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ecorrea
07-17-2013, 04:41 PM
he never retired from basketball after the 92/93 season and if the bulls weren't broken up after the 97/98 season.

i was recently thinking about the nba all time greats, and how there are arguments for who should be at the top, who is making a case for the top, etc... and got me thinking about what could have been. would have been interesting to see a bulls rockets matchup (think bulls take at least 1 of 2 there), and then post 97/98 season a bulls spurs or bulls lakers matchup (another 1 or 2).

lets say jordan won 8 straight, or even 9 over 11 years, how much does something like that separate him from the rest?

i know we shouldn't base arguments on "if's," but just curious what peoples thoughts are... and i know jordan may have even brought some of this on himself (gambling habits, selfishness, etc.), however its not hard to imagine his teams winning at least a couple more given the opportunities.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-17-2013, 04:47 PM
In this huge Jordan "what if he didn't retire" situation you HAVE to take under consider that those 2 years were basically retirement for him. The strain he had from swinging the bat every 30-45 minutes on a minor league team with no pressure to be really good is NOTHING compared to what he had with players swarming him in the NBA expecting him to make every shot, win every game, AND guard the best (or second best) perimeter player on the other team.

What IF his play somewhat degraded by the 97-98 season after taking a toll trying win 5 years in a row? I don't think he would have won 8 the championship in a row OR that he wouldve been able to come back in 2001.

That break was an incredible break both mentally and physically.

ecorrea
07-17-2013, 04:51 PM
yea i agree. was going to mention that too. i would guess he wins at least 4 but then guessing the rockets probably break it up. then goes for more.

ecorrea
07-17-2013, 04:54 PM
bulls rockets would have been epic though. i loved bulls suns but this matchup would have had potential to blow it out of the water... i mean bulls knicks was better than most.

bulls lakers would have been pretty frickin cool too. kobe/shaq v jordan/pippen...

giventofly
07-17-2013, 04:56 PM
8

Gibby23
07-17-2013, 04:58 PM
4

effen5
07-17-2013, 04:59 PM
The entire decade

Chronz
07-17-2013, 05:02 PM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 05:02 PM
I'd say 9 or 10... Hakeem in 94 was no joke

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 05:03 PM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

exactly

smiddy012
07-17-2013, 05:07 PM
I think it's safe to say that they woulda atleast gotten one more ship.

I'm sure MJ did benefit from the rest, that said don't forget how handily he won his championships - he never saw a game 7 in the finals. Even a 90% MJ would have been enough to win the 6 rings they did, that's how much he dominated in the clutch.

Although what benefit MJ got from his retirement was purely mental IMO. Don't forget that MJ was a freak of nature physically, and he was pretty good at maintaining his physical performance. Also, MJ compensated for his loss of athleticism by working more on his skillset as his career went on.

So it could very well be argued that he in fact stunted his own development as a basketball player due to his retirement.

ecorrea
07-17-2013, 05:08 PM
for those of you who have kareem, russell, magic or anyone else for that matter above jordan...

how many rings, mvps, etc would it take to get jordan over the hump?? or do the rings/mvps not matter and you have those guys above him for other reasons?

RowBTrice
07-17-2013, 05:12 PM
ALL of them

LivinLakers
07-17-2013, 05:38 PM
I know for certain that The Rockets would have two less rings. There is no way that team with 1 star and a usually hung over coach would beat Jordan and the Bulls.

Becks2307
07-17-2013, 05:41 PM
he could have gone down as better. Imagine if we get to swamp his 00+ seasons for mid 90s ones?

LivinLakers
07-17-2013, 05:44 PM
BTW, Jordan is the greatest ever,and you don't need extra rings to prove it. Even if Kobe or Lebron or whoever gets 7+ rings, I have never seen a player dominate and put his stamp on a game as often as Jordan did. Every game you watched him you could tell that he was better than everyone else on the floor.

nycericanguy
07-17-2013, 05:46 PM
I think it's safe to say that they woulda atleast gotten one more ship.

I'm sure MJ did benefit from the rest, that said don't forget how handily he won his championships - he never saw a game 7 in the finals. Even a 90% MJ would have been enough to win the 6 rings they did, that's how much he dominated in the clutch.

Although what benefit MJ got from his retirement was purely mental IMO. Don't forget that MJ was a freak of nature physically, and he was pretty good at maintaining his physical performance. Also, MJ compensated for his loss of athleticism by working more on his skillset as his career went on.

So it could very well be argued that he in fact stunted his own development as a basketball player due to his retirement.

Agreed, and you weren't going to beat MJ in the finals, so if he made it, he'd find a way and will to win, period.

The guy was scoring 50 at 40... in his early 30's his endurance was no issue, not to mention the 1st round was only best of 5 at that time... which is how it should be now.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:20 PM
he never retired from basketball after the 92/93 season and if the bulls weren't broken up after the 97/98 season.

i was recently thinking about the nba all time greats, and how there are arguments for who should be at the top, who is making a case for the top, etc... and got me thinking about what could have been. would have been interesting to see a bulls rockets matchup (think bulls take at least 1 of 2 there), and then post 97/98 season a bulls spurs or bulls lakers matchup (another 1 or 2).

lets say jordan won 8 straight, or even 9 over 11 years, how much does something like that separate him from the rest?

i know we shouldn't base arguments on "if's," but just curious what peoples thoughts are... and i know jordan may have even brought some of this on himself (gambling habits, selfishness, etc.), however its not hard to imagine his teams winning at least a couple more given the opportunities.

7/8 or 8/8

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:23 PM
BTW, Jordan is the greatest ever,and you don't need extra rings to prove it. Even if Kobe or Lebron or whoever gets 7+ rings, I have never seen a player dominate and put his stamp on a game as often as Jordan did. Every game you watched him you could tell that he was better than everyone else on the floor.

Thank you for realizing it to as a Laker fan. Playing against MJ was so unfair. I feel bad for all the stars of the 90's.

asandhu23
07-17-2013, 06:26 PM
I swear this question gets asked every other week on here.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 08:42 PM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

You must make millions with your predictions.

Lo Porto
07-17-2013, 08:50 PM
BTW, Jordan is the greatest ever,and you don't need extra rings to prove it. Even if Kobe or Lebron or whoever gets 7+ rings, I have never seen a player dominate and put his stamp on a game as often as Jordan did. Every game you watched him you could tell that he was better than everyone else on the floor.

Except for when Isaiah used to dominate him. MJ is overrated. He never won anything without Pippen and Phil. Top 5 player all time but no GOAT.

Lo Porto
07-17-2013, 08:52 PM
Thank you for realizing it to as a Laker fan. Playing against MJ was so unfair. I feel bad for all the stars of the 90's.

Jordan averaged 13ft per game on the finals. Of course it was unfair.

JordansBulls
07-17-2013, 10:40 PM
Except for when Isaiah used to dominate him. MJ is overrated. He never won anything without Pippen and Phil. Top 5 player all time but no GOAT.

Isiah shot 40% in 1988, 39% in 1989, 40% in 1990, 41% in 1991 vs the Bulls and he didn't even average more than 20 ppg in any of those series. Explain to me in what way is that dominating?

Pippen didn't become a star until he played with MJ. And Phil was a nobody until he came to the Bulls. If he was soo good he would have had jobs from other teams. Only one GM even gave him a chance and it was a team that had already been in the Conference Finals before Phil even came. Not like he went to a team that was out in round 1 or no playoffs and then turned them around. And it is because of Chicago of why Phil had success in LA. Even Shaq said the only reason they listened to Phil was because of what happened in Chicago.

JordansBulls
07-17-2013, 10:44 PM
Jordan averaged 13ft per game on the finals. Of course it was unfair.

And Karl Malone actually had more fta in the 1997 finals than MJ.

Bullsfan22
07-17-2013, 11:07 PM
I think he splits the two Rockets' championships. More importantly his unblemished Finals record goes bye bye and that taints his legacy. If I had to direct MJ's career I'd let him do what ever he wanted to.

CluTcH_c1tY
07-17-2013, 11:17 PM
I think he splits the two Rockets' championships. More importantly his unblemished Finals record goes bye bye and that taints his legacy. If I had to direct MJ's career I'd let him do what ever he wanted to.

People don't realize the Rockets were a bad matchup for the Bulls. For the record MJ did play in the 95 playoffs and got ousted by Shaq's Magic, which then went on to get swept in the Finals. The Rockets also had winning regular season records for the Bulls in the early 90s. Who on the Bulls was going to stop Hakeem, when he was on tear? Sports is all about matchups, the Sonics had the Rockets number in the 90s, the Suns had the Sonics number, but the Rockets had the Suns number. Weird outcomes but some teams were able to do better against certain teams.

TorontoHuskies
07-17-2013, 11:23 PM
A better thread would have been how many would he have won if zone defence was allowed when he played.

thephoenixson28
07-17-2013, 11:33 PM
If Jordan never retires, space jam never exist.

tkshy
07-17-2013, 11:43 PM
I thought you were gonna ask how many if Portland drafted him #2 and he and Drexler were the Pippen/Jordan.

Oh and to the guy who said he didn't win without Pippen and Jackson....do you also think less of Lebron because he couldn't win without Wade Bosh Spolstra?

Pierzynski4Prez
07-17-2013, 11:45 PM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

Hard to know whether Horace would somehow have stayed a bull in 94-95 if they were coming off a 4th straight in 94. I don't remember the circumstances on him signing with Orlando.

ryder78c
07-17-2013, 11:55 PM
what if portland Drafted him and scottie pippen

rhino17
07-18-2013, 12:06 AM
Well, Jordan did play in 95, he just did not make it to the finals, he lost to Orlando.

For 94, the 94 rockets were the best equipped team to handle the Bulls (better than 95). Vernon Maxwell was the key, he hounded Jordan like no one else ever did, but was kicked off the team for the 95 playoffs. maxwell covering Jordan and Elie helping off the bench, I take the rockets in that series.

people also forget that Jordan did not have a winning record against the 90s rockets, the only team that can claim that

Becks2307
07-18-2013, 12:35 AM
Then again Jordan never lost in the finals, so what precedent do we have to claim he would have?

shep33
07-18-2013, 12:49 AM
8. I have no doubts about this. We're talking about MJ and Scottie in their primes.

smiddy012
07-18-2013, 01:30 AM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

+10 troll points

smiddy012
07-18-2013, 01:36 AM
Well, Jordan did play in 95, he just did not make it to the finals, he lost to Orlando.

For 94, the 94 rockets were the best equipped team to handle the Bulls (better than 95). Vernon Maxwell was the key, he hounded Jordan like no one else ever did, but was kicked off the team for the 95 playoffs. maxwell covering Jordan and Elie helping off the bench, I take the rockets in that series.

people also forget that Jordan did not have a winning record against the 90s rockets, the only team that can claim that

In case you forgot, the MJ that lost to the Magic in 95 was freshly back from retirement. Even Magic players commented that he didn't play like himself.

Edit: And while you're at it, MJ was 24-0 with HCA in the playoffs, never saw a game 7 in the finals, and had the best defensive streak (late 80s) for any guard ever.

LeperMessiah
07-18-2013, 01:42 AM
I really don't think it would have made a difference.

SouthSideRookie
07-18-2013, 01:46 AM
In case you forgot, the MJ that lost to the Magic in 95 was freshly back from retirement. Even Magic players commented that he didn't play like himself.

********- 31 points 6.5 rebounds 4.5 assists 2.5 steals and 1.4 blocks per game in those playoffs. Who did the Bulls go get the very next season.

MickeyMgl
07-18-2013, 01:47 AM
More than five, but fewer than seven.

apocalypse15
07-18-2013, 02:37 AM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

So you aren't sure....

FOBolous
07-18-2013, 02:42 AM
More than five, but fewer than seven.

this.


:laugh2:

hidalgo
07-18-2013, 03:12 AM
I think had he not retired, they would have won maybe 9 in a row, possibly 10, cause I think they would have even won in 2000 as well(but not after 2001 & on, too old by then). at least 8 out of those 10 years. assuming they traded for Rodman just a few months earlier to have him for the 1995 playoffs & on. I really think Jordan would have never retired if he knew then what he knows now(KB with his 3 shaq titles runnin out bragging like him possibly getting 6 would be equal, hah), I think he'd have maxed out his ring count had he seen the future

they were never truly dethroned, giving them a real sense of invincibility. I think they'd have won 10 straight, 91-2000

brandt
07-18-2013, 03:22 AM
I know for certain that The Rockets would have two less rings. There is no way that team with 1 star and a usually hung over coach would beat Jordan and the Bulls.

How do you know for certain? You don't. Hakeem wasn't the only star either. Remember Clyde Drexler? They would have never won without him. Robert Horry, Mario Eli, Sam Cassell, Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell were no slouches either. Give me a break dude! That was a great team during those back to back wins.

SanAntonioSpurs23
07-18-2013, 03:27 AM
8

This

Lake_Show2416
07-18-2013, 03:31 AM
8

Lo Porto
07-18-2013, 09:31 AM
Isiah shot 40% in 1988, 39% in 1989, 40% in 1990, 41% in 1991 vs the Bulls and he didn't even average more than 20 ppg in any of those series. Explain to me in what way is that dominating?

Pippen didn't become a star until he played with MJ. And Phil was a nobody until he came to the Bulls. If he was soo good he would have had jobs from other teams. Only one GM even gave him a chance and it was a team that had already been in the Conference Finals before Phil even came. Not like he went to a team that was out in round 1 or no playoffs and then turned them around. And it is because of Chicago of why Phil had success in LA. Even Shaq said the only reason they listened to Phil was because of what happened in Chicago.
Pippen was nothing without Jordan and Jordan was just stats without Pippen. MJ won one playoff series without Pippen in his career. One. They were a perfect match of skills yet Bull fans glorify MJ and disregard Pippen's influence.

FYL_McVeezy
07-18-2013, 09:33 AM
If Jordan doesn't retire in 93 and he stayed until around with Pip and Rodman until 01-02....I'd give him 2 more rings......

Lo Porto
07-18-2013, 09:41 AM
Jordan would not have won 8 straight. You fans and your idol worship.... Jordan retired to avoid betting issues that might have had NBA influence. And to get a much needed break. 8 straight wouldn't have happened even if the NBA and refs gave him every advantage on the court.

3RDASYSTEM
07-18-2013, 09:58 AM
The bigger ? is what if STERN didn't come in and tame the bad boys? what if he told DREXLER and KNICKS players they couldn't touch JORDAN anymore?

that's the thing, STERN tamed the bad boys and others defensively so JORDAN could start this epic modern day run, he was good but not this untouchable media toy

I don't see how he was beating all these other teams so magically when he was basically owned previous yrs, the JORDAN rules owned him and he cried about it each yr he got shut down in the 4th qtr and sent home

would JORDAN have beaten bad boys without the major assistance from STERN-refs?

DREAM would have won back to back regardless if GRANT was there or not or RODMAN, the 96' season was rigged so JORDAN was going to win it regardless, 72-10 record

ChicagoJ
07-18-2013, 10:30 AM
They probably win at least 2 more. I wouldnt bet against mj.

Without Horace or rodman they aren't the same team though. Ppl never talk about Horace, but he was a huge part of their championships. It was the big 3 with them, not just Scottie and mj.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-18-2013, 12:13 PM
Pippen was nothing without Jordan and Jordan was just stats without Pippen. MJ won one playoff series without Pippen in his career. One. They were a perfect match of skills yet Bull fans glorify MJ and disregard Pippen's influence.

You do know they were only 3 years apart, and Jordan basically didn't even play his 2nd season. But sure keep looking for any stat, no matter how ridiculous.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-18-2013, 12:17 PM
Jordan would not have won 8 straight. You fans and your idol worship.... Jordan retired to avoid betting issues that might have had NBA influence. And to get a much needed break. 8 straight wouldn't have happened even if the NBA and refs gave him every advantage on the court.

Wait, so over 8 years in the 90s, Jordon won 6 titles, didn't play a year, and played 17 regular season games in the other, yet its Idol Worship that has us all believing that he likely would have just won 8 straight had he not retired?

Pierzynski4Prez
07-18-2013, 12:18 PM
The bigger ? is what if STERN didn't come in and tame the bad boys? what if he told DREXLER and KNICKS players they couldn't touch JORDAN anymore?

that's the thing, STERN tamed the bad boys and others defensively so JORDAN could start this epic modern day run, he was good but not this untouchable media toy

I don't see how he was beating all these other teams so magically when he was basically owned previous yrs, the JORDAN rules owned him and he cried about it each yr he got shut down in the 4th qtr and sent home

would JORDAN have beaten bad boys without the major assistance from STERN-refs?

DREAM would have won back to back regardless if GRANT was there or not or RODMAN, the 96' season was rigged so JORDAN was going to win it regardless, 72-10 record

It's a good thing you never had the chance to watch any of those series, because then you'd have to completely reverse your position. But I'm glad you have this inside information of Stern's doing in the 80s.

shep33
07-18-2013, 12:50 PM
'94 was a for sure title. Scottie took the Knicks to 7 by himself. '95 a little more tricky, but still... MJ was in his prime, same with Scottie.

They would've beat Orlando had MJ not been rusty. Remember he had a terrible year, shot only 41% from the floor. Didn't have his legs under him, wasn't in NBA shape.

NYKalltheway
07-18-2013, 12:55 PM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

No Jordan retirement and maybe the Bulls pull a deal that brings someone over and there's no Rodman in Bulls at all... ;)

valade16
07-18-2013, 01:04 PM
Jordan would not have won 8 straight. You fans and your idol worship.... Jordan retired to avoid betting issues that might have had NBA influence. And to get a much needed break. 8 straight wouldn't have happened even if the NBA and refs gave him every advantage on the court.

I'm going to make the case that Jordan's legacy would actually be slightly tarnished had he stayed around for that long time, even had he gotten another ring or 2.

I know it sounds crazy but hear me out.

Part of the mystic of Jordan is once he got a competent team around him and hit his prime he didn't lose. It's the common perception: that Jordan won every title he seriously attempted to acquire once he hit his prime and had a solid team.

Now, had he kept playing those 2 middle years and even after the '98 season that would not be the case. It's possible he could've won both titles in 94 and 95, but not probable. Consider the only team to have a winning record against Jordan when on the Bulls was Hakeem and the Rocekts, which is the team that went to the finals both years. It would've been a dog fight either way.

Which brings me to my next point, had he won both those there are suddenly no guarantees he wins the next 3 peat. Just because it's in history now wouldn't mean it would be set in stone the Bulls won those next 3 because they happened in a parrallel universe. Getting to the Finals year in and year out takes its toll. He would've been to 5 or 6 straight NBA Finals and 2 Olympics during that time. That could've created such fatigue that he would've let 1 or 2 slip away towards the end.

Which brings me to my 3rd point, the OP said had they kept the core and continued past 98. Remember this core was starting to get up there in age by that time. Had they kept going there is no doubt they could've kept being competitive but how likely is it they get past those Lakers teams of 99-01 being as old and overworked as they were? I think it's very remote they keep winning titles every year against those Lakers.

Which brings me my final point, all it would take is 1 or 2 NBA Finals losses to completely shatter the aura surrounding Jordan's invincible-ness. He is already considered the GOAT. Whether he had 6 or 8 rings isn't going to change that. The people who think someone else is better than Jordan will still have the same arguments to bring up against him (Russell won more; watered down league; needed pippen, etc.). They would ring just as hollow at 8 rings as they do at 6, but they would still be there.

But the whole mystic surrounding Jordan's desire to win being able to overcome anything would be shattered, because there would've been losses, teams and talent that he couldn't have overcome. I still think he would be viewed as the GOAT, since at the end of the day he would have a monstrous amount of titles, but I think some of the mystery and legend that accompanies MJ would be lost.

So in retrospect, I'm glad it all turned out as it did.

miller74
07-18-2013, 01:08 PM
Im sure the 2 years off helped with the finals 3 rings, but its tough to imagine them losing in 94 or 95.

dhopisthename
07-18-2013, 01:21 PM
I don't think they would have won 8 straight as they would have just worn down. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened to the heat next year. it is just hard to play that many more games then other team

ecorrea
07-18-2013, 01:22 PM
i wish we could have seen bulls rockets, but honestly im more upset that krause broke up the bulls after the second utah series...

that team easily had 3-4 years left in them, maybe not winning a ring every year, but i think a couple more for sure. kobe/shaq vs jordan/pippen woulda been epic.

ecorrea
07-18-2013, 01:26 PM
i guess one of the biggest reasons i posted the thread was to get peoples thoughts on whether these missed seasons should factor into the GOAT discussion.

but as it sounds like half the people think it would have helped (win a couple more, potentially even crazier streaks) while others think it could have potentially tarnished (lose a couple, wear down, lose the mystic) i guess its almost a wash and where he is now (based on whatever your thoughts are) is maybe right where he should be.

todu82
07-18-2013, 01:37 PM
I think he would have won 2 more (1994 and 1999)

Pierzynski4Prez
07-18-2013, 02:39 PM
It's just a shame that he retired at a point (twice actually) where he was easily the best player in the game. Sure by 98 he was declining, but still was the MVP and well above the rest of the league.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-18-2013, 05:21 PM
8. I have no doubts about this. We're talking about MJ and Scottie in their primes.

Winner!

LegendsNvrDie23
07-18-2013, 05:27 PM
It's just a shame that he retired at a point (twice actually) where he was easily the best player in the game. Sure by 98 he was declining, but still was the MVP and well above the rest of the league.

I know, all Jordan had to do was play two more years adding in 1 or 2 more rings and he would be untouchable for eternity. Maybe some kid in the future can catch him, but no active player has a shot.

MickeyMgl
07-19-2013, 11:29 AM
Jordan would not have won 8 straight. You fans and your idol worship.... Jordan retired to avoid betting issues that might have had NBA influence. And to get a much needed break. 8 straight wouldn't have happened even if the NBA and refs gave him every advantage on the court.

This. Especially the part about the much-needed break. The playoffs took a total of about three weeks in Bill Russell's day. Today they take about two months. Since the playoffs expanded, every team that reaches the Finals three straight years is exhausted by year four. Every one. Only twice in the past 40 years has a team even reached 4 straight Finals.

Jordan, out of exhaustion, - and perhaps some pressure from the commissioner - chose to take a break rather than even try for four. To assume that he and the Bulls were going to beat Hakeem, whose teams had a winning record against Jordan's Bulls whenever they went head to head throughout their career, is as you say, idol worship. The Bulls never had to face a great center in the Finals. Hakeem would've most likely been Jordan's waterloo.

Lo Porto
07-19-2013, 11:52 AM
Jordan was incredible for the first three titles. He had help from the refs and NBA of course wanting to push the massive media image that was becoming MJ, but he was fantastic regardless. Those were great titles. The last three titles were because the Bulls were just that much better than everybody else. Those were some of the best constructed teams in the history of the NBA. You had a 20ppg scorer at PG playing second fiddle, MJ, Pippen, the best defensive/rebounding PF of the era, and a few serviceable centers. On the bench, they had a do everything top 3 Euro in Kukoc and a Mark Price clone in Steve Kerr in addition to a bunch of other well placed role players.

There would have been something lost in translation had Jordan not retired. Would the Bulls been able to acquire Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, etc.? Would Jordan and Pippen have held up physically and mentally? MJ's break and the Bulls reinvention led them to the 2nd three peat. No way in hell do they win 8 straight.

Sly Guy
07-19-2013, 12:19 PM
He loses in 95 without Horace and no Rodman, that much Im (99%)certain of.

yep.

And the 94' rockets as mentioned might have gotten him too.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-19-2013, 12:42 PM
Jordan was incredible for the first three titles. He had help from the refs and NBA of course wanting to push the massive media image that was becoming MJ, but he was fantastic regardless. Those were great titles. The last three titles were because the Bulls were just that much better than everybody else. Those were some of the best constructed teams in the history of the NBA. You had a 20ppg scorer at PG playing second fiddle, MJ, Pippen, the best defensive/rebounding PF of the era, and a few serviceable centers. On the bench, they had a do everything top 3 Euro in Kukoc and a Mark Price clone in Steve Kerr in addition to a bunch of other well placed role players.

There would have been something lost in translation had Jordan not retired. Would the Bulls been able to acquire Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, etc.? Would Jordan and Pippen have held up physically and mentally? MJ's break and the Bulls reinvention led them to the 2nd three peat. No way in hell do they win 8 straight.

That's funny.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-19-2013, 12:43 PM
This. Especially the part about the much-needed break. The playoffs took a total of about three weeks in Bill Russell's day. Today they take about two months. Since the playoffs expanded, every team that reaches the Finals three straight years is exhausted by year four. Every one. Only twice in the past 40 years has a team even reached 4 straight Finals.

Jordan, out of exhaustion, - and perhaps some pressure from the commissioner - chose to take a break rather than even try for four. To assume that he and the Bulls were going to beat Hakeem, whose teams had a winning record against Jordan's Bulls whenever they went head to head throughout their career, is as you say, idol worship. The Bulls never had to face a great center in the Finals. Hakeem would've most likely been Jordan's waterloo.

You are over exaggerating the exhaustion thing a bit. First off, round 1was just a best of 5 which helps slightly. Then, factor in the Bulls just were barely losing games which obviously helps keeps the legs fresh from round to round. Here is the amount of games they lost during the 6 title runs: 2, 7, 4, 3, 4, 6. So only 2 out of 6 runs they played over 19 playoff games. Then factor in that they never lost a 1st round game giving them extra rest each year prior to round 2. After that, in the 2nd round the Bulls only had to play over 5 games 1 time. So clearly they found ways to keep fresh for the entire playoffs, which I think 6 wins in the finals out of 6 attempts helps prove that.

THE MTL
07-19-2013, 12:44 PM
I say he would gotten at least 2 more titles if not 3. Definitely 1 after both retirements with the Bulls....and possibly taking both titles from Houston

BooCain
07-19-2013, 01:03 PM
i guess one of the biggest reasons i posted the thread was to get peoples thoughts on whether these missed seasons should factor into the GOAT discussion.

but as it sounds like half the people think it would have helped (win a couple more, potentially even crazier streaks) while others think it could have potentially tarnished (lose a couple, wear down, lose the mystic) i guess its almost a wash and where he is now (based on whatever your thoughts are) is maybe right where he should be.

He would have beaten the rockets both times and the spurs. It wouldnt hav been a leakers team cuz Phil Jackson would hav still been coaching jordan and Kobe probably would hav been traded cuz they was a disfuntional team with all the players they had. Plus Jordan would hav gotten at least 3 more mvp awards too.

Lo Porto
07-19-2013, 02:48 PM
That's funny.

The Pistons owned MJ and the Bulls for two straight playoffs. Then all of the sudden, they couldn't touch him.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-19-2013, 03:21 PM
The Pistons owned MJ and the Bulls for two straight playoffs. Then all of the sudden, they couldn't touch him.

It's called turning into the player he is today, you know the GOAT...