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Mile High Champ
07-20-2013, 01:45 AM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 6th year I have done this on PSD and it always brings some great discussion and debate. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron James and the Miami Heat are back to back NBA champions after an exciting 7 game series win over the Spurs. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 5 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

Due to some people complaining that the rule was not written for the PG poll; in order to be eligible for these rankings, players must of played in 10 or more games last season. Thank you.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


2013 Off-Season PSD SG Rankings
1) James Harden
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Dwyane Wade
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2012 Off-Season PSD SG Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Manu Ginobili
4) James Harden
5) Joe Johnson
6) Monta Ellis
7) Eric Gordon
8) Paul George
9) Kevin Martin
10) Ray Allen

2011 Off-Season PSD SG Rankings

1) Dwyane Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Manu Ginobili
4) Joe Johnson
5) Monta Ellis
6) Kevin Martin
7) Ray Allen
8) Eric Gordon
9) Jason Terry
10) James Harden

2010 Off-Season SG Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Monta Ellis
7) Ray Allen
8) Stephen Jackson
9) O.J. Mayo
10) Jason Richardson

2009 Off-Season SG Rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6) Manu Ginobili
7) Ray Allen
8) Kevin Martin
9) Ben Gordon
10) Richard Hamilton

2008 Off-Season SG rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Allen Iverson
5) Manu Ginobili
5) Vince Carter
7) Joe Johnson
8) Ray Allen
9) Brandon Roy
10) Kevin Martin

Mile High Champ
07-20-2013, 01:48 AM
mods please sticky.

5ass
07-20-2013, 01:58 AM
You can skip this, theres no other answer.

tredigs
07-20-2013, 02:00 AM
Well, Paul George is a small forward now, not a shooting guard. Their SG's Lance Stephenson. Might wanna edit that.

sunsfan88
07-20-2013, 03:55 AM
Well, Paul George is a small forward now, not a shooting guard. Their SG's Lance Stephenson. Might wanna edit that.

George is their SG, he only played SF cause Granger was injured. Now that Granger is back, George will go back to being the SG.

sunsfan88
07-20-2013, 03:57 AM
Bigger question is, is #5 Beal, Ellis, or Thompson?

Or is it gonna be one of the old guys in Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin and Jamal Crawford?

Choices, choices, choices...

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 04:06 AM
Ellis shouldn't be touching top five. Beal has a ton of potential, but he's not the fifth best.

I'd probably give it to Crawford or Martin.

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 04:10 AM
Holy **** PSD had Ray Allen at number eight in 08?

Holy **** guys.

tredigs
07-20-2013, 04:27 AM
George is their SG, he only played SF cause Granger was injured. Now that Granger is back, George will go back to being the SG.

Maybe, maybe not. Granger could just take over the 6th man role or be traded for all we know. What we know for sure is that George was their small forward all season, though. -shrug


Bigger question is, is #5 Beal, Ellis, or Thompson?

Or is it gonna be one of the old guys in Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin and Jamal Crawford?

Choices, choices, choices...

Those are some ugly propositions. Who knows.

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 04:46 AM
I might vote Eric Gordon. He would have been great if not for injuries.

SugeKnight
07-20-2013, 05:44 AM
George
Ellis
Johnson
Thompson
Crawford
Manu
Gordon

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 05:53 AM
Ellis is not better than Johnson, Thompson, Crawford, Manu, or Gordon. That's ridiculous.

JasonJohnHorn
07-20-2013, 07:25 AM
Paul George played small forward this year... I mentioned this on the first poll..... why is he still listed as a shooting guard?

Sportfan
07-20-2013, 09:26 AM
Bigger question is, is #5 Beal, Ellis, or Thompson?

Or is it gonna be one of the old guys in Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin and Jamal Crawford?

Choices, choices, choices...

Beal

Sportfan
07-20-2013, 09:27 AM
I might vote Eric Gordon. He would have been great if not for injuries.
EWWWWWWWWW NOOOOOOO
Seriously look at his numbers. Gordon is nothing but trash

ManRam
07-20-2013, 10:01 AM
MHC said in the first SG poll that George would be included as a SG because he will play that this upcoming season. I'm not sure that's set in stone, but he did lay it out earlier. I still think he's much more of a true 3 than a 2, but whatever.

He's the pick here.

SteBO
07-20-2013, 11:35 AM
Clearly Paul George....

nycericanguy
07-20-2013, 11:45 AM
Seriously George at SG here makes no sense. He's 6'10 230 and played SF all year.

We're putting him as a SG just on a hunch that Granger comes back healthy and immediately starts next year?

That's pretty dumb... even if Granger comes back 100% he could come off the bench.

NBA-GMaster
07-20-2013, 11:53 AM
you can close this and move to #5 now..

birdmann5
07-20-2013, 12:36 PM
Paul George
Klay Thompson
Joe Johnson
Gordon Hayward
Should all be considered for this list.

kozelkid
07-20-2013, 01:12 PM
MHC said in the first SG poll that George would be included as a SG because he will play that this upcoming season. I'm not sure that's set in stone, but he did lay it out earlier. I still think he's much more of a true 3 than a 2, but whatever.

He's the pick here.

Ya, I guess I accept that logic. But then, with some of the names on here (Henderson, Crawford, Green, etc.), Jimmy Butler should be added soon. Especially given that Thibs already said that he'll be the starting 2.

jimm120
07-20-2013, 01:25 PM
George
Ellis
Johnson
Thompson
Crawford
Manu
Gordon

So...Gordon doesn't play for 2 years and the bit he plays this year he sucked. Crawford was solid. JR Smith beat Craw for the 6th man. And somehow BOTH of them are ahead of JR Smith in your ranking?

SugeKnight
07-20-2013, 02:03 PM
So...Gordon doesn't play for 2 years and the bit he plays this year he sucked. Crawford was solid. JR Smith beat Craw for the 6th man. And somehow BOTH of them are ahead of JR Smith in your ranking?
I don't like jr smith :shrug:

tredigs
07-20-2013, 03:02 PM
MHC said in the first SG poll that George would be included as a SG because he will play that this upcoming season. I'm not sure that's set in stone, but he did lay it out earlier. I still think he's much more of a true 3 than a 2, but whatever.

He's the pick here.

Gotchya - and yeah, no other pick here. It's a much easier skip than him versus Wade to me.

koreancabbage
07-20-2013, 03:21 PM
George for sure if he is on this list.

Granger coming back and on the bench is speculation. he could be starting for all we know.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-20-2013, 03:35 PM
Edit: never mind didnt see JR was listed

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 05:30 PM
EWWWWWWWWW NOOOOOOO
Seriously look at his numbers. Gordon is nothing but trash

He was trash this year, but that's because his knees were all ****ed up. Last time he was fully healthy he played good defense and scored efficiently.

TrueFan420
07-20-2013, 05:37 PM
Well, Paul George is a small forward now, not a shooting guard. Their SG's Lance Stephenson. Might wanna edit that.
This

George is their SG, he only played SF cause Granger was injured. Now that Granger is back, George will go back to being the SG.
He's playing out of position tho. He's a sf. The reason he played sg was cause they wanted their best players on the court. That's like calling Marion a pf during his sun days. He was sf playing out of position.

jimm120
07-20-2013, 06:28 PM
He was trash this year, but that's because his knees were all ****ed up. Last time he was fully healthy he played good defense and scored efficiently.

And that's the thing.

Gordan played well in 2010. 2011 he sucked and was injured. 2012 he was injured but did play more. He played more but he still sucked. He was not good.

So you're pretty much rewarding him for being good ruing the 2010-11 season. Ludicrous.

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 06:42 PM
And that's the thing.

Gordan played well in 2010. 2011 he sucked and was injured. 2012 he was injured but did play more. He played more but he still sucked. He was not good.

So you're pretty much rewarding him for being good ruing the 2010-11 season. Ludicrous.

I figured he was the fourth best when healthy and we are voting who's the best right now. I will consider this a grey area.

jimm120
07-20-2013, 06:50 PM
I figured he was the fourth best when healthy and we are voting who's the best right now. I will consider this a grey area.

Yeah, but 2 years of low production...c'mon.

Its like me trying to say that Amare is sitll a top 3 PF just because in 2010-11 season he played like the best PF. And at least Amare had a track record of elite play before that. Gordan was an up and comer and finally "broke out" that 1 year. Since then its been out with injuries and even if playing, playing not well.

I'm just saying. No reason for Gordan to be anywhere near these top 10 lists.

rlendensky
07-20-2013, 06:55 PM
Paul George is leaps and bounds better than everyone you just named.

Iggz53
07-20-2013, 07:02 PM
I have to say, I'm pretty surprised. I was pretty torn between George and Manu before picking George and seeing the results, ultimately for his defense and ability to play much more minutes. I know Manu had a finals to forget but man, I thought he'd get just a little more love here. I'm voting him next on the list.

Guppyfighter
07-20-2013, 07:23 PM
Yeah, but 2 years of low production...c'mon.

Its like me trying to say that Amare is sitll a top 3 PF just because in 2010-11 season he played like the best PF. And at least Amare had a track record of elite play before that. Gordan was an up and comer and finally "broke out" that 1 year. Since then its been out with injuries and even if playing, playing not well.

I'm just saying. No reason for Gordan to be anywhere near these top 10 lists.

Amare is different. He has a degenerative knee condition. He's never going to be the same. Gordon may very well be. And there are a lot more good PF's than good SG's.

nolafan33
07-20-2013, 09:30 PM
George should undoubtedly be considered a SF, not a SG.

Even if Granger does come back healthy he will likely come off the bench.

tredigs
07-20-2013, 09:40 PM
I have to say, I'm pretty surprised. I was pretty torn between George and Manu before picking George and seeing the results, ultimately for his defense and ability to play much more minutes. I know Manu had a finals to forget but man, I thought he'd get just a little more love here. I'm voting him next on the list.

Only played 23mpg in the reg season for the 2nd straight year while again missing a bunch of games due to injury. Then sucked in the post-season. One of my favorites, but I can't get on board with Manu any more.

TrueFan420
07-21-2013, 01:56 AM
I have to say, I'm pretty surprised. I was pretty torn between George and Manu before picking George and seeing the results, ultimately for his defense and ability to play much more minutes. I know Manu had a finals to forget but man, I thought he'd get just a little more love here. I'm voting him next on the list.

Manu hasn't been manu for nearly two years. One of favorite players but injuries and age have taken his career now.

SportsFanatic10
07-21-2013, 02:08 AM
gotta be george here

Iggz53
07-21-2013, 02:13 AM
Only played 23mpg in the reg season for the 2nd straight year while again missing a bunch of games due to injury. Then sucked in the post-season. One of my favorites, but I can't get on board with Manu any more.

I may be voting a bit differently in that case. I'm voting for the player I would want on my team because he's the best at his position, and I think many are voting for who had the best season, and some a combination of the two. I don't think there's a wrong mindset, but I do think Manu is close to George in terms of impact.

Though you are right, his diminished minutes can't be disregarded. If he can't play heavy minutes, it's a big deal.

NYKnicks4511
07-21-2013, 02:38 AM
George here, no doubt. Never thought I'd say this, but give me J.R. at #5

God damn the SG position is weak.

Guppyfighter
07-21-2013, 03:31 AM
George here, no doubt. Never thought I'd say this, but give me J.R. at #5

God damn the SG position is weak.

Jamal is better than JR Smith.

tredigs
07-21-2013, 03:55 AM
57-3. Pretty close vote!

nycericanguy
07-21-2013, 12:20 PM
Jamal is better than JR Smith.

It's close, JC was a bit more efficient on offense, though in less volume... but JR was better overall

KnickaBocka.44
07-21-2013, 01:50 PM
A manu vote can't be justified at this point. He is clearly regressing on both ends, and players like JR, George, Hayward and others are all better than him now and into the future. There isn't really any chance Manu will find his old form.

Iggz53
07-21-2013, 02:59 PM
A manu vote can't be justified at this point. He is clearly regressing on both ends, and players like JR, George, Hayward and others are all better than him now and into the future. There isn't really any chance Manu will find his old form.

Well yeah, he's regressing and not at his old form, but he's still a better player than JR and Hayward for sure. On both ends.

THE MTL
07-21-2013, 03:38 PM
So is George a SG or SF?

sunsfan88
07-21-2013, 03:55 PM
Monta Ellis or Kevin Martin at #5, c'mon guys don't mess this up.

Allphakenny1
07-21-2013, 04:16 PM
Without looking up the stats, I would think the next vote should be for Klay Thompson or Joe Johnson. So not sure how Ellis or Martin would be messing things up.

b@llhog24
07-21-2013, 04:29 PM
So is George a SG or SF?

He's a wing.

Guppyfighter
07-21-2013, 06:09 PM
Monta Ellis or Kevin Martin at #5, c'mon guys don't mess this up.

LOL

God no

NYKnicks4511
07-21-2013, 06:26 PM
dub

NYKnicks4511
07-21-2013, 06:34 PM
Well yeah, he's regressing and not at his old form, but he's still a better player than JR and Hayward for sure. On both ends.

Definitely a better defensive player, but his D rating is a product of the system that he's in as well. Chandler is still not that same as having a guy like Duncan behind you. Plus, you'd have to factor in durability as well. Either way there's a compelling argument. #5 should be interesting.

ChiSox219
07-21-2013, 06:54 PM
Manu at #5

then any 5 of these 6:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=smithjr01&y1=2013&p2=evansty01&y2=2013&p3=martike02&y3=2013&p4=johnsjo02&y4=2013&p5=ellismo01&y5=2013&p6=gordoer01&y6=2013

Iggz53
07-21-2013, 07:31 PM
Definitely a better defensive player, but his D rating is a product of the system that he's in as well. Chandler is still not that same as having a guy like Duncan behind you. Plus, you'd have to factor in durability as well. Either way there's a compelling argument. #5 should be interesting.

I think at this point, Chandler is every bit as good as Duncan defensively. I don't use D stats as evidence very often because of how ridiculously misleading they are. Fact is, Manu is still a very capable defender. Not as aggresive as he was a few years ago, but he's still among the league's best all-around SG's. And yes, durability is the biggest concern for him, since he clearly can't play heavy minutes at this stage of his career.

Allphakenny1
07-21-2013, 07:54 PM
Manu at #5

then any 5 of these 6:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=smithjr01&y1=2013&p2=evansty01&y2=2013&p3=martike02&y3=2013&p4=johnsjo02&y4=2013&p5=ellismo01&y5=2013&p6=gordoer01&y6=2013

Manu is borderline to make my top 10, you are voting for him on reputation. Also, Klay Thompson is not even in your top 10?

mrblisterdundee
07-21-2013, 09:12 PM
Bigger question is, is #5 Beal, Ellis, or Thompson?

Or is it gonna be one of the old guys in Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin and Jamal Crawford?

Choices, choices, choices...

I'd say Ellis. Thompson's not a great defender, either, and Ellis is a better scorer.

Allphakenny1
07-21-2013, 09:20 PM
As a Warrior fan I have seen both Thompson and Ellis up close and I would take Thompson hands down. Not only is he a far far far better defender, he can guard any of the 1-3 positions. Way better shooter at the 3 point, mid range, and free throw line. Also, far more efficient.

Guppyfighter
07-21-2013, 09:56 PM
I'd say Ellis. Thompson's not a great defender, either, and Ellis is a better scorer.


Biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Klay is not only a more efficient scorer than Ellis, but Klay plays fantastic defense. He was the best perimeter defender on a team that had the fifth best three point percentage defense while allowing the second least amount of penetration.

http://www.mysynergysports.com/

Compare their defense and offense on here and it's not really close at all. Klay is better without a doubt.