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Redsox07Champs
07-26-2013, 04:26 PM
This is purely just opinion, but I truly think the Xander Bogaerts era should begin soon. He's hitting .380 with a homer and 4 rbi's in his last 6 games. In his last 10 games, he has an OBP of .419, an OPS of 1.019 and is slugging .600. Overall in AAA, he's hitting .273 with 8 homers, 24 rbi's, an OBP of .377, slugging .492 and an OPS of .869. The offense looks like it needs a boost and both Iglesias and Drew are struggling, so why not give Bogaerts a shot? Am I the only the one on the Bogaerts bandwagon???

Nomar
07-26-2013, 04:38 PM
This is purely just opinion, but I truly think the Xander Bogaerts era should begin soon. He's hitting .380 with a homer and 4 rbi's in his last 6 games. In his last 10 games, he has an OBP of .419, an OPS of 1.019 and is slugging .600. Overall in AAA, he's hitting .273 with 8 homers, 24 rbi's, an OBP of .377, slugging .492 and an OPS of .869. The offense looks like it needs a boost and both Iglesias and Drew are struggling, so why not give Bogaerts a shot? Am I the only the one on the Bogaerts bandwagon???

Yeah you're the only one

bagwell368
07-26-2013, 04:40 PM
This is purely just opinion, but I truly think the Xander Bogaerts era should begin soon. He's hitting .380 with a homer and 4 rbi's in his last 6 games. In his last 10 games, he has an OBP of .419, an OPS of 1.019 and is slugging .600. Overall in AAA, he's hitting .273 with 8 homers, 24 rbi's, an OBP of .377, slugging .492 and an OPS of .869. The offense looks like it needs a boost and both Iglesias and Drew are struggling, so why not give Bogaerts a shot? Am I the only the one on the Bogaerts bandwagon???

Iggy's hitting is going over like an Edsel since 6/22. Drew by AL league standards is having an above average season with the bat. He's also the only vet we have between 3B/SS.

Unless the Red Sox cannot come up with Michael Young cheap, XB will have to be promoted sometime between Aug 15th and Sep 1st. Even with Young he will come, but it will be after 9/1.

XB still needs more PA's in the minors, as much as possible.

Redsox07Champs
07-26-2013, 04:41 PM
k got it

Nomar
07-26-2013, 04:44 PM
Iggy's hitting is going over like an Edsel since 6/22. Drew by AL league standards is having an above average season with the bat. He's also the only vet we have between 3B/SS.

Unless the Red Sox cannot come up with Michael Young cheap, XB will have to be promoted sometime between Aug 15th and Sep 1st. Even with Young he will come, but it will be after 9/1.

XB still needs more PA's in the minors, as much as possible.

Yeah I wouldnt bring him up just yet. He could probably use one more slump to work out of before he comes up honestly.

AI
07-26-2013, 06:12 PM
I think the plan is to get him another 150-200 AB's at AAA but I do think he's certainly capable of forcing the issue and basically forcing his way to Boston. It appears that Middlebrooks getting another look and a potential trade for a stopgap like Michael Young are plans A/B with calling up Xander being plan C.

I also think it's time that Iggy/Drew get platooned.

Drew vs RHP - .251/.342/.425, .335 wOBA, 107 wRC+
Drew vs LHP - .169/.241/.325, .249 wOBA, 48 wRC+

bagwell368
07-26-2013, 06:22 PM
I think the plan is to get him another 150-200 AB's at AAA but I do think he's certainly capable of forcing the issue and basically forcing his way to Boston. It appears that Middlebrooks getting another look and a potential trade for a stopgap like Michael Young are plans A/B with calling up Xander being plan C.

I also think it's time that Iggy/Drew get platooned.

Drew vs RHP - .251/.342/.425, .335 wOBA, 107 wRC+
Drew vs LHP - .169/.241/.325, .249 wOBA, 48 wRC+

Yeah, that works if you have a 3B. If it's Young, then he comes out for D around the 6th-7th, and Iggy goes in weather it's from SS or the bench. If it's XB it might start out that way, but if the kid is hitting it won't be long before he's in every game - even if for 2-3 innings in some cases.

Lackeyfan41
07-26-2013, 07:19 PM
I don't want to rush Xander up after what happened with WMB.

He should stay down there and come up Sept 1st.

AI
07-26-2013, 07:20 PM
I don't want to rush Xander up after what happened with WMB.

He should stay down there and come up Sept 1st.

Completely different players with completely different approaches.

Crucis
07-26-2013, 08:46 PM
I don't want to rush Xander up after what happened with WMB.

He should stay down there and come up Sept 1st.

The reason for (potentially) calling XB up before Sept 1st is so that he could be added to the team's playoff roster, without depending on one of those injury exceptions. While I'm on no screaming rush to see the Sox call him up ASAP, I do think that calling him up before 9/1 would be a wise move.

Nomar
07-26-2013, 09:04 PM
I think it's becoming clear than having iggy and drew in the lineup is not working out. The bottom of our lineup is a complete black hole.

Redsox07Champs
07-26-2013, 09:38 PM
I personally think this team needs a jolt. XB is that guy imo. Just like in 07' when Boston needed that spark, they brought up Ellsbury. We all know what happened that season. Just saying. Iggy was nice for a little while, but we all know what he is. During that month long run, whenever I would watch him get a hit, he wasn't even driving the ball. To sit here and say Drew and Iggy are the answers for the left side of the infield may need to think twice. XB will atleast make it tougher on opposing pitchers due to his ability to get on base. BC, do the right thing.

bagwell368
07-26-2013, 10:05 PM
I personally think this team needs a jolt. XB is that guy imo. Just like in 07' when Boston needed that spark, they brought up Ellsbury. We all know what happened that season. Just saying. Iggy was nice for a little while, but we all know what he is. During that month long run, whenever I would watch him get a hit, he wasn't even driving the ball. To sit here and say Drew and Iggy are the answers for the left side of the infield may need to think twice. XB will atleast make it tougher on opposing pitchers due to his ability to get on base. BC, do the right thing.

To lump Drew and Iglesias together is ridiculous AND Drew is a vet, and Iglesias and WMB are not.

If we deal for Young or bring up XB - Iggy is the one that's going to lose most of the time, not Drew. BTW, how many times do I have to hammer the board until people realize that since Drew's ST/warm up the first 11 games of the season, he's hit AND fielded well ahead of the average AL SS. Iggy can play SS against LH starters and 3B for late inning D - that's it.

tonyd3b54
07-26-2013, 10:17 PM
Drew isn't going anywhere. Even when he doesn't hit he's still going to walk, something we can't quite say for iggy despite his improved approach. Sox management is still going to wait at the very least 2 or 3 weeks until calling up Xander. This way they get him more reps at AAA and they also get to see how Iglesias responds to his first adversity this season. This way they get to see more of what they have in both players.

Although I do wish we could see Xander right now.

ruckus16969
07-27-2013, 08:48 AM
drew isn't going anywhere. Even when he doesn't hit he's still going to walk, something we can't quite say for iggy despite his improved approach. Sox management is still going to wait at the very least 2 or 3 weeks until calling up xander. This way they get him more reps at aaa and they also get to see how iglesias responds to his first adversity this season. This way they get to see more of what they have in both players.

Although i do wish we could see xander right now.

yes

Nomar
07-27-2013, 04:25 PM
-30 UZR/150 at 3B for Iggy.....

RedSoxtober
07-27-2013, 07:05 PM
I don't want to rush Xander up after what happened with WMB.

He should stay down there and come up Sept 1st.
What part of his .288/.325/.509 didn't you like? THAT is when they brought him up. He failed to live up to expectations established based on his rookie season.


I personally think this team needs a jolt. XB is that guy imo. Just like in 07' when Boston needed that spark, they brought up Ellsbury. We all know what happened that season. Just saying. Iggy was nice for a little while, but we all know what he is. During that month long run, whenever I would watch him get a hit, he wasn't even driving the ball. To sit here and say Drew and Iggy are the answers for the left side of the infield may need to think twice. XB will atleast make it tougher on opposing pitchers due to his ability to get on base. BC, do the right thing.
Ellsbury played in 7 games (all DL/injury fill ins) prior to becoming a regular after 9/1. If that's what you want for XB then you may well get it.


To lump Drew and Iglesias together is ridiculous AND Drew is a vet, and Iglesias and WMB are not.
To be honest, I dislike the heavily negative view of Drew but I cannot pretend like he's been great either. I agree with discounting the first 13 games that got him the equivalent of a good ST in terms of PA, but he's been a bit streaky (1/15 in his last several games).

Nomar
07-27-2013, 07:20 PM
What part of his .288/.325/.509 didn't you like? THAT is when they brought him up. He failed to live up to expectations established based on his rookie season.


Ellsbury played in 7 games (all DL/injury fill ins) prior to becoming a regular after 9/1. If that's what you want for XB then you may well get it.


To be honest, I dislike the heavily negative view of Drew but I cannot pretend like he's been great either. I agree with discounting the first 13 games that got him the equivalent of a good ST in terms of PA, but he's been a bit streaky (1/15 in his last several games).

Agreed

bagwell368
07-27-2013, 08:33 PM
To be honest, I dislike the heavily negative view of Drew but I cannot pretend like he's been great either. I agree with discounting the first 13 games that got him the equivalent of a good ST in terms of PA, but he's been a bit streaky (1/15 in his last several games).

Drew's OBP is above AL SS average, his SLG a good deal higher, and he's above average in fielding.

Great? No. Above average? Yes.

He was starting to hit again when he got hurt a few weeks back. He can be counted on to go ~.230/.315/.410 the rest of the season, ahead of what can be expected from Iggy or WMB.

$8.0M FG WAR $ in 72 games, not bad. In fact downright excellent vs his contract.

EDIT ADD: Ahem... two HR's last night... right now on the entire season he's:

SDrew average: .231/.313/.418 OPS+ 96
AL SS average: .251/.303/.367 OPS+ 85

RedSoxtober
07-29-2013, 10:31 AM
Drew's OBP is above AL SS average, his SLG a good deal higher, and he's above average in fielding.

Great? No. Above average? Yes.


I get it and while I agree, there's something about the frequency with which Drew's advantages and Iglesias' decline are pointed out that I find, I don't know, a little like a desperate used car salesman.

Do you think it'd make sense to deal Iglesias? Has the state of his hitting fallen off sufficiently that maybe someone WOULD overpay, thinking he should at least be a .260/.300/.320 guy when he may be no more than .230/.275/.300?

bagwell368
07-29-2013, 11:11 AM
I get it and while I agree, there's something about the frequency with which Drew's advantages and Iglesias' decline are pointed out that I find, I don't know, a little like a desperate used car salesman.

Don't forget about Napoli too. I'm waiting for our buddy to come in, and object....


Do you think it'd make sense to deal Iglesias? Has the state of his hitting fallen off sufficiently that maybe someone WOULD overpay, thinking he should at least be a .260/.300/.320 guy when he may be no more than .230/.275/.300?

Good question. I think too many teams would figure that either we are sold on XB as the SS, or that we were very worried about Iggy's bat long term. Either way the offer is liable to be weak. If I'm wrong and someone is sold, and pays through the nose - by all means, ship him out and ask if they'd like WMB as well.

RedSoxtober
07-29-2013, 03:07 PM
Xander Bogaerts is making his fifth start of the season at third base on Monday night for Triple-A Pawtucket.

The Red Sox are clearly considering promoting the top shortstop prospect to play third base for them down the stretch. Bogaerts, 20, is batting .296/.395/.492 with 14 home runs, 59 RBI and seven stolen bases in 96 games this year between Double-A and Triple-A. He'd have immediate mixed-league fantasy value if he gets the call.roto

RS07 is gonna need a cold shower!

Nomar
07-29-2013, 03:13 PM
:laugh2:

Nomar
07-29-2013, 05:42 PM
Xander Bogaerts will start at third base for Triple A Pawtucket tonight. It will be his fifth game at third base for Pawtucket. Bogaerts has otherwise played only shortstop this season in the minors.

Bogaerts is hitting a solid .273/.377/.476 in 40 games for Pawtucket. He has eight home runs and 24 RBIs. Bogaerts has struck out 29 times and walked 23 times, an impressive ratio for a 20-year-old in Triple A.

"Xander's doing everything that he can to tell us when he's ready to come to the big leagues," Farrell said. "Whether that's this week or next month, that's still in the debate or in the conversation. But it's an exciting young player. We're all looking forward to the day he begins his career, not knowing when that's going to be.

"There's still some things that are a work in progress for him defensively. Any time you go up against more veteran and accomplished pitching, that's going to be another adjustments on his part. He's a pretty exciting player."

---

I'm one phone sorry for the formatting. But the way Farrell is talking makes it seem like hell be up after the deadline. Refusing to give any clue yet not admitting he isn't ready at the same time. Maybe I'm just reading into it too much to hear what I want to hear though.

-Lavigne43-
07-29-2013, 06:27 PM
I think you're reading too much into it. Someone asked him a question about him and he answered it without giving a commitment to anything.

Nomar
07-29-2013, 06:49 PM
Said the little angel on my shoulder

RedSoxtober
07-29-2013, 09:22 PM
I think you're reading too much into it. Someone asked him a question about him and he answered it without giving a commitment to anything.

While I'm always on the end of caution, I think you're not reading quite enough into it. "whether that's this week or next month..." certainly sounds like the plans are forming for 2014. Sep 1 may still be more likely. Even that is a bit of a surprise to me.

Part of the reason for the delay? He's not quite comfy at 3B. The rest of the article that Nomar posted...



How comfortable are the Sox with how Bogaerts looks at third base?

"Getting there" Farrell said. "I know one thing. Just in the reports and talking with [Pawtucket manager] Gary DiSarcina, he feel more comfortable at short. You'd almost expect that. ... The more reps that we can get there to gain some comfort probably keeps that internal conversation alive. Whether or not that's the position he comes to here, we'll see."Boston.com

bagwell368
07-29-2013, 09:58 PM
XB will join the Sox for the 8/27 home game vs the O's, first game back after a shortish West Coast trip and before the deadline for getting him on the playoff roster - at least that's my call based on common sense.

Crucis
07-29-2013, 11:14 PM
XB will join the Sox for the 8/27 home game vs the O's, first game back after a shortish West Coast trip and before the deadline for getting him on the playoff roster - at least that's my call based on common sense.

Bags, I agree. The Sox aren't going to wait until after Sept 1st to call up XB. If they're calling him up because they're hoping that he could give the team a big spark, they'd want him to be available for the playoff roster without hoping for a DL replacement exception.

-Lavigne43-
07-29-2013, 11:28 PM
I'm pretty sure there's an exception to that deadline for in organization minor league players.

-Lavigne43-
07-29-2013, 11:31 PM
While I'm always on the end of caution, I think you're not reading quite enough into it. "whether that's this week or next month..." certainly sounds like the plans are forming for 2014. Sep 1 may still be more likely. Even that is a bit of a surprise to me.

Part of the reason for the delay? He's not quite comfy at 3B. The rest of the article that Nomar posted...

Boston.com

I think he will be up this year, but I don't see what Farrell said that makes him think Xander will be up right after the deadline

Nomar
07-29-2013, 11:36 PM
I think he will be up this year, but I don't see what Farrell said that makes him think Xander will be up right after the deadline

To be fair I've been drinking all day. Vacation week!

AI
07-29-2013, 11:47 PM
To be fair I've been drinking all day. Vacation week!

Lies!

Nomar
07-29-2013, 11:58 PM
Lies!

Ocean City, MD for the week. But constantly checking phone because of the deadline. One day I'll make the voyage to PR and we can touch tips... i mean what.

Redsox07Champs
07-30-2013, 02:31 AM
roto

RS07 is gonna need a cold shower!

wait...what???? bahahaha

RedSoxtober
07-30-2013, 08:35 AM
I'm pretty sure there's an exception to that deadline for in organization minor league players.
The only thing I know about is that they can take the place of a guy on the 60-day DL. I don't think the rule specifies when the player went on the 60-day DL so he could take the place of someone like Bailey.

Doesn't really matter, though. He's only got to make the 40-man roster to be eligible and they're still at 39 after shedding Aceves.

-Lavigne43-
07-30-2013, 11:25 AM
I've heard it talked about before, I just can't remember any of the details. It's why guys like K-Rod were able to come up deep into September and impact the playoffs.

Station 13
07-30-2013, 12:27 PM
I'm pretty sure there's an exception to that deadline for in organization minor league players.

That would be correct, anyone who is in the Red Sox organization before Sept 1 is eligible to be on the playoff roster.

bagwell368
07-30-2013, 01:41 PM
I think he's coming up for the first Balt home game after the six game road trip which is around the 27th of August.

AI
07-30-2013, 01:43 PM
The Red Sox have no plans to call up Xander Bogaerts in the near future to solve their right handed power need

Cafardo

AI
07-30-2013, 01:56 PM
Good read on Xander.

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/rob-bradford/2013/07/30/michael-young-xander-bogaerts-look-who-might-

Station 13
07-30-2013, 01:58 PM
Cafardo

That probably changes quick after the non waiver deadline.

RedSoxtober
07-30-2013, 03:56 PM
I've heard it talked about before, I just can't remember any of the details. It's why guys like K-Rod were able to come up deep into September and impact the playoffs.
K-Rod came in via the 60-day DL exception.


That would be correct, anyone who is in the Red Sox organization before Sept 1 is eligible to be on the playoff roster.
Not true. Only players on the 40 man as of 9/1 (with the exception of taking the place of a 60-day DL guy).

MiamiBoy77
07-30-2013, 04:24 PM
They were talking on MLBTV about how the sox should trade Xander for Lee. HAHAHA

Nomar
07-31-2013, 12:15 AM
WMB called up to replace Iggy so people gettin overly excited... hold your horses.

-Lavigne43-
07-31-2013, 12:23 AM
WMB is getting a chance to take the starting job. If he sucks Xander is coming up.

AI
07-31-2013, 12:37 AM
Has it been confirmed that WMB is the one getting called up?

-Lavigne43-
07-31-2013, 12:40 AM
Has it been confirmed that WMB is the one getting called up?

Red Sox are not going to announce until after the deadline. They could get Young, but it will probably be WMB

AI
07-31-2013, 12:54 AM
Red Sox are not going to announce until after the deadline. They could get Young, but it will probably be WMB

Am I the only one who thinks it will be Xander? I'm 50% hoping, 50% actually believe it will be him.

Crucis
07-31-2013, 12:55 AM
Red Sox are not going to announce until after the deadline. They could get Young, but it will probably be WMB

Don't they need to call somebody up, perhaps Holt, to be the utility guy?

Crucis
07-31-2013, 12:58 AM
Am I the only one who thinks it will be Xander? I'm 50% hoping, 50% actually believe it will be him.

Probably not until after the trading deadline. There are 40 man roster concerns here. XB isn't on the 40 man roster. And I don't see the Sox wanting to expend a 40mr slot on him until AFTER the deadline, just in case they pull of some trade(s) that have 40MR implications. Better to call up Holt who's already on the 40MR for tomorrow if necessary.

AI
07-31-2013, 01:12 AM
Probably not until after the trading deadline. There are 40 man roster concerns here. XB isn't on the 40 man roster. And I don't see the Sox wanting to expend a 40mr slot on him until AFTER the deadline, just in case they pull of some trade(s) that have 40MR implications. Better to call up Holt who's already on the 40MR for tomorrow if necessary.

Iglesias off the 40 man roster, Peavy takes his spot.

We had an open spot on the 40 man roster plus Bailey could be moved to the 60 day DL creating yet another spot. There are no roster concerns at the moment that would prevent a Xander callup.

-Lavigne43-
07-31-2013, 01:14 AM
Don't they need to call somebody up, perhaps Holt, to be the utility guy?

Barring a trade I think they will call them both up. No reason to keep Snyder up if you are calling WMB up. They wouldn't announce a callup until right before the game, so 40 man isn't a concern

Crucis
07-31-2013, 01:45 AM
Iglesias off the 40 man roster, Peavy takes his spot.

We had an open spot on the 40 man roster plus Bailey could be moved to the 60 day DL creating yet another spot. There are no roster concerns at the moment that would prevent a Xander callup.

You're ignoring the possibility of a trade tomorrow, which was my point. Wait until after tomorrow (today, now) before putting XB on the 40 MR. The Sox just can't be in that big a rush that they couldn't wait a day.

Pittz
07-31-2013, 01:58 AM
Makes sense to give WMB another shot while XB gets more reps at 3B. When WMB fails, which is likely, XB comes up with more experience at the position and we know a bit more about what WMB is or isn't capable of.

Redsox07Champs
07-31-2013, 02:06 AM
heart says xb, gut says middlebrooks coming back

Redsox07Champs
07-31-2013, 02:21 AM
actually, middlebrooks has been struggling recently. i could actually see them maybe giving xb a chance. wouldnt be surprised if holt is called up either. i feel like middlebrooks just hasnt earned his way back.

AI
07-31-2013, 03:30 AM
According to a team source, the Red Sox will be promoting infielder Brock Holt to take the place of newly-traded Jose Iglesias on the team’s 25-man roster Wednesday.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/07/31/sources-red-sox-replacing-jose-iglesias-with-brock-holt-for-time-being/

Holt is getting called up, not Middlebrooks. Leads me to believe that Xander is the one who will eventually get the call. Also, if it's not Xander and it's WMB, we are one Drew injury away from finally seeing Xander in Boston.

RedSoxtober
07-31-2013, 08:58 AM
Probably not until after the trading deadline. There are 40 man roster concerns here. XB isn't on the 40 man roster. And I don't see the Sox wanting to expend a 40mr slot on him until AFTER the deadline, just in case they pull of some trade(s) that have 40MR implications. Better to call up Holt who's already on the 40MR for tomorrow if necessary.
Deadline is 3hrs before game time so they don't really have to worry about it.


Has it been confirmed that WMB is the one getting called up?
WMB was told just before leaving McCoy that he was getting promoted.


http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/07/31/sources-red-sox-replacing-jose-iglesias-with-brock-holt-for-time-being/

Holt is getting called up, not Middlebrooks. Leads me to believe that Xander is the one who will eventually get the call. Also, if it's not Xander and it's WMB, we are one Drew injury away from finally seeing Xander in Boston.
Obviously this contradicts what I mentioned above. Be mildly interesting to see which one gets the spot. However, since they view Holt and Snyder as both UTL/bench guys and the opening is a full time opening my money is on WMB.

XB will take more time. He himself says he's not as comfortable at 3B yet. Give him a month of reps (another reason WMB gets promoted) at 3B and he'll be better poised for the spot in MLB.

Nomar
07-31-2013, 10:08 AM
Holy being called up makes me think Young is Boston bound after today. I hope that isn't the case.

-Lavigne43-
07-31-2013, 10:36 AM
Holt was coming up no matter what since we needed someone on the bench capable of playing SS. Snyder will probably be replaced with either a trade acquisition or WMB before the game or tomorrow.

Nomar
07-31-2013, 10:40 AM
Holt was coming up no matter what since we needed someone on the bench capable of playing SS. Snyder will probably be replaced with either a trade acquisition or WMB before the game or tomorrow.

Oops. Wasn't thinking about the backup SS hole.

AI
07-31-2013, 04:39 PM
Xander Bogaerts is "in the discussion" Farrell said, as a third base solution. That said, call-up isn't imminent #RedSox
...

chomaru
07-31-2013, 06:48 PM
2 for 4 again today, absolutely on fire.

RedSoxtober
08-01-2013, 09:13 AM
Right now I'm pretty sure it's about him developing a comfort level at 3B than anything else.

Nomar
08-02-2013, 12:12 AM
Anyone else see XB getting called up Monday? If he starts his career in Houston, there won't much many distractions before the game and can get his feet under him before he heads to Boston. Not to mention that it's Houston; as far a competition goes, it's who you'd want your first ABs against. Their starting pitching staff is a joke. Sounds like a pretty ideal situation for a call up.

Lackeyfan41
08-02-2013, 04:40 AM
Anyone else see XB getting called up Monday? If he starts his career in Houston, there won't much many distractions before the game and can get his feet under him before he heads to Boston. Not to mention that it's Houston; as far a competition goes, it's who you'd want your first ABs against. Their starting pitching staff is a joke. Sounds like a pretty ideal situation for a call up.
I think it is to soon, but I suppose it could happen.

RedSoxtober
08-02-2013, 09:02 AM
Anyone else see XB getting called up Monday? If he starts his career in Houston, there won't much many distractions before the game and can get his feet under him before he heads to Boston. Not to mention that it's Houston; as far a competition goes, it's who you'd want your first ABs against. Their starting pitching staff is a joke. Sounds like a pretty ideal situation for a call up.

No, I think you're trying to press to hard for it. He needs time at 3B before he comes up. The idea of bringing him up while they're on the road is fine but this would be too quick. I'm going more with the last weekend in August. He gets to play against A-Gon on the anniversary of the trade -- ironically an ESPN Sunday night baseball broadcast.

mooz
08-02-2013, 09:17 AM
No, I think you're trying to press to hard for it. He needs time at 3B before he comes up. The idea of bringing him up while they're on the road is fine but this would be too quick. I'm going more with the last weekend in August. He gets to play against A-Gon on the anniversary of the trade -- ironically an ESPN Sunday night baseball broadcast.

I'm with you. I think there's a few factors in play, for one I think Middlebrooks is making it a much easier decision as to who to bring up if needed seeing as how even though he's walking more, he's still not hitting much and he recently was thrown out of a game for flipping out on a borderline call, he may be unraveling a bit and I think leaving him down in the minors until next season may be a good decision. The other factor being how well Holt and Snyder can hold down the 3B job on the big club while Xander "marinates" as Disarcina put it.

Ideally, the Sox would like Xander to get a ton of reps at 3B until the end of the month and he gets called up around when RST said. If Holt/Snyder start being a black hole offensively, this timetable could be accelerated though.

Nomar
08-02-2013, 09:19 AM
No, I think you're trying to press to hard for it. He needs time at 3B before he comes up. The idea of bringing him up while they're on the road is fine but this would be too quick. I'm going more with the last weekend in August. He gets to play against A-Gon on the anniversary of the trade -- ironically an ESPN Sunday night baseball broadcast.

I just posted it because that's what Lou merloni thinks will happen.

RedSoxtober
08-02-2013, 02:48 PM
I just posted it because that's what Lou merloni thinks will happen.

Then Lou's looking for too many. Or more likely, trying to fit in a lucky guess on the hot topic of the day to keep listeners rather than thinking through the dynamics of what's going on.

Nomar
08-05-2013, 06:13 PM
If Bogaerts is called up after the 15th he'll likely qualify as a rookie still next year.

RedSoxtober
08-06-2013, 08:28 AM
If Bogaerts is called up after the 15th he'll likely qualify as a rookie still next year.

Meh, they could do that now if they wanted: 130AB/50IP or 45 days on the active roster BUT post 9/1 doesn't count.

Nomar
08-06-2013, 09:15 AM
Meh, they could do that now if they wanted: 130AB/50IP or 45 days on the active roster BUT post 9/1 doesn't count.

Didn't know after 9/1 didn't count for some reason.

MiamiBoy77
08-06-2013, 10:46 AM
Didn't know after 9/1 didn't count for some reason.

I think because they're not playoff eligible.

-Lavigne43-
08-06-2013, 11:19 AM
Snyder is hitting .225/.244/.450. Holt .261/.302/.304. There is no way they planned on these two being the 3b the rest of the way when they made that trade. Something is going to be done soon.

bagwell368
08-06-2013, 11:50 AM
Snyder is hitting .225/.244/.450. Holt .261/.302/.304. There is no way they planned on these two being the 3b the rest of the way when they made that trade. Something is going to be done soon.

The good news is that these two replacement players are doing enough to keep a precipitous decision from being made. I.E. the brass has up to 3.5 weeks to make one of 3 choices:

1. bring WMB back to play 3B
2. promote XB to play 3B (before 9/1)
3. make a waiver deal for a 3B if the confidence level in 1 and/or 2 is lacking. If we have a bad start on the road trip we won't get anyone exciting if at all.

bagwell368
08-06-2013, 04:12 PM
One reason for optimism on XB is something a scout (Nats - very low level) told my son about 3 days ago. He said at the start of the season XB was swinging (hard) and missing on all sorts of breaking balls. About two weeks ago he saw him again and said XB was zoned in on everything - I.E. that his recognition and reaction to breaking balls was better than any minor league hitter he had seen all year long.

A hitter as young as that making these sorts of strides has special written all over him.

Nomar
08-06-2013, 04:21 PM
I wonder if they prefer XB to get really hot before promoting him. Keep his confidence up going into his MLB debut. It would help to have him be hot at the time of a promotion which hasnt really been the case normally. AAA debut wasnt bad though.

Crucis
08-06-2013, 04:46 PM
One reason for optimism on XB is something a scout (Nats - very low level) told my son about 3 days ago. He said at the start of the season XB was swinging (hard) and missing on all sorts of breaking balls. About two weeks ago he saw him again and said XB was zoned in on everything - I.E. that his recognition and reaction to breaking balls was better than any minor league hitter he had seen all year long.

A hitter as young as that making these sorts of strides has special written all over him.

I'd love to see XB given a shot to give some additional offensive pop at 3B for the remainder of the season. I generally agree with your previous post where you point out that Snyder and Holt (as well as Iggy) generally held down the fort at 3B sufficiently well after WMB failed to produce early in the season.

And part of me wishes that WMB had really turned things around enough to earn a chance at taking his 3B job back. I realize that he's probably frustrated that he hasn't been called back up, but he has to earn it. It's not going to be given to him. And if XB is outperforming him at the plate, how can the Sox justify calling WMB up over XB? I don't see that they can. The Sox aren't some last place team that might be able to afford to call up a WMB and let him fight thru his issues. They need a productive player at 3B, not one who is trying to work thru his offensive issues.

Crucis
08-06-2013, 04:47 PM
I wonder if they prefer XB to get really hot before promoting him. Keep his confidence up going into his MLB debut. It would help to have him be hot at the time of a promotion which hasnt really been the case normally. AAA debut wasnt bad though.

It couldn't hurt, I suppose. OTOH, you don't want to wait too long and waste a perfectly good hot streak down at AAA when you could possibly get that production for the big club.

Nomar
08-06-2013, 04:53 PM
It couldn't hurt, I suppose. OTOH, you don't want to wait too long and waste a perfectly good hot streak down at AAA when you could possibly get that production for the big club.

agreed

AI
08-06-2013, 05:18 PM
Doubt it has anything to do with him getting "hot", he's been hot for a while now at AAA. I think it has to do more with him getting accostumed to 3B, getting reps and feeling more comfortable at the position.

RedSoxtober
08-06-2013, 07:15 PM
I think because they're not playoff eligible.
I believe they've chosen not to count the time against the service time for prospects as a way to encourage kids getting a shot in MLB without teams being afraid of losing them "early" because of it. I'd guess that it came from the MLBPA side of the equation.


Doubt it has anything to do with him getting "hot", he's been hot for a while now at AAA. I think it has to do more with him getting accostumed to 3B, getting reps and feeling more comfortable at the position.

This. I can't get past Farrell's comments about that from a few days ago. I thought he did a good job tempering expectations in the immediate wake of the Iglesias/Peavy trade.

Nomar
08-06-2013, 07:22 PM
I believe they've chosen not to count the time against the service time for prospects as a way to encourage kids getting a shot in MLB without teams being afraid of losing them "early" because of it. I'd guess that it came from the MLBPA side of the equation.

Still it's not like bringing him up today would have any effect on the amount of control we have on him if he starts the year in Boston next season.

RedSoxtober
08-06-2013, 07:36 PM
Still it's not like bringing him up today would have any effect on the amount of control we have on him if he starts the year in Boston next season.

I was only addressing why service time after 9/1 is not counted against prospects. Not intending to say anything about XB at all. I don't think service time considerations have anything at all to do with why he's in PAW.

Unfortunately, the "comfort at 3B" doesn't seem to have anything to do with it either. Middlebrooks has had the hot corner for the last four games. Precisely why I hoped Will would have been promoted -- he's got nowhere else to work while at PAW and it's "natural" to put XB at SS and WMB at 3B. Damnit.

Crucis
08-06-2013, 07:51 PM
I was only addressing why service time after 9/1 is not counted against prospects. Not intending to say anything about XB at all. I don't think service time considerations have anything at all to do with why he's in PAW.

Unfortunately, the "comfort at 3B" doesn't seem to have anything to do with it either. Middlebrooks has had the hot corner for the last four games. Precisely why I hoped Will would have been promoted -- he's got nowhere else to work while at PAW and it's "natural" to put XB at SS and WMB at 3B. Damnit.

Why not have WMB learn to play some 1B while he's down at AAA? It would make him more flexible in the short run if he got called up, if he provided some insurance at 1B for the Sox. And long term, it's possible he could end up at 1B anyways. Why not start getting a little exposure to playing 1B?

Nomar
08-06-2013, 08:16 PM
Bogaerts booted a ball at 3B tonight. 8 errors in AAA not sure how many at each position.

The Allen
08-07-2013, 12:23 AM
Bogaerts booted a ball at 3B tonight. 8 errors in AAA not sure how many at each position.

According to http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=bogaer001xan that was his first error at 3B and has 7 at SS.

RedSoxtober
08-07-2013, 08:44 AM
Why not have WMB learn to play some 1B while he's down at AAA? It would make him more flexible in the short run if he got called up, if he provided some insurance at 1B for the Sox. And long term, it's possible he could end up at 1B anyways. Why not start getting a little exposure to playing 1B?

He probably won't ever hit enough for a 1B but increasing his versatility wouldn't be bad. It's not like Drew Sutton is going to turn into anything special either (he's gotten most starts at 1B). Between DH/1B slots for WMB they should be able to get XB many more starts at 3B.

RedSoxtober
08-07-2013, 12:51 PM
The Boston Globe has published two recent blogs -- Chad Finn and Adam Kauffman -- which both essentially call for XB to be called up sooner rather than later. Kauffman's piece (http://www.boston.com/blogs/sports/columnists/kaufman/2013/08/red_sox_arent_quite_right_against_lefties.html) is actually a decently written article. The main theme that both Kauffman and Finn strike on is the weak performance against TOP lefties (see the article for details and the Achilles' heel thread I just bumped) and XB's good numbers against LHP.

He also points out, though, that WMB is hitting LHP pretty well despite his pedestrian AAA numbers: .315BA with a .927OPS. Whether WMB gets a shot at redemption or XB gets a chance to break out, either seems to be a good option over what we're trotting out every day.

Crucis
08-07-2013, 02:52 PM
He probably won't ever hit enough for a 1B but increasing his versatility wouldn't be bad. It's not like Drew Sutton is going to turn into anything special either (he's gotten most starts at 1B). Between DH/1B slots for WMB they should be able to get XB many more starts at 3B.

Yeah, Soxtober, I agree that it seems rather unlikely that WMB would hit well enoogh for 1B, at least for a contending team. But having the ability to slide over to 1B, if there's an injury or the team needs to give the 1B-man a day off, is a worthwhile thing in my book. Of course, I'm the person who thinks that pretty much all minor leaguer position players should gain some experience at multiple positions to increase their general defensive flexibility. ;)

grandsalami
08-07-2013, 03:03 PM
“@bradfo: Bogaerts Watch 2013: Per @alexspeier Xander will not be called up today”

Bo Sox Fan
08-07-2013, 03:59 PM
I don't see why Middlebrooks can't play first base. He's an average 3rd baseman defensively which should make him an above average 1st baseman with the glove. Ex, Kevin Youkilis in his prime (defensively)

It would also save alot of ware and tare on Will since he's a bigger bodied man. Now let's hope he gets his stick going again. I trust that he's in a sophomore slump since it has happenend to him at different levels in the minor leagues before. The talent is there, now just bring it back.

Pittz
08-07-2013, 04:17 PM
The talent's not really there, though. Just the power.

RedSoxtober
08-07-2013, 06:49 PM
Yeah, Soxtober, I agree that it seems rather unlikely that WMB would hit well enoogh for 1B, at least for a contending team. But having the ability to slide over to 1B, if there's an injury or the team needs to give the 1B-man a day off, is a worthwhile thing in my book. Of course, I'm the person who thinks that pretty much all minor leaguer position players should gain some experience at multiple positions to increase their general defensive flexibility. ;)

I remembered and knew exactly where you were coming from. I'm pretty much on board with it. If he picks up his hitting, great. If not, he's become a UTL at the corners with above average power (for a UTL). It's pretty much a win.

BTW, I noted in the prospect thread that Hassan is getting regular turns over at 1B right now (in addition to both corner OF spots). Neither Napoli nor Carp should presume their job is secure.

bagwell368
08-07-2013, 08:15 PM
I don't see why Middlebrooks can't play first base. He's an average 3rd baseman defensively which should make him an above average 1st baseman with the glove. Ex, Kevin Youkilis in his prime (defensively)

It doesn't always work that way. For instance WMB is nowhere near as good at 3B as Youk was in his prime.

The other problem is a lot more is expected out of 1B offensively than from 3B. Given the amount of angst fans have over Napoli at 1B, what would they do with a guy that easily inferior to Napoli with the stick?


It would also save alot of ware and tare on Will since he's a bigger bodied man. Now let's hope he gets his stick going again. I trust that he's in a sophomore slump since it has happenend to him at different levels in the minor leagues before. The talent is there, now just bring it back.

He's an ox strength wise. But he's ineffective at best against breaking balls and he's incapable of discipline with pitches 3"-7" off the strike zone. He'll see another fastball down the pike when hell freezes over until he proves he can master those problems - which looks like a less than 50/50 shot to me at this point.

After all, since Iggy was dealt it would be great to see if he can handle things again, yet, where is he? Trying to get his crap together in AAA is where.

-Lavigne43-
08-07-2013, 08:17 PM
I've always thought teams should try to get as much positional flexibility out of players in the minors before they they solidify themselves as a major league player and feel entitled to playing only one specific position. Spring training is a good time for this. Zobrist is tremendously valuable because of his ability to play so many positions.

Right now they want WMB to focus on his offense, not learning a new position. Nava and Carp can back up 1b, there's 0% chance they would want to start him at 1b this year.

bagwell368
08-07-2013, 08:21 PM
I remembered and knew exactly where you were coming from. I'm pretty much on board with it. If he picks up his hitting, great. If not, he's become a UTL at the corners with above average power (for a UTL). It's pretty much a win.

BTW, I noted in the prospect thread that Hassan is getting regular turns over at 1B right now (in addition to both corner OF spots). Neither Napoli nor Carp should presume their job is secure.

You mean for this year? No way Hassan plays in front of Napoli regularly. Playing Carp 2/7 or 3/7 for the rest of August might help energize Napoli for the playoffs, because if we go there and Napoli is uninjured expect him to get the bulk of the PA's at 1B - easily.

WMB certainly won't take away PA's from Napoli.

A waiver deal - maybe, but, Napoli isn't a problem IMO, using him as a #5 hitter when he is much more of a #6 or #7 hitter. WMB failed to take the bull by the horns and take over the 5th spot. This line-up has quite a few AAAA and not very potent RH bats in it - Sox could have seen to that in the off season, but they didn't.

nocal_lbm
08-07-2013, 11:33 PM
ware and tare look out!!!! a bare!!!!

Crucis
08-08-2013, 12:14 AM
look out!!!! a bare!!!!

A bare sitting in a chare at the fare eating a pare? ;)

RedSoxtober
08-08-2013, 08:53 AM
You mean for this year? No way Hassan plays in front of Napoli regularly. Playing Carp 2/7 or 3/7 for the rest of August might help energize Napoli for the playoffs, because if we go there and Napoli is uninjured expect him to get the bulk of the PA's at 1B - easily.

No, next year. While Napoli has had some big moments/months I think his high k-rate, lower-than-expected bb-rate, miserable RISP performance, and worse than anticipated Fenway performance will free the Sox to look elsewhere. They were very intrigued by Hassan in ST'12 and the local kid makes good storyline could be a selling point for the marketing guys.

SoxFan101NlB
08-08-2013, 10:23 AM
WMB certainly won't take away PA's from Napoli.

A waiver deal - maybe, but, Napoli isn't a problem IMO, using him as a #5 hitter when he is much more of a #6 or #7 hitter. WMB failed to take the bull by the horns and take over the 5th spot. This line-up has quite a few AAAA and not very potent RH bats in it - Sox could have seen to that in the off season, but they didn't.[/QUOTE]

Well, I remember you being way against Hamilton. Like me as well, but what bat would you have gotten this off season? I am happy with Gomes, Victorino, and Napoli...to an extent.

AI
08-08-2013, 11:47 AM
Michael Young cleared waivers. Still think he'd be a nice fit here if they don't plan on rushing Xander.

bagwell368
08-08-2013, 11:48 AM
Well, I remember you being way against Hamilton. Like me as well, but what bat would you have gotten this off season? I am happy with Gomes, Victorino, and Napoli...to an extent.

As a whole they did real good and you forgot Drew who is killing it.

Napoli might have been the best choice, he's crushing Laroche (2.1 rWAR > 0.3), and the Nats owe Laroche $12M next year and $15M or $2M buyout the year after - we owe Napoli nothing. I was against him too.

bagwell368
08-08-2013, 11:50 AM
Michael Young cleared waivers. Still think he'd be a nice fit here if they don't plan on rushing Xander.

I was for it, but they have to do it right away, and if either XB or WMB rip it in Sep, somebody is going to be unhappy.

-Lavigne43-
08-09-2013, 01:10 AM
Xander went 5/7 today in a doubleheader, played both games at SS. If they are not intending to call him up anytime soon then they 100% should get Young. Can't keep playing AAA players at 3b and not expect it to hurt us. Holt is getting most of the starts and he has a .536 OPS now, come on. With a tiny lead in the division we need to play our best possible team, you don't want to be a wild card team.

Lackeyfan41
08-09-2013, 03:49 AM
Will Xander be ready in 7-10 days.

The more time we can buy for Xander/WMB at AAA the better it should be for them when they come up.

But, I would like to see Michael Young here if we can get him for pretty cheap....

Nomar
08-09-2013, 08:23 AM
The longer we wait, the more pointless it is to get Young.

bagwell368
08-09-2013, 08:45 AM
The longer we wait, the more pointless it is to get Young.

I was for it two weeks ago, but his fielding really is abysmal and his hitting is near league average. I believe his dWAR is worse in a negative way than his oWAR is in a positive way.

Drew now has a death grip on the SS job. So you need a 3B and a back-up. Holt is the back-up. Snyder is gone IMO as soon as XB or WMB comes up. As of Sep 1st both should be up and Drew will be getting days off - backed up by XB and/or Holt.

If it was me, I'd bring up XB in the next 3-5 games in place of Snyder, playing mostly 3B. As of 9/1 bring in WMB, rest Drew a fair amount, and let WMB and XB battle it out. If both a really good, Holt is off the playoff list, if only one, then Holt stays and along with the other guy (probably XB IMO).

RedSoxtober
08-09-2013, 09:13 AM
Today is Day 9 of Will Middlebrooks and Xander Bogaerts Held Hostage as the Sox platoon Brock Holt and Brandon Snyder at third base.

So when will the Sox make a move?

"When one of the players mentioned steps up and says by his performance and his actions this is one that's going to make us the best team," Farrell said. "That's what is the bottom-line goal here, what is our best team.

"There might be some fluctuation with that. I'm not saying a move is imminent. That's the view that's taken with the four names that have been talked about at third base."

Bogaerts is hitting .275/.368/.462 at Pawtucket and played seven games at third base. Middlebrooks is hitting .259/.314/.459 at Pawtucket. Obviously he has more experience at third.Boston.com

AI
08-09-2013, 01:09 PM
Those #'s in the article are incorrect. Xander's actually hitting .291/.380/.476 at AAA.

Nomar
08-09-2013, 01:53 PM
Yeah I'm sure Brock holt is better than either. He's a liability at 3B and offensively. ****in joke.

SirHizz
08-09-2013, 02:13 PM
Yeah I'm sure Brock holt is better than either. He's a liability at 3B and offensively. ****in joke.

Don't think anyone on the Sox thinks that Holt and Snyder are better options than Xander and Mil'brooks, but I kinda agree with their approach. Xander would be the savior as soon as he gets up. Machado got called up early, but was in the comfortable situation in Baltimore with little pressure compared to Boston.
WMB is down to work on some things and the trainers/coaches obviously belief he's still not quite there yet. Let alone the fact that good AAA numbers boost his trade value if the right deal comes along in the off-season.

RedSoxtober
08-09-2013, 02:22 PM
Those #'s in the article are incorrect. Xander's actually hitting .291/.380/.476 at AAA.

The numbers were posted prior to PAW's double header last night.

Nomar
08-09-2013, 02:27 PM
Don't think anyone on the Sox thinks that Holt and Snyder are better options than Xander and Mil'brooks, but I kinda agree with their approach. Xander would be the savior as soon as he gets up. Machado got called up early, but was in the comfortable situation in Baltimore with little pressure compared to Boston.
WMB is down to work on some things and the trainers/coaches obviously belief he's still not quite there yet. Let alone the fact that good AAA numbers boost his trade value if the right deal comes along in the off-season.

Baltimore was in the pennant race, that's pretty solid pressure.

Crucis
08-09-2013, 03:05 PM
Today is Day 9 of Will Middlebrooks and Xander Bogaerts Held Hostage as the Sox platoon Brock Holt and Brandon Snyder at third base.

So when will the Sox make a move?

===

Boston.com


Cute line! When will the suffering of Sox fans end??? Rescue Xander from AAA oblivion!!! ;)

Crucis
08-09-2013, 03:07 PM
Baltimore was in the pennant race, that's pretty solid pressure.

But it might be much less than the pressure in Boston.

Nomar
08-09-2013, 03:22 PM
But it might be much less than the pressure in Boston.

I'm just saying skipping a level and being thrown into a pennant race shouldn't be looked at too lightly just because it's baltimore.

-Lavigne43-
08-09-2013, 03:35 PM
Who cares about pressure, it will always be there. Wait a month and the pressure is still there, worse if the team is struggling. Wait until next season and the pressure is still there. I'd argue the pressure is at its lowest right now since the team is winning. Call him up now and he hits at the bottom of the lineup on a road trip. It's not like Lavarnway hitting in the middle of the lineup right away because the team is desperate for anything.

He's a much better player than Holt and Snyder, we need every win we can get.

AI
08-09-2013, 03:42 PM
Who cares about pressure, it will always be there. Wait a month and the pressure is still there, worse if the team is struggling. Wait until next season and the pressure is still there. I'd argue the pressure is at its lowest right now since the team is winning. Call him up now and he hits at the bottom of the lineup on a road trip. It's not like Lavarnway hitting in the middle of the lineup right away because the team is desperate for anything.

He's a much better player than Holt and Snyder, we need every win we can get.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Xander's track record has shown that he struggles briefly with promotions, makes adjustments then proceeds to own every pitcher in his path. The sooner he is up, the sooner he can get accostumed to how pitchers will attack him at the major league level. I think he's ready, matter of fact I think he's been ready for a while now. I'm surprised that Snyder hasn't been DFA'd considering that Xander is the much better player already. If he's claimed, so what, we're losing a .646 OPS player, plus Holt is nothing but a UTIL player.

Nomar
08-09-2013, 03:49 PM
Agreed. I really don't see much of a point not calling him up anymore. Our 3B are horrible. I'd rather have XB up hitting and adjusting now rather than later. Also its not like Holt or Snyder are any good defensively.

Gormans Mic
08-09-2013, 04:24 PM
Iggy's hitting is going over like an Edsel since 6/22. Drew by AL league standards is having an above average season with the bat. He's also the only vet we have between 3B/SS.

U

one of my favorite things is laughing at the people on EEI when I listen to it on my drive home now and then who call up angry that we gave up such a great hitting young SS and how Drew sucks because his last name is Drew. Pink hat sox fans FTW.

Crucis
08-09-2013, 04:47 PM
Who cares about pressure, it will always be there. Wait a month and the pressure is still there, worse if the team is struggling. Wait until next season and the pressure is still there. I'd argue the pressure is at its lowest right now since the team is winning. Call him up now and he hits at the bottom of the lineup on a road trip. It's not like Lavarnway hitting in the middle of the lineup right away because the team is desperate for anything.

He's a much better player than Holt and Snyder, we need every win we can get.

I'm not sure that I'd say "who cares about pressure", but I do agree with the rest. The pressure is about as low as it will go for the rest of the season, whether the Sox are winning or not. The closer to the end of the season and potential playoffs things get, the greater the pressure to succeed will become.

Might as well call him up now and let him become acclimated to things before things get any more difficult.

AI
08-09-2013, 04:48 PM
Brock Holt and Brandon Snyder are 5 for 33 (.151) with four runs, three RBIs, and two extra-base hits since the trade. They are hitless in their last 14 at-bats.

Yup, what are we waiting for? A move needs to be made, be it Xander or Middlebrooks.

RedSoxtober
08-09-2013, 05:24 PM
The Red Sox have played nine games since trading Jose Iglesias. They're 6-3 and have averaged 5.6 runs. So it would be a little hyperbolic to suggest that the lack of production at third base is some sort of crucial issue. It's not. It's not as though Iglesias was hitting much before the deal.

Nonetheless, Brock Holt and Brandon Snyder are 5 for 33 (.151) with four runs, three RBIs, and two extra-base hits since the trade. They are hitless in their last 14 at-bats.

Don't blame Holt and Snyder. Holt is a middle infielder best suited for a utility role, and Snyder is a bench player now with his third organization in three years. They are what they are.

There's an equation the Red Sox have to figure out here sometime soon. Can Xander Bogaerts play third base in the majors after seven games of experience at the position at Triple A? Or should the Red Sox bring Will Middlebrooks back?

Bogaerts is the best prospect in baseball, and the Sox do not want to throw him into the heat of the pennant race unless he is ready. They also believe Middlebrooks is an important part of the future and are committed to the idea of him smoothing out some rough edges in the minors.

But the valid priorities of player development usually take a back seat to the needs of the major league team, and right now, there's a need.

Whether it's Bogaerts or Middlebrooks, the Red Sox need a third baseman. At this point, either represents a significant upgrade that would come at no cost. The reward far outweighs any risk.Pete Abraham @ Boston.com

bagwell368
08-09-2013, 05:26 PM
heh heh....

In XB's last 41 games in AAA, he's: .320/.406/.510

His start was OK, but obscures what he has become.

corky831
08-09-2013, 07:06 PM
What impresses me the most about xander is his plate discipline. Its unbelievable for a 20 yr old in AAA

Crucis
08-09-2013, 08:09 PM
heh heh....

In XB's last 41 games in AAA, he's: .320/.406/.510

His start was OK, but obscures what he has become.

Jeez, that only makes me want him called up ASAP even more! Gawd! Why is he wasting away down at AAA when the Sox could use him on the big club???? :confused:

bagwell368
08-09-2013, 08:35 PM
Jeez, that only makes me want him called up ASAP even more! Gawd! Why is he wasting away down at AAA when the Sox could use him on the big club???? :confused:

More experience. I think he might be called up on the 19th - first game of a road trip, or 27th - first game home stand and before Sep 1st.

Crucis
08-09-2013, 09:56 PM
More experience. I think he might be called up on the 19th - first game of a road trip, or 27th - first game home stand and before Sep 1st.

Yeah, I know, Bags. But at what point is need to get "more experience" going to be outweighed by the need to get him on the major league roster and contributing to the big club? (The 19th or the 27th, I suppose...)

bagwell368
08-09-2013, 10:02 PM
Yeah, I know, Bags. But at what point is need to get "more experience" going to be outweighed by the need to get him on the major league roster and contributing to the big club? (The 19th or the 27th, I suppose...)

The problem is when they think about the kids that got screwed up with exposure too soon. Then there is the whole WMB issue - I.E. bring up one over the other... in particular if WMB is held at AAA and XB comes up, WMB is hitting very well lately.

SoxFan101NlB
08-10-2013, 12:13 AM
Do you the Sox are going to go with wmb again before xander? I'm afraid they will so wmb doesn't lose whatever confidence he has right now.

bagwell368
08-10-2013, 05:57 AM
Do you the Sox are going to go with wmb again before xander? I'm afraid they will so wmb doesn't lose whatever confidence he has right now.

Most likely they bring up WMB shortly in place of Snyder. Then bring up XB on the last day of August in place of a BP arm, whom they return to the roster on 9/1 as part of the expansion of rosters. Then XB will be a back-up and get about 25-40 PA's to prove he's better than WMB. If WMB is good, then XB will have to be great to beat him out, although if XB is good or better he might just get Holt's spot for the playoffs - that includes defense, which I am not at all sure he will shine this season.

If WMB is just beating up AAA pitching but still doesn't command the strike zone and breaking stuff according to the Sox evaluation, and is bound to fail again, then we won't see him first. We'll see XB for Snyder. I haven't seen any of WMB's play since he went down, all I'm doing is going by the box score. But his temper tantrum didn't help him any.

SoxFan101NlB
08-10-2013, 11:05 AM
If WMB is just beating up AAA pitching but still doesn't command the strike zone and breaking stuff according to the Sox evaluation, and is bound to fail again, then we won't see him first. We'll see XB for Snyder. I haven't seen any of WMB's play since he went down, all I'm doing is going by the box score. But his temper tantrum didn't help him any.

I really hope that if they bring him up in the next week or two, that they will have regular at bats. He needs to continue developing. I don't think he has much left to learn facing minor league pitching. He needs defensive exposure at 3rd base. But, he needs to continue his development, by facing pitchers who will adjust to him during an at bat, not just in different at bats.

Bos_Sports4Life
08-10-2013, 01:49 PM
personally (and my opinion may suck) but I'd bring up XB within the week and tell him he has the job at 3B for the remainder of the year..Even if struggles occur in the beginning stages. He's already going too be nervous/adjusting too mlb pitching...I don't also want him thinking every atbat may mean the diff between him or WMB.

As for WMB, idk if he'll ever cut it in boston. I was HOPING for a .330 OBP/.500 SLG type player with average defense, But that seems too be hoping for too much. By aug next season I could see cecchini at 3rd and XB playing SS.

Redsox07Champs
08-10-2013, 02:32 PM
looks like snyder is going on the dl and wmb is getting called up :(

Redsox07Champs
08-10-2013, 02:33 PM
WEEI.com's Rob Bradford reports the Red Sox are expected to recall Will Middlebrooks on Saturday.
Middlebrooks hasn't appeared in the majors since June 25 and is batting .268/.327/.464 with 10 home runs over 45 games at the Triple-A level. With Brandon Snyder likely headed to the disabled list, he should be used in a platoon with Brock Holt at third base.
Source: Rob Bradford on Twitter Aug. 1

bagwell368
08-10-2013, 03:44 PM
Last 8 games WMB is: .333/.361/.545

A strict platoon won't give WMB much chance to show what he can do by the end of the month. I don't like the idea. WMB should get more than just LHP to hit off of.

AI
08-10-2013, 03:53 PM
At this point, WMB should be our everyday 3B. Holt and Snyder are crap.

Bos_Sports4Life
08-10-2013, 04:03 PM
If XB doesn't get the call up before sept and isn't given every opportunity too keep the job i'll be question the willingness too win..

hes much more consistent than WMB, gives a much more "professional" at-bat, and while his glove is still new at 3B..Its not like WMB is some gold glover.

And while experience does count...it shouldn't be the deciding factor. It wasn't in '07 with ellsbury and it shouldn't be now.

Lackeyfan41
08-10-2013, 04:08 PM
Why can't WMB walk? He brings a ton of counts to 3-2 or something of the likes and then ends of closing his eyes and swinging at everything.

I don't get it ???

RedSoxtober
08-10-2013, 04:52 PM
If XB doesn't get the call up before sept and isn't given every opportunity too keep the job i'll be question the willingness too win..

hes much more consistent than WMB, gives a much more "professional" at-bat, and while his glove is still new at 3B..Its not like WMB is some gold glover.

And while experience does count...it shouldn't be the deciding factor. It wasn't in '07 with ellsbury and it shouldn't be now.

So he has 4-6 "professional at bats" with the chance to make or prevent 4-6 outs... but has to DEFEND for 27 outs. We can't act like his promotion is only going to give him AB unless he's going to displace Ortiz.

Bogaerts isn't yet comfortable at 3B defensively. His defense at SS has improved during the year but it took some concentrated effort. A switch to 3B is likely to have a similar impact. The good news is that the kid has a VERY coachable disposition and honestly cares about getting better. I think he'll make a nice transition for the short term.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 05:29 PM
Last 8 games WMB is: .333/.361/.545

A strict platoon won't give WMB much chance to show what he can do by the end of the month. I don't like the idea. WMB should get more than just LHP to hit off of.


I agree, Bags. The Sox *need* to find out quickly if WMB is going to be able to contribute or not for the rest of the season. And I think you're right that that won't happen if he's platooned and only faces LHP. They need to see what he's got so they can make a a decision regarding 3B and XB by 9/1.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 05:33 PM
If XB doesn't get the call up before sept and isn't given every opportunity too keep the job i'll be question the willingness too win..

hes much more consistent than WMB, gives a much more "professional" at-bat, and while his glove is still new at 3B..Its not like WMB is some gold glover.

And while experience does count...it shouldn't be the deciding factor. It wasn't in '07 with ellsbury and it shouldn't be now.

I've got to disagree. The Sox need to see what WMB can do and quickly. If he's back to his productive form from last season, WMB can add a serious RH power bat to the lineup, which is something the team sorely needs.

And while WMB isn't the greatest defender, he is a natural 3B-man and XB isn't.

Now if the Sox give WMB the 3B job for the next 2+ weeks and he stinks, then maybe the door is wide open for XB. But I think that the Sox do need to see what WMB has to offer because we know that he can bring a lot of sorely needed power, if he can get back to where he was.

Nomar
08-10-2013, 05:54 PM
It definitely won't be a strict platoon anyway. It's not like hotl is hitting righties and not lefties, he's flat out not hitting period.

Bos_Sports4Life
08-10-2013, 06:31 PM
So he has 4-6 "professional at bats" with the chance to make or prevent 4-6 outs... but has to DEFEND for 27 outs. We can't act like his promotion is only going to give him AB unless he's going to displace Ortiz.

Bogaerts isn't yet comfortable at 3B defensively. His defense at SS has improved during the year but it took some concentrated effort. A switch to 3B is likely to have a similar impact. The good news is that the kid has a VERY coachable disposition and honestly cares about getting better. I think he'll make a nice transition for the short term.

Id rather have a consistant .350 OBP player with a bit of pop/below average glove over a .315 OBP 3rd basemen with an average glove.

WMB is a streaky guy...Him being hot right now doesn't change my opinion much on him. in my eyes he's a .320 OBP/.450 SLG type hitter..imo even with XB's raw defense at 3rd he'd be of the better value.

Bos_Sports4Life
08-10-2013, 06:49 PM
I've got to disagree. The Sox need to see what WMB can do and quickly. If he's back to his productive form from last season, WMB can add a serious RH power bat to the lineup, which is something the team sorely needs.

And while WMB isn't the greatest defender, he is a natural 3B-man and XB isn't.

Now if the Sox give WMB the 3B job for the next 2+ weeks and he stinks, then maybe the door is wide open for XB. But I think that the Sox do need to see what WMB has to offer because we know that he can bring a lot of sorely needed power, if he can get back to where he was.


WMB SUCKED the atbats he was given this yr for the sox, has shown too be a streak hitter, XB has out hit him basically all season and the fact WMB is "up" too a .268/.327/.464 line in AAA is supposed too convince me he has more value than XB?

bagwell368
08-10-2013, 08:46 PM
You XB must be up ahead of MWB types should think of a few things:

1. Experience - and lack of it causing problems, potentially now and in the future
2. His numbers recently are about as good as XB
3. Playing a position you are familiar with
4. Hit on WMB's confidence, and maybe his trade value

Also WMB has a two run single tonight...

tonyd3b54
08-10-2013, 08:51 PM
Its amazing how opinions change so drastically. WMB is less than a year removed from being our #1 prospect and people want to give up on him already. If anything people should be crossing their fingers that WMB succeeds the rest of the way. It give Xander more time to develop and a future of XB at ss and WMB at 3b is a very exciting one if both reach their potential.

AI
08-10-2013, 08:53 PM
I agree with WMB getting first shot at the 3B hole. Sends a nice message to the kid that we are loyal to him and it's not a slap in the face if Xander or another player takes it away from him if he doesn't produce. Like I said earlier, this is a win-win situation. Will hits, he sticks. He doesn't? Xander gets his shot. Anything is better than that pathetic Holt and Snyder platoon we were using lately.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 09:33 PM
Its amazing how opinions change so drastically. WMB is less than a year removed from being our #1 prospect and people want to give up on him already. If anything people should be crossing their fingers that WMB succeeds the rest of the way. It give Xander more time to develop and a future of XB at ss and WMB at 3b is a very exciting one if both reach their potential.

I think that the problem that WMB faces is that I tend to think that it's hard to overcome being a free-swinging low OBP type of guy. With that sort of guy, if you're hitting well, your OBP will be reasonable. But if you're not, the OBP will stink too.

So unless WMB can really change in this regard, he sort of reminds me of a Francouer or a Shea hillenbrand type who has plenty of power but no patience. So I'm not really sure that WMB is the future 3B-man for the Sox, unless he becomes consistently excellent. I'm thinking that Cechini might really be the 3B-man of the Sox future.

Still, I'm not rooting against WMB.

bagwell368
08-10-2013, 09:53 PM
I think that the problem that WMB faces is that I tend to think that it's hard to overcome being a free-swinging low OBP type of guy. With that sort of guy, if you're hitting well, your OBP will be reasonable. But if you're not, the OBP will stink too.

So unless WMB can really change in this regard, he sort of reminds me of a Francouer or a Shea hillenbrand type who has plenty of power but no patience. So I'm not really sure that WMB is the future 3B-man for the Sox, unless he becomes consistently excellent. I'm thinking that Cechini might really be the 3B-man of the Sox future.

Still, I'm not rooting against WMB.

For sure to all of it. If changing from a low to a high OBP hitter was easy, everyone would do it.

tonyd3b54
08-10-2013, 10:37 PM
I think that the problem that WMB faces is that I tend to think that it's hard to overcome being a free-swinging low OBP type of guy. With that sort of guy, if you're hitting well, your OBP will be reasonable. But if you're not, the OBP will stink too.

So unless WMB can really change in this regard, he sort of reminds me of a Francouer or a Shea hillenbrand type who has plenty of power but no patience. So I'm not really sure that WMB is the future 3B-man for the Sox, unless he becomes consistently excellent. I'm thinking that Cechini might really be the 3B-man of the Sox future.

Still, I'm not rooting against WMB.

True. I think part of the problem is people had expectations that were way too high, when he was never really projected to be anything more than a slightly above average 3b if he reached his potential.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 11:23 PM
True. I think part of the problem is people had expectations that were way too high, when he was never really projected to be anything more than a slightly above average 3b if he reached his potential.

Tony, I think that all those HR's that WMB hit last year seduced fans into thinking that he was something spectacular. It's understandable, particularly from less knowledgeable fans. But hopefully more knowledgeable fans will realize that there's more to being a good 3B-man than HR totals.

But in the short term, given the overall weakness of Snyder and Holt, I'd be relatively happy if WMB could hit somewhere above .250 and have a fair number of HR's and be a generally productive hitter in this lineup.

Of course, if he can't do at least that, there's always plan B, XB that is.

Crucis
08-10-2013, 11:31 PM
I agree with WMB getting first shot at the 3B hole. Sends a nice message to the kid that we are loyal to him and it's not a slap in the face if Xander or another player takes it away from him if he doesn't produce. Like I said earlier, this is a win-win situation. Will hits, he sticks. He doesn't? Xander gets his shot. Anything is better than that pathetic Holt and Snyder platoon we were using lately.



I'm content to give WMB the first shot, given that he's been rather hot of late. And he is already on the 40 man roster. ;)

As for the "loyalty" message, maybe I wouldn't put it quite that way. For me, it's not outright loyalty in the broadest sense. It's not a "we'll live or die with WMB" message. It's more of a "we haven't forgotten you. You've gotten hot and we need help at 3B, so we'll give you first dibs at 3B. But if you want to hold the job, you'll have to earn it" message...


Long term, Bogaerts is very likely to be the better player. I don't doubt that. But in there here and now, the Sox need help at 3B, both are hot, but only WMB is on the 40 man roster right now. And he's a natural 3B while XB is not. And he shouldn't have any 1st MLB appearance jitters. Giving him the first shot makes plenty of sense here, as long as it's understood that there's a relatively short leash.

Bos_Sports4Life
08-11-2013, 12:06 PM
sill don't understand the love for WMB, He's an extreme free swinger who will never learn how too take a BB. What's realistic expectations going forward... A ..270/.310/.440 type hitter? That's better than Snyder/holt but even than, that slash line isn't really good enough too be an every day 3rd basemen.

Nomar
08-11-2013, 12:22 PM
sill don't understand the love for WMB, He's an extreme free swinger who will never learn how too take a BB. What's realistic expectations going forward... A ..270/.310/.440 type hitter? That's better than Snyder/holt but even than, that slash line isn't really good enough too be an every day 3rd basemen.

He could slug .500 if all goes well.

Bos_Sports4Life
08-11-2013, 01:15 PM
He could slug .500 if all goes well.

I think that's pretty much his ceiling. Even than I don't think he has much of a role here going forward.

He's never going too have the bat for a 1st basemen and I believe Cecchini will have the much better production starting late next yr or into '15.

I guess the WMB call up makes sense in a way...If hes hot you ride his streak and HOPEFULLY find a buyer in the offseason, If hes cold bring up XB. I just feel like XB would give us more quality at bats in Oct (Knock on wood). While WMB is on a hot streak, No telling when he'll go on one of his cold streaks.

I even like Alex Hassan over WMB in the future in a backup role..More positional flexibility, and he can hit lefties well..I legit think he has a shot too be a solid major leaguer.

bagwell368
08-11-2013, 04:23 PM
He could slug .500 if all goes well.

The problem is, unless he gets discipline, who is going to give him pitches to drive? I might throw him a borderline strike, then just keep moving away the same direction, and on strike two try a different zone of the plate - also off the plate and let his anxiety do the rest.

mooz
08-12-2013, 11:45 AM
Great article by Speier on WEEI about Bogaerts and the prospect "Hype Machine".

WEEI (http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2013/08/12/xander-bogaerts-and-prospect-hype-machine)

RedSoxtober
08-12-2013, 11:47 AM
Its amazing how opinions change so drastically. WMB is less than a year removed from being our #1 prospect and people want to give up on him already. If anything people should be crossing their fingers that WMB succeeds the rest of the way. It give Xander more time to develop and a future of XB at ss and WMB at 3b is a very exciting one if both reach their potential.


True. I think part of the problem is people had expectations that were way too high, when he was never really projected to be anything more than a slightly above average 3b if he reached his potential.

You pretty much answered the first quote with the second. I think expectations were too high. My point earlier (or maybe another thread) about the two different players that we saw in WMB was basically that the league adjusted pretty quickly to WMB and exploited his weaknesses. Casual fans still loved his final line and projected him as an all star (to be fair there were some scouts who put his ceiling in that realm). His lack of adjustments and overly aggressive style probably prove correct those scouts who had more middling expectations.

BCpatsox18
08-13-2013, 12:29 AM
I may be the only one, but I haven't given up on WMB yet. He is 24, and definitely isn't a finished product yet. The middlebrooks we saw last year and this year is not the one we will see down the line. He never will be a JD Drew type hitter, but to say he'll NEVER be even slightly disciplined is a dramatic overstatement. I still think his absolute ceiling is that of a .275 hitter with 30-35 HR- and I believe he'll put those numbers up at first base not third. To give up on a player who is 24, and was your top prospect not two years ago, not three, but LAST year is very premature. For god sakes some people still believe in kalish

TragicallyHip
08-13-2013, 09:04 AM
For god sakes some people still believe in kalish

No one believes in Kalish, except for his parents.

bagwell368
08-13-2013, 09:30 AM
I may be the only one, but I haven't given up on WMB yet. He is 24, and definitely isn't a finished product yet. The middlebrooks we saw last year and this year is not the one we will see down the line. He never will be a JD Drew type hitter, but to say he'll NEVER be even slightly disciplined is a dramatic overstatement. I still think his absolute ceiling is that of a .275 hitter with 30-35 HR- and I believe he'll put those numbers up at first base not third. To give up on a player who is 24, and was your top prospect not two years ago, not three, but LAST year is very premature.

Two years ago the Sox farm was in bad shape in terms of top end guys.

Among fans there is formula that they try to generalize from in terms of what they did in AAA (or even AA & AAA) to the Majors. So for instance if a guy was a .320/.420/.570 hitter in the minors he might be a .275/.365/.480 hitter in the Majors. Problem is that breaking balls and the pitchers that throw them are perhaps the biggest jump of any function that there is from AAA to the Majors. As long, as a hitter can't deal with progressions that include mostly off the plate or breaking ball progressions, he's going to see a lot of breaking balls and off the plate pitches. Do you know how hard it is to amass good hitting stats living on that diet? The hitter has to get the pitcher to throw him what he wants, and outside of WMB's first blush of success last year when he was tested with FB's it's not been seen again. Can he make the adjustments it? Maybe. Most hitters don't that's why most ML hitters have short careers.

But, we have our two best (and well more promising than WMB two years ago) hitting specs that play 3B and may play 3B/SS/LF. So not only does WMB have to elbow those two guys out of the way (or have one fail) to get/keep a job vs the farm system - he has to produce well enough to fend off any ideas BC might have in spending dough on a FA.

Basically WMB has until Cecchini arrives to make his case. Would I like a 3B that hits .275/.315/.490 w/ 25 HR's, and fields OK? Sure. But until WMB turns the corner he looks like a .230/.265/.415 hitter w/ a very streaky nature. We don't need or want a guy like that.

-Lavigne43-
08-13-2013, 12:19 PM
WMB the #1 prospect entering last year would have trouble making it into my personal top ten of the current farm. Our farm system sucked at the top levels when he was the top prospect, so many players have emerged since then.

People think he has way more power than he does, his peak is ~25HR power. He's a Napoli type hitter without the walks. He has to hit for a ton of power just to be a productive hitter. Power and nothing else guys are the lottery tickets that should be traded when their value is high. Maybe he learns to take a walk, maybe he stops striking out an abysmal amount, but it's unlikely. You can't succeed when your strikeout rates AND walk rates are abysmal, it's why I wanted them to trade him last year while he was having his ridiculous stretch.

j-bay
08-17-2013, 11:38 AM
Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 8m
#RedSox director of player development Ben Crockett says a Bogaerts callup is "close, but there's still development to be done".

Nomar
08-17-2013, 12:45 PM
I'm sure the offense needs no spark.

AI
08-18-2013, 08:00 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/08/13/minor-league-player-of-the-year-finalists-xander-bogaerts-archie-bradley-byron-buxton-miguel-sano-george-springer/2646791/

Everybody vote for Xander.

bagwell368
08-18-2013, 08:10 PM
Lots of chatter on the airwaves, on my small network, and in the wind. XB will be up before the end of the coming road trip, and as early as Thursday the travel day between SFG and LAD. Book it.

Nomar
08-18-2013, 08:24 PM
Yeah I'd be shocked if he doesn't play in the LAD series.

There's the Napoli foot talk of course, and I heard Buster talk about Drew perhaps "hitting a wall" which just sounds like a generic excuse to get Bogaerts some playing time but no complaints here.

Can't expect him to come up an set the world on fire, but a guy like him can change the psyche of the team; build some momentum going into the late stretch of the season. I think that actually matters a lot. Seems like every WS victor has some guy come up, overrated/underrated whatever, but they're talked about and seem to energize the team for whatever reason. Not saying that there aren't multiple teams each year in the playoffs with a guy like that, but at least we should be one of the teams with that on our side this year.

bagwell368
08-18-2013, 08:30 PM
Yeah, the Sox are teetering on a number of fronts. They haven't scored well since the start of the KCR series. I think they will beat the Yanks good tonight. But, a change of pace with a talented kid followed 10 days later by Buchholtz could really change things..

Crucis
08-18-2013, 09:54 PM
Lots of chatter on the airwaves, on my small network, and in the wind. XB will be up before the end of the coming road trip, and as early as Thursday the travel day between SFG and LAD. Book it.

Bags, not to doubt your "chatter", but why would they wait to call him up mid-West Coast trip (barring an injury, of course), when they could call him up before the trip and bring him on the team plane? Or just wait until they return from the road trip? Seems strange to me, but maybe there's some x-factor that I'm unaware of... :confused:

Nomar
08-18-2013, 10:20 PM
Bags, not to doubt your "chatter", but why would they wait to call him up mid-West Coast trip (barring an injury, of course), when they could call him up before the trip and bring him on the team plane? Or just wait until they return from the road trip? Seems strange to me, but maybe there's some x-factor that I'm unaware of... :confused:

It's probably more likely that he gets called up before the given series starts but I bet it's not the biggest deal either way. Say he's called up game 3 to SF and he doesn't play, he could then fly with the team to LA for that series. Obviously there's a number if routes that can be taken. Do you not see him getting called up against either teams though, or is it just a matter of what point in the next week?

Crucis
08-18-2013, 10:57 PM
It's probably more likely that he gets called up before the given series starts but I bet it's not the biggest deal either way. Say he's called up game 3 to SF and he doesn't play, he could then fly with the team to LA for that series. Obviously there's a number if routes that can be taken. Do you not see him getting called up against either teams though, or is it just a matter of what point in the next week?

It's a matter of logistics for me, Nomar. If you're going to call him up before next week, why wouldn't you just bring him to the west coast on the team plane? Otherwise, just wait until after the trip and call him up to start the next home stand.

bagwell368
08-18-2013, 11:01 PM
Bags, not to doubt your "chatter", but why would they wait to call him up mid-West Coast trip (barring an injury, of course), when they could call him up before the trip and bring him on the team plane? Or just wait until they return from the road trip? Seems strange to me, but maybe there's some x-factor that I'm unaware of...

Players often join teams on the road not using the main team plane. Debuting him on the road lowers the pressure on the player some feel. Also, Napoli's feet and Drew looking shopworn has all come up in the last few days, which seems to have somehow moved the time table up which they were not expecting.

Sox are not flying out tonight, but tomorrow AM, that gives them a shot to bring him. XB has a trip to Scranton for a 4 game set starting Weds night (not that this would stop his movement, just that this is where he'll be if not w/ the Sox).

Nomar
08-18-2013, 11:32 PM
It's a matter of logistics for me, Nomar. If you're going to call him up before next week, why wouldn't you just bring him to the west coast on the team plane? Otherwise, just wait until after the trip and call him up to start the next home stand.

I don't think being with the team matters as much as you seem to. I also think they'd rather have him debut on the road than at home.

Crucis
08-18-2013, 11:53 PM
Players often join teams on the road not using the main team plane. Debuting him on the road lowers the pressure on the player some feel. Also, Napoli's feet and Drew looking shopworn has all come up in the last few days, which seems to have somehow moved the time table up which they were not expecting.

Sox are not flying out tonight, but tomorrow AM, that gives them a shot to bring him. XB has a trip to Scranton for a 4 game set starting Weds night (not that this would stop his movement, just that this is where he'll be if not w/ the Sox).

I understand the point about wanting to debut him on the road to lower the pressure. That's not really linked to my point about logistics.

But if napoli's feet and/or Drew looking shopworn are an issue now, why wait until Wed. or Thurs.? Just call him up and be done with it.

(I'd heard about the Sox flying out tomorrow morning already...)

Of course, if the Sox call up XB, what are the corresponding moves, both for the 25 and 40 man rosters?

Nomar
08-18-2013, 11:56 PM
I agree. Lot's of people wondering what exactly we're waiting for if that's the case. Maybe they aren't sure about Napoli's foot yet, who knows.

As for the roster moves, I'm not going to try to predict but I think it's pretty clear that it won't be too hard to find a reasonable person to DFA and a person to send down.

Crucis
08-19-2013, 12:04 AM
I agree. Lot's of people wondering what exactly we're waiting for if that's the case. Maybe they aren't sure about Napoli's foot yet, who knows.

Perhaps, but I'm not thinking about it from a XB fanboy PoV. I'm looking at it from the PoV of not fiddly-farting around. If a guy's got a sore foot and isn't going to play. DL him already! IF Drew's looking really tired now, why wait until Wednesday? Call up someone (in this case XB) NOW! Enough fiddleyfarting around already!!!




As for the roster moves, I'm not going to try to predict but I think it's pretty clear that it won't be too hard to find a reasonable person to DFA and a person to send down.

Could Holt be optioned to AAA? Or would he need to be DFA'd?

I wouldn't mind seeing Napoli put on the DL. If his foot is sore, and the Sox already know that Ortiz is going to play 4/6 of the games on the upcoming road trip, just be done with it and DL Naps. Carp and Nava and Ortiz are enough to cover 1B for the next week or so. Give Naps some reset for his foot, rather than pu$$yfooting around about the entire thing! After all, it's not like his bat is lighting the world afire.

Nomar
08-19-2013, 12:13 AM
Perhaps, but I'm not thinking about it from a XB fanboy PoV. I'm looking at it from the PoV of not fiddly-farting around. If a guy's got a sore foot and isn't going to play. DL him already! IF Drew's looking really tired now, why wait until Wednesday? Call up someone (in this case XB) NOW! Enough fiddleyfarting around already!!!




Could Holt be optioned to AAA? Or would he need to be DFA'd?

I wouldn't mind seeing Napoli put on the DL. If his foot is sore, and the Sox already know that Ortiz is going to play 4/6 of the games on the upcoming road trip, just be done with it and DL Naps. Carp and Nava and Ortiz are enough to cover 1B for the next week or so. Give Naps some reset for his foot, rather than pu$$yfooting around about the entire thing! After all, it's not like his bat is lighting the world afire.

I think he can be optioned still (Holt). And fanboy or not as you said, XB is the guy to call up. Drew being tired is bogus though. The tired Drew is playing way better baseball than our $100 million boy Pedey at the moment.

Crucis
08-19-2013, 12:24 AM
I think he can be optioned still (Holt). And fanboy or not as you said, XB is the guy to call up. Drew being tired is bogus though. The tired Drew is playing way better baseball than our $100 million boy Pedey at the moment.

Nomar, you (seemingly) miss my point with the fanboy comment. Of course, XB is the guy to call up if the Sox need someone for the left side of the IF. That's not in doubt. My fanboy comment was that I'm not urging the Sox to call up XB in this case for the sake of calling up XB out of fanboy love. It's because IF the Sox need a fresh and capable warm body to do a job, well call up that fresh capable warm body ... which in this instance does happen to be XB.

Oh, and if Holt can be optioned, then it'd seem obvious that he should be the person sent down to make room on the 25 man roster.

Nomar
08-19-2013, 01:00 AM
Nomar, you (seemingly) miss my point with the fanboy comment. Of course, XB is the guy to call up if the Sox need someone for the left side of the IF. That's not in doubt. My fanboy comment was that I'm not urging the Sox to call up XB in this case for the sake of calling up XB out of fanboy love. It's because IF the Sox need a fresh and capable warm body to do a job, well call up that fresh capable warm body ... which in this instance does happen to be XB.

Oh, and if Holt can be optioned, then it'd seem obvious that he should be the person sent down to make room on the 25 man roster.

No i got it perfectly. I'm just saying in this case if you're a fanboy or Bogaerts' worst enemy he is clearly the right person to call up considering the team's needs (along with a lefty reliever but that's another thing).

Holt has 3 options left also.

grandsalami
08-19-2013, 01:36 AM
If napoli goes on the DL Im guessing he comes up...

chomaru
08-19-2013, 02:26 AM
Wouldn't Hassan be more likely to get the nod over XB at this point?

AI
08-19-2013, 02:52 AM
Wouldn't Hassan be more likely to get the nod over XB at this point?

No.

bagwell368
08-19-2013, 06:09 AM
But if napoli's feet and/or Drew looking shopworn are an issue now, why wait until Wed. or Thurs.? Just call him up and be done with it.


I'd like him on the plane too, but there is no telling what other considerations there might be. It seems we will find out.

bagwell368
08-19-2013, 06:10 AM
The tired Drew is playing way better baseball than our $100 million boy Pedey at the moment.

Pedey has played a lot more than Drew, and with an injury. He could use two days off in a row for sure.

bagwell368
08-19-2013, 06:14 AM
Wouldn't Hassan be more likely to get the nod over XB at this point?

He's on the DL with a fractured finger, so no.

RedSoxtober
08-19-2013, 10:10 AM
It's a matter of logistics for me, Nomar. If you're going to call him up before next week, why wouldn't you just bring him to the west coast on the team plane? Otherwise, just wait until after the trip and call him up to start the next home stand.

Totally with you. PawSox were at home. While callups join the MLB club on the road often enough, in this case it makes (made) LOTS more sense to put him on the same plane and not pay to fly him out separately.

Nighthawk
08-19-2013, 10:32 AM
According to WEEI's Alex Speier, the Red Sox will call up top prospect Xander Bogaerts on Monday.
Bogaerts will presumably see regular playing time between shortstop and third base down the stretch for Boston. He was batting .299/.389/.481 with 15 homers, seven steals and 67 RBI in 115 games this season between Double-A Portland and Triple-A Pawtucket. The 20-year-old is a must-own in all standard mixed fantasy leagues.

todu82
08-19-2013, 11:02 AM
Looking forward to seeing what this guy does, hoping he lives up to the hype.

bagwell368
08-19-2013, 11:26 AM
The 20-year-old is a must-own in all standard mixed fantasy leagues.

Hunh? Who wrote that, it wasn't you...

Keeper leagues? He's probably already gone.

10 guys playing with all of MLB at their fingertips and XB starting out as a part timer or split SS/3B? Can't see that.

Redsox07Champs
08-19-2013, 11:56 AM
i hope this is the lineup tonight...

1. ellsbury cf
2. victorino rf
3. pedroia 2b
4. ortiz 1b
5. middlebrooks 3b
6. nava lf
7. salty c
8. bogaerts ss
9. lester p

but my guess is that even though middlebrooks is hot, he'll be weaned into the 5 hole, most likely see nava 5th and middlebrooks 6th

Nomar
08-19-2013, 11:59 AM
No way do I move WMB up that high. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Bogaerts sit if there's a righty tonight. Let him get used to the dugout in the MLB.

RedSoxtober
08-19-2013, 01:15 PM
Hunh? Who wrote that, it wasn't you...

Keeper leagues? He's probably already gone.

10 guys playing with all of MLB at their fingertips and XB starting out as a part timer or split SS/3B? Can't see that.

That's classic rotoworld commentary.