PDA

View Full Version : Top 10 Greatest Role Players of All-Time?



JWorthy42
07-28-2013, 07:51 PM
I've seen the Top 10 players ever thread plenty of times here, however I am not sure if anyone ever posted a Top 10 for role players.

A good role player is a vital part of any basketball team and can really turn the team around. Throughout the years we have seen plenty of great role players make incredible plays. However, who are the Top 10?

Some of the best ones that come to my mind, are probably Charles Oakley, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Bruce Bowen, Michael Cooper, Vinnie Johnson, Manu (in his earlier years), Jason Terry, Robert Horry, Dennis Rodman...etc.

Who is your Top 10?

Also, if you want you can put the year/team that the particular player was especially impressive.

Example:

Robert Horry - 2002 Lakers.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 07:59 PM
Dennis Rodman for sure. I will put some more thought into this, and post again, but he jumps straight off the page to me.

TheMightyHumph
07-28-2013, 08:03 PM
There are too many great role players to name a top 10.

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 08:04 PM
Michael Cooper, Danny ainge, Horace grant, Ac Green and VInnie Johnson have to be right there somewhere.

JWorthy42
07-28-2013, 08:10 PM
There are too many great role players to name a top 10.

Are you up to the challenge or no? ;)

D-Leethal
07-28-2013, 08:22 PM
Rodman.

D-Leethal
07-28-2013, 08:26 PM
Dollar Bill Bradley

LAKERS4LIFE!!
07-28-2013, 08:30 PM
Derek Fisher has to be one of the greatest role players of all time... I could even seeing him be put in top 5 because of how clutch he was.

Green Storm
07-28-2013, 08:38 PM
Mrsandmrblank

bagwell368
07-28-2013, 08:43 PM
Well sixth men would have to be considered. That's Havlicek, McHale, Ramsey - that's just the Celts.

jericho
07-28-2013, 08:55 PM
I like rodman and horry here there is a reason why they have multiple rings and with different teams specially horry. He knew his role didn't play out of it and won with the lakers spurs rockets that I can remember

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 09:56 PM
Well sixth men would have to be considered. That's Havlicek, McHale, Ramsey - that's just the Celts.

multiple time allstars , hofers to be exact, and on the offical top 50 list should by no means be included in any role player list.

JasonJohnHorn
07-28-2013, 10:09 PM
It's hard to define role player I think. Is it a guy who comes off the bench? A guy who fill a specific role (shooter/defender or rebounder/defender). Does a guy who was the man but become a role player later count? Dennis Johnson and Bill Walton for example? Does an All-Star player count if his role is limited? Dennis Rodman for example?

I would be inclined to say Rodman because he filled a niche role (rebounds and defence) and did it SO well that it got him on the All-Star team and in the HOF. But some might not consider him a role player because he was one of the best players on his team.

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 11:01 PM
It's hard to define role player I think. Is it a guy who comes off the bench? A guy who fill a specific role (shooter/defender or rebounder/defender). Does a guy who was the man but become a role player later count? Dennis Johnson and Bill Walton for example? Does an All-Star player count if his role is limited? Dennis Rodman for example?

I would be inclined to say Rodman because he filled a niche role (rebounds and defence) and did it SO well that it got him on the All-Star team and in the HOF. But some might not consider him a role player because he was one of the best players on his team.

I think 1st rule should be to have NEVER been an allstar or once at best.

Chronz
07-28-2013, 11:03 PM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-28-2013, 11:06 PM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

Agreed. He had waaay to big of a role/impact to be considered that. I also think certain scorers should it the role player mold - if they do little else than score. Kevin Martin on the Thunder last year fits that role. So does Jamal Crawford.

Edit: grammar

DR_1
07-28-2013, 11:54 PM
Bruce Bowen, Toni Kukoc come to mind

Tony_Starks
07-29-2013, 12:00 AM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

Damn skippy he aint! Not with Detroit or Chicago..

JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2013, 12:14 AM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

I don't think this is the case. There are a number of players who were role players specifically for their scoring. Vinnie Johnson was known for being able to score a lot in bursts. Craig Hodges was a horrid defender but a great three-point shooter. Same for Steve Kerr.


My problem is, how does one define 'role player'? Is it a player with a niche? If so, Rodman certain is one. He did two things: rebound and defend. He just happened to be the best at both.

Bruce Bowen did two things: Defend and shoot threes. Ditto for Battier.


Where as Jordan didn't have a niche. He did everything. So did Pippen. So did Bird, and Magic, and Garnett and Duncan. They make plays, they score, they defend, they rebound. Rodman's impact on the game was HUGE!!!! Bigger than most players who have played the game. I'd say he may be a top 20 player all time, certainly a top 50, which puts him in rare company, but he WAS a niche player.

A good role player does something VERY well... a great role player does two things very well. Rodman was great at two things and couldn't do much more besides rebound and defend (though I think wouldn't do much more is the more accurate term).


I'm inclined to agree with you, that Rodman was more than a role player because his impact on the game was so huge, but then, what is your definition of role player? and how is it that Rodman is exempt from that?

PurpleJesus
07-29-2013, 12:19 AM
Jeff Hornacek, Ben Wallace, Jason Terry.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-29-2013, 12:57 AM
I don't think this is the case. There are a number of players who were role players specifically for their scoring. Vinnie Johnson was known for being able to score a lot in bursts. Craig Hodges was a horrid defender but a great three-point shooter. Same for Steve Kerr.


My problem is, how does one define 'role player'? Is it a player with a niche? If so, Rodman certain is one. He did two things: rebound and defend. He just happened to be the best at both.

Bruce Bowen did two things: Defend and shoot threes. Ditto for Battier.


Where as Jordan didn't have a niche. He did everything. So did Pippen. So did Bird, and Magic, and Garnett and Duncan. They make plays, they score, they defend, they rebound. Rodman's impact on the game was HUGE!!!! Bigger than most players who have played the game. I'd say he may be a top 20 player all time, certainly a top 50, which puts him in rare company, but he WAS a niche player.

A good role player does something VERY well... a great role player does two things very well. Rodman was great at two things and couldn't do much more besides rebound and defend (though I think wouldn't do much more is the more accurate term).


I'm inclined to agree with you, that Rodman was more than a role player because his impact on the game was so huge, but then, what is your definition of role player? and how is it that Rodman is exempt from that?

If you perform your role to an INCREDIBLE almost hall of fame level, then you are not a role player. If you call Rodman a role player than you might as well call Iverson or even Carmelo a role player (which I don't).

This leads to a the conclusion that the answer to this thread might be exceedingly difficult because it would be quite difficult to draw the line at a role player. Do I think Rodman is a role player? No. Dikembe/ Ben Wallace? Perhaps but again they're pushing it.

CHI_Fan412
07-29-2013, 01:00 AM
Toni kukoc

Ebbs
07-29-2013, 01:02 AM
To me a role plate fulfills a certain role. He doesn't have a complete game but he comes in excels in one area and isn't a complete liability everywhere else.

Shane Battier is an all time great role player. Ben Wallace however isn't because impact during his prime was amongst the greatest of all his teammates. So he was doing a lot more than be a "role" player.

ThuglifeJ
07-29-2013, 01:34 AM
Allen Iverson

ThuglifeJ
07-29-2013, 01:39 AM
why is everyone getting all worked up about scorers getting the most attention lately.

scoring always has been and always will be the most popular aspect of basketball. Nothing wrong with it either. Not understanding this movement against it

TrueFan420
07-29-2013, 02:03 AM
Allen Iverson
AI is not a role player.

Same for rodman he isn't a role player either.

JWorthy42
07-29-2013, 02:13 AM
AI is not a role player.

Same for rodman he isn't a role player either.

Thats why I mentioned choosing a team and year for the player.

Rodman on the Bulls was there for rebounding and rebounding only. He didn't have any plays run for him. I consider him a role player because he was not a focal point of the team. Although his rebounding and defense was a big factor. He just played his role, he didn't need a play called for him.

JWorthy42
07-29-2013, 02:15 AM
Also, I love how no one made a Top 10 list :laugh:

Chronz
07-29-2013, 02:41 AM
I don't think this is the case. There are a number of players who were role players specifically for their scoring. Vinnie Johnson was known for being able to score a lot in bursts. Craig Hodges was a horrid defender but a great three-point shooter. Same for Steve Kerr.
Same for Steve Kerr? Hodges? We are talking about being (arguably anyways) the games most impactful player on an entire side of the court, Inarguably the games All-Time best rebounder. Kerr is just an elite 3pt spot up shooter with nowhere near the overall influence on the game, thats not a good comparison.

I guess I can see where you're going with Vinnie but I think it would make more sense to use a guy who is actually a superior player to Rodman. That you're lumping Rodman with these chumps is kind of proving my point.



I'm inclined to agree with you, that Rodman was more than a role player because his impact on the game was so huge, but then, what is your definition of role player? and how is it that Rodman is exempt from that?
How about, every player has a role, thus every player is a role player? Some players have more diverse roles, but not necessarily more important ones. So any presumed weight people want to add to the label is flawed to begin with. If a "role player" can have a greater impact than a non-role player, then whats the significance of the label? BTW, what is the level between being a role player and being a star? Or are there only stars and everyone else? If thats the case, the better question would be defining what makes a star...

Just my 2 cents.

That said, I should have contributed more to the thread than point out Rodman. I KNOW what you guys are saying, its essentially the most clutch non-primary scorers on championship teams.

Chronz
07-29-2013, 02:43 AM
To me a role plate fulfills a certain role. He doesn't have a complete game but he comes in excels in one area and isn't a complete liability everywhere else.

Shane Battier is an all time great role player. Ben Wallace however isn't because impact during his prime was amongst the greatest of all his teammates. So he was doing a lot more than be a "role" player.

You know whats funny, Shane Battier was once his teams best player when Yao went down, but he was considered the role player while Tmac (the inferior player) was getting All-NBA/MVP votes.

rocketfuel
07-29-2013, 05:04 AM
Robert Horry was a superstar in clutch situations. When I heard he had joined the Lakers, I was like they are going to win a lot of championships. That 3 over the Kings was just electric.

You could probably find a who's who of great role players on the Chicago Bulls, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Bird Celtics, Showtime Lakers and Bad Boys Pistons. I would agree that Kukoc is one of the best role players... He was so talented, but happened to be on a team with great scorers in MJ and Pippen. Rodman was kind of an anchor on defense and rebounding....he was a role player more due to his personality...if he was a little more normal he might not have been that guy they had to tolerate and bring to the Bulls. He got bounced out of the Spurs because of his behavior... his talent on defense and rebounding was at a superstar level. You take a guy with that type of dominance on defense and rebounding with a normal personality, he's usually a star...even if he doesn't play as much offense. Say Pippen only played at that level on defense....Pippen's still a star because he was so dominant at that end.

Miltstar
07-29-2013, 06:30 AM
I'm gonna be a homer here and name the raptors top ten.

1. Donyell Marshall
2. Antonio Davis
3. Amir Johnson
4. Morris Peterson
5. Doug Christie
6. Jose Calderon
7. Jerome Williams
8. Charles Oakley
9. Anthony Parker
10. Keon Clark

honourable mention; Dell Curry, Matt Bonner, Chris Childs, Jorge Garbajosa, Lamond Murray

WadeKobe
07-29-2013, 06:44 AM
It is so hard to define a role player.

Chris Andersen was historically good in his role for Miami this year, being otherworldly efficient in the postseason, and leadin the Heat on one of the best 50-game runs the NBA has ever seen, so he might have had the greatest role player season of all time.

Robert Horry
Bruce Bowen
Derek Fisher
Ron Harper

These are some of the names that come up quite easily when thinking about my formative years watching basketball.

ThuglifeJ
07-29-2013, 07:31 AM
Being real though. Surprised no one mentions Damon Stoudemire.

The dude was the ultimate hustler, scrapper. I think for a couple franchises too everyone loved having the guy.

Horry will always be my favorite though.

mark1125
07-29-2013, 07:54 AM
Instead of repeating who has been listed, I will throw Rick Mahorn onto the list. On any other team, he was just a wide body on the floor. On the Pistons, he and Bill Laimbeer made teams completely change their gameplan. If we are talking impact on the game, Mahorn has to be at least mentioned.

BklynKnicks3
07-29-2013, 09:35 AM
first people need to agree on what a role player is. I dont think a guy like rodman is a role player he is probably the best rebounder in nba history. To me its guys like battier/fisher/horry people like that. Guys like vinnie johnson starks/crawford/terry where all border line all stars or all stars

MTar786
07-29-2013, 09:42 AM
vlade divac (older days)
zo (2006 heat year)
bruce bowen
robert horry
toni kukoc
shane battier
james posey
derek fisher
ron harper (in his older days)
jamaal crawford
jason terry
ray allen (heat years)
jr smith
steve kerr
kenneth faried
kawhi leonard (although he wont be remembered for one as his role is expanding)

MTar786
07-29-2013, 09:44 AM
somehow i was the first to mention james posey? wow

Hawkeye15
07-29-2013, 11:05 AM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

well he isn't a franchise player. What would you label him?

jerellh528
07-29-2013, 11:18 AM
This is pretty tough considering the differing opinions of what a role player is. Top 10 bench players of all time would be a little easier, even though yes I am aware starting or being on the bench does not warrant being a role player or not.

NYKnicks4511
07-29-2013, 11:33 AM
Kobe Bryant

jayjay33
07-29-2013, 11:59 AM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.


This

jayjay33
07-29-2013, 12:00 PM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

I don't think this is the case. There are a number of players who were role players specifically for their scoring. Vinnie Johnson was known for being able to score a lot in bursts. Craig Hodges was a horrid defender but a great three-point shooter. Same for Steve Kerr.


My problem is, how does one define 'role player'? Is it a player with a niche? If so, Rodman certain is one. He did two things: rebound and defend. He just happened to be the best at both.

Bruce Bowen did two things: Defend and shoot threes. Ditto for Battier.


Where as Jordan didn't have a niche. He did everything. So did Pippen. So did Bird, and Magic, and Garnett and Duncan. They make plays, they score, they defend, they rebound. Rodman's impact on the game was HUGE!!!! Bigger than most players who have played the game. I'd say he may be a top 20 player all time, certainly a top 50, which puts him in rare company, but he WAS a niche player.

A good role player does something VERY well... a great role player does two things very well. Rodman was great at two things and couldn't do much more besides rebound and defend (though I think wouldn't do much more is the more accurate term).


I'm inclined to agree with you, that Rodman was more than a role player because his impact on the game was so huge, but then, what is your definition of role player? and how is it that Rodman is exempt from that?



You just answered your own question.

kblo247
07-29-2013, 12:06 PM
well he isn't a franchise player. What would you label him?

A hall of famer ... If he's a role player, then so is the likes of Ray Allen

Hawkeye15
07-29-2013, 12:09 PM
A hall of famer ... If he's a role player, then so is the likes of Ray Allen

Ray Allen was a franchise player early in his career.

kblo247
07-29-2013, 12:09 PM
PG - Derek Fisher and Kenny Smith
SG - Michal Cooper and Byron Scott
SF - Bruce Bowen and Toni Kukoc
PF - Robert Horry and Horace Grant
C - Bill Lambier and Rick Mahorn


That's my role player team

kblo247
07-29-2013, 12:11 PM
Ray Allen was a franchise player early in his career.

As a Buck? With big dog and ET!

Ray Allen the sonic was a fake franchise player who stupidly was given the max, like Joe Johnson without the ability to even make the Sonic relevant with another all star talent. He was a glorified role player on Boston behind Pierce, KG, and Rondo in the same vein as a Lamar Odom

Dennis Rodman impacted the game, impacted winning, and was better than Ray

3RDASYSTEM
07-29-2013, 12:23 PM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

******** RODMAN is a role player just like MAGIC and JORDAN and any player who entered the league

now which role is more percentage and usage in that role will determine the 'best' or perceived as the 'best'

RODMAN role was to guard perimeter and interior and later in his career he was basically interior defender and also gobble up all the boards

MAGIC's role with lakers was to run and gun with SHOWTIME and be a leader on and off court for the BUSS family, MAGIC's role was to rack up dimes and push the tempo

JORDAN role was to score and be a leader, JORDAN avg like 28ppg his rookie yr and like 28ppg his final yr with the BULLS in 98', damn he did such a major 'role' swift from day1 to yr 14 right?

all players have roles, its just media has tried to dumb down the 'role' players effect until you realize they all have a equal role to play, which is all equal in parts, better playes are just used more and play most minutes

KERR role was sharpshooter from spotting up, tremendous smaller usage role than JORDAN or PIPP, but did it to the tune of best ever 3pt pct in a season so he was needed and very important to the triangle and giving JORDAN space to operate

WORTHY was a sure fire first option if not playing in la, does that take away from him being dominant to 3rd option because of MAGIC/ALCINDOR? or are you smart enough to know he is not a 'espn role player"?

same goes with BOSH and others who take a smaller role(usage) for team success

everybody is a role player, same as a movie, which sports have pretty much turned into

scoring doesn't have **** to do with it because you are who you are as a player, go see MAGIC-NASH-STOCKTON-RONDO-CP3 and others who are pass happy only type players, they score when they cant pass it to nobody

but scoring/rebounding/assists/hockey assists/hustling/diving/scouting/gm/owner all have a role tied into together, no role is greater than the next

JORDAN's scoring for 96-98' 3peat was equally as important as RODMAN'ss 18rpg and interior defense and tenacity/toughness mentally and physically him and JORDAN shared, same with PIPP's overall fill up the stat sheet type of game, equal to both JORDAN-RODMAN, now add in KERR's dead eye specialist darts and KUKOC(dubbed the JORDAN of EUROPE at that time) international game and 7ft height driving to basket or bailing them out in game 7 of 98' ECF against PACERS

now add all that up and the role is a 72 win team, who let about 3-5games slip away, could have won 75-77games because all the roles were of '1'

who played a bigger role TEX for creating the triangle movement or PHIL for being able to get JORDAN to buy into it? the coach and the assistant both played equals roles in my book, 1 wont work without the other but it was TEX who 'invented' the triangle and PHIL invented ZEN/mind games with players

now add both up with the all world game of JORDAN and the across the board game of PIPP and the rebounding and tenacity of RODMAN and what do you have? 6 titles in 8yrs

Heediot
07-29-2013, 12:28 PM
Dennis Rodman
Bruce Bowen
Michael Cooper

b@llhog24
07-29-2013, 01:54 PM
Kobe Bryant

This.

Chronz
07-29-2013, 02:09 PM
well he isn't a franchise player. What would you label him?

If those 2 are the only options then hes closer to that pretty clearly imo.

DreamShaker
07-29-2013, 02:45 PM
In no order:

Horry
Fisher
Cooper
Kerr
Vinnie Johnson
Bruce Bowen
Satch Sanders
Mario Ellie
Sam Perkins
Charles Oakley

brandt
07-29-2013, 03:39 PM
Robert Horry for sure! Anyone with 7 rings on 3 seperate teams, is a great role player in my book.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-29-2013, 03:42 PM
Also, I love how no one made a Top 10 list :laugh:

Because defining a role player isn't as simple as you made it seem. Many argue that Rodman is not a role player (including myself). Just because you don't have plays run out for you, doesn't make you a role player.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-29-2013, 03:49 PM
Another name/season:
Trevor Ariza (lakers 2009). His play during the playoffs gave him a fat contract on the Rockets, never the same player.

JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2013, 05:02 PM
Same for Steve Kerr? Hodges? We are talking about being (arguably anyways) the games most impactful player on an entire side of the court, Inarguably the games All-Time best rebounder. Kerr is just an elite 3pt spot up shooter with nowhere near the overall influence on the game, thats not a good comparison.

I guess I can see where you're going with Vinnie but I think it would make more sense to use a guy who is actually a superior player to Rodman. That you're lumping Rodman with these chumps is kind of proving my point.


How about, every player has a role, thus every player is a role player? Some players have more diverse roles, but not necessarily more important ones. So any presumed weight people want to add to the label is flawed to begin with. If a "role player" can have a greater impact than a non-role player, then whats the significance of the label? BTW, what is the level between being a role player and being a star? Or are there only stars and everyone else? If thats the case, the better question would be defining what makes a star...

Just my 2 cents.

That said, I should have contributed more to the thread than point out Rodman. I KNOW what you guys are saying, its essentially the most clutch non-primary scorers on championship teams.


I agree with you. The term 'role player' means different things to different people, but for most means somebody with a limited game and who focus on one or two things. In that definition, Rodman may fit as a role player.

For me though, his impact (like Mutmbo and Ben Wallace) was SO high, even if all he did was defend and rebound, that he was an All-Star and HOFer.

I guess a better definition might be somebody who doesn't lead their team in any statistical category and doesn't finish in the top 3 or 4 for minutes on their team, but who provides a niche and fills a role that enables that stars of the team to do what they do best and make up for any of their potential short comings.


As is the case with most conversations, it is perhaps best to start off with a definition of what you are talking about and what you mean so that everybody is on the same page.

3RDASYSTEM
07-29-2013, 05:15 PM
Another name/season:
Trevor Ariza (lakers 2009). His play during the playoffs gave him a fat contract on the Rockets, never the same player.

Ariza was the same player before and after the deal, why not cause of injuries? that's only reason why he wasn't never the same player, ROCKETS gave him that deal just like they were desperate pre HARDEN-HOWARD combo(see lin and asik for latest example), look at linsanity in ROCKETS while injured for most part? let me guess he's not the same dleaguer turned fringe forced starter? his game is the same just like ASIK who did the same exact thing in HOUSTON as he did prior in CHITOWN but with more minutes under his belt to get that elusive 10ppg, we all knew he could grab boards at high rate and play underrated interior man on man defense but that still didn't change ASIK as a player since they went out and got the best big in the game, I wonder why? ASIK is the same player right?

This is why I know that ******** PER/WS%eFG/ETC ETC ETC(rings rings rings) has ****ed up rating the best actual players, and its really the non players who would always talk about being 'efficient', legends past and present just want to win games, rather that be in reg. season or playoffs, not about looking cute and making 60pct of shots or 70pct of shots, just winning, see SHAQ free throws in postseason critical moments(vs KINGS), doesn't matter SHAQ was a notorious ****** FT shooter, he made'em in postseason 'when' it mattered most right?

that's how I look at best of the best of players, they are just better not because of pct of what they can actually physically do on the hardwood, or isn't something that im missing?

its now you have player a with a 18.9 PER and player b with a 20.5 PER and say player b is better instead of watching the game and seeing who is capable of doing what on the court and judging it from there, gameplanning/shots per game all go into how good you are individually and how ****** or good your team is without that certain player


So ARIZA is more ASIK than IVERSON-LEBRON impact-game just from watching or no? because every player is paid on how they 'play' right,,especially contract season or no? if ASIK or ARIZA were 80million type players then they would have gotten paid like KD-WESTBROOK or even a RONDO ty0pe 55mill deal, instead they were battling it out for poison pill contracts, you know the kind that avg to good players get,hustle type specialists or media hype tools(TEBOW,LIN) to get ratings, but TEBOW/LIN can play a little bit, just nothing like it seems

at least TEBOW did win a HEISMAN and NCAA title and NFL playoff game to sort of maximize TEBOWMANIA, LIN was just too much NYC media hype for a d leaguer turned NYC part time full time starter

its more like he had a good run than being a annually dominant type player, but he was still the same player, he got over paid and still didn't get a major money deal, just for him it was major, which isn't a bad thing you just are who you are

its very easy to decide who is a franchise role player and a lower level-allstar role tye player if you can just watch'em play for a yr or so, what more do you need to see? DUNCAN weakness was FT when he entered the 97' draft and now its still a weakness he has 'improved' on, how much did that effect DUNCAN and his overall game he displayed? not really much at all until I hear people talk about how he improved his FT, or stayed stagnant for yrs prior to improving, same with SHAQ, he never could shoot throws, same with BYNUM who is a decent FT shooter and will always be for most part

the cliché in all of sports = you are who you are( go ask any player who actually played any sport)

PAU and NIQUE was/is franchise type player but not on the level of SHAQ/LEBRON to me, see the difference? SHAQ/BRON are basically annual trips to the FINALS, or right there on cusp,Conference Finals

same with CP3, he is not on the level of a ultimate franchise player like a IVERSON/ZEKE/TINY but he is about as close as you get, its much closer than a PAU/SHAQ type of debate for the record, CP3 is no threat every night to get 30+pts and 10+ dimes, those 3 were, any given night with talent or not, especially when given no relief like IVERSON, its pretty much 40 and 10 but give him another all nba and it goes down to 25 and up to 12apg, it really don't get no more basic than that

Im just speaking for my damn self and seeing it from my viewpoint, the rest of you can drown in your own un knowing franchise role player vs all star role player and using a PER/eFG ******** to figure out the cream of the crop

allstar doesn't = all nba player

all nba player annually = franchise player(max deal, teams shuffling for cap space to sign you upon free agency)

next time I go play ball im going to use the PER to 'rank' players at the gym and get laughed right out the gym in the process

ARIZA/ASIK are prime examples of a specialist type player maxing out a once in a lifetime $$ deal because they got hot or played contract yr very good, ARIZA being the better player to me but a big is more a premium in todays small ball type league so ASIK gets the nod since he does seem to have more trade value on the market, but its close and depends on what your team could use more

if you happen to get lost when reading this, just start over and read very carefully, you're welcome

the avenger
07-29-2013, 05:26 PM
Anthony Mason
Dennis Rodman
AC Green
Stephen Jackson
Manu Ginobili
Dennis Scott
Nick Anderson
Michael Cooper
Danny Fortson
Jerome Williams
Dikembe Mutombo
Toni Kukoc
Danny Ainge
Donyell Marshall
Delonte West
Marcus Camby
Bill Laimbeer
Bobby Jackson
Mario Elie
John Paxson
Derek Harper

to name a few

MTar786
07-29-2013, 09:19 PM
Know your role.. and shut your mouth!

Trueblue2
07-29-2013, 09:39 PM
So rodman is a role player because his impact was mainly on one side of the ball (defense) but guys who only really positively impact offense (melo,nash,etc.) are considered stars.

In the eyes of the media rodman might be a role player, but in terms of impacting the game he was a star.

If criteria for role player is 'incomplete game' then im taking nash, melo, and iverson on my all time great role player team. Rodman was a 2nd/3rd star, not a role player. It jusy so happens defense is what made him a star and not offense. If you consistently change the game in your teams favor whenever youre on the floor youre a star, if you do so only when called upon youre a role player.

The term 'role player' is a misnomer, if it actually meant 'excels at one aspect of the game but is average to below averahe in others.' Then theres no way you can call rodman a role player and iverson a star without arguing that offense is more important than defense and rebounds. If the measure of a star is his effect on the outcome of a game then rodman is definitely a star.

bagwell368
07-29-2013, 10:03 PM
multiple time allstars , hofers to be exact, and on the offical top 50 list should by no means be included in any role player list.

Sorry. They were role players early in their careers, and as such they were real good. I'm not talking about them as starters. Starters are not role players.

TrueFan420
07-29-2013, 10:06 PM
Starters are not role players.

Um what are you talking about?

Tony Allen is a starter but he is nothing more than a role player.

Thabo same for OKC.

The list goes on but im on my phone and don't wanna write them all out.

bagwell368
07-29-2013, 10:09 PM
Um what are you talking about?

Tony Allen is a starter but he is nothing more than a role player.

Thabo same for OKC.

The list goes on but im on my phone and don't wanna write them all out.

I'm talking about the 3 Celt sixth men who were role players and not starters for large periods of their careers. I'm not talking about anyone else, and I'm not interested in getting into a semantic battle on guys that started but played less then 24 MPG.

bagwell368
07-29-2013, 10:09 PM
dupe

Lakersfan2483
07-29-2013, 11:09 PM
I've seen the Top 10 players ever thread plenty of times here, however I am not sure if anyone ever posted a Top 10 for role players.

A good role player is a vital part of any basketball team and can really turn the team around. Throughout the years we have seen plenty of great role players make incredible plays. However, who are the Top 10?

Some of the best ones that come to my mind, are probably Charles Oakley, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Bruce Bowen, Michael Cooper, Vinnie Johnson, Manu (in his earlier years), Jason Terry, Robert Horry, Dennis Rodman...etc.

Who is your Top 10?

Also, if you want you can put the year/team that the particular player was especially impressive.

Example:

Robert Horry - 2002 Lakers.

I don't have a definitive top ten list, however all of these guys are some of the best role players I have seen:

Toni Kukoc
Robert Horry
Derek Fisher
Dennis Rodman
Vinnie Johnson
Mario Ellie
Danny Ainge
Michael Cooper
Byron Scott
Bruce Bowen

el hidalgo
07-29-2013, 11:10 PM
Kobe 2008+. He gave up defense and became an offensive specialist.

Lo Porto
07-29-2013, 11:14 PM
Rodman aint no role player, Im annoyed that people think scoring is the only area that can get rid of the "role player" label.

Agree 100%

Bruno
07-29-2013, 11:18 PM
Fishers 2001 post-season run stands out as a great one among true role players. 15.6 PER, .618 TS%, .207 WS/48, 2.5 WS, 36 mpg, lead the post-season in offensive rating.

Lo Porto
07-29-2013, 11:43 PM
A role player can be a starter who is there for one main purpose (like Kyle Korver is for shooting) but mainly they are bench guys with a focus (rebounding/post play, perimeter D, shooting, etc.).

scissors
07-30-2013, 02:31 AM
I'm gonna be a homer here and name the raptors top ten.

1. Donyell Marshall
2. Antonio Davis
3. Amir Johnson
4. Morris Peterson
5. Doug Christie
6. Jose Calderon
7. Jerome Williams
8. Charles Oakley
9. Anthony Parker
10. Keon Clark

honourable mention; Dell Curry, Matt Bonner, Chris Childs, Jorge Garbajosa, Lamond Murray

The bolded were actually all time great role players.

JWorthy42
07-30-2013, 02:33 AM
Guys, once again mention the year/team the player played on to make it easy.

For example, Ray Allen on the Heat is a great role player but in his prime he was a star.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-30-2013, 02:33 AM
Depends who you consider a role player.

rocketfuel
07-30-2013, 03:45 AM
Horry should be #1 on the list. He saved the Lakers season with that miraculous shot and came up big for the Spurs and Rockets. He's one of those players you root for no matter what jersey he has on. After that shot against the Kings, I was like "No way!!!" and rewound it like 50 times. He had the Reggie Miller/Michael Jordan flair for the dramatic.

rocketfuel
07-30-2013, 03:47 AM
I think that Rodman debate will be raging on for another 10 pages. Because the guy had superstar rebounding talent, but was also brought in for a very specific role for the Bulls. The Bulls already had big stars and they kind of tolerated him like a relative at a barbecue because they needed his talent.

kblo247
07-30-2013, 03:56 AM
Horry should be #1 on the list. He saved the Lakers season with that miraculous shot and came up big for the Spurs and Rockets. He's one of those players you root for no matter what jersey he has on. After that shot against the Kings, I was like "No way!!!" and rewound it like 50 times. He had the Reggie Miller/Michael Jordan flair for the dramatic.

This he did, but he played with three other role players in Fisher, Fox, and Shaw who also had the same flare. In fact Fisher had his turned on and up throughout every season while the other three coasted till the playoffs and big RS games

Chronz
07-30-2013, 01:31 PM
Fishers 2001 post-season run stands out as a great one among true role players. 15.6 PER, .618 TS%, .207 WS/48, 2.5 WS, 36 mpg, lead the post-season in offensive rating.
Game changing Role player post seasons are curious. If Fisher produced like this regularly, he wouldn't be a role player, but sometimes the stars align just right, that a guy like Fisher becomes incredibly valuable/productive. Like Chris Anderson with the Heat this year. Amazing production from a guy they picked up a few weeks before the Post Season.

I dont know if this tops Fishers in anything other than surprise factor, but when Robert Horry joined the Spurs (After that horrid showing against them) I figured his career was winding down. Then he puts up another stellar PS campaign in 05 with YET ANOTHER ballsy shot in the clutch.