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Mile High Champ
07-25-2013, 01:24 AM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 6th year I have done this on PSD and it always brings some great discussion and debate. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron James and the Miami Heat are back to back NBA champions after an exciting 7 game series win over the Spurs. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 5 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

Due to some people complaining that the rule was not written for the PG poll; in order to be eligible for these rankings, players must of played in 10 or more games last season. Thank you.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


2013 Off-Season PSD SG Rankings
1) James Harden
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Paul George
5) Manu Ginobili
6) JR Smith
7)
8)
9)
10)


2012 Off-Season PSD SG Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Manu Ginobili
4) James Harden
5) Joe Johnson
6) Monta Ellis
7) Eric Gordon
8) Paul George
9) Kevin Martin
10) Ray Allen

2011 Off-Season PSD SG Rankings

1) Dwyane Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Manu Ginobili
4) Joe Johnson
5) Monta Ellis
6) Kevin Martin
7) Ray Allen
8) Eric Gordon
9) Jason Terry
10) James Harden

2010 Off-Season SG Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Monta Ellis
7) Ray Allen
8) Stephen Jackson
9) O.J. Mayo
10) Jason Richardson

2009 Off-Season SG Rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6) Manu Ginobili
7) Ray Allen
8) Kevin Martin
9) Ben Gordon
10) Richard Hamilton

2008 Off-Season SG rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Allen Iverson
5) Manu Ginobili
5) Vince Carter
7) Joe Johnson
8) Ray Allen
9) Brandon Roy
10) Kevin Martin

Mile High Champ
07-25-2013, 01:28 AM
Mods Please Sticky

5ass
07-25-2013, 01:59 AM
In the right situation, Afflalo is better than everyone else on this list.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2013, 02:02 AM
Lol at Manu and JR already on the list.

So for one poll, it looks like we have people only looking at past seasons without looking at how bad they were this year while for the other poll, we have people living too much in the present only using 1 season to judge a player.

Allphakenny1
07-25-2013, 02:13 AM
In the right situation, Afflalo is better than everyone else on this list.

Just call it what it is, a homer pick. You can say "in the right situation" with a lot of players on this list, but Afflalo does not deserve to go here.

tredigs
07-25-2013, 02:49 AM
.

OceanSpray
07-25-2013, 03:00 AM
Wait.. Manu at #5? Something is wrong.

BirdIsTheWord
07-25-2013, 03:09 AM
Are there any potential star (or even above-average) players at SG in the 2014 draft because this is sad.

Guppyfighter
07-25-2013, 04:28 AM
Affalo is not a bad choice.

Sportfan
07-25-2013, 04:31 AM
Vince Carter y'all

Or Eric gordon

NBA-GMaster
07-25-2013, 06:27 AM
It looks like Johnson and Ellis will end up in no. 7 and no.8.. Ill go for DeRozan..

bloomis1307
07-25-2013, 08:24 AM
Gotta be Tony Allen

dwoyo
07-25-2013, 11:35 AM
It's between Johnson, Reke, and Eric Gordon IMO.

Joe Johnson takes it here cause of his clutch play and ability to put up points in bunches, and Reke and Gordon took steps back last year. Ellis is a one dimensional shooting lunatic. Tony Allen is an incredible defender, but a liability on offense. Klay Thompson can improve to shoot up the rankings next year.

D-Leethal
07-25-2013, 12:46 PM
I'm not judging off last season, but I'd take Klay Thompson over anyone else remaining on this list.

Bruno
07-25-2013, 12:55 PM
tony allen. the only all nba level player left at this position. blue collar, hard working, posted a playoff PER of 17.7 and is by far the best defender left on the board.

5ass
07-25-2013, 01:18 PM
Just call it what it is, a homer pick. You can say "in the right situation" with a lot of players on this list, but Afflalo does not deserve to go here.

Slightly, but i do think he has a case. Afflalo was asked to step out of his comfort zone last season and play on a new team. Put him on a good team with 1st and 2nd options, and he probably would've been off the poll by now.

ManRam
07-25-2013, 01:21 PM
tony allen. the only all nba level player left at this position. blue collar, hard working, posted a playoff PER of 17.7 and is by far the best defender left on the board.

I'm confused as to why people keep saying this, and even in the last thread suggesting that he actually was an All-NBA 3rd team player.

He didn't receive one vote last year. I'm not sure he's ever received a single vote in his career.


He's my choice, but he's not that good.

Bruno
07-25-2013, 01:23 PM
I'm confused as to why people keep saying this, and even in the last thread suggesting that he actually was an All-NBA 3rd team player.

He didn't receive one vote last year. I'm not sure he's ever received a single vote in his career.


He's my choice, but he's not that good.

:confused:

he is in the all nba defensive first team. which would make him an all nba team player.

ManRam
07-25-2013, 01:56 PM
:confused:

he is in the all nba defensive first team. which would make him an all nba team player.

Gotchya. "Defensive".

I usually think "All-NBA Player" to mean he was on an "All-NBA Team".

Allphakenny1
07-25-2013, 02:18 PM
Slightly, but i do think he has a case. Afflalo was asked to step out of his comfort zone last season and play on a new team. Put him on a good team with 1st and 2nd options, and he probably would've been off the poll by now.

I get what you are saying, but the same could be said for a player like Ellis. He has been asked to be the top player on his team for like 5 or 6 years now which he is not. If he were the third option on a team he may be great.

Guppyfighter
07-25-2013, 02:27 PM
I get what you are saying, but the same could be said for a player like Ellis. He has been asked to be the top player on his team for like 5 or 6 years now which he is not. If he were the third option on a team he may be great.

When he had Curry and Lee (two players better on offense compared to him) he still played like ****. So that's a load of ****.

sunsfan88
07-25-2013, 02:31 PM
I'm not judging off last season, but I'd take Klay Thompson over anyone else remaining on this list.

Your supposed to be judging off last season....

b@llhog24
07-25-2013, 02:48 PM
:confused:

he is in the all nba defensive first team. which would make him an all nba team player.

While he made the all nba defensive team, it's kind of misleading to refer to him as an all nba teamer.

Bruno
07-25-2013, 03:17 PM
Gotchya. "Defensive".

I usually think "All-NBA Player" to mean he was on an "All-NBA Team".

yea, all nba team...defender.

Bruno
07-25-2013, 03:18 PM
While he made the all nba defensive team, it's kind of misleading to refer to him as an all nba teamer.

not really, he made the all nba defensive team. one of the many all nba teams.

ewmania
07-25-2013, 03:44 PM
jr was 6th man of the year how was he bad this season?

tony allen should be next. defense is so underrated by fans and he's the best defending guard in the league

b@llhog24
07-25-2013, 03:59 PM
not really, he made the all nba defensive team. one of the many all nba teams.

No you're technically right. I'm just pointing out where the confusion is coming from.

Ebbs
07-25-2013, 04:08 PM
MONTAAAAA

but for real I think Klay. But nah MONNNNTTTAAA

Guppyfighter
07-25-2013, 04:19 PM
MONTAAAAA

but for real I think Klay. But nah MONNNNTTTAAA


Yeah, I really like players who don't play defense and miss a ton of shots.

Chronz
07-25-2013, 04:43 PM
Slightly, but i do think he has a case. Afflalo was asked to step out of his comfort zone last season and play on a new team. Put him on a good team with 1st and 2nd options, and he probably would've been off the poll by now.

You're prolly right about that. Im voting for AA from here on out

Allphakenny1
07-25-2013, 04:44 PM
When he had Curry and Lee (two players better on offense compared to him) he still played like ****. So that's a load of ****.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Ellis was the #1 option on that team, not Curry or Lee.

Guppyfighter
07-25-2013, 06:24 PM
You have no idea what you are talking about. Ellis was the #1 option on that team, not Curry or Lee.

I don't think you understand the point. Being around efficient options didn't make him better. And he took the most shots because he wanted to take the most shots. Not because the game plan was "let ellis shoot."

He had awful shot selection and didn't pass enough. He won't all of a sudden become great at scoring efficiently because he's around efficient options. Didn't work before, won't work now.

Iggz53
07-25-2013, 07:33 PM
Do people realize just how much better Golden State got after getting rid of Ellis? Because I don't think many do.

xxplayerxx23
07-25-2013, 07:36 PM
Oj mayo!!

Guppyfighter
07-25-2013, 07:37 PM
Do people realize just how much better Golden State got after getting rid of Ellis? Because I don't think many do.

With generally the same core as well. Bogut didn't play for the first 2/3 of the season and the only addition was Barnes who was very bad in the regular season.

The differences were Jack, Landry, and no Ellis. Jack and Landry alone don't make you a playoff team.

nycericanguy
07-25-2013, 07:48 PM
defense is important yes, but the guy is awful on offense.

I went Ellis here, inefficient yes, but still an all around game, 6apg & 4rpg.

I'd still put JJ, Klay and several others above Allen.

Guppyfighter
07-25-2013, 10:04 PM
defense is important yes, but the guy is awful on offense.

I went Ellis here, inefficient yes, but still an all around game, 6apg & 4rpg.

I'd still put JJ, Klay and several others above Allen.


Tony Allen WS/48: 115
Monta Ellis WS/48: .071

Ellis is so bad on offense and he takes so many dumb shots, he is actually worse for an offense than Tony.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-25-2013, 11:11 PM
Why is Jimmy Butler not on this poll? Thibs said he will be the starting SG next year and was only forced to play SF when Deng went out.

mrblisterdundee
07-25-2013, 11:30 PM
It's probably right that Tony Allen be given the credit for his defense. Allen, Jamal Crawford, Joe Johnson and Klay Thompson are pretty close, making this a difficult choice.
Allen's nowhere near where the other guys are offensively, and Crawford contributes the most overall to wins. But Allen sticks to guards like glue, and it's hard to find that in today's NBA. It's the entire reason people are man-crushing on Kawhi Leonard.

JLynn943
07-25-2013, 11:52 PM
No one acknowledges the season Tyreke had?

PER: 18.1
TS%: .558
WS/48: .105

Also, he improved his 3pt% from 20.2% to 33.8% and had a career-high 47.8% FG%

Not to mention he isn't a one-way player

Knicks21
07-25-2013, 11:59 PM
Vince here, should of gone no 6.

LA_Raiders
07-26-2013, 12:50 AM
BS list FY 2013

sunsfan88
07-26-2013, 02:42 AM
No one acknowledges the season Tyreke had?

PER: 18.1
TS%: .558
WS/48: .105

Also, he improved his 3pt% from 20.2% to 33.8% and had a career-high 47.8% FG%

Not to mention he isn't a one-way player
He had such a good season last year that SAC decided to wave bye bye to him despite desperately needing some solid playmakers on the perimeter.

Allphakenny1
07-26-2013, 02:57 AM
I don't think you understand the point. Being around efficient options didn't make him better. And he took the most shots because he wanted to take the most shots. Not because the game plan was "let ellis shoot."

He had awful shot selection and didn't pass enough. He won't all of a sudden become great at scoring efficiently because he's around efficient options. Didn't work before, won't work now.

Under Don Nelson the game plan was for Ellis to shoot, Nelson would get mad at him for passing up open shots. Also, Ellis has pretty good assist totals for a SG. One year he lead all non PGs in assists.

Anyway, I was not arguing for him to be voted here. I was just making the case that we cannot say one player (Afflalo) is in a role they should not be in so they should get a pass when others are playing roles they should not be in as well.

Oefarmy2005
07-26-2013, 09:54 AM
No love for Kevin Martin?

SlimKid
07-26-2013, 10:05 AM
Polls close so fast

ManRam
07-26-2013, 12:30 PM
People are aware of how terrible Klay Thompson was last year, and especially in the playoffs, right?

Why so much love? I mean, I'm a big fan of his and think he'll be great someday, but he wasn't great last year at all.

How in the hell does he have 11 votes and Tyreke has 1? What are people watching?

SteBO
07-26-2013, 12:56 PM
People are aware of how terrible Klay Thompson was last year, and especially in the playoffs, right?

Why so much love? I mean, I'm a big fan of his and think he'll be great someday, but he wasn't great last year at all.

How in the hell does he have 11 votes and Tyreke has 1? What are people watching?
They're watching Klay Thompson's GS Warriors advance to the 2nd roud of the playoffs and push the Spurs to 6 games, while Tyreke's Kings are in the lottery conversation. That's about the only way you could rationalize it, but also to many you're splitting hairs because the depth at this position is soooo bad.

Guppyfighter
07-26-2013, 01:55 PM
People are aware of how terrible Klay Thompson was last year, and especially in the playoffs, right?

Why so much love? I mean, I'm a big fan of his and think he'll be great someday, but he wasn't great last year at all.

How in the hell does he have 11 votes and Tyreke has 1? What are people watching?


He played elite defense. Warriors would have been a bottom defensive team without him.


Isolation Defense
.79 PPP, Causes turnovers 10.4 percent of the time, and only allowed 22.7 on threes in isolation. More impressive when you realize he took most of the team's best wing player or guard on defense.


Defending the P&R Ball Handler
.7 PPP, ranked 45th in the league, caused a turnover 16.7 percent of the time.


Overall it was .81 PPP.

He was a game changer on defense for the Warriors.

ManRam
07-26-2013, 02:11 PM
They're watching Klay Thompson's GS Warriors advance to the 2nd roud of the playoffs and push the Spurs to 6 games, while Tyreke's Kings are in the lottery conversation. That's about the only way you could rationalize it, but also to many you're splitting hairs because the depth at this position is soooo bad.

Yeah...because they play with the same level of talent around them...

ManRam
07-26-2013, 02:20 PM
He played elite defense. Warriors would have been a bottom defensive team without him.


Isolation Defense
.79 PPP, Causes turnovers 10.4 percent of the time, and only allowed 22.7 on threes in isolation. More impressive when you realize he took most of the team's best wing player or guard on defense.


Defending the P&R Ball Handler
.7 PPP, ranked 45th in the league, caused a turnover 16.7 percent of the time.


Overall it was .81 PPP.

He was a game changer on defense for the Warriors.

A .81 PPP doesn't make you an elite game-changing defender. Puts him in the top 100, right? But still, there are better defenders left whose offense is no worse. I like PPP, but it only tells you the end result of a possession...thus, too many inherent variables. Those values suggest he's above average, for sure, even with the flaws PPP has (you can't use it in a vacuum at all). I don't buy that he was the one thing keeping that team afloat defensively. Good defender, sure, but no SG is going to be the life force of any team defensively.

He was bad enough offensively to counter any gains defensively either way.

82games had him at a net -1.4 PER last season.
His defensive RAPM was -0.55, his total was -0.64.

Meh.

Guppyfighter
07-26-2013, 02:27 PM
A .81 PPP doesn't make you an elite game-changing defender. Puts him in the top 100, right? But still, there are better defenders left whose offense is no worse. I like PPP, but it only tells you the end result of a possession...thus, too many inherent variables. Those values suggest he's above average, for sure, even with the flaws PPP has (you can't use it in a vacuum at all). I don't buy that he was the one thing keeping that team afloat defensively. Good defender, sure, but no SG is going to be the life force of any team defensively.

He was bad enough offensively to counter any gains defensively either way.

82games had him at a net -1.4 PER last season.
His defensive RAPM was -0.55, his total was -0.64.

Meh.

And PER always awards guys who take a lot of shots, no matter the outcome. Players playing against Klay took a lot of shots. Kobe took 40 shots on Klay one game (OT) and he only scored 34 points. His PER was very good for the actual game itself. So, it's an extremely meh statistic to use when trying to quantify a player who makes players take a lot of bad shots against him.

Warriors would not have been 13th in defensive efficiency without Klay. Definitely bottom 20. Warriors would not have ranked 4th in preventing shots near the rim without him or have the fifth best three point field goal percentage without him.

But he was MEH On offense.

IversonIsKrazy
07-26-2013, 03:11 PM
This SG list has to be one of the worst I've seen on PSD.

JLynn943
07-26-2013, 03:54 PM
People are aware of how terrible Klay Thompson was last year, and especially in the playoffs, right?

Why so much love? I mean, I'm a big fan of his and think he'll be great someday, but he wasn't great last year at all.

How in the hell does he have 11 votes and Tyreke has 1? What are people watching?

I don't get it. People talking about Klay, Monta, and Joe Johnson when Tyreke clearly had a better year than all three... I think it's more a matter of exposure and hype to those 3 and stigma on Tyreke for slipping after his rookie year. People don't realize that he's coming off his best year as a pro.

This is what happens with people in the NBA forum though. 99% of people have no idea what they're talking about.

JLynn943
07-26-2013, 03:57 PM
He had such a good season last year that SAC decided to wave bye bye to him despite desperately needing some solid playmakers on the perimeter.

Purely a money decision. We couldn't afford to keep him and sign enough players to help the team everywhere else we need it and have the money to re-sign Cousins. I'm still against the trade, but it's understandable to an extent.

Monta is beast
07-26-2013, 06:23 PM
Worst list I've ever seen on here. Based on production, I'd go.

1. James Harden
2. Paul George (Should be on the small forward list)
3. Kobe Bryant
4) Dwayne Wade
5. Klay Thompson
6) J.R Smith

How the hell is Thompson not on the list already? His defense is elite and his offense is above average, and he's only going to get better next season. Joke of a list IMO.

Monta is beast
07-26-2013, 06:24 PM
Tyreke Evans is not on Thompsons level g, there's a reason everyone just happens to disagree with you.