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jeter 2
07-20-2013, 05:45 PM
My vote is for Kobe-Shaq. I don't think Miami has anyone that can stop Shaq.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-20-2013, 05:48 PM
Kobe and Shaq in a landslide.

TrueFan420
07-20-2013, 05:52 PM
You take Kobe out and the heat would still lose. Shaq was a beast and Miami has nobody that could handle him.

Also don't call the heat the three amigos. They aren't cool like that. That movie is a classic.

More-Than-Most
07-20-2013, 05:59 PM
Shaq with any top 10 player would dominate. Sorry but Shaq was a force of Nature...Shaq/Kobe easily

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 06:01 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/ShaqHoldingThings/comments/1ib7yd/shaq_carrying_kobe/

This should answer your question

bucketss
07-20-2013, 06:03 PM
it would be funny seeing bosh trying to guard shaq... dude dropped 43 on bosh when he was like 40 yrs old LOL!!

Bostonjorge
07-20-2013, 06:12 PM
Shaq and kobe. Kobe can check lebron and even score 60 if he wanted. Shaq to big and strong for Miami.

carlthack
07-20-2013, 06:16 PM
Are you kidding? Chevy Chase, Martin Short and Steve Martin would mop the floor with Kobe and Shaq.

ManRam
07-20-2013, 06:16 PM
Shaq is just such a huge mismatch. It's not as simple as just those two vs. the Heat's 3...and the supporting casts play a role, but it's hard for me to get past the Shaq thing. Talent-wise it's really close.

This isn't an indictment on any of these players or a backhanded way to say one group is better than the other...it's just about Shaq being unmatched for.

I'm sure if prime Shaq were around the Heat would have a much better defensive true center...even if it was just someone like Omer Asik. Right now there just isn't any of them to worry about.

FYL_McVeezy
07-20-2013, 06:17 PM
Miami always throws LBJ on the best player 1-4 when all else fails and he always delivers on defense....

You can't throw LBJ on Shaq....

Thus I give LA the nod here....

numba1CHANGsta
07-20-2013, 06:22 PM
Shaq and Kobe easily, heck, Parker-Manu-Duncan from the mid 2000's would have beaten the Heat.

ElChinoLatino
07-20-2013, 06:29 PM
Shaq alone would bulldoze his way to the rim, there hasn't been someone as dominant as him during that era.

JLynn943
07-20-2013, 06:33 PM
Shaq would be unstoppable, but so would one of either Wade or LeBron. Yet, if they used hack-a-Shaq, I don't see why the Heat's trio couldn't win. That'd be enough I think to tip the scales in their favor.

Bookey
07-20-2013, 06:35 PM
During their title runs Shaq and Kobe easy. If every player was in their prime it's not an argument, Shaq and Kobe again. Both would drop at least 40 a piece in this match-up

Rivera
07-20-2013, 06:36 PM
Did you see what Roy Hilbert was doing? Imagine shaq. He's gotta double it at least as long as Kobe stays in check and don't get jealous hahaha (I kid I kid)

John Walls Era
07-20-2013, 06:38 PM
shaq

Hardaway Here
07-20-2013, 06:46 PM
No argument can be made here Shaq was that dominant

bucketss
07-20-2013, 06:47 PM
Shaq and kobe. Kobe can check lebron and even score 60 if he wanted. Shaq to big and strong for Miami.

:laugh:

JerseyPalahniuk
07-20-2013, 07:45 PM
3 on 2? I got the Amigos.

Dade County
07-20-2013, 07:54 PM
This is easy...

HEAT would win a series between a shaq/Kobe team. The HEAT could not stop shaq when he is able to get on to the court, what this means is that, Wade & Lbj would get Shaq into foul trouble all series long, and all the HEAT have to do, is let young Kobe be Kobe; shoot the ball Kobe, drive to the rim Kobe, jack up shots Kobe...

Shaq would get his easy, when he could actually be on the court; but the HEAT wouldn't have Bosh on him, so it's just a matter of time before a shaq/Kobe team just break down.

HEAT win in 6, the refs give the shaq/kobe team 1 win.

Hawkeye15
07-20-2013, 07:55 PM
if Shaq/Kobe were still around, there would be no LeBron/Wade/Bosh. Riley would have built the team different, Shaq was what you built to stop, or at least try to. Nowadays, there is no big man like that, so putting together the big 3 like Riley did works when you have LeBron.

raiderposting
07-20-2013, 07:56 PM
I think shaq would average 35 and 15 for the serious at worst. I can literally see 40 and 20.

Hawkeye15
07-20-2013, 07:56 PM
to answer the question in theory, the Shaq/Kobe tandem from 1999-2003 wins, but the Heat win any other year.

Backstabber
07-20-2013, 07:56 PM
Hack a Shaq

Backstabber
07-20-2013, 08:04 PM
But seriously Shaq/Kobe - no contest

jeter 2
07-20-2013, 08:23 PM
This is easy...

HEAT would win a series between a shaq/Kobe team. The HEAT could not stop shaq when he is able to get on to the court, what this means is that, Wade & Lbj would get Shaq into foul trouble all series long, and all the HEAT have to do, is let young Kobe be Kobe; shoot the ball Kobe, drive to the rim Kobe, jack up shots Kobe...

Shaq would get his easy, when he could actually be on the court; but the HEAT wouldn't have Bosh on him, so it's just a matter of time before a shaq/Kobe team just break down.

HEAT win in 6, the refs give the shaq/kobe team 1 win.

I think Wade and Lebron would get hurt if they tried to attack Shaq.

Dade County
07-20-2013, 08:47 PM
I think Wade and Lebron would get hurt if they tried to attack Shaq.

They would hit the floor very hard, but I think it would be wroth it; because if they can't get shaq into foul trouble, they would most likely lose the series.

I still see Shaq scoring 30 points a game.

ChildishGambino
07-20-2013, 08:49 PM
why do i always see people capitalize "heat"?

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 08:55 PM
Did you see what Roy Hilbert was doing? Imagine shaq. He's gotta double it at least as long as Kobe stays in check and don't get jealous hahaha (I kid I kid)

Lolol.

Lebron can guard most guys his size and maybe a little bigger. Shaq is 4 inches and 75 lbs bigger than Lebron. Asking Lebron to guard Shaq would be like asking Steve Nash to guard Lebron. The only people in the league right now who could even possibly slow him down would Dwight, Hibbert and maybe Gasol. Kobe from that time beats the current Wade as well. Lebron and Bosh could both double team Shaq and maybe it might help just a bit, but for the most part, I'd see them relying on hack-a-shaq for the most part.

The one weaknesses I could probably find, is with Bosh spacing the floor. But even then, I think Lebron could easily blow past his defender in that time and possibly have a shot close to the rim. Plus, the Lakers were relatively shallow past Shaq and Kobe. Their next leading scorer was Derek Fisher with about 10 ppg. I would honestly just throw Bosh, Haslem, Birdman, Anthony and whoever else at Shaq and just have Lebron guard Kobe. He's not shutting down Kobe, but he would definitely make him a bit more inefficient and drop maybe 2-4 ppg. Overall, I think I'd take the Lakers in 7.

thaShady
07-20-2013, 08:55 PM
You take Kobe out and the heat would still lose. Shaq was a beast and Miami has nobody that could handle him.

Also don't call the heat the three amigos. They aren't cool like that. That movie is a classic.


Everything in this post. Yes.

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 08:56 PM
why do i always see people capitalize "heat"?

First person noun.

I would think you'd learn it in elementary school.

But it's alright Troy, you're in community college anyways.

thaShady
07-20-2013, 08:58 PM
Pacers took them to 7 and they played them tough last year too. Shaq is 10x better than Hibbert and Kobe is 10x better than Paul George. The Zen Master is a 1,000,000,000,000x better coach than whats his face.

Lakers.

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 09:09 PM
Pacers took them to 7 and they played them tough last year too. Shaq is 10x better than Hibbert and Kobe is 10x better than Paul George. The Zen Master is a 1,000,000,000,000x better coach than whats his face.

Lakers.

But everyone else on the Pacers destroys the rest of the Lakers team. David West, George Hill and Lance Stephenson can actually contribute, whereas the third option in the Lakers teams was Derek Fisher at 10 ppg. Kobe and Shaq combined for basically 62% of the offensive load on that team which made it alright because, well they were Kobe and Shaq.

stawka
07-20-2013, 09:14 PM
Nice to see Shaq getting some love around here, it's usually a whole lot of hate

Anyway, defs Shaq/Kobe, primarily because Shaq would run a train on Miami's front court. As someone mentioned earlier, LeBron is put to defend the oppositions best player, he couldn't do it to Shaq

ChildishGambino
07-20-2013, 09:19 PM
i'm talking about seeing "HEAT" i phrased it wrong haha

AntiG
07-20-2013, 09:22 PM
Shaq + any above average #2 star + solid surrounding cast would probably run roughshod through Miami. You don't even need Kobe level. Miami doesn't have anyone that could defend Shaq in his prime, he'd probably score 40 points a night on them.

seikou8
07-20-2013, 09:23 PM
all of this yet we get lebron has best cast ever thread and he is coward type threads so which one is it once saw
wade ,bosh > shaq soooo

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 09:23 PM
i'm talking about seeing "HEAT" i phrased it wrong haha

Oh haha. Yeah I get you there, that ****'s just stupid.

Mcdoh
07-20-2013, 09:24 PM
Shaq and kobe..

AntiG
07-20-2013, 09:25 PM
all of this yet we get lebron has best cast ever thread and he is coward type threads so which one is it once saw
wade ,bosh > shaq soooo

Best cast ever = Celtics of the late 50s-late 60s. Almost the entire roster for the whole decade is in the HOF, and they got not 4, not 5, not 6, not even 7, but 11 titles.

kblo247
07-20-2013, 09:28 PM
Real question? What year are we talking about as it pertains to Fish, Horry, Fox, and Shaw? If we are talking 01, Fisher is getting in that *** from 3 as well to make kobe and Shaq a nightmare. He went 75% from 3 when they swept the spurs that year

kblo247
07-20-2013, 09:33 PM
Best cast ever = Celtics of the late 50s-late 60s. Almost the entire roster for the whole decade is in the HOF, and they got not 4, not 5, not 6, not even 7, but 11 titles.

The league was so damn small tho. Not diminishing the titles, just saying talent pool wasn't diluted like in the expansion driven league. Showtime Lakers, Bird Cs, and MJ Pip Bull 2nd 3peat are great modern depth examples.

kblo247
07-20-2013, 09:37 PM
But everyone else on the Pacers destroys the rest of the Lakers team. David West, George Hill and Lance Stephenson can actually contribute, whereas the third option in the Lakers teams was Derek Fisher at 10 ppg. Kobe and Shaq combined for basically 62% of the offensive load on that team which made it alright because, well they were Kobe and Shaq.

Fisher in 01 had one if the craziest shooting sprees out west there was and he wasn't being torched either. Fox never backed down. Horry and Shaw stayed ready. I'm a tight game make no mistake about those 4 who were the 4 role guys on that 3 peat team. They got stops, got Rebs, hit shots on the road or at home. They were clutch and what the lacked in talent they made up with pride and effort. West, Stephonson, Hill would earn anything they get and the la role players weren't just show up at home guys.

seikou8
07-20-2013, 09:40 PM
The league was so damn small tho. Not diminishing the titles, just saying talent pool wasn't diluted like in the expansion driven league. Showtime Lakers, Bird Cs, and MJ Pip Bull 2nd 3peat are great modern depth examples.

i agree those are best cast ever one more also shaq lakers;)

Storch
07-20-2013, 09:49 PM
Shaq and Kobe hands down. Shaq is by far my favorite NBA player of all time.

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 09:57 PM
Fisher in 01 had one if the craziest shooting sprees out west there was and he wasn't being torched either. Fox never backed down. Horry and Shaw stayed ready. I'm a tight game make no mistake about those 4 who were the 4 role guys on that 3 peat team. They got stops, got Rebs, hit shots on the road or at home. They were clutch and what the lacked in talent they made up with pride and effort. West, Stephonson, Hill would earn anything they get and the la role players weren't just show up at home guys.

I suppose I did exaggerate a bit too much on my last post, I apologize. But the point I was trying to get across was, I think the Pacers outside of PG/Hibbert are better than the Lakers outside of Shaq/Kobe.

bucketss
07-20-2013, 10:08 PM
do we take the current heat team or...

TheMightyHumph
07-20-2013, 10:15 PM
With Shaq in his 3 prime years, and Kobe nearing his prime, and still willing to play second fiddle, and the Zen Master as coach, I gotta go with the Lakers.

MTar786
07-20-2013, 10:22 PM
Shaq and Kobe any day!

2ndly to answer the question about Miami and LeBron having the best supporting cast. Yes they do and LeBron does.shaq had a young Kobe not in his prime. And a bunch of ok role players. LeBron has a top 3-4 sg of all time and a top 5pf in the league. Plus the deepest bench and supporting cast in the league. The best 3 point shooter of all time coming off the bench. It's actually dumb on my part to go on.

bucketss
07-20-2013, 10:42 PM
Shaq and Kobe any day!

2ndly to answer the question about Miami and LeBron having the best supporting cast. Yes they do and LeBron does.shaq had a young Kobe not in his prime. And a bunch of ok role players. LeBron has a top 3-4 sg of all time and a top 5pf in the league. Plus the deepest bench and supporting cast in the league. The best 3 point shooter of all time coming off the bench. It's actually dumb on my part to go on.

wade is not a top 5 player currently though, lebron only played 1 yr with a top 3 player before wade started fighting injuries, bosh doesn't play like a top 5 pf because it seems he can't get comf. with the system, the role players are NOT deep, they areshooters that feed of lebron, none of them can create for themselves, its not dumb to go on if you look at things objectively.

shaq prime >> bot bosh/wade today.

also allen doesn't even have the best 3p% on his own team, miller/battier have been better 3pt shooters this year, so saying "best 3 point shooter" is kind of point less,

jimm120
07-20-2013, 10:49 PM
I'm assuming you mean the Kobe-Shaq from 2001-2004

I'm assuming you mean the Lebron-Wade-Bosh of 2010-2013


if so, then Kobe-Shaq. They were THAT dominant...I mean, Shaq was that dominant and Kobe was at Lebron/Wade levels.

FOBolous
07-20-2013, 10:52 PM
Base on Miami's well documented struggle vs teams with traditional big man, I go with Shaq and Kobe. I mean...Roy freakin Hibbert gave Miami fits. Imagine what prime Shaq can do.

Jenceman
07-20-2013, 11:24 PM
Wouldn't even be a contest.

Jenceman
07-20-2013, 11:26 PM
:laugh:

You watch the playoffs during Kobe Shaq? Kobe was the best defender on the planet during those playoff runs.

RLundi
07-20-2013, 11:32 PM
Aren't the Three Amigos the Celtics, like in the SportsCenter commercial?

Bruno
07-20-2013, 11:32 PM
OH BABY

lets not forget the greatest roll players and the greatest coach of all time either.

Sadds The Gr8
07-20-2013, 11:34 PM
If Roy Hibbert was ******** on Miami, imagine what Shaq would do...

Slug3
07-21-2013, 12:07 AM
My vote is for Kobe-Shaq. I don't think Miami has anyone that can stop Shaq.

There was nobody at this time that could stop Shaq.

WadeCounty
07-21-2013, 12:26 AM
at first I originally thought shaq-kobe for sure, then as soon as I was going to finish that sentence I had to change my mind. Yes Shaq is definitely the difference maker that would demand a double team on the post but I can see shaq sitting out for a huge duration of the games with Lebron and Wade constantly attacking the paint getting him into foul trouble and not to mention the amount of floppers on our team can surely have Shaq sitting for a long time. I'd take my Heat in 6

Ethix11
07-21-2013, 12:48 AM
If Shaq was still a force, Heat wouldof just signed big bodies to throw at him and put him in foul trouble let alone LeBron and Wade. Also, Bosh may have been overlooked in favor of a Howard. So Heat.

koreancabbage
07-21-2013, 12:51 AM
Shaq-Kobe.

I see that even Miami fans can acknowledge that. but its not Kobe that scares everyone - its shaq. lets get that damn straight.

koreancabbage
07-21-2013, 12:52 AM
If Shaq was still a force, Heat wouldof just signed big bodies to throw at him and put him in foul trouble let alone LeBron and Wade. Also, Bosh may have been overlooked in favor of a Howard. So Heat.

lets not play ifs on top of ifs. just answer the damn question with what you have. (in terms of the teams construction right now)

kozelkid
07-21-2013, 01:16 AM
Aren't the Three Amigos the Celtics, like in the SportsCenter commercial?

That's what I figured. :shrug:

Either way, most here provided why it would definitely be Shaq/Kobe.

SportsFanatic10
07-21-2013, 01:36 AM
Shaq-Kobe.

I see that even Miami fans can acknowledge that. but its not Kobe that scares everyone - its shaq. lets get that damn straight.

yep, nobody on the heat can handle prime shaq. it would be complete domination by him.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 01:37 AM
Again, how do people not understand that Riley would not have put the big 3 together the same had a peak Shaq been in the league?

SportsFanatic10
07-21-2013, 01:39 AM
Again, how do people not understand that Riley would not have put the big 3 together the same had a peak Shaq been in the league?

this too, but for the sake of this thread shaq would just be too much.

FOBolous
07-21-2013, 01:44 AM
at first I originally thought shaq-kobe for sure, then as soon as I was going to finish that sentence I had to change my mind. Yes Shaq is definitely the difference maker that would demand a double team on the post but I can see shaq sitting out for a huge duration of the games with Lebron and Wade constantly attacking the paint getting him into foul trouble and not to mention the amount of floppers on our team can surely have Shaq sitting for a long time. I'd take my Heat in 6

so what do you base this assumption on? the fact that they do this to all the less talented centers who plays today that dominates the Heat? or the fact that players back then don't try to draw fouls?


that's sarcasm btw

Bostonjorge
07-21-2013, 02:04 AM
Shaq and kobe were both better players then any of the big 3 Miami players. Shaq and kobe also beat much better talent and dominated more in the playoffs.

SportsFanatic10
07-21-2013, 02:06 AM
Shaq and kobe were both better players then any of the big 3 Miami players. Shaq and kobe also beat much better talent and dominated more in the playoffs.

no

ArmLaker
07-21-2013, 03:38 AM
Look at my sig......nuff said

sturm
07-21-2013, 05:20 AM
Living in the past is only option for LAL fans. Poor thread!

naps
07-21-2013, 06:27 AM
Shaq and kobe were both better players then any of the big 3 Miami players. Shaq and kobe also beat much better talent and dominated more in the playoffs.

Are you KB-Pau-DH12 or C-Style? I am 99% certain you're a dupe.


Funny how people generalize. It's not a landslide as people are making it look like here. What happened to Lakers in 2003 and 2004? Yeah, they weren't unbeatable. Shaq would be unstoppable as long as he stayed on the floor but I am not sure how long he could stay there with both LeBron and Wade driving. Btw, who's guarding LeBron and Wade? You put Kobe on Wade and then what happens to LeBron? What about Bosh with his midrange game? And are we not supposed to talk about the role players? It gets even more interesting if we do.

If LA wins, it's ONLY because of prime Shaq. Sorry to disappoint the OP who wanted to hear a lot Kobe praises here.

astonmartin10
07-21-2013, 09:24 AM
I'm taking the Diesel and Kobe. Shaq was just unstoppable

HouRealCoach
07-21-2013, 10:02 AM
I voted Miami on accident but Shaq alone makes this lopsided

Bruins2012
07-21-2013, 10:17 AM
Shaq.

sunsfan88
07-21-2013, 10:35 AM
why do i always see people capitalize "heat"?


i'm talking about seeing "HEAT" i phrased it wrong haha

I was wondering this too. It must get f***ing annoying to constantly press caps lock or tab to capitalize and then to let it go after typing the name of your favorite team.

Is there that big of a difference between HEAT and Heat?

t_money25
07-21-2013, 10:49 AM
Shaq is definitely the deciding factor here. But let's not act as if prime Shaq was still around that the Heat would be built like this. I'd bet you wouldn't see many small teams at all.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 11:07 AM
You watch the playoffs during Kobe Shaq? Kobe was the best defender on the planet during those playoff runs.

sure but you think kobes skinny *** is gonna check lebron lolz, better throw rick fox on him and hope for the best.

jimm120
07-21-2013, 11:18 AM
Kobe was on Lebron/Wade Levels...and obviously Lebron/Wade take the advantage there because its 2 for 1. But Shaq...man, shaq...


Shaq should have continued playing. Just that he shouldn't have thought about playing full games anymore. Just play 25 minutes a game and skip games.

Kobes a Killer
07-21-2013, 11:31 AM
Living in the past is only option for LAL fans. Poor thread!

Just wait until one day Miami Heat fans are in the same boat and living in the past. The difference is the Lakers will again soon be winning championships, and Miami will soon be irrelevant. Dont worry maybe in 20-30 years Miami will win a couple more championships.

Bruno
07-21-2013, 12:55 PM
Are you KB-Pau-DH12 or C-Style? I am 99% certain you're a dupe.


Funny how people generalize. It's not a landslide as people are making it look like here. What happened to Lakers in 2003 and 2004? Yeah, they weren't unbeatable. Shaq would be unstoppable as long as he stayed on the floor but I am not sure how long he could stay there with both LeBron and Wade driving. Btw, who's guarding LeBron and Wade? You put Kobe on Wade and then what happens to LeBron? What about Bosh with his midrange game? And are we not supposed to talk about the role players? It gets even more interesting if we do.

If LA wins, it's ONLY because of prime Shaq. Sorry to disappoint the OP who wanted to hear a lot Kobe praises here.
were talking about peak defensive kobe here. he would have SHUT DOWN this older version of wade HARD.

we shouldnt be talking about the 2003 and 2004 Lakers, and shouldn't talking about the 2011 Heat. were should be talking about these teams as their championship incarnations.

BALLER R
07-21-2013, 12:57 PM
Am I the only one pissed off at the Shaq and Kobe thing. I mean together they could of easily won at least 2 more rings together.

tr3ymill3r
07-21-2013, 01:23 PM
Shaq by himself would have been just fine, if Bosh was in charge of guarding him.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 01:40 PM
Shaq and kobe were both better players then any of the big 3 Miami players. Shaq and kobe also beat much better talent and dominated more in the playoffs.

The best post in the thread.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 01:42 PM
For the last time, since I see nobody else bringing it up, Riley would have constructed a Bron-Wade-something else big 3, or split that money up front to help with Shaq. There would be no big 3 as currently constructed if Shaq is on the other end waiting for them.

To the hypothetical, if we just flew the Heat back in a time machine to 2000, I think the Shaq team would win, he is even more of a matchup problem in today's league than he was back then. The only chance they have is that LeBron/Wade could take turns slowing Kobe, forcing LA's role players to step up big time. But I just don't see much of an answer for Shaq. He would put forth a 35/20 type series.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 01:45 PM
For the last time, since I see nobody else bringing it up, Riley would have constructed a Bron-Wade-something else big 3, or split that money up front to help with Shaq. There would be no big 3 as currently constructed if Shaq is on the other end waiting for them.

To the hypothetical, if we just flew the Heat back in a time machine to 2000, I think the Shaq team would win, he is even more of a matchup problem in today's league than he was back then. The only chance they have is that LeBron/Wade could take turns slowing Kobe, forcing LA's role players to step up big time. But I just don't see much of an answer for Shaq. He would put forth a 35/20 type series.

So no matter which way you slice it, the answer is Shaq and Kobe.

JNA17
07-21-2013, 01:58 PM
But everyone else on the Pacers destroys the rest of the Lakers team. David West, George Hill and Lance Stephenson can actually contribute, whereas the third option in the Lakers teams was Derek Fisher at 10 ppg. Kobe and Shaq combined for basically 62% of the offensive load on that team which made it alright because, well they were Kobe and Shaq.

You need to do a little more research.

In the 2000 championship run, the third guy the lakers had was Glen Rice and he averaged 16 points on that team while also being a very capable 22+ scorer guy just like that year and before. In 2001, the Lakers acquired Isiah Rider to be a backup guy on the bench who just came off 19 or 20 PPG year as well as being able to average that in the years before that.

While offensively in the other years, Kobe and Shaq took the load offensively, lakers also had great defensive players in with young Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Horace Grant, A.C. green, Robert Horry, etc. they didn't JUST have two offensive power houses, they had a loaded defensive core as well that can make shots from the outside if Kobe and Shaq were being double and triple teamed.

So with that in mind, The Lakers would completely wipe the floor with the Heat and win in either a sweep or 5 games. Hack a Shaq could work if the Lakers didn't have Kobe. Hack a Shaq in this case would only put the other team in foul trouble thus guys like Kobe or shooters like Horry and Fisher getting more foul shots. If during the three peat run when almost every other team (especially the Spurs) tried this and it didn't work, how in the bloody hell would it work here?

Jtirado16
07-21-2013, 02:01 PM
This isn't really close Shaq is a straight monster, & would tear up Bosh & Birdman and anyone you throw on him. He was too dominant. Throw in one of the best players of all time in Kobe & this is a win for the Lakers by a lanslide

ElChinoLatino
07-21-2013, 02:03 PM
at first I originally thought shaq-kobe for sure, then as soon as I was going to finish that sentence I had to change my mind. Yes Shaq is definitely the difference maker that would demand a double team on the post but I can see shaq sitting out for a huge duration of the games with Lebron and Wade constantly attacking the paint getting him into foul trouble and not to mention the amount of floppers on our team can surely have Shaq sitting for a long time. I'd take my Heat in 6

People here don't seem to take this into consideration as much as they should.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 02:09 PM
So no matter which way you slice it, the answer is Shaq and Kobe.

no, instead of signing Bosh, you sign a Tyson Chandler for instance, and Ronny Turiaf to back him up. Basically, you have to fortify the middle defensively, which they haven't had to do in our modern reality.

A trio of Wade-LeBron-Bosh is not beating Shaq-Kobe from 99-03'. But a trio of Wade-LeBron-good defensive center/depth has a 50/50 shot. If not better.

lakerboy
07-21-2013, 02:23 PM
LOL. Did you see how Shaq and Kobe mopped the floor with the prime SAS?

These 3 stooges had to get lucky to beat them.

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 02:27 PM
Shaq and Frobe. More so cause of Shaq. Maybe if the Heat had a more defensive oriented PF and KD instead of Wade then they could possibly do enough damage from the outside to tilt the series in their favor.

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 02:30 PM
You need to do a little more research.

In the 2000 championship run, the third guy the lakers had was Glen Rice and he averaged 16 points on that team while also being a very capable 22+ scorer guy just like that year and before. In 2001, the Lakers acquired Isiah Rider to be a backup guy on the bench who just came off 19 or 20 PPG year as well as being able to average that in the years before that.

While offensively in the other years, Kobe and Shaq took the load offensively, lakers also had great defensive players in with young Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Horace Grant, A.C. green, Robert Horry, etc. they didn't JUST have two offensive power houses, they had a loaded defensive core as well that can make shots from the outside if Kobe and Shaq were being double and triple teamed.

So with that in mind, The Lakers would completely wipe the floor with the Heat and win in either a sweep or 5 games. Hack a Shaq could work if the Lakers didn't have Kobe. Hack a Shaq in this case would only put the other team in foul trouble thus guys like Kobe or shooters like Horry and Fisher getting more foul shots. If during the three peat run when almost every other team (especially the Spurs) tried this and it didn't work, how in the bloody hell would it work here?

He's talking about 2001

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 02:33 PM
were talking about peak defensive kobe here. he would have SHUT DOWN this older version of wade HARD.

we shouldnt be talking about the 2003 and 2004 Lakers, and shouldn't talking about the 2011 Heat. were should be talking about these teams as their championship incarnations.

Since this is a hypothetical thread, you'd have to assume that most here are considering Wade "healthy." So Wade's not getting shut down by nobody.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 02:36 PM
Since this is a hypothetical thread, you'd have to assume that most here are considering Wade "healthy." So Wade's not getting shut down by nobody.

on top of that, a Wade/Bron swing is killing Kobe's production overall, so as I have said multiple times here, and you commented above, if Riley simply dumped Bosh in the summer of 2010, knowing he had Shaq to deal with, and instead got himself some defensive players up front, this becomes a much more interesting matchup.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-21-2013, 02:48 PM
I would love seeing current lebron match up with that Kobe. That would be a fun battle. But unless Miami are allowed to play with 2 or 3 more guys to cover shaq, they'd lose.

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 02:49 PM
on top of that, a Wade/Bron swing is killing Kobe's production overall, so as I have said multiple times here, and you commented above, if Riley simply dumped Bosh in the summer of 2010, knowing he had Shaq to deal with, and instead got himself some defensive players up front, this becomes a much more interesting matchup.

Very true. it's not that the Heat don't have the talent to compete, it's just a match-up problem for them as they are currently constructed. Bosh having a vagina and Wade and Bron not being ideal running mates.

LoveMeOrHateMe
07-21-2013, 02:52 PM
You take Kobe out and the heat would still lose. Shaq was a beast and Miami has nobody that could handle him.

Also don't call the heat the three amigos. They aren't cool like that. That movie is a classic.

Lol no the lakers don't win without Kobe just like they wouldn't win without Shaq your ignorant for saying they would still win without Kobe

LoveMeOrHateMe
07-21-2013, 03:03 PM
Shaq-Kobe.

I see that even Miami fans can acknowledge that. but its not Kobe that scares everyone - its shaq. lets get that damn straight.

It's funny how heat fans are like the only ones that hate on Kobe lol... There would be no Shaq without Kobe or vice versa people say Shaq and any top 10 player would do the trick and a I say ******** no other top 10 player was better then Kobe defensively... Hell he was averaging like 28-7-7 during those playoffs in 01-02

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 03:11 PM
no, instead of signing Bosh, you sign a Tyson Chandler for instance, and Ronny Turiaf to back him up. Basically, you have to fortify the middle defensively, which they haven't had to do in our modern reality.

A trio of Wade-LeBron-Bosh is not beating Shaq-Kobe from 99-03'. But a trio of Wade-LeBron-good defensive center/depth has a 50/50 shot. If not better.

Oh please, no they don't. You're trying to come up with any little hypothetical situation to make Lebron seem like he's capable of taking on Kobe and Shaq. You can try and make up any situation you'd like, but no one besides Mj and Pip are taking down a prime Shaq/Kobe.

Tony_Starks
07-21-2013, 03:12 PM
Kobe and Shaq in a landslide.

All day everyday!

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 03:15 PM
Lol no the lakers don't win without Kobe just like they wouldn't win without Shaq your ignorant for saying they would still win without Kobe

Depends on the replacement.


It's funny how heat fans are like the only ones that hate on Kobe lol... There would be no Shaq without Kobe or vice versa people say Shaq and any top 10 player would do the trick and a I say ******** no other top 10 player was better then Kobe defensively... Hell he was averaging like 28-7-7 during those playoffs in 01-02

Um MJ?

Chronz
07-21-2013, 03:20 PM
Remember when an old Shaq dropped like 50 on Prime Chris Bosh?

amos1er
07-21-2013, 03:25 PM
Kobe and Shaq in a landslide.

Yup for sure. Even though Lebron did have more help Shaq and Kobe still were the best duo of all time going 15-1 in the playoffs against far greater competition. Sometimes it just comes down to chemistry and skill set more than forming a super team in a weaker era.

Good to see you back BTW.

Bruno
07-21-2013, 03:26 PM
on top of that, a Wade/Bron swing is killing Kobe's production overall, so as I have said multiple times here, and you commented above, if Riley simply dumped Bosh in the summer of 2010, knowing he had Shaq to deal with, and instead got himself some defensive players up front, this becomes a much more interesting matchup.

how are they gona be killing kobes production, theyre gona be too busy helping off for Shaq the entire series. and tyson chandler wouldn't have made a difference, you'd still have to double and triple team prime Shaq. you can't find a single contemporary center who could have guarded him with single coverage without getting absolutely dumped on. maybe hibbert could hold him to 30/14.

NYY 26 to 7
07-21-2013, 03:28 PM
For no other reason than Shaq was unstopable and the Heat have no answer for him.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 03:29 PM
Oh please, no they don't. You're trying to come up with any little hypothetical situation to make Lebron seem like he's capable of taking on Kobe and Shaq. You can try and make up any situation you'd like, but no one besides Mj and Pip are taking down a prime Shaq/Kobe.

Yup, Lebron needs a specific combination of the best 3pt snipers in the business and a top 5 and 15 super star for him to operate effectively. Put Kobe on any good team and they are instant contenders.

lakerboy
07-21-2013, 03:31 PM
Dude it is hard to **** with Kobe and Shaq. They are one of the best duos of all time. Also, that 2000 Lakers was special. It would be more than enough to beat the Miami Heat team that went into a 28 game streak in my opinion. The 2001 and 2002 were great but not as dominant as the 2000 team.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 03:35 PM
Yup for sure. Even though Lebron did have more help Shaq and Kobe still were the best duo of all time going 15-1 in the playoffs against far greater competition. Sometimes it just comes down to chemistry and skill set more than forming a super team in a weaker era.

Good to see you back BTW.

I love how everyone is saying that it's all Shaq. Kobe was just as important to that team, but this is PSD after all. The Heat could barely squeeze by the way past prime Spurs. I could only imagine what the early 00's Laker team would do to them.

Thanks. The Mods have an obvious agenda against me and to keep me from speaking the truth about the lord and savior Bron.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 03:35 PM
how are they gona be killing kobes production, theyre gona be too busy helping off for Shaq the entire series. and tyson chandler wouldn't have made a difference, you'd still have to double and triple team prime Shaq. you can't find a single contemporary center who could have guarded him with single coverage without getting absolutely dumped on. maybe hibbert could hold him to 30/14.

How dare you question the authority of Hawkeye.

koberulesall
07-21-2013, 03:37 PM
kobe and shaq would sweep them, shaq and kobe in there prime with any top 10 player at the time other than eachother would win in 6 or 7

koberulesall
07-21-2013, 03:41 PM
Dude it is hard to **** with Kobe and Shaq. They are one of the best duos of all time. Also, that 2000 Lakers was special. It would be more than enough to beat the Miami Heat team that went into a 28 game streak in my opinion. The 2001 and 2002 were great but not as dominant as the 2000 team.


the 2001 lakers lost 1 game in the playoffs 15-1, nobody will do that again NOBODY i think thats the special team you're talking about

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 03:42 PM
Yup, Lebron needs a specific combination of the best 3pt snipers in the business and a top 5 and 15 super star for him to operate effectively. Put Kobe on any good team and they are instant contenders.

Not to mention the Heat would be ring less these past couple years had they went up against good competition.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 03:48 PM
Just wanted to share an oldie but a goodie from the other day. You Lebronites should take note of this when you feel so foolish as to compare Lebron to Kobe. Or for the really delusional ones who actually make a case to compare him to Jordan.


No matter how you dress up your tiers, you completely off base. To put Lebron in the same conversation as Jordan is blasphemous. Jordan never lost in the finals and never needed to form a super team consisting of a top five player and a top fifteen player along with 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three just to beat some of the weakest competition in NBA history in the east and some mediocre competition in the finals. All with questionable calls the whole way through. You are only as great as your competition and Lebron hasn't really had all that much compared to greats like Jordan and Kobe. Especially considering the super team he constructed when he went ring chasing.

Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013_finals.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008_WCF.html

What do you think about the difference in numbers that Kobe put up against younger better Spurs teams on road to success with weaker supporting casts than Lebron had?

2008 WCF

A prime Kobe with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron's 2013 Heat against a younger tougher Spurs team...

Kobe 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 90.9 FT%, 33.3 3PT%, 53.3 FG%. Most importantly...won the series in 5 games with his second best player in Gasol only contributing 13.2 ppg and his third option Odom only contributing 12.8 ppg.

2013 Finals

A prime Lebron vs. a much older Spurs and weaker Spurs team than Kobe played back in the 2008 WCF...

25.3 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 79.5 FT%, 35.3 3PT%, 44.7 FG%. Barely won by the skin of their teeth in 7 games. Lebron received more help all around from his supporting cast as well. His second option Wade contributed 19.6 ppg and his third option Bosh contributed 11.9 ppg. Both shot significantly better from the field as well. Wade 47.6 FG% and Bosh 46.2 FG% compared to Gasol 44.6 FG% and Odom 40.4 FG%. Clearly Lebron's big three are in a whole other universe that what Kobe had to work with.

In addition, his fourth and fifth options in Allen and Chalmers also produced more than Kobe's fourth and fifth options in Farmar and Radmanovic. Both Allen and Chalmers contributed double figure scoring. Allen with 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and from 3 and Chalmers with 10.6 ppg on 39% from the field, but 40.6% from 3. In 2008 Farmar (Kobe's fourth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 45.7% from the field and 41.7% from 3. Radmanovic (fifth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 63.3% from the field, but only 27.3% from 3. Clearly Kobe outperformed Lebron with far less help against a better version of the same team.

And please don't throw in Lebron's empty rebounding and assist numbers because as I said earlier, they are a product of the system he runs and the players he choses to surround himself with. In 2008 Kobe had two guys in Gasol and Odom who both averaged 9.6 rpg in the WCF. Thus there are less rebounds for Kobe to grab, but his team is better off clearly. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but thats mainly due to the fact that there are no real rebounders on his team and who cares anyways because the Heat are last in the NBA in rebounding. It's not too impressive when you can put up the best rebounding stats on a team that is last in the NBA...talk about not sacrificing personal glory for the good of the team. :rolleyes:

As for the assists, Kobe played in the triangle which is not assist friendly at all, but is better for winning games and getting all around passing from the team. Lebron plays a pg on offense which is more designed as a iso drive and kick to his many 3 point snippers. Pretty easy to rack up assists when you have 5 guys on your team who can shoot over 40% from three and the system is designed to boost your stats. A luxury Kobe or MJ never had. Lebron in the triangle would not be able to produce those kind of assist numbers...especially without his 3 point snippers.

There you have it, the proof is in the pudding. Kobe would have won the title that year and had six rings had he been lucky enough to face the Spurs in the finals like Lebron did. Unfortunately, he had to face a far better team in the Celtics. The likes of which Lebron has never faced. Sorry, but it's all about how you do against the top competition, not about how you pad your stats in the regular season against the weaker teams in the weakest conference of all time. Kobe clearly performed better when the stakes were up against the better competition. That is the true measure of greatness.

LoveMeOrHateMe
07-21-2013, 03:59 PM
Depends on the replacement.



Um MJ?

I mean during that time MJ was just about out of the league

TrueFan420
07-21-2013, 04:04 PM
Lol no the lakers don't win without Kobe just like they wouldn't win without Shaq your ignorant for saying they would still win without Kobe

Ignorant isn't the word your looking for buddy. A better assessment would be overconfident in shaq and the match up. The heat don't have a center on their team. Shaq, physically is the most dominating center the nba ever saw. He would be a nightmare match up for the heat.

Of course they wouldn't win with just Kobe. The heat have players they can put on him to slow him down. Who slows down shaq tho? Birdman? Anthony? Bosh?

I don't think the heat could beat shaq and penny their Orlando days.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:06 PM
Just wanted to share an oldie but a goodie from the other day. You Lebronites should take note of this when you feel so foolish as to compare Lebron to Kobe. Or for the really delusional ones who actually make a case to compare him to Jordan.

Bravo:clap: One of the best post I've ever read.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:07 PM
Oh please, no they don't. You're trying to come up with any little hypothetical situation to make Lebron seem like he's capable of taking on Kobe and Shaq. You can try and make up any situation you'd like, but no one besides Mj and Pip are taking down a prime Shaq/Kobe.

you guys need to get off jordans jock, btw bibby and webber almost took kobe and shaq down, and they were cheated, so lets not go there.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:13 PM
you guys need to get off jordans jock, btw bibby and webber almost took kobe and shaq down, and they were cheated, so lets not go there.

You're just upset you're to young to have watched even a single Jordan game. Lebron has work to do just to get into the top ten. When will you realize that Lebron has a zero percent chance to catch Jordan. Give up your pipe dream.

Does the Lebron fan really want to talk about Rigs and cheating???? Lmao! That Kings team would have beat any Heat team from the past 3 years in 5 games max.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:15 PM
Yup, Lebron needs a specific combination of the best 3pt snipers in the business and a top 5 and 15 super star for him to operate effectively. Put Kobe on any good team and they are instant contenders.

considering he took the 2007 cavs to the finals im going to say FALSE, remember lebron back than wasnt even as good as he is today, his jumper was broke, and his iq was as good. i know what you're going to say east was weak blah blah blah, he still took them far. very impressive feat.

also 2010 cavs he only had 2 players shoot 40%, cool thing is that was arguably his best season #fail. and did you see a top 15 or 5 player on it?? nope, how many games did they win? oh right 66

also another thing, this years heat wade wasn't a top 5 player and bosh wasn't a top 15 player, so theres another thing.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:17 PM
You're just upset you're to young to have watched even a single Jordan game. Lebron has work to do just to get into the top ten. When will you realize that Lebron has a zero percent chance to catch Jordan. Give up your pipe dream.

Does the Lebron fan really want to talk about Rigs and cheating???? Lmao! That Kings team would have beat any Heat team from the past 3 years in 5 games max.

hes already top ten #fail. and i never once said he was better than jordan another #fail. and dude you just got off a ban, lets have a civil convo. i know the topic of lebron gets you emotional.

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 04:20 PM
I mean during that time MJ was just about out of the league

Thought you meant "top 10 all time"

Bostonjorge
07-21-2013, 04:22 PM
Don't see how Miami can even win a game. Kobe will slow lebron down and Miami relies on lebron way to much for him to get slowed down by kobe.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:24 PM
considering he took the 2007 cavs to the finals im going to say FALSE, remember lebron back than wasnt even as good as he is today, his jumper was broke, and his iq was as good. i know what you're going to say east was weak blah blah blah, he still took them far. very impressive feat.

also 2010 cavs he only had 2 players shoot 40%, cool thing is that was arguably his best season #fail. and did you see a top 15 or 5 player on it?? nope, how many games did they win? oh right 66

also another thing, this years heat wade wasn't a top 5 player and bosh wasn't a top 15 player, so theres another thing.

You act like getting to the playoffs with the best record and failing to win a ship as the favorites is an accomplishment. Lebron never won a single finals game in 8 years. All you guys were claiming how Wade is better than Kobe and how Bosh is so important to the Heat, but now they're scrubs. Lebron fans are too cute.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:25 PM
Just wanted to share an oldie but a goodie from the other day. You Lebronites should take note of this when you feel so foolish as to compare Lebron to Kobe. Or for the really delusional ones who actually make a case to compare him to Jordan.

already attacked this post, but like always you dismiss peoples opinion unless they agree with you.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:25 PM
hes already top ten #fail. and i never once said he was better than jordan another #fail. and dude you just got off a ban, lets have a civil convo. i know the topic of lebron gets you emotional.

Lebron a top ten player??? :laugh: on what planet :laugh: You have said multiple times that Lebron is on his way to catching Jordan and now all the Jordan fans are paranoid. Get real buckets!

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:27 PM
You act like getting to the playoffs with the best record and failing to win a ship as the favorites is an accomplishment. Lebron never won a single finals game in 8 years. All you guys were claiming how Wade is better than Kobe and how Bosh is so important to the Heat, but now they're scrubs. Lebron fans are too cute.

he said lebron needs all those things to be EFFECTIVE, was he not effective? those guys are not scrub but you can't be serious if you think wade is still a top 5 player. btw can you stop taking shots/? you're kind of ruining the thread. or you can ignore me.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:30 PM
Lebron a top ten player??? :laugh: on what planet :laugh: You have said multiple times that Lebron is on his way to catching Jordan and now all the Jordan fans are paranoid. Get real buckets!

no i said lebron is catching up kobe, and all the kobephiles are getting paranoid, i know jordan is goat, but doesn't mean i have to like him. can you list ten players better? its funny because you had lebron as high as 13 before he won the chip, and even though kobe fans always say its all about chip chips and chips, lebron still doesn't move up/

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:32 PM
Don't see how Miami can even win a game. Kobe will slow lebron down and Miami relies on lebron way to much for him to get slowed down by kobe.

arent we assuming everyone is in their primes? prime wade and lebron are getting a few wins c'mon, if you mean the 2013 team i still think they can win one.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 04:36 PM
you guys need to get off jordans jock, btw bibby and webber almost took kobe and shaq down, and they were cheated, so lets not go there.

They were not cheated.

It's obvious you clearly did not watch that series.

For one, during the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

Watch the whole series and then let's talk. Until then, it's useless to debate.

THE MTL
07-21-2013, 04:36 PM
Miami had Roy Hibbert average 20 something per game, a prime Shaq would average 50.

Federal Reserve
07-21-2013, 04:37 PM
The Lakers team during that span was overrated. The Lakers started winning only after the NBA referees began giving them favorable calls in the playoffs.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:39 PM
no i said lebron is catching up kobe, and all the kobephiles are getting paranoid, i know jordan is goat, but doesn't mean i have to like him. can you list ten players better? its funny because you had lebron as high as 13 before he won the chip, and even though kobe fans always say its all about chip chips and chips, lebron still doesn't move up/

Lebron is about two spot short of the top 10. What you Heat fans don't realize is that Lebron was one ray Allen three away from becoming the most losing superstar in Nba history. I finals record of 1-3 while having the best team in the nba for 6 plus years. Lebron's 2013 finals stats are the most inflated pos stats I've ever seen. Everyone with a brain seen Lebron get beat down in 5/7 games. Lebron plays hero in game seven, but in reality he owes Ray his life for saving his legacy. Then we can go into details like the Heat having the easiest path for a back to back champ in history. The list goes on and on.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:41 PM
They were not cheated.

It's obvious you clearly did not watch that series.

For one, during the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

Watch the whole series and then let's talk. Until then, it's useless to debate.

Great point! No disrespect to Buckets, but he was 8 years old when this series happened(he'll admit this). So he can only go by word of mouth.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 04:42 PM
no i said lebron is catching up kobe, and all the kobephiles are getting paranoid, i know jordan is goat, but doesn't mean i have to like him. can you list ten players better? its funny because you had lebron as high as 13 before he won the chip, and even though kobe fans always say its all about chip chips and chips, lebron still doesn't move up/

I will bet any amount of money you want to put up that Lebron will never come close to Jordan. As for Kobe, he might have a slight chance, but I would still bet against it. Beating an aged Spurs team and a super young OKC team for his two rings was not that impressive in comparison to the all time greats. Especially considering he did not face anyone tough in the east except for the Celtics and Magic when he was on the Cavs...he lost every time.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:42 PM
The Lakers team during that span was overrated. The Lakers started winning only after the NBA referees began giving them favorable calls in the playoffs.

:facepalm:

amos1er
07-21-2013, 04:43 PM
Great point! No disrespect to Buckets, but he was 8 years old when this series happened(he'll admit this). So he can only go by word of mouth.

Not surprising.

Nothing compares to the superstar treatment Lebron get from Stern. Even Jordan never had it that good. Only time that anyone could compare was Wade in the 2006 finals.

In 2008-2009 = The free throw disparity between the Cavs and their opponents in the playoffs increased over 300% in the Cavs Favor compared to the regular season

In 2009-2010 = The free throw disparity between the Cavs and their opponents in the playoffs increased over 67% in the Cavs Favor compared to the regular season

In 2010-2011 = The free throw disparity between the Heat and their opponents in the playoffs increased 340% in the Heat's Favor compared to the regular season

How much more obvious can you get???

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:43 PM
They were not cheated.

It's obvious you clearly did not watch that series.

For one, during the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

Watch the whole series and then let's talk. Until then, it's useless to debate.

free throw disparity doesn't prove anything, i did watch the series, iam a proud laker hater of course i would watch it. didn't see anything suspicious until game 6. but lets not get off topic, this is a discussion for another time.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:45 PM
I will bet any amount of money you want to put up that Lebron will never come close to Jordan. As for Kobe, he might have a slight chance, but I would still bet against it. Beating an aged Spurs team and a super young OKC team for his two rings was not that impressive in comparison to the all time greats. Especially considering he did not face anyone tough in the east except for the Celtics and Magic when he was on the Cavs...he lost every time.

Lebron was a perennial loser his whole life. The guy even has two Bronze medals. I find it nuts that people can change their tune when being manipulated by the Media. Espn throws out something that compares the two and the snowball keeps on rolling.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Lebron is about two spot short of the top 10. What you Heat fans don't realize is that Lebron was one ray Allen three away from becoming the most losing superstar in Nba history. I finals record of 1-3 while having the best team in the nba for 6 plus years. Lebron's 2013 finals stats are the most inflated pos stats I've ever seen. Everyone with a brain seen Lebron get beat down in 5/7 games. Lebron plays hero in game seven, but in reality he owes Ray his life for saving his legacy. Then we can go into details like the Heat having the easiest path for a back to back champ in history. The list goes on and on.

drop your top ten than... you can give the credit to allen, or lebrons 18 fourth q points, in a game that looked like it was wrapped up. lebron could owe it to allen, or maybe allen should thank him? because he would never be in that position without brons heroics.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Great point! No disrespect to Buckets, but he was 8 years old when this series happened(he'll admit this). So he can only go by word of mouth.

i was born in 84 so you do the math.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Not surprising.

Nothing compares to the superstar treatment Lebron get from Stern. Even Jordan never had it that good. Only time that anyone could compare was Wade in the 2006 finals.

In 2008-2009 = The free throw disparity between the Cavs and their opponents in the playoffs increased over 300% in the Cavs Favor compared to the regular season

In 2009-2010 = The free throw disparity between the Cavs and their opponents in the playoffs increased over 67% in the Cavs Favor compared to the regular season

In 2010-2011 = The free throw disparity between the Heat and their opponents in the playoffs increased 340% in the Heat's Favor compared to the regular season

How much more obvious can you get???

It sucks that these stats will never be acknowledged.

Chronz
07-21-2013, 04:48 PM
Just got done reading the arguments, so who could Riley realistically trade Bosh for? Or sign in FA if you will?


It got me thinking about a Center who was ring chasing around the time the Big3 first came on board but Riley never showed interest, Shaq himself. What if they ran a Chalmers-Wade-Bron-Bosh-Shaq squad?

Fantasy stuff, major drawback being that it was the year Shaq just broke down physically and the year the Heat broke down mentally. Not the best answer...


The Heat that repeat were never healthy either, should we expect them to all be 100% healthy? Cuz that changes things quite abit.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 04:49 PM
free throw disparity doesn't prove anything, i did watch the series, iam a proud laker hater of course i would watch it. didn't see anything suspicious until game 6. but lets not get off topic, this is a discussion for another time.

I never denied that the 4th quarter of game six was horrible. I agree, it was. But when you bring that up, you have to bring up that the refs handed the Queens both games 3 and 5. All in all if you take the whole series into account...the Queens got the better calls. Just because the refs handed the Lakers one quarter to extend the series, doesn't take away from the fact that the majority of the series was called in the Queens favor. The Lakers won game 7 on the road in the end...give credit where it is due.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:50 PM
I will bet any amount of money you want to put up that Lebron will never come close to Jordan. As for Kobe, he might have a slight chance, but I would still bet against it. Beating an aged Spurs team and a super young OKC team for his two rings was not that impressive in comparison to the all time greats. Especially considering he did not face anyone tough in the east except for the Celtics and Magic when he was on the Cavs...he lost every time.

good thing most people are not haters like you , you completly discredit both his chips.. hmm maybe championships don't mean much, because we can technically discredit any championship ring if you think about it.

Chronz
07-21-2013, 04:50 PM
Not surprising.

Nothing compares to the superstar treatment Lebron get from Stern. Even Jordan never had it that good. Only time that anyone could compare was Wade in the 2006 finals.

In 2008-2009 = The free throw disparity between the Cavs and their opponents in the playoffs increased over 300% in the Cavs Favor compared to the regular season

In 2009-2010 = The free throw disparity between the Cavs and their opponents in the playoffs increased over 67% in the Cavs Favor compared to the regular season

In 2010-2011 = The free throw disparity between the Heat and their opponents in the playoffs increased 340% in the Heat's Favor compared to the regular season

How much more obvious can you get???

Didn't the Heat just set the record for fewest FTA in a 7game series or Finals or something?

And forgive me for not trusting your ability to quantify statistical probabilities. LMFAO

Chronz
07-21-2013, 04:54 PM
good thing most people are not haters like you , you completly discredit both his chips.. hmm maybe championships don't mean much, because we can technically discredit any championship ring if you think about it.
Right on so many levels.

Nevermind that you have legends like Larry Legend himself calling this some of the best championship basketball hes ever seen. No lets put our trust in 2 extreme kobephiles with a lust for fake statistical analysis and insecure insults.

Watch them treat the rest of this thread like a personal chat room, reciting endless copy and pasted arguments.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:55 PM
Lebron was a perennial loser his whole life. The guy even has two Bronze medals. I find it nuts that people can change their tune when being manipulated by the Media. Espn throws out something that compares the two and the snowball keeps on rolling.

probably has something to do with his best players being jamison and mowillams for most of his career, still doesn't constitute a perennial loser, unless charles barkely,stocton,malone are all losers in your eyes. its funny your bring up the olympics, especially when he wasn't really a main peace in the 2004 tournament, he still has 2 gold medals, stop hating.

also funny you guys don't see the same thing with kobe? when kobe hits a game winner, its replayed and disected on espn for the whole day, when it happens to melo just a short clip. even though melo has proven to be more clutch, if i say melo is clutcher than kobe i will be callled an idiot by people like you.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 04:56 PM
It sucks that these stats will never be acknowledged.

we can show you some stats that would clearly show kobe in a negative light, but you would say "stats don;t matter" ofcourse unless it discredit bron.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Lebron was a perennial loser his whole life. The guy even has two Bronze medals. I find it nuts that people can change their tune when being manipulated by the Media. Espn throws out something that compares the two and the snowball keeps on rolling.

Yup, people forget his first gold was thanks to Kobe saving his *** in the gold medal game against Spain. Lebron padded his stats against the Kawaity five, but when everything was on the line, coach K told Kobe to un-leach the Mamba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxXT3zNSNoU

Lets also not forget who the most popular player is between Kobe and Lebron internationally.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 04:59 PM
Didn't the Heat just set the record for fewest FTA in a 7game series or Finals or something?

And forgive me for not trusting your ability to quantify statistical probabilities. LMFAO

Why don't we quantify the comparison of how Kobe and Lebron did against the Spurs during their careers.

Care to comment on this post...


No matter how you dress up your tiers, you completely off base. To put Lebron in the same conversation as Jordan is blasphemous. Jordan never lost in the finals and never needed to form a super team consisting of a top five player and a top fifteen player along with 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three just to beat some of the weakest competition in NBA history in the east and some mediocre competition in the finals. All with questionable calls the whole way through. You are only as great as your competition and Lebron hasn't really had all that much compared to greats like Jordan and Kobe. Especially considering the super team he constructed when he went ring chasing.

Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...13_finals.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._2008_WCF.html

What do you think about the difference in numbers that Kobe put up against younger better Spurs teams on road to success with weaker supporting casts than Lebron had?

2008 WCF

A prime Kobe with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron's 2013 Heat against a younger tougher Spurs team...

Kobe 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 90.9 FT%, 33.3 3PT%, 53.3 FG%. Most importantly...won the series in 5 games with his second best player in Gasol only contributing 13.2 ppg and his third option Odom only contributing 12.8 ppg.

2013 Finals

A prime Lebron vs. a much older Spurs and weaker Spurs team than Kobe played back in the 2008 WCF...

25.3 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 79.5 FT%, 35.3 3PT%, 44.7 FG%. Barely won by the skin of their teeth in 7 games. Lebron received more help all around from his supporting cast as well. His second option Wade contributed 19.6 ppg and his third option Bosh contributed 11.9 ppg. Both shot significantly better from the field as well. Wade 47.6 FG% and Bosh 46.2 FG% compared to Gasol 44.6 FG% and Odom 40.4 FG%. Clearly Lebron's big three are in a whole other universe that what Kobe had to work with.

In addition, his fourth and fifth options in Allen and Chalmers also produced more than Kobe's fourth and fifth options in Farmar and Radmanovic. Both Allen and Chalmers contributed double figure scoring. Allen with 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and from 3 and Chalmers with 10.6 ppg on 39% from the field, but 40.6% from 3. In 2008 Farmar (Kobe's fourth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 45.7% from the field and 41.7% from 3. Radmanovic (fifth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 63.3% from the field, but only 27.3% from 3. Clearly Kobe outperformed Lebron with far less help against a better version of the same team.

And please don't throw in Lebron's empty rebounding and assist numbers because as I said earlier, they are a product of the system he runs and the players he choses to surround himself with. In 2008 Kobe had two guys in Gasol and Odom who both averaged 9.6 rpg in the WCF. Thus there are less rebounds for Kobe to grab, but his team is better off clearly. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but thats mainly due to the fact that there are no real rebounders on his team and who cares anyways because the Heat are last in the NBA in rebounding. It's not too impressive when you can put up the best rebounding stats on a team that is last in the NBA...talk about not sacrificing personal glory for the good of the team.

As for the assists, Kobe played in the triangle which is not assist friendly at all, but is better for winning games and getting all around passing from the team. Lebron plays a pg on offense which is more designed as a iso drive and kick to his many 3 point snippers. Pretty easy to rack up assists when you have 5 guys on your team who can shoot over 40% from three and the system is designed to boost your stats. A luxury Kobe or MJ never had. Lebron in the triangle would not be able to produce those kind of assist numbers...especially without his 3 point snippers.

There you have it, the proof is in the pudding. Kobe would have won the title that year and had six rings had he been lucky enough to face the Spurs in the finals like Lebron did. Unfortunately, he had to face a far better team in the Celtics. The likes of which Lebron has never faced. Sorry, but it's all about how you do against the top competition, not about how you pad your stats in the regular season against the weaker teams in the weakest conference of all time. Kobe clearly performed better when the stakes were up against the better competition. That is the true measure of greatness.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:01 PM
drop your top ten than... you can give the credit to allen, or lebrons 18 fourth q points, in a game that looked like it was wrapped up. lebron could owe it to allen, or maybe allen should thank him? because he would never be in that position without brons heroics.

Here is my top ten...

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Russell

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:02 PM
Yup, people forget his first gold was thanks to Kobe saving his *** in the gold medal game against Spain. Lebron padded his stats against the Kawaity five, but when everything was on the line, coach K told Kobe to un-leach the Mamba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxXT3zNSNoU

Lets also not forget who the most popular player is between Kobe and Lebron internationally.

james bronze medal was all his fault, but when he finally wins gold, it was all because of kobe? theres sometihng called 'team' watching kobe for 17 years, i can see why you like give all credit to one player.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:04 PM
Here is my top ten...

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Russell

so does championship mean anything or what, you guys all shove that down our throat but you have the most winning est player of all time at ten.

Chronz
07-21-2013, 05:05 PM
Why don't we quantify the comparison of how Kobe and Lebron did against the Spurs during their careers.
LOL sounds like fun, literally just got done watching the 01 series, but ultimately what would be the point? You obviously have a motive and an agenda to push, I like going into these sort of projects with the requisite scientific objectivity. Which you should already know where I stand on that


Care to comment on this post...
Care to give me a cliff notes vs of the entire argument at hand?

I see you rehash alot of **** that has already been refuted, so again, whats the point?

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:07 PM
so does championship mean anything or what, you guys all shove that down our throat but you have the most winning est player of all time at ten.

He also had the best supporting cast of all time in one of the weakest era's. I take all that stuff into account.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:08 PM
LOL sounds like fun, literally just got done watching the 01 series, but ultimately what would be the point? You obviously have a motive and an agenda to push, I like going into these sort of projects with the requisite scientific objectivity. Which you should already know where I stand on that with you.


Care to give me a cliff notes vs of the entire argument at hand?

I see you rehash alot of **** that has already been refuted, so again, whats the point?

Kobe performed better against better competition with less help than Lebron did.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 05:10 PM
drop your top ten than... you can give the credit to allen, or lebrons 18 fourth q points, in a game that looked like it was wrapped up. lebron could owe it to allen, or maybe allen should thank him? because he would never be in that position without brons heroics.
MJ
Kaj
Magic
Russel
Wilt
Kobe
Tim
Shaq
Bird
Oscar/Malone(most underrated player ever)
Kobe will no doubt be above Bill and Wilt by career end.


Lebrons heroics? Lebron almost lost them the game. He also thought he was clutch when he missed a wide open three to tie the game.

i was born in 84 so you do the math.

:laugh: Wow dude what a liar. We have been over this a hundred times. You have even admitted being twenty. Now you're claiming to be a thirty. Lmao, how ashamed do you have to be to lie about your age.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:10 PM
No one has ever refuted the argument I just posted.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:10 PM
He also had the best supporting cast of all time in one of the weakest era's. I take all that stuff into account.

but you don't take account lebron playing in cleveland, and kobe/magic playing with great players from the start.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:11 PM
No one has ever refuted the argument I just posted.

i did, you quoted me with laughing smileys pretty much called me an idiot than left.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:13 PM
MJ
Kaj
Magic
Russel
Wilt
Kobe
Tim
Shaq
Bird
Oscar/Malone(most underrated player ever)
Kobe will no doubt be above Bill and Wilt by career end.


Lebrons heroics? Lebron almost lost them the game. He also thought he was clutch when he missed a wide open three to tie the game.


:laugh: Wow dude what a liar. We have been over this a hundred times. You have even admitted being twenty. Now you're claiming to be a thirty. Lmao, how ashamed do you have to be to lie about your age.

im 28, thanks though. never remember having personal talks like that with you, i do how ever remember getting into a convo abouit age with kb-paudh1012 hmm.

Chronz
07-21-2013, 05:14 PM
No one has ever refuted the argument I just posted.
You dont remember trying it on me, or did you conveniently never post in that same thread again out of arrogance?

Chronz
07-21-2013, 05:14 PM
im 28, thanks though. never remember having personal talks like that with you, i do how ever remember getting into a convo abouit age with kb-paudh1012 hmm.
lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 05:15 PM
Yup, people forget his first gold was thanks to Kobe saving his *** in the gold medal game against Spain. Lebron padded his stats against the Kawaity five, but when everything was on the line, coach K told Kobe to un-leach the Mamba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxXT3zNSNoU

Lets also not forget who the most popular player is between Kobe and Lebron internationally.Right you are.


james bronze medal was all his fault, but when he finally wins gold, it was all because of kobe? theres sometihng called 'team' watching kobe for 17 years, i can see why you like give all credit to one player.

Did you see the Gold game vs Spain? Spain wins gold without Kobes "heroics"

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:15 PM
You dont remember trying it on me, or did you conveniently never post in that same thread again out of arrogance?

Never saw your reply. Care to refresh my memory? Or just repost it in here.

kantarok
07-21-2013, 05:16 PM
Lol who says Lakers? You people judge too quickly. if all three are not injured at all, LBJ, Wade and Bosh would annihilate those two. Everyone forgets how much trouble the Kings and Spurs gave them and every Finals that the Lakers won was against terrible East teams that would have ranked like 4 or 5 in the west at that time. And Kobe and Shaq were beaten by the Pistons, how do you all forget? Bibby and no offense Anthony are the reason the Heat do not have three rings in the Big 3 era but LBJ, wade and Bosh are dominating

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:18 PM
[QUOTE=ILLUSIONIST^248;26726921]MJ
Kaj
Magic
Russel
Wilt
Kobe
Tim
Shaq
Bird
Oscar/Malone(most underrated player ever)
Kobe will no doubt be above Bill and Wilt by career end.
i find it hysterical, that laker fans all say its all about championships, but you have 1 ring oscar who btw admits to lebron being better, and another player you define as a perennial loser ahead of lebron smh.


Lebrons heroics? Lebron almost lost them the game. He also thought he was clutch when he missed a wide open three to tie the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVwKLhq5KlY watch carefully, almost lost them? they wouldnt be anywhere close if it wasn't for him.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 05:18 PM
im 28, thanks though. never remember having personal talks like that with you, i do how ever remember getting into a convo abouit age with kb-paudh1012 hmm.

I remember pointing out your age (20) to you in a thread talking about how come you never seen Jordan play. You were like "So what" " I Didn't have to watch Jordan to know things".

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 05:22 PM
how are they gona be killing kobes production, theyre gona be too busy helping off for Shaq the entire series. and tyson chandler wouldn't have made a difference, you'd still have to double and triple team prime Shaq. you can't find a single contemporary center who could have guarded him with single coverage without getting absolutely dumped on. maybe hibbert could hold him to 30/14.

By production, I mean 49/15/13/5/3 is going to beat Kobe and whatever other wing you want to pull from their rosters. Furthermore, Kobe never went against two elite players from the same on the wings. He would be facing nothing but an elite defender, and trying to guard an elite offensive player, only Miami can simply switch Wade/Bron on him and keep them fresh.

But again, it all hinges on Bosh being replaced by defensive big men.

Chronz
07-21-2013, 05:23 PM
Just curious, did you guys time this revival? All that time you guys were gone I thought you had just retreated into the Lakers board or were simply waiting this offseason out, but I guess it was a ban that brought you out the woodwork. It seems like you 2 always come in a pack, did you purposely wait for him?

Chronz
07-21-2013, 05:24 PM
By production, I mean 49/15/13/5/3 is going to beat Kobe and whatever other wing you want to pull from their rosters.

I think hes referring to both Wade and Bron being named. But I didn't really get what either of you were saying.

What about Shaqobe putting up production that hasnt been matched by a duo... like ever.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:26 PM
Just curious, did you guys time this revival? All that time you guys were gone I thought you had just retreated into the Lakers board or were simply waiting this offseason out, but I guess it was a ban that brought you out the woodwork. It seems like you 2 always come in a pack, did you purposely wait for him?

I've been around. Though I have concentrated most of my efforts in the Lakers forum as of late posting about what a **** up Jim Buss is. Guess Illusionist just got off his ban. So to answer your question, no it wasn't planned. Though I'm sure it was a lot duller around here without us.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:26 PM
I remember pointing out your age (20) to you in a thread talking about how come you never seen Jordan play. You were like "So what" " I Didn't have to watch Jordan to know things".

never watched jordan live, well i did but didnt understand basketball than, i strted watching ball seriously in 1998, in a year i was a hardcore fan.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:27 PM
I think hes referring to both Wade and Bron being named. But I didn't really get what either of you were saying.

What about Shaqobe putting up production that hasnt been matched by a duo... like ever.

Agreed. 15-1 will never be topped. All against greater competition than Lebron faced in both of his title runs btw.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 05:28 PM
I think hes referring to both Wade and Bron being named. But I didn't really get what either of you were saying.

What about Shaqobe putting up production that hasnt been matched by a duo... like ever.

Hypothetically, this is a matchup nightmare for the Heat. My point, originally, was that Riley would have never constructed this trio, had he known Shaq was waiting for him. You get defensive big men, instead of Bosh. If you can at least make life difficult for Shaq, Kobe is facing two fresh wing defenders nightly in the series, and being forced to guard an elite offensive player.

Even then, Shaq was a nightmare. Add Kobe, and it might be too much regardless. I am simply coming up with scenarios where this becomes a more interesting topic, while also bringing up the reality that Riley would have done things slightly different had Shaq/Kobe been there.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 05:33 PM
By production, I mean 49/15/13/5/3 is going to beat Kobe and whatever other wing you want to pull from their rosters. Furthermore, Kobe never went against two elite players from the same on the wings. He would be facing nothing but an elite defender, and trying to guard an elite offensive player, only Miami can simply switch Wade/Bron on him and keep them fresh.

But again, it all hinges on Bosh being replaced by defensive big men.

A young fresh Kobe would have no problem keeping up with who ever is thrown at him. What I don't get is how you think having a defensive big man will have any impact on a Prime Shaq.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 05:35 PM
never watched jordan live, well i did but didnt understand basketball than, i strted watching ball seriously in 1998, in a year i was a hardcore fan.

Pretty impressive for a six year old.

mexican dodger
07-21-2013, 05:37 PM
Shaq and kobe hands down

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:38 PM
A young fresh Kobe would have no problem keeping up with who ever is thrown at him. What I don't get is how you think having a defensive big man will have any impact on a Prime Shaq.

Yup.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 05:44 PM
Yup.

young kobe never matched up with a someone who was the size of a pf, strong as a center, but still is quicker than he is.

amos1er
07-21-2013, 05:49 PM
young kobe never matched up with a someone who was the size of a pf, strong as a center, but still is quicker than he is.

Kobe has just too many moves for Lebron to keep up one on one.

Lets not forget what happened at this years all star game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XxsN8jITds

Chronz
07-21-2013, 05:54 PM
Hypothetically, this is a matchup nightmare for the Heat. My point, originally, was that Riley would have never constructed this trio, had he known Shaq was waiting for him. You get defensive big men, instead of Bosh. If you can at least make life difficult for Shaq, Kobe is facing two fresh wing defenders nightly in the series, and being forced to guard an elite offensive player.

Even then, Shaq was a nightmare. Add Kobe, and it might be too much regardless. I am simply coming up with scenarios where this becomes a more interesting topic, while also bringing up the reality that Riley would have done things slightly different had Shaq/Kobe been there.

Yea I caught that here : http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?830115-Who-would-win-Kobe-Shaq-or-the-Three-Amigos&p=26726715#post26726715

Just got done reading the arguments, so who could Riley realistically trade Bosh for? Or sign in FA if you will?

The Heat that repeat were never healthy either, should we expect them to all be 100% healthy? Cuz that changes things quite abit.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 06:00 PM
Kobe has just too many moves for Lebron to keep up one on one.

Lets not forget what happened at this years all star game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XxsN8jITds

lebrons lateral quickness isn't elite so i would say somone smaller would guard kobe, BUT kobe can't check lebron lets be honest, dude is too small, he will be flying off him like a fly. what he can do is sag off and hope he doesn't get burned like the spurs in game 7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8pMAE3HGUA if we're using youtube videos, why don't you tell kobe to get off the floor?

bucketss
07-21-2013, 06:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3riY-jXRFxM

:cool:

beliges
07-21-2013, 06:10 PM
Shaq in his prime and Kobe in his prime would be better than any of the big 3 in their prime. LBJ and Kobe would be very similar in their primes but I'd give the edge to Kobe. With that said give me shaq and Kobe in their primes over the Miami three.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 06:16 PM
lebrons lateral quickness isn't elite so i would say somone smaller would guard kobe, BUT kobe can't check lebron lets be honest, dude is too small, he will be flying off him like a fly. what he can do is sag off and hope he doesn't get burned like the spurs in game 7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8pMAE3HGUA if we're using youtube videos, why don't you tell kobe to get off the floor?

Prime Kobe would have no problem guarding Lebron. Your two youtube videos only showed Kobe slipping and Lebron missing a layup.

RLundi
07-21-2013, 06:23 PM
Shaq and Kobe are dominating the Heat trio, if not for any reason other than Chris Bosh. He's too small, too weak and not the same player he was in Toronto. I don't even think it's a big three anymore to be honest.

Unlike some though, I don't think Kobe and Shaq were completely unstoppable. The Kings and Blazers both almost took them down and if the Heat had a big man that could at least keep Shaq from going for 40 or play him single-coverage, then I could see the Heat winning. But since they don't, I'll give it to the Lakers rather easily.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 06:26 PM
Prime Kobe would have no problem guarding Lebron. Your two youtube videos only showed Kobe slipping and Lebron missing a layup.

no problem, kobe must be the greatest defender off all time to have 'no problem' guarding someone who has like 50 pounds 3 inches on him, and is just as fast. smh

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 07:08 PM
Yea I caught that here : http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?830115-Who-would-win-Kobe-Shaq-or-the-Three-Amigos&p=26726715#post26726715

Just got done reading the arguments, so who could Riley realistically trade Bosh for? Or sign in FA if you will?

The Heat that repeat were never healthy either, should we expect them to all be 100% healthy? Cuz that changes things quite abit.

then we both entered this with the same mindset. Cheers

bucketss
07-21-2013, 07:18 PM
look at lebron even making eddy curry look good(1:04 mark) :speechless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kewlshHOqs

bucketss
07-21-2013, 07:21 PM
look at lebron even making eddy curry look good(1:04 mark) :speechless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kewlshHOqs

this entire video is actually full of lebron domination my goodness, how can anyone hate?

heyman321
07-21-2013, 07:31 PM
Shaq and Kobe are dominating the Heat trio, if not for any reason other than Chris Bosh. He's too small, too weak and not the same player he was in Toronto. I don't even think it's a big three anymore to be honest.

Unlike some though, I don't think Kobe and Shaq were completely unstoppable. The Kings and Blazers both almost took them down and if the Heat had a big man that could at least keep Shaq from going for 40 or play him single-coverage, then I could see the Heat winning. But since they don't, I'll give it to the Lakers rather easily.

It's not even a big two. They are the Miami Lebrons + role players + Wade's occasional good game.

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 08:00 PM
Just curious, did you guys time this revival? All that time you guys were gone I thought you had just retreated into the Lakers board or were simply waiting this offseason out, but I guess it was a ban that brought you out the woodwork. It seems like you 2 always come in a pack, did you purposely wait for him?

Lol i was thinking the same thing

Chronz
07-21-2013, 08:03 PM
then we both entered this with the same mindset. Cheers

huh?

That post was me asking questions about that hypothetical among other topics.

Who could Riles have traded Bosh for?

Bostonjorge
07-21-2013, 08:07 PM
Kobe with shaq anchoring on D will slow lebron down all the way around. Lebron production will fall off in every category. No way lebron gets rebounds over shaq or blocks 1 of shaq shots. Also kobe is a far better scorer then a lebron or wade defender. No matter who u put on kobe he still going to make impossible shots.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 08:11 PM
Kobe with shaq anchoring on D will slow lebron down all the way around. Lebron production will fall off in every category. No way lebron gets rebounds over shaq or blocks 1 of shaq shots. Also kobe is a far better scorer then a lebron or wade defender. No matter who u put on kobe he still going to make impossible shots.

lebron will post him(kobe), they got to bring the double team, if he draws shaq in bosh will be wide open. also is shaq going to get back on D with his fat ***? better not turn it over.

beliges
07-21-2013, 08:39 PM
[/QUOTE]
lebron will post him(kobe), they got to bring the double team[/QUOTE]

LOL. lebron has no post game to post Kobe. Sorry.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-21-2013, 09:06 PM
lebron will post him(kobe), they got to bring the double team, if he draws shaq in bosh will be wide open. also is shaq going to get back on D with his fat ***? better not turn it over.

If only it were that easy Kip.

sfattahian
07-21-2013, 09:19 PM
smh if you said LeBron , Wade, Bosh. Shaq and Kobe would destroy them, who would guard Shaq? lol

Jarvo
07-21-2013, 09:20 PM
My heart saying Shaq & Kobe, Mind saying heat because they'll drive the ball in to get Shaq in foul trouble.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 09:48 PM
LOL. lebron has no post game to post Kobe. Sorry.

ask durant if lebron has a post game or not.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 09:51 PM
If only it were that easy Kip.

lebron destroyed durant in the post, what makes you think skinnier,weaker,shorter, kobe will have a chance?

LoveMeOrHateMe
07-21-2013, 10:04 PM
lebron destroyed durant in the post, what makes you think skinnier,weaker,shorter, kobe will have a chance?

Because Kobe was a elite defender in his prime, Durant isn't and won't be. Even last year when both were in the post Kobe took lebron to school

bucketss
07-21-2013, 10:20 PM
Because Kobe was a elite defender in his prime, Durant isn't and won't be. Even last year when both were in the post Kobe took lebron to school

elite perimeter defender. also im not talking about kobes post game, im talking about his post defense and his size, hes not stoping lebron from backing him down.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 10:29 PM
huh?

That post was me asking questions about that hypothetical among other topics.

Who could Riles have traded Bosh for?

why are you confused? My point was, why would Riley have even put together the trio as is, knowing Shaq was waiting for them? You simply assumed they did put it together, and were looking for a trade to get the end result I pointed to.

Jesse Pinkman
07-21-2013, 10:49 PM
elite perimeter defender. also im not talking about kobes post game, im talking about his post defense and his size, hes not stoping lebron from backing him down.

This is true. Kobe had trouble guarding the post in 2000 against Steve Smith and Scottie, but got significantly better the following season when he bulked up and hit the weights that summer after his first title.

But I also don't think that LeBron has great footwork in the post. Often times he gets away with traveling and losing his pivot feet, the refs just hardly call it.

carlthack
07-21-2013, 10:50 PM
look at lebron even making eddy curry look good(1:04 mark) :speechless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kewlshHOqs

Of course everything will look good in a highlight reel. Thats why they call it a highlight reel.

Riodagoat
07-21-2013, 10:57 PM
Even if it was a Smush Parker-Shaq duo, they will still win.
There is nobody in this league right now who can guard a prime Shaq. If he played in this era, he would make the Jordan-is-GOAT argument a joke.

Luke_K77bear
07-21-2013, 11:09 PM
i hated kobe/shaq, but miami couldnt guard shaq, he would dominate

dnl123
07-21-2013, 11:19 PM
The funny thing is Laker fans are trying to make it sound as if Kobe has any part of this scenario, he doesn't. Shaq is the only reason Miami would lose, and I'm not so sure it's as lopsided as people say. I think it's a stupid scenario either way. The facts are the Lakers were dominant in the early 2000's and the Heat have been dominant the last three seasons and their window is getting smaller.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 11:21 PM
Of course everything will look good in a highlight reel. Thats why they call it a highlight reel.

looked better live,had to change my under wear atleast three times.

bucketss
07-21-2013, 11:26 PM
This is true. Kobe had trouble guarding the post in 2000 against Steve Smith and Scottie, but got significantly better the following season when he bulked up and hit the weights that summer after his first title.

But I also don't think that LeBron has great footwork in the post. Often times he gets away with traveling and losing his pivot feet, the refs just hardly call it.

traveling isn't really a call in the nba, everyone travels, including kobe. i don't think lebron needs to perform hakeem moves on kobe, kobe is just too small and lite. im not saying he would get destroyed, but hes not checking him alone like some kobe fans here are suggesting.

Purple_n_Gold
07-21-2013, 11:45 PM
Lets see Roy Hibbert dominated the Heat. SO WHAT IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK SHAQ WOULD DO TO THEM?! Bosh would be so scared he would be spotted up on the opposite three point line where there was no action.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2013, 11:45 PM
The funny thing is Laker fans are trying to make it sound as if Kobe has any part of this scenario, he doesn't. Shaq is the only reason Miami would lose, and I'm not so sure it's as lopsided as people say. I think it's a stupid scenario either way. The facts are the Lakers were dominant in the early 2000's and the Heat have been dominant the last three seasons and their window is getting smaller.

I mean, Kobe is awesome, but by no means is he even remotely the best player in this hypothetical. He is the 3rd best player here.

Purple_n_Gold
07-22-2013, 12:00 AM
The funny thing is Laker fans are trying to make it sound as if Kobe has any part of this scenario, he doesn't. Shaq is the only reason Miami would lose, and I'm not so sure it's as lopsided as people say. I think it's a stupid scenario either way. The facts are the Lakers were dominant in the early 2000's and the Heat have been dominant the last three seasons and their window is getting smaller.
You are so correct. Kobe would have absolutely no part in the scenario... Do you watch basketball much? No matter how much you hate, to say that Kobe would not be a factor shows pure ignorance. I mean do you actually believe what you wrote? Your hate for Kobe has surely clouded your judgement. From a pure position standpoint Shaq would be the dominating force, but to act like Kobe plays no factor shows a low basketball IQ.

Purple_n_Gold
07-22-2013, 12:04 AM
lebron destroyed durant in the post, what makes you think skinnier,weaker,shorter, kobe will have a chance?
You think Durant is stronger and not skinnier than Kobe? Really? As far as the post goes James post game is mediocre at best and I don't really think that is debatable. He had one good post game against Indiana and pretty much stunk the rest of the time. If he was good in the post they would never go away from that. With his size strength at his position it would be pretty damn hard to stop.

ArmLaker
07-22-2013, 12:21 AM
I mean, Kobe is awesome, but by no means is he even remotely the best player in this hypothetical. He is the 3rd best player here.

When you say third best player.....do you mean the actual early 2000s Kobe vs the Prime LeBron? If so, then you might be right.

If you're talking about players in their primes facing each other....Kobe and Shaq respectively hands down are the best players in the series(Giving the edge to Kobe here)

bucketss
07-22-2013, 12:22 AM
You think Durant is stronger and not skinnier than Kobe? Really? As far as the post goes James post game is mediocre at best and I don't really think that is debatable. He had one good post game against Indiana and pretty much stunk the rest of the time. If he was good in the post they would never go away from that. With his size strength at his position it would be pretty damn hard to stop.

he went away from it, he didnt stink lol. did you watch the 2012 finals? he never left the post, and he made durant look like his *****.

bucketss
07-22-2013, 12:23 AM
When you say third best player.....do you mean the actual early 2000s Kobe vs the Prime LeBron? If so, then you might be right.

If you're talking about players in their primes facing each other....Kobe and Shaq respectively hands down are the best players in the series(Giving the edge to Kobe here)

kobe(prime) hands down better than lebron lebron today? I DON'T THINK SO PAL.

bucketss
07-22-2013, 12:27 AM
kobe(prime) hands down better than lebron lebron today? I DON'T THINK SO PAL.

also wade in his prime, is just as good as kobe/lebron. people forget that, he just hasn't had a very long prime. because of injuries.

Chronz
07-22-2013, 12:28 AM
why are you confused?
Because you said I came into the thread with the same mindset, and it seems you are now presuming Im saying the opposite. Neither is the case, I am simply asking question about your take.


My point was, why would Riley have even put together the trio as is, knowing Shaq was waiting for them? You simply assumed they did put it together, and were looking for a trade to get the end result I pointed to.

I didn't assume anything, I was simply giving viable options which was not limited to simply trades. And TBH, their best way of acquiring those players would be to have a player of Bosh's caliber as a bargaining chip.

Again, Im not confused about the theory, Im just interested in hearing the end result you speak of. WHO do you think would be an adequate player to help the Heat in this matchup?

ArmLaker
07-22-2013, 12:29 AM
kobe(prime) hands down better than lebron lebron today? I DON'T THINK SO PAL.

Ok alright not to the level of MJ vs Reggie Miller better, but still when you take into the talent and athleticism and fuse it with Kobe's defensive tenacity(at the time of course), skill, footwork and every offensive arsenal in the book.....then yes my friend the nod goes to Kobe.....let's not forget Kobe can do given a reasonable supporting cast

ArmLaker
07-22-2013, 12:30 AM
also wade in his prime, is just as good as kobe/lebron. people forget that, he just hasn't had a very long prime. because of injuries.

Wade was great in his prime....I'm not going to lie.....but to put him on Kobe and LeBron's level? I just don't see it brother.

NYYCowboys
07-22-2013, 12:33 AM
I would love to see a Shaq-Bosh matchup. I don't think Bosh would make it out of that series alive.

Purple_n_Gold
07-22-2013, 12:35 AM
he went away from it, he didnt stink lol. did you watch the 2012 finals? he never left the post, and he made durant look like his *****.
So why doesn't he do it all the time? He went away from something that's "unstoppable?" Why for a new challenge? I did watch the finals and I obviously didn't come away with the same things you did. Also if you didn't think his post game was below average the rest of the playoffs then I don't know what to say. James has many outstanding amazing talents, as of now working in the post is not one of them.

bucketss
07-22-2013, 12:50 AM
So why doesn't he do it all the time? He went away from something that's "unstoppable?" Why for a new challenge? I did watch the finals and I obviously didn't come away with the same things you did. Also if you didn't think his post game was below average the rest of the playoffs then I don't know what to say. James has many outstanding amazing talents, as of now working in the post is not one of them.

how did you come to the conclusion his post game was average when he rarley went there? there isnt a really big enough sample to make a clear judgement, i would understand if he went there and he kept tripping or missing than you can call it average. he uses his post game when he has a clear size advantage there, kobe/durant are clear advantages. plus he also runs pg and thats what hes best at that so hes usually preoccupied with that. i also can't name one sf who has a better post game than bron other than melo, can you?

HouRealCoach
07-22-2013, 12:55 AM
When you say third best player.....do you mean the actual early 2000s Kobe vs the Prime LeBron? If so, then you might be right.

If you're talking about players in their primes facing each other....Kobe and Shaq respectively hands down are the best players in the series(Giving the edge to Kobe here)

No Kobe won 2 MVP's, 2 Season MVP's, Leading NBA in PER... Kobe with Shaq did nothing close to that

Purple_n_Gold
07-22-2013, 01:04 AM
how did you come to the conclusion his post game was average when he rarley went there? there isnt a really big enough sample to make a clear judgement, i would understand if he went there and he kept tripping or missing than you can call it average. he uses his post game when he has a clear size advantage there, kobe/durant are clear advantages. plus he also runs pg and thats what hes best at that so hes usually preoccupied with that. i also can't name one sf who has a better post game than bron other than melo, can you?
It should be limited to sf. In today's game forwards are forwards for the most part. Paul pierce,David west, just off the top of my head but I'm not comparing his post game to others at that position, why would I? You either have a post game or you don't. This is not a comparison of current small forwards he's the best no question. He still has a mediocre post game at best I don't understand what the point of comparing other players post games to his. Any position player can have a post game.

ArmLaker
07-22-2013, 01:06 AM
No Kobe won 2 MVP's, 2 Season MVP's, Leading NBA in PER... Kobe with Shaq did nothing close to that

Shaq 3 straight finals MVPs.....LeBron has yet to do that, and outside of the regular season MVPs Kobe has pretty much already accomplished what LeBron has.....3 straight Finals.....lose 1 and win back to back

Kobe in his prime was more deadly and equally unstoppable as LeBron if not more.....LeBron uses his Size and Athleticism to his advantage.....Kobe used a combo of speed, finesse, and overall higher skill level....something that doesn't necessarily fade over time. Him entering his 18th year in the league at almost 35 years of age is a testament to that my friend.

ArmLaker
07-22-2013, 01:07 AM
It should be limited to sf. In today's game forwards are forwards for the most part. Paul pierce,David west, just off the top of my head but I'm not comparing his post game to others at that position, why would I? You either have a post game or you don't. This is not a comparison of current small forwards he's the best no question. He still has a mediocre post game at best I don't understand what the point of comparing other players post games to his. Any position player can have a post game.

I think the only non-big who actually mastered it or is skilled enough to be solid at it is Kobe Bryant.

Purple_n_Gold
07-22-2013, 01:11 AM
I think the only non-big who actually mastered it or is skilled enough to be solid at it is Kobe Bryant.
Yea there are quite a few others who do a good job also. Melo , Andre miller, david west come to mind.

bucketss
07-22-2013, 01:12 AM
It should be limited to sf. In today's game forwards are forwards for the most part. Paul pierce,David west, just off the top of my head but I'm not comparing his post game to others at that position, why would I? You either have a post game or you don't. This is not a comparison of current small forwards he's the best no question. He still has a mediocre post game at best I don't understand what the point of comparing other players post games to his. Any position player can have a post game.

well at the end of the day, his 'mediocre' post game would destroy kobe in the post if they even tried thinking about throwing kobe at him.

bucketss
07-22-2013, 01:13 AM
Yea there are quite a few others who do a good job also. Melo , Andre miller, david west come to mind.

lol andre miller is 'good' but lebron is mediocre smh. btw david west is a big man.

ArmLaker
07-22-2013, 01:14 AM
Yea there are quite a few others who do a good job also. Melo , Andre miller, david west come to mind.

I forgot about Melo man......although in today's NBA i would classify West as a "big".

naps
07-22-2013, 01:22 AM
were talking about peak defensive kobe here. he would have SHUT DOWN this older version of wade HARD.

Really? Kobe was a very good defender back in the days but he's always been overrated as a defender. And if you want to SHUT DOWN Wade HARD, you'll expend so much energy so the defensive end that you probably won't be a factor on the other end. Not to mention, I LAUGH at this notion of "SHUT DOWN Wade HARD" thing.

Now let's say I'll just take your statement for argument's sake. I mentioned in my same post which you quoted that you put Kobe on Wade but who defends LeBron? Who defends Bosh? LeBron would simply destroy anyone sent to him. What about the role players?


we shouldnt be talking about the 2003 and 2004 Lakers, and shouldn't talking about the 2011 Heat. were should be talking about these teams as their championship incarnations.


Why not? Did OP specifically set this criteria? I mentioned 2003 and 2004 to prove the Lakers were very much beat-able unlike most people here are trying to make them look like. And should we remember that Kings series? Chris Webber and Co took down the Shaq-Kobe combo (Thanks to Stern).

Bostonjorge
07-22-2013, 02:55 AM
Kobe's offensive game is better then lebron and wade's D. Those guys will get in foul trouble trying to stop kobe from making impossible shot's and getting dunked on.

kblo247
07-22-2013, 03:16 AM
Remember when an old Shaq dropped like 50 on Prime Chris Bosh?

Yes. I also remember 08 Kobe locking Wades *** down, while he only got off with Ariza on him when Kobe rested. Even old Kobe can contain Wade until the pick comes to free him, let alone young Frobe.

The thing people are forgetting is we are talking Kobe before the 4 knee surgeries, before arthritic hands, before an ankle surgery, and before shoulder surgery all of which happened after the 03 playoffs. He athletically during the 3 peat was great and had never been cut on before at all. We are talking in shape Shaq, not the guy with the toe or near 400lbs. They would feast. Not only would those two feast. Reggie Miller was held to the worst game of his career to start those finals before Rose undercut Kobe, as Kobe put the same clamps on his *** that he has put on Iverson to hold him scoreless for a half at one point.

Fisher was good defensively in 01, he was god like from 3 when they swept the spurs, I mean 75%; hell fisher dunked back then on fast breaks. The notion Chalmers or Cole would bother him is laughable. Fisher hurt his feet in the 02 season. He lost a step then but 01 Fisher was pressing guys full court all game out west when they swept teams.

Then there's Fox and Horry. Whoever a non operated on and fully athletic number 8 wearing Kobe did not take out of Bron and Wade, Fox is wrestling with. Fox would wrestle, he would hit, he would push, he would make Battier tenacity look like rec league stuff, just ask Peja about the nitemares he had even getting thru picks with Fox on him and why his legs were always gone late. Wades only way he even scores on Kobe to this day is relying on a pick as he can't ISO or post him. The fact he relies on picks is why Fox would be on him as he was the guy they used to chase Peja around and those types.

And Horry, the guy who defended Sheed, KG, Tim, Webber, and Kenyon on Bosh, lord that would be funny to watch. Its laughable to say who gets Bosh when Horry got prime KG, Sheed, Tim, KMart, and C Webb. Its also laughable to think he wouldn't have to be accounted for right back in the playoffs and spread the floor out along with Fish and Fox.

To steal from Meek Mills, there's levels to this ****. Kobe and Shaqs 3 peat team were on a different level especially in 01 where they were the best playoff team on history.

I will give Bron some credit and say he would be effective someway, somehow, but Wade wouldn't be. They would put him on his *** and they would torture him. Kobe in 01 dropped 40 and 10+ on the Spurs Towers, he would attack their paint, Shaq would attack the ru Paul of bigs, and the laker role players would be better than Miamis role guys. In fact they may step up over Bosh and possibly wade because often times they faced better than those two just to get out the west.

From the argument sake we then really focus on Shaw and George who were hitting big shots well before the likes of Haslem, Battier, and Miller and won in many hostile environments. These are the same cats who came back from down 30 once upon a time in the fourth quarter by hitting every big shot and getting every big stop. They werent "as talented" but I will be damned if anyone can say they didnt get their ****ing jobs done next to Kobe and Shaq. Any other place and all 5 of their jerseys go up there with Kobe and Shaq without a second thought

kblo247
07-22-2013, 04:35 AM
Perspective - Kobe and Shaq almost produced as much as those 3. They made teams their *****, asked how do you want it like tupac to a bunch of west teams that would give Miami hell

http://i44.tinypic.com/4si8f7.jpg

dalton749
07-22-2013, 07:15 AM
why he no talk about prime wade, but 7 years worth of lakers

b@llhog24
07-22-2013, 09:44 AM
Because Kobe was a elite defender in his prime, Durant isn't and won't be. Even last year when both were in the post Kobe took lebron to school

Doesn't matter. He doesn't have the length, nor the strength to stop him. At least KD had length.

Chronz
07-22-2013, 11:43 AM
The only thing that would give me worry for LA is Shaq's propensity for lax PnR defense, particularly after the 01 run. He always had his problems but they were more mental lapses, in 02 and beyond they became more of a conditioning problem. His PnR defense was very sporadic after that point but thats not the Shaq we are looking at right.

bucketss
07-22-2013, 12:10 PM
Kobe's offensive game is better then lebron and wade's D. Those guys will get in foul trouble trying to stop kobe from making impossible shot's and getting dunked on.

what about prime battier ;)

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-22-2013, 12:20 PM
This is a tough one.

I am not quite sure to be honest, but I think I'd give it to Miami by a slight edge.

People are underrating Miami because of how high the expectations were. The expectations were unnaturally high.

Those Lakers teams had there flaws too and while I think they had tougher competition than the Miami teams (leading up to the finals at least), when I look at the matchups I still think Miami would win (despite the dominance of Shaq).

Its tough to say though because we will never see them play against each other.

valade16
07-22-2013, 12:54 PM
Shaq 3 straight finals MVPs.....LeBron has yet to do that, and outside of the regular season MVPs Kobe has pretty much already accomplished what LeBron has.....3 straight Finals.....lose 1 and win back to back

Kobe in his prime was more deadly and equally unstoppable as LeBron if not more.....LeBron uses his Size and Athleticism to his advantage.....Kobe used a combo of speed, finesse, and overall higher skill level....something that doesn't necessarily fade over time. Him entering his 18th year in the league at almost 35 years of age is a testament to that my friend.

Seems a little disingenuous to say he hasn't done that considering he has won the last 2 and the Heat are the favorites to win for a 3rd straight year. My question is, in the same way that you are using Shaq's 3 Finals MVPs as a point for your argument, can the other side use LeBron's 2 MVPs to Shaq's 1 as an argument for their side?

Also, the 2nd bolded is not true. This year's LeBron was better than any season from Kobe ever. He was either the best or 2nd best defender on the season while being the most efficient offensive player. Now that he has learned how to shoot there's really no way to argue Kobe was better at any individual point.

Also, as for the longevity of Kobe, that doesn't matter because we aren't talking their careers we're talking in their primes, which group would win. So that point is irrelevant.

LoveMeOrHateMe
07-22-2013, 02:31 PM
Doesn't matter. He doesn't have the length, nor the strength to stop him. At least KD had length.

You clearly didnt see Kobe defend In his prime then

Hawkeye15
07-22-2013, 02:50 PM
When you say third best player.....do you mean the actual early 2000s Kobe vs the Prime LeBron? If so, then you might be right.

If you're talking about players in their primes facing each other....Kobe and Shaq respectively hands down are the best players in the series(Giving the edge to Kobe here)

I mean:

Shaq
LeBron (they will end up switching places)
Kobe
Wade
Bosh

in order.

Hawkeye15
07-22-2013, 02:55 PM
Because you said I came into the thread with the same mindset, and it seems you are now presuming Im saying the opposite. Neither is the case, I am simply asking question about your take.


I didn't assume anything, I was simply giving viable options which was not limited to simply trades. And TBH, their best way of acquiring those players would be to have a player of Bosh's caliber as a bargaining chip.

Again, Im not confused about the theory, Im just interested in hearing the end result you speak of. WHO do you think would be an adequate player to help the Heat in this matchup?

at the time of the impending free agency? Tyson Chandler and Ronny Turiaf for example (only real impactful defensive centers I could find that year). Otherwise, you try and flip Bosh for a Hibbert for example, or even send Wade for Marc Gasol/Tony Allen, and sign shooters to at least keep LA having to keep up with some firepower. A Chalmers, Allen, LeBron, Bosh, Gasol frontcourt with shooters and defenders might realistically be able to compete against those early 2000's Laker teams.

bucketss
07-22-2013, 03:15 PM
You clearly didnt see Kobe defend In his prime then

i do remember an old scottie abusing him in the post a few times.

beliges
07-22-2013, 03:25 PM
i do remember an old scottie abusing him in the post a few times.

LOL. Scottie actually had a post game though. Lebron unfortunately does not have a reliable post game at this point in his career. He has improved from having no post game whatsoever, but still has no reliable post up game. So using his "post game" as a way to show his offensive superiority is kind of silly.