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View Full Version : has any team won with a supporting cast as bad as the 2013 heat in the playoffs?



el hidalgo
07-25-2013, 02:05 PM
Has any team won with a supporting cast that played THAT terribly during the playoffs? There was the main player, lebron, and then the support cast. They were AWFUL. Wade had a TS of 46% and scored 16 points per game. Bosh went for 12 points 7 rebounds on a measly 45.7% shooting. And it's not like these guys are defensive players who have a big impact on defense. I've never seen a worse supporting cast take the trophy. opinions?

SteBO
07-25-2013, 02:19 PM
Spare me, LeBron had plenty of help last year.....Wade, Bosh, Battier, Miller, Allen; all had a huge hand in Miami's defending their title last year. Sure they didn't play up to par all the time, but without them LeBron still has no hardware.

JoeBlessU
07-25-2013, 02:22 PM
No.. Never. Lebron is God!!!!.. Lets continue talking about his greatness every second of every day. He won his 2nd title in a row single handedly and probably could have swept every opponent by himself. His teammates dragged him down..Hes so good, he overcame it and is unquestionably not only the best basketball player thats ever lived, hes the best that will ever live..ever!!!

Is that the answer youre looking for? lol

ManRam
07-25-2013, 02:23 PM
#Stop.

I do think the talk of LeBron having a legendary supporting cast are a bit out of place, but saying that no star has ever had a lesser supporting cast is infinitely more ridiculous.

el hidalgo
07-25-2013, 02:23 PM
Spare me, LeBron had plenty of help last year.....Wade, Bosh, Battier, Miller, Allen; all had a huge hand in Miami's defending their title last year. Sure they didn't up to par all the time, but without them LeBron still has no rings.

you can say that about any team that won the finals. and im talking about this year, not last year. they were GARBAGE. sure, birdman did well on his tip ins. wade and bosh played horribly compared to their usual selfs. LeBron basically did it all.

ManRam
07-25-2013, 02:28 PM
you can say that about any team that won the finals. and im talking about this year, not last year. they were GARBAGE. sure, birdman did well on his tip ins. wade and bosh played horribly compared to their usual selfs. LeBron basically did it all.

Wade and Bosh were not "Wade" and "Bosh", but they still were fine.

I mean, just go back to 2011. Terry arguably was better than anyone on the Heat this past year in the playoffs (I'd say he was), but after that Dirk didn't have much at all. You can't even go back two years with your claim, let alone span "EVER".

Shlumpledink
07-25-2013, 02:28 PM
The good thing with a deep team is that you don't need everyone to play really well for the entire series. You have one guy having a good game, then another guy having a good game the next game. That is the luxury that a deep team provides, the ability for players to have bad games but have them be picked up by another couple players performing well

SteBO
07-25-2013, 02:29 PM
you can say that about any team that won the finals. and im talking about this year, not last year. they were GARBAGE. sure, birdman did well on his tip ins. wade and bosh played horribly compared to their usual selfs. LeBron basically did it all.
Well......it's a team game. This year, the other guys didn't play up to par, but there were also a handful of games in the playoffs where his teammates carried him, when he didn't play up to par. LeBron's the best player on the Heat, and in the game today, so he'd better be the guy doing whatever he can to win. No excuses.

kdspurman
07-25-2013, 02:29 PM
you can say that about any team that won the finals. and im talking about this year, not last year. they were GARBAGE. sure, birdman did well on his tip ins. wade and bosh played horribly compared to their usual selfs. LeBron basically did it all.

Wade played fairly well actually in some games in the finals actually, games in which Lebron struggled. Lebron played great in the last few games, but lets not forget the first few games he was being criticized for his poor play. Wade was the difference in a couple games (don't remember which still trying to erase certain parts of that finals from my brain) , Bosh was just horrible.

ChitownBears22
07-25-2013, 02:29 PM
Ah Trolling.....it has been almost a month, get over it.

ChicagoJ
07-25-2013, 02:34 PM
Players struggle in the nba finals. It's not uncommon when you have the top two teams playing.

But Miami has the big 3 and a perfect compliment of players to support them. They are one of the better lineups the game has seen in the finals IMO.

el hidalgo
07-25-2013, 02:37 PM
miami doesnt have the perfect players to support them. yeah, they have a lot of three point shooters. that is great for any team, especially when you have lebron dishing and the big 3 slashing. they don't even have a center though. that would make a the perfect compliment to the big 3.

they still blew in the playoffs.

valade16
07-25-2013, 02:52 PM
miami doesnt have the perfect players to support them. yeah, they have a lot of three point shooters. that is great for any team, especially when you have lebron dishing and the big 3 slashing. they don't even have a center though. that would make a the perfect compliment to the big 3.

they still blew in the playoffs.

Birdman had a 25 PER and a ridiculous .815 TS%. He had a WS/48 of .309...

Allen, Battier, Wade, Bosh all had 14+ PERs (Wade's was 18). No way on earth LeBron had the worst supporting cast...

ThunderousDemon
07-25-2013, 03:09 PM
Has any team won with a supporting cast that played THAT terribly during the playoffs? There was the main player, lebron, and then the support cast. They were AWFUL. Wade had a TS of 46% and scored 16 points per game. Bosh went for 12 points 7 rebounds on a measly 45.7% shooting. And it's not like these guys are defensive players who have a big impact on defense. I've never seen a worse supporting cast take the trophy. opinions?

You're loathsome.

Slug3
07-25-2013, 03:09 PM
you can say that about any team that won the finals. and im talking about this year, not last year. they were GARBAGE. sure, birdman did well on his tip ins. wade and bosh played horribly compared to their usual selfs. LeBron basically did it all.

The thing that is overlooked is Wade usually stepped up and had big games when it was needed for Miami. I still remember with Indy and SA he had good games when it was needed.

FOBolous
07-25-2013, 03:11 PM
several players on the Heat bench can be starters on other teams in the NBA. i don't know where the crazy idea that the Heat has no bench came from

Bostonjorge
07-25-2013, 03:18 PM
The heat did play against the worst supporting cast teams on there way to the finals. Bucks led by Jennings, bulls led by Robinson and pacers led by hillbert.

RiLoc
07-25-2013, 03:25 PM
Has any team won with a supporting cast that played THAT terribly during the playoffs? There was the main player, lebron, and then the support cast. They were AWFUL. Wade had a TS of 46% and scored 16 points per game. Bosh went for 12 points 7 rebounds on a measly 45.7% shooting. And it's not like these guys are defensive players who have a big impact on defense. I've never seen a worse supporting cast take the trophy. opinions?Overall, LeBron's support during the playoff run was a little weaker than a normal championship, primarily due to Wade being injured. Outside of Wade or even the big three, they were better this year than last year, more contributions from more players.

A team that strikes me as having had a worse supporting cast would be 2002-03 Spurs. Here are the next 6 in win shares for after Tim Duncan (basketball reference (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html)):
Tony Parker 14.7ppg 3.5ast, .40.3fg%, 46.8ts%, 11.9per, 1.1ws
Stephen Jackson 12.8ppg, 41.4fg%, 4.1rpg, 12.0per, 1.3ws
Bruce Bowen 6.9ppg, 37.2fg%, 8.9per, 1.6ws (stats don't measure value well)
Manu Ginobili 9.4ppg, 38.6fg%, 3.8rpg, 2.9apg, 15.0per, 2.1ws
Malik Rose 9.3ppg, 5.8rpg, 13.3per, 1.2ws
David Robinson 7.8ppg, 6.6rpg, 17.7per, 2.3ws

Next 6 in win shares for 2012-13 Heat after LeBron (basketball reference (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html)):
Dwyane Wade 15.9ppg, 49.8ts% 18.7per, 1.8ws
Chris Bosh 12.1ppg, 7.3rpg, 16.8per 2.2ws
Mario Chalmers 9.4ppg, 3.1apg, 11.2per, 1.0ws
Ray Allen 10.2ppg, 40.6 3p%, 14.4per, 1.5ws
Udonis Haslem 5.0ppg, 59.3fg%, 3.6rpg, 14.2per, 1.1ws
Chris Anderson 6.4ppg, 80.7fg%, 24.9per, 1.9ws

I'm certain there are way more examples, that one just sticks out to me.

bleedprple&gold
07-25-2013, 03:35 PM
Wow not too long ago people we're bashing Lebron for not being able to carry a team by himself so he had to go and team up with the best supporting cast ever. Now he has the worst supporting cast ever? Dramatic much? The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between. He didn't have the best supporting cast this past year, but they were far from the worst.

All-In
07-25-2013, 03:51 PM
Lol The better argument is the 2006 Heat that won the finals. Wades supporting cast: Jason Williams 30, Antoine Walker 29, Haslem 25, Shaq 33, James Posey 29, Zo 35, Gary Payton 37. Lebron’s supporting cast I’d say is much better lol

Hawkeye15
07-25-2013, 03:53 PM
While I think the "LeBron has a superteam" arguments are ridiculous, this might be even more ridiculous.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2013, 03:53 PM
Wow not too long ago people we're bashing Lebron for not being able to carry a team by himself so he had to go and team up with the best supporting cast ever. Now he has the worst supporting cast ever? Dramatic much? The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between. He didn't have the best supporting cast this past year, but they were far from the worst.

Exactly. My god, is that so hard to understand?

BklynKnicks3
07-25-2013, 03:56 PM
more lebron fan boys fishing for credit for there guy that ran and took easiest path to a chip. No he has morE help then any player in nba history. Heat won 42 of 46 gamEs wade score 20 plus in playoffs inculded. only 4 players in the history of basketball have had the % or high EACH ONE OF THEM WON THE TITLE. #OWNED

NYJ - NYY
07-25-2013, 03:59 PM
****** need to relax man... lebron is the best in the game since jordan and kobe is slightly below lebron for the same time frame but bron will surpass mj at the end of his career and be the best player weve seen play... i hate him as a person think hes a dick for the way he acted but i have to respect his game... hes ****in awesome to watch man... respect his game... and im a knicks fan

Pablonovi
07-25-2013, 03:59 PM
Has any team won with a supporting cast that played THAT terribly during the playoffs? There was the main player, lebron, and then the support cast. They were AWFUL. Wade had a TS of 46% and scored 16 points per game. Bosh went for 12 points 7 rebounds on a measly 45.7% shooting. And it's not like these guys are defensive players who have a big impact on defense. I've never seen a worse supporting cast take the trophy. opinions?

Hopefully the OP doesn't decide I'm his new favorite whipping boy; but I feel it's my duty to point out that it is PROBABLY NO COINCIDENCE that he, el hidalgo, just recently posted on my thread, "http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?830621-All-Time-5-Greatest-Finals-Performers-Who-Were-Their-Team-s-Only-Big-Star-Then/page3
and seemingly, because my general agreement with him (that LeBron is a worthy candidate for discussion for inclusion in a possible Top 10) this doesn't seem to be enough for him.

So he has started his separate thread here.
I find a lot of the posts already in this thread (particularly #18 by "RiLoc") to be very constructive and useful. I invite you ALL to drop in on mine as well.
Thanx
Pablo

bucketss
07-25-2013, 04:03 PM
several players on the Heat bench can be starters on other teams in the NBA. i don't know where the crazy idea that the Heat has no bench came from

lol no.

bucketss
07-25-2013, 04:04 PM
more lebron fan boys fishing for credit for there guy that ran and took easiest path to a chip. No he has morE help then any player in nba history. Heat won 42 of 46 gamEs wade score 20 plus in playoffs inculded. only 4 players in the history of basketball have had the % or high EACH ONE OF THEM WON THE TITLE. #OWNED

how many times wade scored 20 in the playoffs this year? LOL dude was averaging 13 before the finals :laugh:

Federal Reserve
07-25-2013, 04:06 PM
Lebron has been winning championships with scrubs. He doesn't need to be on a stacked team, that either Kobe or Jordan was on, to win.

BklynKnicks3
07-25-2013, 04:07 PM
5 times thats more times then melo got 20 from a teammate in 3 years in ny in the playoffs
how many times wade scored 20 in the playoffs this year? Lol dude was averaging 13 before the finals :laugh:

bucketss
07-25-2013, 04:08 PM
Lebron has been winning championships with scrubs. He doesn't need to be on a stacked team, that either Kobe or Jordan was on, to win.

i love this guy:laugh:

BklynKnicks3
07-25-2013, 04:09 PM
These lebron fans are really the worst they make me dislike him even more. The funny thing is we all know when he is a free agent he will join another ready to win team. O rjust have more stars pair up with him in miami
lebron has been winning championships with scrubs. He doesn't need to be on a stacked team, that either kobe or jordan was on, to win.

bucketss
07-25-2013, 04:09 PM
5 times thats more times then melo got 20 from a teammate in 3 years in ny in the playoffs

melo is a ball hog/cancer that kills ball movement and the teams overall will to win, no wonder jr smith was drinking before games, melo made him hate the game.

BklynKnicks3
07-25-2013, 04:10 PM
Aint in funny how the 5 times wade had 20 2 of them where in games 7s and another one was that huge close to must win game vs spurs when he had 32

bucketss
07-25-2013, 04:17 PM
Aint in funny how the 5 times wade had 20 2 of them where in games 7s and another one was that huge close to must win game vs spurs when he had 32

wade has something called "heart", unlike melo that scored like 3 4th quarter points in one of the most important games of his life.

BklynKnicks3
07-25-2013, 04:34 PM
3 is still more then 11 combined lebron scored vs dallas in 6 games lmao lebron fans love hiding the stains
wade has something called "heart", unlike melo that scored like 3 4th quarter points in one of the most important games of his life.

BklynKnicks3
07-25-2013, 04:35 PM
that led to jr smith having his best season while with melo. why did chris bosh have 0 lebron should have made him better lol to easy
melo is a ball hog/cancer that kills ball movement and the teams overall will to win, no wonder jr smith was drinking before games, melo made him hate the game.

bucketss
07-25-2013, 04:55 PM
that led to jr smith having his best season while with melo. why did chris bosh have 0 lebron should have made him better lol to easy

bosh didn't quit, jr was partying because he knew melo was gonna go chuck mode anyways. dude is a cancer, a black hole.

SportsFanatic10
07-25-2013, 05:09 PM
Has any team won with a supporting cast that played THAT terribly during the playoffs? There was the main player, lebron, and then the support cast. They were AWFUL. Wade had a TS of 46% and scored 16 points per game. Bosh went for 12 points 7 rebounds on a measly 45.7% shooting. And it's not like these guys are defensive players who have a big impact on defense. I've never seen a worse supporting cast take the trophy. opinions?

lol wow, bosh got abused by duncan and hibbert down low but he was good on pick and rolls and had some big blocks. and saying wade doesn't make a big impact on defense is absolutely insane even hurt. also wade scored more pts in the finals than any spurs player, lebron had some nice help no question. and that's not even mentioning the contributions of players like allen saving the season (off a bosh offensive rebound on a lebron missed 3), and battier and miller getting hot at times from 3. chalmers having some big games, birdman shooting like 80% the list goes on dude.

Pablonovi
07-25-2013, 05:26 PM
lol wow, bosh got abused by duncan and hibbert down low but he was good on pick and rolls and had some big blocks. and saying wade doesn't make a big impact on defense is absolutely insane even hurt. also wade scored more pts in the finals than any spurs player, lebron had some nice help no question. and that's not even mentioning the contributions of players like allen saving the season (off a bosh offensive rebound on a lebron missed 3), and battier and miller getting hot at times from 3. chalmers having some big games, birdman shooting like 80% the list goes on dude.

Thanx for this post; so much more constructive a contribution that a flame war between player-homers.

Pablonovi
07-25-2013, 05:29 PM
double post, sorry

TheNumber37
07-25-2013, 05:32 PM
the blazers won a title with Bill Walton as their number 1.

this should close the thread.

Pablonovi
07-25-2013, 05:34 PM
here's a link to Hollinger's Top 50 Finals Performances since the ABA-NBA merger; an invaluable tool for helping us analize "Run-Away" One-Man Wrecking-Ball Finals-Series Performers

I just recently posted this over at my thread"
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?830621-All-Time-5-Greatest-Finals-Performers-Who-Were-Their-Team-s-Only-Big-Star-Then&p=26758868&posted=1#post26758868http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012...formances-no-1

Boy would it be helpful, for this thread especially, if we had the same information for the #2 teammate (and #1 opponent) for each of those 50 performers!!! Anybody got this???

I hope I'm not violating the rules by posting this link.

This might help here too

Pablonovi
07-25-2013, 05:35 PM
the blazers won a title with Bill Walton as their number 1.

this should close the thread.

It makes one wonder:

HAS "EL HIDALGO" / "LA HIDALGA" EVER posted a post or Thread that didn't degenerate into a all-out flame war in less than one page?

Common' El Hidalgo / La Hidalga; dude, be more friendly to PSD NBA, please!!!

P.S. Hidalgo/Hidalga: Please change to another photo. If you're gonna hate on Kobe so totally; at least put somebody else's photo next to your username - LeBron if you want to. OK?

ChicagoJ
07-25-2013, 05:42 PM
miami doesnt have the perfect players to support them. yeah, they have a lot of three point shooters. that is great for any team, especially when you have lebron dishing and the big 3 slashing. they don't even have a center though. that would make a the perfect compliment to the big 3.

they still blew in the playoffs.

It's true a decent center would fill a need they have. But Miami beats teams due to great team defense, and on offense they play a style that is very hard to defend due to their team.

If you pack the paint, defend lebron, wade, and Bosch, the outside shooters will kill you. If you guard the outside shooters the big 3 will dominate closer to the rim. It's their depth that won it all (and a little luck).

More-Than-Most
07-25-2013, 05:50 PM
#Stop.

I do think the talk of LeBron having a legendary supporting cast are a bit out of place, but saying that no star has ever had a lesser supporting cast is infinitely more ridiculous.

For this yes... For when he took the cavs to the finals I disagree. I am not sure any player ever had a worst supporting cast

ManRam
07-25-2013, 05:58 PM
For this yes... For when he took the cavs to the finals I disagree. I am not sure any player ever had a worst supporting cast

Any player, or any top-5 player? Because Thad Young will have a weaker cast.


Semantics aside, this thread wasn't created about the Cavs. It was created by an ultra-Heat-homer/troll pertaining the 2013 Heat. It's a dumb thread. You don't have to go back far to find a weaker championship supporting cast. I love LeBron, and don't think anyone since Shaq and Jordan before him could take less and do more, but this hyperbole is just that: hyperbole.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2013, 06:12 PM
5 times thats more times then melo got 20 from a teammate in 3 years in ny in the playoffs

yeah but the Knicks aren't even remote contenders, so why does Melo's support matter in this thread?

asandhu23
07-25-2013, 06:21 PM
See 1975 Golden State Warriors' roster.

Captain Moroni
07-25-2013, 06:36 PM
MJ won 6 titles with a supporting cast of half what Miami had this year. And I HATE the Bulls.

sunsfan88
07-25-2013, 06:38 PM
No.. Never. Lebron is God!!!!.. Lets continue talking about his greatness every second of every day. He won his 2nd title in a row single handedly and probably could have swept every opponent by himself. His teammates dragged him down..Hes so good, he overcame it and is unquestionably not only the best basketball player thats ever lived, hes the best that will ever live..ever!!!

Is that the answer youre looking for? lol

LeBron is the best in the world at the game of basketball and nobody in the NBA right now is even close to him so it makes sense that we talk about him in this basketball forum.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2013, 06:50 PM
MJ won 6 titles with a supporting cast of half what Miami had this year. And I HATE the Bulls.

not true at all. Please explain how Pippen/Grant/Rodman/shooters/Greatest coach of all time equals an underperforming Wade/Bosh/shooters..

ManRam
07-25-2013, 07:03 PM
MJ won 6 titles with a supporting cast of half what Miami had this year. And I HATE the Bulls.

Nope. Not in the playoffs at least.

Remind me how the following qualify as tremendous help?

Wade: 15.9 points (14.3 shots), 5 boards, 5 assists, 18.7 PER, .108 WS/48
Bosh: 12.1 points (on 10.4 shots), 7 rebounds, 1 assist 16.8 PER, .140 WS/48

Birdman had a great playoffs, the only Heat player besides LBJ who can say that. But we're talking about a guy who logged 15 minutes a game. Everyone else was a sub 15 PER player, ie, average.



Just go back and look at the Bulls playoff runs again. VERY similar, if not better for all 6. Grant/Pippen played at or above Wade/Bosh the first three years, and Kukoc/Rodman/Pippen again did the same. And after those guys, it's about the same for both teams (some defensive specialists and hit-or-miss shooters).


Very similar. There's no possible way, at the least, that you can back up your "half the cast" statement.


Again, get past "Bosh" and "Wade" and look at how they actually performed...that's all that matters. They performed like average 2nd and 3rd options.

Lakers Ghost
07-25-2013, 08:09 PM
Spare me, LeBron had plenty of help last year.....Wade, Bosh, Battier, Miller, Allen; all had a huge hand in Miami's defending their title last year. Sure they didn't play up to par all the time, but without them LeBron still has no hardware.

+1 feel the sameway no need to say it again

Bostonjorge
07-25-2013, 09:27 PM
Worst supporting cast ever and lebron will top it off by leaving the heat next year for LA. Don't see why lebron would want to play with a bunch of scrubs who are the WORST supporting cast in playoff history.