultimately loss that series because Deron couldn't guard Nate to save his life and Noah literally out players Evans/Lopez.
They are both huge upgrades from what Crash/Evans were as starters but I can easily see Chicago still out hustle and board Brooklyn's entire front court.

Also you have to take into account if everyone is actually healthy Brooklyn will now have to deal with Rose/Deng instead of Nate/Marco. So while Brooklyn has gotten better so has Chicago which is why I don't understand why you think BK has fixed everything that was wrong with the team and Chicago hasn't. Is Deron going to defend Rose any better than he did Nate? Is KG enough to deal with Noah? I don't think so. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing it. Basketball can't come any sooner.

Nets are much better than the Bulls, its not even close. Like ive said since the start Rose is basically LeBron in Cleveland really not talent no 2nd scoring option. Noah is nothing to deal with he is a Varejo on Cavs a role player.

Chill_Will_24
08-05-2013, 02:34 PM
I don't mention it because it's pointless to bring up. Fact is Chicago was much more crippled by injuries than Brooklyn was. They still loss. I completely understand why fans would blame it mostly on PJ but I don't believe he was the biggest reason your team loss in round 1.

I disagree about Pierce/KG fixing everything that was wrong in that series. They ultimately loss that series because Deron couldn't guard Nate to save his life and Noah literally out players Evans/Lopez.
They are both huge upgrades from what Crash/Evans were as starters but I can easily see Chicago still out hustle and board Brooklyn's entire front court.

Also you have to take into account if everyone is actually healthy Brooklyn will now have to deal with Rose/Deng instead of Nate/Marco. So while Brooklyn has gotten better so has Chicago which is why I don't understand why you think BK has fixed everything that was wrong with the team and Chicago hasn't. Is Deron going to defend Rose any better than he did Nate? Is KG enough to deal with Noah? I don't think so. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing it. Basketball can't come any sooner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3t-DuslN4E

You are so off base its not even funny my man. Your constantly commenting on the Nets as if you have a clue about their squad.

I saw one bucket off on Deron off a good screen, a bs 3pt foul call, and a crazy bank shot that even Nate didnt think would go in. Most of that was on Watson who is not a good defender, and on Reggie "dont contest not care for defense because i care more for the rebound" Evans. The BKN interior defense was too terrible for words and that was 80% Reggie Evans 19% effort by the guards. With Garnett and Pierce this all changes. No more lazy D and no more weak interior D. Some of those shots by Nate were ridiculous and while i am sure Bulls fans are glad for it they will be the first to tell you that it was just an anomaly

Moreover while Noah played great and i think his impact on the overall series was much greater than what Lopez brought by no means did he have his way with Lopez except for one game. Lopez did what he always does and Noah and the other bigs could not stop him most of the series. Overall i think bringing in a presence like KG will help Brook in both sides of the court because no longer will Lopez be doubled or tripled on every play.

Also i said we fixed everything that was wrong with the Nets in that series, not that we would now be sure to beat them. Our problem through the season was and in the playoffs still was interior defense along with a simplistic ISO offense (PJ Carlisimo) that included 2 useless offensive players on the court making the Bulls job much easier. Not sure how you dont believe adding KG and Pierce doesnt fix that. We also had no problems with Deng for the most part when he played. Our achilles heel was (surprise Reggie's man) Carlos Boozer/Joakim Noah, and penetration by the guards (Reggie again).

As far as Carlisimo our best lineup through the season and in the playoffs was with Blatche at PF with Lopez at C. You would think a semi good coach would realize the advantages that replacing a useless offensive player with a really good one would have on your team but apparently rebounds are all that matter

Just do me a favor and stick to the Knicks. You clearly are too biased to discuss the Nets without putting forth inaccurate information

king4day
08-05-2013, 02:58 PM
Which team doesn't have questions though?

I agree with this.
I haven't seen many people put them at the 1-2 anyway. Heat/Pacers have been the consensus it seems.

After that, BKN, Chicago, and NYK have flip flopped.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 03:01 PM
Here's my facts about the Knicks. You guys won 54 games with your main core in tact. Here is another fact, JR Smith NEVER avged 18ppg until last year....last year was a fluke. I actually see the Knicks taking a step back this year.

My facts about the Bulls...Bulls won 45 games with half their starters out or injured. Bulls last season saw the emergence of Jimmy Butler as the 2 guard. Bulls next season will have a 110% Healthy Rose. Rose is better than Hinrich and Nate put together and Nate and Hinrich helped the Bulls win 45. Rose never got to play with a healthy Boozer or Noah and managed to win 62. I could see the Bulls winning 60 again next year.

Dont want to get nto a silly tit for tat argument about our favorite teams, but you see thrugh red colored glasses without ever being objective.
JR Smith has found a home. He loves NY and Loves Woodson. His 18 PPG can't be looked at at "Lucky" the man was a regular season beast. No reason in the same system with the same Head Coach he can't be even better this year. You just assume he will become worse. Why?
With your thinking, James harden will be worse this year because last year was a fluke. Players do break out and become stars you know.
Now about your "Facts" The Knicks were big time injured last year. Iman Shumpert our rising stud missed almost 3 months. he is a starter. Amare Stoudemire missed almost 4 total months he was a Starter last year until injured before the season even started. Veteran Bigs, Wallace, Thomas, Camby all Missed most of the season. Kmart was brought in on a 10 day contract to be the backup Center. Copeland a 30 year old rookie got playing time because we were ridiculously injured. Our "Core" was big time injured almost the entire season. Melo and Chandler both went down. Why make statements about a team you never see play?
My question to start this whole thing is are the Bulls being over rated because....And one of those things was depending on DRose to play MVP caliber ball again. Will he ever be that same player? You and I both simply do not know.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 03:05 PM
Yeah, I beg to differ.

See again, you only look at Butler. He had some fantastic games, but you must never watch Shumpert play at all because you just throw him aside as "Garbage".

Iman Shumpert is a star in the making. A serious (Drose like ) Knee injury sidelined him through January and it took him until march to break out again.

Why cant they both be great young players? Why because he is a Knick do you disregard him so quickly. My brother is a huge Bulls fan. he was the one who got me watching Butler last year. Jimmy is a stud, and so is Shumpert. Watch him and you will understand.

effen5
08-05-2013, 03:08 PM
Nets are much better than the Bulls, its not even close. Like ive said since the start Rose is basically LeBron in Cleveland really not talent no 2nd scoring option. Noah is nothing to deal with he is a Varejo on Cavs a role player.

You really need to stay out of the forum, you haven't been right about anything. Especially the playoffs.

"Bulls have no shot, they will get swept"

That was you during the playoffs.

jp611
08-05-2013, 03:09 PM
Shumpert is all hype

Just another blown up NYK draft pick, he's a solid player and a damn good defender, but star in the making is silly

jp611
08-05-2013, 03:10 PM
I thought DMF was going to delete his account if the bulls won?

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 03:11 PM
No one is tougher on Knicks players than knicks fans on PSD. Almost without exception they all Love Iman Shumpert.
Last year even Melo got raked over the coals.....Shumpert is the real deal

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 03:12 PM
Shumpert is all hype

Just another blown up NYK draft pick, he's a solid player and a damn good defender, but star in the making is silly

Another knick hater who never watches Shump play. I get it

jp611
08-05-2013, 03:13 PM
No one is tougher on Knicks players than knicks fans on PSD. Almost without exception they all Love Iman Shumpert.
Last year even Melo got raked over the coals.....Shumpert is the real deal

:laugh2:

If the real deal is a solid NBA player who plays great D yes?

If the real deal is a superstar or even an All-Star caliber player... You're in for a rude awakening

jp611
08-05-2013, 03:13 PM
Another knick hater who never watches Shump play. I get it

No, I watch him, not a hater at all

Shump is good, but not what you think he is

Chill_Will_24
08-05-2013, 03:15 PM
Shumpert is all hype

Just another blown up NYK draft pick, he's a solid player and a damn good defender, but star in the making is silly

I think he means hip hop star

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 03:18 PM
I thought DMF was going to delete his account if the bulls won?

Wouldnt that have been nice. Big surprise. He was full of it.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 03:27 PM
Nets are much better than the Bulls, its not even close. Like ive said since the start Rose is basically LeBron in Cleveland really not talent no 2nd scoring option. Noah is nothing to deal with he is a Varejo on Cavs a role player.

No talent? Dont u know the Bulls have two allstars surrounding him. Guys in their prime too. Not guys well in into their decline.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 03:30 PM
Shumpert is all hype

Just another blown up NYK draft pick, he's a solid player and a damn good defender, but star in the making is silly

Imagine the hype when he shoots over 40% for once?

LegendsNvrDie23
08-05-2013, 03:43 PM
The bulls are getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed in the east by so many people. Is this really how good they will be in 2013-14? or do they get ranked so high based off of past results?

We all know that Thibs is a great coach and that players who play for him over-achieve, but how many increase in wins are being based off of Rose coming off a SERIOUS knee injury?

Can Boozer even come close to the year he had last year? Or will he revert to the Albatross contract waste he had been previously? Bulls fans wanted to run him out of town, and once Rose was gone, he actually played better. Can Rose and Boozer co-exist together on this squad?

Jimmy "Buckets" Butler was a great breakout story last year, will that continue? Will he even get the minutes he had last year?

Deng was so over-used last year, can he overcome the trade talk and mega minutes he will see again?

Noah, My favorite player on that team had so many health issues last year, can he stay on the court?

The Bulls have a lot of questions, are they really a number 1-2 seed?

The Bulls will be a top 3 seed without a doubt. We will be super dangerous with our whole squad healthy. Miami will not make the finals this year.

Shmontaine
08-05-2013, 03:57 PM
Nets are much better than the Bulls, its not even close. Like ive said since the start Rose is basically LeBron in Cleveland really not talent no 2nd scoring option. Noah is nothing to deal with he is a Varejo on Cavs a role player.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?817673-R1G7-Chicago-Bulls-(5)-Brooklyn-Nets-(4)-5-4-13-8-00-PM-ET-Series-tied-3-3&p=26139914#post26139914


Bulls earned my respect tonight a lot. They played such a strong game.

Good job Bulls

can't even give the bulls your 'respect' all the way through the off-season i see. your expert analysis and your excellent track record for putting your foot in your mouth seem to have taught you nothing. oh well, go out and tout a team that has seen a ton of overhaul, complete with a rookie coach who the owner basically hired because he was looking for a name, not a coach. could the nets be good this year with their upgraded new additions and a rookie head coach? sure. could the lakers have been good last year with their upgraded new additions and a new head coach? sure...

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 04:07 PM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?817673-R1G7-Chicago-Bulls-(5)-Brooklyn-Nets-(4)-5-4-13-8-00-PM-ET-Series-tied-3-3&p=26139914#post26139914



can't even give the bulls your 'respect' all the way through the off-season i see. your expert analysis and your excellent track record for putting your foot in your mouth seem to have taught you nothing. oh well, go out and tout a team that has seen a ton of overhaul, complete with a rookie coach who the owner basically hired because he was looking for a name, not a coach. could the nets be good this year with their upgraded new additions and a rookie head coach? sure. could the lakers have been good last year with their upgraded new additions and a new head coach? sure...

Lol typical, you find anything you can any little quote and you over power it to prove your point and you run with it. typical. Thats all you guys do is you look for anything you can and you run with it.

As for Jason Kidd he has been around the game for 20 years I think he knows something about caoching, he also has high paid assistants and as his top assistant a former head coach Lawrence Frank. Dont worry about how the coach will make his transition.

effen5
08-05-2013, 04:18 PM
So you bash a former hc, and an assistant from the dream team, but your telling us not to worry about a coach that's never coached in his life?

Shmontaine
08-05-2013, 04:20 PM
Lol typical, you find anything you can any little quote and you over power it to prove your point and you run with it. typical. Thats all you guys do is you look for anything you can and you run with it.

As for Jason Kidd he has been around the game for 20 years I think he knows something about caoching, he also has high paid assistants and as his top assistant a former head coach Lawrence Frank. Dont worry about how the coach will make his transition.

what's typical is your contradicting yourself over and over. what did i 'run with', whatever that means? you stated something 3 months ago that i laughed at so hard i remembered it the second you start stating how this nets team is 'so much better it's not even close'... okay... all you did was state the same nonsense in the playoffs last year. i took your own words, mind you.

believe me, i will not worry about anything the nets will be doing. they're a sideshow because of their payroll, and they will not match on the court what you so assertively claim to see on paper.

smiddy012
08-05-2013, 04:21 PM
You are comparing

Deron
JJ
Wallace
Reggie
Brook

to

Deron
JJ
Pierce
Garnett
Brook

your argument is invalid as is the argument of anyone trying to use the Bulls 7 game victory over the Nets to bolster their argument.

Rose even if completely himself will not be enough IN THE PLAYOFFS to get the Bulls past the Heat. Not even close. Their defense will do its work as always but even if they are healthy come playoff time, their offense is still to reliant on Rose.

The loss of Asik and Korver was huge for them as well. People always fail to mention them when they talk about the great 2010 Bulls

This is the type of comment that makes Bulls fans realize that your opinion on the Bulls is invalid.

We add a healthy Rose, Deng, Noah, & Hinrich, not to mention a budding star in Butler, yet you're still worried about Korver and Asik? Really? We don't even need Asik with a healthy Noah. And whether it be Korver, Nate, or Beli, Dunleavy is a more consistent long-range shooter with a better all-around game and higher IQ.

Yes, NJ is not the same team, and I recognize that, but the Bulls have improved more over the off-season than NJ, simply by getting healthy. This team is plenty better than the 2010 Bulls bro, we had ****ing Bogans starting at SG, get real.

Shmontaine
08-05-2013, 04:22 PM
So you bash a former hc, and an assistant from the dream team, but your telling us not to worry about a coach that's never coached in his life?

uh, because of the assistants. duh. probably, like, the best assistants ever. they're the #1 coaches who aren't head coaches. they're that good...

ztilzer31
08-05-2013, 04:24 PM
Besides maybe PG Nets beat Bulls at all other positions. and Nets have the much better bench.

Sorry not at Center either. I like Brooks. He's one of the best scoring big men in the league, but Noah brings so much to the bulls. He's a big part of how that defense works.

Also it comes down to Kidd. Kidd is a new coach. Loved him as a player, but that doesn't mean he's going to come in as an amazing coach right off the bat. He has a learning curve.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 04:25 PM
Sorry not at Center either. I like Brooks. He's one of the best scoring big men in the league, but Noah brings so much to the bulls. He's a big part of how that defense works.

Also it comes down to Kidd. Kidd is a new coach. Loved him as a player, but that doesn't mean he's going to come in as an amazing coach right off the bat. He has a learning curve.

so defensive players are better than offensive players? based on what exactly?

smiddy012
08-05-2013, 04:32 PM
Joe Johnson had the same exact "one foot" injury throughout that series. Funny you dont mention. And btw yes you can blame a coach when its PJ Carlisimo ISO ISO ISO with 2 useless offensive players in Wallace and Reggie making the Bulls' defensive task much easier.

Pierce and Garnett solve every problem we had vs the Bulls

Pierce does not solve a thing, Deng has made him his ***** the last few seasons. None of your wings scare the Bulls, only your FC can give the Bulls problems. If we didn't have Taj behind Booz then I might really be scared.

I would give NJ the better FC, but when it comes to everything else the Bulls out-edge NJ.

Edit: And I have yet to see JJ in a Brooklyn uni not suck against the Bulls.

Shmontaine
08-05-2013, 04:33 PM
Sorry not at Center either. I like Brooks. He's one of the best scoring big men in the league, but Noah brings so much to the bulls. He's a big part of how that defense works.

Also it comes down to Kidd. Kidd is a new coach. Loved him as a player, but that doesn't mean he's going to come in as an amazing coach right off the bat. He has a learning curve.

Case could be made for SG position as well...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=butleji01&y1=2013&p2=johnsjo02&y2=2013

JordansBulls
08-05-2013, 04:34 PM
The key is Jimmy Butler this year for the Bulls. If he can hold Lebron down like he did last season in the playoffs the Bulls will beat Miami.

smiddy012
08-05-2013, 04:38 PM
The key is Jimmy Butler this year for the Bulls. If he can hold Lebron down like he did last season in the playoffs the Bulls will beat Miami.

Damn it JB, usually you're more pessimistic, but you're going a little too far with the predications ;) Though we are certainly capable of beating the Heat though with a healthy starting 5 I must concur. And I'm not sure if any player in the league has held Lebron down recently... I think the way to beat Miami would be to try and make Lebron do all the work, limiting their other players capabilities.

ztilzer31
08-05-2013, 05:15 PM
so defensive players are better than offensive players? based on what exactly?

Brooks Lopez is a better scorer, but Noah is a better passer (actually pretty darn good for a big man) better defender, and more versatile. He also can run the floor better, and anchors Chicago's whole defense. He's also a better leader, and a better rebounder than Brooks. Brooks is soft defensively, and soft on the boards. As much as I love his scoring he's a soft player. Straight up. Maybe having KG next to him toughens him up, but besides scoring Brooks really isn't good for anything else.

smiddy012
08-05-2013, 05:26 PM
Lopez impressed me in the playoffs to the point in which I'm willing to put him at (or very near) Noahs level (as of now). He kind of strikes me as a player who just needs a defensive type coach to teach and kick him in the ***. I'd kill to have him over Booz, though he definitely is slow-footed.

Yeah Noah brings more to the table, but Lopez is a bonafied 2nd scoring option on a championship caliber team IMO. I think Noah fits better with the Bulls obviously, but not many big men have offensive games like Lopez to say the least.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 05:44 PM
Brooks Lopez is a better scorer, but Noah is a better passer (actually pretty darn good for a big man) better defender, and more versatile. He also can run the floor better, and anchors Chicago's whole defense. He's also a better leader, and a better rebounder than Brooks. Brooks is soft defensively, and soft on the boards. As much as I love his scoring he's a soft player. Straight up. Maybe having KG next to him toughens him up, but besides scoring Brooks really isn't good for anything else.

Brook actually has great foot work and a postgame that Noah doesnt have. A big man that has a great postgame and that can score is hard to find. There are so many rebounding and defensive centers in the league. Lopez is better to have.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 05:45 PM
what's typical is your contradicting yourself over and over. what did i 'run with', whatever that means? you stated something 3 months ago that i laughed at so hard i remembered it the second you start stating how this nets team is 'so much better it's not even close'... okay... all you did was state the same nonsense in the playoffs last year. i took your own words, mind you.

believe me, i will not worry about anything the nets will be doing. they're a sideshow because of their payroll, and they will not match on the court what you so assertively claim to see on paper.

DMF is overrating the Nets to try and prove the Bulls are overrated?

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 05:47 PM
Brook actually has great foot work and a postgame that Noah doesnt have. A big man that has a great postgame and that can score is hard to find. There are so many rebounding and defensive centers in the league. Lopez is better to have.

You act like all ur opinions are fact. Which they arent . they are only ur opinion. Evidenced by the Noah getting to be allstar before Lopez, as lopez was only included by injury stipulation. Meaning a majority of nba coaches felt Noah was better to have.

ztilzer31
08-05-2013, 06:00 PM
Brook actually has great foot work and a postgame that Noah doesnt have. A big man that has a great postgame and that can score is hard to find. There are so many rebounding and defensive centers in the league. Lopez is better to have.

I agree, and maybe if he had the terrific post game with good rebouding, or solid defense. Unfortunately outside his post game he is below average everywhere besides free throws.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 06:34 PM
problem isn't that all of us have differing opinions. The problem is that some people don't want anyone to have a differing opinion.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 06:41 PM
I expect Bulls fans to love Jimmy Buckets.

I expect Nets Fans to think they can beat Miami

I expect Knicks fans to love Shumps

What is interesting is how many people have to knock down their opponent to try and stand a little taller.

Would love to see what great things people could say about the teams they hate.

I don't like the Bulls, but I see how awesome Noah is. I would LOVE that guy on my team.

Not an Indy fan but would LOVE to have David West on my team

Nets? Nah, but KG should be a solid addition for them

Most "Compliments" are backhanded...like "Melo is a great scorer......on a mediocre team...." Silly.

TheLegend
08-05-2013, 07:12 PM
Why do u Knicks fans think ur teams deserve something?


Nets are much better than the Bulls, its not even close. Like ive said since the start Rose is basically LeBron in Cleveland really not talent no 2nd scoring option. Noah is nothing to deal with he is a Varejo on Cavs a role player.

Nets can't even beat a depleted bulls team. Noah is nothing the deal with? Then why did he destroyed the nets on their home court in game 7? Noah single handily beat the nets in game 7. And now they add KG and Pierce. That's cool but I wouldn't trust then over a 82 game season plus the playoff grind at this stage in their careers. Nets are fighting the Knicks for 4th and 5th seeds. They are clearly behind Chi, Miami, and Indy.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-05-2013, 07:43 PM
I expect Bulls fans to love Jimmy Buckets.

I expect Nets Fans to think they can beat Miami

I expect Knicks fans to love Shumps

What is interesting is how many people have to knock down their opponent to try and stand a little taller.

Would love to see what great things people could say about the teams they hate.

I don't like the Bulls, but I see how awesome Noah is. I would LOVE that guy on my team.

Not an Indy fan but would LOVE to have David West on my team

Nets? Nah, but KG should be a solid addition for them

Most "Compliments" are backhanded...like "Melo is a great scorer......on a mediocre team...." Silly.

Says the guy who ****ing started the thread.

BcEuAbRsS
08-05-2013, 07:47 PM
so defensive players are better than offensive players? based on what exactly?

I know I've seen it sig quoted that you were leaving if the Bulls beat the Nets these past playoffs? Are you not a man/woman of your word?

BcEuAbRsS
08-05-2013, 07:48 PM
Says the guy who ****ing started the thread.

:laugh2: :laugh2:

smiddy012
08-05-2013, 07:51 PM
I expect Bulls fans to love Jimmy Buckets.

I expect Nets Fans to think they can beat Miami

I expect Knicks fans to love Shumps

What is interesting is how many people have to knock down their opponent to try and stand a little taller.

Would love to see what great things people could say about the teams they hate.

I don't like the Bulls, but I see how awesome Noah is. I would LOVE that guy on my team.

Not an Indy fan but would LOVE to have David West on my team

Nets? Nah, but KG should be a solid addition for them

Most "Compliments" are backhanded...like "Melo is a great scorer......on a mediocre team...." Silly.

Loving JB is more rational that the other two "opinions"....
Just wanted to point that out :)

jp611
08-05-2013, 07:58 PM
I expect Bulls fans to love Jimmy Buckets.

I expect Nets Fans to think they can beat Miami

I expect Knicks fans to love Shumps

What is interesting is how many people have to knock down their opponent to try and stand a little taller.

Would love to see what great things people could say about the teams they hate.

I don't like the Bulls, but I see how awesome Noah is. I would LOVE that guy on my team.

Not an Indy fan but would LOVE to have David West on my team

Nets? Nah, but KG should be a solid addition for them

Most "Compliments" are backhanded...like "Melo is a great scorer......on a mediocre team...." Silly.

Here's the thing

I'm not knocking Shump at all, but when you call him a star in the making you're being a major homer... I'm not here making unrealistic claims about Jimmy Butler

jp611
08-05-2013, 08:00 PM
Says the guy who ****ing started the thread.

Irony at its finest

east fb knicks
08-05-2013, 08:54 PM
ok I get it the bulls will win the number 1 seed it don't matter that they have no bench no 2nd scoring option no spark off the bench no back up 5 oh yeah and the knicks suck even though we have a deep bench the reigning scoring champ a first team all nba defensive 5 and yes Tyson was voted over the great noah oh no :ohno: im so scared of the bulls and as far as the nets go :oldguy: nuff said I can't wait we will see you clowns in a couple months

east fb knicks
08-05-2013, 09:02 PM
Here's the thing

I'm not knocking Shump at all, but when you call him a star in the making you're being a major homer... I'm not here making unrealistic claims about Jimmy Butler

bro shump is better than butler butler was just a product of no rose and deng being hurt don't get me wrong he is a good young player but shump is a beast he didn't really start to show it until the playoffs besides melo shump was our best player in the playoffs how about you bulls fans watch the dude play before you assume he sucks also boston was interested in shump for rondo idk the full deal but yeah if he sucks how come we can get rondo for him while you guys couldn't flip boozer and butler for alridge and yes I think bargs will have a breakout year while loozer reverts back to his old self again lmao

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 09:04 PM
ok I get it the bulls will win the number 1 seed it don't matter that they have no bench no 2nd scoring option no spark off the bench no back up 5 oh yeah and the knicks suck even though we have a deep bench the reigning scoring champ a first team all nba defensive 5 and yes Tyson was voted over the great noah oh no :ohno: im so scared of the bulls and as far as the nets go :oldguy: nuff said I can't wait we will see you clowns in a couple months

edit: nevermind missread post.

TheLegend
08-05-2013, 09:06 PM
ok I get it the bulls will win the number 1 seed it don't matter that they have no bench no 2nd scoring option no spark off the bench no back up 5 oh yeah and the knicks suck even though we have a deep bench the reigning scoring champ a first team all nba defensive 5 and yes Tyson was voted over the great noah oh no :ohno: im so scared of the bulls and as far as the nets go :oldguy: nuff said I can't wait we will see you clowns in a couple months

Yup, the same Knicks team that had HCA and had no chance against the Pacers. SMH!

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 09:07 PM
Yup, the same Knicks team that had HCA and had no chance against the Pacers. SMH!

That guy is just trolling now.

TheLegend
08-05-2013, 09:10 PM
*head nod*.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 09:15 PM
bro shump is better than butler butler was just a product of no rose and deng being hurt don't get me wrong he is a good young player but shump is a beast he didn't really start to show it until the playoffs besides melo shump was our best player in the playoffs how about you bulls fans watch the dude play before you assume he sucks also boston was interested in shump for rondo idk the full deal but yeah if he sucks how come we can get rondo for him while you guys couldn't flip boozer and butler for alridge and yes I think bargs will have a breakout year while loozer reverts back to his old self again lmao

Besides the Shump for rondo, the knicks were trying to dump him for a declining steve nash.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 09:28 PM
I agree, and maybe if he had the terrific post game with good rebouding, or solid defense. Unfortunately outside his post game he is below average everywhere besides free throws.

He is a solid defender, Nets were much better with him on the floor then off defensivly. Lopez was a above average man to man defender and helped a lot protecting the rim with his shot blocking. You clearly dont know Lopez.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 09:32 PM
ok I get it the bulls will win the number 1 seed it don't matter that they have no bench no 2nd scoring option no spark off the bench no back up 5 oh yeah and the knicks suck even though we have a deep bench the reigning scoring champ a first team all nba defensive 5 and yes Tyson was voted over the great noah oh no :ohno: im so scared of the bulls and as far as the nets go :oldguy: nuff said I can't wait we will see you clowns in a couple months
Of course da Bulls have a bench.
Some of da bulls bench players are comparable to knicks starters lol. But u say they have no bench. Kirk pretty close to felton. Dunleavy pretty close to shump. Taj pretty close to bargs. Not much separation if any separation at all.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 09:37 PM
Of course da Bulls have a bench.
Some of da bulls bench players are comparable to knicks starters lol. But u say they have no bench. Kirk pretty close to felton. Dunleavy pretty close to shump. Taj pretty close to bargs. Not much separation if any separation at all.

Bulls lost most of their good bench players being Marco and Nate. They really do lack a bench.
Nazr,Kirk,Dunleavy isnt going to cut it. This lack of a bench means Thibs will play starters EVEN MORE minutes which may mean more unhealthy guys in the playoffs and guys who are tired. Bulls had a great bench in 2010-2011. But the owner doesnt want to win a championship it seems.

Ezekial
08-05-2013, 09:47 PM
Don't forget Taj Gibson.

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 09:59 PM
Lol. So do I go with the team that hasn't won the number one seed in the modern NBA or the one that has won it twice in the last 5 years.

Maybe it is the Nets year but you got to put up for anyone to believe your a strong contender.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 09:59 PM
Says the guy who ****ing started the thread.

people read what they want to read. My intention was not to rip into the Bulls, but to ask why they were getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed when so many questions abounded.

there are plenty of threads asking the same about the other EC contenders, no reason the bulls should not be discussed as well. After 400 replies, seems I was not alone.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 10:01 PM
Loving JB is more rational that the other two "opinions"....
Just wanted to point that out :)

And you want to know why this thread is so popular. Arrogant replies like this. you cant praise your own team without ripping into another. sad really.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 10:02 PM
Here's the thing

I'm not knocking Shump at all, but when you call him a star in the making you're being a major homer... I'm not here making unrealistic claims about Jimmy Butler

but I will. both are stars in the making. how is that for you?

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 10:07 PM
but I will. both are stars in the making. how is that for you?

stars in the making? no

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 10:12 PM
To me the Bulls are not a lock for the top two seeds since the Pacers have improved greatly the last year. Rose hasn't seen the great wall of Hibbert yet and Paul George has the range and slashing ability to cause the Bulls problems. Butler will help their defense but the combination of Hibbert, West, and Scola is better overall imo than what the Bulls have and if anything its a healthier overall unit which should lead to more wins.
The X factors though is Lance and Granger. Either one off the bench is deadly.

Lake_Show2416
08-05-2013, 10:23 PM
Bulls r overrated

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 10:33 PM
Bulls arent the only team overated, Pacers are being WAY overated aswell for a team with one all star who isnt even a go to guy

jp611
08-05-2013, 10:34 PM
:laugh:

jp611
08-05-2013, 10:35 PM
But not the Nets!

They have that GREAT head coach, he's practically been a HC since he became a player in this league.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 10:37 PM
But not the Nets!

They have that GREAT head coach, he's practically been a HC since he became a player in this league.

Besides fans on the internet nobody has doubted him, all players are embracing him aswell as professional writers. You cant bet against Kidd he has done well in nearly everything he has done.

jp611
08-05-2013, 10:37 PM
Besides fans on the internet nobody has doubted him, all players are embracing him aswell as professional writers. You cant bet against Kidd he has done well in nearly everything he has done.

He's got all those great assistant coaches around him, they turned down all HC positions so they could form the Super Coaching team

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 10:42 PM
He's got all those great assistant coaches around him, they turned down all HC positions so they could form the Super Coaching team

There are only 30 spots to coach in the NBA, a lot of teams are going with assistant coaches as their head coaches. Kidd is a PG also he knows where guys like the ball and what to run. I am not worried. Plus when you have a team like the Nets you dont need to coach a lot, the players know the game.

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 10:46 PM
Sure I will take the bait. The Pacers have 2 all stars Hibbert and George unless an all star apperance only last one year. Either way the Pacers have a defense which the nets don't.

jp611
08-05-2013, 10:47 PM
Pacer, all star appearances only last one year if it's another team he's talking about.

When he brings up the Nets, he brings up Kirilenko's lone all-star appearance from 03-04

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 10:48 PM
Sure I will take the bait. The Pacers have 2 all stars Hibbert and George unless an all star apperance only last one year. Either way the Pacers have a defense which the nets don't.

Hibbert was far from an all star this past year, can we say Rashard Lewis is an all star right now? Hibbert's FG% was really sad for a 7 feet 2 inch center.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 10:48 PM
Pacer, all star appearances only last one year if it's another team he's talking about.

When he brings up the Nets, he brings up Kirilenko's lone all-star appearance from 03-04

no i didnt?

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 10:52 PM
Sure but a fan with a iq above 60ty knows hibbert was hurt. Should I as a Pacer fan bring up Lopez stats in 11-12 or the center for the Heat that ripped his peck trying to dunk on Hibbert?

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 10:53 PM
people read what they want to read. My intention was not to rip into the Bulls, but to ask why they were getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed when so many questions abounded.

there are plenty of threads asking the same about the other EC contenders, no reason the bulls should not be discussed as well. After 400 replies, seems I was not alone.

You cant use the reply tally as an a confirmation of your viewpoint. More than half of the replies here are saying that the Bulls are adequately rated.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 11:00 PM
Bulls lost most of their good bench players being Marco and Nate. They really do lack a bench.
Nazr,Kirk,Dunleavy isnt going to cut it. This lack of a bench means Thibs will play starters EVEN MORE minutes which may mean more unhealthy guys in the playoffs and guys who are tired. Bulls had a great bench in 2010-2011. But the owner doesnt want to win a championship it seems.

Who cares about the bench so much. When the Bulls went to ECF they according to you had a really strong bench. Did that help them? No. So they focused on putting out the best starting 5 possible. Bulls lost nate and marco. the minutes werent here for nate as they already have 3 pgs. Dunleavy was chosen to replace Marco.
Thibs already said Noah and Deng were gonna play less minutes but according to you they will play more.

D-Block21-Chito
08-05-2013, 11:03 PM
Sure but a fan with a iq above 60ty knows hibbert was hurt. Should I as a Pacer fan bring up Lopez stats in 11-12 or the center for the Heat that ripped his peck trying to dunk on Hibbert?

Is this a serious question? Do you know how many games Lopez played that year?

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 11:03 PM
I will put it like this, to me Dwill is an all star when healthy and the same goes for Lopez. When Hibbert is healthy so is he and PG is one of the best all around players. Guys that are old and live off of repuatation I don't have much respect for. If the Nets are healthy they are deadly but theiir weakness is still their defense so I don't think they should get a lot of respect. JJ is a playoff choker but maybe PP and KG can correct that.

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 11:08 PM
Off the top of my head five. But to me he is still a top center when healthy. If you are going to knock Hibberts offense when hurt then I will point out his dominance on defense and when healthy his dominace on offense. A fan has to be idiot to look at a players production when hurt and make a defiantitive statement like he isn't a all star when hurt.

LOL! I suppose one year of misfortune defines a players production.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 11:11 PM
Off the top of my head five. But to me he is still a top center when healthy. If you are going to knock Hibberts offense when hurt then I will point out his dominance on defense and when healthy his dominace on offense. A fan has to be idiot to look at a players production when hurt and make a defiantitive statement like he isn't a all star when hurt.

If he is healthy enough to play and he is on the court that is all that matters. Stop making excuses.
Hibbert is maybe 8-13 range in terms of Centers.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-05-2013, 11:11 PM
people read what they want to read. My intention was not to rip into the Bulls, but to ask why they were getting a free pass as a 1-2 seed when so many questions abounded.

there are plenty of threads asking the same about the other EC contenders, no reason the bulls should not be discussed as well. After 400 replies, seems I was not alone.

Yes because pages upon pages of a Knicks-Nets baitfest prove your point.

Nobody ****ing gives them a free pass dude, its their opinion, get over it.

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 11:16 PM
There is no excuse which is the same with Dwill. He got his anlkes fix past the all star break and he played like an all star. I don't deny it but I am not hung up on stupid awards for one year. To me Dwill Rondo and Rose are the all stars of pgs in the East.

DoMeFavors
08-05-2013, 11:21 PM
There is no excuse which is the same with Dwill. He got his anlkes fix past the all star break and he played like an all star. I don't deny it but I am not hung up on stupid awards for one year. To me Dwill Rondo and Rose are the all stars of pgs in the East.

Well thats pretty obvious

Cubby
08-05-2013, 11:28 PM
Brooks Lopez is a better scorer, but Noah is a better passer (actually pretty darn good for a big man) better defender, and more versatile. He also can run the floor better, and anchors Chicago's whole defense. He's also a better leader, and a better rebounder than Brooks. Brooks is soft defensively, and soft on the boards. As much as I love his scoring he's a soft player. Straight up. Maybe having KG next to him toughens him up, but besides scoring Brooks really isn't good for anything else.

Brook actually has great foot work and a postgame that Noah doesnt have. A big man that has a great postgame and that can score is hard to find. There are so many rebounding and defensive centers in the league. Lopez is better to have.

There might be players like Noah, but name me any player that does it as well as Noah. I'll wait.

Also, Noah assists the offense in more ways than just posting up. Thibs sets him up in the high post and utilizes his passing to hit cutters and shooters. Not to mention his post game has gotten a bit better and he's no slouch from mid range either.

Noah is a better all around center.

All-In
08-05-2013, 11:29 PM
If he is healthy enough to play and he is on the court that is all that matters. Stop making excuses.
Hibbert is maybe 8-13 range in terms of Centers.

Name the 8-13 centers in front of him

Pacerlive
08-05-2013, 11:30 PM
Which is as obvious as a person claiming the Pacers have only 1 all star. Its a uninformed statement which is silly as me saying that the Nets don't have a all star pg when healthy. When healthy Hiibert is an all star especially in the playoffs.

east fb knicks
08-05-2013, 11:33 PM
hibbert is a monster :speechless: the pacers almost beat the heat nuff said

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 11:34 PM
Which is as obvious as a person claiming the Pacers have only 1 all star. Its a uninformed statement which is silly as me saying that the Nets don't have a all star pg when healthy. When healthy Hiibert is an all star especially in the playoffs.

U cant say its uninformed because it isnt. Sure when dwill plays well he is allstar caliber. No argument there. But he is not an allstar now. There were guys like Kyrie and Jrue who were chosen before him.

Bostonjorge
08-05-2013, 11:44 PM
Bulls and nets should trade Noah for Lopez. Lopez can help the scoring load and Noah helps the nets older guys on D.

smood999
08-05-2013, 11:46 PM
hibbert is a monster :speechless: the pacers almost beat the heat nuff said

I'll take the career long sample of Hibbert until he proves otherwise...he wouldn't be the first player to beast for a stretch or beast in the playoffs and then revert to their normal self. Hibbert is the difference for the Pacers. If he puts it together the Pacers go up another level. If he goes back to how he's always been, the Pacers will barely win 50 games. This thread should be about the Pacers and not the Bulls for that exact reason.

The Bulls are the Bulls, idk why people are acting like we don't know what they are or capable of. The only possible thing working against the Bulls is that the East is a lot better since the last time Rose was healthy. Other than that, there aren't many questions surrounding them as far as how good they can be. Whether Hibbert turned the corner during the playoffs is a much more interesting conversation and would determine whether the Pacers are being overrated or not.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 11:52 PM
You cant use the reply tally as an a confirmation of your viewpoint. More than half of the replies here are saying that the Bulls are adequately rated.o

Oh indeed I can.......And I did.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 11:54 PM
Off the top of my head five. But to me he is still a top center when healthy. If you are going to knock Hibberts offense when hurt then I will point out his dominance on defense and when healthy his dominace on offense. A fan has to be idiot to look at a players production when hurt and make a defiantitive statement like he isn't a all star when hurt.

LOL! I suppose one year of misfortune defines a players production.

Careful, because you are saying one year of fortune for Hibbert defines him.

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 11:56 PM
Yes because pages upon pages of a Knicks-Nets baitfest prove your point.

Nobody ****ing gives them a free pass dude, its their opinion, get over it.

I never type in anger tones. When you do, you show weakness. Why are you so angry? No one is insulting you.

bearadonisdna
08-05-2013, 11:59 PM
o

Oh indeed I can.......And I did.


You're gonna disregard everyone who disagreed that the Bulls are unfairly getting a free pass and use their replies as a justification that you were right?

Captain Moroni
08-05-2013, 11:59 PM
Bulls and nets should trade Noah for Lopez. Lopez can help the scoring load and Noah helps the nets older guys on D.

Noah is 10 times more valuable then
lopez. Noah is why the bulls win.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:01 AM
You're gonna disregard everyone who disagreed that the Bulls are unfairly getting a free pass and use their replies as a justification that you were right?

never said I was right. Am I?
this is an opinionated thread. My opinion means nothing. Niether does yours. Just guessing based on the info we have. relax, no one is keeping score here.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:04 AM
people need to stop comparing players in a bubble.

how the individual parts fit together is more important than the parts themselves.

thibs puts the pieces together better than most, that is why the bulls win.

most years the bulls talent level is less than other teams that finish behind them.

DoMeFavors
08-06-2013, 12:06 AM
Bulls and nets should trade Noah for Lopez. Lopez can help the scoring load and Noah helps the nets older guys on D.

Sure Lopez for Noah and Rose that is the only way I do that trade

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:06 AM
bargnani for example could be 10 times more valuable to NYK than he was to the Raptors. only time will tell.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-06-2013, 12:07 AM
I never type in anger tones. When you do, you show weakness. Why are you so angry? No one is insulting you.

No you just make threads about other teams to hide your insecurity about your own, while presenting your jealousy towards said team.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:10 AM
Rose being injured last year threw the parts off. players had to adjust their slot roles to compensate.
this is why you dont expect players to match their stats from last year if Rose is healthy all year long and just as productive as pre-surgery

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:13 AM
No you just make threads about other teams to hide your insecurity about your own, while presenting your jealousy towards said team.

I see how you can see it that way, but in all fairness, no one had questioned the bulls and it was time for some honest discussion. You act as if the bulls should be exempt from scrutiny.
I dont know why you are so insecure about opinions. They mean nothing.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:14 AM
No you just make threads about other teams to hide your insecurity about your own, while presenting your jealousy towards said team.

Why do you fail to comment on posts where I compliment the bulls?

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:16 AM
Last year even without Rose, Bulls fans had them Ranked higher than BKN, NY, and Indy. Last year they were proven wrong.
Why can't they be wrong again?

Pierzynski4Prez
08-06-2013, 12:18 AM
I see how you can see it that way, but in all fairness, no one had questioned the bulls and it was time for some honest discussion. You act as if the bulls should be exempt from scrutiny.
I dont know why you are so insecure about opinions. They mean nothing.

If i may ask, why does it bother you that the Bulls haven't been "scrutinized" enough yet to meet your standards? Scrutinize all you want then if it makes you feel better about your team. Make a Pacers thread while at it too, since most people's opinion is that they are a top 3 seed too.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-06-2013, 12:22 AM
Why do you fail to comment on posts where I compliment the bulls?

Because I'm responding to when you've quoted me. Why compliment the Bulls when you were the one who made a thread to make people think they are over rated? I've only seen you compliment them when it has to do with Bulls-Nets, but I have ignored most of the baiting in here so I may have missed some.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-06-2013, 12:23 AM
Last year even without Rose, Bulls fans had them Ranked higher than BKN, NY, and Indy. Last year they were proven wrong.
Why can't they be wrong again?

Did you find like 5 bulls posters out of hundreds who said that, therefore we all said that? And was that when Rose was speculated to be back in January?

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:52 AM
[QUOTE=Pierzynski4Prez;26834417]If i may ask, why does it bother you that the Bulls haven't been "scrutinized" enough yet to meet your standards? Scrutinize all you want then if it makes you feel better about your team. Make a Pacers thread while at it too, since most people's opinion is that they are a top 3 seed too.[/QUOT

You are looking into this too much

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 12:54 AM
Because I'm responding to when you've quoted me. Why compliment the Bulls when you were the one who made a thread to make people think they are over rated? I've only seen you compliment them when it has to do with Bulls-Nets, but I have ignored most of the baiting in here so I may have missed some.

Did you somehow get your feelings hurt?

chitownbulls
08-06-2013, 03:23 AM
So for those people saying the Bulls have less depth than 2010-11..that really isn't true. We went from Watson, Brewer, Korver, Gibson, and Asik to Hinrich, Snell, Dunleavy, Gibson, Mohammed. Hinrich and Dunleavy are clear improvements over their counterparts, and Snell has the potential to be much greater than Brewer because of his length and ability to make shots. The only player we haven't upgraded much from was Asik, who only averaged about 14 minutes a game anyway, with an unhealthy Noah. With a healthy Noah and Gibson, I doubt he would've played more than 12 minutes a game.

Along with the upgraded bench, our starting lineup has improvement just from the addition of Jimmy Butler over Keith Bogans, and the improvements of Noah. Not to mention the improvements Coach Thibs has made himself in his coaching tactics, and our much improved three point shooting.

Seriously this team has such a combination of players. We have a former MVP, 2 All stars, a borderline/former all star, a future all star and some great pieces on the bench. There is no doubt in my mind we have the depth, defense and talent to produce a 60 win season.

bearadonisdna
08-06-2013, 05:17 AM
I see how you can see it that way, but in all fairness, no one had questioned the bulls and it was time for some honest discussion. You act as if the bulls should be exempt from scrutiny.
I dont know why you are so insecure about opinions. They mean nothing.

Most of the scrutiny towards the bulls in thread were from unintelligent posters with uintelligent posts. This quest or desire to draw scrutiny to the bulls is laymans terms for trolling?

smiddy012
08-06-2013, 07:26 AM
This thread to me is a bunch of Nets and Knicks fans bummed out that they're a tier below Chicago and Indy.

Anyway anyone wants to spin it, this is the Bull's best starting 5 since MJ left. It's not even up for debate.

MyDRoseLikeDeng
08-06-2013, 07:47 AM
Anybody seriously saying the Bulls are overrated is in for a huge surprise this season(barring injuries of course.) like smiddy said, this is the Bulls best starting lineup since MJ left, and the bench is very much on par with the bench of 2010-2011 season. Wait and see

Pierzynski4Prez
08-06-2013, 08:20 AM
Did you somehow get your feelings hurt?

Nope. Im just trying to help you out here man. Why are you so jealous that people view the Bulls as being better than the Knicks? I mean you've stated your case over and over as to why the Knicks improved, but they still think the Bulls are better. Must be tough on you.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 08:43 AM
U cant say its uninformed because it isnt. Sure when dwill plays well he is allstar caliber. No argument there. But he is not an allstar now. There were guys like Kyrie and Jrue who were chosen before him.

I am saying they can and will put up all star performances on both sides of the floor. Getting the vote is a tad bit naive since no emphasis gets put on centers with the voting. Is Hibbert a perennial all star? Not yet but he is fully capable of that when healthy.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 08:52 AM
Nope. Im just trying to help you out here man. Why are you so jealous that people view the Bulls as being better than the Knicks? I mean you've stated your case over and over as to why the Knicks improved, but they still think the Bulls are better. Must be tough on you.

I think your on to something. Outside of Knick fans who has them in the top 3? They are probably a fifth seed behind the Nets.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 09:07 AM
I am saying they can and will put up all star performances on both sides of the floor. Getting the vote is a tad bit naive since no emphasis gets put on centers with the voting. Is Hibbert a perennial all star? Not yet but he is fully capable of that when healthy.

do you think it's simply a coincidence that the year Hibbert became an all-star center, the league decided not to put the center position on future ballots? He was basically selected by default, and the league recognized that he wasn't all-star caliber.

Muttman73
08-06-2013, 09:11 AM
The Bulls will be good, they have talent and a very good coach. How things play out remain to be seen.
I think they take as much crap as they receive accolades...waiting for the season.

nycericanguy
08-06-2013, 09:16 AM
I think your on to something. Outside of Knick fans who has them in the top 3? They are probably a fifth seed behind the Nets.

Yea just like they were a 7-8th seed last year...lol

but really it doesn't even matter. Outside of MIA the next 4 spots are wide open and could go either way. All 4 of those teams got better... the question is will IND & BK make up the 5 game gap between them and NY? And is Rose enough to close a 10 game gap?

I will say when CHI won 60 games the east was MUCH weaker, and they had Asik & Korver on the bench. Will be interesting to see what they do now.

SteBO
08-06-2013, 09:18 AM
Considering this same Bulls core had finished #1 in the Eastern conference on two seperate occasions, I don't see why it's blasphemous to think they can't finish a top 2 seed if not the first overall seed in the east. At least they've shown me and others that they can do it, as opposed to Brooklyn who people around here tout as the bonafide 2nd best and with little proof. If anything, the Bulls are rated just fine.......

Pierzynski4Prez
08-06-2013, 10:15 AM
Considering this same Bulls core had finished #1 in the Eastern conference on two seperate occasions, I don't see why it's blasphemous to think they can't finish a top 2 seed if not the first overall seed in the east. At least they've shown me and others that they can do it, as opposed to Brooklyn who people around here tout as the bonafide 2nd best and with little proof. If anything, the Bulls are rated just fine.......

Well said, this seems to be the consensus of the most logical posters in the thread here.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 10:21 AM
Considering this same Bulls core had finished #1 in the Eastern conference on two seperate occasions, I don't see why it's blasphemous to think they can't finish a top 2 seed if not the first overall seed in the east. At least they've shown me and others that they can do it, as opposed to Brooklyn who people around here tout as the bonafide 2nd best and with little proof. If anything, the Bulls are rated just fine.......

I think by saying "same core" you ignore the fact that Rose must prove he can still play the entire season at the same MVP level he attained before.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 10:21 AM
Well said, this seems to be the consensus of the most logical posters in the thread here.

So now the definition of the word logical means people who agree with your opinion.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 10:25 AM
Yea just like they were a 7-8th seed last year...lol

but really it doesn't even matter. Outside of MIA the next 4 spots are wide open and could go either way. All 4 of those teams got better... the question is will IND & BK make up the 5 game gap between them and NY? And is Rose enough to close a 10 game gap?


I will say when CHI won 60 games the east was MUCH weaker, and they had Asik & Korver on the bench. Will be interesting to see what they do now.

This is the point some seem to be missing. It's not about how improved one team happened to get by receiving an injured player back.

The entire top of the conference has improved vastly and is being ignored.

this conference is 5-6 deep at the top which will make for some awesome basketball.

Sure the Bulls could finish 1-2. They could just as easily finish 5.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 10:27 AM
The Bulls will be good, they have talent and a very good coach. How things play out remain to be seen.
I think they take as much crap as they receive accolades...waiting for the season.

I don't see it as taking "crap" I see it as analyzing strengths and weaknesses.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 10:28 AM
do you think it's simply a coincidence that the year Hibbert became an all-star center, the league decided not to put the center position on future ballots? He was basically selected by default, and the league recognized that he wasn't all-star caliber.

Hibbert had a good solid year. He is a piece of the puzzle of a very solid squad.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 10:29 AM
I think your on to something. Outside of Knick fans who has them in the top 3? They are probably a fifth seed behind the Nets.

could very well be. Could also finish 1-2. Wewill know when March rolls around. I can't wait for the season to start.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 10:31 AM
Anybody seriously saying the Bulls are overrated is in for a huge surprise this season(barring injuries of course.) like smiddy said, this is the Bulls best starting lineup since MJ left, and the bench is very much on par with the bench of 2010-2011 season. Wait and see

Yo could be right. That is why they play the games on the court and not on paper

I Rock Shaqs
08-06-2013, 10:35 AM
Nope. Im just trying to help you out here man. Why are you so jealous that people view the Bulls as being better than the Knicks? I mean you've stated your case over and over as to why the Knicks improved, but they still think the Bulls are better. Must be tough on you.

How dare you?!? HOW DARE YOU?!?!? Not saying the Knicks will be better than every team in the entire league is just pure trolling at it's finest.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 10:37 AM
Hibbert had a good solid year. He is a piece of the puzzle of a very solid squad.

That's fine and dandy, but the fact remains that the only reason he was selected for the all-star game was because the coaches were forced to pick a center. and the next off-season, they changed it to 'front court players'.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2012/10/25/3553726/pacers-links-roy-hibbert-last-of-the-nba-all-star-centers


The NBA recently announced changes to the All-Star ballot that will eliminate the center position in an effort to open spots for more deserving players as the center pool of talent continues to shrink.

Roy Hibbert was not voted in last season but earned his way onto the Eastern Conference All-Star team as a reserve. But he did receive preferential treatment since the coaches selecting the reserves had include at least one additional center, as Chris Bernucca explains.


According to a league spokesman, coaches will have the same flexibility in selecting reserves.

Previously, coaches - in addition to not selecting any of their own players - were required to choose two guards, two forwards, a center and two players regardless of position. Now they will choose two guards, three frontcourt players and two other players.
Why not just wipe out all of the positions? The coaches choosing the reserves can adjust to include the types of players they need if the starters selected don't include enough bigs or guards.

SteBO
08-06-2013, 10:43 AM
I think by saying "same core" you ignore the fact that Rose must prove he can still play the entire season at the same MVP level he attained before.
Not ignoring at all actually. In fact, by mentioning "the same MVP level", you're ignoring the year following when he was actually beat up a bit; meanwhile the Bulls still managed 62 wins. The Bulls are rated where they deserve to be rated....why last year should even count for anything baffles me. Did you see the lineups Chicago threw out there, during the playoffs especially? It's amazing they actually took a game off of Miami on the road. A healthy Bulls squad has proven to be better than many think of them, which is not that highly (as evidenced by this thread).

effen5
08-06-2013, 10:58 AM
This is the point some seem to be missing. It's not about how improved one team happened to get by receiving an injured player back.

The entire top of the conference has improved vastly and is being ignored.

this conference is 5-6 deep at the top which will make for some awesome basketball.

Sure the Bulls could finish 1-2. They could just as easily finish 5.

They finished 5 last year while throwing our bench as starters....

effen5
08-06-2013, 10:58 AM
Not ignoring at all actually. In fact, by mentioning "the same MVP level", you're ignoring the year following when he was actually beat up a bit; meanwhile the Bulls still managed 62 wins. The Bulls are rated where they deserve to be rated....why last year should even count for anything baffles me. Did you see the lineups Chicago threw out there, during the playoffs especially? It's amazing they actually took a game off of Miami on the road. A healthy Bulls squad has proven to be better than many think of them, which is not that highly (as evidenced by this thread).

Completely agree with this.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 11:12 AM
How dare you?!? HOW DARE YOU?!?!? Not saying the Knicks will be better than every team in the entire league is just pure trolling at it's finest.

I'm not even saying that.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 11:13 AM
That's fine and dandy, but the fact remains that the only reason he was selected for the all-star game was because the coaches were forced to pick a center. and the next off-season, they changed it to 'front court players'.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2012/10/25/3553726/pacers-links-roy-hibbert-last-of-the-nba-all-star-centers

you know I'm not bashing on Hibbert right?

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 11:17 AM
I'm not even saying that.

from my reading your claim is the following:
- team x had the best record in the entire league 2 out of the last 3 years
- team x had their best player and former league MVP miss the entire season last year, and placed 5th in the east.
- team x is getting their MVP back this year, but being a top 2 seed in the east (let alone the league) is a stretch...

okay..

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 11:17 AM
Not ignoring at all actually. In fact, by mentioning "the same MVP level", you're ignoring the year following when he was actually beat up a bit; meanwhile the Bulls still managed 62 wins. The Bulls are rated where they deserve to be rated....why last year should even count for anything baffles me. Did you see the lineups Chicago threw out there, during the playoffs especially? It's amazing they actually took a game off of Miami on the road. A healthy Bulls squad has proven to be better than many think of them, which is not that highly (as evidenced by this thread).

I understand what you are saying, I am saying something else.

beaten up a bit is different than having the same ability you had before a major knee injury put you out a year.

Even Greg Oden is saying he is finally healthy, fact is No one knows what Rose will be like when he gets back.

If he is 100% te Bulls could win 55 games in a much tougher EC, if he is 75% of who he was over the course of the season, there is not alot of PG talent behind him on the bench.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 11:18 AM
you know I'm not bashing on Hibbert right?

you know i kind of am though, right?

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 11:21 AM
I understand what you are saying, I am saying something else.

beaten up a bit is different than having the same ability you had before a major knee injury put you out a year.

Even Greg Oden is saying he is finally healthy, fact is No one knows what Rose will be like when he gets back.

If he is 100% te Bulls could win 55 games in a much tougher EC, if he is 75% of who he was over the course of the season, there is not alot of PG talent behind him on the bench.

there are no reports saying that he's not going to have his explosiveness and there have been set-backs in his rehab. there's no reason to think that he should not be 100% at the start of the season. it's not like this is his 8 - 10th month after surgery. he's had plenty of time to get his body and mind right...

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 11:21 AM
from my reading your claim is the following:
- team x had the best record in the entire league 2 out of the last 3 years
- team x had their best player and former league MVP miss the entire season last year, and placed 5th in the east.
- team x is getting their MVP back this year, but being a top 2 seed in the east (let alone the league) is a stretch...

okay..

You leave out the pivotal point of the argument . You mention best player, you mention FORMER MVP but fail to compensate for IF he is not 100% healthy and stays that way.

This is the same guy who doctors cleared in FEB and he sat out the playoffs because his head was screwed up. Why should anyone assume he will just be FINE now?

If you weren't a bulls fan you would be asking the same questions.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 11:22 AM
you know i kind of am though, right?

Hibbert had a great year.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 11:24 AM
there are no reports saying that he's not going to have his explosiveness and there have been set-backs in his rehab. there's no reason to think that he should not be 100% at the start of the season. it's not like this is his 8 - 10th month after surgery. he's had plenty of time to get his body and mind right...

But so much is riding on that. You have to look at it from both sides. If this was melo we were talking about you would be saying the same thing I am.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 11:27 AM
They finished 5 last year while throwing our bench as starters....

Did you have Indy ranked high last year?
Did You have NYK ranked high last year?
Did you have BKN ranked high last year?

This is not 2010, 2011, or 2012 anymore. Those three teams sucked back then. They dont suck anymore. As a matter of fact all three are pretty dang solid.

Where is the accounting for this difference.

Stop thinking its 2011 and Drose is the consensus pick for MVP.

Right now pray the guy makes it through Thanksgiving on a surgically repaired knee.

SteBO
08-06-2013, 11:29 AM
I understand what you are saying, I am saying something else.

beaten up a bit is different than having the same ability you had before a major knee injury put you out a year.

Even Greg Oden is saying he is finally healthy, fact is No one knows what Rose will be like when he gets back.

If he is 100% te Bulls could win 55 games in a much tougher EC, if he is 75% of who he was over the course of the season, there is not alot of PG talent behind him on the bench.
People around the Bulls organization have said that Rose has been healthy for a good while now. There's no doubt in my mind that last year post All-Star break was a case of him mentally not being ready yet. With a full offseason and training camp now, I'm not sure that won't be as big an issue as it would've been had come back earlier. He has something to prove now, and he's a hard worker, so he'll be fine in my honest opinion. I hear ya on the Bulls' PG depth chart, but Kirk Hinrich isn't a slouch. As a backup, he's pretty good and even better than what they had the two years they held the best record (CJ Watson).....Marcus Teague is their 3rd string PG. BKN, IND, and NY don't have great PG depth. Miami neither to be honest....

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 11:30 AM
Hibbert had a great year.

not really... he had a good series against miami. hardly a great year..

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 11:39 AM
But so much is riding on that. You have to look at it from both sides. If this was melo we were talking about you would be saying the same thing I am.

you're correct in one aspect. a lot is riding on him coming back the same player he was before the injury. however, where we dissent is when we talk about him not being said player. i believe he didn't feel his knee was ready to go back onto the court last year. i understand the doctors cleared him to play, and believe me, i wanted him to play, but if he felt it was too soon (which leads to hesitant/cautious play, increasing the risk of re-injury) then he shouldn't have played. giving another full off season, and the longest ACL recovery on record for a professional athlete, i don't think he can realistically ever think it's too soon, or he isn't completely healed. I believe he'll come back with his aggression, and will have little to no hesitation regarding his knee.

and you never know, if rose comes back looking like his old self, he may have set a new recipe for knee ligament recovery. you could see more people taking a full year off going forward. who knows.

kozelkid
08-06-2013, 11:45 AM
They finished 5 last year while throwing our bench as starters....

Did you have Indy ranked high last year?
Did You have NYK ranked high last year?
Did you have BKN ranked high last year?

This is not 2010, 2011, or 2012 anymore. Those three teams sucked back then. They dont suck anymore. As a matter of fact all three are pretty dang solid.

Where is the accounting for this difference.

Stop thinking its 2011 and Drose is the consensus pick for MVP.

Right now pray the guy makes it through Thanksgiving on a surgically repaired knee.

And before that, Orlando and Boston were just as good as the teams you just listened if not better so your point is rather moot.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 11:49 AM
Did you have Indy ranked high last year?
Did You have NYK ranked high last year?
Did you have BKN ranked high last year?

This is not 2010, 2011, or 2012 anymore. Those three teams sucked back then. They dont suck anymore. As a matter of fact all three are pretty dang solid.

Where is the accounting for this difference.

Stop thinking its 2011 and Drose is the consensus pick for MVP.

Right now pray the guy makes it through Thanksgiving on a surgically repaired knee.

are you praying shump makes it through thanksgiving? apparently, you better..

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 11:58 AM
do you think it's simply a coincidence that the year Hibbert became an all-star center, the league decided not to put the center position on future ballots? He was basically selected by default, and the league recognized that he wasn't all-star caliber.

First of all he was selected by the coaches so by defualt I think you mean coaches recognized his impact which is more important than a stupid fan vote.

The all star selections says alot less about a player IMO becuase its simply another way the NBA suckers people into watching bad basketball so they can get more TV revenue and sponsorships. Bad basketball = more run and gun with no defense = more fans watching. Getting rid of the Center selection has more to do with money than anything else.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 12:06 PM
First of all he was selected by the coaches so by defualt I think you mean coaches recognized his impact which is more important than a stupid fan vote.

Actually, it was because the coaches were forced to pick a center position... i've already referenced it, but again:

http://www.indycornrows.com/2012/10/25/3553726/pacers-links-roy-hibbert-last-of-the-nba-all-star-centers


The NBA recently announced changes to the All-Star ballot that will eliminate the center position in an effort to open spots for more deserving players as the center pool of talent continues to shrink.

Roy Hibbert was not voted in last season but earned his way onto the Eastern Conference All-Star team as a reserve. But he did receive preferential treatment since the coaches selecting the reserves had include at least one additional center, as Chris Bernucca explains.


According to a league spokesman, coaches will have the same flexibility in selecting reserves.

Previously, coaches - in addition to not selecting any of their own players - were required to choose two guards, two forwards, a center and two players regardless of position. Now they will choose two guards, three frontcourt players and two other players.
Why not just wipe out all of the positions? The coaches choosing the reserves can adjust to include the types of players they need if the starters selected don't include enough bigs or guards.



The all star selections says alot less about a player IMO becuase its simply another way the NBA suckers people into watching bad basketball so they can get more TV revenue and sponsorships. Bad basketball = more run and gun with no defense = more fans watching. Getting rid of the Center selection has more to do with money than anything else.

again, no. it had to do with the deteriorating talent in the center position. the fact that there were more PF that were far better, but couldn't be selected because of the position requirement.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 12:06 PM
not really... he had a good series against miami. hardly a great year..
:eyebrow:
There is no question he had a great year defensively. Offensively he wasn't right for over half the season but that still doesn't take away from the fact that he anchored the best NBA defense last year and the best rebounding team in the NBA as well.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 12:09 PM
Actually, it was because the coaches were forced to pick a center position... i've already referenced it, but again:

http://www.indycornrows.com/2012/10/25/3553726/pacers-links-roy-hibbert-last-of-the-nba-all-star-centers






again, no. it had to do with the deteriorating talent in the center position. the fact that there were more PF that were far better, but couldn't be selected because of the position requirement.
The all star game is about making money and thats why they changed it. No one wants to see a lumbering 7 footer play in a run and gun game. That doesn't generate viewership and TV revenue.

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 12:17 PM
:eyebrow:
There is no question he had a great year defensively. Offensively he wasn't right for over half the season but that still doesn't take away from the fact that he anchored the best NBA defense last year and the best rebounding team in the NBA as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html

he had solid defensive year. but it was his worst year in the league offensively, except for the heat series, where he played well...

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 12:18 PM
FWIW David Aldridge credits the rule change to Tim Duncan and the explanation from the league is here.


For years, for example, the Spurs have listed Tim Duncan as a power forward, even though everyone on earth knew he was their starting center. And so when it came to All-Star balloting, Duncan would take up a forward spot in a very crowded field of Western Conference stars instead of his logical spot in the middle. This was good for Duncan, who surely would have made his 13 All-Star teams anyway, but it often cost another forward a shot.

The league decided to make the change after the NBA's Competition Committee agreed to the move at its meeting last month, VP of Basketball Operations Stu Jackson said Tuesday evening.

"It makes sense," Jackson said. "It made sense to our Competition Committee. Having a center is the only specific position that was singled out on the ballot. It just seemed a little outdated and didn't represent the way our game has evolved. By the same token, it also affords the same opportunity, if you have two good centers in a given year, pick 'em both. They both can be selected. Which is impossible right now."

That would be good news for players like Boston's Kevin Garnett and Miami's Chris Bosh, nominal forwards who are now playing center for their respective teams. Under the old rules, Garnett and Bosh would have been in the center category with the likes of Philadelphia's Andrew Bynum, Atlanta's Al Horford and Indiana's Roy Hibbert. Now, any of them can be selected as a "frontcourt" player. http://www.nba.com/2012/news/10/23/all-star-centers-ballot/index.html

Kobe2324
08-06-2013, 12:19 PM
i think think they are 1-3 seed, if healthy they could be the best team in the east and that's saying a lot with miami and revamped nets in the same conf, but yes a lot will depend on health as it does for a lot of teams

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 12:21 PM
The all star game is about making money and thats why they changed it. No one wants to see a lumbering 7 footer play in a run and gun game. That doesn't generate viewership and TV revenue.

again, that's simply your opinion. shaq, dwight, and yao have done very well in generating viewers for the all-star game. the problem is, mandating that two centers being chosen in each convference has led to sub-par selections simply because they filled the criteria. it has everything to do with the center talent dwindling. perhaps it was just bad timing, but hibbert's selection (based more on his position, rather than his overwhelming all-star play) seemed to be when the league had enough and changed the rule...

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 12:24 PM
FWIW David Aldridge credits the rule change to Tim Duncan and the explanation from the league is here.

that seems more like an example, hardly credit. but i guess if you want to read it that way, go ahead. stu-jackson made no specific player reference in the decision.

Pacerlive
08-06-2013, 12:38 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html

he had solid defensive year. but it was his worst year in the league offensively, except for the heat series, where he played well...

IF you want to boil this down to a bad offensive year but a good Heat series than I can prove you wrong.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/3436/roy-hibbert

Pre vs post all star stats show that he was hurt and got better hence his FG% going from
.414% to above 50% and even his FT% jumping 10% and his points going from 10 ppg to 15.8 ppg.

To suggest he just turned it on in the Heat series is wrong.

KnickaBocka.44
08-06-2013, 12:44 PM
are you praying shump makes it through thanksgiving? apparently, you better..

The Knicks don't depend on Shump the way the Bulls depend on Rose, huge difference.

KnickaBocka.44
08-06-2013, 12:45 PM
And before that, Orlando and Boston were just as good as the teams you just listened if not better so your point is rather moot.

Not quite moot. There's still 5 teams instead of 4 competing at the top so it's easy to see that it's more competitive.

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 01:03 PM
And before that, Orlando and Boston were just as good as the teams you just listened if not better so your point is rather moot.

Boston yes, Orlando not so much

Captain Moroni
08-06-2013, 01:04 PM
are you praying shump makes it through thanksgiving? apparently, you better..

Are you comparing Drose to Shumpert? I am not

Shmontaine
08-06-2013, 01:06 PM
IF you want to boil this down to a bad offensive year but a good Heat series than I can prove you wrong.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/3436/roy-hibbert

Pre vs post all star stats show that he was hurt and got better hence his FG% going from
.414% to above 50% and even his FT% jumping 10% and his points going from 10 ppg to 15.8 ppg.

To suggest he just turned it on in the Heat series is wrong.

I'll admit, i didn't know those numbers, so i was wrong in my statement..

but it does raise more questions for me.

do you know what his injury was? every other category, minus shooting, is nearly identical pre and post all star..