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nyr2002nyr
07-20-2013, 06:01 PM
Arron Asham: Some Rangers were fed up with John Tortorella's act

PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE, MAN. - Arron Asham is looking forward to having a little bit more fun this upcoming NHL season.

The New York Rangers forward and Portage la Prairie product will head into the final season of his two-year deal with the Blueshirts, eager to return to a solid young lineup and anxious to play for a familiar face as well.

New head coach Alain Vigneault was behind the bench coaching Asham for parts of two and a half seasons from 1999-2002 with the Montreal Canadiens.

"I know him a little bit, so hopefully he knows my game and knows what I can do and hopefully he gives me a good shot out there to get some ice time and pot a few goals," Asham said.

And he's also looking forward to entering what he thinks will be a looser environment in the Rangers dressing room.

Former coach and current Canucks bench boss John Tortorella, known for his fiery demeanour, took a lot of heat for the team's underachieving superstars which led to a second-round playoff exit last season and he was canned soon after.

Asham says he enjoyed 'Torts', but says some of the players were getting fed up with his act.

"He's very intense and he wants to get the most out of his players," said Asham. "He does a decent job of doing that, but when you're in the same spot for a certain amount of years and you have the same players, the guys seem to get fed up with all the screaming and stuff.

"Having a new face coming in and having a little more fun will be good. It was pretty intense in the dressing room, guys were a little uptight, but now we have a new guy and we can start laughing and having some fun."

In 27 regular season games last season, Asham scored two goals and added two more in 10 playoff games including the game-winner in the seventh game of their first-round series against the Washington Capitals.

After having been put on waivers earlier in the month and going unclaimed, Asham says, barring a trade, he'll be at Rangers' training camp battling for a spot on the team's fourth line.

"It was more of a salary thing for signing guys in the next year. They haven't given up on me. I'm still going back and playing for the Rangers," he said.

"Sure, I would have been happy if somebody picked me up. But it's just part of the business. I wasn't hurt or upset or anything like that."

Asham is in the city for a couple of weeks as his Chance 2 play charity holds several events, including its annual golf tournament Friday at Portage Golf Club, this year sponsored by Scotiabank.

"It's something that I look definitely forward to," he said. "I'm back home and I get to spend two weeks with family and friends and raise money for a good cause."

The charity, which provides hockey opportunities for families struggling financially, is in its ninth year and has helped more than 160 children.http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/18/arron-asham-some-rangers-were-fed-up-with-john-tortorellas-act

Yankee Clipper
07-22-2013, 11:30 AM
That became pretty obvious last season. I think a change was definitely in order. The problem with the Rangers for a while is they have lacked identity as a team. Hopefully the new coach has a finite system in place that will make players comfortable and understand their role.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-22-2013, 11:56 AM
I said it early in the last season. I could see on the guys faces that they were not having fun. Problem is I think Gabs, Richards, and Cally looked worse last season. Will they be able to bounce back to where they (not Gabs) were previously?

nyr2002nyr
07-22-2013, 01:36 PM
I said it early in the last season. I could see on the guys faces that they were not having fun. Problem is I think Gabs, Richards, and Cally looked worse last season. Will they be able to bounce back to where they (not Gabs) were previously?


It does prove what some guys didn't want to believe. He lost the locker room

bsi
07-22-2013, 03:58 PM
Vancouver is gonna be ok for about 2 years and then into the same thing as us. One thing about Vigneault the players like playing for him, Nash, Richards, DelZotto, will all benefit from that. DelZotto was always the guy I looked at as having a problem under the old coach, he seemed distracted by him really and nervous to make a mistake as was Gaborik last year. Hopefully things work out with the new coach, he's gonna have big shoes to fill, we made it to the conference finals two years ago and into the second round last year, getting to the conference finals would be a big thing for next year.

metswon69
07-22-2013, 11:52 PM
Vancouver is gonna be ok for about 2 years and then into the same thing as us. One thing about Vigneault the players like playing for him, Nash, Richards, DelZotto, will all benefit from that. DelZotto was always the guy I looked at as having a problem under the old coach, he seemed distracted by him really and nervous to make a mistake as was Gaborik last year. Hopefully things work out with the new coach, he's gonna have big shoes to fill, we made it to the conference finals two years ago and into the second round last year, getting to the conference finals would be a big thing for next year.

That does bring up a good question though. I wonder how Gaborik would have rebounded in this system but i agree that Del Zotto's offensive game could flourish with AV as coach.

redwhiteandblue
07-23-2013, 12:16 AM
Gaborik would have flourished under AV. His contract is up soon so who is to say we don't get him back?

His contract runs up, there's no Tortorella in NY, we're winning with a good cast (hypothetically)... why not sign here for his twilight years on the cheap?

This team has a lot of potential under a new coach.

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 12:44 AM
Asham played 37 games for Tortorella.

MJL80
07-23-2013, 06:02 AM
Gaborik would have flourished under AV. His contract is up soon so who is to say we don't get him back?

His contract runs up, there's no Tortorella in NY, we're winning with a good cast (hypothetically)... why not sign here for his twilight years on the cheap?

This team has a lot of potential under a new coach.

I honestly hope he does... he was a great teammate IMO and one of my favorites

bsi
07-23-2013, 12:46 PM
Asham played 37 games for Tortorella.

That's 37 more than anyone in here.

bsi
07-23-2013, 12:49 PM
Gaborik would have flourished under AV. His contract is up soon so who is to say we don't get him back?

His contract runs up, there's no Tortorella in NY, we're winning with a good cast (hypothetically)... why not sign here for his twilight years on the cheap?

This team has a lot of potential under a new coach.

Sadly there's no such thing as getting someone cheap anymore. Someone will give Gaborik 6+ a year.

nyr2002nyr
07-23-2013, 01:33 PM
That's 37 more than anyone in here.


:clap:

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 02:07 PM
That's 37 more than anyone in here.

Why is it that none of of the good players that have played on the team over the past several have put their names on any comments? This guy wasn't even on the team last year.

I'm sure he'll be pumped playing on a line that takes defensive zone faceoffs all season.

nyr2002nyr
07-23-2013, 02:14 PM
Why is it that none of of the good players that have played on the team over the past several have put their names on any comments? This guy wasn't even on the team last year.

I'm sure he'll be pumped playing on a line that takes defensive zone faceoffs all season.

Better ? why would they put their names on the comments? He is gone either way no need to rub salt in the wound but Ashman confirmed what we already knew Torts lost that locker room

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 02:25 PM
Better ? why would they put their names on the comments? He is gone either way no need to rub salt in the wound but Ashman confirmed what we already knew Torts lost that locker room

He didn't confirm squat. He said, "the guys seem to get fed up with all the screaming and stuff." He wasn't on the team last year, he barely knows the locker room.

There were 29 other frustrated locker rooms this season and most coaches yell at their players.

nyr2002nyr
07-23-2013, 02:35 PM
He didn't confirm squat. He said, "the guys seem to get fed up with all the screaming and stuff." He wasn't on the team last year, he barely knows the locker room.

There were 29 other frustrated locker rooms this season and most coaches yell at their players.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Big difference between being frustrated and your team not wanting to play for you

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 02:38 PM
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Big difference between being frustrated and your team not wanting to play for you

Big difference between players that "seem" to be fed up with the yelling, an opinion from one fourth liner that's been there for 37 games, and completely losing the locker room...

nyr2002nyr
07-23-2013, 02:43 PM
Big difference between players that "seem" to be fed up with the yelling, an opinion from one fourth liner that's been there for 37 games, and completely losing the locker room...

He was in the locker room and around the players he knows more then we do

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 02:50 PM
He was in the locker room and around the players he knows more then we do

And he never says Torts lost the room. He said it "seemed" that some of the players were fed up with the yelling.

nyr2002nyr
07-23-2013, 03:11 PM
And he never says Torts lost the room. He said it "seemed" that some of the players were fed up with the yelling.

It says enough. He couldn't get through to his players with his antics anymore and they were tired of it

Bueller Bueller Bueller????

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 03:23 PM
It says enough. He couldn't get through to his players with his antics anymore and they were tired of it

Bueller Bueller Bueller????

Did he say that Torts couldn't get through to him? I must have missed that part.


but when you're in the same spot for a certain amount of years and you have the same players

Like a half of a season, that's how long Asham's been around the team.

bsi
07-23-2013, 03:44 PM
He didn't confirm squat. He said, "the guys seem to get fed up with all the screaming and stuff." He wasn't on the team last year, he barely knows the locker room.

There were 29 other frustrated locker rooms this season and most coaches yell at their players.

He was a part of the team the whole year even if he missed 7 games with injury. I don't even know why there's a question of him knowing what was going on better than someone watching at home on tv. The day after the players meetings Tortorella gets canned, before that day Tortorella was talking about what he was going to do next year. I don't think it's a stretch to think that some key players didn't want him back, and if they didn't want him back he lost atleast those parts of the locker room. I've always stuck up for Torts, I wasn't impressed with the effort of the players but I always said that if he lost the dressingroom he had to go. I thought his system could be effective if executed with enthusiasm but if players aren't putting the necessary effort into it because they are annoyed at the coach then unfortunately you can't fire half your team and the coach has to go. Asham put it more blunt than did Lundqvist but the message was similar. I really don't think Hank was resigning here next season if Tortorella was here. The biggest telling tale is how well the new players played when they arrived as they hadn't been here long enough to get sick of it. He ran his course here is all. But as they say opinions are like a wholes everyones got one and that's mine haha.

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 03:50 PM
He was a part of the team the whole year even if he missed 7 games with injury. I don't even know why there's a question of him knowing what was going on better than someone watching at home on tv. The day after the players meetings Tortorella gets canned, before that day Tortorella was talking about what he was going to do next year. I don't think it's a stretch to think that some key players didn't want him back, and if they didn't want him back he lost atleast those parts of the locker room. I've always stuck up for Torts, I wasn't impressed with the effort of the players but I always said that if he lost the dressingroom he had to go. I thought his system could be effective if executed with enthusiasm but if players aren't putting the necessary effort into it because they are annoyed at the coach then unfortunately you can't fire half your team and the coach has to go. Asham put it more blunt than did Lundqvist but the message was similar. I really don't think Hank was resigning here next season if Tortorella was here. The biggest telling tale is how well the new players played when they arrived as they hadn't been here long enough to get sick of it. He ran his course here is all. But as they say opinions are like a wholes everyones got one and that's mine haha.

All Lunqvist said was that he didn't have anything to do with the firing...


“I know there is some speculation regarding Torts being fired, but let’s be clear on one thing,” Lundqvist said via an e-mail on Wednesday that contained his first comments on the matter. “It’s not my call who the coach should be for the New York Rangers.

“I would never put pressure on the management on decisions like that. I’m just a player. My focus is to play the game and do the best I can on the ice. Whatever [happens] off the ice, I leave to our great staff we have working for this club.”

bsi
07-23-2013, 04:19 PM
All Lunqvist said was that he didn't have anything to do with the firing...

It wasn't that part I was talking about it was when he hesitated when asked if he'd be resigning, something I never thought he'd do. I think it would be safe to say that Gaborik, Richards, DelZotto,and possibly Nash weren't too fond of Tortorella by the end either, whether they were justified in that or not I don't know but I'm pretty sure Lundqvist, Nash, Richards and DelZotto didn't give their thumbs up for Tortorella returning. Anyway I really don't want to be dragging this dead horse out again so I'm out of this conversation ahhaha.

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 04:27 PM
It wasn't that part I was talking about it was when he hesitated when asked if he'd be resigning, something I never thought he'd do. I think it would be safe to say that Gaborik, Richards, DelZotto,and possibly Nash weren't too fond of Tortorella by the end either, whether they were justified in that or not I don't know but I'm pretty sure Lundqvist, Nash, Richards and DelZotto didn't give their thumbs up for Tortorella returning. Anyway I really don't want to be dragging this dead horse out again so I'm out of this conversation ahhaha.

We've been through this before. You can't spin "I had a great time here" into "I'm going to leave because of the coach." Especially after he comes out and says the complete opposite.

Nash had arguably the best season of his career. What was his beef with the coach?

Richards sucked. He's been a huge disapointment and a giant waste of money.

The Del Zotto-Girardi pairing sucked in Boston series. Maybe that led to some of Lundqvist's frustrations?

I mean, I can make wild speculations, too.

bsi
07-23-2013, 05:57 PM
We've been through this before. You can't spin "I had a great time here" into "I'm going to leave because of the coach." Especially after he comes out and says the complete opposite.

Nash had arguably the best season of his career. What was his beef with the coach?

Richards sucked. He's been a huge disapointment and a giant waste of money.

The Del Zotto-Girardi pairing sucked in Boston series. Maybe that led to some of Lundqvist's frustrations?

I mean, I can make wild speculations, too.

None of those guys got canned after the players meetings. A day after Tortorella sat on live tv and talked about what he planned on doing with the Rangers the next year he was canned, is there any confusion as to what happened? If they were going to fire him why wait until the meetings? Whatever was said during those meetings didn't do anything to help Tortorella in NY.

BTW our run to the Conference finals wouldn't have started the other year without Richards. 15pts in 20 games and a few huge goals to keep us alive wasn't exactly a huge waste of money. Even at the end of this regular season he was playing well and helped get us into playoffs. He had a bad playoffs, one bad playoffs in a shortened season does not make him a bad player. Without this playoff he's close to a point a game guy in playoffs. He had an off year and a bad playoffs. As for the DelZotto-Girardi pairing they once again played way too much, the same thing happened to them in the New Jersey series the year before, I predicted it would happen if they didn't get a reliable player to fill in some minutes on the back end or to have the coach put some trust in the guys he had instead of them playing over 25 mins a game all season and playoffs, and ofcourse losing Staal didn't help that either. I'm not saying Brad Richards is worth the money for sure, I'm just not ready to crucify him for last year.
Again this horse is dead, we have a new coach, new philosophy and hopefully Richards, DelZotto, Staal and Girardi are able to be better and healthy this year.

fingerbang
07-23-2013, 06:10 PM
None of those guys got canned after the players meetings. A day after Tortorella sat on live tv and talked about what he planned on doing with the Rangers the next year he was canned, is there any confusion as to what happened? If they were going to fire him why wait until the meetings? Whatever was said during those meetings didn't do anything to help Tortorella in NY.

BTW our run to the Conference finals wouldn't have started the other year without Richards. 15pts in 20 games and a few huge goals to keep us alive wasn't exactly a huge waste of money. Even at the end of this regular season he was playing well and helped get us into playoffs. He had a bad playoffs, one bad playoffs in a shortened season does not make him a bad player. Without this playoff he's close to a point a game guy in playoffs. He had an off year and a bad playoffs. As for the DelZotto-Girardi pairing they once again played way too much, the same thing happened to them in the New Jersey series the year before, I predicted it would happen if they didn't get a reliable player to fill in some minutes on the back end or to have the coach put some trust in the guys he had instead of them playing over 25 mins a game all season and playoffs, and ofcourse losing Staal didn't help that either.

Again this horse is dead, we have a new coach, new philosophy and hopefully Richards, DelZotto, Staal and Girardi are able to be better and healthy this year.

It's bogus that Richards gets credit for accumulating points down the stretch when the Rangers were destroying teams while at the same time Tortorella gets credit for "losing the locker room."

Brad Richards has 16 playoff points in 30 games as a Ranger and he's minus 5. He's had two really great wingers to work with and he still couldn't score at a ppg pace.

Del Zotto wasn't making all those stupid decisions because of fatigue. People say, "He's afraid to make mistakes because of Torts." Del Zotto skated around like there was a bomb in his helmet that would go off if he wasn't constantly joining the rush.

bsi
07-23-2013, 10:24 PM
It's bogus that Richards gets credit for accumulating points down the stretch when the Rangers were destroying teams while at the same time Tortorella gets credit for "losing the locker room."

Brad Richards has 16 playoff points in 30 games as a Ranger and he's minus 5. He's had two really great wingers to work with and he still couldn't score at a ppg pace.

Del Zotto wasn't making all those stupid decisions because of fatigue. People say, "He's afraid to make mistakes because of Torts." Del Zotto skated around like there was a bomb in his helmet that would go off if he wasn't constantly joining the rush.

I don't really know how it can be more obvious that Tortorella lost the locker room unless he came out and told you himself really. I'm done with all this Tortorella talk because he's not a factor here going forward, he's gone, and while I appreciate what he did with some players I dislike him for what he did with others. He's gone, we have a new coach with a full staff who will do their best to get this team to the finals and I hope they succeed, I won't be looking back at Tortorella anymore, it's a new year.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-23-2013, 10:37 PM
I don't really know how it can be more obvious that Tortorella lost the locker room unless he came out and told you himself really. I'm done with all this Tortorella talk because he's not a factor here going forward, he's gone, and while I appreciate what he did with some players I dislike him for what he did with others. He's gone, we have a new coach with a full staff who will do their best to get this team to the finals and I hope they succeed, I won't be looking back at Tortorella anymore, it's a new year.

You seem to have kept an open mind about the situation which is rare on the internet. Most people including myself dig in hard once they take a firm position about a player or coach online. I respect that you were able to look at the evidence and change your mind over the last 7 months or so. I really need to be willing to do that more often. Sometimes I have been too stubborn to accept some facts over the years with various players/coaches. :)

Redfish
07-23-2013, 11:43 PM
Again, whenever Tortorella's firing is discussed, I rarely see reference to player accountability. In my view, Tortorella was as prepared as he could be for this team to make a run for the Cup; and the players simply were NOT! Saying they were fed up with his antics is a cop-out and I have personally lost a great deal of respect for Lundqvist and Callahan.

The players got their wish: a less demanding, offensive-oriented coach, which, according to press reports, will allow them to smile in the locker-room again. What a joke....what counts is Wins and Losses, especially during the playoffs, and I doubt this team ever makes it the conference finals under AV.

Small prediction: come November when this team is struggling, Ranger fans will be whining about the coach and GM.

nyr2002nyr
07-24-2013, 12:36 AM
You seem to have kept an open mind about the situation which is rare on the internet. Most people including myself dig in hard once they take a firm position about a player or coach online. I respect that you were able to look at the evidence and change your mind over the last 7 months or so. I really need to be willing to do that more often. Sometimes I have been too stubborn to accept some facts over the years with various players/coaches. :)

All of us were on his side at the get go. But as the season wore on and situations were happening it was clear to 99.9% of fans he lost the room. Bsi was one if those guys that stood with him most of the way and really did weigh all the evidence at the end before he made his judgement. Some of us jumped ship a little but sooner but all in all the end result was the same. They didn't want to play for him.

metswon69
07-24-2013, 02:35 AM
All of us were on his side at the get go. But as the season wore on and situations were happening it was clear to 99.9% of fans he lost the room. Bsi was one if those guys that stood with him most of the way and really did weigh all the evidence at the end before he made his judgement. Some of us jumped ship a little but sooner but all in all the end result was the same. They didn't want to play for him.

Yeah i mean Asham had the pulse of the locker room having been there most of last season. More so than anyone here can attest to. He was speaking from experience and interaction with the other players who had been there for multiple seasons under Torts. We know that all coaches yell and are disciplinarians in their own way but it seems from various play during the season, how terribly inconsistent they were before the trade, and some of the comments after the season, that this team needed a new voice. Hopefully it will translate to some of their key guys playing better offensively and allow for some of their younger players like Kreider to get some serious ice time in a more conducive system putting the puck in the net.

We'll see but this argument is really beating a dead horse like Bsi mentioned. AV is here, Torts is in Vancouver now and that's that.

That said, AV coached some pretty good defensive hockey teams in Vancouver that didn't sacrifice offense to some extent because of it. I mean look how many times they were 1st in the NHL in GA, seems to be Lundqvist and this defense won't suffer to the extent that is perceived.

Rangers in 7
07-24-2013, 10:58 AM
the defense wont suffer much at all....if you look at a lot of goals hank gave up last year they were deflections, which will be something that will happen less this upcoming season with less players trying to block shots....we have hank which is one of the best goalies in the world to stop pucks, not to mention with more puck possession hank will see less shots and hopefully keep him fresh

bsi
07-24-2013, 11:44 AM
the defense wont suffer much at all....if you look at a lot of goals hank gave up last year they were deflections, which will be something that will happen less this upcoming season with less players trying to block shots....we have hank which is one of the best goalies in the world to stop pucks, not to mention with more puck possession hank will see less shots and hopefully keep him fresh

Plus with the additon of Moore last year and a healthy Staal our D is going to be much better anyway, as well Stralman seemed to get better last year. Vigneault doesn't sacrifice D for offense, his teams play both ways with the license to be creative offensively.

Rangers in 7
07-24-2013, 12:00 PM
the major difference between av and torts is puck possession, no more of this crap dump and change **** with torts that was horrible to watch

bsi
07-24-2013, 12:20 PM
the major difference between av and torts is puck possession, no more of this crap dump and change **** with torts that was horrible to watch

Don't get too comfortable with that haha...with AV he uses those bottom two lines as more checking lines so while our top two lines will be given the go the others are going to be playing a bit Tortorella-esque but I'll take that. I'll be just happy to see our wingers closer to the opposing D-men.

fingerbang
07-24-2013, 02:23 PM
I don't really know how it can be more obvious that Tortorella lost the locker room unless he came out and told you himself really. I'm done with all this Tortorella talk because he's not a factor here going forward, he's gone, and while I appreciate what he did with some players I dislike him for what he did with others. He's gone, we have a new coach with a full staff who will do their best to get this team to the finals and I hope they succeed, I won't be looking back at Tortorella anymore, it's a new year.

The only thing that's obvious is that everyone turned on the coach when the Bruin series was over. They played fine down the stretch and during the playoffs.

fingerbang
07-24-2013, 02:25 PM
90 percent of this board probably predicted the Rangers to beat the Bruins but when it didn't work out the way they expected it was, "Oh, I just knew he lost the locker room."

fingerbang
07-24-2013, 02:37 PM
I’m sure some of you have recently heard John Tortorella describe the Rangers as a “defense-first” team. Obviously this is causing some confusion among our fanbase, since most people tend to understand the term as a way of describing neutral zone trap teams (e.g., Yotes, Bruins, Devils back in the day).

When Tortorella says defense first, he is referring to wanting his players to be defensively responsible, hard on the backcheck and aggressive on the forecheck. Yes, forechecking is part of defense because you don’t have the puck. These are consistent themes for most hockey clubs.

This is a very different definition than the “defense first” label the media communicates. They often use this term against Torts and blame it for stifling the team’s offense. Except, lack of offense isn’t caused by a system, it is the result when the system isn’t executed.

Look, most members of the media can’t break down the x’s and o’s. Instead, they’ll throw vague terms at you like “run & gun”, “defense-first”, or “not a 60 minute effort”, etc. because it is a quick way to label a team without explaining the details. If you wish to understand the game’s details beyond vague labels, I humbly suggest you read all of our hockey systems coverage.

With that out of the way, let’s focus on what kind of system John Tortorella actually employs.


Forechecking

2-1-2

The Blueshirts generate most of their 5-on-5 offense from an aggressive 2-1-2 forecheck (shown above) and transitional offense, meaning offense generated from the rush. The 2-1-2 forecheck relies on skating, puck pressure, and pursuit from all five skaters. This system helps produce chances and puck possession (which the Rangers have been leaders in recent seasons), but it’s on the players to find twine.

Defensive oriented teams, or conservative teams, generally do not send two or three forwards in deep after the puck. Hybrid trap teams will sometimes forecheck aggressively, but generally will do so only until they have a lead. Once they have the lead, they tend to drop guys back and plug up the neutral zone in those 1-4 or 1-3-1 formations. This is a major tactical difference between those who always encourage puck pursuit in the offensive zone (think Torts or Bylsma) and those who do not (think Hitchcock or Lemaire).

Defensemen Joining The Play

More passive teams also typically do not give their offensive defensemen free reign to pinch, forecheck, or join the rush. They are much more conservative with their blueliners. The Rangers are the opposite. Torts certainly wants his defensemen to get involved offensively, so long as someone covers them. If you don’t believe that, then you haven’t ever watched Michael Del Zotto. He is as aggressive as it gets.

Defensive Zone Strategy

LZCThe defensive zone is where things get a little muddled when it comes to labeling a team. Up until a few year years ago, trapping teams were really the only teams who collapsed in front of their net and blocked shots. More aggressive teams sent two forwards towards the blueline, playing man-on-man coverage, or would let one forward cherry-pick in the neutral zone.

Times have changed and defensive zone play has gotten more sophisticated. In today’s NHL, more and more teams are collapsing to the net and blocking shots regardless of their overall forechecking strategy. Point in case, during the 2001-02 season 10 teams blocked over a 1,000 shots. Last season all but two teams blocked over 1,000 shots.

The media likes to use this strategy and blame it for stifling offensive ability, but the reality is a number of high scoring teams play the low zone collapse. The Capitals, Blackhawks, Bruins, and Penguins have all used this strategy in recent seasons and they have no problems scoring goals.

There are other defensive zone strategies, such as the overload, man-on-man, etc., but the low zone collapse is probably one of the more employed strategies in the NHL. The Rangers mostly use the low zone collapse, but will overload on occasion depending on certain game situations.

Overall, there’s a lot of misinformation out there about Torts’ systems. Some of it is because the media just doesn’t get a lot of this stuff. Some of it is because the media has such a bad relationship with John, they make no effort to understand and defend his tactics. That’s what we’re here for folks.

http://www.blueseatblogs.com/2012/02/21/draft/

That's a good article that deviates from the "Tortorella plays safe is/isn't death" B.S.

Rangers in 7
07-24-2013, 04:40 PM
the truth is the biggest problem i had with torts was puck possession, because we had none, i cant tell you how many times the rangers would play in their own zone, finally get the puck, make it to the red line and then dump the puck and change, most of the damn time they didnt even forecheck!!!! they would ****ing change all the time instead of possessing the puck, changing, then moving up the ice with the puck

SLY WILLIAMS
07-24-2013, 04:45 PM
the truth is the biggest problem i had with torts was puck possession, because we had none, i cant tell you how many times the rangers would play in their own zone, finally get the puck, make it to the red line and then dump the puck and change, most of the damn time they didnt even forecheck!!!! they would ****ing change all the time instead of possessing the puck, changing, then moving up the ice with the puck

Somebody (I think it may have been Herb Brooks) once said something that I kind of remember. Why fight so hard to get the puck to just throw it away once you get it?

There are times where dump and chase is the only option based on various situation but I prefer to hold on to possession as much as possible as well.

fingerbang
07-24-2013, 04:54 PM
The Rangers were rated as a good puck possession team. They talk about it in the article I posted. There's also this: http://www.fearthefin.com/2013/4/28/4278234/week-14-year-end-and-post-deadline-saf-fenclose-2013-nhl-playoffs-stanley-cup

Rangers in 7
07-24-2013, 04:55 PM
Somebody (I think it may have been Herb Brooks) once said something that I kind of remember. Why fight so hard to get the puck to just throw it away once you get it?

There are times where dump and chase is the only option based on various situation but I prefer to hold on to possession as much as possible as well.

dump and chase can be an effective option no doubt, but its not the be all end all that it was with torts, our team is much more talented then i think torts gave them credit for

bsi
07-24-2013, 06:55 PM
http://www.blueseatblogs.com/2012/02/21/draft/

That's a good article that deviates from the "Tortorella plays safe is/isn't death" B.S.

My biggest problem was our wingers were down too low, gave the other teams D too much time to keep it in and do something with it. It also left our wingers too low to get a pass and move it out, we never generated a decent breakout because of this and the puck continued to come back in our end. Other than that I had no problem with the system really. My only concern, as it always was even when I was defending him, was that that the players will play that system and listen to the yelling as long as they are winning and seeing results. When that changes and the players no longer believe in that system and the coach continues to push it upon them they'll start to tune out. The GM did everything he could for Tortorella, trading away Dubinsky and getting Rick Nash and even trading his 40 goal scorer who had become rattled on the ice, he couldn't do any more for him, trading the whole team wasn't in the cards so if there's players who don't believe in the coach the GM does the easy thing and replaces the coach. Tortorella has a part in that as well as he was reluctant to change for his new look team using the same system he used the previous year with a team that was different in it's areas of ability. As I said before he's a good coach but as with most emotional coaches they have a certain time frame in which to complete their goal before the players tune out, coaches like Ruff and Vigneault are more likely to be liked by the players and if your players are happy then they'll want to play for you. When Dubinsky, Anisimov, Gaborik and Prust all left it took some of the heart and friendship out of the locker room, something I think maybe the players blamed Tortorella for it, and the demotion of Richards was probably the last straw for the players.
Tortorella was probably the best thing to happen to this team in the time he was here, he helped bring this team from a team that drags in free agents and trades draftpicks to a team that can play the players it drafts and be successful, having said that it was time to go in a different direction. I don't doubt he'll have a good year in Vancouver, he wasn't going to do that in NY so it was win win for everyone I think. I doubt Tortorella is really upset at being a coach in Vancouver, and the fact he didn't stay unemployed long shows he's still considered a good coach in the league. As he said himself, he'll learn from his mistakes and be better for it.

Rangers in 7
07-25-2013, 02:43 PM
torts had a shelf life and i think his time was just over with us, i do agree that he will be successful in vancouver but he wont win a cup, unless he changes his system i just dont see it working there

itsmillertime
07-28-2013, 07:10 AM
Torts was an incompetent buffoon at the end. He was the only coach in the league that refused to keep lines together. Thus, nobody ever developed any chemistry.

Redfish
07-28-2013, 01:49 PM
Torts was an incompetent buffoon at the end. He was the only coach in the league that refused to keep lines together. Thus, nobody ever developed any chemistry.

An incompetent buffoon who had more success with each team he coached than the Rangers current coach. AV will make nice with the reporters; maybe the players will smile more often but, at the end of the day, this team has taken a step backward. We are back to being a perennial playoff bubble team, thanks to Sather. It was really his shelf life that ended, not the coach's.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Alain Vigneault Career
Regular Season: .583
Playoffs: .500

John Tortorella Career
Regular Season: .541
Playoffs: .494

bsi
07-28-2013, 04:31 PM
An incompetent buffoon who had more success with each team he coached than the Rangers current coach. AV will make nice with the reporters; maybe the players will smile more often but, at the end of the day, this team has taken a step backward. We are back to being a perennial playoff bubble team, thanks to Sather. It was really his shelf life that ended, not the coach's.

The team took a step backwards when the GM traded players to suit the coach instead of the coach changing what he was doing. Losing a 40 goal scorer isn't going to help us next year at all.

Redfish
07-28-2013, 05:02 PM
Alain Vigneault Career
Regular Season: .583
Playoffs: .500

John Tortorella Career
Regular Season: .541
Playoffs: .494

Fair point - obviously a Stanley Cup w/TB and conference finals with the Rangers do mean something. I am just admittedly disappointed with Sather still being GM; lack of player accountability last season; and the firing of one of our more successful coaches in recent history. It wasn't long ago we suffered under the reign of Renney and Tortorella deserves significant credit for bringing this organization back to top tier respect.

And, yes, I am not impressed with AV; just don't see anything special other than being a high quality individual.

bsi
07-28-2013, 05:20 PM
Fair point - obviously a Stanley Cup w/TB and conference finals with the Rangers do mean something. I am just admittedly disappointed with Sather still being GM; lack of player accountability last season; and the firing of one of our more successful coaches in recent history. It wasn't long ago we suffered under the reign of Renney and Tortorella deserves significant credit for bringing this organization back to top tier respect.

And, yes, I am not impressed with AV; just don't see anything special other than being a high quality individual.

Vigneault is a good coach, he's been nominated for the Jack Adams 3 times I that's not by accident.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-28-2013, 05:21 PM
Redfish I hope AV surprises you in a good way. He came in first place 6 of the last 7 years. He was coach of a team that went to the 7th game of the cup. That was with a shaky goalie while Tim Thomas was amazing for the Bruins.

Redfish
07-28-2013, 08:11 PM
Redfish I hope AV surprises you in a good way. He came in first place 6 of the last 7 years. He was coach of a team that went to the 7th game of the cup. That was with a shaky goalie while Tim Thomas was amazing for the Bruins.

I hope so as well, Sly. Yet, if one strips out his 2010-2011 season which saw his team go to game #7 of the Stanley Cup, it has been a rather mediocre career for his other 10 seasons. First place finishes are great for ticket sales, but and abundance of first and second round playoff exits with the talent his teams have had is what concerns me.

Time will tell, I suppose, and I hope he surprises me.

nyr2002nyr
07-29-2013, 12:37 AM
Holy cow this is still going on. I was laid up since rotator cuff surgery and hadnt logged on.

Yankee Clipper
07-29-2013, 02:46 PM
Redfish I hope AV surprises you in a good way. He came in first place 6 of the last 7 years. He was coach of a team that went to the 7th game of the cup. That was with a shaky goalie while Tim Thomas was amazing for the Bruins.

:nod: