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JordansBulls
07-21-2013, 05:07 PM
Here is mine

1. Chicago Bulls
2. Miami Heat
3. Brooklyn Nets
4. Indiana Pacers
5. New York Knicks
6. Detroit Pistons
7. Cleveland Cavaliers
8. Atlanta Hawks

Edit: Thread for the Western Standings.
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?829166-Standings-in-the-West-right-now

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 05:09 PM
Here is mine

1. Chicago Bulls
2. Miami Heat
3. Brooklyn Nets
4. Indiana Pacers
5. New York Knicks
6. Detroit Pistons
7. Cleveland Cavaliers
8. Atlanta Hawks

haha....I just fell out of my chair. Bulls good one

ManRam
07-21-2013, 05:10 PM
1. Miami
2. Brooklyn
3. Chicago
4. Indiana
5. New York
6. Washington
7. Cleveland
8. Atlanta

I don't think it's too foolish to have the Bulls at the top. I think very little will separate the top 3-4 teams this year.

JordansBulls
07-21-2013, 05:10 PM
haha....I just fell out of my chair. Bulls good one

You realize the Bulls were the top seed two years in a row even when the Miami Big 3 was formed right? I think Miami will win between 57-60 games. Bulls will aim for HCA and get 61-63 wins.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-21-2013, 05:12 PM
haha....I just fell out of my chair. Bulls good one

they had the best record in the league the last two years before Rose got hurt. Wouldn't be surprised one bit.

1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Pacers
4. Nets (regular season: chemistry issues at the onset, resting players throughout the season, hopefully 3 seed though)
5. Knicks
6. Hawks
7. Wizards
8. Cavaliers

Heat/Cav and Nets/Knicks first round

Gators123
07-21-2013, 05:14 PM
1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Nets
4. Pacers
5. Knicks
6. Pistons
7. Wizards
8. Hawks

alexander_37
07-21-2013, 05:15 PM
No it's


1. Chicago Bulls
1. Miami Heat
1. Brooklyn Nets
1. Indiana Pacers
1. New York Knicks
1. Detroit Pistons
1. Cleveland Cavaliers
1. Atlanta Hawks

justinnum1
07-21-2013, 05:21 PM
heat
pacers
nets
bulls

rest don't matter.

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 05:23 PM
Heat
Indy

rest doesn't matter

JeremiahWing
07-21-2013, 05:24 PM
1. Chicago
2. Miami
3. Indiana
4. Nets
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Pistons
8. Bucks

KnickaBocka.44
07-21-2013, 05:25 PM
I love it.

DamnGoat
07-21-2013, 05:55 PM
haha....I just fell out of my chair. Bulls good one


Heat
Indy

rest doesn't matter
I'm not sure why it's funny that JB listed the Bulls as a top 2 team? It's probably more likely to happen than the Pacers being there. Even last year, with just about everything in their favor they were just the 3 seed. IMO they reached their ceiling last season and will go back to being 2nd best in their own division and no better than a 3-4 seed in the conference. They're the Grizzlies of the East.

J4KOP99
07-21-2013, 06:00 PM
Because of their tremendous defense, the Bulls tend to perform extremely well during the regular season. It would not surprise me if they once again end up at #1 in the east, record wise.

Chi/Miami
Miami/Chi
Brooklyn
Indiana
NYK

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 06:02 PM
I'm not sure why it's funny that JB listed the Bulls as a top 2 team? It's probably more likely to happen than the Pacers being there. Even last year, with just about everything in their favor they were just the 3 seed. IMO they reached their ceiling last season and will go back to being 2nd best in their own division and no better than a 3-4 seed in the conference. They're the Grizzlies of the East.

I think it is funny that he thinks the Bulls are a top seed. Sorry but I think they are a 4 seed at best and in the conference a 4 seed might as well be an 8 seed. Bulls have peaked IMO and getting rid of Asik will continue to bite them.

abe_froman
07-21-2013, 06:05 PM
I think it is funny that he thinks the Bulls are a top seed. Sorry but I think they are a 4 seed at best and in the conference a 4 seed might as well be an 8 seed. Bulls have peaked IMO and getting rid of Asik will continue to bite them.
how s it funny? the bulls have had the top seed 2 of the past 3 years,its a very likely scenario.like/hate them,whatever,they do win alot of regular season games.

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 06:08 PM
how s it funny? the bulls have had the top seed 2 of the past 3 years,its a very likely scenario.like/hate them,whatever,they do win alot of regular season games.

I think the level of competition passed them since Rose went down. Every team in the East has gotten better since 11/12, I think the Bulls have since peaked and gotten worse (not horrible but I think they are out of serious contention).

KnickaBocka.44
07-21-2013, 06:22 PM
Anyone here ever heard of the term "hive mind"?

JerseyPalahniuk
07-21-2013, 06:25 PM
Anyone here ever heard of the term "hive mind"?

Yes, I have. Just curious, are you referring to everyone predicting the Knicks as the 5th seed even though they were the 2nd seed last season and got better this off-season?

RLundi
07-21-2013, 06:27 PM
Of course JB puts Bulls number one.

1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. Bulls
4. Nets
5. Knicks
6. Hawks
7. Wizards
8. Bucks

Legendary33
07-21-2013, 07:01 PM
1.Heat
2.Bulls
3.Knicks
4.Pacers
5.Nets
6.Raptors
7.Pistons
8.Cavs

There will be a big differential in wins between top 5 teams and the last three.

Backstabber
07-21-2013, 07:05 PM
1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Knicks
4. Pacers
5. Nets
6. Cavs
7. Pistons
8. Wizards

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 07:06 PM
1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Knicks
4. Pacers
5. Nets
6. Cavs
7. Pistons
8. Wizards

This is how I see it, except the Pistons are 6, and Cavs are 7.......not 100% sure on the wizards just yet, but Wall is in a contract year so there is that.

Gators123
07-21-2013, 07:07 PM
:shrug: I wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls got the #1 seed.

DamnGoat
07-21-2013, 07:09 PM
I think the level of competition passed them since Rose went down. Every team in the East has gotten better since 11/12, I think the Bulls have since peaked and gotten worse (not horrible but I think they are out of serious contention).
Eh, you're just exaggerating to make your point seem stronger than it really is.

Teams have improved, sure, but they haven't gotten so much better that the Bulls can no longer compete with them. Every team that your putting ahead of them (guessing Miami, Brooklyn & Indy) has glaring weaknesses of their own. To suggest they're no better than 4 seed is laughable.

Ryan328
07-21-2013, 07:09 PM
1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Pacers
4. Nets
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wizards
8. Pistons/ Raptors....haven't decided yet.

Bostonjorge
07-21-2013, 07:12 PM
1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Bulls
4. Pacers
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wizards
8. Detroit

Heat , Nets , Cavs , Pacers second round teams.

Guppyfighter
07-21-2013, 07:16 PM
Yes, I have. Just curious, are you referring to everyone predicting the Knicks as the 5th seed even though they were the 2nd seed last season and got better this off-season?

They actually got demonstrably worse.

Guppyfighter
07-21-2013, 07:17 PM
1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Pacers
4. Nets
5. Hawks
6. Knicks
7. Wizards
8. Cavaliers or Bucks

TrueFan420
07-21-2013, 07:19 PM
You realize the Bulls were the top seed two years in a row even when the Miami Big 3 was formed right? I think Miami will win between 57-60 games. Bulls will aim for HCA and get 61-63 wins.
It's a fair point but with rosť coming back from injury and no one really sure how he will play its a little premature to claim they will have the one seed

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 07:22 PM
Heat
Nets
Bulls
Pacers
Knicks
Hawks
Cavs
up for grabs from whatever sub .500 team makes it this year in the top heavy crappy east

DetroitBadBoy
07-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Just some notes..

Are the Bucks still a playoff team with Monta and Redick replaced by Mayo?

If Bynum/ Irving stay healthy all season, the Cavs could go as high as 5 or 6 seed.

Wizards definitely make playoffs if Wall stays healthy this season and Otto fills that glue guy roll.

ATL losing Josh Smith makes the Hawks defense a lot worse. Millsap/Horford frontcourt gets outworked by most others, though probably mesh better on offense.

Pistons front court will be near toughest to face in the league, with addition Josh Smith and the sharpshooters to spread the floor. Definitely make playoffs from 6-8 seed.

Celtics are not a horrible team, Gerald Wallace is no slouch, been buried on benches. Rondo will return to form and Sullinger will step into KGs roll well.

Other than all that I think the first 5 are set how I have it then the rest up for grabs:

Heat
Pacers (Bulls)
Bulls (Pacers)
Knicks
Nets
Pistons
Wizards
Celtics

smiddy012
07-21-2013, 07:25 PM
I think it is funny that he thinks the Bulls are a top seed. Sorry but I think they are a 4 seed at best and in the conference a 4 seed might as well be an 8 seed. Bulls have peaked IMO and getting rid of Asik will continue to bite them.

Lol Asik is the difference. Damn you are intelligent.

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 07:27 PM
Eh, you're just exaggerating to make your point seem stronger than it really is.

Teams have improved, sure, but they haven't gotten so much better that the Bulls can no longer compete with them. Every team that your putting ahead of them (guessing Miami, Brooklyn & Indy) has glaring weaknesses of their own. To suggest they're no better than 4 seed is laughable.

I think they are a two seed, them or Indy. i just think the Bulls will not have as great as a regular season because the comp level has increased. I don't see a 60+ win season. Not discrediting them, but I think Miami is the better regular season team at this point and they proved why last year.

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 07:28 PM
Lol Asik is the difference. Damn you are intelligent.

Depth at big man when you play the Pistons and Indy often is a need. The Bulls lost a decent big man in Asik. They are a 2-4 seed but they are not the team they were in 11-12

joshhorvath
07-21-2013, 07:30 PM
Where the Raptors? They get no love? they finished 9th last year, and probably got a lil better this offseason.

Traded away Bargnani
gained Hansbrough, Augestine and Novak.
Valanciunes will have an amazing sopohmere season.

it would surprise me if the Raptors WERE NOT in the playoffs next season.

smiddy012
07-21-2013, 07:31 PM
It's a fair point but with rosť coming back from injury and no one really sure how he will play its a little premature to claim they will have the one seed

You make a fair point. I would counter it though by saying that everyone who's seen him workout lately says he's got hit old athleticism back. From the FO, to Thibbs, to Rose himself, they're all saying he's fully recovered. Perhaps this should be taken with a grain of salt, but the last thing the Bulls are trying to do is rush the situation. So basically, I don't think they'd BS us about his status at this point.

I would conservatively put the Bulls somewhere between 2-3. Only two teams I'm worried about are Indy and Miami. However, if I were guaranteed the Bulls health, I'd probably bet on a 1st seed.

Legendary33
07-21-2013, 07:31 PM
Can somebody explain to me why everyone has the hawks in the playoffs this year??? I see very little depth in this team and a very weak starting lineup. Milsap/Horford combo will be solid IF they stay healthy, then theres just a 35 year old Brand to back them up. Teague is an interesting young point guard but not ready to lead a team and their wing players are average at best.

Please somebody tell me if i'm missing something because the east has really improved this year and i don't see them as the competitors they once were.

goku
07-21-2013, 07:36 PM
You realize the Bulls were the top seed two years in a row even when the Miami Big 3 was formed right? I think Miami will win between 57-60 games. Bulls will aim for HCA and get 61-63 wins.

it still doesn't matter Until Rose gets some help in the backcourt the bulls will fall short to the heat and we also have to see if Rose is even the same player or how timid he will be

JordansBulls
07-21-2013, 07:39 PM
I think it is funny that he thinks the Bulls are a top seed. Sorry but I think they are a 4 seed at best and in the conference a 4 seed might as well be an 8 seed. Bulls have peaked IMO and getting rid of Asik will continue to bite them.

Bulls were the top seed two years in a row. The first year they got the top seed with there #2 guy out 20 games and #3 guy out 30 games. The next year they got the top seed with there #1 guy out 27 games.

smiddy012
07-21-2013, 07:42 PM
Depth at big man when you play the Pistons and Indy often is a need. The Bulls lost a decent big man in Asik. They are a 2-4 seed but they are not the team they were in 11-12

They're actually better. Boozer's best season here was last season, so was Noah's probably. Noah has finally emerged as a bonified star-caliber player. IF those two, along with Taj, remain healthy, our back-up center doesn't really matter a whole lot.

The biggest "acquisition" of sorts though has been Jimmy Butler. The kids a future all-star, you can book it. The kid shuts down SGs and SFs, and has done nothing but improve his offense as his career has gone on.

Rose/JB/Deng/Booz/Noah

If you consider how JB, Booz, and Noah have developed, then add in a healthy Rose and Deng, and you got the most well-rounded starting 5 in the league. One veteran all-star, 3 current all-stars, and 1 future all-star. The only hole is Boozer's defense.

Then we got Dunleavy off the bench. He's better than Korver or Marco, and he's more well-rounded and consistent than Nate. Hinrich too, although injury prone, I'll take him 100 out of 100 times over Watson or JL3. Then we got Taj, who's probably a solid starting PF in the league if he ever got a real shot at a starting job. And yes, we got Nazr, we wish we had a better back-up center but he proved himself as a decent back-up toward the end of last season and the playoffs. Lastly we got Snell, a defensive wing who can shoot, he's said to be in the "Jimmy Butler" mold, but we'll see where that winds up.

Point is, if healthy, this is the best the Bulls have been since MJ left. When you look at all the injuries we had last season, and how well we still did, there is no reason to think that we are on the decline (unless you believe that the old Rose is gone).

JerseyPalahniuk
07-21-2013, 07:45 PM
Depth at big man when you play the Pistons and Indy often is a need. The Bulls lost a decent big man in Asik. They are a 2-4 seed but they are not the team they were in 11-12

I thought you JUST said in the first page that they were a 4th seed at best hahahah. Flippity flop

xxplayerxx23
07-21-2013, 07:45 PM
Heat
Bulls
Knicks
Indy
Nets
Cavs
Hawks
Pistons

goku
07-21-2013, 07:48 PM
1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. Bulls
4. Nets
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wiz
8. Raps

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 07:53 PM
I thought you JUST said in the first page that they were a 4th seed at best hahahah. Flippity flop

For now they are 2-4 on paper (which is the point of this thread), in actuality I think they end the season as a 4th seed. The 4 seed is based off how I see it playing out with player on other East teams panning out and improving, that is specualtion.

you fail to realize the difference between paper and what a team is actually capable of.

uprightciti
07-21-2013, 07:55 PM
Where the Raptors? They get no love? they finished 9th last year, and probably got a lil better this offseason.

Traded away Bargnani
gained Hansbrough, Augestine and Novak.
Valanciunes will have an amazing sopohmere season.

it would surprise me if the Raptors WERE NOT in the playoffs next season.

DUDE....DUUUUUUDE

are you crazy!?!?!

The Raptors neeeeed to tank this season.
its not even an option
THEY NEEEED TO TANK

why?

because of this dude
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/andrew-wiggins
just stated that he wanted to be a raptor and is from canada

anyway...
1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. New York
4. Brooklyn
5. Bulls
6. Cavs
7. Washington
8. Detroit

FYL_McVeezy
07-21-2013, 07:58 PM
LOL I love how everyone has NYK 5th because the media told them so....

1. Miami
2. Chicago
3. New York
4. Indy
5. Brooklyn
6. Detroit
7. Cleveland
8. Atlanta

Punk
07-21-2013, 07:59 PM
1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Bulls
4. Pacers
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wizards
8. Pistons


LOL I love how everyone has NYK 5th because the media told them so....

1. Miami
2. Chicago
3. New York
4. Indy
5. Brooklyn
6. Detroit
7. Cleveland
8. Atlanta

No, I'm pretty sure it's because people aren't delusional. All four teams look miles better. It's obvious.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-21-2013, 08:02 PM
For now they are 2-4 on paper (which is the point of this thread), in actuality I think they end the season as a 4th seed. The 4 seed is based off how I see it playing out with player on other East teams panning out and improving, that is specualtion.

you fail to realize the difference between paper and what a team is actually capable of.

Dude the point of that post is to point iut how you keep posting contradicting opinions. You say 4th seed at best and then later on quote someone who have the bulls at 2 saying I agree with this. Maybe you don't know what "at best" means?? I don't care where you put the Bulls just be consistent at least man.

And I'm pretty damn sure the Bulls are capable of getting the 2 (even 1) seed after doing so for two consecutive years just a year ago.im pretty sure everyone is posting what they believe will happen "in actuality" hahaha. You're not the only one dude

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 08:08 PM
Dude the point of that post is to point iut how you keep posting contradicting opinions. You say 4th seed at best and then later on quote someone who have the bulls at 2 saying I agree with this. Maybe you don't know what "at best" means?? I don't care where you put the Bulls just be consistent at least man.

And I'm pretty damn sure the Bulls are capable of getting the 2 (even 1) seed after doing so for two consecutive years just a year ago.

Based on paper (which is the point of this thread) they are a 2 seed. Based on how I see the season playing out I think they are really a 4 seed.

Sorry for hurting you feelings. I love you and think you are a great human being. *

* Sarcasm, I get banned for calling people stupid.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-21-2013, 08:10 PM
Based on paper (which is the point of this thread) they are a 2 seed. Based on how I see the season playing out I think they are really a 4 seed.

Sorry for hurting you feelings. I love you and think you are a great human being. *

* Sarcasm, I get banned for calling people stupid.

I think you have never been called out for flopping on opinions. Hope you learned anything from this.

cssdmark
07-21-2013, 08:10 PM
Miami
New York
Chicago
Indiana
Brooklynn

cssdmark
07-21-2013, 08:13 PM
1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Bulls
4. Pacers
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wizards
8. Pistons



No, I'm pretty sure it's because people aren't delusional. All four teams look miles better. It's obvious.

Looks can be deceiving and last time I checked games were not played on looks. If that was the case the Lakers team with Shaq, Kobe, The Glove, and Malone would have swept that Detroit team in 4.

FYL_McVeezy
07-21-2013, 08:15 PM
1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Bulls
4. Pacers
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wizards
8. Pistons



No, I'm pretty sure it's because people aren't delusional. All four teams look miles better. It's obvious.

Everything that giltters ain't gold bruh.....ask the 2012 Lakers

Knicks21
07-21-2013, 08:16 PM
1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Bulls
4. Pacers
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wizards
8. Pistons



No, I'm pretty sure it's because people aren't delusional. All four teams look miles better. It's obvious.
Miles is a stretch, they are better, but keep in mind its the same group that won 54 games last year. So it isnt obvious, its subjective.

ChitownBears22
07-21-2013, 08:18 PM
I think you have never been called out for flopping on opinions. Hope you learned anything from this.

I'm not flopping, they are different circumstances. You do realize that.... right?

Why do you think I want the respect of someone I have zero respect for (you).

abe_froman
07-21-2013, 08:20 PM
Can somebody explain to me why everyone has the hawks in the playoffs this year??? I see very little depth in this team and a very weak starting lineup. Milsap/Horford combo will be solid IF they stay healthy, then theres just a 35 year old Brand to back them up. Teague is an interesting young point guard but not ready to lead a team and their wing players are average at best.

Please somebody tell me if i'm missing something because the east has really improved this year and i don't see them as the competitors they once were.

they have a pretty good line up,and after the top 5 the east is weak as hell(a losing record will still get you in the playoffs most years.)so a teague/milsap/horford trio is easily playoff material.nobody really improved all that much except the nets,indy and bulls(the later two with stars coming back)

goku
07-21-2013, 08:26 PM
LOL I love how everyone has NYK 5th because the media told them so....

1. Miami
2. Chicago
3. New York
4. Indy
5. Brooklyn
6. Detroit
7. Cleveland
8. Atlanta

wat exactly have they done to improve sign and aged metta and one dimensional bargani that sounds like 5th seed to me

Bostonjorge
07-21-2013, 08:29 PM
I got Knicks losing in 1st round

Munkeysuit
07-21-2013, 08:36 PM
Dude who made this thread can list any team he wants as his top team, all he asked was "who did we think was at the top?" I mean listing the Bulls at the top may be surprising but it doesn't make him right. Nobody can predict how the up coming season will turn out, no ones a fortune teller and can see into the future, thats the fun part about all of this, come here, list your teams and then watch to see if your correct! there is no right or wrong.
However, I do strongly feel that when making these types of predictions, you consider the top team from last season (Miami Heat) as the top dog, simply out of respect and because they are the defending champions.

1. Miami Heat
2. Indiana Pacers
3. Brooklyn Nets
4. Chicago Bulls
5. New York Knicks
6. the rest don't matter

FYL_McVeezy
07-21-2013, 08:41 PM
wat exactly have they done to improve sign and aged metta and one dimensional bargani that sounds like 5th seed to me

We won 54 games last year, and got the 2nd seed. What exactly did we need to improve on in the regular season? We traded Marcus Camby who played max 20 games last season and a one trick pony in Novak who can't get a shot off in the playoffs for a 7 footer who can stretch the floor and drag those bruising bigs out of the paint. Then we signed Metta who won't have to play big minutes, just be the enforcer he is on the defensive end. This is in addition to our core of Melo, Amare who will be better assimilated with the team this season, a healthy Shump, and 6MOY JR Smith. But it's okay you can go ahead and keep watching ESPN for your opinions if you'd like.....

I have the two teams that are "lightyears" ahead of the Knicks already ahead of them so I don't see why this is so farfetched.....

goku
07-21-2013, 08:42 PM
Heat the champs, Bulls getting Rose back, Nets got better even though its for the short term and the pacers are still better than the knicks plus they are adding Granger or could trade him for more pieces

1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. Bulls
4.Nets
5.Knicks

3RDASYSTEM
07-21-2013, 08:44 PM
BULLS have had they time and maxed out at ECF, they are maxed out with same roster, if NOAH is a top 5 CENTER now then he was 3yrs ago, he's not changing a series on offensive side, that's where they need it most because THIBS scheme is 2nd to none, only BROWN-RILEY and couple others compare as far as scheme

Same thing with PACERS this is they last year to 'breakthrough' or its time to tear that core up, besides HIBB-GEORGE

MIAMI are fav to go to 4th straight FINALS out of EAST especially if healthy, its a super wrap then

KNICKS-ATL don't have enough, BKN is tricky because they have what it takes as far as battle tested but I don't know if JJ has enough big shots left in the tank, PIERCE is on his last leg but still the man when it comes to last second shots

teams only get a 3-5 yr window to compete for titles with a ship type core, some don't get lucky like a SHAQ-bean duo for 8yrs or back in 80's with LAKERS and C's

best lastest examples would be PISTON's run from 2002-2006' and C's run from 08-12', they both went to 2 FINALS and won a ring during that span

MIAMI is on a heavier tear to start going 3 for 3 and with a option for 3 or 4more yrs together, if they reach 6-7 FINALS with 5 or 6 titles that is a crazy run, something like that 60's CELTICS or 90's BULLS or better

I hope they play an entire decade so BRON can basically go to 10 FINALS and I don't care how many he wins or loses that will be a modern day RUSSELL like run

afman
07-21-2013, 09:10 PM
too early to say but probably

Heat, Ind, Knicks, Nets, Bull ....

mrblisterdundee
07-21-2013, 09:14 PM
1. Miami
2. Indiana
3. Brooklyn
4. Chicago (will jump to two if the old Rose comes back)
5. New York
6. Washington
7. Cleveland
8. Toronto
8. Detroit

I think Toronto, at this point, has a more well-rounded team than Detroit, which is more like a truck without a driver. It's hard to see Josh Smith, Greg Monroe and and Andre Drummond exist well together, especially without a really good point guard to get them all looks.
Hey; maybe they should sign Brandon Jennings.
:badidea:

Sinattle
07-21-2013, 09:23 PM
1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. Nets
4. Bulls
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Wizards
8. Hawks

Dade County
07-21-2013, 09:32 PM
(?) Nets or Pacers
HEAT
(?) Nets or Pacers
Bulls
Knicks
Toronto
Fighting for 7 & 8

Cav's, Atl, Pistons, Wiz

Chill_Will_24
07-21-2013, 09:46 PM
Heat
Nets
Bulls
Pacers

the bottom 4 seeds are just playoff fodder and wont even matter IMO with the only one that could potentially be a problem being the Cavs if Bynum and Irving are healthy

Guppyfighter
07-21-2013, 09:58 PM
Heat
Nets
Bulls
Pacers

the bottom 4 seeds are just playoff fodder and wont even matter IMO with the only one that could potentially be a problem being the Cavs if Bynum and Irving are healthy

Always potential for upsets.

Cool007
07-21-2013, 10:04 PM
My top 5.

1 - Chicago Bulls
2 - Miami Heat
3 - Brooklyn Nets
4 - Indiana Pacers/Knicks
5 - NY Knicks/Pacers

BIG GAP

6-8 - I can see Hawks, Cavs, Wizards make but but they all will be less than 40-win team.

ManRam
07-21-2013, 10:17 PM
Dude who made this thread can list any team he wants as his top team, all he asked was "who did we think was at the top?" I mean listing the Bulls at the top may be surprising but it doesn't make him right. Nobody can predict how the up coming season will turn out, no ones a fortune teller and can see into the future, thats the fun part about all of this, come here, list your teams and then watch to see if your correct! there is no right or wrong.

Seriously. I don't get why people get their panties in such a bunch about this. Strange **** happens every year...there's nothing wrong with picking something slightly risky. These are just stupid predictions.

It's almost as bad as people getting upset when people aren't giving their team "respect". Who the **** cares about that either? Just hope your team proves them wrong. Not like any of this matters.

SeoulBeatz
07-21-2013, 10:24 PM
1) Heat
2) Bulls
3) Pacers
4) Nets
5) Cavs
6) Knicks
7) Wizards
8) Raptors

Whoa.... a lot's changed in a year.

*Silver&Black*
07-21-2013, 10:26 PM
Heat
Bulls
Nets
Pacers
Hawks
Knicks
Pistons
Cavs

PacersForLife
07-21-2013, 10:26 PM
Miami
Indiana
Chicago
Brooklyn
New York
Cleveland
Atlanta
Washington

Bottom few are tough to predict. I could see the Pistons at 7 or 8 as well.

sportsfan222
07-21-2013, 10:46 PM
1.bulls
2.heat
3.pacers
4.nets
5.knicks
6.cavs
7.pistons
8.wizards

dolfan720
07-21-2013, 11:40 PM
1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. Bulls
4. Nets
5. Knicks
6. Pistons
7. Bucks
8. Wizards
9. Cavs
10. Hawks
11. Bobcats
12. Raptors
13. Celtics
14. Magic
15. 76ers

Picks 7-9 are really close. I could see the Cavs at 7 actually and the Bucks or Wiz just missing the playoffs

VinceCarter
07-22-2013, 12:10 AM
All I can say is the Nets have HUGE potential. I can only hope Kidd and Lawrence Frank can coach them to success.

ArmLaker
07-22-2013, 12:45 AM
Is it fair to say the top 5 will be these teams

Heat
Nets
Knicks
Bulls
Pacers

in no specific order of course? It's the East.....the rest doesn't matter to put it harshly.

MyDRoseLikeDeng
07-22-2013, 01:09 AM
I think it is funny that he thinks the Bulls are a top seed. Sorry but I think they are a 4 seed at best and in the conference a 4 seed might as well be an 8 seed. Bulls have peaked IMO and getting rid of Asik will continue to bite them.

Lol

MyDRoseLikeDeng
07-22-2013, 01:21 AM
IMO, the first two seeds are obvious.. Miami and Chicago. As much as Indy scares me in the playoffs, they won 49(50) games last season, and adding Granger back will get them to 55-57 wins tops. The Knicks won 54 and added Bargnani, so I expect them to be around 55-57 as well. The Nets are a big question mark because of chemistry and I think they will struggle out of the gate, on their way to 53-55 wins.

How I see it playing out is one of two ways. Miami is going to try to break the 72 win bulls record and will probably make it one of their goals this season. If they find that goal to be attainable and within reach, they will go for it and will get the one seed. If they stumble a little at the beginning of the season, I expect them to go for rest and save their energy for the postseason. I dont think Miami has a real legitimate shot at 72, so I got the Bulls as the one seed. To say the Bulls have gotten worse since 11-12 is foolish to say the least.

1. Bulls (Heat)
2. Heat (Bulls)
3. Knicks
4. Pacers
5. Nets
6. Cavs
7. Hawks
8. Raptors

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-22-2013, 01:26 AM
Mine currently:

1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Pacers
4. Bulls
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Hawks
8. Wizards

Kashmir13579
07-22-2013, 01:28 AM
The Bulls could easily take the #1 seed with Rose coming back.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2013, 01:30 AM
All I can say is the Nets have HUGE potential. I can only hope Kidd and Lawrence Frank can coach them to success.

Huge potential for injuries and player retirement.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-22-2013, 01:41 AM
Huge potential for injuries and player retirement.

Says the guy with Amare, Metta, and Barganni on his team. Good luck being mediocre this year champ :rolleyes:

MyDRoseLikeDeng
07-22-2013, 01:46 AM
Says the guy with Amare, Metta, and Barganni on his team. Good luck being mediocre this year champ :rolleyes:

And so it begins :clap:

Chill_Will_24
07-22-2013, 02:26 AM
Says the guy with Amare, Metta, and Barganni on his team. Good luck being mediocre this year champ :rolleyes:

I love the hate that the Nets generate. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pierce had three triple doubles last year, most in 10 years; back to back 40 and 35 point games. Towards the end of the season because of the heavy minutes after the Rondo injury he had a bad playoff series vs. Knicks. Garnett led the NBA playoffs in rebounding at 13.7 per game. Had six games of 20 and 10. He was also an all star last year. Like Pierce the heavy minutes after Rondo went down took its toll on him. All of a sudden these guys are ready to retire and will get plagued by all kind of injuries even though the Nets are now deep enough to limit their minutes as they please.

The hate and jealousy that Prokhorov is generating is hilarious

LBJ6
07-22-2013, 02:53 AM
You realize the Bulls were the top seed two years in a row even when the Miami Big 3 was formed right? I think Miami will win between 57-60 games. Bulls will aim for HCA and get 61-63 wins.
But that was 2 years ago, the heat haven't really found their gear, unlike last year. They've won 66 games last year I don't think its hard for them to win 60+ games next season and be the 1st seed again.

tredigs
07-22-2013, 03:34 AM
1 - Heat [won 66 last year, I don't see why they lose more than 5 more max. 62-66 wins]
2 - Bulls [Rose should be good to go, I see 55-60 wins from them]
3 - Nets [D-Will should click well with KG and Pierce and their backups are nice. 54-58 wins]
4 - Pacers [Coming in with a lot of confidence and now Granger's back. 54-58 wins]
5 - Knicks [Not a fan of Bargnani or losing J. Kidd + Novak, but they're still OK. 49-54 wins]
Meh. I can't say for sure after that. Hawks + Cavs should be in the mix. Definitely all sub 50 win teams.

RiceOnTheRun
07-22-2013, 04:00 AM
I'm not sure why it's funny that JB listed the Bulls as a top 2 team? It's probably more likely to happen than the Pacers being there. Even last year, with just about everything in their favor they were just the 3 seed. IMO they reached their ceiling last season and will go back to being 2nd best in their own division and no better than a 3-4 seed in the conference. They're the Grizzlies of the East.

Except they're younger.

They're still growing into themselves imo. Roy Hibbert is only 26, that's barely entering the prime ages of a big man. Paul George is 23, compare any elite SF today to when they were 23, he still has so much room to grow. Not to mention they actually have other offensive threats in Danny Granger, David West and Lance Stephenson. I ****ing hate the Pacers, and this is probably one of the reasons why. If they keep the core of this team together, I see them as a possibly contender.

***** please, their ceiling is still nowhere in sight.

RiceOnTheRun
07-22-2013, 04:02 AM
1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. Bulls
4. Nets
5. Knicks
6. Cavs
7. Hawks
8. Wizards

RollingWave
07-22-2013, 04:56 AM
1.Heat
2.Bulls
3.Pacers
4.Nets
5.Knicks
6.Hawks
7.Wizards
8. Cavs
9. Bucks
10. Pistons
11. Raptors
12. Celtics
13. Magic
14. Bobcats
15. Sixers

Knicks21
07-22-2013, 05:17 AM
Heat
Nets
Bulls
Pacers

the bottom 4 seeds are just playoff fodder and wont even matter IMO with the only one that could potentially be a problem being the Cavs if Bynum and Irving are healthy

I dont see the Nets making the top 5 IMO.

RollingWave
07-22-2013, 06:34 AM
Health permitting, Nets will be top 4. At their stages of the career, Garnett and Pierce will do fine adapting to smaller roles. the question remains health, but their roster is deep as hell at this point.

Jaded
07-22-2013, 07:17 AM
1. Chicago Bulls
2. Miami Heat
3. New York Knicks
4. Indiana Pacers
5. Brooklyn Nets
6. Detroit Pistons
7. Cleveland Cavaliers
8. Washington Wizards/Atlanta Hawks/Milwaukee Bucks (either one of these teams)

dalton749
07-22-2013, 07:22 AM
how do people have the bucks still fighting for 8th
they barley hung on to it last year and they aren't gunna be any better this year
the rest of the east has improved I don't see how there is anyway they make it

I think people are sleeping on the raps, the team knows they have to step it up or they team will be blown up by January

4milesperday
07-22-2013, 09:06 AM
I think the Wiz will make the play-offs.

1. Chi town
2. Indiana
3. Miami
4. Knicks
5. Cleveland
6. Wiz
7. Brooklyn
8. Detroit

Rockice_8
07-22-2013, 09:15 AM
Heat
Bulls
Nets
Knicks
Pacers

who cares. .

BklynKnicks3
07-22-2013, 09:57 AM
I love how everyone just has knicks 5th lol. In reality we can finish anywhere between 2-5. The nets have a load of talent but who knows how they will gel u have to many guy who need the ball in there hands a center who needs lot of touches. A first year coach. They remind me of the laker team with malone n payton only they dont have kobe and shaq

nycericanguy
07-22-2013, 10:03 AM
Pacers are a good team, but people saying adding Granger will give them 8-10 more wins?

Not sure Granger is that kind of player anymore, and with the East improving, it's going to be hard for 4-5 teams to win 55+ games.

Knicks added MWP & Bargs, but I don't think they can add much more wins with the way the East improved.

Bulls won 60 games when the east was weaker, and when they had a great bench with Asik & Korver. I'm not sure they can do that now. Especially with Rose not having played a single game in well over a year now.

MIA - 65
CHI, NY, IND, BK - should all be around 50-55 wins... it's a toss up after MIA really.

Yankeefan213
07-22-2013, 10:16 AM
Keep throwing the Knicks out of the top 4. Please. This is exactly what happened last year

Sly Guy
07-22-2013, 10:28 AM
We won 54 games last year, and got the 2nd seed. What exactly did we need to improve on in the regular season? We traded Marcus Camby who played max 20 games last season and a one trick pony in Novak who can't get a shot off in the playoffs for a 7 footer who can stretch the floor and drag those bruising bigs out of the paint. Then we signed Metta who won't have to play big minutes, just be the enforcer he is on the defensive end. This is in addition to our core of Melo, Amare who will be better assimilated with the team this season, a healthy Shump, and 6MOY JR Smith. But it's okay you can go ahead and keep watching ESPN for your opinions if you'd like.....

I have the two teams that are "lightyears" ahead of the Knicks already ahead of them so I don't see why this is so farfetched.....

I can't wait for knicks fans to find out what bargnani is really like.

My rankings aside, I don't regard the knicks very highly this season. I felt that their team last year's win total had a lot to do with their early season 3 point shooting, and when that dried up, the team wasn't the same. I think it's a bad strategy to build a team around 3-point shooting, especially with so many of them coming from JR "I never saw a shot I didn't like" Smith and expect to win on a consistent basis. Adding a low efficiency shooter in MWP, and Bargnani [I'll let him off on criticism for now cuz he'll be getting plenty in the NY press next year] doesn't make you much better. Their ceiling to me is a 2nd round out at the very best. A playoff team to be sure, but definitely not a contender.

nycericanguy
07-22-2013, 10:39 AM
I can't wait for knicks fans to find out what bargnani is really like.

My rankings aside, I don't regard the knicks very highly this season. I felt that their team last year's win total had a lot to do with their early season 3 point shooting, and when that dried up, the team wasn't the same. I think it's a bad strategy to build a team around 3-point shooting, especially with so many of them coming from JR "I never saw a shot I didn't like" Smith and expect to win on a consistent basis. Adding a low efficiency shooter in MWP, and Bargnani [I'll let him off on criticism for now cuz he'll be getting plenty in the NY press next year] doesn't make you much better. Their ceiling to me is a 2nd round out at the very best. A playoff team to be sure, but definitely not a contender.

Lol, every team has ups and downs... did the Knicks shoot lights out early in the year? Yes... did they come crashing down to earth and shoot horrible for a 40 game stretch? Yes... it all evens out.

Knicks won 54 games in a year where A LOT went wrong... every single starter missed at least 15+ games... name another team that had that happen to them and still won 50+ games?

Not to mention they were without Shump pretty much all year, and Kmart was a very late addition.

People forget NY had to literally run a lineup of Kurt Thomas, Copeland, White, JR & Prigs out there with all the injuries they had for a stretch.

We got rid of a lot of old dead weight this year.

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 11:21 AM
I can't wait for knicks fans to find out what bargnani is really like.

My rankings aside, I don't regard the knicks very highly this season. I felt that their team last year's win total had a lot to do with their early season 3 point shooting, and when that dried up, the team wasn't the same. I think it's a bad strategy to build a team around 3-point shooting, especially with so many of them coming from JR "I never saw a shot I didn't like" Smith and expect to win on a consistent basis. Adding a low efficiency shooter in MWP, and Bargnani [I'll let him off on criticism for now cuz he'll be getting plenty in the NY press next year] doesn't make you much better. Their ceiling to me is a 2nd round out at the very best. A playoff team to be sure, but definitely not a contender.

How can you be so sure that the Bargnani from the last 2 seasons in Toronto will show up in NY. No one wants to feel the wrath of the NY media....so I doubt Bargs will come here to play lazy. I think he will take the opportunity to resurrect his career.

And you are correct about the 3pt shooting, but a lot went wrong last year with injuries and we still got to 54 games (in a weak East, I will admit that). Imagine if Shump stays healthy the whole season, and Stat can play a majority of the season in a 20-25 min a night role.

We always seem to break down in the playoffs, but that is not the argument here. We are discussing the regular season and I think we have as good a shot as any team in the East to finish 2-5.

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 11:26 AM
IMO, the first two seeds are obvious.. Miami and Chicago. As much as Indy scares me in the playoffs, they won 49(50) games last season, and adding Granger back will get them to 55-57 wins tops. The Knicks won 54 and added Bargnani, so I expect them to be around 55-57 as well. The Nets are a big question mark because of chemistry and I think they will struggle out of the gate, on their way to 53-55 wins.

How I see it playing out is one of two ways. Miami is going to try to break the 72 win bulls record and will probably make it one of their goals this season. If they find that goal to be attainable and within reach, they will go for it and will get the one seed. If they stumble a little at the beginning of the season, I expect them to go for rest and save their energy for the postseason. I dont think Miami has a real legitimate shot at 72, so I got the Bulls as the one seed. To say the Bulls have gotten worse since 11-12 is foolish to say the least.

1. Bulls (Heat)
2. Heat (Bulls)
3. Knicks
4. Pacers
5. Nets
6. Cavs
7. Hawks
8. Raptors

I have the Heat winning the title next season, but with their health issues with Wade I really doubt they are gonna dominate the regular season in that capacity. I can see them winning 59-64 games next season. The East will beat up on each other so that 59 wins might earn them the 1 seed. Only other team I can see getting the 1 seed is Chicago if Rose is back to form this season. If he misses significant time because of a complication or something they will probably drop to 4 or 5.

mjm07
07-22-2013, 11:49 AM
1. Heat
2. Pacers
3. Bulls
4. Knicks
5. Nets

Sly Guy
07-22-2013, 11:55 AM
Lol, every team has ups and downs... did the Knicks shoot lights out early in the year? Yes... did they come crashing down to earth and shoot horrible for a 40 game stretch? Yes... it all evens out.

Knicks won 54 games in a year where A LOT went wrong... every single starter missed at least 15+ games... name another team that had that happen to them and still won 50+ games?

Not to mention they were without Shump pretty much all year, and Kmart was a very late addition.

People forget NY had to literally run a lineup of Kurt Thomas, Copeland, White, JR & Prigs out there with all the injuries they had for a stretch.

We got rid of a lot of old dead weight this year.

A fair assessment. I don't think the knicks have destroyed themselves for the future based on their cap situation or anything like that, I just am not a believer in their roster either. One of my good friends now lives in NYC, and I held the same conversation with him and had almost the exact same points before last season. If NYC isn't on fire from deep again during some stretch this year I don't see them equaling the win total of last year.



How can you be so sure that the Bargnani from the last 2 seasons in Toronto will show up in NY. No one wants to feel the wrath of the NY media....so I doubt Bargs will come here to play lazy. I think he will take the opportunity to resurrect his career.


because he's only had one good season in the nba, and that season came when he was clearly the #1 option on a very very bad team. He was force-fed shots, and although he looked ok with them, his team didn't perform at all. Worse, that sample size is smaller because he went down with injury about halfway through the season. Combine that with his lack of effort in every aspect of the game except offense, and the fact his game has evolved very little from his rookie season and I'd say he's not one to show much improvement. And last season, the first time he was asked to play as a role player coming off the bench, his shooting %'s dropped dramatically, he sulked, and was still equally as bad a rebounder/help defender as he's ever been.

Fortunately for you guys, he's only got 2 years left on his deal so even if he doesn't work out, he won't be killing you guys financially the way he did with us for years. And yes, I do understand the logic of the move you guys made for him, it's relatively low-risk high-reward, but I think the high-reward aspect has been grossly overrated. If he works out for you, great. But personally, I don't even see him in the NBA after this contract is up.....You guys are probably gonna run him out of town.

elledaddy
07-22-2013, 12:01 PM
I can't wait for knicks fans to find out what bargnani is really like.

My rankings aside, I don't regard the knicks very highly this season. I felt that their team last year's win total had a lot to do with their early season 3 point shooting, and when that dried up, the team wasn't the same. I think it's a bad strategy to build a team around 3-point shooting, especially with so many of them coming from JR "I never saw a shot I didn't like" Smith and expect to win on a consistent basis. Adding a low efficiency shooter in MWP, and Bargnani [I'll let him off on criticism for now cuz he'll be getting plenty in the NY press next year] doesn't make you much better. Their ceiling to me is a 2nd round out at the very best. A playoff team to be sure, but definitely not a contender.


Your choice is yours and I respect it. With that said, all the Knick hate or disrespect is both funny and stupid at the same time. I'll leave Miami out of this for obvious reasons but -

Chicago - Added/Got Back -- Rose,Dunleavy Jr,Tony Snell, Nazr Muhammad
- Lost Nate ,Belinelli, Rip ------ Clearly I see how they got better( Rose) BUT according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. HOW?

Ind - Added/Got back - Granger,Copeland,Soloman Hill,CJ Watson
-Lost Handsbrough,Sam Young,DJ Augustin----- I see how they got better but according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. How?

Nets - Added/Got back - Pierce,KG,AK47,Plumlee,Blatch,Terry,Livingston
- Lost Wallace,Humpries,Bogans,Brooks------ Clearly I see how they got better BUT according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. How?

Knicks - Added/got back - MWP,Bargnani,Hardaway Jr,JR Smith,Pablo, Stoudemire( basically if healthy)
- Lost - Kidd,Camby,Novak------- Ok so I SEE that they got better BUT according to most of you, this some how made the Knicks worst. HOW?



It's just funny that the Knicks are the ONLY one of the better teams that somehow get projected to be worst JUST BECAUSE other teams appeared to improve. Out west ppl see that Hou, GS, or the Clippers got better this off season BUT it's not at the expense of Memphis,SA or OKC. It's whatever though, thats why they play the games....

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 12:05 PM
A fair assessment. I don't think the knicks have destroyed themselves for the future based on their cap situation or anything like that, I just am not a believer in their roster either. One of my good friends now lives in NYC, and I held the same conversation with him and had almost the exact same points before last season. If NYC isn't on fire from deep again during some stretch this year I don't see them equaling the win total of last year.



because he's only had one good season in the nba, and that season came when he was clearly the #1 option on a very very bad team. He was force-fed shots, and although he looked ok with them, his team didn't perform at all. Worse, that sample size is smaller because he went down with injury about halfway through the season. Combine that with his lack of effort in every aspect of the game except offense, and the fact his game has evolved very little from his rookie season and I'd say he's not one to show much improvement. And last season, the first time he was asked to play as a role player coming off the bench, his shooting %'s dropped dramatically, he sulked, and was still equally as bad a rebounder/help defender as he's ever been.

Fortunately for you guys, he's only got 2 years left on his deal so even if he doesn't work out, he won't be killing you guys financially the way he did with us for years. And yes, I do understand the logic of the move you guys made for him, it's relatively low-risk high-reward, but I think the high-reward aspect has been grossly overrated. If he works out for you, great. But personally, I don't even see him in the NBA after this contract is up.....You guys are probably gonna run him out of town.

Fair enough! I just hate how people made it seem like we blew up our team to get him....it's idiotic at best...

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 12:07 PM
Your choice is yours and I respect it. With that said, all the Knick hate or disrespect is both funny and stupid at the same time. I'll leave Miami out of this for obvious reasons but -

Chicago - Added/Got Back -- Rose,Dunleavy Jr,Tony Snell, Nazr Muhammad
- Lost Nate ,Belinelli, Rip ------ Clearly I see how they got better( Rose) BUT according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. HOW?

Ind - Added/Got back - Granger,Copeland,Soloman Hill,CJ Watson
-Lost Handsbrough,Sam Young,DJ Augustin----- I see how they got better but according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. How?

Nets - Added/Got back - Pierce,KG,AK47,Plumlee,Blatch,Terry,Livingston
- Lost Wallace,Humpries,Bogans,Brooks------ Clearly I see how they got better BUT according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. How?

Knicks - Added/got back - MWP,Bargnani,Hardaway Jr,JR Smith,Pablo, Stoudemire( basically if healthy)
- Lost - Kidd,Camby,Novak------- Ok so I SEE that they got better BUT according to most of you, this some how made the Knicks worst. HOW?



It's just funny that the Knicks are the ONLY one of the better teams that somehow get projected to be worst JUST BECAUSE other teams appeared to improve. Out west ppl see that Hou, GS, or the Clippers got better this off season BUT it's not at the expense of Memphis,SA or OKC. It's whatever though, thats why they play the games....

Because it's the KNICKS silly! DUH :rolleyes:

Pacerlive
07-22-2013, 12:08 PM
Pacers are a good team, but people saying adding Granger will give them 8-10 more wins?Not sure Granger is that kind of player anymore, and with the East improving, it's going to be hard for 4-5 teams to win 55+ games.

Knicks added MWP & Bargs, but I don't think they can add much more wins with the way the East improved.

Bulls won 60 games when the east was weaker, and when they had a great bench with Asik & Korver. I'm not sure they can do that now. Especially with Rose not having played a single game in well over a year now.

MIA - 65
CHI, NY, IND, BK - should all be around 50-55 wins... it's a toss up after MIA really.

For Indiana I will explain why most people are hopeful that the addition of Granger + the bench equals 8 or so more wins.

As for Granger he will add something the Pacers sorely missed which was 3 point shooting. Its great to have ROY and West on the team but for the offense to thrive the Pacers need to spread the floor and Granger can do just that for a team that rank 22 in 3pt%.

For the bench the additon of CJ Watson and Copeland should also help. IT won't be great but certainly its an improvement over DJ Augustine and Tyler.

The last thing I would mention is that if Roy is healthy this year then he is a much more efficient player during the regular season. The Pacer offense will also be more efficent and for a team that had starters outscore the Miami Heat starters I like the fact that this bench can atleast provide something that DJ and Tyler coulnd't provide.

Accumalitvely I think that equals 8 wins.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 12:10 PM
For those who are putting Bulls and the Pacers in the top 3 dont understand how playoff brackets work. Division winners get the top spots then it goes by record. Bulls or Pacers would win the division, the other would be a 4 spot (or 5 depending on Knicks/Nets record).

nycericanguy
07-22-2013, 12:10 PM
A fair assessment. I don't think the knicks have destroyed themselves for the future based on their cap situation or anything like that, I just am not a believer in their roster either. One of my good friends now lives in NYC, and I held the same conversation with him and had almost the exact same points before last season. If NYC isn't on fire from deep again during some stretch this year I don't see them equaling the win total of last year.


I mean even the CHA Bobcats got hot early last year. The idea that NY is the only team that needs to get hot to put together wins is just silly. Of course they'll need to catch fire at times... all teams do.

But if you win 54 games despite a ton of injuries that's alot more than just a hot streak.

We replaced Camby, Kidd, Novak & Copeland with MWP, Bargs, & Hardaway. That's a big upgrade on talent, and on guys that can actually stay on the court.

Then you add in Shump & Kmart all year...

This is not a team that needs to catch fire to win games... Down the stretch NY can throw a crazy defensive lineup of

Chandler
Melo
MWP
Shump
Prigs

That's 4 very good defenders.

Am I sold that they can beat MIA? Probably not... but they are positioned to be better than last year unless something drastic happens.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 12:15 PM
I love how everyone just has knicks 5th lol. In reality we can finish anywhere between 2-5. The nets have a load of talent but who knows how they will gel u have to many guy who need the ball in there hands a center who needs lot of touches. A first year coach. They remind me of the laker team with malone n payton only they dont have kobe and shaq

I dont disagree with you but the general consensus seems to be that the Knicks over achieved last year. They really werent in the series against the Pacers and still rely heavily on their jump shooting.

If Felton can stay healthy I think they will be better than the Nets because he was the catalyst that got them off to their great start. We shall see!

BleedingGreen9
07-22-2013, 12:16 PM
I love the hate that the Nets generate. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pierce had three triple doubles last year, most in 10 years; back to back 40 and 35 point games. Towards the end of the season because of the heavy minutes after the Rondo injury he had a bad playoff series vs. Knicks. Garnett led the NBA playoffs in rebounding at 13.7 per game. Had six games of 20 and 10. He was also an all star last year. Like Pierce the heavy minutes after Rondo went down took its toll on him. All of a sudden these guys are ready to retire and will get plagued by all kind of injuries even though the Nets are now deep enough to limit their minutes as they please.

The hate and jealousy that Prokhorov is generating is hilarious

x2

Chronz
07-22-2013, 12:20 PM
Huge potential for injuries and player retirement.

Cmon man, on a statistical level, you know they are monsters.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 12:26 PM
For Indiana I will explain why most people are hopeful that the addition of Granger + the bench equals 8 or so more wins.

As for Granger he will add something the Pacers sorely missed which was 3 point shooting. Its great to have ROY and West on the team but for the offense to thrive the Pacers need to spread the floor and Granger can do just that for a team that rank 22 in 3pt%.

For the bench the additon of CJ Watson and Copeland should also help. IT won't be great but certainly its an improvement over DJ Augustine and Tyler.

The last thing I would mention is that if Roy is healthy this year then he is a much more efficient player during the regular season. The Pacer offense will also be more efficent and for a team that had starters outscore the Miami Heat starters I like the fact that this bench can atleast provide something that DJ and Tyler coulnd't provide.

Accumalitvely I think that equals 8 wins.

Granger is now 30 with bad knees. With the emergence of George you will see diminished stats from Granger as he will not get the ball as much. Copeland is a great grab and it will be interesting to see how they incorporate him.

Seeing as the Bulls were only a few games off the Pacers most of the season (until that bad beginning of March) and the head to head match up was really close (especially the non call on Hibbert against Deng in their first matchup could have had the Bulls winning the regular season head to head) its not far fetched to believe that Chicago, with a healthy Rose, can take the division back from Indiana which would automatically push Indiana to a 4 spot at best.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-22-2013, 12:27 PM
Its not very smart to put Chicago over Miami even in the regular season.

Miami now has played together for 3 years and is coming off a 66 win season.

Rose also may not be the same Rose, but even if he is, its just not a good bet to put them above Miami.

Miami has a better supporting cast than they did before and has gained 3 years of experience and improved chemistry. They are likely to win well over 60 games again. This is a team that has found their identity and has a ton of confidence as a TEAM.

I have them winning at least 64 games.

Bulls may be the next best regular season team and finish within 5 games, but its just a bad bet to say they will finish with a better record at this point in time. This isn't 3 years ago. Miami has gotten better and Chicago will have to find themselves again with Rose returning.

29$JerZ
07-22-2013, 12:36 PM
Miami
Chicago
Pacers
Knicks
Brooklyn
Atlanta
Detroit
Washington

The East is so bad after Top 5.
Orlando/Toronto/Milwaukee/Charlotte/Philly/Cleveland/Boston are probably going to fill out 8 of the worst 10 teams next season.

NYSpirit1
07-22-2013, 12:53 PM
I love all the Knicks are #5 seed talk after just winning 54 games and finishing #2.

NYSpirit1
07-22-2013, 12:54 PM
Miami
New York
Chicago
Indiana
Brooklyn

LOL @ people not factoring in Rose coming off an injury, Granger ruining the Pacers chemistry and Garnett/Pierce having Steve Nash syndrome and sucking.

Guppyfighter
07-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Man. All these Knick fans are in for a big surprise. I can see them being a 4th or 5th seed. Pacers played way below their pythag, so they should be able to get the second seed no problem when regression hits in that area. Bulls are getting Rose back and they were very bad on offense. So, third seed is in reach.

No way the Knicks are better than the Pacers and Bulls.

Guppyfighter
07-22-2013, 01:00 PM
Your choice is yours and I respect it. With that said, all the Knick hate or disrespect is both funny and stupid at the same time. I'll leave Miami out of this for obvious reasons but -

Chicago - Added/Got Back -- Rose,Dunleavy Jr,Tony Snell, Nazr Muhammad
- Lost Nate ,Belinelli, Rip ------ Clearly I see how they got better( Rose) BUT according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. HOW?

Ind - Added/Got back - Granger,Copeland,Soloman Hill,CJ Watson
-Lost Handsbrough,Sam Young,DJ Augustin----- I see how they got better but according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. How?

Nets - Added/Got back - Pierce,KG,AK47,Plumlee,Blatch,Terry,Livingston
- Lost Wallace,Humpries,Bogans,Brooks------ Clearly I see how they got better BUT according to most of you, this made the Knicks worst. How?

Knicks - Added/got back - MWP,Bargnani,Hardaway Jr,JR Smith,Pablo, Stoudemire( basically if healthy)
- Lost - Kidd,Camby,Novak------- Ok so I SEE that they got better BUT according to most of you, this some how made the Knicks worst. HOW?



It's just funny that the Knicks are the ONLY one of the better teams that somehow get projected to be worst JUST BECAUSE other teams appeared to improve. Out west ppl see that Hou, GS, or the Clippers got better this off season BUT it's not at the expense of Memphis,SA or OKC. It's whatever though, thats why they play the games....


Adding Bargs makes you worse. No ifs about it.

Rockice_8
07-22-2013, 01:09 PM
I mean even the CHA Bobcats got hot early last year. The idea that NY is the only team that needs to get hot to put together wins is just silly. Of course they'll need to catch fire at times... all teams do.

But if you win 54 games despite a ton of injuries that's alot more than just a hot streak.

We replaced Camby, Kidd, Novak & Copeland with MWP, Bargs, & Hardaway. That's a big upgrade on talent, and on guys that can actually stay on the court.

Then you add in Shump & Kmart all year...

This is not a team that needs to catch fire to win games... Down the stretch NY can throw a crazy defensive lineup of

Chandler
Melo
MWP
Shump
Prigs

That's 4 very good defenders.

Am I sold that they can beat MIA? Probably not... but they are positioned to be better than last year unless something drastic happens.

Well Kidd faded down the stretch but to say he's not a big loss is selling him way short. There was a reason the Knicks went from crap to the #2 seed and Kidd was a huge part of that. Just his presence and IQ alone helped. Your calling Bargs a floor spacer yet lost one of the best 3pt shooters in the league so while Bargs may have a bit more of an expanded offensive game Novak was by far the better 3pt shooter. Hardaway is a late 1st rookie in a crap draft expecting him to be a big contributor is not worthy of even mentioning. Copeland played really well when given the opportunity so don't get why your blowing him off as no big deal. You just swapped his offense for a guy with more defense. I don't see MWP as some massive upgrade. The Knicks retooled their bench it remains to be seen if it's actually improved.

It's possible you think the Knicks got better but so does every other team. They all can't be better so someone is in for a slip up. Just cause people think it's the Knicks doesn't mean they are right or wrong it's just an opinion. There can't be 5 teams with 55 wins. It's not like the Knicsk were miles better than INDY/BK/CHI.

NYSpirit1
07-22-2013, 01:10 PM
How?!? This guy averaged 20 two years ago and fits perfectly next to Melo.

This forum. Wow.

Pacerlive
07-22-2013, 01:10 PM
Granger is now 30 with bad knees. With the emergence of George you will see diminished stats from Granger as he will not get the ball as much. Copeland is a great grab and it will be interesting to see how they incorporate him.

Seeing as the Bulls were only a few games off the Pacers most of the season (until that bad beginning of March) and the head to head match up was really close (especially the non call on Hibbert against Deng in their first matchup could have had the Bulls winning the regular season head to head) its not far fetched to believe that Chicago, with a healthy Rose, can take the division back from Indiana which would automatically push Indiana to a 4 spot at best.

I think Chicago has a shot at the division for sure but last year was an up and down season for the Pacers as well. Hibbert was hurt most of the regular season with a wrist injury and Paul George had some early growing pains to start out the year.

The question is do you think the Bulls took a step back outside of Rose return? To me the wildcard will be Jimmy Butler and if he can keep up his progression but I liked Belli and Rip over Dunleavy who is a sieve on defense.

Hopefully Rose will get healthy both mentally and physically because I would hate for him not to return to the player he was.

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 01:11 PM
Adding Bargs makes you worse. No ifs about it.

That's soley your opinion. No if's about THAT.

And mark my words Indy won't sniff a 2 seed....

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 01:13 PM
Well Kidd faded down the stretch but to say he's not a big loss is selling him way short. There was a reason the Knicks went from crap to the #2 seed and Kidd was a huge part of that. Just his presence and IQ alone helped. Your calling Bargs a floor spacer yet lost one of the best 3pt shooters in the league so while Bargs may have a bit more of an expanded offensive game Novak was by far the better 3pt shooter. Hardaway is a late 1st rookie in a crap draft expecting him to be a big contributor is not worthy of even mentioning. Copeland played really well when given the opportunity so don't get why your blowing him off as no big deal. You just swapped his offense for a guy with more defense. I don't see MWP as some massive upgrade. The Knicks retooled their bench it remains to be seen if it's actually improved.

It's possible you think the Knicks got better but so does every other team. They all can't be better so someone is in for a slip up. Just cause people think it's the Knicks doesn't mean they are right or wrong it's just an opinion. There can't be 5 teams with 55 wins. It's not like the Knicsk were miles better than INDY/BK/CHI.

Player with more expanded offensive game > Better 3pt shooter who is useless come playoff time.

TestedWest
07-22-2013, 01:17 PM
This thread is comical. What makes some of you think the Bulls will even sniff a top seed next year?! I can't begin to name all the factors that go into y they will only be at best a 5th seed this year...

D-Leethal
07-22-2013, 01:20 PM
Adding Bargs makes you worse. No ifs about it.

What formula did you use to derive that opinion?

Pacerlive
07-22-2013, 01:21 PM
That's soley your opinion. No if's about THAT.

And mark my words Indy won't sniff a 2 seed....

Bargs isn't that great of an addition at all but if the Knicks stay healthy then I think they are a top 5 team. That though is a big IF since both Bargs and Tyson have had health concerns and I am not sure I would lean heavily on a big man with a bulging disc in his neck.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 01:21 PM
I think Chicago has a shot at the division for sure but last year was an up and down season for the Pacers as well. Hibbert was hurt most of the regular season with a wrist injury and Paul George had some early growing pains to start out the year.

The question is do you think the Bulls took a step back outside of Rose return? To me the wildcard will be Jimmy Butler and if he can keep up his progression but I liked Belli and Rip over Dunleavy who is a sieve on defense.

Hopefully Rose will get healthy both mentally and physically because I would hate for him not to return to the player he was.

Fair point about the up and down season for Indiana as well.

I think the Bulls only got better. Having Butler start is an upgrade from Rip or Bogans. Boozer is assuming this year is an audition for him to get signed by another team so you will see a full out effort by him (not to mention that when the Bulls needed him last year he had some very solid performances - Month of January sticks out in my mind more than anything else). Kirk wont stay healthy but its nice that he can play the one or two and if Teague can translate any of his game from the Summer League into the regular season you actually have a rather deep bench (not saying Teague is an added value player on the bench but he gives them more options as to how/when to play Kirk).

D-Leethal
07-22-2013, 01:22 PM
Well Kidd faded down the stretch but to say he's not a big loss is selling him way short. There was a reason the Knicks went from crap to the #2 seed and Kidd was a huge part of that. Just his presence and IQ alone helped. Your calling Bargs a floor spacer yet lost one of the best 3pt shooters in the league so while Bargs may have a bit more of an expanded offensive game Novak was by far the better 3pt shooter. Hardaway is a late 1st rookie in a crap draft expecting him to be a big contributor is not worthy of even mentioning. Copeland played really well when given the opportunity so don't get why your blowing him off as no big deal. You just swapped his offense for a guy with more defense. I don't see MWP as some massive upgrade. The Knicks retooled their bench it remains to be seen if it's actually improved.

It's possible you think the Knicks got better but so does every other team. They all can't be better so someone is in for a slip up. Just cause people think it's the Knicks doesn't mean they are right or wrong it's just an opinion. There can't be 5 teams with 55 wins. It's not like the Knicsk were miles better than INDY/BK/CHI.

Teams would throw guards on Novak and he wouldn't get a shot off. Jason Terry guarded him in the playoffs and he couldn't get a shot off. Thats not really a stretch 4 if your not being defended by opposing bigs. The main point of stretch 4 is to bring bigs out of the paint. Novak didn't provide that. Bargs will.

Prigs can pretty much bring everything Kidd brought for us, but better.

Shmontaine
07-22-2013, 01:23 PM
I think Chicago has a shot at the division for sure but last year was an up and down season for the Pacers as well. Hibbert was hurt most of the regular season with a wrist injury and Paul George had some early growing pains to start out the year.

The question is do you think the Bulls took a step back outside of Rose return? To me the wildcard will be Jimmy Butler and if he can keep up his progression but I liked Belli and Rip over Dunleavy who is a sieve on defense.

Hopefully Rose will get healthy both mentally and physically because I would hate for him not to return to the player he was.

i have to disagree with the bolded. MDJ is an upgrade over marco in every way except ball handling. and rip could never stay healthy. plus, MDJ will be able spell deng this year, which neither marco nor rip could do.

TestedWest
07-22-2013, 01:24 PM
Adding Bargs makes you worse. No ifs about it.

I don't think Bargs individually makes them worse but it will be a collective effort of crappy players like Bargs, MWP, and JR Smith (he just got paid and is injured) that will hurt the knicks chances at a top 5 seed mightily...

D-Leethal
07-22-2013, 01:25 PM
I don't think Bargs individually makes them worse but it will be a collective effort of crappy players like Bargs, MWP, and JR Smith (he just got paid and is injured) that will hurt the knicks chances at a top 5 seed mightily...

Only on the Knicks will the 6MOY be considered a 'crappy player'.

MonroeFAN
07-22-2013, 01:25 PM
I just think the rest of the east got signicantly better, and the Knicks had more lateral movement then anything (losing key veterans, trading for the guy from perfect strangers, etc...)

I don't think people are being unfair with you guys, but absolutely anything can happen. Players like MWP are insignificant 10-12th guys at this point. And JR is JR... I wouldn't expect many people to be fans of his.

TestedWest
07-22-2013, 01:32 PM
Only on the Knicks will the 6MOY be considered a 'crappy player'.

I gave an explanation, he was clearly playing for NY when he signed that 2 year contract worth like 4 million or whatever. Now that he's been paid we will all see a huge drop in numbers add the injury on top of that. I just don't see the Knicks doing much with their current cast of characters.

lamzoka
07-22-2013, 01:45 PM
1- Heat
2- Knicks
3- Nets
4- Pacers
5- Bulls
6- Cavs
7- Pistons
8- Wizards

boboo73
07-22-2013, 01:51 PM
This thread is comical. What makes some of you think the Bulls will even sniff a top seed next year?! I can't begin to name all the factors that go into y they will only be at best a 5th seed this year...

Probably because they had the best record in the NBA two out of the last 3 years. Thibs has shown that no matter who is on his bench that he can get them to play at a higher level. So to me it is funnier that you think they are "at best" a 5 seed.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 01:53 PM
1- Heat
2- Knicks
3- Nets
4- Pacers
5- Bulls
6- Cavs
7- Pistons
8- Wizards

Knicks and Nets cant both be in the Top 3. Bracketing works where the division winner gets a top seed then it goes by record after that. So the top 3 in no particular order would be:
Heat
Bulls/Pacers
Knicks/Nets

lamzoka
07-22-2013, 02:02 PM
Knicks and Nets cant both be in the Top 3. Bracketing works where the division winner gets a top seed then it goes by record after that. So the top 3 in no particular order would be:
Heat
Bulls/Pacers
Knicks/Nets

WRONG!!!

Top 4 teams are the 3 Divisions Winners Plus the team in the conference with the best record.

they are seeded 1-4 by their records.

A division winner is guaranteed homecourt advantage, NOT top 3 seed

elledaddy
07-22-2013, 02:07 PM
Well Kidd faded down the stretch but to say he's not a big loss is selling him way short. There was a reason the Knicks went from crap to the #2 seed and Kidd was a huge part of that. Just his presence and IQ alone helped. Your calling Bargs a floor spacer yet lost one of the best 3pt shooters in the league so while Bargs may have a bit more of an expanded offensive game Novak was by far the better 3pt shooter. Hardaway is a late 1st rookie in a crap draft expecting him to be a big contributor is not worthy of even mentioning. Copeland played really well when given the opportunity so don't get why your blowing him off as no big deal. You just swapped his offense for a guy with more defense. I don't see MWP as some massive upgrade. The Knicks retooled their bench it remains to be seen if it's actually improved.

It's possible you think the Knicks got better but so does every other team. They all can't be better so someone is in for a slip up. Just cause people think it's the Knicks doesn't mean they are right or wrong it's just an opinion. There can't be 5 teams with 55 wins. It's not like the Knicsk were miles better than INDY/BK/CHI.


2013 NBA STANDINGS
OKC - 60 WINS 22 LOSSES
SAS- 58 WINS 24 LOSSES
DEN- 57 WINS 25 LOSSES
LAC- 56 WINS 26 LOSSES
MEM- 56 WINS 26 LOSSES

"There cant be 5 teams with 55 wins"------------ Guess you right, all these teams had more than 55 wins

boboo73
07-22-2013, 02:09 PM
I stand corrected.

With that being said Knicks in the 2 spot is just not happening. And Knicks Nets being 2/3 is even more far fetched.

Hawkeye15
07-22-2013, 02:11 PM
2013 NBA STANDINGS
OKC - 60 WINS 22 LOSSES
SAS- 58 WINS 24 LOSSES
DEN- 57 WINS 25 LOSSES
LAC- 56 WINS 26 LOSSES
MEM- 56 WINS 26 LOSSES

"There cant be 5 teams with 55 wins"------------ Guess you right, all these teams had more than 55 wins

In the east, there won't be, but that is probably obvious to you.

KnickaBocka.44
07-22-2013, 02:12 PM
I just think the rest of the east got signicantly better, and the Knicks had more lateral movement then anything (losing key veterans, trading for the guy from perfect strangers, etc...)

I don't think people are being unfair with you guys, but absolutely anything can happen. Players like MWP are insignificant 10-12th guys at this point. And JR is JR... I wouldn't expect many people to be fans of his.

He had the highest +/- on the Lakers last year. I seriously can't believe you just said that.

BHF
07-22-2013, 02:22 PM
raptors have

Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Amir
JVal

and most of you don't have them in the playoffs some of you have them 12th in the east lol raptors are better than Pistons and Wizards

D-Leethal
07-22-2013, 02:26 PM
In the east, there won't be, but that is probably obvious to you.

I think its possible to see 5 teams with 52-55 wins this year, with the 6 seed being a major drop off to 45 wins or so.

East is so top heavy that I could see 5 teams beating up on all the crappy bottom feeding East teams en route to 55 wins. I think at the very least, we will see 5 teams with 50+ wins this season in the East.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 02:26 PM
raptors have

Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Amir
JVal

and most of you don't have them in the playoffs some of you have them 12th in the east lol raptors are better than Pistons and Wizards

I do think they could get into the playoffs. They are better than the Pistons but I dont know if they are better than the Wizards. Wizards were a pretty solid team once Wall came back from injury and shook off the rust. With a healthy Nene, the emergence of Beal, and Wall they are a pretty good team.

JVal is a monster so I like their chances.

Rockice_8
07-22-2013, 02:29 PM
2013 NBA STANDINGS
OKC - 60 WINS 22 LOSSES
SAS- 58 WINS 24 LOSSES
DEN- 57 WINS 25 LOSSES
LAC- 56 WINS 26 LOSSES
MEM- 56 WINS 26 LOSSES

"There cant be 5 teams with 55 wins"------------ Guess you right, all these teams had more than 55 wins

I stand corrected. Still don't see it happening though.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 02:30 PM
Heat
Bulls
Knicks
Pacers
Nets
Washington
Toronto
Detroit

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 02:33 PM
I gave an explanation, he was clearly playing for NY when he signed that 2 year contract worth like 4 million or whatever. Now that he's been paid we will all see a huge drop in numbers add the injury on top of that. I just don't see the Knicks doing much with their current cast of characters.

Tell us what else you see in your crystal ball? Care to share the powerball number for the next drawing?

Chronz
07-22-2013, 02:34 PM
I think its possible to see 5 teams with 52-55 wins this year, with the 6 seed being a major drop off to 45 wins or so.

East is so top heavy that I could see 5 teams beating up on all the crappy bottom feeding East teams en route to 55 wins. I think at the very least, we will see 5 teams with 50+ wins this season in the East.


Someone should do a league wide count because I dont think its possible for 5 teams of that caliber on both sides, unless you're saying this is the year the East finally catches up .

elledaddy
07-22-2013, 02:50 PM
In the east, there won't be, but that is probably obvious to you.


Maybe not 5 in the East BUT NYK will be one of them that do( 50-55). The Knicks was one of only 3 teams in the EAST to have a winning record vs the MIGHTY WEST. They went 17-13 and out of the 13 losses to the WEST, Melo didnt even play in 6 of those games. The Knicks are gonna be really really good again. It's funny that posters on here are quick to say " when Rose and Granger come back" or " If the Nets can stay healthy" nonsense but the Knicks had more injuries the all those teams. The Knicks starting five was supposed to be -----
Felton - missed 14 games
Shump -missed 37 games
Melo - missed 15 games
Stat - missed 53 games
Chandler - missed 16 games

All that and they still won 54 games. But some how, the Knicks are the team that is gonna slip up. Smh, the Knicks are gonna suprise EVERYBODY again including some of these fake a##,self hating Knicks fan

JordansBulls
07-22-2013, 02:58 PM
Its not very smart to put Chicago over Miami even in the regular season.

Miami now has played together for 3 years and is coming off a 66 win season.

Rose also may not be the same Rose, but even if he is, its just not a good bet to put them above Miami.

Miami has a better supporting cast than they did before and has gained 3 years of experience and improved chemistry. They are likely to win well over 60 games again. This is a team that has found their identity and has a ton of confidence as a TEAM.

I have them winning at least 64 games.

Bulls may be the next best regular season team and finish within 5 games, but its just a bad bet to say they will finish with a better record at this point in time. This isn't 3 years ago. Miami has gotten better and Chicago will have to find themselves again with Rose returning.

How is it not smart? When the Lakers had been to the finals 3 years in a row, the next season they slipped and went to the 2nd seed when they were the 1 seed 3 years in a row.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Maybe not 5 in the East BUT NYK will be one of them that do( 50-55). The Knicks was one of only 3 teams in the EAST to have a winning record vs the MIGHTY WEST. They went 17-13 and out of the 13 losses to the WEST, Melo didnt even play in 6 of those games. The Knicks are gonna be really really good again. It's funny that posters on here are quick to say " when Rose and Granger come back" or " If the Nets can stay healthy" nonsense but the Knicks had more injuries the all those teams. The Knicks starting five was supposed to be -----
Felton - missed 14 games
Shump -missed 37 games
Melo - missed 15 games
Stat - missed 53 games
Chandler - missed 16 games

All that and they still won 54 games. But some how, the Knicks are the team that is gonna slip up. Smh, the Knicks are gonna suprise EVERYBODY again including some of these fake a##,self hating Knicks fan

Bulls starters missed more games than any other team in the league. They missed 180 games combined.

tredigs
07-22-2013, 03:08 PM
How is it not smart? When the Lakers had been to the finals 3 years in a row, the next season they slipped and went to the 2nd seed when they were the 1 seed 3 years in a row.

The only year the Lakers were the 1 seed or one 60+ games was the year they had Glen Rice in '00. There's nothing to indicate to me that Miami got 6+ games worse. I see them still winning 60+ and taking the conference.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 03:15 PM
The only year the Lakers were the 1 seed or one 60+ games was the year they had Glen Rice in '00. There's nothing to indicate to me that Miami got 6+ games worse. I see them still winning 60+ and taking the conference.

Miami can definitely be several games worse. There were at least 4 games during that 27 game win streak where, if not going for the streak, probably would have just walked away with the L if the streak were not on the line. Playing LBJ heavier minutes to come back from 20 point deficits against sub par teams wont happen when there isnt a chance at history. They very easily could be a 60 win team instead of a 66 win team again. I am not saying it will or will not happen but that streak pushed them to win more games that they would have lost.

FYL_McVeezy
07-22-2013, 03:51 PM
Bulls starters missed more games than any other team in the league. They missed 180 games combined.

So? Exactly what does this mean? They were a potential top 2 seed that fell to 5 due to injuries..

The poster you were responding to said that because look at all the injuries the Knicks had to deal with and they STILL clinched the 2 seed.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 04:04 PM
So? Exactly what does this mean? They were a potential top 2 seed that fell to 5 due to injuries..

The poster you were responding to said that because look at all the injuries the Knicks had to deal with and they STILL clinched the 2 seed.

"but the Knicks had more injuries the all those teams." My point was that his quoted point was inaccurate. The Bulls had more injuries than the Knicks. There is no debating that.

Shmontaine
07-22-2013, 04:14 PM
i'm just curious what the point of this thread is... a month into the season, everyone will 'pish posh' whatever the current rankings happen to be and it will become why 'rankings don't matter, it's all about the playoffs'...

also, bulls were 5th last year, and somehow getting drose back means absolutely no improvement in the east.

1. who cares
2. probably doesn't matter
3. doesn't matter
4. like a 4 seed is gonna scare anyone
5. above average, not good enough to make a difference
6. good enough to not be able to tank
7. probably should be tanking
8. too dumb to not realize they should've been tanking

MonroeFAN
07-22-2013, 04:14 PM
He had the highest +/- on the Lakers last year. I seriously can't believe you just said that.

the guy averaged 6 PPG on 25 % shooting in the playoffs. This is why people don't take the Knicks seriously. You guys focus on players who excel in categories that aren't conducive to winning basketball games.

boboo73
07-22-2013, 04:32 PM
i'm just curious what the point of this thread is... a month into the season, everyone will 'pish posh' whatever the current rankings happen to be and it will become why 'rankings don't matter, it's all about the playoffs'...

also, bulls were 5th last year, and somehow getting drose back means absolutely no improvement in the east.

1. who cares
2. probably doesn't matter
3. doesn't matter
4. like a 4 seed is gonna scare anyone
5. above average, not good enough to make a difference
6. good enough to not be able to tank
7. probably should be tanking
8. too dumb to not realize they should've been tanking

Haha

ThePooH_1_
07-22-2013, 04:33 PM
Bulls/Heat
Heat/Bulls
Pacers
Nets
Knicks

...

tredigs
07-22-2013, 04:39 PM
Someone should do a league wide count because I dont think its possible for 5 teams of that caliber on both sides, unless you're saying this is the year the East finally catches up .

I could see the top 5 in the East all winning 50+, though to me it will be toughest for NY. After that, wouldn't surprise me a bit to see 42-40, 40-42 and 37-45 round out the Eastern slots. In the west, all the playoff teams will be pushing 50+ wins, which I see off-set by 3+ tanking and another 4+ just plain weak teams.

elledaddy
07-22-2013, 04:43 PM
I could see the top 5 in the East all winning 50+, though to me it will be toughest for NY. After that, wouldn't surprise me a bit to see 42-40, 40-42 and 37-45 round out the Eastern slots. In the west, all the playoff teams will be pushing 50+ wins, which I see off-set by 3+ tanking and another 4+ just plain weak teams.




Why do you feel that way? Real question

Rockice_8
07-22-2013, 04:58 PM
Why do you feel that way? Real question

Well you've seen what people think of Bargnani and MWP so people think your bench is still average. JR and Melo are coming off career years so maybe one of them falls back to reality a bit. Most likely JR (injury will slow him early before he can get his legs).

I'm not a fan of your interior D, no post threat on offense and your probably going to be a bad rebounding team again so while the Knicks were plagued with many of those things last year they found a way to overcome their weaknesses.

Not saying they won't again but the Knicks weaknesses are a little more clearer then say the rest of the big 5. I don't see glaring weaknesses on any other team like the Knicks as the other teams have improved theirs better then the Knicks have.

They'll still be in the mix come the end of the year and probably win right around 50 games again but from looking at all the other posters responses it seems like they think the other teams got better then the Knicks have.

I mean the top 4-5 teams were fairly close last season so one team adding (KG/PP/Terry) and the other adding an MVP and the other getting a former allstar and revamping their bench added more than Bargs and MWP.

Edit: I actually ranked mine like this
MIA
CHI
BK
NYK
IND

I'm actually more down on the Pacers (for regular season rankings) then I am the Knicks. Just think they lucked out with their playoffs schedule before they saw MIA and they just matched up well enough to test them. I think now with CHI getting back and the revamped BK team the Pacers size is not something they can just push teams around with anymore.

nycericanguy
07-22-2013, 05:14 PM
the guy averaged 6 PPG on 25 % shooting in the playoffs. This is why people don't take the Knicks seriously. You guys focus on players who excel in categories that aren't conducive to winning basketball games.

sample size... 4 games!

He averaged over 12 & 5 last year and started pretty much all year on a Lakers team that won 45 games out west despite a ton of issues all around that team.

Now he comes to NY and you're saying he's a 12th man? Really? :rolleyes:

I mean no ones expecting him to be a star in NY, but he's not a 12th man. He still has game left. It's not like he's 38 years old.

elledaddy
07-22-2013, 06:08 PM
Well you've seen what people think of Bargnani and MWP so people think your bench is still average. JR and Melo are coming off career years so maybe one of them falls back to reality a bit. Most likely JR (injury will slow him early before he can get his legs).

I'm not a fan of your interior D, no post threat on offense and your probably going to be a bad rebounding team again so while the Knicks were plagued with many of those things last year they found a way to overcome their weaknesses.

Not saying they won't again but the Knicks weaknesses are a little more clearer then say the rest of the big 5. I don't see glaring weaknesses on any other team like the Knicks as the other teams have improved theirs better then the Knicks have.

They'll still be in the mix come the end of the year and probably win right around 50 games again but from looking at all the other posters responses it seems like they think the other teams got better then the Knicks have.

I mean the top 4-5 teams were fairly close last season so one team adding (KG/PP/Terry) and the other adding an MVP and the other getting a former allstar and revamping their bench added more than Bargs and MWP.

Edit: I actually ranked mine like this
MIA
CHI
BK
NYK
IND

I'm actually more down on the Pacers (for regular season rankings) then I am the Knicks. Just think they lucked out with their playoffs schedule before they saw MIA and they just matched up well enough to test them. I think now with CHI getting back and the revamped BK team the Pacers size is not something they can just push teams around with anymore.


I like the way you post but I have to disagree with you here. It kind of sound like you're drinking the kool aid a little.
- You dont like our interior D...... not much here, just not ur cup of tea.
- No post threat on O....... When healthy we get just as many points out of the post as Chi,Ind & Miami. The Nets did get and will get more again this coming year.
- Bad Rebounding........ We are not as bad as ppl make it out to be.
-We have a fairly good defensive rebounding %( we rebound our opp's misses 14th best in the NBA).
-We werent really hurt by opp's offensive rebounding considering we allowed the 2nd fewest shots( meaning 2nd BEST) in the NBA while taking the the 15th most shots
- As far as Own rebounds vs Opp's rebounds, we were -1. Thats the BIG DIFFERENCE we were being hurt by? Our opp's got 1 more rebound per game than us. We avg 40.6 rebs while allowing 41.6. What's even more funny bout that is the 2 teams DIRECTLY below us in rebounds was SA and Mia. Just talking here.


I just cant get with the notion, that others teams got better on paper so the Knicks got worst on the court. The crap for some reason dont apply to any other team. Only 2 teams in the East got 50+ wins last year but this yr it's gonna jump to 4 with the Knicks not being one of them?

Cant wait

D-Leethal
07-22-2013, 06:21 PM
Someone should do a league wide count because I dont think its possible for 5 teams of that caliber on both sides, unless you're saying this is the year the East finally catches up .

I don't think it necessarily means the East is catching up, I think its a product of having a very lopsided conference with a huge gap in the middle. I think an East team can have 55-60 wins and be significantly worse than a West team with 50-52.

WadeKobe
07-22-2013, 06:23 PM
1) Miami
2) Chicago
3) Atlanta
4) Indiana
5) Toronto
6) Detroit
7) Brooklyn
8) Milwaukee

My God, the East is awful.

Kingz4L
07-22-2013, 06:35 PM
1. Heat 61-21
2. Bulls 57-25
3. Nets 56-26
4. Pacers 56-26
5. Knicks 52-30
6. Cavaliers 45-37
7. Pistons 43-39
8. Wizards 41-41

elledaddy
07-22-2013, 06:38 PM
1. Heat 61-21
2. Bulls 57-25
3. Nets 56-26
4. Pacers 56-26
5. Knicks 52-30
6. Cavaliers 45-37
7. Pistons 43-39
8. Wizards 41-41

Fair. I would swap Det with Atlanta though

Chronz
07-22-2013, 06:51 PM
I don't think it necessarily means the East is catching up, I think its a product of having a very lopsided conference with a huge gap in the middle. I think an East team can have 55-60 wins and be significantly worse than a West team with 50-52.

Yea but doesn't this whole thing sound like it would be a historical first? I mean with regards to the middle class being so thin.

Kingz4L
07-22-2013, 07:21 PM
Fair. I would swap Det with Atlanta though

I thought about putting ATL over WIZ but I believe Wizards are a playoff team when healthy. Pistons in my opinion are in for sure if healthy (Billups will provide that leadership that will result in lots of wins for this team).

KnickaBocka.44
07-22-2013, 07:21 PM
the guy averaged 6 PPG on 25 % shooting in the playoffs. This is why people don't take the Knicks seriously. You guys focus on players who excel in categories that aren't conducive to winning basketball games.

My stat is 1000% more relevant than yours for a myriad of reasons, the first of which being that your sample size is less than 1/20 of mine.

KnickaBocka.44
07-22-2013, 07:22 PM
1) Miami
2) Chicago
3) Atlanta
4) Indiana
5) Toronto
6) Detroit
7) Brooklyn
8) Milwaukee

My God, the East is awful.

This has to be a joke :speechless:

WadeKobe
07-22-2013, 07:27 PM
This has to be a joke :speechless:

This sort of ignores possible tanking scenarios. But no, not a joke. Why would it be a joke?

goku
07-22-2013, 07:30 PM
1) Miami
2) Chicago
3) Atlanta
4) Indiana
5) Toronto
6) Detroit
7) Brooklyn
8) Milwaukee

My God, the East is awful.

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :laugh:

so are ur predictions

WadeKobe
07-22-2013, 07:41 PM
lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :laugh:

so are ur predictions

There are only 3 problematic items for most people when compared to other predictions.

(1) Atlanta high --- they got rid of a mediocre PF who misses a lot of shots and rebounds poorly and replaced him with a better PF, which will open up more opportunities on offense for people like Horford and Korver. In a bad east, this team improved big time by ditching JSmoove.

(2) Nets low --- I have covered this in another thread. They overachieved last year due to winning an unusual amount of close games. That won't repeat itself, they will have chemistry issues, and they are old and slow. They will win about 40-45 games.

(3) Knicks out --- they lost their best player in Jason Kidd, they don't have a PG to command the offense, and between Bargnani, Melo, and JR Smith they will have no defense, take a lot of shots, and make very few. This team got much worse this offseason.

I realize this is a forum where fluff and bombast is viewed highly, but a little substantive critique would maybe go a long way.

69centers
07-22-2013, 07:44 PM
I don't think the Wizards, Cavs, Bucks or Pistons are making the playoffs this year. But the Celtics will ...

tredigs
07-22-2013, 08:21 PM
Why do you feel that way? Real question

Why I think they'll have the toughest of them to win 50 of those 5? Because they won 54 last year and I feel the team is worse off now. Andrea Bargnani - barring a resurgence - will make the team worse when he is on the floor. He doesn't play D, can't board and isn't an efficient scorer. Coming from a PF/C, that's a wretched combo and will without a doubt hurt you guys. The loss of J. Kidd in favor of minutes for guys like Tim Hardaway Jr. is also going to hurt. If Hardaway was ultra inefficient in his final year at Michigan St., it doesn't bode well as a rookie in the NBA. You also lost your best 3pt shooter and I'm just not sure Artest has too much left to offer in the league. 46 wins wouldn't shock me a bit, tho' I think they could still reach 50 and actually I originally projected them at 49-54 (which thinking on it more, is probably high).

D-Leethal
07-22-2013, 08:25 PM
Yea but doesn't this whole thing sound like it would be a historical first? I mean with regards to the middle class being so thin.

I think someone posted that it happened last year in the West.

D-Leethal
07-22-2013, 08:33 PM
Why I think they'll have the toughest of them to win 50 of those 5? Because they won 54 last year and I feel the team is worse off now. Andrea Bargnani - barring a resurgence - will make the team worse when he is on the floor. He doesn't play D, can't board and isn't an efficient scorer. Coming from a PF/C, that's a wretched combo and will without a doubt hurt you guys. The loss of J. Kidd in favor of minutes for guys like Tim Hardaway Jr. is also going to hurt. If Hardaway was ultra inefficient in his final year at Michigan St., it doesn't bode well as a rookie in the NBA. You also lost your best 3pt shooter and I'm just not sure Artest has too much left to offer in the league. 46 wins wouldn't shock me a bit, tho' I think they could still reach 50 and actually I originally projected them at 49-54 (which thinking on it more, is probably high).

Don't act like everything fell into place last year and we were lucky to hit 54. We had more games missed due to injury than any team besides SA and Boston. Melo missed 16 games, Felton missed over a month, Shump missed half the season, we played without a legitimate C for 16 games, Amare who was an efficient scoring machine barely played all year.

Last year it was all about the vets were washed up and too old, this year its all about how were gonna miss their veteran leadership.

tredigs
07-22-2013, 08:39 PM
He had the highest +/- on the Lakers last year. I seriously can't believe you just said that.

Look at his backups? Can't put too much stock in +/- for 1 season, anyway. If you think you're getting more than a regressing and very middling addition, you're probably going to be disappointed.


Don't act like everything fell into place last year and we were lucky to hit 54. We had more games missed due to injury than any team besides SA and Boston. Melo missed 16 games, Felton missed over a month, Shump missed half the season, we played without a legitimate C for 16 games, Amare who was an efficient scoring machine barely played all year.

Last year it was all about the vets were washed up and too old, this year its all about how were gonna miss their veteran leadership.

Well, J. Kidd was pretty washed up relative to J. Kidd, but he's still far more important to a team than anything you're going to get from Hardaway Jr. And trust me, you guys are going to be cursing Bargnani all year. The team is worse, I'd be willing to bet on it. And you're right, they did have quite a bit of injury. But just off the top of my head I'm positive the Wolves had more, so not sure I can trust the SA + Boston line.

Pacerlive
07-22-2013, 09:10 PM
Well you've seen what people think of Bargnani and MWP so people think your bench is still average. JR and Melo are coming off career years so maybe one of them falls back to reality a bit. Most likely JR (injury will slow him early before he can get his legs).

I'm not a fan of your interior D, no post threat on offense and your probably going to be a bad rebounding team again so while the Knicks were plagued with many of those things last year they found a way to overcome their weaknesses.

Not saying they won't again but the Knicks weaknesses are a little more clearer then say the rest of the big 5. I don't see glaring weaknesses on any other team like the Knicks as the other teams have improved theirs better then the Knicks have.

They'll still be in the mix come the end of the year and probably win right around 50 games again but from looking at all the other posters responses it seems like they think the other teams got better then the Knicks have.

I mean the top 4-5 teams were fairly close last season so one team adding (KG/PP/Terry) and the other adding an MVP and the other getting a former allstar and revamping their bench added more than Bargs and MWP.

Edit: I actually ranked mine like this
MIA
CHI
BK
NYK
IND

I'm actually more down on the Pacers (for regular season rankings) then I am the Knicks. Just think they lucked out with their playoffs schedule before they saw MIA and they just matched up well enough to test them. I think now with CHI getting back and the revamped BK team the Pacers size is not something they can just push teams around with anymore.
Shouldn't that mean your down on the Heat then? I mean if they address their size problem then why would they be on top if the the Nets and Bulls got better.

I am not going to lie the Pacers did have an easier schedule facing Atlanta but please tell me how NyK got bigger. They certainly got softer than a catfish belly with the addition of Bargs but he isn't anything to get excited about. The guy is a 7 ft sieve who couldn't find the hospital in a ambulance.

nycericanguy
07-22-2013, 09:37 PM
Shouldn't that mean your down on the Heat then? I mean if they address their size problem then why would they be on top if the the Nets and Bulls got better.

I am not going to lie the Pacers did have an easier schedule facing Atlanta but please tell me how NyK got bigger. They certainly got softer than a catfish belly with the addition of Bargs but he isn't anything to get excited about. The guy is a 7 ft sieve who couldn't find the hospital in a ambulance.

Bargs is a good post defender. He may not be a great rebounder but the fact is he's a 260 lb body to deal with, vs having 2 PG's and JR at SF. that alone will improve NY's rebounding. Also the fact that he will pull opposing bigs out of the paint, that helps on the boards tremendously. people are too enamored with RPG with Bargs, he's 7'0 tall but he plays outside...

And of course MWP.

Knicks won't have to rely on JR or Shump at SF now, yes they definitely got bigger.

beasted86
07-22-2013, 10:47 PM
Does the seeding really matter?

Miami is going to the Finals again, and you all know this.

Deal with it.

beasted86
07-22-2013, 10:49 PM
Bargs is a good post defender.

Stopped reading here.


Did this: :pity:

PacersForLife
07-22-2013, 10:56 PM
I don't completely understand why a lot of people think Danny Granger will ruin the chemistry or hurt the Pacers in any form. He does what we missed most last year, and that is scoring.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-22-2013, 11:34 PM
Does the seeding really matter?

Miami is going to the Finals again, and you all know this.

Deal with it.

The Heat will not be attending the finals this upcoming year, sorry. The Heat will ahve to face real competition this year. No more free rings for the most over rated championship team ever.

SportsFanatic10
07-23-2013, 01:04 AM
heat
bulls
pacers
nets
knicks
hawks
cavs
raps

MyDRoseLikeDeng
07-23-2013, 03:18 AM
Does the seeding really matter?

Miami is going to the Finals again, and you all know this.

Deal with it.

lawl

HiphopRelated
07-23-2013, 08:20 AM
The Heat will not be attending the finals this upcoming year, sorry. The Heat will ahve to face real competition this year. No more free rings for the most over rated championship team ever.

This story will change in June to "it was easy and doesn't count"

Pacerlive
07-23-2013, 08:24 AM
Bargs is a good post defender. He may not be a great rebounder but the fact is he's a 260 lb body to deal with, vs having 2 PG's and JR at SF. that alone will improve NY's rebounding. Also the fact that he will pull opposing bigs out of the paint, that helps on the boards tremendously. people are too enamored with RPG with Bargs, he's 7'0 tall but he plays outside...

And of course MWP.

Knicks won't have to rely on JR or Shump at SF now, yes they definitely got bigger.
Well if you think he is a good post defender then just go look up his head to head numbers against David West or Carlos Boozer. They both scored very efficiently against Bargs while he shot below 30% from three.

The guy is a sieve plan and simple and this is especially true against teams that actually have a post game.

SteBO
07-23-2013, 09:55 AM
Does the seeding really matter?

Miami is going to the Finals again, and you all know this.

Deal with it.
Stiffer competition this upcoming year man.....but Miami's in a pretty good position to do it again if healthy. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just trying to convince themself.

SteBO
07-23-2013, 09:56 AM
The Heat will not be attending the finals this upcoming year, sorry. The Heat will ahve to face real competition this year. No more free rings for the most over rated championship team ever.
Don't you ever get tired?

Rockice_8
07-23-2013, 10:03 AM
Shouldn't that mean your down on the Heat then? I mean if they address their size problem then why would they be on top if the the Nets and Bulls got better.

I am not going to lie the Pacers did have an easier schedule facing Atlanta but please tell me how NyK got bigger. They certainly got softer than a catfish belly with the addition of Bargs but he isn't anything to get excited about. The guy is a 7 ft sieve who couldn't find the hospital in a ambulance.

Well yeah MIA didn't addresses their size they have the best player in the world and back to back rings so I'll cut them some slack.

I was talking more regular season as the teams like the Knicks are built better for the regular season. I think it'll be really close the 2-5 seeds so really it's not a knock on one team in particular but I just think INDY will be the 5th seed. Come playoff time though no reason they can't beat the Knicks again should they matchup or anyone else for that matter. They are certainly a tough out for anyone. Just looking at the regular season here and I think they are the 5th seed probably only a few games behind the #2 seed. It's that close.

nycericanguy
07-23-2013, 10:33 AM
Well if you think he is a good post defender then just go look up his head to head numbers against David West or Carlos Boozer. They both scored very efficiently against Bargs while he shot below 30% from three.

The guy is a sieve plan and simple and this is especially true against teams that actually have a post game.

Believe it or not, Bargs one on one defensive numbers are pretty damn good...

It's his help & team defense that has been very poor, but he's also never played with a defensive C like Chandler. And he was asked to play C a lot in TOR. NY is a much better situation for him.

Pacerlive
07-23-2013, 11:00 AM
Believe it or not, Bargs one on one defensive numbers are pretty damn good...

It's his help & team defense that has been very poor, but he's also never played with a defensive C like Chandler. And he was asked to play C a lot in TOR. NY is a much better situation for him.

Alright show me these one on one numbers against some post up teams. I already showed you how West and Boozer faired against him. Will he do well against Chris Bosh? Sure but against a post up teams which NYK will face he will be a sieve.

About the only thing I agree with you is that NYK is a better situation for him but I would be more concerned that the guy lost his 3 point shooting 2 years ago and is injury prone.

effen5
07-23-2013, 11:01 AM
Bulls
Heat
Pacers

Doesn't matter

nycericanguy
07-23-2013, 11:10 AM
Alright show me these one on one numbers against some post up teams. I already showed you how West and Boozer faired against him. Will he do well against Chris Bosh? Sure but against a post up teams which NYK will face he will be a sieve.

About the only thing I agree with you is that NYK is a better situation for him but I would be more concerned that the guy lost his 3 point shooting 2 years ago and is injury prone.

His synergy numbers say he's a very good 1 on 1 defender. I'm not worried about his injuries the past 2 years, he doesn't have bad knees or a bad back... he didn't have micro fracture surgery or anything... just some nagging injuries. but from everything I've read he's absolutely 100% healthy now and about to play for Italy.

If help defense is his problem, you probably couldn't ask for a better C to put next to him than Tyson.


I never saw him as being worth a lick as a help-defender, but it was becoming obvious to me and others that at the very least, Bargs was evolving into an underrated one-on-one defender, if not a solid one. While Chris Bosh was getting praise for taking on more of a defensive role to help the U.S. capture Olympic gold in 2008, Bargnani might have been out-performing him on the defensive end in Toronto (Before you go ******* on me, no, I am not suggesting Bargnani is better than Bosh, just that he was probably always a better one-on-one defender than Bosh was).
But even those of us who could see Bargnani’s defensive improvements couldn’t have expected this:
On Friday, well known NBA web writer Matt Moore dug into the statistics to write one of the better and more in-depth Bargnani pieces you’ll find. What Moore found in stats provided by Synergy Sports is that Andrea ranked in the 88th percentile in post defence, the 56th percentile in isolation defence and a mind blowing rank in the 95th percentile in overall man-to-man defence this past season.
Let that sink in for a moment.
What the Synergy stats don’t take into account is the very downfall of Bargnani’s defence, and that’s his absolute bewilderment when it comes to the concept of help-defence (Synergy’s defensive measure takes into account the man a player defends from possession to possession, but doesn’t take into account the fact that a player failed to rotate properly to cover a player who has blown by one of his teammates. If that now unmarked player scores, the onus falls on the player that was initially guarding the scorer, which is the player that was blown by).
Moore, though, does go into Bargnani’s help struggles in his fair assessment, which includes the observation that Bargs might almost be too locked in to his initial defensive assignment of guarding his own man.

http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog/2012/08/18/on-bargnanis-impressive-defensive-numbers/

ManningToTyree
07-23-2013, 11:13 AM
I skipped a bunch of pages. Is this a Knicks nets **** show yet?

Anyway
Heat
Bulls
Nets
Indy
Knicks
Hawks
Raps
Cavs

2-5 can fall in any order and I wouldn't be surprised. Nets are 2nd on paper but given chemistry adjustments I put them third. Bulls as the two if Rose is himself.

Green_Monster
07-23-2013, 11:22 AM
Does the seeding really matter?

Miami is going to the Finals again, and you all know this.

Deal with it.

The past two years, they played 7 games in the ECF. In fact, in the 2012 playoffs, the Celtics were up 3-2 in the EFC. They can be beat, and thinking otherwise is asinine.

Pacerlive
07-23-2013, 11:32 AM
His synergy numbers say he's a very good 1 on 1 defender. I'm not worried about his injuries the past 2 years, he doesn't have bad knees or a bad back... he didn't have micro fracture surgery or anything... just some nagging injuries. but from everything I've read he's absolutely 100% healthy now and about to play for Italy.

If help defense is his problem, you probably couldn't ask for a better C to put next to him than Tyson.



http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog/2012/08/18/on-bargnanis-impressive-defensive-numbers/
Thanks for the link but really he won't be playing the Center position which is where those synergy numbers are being drawn from and I'll state it again the post up offense you will get from Boozer and West will make Bargs look bad. If I had to guess why his numbers have improved is simply because their are very few good post up centers anymore. But like I said he will play against some great pnp pf's in the playoffs so the postional change will affect him unless you think last year playing with Val was some illusion of Bargs game.

TheLegend
07-23-2013, 11:40 AM
I'm not sure why it's funny that JB listed the Bulls as a top 2 team? It's probably more likely to happen than the Pacers being there. Even last year, with just about everything in their favor they were just the 3 seed. IMO they reached their ceiling last season and will go back to being 2nd best in their own division and no better than a 3-4 seed in the conference. They're the Grizzlies of the East.

It would be premature and almost even borderline foolish to say the pacers have reached their ceiling. Personally I have the bulls over the pacers. But Paul George is only 23 and he emerged last year. He could get a lot better. There are times where a player make a transition, Rose did in 2011. It's a time when one season the player is a star, then the next they are elite and become a MVP, superstar type player. Paul George can do that, not saying he will, but he certainly has the potential. Roy Hibbert also took a step IMO, both physically and mentally with leadership. Hibbert was very vocal against MIami and his attitude was just different. And if they can get Granger integrated, they could change the landscape. I still have the Bulls over them but the heat could go to 3rd IMO because wade is slowing down, and will coast in the reg season, and I think bosh doesn't really fit well in Miami to be honest. However, the heat has Lebron, championship experience and can slip to 3rd and still win the east. They are a veteran team and winning on the road in the playoffs doesn't scare them. I see the pacers and bulls fighting for the top seed in the east.

nycericanguy
07-23-2013, 12:08 PM
Thanks for the link but really he won't be playing the Center position which is where those synergy numbers are being drawn from and I'll state it again the post up offense you will get from Boozer and West will make Bargs look bad. If I had to guess why his numbers have improved is simply because their are very few good post up centers anymore. But like I said he will play against some great pnp pf's in the playoffs so the postional change will affect him unless you think last year playing with Val was some illusion of Bargs game.

Bargs only played like 30 games last year, came off the bench and was hurt. And Val isn't a good defender like Tyson.

I'm not worried about what happened last year. From the age of 22-26 Bargs improved every year and averaged over 18ppg. He was getting to the line a lot also. Clearly a lot went wrong last year and he took a lot of heat.

He played a lot of C for TOR, but he also played a lot of PF and guarded PF's so you can't just discount his synergy numbers. Besides, they say what I hear pretty much everyone say, he's a solid 1 on 1 defender but struggles on help... Knicks have a winning culture and a good defensive C, I'm really not worried about Bargs at all.

2-ONE-5
07-23-2013, 12:25 PM
Bulls
Heat
Pacers
Nets
Knicks
Raptors
Wizards
Bobcats

RLundi
07-23-2013, 12:31 PM
Does the seeding really matter?

Miami is going to the Finals again, and you all know this.

Deal with it.

Yes, because they've made it to the Finals the past 3 years completely unscathed and unchallenged.

2-ONE-5
07-23-2013, 12:37 PM
Bargs only played like 30 games last year, came off the bench and was hurt. And Val isn't a good defender like Tyson.

I'm not worried about what happened last year. From the age of 22-26 Bargs improved every year and averaged over 18ppg. He was getting to the line a lot also. Clearly a lot went wrong last year and he took a lot of heat.

He played a lot of C for TOR, but he also played a lot of PF and guarded PF's so you can't just discount his synergy numbers. Besides, they say what I hear pretty much everyone say, he's a solid 1 on 1 defender but struggles on help... Knicks have a winning culture and a good defensive C, I'm really not worried about Bargs at all.

since when do the Knicks have a winning culture?

Guppyfighter
07-23-2013, 12:39 PM
since when do the Knicks have a winning culture?

HEY THEY GOT OUTTA THE FIRST ROUND FINALLY

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiii

Pacerlive
07-23-2013, 01:15 PM
Bargs only played like 30 games last year, came off the bench and was hurt. And Val isn't a good defender like Tyson.

I'm not worried about what happened last year. From the age of 22-26 Bargs improved every year and averaged over 18ppg. He was getting to the line a lot also. Clearly a lot went wrong last year and he took a lot of heat.

He played a lot of C for TOR, but he also played a lot of PF and guarded PF's so you can't just discount his synergy numbers. Besides, they say what I hear pretty much everyone say, he's a solid 1 on 1 defender but struggles on help... Knicks have a winning culture and a good defensive C, I'm really not worried about Bargs at all.
See now your just not really looking at the numbers (see bolded). The guy has fallen off with his three point shot and all I hear from the Knick fans is that he will fit in nicely because he can spread the floor. If anything the last 2 years show that he can't spread the floor well either as a pf or C.

To the point of the synergy numbers I will agian point out that those numbers were used in 11-12 which is ANOTHER season where he only played 30 some games. So really what your saying is that 30 some games in one season proves your point but 30 some games in another season shouldn't be used since it doesn't? :eyebrow:

NYKNYGNYY
07-23-2013, 01:21 PM
Nobody has the Knicks ahead of the nets? Not saying we should be just thought itd be more even the. Lop sided

Chill_Will_24
07-23-2013, 01:38 PM
Nobody has the Knicks ahead of the nets? Not saying we should be just thought itd be more even the. Lop sided

A few Knicks fans do :)

FYL_McVeezy
07-23-2013, 01:41 PM
Nobody has the Knicks ahead of the nets? Not saying we should be just thought itd be more even the. Lop sided

I have the Knicks ahead of the Nets....

Paper tigers get no love in my team rankings.......

MonroeFAN
07-23-2013, 01:49 PM
lol @ paper tigers. They finished last year 5 wins behind you guys, and improved greatly.

bstnfn34
07-23-2013, 02:04 PM
1.nets(or heat)
2.heat(or nets)
3.Chi
4.indy
5.NY
6.Det
7.Celtics
8.Cle

Slug3
07-23-2013, 02:31 PM
The past two years, they played 7 games in the ECF. In fact, in the 2012 playoffs, the Celtics were up 3-2 in the EFC. They can be beat, and thinking otherwise is asinine.

Except they haven't been beat. That's the important thing.

KnickaBocka.44
07-23-2013, 02:32 PM
lol @ paper tigers. They finished last year 5 wins behind you guys, and improved greatly.

Knicks didn't have any injuries or get better either :rolleyes:

Green_Monster
07-23-2013, 02:38 PM
Except they haven't been beat. That's the important thing.

The Mavericks beat them 4-2 in the Finals. Forgetting about that already?

yungincome
07-23-2013, 02:46 PM
They actually got demonstrably worse.

Do explain DEMONSTRABLY worse. You sound like a hater.

RLundi
07-23-2013, 02:52 PM
Except they haven't been beat. That's the important thing.

They have been beat, and they absolutely can be beat. Celtics, Pacers, Spurs can attest to this. Oh yeah, and the Dallas Mavericks.

The Heat are hands down the best team in the league, but to suggest they are infallible or otherworldly dominant is wrong.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-23-2013, 03:20 PM
Knicks didn't have any injuries or get better either :rolleyes:

Every team had injuries, the Nets did as well. In terms of things the Nets improvements greatly outweigh the additions the Knicks made.

nycericanguy
07-23-2013, 03:27 PM
See now your just not really looking at the numbers (see bolded). The guy has fallen off with his three point shot and all I hear from the Knick fans is that he will fit in nicely because he can spread the floor. If anything the last 2 years show that he can't spread the floor well either as a pf or C.

To the point of the synergy numbers I will agian point out that those numbers were used in 11-12 which is ANOTHER season where he only played 30 some games. So really what your saying is that 30 some games in one season proves your point but 30 some games in another season shouldn't be used since it doesn't? :eyebrow:

an elbow doesn't affect your defense, it does however affect your shot...

I'll take his career 37% 3pt shot over 2 injured years where he struggled.

His good man to man defense goes back further than 2012 as well

valade16
07-23-2013, 03:31 PM
Except they haven't been beat. That's the important thing.

I know that history fades over time but damn, really?

Ever heard of the Dallas Mavericks?

mdm692
07-23-2013, 03:47 PM
1. Chicago Bulls
2. Indiana Pacers
3. Miami Heat
4. New York Knicks
5. Brookly Nets
6. Cleveland Cavaliers
7. Detroit Pistons
8. Atlanta Hawks


Which would lead Lebron and the Heat playing the Cleveland Cavaliers in the 1st round the year he can be a FA.

5ass
07-23-2013, 03:53 PM
an elbow doesn't affect your defense, it does however affect your shot...

I'll take his career 37% 3pt shot over 2 injured years where he struggled.

His good man to man defense goes back further than 2012 as well

Bargnani is still going to be a **** defender. He's a decent man to man defender, but not against agile PFs. Tyson guarding PFs isnt a good idea.

Rockice_8
07-23-2013, 04:11 PM
Every team had injuries, the Nets did as well. In terms of things the Nets improvements greatly outweigh the additions the Knicks made.

He thinks MWP is a better addition than AK47. So you can see where his head is at.

boboo73
07-23-2013, 04:23 PM
Except they haven't been beat. That's the important thing.
Dallas did it

KnickaBocka.44
07-23-2013, 05:18 PM
Every team had injuries, the Nets did as well. In terms of things the Nets improvements greatly outweigh the additions the Knicks made.

Oh so when the Pacers get Granger back they are better but when the Knicks get Amare back and Shump for a whole season that doesn't matter? Almost forgot I was on PSD for a minute.

KnickaBocka.44
07-23-2013, 05:19 PM
He thinks MWP is a better addition than AK47. So you can see where his head is at.

LOL I still never said it was better.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-23-2013, 05:27 PM
Don't you ever get tired?

I don't sleep :D

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-23-2013, 05:33 PM
Oh so when the Pacers get Granger back they are better but when the Knicks get Amare back and Shump for a whole season that doesn't matter? Almost forgot I was on PSD for a minute.

Who says Amare is gunna stay healthy? He hasn't had a full healthy season since 2009-10. Shump I will give you but I can just as easily turn that around and talk about how our best player, Deron Williams, wasnt himself due to injuries until halfway through the season.

Captain Moroni
07-23-2013, 05:53 PM
They actually got demonstrably worse.

no they actually got better. Best kept secret of the offseason.

KnickaBocka.44
07-23-2013, 05:55 PM
He only missed 4 games in 10-11, don't even try that crap with me

Who says he's not? You can't assume an injury WILL happen, especially because Amare's injuries rarely happen during the season.

You could turn around and say that about Deron if you wanted, but it still wouldn't be the same situation.

The Knicks were the better team last year, they are getting injured players back and upgraded their rotation. I know the Nets are trendy right now because they are making so much noise with their acquisitions, but the gap between the 2 teams isn't as big as many like to think.

Captain Moroni
07-23-2013, 06:03 PM
Oh so when the Pacers get Granger back they are better but when the Knicks get Amare back and Shump for a whole season that doesn't matter? Almost forgot I was on PSD for a minute.

On PSD every other team gets better with older players, ....except the Knicks. Every other team gets injured players back without missing a beat....except the Knicks. All players acquired by other teams will instantly become awesome and help said teams.....except for the Knicks.

Last year the Knicks "Sucked" and would go no where because they were "OLD". Because Melo was not even a top 15 player anymore. They would be awful because Raymond Felton was a fat pig, and Woodson couldnt win in Atlanta. They just won 54 games, Melo won the scoring title, Felton was just solid and Woodson continued to coach well. And they had a great overall season.
The players lost from that team were the ancient 3 of Kidd, Camby, and Sheed. A player named Copeland who no one ever heard of and Steve Novak.
The players brought in were Bargnani, Artest and THJ. But somehow the Knicks got worse....What?

DRose sits out a year and everyone not only thinks he will return without a hitch, Bulls fans are thinking 63 wins.
Amare and Shump sat out half a season last year and the Knicks still won 54 games. Oh wait, its the Knicks, they just suck.

I hope the Knicks "suck" again this year and win 58-60 games.

Captain Moroni
07-23-2013, 06:06 PM
Who says Amare is gunna stay healthy? He hasn't had a full healthy season since 2009-10. Shump I will give you but I can just as easily turn that around and talk about how our best player, Deron Williams, wasnt himself due to injuries until halfway through the season.

So why assume that DWill is going to be Healthy THIS SEASON? Cant always be glass is half full with your team and half empty for everyone else.

Let me ask you this, IF (Big IF) Amare is 100% healthy this year...Does that make the Knicks better?

Captain Moroni
07-23-2013, 06:12 PM
He thinks MWP is a better addition than AK47. So you can see where his head is at.

Not exactly a stretch. AK47 was awful out here in Utah. The fans literally Booed him out of Utah. hated him. You make it sound as if this guy is an all star or something. Artest RIGHT NOW has more to offer a team than AK47. By years end you will see that.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-23-2013, 06:24 PM
So why assume that DWill is going to be Healthy THIS SEASON? Cant always be glass is half full with your team and half empty for everyone else.

Let me ask you this, IF (Big IF) Amare is 100% healthy this year...Does that make the Knicks better?

Better as a team? Yes (helps interior scoring) . Better than last year? No. The interior defense is still extremely weak besides Chandler. The top 4 teams that have the likes of big men like Hibbert, West, Boozer, Noah, Bosh, Lopez, and Garnett should have a field day. Amare is a big liability on the defensive end, even with him healthy last season he didnt make you guys better.

tredigs
07-23-2013, 06:25 PM
On PSD every other team gets better with older players, ....except the Knicks. Every other team gets injured players back without missing a beat....except the Knicks. All players acquired by other teams will instantly become awesome and help said teams.....except for the Knicks.

Last year the Knicks "Sucked" and would go no where because they were "OLD". Because Melo was not even a top 15 player anymore. They would be awful because Raymond Felton was a fat pig, and Woodson couldnt win in Atlanta. They just won 54 games, Melo won the scoring title, Felton was just solid and Woodson continued to coach well. And they had a great overall season.
The players lost from that team were the ancient 3 of Kidd, Camby, and Sheed. A player named Copeland who no one ever heard of and Steve Novak.
The players brought in were Bargnani, Artest and THJ. But somehow the Knicks got worse....What?

DRose sits out a year and everyone not only thinks he will return without a hitch, Bulls fans are thinking 63 wins.
Amare and Shump sat out half a season last year and the Knicks still won 54 games. Oh wait, its the Knicks, they just suck.

I hope the Knicks "suck" again this year and win 58-60 games.

Do you think the Knicks are reaching the ECF? Did you think they were contenders the past couple seasons as we've been pounded with?


Not exactly a stretch. AK47 was awful out here in Utah. The fans literally Booed him out of Utah. hated him. You make it sound as if this guy is an all star or something. Artest RIGHT NOW has more to offer a team than AK47. By years end you will see that.

Complete horse ****. AK is far more impactful.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-23-2013, 06:28 PM
Do you think the Knicks are reaching the ECF? Did you think they were contenders the past couple seasons as we've been pounded with?



Complete horse ****. AK is far more impactful.

This whole AK47 and Metta debate is completely ridiculous, the fact that people think Metta is the better player is beyond idiotic.

Green_Monster
07-23-2013, 06:30 PM
Not exactly a stretch. AK47 was awful out here in Utah. The fans literally Booed him out of Utah. hated him. You make it sound as if this guy is an all star or something. Artest RIGHT NOW has more to offer a team than AK47. By years end you will see that.

AK47 was better than MWP last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kirilan01&y1=2013&p2=artesro01&y2=2013

tredigs
07-23-2013, 06:37 PM
AK47 was better than MWP last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kirilan01&y1=2013&p2=artesro01&y2=2013

Doesn't even do it justice. Eye test, RAPM, Synergy, Wins Produced... AK crushed Artest. And he's 2 years younger. It's kind of ridiculous to think Artest is better. I don't think you'd have seen 1 Knick fan say so 2 weeks ago.

Captain Moroni
07-23-2013, 06:41 PM
AK47 was better than MWP last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kirilan01&y1=2013&p2=artesro01&y2=2013

Stats in this case are meaningless. IMPACT is what makes Artest the better player. AK47 was a major cog on a HORRIBLE Twolves team. Artest was an afterthought option on a star studded team. The Knicks need Artest to do EXACTLY what he did in LA, the Nets will use AK47 in a much lesser role, therefore the addition of Artest is bigger than the addition of Kirelinko.

Game on the line, I want Artest on the floor and AK47 on the bench.

Captain Moroni
07-23-2013, 06:45 PM
Doesn't even do it justice. Eye test, RAPM, Synergy, Wins Produced... AK crushed Artest. And he's 2 years younger. It's kind of ridiculous to think Artest is better. I don't think you'd have seen 1 Knick fan say so 2 weeks ago.

I respectfully disagree with you. I have never liked AK47. This guy was a bum in Utah and never lived up to his ability. Who cares if Artest is 2 years older? That has Zero Bearing on the argument of which player will have a bigger impact and which signing was more important. In truth none of us has any idea until the season starts anyway, just speculation.

If you asked me 2 months ago who I would want more it would be Artest.

Captain Moroni
07-23-2013, 06:46 PM
This whole AK47 and Metta debate is completely ridiculous, the fact that people think Metta is the better player is beyond idiotic.

No, the fact that some people cant let other people have their own opinion is idiotic.

tredigs
07-23-2013, 06:48 PM
Stats in this case are meaningless. IMPACT is what makes Artest the better player. AK47 was a major cog on a HORRIBLE Twolves team. Artest was an afterthought option on a star studded team. The Knicks need Artest to do EXACTLY what he did in LA, the Nets will use AK47 in a much lesser role, therefore the addition of Artest is bigger than the addition of Kirelinko.

Game on the line, I want Artest on the floor and AK47 on the bench.

AK had the same role in Minny (same mpg, same USG%, same impact on both ends) that he's had for the last half decade+, and he'll have a very similar 28-30 mpg role in Brooklyn. And he'll be better than Artest, as he has been for years. The guy hasn't even broken 41% from the field or a 51% TS% since his Sac days, and his defense has been getting progressively less potent. I imagine a continued regression this season to the point of not being an impact player what so ever. But we'll see.


I respectfully disagree with you. I have never liked AK47. This guy was a bum in Utah and never lived up to his ability. Who cares if Artest is 2 years older? That has Zero Bearing on the argument of which player will have a bigger impact and which signing was more important. In truth none of us has any idea until the season starts anyway, just speculation.

If you asked me 2 months ago who I would want more it would be Artest.

He was far from a bum dude. So respectfully disagree right back. Didn't live up to his potential? That's fair, but his potential was speculated at superstar level. Time will tell, although if you think Artest has been better than AK the past few years, then we're watching different leagues.

KnickaBocka.44
07-23-2013, 07:54 PM
AK had the same role in Minny (same mpg, same USG%, same impact on both ends) that he's had for the last half decade+, and he'll have a very similar 28-30 mpg role in Brooklyn. And he'll be better than Artest, as he has been for years. The guy hasn't even broken 41% from the field or a 51% TS% since his Sac days, and his defense has been getting progressively less potent. I imagine a continued regression this season to the point of not being an impact player what so ever. But we'll see.



He was far from a bum dude. So respectfully disagree right back. Didn't live up to his potential? That's fair, but his potential was speculated at superstar level. Time will tell, although if you think Artest has been better than AK the past few years, then we're watching different leagues.

Worked out fine for the Lakers :confused:

tredigs
07-23-2013, 08:25 PM
Worked out fine for the Lakers :confused:

For 1 season? Might've had something to do with having Kobe/Pau/Bynum on offense while Artest still had a large defensive impact (also they were the defending champs when he joined). But who knows. How'd it work out the last 3 years?

KnickaBocka.44
07-23-2013, 08:33 PM
For 1 season? Might've had something to do with having Kobe/Pau/Bynum on offense while Artest still had a large defensive impact (also they were the defending champs when he joined). But who knows. How'd it work out the last 3 years?

Unless you are going to find a way to pin Pau's substandard playoff performances on MWP then he shouldn't shoulder too much blame for their playoff losses.

FYL_McVeezy
07-24-2013, 12:08 AM
On PSD every other team gets better with older players, ....except the Knicks. Every other team gets injured players back without missing a beat....except the Knicks. All players acquired by other teams will instantly become awesome and help said teams.....except for the Knicks.

Last year the Knicks "Sucked" and would go no where because they were "OLD". Because Melo was not even a top 15 player anymore. They would be awful because Raymond Felton was a fat pig, and Woodson couldnt win in Atlanta. They just won 54 games, Melo won the scoring title, Felton was just solid and Woodson continued to coach well. And they had a great overall season.
The players lost from that team were the ancient 3 of Kidd, Camby, and Sheed. A player named Copeland who no one ever heard of and Steve Novak.
The players brought in were Bargnani, Artest and THJ. But somehow the Knicks got worse....What?

DRose sits out a year and everyone not only thinks he will return without a hitch, Bulls fans are thinking 63 wins.
Amare and Shump sat out half a season last year and the Knicks still won 54 games. Oh wait, its the Knicks, they just suck.

I hope the Knicks "suck" again this year and win 58-60 games.

:clap::clap::clap:

PSD aka the Twilight Zone....

KnickaBocka.44
07-24-2013, 01:13 AM
On PSD every other team gets better with older players, ....except the Knicks. Every other team gets injured players back without missing a beat....except the Knicks. All players acquired by other teams will instantly become awesome and help said teams.....except for the Knicks.

Last year the Knicks "Sucked" and would go no where because they were "OLD". Because Melo was not even a top 15 player anymore. They would be awful because Raymond Felton was a fat pig, and Woodson couldnt win in Atlanta. They just won 54 games, Melo won the scoring title, Felton was just solid and Woodson continued to coach well. And they had a great overall season.
The players lost from that team were the ancient 3 of Kidd, Camby, and Sheed. A player named Copeland who no one ever heard of and Steve Novak.
The players brought in were Bargnani, Artest and THJ. But somehow the Knicks got worse....What?

DRose sits out a year and everyone not only thinks he will return without a hitch, Bulls fans are thinking 63 wins.
Amare and Shump sat out half a season last year and the Knicks still won 54 games. Oh wait, its the Knicks, they just suck.

I hope the Knicks "suck" again this year and win 58-60 games.

This x 1000