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JasonJohnHorn
07-28-2013, 12:18 PM
On my Facebook feed, the NBA page had a list of the top ten players without a ring. Who do you think is the best player without a ring? I'm allowing multiple choices, but please only select three.

My apologies if I didn't include a guy you like. I did not put Elgin Baylor on there because he did play for the championship Lakers even though he retired part way into the regular season. I know guys on ten-day contracts who get signed by the team but don't make the playoff roster still get a ring now, but I'm not sure what the rules were back then.

Also, I did not include active players (Carter, Melo, CP3) as they may still get a ring. McGrady, I assume is done, so I included him, though I may be wrong on that count.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 01:00 PM
Barkley in a landslide to me.

2-ONE-5
07-28-2013, 01:06 PM
move AI ahead of Nash and the order of the pool is good for me

Big Zo
07-28-2013, 01:07 PM
Tie with Barkley and Malone.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 01:40 PM
who the hell is voting for Patrick Ewing or Allen Iverson?

OceanSpray
07-28-2013, 02:05 PM
Barkley>Malone easily.

Cal827
07-28-2013, 02:07 PM
who the hell is voting for Patrick Ewing or Allen Iverson?

Knick Fans and some of the AI homers.

Cal827
07-28-2013, 02:08 PM
Malone in my opinion

FraziersKnicks
07-28-2013, 02:14 PM
Chuck

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 02:14 PM
Walt Bellamy
John Stockton
Karl Malone

in that order.for me

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 02:15 PM
SHouldnt George Gervin and Artis Gilmore had made the list btw?

Celtic4LIFE
07-28-2013, 02:20 PM
The chuckster

cmellofan15
07-28-2013, 02:25 PM
McGrady made the list over Pistol Pete & Alex English.

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 02:32 PM
McGrady made the list over Pistol Pete & Alex English.



id take tmac in his uninjured prime over pistol all flash no susbtance no defense and alex chuking show with 0 defense english 365 times a year and twice on christmas.

TheNumber37
07-28-2013, 02:36 PM
Malone and Barkley.

I'm actually giving the nod to Malone over Charles, because he was close so many times.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 02:38 PM
McGrady made the list over Pistol Pete & Alex English.

as he should. Neither can hold McGrady's jock

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 02:38 PM
It blows me away how people forget how awesome Barkley was

nyKnicks126
07-28-2013, 02:38 PM
If Barkley wasn't such an idiot he might have won a title... and actually I am glad he didn't though. Bitter ****!

3RDASYSTEM
07-28-2013, 02:54 PM
who the hell is voting for Patrick Ewing or Allen Iverson?

Probably the same people voting for BARKLEY in a landslide

BARKLEY in a landslide? and even he admits he didn't play or care to play a lick of D

BARKLEY in a landslide is the funniest **** I've heard when ranking 'best' players to never win it all

and I mean CHAPPELLE/PRYOR type funny combo
some of you guys on here either over rank a player or over rank yourself on evaluating a player

3RDASYSTEM
07-28-2013, 02:57 PM
It blows me away how people forget how awesome Barkley was

Nobody forgets its just players like EWING/IVERSON/TMAC/NIQUE/MALONE were no pushovers

BARKLEY is no landslide over IVERSON-TMAC as far as on court game-impact

I got BARKLEY in my top list of best players ever so we really don't have a debate outside of the 'landslide' comment you made

3RDASYSTEM
07-28-2013, 03:00 PM
It blows me away how people forget how awesome Barkley was

I say the same thing about BUBBACHUCK

what a joy to watch, him and the other CHUCK,CB34

todu82
07-28-2013, 03:24 PM
Karl Malone.

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 03:32 PM
It blows me away how people forget how awesome Barkley was
Yep, one of the greatest offensive pf all time, there with Dirk, or Issell, or Webber, or My boy Pau.


BUT, the problema is these dudes, Tim, Kevin, Kevin II, Karl played BOTH ends of the floor.

So the aforementioend have to go behind these dudes in any discussion :D

tredigs
07-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Yep, one of the greatest offensive pf all time, there with Dirk, or Issell, or Webber, or My boy Pau.


BUT, the problema is these dudes, Tim, Kevin, Kevin II, Karl played BOTH ends of the floor.

So the aforementioend have to go behind these dudes in any discussion :D

Yeah but it's not like Malone was an elite defender. He was good, not great. And Charles was not a detriment to their D, he just didn't like it. Slightly better offensively and as a rebounder than Malone, though.

I have trouble ranking Malone higher than Stockton. IMO their dominance goes hand in hand and their impact was equal. I'd take peak Barkley over both, though.

carlthack
07-28-2013, 03:53 PM
The greatest to ever lace 'em up who never won a championship was by FAR the legendary Elgin Baylor. If he would have stayed on that '72 team til the end he wouldve had one but he didnt.
I cant believe he isnt even on that poll. smh.

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 03:59 PM
Yeah but it's not like Malone was an elite defender. He was good, not great. And Charles was not a detriment to their D, he just didn't like it. Slightly better offensively and as a rebounder than Malone, though.

I have trouble ranking Malone higher than Stockton. IMO their dominance goes hand in hand and their impact was equal. I'd take peak Barkley over both, though.

Dont worry, ive always defended the umpopular opinión that Stockton was the one with the pants in the relationship.

smith&wesson
07-28-2013, 04:23 PM
barkley
malone
stockton


.... people dont realize how similar barkleys numbers were to duncans. malone as well.

Minimal
07-28-2013, 04:50 PM
Malone for me.

sunsfan88
07-28-2013, 05:07 PM
Isn't it crazy that LeBron would have been on this list just two years ago?

TheMightyHumph
07-28-2013, 05:28 PM
Issel & Artis got rings in the ABA.

I'd say Stockton and Bernard King

b@llhog24
07-28-2013, 05:40 PM
Barkley in a landslide to me.

+1

JAZZNC
07-28-2013, 05:41 PM
I don't think it's that people forget how good Charles is they just think others are better. I would go with Malone and Stockton over Barkley in this list. Know that sounds like a homerism but I think that they were better players over their careers. Picking one though I'd go with Stockton.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 05:42 PM
Probably the same people voting for BARKLEY in a landslide

BARKLEY in a landslide? and even he admits he didn't play or care to play a lick of D

BARKLEY in a landslide is the funniest **** I've heard when ranking 'best' players to never win it all

and I mean CHAPPELLE/PRYOR type funny combo
some of you guys on here either over rank a player or over rank yourself on evaluating a player

Barkley has said a lot of things. His defense was always criticized, but then you spit out Nique or Malone, neither defended well. Iverson? Omg not even close.

This is Barkley here. None of the other guys you listed stack up to prime Chuck.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barklch01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

I love Malone's longevity, and he had some great years, but Chuck's peak rivals the greatest PF of all time

Riodagoat
07-28-2013, 06:19 PM
Easily Barkley.

Barkley is already cocky as **** right now. Can you imagine how he would've been if he actually won a ring? lol

mrblisterdundee
07-28-2013, 06:33 PM
I voted for Karl Malone and John Stockton.
Malone was comparable to but slightly better than, in my opinion, Charles Barkley. And I don't think anyone ever ran an offense better than John Stockton.
You're looking at probably the best point guard and the second best power forward all-time.

mrblisterdundee
07-28-2013, 06:39 PM
The greatest to ever lace 'em up who never won a championship was by FAR the legendary Elgin Baylor. If he would have stayed on that '72 team til the end he wouldve had one but he didnt.
I cant believe he isnt even on that poll. smh.

I think this guy has just schooled us all a little bit on NBA history.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 06:40 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2013&p2=garneke01&y2=2013&p3=barklch01&y3=2000&p4=malonka01&y4=2004&p5=nowitdi01&y5=2013

Barkley is the better of the Malone/Barkley comparison, pretty easily. In fact, I have him ahead of KG for all time at the position.

Duncan
Barkley
KG
Dirk/Malone (same to me)

KG was a monster defensively, but his playoff dip just drops him below Barkley.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-28-2013, 07:00 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2013&p2=garneke01&y2=2013&p3=barklch01&y3=2000&p4=malonka01&y4=2004&p5=nowitdi01&y5=2013

Barkley is the better of the Malone/Barkley comparison, pretty easily. In fact, I have him ahead of KG for all time at the position.

Duncan
Barkley
KG
Dirk/Malone (same to me)

KG was a monster defensively, but his playoff dip just drops him below Barkley.

Damn, did not know Barkley was that efficient. Also had the highest offensive rebounding rate over all of them.. by a long shot. Vote goes to Barkley.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 07:05 PM
Damn, did not know Barkley was that efficient. Also had the highest offensive rebounding rate over all of them.. by a long shot. Vote goes to Barkley.

highest TS%, eFG%, Offensive rebound rate, Offensive rating, and steal rate between he, Duncan, KG, Malone, or Dirk (the top 5 PF's).

Come playoffs, he took all those, as well as rebound rate, and only Dirk ties him in Offensive rating.

Chuck was an absolute beast.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2013, 07:06 PM
I didn't realize how beast Dirk was in the playoffs. I mean, I did from the eye test, but his advanced stats show awesomeness. The only reason I have KG ahead of him is defense, period.

Hellcrooner
07-28-2013, 10:11 PM
I didn't realize how beast Dirk was in the playoffs. I mean, I did from the eye test, but his advanced stats show awesomeness. The only reason I have KG ahead of him is defense, period.

an his passing, his rebounding his iq, his athleticism.
Kg ***** on Dirk everyday and twice on sundays.

TheMightyHumph
07-28-2013, 10:32 PM
If Barkley had brains for basketball in addition to his incredible talent for the game, he would have won a Title.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-29-2013, 12:06 AM
I would say Barkley, but I think a vote for either Malone or Stockton is at least understandable.

carlthack
07-29-2013, 02:01 AM
I already did a post on this but Im a little pissed off that this turned into a Barkely vs Karl Malone debate. Those two guys look like chumps next to Elgin Baylor. A lot of people forget how dominant Baylor was.

This is a guy who in '61 averaged 35 pts and 20 rebounds per game. And the next year, his numbers got even BETTER! He was the first "freakish" athlete the NBA had ever seen. He revolutionized the game, being the first player who could jump and hang in the air when everyone else couldnt even jump over a yellow pages book.

I think the main reason Elgin Baylor has been forgotten is because he never won a ring.

tredigs
07-29-2013, 02:20 AM
I already did a post on this but Im a little pissed off that this turned into a Barkely vs Karl Malone debate. Those two guys look like chumps next to Elgin Baylor. A lot of people forget how dominant Baylor was.

This is a guy who in '61 averaged 35 pts and 20 rebounds per game. And the next year, his numbers got even BETTER! He was the first "freakish" athlete the NBA had ever seen. He revolutionized the game, being the first player who could jump and hang in the air when everyone else couldnt even jump over a yellow pages book.

I think the main reason Elgin Baylor has been forgotten is because he never won a ring.

Recognize that per-game averages were FAR higher back then due to pace, most defenses were weak then, and he wasn't an efficient scorer (career 43% FG in comparison to his teammate West at 47.4%). Not to discount the Celtics, but playing your whole career alongside Jerry West (even a couple later with Jerry AND Wilt... lol @ ''nobody could jump over paper'' considering Wilt was there btw) when most of the time you were in the NBA Finals after a single series win is pretty underwhelming.

Amazing offensive player and a top 5 player of that generation, but Chuck > Baylor. Stockton and Malone too, imo. Still, he should absolutely be on the list.

carlthack
07-29-2013, 03:42 AM
Recognize that per-game averages were FAR higher back then due to pace, most defenses were weak then, and he wasn't an efficient scorer (career 43% FG in comparison to his teammate West at 47.4%). Not to discount the Celtics, but playing your whole career alongside Jerry West (even a couple later with Jerry AND Wilt... lol @ ''nobody could jump over paper'' considering Wilt was there btw) when most of the time you were in the NBA Finals after a single series win is pretty underwhelming.

Amazing offensive player and a top 5 player of that generation, but Chuck > Baylor. Stockton and Malone too, imo. Still, he should absolutely be on the list.

Wilt didnt get to the league until Baylor's 2nd year. And .431 is pretty damn good considering Allen Iverson's career fg% was .425 and he's considered a legend.

BklynKnicks3
07-29-2013, 09:37 AM
it barkley or iverson to but where is melo? he is better then half those guys

BklynKnicks3
07-29-2013, 09:38 AM
where is elgin baylor you people are nuts lol. If u talk to people who grew up in that era some of them say he was the best player ever

Sly Guy
07-29-2013, 10:20 AM
com'on people, malone was a far better player than barkley.

Hawkeye15
07-29-2013, 10:26 AM
an his passing, his rebounding his iq, his athleticism.
Kg ***** on Dirk everyday and twice on sundays.

Not come playoff time dude.

Hawkeye15
07-29-2013, 10:32 AM
I already did a post on this but Im a little pissed off that this turned into a Barkely vs Karl Malone debate. Those two guys look like chumps next to Elgin Baylor. A lot of people forget how dominant Baylor was.

This is a guy who in '61 averaged 35 pts and 20 rebounds per game. And the next year, his numbers got even BETTER! He was the first "freakish" athlete the NBA had ever seen. He revolutionized the game, being the first player who could jump and hang in the air when everyone else couldnt even jump over a yellow pages book.

I think the main reason Elgin Baylor has been forgotten is because he never won a ring.

pace dude. Need to adjust for it. They played with roughly 25-30 more possessions a game back then.

I have done this before.

43 mpg, 125 possessions per game (in the two years you are referring to).

Lets translate LeBron's stats to that:

minute multipler: 1.135 (Bron plays 37.9 mpg)

Possession multiplier: 1.34 (125 possession per game versus 93)

LeBron's numbers, in 1961- 40.7 ppg, 11.1 apg, 12.2 rpg

Obviously not an exact science, but you get my drift.

TKK4Never
07-29-2013, 12:34 PM
If you guys read the first post you'll see his explanation for not including Baylor, or any active players.

kblo247
07-29-2013, 01:18 PM
Malone. Chuck not winning is on chuck. He played with more talent than Karl, just didnt keep himself in shape or try to defend. Karl went ham for 2 decades, got a weak Utah team there outside Stockton b2b years, and as a Laker he defended Yao, KG, and Tim well before his knee blew out. Karl without a doubt. Saying Barkely, is akin to saying Nash deserves a ring and ignoring all the fn talent he's played with only to not he it done

ghettosean
07-29-2013, 02:13 PM
Malone. Chuck not winning is on chuck. He played with more talent than Karl, just didnt keep himself in shape or try to defend. Karl went ham for 2 decades, got a weak Utah team there outside Stockton b2b years, and as a Laker he defended Yao, KG, and Tim well before his knee blew out. Karl without a doubt. Saying Barkely, is akin to saying Nash deserves a ring and ignoring all the fn talent he's played with only to not he it done

This... I don't even care about his Laker days because they were short lived but he took a crappy Utah team (excluding Stockton) and took them to the final multiple times. It's just unfortunate for him that when he made it to the finals he was playing a Bulls team lead by the GOAT in Jordan... If MJ wasn't wasn't there to face Malone in the finals then he wouldn't be on this list right now.

TheMightyHumph
07-29-2013, 03:16 PM
This... I don't even care about his Laker days because they were short lived but he took a crappy Utah team (excluding Stockton) and took them to the final multiple times. It's just unfortunate for him that when he made it to the finals he was playing a Bulls team lead by the GOAT in Jordan... If MJ wasn't wasn't there to face Malone in the finals then he wouldn't be on this list right now.

And if Jordan had been there vs. Rockets, Hakeem might be on that list right now

heyman321
07-29-2013, 03:29 PM
Stockton/Malone easily

NoahH
07-29-2013, 03:34 PM
DEFINITELY Bob Lanier.. No JK

It's Barkley followed by Malone

ghettosean
07-29-2013, 03:42 PM
And if Jordan had been there vs. Rockets, Hakeem might be on that list right now

He would probably be leading the polls by a landslide!

JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2013, 05:17 PM
I voted for Barkley, Malone and Stockton, because each were among the very best at their positions ever. I don't see any of the three being really any better than any of the two who would be compared to them.


People grossly underrate Stockton though.

ghettosean
07-29-2013, 05:27 PM
I voted for Barkley, Malone and Stockton, because each were among the very best at their positions ever. I don't see any of the three being really any better than any of the two who would be compared to them.


People grossly underrate Stockton though.

Agreed definately the best PG of all time not named Magic! Though I still don't put him at the top of the list of the names mentioned in this debate.

the avenger
07-29-2013, 05:28 PM
Barkley and Malone

tredigs
07-29-2013, 05:32 PM
Malone. Chuck not winning is on chuck. He played with more talent than Karl, just didnt keep himself in shape or try to defend. Karl went ham for 2 decades, got a weak Utah team there outside Stockton b2b years, and as a Laker he defended Yao, KG, and Tim well before his knee blew out. Karl without a doubt. Saying Barkely, is akin to saying Nash deserves a ring and ignoring all the fn talent he's played with only to not he it done


Haha can you call a team ''weak'' when you're a top 20 all time player and have someone alognside you just as good as you are? Plus, Byron Russell + Ostertag were pretty solid role players and Hornacek was VERY good. Chuck ran into Jordan's Bulls in the finals just as the Jazz did. He put up 27/14/4 in the playoffs and and even in the finals an ultra efficient 40+ point double double against Chi... they still lost. Definitely not on him. Hell even that 42/13/4 game in the finals, MJ just went and one upped him and put up 42/12/9.

You're massively underrating how much help Malone had because frankly it's just as true to say that you're massively underrating how much help Stockton had. Personally, watching all those series live, I always felt that Stockton showed as the best player on the court for Utah.

the avenger
07-29-2013, 05:36 PM
haha can you call a team ''weak'' when you're a top 20 all time player and have someone alognside you just as good as you are? Plus, byron russell + ostertag were pretty solid role players and hornacek was very good. Chuck ran into jordan's bulls in the finals just as the jazz did. He put up 27/14/4 in the playoffs and and even in the finals an ultra efficient 40+ point double double against chi... They still lost. Definitely not on him. Hell even that 42/13/4 game in the finals, mj just went and one upped him and put up

you're massively underrating how much help malone had because frankly it's just as true to say that you're massively underrating how much help stockton had. Personally, watching all those series live, i always felt that stockton showed as the best player on the court for utah. this

Bruno
07-29-2013, 05:41 PM
notice most of these guys were mediocre defenders at best.

mvp caliber players who also frequent all defensive teams usually don't retire ringless.

3RDASYSTEM
07-29-2013, 05:42 PM
Knick Fans and some of the AI homers.

Actually people who know about playing ball

nobody at 5'10'' will ever run the SG position based on team needs, CP3 cant do it, ROSE showed a flash in the pan moment until ECF shutdown in crunchtime by BRON

at 5'10' he was asked and delivered 30 shots a nite basically, covering up for MCKIE/SNOW on perimeter and the lack of inside game that KENNY THOMAS and MCCULLOUGH and DEKE and TYRONE HILL couldn't do and he gets punished for it after taking that same core to a FINALS berth against SHAQ led dynasty(4FINALS in 5yrs)

EWING was defensive ace who took his offensive game to almost match that so how in the hell is that so damn fanatical or homerismish?

I think the tattooes and arm sleeve and headband has thrown off your thinking but it shouldn't since LEBRON-MELO and others have kept the AI tradition alive and well in NBA, another reason why STERN wont bring him back, he influenced the face of the league to dress just like him on the court

if you non players don't like IVERSON because of how he acted and dressed then more power to you but when it comes to talking about what he displayed on the hardwood, he is easily one of the 'best' to ever do it

I don't care about his off or on court attitude, im speaking strictly hardwood game(shooting,dribbling,toughness,high skillset,freak athlete, undersized but tough as rusty nail,no fear, play hard for his team), now I think of it if I were you guys I wouldn't like IVERSON either having all that in 1 player under 5'11''

unreal

TheMightyHumph
07-29-2013, 05:45 PM
Actually people who know about playing ball

nobody at 5'10'' will ever run the SG position based on team needs, CP3 cant do it, ROSE showed a flash in the pan moment until ECF shutdown in crunchtime by BRON

at 5'10' he was asked and delivered 30 shots a nite basically, covering up for MCKIE/SNOW on perimeter and the lack of inside game that KENNY THOMAS and MCCULLOUGH and DEKE and TYRONE HILL couldn't do and he gets punished for it after taking that same core to a FINALS berth against SHAQ led dynasty(4FINALS in 5yrs)

EWING was defensive ace who took his offensive game to almost match that so how in the hell is that so damn fanatical or homerismish?

I think the tattooes and arm sleeve and headband has thrown off your thinking but it shouldn't since LEBRON-MELO and others have kept the AI tradition alive and well in NBA, another reason why STERN wont bring him back, he influenced the face of the league to dress just like him on the court

if you non players don't like IVERSON because of how he acted and dressed then more power to you but when it comes to talking about what he displayed on the hardwood, he is easily one of the 'best' to ever do it

I don't care about his off or on court attitude, im speaking strictly hardwood game(shooting,dribbling,toughness,high skillset,freak athlete, undersized but tough as rusty nail,no fear, play hard for his team), now I think of it if I were you guys I wouldn't like IVERSON either having all that in 1 player under 5'11''

unreal

So, you like Iverson, right?

3RDASYSTEM
07-29-2013, 05:56 PM
notice most of these guys were mediocre defenders at best.

mvp caliber players who also frequent all defensive teams usually don't retire ringless.


is a mediocre defender a 3x blocks leader in a row? or steals leader? or what about leader in deflections? I feel all MVP players or caliber can do both at highest level when mind is locked and focused

im sure all could have played defense but we all know where the gravy is in bball, putting the ball In the bucket

EWING wasn't mediocre,NASH is the only one on the list who wasn't very capable of D, BARKLEY could play he just wasn't interested so didn't do it much, same with MALONE but MALONE had that patented hand swipe when he would get you good for most part and avoided fouls

STOCKTON was decent to good defender, IVERSON could play damn good on ball defense if he didn't have to shoot and score 30 a night but he managed to still lead the league 3x in a row steals per game, also 10 in a playoff game, he was insanely good at reading the lanes and anticipating(BRON is latest example)

defense is more so scheme than a individual, because last I checked WALLACE/ARTEST/DEKE/GASOL/CHANDLER all anchored a team defense, nothing about them solo shutting down an entire player or players in a game who was all nba/star caliber, but they reaped the reward benefit for being the lynchpin of it,

they didn't REVIS island no player, it doesn't work that way in the NBA, well not in NFL either if REVIS had to face a 98' MOSS weekly, it would be burned up REVIS island, get my drift?

slashsnake
07-29-2013, 06:20 PM
Iverson wasn't a good defender because of his steals. He'd gamble a LOT. Either get the steal, or his guy would cut to the hoop for a wide open layup. He'd get posted up a lot, and go for the steal and either get that or give up the open layup.

And there's a difference like you said about great players. Ben Wallace for example was able to cover Shaq and give up 25 and 12 a night.. One on One. No double team, no open looks for Kobe and company, and they won a ring.

Hawkeye15
07-29-2013, 07:16 PM
Actually people who know about playing ball

nobody at 5'10'' will ever run the SG position based on team needs, CP3 cant do it, ROSE showed a flash in the pan moment until ECF shutdown in crunchtime by BRON

at 5'10' he was asked and delivered 30 shots a nite basically, covering up for MCKIE/SNOW on perimeter and the lack of inside game that KENNY THOMAS and MCCULLOUGH and DEKE and TYRONE HILL couldn't do and he gets punished for it after taking that same core to a FINALS berth against SHAQ led dynasty(4FINALS in 5yrs)

EWING was defensive ace who took his offensive game to almost match that so how in the hell is that so damn fanatical or homerismish?

I think the tattooes and arm sleeve and headband has thrown off your thinking but it shouldn't since LEBRON-MELO and others have kept the AI tradition alive and well in NBA, another reason why STERN wont bring him back, he influenced the face of the league to dress just like him on the court

if you non players don't like IVERSON because of how he acted and dressed then more power to you but when it comes to talking about what he displayed on the hardwood, he is easily one of the 'best' to ever do it

I don't care about his off or on court attitude, im speaking strictly hardwood game(shooting,dribbling,toughness,high skillset,freak athlete, undersized but tough as rusty nail,no fear, play hard for his team), now I think of it if I were you guys I wouldn't like IVERSON either having all that in 1 player under 5'11''

unreal

dude, you listed AI as a top 5 player ever in another thread. Please.

JordansBulls
07-29-2013, 07:58 PM
Malone and then Barkley. Malone is higher careerwise than Barkley, but Barkley had a greater peak.