PDA

View Full Version : Cavs Future



Trueblue2
07-30-2013, 02:56 AM
I'm making this thread for two reasons. 1) Andrew Bynum signed with the cavs and I want discuss how well he'll be able to succeed there 2) The NBA forum should be for the discussion of every team, not just the big market teams with larger fan bases. Also this is not a LeBron thread, LeBron going back to the Cavs is just slightly more likely than LeBron going to the Lakers. You can hope for it to happen, but it probably wont (at least not during this next FA).

The Cavs have been racking up high draft picks ever since Lebron left and loading up on young talent. They just signed Bynum to a deal that expires in 2015 which is basically when every player on the team's contracts expires (they have 10mil or so on the books between Jack/Waiters/Zeller in 2015). With the signing of Bynum it seems someone is likely to be gone in a trade by the deadline in their front court, probably Varajao, maybe Thompson. They have good front court depth and a good guard rotation with Irving/Waiters/Jack although Bynum and Irving seem to be constantly battling injuries.

They probably need a starting SF and back up/starting SG. They don't have any outrageously bad contracts that will hamstring them and can probably unload enough cap to sign a max or near max player next offseason by trading Varajao + filler to a team with cap space for a TPE and draft pick and have the full TPE available to them in 2014 and most likely for 2015.


The cavs are one of the teams that can either have an extremely bright future or be stuck in the lottery for another decade depending on how they manage their team in the upcoming two seasons so I think this merits discussion. I thought Waiters was a reach but I like how he's played, love Kyries game, I think Bennet was a reach but it is what it is. With the right FA signing and a relatively healthy Bynum moving forward (not expecting him to play the entire season by any mean) they could turn their team into a contender faster than most realize.


So, put yourself in the Cavs FO's shoes, who do you target in a trade for Varajao or Thompson? Who, if anyone, do you target in 2014 FA? Who do you retain and who do you replace in 2015?

shep33
07-30-2013, 03:08 AM
Bynum's knees aren't going to get better. He might have a good year, but his long term success is extremely unlikely.

I wouldn't depend on him being a huge contributer 3-5 years down the road.

naps
07-30-2013, 04:03 AM
If I'm their GM then I am not counting anything on Bynum. Dude is done. And having cap-space doesn't matter much when it comes to landing a superstar FA (unless LeBron wants to go back ofcourse). They will have to build through drafts to form a contender around Kyrie. I am not a big of their young pieces besides Kyrie.

shep33
07-30-2013, 04:12 AM
If I'm their GM then I am not counting anything on Bynum. Dude is done. And having cap-space doesn't matter much when it comes to landing a superstar FA (unless LeBron wants to go back ofcourse). They will have to build through drafts to form a contender around Kyrie. I am not a big of their young pieces besides Kyrie.

This. Bynum had 1 good year in the NBA, and has been injured in the majority of the other years throughout his career.

I too hate what Cleveland has done through the draft. I thought Waiters was a reach, also think Bennet was a reach, while also not making much sense since Thompson, Clark, and Andy are already there.

Trueblue2
07-30-2013, 04:26 AM
If I'm their GM then I am not counting anything on Bynum. Dude is done. And having cap-space doesn't matter much when it comes to landing a superstar FA (unless LeBron wants to go back ofcourse). They will have to build through drafts to form a contender around Kyrie. I am not a big of their young pieces besides Kyrie.

You know you can sign players through FA that aren't superstars right? A 2nd tier guy that fits with their players can go a long way for the cavs. Cap space can also be used in a trade, Varajao, + whatever 2 non kyrie players the other team wants + TPE can net something nice.
And 'relative' was the key word I used when discussing Bynum's health. Relative health for him is 3/4 of a season at 20mpg.


Also I'm shocked there's been 3 reply's and none of them were 'cavs forum'

Monta is beast
07-30-2013, 04:40 AM
Ima put it this way. If Bynum has a good week to start the season, they should trade him.

Monta is beast
07-30-2013, 04:40 AM
If he starts the season...

naps
07-30-2013, 04:41 AM
You know you can sign players through FA that aren't superstars right?

I never said that. I said having cap-space doesn't matter much when it comes to landing a superstar FA (unless LeBron wants to go back ofcourse) Where did I say they can't sign players that are not superstars? Read carefully.

naps
07-30-2013, 04:42 AM
Ima put it this way. If Bynum has a good week to start the season, they should trade him.

+1

I will be shocked if Bynum stays healthy through another season. It's unfortunate but I think he's done.

kobe4thewinbang
07-30-2013, 06:47 AM
Bynum will likely be gone by February which I heard is when Cleveland can say "screw this" and drop him like a bowling ball. Irving is a would-be stud if he could stay healthy. But let's face it. They need some more firepower and an overall better team to even come close to their glory days when they had an army of scrubs on LBJ's back.

Gators123
07-30-2013, 07:24 AM
Its hard to imagine Bynum being healthy..


"Health is going to be an issue. There's nothing I can really do about it. It's arthritis in the knees. Cartilage is missing. That's not going to regrow itself. Maybe in the future, the next three to five years, there may be something out there that really does help. For right now, it's a waiting game."

But yeah, as long as they have Kyrie, they have a bright future.

tr3ymill3r
07-30-2013, 08:21 AM
I think a lot of it hinges on Bynum and his knees. If you're LeBron it has to intrigue you to finally play with a real big man and an upper tier PG in Irving. However it alson hinges on Wade and Bosh as well. If Wade continues to get injured and can't stay healthy and Bosh scores 0 points again in a deciding game. Both of those scenarios would have to play out for LeBron to return in order for the Cavs to have a future, otherwise they are just spinning their wheels in mediocrity.

theducksmuggler
07-30-2013, 08:47 AM
You sound so optimistic...just like i did as a 76ers fan last year when we got bynum we had a young upcoming team that with bynum could make us a contender few years down the road...then he didn't play a game his knees are shot and then we traded our best player away and we are in rebuild mode

TorontoHuskies
07-30-2013, 09:02 AM
Cleveland: Rudy Gay +Acy

Toronto: Thompson, Walton, Draft pick


Good trade for both Cavs- get a SF which they desperately need, Toronto unloads Gay's contract and gets a promising Canadian prospect back (who is friends with Wiggins too). This helps Toronto rebuild/tank and Cleveland becomes much better at the same time. Walton is an expiring so the Raptors can drop him at the end of the season and Acy fills in the spot missing from Thompson on the Cavs.

monty77
07-30-2013, 09:54 AM
When I see Cavs' roster I realize that they are one of the most promising team in the NBA because they have a high-quality and young players. However, if you want to be a contender you'll need a good mix of players, you need veteran players accessible to lead the youngest.

Adding Jarrett Jack after his wonderful season with Warrions is the first step, but it isn't enough to become a contender, or even overcome first round in playoffs. The fact that Varejao a veteran who can play either at PF and C position closes the doors to Zeller at backup Center and Tristan Thompson at PF is more than enough to sell them, even more when he averages monster numbers in this short season (14pts and 14rb), so Cavs could get some valuable player in exchange.

Cavs took a risky decision by signing Bynum 12 millons per year and Zeller as backup player is enough to cover itself. The most sensible would be trade for a SF. They have plenty of talent at PF with Thompson and current number one in the draft (Bennett), and they have Waiters, Irving and Jack at SG and PG position, so they only need to sign a defensive, veteran SF who plays as starter (McGee would be a great backup player), and a backup SG with the same conditions.

If they trade Varejao for a SF like Deng, Prince orIguodala and they would get a SG such as Sefolosha or T.Allen, they would be a really great team:

Irving/Jack
Waiters/T.Allen or Sefolosha
Deng or Prince or Iguodala/McGee
Bennett/T.Thompson
Bynum/Zeller

ottograham14
07-30-2013, 09:56 AM
Bynum will likely be gone by February which I heard is when Cleveland can say "screw this" and drop him like a bowling ball. Irving is a would-be stud if he could stay healthy. But let's face it. They need some more firepower and an overall better team to even come close to their glory days when they had an army of scrubs on LBJ's back.

The contract is for two years and $24.8 million, but if Bynum is waived before January 7 he'll only get $6 million. The deal contains no performance-based incentives. It's a reasonably low-risk deal for the Cavs, who can get out early if Bynum's knees act up again and can get out after two years no matter what. Obviously they will take it slow with him at the beginning of the year with him getting around 23-25mpg and then filter in Varajeo (which will also limit his minutes to lessen his injury risk as well) and then filter in Tyler Zeller from time to time as well. Also Tristan Thompson could get 4-5mpg at the 5 too with Bennett at the 4 if they want to go with a small lineup. They have 5 guys when all healthy that can contribute now so the rotations that Brown comes up with will be the big story and how he tries limiting each's to their best ability.

As a lot have said this team will go as far as they do depending on health. Bynums knees will be huge but also KI's health, Waiters health and AV's health will be huge too and Bennetts shoulder. If the 2 Guards can give them 70-75 games this year and the big men can give them 60-65 then there is no reason talent wise not to believe that they cant be the 6-8 seed in the East and scare some oppenents while there. If all of them miss significant time then it is not out of the realm to believe that they are a lottery team again. Even if Bynum though only plays 40 games this year the team will still be competitive if the rest stay healthy where I believe as a Cavs fan that they have enough depth now to sneak in at the 7 or 8 seed in the East.

Moving forward, if Bynum plays like he did last time Brown was his HC in LA in 2011 at an All-Star level or even lesser than that but plays in around 60-70 games this year then they will have an option to make on him at 12 million next year where they will have to do that by July 9th. That gives them a week and a half next year after Free Agency starts on the 1st to see if they can talk another Superstar in to come join KI and the rest of the talent. Obviously Lebron will be the big name so obviously they will try pushing for him the hardest but they could go after a lesser piece like a Danny Granger for their 3 and fill that need.

Moving forward they still have enough cap next year to offer a max deal and then to offer extensions to KI and Thompson in 2015. They will have a first round pick next year and possibly Sacramento's if they are outside of the top 11 as that is the protections. In 2015 they will have possibly 3 1st round draft picks with thier own, Memphis' possibly and will have the Heat's 1st round pick. Thats a lot of trade assests they have not to mention the young players they could move on their roster such as Waiters, Bennett, Zeller, Thompson, Karasev if they do want to make a Blockbuster trade for a Max player if they cant get one in free agency.

The draft picks might look weak to other individuals at this time because they don't follow the team well enough but Waiters was a 1st team All-Rookie last year as well as Zeller being named to the 2nd team All Rookie team. They have a budding superstar in KI and then a player in Tristan Thompson that works his tail off and is a budding 12 and 10 guy. Add to that the depth they have no added in a sleeper pick in Sergey Karasev (lesser Kukoc clone who is only 19), Bennett a scoring combo forward that could eventually grow into a 3 but for now will be played at the 4 because of his abilities on the offensive end and the most under the radar signing of the year IMO in Jarrett Jack coming in to be a combo guard to run with KI and Waiters.

I as a Cavs fan think the future is very bright but it depends on a lot with health. This year's main goal of the team is to get to the playoffs to get the young players the experience of this type of play in the NBA, also to show them that the FO is dedicated to winning instead of tanking and to finally show next years FA crop that the team is trending upward and that they have a lot of pieces that a Superstar might want to join and play for. It should be an interesting season for the Cavs and they are definately one of the top 6 most interesting teams in what might happen this year in the NBA.

ottograham14
07-30-2013, 10:02 AM
When I see Cavs' roster I realize that they are one of the most promising team in the NBA because they have a high-quality and young players. However, if you want to be a contender you'll need a good mix of players, you need veteran players accessible to lead the youngest.

Adding Jarrett Jack after his wonderful season with Warrions is the first step, but it isn't enough to become a contender, or even overcome first round in playoffs. The fact that Varejao a veteran who can play either at PF and C position closes the doors to Zeller at backup Center and Tristan Thompson at PF is more than enough to sell them, even more when he averages monster numbers in this short season (14pts and 14rb), so Cavs could get some valuable player in exchange.

Cavs took a risky decision signing Bynum 12 millons per year and Zeller as backup player is enough to cover itself. The most sensible would be trade for a SF. They have plenty of talent at PF with Thompson and current number one in the draft (Bennett), and they have Waiters, Irving and Jack at SG and PG position, so they only need to sign a defensive, veteran SF who plays as starter (McGee would be a great backup player), and a backup SG with the same conditions.

If they trade Varejao for a SF like Deng, Prince orIguodala and they would get a SG such as Sefolosha or T.Allen, they would be a really great team:

Irving/Jack
Waiters/T.Allen or Sefolosha
Deng or Prince or Iguodala/McGee
Bennett/T.Thompson
Bynum/Zeller

AV isn't going anywhere until they can see what they have in Bynum on the floor. AV and Bynum will both miss time this year so its smarter to keep both and limit thier minutes for each other. Also Mike Brown loves everything that AV does and I don't see Brown wanting to move him at this time from everything I hear.

Bennett is not starting over Thompson either.

Earl Clark will most likely get the run at starting SF this year with Alonzo Gee being his main backup. Clark is a long athletic defender but isn't really a spot up shooter that they would like at the 3 to play off of KI and Waiters where both of those guys excel at driving and kicking. Gee is more defensive player as well.

Jack is going to be playing a lot with KI this year with KI playing off of Jack and Jack controlling the ball where KI is going to be able to run off screens more and get open shots instead of having to create all of his shots like the last two years.

Deng wouldn't be a bad option for this team but I am not trading AV for a 1 year rental player when you can realistically make a move on him next year when he is a FA. They will go into the season with the below lineup and see what they can do with this unit and then making a move at the deadline if need be or playing out the season.

Bynum/AV/Zeller
TT/Bennett
Clark/Gee
Waiters/Miles/Karasev
KI/Jack

Arch Stanton
07-30-2013, 11:49 AM
Cleveland: Rudy Gay +Acy

Toronto: Thompson, Walton, Draft pick


Good trade for both Cavs- get a SF which they desperately need, Toronto unloads Gay's contract and gets a promising Canadian prospect back (who is friends with Wiggins too). This helps Toronto rebuild/tank and Cleveland becomes much better at the same time. Walton is an expiring so the Raptors can drop him at the end of the season and Acy fills in the spot missing from Thompson on the Cavs.

Walton is not on the team anymore, and there is no way they trade for Gay unless Toronto eats half of that contract. He's way overpaid.

todu82
07-30-2013, 12:45 PM
Yeah, Bynum's done. Shame because if healthy he could do a lot for the Cavs.

MrfadeawayJB
07-30-2013, 01:43 PM
I like their team

MonroeFAN
07-30-2013, 01:57 PM
I like the Cav's roster, but with all of the Bynum staying healthy talk, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Irving has missed 50+ games in his first two seasons. After missing most of his only college season.