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Mile High Champ
08-02-2013, 12:35 AM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 6th year I have done this on PSD and it always brings some great discussion and debate. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron James and the Miami Heat are back to back NBA champions after an exciting 7 game series win over the Spurs. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 5 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

Due to some people complaining that the rule was not written for the PG poll; in order to be eligible for these rankings, players must of played in 10 or more games last season. Thank you.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2012 Off-Season PSD SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Andre Iguodala
6) Rudy Gay
7) Luol Deng
8) Danny Granger
9) Danilo Gallinari
10) Nicolas Batum

2011 Off-Season Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Andre Iguodala
6) Danny Granger
7) Luol Deng
8) Rudy Gay
9) Gerald Wallace
10) Danilo Gallinari

2010 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Gerald Wallace
7) Andre Iguodala
8) Rudy Gay
9) Luol Deng
10) Ron Artest

2009 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

2008 Off-Season SF rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 12:39 AM
Gonna go Igoudala. The list takes a huge dip after #3. Now it's all role players.

Igoudala at #3 and Gay at #4.

Mile High Champ
08-02-2013, 12:43 AM
Update: Granger has been removed from the poll as he failed to play in 10 or more games last year while some players have also been removed from the poll due to their position being in question.

Mods Please Sticky

GREATNESS ONE
08-02-2013, 12:47 AM
Give me Iggy.

jimm120
08-02-2013, 12:52 AM
Iggy, imo, took a few steps back last year. He's not the dominant player he was. SO yeah, he'll end up at #4 or #5 but man...its much worse than years past.

JasonJohnHorn
08-02-2013, 12:57 AM
Several great options here, but I had to go with Deng. He meant SO much to the Bulls this year. His defense, his rebounding. He isn't the playmaker that Iggy is, but he also didn't $#!T the bed from the free throw line like Iggy did this year. How do you go from shooting 82% one year to shot 54%? WTF?!?!?!?

I love them both, and I wouldn't argue with anybody who chose Iggy, but for me, I gotta go with Deng this year.

bgdreton
08-02-2013, 01:01 AM
Where is harrison barnes should at least be on the poll

SugeKnight
08-02-2013, 02:04 AM
Iggy, he turned a mediocre defense into one of the best in the NBA and took a team that's always been a 7th seed to a 3 seed. Not saying he gets all the credit, but he was a major factor. The next best player is deng, but IMO iggy is better on both ends of the floor than him.

Guppyfighter
08-02-2013, 02:30 AM
Give me Paul Pierce, than AK47, than Parsons, than Iggy.

rockets-fan
08-02-2013, 02:33 AM
Parsons

rockets-fan
08-02-2013, 02:33 AM
Where's Barnes btw???

SugeKnight
08-02-2013, 03:43 AM
Give me Paul Pierce, than AK47, than Parsons, than Iggy.

lol

Sportfan
08-02-2013, 04:47 AM
Iggy will win this one and i am prepared for the incoming bulls rush to get deng in the top 5 for the next poll

Would love to see what Deng does that's so much better than Kirilenko

Kirilenko had an 18 PER, 590 TS% a better AST and rebounding %, better WS/48, better offensive and defensive RAPM and PPP.

Literally the only thing Deng has on AK last year Was minutes. Deng is a workhorse and plays more minutes than pretty Much anyone in the league.

Oh and MINNY was the most injured team last season before someone brings up the Deng had to be the guy brcause of injured Rose argument

TrueFan420
08-02-2013, 04:56 AM
Iggy... Dude transformed Denver's d. While many are knocking his regular season stats (13 ppg 5 asg 5 rpg 1.7 spg) his playoff stats were fantastic (18 ppg 6 apg 8 rpg 2 spg). His shooting % went up as well.

To those saying deng... Dude stats dropped hard in the playoffs (13.8 ppg 7.6 rpg 3.8 apg 1 spg). And look it up dude shot under 1% from 3.

JOhnnyTHaJet
08-02-2013, 06:15 AM
I think Pierce has a legit case here at 4, he should be a top 5 guy even though I get the feeling Deng will edge him out.

Mile High Champ
08-02-2013, 08:10 AM
I can certainly add Barnes but he was pretty awful overall last season. Yes he has the glamour and the name many other guys don't have on this list of options but man was he just bad with that 11 PER and 0.65 WS/48. He has no business getting a single vote in the top 10.

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 09:13 AM
I can certainly add Barnes but he was pretty awful overall last season. Yes he has the glamour and the name many other guys don't have on this list of options but man was he just bad with that 11 PER and 0.65 WS/48. He has no business getting a single vote in the top 10.

Shawn Marion and Thaddeous Young had better PER than Kirilenko, Leonard, Batum, Gay, Parsons, Butler, Galinarri, Deng and Smth....does that mean Marion and Young are better than those guys?

1-800-STFU
08-02-2013, 09:30 AM
Luol DENG

Mile High Champ
08-02-2013, 09:35 AM
Shawn Marion and Thaddeous Young had better PER than Kirilenko, Leonard, Batum, Gay, Parsons, Butler, Galinarri, Deng and Smth....does that mean Marion and Young are better than those guys?

Never said PER was everything did I? Barnes however just has incredibly underwhelming advanced statistics. That WS/48 is horrendous.

ManRam
08-02-2013, 09:52 AM
Where's Barnes btw???

Not on the poll because he was terrible last year sans a few playoff games :shrug:

NYKnickFanatic
08-02-2013, 10:03 AM
EDIT: Nvm.

Kashmir13579
08-02-2013, 10:07 AM
Deng

Knicks21
08-02-2013, 10:26 AM
Iggy here, list takes a big dip here.

nycericanguy
08-02-2013, 10:27 AM
I voted Iggy but I'm not even convinced.

Most DEN fans will tell you Iggy wasn't even the best SF on his own team... Gallo was.

Oefarmy2005
08-02-2013, 10:43 AM
Voted for Iggy, even though considering all around game, Batum may have been the right pick here.

I Rock Shaqs
08-02-2013, 11:05 AM
If Rudy Gay doesn't even make top 7 I'm gonna be confused as hell.

Chronz
08-02-2013, 11:22 AM
Im leaning on Iggy but I really want to believe Pierce is a better player when not exhausted from carrying a heavy RS load. But I guess durability should factor in so Im going iggy.

As for AK-47, who was more of a 4-man for them, AK or Williams?

Chronz
08-02-2013, 11:26 AM
Shawn Marion and Thaddeous Young had better PER than Kirilenko, Leonard, Batum, Gay, Parsons, Butler, Galinarri, Deng and Smth....does that mean Marion and Young are better than those guys?
Those are all at least comparable, Barnes was flat out wasted for most of the season.

Sadds The Gr8
08-02-2013, 11:39 AM
Pierce is still a better player than Iggy imo. Just had a horrible team around him come playoff time and can't take on that role anymore. but as a #2 or #3 guy he's still better than Iggy to me.

JusDBasics
08-02-2013, 12:29 PM
What i dont get is how Parsons has more votes than Rudy on this poll. Like you have to have some kind of brain damage if u think Parsons is better than Gay right now. Rudy has to be a top 5 SF and now with a full year in Toronto coming up he will show that next season with improved statistics all around.

nycericanguy
08-02-2013, 12:32 PM
What i dont get is how Parsons has more votes than Rudy on this poll. Like you have to have some kind of brain damage if u think Parsons is better than Gay right now. Rudy has to be a top 5 SF and now with a full year in Toronto coming up he will show that next season with improved statistics all around.

Parsons was better than Gay in just about every facet of the game last year, except for not shooting nearly as much as Gay.

I'd put Pierce, Gallo, Batum, Parsons, Iggy all above Gay right now.

Ak47, Deng, Leonard and Gay are debatable.

Iggz53
08-02-2013, 12:39 PM
So Pierce continues to be underrated I guess

ManningToTyree
08-02-2013, 01:15 PM
I think Iggy has now surpassed pierce. Ill take him here, Pierce next.

Chronz
08-02-2013, 01:36 PM
What i dont get is how Parsons has more votes than Rudy on this poll. Like you have to have some kind of brain damage if u think Parsons is better than Gay right now. Rudy has to be a top 5 SF and now with a full year in Toronto coming up he will show that next season with improved statistics all around.

Why? Cuz PPG?

Hawkeye15
08-02-2013, 01:54 PM
Im leaning on Iggy but I really want to believe Pierce is a better player when not exhausted from carrying a heavy RS load. But I guess durability should factor in so Im going iggy.

As for AK-47, who was more of a 4-man for them, AK or Williams?

Williams/Dante played the 4

Htownballa1622
08-02-2013, 02:09 PM
What i dont get is how Parsons has more votes than Rudy on this poll. Like you have to have some kind of brain damage if u think Parsons is better than Gay right now. Rudy has to be a top 5 SF and now with a full year in Toronto coming up he will show that next season with improved statistics all around.

Why does he have to be a top 5 SF?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=parsoch01&y1=2013&p2=gayru01&y2=2013

Chronz
08-02-2013, 02:30 PM
Williams/Dante played the 4

Who usually defended AK is what I should ask. 3's still?

Hawkeye15
08-02-2013, 03:23 PM
Who usually defended AK is what I should ask. 3's still?

correct. And he defended the opposing top wing most nights.

sunsfan88
08-02-2013, 04:39 PM
AK-47 next and then Deng. Pierce right after that.

Bruno
08-02-2013, 04:56 PM
ive got Iggy. I'm taking K.L. at #5

IversonIsKrazy
08-02-2013, 05:02 PM
Wow skill takes a huge dip after #3 eh. Honestly there's a lot of candidates here I'd say. Personally, based off of last years performance, I'd still give the #4 spot to Pierce. My other candidates that I think you can't go wrong with are:
Iggy, Deng, Gallo & maybe even an argument for Leonard can be made.
Pierce/Iggy/Deng can all be argued for this spot, and can't go wrong with any of them imo.

Next year though, I think Leonard will emerge as a clear spot for #4. I went with Pierce tho.

DoMeFavors
08-02-2013, 05:05 PM
Got to be Paul Pierce, 20 ppg, 5 assists

BullsNumber1Fan
08-02-2013, 05:09 PM
Got to be Paul Pierce, 20 ppg, 5 assists

Of course it's got to be Paul Pierce since he's on the Nets. If he wasn't, I bet you're answer would have been "Got to be Gerald Wallace."

DoMeFavors
08-02-2013, 05:18 PM
Of course it's got to be Paul Pierce since he's on the Nets. If he wasn't, I bet you're answer would have been "Got to be Gerald Wallace."

no actually I dont think Gerald is a top 10 SF

rockets-fan
08-02-2013, 05:50 PM
What i dont get is how Parsons has more votes than Rudy on this poll. Like you have to have some kind of brain damage if u think Parsons is better than Gay right now. Rudy has to be a top 5 SF and now with a full year in Toronto coming up he will show that next season with improved statistics all around.


I think parsons is better, people just don't see enough of him to know the impact he has and how good he is. Kinda like Steven a smith, now SAS respects the hell out of him, he'll even Kobe has given parsons props.

dwoyo
08-02-2013, 06:59 PM
Wow, this is a tough one. The top 3 is a lock, now #4 is a toss up.

I would put Iggy up on #4, then Pierce, then Deng. Though the margins between them are very much narrow, and any of them in that order wouldn't surprise me at all. Now if Gay or Parsons take one of the 4-6 spots I'll be confused...

DR_1
08-02-2013, 07:12 PM
Give me Paul Pierce, than AK47, than Parsons, than Iggy.

AK47 :laugh2:

BullsNumber1Fan
08-02-2013, 08:35 PM
no actually I dont think Gerald is a top 10 SF

Of course not... because he isn't on the Nets anymore.

mrblisterdundee
08-02-2013, 08:50 PM
I'm giving the nod to Paul Pierce. And the choice is based on merit, not tenure.
He averaged 20 points, 6.8 rebounds and 5.2 assists per 36 minutes at age 35 on a team with the 16th fastest pace in the league. He's obviously not elite on defense, but he was passable and still grabbed more than one steal per 36 minutes.
For anyone who votes for Andre Igoudala based on the playoffs, you should be voting for Kawhi Leonard.

tredigs
08-02-2013, 09:50 PM
By RAPM it would go Lebron > KD > Iguodala > Pierce > Gallo > PG > Melo

RAPM had Parson's as a very slight negative.

Bruno
08-02-2013, 10:01 PM
By RAPM it would go Lebron > KD > Iguodala > Pierce > Gallo > PG > Melo

RAPM had Parson's as a very slight negative.

where does Leonard fit into that? are playoff RAPM numbers available?

tredigs
08-02-2013, 10:07 PM
where does Leonard fit into that? are playoff RAPM numbers available?

No, not that I've been able to find yet. I wish. I'm sure someone on APBR did it though.

The next two went Wallace then Leonard. Wallace showed as a pretty big negative offensively but defensively ranked only behind Iguodala. Kawhi showed a slight negative offensively and like 5th for SF's on D.

Bruno
08-02-2013, 10:11 PM
No, not that I've been able to find yet. I wish. I'm sure someone on APBR did it though.

The next two went Wallace then Leonard. Wallace showed as a pretty big negative offensively but defensively ranked only behind Iguodala. Kawhi showed a slight negative offensively and like 5th for SF's on D.

good stuff. Leonards post-season makes his regular season look a bit pedestrian.

seikou8
08-02-2013, 10:42 PM
ive got Iggy. I'm taking K.L. at #5

this kawi will be clearly 4 by end of next season

Radio Rakeem
08-03-2013, 01:46 AM
I need something clarified for me here...Can someone, ANYONE, please give me an in depth reason as to why Iguodala won this poll in a landslide!?!?!?!

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 02:00 AM
AK47 :laugh2:


I would love to see you show me that he isn't the fifth best small forward.

tredigs
08-03-2013, 05:24 AM
I would love to see you show me that he isn't the fifth best small forward.

I'd love to see you show me Iguodala is not top 5.

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 05:51 AM
I'd love to see you show me Iguodala is not top 5.

Inefficient scorer, lots of turnovers. Amazing defender. Number six.

AK47 is a better scorer, turns it over less, rebounds well, and plays good defense.

Paul Pierce plays good defense and scores better than Iggy.

Parsons and Iggy are arguable because Parsons is kind of MEH on defense which makes them pretty close in terms of actual value.

tredigs
08-03-2013, 06:05 AM
Inefficient scorer, lots of turnovers. Amazing defender. Number six.

AK47 is a better scorer, turns it over less, rebounds well, and plays good defense.

Paul Pierce plays good defense and scores better than Iggy.

Parsons and Iggy are arguable because Parsons is kind of MEH on defense which makes them pretty close in terms of actual value.
As a stat guy, how do you account for Parsons well out of the top 5 in RAPM and Iggy snuggly top 3?

JusDBasics
08-03-2013, 12:21 PM
Why is AK47 even being mentioned in this poll?! Cmon now

Kashmir13579
08-03-2013, 01:04 PM
Deng should be getting more love. The Bulls had quite a year behind the efforts of Deng.

Kashmir13579
08-03-2013, 01:04 PM
AK47 :laugh2:

:laugh2:

Radio Rakeem
08-03-2013, 02:33 PM
AK47 :laugh2:

If Kirilenko makes the Top 10 i'll **** myself!!!

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 02:47 PM
AK47

TS% 590, usage 17.4, 14 points, ranked 71 as a defender in the league with an overall defensive synergy of .81 points per possession.

Hyper efficient scorer who plays great defense. I want to know how Iggy is better who scored less, less efficiently, turned it over more, and have his defensive rank be 61 with 80 points per possession.


AK47 beats Iggy in everything other than defense, and that is literally only by .01 points.

That being said, Pierce should win it here and than AK47.

tredigs
08-03-2013, 03:07 PM
AK47

TS% 590, usage 17.4, 14 points, ranked 71 as a defender in the league with an overall defensive synergy of .81 points per possession.

Hyper efficient scorer who plays great defense. I want to know how Iggy is better who scored less, less efficiently, turned it over more, and have his defensive rank be 61 with 80 points per possession.


AK47 beats Iggy in everything other than defense, and that is literally only by .01 points.

That being said, Pierce should win it here and than AK47.

12.4 points, not 14. Per-36 doesn't work for players who can't play 36 minutes over the course of a season. He also can't play more than 65 games it seems (the last time he didn't miss double digit games was a decade ago). I want a player who's going to be able to stay on the court, personally. AK's the more efficient scorer, but his offense is limited as he's a low volume shooter with middling playmaking ability and a weak outside shot. Iguodala's one of the top playmaking SF's and a potent enough defender to make an entire team better on that end. Big gap in RAPM in favor of Iggy as has been the case every year, also.

And AK's a notoriously terrible playoff performer where Dre - at least this year - was the best player on his team in round 1 (18/8/5, 62% TS).

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 03:24 PM
12.4 points, not 14. Per-36 doesn't work for players who can't play 36 minutes over the course of a season. He also can't play more than 65 games it seems (the last time he didn't miss double digit games was a decade ago). I want a player who's going to be able to stay on the court, personally. AK's the more efficient scorer, but his offense is limited as he's a low volume shooter with middling playmaking ability and a weak outside shot. Iguodala's one of the top playmaking SF's and a potent enough defender to make an entire team better on that end. Big gap in RAPM in favor of Iggy as has been the case every year, also.

And AK's a notoriously terrible playoff performer where Dre - at least this year - was the best player on his team in round 1 (18/8/5, 62% TS).


Iggy's a playmaker in transition, but not in the half court. He's awful as a playmaker in the half court. Ranking in the 24th percentile of all players as the pick and roll ball handler. And AK47 scores these points in one of the slower paced teams in the league. He scores more, more efficiently than Iggy in an offense that was less fertile and less fast paced. The offense Iggy was in played too his strength and he absolutely struggled in it.

And every player in the history of the league with a biggest enough sample has the same stats as the regular season, but slightly worse. Every one. Adjusting for the fact more elite defenses make it that make sense. He will regress to the mean on this.

tredigs
08-03-2013, 04:16 PM
Iggy's a playmaker in transition, but not in the half court. He's awful as a playmaker in the half court. Ranking in the 24th percentile of all players as the pick and roll ball handler. And AK47 scores these points in one of the slower paced teams in the league. He scores more, more efficiently than Iggy in an offense that was less fertile and less fast paced. The offense Iggy was in played too his strength and he absolutely struggled in it.

And every player in the history of the league with a biggest enough sample has the same stats as the regular season, but slightly worse. Every one. Adjusting for the fact more elite defenses make it that make sense. He will regress to the mean on this.

Long story short, both are slight positives offensively and make the bulk of their contributions on the defensive end. But on that end AK is very good, while Iggy is the class of the league. He led the Nuggets in RAPM + Simple Rating while holding his opponents to an 11.8 PER (and he was always tasked with the best opposing wing). Add to that the extra games + minutes that you get with him over AK and it's not really close.

I also expect a jump in 3pt% + TS for him this year in joining a team that can space the floor big time (Denver was among the worst 3pt shooting teams in the league).

Guppyfighter
08-03-2013, 08:07 PM
Long story short, both are slight positives offensively and make the bulk of their contributions on the defensive end. But on that end AK is very good, while Iggy is the class of the league. He led the Nuggets in RAPM + Simple Rating while holding his opponents to an 11.8 PER (and he was always tasked with the best opposing wing). Add to that the extra games + minutes that you get with him over AK and it's not really close.

I also expect a jump in 3pt% + TS for him this year in joining a team that can space the floor big time (Denver was among the worst 3pt shooting teams in the league).

Iggy was actually a negative on offense last year. His WS/48 was below one.

tredigs
08-03-2013, 10:11 PM
Iggy was actually a negative on offense last year. His WS/48 was below one.

RAPM > WS. Significantly.

Drummond#1
08-03-2013, 10:35 PM
Josh Smith should be an option. As he will be starting at the SF position this year. He was seventh in 2008. Bill Simmons currently has Smoove ranked as a top 8 OVERALL forward. He is arguably better than Melo IMO.

NBA-GMaster
08-03-2013, 10:47 PM
Please include J-Smoove.. Next poll please.. :clap:

rockets-fan
08-03-2013, 11:22 PM
Josh Smith should be an option. As he will be starting at the SF position this year. He was seventh in 2008. Bill Simmons currently has Smoove ranked as a top 8 OVERALL forward. He is arguably better than Melo IMO.

I'm no Melo fan, but Smith over Melo? I just don't see how.

Drummond#1
08-04-2013, 12:36 AM
Melo has more accolades and is the far more efficient chucker... But last year aside I believe they have been equally valuable to their teams. Smoove is by far the better rebounder/defender and is a better athlete. IMO he has as a better all round game.

Drummond#1
08-04-2013, 12:37 AM
I would say Melo is as good as a prime Alex English. Smoove is more of a prime Shawn Marion. Who would you rather have on your squad?

unleashthebeast
08-04-2013, 12:58 AM
Wilson Chandler should be on this poll over some of these guys, he is a very good player

GREATNESS ONE
08-04-2013, 01:31 AM
Leaning towards Deng at #5 spot.

sunsfan88
08-04-2013, 07:16 AM
Josh Smith should be an option. As he will be starting at the SF position this year. He was seventh in 2008. Bill Simmons currently has Smoove ranked as a top 8 OVERALL forward. He is arguably better than Melo IMO.
Josh Smith is horrible as a SF. Just ask any Hawks fans. Nothing but a stat padder if even that.

Drummond#1
08-04-2013, 01:49 PM
Josh Smith is horrible as a SF. Just ask any Hawks fans. Nothing but a stat padder if even that.

The Hawks have fans?:shrug:You wouldn't know by how empty their building is during the playoffs.

sunsfan88
08-04-2013, 04:11 PM
The Hawks have fans?:shrug:You wouldn't know by how empty their building is during the playoffs.

Yea at least their getting to the playoffs though unlike our teams :(