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basch152
07-26-2013, 11:07 PM
So the last few days, I've been trying to explain to someone that just because a player has a higher FG% than another player, it doesn't mean they have a better shot. I've tried explaining that athleticism, and good ability to create separation, among other things can increase your FG% without necessarily meaning you have a better shot, but it doesn't seem to get through.

I've also tried using Rondo as an example. Rondo has a higher career FG% than Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, and many other all time great shooters, but is notorious for having a below average jump shot, but it just doesn't sink in with this guy.

So I have to ask, am I just crazy? Or is this guy just completely incapable of comprehending this concept.

John Walls Era
07-26-2013, 11:11 PM
No ****.

Player A goes 900/1000 from 5 feet out but can't make any shot outside that vs Player B who shoots 499/1000 from 20-30 feet. Who do you think should have the better shot?

tredigs
07-26-2013, 11:16 PM
Well, the #1 cause of a high FG% is being able to finish at the rim (aka dunks and layups), which is why centers have the highest FG%. Slashers that don't take many outside shots like Rondo? Same deal. Plus, FG% doesn't account for the difference between a 2 and 3, so it's always been a dumb stat ever since the NBA brought in the 3. eFG% and TS% combined with their role and the volume they're shooting is how to rate scorers. If you're talking about just pure shooting ability, show him a shot chart? NBA.com/stats

IndyRealist
07-26-2013, 11:25 PM
Well, the #1 cause of a high FG% is being able to finish at the rim (aka dunks and layups), which is why centers have the highest FG%. Slashers that don't take many outside shots like Rondo? Same deal. Plus, FG% doesn't account for the difference between a 2 and 3, so it's always been a dumb stat ever since the NBA brought in the 3. eFG% and TS% combined with their role and the volume they're shooting is how to rate scorers. If you're talking about just pure shooting ability, show him a shot chart? NBA.com/stats

+1. The gist is role. You can't only have guys who just dunk, just like you can't only have jump shooters.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2013, 01:52 AM
So the last few days, I've been trying to explain to someone that just because a player has a higher FG% than another player, it doesn't mean they have a better shot. I've tried explaining that athleticism, and good ability to create separation, among other things can increase your FG% without necessarily meaning you have a better shot, but it doesn't seem to get through.

I've also tried using Rondo as an example. Rondo has a higher career FG% than Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, and many other all time great shooters, but is notorious for having a below average jump shot, but it just doesn't sink in with this guy.

So I have to ask, am I just crazy? Or is this guy just completely incapable of comprehending this concept.

Dwight Howard is one of the best shooters in the game if we go off archaic FG%.

ombada
07-27-2013, 02:00 AM
This isnt fool proof, but try showing the guy FG% and FT% at the same time.

You could also show him a % based shooting chart that sections off the court based on distance from the basket.

both of these would be in an attempt to show him that taking more shots outside of a certain range is different than dunking and laying it in at close range. It doesnt seem to me that showing him advanced stats will work, might be a bit too thick for that.

*EDIT* Theres always a chance he is trolling you. ;)

b@llhog24
07-27-2013, 02:23 AM
True shooting percentage is a relatively simple concept to grasp.

WadeKobe
07-27-2013, 02:55 AM
Role is important. At the end of the day, I only care who has a "better shot", if they are goin to be "shooting."

You don get pouts for having a better shot. You don't get points for having better post moves. You get points when your shot goes through the basket.

JasonJohnHorn
07-27-2013, 09:12 AM
You are right and Rondo is a great example. Rondo KNOWS he can't shoot, so he only takes shots he knows he can hit, which is good. You want players like that.

Another good example is Tyson Chandler... all he does is dunk pretty much.... the highest FG% in the league several times I believe, but CLEARLY not a good shooter let alone a great shooter.

Tmath
07-27-2013, 09:37 AM
Valanciunas vs Drummond is another good example :hide:

Sly Guy
07-27-2013, 09:54 AM
just show him a shot chart. show how the floor is divided up into regions and how each will have it's own fg%.

basch152
07-27-2013, 07:49 PM
Role is important. At the end of the day, I only care who has a "better shot", if they are goin to be "shooting."

You don get pouts for having a better shot. You don't get points for having better post moves. You get points when your shot goes through the basket.

No one is arguing that. All I've been trying to get through to him is that higher FG% does not = a better shot.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2013, 07:54 PM
No one is arguing that. All I've been trying to get through to him is that higher FG% does not = a better shot.

absolutely not. TS% is a much better way to measure shooting ability, or scoring efficiency.

Guppyfighter
07-27-2013, 07:56 PM
You are right and Rondo is a great example. Rondo KNOWS he can't shoot, so he only takes shots he knows he can hit, which is good. You want players like that.

Another good example is Tyson Chandler... all he does is dunk pretty much.... the highest FG% in the league several times I believe, but CLEARLY not a good shooter let alone a great shooter.

He still misses them though.

True Sports Fan
07-27-2013, 08:08 PM
Dwight Howard is one of the best shooters in the game if we go off archaic FG%.
Tyson Chandler anyone?

tredigs
07-27-2013, 08:31 PM
absolutely not. TS% is a much better way to measure shooting ability, or scoring efficiency.

Scoring efficiency, but TS% still doesn't tell you anything inherently about shooting ability. eg Tyson leading the league in TS% every year. Non eye-test wise for shooting ability you really have to look at shot charts, or at the very least look at TS% with the volume of FT's + 3's.

tredigs
07-27-2013, 08:34 PM
Or hoopdata.com, which will show you the %'s and % assisted from different ranges.

Guppyfighter
07-27-2013, 08:36 PM
Scoring efficiency, but TS% still doesn't tell you anything inherently about shooting ability. eg Tyson leading the league in TS% every year. Non eye-test wise for shooting ability you really have to look at shot charts, or at the very least look at TS% with the volume of FT's + 3's.

Or synergy stats.

Curry shot 56 percent from corner threes, 44 percent off the dribble threes, 50 percent on spot up threes.

That **** is so cool to read. I have a mancrush on Curry.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2013, 11:17 PM
Scoring efficiency, but TS% still doesn't tell you anything inherently about shooting ability. eg Tyson leading the league in TS% every year. Non eye-test wise for shooting ability you really have to look at shot charts, or at the very least look at TS% with the volume of FT's + 3's.

agreed. If we are measuring perimeter players. TS% still matters, but location percentage and ability to get to the line matter more.