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Tymathee
07-19-2013, 12:18 PM
I have a Rockets fan as a co-worker and I told him the Lakers would be the better team.

Of course he says I'm crazy, so I wanted to see what PSD thinks (and he actually views this site so he miiight just see this)

Sly Guy
07-19-2013, 12:20 PM
provide some reasons why you believe the lakers will be better than the rockets, it'll make for more interesting discussion.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 12:43 PM
I can't see any argument possible, that the Rockets win less games. They were essentially even last year, and now the Rockets have Howard, the Lakers don't.

beliges
07-19-2013, 12:44 PM
If Kobe, Nash and Pau are healthy there's no reason to believe the Lakers cant be every bit as good as the Rox in my opinion. With that said clearly the Rox have the better talent. But a healthy Kobe and Pau will make up for that. I don't know but I just don't put too much stock in Dwight. He is a major liability on the offensive end during crunch time.

2-ONE-5
07-19-2013, 12:48 PM
whats with all the threads asking who will win more games? this one is the most obvious of all

SugeKnight
07-19-2013, 12:50 PM
I can't see any argument possible, that the Rockets win less games. They were essentially even last year, and now the Rockets have Howard, the Lakers don't.

Exactly. Addition by subtraction

JordansBulls
07-19-2013, 12:52 PM
Didn't they have the same records last year but in last year's case, the Lakers had Dwight and the Rockets didn't. Now it is vice versa.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 12:54 PM
Healthy Lakers are better than the Rockets. If you dont believe that then your just a hater. It all depends on health

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 12:56 PM
Healthy Lakers are better than the Rockets. If you dont believe that then your just a hater. It all depends on health

seriously? That is probably the loosest use of that term I have seen. If you don't believe one team is better than another, you are a hater?

Cmon dude.

J4KOP99
07-19-2013, 12:58 PM
seriously? That is probably the loosest use of that term I have seen. If you don't believe one team is better than another, you are a hater?

Cmon dude.

Hawkeye, how long have you been on this site? And yet you still argue with Nickeydimez?

Hellcrooner
07-19-2013, 12:58 PM
I can't see any argument possible, that the Rockets win less games. They were essentially even last year, and now the Rockets have Howard, the Lakers don't.

there is ONE chance.
It relies on kobe, nahs, pau playing at least 77 games each, and doing it at least at 80% of their ability.

sadly dantoni still needs some brain surgery and he doesnt seem forward to taking it.

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 12:59 PM
I just can't stop rolling my eyes at folks that claim getting rid of Howard is somehow addition by subtraction for the Lakers. When before in the history of this league has a franchise claimed their team is better by losing the best player at a given position in the entire NBA and getting zippo in return? Sure Dwight was complacent at times last year, but he was also putting up respectable numbers for a man coming back way too early from a big injury, and carrying a separate injury.

Pau will be back in his preferred position, but the coach of the team still runs one of the most uncompromising systems in the NBA and they'll be without their main superstar (probably multiple stars) for at least a handful of games this year due to injury. That coupled with horrendous defense. And most likely an initial lack of chemistry.

Unless the Rockets literally devolve into an all out war zone due to chemistry issues.. there's no chance the Lakers finish above them. The difference is in the depth chart.

J4KOP99
07-19-2013, 01:00 PM
The Rockets SHOULD have the better record. I think that Houston ends up anywhere from the 2-5 seed (probably closer to the 5)

The Lakers can end up anywhere from 7th seed, to very, very bad. It depends on Kobe's health. But if everyone is healthy, I still don't think they get higher than the 7th seed.

-If I was Vegas, I'd say that if boths teams are fully healthy, that HOU is 9.5 games (wins) better.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 01:01 PM
Hawkeye, how long have you been on this site? And yet you still argue with Nickeydimez?

that one just sort of blew me away dude. You are a "hater" if you think the Rockets will win more games than the Lakers? Dang

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 01:02 PM
there is ONE chance.
It relies on kobe, nahs, pau playing at least 77 games each, and doing it at least at 80% of their ability.

sadly dantoni still needs some brain surgery and he doesnt seem forward to taking it.

it would also require injuries to either Dwight or Harden.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 01:03 PM
The Rockets SHOULD have the better record. I think that Houston ends up anywhere from the 2-5 seed (probably closer to the 5)

The Lakers can end up anywhere from 7th seed, to very, very bad. It depends on Kobe's health. But if everyone is healthy, I still don't think they get higher than the 7th seed.

-If I was Vegas, I'd say that if boths teams are fully healthy, that HOU is 9.5 games (wins) better.

that is about right. So many are claiming the Rox are just flat out contenders now. They will need a year to build chemistry, familiarity, etc imo. I see a 53-55 win season.

FOBolous
07-19-2013, 01:04 PM
seriously? That is probably the loosest use of that term I have seen. If you don't believe one team is better than another, you are a hater?

Cmon dude.

he's one of the lower denominators of the lakers forum. ignore him. he's been hating on the rockets and dwight howard ever since dwight howard chose to come to the rockets. he usually doesn't have anything to contribute to a discussion and if you corner him in a discussion, he'll just resort to calling you a hater. he even claims advanced numbers are dumb and that his opinions > advanced stats.

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 01:07 PM
Wow I'm an idiot. Voted for the Lakers on accident.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 01:07 PM
he's one of the lower denominators of the lakers forum. ignore him. he's been hating on the rockets and dwight howard ever since dwight howard chose to come to the rockets. he usually doesn't have anything to contribute to a discussion and if you corner him in a discussion, he'll just resort to calling you a hater. he even claims advanced numbers are dumb and that his opinions > advanced stats.

Oh, I am aware, that was just ridiculous.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 01:11 PM
So many experts on here it's laughable, Yes the Lakers lost Dwight and the Rockets gained Dwight, and they had close to the same record, but addition by subtraction is not going to work for this argument. First and foremost, the lakers were injured all of last year, changed coaches 5 games in and did not have 2 of there best players Pau and Nash as well as Hill and Blake being injured for a good portion of the season, yet they still had a better record. Not to mention the bench in La consisted of Morris, Duhon,Sacre, Jamison, Meeks and Clark. This year the bench is much improved.This Year the bench consists of Kaman, Blake, Young, Farmar, Wesley Johnson, Meeks, it's no comparison. Who's on the Rockets Bench, Beverly, Cassipi, Asik, Patterson, that will not get it done in the west. The Lakers Health, Full training camp, Chemistry, experience and bench give the Lakers the edge, those that dont agree, please explain to me why, the rockets will be so much better.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 01:12 PM
seriously? That is probably the loosest use of that term I have seen. If you don't believe one team is better than another, you are a hater?

Cmon dude.

Just how I feel. We all know how people on this site LOATHE the lakers. (You being one of them). No way you can tell me that a healthy Kobe, Nash, Pau isn't better than Dwight, harden, and lin... Kobe and Pau are winners, they know what it takes to win. No one on the Rockets can say that.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 01:14 PM
So many experts on here it's laughable, Yes the Lakers lost Dwight and the Rockets gained Dwight, and they had close to the same record, but addition by subtraction is not going to work for this argument. First and foremost, the lakers were injured all of last year, changed coaches 5 games in and did not have 2 of there best players Pau and Nash as well as Hill and Blake being injured for a good portion of the season, yet they still had a better record. Not to mention the bench in La consisted of Morris, Duhon,Sacre, Jamison, Meeks and Clark. This year the bench is much improved.This Year the bench consists of Kaman, Blake, Young, Farmar, Wesley Johnson, Meeks, it's no comparison. Who's on the Rockets Bench, Beverly, Cassipi, Asik, Patterson, that will not get it done in the west. The Lakers Health, Full training camp, Chemistry, experience and bench give the Lakers the edge, those that dont agree, please explain to me why, the rockets will be so much better.

talent and health

Kobe (who is expecting the same Kobe all year)/Gasol/Nash (40)
or
Harden/Dwight/Parsons

Rockets are simply going to have more top heavy talent, and will be healthier

Sly Guy
07-19-2013, 01:15 PM
lol, votes are even. I find that very amusing.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 01:19 PM
The Rockets SHOULD have the better record. I think that Houston ends up anywhere from the 2-5 seed (probably closer to the 5)

The Lakers can end up anywhere from 7th seed, to very, very bad. It depends on Kobe's health. But if everyone is healthy, I still don't think they get higher than the 7th seed.

-If I was Vegas, I'd say that if boths teams are fully healthy, that HOU is 9.5 games (wins) better.


This whole statement is absurd, how is Houston the 2 through the 5 seed, OKC, SA, Clips, GSW, Memphis are all better. And the Lakers will be much better than you think, the likely hood of Nash, Pau, Hill, Kobe, Blake all being injured as much as last year is highly unlikely, and no one seems to think chemistry matters anymore. Dwight never wanted to be in LA, he caused a division within the locker room, and chemistry issues on the court, the Lakers will be better than what most people think, Here is a stat for you, in the history of the Lakers, they have missed the Playoffs 4 times in 40 years, if you think a team consisting of Kobe, Pau and Nash will struggle that bad, you may be surprised

LAKobeBryant
07-19-2013, 01:21 PM
I can't see any argument possible, that the Rockets win less games. They were essentially even last year, and now the Rockets have Howard, the Lakers don't.

Doesn't work like that.
Two years ago lakers had fisher and bynum and did better than this year with nash and howard.
Not saying whos going have a better record but these discussion threads are pointless.
Same with OKC, better record with martin.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 01:26 PM
Doesn't work like that.
Two years ago lakers had fisher and bynum and did better than this year with nash and howard.
Not saying whos going have a better record but these discussion threads are pointless.
Same with OKC, better record with martin.

well that is why they play the games dude. But I don't see how a team with Kobe not being 100% at least for a portion of the season, a 40 year old Nash, Pau, and pretty much nothing else, coached by a guy who doesn't care about guarding anyone, is going to be better than the Rockets with Harden, Dwight, Parsons, and whatever additions Morey puts together along with a bench. Just don't see it.

But again, that is why they play the games.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 01:27 PM
he's one of the lower denominators of the lakers forum. ignore him. he's been hating on the rockets and dwight howard ever since dwight howard chose to come to the rockets. he usually doesn't have anything to contribute to a discussion and if you corner him in a discussion, he'll just resort to calling you a hater. he even claims advanced numbers are dumb and that his opinions > advanced stats.

lol. Laughable. I give my reasons everytime to you people. I just don't feel the need to write a long *** story about how I feel. Healthy Kobe, Nash, and Pau are a better core. Thats it. I dont care if im respected on this forum. 95% of the posters here are jokes. Your included. You have no real basketball knowledge at all. Hardly anyone here does. You have the people who use advanced to try and prove their basketball knowledge and thats hillarious. I don't even know who you are on this forum bro, im excited to see that you pay so close attention to me.....

Wait, arent you the guy that made the ridiculous claim about Yao Ming having 28 points, 5 blocks and 14 rebounds in his first game against shaq? And when i showed you the numbers and how grossly off you were, I didnt hear a peep? Oh yea ok...

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 01:29 PM
Oh, I am aware, that was just ridiculous.

And please. The only reason why anyone takes you serious is because your a mod and you're known for getting people banned that you don't like. Your opinion on my posting habits don't mean **** to me....

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 01:29 PM
talent and health

Kobe (who is expecting the same Kobe all year)/Gasol/Nash (40)
or
Harden/Dwight/Parsons

Rockets are simply going to have more top heavy talent, and will be healthier

Kobe- Harden= Harden maybe better, but you should know more than anyone never Doubt Kobe
Parsons-Nick Young= pretty close, but I will give it to Parsons
Lin-Nash= Nash 40 or not, he is still much better, In Dantoni system without Dwight, Nash will Flourish
Pau-Asik= Pau
Howard-Kaman or Hill= Howard

So Parsons and Howard have the advantage, but not overwhelming

Bench= LA
Coach= I dont care what anyone says, McHale has proved nothing at this point. Dantoni, one of only 3 coaches to beat Phil Jackson in a playoff series. I will take DAntoni.
History= Lakers
Health= Rockets
Defense=Rockets
Chemistry= Lakers, Dwight is a cancer, Rocket fans, come talk to me in January when Dwight begins his whining.

So to your point, yes Top heavy talent goes to the rockets, but that didnt do the Lakers any good last year, you guys are 1 Dwight injury or Harden Injury from being irrelevant. And dont say that cant happen, because it happens all the time, See, Dwight, Westbrook, Kobe, Rode, it happens.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 01:31 PM
And everyone saying how Kobe is this and Kobe is that are the same people who were saying that Kobe would "Decline" last season, yet he had one of his best statistical years to date. Thats why I use the word "hate", because you people hate this man.

TheIlladelph16
07-19-2013, 01:34 PM
Well considering I don't see the Lakers even making the playoffs, I'm going to say the Rockets easily here.

The idea that "It just depends on Kobe, Paul and Nash being healthy" makes me laugh. You are not getting a "healthy" 40 year old Nash or a 35 year old big man with injuries the last few years. It's just not happening, at least for 82 games. Then there's that whole torn Achilles thing with Kobe. The dude is a warrior and an all-time great, but I find it hard to believe he will step back in and play 82 games an a high enough level to overcome their deficiencies (mainly zero defense).

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 01:36 PM
Kobe- Harden= Harden maybe better, but you should know more than anyone never Doubt Kobe
Parsons-Nick Young= pretty close, but I will give it to Parsons
Lin-Nash= Nash 40 or not, he is still much better, In Dantoni system without Dwight, Nash will Flourish
Pau-Asik= Pau
Howard-Kaman or Hill= Howard

So Parsons and Howard have the advantage, but not overwhelming

Bench= LA
Coach= I dont care what anyone says, McHale has proved nothing at this point. Dantoni, one of only 3 coaches to beat Phil Jackson in a playoff series. I will take DAntoni.
History= Lakers
Health= Rockets
Defense=Rockets
Chemistry= Lakers, Dwight is a cancer, Rocket fans, come talk to me in January when Dwight begins his whining.

So to your point, yes Top heavy talent goes to the rockets, but that didnt do the Lakers any good last year, you guys are 1 Dwight injury or Harden Injury from being irrelevant. And dont say that cant happen, because it happens all the time, See, Dwight, Westbrook, Kobe, Rode, it happens.

nope. You haven't watched Parsons much, and don't understand stats at all if that is your view.

Look, the games will decide this. But on paper, and considering Kobe's injury and the age of Nash, and Gasol not playing well in Mike's system, there is nothing that leads me to believe the Lakers will win as many games as the Rockets.

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 01:37 PM
I love how nickdymez calls everyone else out for being a hater, and then proceeds to hate on them for having dissenting opinions. It's a discussion board in the NBA main forum bro, what did you expect.. a circle jerk for the Lakers? This is all just hypothetical discussion until the games are played. Then, we shall see who was right and who was not.

RLundi
07-19-2013, 01:38 PM
I think the better question is will Kobe Bryant play more games than the Rockets win?

tr3ymill3r
07-19-2013, 01:41 PM
To the original poster and the other 7 people who voted for the Lakers, you have had your PSD posting capabilities removed and you will be committed. The Lakers arguably were a better team last year and they had the exact same record. You, like Kobe have NO leg to stand on.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 01:44 PM
nope. You haven't watched Parsons much, and don't understand stats at all if that is your view.

Look, the games will decide this. But on paper, and considering Kobe's injury and the age of Nash, and Gasol not playing well in Mike's system, there is nothing that leads me to believe the Lakers will win as many games as the Rockets.

Pau did not play well because Dantonin had him at the 3 point line, this year he will be in the post, and Pau just turned 33, Nash still had a better year than Lin, and too many people on here are way too hyped on Parsons, I watched many games, he is a good player, but you are making it out, like the rockets have a big 3, that just isnt the case, and Harden shot more than Kobe Last year, Dwight will get annoyed by this eventually, he always does. Everyone thinks Dwight will just all of sudden be this perfect teammate, not going to happen, that dude is confused and immmature.

tr3ymill3r
07-19-2013, 01:45 PM
Healthy Lakers are better than the Rockets. If you dont believe that then your just a hater. It all depends on health

You're a biased idiot. Lakers theme song for the season: Baby Come Back.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 01:46 PM
To the original poster and the other 7 people who voted for the Lakers, you have had your PSD posting capabilities removed and you will be committed. The Lakers arguably were a better team last year and they had the exact same record. You, like Kobe have NO leg to stand on.


Shut up, Lakers were injured last year, and still finished with the better record, if the team was healthy and didnt change coaches, how many more wins would they have had, 10 maybe 15.

Federal Reserve
07-19-2013, 01:48 PM
Last season the Rockets finished with a better record than did the Lakers.

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 01:50 PM
To the original poster and the other 7 people who voted for the Lakers, you have had your PSD posting capabilities removed and you will be committed. The Lakers arguably were a better team last year and they had the exact same record. You, like Kobe have NO leg to stand on.

hahahahaha don't revoke my rights!! It was a horrible, horrible misclick. I feel very stupid having my name listed under that group right now.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 01:50 PM
You're a biased idiot. Lakers theme song for the season: Baby Come Back.

Who are you, dont call people idiots, because they dont agree with you, no one care Dwight left, get over it, this is the Lakers, no one man is bigger than the Lakers, we have moved on, so should you.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 01:50 PM
You're a biased idiot. Lakers theme song for the season: Baby Come Back.

I got banned 2 months for calling someone an idiot... You better watch it buddy!!!

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 01:51 PM
Last season the Rockets finished with a better record than did the Lakers.

No they didnt, Lakers were the 7 seed, Rockets 8

RLundi
07-19-2013, 01:54 PM
I got banned 2 months for calling someone an idiot... You better watch it buddy!!!

Much deserved :)

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 01:54 PM
nope. You haven't watched Parsons much, and don't understand stats at all if that is your view.

Look, the games will decide this. But on paper, and considering Kobe's injury and the age of Nash, and Gasol not playing well in Mike's system, there is nothing that leads me to believe the Lakers will win as many games as the Rockets.

The stats painted Parsons as a league average player last season. Played in the fastest offense in the NBA, making his per game stats very inflated, yet he had a PER of 15.3, just ever so slightly above the set league average of 15.

For reference, Jordan Farmar's last season with the Nets, he posted a PER of 17.4, and in his own second season it was 15.4.

Pau had a PER of 16.7
Nash had a PER of 16.0
Heck, Kaman last year had a PER of 16.3

So we have 4 Lakers' (two bench players) whose last seasons in the NBA trumped Parsons'.

So unless you are expecting Parsons to make the jump into an All- Star caliber player, which he is not at all right now (he was a good shooter in an offense that gave him over 12 shots a game and a USG% over 18) then no, the Rockets are clearly not "more top heavy". And for Parsons to make that jump is not realistic at all. He's going to be the third option in a team that is probably going to slow down considerably to cater to Dwight.

So with a healthy, deeper Laker team and Pau playing Center (his natural position) it is not far fetched at all to say the Lakers are better than the Rockets. We know how Kobe and Pau work as a tandem and in the pick and roll (championship level ball) yet we have yet to see Howard and Harden.

All the while those two prefer two different offenses and Howard refuses to play hard in the pick and roll game

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 01:56 PM
Who are you, dont call people idiots, because they dont agree with you, no one care Dwight left, get over it, this is the Lakers, no one man is bigger than the Lakers, we have moved on, so should you.

You speak about the Lakers as if they're some kind of religion. If you lost Kobe last season and got nothing in return for him, would you still be saying the same things? You don't just automatically get to have a great team every year, simply because you're a dynasty. If you roster suggests you'll be struggling to make the 8th seed in the West.. that's probably what will happen. Again I'm not saying that definitively, the season will show us what is to come.

Tons of people care that Dwight left. Particularly Rockets fans. Lakers fans just like to pretend that these things didn't happen.

That's a lot of commas man.

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 01:57 PM
I think the better question is will Kobe Bryant play more games than the Rockets win?

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9490675/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-return-preseason-jim-buss-says

http://tracking.si.com/2013/07/18/kobe-bryant-injury-return-recovery-preseason-jerry-buss-lakers/

PhillyFaninLA
07-19-2013, 01:58 PM
Kobe coming back from a significant injury, an old Nash, I've never been a Pau guy....I don't see how they win more then Lin, Harden, Dwight, Asok

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 02:00 PM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9490675/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-return-preseason-jim-buss-says

http://tracking.si.com/2013/07/18/kobe-bryant-injury-return-recovery-preseason-jerry-buss-lakers/

Ricky Rubio was ahead of schedule like this as well. Didn't return until December, and didn't play like himself until late January, early February. I'm not saying that Kobe will be the same, because I think his work ethic and dedication will probably get him back earlier. I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely he misses no games, and if he does come back opening day it's even more unlikely he plays like his normal self (as much as I'd love to see that happen, because I love Kobe at the top of his game).

sunsfan88
07-19-2013, 02:00 PM
I'm going Lakers. They will finally get to run the offense that D'Antoni wanted with nobody complaining or *****ing.

And one thing we should know, when people count out the Lakers, they come stronger than ever. When people overrate the Lakers, they suck ****.

Plus I think Dwight will probably miss a few if not a lot of games due to injury and I think his inability as a closer to close out games and poor FT shooting will hinder Houston.

It will be close though. HOU had the better team on paper but lets how that turns out.

PhillyFaninLA
07-19-2013, 02:00 PM
that is about right. So many are claiming the Rox are just flat out contenders now. They will need a year to build chemistry, familiarity, etc imo. I see a 53-55 win season.

While I don't agree that they will win 53 - 55 (nor do I think its ridiculous), I have to say you make a fantastic point about chemistry

RLundi
07-19-2013, 02:01 PM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9490675/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-return-preseason-jim-buss-says

http://tracking.si.com/2013/07/18/kobe-bryant-injury-return-recovery-preseason-jerry-buss-lakers/

I won't buy it until I see him on the floor. And just because he comes back doesn't mean he'll be completely healthy. I think it'll be a lingering concern the entire season. I'll be surprised if he plays 65 games.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:03 PM
The stats painted Parsons as a league average player last season. Played in the fastest offense in the NBA, making his per game stats very inflated, yet he had a PER of 15.3, just ever so slightly above the set league average of 15.

For reference, Jordan Farmar's last season with the Nets, he posted a PER of 17.4, and in his own second season it was 15.4.

Pau had a PER of 16.7
Nash had a PER of 16.0
Heck, Kaman last year had a PER of 16.3

So we have 4 Lakers' (two bench players) whose last seasons in the NBA trumped Parsons'.

So unless you are expecting Parsons to make the jump into an All- Star caliber player, which he is not at all right now (he was a good shooter in an offense that gave him over 12 shots a game and a USG% over 18) then no, the Rockets are clearly not "more top heavy". And for Parsons to make that jump is not realistic at all. He's going to be the third option in a team that is probably going to slow down considerably to cater to Dwight.

So with a healthy, deeper Laker team and Pau playing Center (his natural position) it is not far fetched at all to say the Lakers are better than the Rockets. We know how Kobe and Pau work as a tandem and in the pick and roll (championship level ball) yet we have yet to see Howard and Harden.

All the while those two prefer two different offenses and Howard refuses to play hard in the pick and roll game

I am referring to the incline across the board as well for Parsons, from year 1, to year 2, and what is expected in year 3 and beyond. Going into this season, he will be a much better player than Nick Young can dream of. Look at his TS%, eFG%, defensive potential, the ability to play different positions, etc. The Rockets trio is simply much better.

ArmLaker
07-19-2013, 02:03 PM
Lake Show

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 02:04 PM
And one thing we should know, when people count out the Lakers, they come stronger than ever. When people overrate the Lakers, they suck ****.

Should be interesting to see what happens. We've got one contingent probably overrating them, and another probably underrating them on this site. Does this mean they finish middle of the road? :shrug:

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 02:11 PM
I am referring to the incline across the board as well for Parsons, from year 1, to year 2, and what is expected in year 3 and beyond. Going into this season, he will be a much better player than Nick Young can dream of. Look at his TS%, eFG%, defensive potential, the ability to play different positions, etc. The Rockets trio is simply much better.

Hehe, you'll notice I didn't mention Nick Young for a reason. Besides, there is no way Nick Young is the Lakers' third best player. So random reference there. If we go by pure stats, Young will be the Lakers 6th player at best, but I bet Jordan Hill has a good season, so I'll say 7th.

And yes, I acknowledged Parsons as a good (great even) shooter, so I know what his TS% and eFG% is. It's still all potential in an offense that will no longer feature him as a top two option in a slower paced offense that points to him not making a significant jump as people here think. So no, their trio is not "much better". Any Parsons improvement could be nullified by Pau's much better play on both sides of the ball and health overall for the team.

Again, all depends on health for the Lakers. But to say they are light years ahead is speculation at best. A stats guy like you should recognize that.

5ass
07-19-2013, 02:13 PM
I think the rockets win around 55 games. Lakers 38.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 02:15 PM
You speak about the Lakers as if they're some kind of religion. If you lost Kobe last season and got nothing in return for him, would you still be saying the same things? You don't just automatically get to have a great team every year, simply because you're a dynasty. If you roster suggests you'll be struggling to make the 8th seed in the West.. that's probably what will happen. Again I'm not saying that definitively, the season will show us what is to come.

Tons of people care that Dwight left. Particularly Rockets fans. Lakers fans just like to pretend that these things didn't happen.

That's a lot of commas man.

Ok with that logic, did you expect the Lakers to be the 7th or 8th seed last year with all that talent, the roster doesn't suggest the lakers will struggle, the only thing that suggests they may struggle is the injuries from last year, are you 100 percent certain they will all be injured again! Everyone wants the lakers to struggle and assume the worst, good luck with that!

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 02:21 PM
Didn't they have the same records last year but in last year's case, the Lakers had Dwight and the Rockets didn't. Now it is vice versa.

I think its been stated but that is probably a point in the Lakers favor. Dwight on the Lakers was a really bad fit. Its almost like he was sabbotogaing the team. Whats worse is his turnovers, missed free throws and general lack of effort led to many transistion buckets for opposing teams.

It sounds crazy to say because of the name but the Lakers should be better without Dwight Howard. Now with that said the Rockets might get a different version of HOWARD. One thats motivated,engaged with teammates and maybe he plays harder for them.

The notion that his absence from the Lakers weakens their team is over stated. His impact on the team really wasnt that great especially when you factor in that he was taking touches away from a FAR superior post player in Pau Gasol. The Lakers should be able to control pace and minimize turnovers and transistion play alot better without Howard. Pls they ahve added some much needed speed to the squad with Farmar Young & Johnson.

The right answer to the poll question is still probably the Rockets but I think it will be close.

RLundi
07-19-2013, 02:21 PM
Ok with that logic, did you expect the Lakers to be the 7th or 8th seed last year with all that talent, the roster doesn't suggest the lakers will struggle, the only thing that suggests they may struggle is the injuries from last year, are you 100 percent certain they will all be injured again! Everyone wants the lakers to struggle and assume the worst, good luck with that!

This roster absolutely suggests they will struggle. Nash is nearing 40, Kobe is coming off major surgery, Pau is a fraction of himself, D'Antoni is a terrible match with the personnel and the only defensive-minded player in an atrocious defense from last season is gone.

You can mention whatever you want, but all the variables combined make it a hard sell to see this team not just competing, but making the postseason.

ArmLaker
07-19-2013, 02:21 PM
If the lakers stay healthy and with a better bench, I project them to be a top 4 seed. Although mda isn't know for implementing defense in his system, we mustn't forget the wonders he can do as strictly a regular season coach. I don't see how a healthy rockets is better than a healthy lakers team.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:25 PM
Hehe, you'll notice I didn't mention Nick Young for a reason. Besides, there is no way Nick Young is the Lakers' third best player. So random reference there. If we go by pure stats, Young will be the Lakers 6th player at best, but I bet Jordan Hill has a good season, so I'll say 7th.

And yes, I acknowledged Parsons as a good (great even) shooter, so I know what his TS% and eFG% is. It's still all potential in an offense that will no longer feature him as a top two option in a slower paced offense that points to him not making a significant jump as people here think. So no, their trio is not "much better". Any Parsons improvement could be nullified by Pau's much better play on both sides of the ball and health overall for the team.

Again, all depends on health for the Lakers. But to say they are light years ahead is speculation at best. A stats guy like you should recognize that.

Nick Young was brought up in the original post I replied to, he had better not be the Lakers 3rd option or they are in trouble.

The trio is much better. I am factoring in Kobe not being Kobe for at least half the year in my prediction. And remember, guys like Parsons will benefit ala Turk/Lewis from Dwight, and having an attacking perimeter player who goes to the rim, unlike Kobe nowadays, will make the offense in Houston more versatile and more efficient.

The pace argument is a weak one nowadays. When 98.6 possessions a game leads the league, its a slow down league across the board compared to even 5 years ago, and very slow compared to 10 years ago. Parsons will see a similar jump in PER I believe, and should become an even more efficient scorer with less usage, and his defense this year I expect to expand more now that he will have an elite big man behind him at all times that actually protects the rim and keeps opponents out of the paint.

RLundi
07-19-2013, 02:26 PM
If the lakers stay healthy and with a better bench, I project them to be a top 4 seed. Although mda isn't know for implementing defense in his system, we mustn't forget the wonders he can do as strictly a regular season coach. I don't see how a healthy rockets is better than a healthy lakers team.

This is homerism and delusion at its absolute apex. Even completely healthy, Thunder, Spurs, Grizzlies, Rockets, Clippers and Warriors are FAR better teams than the Lakers. If the stars align, the highest the Lakers get to is 7th.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:26 PM
Ok with that logic, did you expect the Lakers to be the 7th or 8th seed last year with all that talent, the roster doesn't suggest the lakers will struggle, the only thing that suggests they may struggle is the injuries from last year, are you 100 percent certain they will all be injured again! Everyone wants the lakers to struggle and assume the worst, good luck with that!

Everyone thought the Lakers would win 50-60 games last year dude.

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 02:27 PM
Ok with that logic, did you expect the Lakers to be the 7th or 8th seed last year with all that talent, the roster doesn't suggest the lakers will struggle, the only thing that suggests they may struggle is the injuries from last year, are you 100 percent certain they will all be injured again! Everyone wants the lakers to struggle and assume the worst, good luck with that!

Dude you're not going to get anywhere by playing the "everyone hates the Lakers" card every time you feel your franchise is being questioned. I do not hate the Lakers.

In what way does the roster not suggest that they may struggle?? You can't just discount injuries from last season as a thing of the past on a team this old. Nash and Gasol both being injured significant amount of time last year does increase suspicion that a similar scenario could play out this season.. simply because they're both advancing in age. What happens to players advancing in age, you might ask? Well.. they get injured. And they perform at a lower level than they used to. This is just common knowledge. You cannot assume that they will be injury free. This is not even mentioning that you are assuming Kobe will function at a high level immediately... which remains to be seen.

All that hypothetical injury stuff aside... the Lakers defense is still going to be one of the worst in the league.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:27 PM
Does anyone here think the Lakers won't be bottom 5-6 in defensive efficiency? Hell, they were 20th last year, with the best anchor in the game.

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 02:29 PM
If the lakers stay healthy and with a better bench, I project them to be a top 4 seed. Although mda isn't know for implementing defense in his system, we mustn't forget the wonders he can do as strictly a regular season coach. I don't see how a healthy rockets is better than a healthy lakers team.

Lol. wow. I don't even know what to say anymore when it comes to these fans.

Hellcrooner
07-19-2013, 02:31 PM
Im neutral to the topic.

As a laker fan i WISH Lakers fire dantoni bring in someone that know how to coach better tan him, like I dont Know.... Puff Daddy or Stan Lee or Chuck Norris or the waterboy for the Topeka cricket team for example and Lakers get a better record.

Also i realice the odds are heavily inclined in Rockets favor.


I also know NONE OF THEM BOTH will win the ring, so whatever.


What i wonder is.

Wtf has to do with this coming season that "last year lakers and last year rockets had the same blah blah".


I mean.

> Duhon, Morris, Goudelock,Clark, Ebanks, Artest, Jamison, Howard
< Farmar, Young, Johnson, Kaman


Basically the roster is completely different, so what does it matter what happened to last years roster.

And btw this logic favours rockets too, they only have to acomódate one new piece, lakers ahve to acomódate SEVERAL new pieces.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 02:33 PM
This roster absolutely suggests they will struggle. Nash is nearing 40, Kobe is coming off major surgery, Pau is a fraction of himself, D'Antoni is a terrible match with the personnel and the only defensive-minded player in an atrocious defense from last season is gone.

You can mention whatever you want, but all the variables combined make it a hard sell to see this team not just competing, but making the postseason.

Your clueless, Pau is not a shell of himself, he played out of position. Put your money where your mouth is, sig bet lakers make the playoffs, you delete this account, and I choose your new screen name, if lakers miss the playoffs, I will do the same? Agreed

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:33 PM
I can also say, any minute given to Wes Johnson, is a minute the Lakers are losing.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:34 PM
Your clueless, Pau is not a shell of himself, he played out of position. Put your money where your mouth is, sig bet lakers make the playoffs, you delete this account, and I choose your new screen name, if lakers miss the playoffs, I will do the same? Agreed

those types of bets aren't allowed.

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 02:34 PM
Your clueless, Pau is not a shell of himself, he played out of position. Put your money where your mouth is, sig bet lakers make the playoffs, you delete this account, and I choose your new screen name, if lakers miss the playoffs, I will do the same? Agreed

:facepalm:

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 02:34 PM
The stats painted Parsons as a league average player last season. Played in the fastest offense in the NBA, making his per game stats very inflated, yet he had a PER of 15.3, just ever so slightly above the set league average of 15.

For reference, Jordan Farmar's last season with the Nets, he posted a PER of 17.4, and in his own second season it was 15.4.

Pau had a PER of 16.7
Nash had a PER of 16.0
Heck, Kaman last year had a PER of 16.3

So we have 4 Lakers' (two bench players) whose last seasons in the NBA trumped Parsons'.

So unless you are expecting Parsons to make the jump into an All- Star caliber player, which he is not at all right now (he was a good shooter in an offense that gave him over 12 shots a game and a USG% over 18) then no, the Rockets are clearly not "more top heavy". And for Parsons to make that jump is not realistic at all. He's going to be the third option in a team that is probably going to slow down considerably to cater to Dwight.

So with a healthy, deeper Laker team and Pau playing Center (his natural position) it is not far fetched at all to say the Lakers are better than the Rockets. We know how Kobe and Pau work as a tandem and in the pick and roll (championship level ball) yet we have yet to see Howard and Harden.

All the while those two prefer two different offenses and Howard refuses to play hard in the pick and roll game

Preach.......

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 02:38 PM
Does anyone here think the Lakers won't be bottom 5-6 in defensive efficiency? Hell, they were 20th last year, with the best anchor in the game.

Joakim Noah nor Larry Sanders were not on the Lakers last season. If it were 2009 you may have an argument.

Dwight could barely move when he did care enough to move or wasnt yelling at teammates for letting dudes penetrate

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 02:40 PM
Same guys going against the Lakers for the same reasons, and the same Guys going for the Lakers. Never gets old around here

RLundi
07-19-2013, 02:40 PM
Your clueless, Pau is not a shell of himself, he played out of position. Put your money where your mouth is, sig bet lakers make the playoffs, you delete this account, and I choose your new screen name, if lakers miss the playoffs, I will do the same? Agreed

LOL methinks I hit a nerve :laugh2:

Grow up. Where did I say the Lakers wouldn't make the playoffs?

And continue making excuses. If you think Pau is still anything close to a 20-10 guy, you're egregiously mistaken. Guess what? He will still be misused because D'Antoni is an inflexible idiot that has difficulty adjusting to personnel. It happened in New York and it's happening here. Lakers aren't going to get higher than a 7th seed but they may very well miss the playoffs.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 02:40 PM
Dude you're not going to get anywhere by playing the "everyone hates the Lakers" card every time you feel your franchise is being questioned. I do not hate the Lakers.

In what way does the roster not suggest that they may struggle?? You can't just discount injuries from last season as a thing of the past on a team this old. Nash and Gasol both being injured significant amount of time last year does increase suspicion that a similar scenario could play out this season.. simply because they're both advancing in age. What happens to players advancing in age, you might ask? Well.. they get injured. And they perform at a lower level than they used to. This is just common knowledge. You cannot assume that they will be injury free. This is not even mentioning that you are assuming Kobe will function at a high level immediately... which remains to be seen.

All that hypothetical injury stuff aside... the Lakers defense is still going to be one of the worst in the league.

Ok, you know as well as I do, most people in the NBA forum, do not like the lakers, everyhting that you are saying is Hypothetical as well, Pau is only 33, and it is laughable, that you think Kobe wont return to a high level, we shall see, but to think that a lakers team, with Kobe, Pau, Nash, Hill, Kaman, Farmar, Blake,Young, Johnson, meeks wont compete in the west and make the playoffs, is a bit strange, the team is pretty deep and will be better than most think.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 02:44 PM
LOL methinks I hit a nerve :laugh2:

Grow up. Where did I say the Lakers wouldn't make the playoffs?

And continue making excuses. If you think Pau is still anything close to a 20-10 guy, you're egregiously mistaken. Guess what? He will still be misused because D'Antoni is an inflexible idiot that has difficulty adjusting to personnel. It happened in New York and it's happening here. Lakers aren't going to get higher than a 7th seed but they may very well miss the playoffs.

Actually I think I hit the nerve, because you won't take the bet, so when Pau puts up 18 and 11 this year, come talk to me, and you did say the Lakers could very well miss the playoffs, just because you said they could get the 7 seed, you still followed up with they could very well miss the playoffs, quit flip flopping and take the bet.? Whats wrong, did I hit a nerve? U scared

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 02:45 PM
Ok, you know as well as I do, most people in the NBA forum, do not like the lakers, everyhting that you are saying is Hypothetical as well, Pau is only 33, and it is laughable, that you think Kobe wont return to a high level, we shall see, but to think that a lakers team, with Kobe, Pau, Nash, Hill, Kaman, Farmar, Blake,Young, Johnson, meeks wont compete in the west and make the playoffs, is a bit strange, the team is pretty deep and will be better than most think.

First of all, I acknowledged that those were hypothetical situations....

I never said Kobe won't return to a high level. I think he will. I just don't think it will be on opening day, like most Lakers fans are hoping is the case (I can't blame them, but I think it's unrealistic).

What's most laughable, is listing names like Johnson when making an argument for how deep you're going to be. "Being better than most think" is also quite the hypothetical statement. You see how it's pointless to point out my arguments are hypothetical, when we're discussing a team's performance that won't be on the court for another 5 months?

You still haven't discussed how your team is going to overcome being terrible on the defensive end?

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 02:45 PM
those types of bets aren't allowed.

So what kind of bets are allowed?

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:47 PM
So what kind of bets are allowed?

first, you are suggesting creating a duplicate account. Second, we don't honor the "you delete your account" bets here.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 02:48 PM
First of all, I acknowledged that those were hypothetical situations....

I never said Kobe won't return to a high level. I think he will. I just don't think it will be on opening day, like most Lakers fans are hoping is the case (I can't blame them, but I think it's unrealistic).

What's most laughable, is listing names like Johnson when making an argument for how deep you're going to be. "Being better than most think" is also quite the hypothetical statement. You see how it's pointless to point out my arguments are hypothetical, when we're discussing a team's performance that won't be on the court for another 5 months?

You still haven't discussed how your team is going to overcome being terrible on the defensive end?

Lakers do not need to be great on defense to have a great year, perimeter defense will be better this year, with the addition of Farmar and Johnson, and athletic guys like Young, we did not have the athleticism last year, inside the paint we are fine, Jordan Hill is pretty good and will definitely make an impact.

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 02:48 PM
I can also say, any minute given to Wes Johnson, is a minute the Lakers are losing.

Ok we get that you are upset the guy didnt pan out for your Wolves after being drafted so high.

But in real life. WES Johnson is better than both Omri Casspi and Terrance Jones who are his bench wing comparisons in Houston.

ADVANTAGE LAKERS there.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 02:52 PM
Ok we get that you are upset the guy didnt pan out for your Wolves after being drafted so high.

But in real life. WES Johnson is better than both Omri Casspi and Terrance Jones who are his bench wing comparisons in Houston.

ADVANTAGE LAKERS there.

no, he isn't. Wes Johnson was the worst starting wing in the game for 2 years, and was terrible in Phoenix. When a lottery pick comes off his first deal, and all he can get is a 1 year deal, you know he sucks.

xxplayerxx23
07-19-2013, 02:55 PM
Healthy Lakers are better than the Rockets. If you dont believe that then your just a hater. It all depends on health

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Nash-Kobe-pau-kaman all healthy win 40-45 max
Rockets will win 50-55. They are far superior

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 02:55 PM
Ok, you know as well as I do, most people in the NBA forum, do not like the lakers, everyhting that you are saying is Hypothetical as well, Pau is only 33, and it is laughable, that you think Kobe wont return to a high level, we shall see, but to think that a lakers team, with Kobe, Pau, Nash, Hill, Kaman, Farmar, Blake,Young, Johnson, meeks wont compete in the west and make the playoffs, is a bit strange, the team is pretty deep and will be better than most think.

Well you guys were tied last year with the Rockets right?? You didn't gain anyone besides Nick Young. Pau is coming back (not a better Center than Dwight sorry). You have no one legitimate to play PF. You have 0 defense. Your PG is the oldest player in the NBA, and your superstar is coming back from an Achilles tear.

There is 11 votes for the Lakers on this. 9 of them are from Lakers fans. You guys are the biggest group of homers.... It's one thing to have faith in your team, but this is straight stupid. This is the exact reason no one likes Lakers fans on this site. You guys lose the best Center in the NBA, and you think you got better because of it, while you're trying to convince everyone that Houston is going to be bad.

The whole thing is sad and you all should be ashamed.

xxplayerxx23
07-19-2013, 02:58 PM
Nash is the only upgrade they have over the rockets.
SG is even at best thats being generous.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 03:00 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Nash-Kobe-pau-kaman all healthy win 40-45 max
Rockets will win 50-55. They are far superior

fine

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 03:02 PM
Nash is the only upgrade they have over the rockets.
SG is even at best thats being generous.

Nash is being generous too. Lin ain't great, but Nash isn't exactly the MVP he once was either.

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 03:04 PM
no, he isn't. Wes Johnson was the worst starting wing in the game for 2 years, and was terrible in Phoenix. When a lottery pick comes off his first deal, and all he can get is a 1 year deal, you know he sucks.

I disagree. Time will tell who is right. He played solid in Phoenix the last two months when given playing time:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4719/gamelog

This league is all about fit and oppurtunity for 90% of guys. Wes has found a good fit.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-19-2013, 03:07 PM
I can't see any argument possible, that the Rockets win less games. They were essentially even last year, and now the Rockets have Howard, the Lakers don't.

This, unless Howard comes out this year thinking he's the number one option. Then the Rockets are in trouble.

SteBO
07-19-2013, 03:07 PM
no, he isn't. Wes Johnson was the worst starting wing in the game for 2 years, and was terrible in Phoenix. When a lottery pick comes off his first deal, and all he can get is a 1 year deal, you know he sucks.
I agree he's been awful since he came into the league, but you sure a change of scenery can't help even a little?

xxplayerxx23
07-19-2013, 03:09 PM
Nash is being generous too. Lin ain't great, but Nash isn't exactly the MVP he once was either.


I'd take Nash over lin or Beverly at this point, he has game left he just needs to stay healthy

xxplayerxx23
07-19-2013, 03:09 PM
I agree he's been awful since he came into the league, but you sure a change of scenery can't help even a little?

At the very best he can be an average player

greg_ory_2005
07-19-2013, 03:12 PM
Rockets!

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 03:12 PM
I agree he's been awful since he came into the league, but you sure a change of scenery can't help even a little?

It can't hurt, but he just doesn't have any confidence, assertiveness, or basketball IQ. And he is 26 now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnswe01.html

How do you produce 1.9 win shares, total, in 3 seasons?

His first year, his best, he was the 9th worst starting wing in the game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2011&year_max=2011&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=gs&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws&order_by_asc=Y

His second year, 3rd worst

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=gs&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws&order_by_asc=Y

last year, he was at his worst, not producing even a sliver of a win share.

He is awful.

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 03:17 PM
It can't hurt, but he just doesn't have any confidence, assertiveness, or basketball IQ. And he is 26 now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnswe01.html

How do you produce 1.9 win shares, total, in 3 seasons?

His first year, his best, he was the 9th worst starting wing in the game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2011&year_max=2011&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=gs&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws&order_by_asc=Y

His second year, 3rd worst

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=gs&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws&order_by_asc=Y

last year, he was at his worst, not producing even a sliver of a win share.

He is awful.

He's also coming off the best playing stretch of his career:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4719/gamelog

And going to play for a team that needs his speed / athleticism and will run a system that caters to his skill set all while learning from his workout buddy and ONE OF THE BEST WING PLAYERS OF ALL TIME in Kobe Bryant. Not sure if there could be a better fit for the guy.

Gagan136
07-19-2013, 03:18 PM
It is really hard to pick the Lakers, safest and easiest pick is the Rockets.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 03:18 PM
He's also coming off the best playing stretch of his career:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4719/gamelog

And going to play for a team that will run a system that caters to his skill set all while learning from his workout buddy and ONE OF THE BEST WING PLAYERS OF ALL TIME in Kobe Bryant. Not sure if there could be a better fit for the guy.

Yeah because we all know what kind of great leader/teacher Kobe is, and how much his teammates love playing with him.

Gagan136
07-19-2013, 03:19 PM
And Wes Johnson will not be the difference of the Lakers being better or worse than the Rockets..

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 03:19 PM
It is really hard to pick the Lakers, safest and easiest pick is the Rockets.

OMFG a Laker fans that's able to put his homer blinders away for 10 seconds, and use some common sense.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 03:20 PM
He's also coming off the best playing stretch of his career:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4719/gamelog

And going to play for a team that needs his speed / athleticism and will run a system that caters to his skill set all while learning from his workout buddy and ONE OF THE BEST WING PLAYERS OF ALL TIME in Kobe Bryant. Not sure if there could be a better fit for the guy.

I can't believe you are sticking up for Wes Johnson dude.

Have fun with him

Hellcrooner
07-19-2013, 03:22 PM
mmm wes Johnson is going to play back up.

so, whats the point discussing how much he sucks?

i mean he cant be any worse tan devin ebanks.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 03:24 PM
mmm wes Johnson is going to play back up.

so, whats the point discussing how much he sucks?

i mean he cant be any worse tan devin ebanks.

yes, he is. But sure, he better not even be a factor if the Lakers plan on contending for the playoffs.

RLundi
07-19-2013, 03:24 PM
Actually I think I hit the nerve, because you won't take the bet, so when Pau puts up 18 and 11 this year, come talk to me, and you did say the Lakers could very well miss the playoffs, just because you said they could get the 7 seed, you still followed up with they could very well miss the playoffs, quit flip flopping and take the bet.? Whats wrong, did I hit a nerve? U scared

What are we, 9? You could suggest humans don't breathe air and I wouldn't make such a juvenile bet. Once more, please grow up if at all possible.

Pau may very well put up better numbers than last year, provides everything runs absolutely smoothly. But he isn't the same player and hasn't hit 18-11 since 2010. If you think he's going to turn it completely around you're mistaken. He's declining.

I absolutely said they could miss the playoffs, not will. Is English your first language? What I'm saying is I do not at all expect them to be higher than the 7th seed but I can very well see them missing the postseason altogether. Are you understanding me or do you need to plug this into Google translate?

And yes, I'm terrified :)

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 03:26 PM
Yeah because we all know what kind of great leader/teacher Kobe is, and how much his teammates love playing with him.

Yea we all do.. Lets take a look at similiar undervalued wing players who have credited Kobe with improvements in their game and still look up to him to this day . These dudes all went on to secure roles and pay days in the league largely in part to the Mamba influence.

1. Trevor Ariza
2. Shannon Brown
3. Von Wafer
4. Earl Clark

Lets see what Wes himself has to say:


“I took less money to be here because I have dreamed of being a Laker since I was 10 years old,” he added. “This is a dream come true and I look forward to learning from veterans like Pau Gasol, Kobe and Steve Nash. I remember practicing with Kobe a couple summers ago and I can’t really repeat too much of what he said, but he definitely wants me to play my best and be a difference maker. I can’t wait to get to camp and get to work.”



So yea about that..

ArmLaker
07-19-2013, 03:29 PM
If you don't think the Lakers are going to be better than Houston, ya'll trippin'. Ya'll on that dope!

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 03:30 PM
I can't believe you are sticking up for Wes Johnson dude.

Have fun with him

I 've always liked the guys game and think its way to early to right him off.

I expect we will have some fun with him. Anywho enough about that back to the topic at hand.

Rockets v Lakers

As you were.....

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 03:31 PM
I'll say it. Lakers won't make the playoffs while Rockets will be at worst a 6 seed.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 03:33 PM
If you don't think the Lakers are going to be better than Houston, ya'll trippin'. Ya'll on that dope!

I'm going to start collecting stupid posts from Lakers fans, and see how many of you I make look dumb by the end of the season.

Gagan136
07-19-2013, 03:35 PM
As long as Dantoni is coaching he will continue to run the team into the ground, if Kobe comes back to start the season i could see him getting hurt not long after from playing a stupid amount of minutes every game, same goes for nash. If those two are hurt for any period of time our starting line-up looks like this;

Farmar
Johnson
Young
Hill
Pau

And i have a strong feeling that Kobe will miss a few games, and i can almost guarantee that Nash wont play all 82 next year, i just cant see why people can pick LAL over HOU with the current rosters/coaches and injury/age situations.

tredigs
07-19-2013, 03:35 PM
So, who's playing defense for the Lakers this year, exactly? A team full of non defenders rounded out nicely with a coach who hates it just as much. I'm sorry, it won't be pretty. If you think that's "hating", you just have no respect for the game.

Barring injury I have the Rockets 3-6. Lakers 8-11. Not the same tier.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 03:36 PM
As long as Dantoni is coaching he will continue to run the team into the ground, if Kobe comes back to start the season i could see him getting hurt not long after from playing a stupid amount of minutes every game, same goes for nash. If those two are hurt for any period of time our starting line-up looks like this;

Farmar
Johnson
Young
Hill
Pau

And i have a strong feeling that Kobe will miss a few games, and i can almost guarantee that Nash wont play all 82 next year, i just cant see why people can pick LAL over HOU with the current rosters/coaches and injury/age situations.

I bet the rest of the Lakers fans hate you.

tredigs
07-19-2013, 03:40 PM
Is Pau the best defender on the team? Is there a >1% chance this won't be a bottom 10 D? I honestly don't think so.

xxplayerxx23
07-19-2013, 03:41 PM
Is Pau the best defender on the team?

Probably :laugh:

ArmLaker
07-19-2013, 03:41 PM
I'm going to start collecting stupid posts from Lakers fans, and see how many of you I make look dumb by the end of the season.

;) have fun with that friend.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 03:42 PM
Is Pau the best defender on the team? Is there a >1% chance this won't be a bottom 10 D? I honestly don't think so.

Hill? Who knows, and I said it a page ago as well, that they are going to be horrible defensively.

Munkeysuit
07-19-2013, 03:47 PM
I am not a fan of either team, but I am definitely picking the Rockets to have the better record by the end of the season...honestly? I can't even see the Lakers making the playoffs, no disrespect to Kobe and Pau, but they just don't have enough help.

tredigs
07-19-2013, 03:49 PM
Hill? Who knows, and I said it a page ago as well, that they are going to be horrible defensively.

Yeah maybe Hill. He's still a negative on that end but I mean he'll get them a double double if he gets the minutes, so who knows - maybe that's the X - Factor that puts them over the hump to the 8 seed. At the worst, a great fantasy bball sleeper haha.

Hellcrooner
07-19-2013, 03:58 PM
Hill? Who knows, and I said it a page ago as well, that they are going to be horrible defensively.

Wich is true, but also more meaninfull in playoffs than regular season.

Checks Dantonis Suns, Doug Moes Nuggets, Don nelsons Bucks/Mavs etc.

NO defense wiht a good offense can be enough for a good record during the season.
It gets you nowhere in the playoffs tough.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 04:14 PM
Wich is true, but also more meaninfull in playoffs than regular season.

Checks Dantonis Suns, Doug Moes Nuggets, Don nelsons Bucks/Mavs etc.

NO defense wiht a good offense can be enough for a good record during the season.
It gets you nowhere in the playoffs tough.

Those teams were offensive juggernauts dude, best in the league.

suhtosuhperbowl
07-19-2013, 04:26 PM
It depends on how Kobe plays after his injury in my opinion his production will decrease due to his age and his injury

tp13baby
07-19-2013, 04:30 PM
Healthy Lakers are better than the Rockets. If you dont believe that then your just a hater. It all depends on health

Im not a hater. Just rational. Every single position I would take the Rockets.

tr3ymill3r
07-19-2013, 04:31 PM
It won't even be close. The Rockets will be a top 4 team in the West and the Lakers will be an 8 seed at best. The Rockets will win 10 more games than the Lakers, easily.

tr3ymill3r
07-19-2013, 04:36 PM
Who are you, dont call people idiots, because they dont agree with you, no one care Dwight left, get over it, this is the Lakers, no one man is bigger than the Lakers, we have moved on, so should you.

If nobody cared that Dwight left, then why were there STAY banners, that was sad, why were there videos of people burning Dwight jerseys, why have there been more Dwight Howard threads then LeBron decision threads. You Laker fans are all the same, when your winning you stand behind your team, when they are losing your Heat fans for now and when LeBron finally retires you'll be fans of whatever team Wiggins is on.

Baby come back, you can blame it all on Kobe.
I was wrong not to play D without you.
Baby come back.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 04:50 PM
If nobody cared that Dwight left, then why were there STAY banners, that was sad, why were there videos of people burning Dwight jerseys, why have there been more Dwight Howard threads then LeBron decision threads. You Laker fans are all the same, when your winning you stand behind your team, when they are losing your Heat fans for now and when LeBron finally retires you'll be fans of whatever team Wiggins is on.

Baby come back, you can blame it all on Kobe.
I was wrong not to play D without you.
Baby come back.

Dude your a joke, if the lakers wanted Dwight so bad, they would have fired Dantoni, and not let Kobe speak up about how long he wants to play, those things came out for a reason, and just so you know, I work for the Lakers as a scout, and no, I'm not Chaz the bartender, so this isnt just some random thoughts of mine, I have been in meetings and had conversations about Dwight. Who ever was burning Dwight jerseys is not a true Laker fan, any true laker fan who watched every game last year will tell you, good riddance.

;)

TrueFan420
07-19-2013, 04:53 PM
If nobody cared that Dwight left, then why were there STAY banners, that was sad, why were there videos of people burning Dwight jerseys, why have there been more Dwight Howard threads then LeBron decision threads. You Laker fans are all the same, when your winning you stand behind your team, when they are losing your Heat fans for now and when LeBron finally retires you'll be fans of whatever team Wiggins is on.

Baby come back, you can blame it all on Kobe.
I was wrong not to play D without you.
Baby come back.
I've already seen a few laker fans turn rocket fans

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 04:53 PM
lol.. Nobody in LA was burning Dwight Jersey..

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 04:57 PM
If nobody cared that Dwight left, then why were there STAY banners, that was sad, why were there videos of people burning Dwight jerseys, why have there been more Dwight Howard threads then LeBron decision threads. You Laker fans are all the same, when your winning you stand behind your team, when they are losing your Heat fans for now and when LeBron finally retires you'll be fans of whatever team Wiggins is on.

Baby come back, you can blame it all on Kobe.
I was wrong not to play D without you.
Baby come back.

The fans have nothing to do with those stay banners at all.. PSD always seems to want to form some alternate universe. If you had been listening to the LA espn radio station, you would have heard callers ALL YEAR bashing Dwight and saying we should trade him at the deadline. Dwight is terrible overrated unless your an advanced stat nerd.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 04:58 PM
Dude your a joke, if the lakers wanted Dwight so bad, they would have fired Dantoni, and not let Kobe speak up about how long he wants to play, those things came out for a reason, and just so you know, I work for the Lakers as a scout, and no, I'm not Chaz the bartender, so this isnt just some random thoughts of mine, I have been in meetings and had conversations about Dwight. Who ever was burning Dwight jerseys is not a true Laker fan, any true laker fan who watched every game last year will tell you, good riddance.

;)

HAHAHAHA. Does anyone buy this crap?

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 05:02 PM
The fans have nothing to do with those stay banners at all.. PSD always seems to want to form some alternate universe. If you had been listening to the LA espn radio station, you would have heard callers ALL YEAR bashing Dwight and saying we should trade him at the deadline. Dwight is terrible overrated unless your an advanced stat nerd.

Yes. This is how he carried what would have been an otherwise 8 seed/non-playoff team to the NBA Finals and ECF in back to back seasons. Correct?

Cracka2HI!
07-19-2013, 05:03 PM
I don't mean to talk crap when I say this but if Bryant misses the 1st 2 months of the season which he likely will despite ambitious reports to the contrary, the Lakers could start the season 5-20. That team and coach is that bad without Bryant.

Kaman
Gasol
Young/Johnson
Meeks
Nash

Could be a bottom 5 team in the league. They really should tank. They'd turn it around in 1 year if they did.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 05:04 PM
Im not a hater. Just rational. Every single position I would take the Rockets.

Every Position?

Nash-Lin= I will take Nash, as old as Nash is, Lin is Garbage
Harden-Kobe= I will give you Harden, but Kobe is Kobe so we shall see
Parsons-Nick Young= Ok Parsons
Pau-Patterson Asik= Pau
Dwight-Kaman= Dwight

Bench
Wes Johnson
Jordan Hill
Farmar
Blake
Meeks
Ryan Kelly

over

Patterson
Garcia
Cassipi
Beverly any day of the week

So every position is a bit of a reach. And by the way Kobe may prove everyone wrong and still be great, we shall see.

Cracka2HI!
07-19-2013, 05:05 PM
Dude your a joke, if the lakers wanted Dwight so bad, they would have fired Dantoni, and not let Kobe speak up about how long he wants to play, those things came out for a reason, and just so you know, I work for the Lakers as a scout, and no, I'm not Chaz the bartender, so this isnt just some random thoughts of mine, I have been in meetings and had conversations about Dwight. Who ever was burning Dwight jerseys is not a true Laker fan, any true laker fan who watched every game last year will tell you, good riddance.

;)Wow an actual scout for the Lakers! I'll buy it!!

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 05:14 PM
HAHAHAHA. Does anyone buy this crap?

I dont really care if you do, I own 5 rings and have worked for the lakers since 98, think what you want, I bleed purple and gold, and I love these forums, just because I dont agree with many of you, doesn't mean I dont respect your opinion, I just think that there is too much hate on here, and I'm trying to give u an inside perspective, the Lakers knew Dwight was leaving in March. Sorry buddy, the Lakers were not going to leave the greatest franchise in the world to someone, who cant respect what Kobe has done for this team and proven nothing to the lakers while he was here.

tredigs
07-19-2013, 05:15 PM
Dude your a joke, if the lakers wanted Dwight so bad, they would have fired Dantoni, and not let Kobe speak up about how long he wants to play, those things came out for a reason, and just so you know, I work for the Lakers as a scout, and no, I'm not Chaz the bartender, so this isnt just some random thoughts of mine, I have been in meetings and had conversations about Dwight. Who ever was burning Dwight jerseys is not a true Laker fan, any true laker fan who watched every game last year will tell you, good riddance.

;)

You say you're a "Lakers scout" who has been in on private organizational meetings on Dwight, but provide us with the grammar, emoticons and general ultra-homer disposition of a 17 yr old coffee runner. Not buying it.

Either way, you are expecting the absolute top end of the spectrum on all of these guys; "Kobe returning to an elite level", 33yr old "Pau putting up 18 and 11" (matching his career high in rpg), and now that Dwight is gone of course it's "good riddance" despite everything pointing to the contrary. But who am I kidding, I'm sure that elite scouting of yours on Nick Young (Larry Hughes Lite) and Chris Kaman (Big Z without the D) will prove monumental pickups...

If you are indeed this involved in the organization, all I can say is that you lack any clarity in this situation. But as a Laker insider, can you provide me with who will provide the defensive anchor in the block and guard the elite wings?

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 05:19 PM
You say you're a "Lakers scout" who has been in on private organizational meetings on Dwight, but provide us with the grammar, emoticons and general ultra-homer disposition of a 17 yr old coffee runner. Not buying it.

Either way, you are expecting the absolute top end of the spectrum on all of these guys; "Kobe returning to an elite level", 33yr old "Pau putting up 18 and 11" (matching his career high in rpg), and now that Dwight is gone of course it's "good riddance" despite everything pointing to the contrary. But who am I kidding, I'm sure that elite scouting of yours on Nick Young (Larry Hughes Lite) and Chris Kaman (Big Z without the D) will prove monumental pickups...

If you are indeed this involved in the organization, all I can say is that you lack any clarity in this situation. But as a Laker insider, can you provide me with who will provide the defensive anchor in the block and guard the elite wings?

*******

Htownballa1622
07-19-2013, 05:21 PM
Every Position?

Nash-Lin= I will take Nash, as old as Nash is, Lin is Garbage
Harden-Kobe= I will give you Harden, but Kobe is Kobe so we shall see
Parsons-Nick Young= Ok Parsons
Pau-Patterson Asik= Pau
Dwight-Kaman= Dwight

Bench
Wes Johnson
Jordan Hill
Farmar
Blake
Meeks
Ryan Kelly

over

Patterson
Garcia
Cassipi
Beverly any day of the week

So every position is a bit of a reach. And by the way Kobe may prove everyone wrong and still be great, we shall see.

You're a "scout" but you don't realize we traded patterson? lmao

tredigs
07-19-2013, 05:21 PM
*******

Solid contribution as usual Nickey.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 05:22 PM
I dont really care if you do, I own 5 rings and have worked for the lakers since 98, think what you want, I bleed purple and gold, and I love these forums, just because I dont agree with many of you, doesn't mean I dont respect your opinion, I just think that there is too much hate on here, and I'm trying to give u an inside perspective, the Lakers knew Dwight was leaving in March. Sorry buddy, the Lakers were not going to leave the greatest franchise in the world to someone, who cant respect what Kobe has done for this team and proven nothing to the lakers while he was here.

your purple and gold blood is making you completely biased though dude. Your defense will be terrible, you have no bench, and a 35 year old Kobe coming off one of the worst injuries you can get. It just doesn't add up to the Lakers winning 40 games this season.

Why are Laker fans so in love with the term "hate"? It's okay to have your team questioned, and put into context.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 05:23 PM
you are not a scout. Fact.

RLundi
07-19-2013, 05:29 PM
Dude your a joke, if the lakers wanted Dwight so bad, they would have fired Dantoni, and not let Kobe speak up about how long he wants to play, those things came out for a reason, and just so you know, I work for the Lakers as a scout, and no, I'm not Chaz the bartender, so this isnt just some random thoughts of mine, I have been in meetings and had conversations about Dwight. Who ever was burning Dwight jerseys is not a true Laker fan, any true laker fan who watched every game last year will tell you, good riddance.

;)

:laugh:

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 05:36 PM
you are not a scout. Fact.

How is that a fact? You know for a fact that he is not a scout based on his conversation on a message board?

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 05:38 PM
Solid contribution as usual Nickey.

whatever man. I've provided my input throughout this whole thread. Your post was uncalled for and completely condescending. But thats ok around here.

RLundi
07-19-2013, 05:40 PM
How is that a fact? You know for a fact that he is not a scout based on his conversation on a message board?

Question: Do you believe he is a scout?

aTinyPanda
07-19-2013, 05:41 PM
This is just turning into an ad hominems and bruised egos extravaganza. /thread.

tredigs
07-19-2013, 05:44 PM
whatever man. I've provided my input throughout this whole thread. Your post was uncalled for and completely condescending. But thats ok around here.

My post seemed pretty rational to me... ? What in particular was off to you?

Sorry if we're sick of hearing how the Lakers will shock once again after the hurricane of BS everyone sat through from last year. Haven't seen a Laker fan with a "whoops, our bad" on that one yet.

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 05:46 PM
Nick Young was brought up in the original post I replied to, he had better not be the Lakers 3rd option or they are in trouble.

The trio is much better. I am factoring in Kobe not being Kobe for at least half the year in my prediction. And remember, guys like Parsons will benefit ala Turk/Lewis from Dwight, and having an attacking perimeter player who goes to the rim, unlike Kobe nowadays, will make the offense in Houston more versatile and more efficient.

The pace argument is a weak one nowadays. When 98.6 possessions a game leads the league, its a slow down league across the board compared to even 5 years ago, and very slow compared to 10 years ago. Parsons will see a similar jump in PER I believe, and should become an even more efficient scorer with less usage, and his defense this year I expect to expand more now that he will have an elite big man behind him at all times that actually protects the rim and keeps opponents out of the paint.

Roger on the Nick Young front.

We're clearly just using different factors then. With all the reports if Bryant being ahead of schedule I think it'll only take the month of November to get him to last seasons level. That's pppuurreee speculation on both our parts but right now all reports are on my side ;) But that's not a point that will be conceded either way.

and normally id agree with you on the pace argument, but the rockets were #1 in terms of pace. Not like they were barely top 5. They played at the fastest pace in the league, so a slow down absolutely will be a factor. Whether that's a negative for Parsons (and Harden) or a positive is yet to be seen, I don't think this new environment of now being a 3rd (4th? Lin will get the ball more, no? That's his game) option at best.

Hedo argument don't work, there isn't a comparison there. Hedo was the best playmaker for that team, Parsons is a shooter first with Harden, Lin, and even Dwight having the ball in their hands far more.

Also, Asik was arguably a better rim defender than Dwight last season (only). Unless Dwight is 2009 form then the upgrade as a rim defender isn't this huge one you are making it out to be.

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 05:48 PM
My post seemed pretty rational to me... ? What in particular was off to you?

Sorry if we're sick of hearing how the Lakers will shock once again after the hurricane of BS everyone sat through from last year. Haven't seen a Laker fan with a "whoops, our bad" on that one yet.

Right, no Laker fan has said anything about the colossal disappointment that was last season. You're almost as bad as this nickydimez dude.

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 05:51 PM
ahahahhahhaahaha popcorn this thread!!

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 05:51 PM
your purple and gold blood is making you completely biased though dude. Your defense will be terrible, you have no bench, and a 35 year old Kobe coming off one of the worst injuries you can get. It just doesn't add up to the Lakers winning 40 games this season.

Why are Laker fans so in love with the term "hate"? It's okay to have your team questioned, and put into context.

I'm sorry but the bench is already much improved with Farmar, Young, Kaman on the team over Blake, Meeks, and Twan. Depending on who the Lakers bring as another backup big (LO?) the Lakers will actually sport a decent bench.

tredigs
07-19-2013, 05:52 PM
Right, no Laker fan has said anything about the colossal disappointment that was last season. You're almost as bad as this nickydimez dude.

I've seen obvious shame and deflection in the main forum, not much else. And not 1/10th of the amount that we saw from the boasting. You can pretend otherwise, that's fine.


I'm sorry but the bench is already much improved with Farmar, Young, Kaman on the team over Blake, Meeks, and Twan. Depending on who the Lakers bring as another backup big (LO?) the Lakers will actually sport a decent bench.
You're comparing it to a crappy bench, though. He's comparing it to the rest of the NBA. And he's right to say it's still weak, especially defensively.

RockBearStro
07-19-2013, 05:52 PM
Yup u a crazy delusional Laker fan! Clearly

hotdalton18
07-19-2013, 05:53 PM
Lol rockets by far

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 05:59 PM
I've seen obvious shame and deflection in the main forum, not much else. And not 1/10th of the amount that we saw from the boasting. You can pretend otherwise, that's fine.


You're comparing it to a crappy bench, though. He's comparing it to the rest of the NBA. And he's right to say it's still weak, especially defensively.

I'm not pretending at all, you're complaining because Laker fans aren't making threads about how much our team ****ing sucked? I don't see any Laker fan saying anything other than it was a colossal failure and the team was absolutely decimated by injuries.

well maybe a couple delusional fans may be going with some other rhetoric but those are outliers. If you're gonna try and paint us all with that picture, well it wouldn't be the first time you were irrational in your views regarding the LA Lakers :laugh2: Get over it. They had a hugely disappointing season that was a megafailure. There, a die hard Laker fan said. Does that satiate your need there Tredigs?

It should be a league average bench this season when its all said and done. They've made some decent moves with the league min.

tredigs
07-19-2013, 06:01 PM
I'm not pretending at all, you're complaining because Laker fans aren't making threads about how much our team ****ing sucked? I don't see any Laker fan saying anything other than it was a colossal failure and the team was absolutely decimated by injuries.

well maybe a couple delusional fans may be going with some other rhetoric but those are outliers. If you're gonna try and paint us all with that picture, well it wouldn't be the first time you were irrational in your views regarding the LA Lakers :laugh2: Get over it. They had a hugely disappointing season that was a megafailure. There, a die hard Laker fan said. Does that satiate your need there Tredigs?

It should be a league average bench this season when its all said and done. They've made some decent moves with the league min.

Super satiated thanks. GL this year.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 06:09 PM
My post seemed pretty rational to me... ? What in particular was off to you?

Sorry if we're sick of hearing how the Lakers will shock once again after the hurricane of BS everyone sat through from last year. Haven't seen a Laker fan with a "whoops, our bad" on that one yet.

lol. What are you talking about? Go to the Lakers forum buddy. We all felt dumb this season. No one is delusional about that. Some of you people just really HATE the lakers so much, like you want us to chop our hands off because we were excited for this past season and it didnt work out. It didnt work out bro. What do you want us to say? Why the hell do you guys want us to not have hope in our team? I am being realistic when I say we are going to be better this year. I think we will be better than the Rockets. Im not saying we are better than the Spurs, Thunder, Clips, Memphis, etc. Jesus man.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 06:09 PM
You say you're a "Lakers scout" who has been in on private organizational meetings on Dwight, but provide us with the grammar, emoticons and general ultra-homer disposition of a 17 yr old coffee runner. Not buying it.

Either way, you are expecting the absolute top end of the spectrum on all of these guys; "Kobe returning to an elite level", 33yr old "Pau putting up 18 and 11" (matching his career high in rpg), and now that Dwight is gone of course it's "good riddance" despite everything pointing to the contrary. But who am I kidding, I'm sure that elite scouting of yours on Nick Young (Larry Hughes Lite) and Chris Kaman (Big Z without the D) will prove monumental pickups...

If you are indeed this involved in the organization, all I can say is that you lack any clarity in this situation. But as a Laker insider, can you provide me with who will provide the defensive anchor in the block and guard the elite wings?


This is pretty funny, let me ask you something, do you think getting, Wes Johnson, Kaman, Nick young and Farmar for a combined total of 6 million isn't a great deal for any team, your sorely mistaken. Last year they made a combined total of 17 million last year, and we got all four for 6 million, which is 1.5 million less than we would have paid peace. That is scouting, oh and 3 of the 4 are under 29 and solid contributers. Perimeter defense and inside anchor will be Wes Johnson, Steve Blake on the outside and Hill and Kaman on the inside, it's not perfect, but with the tempo we will use it will suffice.
Here is some inside info for you, Drew Gooden is working out right now for the Lakers, and don't plan on D'antoni being here after the season, there is a reason Rambis was hired and Phil Jackson seems to be getting more and more involved with the lakers as of late. How bout the Madsen hire, or the fact that Derek fisher is also here, talking about coaching. Those must be for Dantoni right, but I don't need to share any inside info with you clowns, but I will, because those laker fans on here, should have some faith, there is a plan. I'm done, I need to polish my rings. Cmoney out!

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 06:10 PM
Right, no Laker fan has said anything about the colossal disappointment that was last season. You're almost as bad as this nickydimez dude.

Why am I bad?

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 06:10 PM
98.6 pace was the highest pace in the league. That would have been 10 less than he even a decade ago. The pace won't matter.

Asik does not protect the rim like a healthy Dwight, which is what the Rox are expecting to get.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 06:11 PM
Question: Do you believe he is a scout?

I dont know him, do You? Do you believe "Hawkeye" knows him? Or the other troll that gets his kicks from bashing the Lakers?

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 06:12 PM
The bench went from embarrassing to below average. Still wont compete with the Rox bench.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 06:15 PM
I dont need to know him to tell you he isnt a professional basketball scout. His posts are plenty enough.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 06:15 PM
The bench went from embarrassing to below average. Still wont compete with the Rox bench.

So who's on that Rox bench, I would love to hear how the Lakers wont compete with the like of Beverly, Garcia and Cassipi. LOL

rockets-fan
07-19-2013, 06:17 PM
This is seriously a question....wow.

rockets-fan
07-19-2013, 06:20 PM
So who's on that Rox bench, I would love to hear how the Lakers wont compete with the like of Beverly, Garcia and Cassipi. LOL

There's a reason all those nice pick ups of the lakers were gotten by the minimum. Cause no one else wanted them for more. They aren't good, and Beverly is actually pretty good. Jones or Monty, whichever doesn't start, are good shooting pfs so they're good. And Asik is on our bench.

Beverly/brooks
Garcia
Williams/Casspi
Jones/Montejunas/smith
Asik

Yea I'm happy with that bench

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 06:20 PM
I dont need to know him to tell you he isnt a professional basketball scout. His posts are plenty enough.

lol @ his "post".. Ok slick

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 06:21 PM
I dont need to know him to tell you he isnt a professional basketball scout. His posts are plenty enough.

This. Plus a low level scout wouldn't be on a meeting with Dwight. Scout's spend their time at College basketball games, and international games. They literally would have nothing to do with the resigning of Dwight. They don't need a scout to tell them that Dwight is really good.

I'm really embarrassed about this whole thread now. If you really are a scout prove it. If not shut up because no one believes you.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 06:22 PM
I dont need to know him to tell you he isnt a professional basketball scout. His posts are plenty enough.

Who are you, I have worked in the NBA for 15 years, you act like some sort of Basketball god, what are your credentials? You seem to have all the answers and are never wrong, yet you continue to discredit me, would you like some Tickets sometime or maybe a tour of the Laker facility? It's funny, there is no point trying, I have no reason to lie to anyone on here, I have allowed myself to get hammered on here, it doesn't faze me, read the insider info I just posted, and when it happens, make sure to come back and tell me what I don't know.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 06:23 PM
Scouts usually aren't blind homers as well.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 06:25 PM
This. Plus a low level scout wouldn't be on a meeting with Dwight. Scout's spend their time at College basketball games, and international games. They literally would have nothing to do with the resigning of Dwight. They don't need a scout to tell them that Dwight is really good.

I'm really embarrassed about this whole thread now. If you really are a scout prove it. If not shut up because no one believes you.


Wow you really are dumb, scouts also evaluate a current NBA talent and free agents, which happens to be my job, and yes scouts are very much involved in the offseason plans including, free agency, draft and over seas. What would you like me to do? That would be smart for my career wouldn't it?

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 06:25 PM
Who are you, I have worked in the NBA for 15 years, you act like some sort of Basketball god, what are your credentials? You seem to have all the answers and are never wrong, yet you continue to discredit me, would you like some Tickets sometime or maybe a tour of the Laker facility? It's funny, there is no point trying, I have no reason to lie to anyone on here, I have allowed myself to get hammered on here, it doesn't faze me, read the insider info I just posted, and when it happens, make sure to come back and tell me what I don't know.

Your reason for lying is to develop some credibility on this forum because as of right now your destroying any chance of getting any.

However it just makes you look more dumb.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 06:27 PM
Wow you really are dumb, scouts also evaluate a current NBA talent and free agents, which happens to be my job, and yes scouts are very much involved in the offseason plans including, free agency, draft and over seas. What would you like me to do? That would be smart for my career wouldn't it?

How bout send us a link to your twitter? If you really are a scout. Maybe you can even send a tweet saying ztilzer31 sucks! You can't though... Because you're not a scout... and if you are a scout, and you think your team is better without Dwight than you are a very ****** scout.

And no. The Lakers would not use scouts to check out free agents. That would never happen with Dwight. He's been on their team for a year, and in no way would they share any information like what you say "you know" with some random ****** scout.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 06:28 PM
There's a reason all those nice pick ups of the lakers were gotten by the minimum. Cause no one else wanted them for more. They aren't good, and Beverly is actually pretty good. Jones or Monty, whichever doesn't start, are good shooting pfs so they're good. And Asik is on our bench.

Beverly/brooks
Garcia








Williams/Casspi
Jones/Montejunas/smith
Asik

Yea I'm happy with that bench

How are you happy with this? Your joking right?

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 06:30 PM
How bout send us a link to your twitter? If you really are a scout. Maybe you can even send a tweet saying ztilzer31 sucks! You can't though... Because you're not a scout... and if you are a scout, and you think your team is better without Dwight than you are a very ****** scout.

And no. The Lakers would not use scouts to check out free agents. That would never happen with Dwight. He's been on their team for a year, and in no way would they share any information like what you say "you know" with some random ****** scout.

Wow, your clueless, how old are you, cuz you don't know ******* about scouting, just give up man, I gave you a few things the lakers are working on, if it doesn't happen come talk to me. Fisher will be an assistant, Dantoni will be fired at the end of the season and Gooden is being worked out, thats insider info, no one is talking about, there is my proof, now just let the chips fall where they may.

rockets-fan
07-19-2013, 06:37 PM
How are you happy with this? Your joking right?

Joking about what? Having a defensive anchor who averaged a double double on the bench? Having a pest like pg defender who can hit the open three and drive in without fear? Or do you mean Garcia who can shoot the threes? Oh no you mean Monty or Jones, the young guns with a ton of potential that can strecth the floor. No I'm not kidding smart ***.

Can our bench be better, yes, he'll yes. Is is horrible. By no means.

rockets-fan
07-19-2013, 06:38 PM
Wow, your clueless, how old are you, cuz you don't know ******* about scouting, just give up man, I gave you a few things the lakers are working on, if it doesn't happen come talk to me. Fisher will be an assistant, Dantoni will be fired at the end of the season and Gooden is being worked out, thats insider info, no one is talking about, there is my proof, now just let the chips fall where they may.

Haha I could have guessed those things would happen besides the golden thing lol

HYFR
07-19-2013, 06:41 PM
The rox bench takes a poo poo on the the lakers bench. The lakers are def improved on the bench but that's it

RLundi
07-19-2013, 06:42 PM
Who are you, I have worked in the NBA for 15 years, you act like some sort of Basketball god, what are your credentials? You seem to have all the answers and are never wrong, yet you continue to discredit me, would you like some Tickets sometime or maybe a tour of the Laker facility? It's funny, there is no point trying, I have no reason to lie to anyone on here, I have allowed myself to get hammered on here, it doesn't faze me, read the insider info I just posted, and when it happens, make sure to come back and tell me what I don't know.

This is getting pathetic. You're not a scout, please stop, at this point you're just embarrassing yourself.

I'm embarrassed for you.

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 06:47 PM
Why am I bad?

You act irrational and insult too much. You need a more level head and not make outrageous claims. I get it, were all homers to an extent (I want nothing more than my team to succeed and I always feel like going back to how I was as a kid- my teams the greatest no matter what **** everyone else) but you go too far and give our fan base a badname

Bostonjorge
07-19-2013, 06:50 PM
If kobe, gasol, and Nash play whole season kobe will lead the lakers to a better record.

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 06:51 PM
98.6 pace was the highest pace in the league. That would have been 10 less than he even a decade ago. The pace won't matter.

Asik does not protect the rim like a healthy Dwight, which is what the Rox are expecting to get.

Why does comparing it to a decade ago matter? It'll be slowed down considerably regardless.

ElChinoLatino
07-19-2013, 06:54 PM
Wow, your clueless, how old are you, cuz you don't know ******* about scouting, just give up man, I gave you a few things the lakers are working on, if it doesn't happen come talk to me. Fisher will be an assistant, Dantoni will be fired at the end of the season and Gooden is being worked out, thats insider info, no one is talking about, there is my proof, now just let the chips fall where they may.

You just violated the concept of confidentiality. You just lost all credibility.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 06:56 PM
How doesn't it matter? 8 possession difference between the top and bottom. It just isn't a factor anymore.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 06:58 PM
I havent seen you evaluate anything, except use greater than, less than, and your evaluations were not accurate at all. If you are a scout, I need to apply to all 30 teams tomorrow.

Guppyfighter
07-19-2013, 07:00 PM
It depends. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG--YA80FsE

How many games like that one do the Lakers get.

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 07:01 PM
Some people here are in for a real shock when they see how much Howard has regressed unless his explosive athleticism returns. That was previously his main adavantage. Its never been skill.

Unless Mchale and Hakeem are good enopugh teach a 27 year old man how to play in the post to make up for the lost in athleticism I cant see the Rockes being better than a 4-5 seed. The Lakers should be right on their heels.

Guppyfighter
07-19-2013, 07:02 PM
Lakers can't be on their heels if they aren't in the playoffs.

3RDASYSTEM
07-19-2013, 07:10 PM
If Kobe, Nash and Pau are healthy there's no reason to believe the Lakers cant be every bit as good as the Rox in my opinion. With that said clearly the Rox have the better talent. But a healthy Kobe and Pau will make up for that. I don't know but I just don't put too much stock in Dwight. He is a major liability on the offensive end during crunch time.

PAU-bean won titles together so im sure that duo could work but did you witness the times that NASH-bean were on the court at same time, and also throw in that bean does a lot of his work off the dribble and in the post and that takes up some of PAU and mostly all of NASH's strengths(handle the ball to create), why do you think HOWARD signed with ROCKETS? had nothing to do with being a major liability because they all became that if they couldn't hit a wide open 3 or jump shot if bean decides to pass the ball at all in crunch time

a healthy bean makes for more points for him, he's chasing the scoring record at this stage of his nba life, nothing more nothing less

it clearly showed by the blockage of CP3 deal, then the hiring of MIKE D run and jack scoring offense coaching style, then to the not re signing of HOWARD after getting knocked out back to back 2nd rd playoff exits followed by a 1st rd sweep

its clearly he's not going for the ring, he avg 22ppg against MAVS in 11' playoffs, a sign that he can no longer do it big and go deep without PHIL-dominant big, healthy or bad knee he might as well put up points, he has his 5 rings in 17 JETER like yrs

kblo247
07-19-2013, 07:12 PM
For Lakers it comes down to health.

For the Rockets, they have to avoid that post all star collapse that they have had the past couple years. They have habitually faltered after the break, before and after Harden. Harden was bad post being named an ll star whereas Kobe and Curry were great. Had Harden kept up his play, let alone stepped up like those two Houston could have been a fifth seed over eight. The fact the rockets rare relatively healthy while the lakers werent and finished higher than them makes me say the rockets as constructed right now, even with Dwight, until they trade Asik are looking at 5/6. The lakers are looking at 6/7. Tie breaker could come into play once again

And yes there's a chance, lets not kid ourselves that the Lakers play up and Rockets don't meet the hype. By meeting the hype I mean, they become like Melos Knicks as opposed to Miami or Pau joining the lakers or Boston who all just clicked. Chemistry is fickle. Health withstanding the fact is LA has a bunch of guys who are hungrier than Houston from the coaches to the players; likewise there's no telling what dwight they get. He may play well, but just because he says the PC things doesn't mean the attitude and effort will be there, not does it mean the locker room will be peaceful looking at the last 3 years where Magic and Laker players have called him out for being a distraction/malcontent.

On paper, I would say the Rockets. That said games aren't won on paper or by metrics, they are won on the court. Yao and T-Mac, much more talented and much more complete talent than bargain bin Kobe and Shaq, should have taught Houston that. Rockets roster has holes. Lin isn't a knockdown shooter and he's injury prone. Dwight and Asik can't play together and both are able to be hacked. Harden is not efficent at all versus real teams, and he came down to earth over stepping up post all star break. I love Parsons though, I think he will ball his *** off. And who knows what Dwight shows up or if Mchale gets ol yeller treatment at the first slip up

Placing a bet, I would probably take the lakers for the odds for the payoff because Kobe being able to play from the start of the year and Pau/Nash is every bit a game changer

3RDASYSTEM
07-19-2013, 07:17 PM
Some people here are in for a real shock when they see how much Howard has regressed unless his explosive athleticism returns. That was previously his main adavantage. Its never been skill.

Unless Mchale and Hakeem are good enopugh teach a 27 year old man how to play in the post to make up for the lost in athleticism I cant see the Rockes being better than a 4-5 seed. The Lakers should be right on their heels.

But HOWARD's natural physical ability wont go away, its reason why SHAQ was so damn devastating because he used all his natural ability and had a mean on court streak and was about 380lbs at his 3peat glory and was listed at 7'2'', HOWARD is a poor man version without the mean streak and physical unreal prowess to back it up, but he is that in todays small center nba, minus a few big bodies if they stay healthy - BOGUT-BYNUM-ODEN-NOAH-HIBBERT-both GASOLs

Asik's better
07-19-2013, 07:21 PM
Rockets

kblo247
07-19-2013, 07:24 PM
But HOWARD's natural physical ability wont go away, its reason why SHAQ was so damn devastating because he used all his natural ability and had a mean on court streak and was about 380lbs at his 3peat glory and was listed at 7'2'', HOWARD is a poor man version without the mean streak and physical unreal prowess to back it up, but he is that in todays small center nba, minus a few big bodies if they stay healthy - BOGUT-BYNUM-ODEN-NOAH-HIBBERT-both GASOLs

Shaqs size and strength were great and helped but comparing Shaq and Dwight skills wise is like comparing a preschooler at the Y to a person with a phd. Shaq had drop steps, hooks with both hands, could hit his shots off glass, could finish and ones, and late in games and playoffs hit free throws. Don't even compare either ability to handle the ball, which is why Shaq doesn't get stripped at a rate Kwame Brown would cringe at. And their passing skills and Iq are worlds apart. Shaq could actually pass to cutters and shooters on the move, bounce, chest, touch, he could make the pass while Dwight needs stationary shooters. And the IQ boy, you could put the ball on the floor off the bounce or in his chest, and Shaq would catch it, keep it high and finish, whereas Dwight brings it low and always looks for the lob even when its not there (him and Nash had it out about that on TV).

Dwight was probably one of the least skilled laker center there was. Vlade, Shaq, Mikan, Kareem, Pau, Wilt, and Bynum are all miles ahead in terms of fundamental skills ... It is why Kareem quipped, if Hakeem can even teach him a hook that's reliable it will be one more consistent offensive move than he's ever had

Tymathee
07-19-2013, 07:25 PM
wow, 192 responses, sweet.

Htownballa1622
07-19-2013, 07:28 PM
Wow you really are dumb, scouts also evaluate a current NBA talent and free agents, which happens to be my job, and yes scouts are very much involved in the offseason plans including, free agency, draft and over seas. What would you like me to do? That would be smart for my career wouldn't it?

You just said Patterson was on the Rox. What scout would think that still?

Oh, that's right. No scout.

:laugh2:

Htownballa1622
07-19-2013, 07:34 PM
If kobe, gasol, and Nash play whole season kobe will lead the lakers to a better record.

If they play the whole season, their feet and back would fall off.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 07:34 PM
You act irrational and insult too much. You need a more level head and not make outrageous claims. I get it, were all homers to an extent (I want nothing more than my team to succeed and I always feel like going back to how I was as a kid- my teams the greatest no matter what **** everyone else) but you go too far and give our fan base a badname

You feel that its outrageous for me to think the Lakers will be better then the Rockets? And who did I insult? quote that for me please.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 07:39 PM
Out of the 12 votes for the Lakers 10 are Lakers fans...

And the Lakers wonder why people hate having to deal with them in the main forum... HOOOMMMMEERRRRSSSS....

Like I've said faith in your team is fine, but if you aren't smart enough of a fan to realize that you more than likely won't be better than the Rockets, than you should just stick to the Lakers forum. The blind homerism is just annoying.

nickdymez
07-19-2013, 07:51 PM
16 chips..... Beat that

Cracka2HI!
07-19-2013, 07:51 PM
I have a confession...I'm actually a scout for the Clippers. Unfortunatley I don't have any rings like the other scount in this thread...however I also have insider info. We're looking to win a lot of games and be a super dope team this year#proof!

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 08:00 PM
16 chips..... Beat that

And this is why people like you give Lakers fans a bad name. Throwing the thread off topic... So Celtics have a bunch of rings? Do you think any of their fans are dumb enough to think they'll have more wins than the Rockets? No.

Jenceman is right. People like you are the reason people on PSD hear "Lakers fan" and automatically discount your opinion. We get it. No matter what you think the Lakers are the best team in the West. We get it, and we still don't care.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 08:00 PM
I have a confession...I'm actually a scout for the Clippers. Unfortunatley I don't have any rings like the other scount in this thread...however I also have insider info. We're looking to win a lot of games and be a super dope team this year#proof!

Can I be GM? PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ!

tredigs
07-19-2013, 08:04 PM
This is pretty funny, let me ask you something, do you think getting, Wes Johnson, Kaman, Nick young and Farmar for a combined total of 6 million isn't a great deal for any team, your sorely mistaken. Last year they made a combined total of 17 million last year, and we got all four for 6 million, which is 1.5 million less than we would have paid peace. That is scouting, oh and 3 of the 4 are under 29 and solid contributers. Perimeter defense and inside anchor will be Wes Johnson, Steve Blake on the outside and Hill and Kaman on the inside, it's not perfect, but with the tempo we will use it will suffice.
Here is some inside info for you, Drew Gooden is working out right now for the Lakers, and don't plan on D'antoni being here after the season, there is a reason Rambis was hired and Phil Jackson seems to be getting more and more involved with the lakers as of late. How bout the Madsen hire, or the fact that Derek fisher is also here, talking about coaching. Those must be for Dantoni right, but I don't need to share any inside info with you clowns, but I will, because those laker fans on here, should have some faith, there is a plan. I'm done, I need to polish my rings. Cmoney out!

My man, the $6 mil is a great price only insofar as it helped fill out a thin roster for cheap. These guys did not come for this price because they were taking the minimum to join a contender, they did it because their prior performance indicated to the leagues GM's that this is where their value is currently at.

Wes Johnson and Blake are who you're claiming as the marquee perimeter defenders on the team?! The fact that they're backups and won't see more than half the game on the court aside, really? Both visually and through most advanced metric available publicly for defense, they show terribly (RAPM, Synergy, etc). And this is primarily against other backups.

Hill and Kaman on the inside? You'd have better luck with Pau than Kaman in the block, and although Hill has shown the ability to be a +defender, it's yet to come to fruition. I'll give you that I'm not giving up on him yet, though. Doesn't help that you're not exactly getting offensive juggernauts with these guys, either. Blake and Kaman are serviceable as backups, but Wes is flat terrible.

If the idea was to round out the team with an exciting product that hopefully fails to net you in the post-season and garners a lottery choice (while maintaining your cap situation for next season with 1 years), then I think they did a fine job. But let's not pretend that this team is competing with the firepower or defense of a squad like Houston or Golden State (the other team we've seen in a thread of "who will be better: Houston or GSW").

There's more than a decent chance it will be a bottom 5 defensive team without being a top 5 offensive team. That is an uphill climb for a chance at the playoffs in the West, especially when missed games will almost certainly be an ordeal for them.

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 08:23 PM
But HOWARD's natural physical ability wont go away, its reason why SHAQ was so damn devastating because he used all his natural ability and had a mean on court streak and was about 380lbs at his 3peat glory and was listed at 7'2'', HOWARD is a poor man version without the mean streak and physical unreal prowess to back it up, but he is that in todays small center nba, minus a few big bodies if they stay healthy - BOGUT-BYNUM-ODEN-NOAH-HIBBERT-both GASOLs

Huh?? It already as.

Plus everyone loses athletic ability as they age. Howard is not really superman ya know? Thats just a nickname for fun. What seperates the great players is as they age they increase their skill. Howard has yet to do that. Unless he suddenly decides to work on his offensive game and not be turnover machine and have "rudementary" offensive moves (as Jeff Van Gundy calls them) he will continue to regress. He no longer is the biggest baddest dude on the court everynight anymore. That statement will only be more true as time goes on.

What made Shaq great was he was even more physically dominant than Dwight but he also had solid moves in the post and was a great passer. He commanded a double team every time down the court. You could actually run the offense through him even down the stretch of games.

Howard on the other hand is not as physical gifted especially after back surgery and he is an awful passer. Most teams play Howard straight up and when they do double its not really to stop him but its actually to force turnovers since like I said he is just a horrible passer. Theres really no comparing the two.

tr3ymill3r
07-19-2013, 08:27 PM
Only 12 people have voted for the Lakers, and they are fighting tooth and nail to try not only to convince us but they are trying to convince themselves too. Whether they want to admit it or not, the best center in the league broke their hearts and they are trying to act tough by name calling and acting as if they don't care, but deep down they are crying and Rocket fans drink the tears of Laker fans.

Pakman
07-19-2013, 08:28 PM
Ive watched sports long enough to think the Lakers having a better record than the rockets isn't a ridiculous thought.

Edit: although unlikely.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-19-2013, 08:29 PM
Uh, I don't even think the Lakers are trying to have the better team. This is a throw away year.


But they should have more wins them last year

fresh prince
07-19-2013, 08:33 PM
Shaqs size and strength were great and helped but comparing Shaq and Dwight skills wise is like comparing a preschooler at the Y to a person with a phd. Shaq had drop steps, hooks with both hands, could hit his shots off glass, could finish and ones, and late in games and playoffs hit free throws. Don't even compare either ability to handle the ball, which is why Shaq doesn't get stripped at a rate Kwame Brown would cringe at.

And their passing skills and Iq are worlds apart. Shaq could actually pass to cutters and shooters on the move, bounce, chest, touch, he could make the pass while Dwight needs stationary shooters. And the IQ boy, you could put the ball on the floor off the bounce or in his chest, and Shaq would catch it, keep it high and finish, whereas Dwight brings it low and always looks for the lob even when its not there (him and Nash had it out about that on TV).

Dwight was probably one of the least skilled laker center there was. Vlade, Shaq, Mikan, Kareem, Pau, Wilt, and Bynum are all miles ahead in terms of fundamental skills ... It is why Kareem quipped, if Hakeem can even teach him a hook that's reliable it will be one more consistent offensive move than he's ever had

Amen.... Dwight is damm near an offensive liability.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-19-2013, 08:38 PM
Only 12 people have voted for the Lakers, and they are fighting tooth and nail to try not only to convince us but they are trying to convince themselves too. Whether they want to admit it or not, the best center in the league broke their hearts and they are trying to act tough by name calling and acting as if they don't care, but deep down they are crying and Rocket fans drink the tears of Laker fans.

I think most Laker fans are upset is because we got the broken down Dwight. He was nowhere near what he was in Orlando and probably what he will be going forward. He had a rehabilitation year and it was with us. We never got to see the great player that Dwight Howard was. Advanced stats say that he was equal to Samuel Dalembert last year. His win shares per for 48 minutes were awful. He had no explosion. He did not have one memorable dunk the entire year which is all is really known for on offense. his defensive numbers were the worst of his career. He was just a average player last year.

He was so awful in the playoffs it was kind of sad.We know he is so much better but we never got a chance to see it. I think that's the most frustrating part. so when a Laker fan says they don't care that he left, it is due to what we witnessed from him last season. there was a reason why people were saying Laker fans never truly accepted Dwight. he never gave us a reason to be excited that he was here. His play was subpar and not worth the max contract with the way the new CBA works. You cant tie your money up in a defensive specialist that hurts you offensively

tr3ymill3r
07-19-2013, 09:12 PM
I think most Laker fans are upset is because we got the broken down Dwight. He was nowhere near what he was in Orlando and probably what he will be going forward. He had a rehabilitation year and it was with us. We never got to see the great player that Dwight Howard was. Advanced stats say that he was equal to Samuel Dalembert last year. His win shares per for 48 minutes were awful. He had no explosion. He did not have one memorable dunk the entire year which is all is really known for on offense. his defensive numbers were the worst of his career. He was just a average player last year.

He was so awful in the playoffs it was kind of sad.We know he is so much better but we never got a chance to see it. I think that's the most frustrating part. so when a Laker fan says they don't care that he left, it is due to what we witnessed from him last season. there was a reason why people were saying Laker fans never truly accepted Dwight. he never gave us a reason to be excited that he was here. His play was subpar and not worth the max contract with the way the new CBA works. You cant tie your money up in a defensive specialist that hurts you offensively

Would you have preferred having Dwight who played all season, or Bynum who didn't play a game? Yes, he had a down year, but he was still better than everyone else at the position. As for the playoffs, the team completely changed once Kobe got hurt, so it's tough to put it all on him for the poor playoff performance.

dc5jdm
07-19-2013, 09:14 PM
I dont think the rockets are gonna be all that great. They are middle of the pack type of team. The lakers same thing. It all depends on health not only kobes but nash and howard for the rockets. Coming back from surgery doesn't always make u 100%

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 09:45 PM
Shut up. I've tried to be rational with you people. There is no reason. Your a ****in hater. Like all the well known haters in this thread including HAWKEYE. Lakers fans came in and supported their team and was attacked. So **** you

Dude Hawkeye does a damn good job of trying to be rational with everyone on this forum. He's played no favorites. He's got on my case before too. He's called me out when I'm wrong and vice versa. Pretty sure he's given me some warnings before (none I haven't deserved).

Every mod that comes to this consistently gets labeled. King4ADay was labeled as a LBJ fan/Laker hater when he use to try to contain this forum, and he wasn't even a Heat fan.

Just stay in the Lakers forum then man. I don't know what to tell you, but if you think the Lakers can have no talent, and win just because they have old Kobe and Pau? Where's prime Artest? Where's Fisher? Where's prime Kobe and Odom? They don't have depth. Kobe will always score. He's that good of a scorer. However his defense is getting worse. Pau is getting worse. The Lakers team in general is crap.

This is only a thread in general because Lakers fans now automatically hate the Rockets because a player they hate is there. They blame last season ENTIRELY ON DWIGHT. Yet where was Nash? Where was Gasol? One of the oldest lineups in the NBA can't stop from getting injured? No Way! Mean while Dwight plays slightly below his playing level while laboring through a torn labrum, and coming off back surgery! Plays for the most of the season hurt. Getting use to a new offense, and a new city. Meanwhile your city **** on him the entire time.

Now just like Lebron a few years ago we're suppose to believe all the same Lakers fans that he's now a bad player, because he switched teams. The same thing. The same dumb comments. "Dwight isn't a top 5 Center anymore you'll see". Same thing the year after Miami lost. "LBJ just don't got it, he'll never win a title". "Kobe is still the better all around player".

Dude this isn't my first rodeo. I heard the same **** from your crowd with Lebron, and I'm not sitting through another season of "Lakers forum chose which player they're going to attack".

bOOyah916
07-19-2013, 09:47 PM
i dont think the Lakers big 3 can stay healthy enough to compete throughout the whole season. Mainly Kobe. Achilles is no joke. Pau should be fine, but Nash and Kobe will miss some time. I give Houston the advantage.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 09:47 PM
Who are you, I have worked in the NBA for 15 years, you act like some sort of Basketball god, what are your credentials?

My credentials? Look dude, I don't pretend to hold a job I have no business holding, and consider myself exponentially better at the job you are claiming to have, based on your posts.


You seem to have all the answers and are never wrong, yet you continue to discredit me, would you like some Tickets sometime or maybe a tour of the Laker facility?

You are discrediting yourself. You literally did a "scouting" report with </>, and said Nick Young equals Chandler Parsons, and then tried to tell me the Lakers bench was better than the Rox. If I am your boss, and you are a scout for me, I fire you from that post.


It's funny, there is no point trying, I have no reason to lie to anyone on here, I have allowed myself to get hammered on here, it doesn't faze me, read the insider info I just posted, and when it happens, make sure to come back and tell me what I don't know.

You are basically being caught in your own lies. No actual NBA scout, of member of operations, will divulge the information you are. They are fired for that. So man up, admit you are lying, and move on.

Iron24th
07-19-2013, 09:51 PM
I think houston will be a 5-6th seed while LA will be a 7-8th seed.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 09:53 PM
My credentials? Look dude, I don't pretend to hold a job I have no business holding, and consider myself exponentially better at the job you are claiming to have, based on your posts.



You are discrediting yourself. You literally did a "scouting" report with </>, and said Nick Young equals Chandler Parsons, and then tried to tell me the Lakers bench was better than the Rox. If I am your boss, and you are a scout for me, I fire you from that post.



You are basically being caught in your own lies. No actual NBA scout, of member of operations, will divulge the information you are. They are fired for that. So man up, admit you are lying, and move on.

But don't disappear. We still got a bet going. :).

tr3ymill3r
07-19-2013, 10:07 PM
Nobody and I mean NOBODY that posts on here works for the NBA. Period. For those of you pretending to work in the NBA just stop. For those of you getting upset over someone trolling you on the internet just stop it and figure it out. Some of you on here are really stoopid.

ztilzer31
07-19-2013, 10:09 PM
Nobody and I mean NOBODY that posts on here works for the NBA. Period. For those of you pretending to work in the NBA just stop. For those of you getting upset over someone trolling you on the internet just stop it and figure it out. Some of you on here are really stoopid.

In order for a troll to be successful someone actually has to believe him lol. No one believes that guy.

Pablonovi
07-19-2013, 10:18 PM
Hawkeye, how long have you been on this site? And yet you still argue with Nickeydimez?

Hi all,
Pablo here, first post. Long-time reader (couple of years at least). LONG time NBA fan (from age 8 back in the days when N.Y.City area T.V.'s only had 3 total channels (and went "test screen" (bands of rainbow colors OR concentric circles) from about 10pm to 8am). My dad was an NBA fanatic from George Mikan's first game. So he's to blame for my rabidity(!). WHENEVER the NBA was on TV (even and especially those brutally agonizing tape-delayed play-off games (YIKES)); he and I would be frozen in front of the set.
N.B. His only serious gripe in 65 years of NBA fan-age; was that Bill Russel was over-rated (yes, maybe the best team mate ever; but NOT the best player in the NBA (every year somebody was better: Cousy the first year (iirc); at least one of: Wilt, the Big O, West (maybe Baylor) the other years of his 5 MVP regular seasons. The MVP voting was dominated by the east coast writers, esp. Boston-influenced). His opinion and mine, btw. I can't put big Bill in my all-time top 10; but can't leave him out of my top 15 or so.

But I promised myself that I would NOT post until I was ready to post something serious (like my all-time top 50 NBA players. (And I'm working on it).

But damn, this post just tore me up so much, I can't help myself, I gotta post something light as my very first post. Really, Hawkeye, I deeply respect you much of the time due to your brilliance; and you drive me crazy occasionally due to your idiocy. (Nobody's perfect; especially not me). But damn, this is just too funny!

Thanx J4KOP99 for the 16 funniest words I think I've ever read on this site.

carlthack
07-19-2013, 10:20 PM
Rockets will have more regular season wins. Lakers will have more post-season wins.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2013, 10:51 PM
Hi all,
Pablo here, first post. Long-time reader (couple of years at least). LONG time NBA fan (from age 8 back in the days when N.Y.City area T.V.'s only had 3 total channels (and went "test screen" (bands of rainbow colors OR concentric circles) from about 10pm to 8am). My dad was an NBA fanatic from George Mikan's first game. So he's to blame for my rabidity(!). WHENEVER the NBA was on TV (even and especially those brutally agonizing tape-delayed play-off games (YIKES)); he and I would be frozen in front of the set.
N.B. His only serious gripe in 65 years of NBA fan-age; was that Bill Russel was over-rated (yes, maybe the best team mate ever; but NOT the best player in the NBA (every year somebody was better: Cousy the first year (iirc); at least one of: Wilt, the Big O, West (maybe Baylor) the other years of his 5 MVP regular seasons. The MVP voting was dominated by the east coast writers, esp. Boston-influenced). His opinion and mine, btw. I can't put big Bill in my all-time top 10; but can't leave him out of my top 15 or so.

But I promised myself that I would NOT post until I was ready to post something serious (like my all-time top 50 NBA players. (And I'm working on it).

But damn, this post just tore me up so much, I can't help myself, I gotta post something light as my very first post. Really, Hawkeye, I deeply respect you much of the time due to your brilliance; and you drive me crazy occasionally due to your idiocy. (Nobody's perfect; especially not me). But damn, this is just too funny!

Thanx J4KOP99 for the 16 funniest words I think I've ever read on this site.

no doubt I can be tough to deal with at times, I just can't stand trolls, or complete homers. I mean, cmon.

I have Russell barely clinging to my top 10, and I only put him there out of public perception. He played with 7 HOF'ers? He was a liability on the offensive end, and I just can't put a man who played against no competition, with the talent he had, with the liabilities he endured, in my top 10 ever.

Pablo, I am a self admitted Laker hater, and I do my best to be fair. I think I do a good job, but I know I have my moments where it comes out.

Welcome to PSD

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 10:54 PM
I have a confession...I'm actually a scout for the Clippers. Unfortunatley I don't have any rings like the other scount in this thread...however I also have insider info. We're looking to win a lot of games and be a super dope team this year#proof!

Lol! We should should talk about some players on your team, that we can use over here with lakers, come see me at Staples Center Monday and Wednesday's office 132.

L8kers4life
07-19-2013, 10:57 PM
In order for a troll to be successful someone actually has to believe him lol. No one believes that guy.

I don't even believe myself. Man it's pretty easy to stir up craziness, in here, the fact that it has lasted this long, it's funny! I stopped posting 3 hours ago, I come back and there 15 pages of madness!

Aust
07-19-2013, 11:04 PM
I would be shocked if the Lakers won more games. I hope we don't.

Jenceman
07-19-2013, 11:17 PM
How doesn't it matter? 8 possession difference between the top and bottom. It just isn't a factor anymore.

8 possessions can play quite a difference when we're talking about the effectiveness of a role player.

Cracka2HI!
07-19-2013, 11:41 PM
Lol! We should should talk about some players on your team, that we can use over here with lakers, come see me at Staples Center Monday and Wednesday's office 132.

We really want Blake back :jumpy:

Pablonovi
07-19-2013, 11:43 PM
no doubt I can be tough to deal with at times, I just can't stand trolls, or complete homers. I mean, cmon.

I have Russell barely clinging to my top 10, and I only put him there out of public perception. He played with 7 HOF'ers? He was a liability on the offensive end, and I just can't put a man who played against no competition, with the talent he had, with the liabilities he endured, in my top 10 ever.

Pablo, I am a self admitted Laker hater, and I do my best to be fair. I think I do a good job, but I know I have my moments where it comes out.

Welcome to PSD

Hawkeye,
Well, I've regretted what I said about you from about the moment I posted it. But then, I didn't want to leave some technical inaccuracies and so edited three times; and maybe that was the limit of either the allowable or my skills. Permit me to try to be a lot clearer and fairer. Despite your anti-Lakerism; imo you, on the whole are an excellent moderator, nothing less. Your struggle to fight the pro-Russell decades long perception is gutsy because such a position almost automatically gets one labeled in the worst of ways. (For the same reason, I'll end up ranking KAJ above MJ, I'll be going against 95% of all NBA fans. But, whereas so many want to somehow hold longetivity against KAJ, who wouldn't rather have 18 years of best-at-your-position over 13 such years. ) Sorry this thread isn't about this stuff; I just include it to try to indicate a little about my thinking - I try to be as little swayed by public pressure as possible). Getting back to you; gee I just have so much respect for your job as moderator AND your overall stands (outside of your self-acknowledged anti-Laker bias). Please accept my apologies for coming across much more critical of you than I really feel or ever really intended.

Your measured response to my post is just another proof that you do know how to moderate. No way should the word "idiocy" have been in my comments about you; just a straight-out sloppy choice of adjectives (thank goodness you are big enough to not take big offense).

About my vote. Yes I voted Lakers. Can I defend such a long-shot position? Not really. If the Lakers play pretty much injury free (not impossible), if Kobe plays like I'm hoping (can't fight the hope), and if the Rocket have some serious chemistry issues (imo likely); then and only then will the Lakers beat out the Rockets in the regular season. But even then, it'd be by a tiny margin. And, then there's the fact that I just couldn't get myself (on my very first pole) to vote against my favorite team of the last 55 years.

P.S. It was the black-white combo of Baylor-West that was so gorgeous basketball-wise AND so right morally-wise that conquered my heart towards the NBA and the Lakers (even though I was born an East-Coaster. (I also loved Robertson-Lucas). My family would travel to the south 1-4 times a year; and the racism (including the 3 bathroom system: men, women and colored (not even a serviceable facility) just enfuriated me.

Keep up the excellent mod work,
Pablo

Cracka2HI!
07-19-2013, 11:55 PM
In 2 posts Pablo became the weirdest poster on PSD.

Pakman
07-20-2013, 12:10 AM
In 2 posts Pablo became the weirdest poster on PSD.lmfao. My exact thoughts.

Hawkeye15
07-20-2013, 12:10 AM
8 possessions can play quite a difference when we're talking about the effectiveness of a role player.

you are clinging to a stat that just isn't going to be important.

aTinyPanda
07-20-2013, 12:18 AM
In 2 posts Pablo became the weirdest poster on PSD.

Dude. idk if this is an elaborate trolling set up by one of Hawk's greatest arch-nemesis or just a man who has a strong appreciation for the written word.

Either way I lol'd hard at your commentary.

Chrisclover
07-20-2013, 12:42 AM
Kobe has a more glamourous mentality compared with Howard

provide some reasons why you believe the lakers will be better than the rockets, it'll make for more interesting discussion.

L8kers4life
07-20-2013, 01:34 AM
We really want Blake back :jumpy:

Can you guys get us connected with Keith Closs or Olawakandi, we need some depth at the center position! Lol

goku
07-20-2013, 01:43 AM
Kobe- Harden= Harden maybe better, but you should know more than anyone never Doubt Kobe
Parsons-Nick Young= pretty close, but I will give it to Parsons
Lin-Nash= Nash 40 or not, he is still much better, In Dantoni system without Dwight, Nash will Flourish
Pau-Asik= Pau
Howard-Kaman or Hill= Howard
So Parsons and Howard have the advantage, but not overwhelming

Bench= LA
Coach= I dont care what anyone says, McHale has proved nothing at this point. Dantoni, one of only 3 coaches to beat Phil Jackson in a playoff series. I will take DAntoni.
History= Lakers
Health= Rockets
Defense=Rockets
Chemistry= Lakers, Dwight is a cancer, Rocket fans, come talk to me in January when Dwight begins his whining.

So to your point, yes Top heavy talent goes to the rockets, but that didnt do the Lakers any good last year, you guys are 1 Dwight injury or Harden Injury from being irrelevant. And dont say that cant happen, because it happens all the time, See, Dwight, Westbrook, Kobe, Rode, it happens.

:laugh::laugh:

and what if Dwight causes no problems ? I mean he chose Houston nobody put a gun up to his head and made him choose oh and now Kaman and hill = Howard such Blasphemy if I've heard it

L8kers4life
07-20-2013, 02:01 AM
:laugh::laugh:

and what if Dwight causes no problems ? I mean he chose Houston nobody put a gun up to his head and made him choose oh and now Kaman and hill = Howard such Blasphemy if I've heard it

I didn't mean they were equal to Howard, everything on the right side of the = sign is who is the better player! I definitly do not think Kaman-hill are equal to Howard, Howard is the Second best player of all these guys, Harden being the first due to Kobe's injury.

L8kers4life
07-20-2013, 02:07 AM
:laugh::laugh:

and what if Dwight causes no problems ? I mean he chose Houston nobody put a gun up to his head and made him choose oh and now Kaman and hill = Howard such Blasphemy if I've heard it

It was about a year and half ago, Dwight made a stink about getting traded to Houston, in a few months when Dwight is unhappy and creates a bad culture in the locker room, don't say Laker fans didn't warn you, if you don't believe me, see what Dwight's last 30 teammates think of him!

Pablonovi
07-20-2013, 11:57 AM
In 2 posts Pablo became the weirdest poster on PSD.

Guilty. Can "weird" be beautiful? hehe

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 11:58 AM
Wow. I guess this is proof that there are at least 18 brain-dead people on PSD.

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 12:14 PM
Kobe- Harden= Harden maybe better, but you should know more than anyone never Doubt Kobe
Parsons-Nick Young= pretty close, but I will give it to Parsons
Lin-Nash= Nash 40 or not, he is still much better, In Dantoni system without Dwight, Nash will Flourish
Pau-Asik= Pau
Howard-Kaman or Hill= Howard

So Parsons and Howard have the advantage, but not overwhelming

Bench= LA
Coach= I dont care what anyone says, McHale has proved nothing at this point. Dantoni, one of only 3 coaches to beat Phil Jackson in a playoff series. I will take DAntoni.
History= Lakers
Health= Rockets
Defense=Rockets
Chemistry= Lakers, Dwight is a cancer, Rocket fans, come talk to me in January when Dwight begins his whining.

So to your point, yes Top heavy talent goes to the rockets, but that didnt do the Lakers any good last year, you guys are 1 Dwight injury or Harden Injury from being irrelevant. And dont say that cant happen, because it happens all the time, See, Dwight, Westbrook, Kobe, Rode, it happens.

I don't doubt Kobe either, but I know for a fact that Harden will definitely be better next season

If Nash can stay healthy, then no doubt. But that's a big if.

History doesn't mean jack **** in the playoffs. Get that **** out of here.

McHale hasn't proven anything, agreed, but look at the teams he has coached. An tanking Minnesota team and a rebuilding Rockets team. Now he has two top 7 guys at the very least and a very solid core around them. Dantoni's winning seasons came with a top 10 all time PG in his prime (and healthy too might I add) along with arguably the top PF at the time.

Chemistry is your assumption, we'll see what happens when the ball hits the court.

Pablonovi
07-20-2013, 12:18 PM
Dude. idk if this is an elaborate trolling set up by one of Hawk's greatest arch-nemesis or just a man who has a strong appreciation for the written word.

Either way I lol'd hard at your commentary.

Love your comment AND the comment to which you responded. I'm "too old to troll". I think when you pass a certain age (60?), it's just not something you can find either the stomach for (too dirty for me) or the necessary perserverance (such a stupid waste of time). "Hawk's greatest arch-nemesis": as many others have said, you gotta be an over-the-reasonable limit homer to be an arch-nemesis of Hawk - he's too fair and pretty damn sharp b-ball wise. Most of the heavy battles I've seen involving Hawk; he was clearly right (and darned patient too) and the other guy/gal was just ... wrong.

I used to think I was, b-ball wise, sharper than 90% percent of all fans; it might have been true. But analysis of the NBA game and its players has gone from infancy to (young-)adulthood; and I have to admit I haven't kept up. Maybe I'm still sharper than half the fans; but I'm still just getting used to the meaning and true value of the advanced stats. And, some of the stuff I read (here by a few posters, and on some "pro" basketball sites) blows me away by how much more (than I do) of this game they see and are on-top-of.

As an example, some author at Grantland (are we allowed to name other sites?, if not, sorry, mods go ahead and delete the name) wrote about this year's NBA finals. In one article he included a series of video clips. His break-down of every sequence just stunned me: how the defense adjusted to the particular players and schemes, how the offense then adjusted to that) In the two years or so I've been "lurking" here; in virtually every thread (general and Lakers); I inevitably find some post that is a better analysis than I could have written. Humility is a good thing.

"... just a man who has a strong appreciation for the written word" - This part of your comment moved me the most. I've seen (and been in the middle of) more than my fair share of "flame wars" and fan-battles. I really try to be super-careful with what I say so as to: make as much of a contribution as I can; not violate the etiquette of the group involved; and help sharpen clarity, so that, we agree as much as possible, and where we can't, at least we understand reasonably well exactly on what basis we disagree.
Thanx,
Pablo

KnicksFan4Years
07-20-2013, 12:18 PM
Wow. I guess this is proof that there are at least 18 brain-dead people on PSD.

Nah, Team+Chemistry always trumps individual talent.

Healthy Nash+Healthy Jordan Hill+Pau without Howard in the way+Kaman+Kobe+improved bench+plus full preseason with D'Antoni+smaller role for Asik+Houston needing to work things out chemistry wise+etc +etc.

I am a Knicks fan, but if Lakers were healthy last year, I think they would have made it to the Finals. Kobe had achieved a new level in D'Antoni's offense. The team was starting to click and win. In the half court style of the playoffs, the Lakers would have been a very tough out.

Also, Houston plays in a tougher division. If the Lakers suffer no major injuries, I think the Lakers finish with a slightly better record.

aTinyPanda
07-20-2013, 12:32 PM
Love your comment AND the comment to which you responded. I'm "too old to troll". I think when you pass a certain age (60?), it's just not something you can find either the stomach for (too dirty for me) or the necessary perserverance (such a stupid waste of time). "Hawk's greatest arch-nemesis": as many others have said, you gotta be an over-the-reasonable limit homer to be an arch-nemesis of Hawk - he's too fair and pretty damn sharp b-ball wise. Most of the heavy battles I've seen involving Hawk; he was clearly right (and darned patient too) and the other guy/gal was just ... wrong.

I used to think I was, b-ball wise, sharper than 90% percent of all fans; it might have been true. But analysis of the NBA game and its players has gone from infancy to (young-)adulthood; and I have to admit I haven't kept up. Maybe I'm still sharper than half the fans; but I'm still just getting used to the meaning and true value of the advanced stats. And, some of the stuff I read (here by a few posters, and on some "pro" basketball sites) blows me away by how much more (than I do) of this game they see and are on-top-of.

As an example, some author at Grantland (are we allowed to name other sites?, if not, sorry, mods go ahead and delete the name) wrote about this year's NBA finals. In one article he included a series of video clips. His break-down of every sequence just stunned me: how the defense adjusted to the particular players and schemes, how the offense then adjusted to that) In the two years or so I've been "lurking" here; in virtually every thread (general and Lakers); I inevitably find some post that is a better analysis than I could have written. Humility is a good thing.

"... just a man who has a strong appreciation for the written word" - This part of your comment moved me the most. I've seen (and been in the middle of) more than my fair share of "flame wars" and fan-battles. I really try to be super-careful with what I say so as to: make as much of a contribution as I can; not violate the etiquette of the group involved; and help sharpen clarity, so that, we agree as much as possible, and where we can't, at least we understand reasonably well exactly on what basis we disagree.
Thanx,
Pablo

I feel you man. I lurked here and in the Timberwolves sub for years before I started posting, mainly because I was intimidated by those whom used advanced stats like gurus to make their case. I'm still learning how to break them all down, and more importantly which context is important when providing specific stats as an argument (how teammates affect a given stat, for one example). Hawk is a frequent poster in the TWolves sub and I agree he is usually well measured in his approach to an argument.

I like your approach to your posts. Even though there are constant flame wars (especially in the Main forum) we're really all here to learn from each other and add to our perspectives by listening to other well thought out positions. Well, a lot of us are here to do that anyway. We're all inherently homers to a degree, but it makes for better conversation to put that in your back pocket and try to be objective. Some are here to start fights. I'm still struggling with ignoring those dudes. But as in life, so it shall be on a message board lol. Momma always told me to just ignore em' if they aren't being reasonable. I rarely listened.

I never believed you were a troll, it was just an (admittedly VERY) entertaining idea to kick around in my head.. because if that were the case, like I said, it would be one of the most elaborate trolling endeavors I have come across. Keep doing what you're doing and you'll make a lot more friends than enemies here. Welcome to the boards!

Also, as far as I know it is fine to reference other sources as long as you provide a link to said source and cite it properly. There's a sticky somewhere in the main board that explains this, if I recall correctly.

RiceOnTheRun
07-20-2013, 12:33 PM
Nah, Team+Chemistry always trumps individual talent.

Healthy Nash+Healthy Jordan Hill+Pau without Howard in the way+Kaman+Kobe+improved bench+plus full preseason with D'Antoni+smaller role for Asik+Houston needing to work things out chemistry wise+etc +etc.

I am a Knicks fan, but if Lakers were healthy last year, I think they would have made it to the Finals. Kobe had achieved a new level in D'Antoni's offense. The team was starting to click and win. In the half court style of the playoffs, the Lakers would have been a very tough out.

Also, Houston plays in a tougher division. If the Lakers suffer no major injuries, I think the Lakers finish with a slightly better record.

Oh come on. Don't pull the "If they were healthy" ****. We should know best as we have a ****ing 20 million bomb on our team, who "if healthy" would've at least made some impact.

Kobe had achieved a new level because he had 0 help from any of the other Lakers offensively. Dantoni didn't do **** in that offense anyways, it was basically "Here Kobe, carry us" and let him run for 38 minutes a game. Basically zero input offensively, which is supposed to be the only reason any dumbass of a GM would hire him. If not for what, his defense?

The Spurs came 5 seconds from beating the Heat in 6 games. How the hell do a healthy Lakers beat the Spurs team that almost beat a better team in the Heat? Nobody on the Lakers is even keeping up with Tony Parker and Dwight/Pau are going to have their hands full with Duncan/Splitter. Plus the Spurs bench would slaughter the Lakers bench. Spurs beat the Lakers by double digits every game while basically on cruise control. No chance the Lakers would beat them, even healthy.

aTinyPanda
07-20-2013, 12:37 PM
Wow. I guess this is proof that there are at least 18 brain-dead people on PSD.

*17. I misclicked when I voted.

ztilzer31
07-20-2013, 02:41 PM
Wow. I guess this is proof that there are at least 18 brain-dead people on PSD.

Well look at who voted for the Lakers... All this thread proves is that there is too many damn Lakers fans.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-20-2013, 02:52 PM
Nah, Team+Chemistry always trumps individual talent.

Healthy Nash+Healthy Jordan Hill+Pau without Howard in the way+Kaman+Kobe+improved bench+plus full preseason with D'Antoni+smaller role for Asik+Houston needing to work things out chemistry wise+etc +etc.

I am a Knicks fan, but if Lakers were healthy last year, I think they would have made it to the Finals. Kobe had achieved a new level in D'Antoni's offense. The team was starting to click and win. In the half court style of the playoffs, the Lakers would have been a very tough out.

Also, Houston plays in a tougher division. If the Lakers suffer no major injuries, I think the Lakers finish with a slightly better record.

Great post. Kobe was in beast mode before he went down, I have no doubt we would have made it to the finals with a healthy Kobe. I was also go on record saying that the Lakers will win another championship before the Rockets do.

ManRam
07-20-2013, 02:55 PM
So, what we can gather from this poll is that many Lakers fans, and maybe 5-10% of the rest of the population, think LA will be better than Houston. The other 90-95% of the population think it's Houston as well as some Lakers fans who don't mind thinking objectively.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-20-2013, 02:57 PM
So, what we can gather from this poll is that many Lakers fans, and maybe 5-10% of the rest of the population, think LA will be better than Houston. The other 90-95% of the population think it's Houston as well as some Lakers fans who don't mind thinking objectively.

So what? La will win another championship before Houston anyways.

Hellcrooner
07-20-2013, 03:02 PM
So, what we can gather from this poll is that many Lakers fans, and maybe 5-10% of the rest of the population, think LA will be better than Houston. The other 90-95% of the population think it's Houston as well as some Lakers fans who don't mind thinking objectively.

I havent voted.

I think its too early to tell.

Theres a lot of offseason remaining.

If houst adds some kind of bench it should be a LOCK for them to have the better record.

Then there is a lot of variebles to consider, for BOTH TEAMS.
Health, Coaching ( or lack of it), Chemistry between players and etc etc.

On paper, Rockets > Lakers.
On reality? we wil ahve to wait and see.

Btw, how many people would have voted last year during the summer for say ... Nuggets having a better record than the lakers?

ManRam
07-20-2013, 03:04 PM
So what? La will win another championship before Houston anyways.

I don't think you can say that with any sort of explanation why, other than "it's because it's the LA LAKERS!".

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you certainly can't be certain of that.

I mean, you couldn't even name for me, with certainty, one player that will be on the team 2-3 years from now.