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HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:06 PM
2012 & 2013 he has 2 Titles, 2 Finals MVP's, 2 Season MVP's, Gold Medal, 27 Game Win Streak also then the 30+, 60+% streak

Obviously Jordan in 91 & 92 but man this is the greatest 2 year stretch I have ever seen

LakeShowRaider
07-16-2013, 03:11 PM
Shaq during the 3peat, Kobe during his back to back.

boboo73
07-16-2013, 03:12 PM
Shaq during the 3peat, Kobe during his back to back.

Not to mention you cant control if there is an Olympics during the time you win a finals.

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:12 PM
Shaq during the 3peat, Kobe during his back to back.

They got back to back MVP's? 27 game win streak? Gold Medal? & I'm with you on Shaq, he's close but Kobe? Miss me with that...

UPRock
07-16-2013, 03:18 PM
I agree with Shaq, but Kobe? Nope.

D_Rose1118
07-16-2013, 03:21 PM
They got back to back MVP's? 27 game win streak? Gold Medal? & I'm with you on Shaq, he's close but Kobe? Miss me with that...


2008- MVP, Gold Medal, Finals runner up
2009- Finals Champion, Finals MVP
2010- Finals CHampion, Finals MVP

kobe had a great streak from 2008-2010
up with lebron

naps
07-16-2013, 03:21 PM
Shaq during the 3peat, Kobe during his back to back.

Shut up, read the thread properly, do some research, and then post. Kobe doesn't belong everywhere like some of you think. Jeez!

boboo73
07-16-2013, 03:24 PM
Seeing as prior to 1988 the Olympics were not even an option for a pro athlete the sample size of eligible candidates is rather small.

Some of those 27 games in that streak were also won in spite of Lebrons poor play early on. It is almost like you are giving him full credit for it. If that were the case I would say MJ's 72-10 record is more impressive. The Heat lucked out with a string of awful teams or injury plagued decent teams.

Obviously Lebron is great but your question is one that you already know the answer to so why even ask it?

Iron24th
07-16-2013, 03:25 PM
Shut up, read the thread properly, do some research, and then post. Kobe doesn't belong everywhere like some of you think. Jeez!

Shut up, stop bashing everyone who's talking about Kobe.

ztilzer31
07-16-2013, 03:27 PM
Shaq's were pretty amazing. Especially if you put into context how he played in the finals. LBJ played great, but Shaq played like a machine.

P.S. I just don't put that much value into gold medals. Especially when you consider half the players were taking the olympics off in the early 2000's, and they only happen once every 4 years....

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:28 PM
Seeing as prior to 1988 the Olympics were not even an option for a pro athlete the sample size of eligible candidates is rather small.

Some of those 27 games in that streak were also won in spite of Lebrons poor play early on. It is almost like you are giving him full credit for it. If that were the case I would say MJ's 72-10 record is more impressive. The Heat lucked out with a string of awful teams or injury plagued decent teams.

Obviously Lebron is great but your question is one that you already know the answer to so why even ask it?

I don't think a team has ever lost 27 games straight so I'm pretty sure it's hard to win 27 games in a row. I don't care who they were playing & who were injured. That is a GREAT accomplishment and they had a lot of double digit deficits to overcome.

& I think MJ's 72-10 was better also, what's your point? I'm not giving him all of the credit but he was the driving force and MVP of that team

boboo73
07-16-2013, 03:30 PM
I don't think a team has ever lost 27 games straight so I'm pretty sure it's hard to win 27 games in a row. I don't care who they were playing & who were injured. That is a GREAT accomplishment and they had a lot of double digit deficits to overcome.

& I think MJ's 72-10 was better also, what's your point? I'm not giving him all of the credit but he was the driving force and MVP of that team

I never said it wasnt hard or a great accomplishment but seeing as only one other team has had a longer win streak why are you bothering to ask a question that only has one answer?

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:33 PM
I never said it wasnt hard or a great accomplishment but seeing as only one other team has had a longer win streak why are you bothering to ask a question that only has one answer?

I didn't ask who had the longest winning streak. There are plenty of things that could happen within 2 years. Maybe someone on this forum can inform me on some great runs that Magic Johnson, Wilt Chamberlain, or Kareem had

bucketss
07-16-2013, 03:41 PM
2008- MVP, Gold Medal, Finals runner up
2009- Finals Champion, Finals MVP
2010- Finals CHampion, Finals MVP

kobe had a great streak from 2008-2010
up with lebron

how does the trophy for finals runner up look like?

boboo73
07-16-2013, 03:44 PM
No you didnt ask for the longest win streak but you used it as part of the criteria for accomplishments, along with the gold medal, which as stated only is pertinent to players after 1988.

1965–66 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 33.5 PPG, 24.6 RPG
1966–67 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 24.1 PPG, 24.2 RPG
1967–68 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 24.3 PPG, 23.8 RPG

Ill take that over a gold medal.

Bellz
07-16-2013, 03:48 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

bucketss
07-16-2013, 03:48 PM
No you didnt ask for the longest win streak but you used it as part of the criteria for accomplishments, along with the gold medal, which as stated only is pertinent to players after 1988.

1965–66 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 33.5 PPG, 24.6 RPG
1966–67 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 24.1 PPG, 24.2 RPG
1967–68 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 24.3 PPG, 23.8 RPG

Ill take that over a gold medal.

monster numbers on 6'7 white guys cool.

Slug3
07-16-2013, 03:48 PM
2008- MVP, Gold Medal, Finals runner up
2009- Finals Champion, Finals MVP
2010- Finals CHampion, Finals MVP

kobe had a great streak from 2008-2010
up with lebron

The 2 season MVP's is what puts Lebron's run above Kobe. Playoff wise you are correct.

nickdymez
07-16-2013, 03:50 PM
So Lebron was the sole reason for the 27 game winning streak? Lebron was the reason we won gold? Here we go again. The Lebron praise threads for no reason. Put this **** in the Heat forum please...

nickdymez
07-16-2013, 03:50 PM
The 2 season MVP's is what puts Lebron's run above Kobe. Playoff wise you are correct.

MVP is a joke of an award...

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:51 PM
No you didnt ask for the longest win streak but you used it as part of the criteria for accomplishments, along with the gold medal, which as stated only is pertinent to players after 1988.

1965–66 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 33.5 PPG, 24.6 RPG
1966–67 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 24.1 PPG, 24.2 RPG
1967–68 Wilt Chamberlain MVP - 24.3 PPG, 23.8 RPG

Ill take that over a gold medal.

Too bad he doesn't have titles in all of those years, Only so many stats were around for so long so I guess I should take off Finals MVP & I guess you can't use rebounds because it wasn't there for George Mikan's entire career.

Btw, those are some awesome stats

D_Rose1118
07-16-2013, 03:51 PM
how does the trophy for finals runner up look like?

it looks like the western conference championship trophy

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/v/laker-team-pics/Lakers+2009+Western+Conference+Champions+trophy.jp g.html

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:53 PM
So Lebron was the sole reason for the 27 game winning streak? Lebron was the reason we won gold? Here we go again. The Lebron praise threads for no reason. Put this **** in the Heat forum please...

How stupid of me to praise one of the guys to win MVP & Finals MVP in back to back years

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:53 PM
it looks like the western conference championship trophy

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/v/laker-team-pics/Lakers+2009+Western+Conference+Champions+trophy.jp g.html

I think he meant the trophy that matters the most

bucketss
07-16-2013, 03:54 PM
So Lebron was the sole reason for the 27 game winning streak? Lebron was the reason we won gold? Here we go again. The Lebron praise threads for no reason. Put this **** in the Heat forum please...

but you have no problem flashing kobes 5 rings like he did himself, even though 3 he was a sidekick, 1 you can argue gasol was better.

valade16
07-16-2013, 03:55 PM
What about Larry Bird?

1984-1986

3 Straight MVPs
3 Straight NBA Finals trips
2 Championships
2 Finals MVP

And I'd bet solid money he would've won any Olympic competitions had he been able to enter...

bucketss
07-16-2013, 03:55 PM
it looks like the western conference championship trophy

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/v/laker-team-pics/Lakers+2009+Western+Conference+Champions+trophy.jp g.html

well, they would get that even if they won in the finals. :D

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 03:55 PM
LeBron:
2011-12:
30.7 PER (led the league)
14.5 win shares (led the league)
.298 WS/48 (led the league)
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Finals MVP

2012-13:
31.6 PER (led the league)
19.3 win shares (led the league)
.322 WS/48 (led the league)
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Finals MVP
27 game win streak



Shaq had one year with leading in PER, WS, WS/48, MVP, Finals MVP, but was not 1st team all defense. He is out.

Kobe is out, for obvious reasons, his numbers and accolades don't measure up at all.

The only answer is Jordan (90-91, 91-92), who accomplished literally the same stat measure, all NBA teams, MVP's and Finals MVP's. The only blemish is Jordan's PER, while being the highest in 91-92', was 27.7.

lakerboy
07-16-2013, 03:56 PM
how does the trophy for finals runner up look like?

I don't know -- but Lebron had the same record as this in the past 3 years. One runner up finals, 2 championships.

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:57 PM
A lot of you guys don't know the difference between two years & three years

ztilzer31
07-16-2013, 03:58 PM
What about Larry Bird?

1984-1986

3 Straight MVPs
3 Straight NBA Finals trips
2 Championships
2 Finals MVP

And I'd bet solid money he would've won any Olympic competitions had he been able to enter...

Bird's were pretty damn good. He definitely had a better cast and crew than LBJ, but those were Bird's prime years.

I'm already tired of hearing gold medal like it's a big deal lol. The Olympics are a joke.

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:59 PM
LeBron:
2011-12:
30.7 PER (led the league)
14.5 win shares (led the league)
.298 WS/48 (led the league)
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Finals MVP

2012-13:
31.6 PER (led the league)
19.3 win shares (led the league)
.322 WS/48 (led the league)
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Finals MVP
27 game win streak



Shaq had one year with leading in PER, WS, WS/48, MVP, Finals MVP, but was not 1st team all defense. He is out.

Kobe is out, for obvious reasons, his numbers and accolades don't measure up at all.

The only answer is Jordan (90-91, 91-92), who accomplished literally the same stat measure, all NBA teams, MVP's and Finals MVP's. The only blemish is Jordan's PER, while being the highest in 91-92', was 27.7.

A lot of people are gonna complain about these stats, you know "those" people don't like advanced stats, stats, & MVP's

valade16
07-16-2013, 04:01 PM
A lot of you guys don't know the difference between two years & three years

No, I'm pretty sure we just think it's an arbitrary number designed solely to come to the answer you want us to...

Heck, if you switch to 3 years Larry Bird's 3 year run was as or more impressive than LeBron's in terms of accolades. So what is your point? That LeBron is good? One of the best ever?

We already knew that.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 04:03 PM
What about Larry Bird?

1984-1986

3 Straight MVPs
3 Straight NBA Finals trips
2 Championships
2 Finals MVP

And I'd bet solid money he would've won any Olympic competitions had he been able to enter...

Well, the OP is asking about the last 2 years, and Larry didn't win consecutive chips, Finals MVPs, nor did he ride 1st team all defense while putting up a PER of over 30. But he did have 2 consecutive years there.

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 04:04 PM
No, I'm pretty sure we just think it's an arbitrary number designed solely to come to the answer you want us to...

Heck, if you switch to 3 years Larry Bird's 3 year run was as or more impressive than LeBron's in terms of accolades. So what is your point? That LeBron is good? One of the best ever?

We already knew that.

So LeBron was the only one to have a great run in 2 years? Okay, my bad I didn't know... I thought there were more

beliges
07-16-2013, 04:04 PM
Eh. There are plenty of great players who have had just as good as a two year stretch. I dont think it was much of a surprise the Heat won 2 titles back to back with that roster. Lebron put them over the edge clearly and was excellent but even he admittedly said he wanted to play alongside Wade and Bosh to make winning a title easier. But, i would say that players like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Hakeem, Bird all have had just as significant two year stretches.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 04:05 PM
No, I'm pretty sure we just think it's an arbitrary number designed solely to come to the answer you want us to...

Heck, if you switch to 3 years Larry Bird's 3 year run was as or more impressive than LeBron's in terms of accolades. So what is your point? That LeBron is good? One of the best ever?

We already knew that.

I imagine the debate would grow if you asked about LeBron's last 3 years. Because quite honestly, Jordan is the only retort that has any legs for a comparison to Bron's last 2 years.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 04:05 PM
Eh. There are plenty of great players who have had just as good as a two year stretch. I dont think it was much of a surprise the Heat won 2 titles back to back with that roster. Lebron put them over the edge clearly and was excellent but even he admittedly said he wanted to play alongside Wade and Bosh to make winning a title easier. But, i would say that players like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Hakeem, Bird all have had just as significant two year stretches.

like who? Seriously.

ghettosean
07-16-2013, 04:05 PM
how does the trophy for finals runner up look like?

Ask Lebron after he lost to Dirk in 2011 (oh wait that should have gone to Wade)

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 04:06 PM
So LeBron was the only one to have a great run in 2 years? Okay, my bad I didn't know... I thought there were more

there are plenty of players who had awesome 2 year stretches, he just put together arguably the best 2 year stretch ever however.

ThunderousDemon
07-16-2013, 04:06 PM
Another circle jerk thread.

5ass
07-16-2013, 04:07 PM
No, I'm pretty sure we just think it's an arbitrary number designed solely to come to the answer you want us to...

Heck, if you switch to 3 years Larry Bird's 3 year run was as or more impressive than LeBron's in terms of accolades. So what is your point? That LeBron is good? One of the best ever?

We already knew that.

Except Lebron's run is not over yet.

bucketss
07-16-2013, 04:09 PM
Ask Lebron after he lost to Dirk in 2011 (oh wait that should have gone to Wade)

why should i ask lebron lol, dude you have an issue with bron, did he refuse to sign an autograph for you one day?

bucketss
07-16-2013, 04:11 PM
like who? Seriously.

he mentioned kobe as one of them LOL

valade16
07-16-2013, 04:12 PM
Well, the OP is asking about the last 2 years, and Larry didn't win consecutive chips, Finals MVPs, nor did he ride 1st team all defense while putting up a PER of over 30. But he did have 2 consecutive years there.

Here's a crazy stat for Bird concerning the Defense though.

In 1985 he was 1st in Offensive Win Shares and 2nd in Defensive Win Shares
In 1986 he was 2nd in Offensive Win Shares and 1st in Defensive Win Shares

Also, his Defensive Win Shares in 1986 were 6.2, which is just slightly below Bron's best but would be Bron's 2nd best Win Shares ever. He was a great defensive player back in the day.

Also, Larry Legend led the league in PER, Total Wins Shares, and WS/48 those seasons, while winning 2 MVPs and going to the Finals twice, losing narrowly to the Showtime Lakers (a team I'm sure we can agree was no joke).

Now I'm not saying those years were better, but they were certainly within striking distance of Bron's, and when you extend the arbitrary measuring stick to 3 years it gets even closer.

bucketss
07-16-2013, 04:12 PM
Eh. There are plenty of great players who have had just as good as a two year stretch. I dont think it was much of a surprise the Heat won 2 titles back to back with that roster. Lebron put them over the edge clearly and was excellent but even he admittedly said he wanted to play alongside Wade and Bosh to make winning a title easier. But, i would say that players like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Hakeem, Bird all have had just as significant two year stretches.

yep a injured wade, and bosh who score ZERO points in game 7, and was looking more like andrea bargnani through out the playoffs made lebrons job so much easier.

ewmania
07-16-2013, 04:14 PM
lol tim duncan, michael jordan, shaq, magic johnson, larry bird, bill russell

bucketss
07-16-2013, 04:15 PM
No, I'm pretty sure we just think it's an arbitrary number designed solely to come to the answer you want us to...

Heck, if you switch to 3 years Larry Bird's 3 year run was as or more impressive than LeBron's in terms of accolades. So what is your point? That LeBron is good? One of the best ever?

We already knew that.

shut it, let us have our circle jerk in peace wth man:D

ghettosean
07-16-2013, 04:15 PM
why should i ask lebron lol, dude you have an issue with bron, did he refuse to sign an autograph for you one day?

:laugh:

Stupidest joke I've seen on PSD yet! I expect nothing less just like your "What does a running up trophy look like" :rolleyes:

bucketss
07-16-2013, 04:15 PM
lol tim duncan, michael jordan, shaq, magic johnson, larry bird, bill russell

you sure about that?

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 04:21 PM
Here's a crazy stat for Bird concerning the Defense though.

In 1985 he was 1st in Offensive Win Shares and 2nd in Defensive Win Shares
In 1986 he was 2nd in Offensive Win Shares and 1st in Defensive Win Shares

Also, his Defensive Win Shares in 1986 were 6.2, which is just slightly below Bron's best but would be Bron's 2nd best Win Shares ever. He was a great defensive player back in the day.

Also, Larry Legend led the league in PER, Total Wins Shares, and WS/48 those seasons, while winning 2 MVPs and going to the Finals twice, losing narrowly to the Showtime Lakers (a team I'm sure we can agree was no joke).

Now I'm not saying those years were better, but they were certainly within striking distance of Bron's, and when you extend the arbitrary measuring stick to 3 years it gets even closer.

A- I am widely known as not using, or putting weight in defensive win shares, or defensive ratings, which is why I really factor in offensive win shares, and defensive metrics/eye test/accolades. Not when there are other metrics now.
B- When you lay the 2 year criteria as such:
1st in PER
1st in win shares
1st in WS/48
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Finals MVP
NBA Championship

you narrow the list down to 2 players. Now, there are a handful of players that are just under that minimum criteria line, Bird being one of them with Shaq, Magic, Jabbar, etc.

bucketss
07-16-2013, 04:23 PM
:laugh:

Stupidest joke I've seen on PSD yet! I expect nothing less just like your "What does a running up trophy look like" :rolleyes:

lol this kid follows me everywhere to express his irrational hate for another man, lol dude get a grip, still using those smileys it looks like.

Bostonjorge
07-16-2013, 04:31 PM
Kobe 2 different occasions he won back to back titles. In 2001 he went 15 -1 in the playoffs somthing lebron never even came close to doing. Kobe still has a number of accomplishments that lebron or any other player have yet to accomplish.

bucketss
07-16-2013, 04:33 PM
Kobe 2 different occasions he won back to back titles. In 2001 he went 15 -1 in the playoffs somthing lebron never even came close to doing. Kobe still has a number of accomplishments that lebron or any other player have yet to accomplish.

we're talking about two year stretches, kobe has never won finals mvp, reg season mvp, nba championship,gold medal, combined also with the statistical dominance all in a two year stretch,

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 04:37 PM
Kobe 2 different occasions he won back to back titles. In 2001 he went 15 -1 in the playoffs somthing lebron never even came close to doing. Kobe still has a number of accomplishments that lebron or any other player have yet to accomplish.

Did he win MVP's both years? Did he lead the league in every single efficiency measure possible? Kobe has never once led the league in PER, Win shares, or WS/48. Only once has he won an MVP, and neither Final MVP he won came in the same year as a regular season MVP.

So, how does Kobe even sniff this conversation again?

JerseyPalahniuk
07-16-2013, 04:39 PM
All these posters just listing names: WHAT SEASONS?

All these posters just posting stats: Did they win the Season MVP AND the championship that year?

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 04:42 PM
All these posters just listing names: WHAT SEASONS?

All these posters just posting stats: Did they win the Season MVP AND the championship that year?

the problem is I already did the research, and there are only 2 players that have put together back to back seasons like this.

leader in :
PER
WS
WS/48

Basically, THE most efficient and impactful player in the NBA

must have won MVP
must make 1st team all NBA
must make 1st team all Defense

NBA Championship
Finals MVP

LeBron and Jordan are the only two.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-16-2013, 04:47 PM
the problem is I already did the research, and there are only 2 players that have put together back to back seasons like this.

leader in :
PER
WS
WS/48

Basically, THE most efficient and impactful player in the NBA

must have won MVP
must make 1st team all NBA
must make 1st team all Defense

NBA Championship
Finals MVP

LeBron and Jordan are the only two.

damn. Can't say I'm THAT surprised. What about if you remove the championship criteria? Obviously a huge factor, but just curious on players with 1st team All NBA and 1st team all defense and MVP for one of the 2 seasons. That's a rare breed. Kobe's probably done that once but his defensive teams are questionable. Wondering about pre-2000 players though.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 05:04 PM
damn. Can't say I'm THAT surprised. What about if you remove the championship criteria? Obviously a huge factor, but just curious on players with 1st team All NBA and 1st team all defense and MVP for one of the 2 seasons. That's a rare breed. Kobe's probably done that once but his defensive teams are questionable. Wondering about pre-2000 players though.

Kobe is out because of his MVP coming in a non-championship year, and the fact that he has never led the league in PER, WS, or WS/48. Not one of them in a single season, let alone all three at once. Kobe's all time greatness comes from his longevity, he doesn't have the peak or individual years 10-15 other players have, and that might be a generous number I am giving him (I still have him top 10 for anyone who views that as me "hating").

Jordan is the only other that fits all that criteria.

Jabbar 70-71, 71-72
Bird 84-85, 85-86
Duncan 01-02, 02-03
Magic 85-86, 86-87
Wilt 65-66, 66-67
Shaq 99-00, 00-01
Moses 81-82, 82-82
Hakeem 92-93, 93-94

they are all just under the LeBron/Jordan 2 year run to me.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 05:06 PM
even Oscar and Barkley put together mean 2 year stretches, but there lack of team success kills them from the ones I listed above.

SportsFanatic10
07-16-2013, 05:07 PM
MVP is a joke of an award...

its funny how kobe fans will say that since he only has 1, but when it comes to all defensive teams and 1st all nba teams those are legit lol.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 05:08 PM
its funny how kobe fans will say that since he only has 1, but when it comes to all defensive teams and 1st all nba teams those are legit lol.

do you not understand trolls and fanboys yet? Only measures that show their player in a positive light are worthy of being accepted. I thought that was understood? Why bother replying?

ztilzer31
07-16-2013, 05:11 PM
Another circle jerk thread.

So you just came to blow your load and go? What a dick.

king4day
07-16-2013, 05:12 PM
Nash delivered a 30+ win team into a 60+ win team. Then delivered a team with no stars into a 54 win team. Both years winning MVP. Back to back WCF appearances. Yes, no titles, but when you aren't considered a top 10 player in the league (as opposed to best in the world), it has to count for something.

I won't get into the 'who is better' argument, but scenarios are different. Considering how this years finals game 6 was (Lebron wasn't the reason Duncan was on the bench or Leonard missed a FT), I sense the thread topic wouldn't exist if a FT or rebound was made.

nickdymez
07-16-2013, 05:14 PM
lol@ my response getting deleted, yet I responded to a bait post.

nickdymez
07-16-2013, 05:15 PM
its funny how kobe fans will say that since he only has 1, but when it comes to all defensive teams and 1st all nba teams those are legit lol.

I dont care about Kobe in this thread man. You Lebron fans are pathetic sometimes. Since i dont think MVP is legit, its because of Kobe?

nickdymez
07-16-2013, 05:16 PM
do you not understand trolls and fanboys yet? Only measures that show their player in a positive light are worthy of being accepted. I thought that was understood? Why bother replying?

Clearly a bait post. Lets see if he gets banned or warned. Of course not.. ********

bucketss
07-16-2013, 05:25 PM
Clearly a bait post. Lets see if he gets banned or warned. Of course not.. ********

stop derailing the thread bro.

Twins Fanatic
07-16-2013, 05:33 PM
Lol, Laker fans hating on LeBron, but then suggesting that he'll sign with the Lakers in 2014.

DR_1
07-16-2013, 05:59 PM
Pretty much anyone who has won 2 titles? Come on OP.

bucketss
07-16-2013, 06:38 PM
Pretty much anyone who has won 2 titles? Come on OP.

so i guess adam morrison and lebron were equals

JerseyPalahniuk
07-16-2013, 06:46 PM
I dont care about Kobe in this thread man. You Lebron fans are pathetic sometimes. Since i dont think MVP is legit, its because of Kobe?

... You realize you couldve said the same thing IF you provided ANY reasoning at all? You can't just say something like "MVP isn't legit" just to de-rail this thread. Please provide at least a few sentences of reasoning.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-16-2013, 06:47 PM
Kobe is out because of his MVP coming in a non-championship year, and the fact that he has never led the league in PER, WS, or WS/48. Not one of them in a single season, let alone all three at once. Kobe's all time greatness comes from his longevity, he doesn't have the peak or individual years 10-15 other players have, and that might be a generous number I am giving him (I still have him top 10 for anyone who views that as me "hating").

Jordan is the only other that fits all that criteria.

Jabbar 70-71, 71-72
Bird 84-85, 85-86
Duncan 01-02, 02-03
Magic 85-86, 86-87
Wilt 65-66, 66-67
Shaq 99-00, 00-01
Moses 81-82, 82-82
Hakeem 92-93, 93-94

they are all just under the LeBron/Jordan 2 year run to me.

Thanks for that list. Exactly what I wanted to see. Especially which years of Moses were the most dominant. I'll look into them.

Munkeysuit
07-16-2013, 07:42 PM
Lebron had the greatest 2 years the NBA has ever witnessed.
Lebron just is at the top of damn near every category! PLUS he's winning.
The guy is amazing and very deserving of everything he has achieved, after all he's been through, dude still faces so much scrutiny and criticism...give the dude his due already.

kblo247
07-16-2013, 08:01 PM
Kobe took a fiba tourney, MVP, gold medal, b2b championship and finals MVP

kblo247
07-16-2013, 08:12 PM
its funny how kobe fans will say that since he only has 1, but when it comes to all defensive teams and 1st all nba teams those are legit lol.

Shaq has 1. You telling me kobe and Shaq weren't penalized when Nash has 2?

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 08:23 PM
Kobe took a fiba tourney, MVP, gold medal, b2b championship and finals MVP

Bron won a gold medal, 2 MVP's, back to back championships and finals MVP's, and led the NBA in every possible efficiency metric (of which Kobe has never led one of them).

Win

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 08:24 PM
Shaq has 1. You telling me kobe and Shaq weren't penalized when Nash has 2?

awards and accolades are what they are. They can't be changed. LeBron has 4. Nothing anyone can do about it. It only adds to his all time ranking.

SportsFanatic10
07-16-2013, 08:25 PM
Shaq has 1. You telling me kobe and Shaq weren't penalized when Nash has 2?

i never said that i think mvp awards are always given to the right guy. i disagreed with rose getting his for instance. but what i did say is many kobe fans agree that mvp's are "a joke" but then they think all kobe's 1st team defense and all nba team awards are legit as well. can't have it both ways is what my point is.

Odominator
07-16-2013, 08:44 PM
Pretty cool thread. Lebron had an awesome 2 seasons. you know whats also even better? the fact that he is playing alongside Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-16-2013, 08:54 PM
Pretty cool thread. Lebron had an awesome 2 seasons. you know whats also even better? the fact that he is playing alongside Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade.

What great insight to the discussion. Had no idea man. Good point

nickdymez
07-16-2013, 09:20 PM
There is a clearly biased mod in this thread. What a joke. Its also a joke that all these Lebron Love threads are made and its ok because THERE IS A BIASED MOD IN HERE!!!

beliges
07-16-2013, 09:26 PM
Eh. There are plenty of great players who have had just as good as a two year stretch. I dont think it was much of a surprise the Heat won 2 titles back to back with that roster. Lebron put them over the edge clearly and was excellent but even he admittedly said he wanted to play alongside Wade and Bosh to make winning a title easier. But, i would say that players like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Hakeem, Bird all have had just as significant two year stretches.

like who? Seriously.

Well I mentioned them. Shaq, Magic, Hakeem, Kobe just to name a few. He had an incredible stretch but to say its something never been done before is just plain reaching.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 10:14 PM
Well I mentioned them. Shaq, Magic, Hakeem, Kobe just to name a few. He had an incredible stretch but to say its something never been done before is just plain reaching.

I belive I addressed them. Its only been done my Michael. Flip back 1-2 pages for my reasoning.

Also, as I showed, Kobe is not in this conversation. At all.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 10:15 PM
There is a clearly biased mod in this thread. What a joke. Its also a joke that all these Lebron Love threads are made and its ok because THERE IS A BIASED MOD IN HERE!!!

report it then. Your agenda has become crystal clear.

Delrayhc
07-16-2013, 10:34 PM
There is a clearly biased mod in this thread. What a joke. Its also a joke that all these Lebron Love threads are made and its ok because THERE IS A BIASED MOD IN HERE!!!

Walgreens and Right Aid have a sale on Kleenex , buy one get one free.

DR_1
07-16-2013, 10:36 PM
report it then. Your agenda has become crystal clear.

Dude he's right on you are one of the most biased guys I've ever seen :laugh2:

DR_1
07-16-2013, 10:37 PM
so i guess adam morrison and lebron were equals

:laugh2: Well rings don't lie

BRADfromOZ
07-16-2013, 10:59 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html
My thoughts exactly. 11 rings in 13 seasons is never ever going to be beaten.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 11:08 PM
Pretty cool thread. Lebron had an awesome 2 seasons. you know whats also even better? the fact that he is playing alongside Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade.

point?

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 11:09 PM
Dude he's right on you are one of the most biased guys I've ever seen :laugh2:

prove it

DR_1
07-16-2013, 11:20 PM
prove it
You heavily favor the Timberwolves in you posts, and you also never close down the many idiotic threads the Heat fans make, but the ones complaining about the Heat get shut down immediately :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 11:23 PM
You heavily favor the Timberwolves in you posts, and you also never close down the many idiotic threads the Heat fans make, but the ones complaining about the Heat get shut down immediately :facepalm:

Again, prove it. I rarely even moderate this site anymore.


I always love how my team comes into play haha.

Bostonjorge
07-17-2013, 12:42 AM
So kobe going 15 - 1 in the playoffs the greatest playoff feat EVER. Winning back to back tiles on his way to a tree peat.
Or
His back to back championships with back to back finals MVP's and all star MVP with gold medal.

This don't make the list at all? Lebron had his MVP's but what about the other players that are on the list what puts them over kobe.

More-Than-Most
07-17-2013, 12:51 AM
Only Jordan. With all the accomplishments comes with those statistics as well and that is something Kobe cant touch on James.

ArmLaker
07-17-2013, 01:04 AM
So kobe going 15 - 1 in the playoffs the greatest playoff feat EVER. Winning back to back tiles on his way to a tree peat.
Or
His back to back championships with back to back finals MVP's and all star MVP with gold medal.

This don't make the list at all? Lebron had his MVP's but what about the other players that are on the list what puts them over kobe.

Kobe plays for the Lakers. That alone discredits most if not anything he has accomplished.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 01:08 AM
There is a clearly biased mod in this thread. What a joke. Its also a joke that all these Lebron Love threads are made and its ok because THERE IS A BIASED MOD IN HERE!!!

do you see kobe love threads deleted? no, its not our fault you kobe fans would rather diss lebron than praise kobe smh. theres nothing wrong with making threads to praise the king i don't see why you're so butt hurt, i mean some kid made a kobe thread talkng about how much a boss kobe was for shooting free throws after getting injured. that thread made me nauseous.

Bostonjorge
07-17-2013, 01:09 AM
Duncan, mosses, Kareem, magic and bird all lose to kobe because They don't have back to back championship with back to back finals MVP.

cahawk
07-17-2013, 05:30 AM
Lebron not only won but carried his teams and his stats were good in all categories.

Quinnsanity
07-17-2013, 06:29 AM
You can't judge MJ on MVPs because realistically he should've won every year from '88 through '98 except the baseball years. He didn't strictly because of voter fatigue. That's why LeBron lost to Rose in 2011. I'll take MJ's '91-'92, I don't give two ***** about a 27 game winning streak. It's impressive but ultimately meaningless.

Quinnsanity
07-17-2013, 06:31 AM
Side note, Kobe lovers, you're wrong to compare Kobe's peak to LeBron's. LeBron's is significantly better. Don't waste your time, your argument should be about longevity, heart and rings. Don't make the asinine claim that Kobe was EVER better than LeBron is now because he was never even in this stratosphere.

kblo247
07-17-2013, 07:02 AM
i never said that i think mvp awards are always given to the right guy. i disagreed with rose getting his for instance. but what i did say is many kobe fans agree that mvp's are "a joke" but then they think all kobe's 1st team defense and all nba team awards are legit as well. can't have it both ways is what my point is.

The argument is the coaches vote for one and the media votes the other one. Kobe and Shaq by all means should have more than 2 Mvps between them. They werent media darlings. Bron experienced a media onslaught after the decision but he was more loved than those 2 before it outside Skip Bayless harping on him and his antics and failures. Its like Nash getting 2 Mvps, which is also laughable in context because it puts his career in a horrible category right now (possibly retiring as the only MVP to never play a finals game)

Not denying Bron had a great year and stretch, but to me I still find the hardest thing to stomach about the MVP is that Shaq and Kobe were penalized for being with one another, that was the justification. Well that and both being dicks lol.

kblo247
07-17-2013, 07:06 AM
Bron won a gold medal, 2 MVP's, back to back championships and finals MVP's, and led the NBA in every possible efficiency metric (of which Kobe has never led one of them).

Win

That's like the metric of win shares that make you claim Love as a superstar. And denounce Melo to all star one dimensional tier. How them playoffs and records working out btw between the two? They are meaningless without context and the context is delivering the goods .... titles, winning records, medals, stats

I value actual tangible Ws in a win column and accolades. A fiba gold, mvp, WC championship, gold medal , and b2b championship with b2b finals MVP with the youngest team in twenty years speaks for itself especially when you add in Kobe's age and minutes played during said run. He was all nba during same said run with all star appearances and all defensive selections.

Brons can be more impressive not touching that or arguing, but by every means Kobe delivered just as much with tangible results.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:24 AM
Side note, Kobe lovers, you're wrong to compare Kobe's peak to LeBron's. LeBron's is significantly better. Don't waste your time, your argument should be about longevity, heart and rings. Don't make the asinine claim that Kobe was EVER better than LeBron is now because he was never even in this stratosphere.

So you think Lebron could beat Kobe one on one?

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:31 AM
So now we are talking about two year stretches?!? Come on OP, surely you can find a better way to praise your idol than this. Pretty low...even for you guys.

So win shares vs. mostly inferior competition in the east with one of the best supporting casts of all time is more impressive than leading a team to 1st place in the far more competitive west two years in a row when the second best player on your team didn't even crack the top ten?

Why don't we compare to how a prime Kobe did against a younger better Spurs team in the 2008 WCF to how a prime Lebron did against an old Spurs team with more help from a better supporting cast in the 2013 finals.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:34 AM
Offensively Lebron doesn't hold a candle to Kobe. When Lebron cracks 60 points in a game come talk to me.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:41 AM
Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.

Delrayhc
07-17-2013, 08:12 AM
Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.


You must dream all night about your little buddy and you cant wait to wake up just so you can praise him. Why dont you give the Spurs with one of the greatest players ever along with 2 hall of fame players some credit. That is a great team not a broken team , older yes but not broken.

Delrayhc
07-17-2013, 08:27 AM
So now we are talking about two year stretches?!? Come on OP, surely you can find a better way to praise your idol than this. Pretty low...even for you guys.

So win shares vs. mostly inferior competition in the east with one of the best supporting casts of all time is more impressive than leading a team to 1st place in the far more competitive west two years in a row when the second best player on your team didn't even crack the top ten?

Why don't we compare to how a prime Kobe did against a younger better Spurs team in the 2008 WCF to how a prime Lebron did against an old Spurs team with more help from a better supporting cast in the 2013 finals.

Your a hypocrite. You talk about the op praising lebron as an idol when you sit there and live and devote your whole life to your little buddy. The op looks like a Houston fan that mentioned Lebrons past 2 seasons to him were 2 of the best that hes seen other than Jordans 91-92 stretch. It really hurts your feelings when Lebron gets props and your little buddy doesnt , why is that? Its a really sick obsession that you have with your little buddy and Lebron. 2 extreme obsessions from opposite sides of the spectrum.

Jesse2272
07-17-2013, 08:38 AM
I was at game 6, I didnt even realize LBJ had a triple double until the end, hes highly efficient obviously and amazing to watch him live, amazing player period, he just took over in the 4th/overtime

but hey hes really not clutch it was a fluke he just posts empty stats

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 08:45 AM
That's like the metric of win shares that make you claim Love as a superstar. And denounce Melo to all star one dimensional tier. How them playoffs and records working out btw between the two? They are meaningless without context and the context is delivering the goods .... titles, winning records, medals, stats

I value actual tangible Ws in a win column and accolades. A fiba gold, mvp, WC championship, gold medal , and b2b championship with b2b finals MVP with the youngest team in twenty years speaks for itself especially when you add in Kobe's age and minutes played during said run. He was all nba during same said run with all star appearances and all defensive selections.

Brons can be more impressive not touching that or arguing, but by every means Kobe delivered just as much with tangible results.

no one single stat makes a player. But when every stat in the universe points to dominance, it paints a pretty sweet picture.

Slug3
07-17-2013, 09:18 AM
MVP is a joke of an award...

I'm positive all Kobe fans will say this as he only has one.

Slug3
07-17-2013, 09:20 AM
Offensively Lebron doesn't hold a candle to Kobe. When Lebron cracks 60 points in a game come talk to me.

There is more to just scoring in an offensive game. I mean assist wise and efficiency wise Lebron wipes the floor with Kobe. I'm positive is Lebron wanted to shoot it 30+ times a game he could rack up a lot of points.

nickdymez
07-17-2013, 10:04 AM
report it then. Your agenda has become crystal clear.

Get out of here with this agenda ****. Bottom line, this is a Lebron loving thread. Point blank. I pointed that out. You know it and other posters know it. Nothing will happen because you're in here adding to the love. No point in reporting anything that you do. Keep up the good work..

ATX
07-17-2013, 10:05 AM
There is more to just scoring in an offensive game. I mean assist wise and efficiency wise Lebron wipes the floor with Kobe. I'm positive is Lebron wanted to shoot it 30+ times a game he could rack up a lot of points.

Yes, and LeBron isn't known as a selfish player as Kobe is. Kobe shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread. Not that I wouldn't expect Amos1er to run crying to this debate as he'll stoop to anything to discredit LeBron. As has been pointed out. For James in the last two years. Gold Medal, 2 league MVP's, 2 Championships, and 2 Finals MVP's to go along with career highs in in overall and three point shooting percentages. He is also coming off the 3rd highest PER in league history. I might also mention he led his team to a 27 game winning streak (2nd longest in league history), and a Heat franchise record 66 wins, and setting a career high in rebounds. Amos1er has what argument for Kobe again...lmao.

ghettosean
07-17-2013, 10:27 AM
There is a clearly biased mod in this thread. What a joke. Its also a joke that all these Lebron Love threads are made and its ok because THERE IS A BIASED MOD IN HERE!!!


Dude he's right on you are one of the most biased guys I've ever seen :laugh2:


I agree with both... Public support is mounting Hawkeye15! Not that it will do anything but you are clearly bias!

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 10:35 AM
I agree with both... Public support is mounting Hawkeye15! Not that it will do anything but you are clearly bias!

look who you are co-signing with dude.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 10:37 AM
Offensively Lebron doesn't hold a candle to Kobe. When Lebron cracks 60 points in a game come talk to me.

Funny how every single stat points to the opposite of your statement. LeBron has never been a volume scorer, that isn't his game. Yet he still averages 27 a night. While doing everything else that encompasses "offense".

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 10:39 AM
Yes, and LeBron isn't known as a selfish player as Kobe is. Kobe shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread. Not that I wouldn't expect Amos1er to run crying to this debate as he'll stoop to anything to discredit LeBron. As has been pointed out. For James in the last two years. Gold Medal, 2 league MVP's, 2 Championships, and 2 Finals MVP's to go along with career highs in in overall and three point shooting percentages. He is also coming off the 3rd highest PER in league history. I might also mention he led his team to a 27 game winning streak (2nd longest in league history), and a Heat franchise record 66 wins, and setting a career high in rebounds. Amos1er has what argument for Kobe again...lmao.

as I have stated now multiple times in this thread:

2 years in a row:
led the league in PER
led the league in Win shares
led the league in WS/48
1st team all NBA
1st team all Defense
MVP
Championship
Finals MVP

and won a gold medal

never been done. If we ditch the gold medal, Michael Jordan is the only other player with a matching 2 year run in history.

I also listed a handful of players who are just below these achievements. Kobe is not on that list.

ATX
07-17-2013, 10:48 AM
as I have stated now multiple times in this thread:

2 years in a row:
led the league in PER
led the league in Win shares
led the league in WS/48
1st team all NBA
1st team all Defense
MVP
Championship
Finals MVP

and won a gold medal

never been done. If we ditch the gold medal, Michael Jordan is the only other player with a matching 2 year run in history.

I also listed a handful of players who are just below these achievements. Kobe is not on that list.

I hear you loud and clear. It's been nothing short of amazing to witness. It really is greatness.

ghettosean
07-17-2013, 10:50 AM
double post

ghettosean
07-17-2013, 10:50 AM
look who you are co-signing with dude.


Honestly I wish I kept some of your posts from the past but you have not only nuthugged him in the past but you have denouced anyone who speaks ill of him. I'll keep watch and report it next time and see if it does anything but I doubt anything comes of it. I mean we are now opening threads to talk about 2 year time spans give me a break and he won a championship 2 years in a row when he was expected to win 2 years in a row. Many fans were even depressed because they knew the heat would win with the stacked team Lebron had this thread is utter nonsense.

Just looking at championships we can get all the heat fans calling it an accomplishment but really Lebron/The Heat just met expectations (with the 1st year being a dissapointment).

TheLegend
07-17-2013, 11:07 AM
Yes, and LeBron isn't known as a selfish player as Kobe is. Kobe shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread. Not that I wouldn't expect Amos1er to run crying to this debate as he'll stoop to anything to discredit LeBron. As has been pointed out. For James in the last two years. Gold Medal, 2 league MVP's, 2 Championships, and 2 Finals MVP's to go along with career highs in in overall and three point shooting percentages. He is also coming off the 3rd highest PER in league history. I might also mention he led his team to a 27 game winning streak (2nd longest in league history), and a Heat franchise record 66 wins, and setting a career high in rebounds. Amos1er has what argument for Kobe again...lmao.

And still, he was just one spurs defensive rebound away from being looked at as a complete failure. If the spurs get a rebound at the end of game 6 this thread wouldn't even exist. Lebron would be 1-3 in the finals and the heat 1-2. So Calm down. The heat are not extraordinary like they SHOULD have been. They lost a championship, won one, then got VERY lucky and barely won another. Now you got gullible fans like yourself praising them like they are Jordan's bulls(a team whom never lucked into a ship). Please. They should've dominated when u look at their team. But they had trouble with the Pacers and Spurs, other championships teams from the past like Jordan's Bulls or Shaq/Kobe Lakers would have destroyed these pacers and spurs.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 11:34 AM
And still, he was just one spurs defensive rebound away from being looked at as a complete failure. If the spurs get a rebound at the end of game 6 this thread wouldn't even exist. Lebron would be 1-3 in the finals and the heat 1-2. So Calm down. The heat are not extraordinary like they SHOULD have been. They lost a championship, won one, then got VERY lucky and barely won another. Now you got gullible fans like yourself praising them like they are Jordan's bulls(a team whom never lucked into a ship). Please. They should've dominated when u look at their team. But they had trouble with the Pacers and Spurs, other championships teams from the past like Jordan's Bulls or Shaq/Kobe Lakers would have destroyed these pacers and spurs.

Well, anyone who has followed sports for a long time knows the line between success and failure many times is very thin.

boboo73
07-17-2013, 11:36 AM
we're talking about two year stretches, kobe has never won finals mvp, reg season mvp, nba championship,gold medal, combined also with the statistical dominance all in a two year stretch,

Funny how you again come back to the gold medal. You cut off all candidates prior to 1988 then. Also you throw out vague terms like statistical dominance and somehow expect people to pull information to meet your set vague criteria.

The bottom line is you created this thread solely to jerk off LBJ.

boboo73
07-17-2013, 11:46 AM
You can't judge MJ on MVPs because realistically he should've won every year from '88 through '98 except the baseball years. He didn't strictly because of voter fatigue. That's why LeBron lost to Rose in 2011. I'll take MJ's '91-'92, I don't give two ***** about a 27 game winning streak. It's impressive but ultimately meaningless.

Well said. That sums it up.

ghettosean
07-17-2013, 12:30 PM
Another circle jerk thread.



Funny how you again come back to the gold medal. You cut off all candidates prior to 1988 then. Also you throw out vague terms like statistical dominance and somehow expect people to pull information to meet your set vague criteria.

The bottom line is you created this thread solely to jerk off LBJ.

Like the top quote says and validates what you are saying yes this is another circle jerk thread. Lebron was expected to win all 3 years he had this team and was even expected to be the bulls regular season record with how stacked there team is...

And now that this big 3 who has been expected to win for the last 2 seasons (truly 3) we now have a thread saying --> "Who else has delievered as much in 2 years as Lebron". As if Ray Allen wasn't the biggest part of delievering the title this year... SHM!

Honestly these type of threads are getting beyond pathetic! They met expectations end of story.

NYJ - NYY
07-17-2013, 12:46 PM
cant people just enjoy lebrons game? like **** dudes... dude is doing things that only 1 other has accomplished and i believe bron will be goat when all is said and done... just enjoy it while its going on... stop trying to downplay it... im a knicks fan, hate bron, wades my dude...but i gotta respect my mans game... as well as everyone else should... enjoy the ****in moment man, life is too short and this talent too great to harp and ***** and moan about whos better

SportsFanatic10
07-17-2013, 01:02 PM
lol the haters are rearing their ugly heads again. out in full force trying to discredit something that cannot be discredited, keep reaching...

nickdymez
07-17-2013, 01:21 PM
lol the haters are rearing their ugly heads again. out in full force trying to discredit something that cannot be discredited, keep reaching...

Honestly thats whats wrong with this forum. The NBA in particular. This thread belongs in the Heat forum. Of course your gonna get arguments and derailments from people who aren't fans of Lebron like Heat fans are. Then Heat fans make it worse because they condescend when someone disagrees. The problem I have with Hawkeye is that he is a mod and all he does is add fuel to the fire. He baits and trolls just as much as anyone else. Its a joke. You guys want to praise Lebron? Fine praise him, but do it in your forum or at least make a reasonable thread.

smith&wesson
07-17-2013, 01:24 PM
this is why lebron is the greatest in the world and its not even debatable. bout time psd shows the guy some respect.

STL Don
07-17-2013, 01:27 PM
Shaq and Kobe.

They both won 3 straight championships and made 4 appearances all together.

Kobe than proceeded to win 2 more in 3 straight years playing the Celtics twice and the Magic third.

Not saying they were able to accomplish more, however, its pretty darn close.

Lbj might be the best player in todays game but lets not forget how Kobe capped off a miraculous era leading his Lakers to 2 more championships right at the end of his 'prime'.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 01:30 PM
Shaq and Kobe.

They both won 3 straight championships and made 4 appearances all together.

Kobe than proceeded to win 2 more in 3 straight years playing the Celtics twice and the Magic third.

Not saying they were able to accomplish more, however, its pretty darn close.

Lbj might be the best player in todays game but lets not forget how Kobe capped off a miraculous era leading his Lakers to 2 more championships right at the end of his 'prime'.

again, neither did this in a 2 year span, back to back

Led the league in PER, WS, WS/48 (meaning clearly the most efficient superstar, and the most impactful)
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Championship
Finals MVP

justinnum1
07-17-2013, 01:42 PM
No one other than jordan can hold a candle to lebrons accomplishments over the past 2 years.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 01:45 PM
to those throwing names other than Jordan at this, what has any other player done that LeBron didn't the past 2 years? Outside of trying to use a single stat like PPG for example, or individual game. At the end of the day, nobody outside MJ has accomplished, as a whole, what LeBron did the last 2 years.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 02:07 PM
Get out of here with this agenda ****. Bottom line, this is a Lebron loving thread. Point blank. I pointed that out. You know it and other posters know it. Nothing will happen because you're in here adding to the love. No point in reporting anything that you do. Keep up the good work..

do lebron loving threads violate any rules of this forum? idk why it bothers you, i bet if you weren't a kobe fan this thread wouldn't bother you.

So now we are talking about two year stretches?!? Come on OP, surely you can find a better way to praise your idol than this. Pretty low...even for you guys.

So win shares vs. mostly inferior competition in the east with one of the best supporting casts of all time is more impressive than leading a team to 1st place in the far more competitive west two years in a row when the second best player on your team didn't even crack the top ten?

Why don't we compare to how a prime Kobe did against a younger better Spurs team in the 2008 WCF to how a prime Lebron did against an old Spurs team with more help from a better supporting cast in the 2013 finals.

more help :laugh: do you see anyone close to a prime shaq on this heat team?


Offensively Lebron doesn't hold a candle to Kobe. When Lebron cracks 60 points in a game come talk to me.

you do know 'offense is more than just putting the ball in the hoop, and looking "cool" right?

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 02:08 PM
guys, if you have nothing positive to add to the discussion, just don't post.

Simple

More-Than-Most
07-17-2013, 02:18 PM
as I have stated now multiple times in this thread:

2 years in a row:
led the league in PER
led the league in Win shares
led the league in WS/48
1st team all NBA
1st team all Defense
MVP
Championship
Finals MVP

and won a gold medal

never been done. If we ditch the gold medal, Michael Jordan is the only other player with a matching 2 year run in history.

I also listed a handful of players who are just below these achievements. Kobe is not on that list.

He also could have won the defensive player of the year award

naps
07-17-2013, 02:19 PM
Shut up, stop bashing everyone who's talking about Kobe.

I didn't bash anyone. I call out Kobephiles when they mention him everywhere even he doesn't fit. Tell me how he fits since you are defending him. Can you?

Chronz
07-17-2013, 02:19 PM
Sorry if I missed another bash fest, really not sure whats been discussed past page 1 but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that way. Still, assuming the thread topic still matters...

Jerry West had arguably the greatest 2-3 year stretch of any perimeter player not named MJ.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 02:21 PM
Sorry if I missed another bash fest, really not sure whats been discussed past page 1 but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that way. Still, assuming the thread topic still matters...

Jerry West had arguably the greatest 2-3 year stretch of any perimeter player not named MJ.

His accolades and awards just don't hold up however. Though, did they even have all the awards they have now in the early to mid 60's, when he was at his peak?

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 02:24 PM
Kobe is out because of his MVP coming in a non-championship year, and the fact that he has never led the league in PER, WS, or WS/48. Not one of them in a single season, let alone all three at once. Kobe's all time greatness comes from his longevity, he doesn't have the peak or individual years 10-15 other players have, and that might be a generous number I am giving him (I still have him top 10 for anyone who views that as me "hating").

Jordan is the only other that fits all that criteria.

Jabbar 70-71, 71-72
Bird 84-85, 85-86
Duncan 01-02, 02-03
Magic 85-86, 86-87
Wilt 65-66, 66-67
Shaq 99-00, 00-01
Moses 81-82, 82-82
Hakeem 92-93, 93-94

they are all just under the LeBron/Jordan 2 year run to me.

Chronz, here is what I posted yesterday. Keep in mind, as I have said, LeBron has done the following for 2 straight years:

League leader in PER, WS, WS/48
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Championship
Finals MVP

thoughts?

Greet
07-17-2013, 02:32 PM
Chronz, here is what I posted yesterday. Keep in mind, as I have said, LeBron has done the following for 2 straight years:

League leader in PER, WS, WS/48
1st team all NBA
1st team all defense
MVP
Championship
Finals MVP

thoughts?

I agree with you. In the NBA now you have two types of fans, you have the fans that look at the statistics (PER, WS, WS/48 etc.) and you have the fans that look at the accolades (MVP, Championships, etc.) Lebron James these past two years has dominated in both of those categories, probably like no other player ever.

ztilzer31
07-17-2013, 02:40 PM
My question is what if LBJ puts up similar numbers this year? I mean he could in all possibilities have another 3 or 4 of these monster seasons in a row.... I mean this last season was easily his best season ever in the NBA, and every time we think LBJ can't get any better he adds something else to his game...

I guess that's the most frustrating thing when you go into these threads and just see LBJ hate. Your hate is making you miss some of the most amazing basketball in NBA history... Just because of the decision...Makes me sad :(.

Delrayhc
07-17-2013, 03:14 PM
My question is what if LBJ puts up similar numbers this year? I mean he could in all possibilities have another 3 or 4 of these monster seasons in a row.... I mean this last season was easily his best season ever in the NBA, and every time we think LBJ can't get any better he adds something else to his game...

I guess that's the most frustrating thing when you go into these threads and just see LBJ hate. Your hate is making you miss some of the most amazing basketball in NBA history... Just because of the decision...Makes me sad :(.


NBA fans > fans of only one player

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 03:20 PM
I agree with you. In the NBA now you have two types of fans, you have the fans that look at the statistics (PER, WS, WS/48 etc.) and you have the fans that look at the accolades (MVP, Championships, etc.) Lebron James these past two years has dominated in both of those categories, probably like no other player ever.

Jordan was the only other one I could find. The 8 guys I listed in the post were just below that because they don't meet all that criteria of statistical dominance, and individual/team awards.

Quinnsanity
07-17-2013, 03:22 PM
You know what the best part about the moronic "Kobe is better than LeBron" argument is? Literally the ONLY aspect of basketball in which Kobe has an argument as a better player than LeBron is as a scorer, yet LeBron has scored 2.1 more points per game in his career (27.6 to 25.5) than Kobe AND has made 3.6% more of his shots (49 FG% to 45.4%). There is not an argument for peak Kobe being better than peak LeBron. It does not exist. LeBron is a SUBSTANTIALLY better passer, rebounder, defender (don't give me this BS "Kobe made all defensive team" nonsense, LeBron is a legendary perimeter defender, probably the best perimeter help defender in history besides Pippen and in that top tier overall with Pippen, Payton, Moncrief, Jordan, DJ and Cooper) and in some ways, scorer. What's you're argument if you think Kobe at his peak was better than LeBron? Clutch? Go look at the numbers, Kobe's clutch stats not so secretly suck and LeBron's are pretty secretly good. Look, I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe, he's a top-10 all time player. But he's NOT as good as LeBron and it's not close. I'm saying all of this despite the fact that I despise LeBron. He's THAT good.

Quinnsanity
07-17-2013, 03:34 PM
If we're talking peaks exclusively and only post-merger (it'd be impossible to really figure out how Wilt and Russell fit into this) here's how I'd break it down:

Tier 1: Jordan, LeBron

Tier 2: Bird, Kareem, Magic, Walton, Shaq

Tier 3: Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Moses

Tier 4: Barkley, Malone, Dr. J (easily could be tier 3 but his ABA peak is hard to quantify so I'm splitting the difference), Wade (underrated peak, look at his age 27-28 seasons, people forget just how good he was), David Robinson (another guy who gets underrated historically, at his peak he was as good as Barkley or Malone at theirs, just didn't have the matching personality).

Bernard has an argument if you ignore defense, Arvydas Sabonis probably ends up around Tier 4 or the non-existant Tier 5 if we knew just how good he really was in Europe, Pippen didn't really have a noticeable two-year spike to call a peak, ditto for Stockton (ageless) or Isiah (underwhelming statistically).

And for the record, the players in the tiers aren't in order.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 04:35 PM
If we're talking peaks exclusively and only post-merger (it'd be impossible to really figure out how Wilt and Russell fit into this) here's how I'd break it down:

Tier 1: Jordan, LeBron

Tier 2: Bird, Kareem, Magic, Walton, Shaq

Tier 3: Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Moses

Tier 4: Barkley, Malone, Dr. J (easily could be tier 3 but his ABA peak is hard to quantify so I'm splitting the difference), Wade (underrated peak, look at his age 27-28 seasons, people forget just how good he was), David Robinson (another guy who gets underrated historically, at his peak he was as good as Barkley or Malone at theirs, just didn't have the matching personality).

Bernard has an argument if you ignore defense, Arvydas Sabonis probably ends up around Tier 4 or the non-existant Tier 5 if we knew just how good he really was in Europe, Pippen didn't really have a noticeable two-year spike to call a peak, ditto for Stockton (ageless) or Isiah (underwhelming statistically).

And for the record, the players in the tiers aren't in order.

No matter how you dress up your tiers, you completely off base. To put Lebron in the same conversation as Jordan is blasphemous. Jordan never lost in the finals and never needed to form a super team consisting of a top five player and a top fifteen player along with 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three just to beat some of the weakest competition in NBA history in the east and some mediocre competition in the finals. All with questionable calls the whole way through. You are only as great as your competition and Lebron hasn't really had all that much compared to greats like Jordan and Kobe. Especially considering the super team he constructed when he went ring chasing.

Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013_finals.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008_WCF.html

What do you think about the difference in numbers that Kobe put up against younger better Spurs teams on road to success with weaker supporting casts than Lebron had?

2008 WCF

A prime Kobe with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron's 2013 Heat against a younger tougher Spurs team...

Kobe 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 90.9 FT%, 33.3 3PT%, 53.3 FG%. Most importantly...won the series in 5 games with his second best player in Gasol only contributing 13.2 ppg and his third option Odom only contributing 12.8 ppg.

2013 Finals

A prime Lebron vs. a much older Spurs and weaker Spurs team than Kobe played back in the 2008 WCF...

25.3 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 79.5 FT%, 35.3 3PT%, 44.7 FG%. Barely won by the skin of their teeth in 7 games. Lebron received more help all around from his supporting cast as well. His second option Wade contributed 19.6 ppg and his third option Bosh contributed 11.9 ppg. Both shot significantly better from the field as well. Wade 47.6 FG% and Bosh 46.2 FG% compared to Gasol 44.6 FG% and Odom 40.4 FG%. Clearly Lebron's big three are in a whole other universe that what Kobe had to work with.

In addition, his fourth and fifth options in Allen and Chalmers also produced more than Kobe's fourth and fifth options in Farmar and Radmanovic. Both Allen and Chalmers contributed double figure scoring. Allen with 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and from 3 and Chalmers with 10.6 ppg on 39% from the field, but 40.6% from 3. In 2008 Farmar (Kobe's fourth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 45.7% from the field and 41.7% from 3. Radmanovic (fifth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 63.3% from the field, but only 27.3% from 3. Clearly Kobe outperformed Lebron with far less help against a better version of the same team.

And please don't throw in Lebron's empty rebounding and assist numbers because as I said earlier, they are a product of the system he runs and the players he choses to surround himself with. In 2008 Kobe had two guys in Gasol and Odom who both averaged 9.6 rpg in the WCF. Thus there are less rebounds for Kobe to grab, but his team is better off clearly. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but thats mainly due to the fact that there are no real rebounders on his team and who cares anyways because the Heat are last in the NBA in rebounding. It's not too impressive when you can put up the best rebounding stats on a team that is last in the NBA...talk about not sacrificing personal glory for the good of the team. :rolleyes:

As for the assists, Kobe played in the triangle which is not assist friendly at all, but is better for winning games and getting all around passing from the team. Lebron plays a pg on offense which is more designed as a iso drive and kick to his many 3 point snippers. Pretty easy to rack up assists when you have 5 guys on your team who can shoot over 40% from three and the system is designed to boost your stats. A luxury Kobe or MJ never had. Lebron in the triangle would not be able to produce those kind of assist numbers...especially without his 3 point snippers.

There you have it, the proof is in the pudding. Kobe would have won the title that year and had six rings had he been lucky enough to face the Spurs in the finals like Lebron did. Unfortunately, he had to face a far better team in the Celtics. The likes of which Lebron has never faced. Sorry, but it's all about how you do against the top competition, not about how you pad your stats in the regular season against the weaker teams in the weakest conference of all time. Kobe clearly performed better when the stakes were up against the better competition. That is the true measure of greatness.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 04:41 PM
is amos1er trying to convince us or himself? lol again he is dedicating sig space to lebron, like i said before kobe fans are more concerned with bron than kobe.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 04:49 PM
amos1er;26701112

There you have it, the proof is in the pudding.

It's proof you choose to use for your opinion. At some point, you have to realize that the LeBron is better than Kobe movement shifted heavily about a month ago, even for the self admitted LeBron haters, and there is no stopping it at this point. Throwing out opinions as fact when its been noted that you are seriously biased when it comes to Kobe just doesn't work for anyone anymore.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 04:51 PM
You know what the best part about the moronic "Kobe is better than LeBron" argument is? Literally the ONLY aspect of basketball in which Kobe has an argument as a better player than LeBron is as a scorer, yet LeBron has scored 2.1 more points per game in his career (27.6 to 25.5) than Kobe AND has made 3.6% more of his shots (49 FG% to 45.4%). There is not an argument for peak Kobe being better than peak LeBron. It does not exist. LeBron is a SUBSTANTIALLY better passer, rebounder, defender (don't give me this BS "Kobe made all defensive team" nonsense, LeBron is a legendary perimeter defender, probably the best perimeter help defender in history besides Pippen and in that top tier overall with Pippen, Payton, Moncrief, Jordan, DJ and Cooper) and in some ways, scorer. What's you're argument if you think Kobe at his peak was better than LeBron? Clutch? Go look at the numbers, Kobe's clutch stats not so secretly suck and LeBron's are pretty secretly good. Look, I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe, he's a top-10 all time player. But he's NOT as good as LeBron and it's not close. I'm saying all of this despite the fact that I despise LeBron. He's THAT good.

The interesting thing is, all these arguments are a waste of time. 10 years from now, this will be a laughable topic.

Delrayhc
07-17-2013, 04:54 PM
is amos1er trying to convince us or himself? lol again he is dedicating sig space to lebron, like i said before kobe fans are more concerned with bron than kobe.

Hes been sitting there all day on his seat booster typing that huge post.

nickdymez
07-17-2013, 05:04 PM
No matter how you dress up your tiers, you completely off base. To put Lebron in the same conversation as Jordan is blasphemous. Jordan never lost in the finals and never needed to form a super team consisting of a top five player and a top fifteen player along with 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three just to beat some of the weakest competition in NBA history in the east and some mediocre competition in the finals. All with questionable calls the whole way through. You are only as great as your competition and Lebron hasn't really had all that much compared to greats like Jordan and Kobe. Especially considering the super team he constructed when he went ring chasing.

Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013_finals.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008_WCF.html

What do you think about the difference in numbers that Kobe put up against younger better Spurs teams on road to success with weaker supporting casts than Lebron had?

2008 WCF

A prime Kobe with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron's 2013 Heat against a younger tougher Spurs team...

Kobe 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 90.9 FT%, 33.3 3PT%, 53.3 FG%. Most importantly...won the series in 5 games with his second best player in Gasol only contributing 13.2 ppg and his third option Odom only contributing 12.8 ppg.

2013 Finals

A prime Lebron vs. a much older Spurs and weaker Spurs team than Kobe played back in the 2008 WCF...

25.3 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 79.5 FT%, 35.3 3PT%, 44.7 FG%. Barely won by the skin of their teeth in 7 games. Lebron received more help all around from his supporting cast as well. His second option Wade contributed 19.6 ppg and his third option Bosh contributed 11.9 ppg. Both shot significantly better from the field as well. Wade 47.6 FG% and Bosh 46.2 FG% compared to Gasol 44.6 FG% and Odom 40.4 FG%. Clearly Lebron's big three are in a whole other universe that what Kobe had to work with.

In addition, his fourth and fifth options in Allen and Chalmers also produced more than Kobe's fourth and fifth options in Farmar and Radmanovic. Both Allen and Chalmers contributed double figure scoring. Allen with 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and from 3 and Chalmers with 10.6 ppg on 39% from the field, but 40.6% from 3. In 2008 Farmar (Kobe's fourth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 45.7% from the field and 41.7% from 3. Radmanovic (fifth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 63.3% from the field, but only 27.3% from 3. Clearly Kobe outperformed Lebron with far less help against a better version of the same team.

And please don't throw in Lebron's empty rebounding and assist numbers because as I said earlier, they are a product of the system he runs and the players he choses to surround himself with. In 2008 Kobe had two guys in Gasol and Odom who both averaged 9.6 rpg in the WCF. Thus there are less rebounds for Kobe to grab, but his team is better off clearly. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but thats mainly due to the fact that there are no real rebounders on his team and who cares anyways because the Heat are last in the NBA in rebounding. It's not too impressive when you can put up the best rebounding stats on a team that is last in the NBA...talk about not sacrificing personal glory for the good of the team. :rolleyes:

As for the assists, Kobe played in the triangle which is not assist friendly at all, but is better for winning games and getting all around passing from the team. Lebron plays a pg on offense which is more designed as a iso drive and kick to his many 3 point snippers. Pretty easy to rack up assists when you have 5 guys on your team who can shoot over 40% from three and the system is designed to boost your stats. A luxury Kobe or MJ never had. Lebron in the triangle would not be able to produce those kind of assist numbers...especially without his 3 point snippers.

There you have it, the proof is in the pudding. Kobe would have won the title that year and had six rings had he been lucky enough to face the Spurs in the finals like Lebron did. Unfortunately, he had to face a far better team in the Celtics. The likes of which Lebron has never faced. Sorry, but it's all about how you do against the top competition, not about how you pad your stats in the regular season against the weaker teams in the weakest conference of all time. Kobe clearly performed better when the stakes were up against the better competition. That is the true measure of greatness.

Great post.

Bostonjorge
07-17-2013, 05:05 PM
Lebron couldn't win in Cleveland and no one wanted to go to Cleveland to play with him. He had to go look for help to finally win. He's a ring chaser unlike kobe who never chased a ring yet he has 3 more then James. Overall kobe is a better winner than James.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 05:08 PM
Lebron couldn't win in Cleveland and no one wanted to go to Cleveland to play with him. He had to go look for help to finally win. He's a ring chaser unlike kobe who never chased a ring yet he has 3 more then James. Overall kobe is a better winner than James.

did you know basketball was a team sport? And please, show me evidence, that players didn't want to play with LeBron.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 05:08 PM
Lebron couldn't win in Cleveland and no one wanted to go to Cleveland to play with him. He had to go look for help to finally win. He's a ring chaser unlike kobe who never chased a ring yet he has 3 more then James. Overall kobe is a better winner than James.

give lebron prime shaq from the start, RIP the nba.

Chronz
07-17-2013, 05:12 PM
His accolades and awards just don't hold up however. Though, did they even have all the awards they have now in the early to mid 60's, when he was at his peak?

What makes you think that? Does context matter at all?

Delrayhc
07-17-2013, 05:16 PM
Lebron couldn't win in Cleveland and no one wanted to go to Cleveland to play with him. He had to go look for help to finally win. He's a ring chaser unlike kobe who never chased a ring yet he has 3 more then James. Overall kobe is a better winner than James.

Ok Einstein heres a brain twisting question for you. Why didnt Kobe go ring chasing?

bucketss
07-17-2013, 05:19 PM
Ok Einstein heres a brain twisting question for you. Why didnt Kobe go ring chasing?

well nelly thinks hes been spoiled like a baby.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 05:23 PM
What makes you think that? Does context matter at all?

Sure context matters. Why don't you think the awards, chips, and hardware mean as much, unless you are getting at something else?

amos1er
07-17-2013, 05:24 PM
It's proof you choose to use for your opinion.

Care to challenge the points I made then?


At some point, you have to realize that the LeBron is better than Kobe movement shifted heavily about a month ago, even for the self admitted LeBron haters, and there is no stopping it at this point.

Where, on the PSD NBA forum? Please...don't make me laugh. This place has always been pro-Lebron anti Kobe for as long as I remember. Can you provide any sort of proof to justify this movement you speak of? Or am I just taking your word for it.



Throwing out opinions as fact when its been noted that you are seriously biased when it comes to Kobe just doesn't work for anyone anymore.

At least I used historical data and logic to back up my opinions. You sir have provided none of the above. Honestly it's humorous for you to call me bias in favor of Kobe pretending like you are absent of any bias yourself. Most on here would agree that you are on of the more bias posters when it comes to this topic. Not sure if you realize that yet. At least I am not in denial about my bias and actually bring decent arguments to the table and when I chose to respond to other posters, I don't dodge the points the make and offer my opinions as a counter argument.

Oh, and I thought you were ignoring me and didn't want me responding to your posts anymore.

Hawkeye15
07-17-2013, 05:25 PM
I learned one important thing from my ex-wife. Never debate rationally with the irrational. So no, I don't care to debate with you.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 05:26 PM
Great post.

Why thank you sir.

Funny how none of these guys want to go anywhere near it.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 05:27 PM
Why thank you sir.

Funny how none of these guys want to go anywhere near it.

isn't it kind of weird that lebron trolls like ilusionist and nick are only ones who appreciate your posts?

ATX
07-17-2013, 05:29 PM
isn't it kind of weird that lebron trolls like ilusionist and nick are only ones who appreciate your posts?

Literally the only two.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 05:29 PM
I learned one important thing from my ex-wife. Never debate rationally with the irrational. So no, I don't care to debate with you.

Thats good advice actually, but what I don't understand is why you even responded to me in the first place then? You made it clear that you didn't want to debate with me anymore and I respected that and no longer engage you. Then you go ahead and engage me and then when I retort you are all of the sudden above me. Must be nice to make up your own rules as you go along.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 05:30 PM
isn't it kind of weird that lebron trolls like ilusionist and nick are only ones who appreciate your posts?

Illusionist is banned thanks to the Kobe bias that exists on this site. Praise Lebron and rip Kobe day in and day out and you are fine. Praise Kobe and rip Lebron and you are a troll. The double standard on PSD is truly laughable.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 05:34 PM
Illusionist is banned thanks to the Kobe bias that exists on this site. Praise Lebron and rip Kobe day in and day out and you are fine. Praise Kobe and rip Lebron and you are a troll. The double standard on PSD is truly laughable.

nope. he got banned because hes a troll. praising lebron in a way is like dissing kobe to you kobe fans, the jealousy is whats truly laughable.

Quinnsanity
07-17-2013, 05:37 PM
The interesting thing is, all these arguments are a waste of time. 10 years from now, this will be a laughable topic.

Exactly. It's why I'm not bothering to respond to Amos. It's not an argument, it's just stupid. I mean every single Kobe argument is flawed. Better scorer? Stats support LeBron. More clutch? Stats disagree, and heart isn't quantifiable. Talk about it all you want, and I see why it's important, but when LeBron's clutch stats destroy Kobe's that means a great deal. More of a winner? Yea LeBron ditched Cleveland for Miami, KOBE TRIED TO DO THE SAME THING TO THE LAKERS! Why don't Laker fans acknowledge that he demanded a trade? It's ridiculous. Meanwhile every LeBron argument is ironclad. LeBron is better. This just isn't a question anymore.

nickdymez
07-17-2013, 05:41 PM
Exactly. It's why I'm not bothering to respond to Amos. It's not an argument, it's just stupid. I mean every single Kobe argument is flawed. Better scorer? Stats support LeBron. More clutch? Stats disagree, and heart isn't quantifiable. Talk about it all you want, and I see why it's important, but when LeBron's clutch stats destroy Kobe's that means a great deal. More of a winner? Yea LeBron ditched Cleveland for Miami, KOBE TRIED TO DO THE SAME THING TO THE LAKERS! Why don't Laker fans acknowledge that he demanded a trade? It's ridiculous. Meanwhile every LeBron argument is ironclad. LeBron is better. This just isn't a question anymore.

Well you keep studying numbers, I'll watch and form my opinion. Thats why i dont any of you advanced stats people serious.

ll_eric_ll
07-17-2013, 05:42 PM
Imo, any star player that carried their own team to the finals, and not team up with other superstars to form a superior team than anyone else would have a more impressive accomplishment,.. I dont find what lebron has don as of yet to be miraculous,...

SteBO
07-17-2013, 05:44 PM
This thread is pure comedy......

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 05:46 PM
Did I just read that LeBron was a system player?

Mr.ATLHawks
07-17-2013, 05:53 PM
Imo, any star player that carried their own team to the finals, and not team up with other superstars to form a superior team than anyone else would have a more impressive accomplishment,.. I dont find what lebron has don as of yet to be miraculous,...

Everybody teams up. Would Ray Allen KG and Pierce have a ring if they didn't team up? Shaq and Kobe, Jordan and Pippen.

So if a player is traded then its not his fault but if he openly decides to move on then he is a worthless piece of ****? I don't get that.. He played his contract out, fulfilling his contractual obligation, and then left. Nobody bashes the owners for years on end when they trade away a star, but we criticize the players for choosing their own destiny?

I don't get it...

bucketss
07-17-2013, 05:54 PM
Imo, any star player that carried their own team to the finals, and not team up with other superstars to form a superior team than anyone else would have a more impressive accomplishment,.. I dont find what lebron has don as of yet to be miraculous,...

i guess an injured wade and zero points game 7 bosh, makes miami a super team:rolleyes:

valade16
07-17-2013, 05:56 PM
Just as a question, is there anyone that disagrees that LeBron is the best basketball player on the planet right now?

koreancabbage
07-17-2013, 05:56 PM
Well you keep studying numbers, I'll watch and form my opinion. Thats why i dont any of you advanced stats people serious.

dude, just use regular stats. PPG, RPG, APG, FG% and Lebron still has him beat.
if you HAD watched, you would know Lebron has outplayed Kobe in every aspect of the game.

and with the topic with the criteria listed out, Kobe has never touched it.

and the argument that he left his team to win a championship, Lakers are not Kobe's original team either. And does that really affect how good a player is?

No - that's an opinion based off fiction belief that a player has to stay with one whole team to win championships.

and if you want to form an opinion, you need facts to back it up and to justify it. That's how opinions hold up b/c, seriously, a 5 yr old can make up the same opinion as you and you pretty much argue like one.

you seriously have no hard facts to back up your statement on why Kobe is better than Lebron other than your opinion based off other baseless opinions.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 05:59 PM
2012 & 2013 he has 2 Titles, 2 Finals MVP's, 2 Season MVP's, Gold Medal, 27 Game Win Streak also then the 30+, 60+% streak

Obviously Jordan in 91 & 92 but man this is the greatest 2 year stretch I have ever seen

Jordan and Shaq.

Lebron was one mircle shot away from being 1-3 in the finals. His regular season Mvps are not as prestigious as people make them. Mj would have 10 if the system was just.

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 06:01 PM
Jordan and Shaq.

Lebron was one mircle shot away from being 1-3 in the finals. His regular season Mvps are not as prestigious and people make them. Mj would have 10 if the system was just.

Shaq was 1 miracle shot of not making the Finals in 2002... Why does that even matter?

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:02 PM
Exactly. It's why I'm not bothering to respond to Amos. It's not an argument, it's just stupid.

Some very excellent counter arguments you have there. :rolleyes: lol

Truth be told, you didn't respond because you got owned. You have nothing to say because I schooled you. If you really thought you had a better argument than me, you would have responded to the points I made. I'm still waiting for a valid response if you actually have one. If you don't want to engage with me, then thats fine. What is lame however, is you responding to my post through Hawkeye's post all 3rd party like. If you have something to say, then say it directly to my face. Trust me bro, you don't want to follow Hawkeyes example. He is the king of excuses when backed into a corner. On top of all that, you just re hashed the same exact opinion argument you spewed the first time. No offense, but Either step up or step aside. As sad as it is for me to say, you all need to take a page out of Chronz's and mngopher35's book. At least they are not afraid to attack an argument head on as opposed to making excuses and pretending they are above it all together.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:05 PM
Did I just read that LeBron was a system player?

Of course he is.

He has been since Cleveland. Isolation drive and kick high usage pg on offense to said 3 point snipers, and PF on defense to gather as many rebounds as possible. Hence, the "Lebron system".

Bostonjorge
07-17-2013, 06:05 PM
No matter how you dress up your tiers, you completely off base. To put Lebron in the same conversation as Jordan is blasphemous. Jordan never lost in the finals and never needed to form a super team consisting of a top five player and a top fifteen player along with 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three just to beat some of the weakest competition in NBA history in the east and some mediocre competition in the finals. All with questionable calls the whole way through. You are only as great as your competition and Lebron hasn't really had all that much compared to greats like Jordan and Kobe. Especially considering the super team he constructed when he went ring chasing.

Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013_finals.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008_WCF.html

What do you think about the difference in numbers that Kobe put up against younger better Spurs teams on road to success with weaker supporting casts than Lebron had?

2008 WCF

A prime Kobe with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron's 2013 Heat against a younger tougher Spurs team...

Kobe 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 90.9 FT%, 33.3 3PT%, 53.3 FG%. Most importantly...won the series in 5 games with his second best player in Gasol only contributing 13.2 ppg and his third option Odom only contributing 12.8 ppg.

2013 Finals

A prime Lebron vs. a much older Spurs and weaker Spurs team than Kobe played back in the 2008 WCF...

25.3 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 79.5 FT%, 35.3 3PT%, 44.7 FG%. Barely won by the skin of their teeth in 7 games. Lebron received more help all around from his supporting cast as well. His second option Wade contributed 19.6 ppg and his third option Bosh contributed 11.9 ppg. Both shot significantly better from the field as well. Wade 47.6 FG% and Bosh 46.2 FG% compared to Gasol 44.6 FG% and Odom 40.4 FG%. Clearly Lebron's big three are in a whole other universe that what Kobe had to work with.

In addition, his fourth and fifth options in Allen and Chalmers also produced more than Kobe's fourth and fifth options in Farmar and Radmanovic. Both Allen and Chalmers contributed double figure scoring. Allen with 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and from 3 and Chalmers with 10.6 ppg on 39% from the field, but 40.6% from 3. In 2008 Farmar (Kobe's fourth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 45.7% from the field and 41.7% from 3. Radmanovic (fifth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 63.3% from the field, but only 27.3% from 3. Clearly Kobe outperformed Lebron with far less help against a better version of the same team.

And please don't throw in Lebron's empty rebounding and assist numbers because as I said earlier, they are a product of the system he runs and the players he choses to surround himself with. In 2008 Kobe had two guys in Gasol and Odom who both averaged 9.6 rpg in the WCF. Thus there are less rebounds for Kobe to grab, but his team is better off clearly. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but thats mainly due to the fact that there are no real rebounders on his team and who cares anyways because the Heat are last in the NBA in rebounding. It's not too impressive when you can put up the best rebounding stats on a team that is last in the NBA...talk about not sacrificing personal glory for the good of the team. :rolleyes:

As for the assists, Kobe played in the triangle which is not assist friendly at all, but is better for winning games and getting all around passing from the team. Lebron plays a pg on offense which is more designed as a iso drive and kick to his many 3 point snippers. Pretty easy to rack up assists when you have 5 guys on your team who can shoot over 40% from three and the system is designed to boost your stats. A luxury Kobe or MJ never had. Lebron in the triangle would not be able to produce those kind of assist numbers...especially without his 3 point snippers.

There you have it, the proof is in the pudding. Kobe would have won the title that year and had six rings had he been lucky enough to face the Spurs in the finals like Lebron did. Unfortunately, he had to face a far better team in the Celtics. The likes of which Lebron has never faced. Sorry, but it's all about how you do against the top competition, not about how you pad your stats in the regular season against the weaker teams in the weakest conference of all time. Kobe clearly performed better when the stakes were up against the better competition. That is the true measure of greatness.

There are a lot of facts in here. No where does he say lebron sucks.

Jordan on his way to tiles beat Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Miller, isaiah all in there prime. List goes on

Kobe on way to titles beat Duncan, KG, webber, iverson, kidd all in there prime.
List goes on

Lebron on his way to the titles has beat no prime player's. This year alone he beat Jennings , Noah , hillbert, and old spurs team.

Delrayhc
07-17-2013, 06:07 PM
Imo, any star player that carried their own team to the finals, and not team up with other superstars to form a superior team than anyone else would have a more impressive accomplishment,.. I dont find what lebron has don as of yet to be miraculous,...


Awesome!

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:07 PM
Shaq was 1 miracle shot of not making the Finals in 2002... Why does that even matter?

It matter because Lebron would have one less ring and finlas mvp if Ray Allen didn't save Lebrons legacy. Lebron would have been the laughing stock of the sports world if Ray didn't hit that shot.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:08 PM
heart isn't quantifiable.

lol, yet when we all bring up the fact that Kobe is a better winner and it's proven through rings, which are quantifiable, you all want to avoid that topic like the plague.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:09 PM
There are a lot of facts in here. No where does he say lebron sucks.

Jordan on his way to tiles beat Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Miller, isaiah all in there prime. List goes on

Kobe on way to titles beat Duncan, KG, webber, iverson, kidd all in there prime.
List goes on

Lebron on his way to the titles has beat no prime player's. This year alone he beat Jennings , Noah , hillbert, and old spurs team.

Thank you.

Still, not a singe one of these overly confident Lebron prognosticators have responded to any of this.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:13 PM
Of course he is.

He has been since Cleveland. Isolation drive and kick high usage pg on offense to said 3 point snipers, and PF on defense to gather as many rebounds as possible. Hence, the "Lebron system".

Lol, that's a pretty funny way of putting it. It's true. This is why lebron will have terrible games, but will some how have great looking box scores.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:17 PM
Literally the only two.

Nope. Bostonjorge just gave it the thumbs up too.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:20 PM
Lol, that's a pretty funny way of putting it. It's true. This is why lebron will have terrible games, but will some how have great looking box scores.

Yes, and it's exactly why he will struggle with top tier competition while guys like Jordan, Kobe, Magic, and Bird were able to beat the best of the best en route to their respective titles.

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 06:21 PM
It matter because Lebron would have one less ring and finlas mvp if Ray Allen didn't save Lebrons legacy. Lebron would have been the laughing stock of the sports world if Ray didn't hit that shot.

So how many shots did Horry & Fisher hit for Shaq & Kobe? Did Steve Kerr hit a shot for Jordan before? Did Elie hit a shot for Duncan? Did Big Game James win games for Magic? Every NBA Great has had teammates hit clutch shots for them...

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 06:22 PM
Of course he is.

He has been since Cleveland. Isolation drive and kick high usage pg on offense to said 3 point snipers, and PF on defense to gather as many rebounds as possible. Hence, the "Lebron system".

Lol... I guess Kobe can't win a title without the triangle offense and a big man that can draw doubles?

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:23 PM
It matter because Lebron would have one less ring and finlas mvp if Ray Allen didn't save Lebrons legacy. Lebron would have been the laughing stock of the sports world if Ray didn't hit that shot.

Very good point. Ray Allen did save his ***. Jordan or Kobe never had that good of a 4th option in any of their title runs. Allen averaged 10.6 ppg on 54% shooting from the field and 55% from 3 in this years finals...AS A FOURTH OPTION! Unheard of.

ATX
07-17-2013, 06:24 PM
So how many shots did Horry & Fisher hit for Shaq & Kobe? Did Steve Kerr hit a shot for Jordan before? Did Elie hit a shot for Duncan? Did Big Game James win games for Magic? Every NBA Great has had teammates hit clutch shots for them...

Seriously. Some people are just apparently incapable of being rational.

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 06:27 PM
Very good point. Ray Allen did save his ***. Jordan or Kobe never had that good of a 4th option in any of their title runs. Allen averaged 10.6 ppg on 54% shooting from the field and 55% from 3 in this years finals...AS A FOURTH OPTION! Unheard of.

2010, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest...?

& in 2002, did Robert Horry not save Shaq & Kobe in the WCF? I mean they both missed layups before that shot...

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:28 PM
It matter because Lebron would have one less ring and finlas mvp if Ray Allen didn't save Lebrons legacy. Lebron would have been the laughing stock of the sports world if Ray didn't hit that shot.

yeah because lebrons 18 4th quarter points had no effect on the game.:rolleyes:

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:29 PM
Lol... I guess Kobe can't win a title without the triangle offense and a big man that can draw doubles?

Gasol drew doubles? lol

Funny, here I thought is was the other way around and Kobe was drawing doubles so that Gasol could operate better. Gasol had career highs in ppg and FG% when playing with a prime Kobe. Not to mention he made 3 of his 4 allstar appearances after teaming up with Kobe. Shaq also put up career highs when playing with Kobe. So lets not act like Kobe doesn't make his teammates better. Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook and Smush Parker and countless other scrubs who had no business playing in the NBA for over 3 years owe their careers to Kobe Bryant. Every marque player that has teamed up with Lebron however, has seen significant reductions in their over all stats and advanced stats. Please explain that little phenomenon.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:30 PM
lol, yet when we all bring up the fact that Kobe is a better winner and it's proven through rings, which are quantifiable, you all want to avoid that topic like the plague.

rings he won from being a sidekick to shaq. i wonder what lebron would do with prime shaq?

Delrayhc
07-17-2013, 06:30 PM
Literally the only two.

Nope. Bostonjorge just gave it the thumbs up too.

FANTASTIC !!! Now you have a wolfpack of 3 !!!

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:31 PM
Very good point. Ray Allen did save his ***. Jordan or Kobe never had that good of a 4th option in any of their title runs. Allen averaged 10.6 ppg on 54% shooting from the field and 55% from 3 in this years finals...AS A FOURTH OPTION! Unheard of.

lebron raises the level of his team mates, just the previous year allen looked like he should retire.

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 06:32 PM
Gasol drew doubles? lol

Funny, here I thought is was the other way around and Kobe was drawing doubles so that Gasol could operate better. Gasol career highs in ppg and FG% when playing with a prime Kobe. Not to mention he made 3 of his 4 allstar appearances after teaming up with Kobe. Shaq also put up career highs when playing with Kobe. So lets not act like Kobe doesn't make his teammates better. Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook and Smush Parker and countless other scrubs who had no business playing in the NBA for over 3 years owe their careers to Kobe Bryant. Every marque player that has teamed up with Lebron however, has seen significant reductions in their over all stats and advanced stats. Please explain that little phenomenon.

Even Shaq gave all of that credit to Phil Jackson, who most of it goes to for everyone you just said, including Kobe

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:32 PM
So how many shots did Horry & Fisher hit for Shaq & Kobe? Did Steve Kerr hit a shot for Jordan before? Did Elie hit a shot for Duncan? Did Big Game James win games for Magic? Every NBA Great has had teammates hit clutch shots for them...

Ray allen hit the most clutch shot of all time. I'm sorry, but Lebron had a sub par finals. He also had a chance to tie the game, but missed the bigggest shot of his life. If it weren't for dumbass Pop leaving Dumcan out of the game Lebron would be 1-3 in the finals. Basically what I'm saying is that you guys are getting ahead of yourselves and over rating Lebron a bit. He's a great player, but lets take it down a notch guys.

ATX
07-17-2013, 06:32 PM
Why are we discussing Kobe in this thread?

Oh I see, no one is, just one particular person.

Kobe can't even touch the top 5 in regards to this topic.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:33 PM
2010, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest...?

& in 2002, did Robert Horry not save Shaq & Kobe in the WCF? I mean they both missed layups before that shot...

Please tell me a fourth option that Kobe had who averaged better than 10.6 ppg in the finals on 54% from the field and 55% from three. In the 2010 finals Fish was the fourth best player on the Lakers averaging 8.6 ppg on 42% from the field and 20% from three. Fail. Nothing compared to Ray Allen. Try again please.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:33 PM
Very good point. Ray Allen did save his ***. Jordan or Kobe never had that good of a 4th option in any of their title runs. Allen averaged 10.6 ppg on 54% shooting from the field and 55% from 3 in this years finals...AS A FOURTH OPTION! Unheard of.

It's no secret that Lebron has one of the best teams ever. I don't think anyone denies that.

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 06:34 PM
Ray allen hit the most clutch shot of all time. I'm sorry, but Lebron had a sub par finals. He also had a chance to tie the game, but missed the bigggest shot of his life. If it weren't for dumbass Pop leaving Dumcan out of the game Lebron would be 1-3 in the finals. Basically what I'm saying is that you guys are getting ahead of yourselves and over rating Lebron a bit. He's a great player, but lets take it down a notch guys.

You obviously hate LeBron so I'll leave you alone

HouRealCoach
07-17-2013, 06:34 PM
Please tell me a fourth option that Kobe had who averaged better than 10.6 ppg in the finals on 54% from the field and 55% from three. In the 2010 finals Fish was the fourth best player on the Lakers averaging 8.6 ppg on 42% from the field and 20% from three. Fail. Nothing compared to Ray Allen. Try again please.

What did Bosh do in the Finals? Tell me that because he was the third option..

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:35 PM
lebron raises the level of his team mates, just the previous year allen looked like he should retire.

Allen put perhaps the best finals performance for a 4th option in NBA history. 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and 55% from three. Including the shot that saved the series for the Heat after Lebron had missed his attempt on the same play.

ATX
07-17-2013, 06:36 PM
Ray allen hit the most clutch shot of all time. I'm sorry, but Lebron had a sub par finals. He also had a chance to tie the game, but missed the bigggest shot of his life. If it weren't for dumbass Pop leaving Dumcan out of the game Lebron would be 1-3 in the finals. Basically what I'm saying is that you guys are getting ahead of yourselves and over rating Lebron a bit. He's a great player, but lets take it down a notch guys.

Finals MVP

Game 7 stats

12-23, 37 points on 52% FG%

8-8 FT's, 100% FT%

12 rebounds
4 assists
2 steals

2x Champ: FACT

Sorry

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:38 PM
yeah because lebrons 18 4th quarter points had no effect on the game.:rolleyes:

You do know that lebron slowing choked the game away right? He also had a chance to tie it in the closing seconds. The Spurs were on rebound away from a championship.

valade16
07-17-2013, 06:38 PM
Please tell me a fourth option that Kobe had who averaged better than 10.6 ppg in the finals on 54% from the field and 55% from three. In the 2010 finals Fish was the fourth best player on the Lakers averaging 8.6 ppg on 42% from the field and 20% from three. Fail. Nothing compared to Ray Allen. Try again please.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the Kobephiles are now trying to discredit LeBron because Ray Allen hit a clutch shot.

The only thing that tells me is that they are 16 years old or younger, otherwise they wouldn't dare bring up a role player hitting a clutch shot as a means of seperating Kobe and the Lakers.

I mean, have they ever even heard of Robert Horry and Derek Fisher? They made more clutch shots that saved Kobe's ***** than anyone for LeBron ever has...

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:39 PM
Ray allen hit the most clutch shot of all time. I'm sorry, but Lebron had a sub par finals. He also had a chance to tie the game, but missed the bigggest shot of his life. If it weren't for dumbass Pop leaving Dumcan out of the game Lebron would be 1-3 in the finals. Basically what I'm saying is that you guys are getting ahead of yourselves and over rating Lebron a bit. He's a great player, but lets take it down a notch guys.

lebron had a subpar finals, but still a better finals than kobe has ever had hmmm.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:40 PM
lebron raises the level of his team mates, just the previous year allen looked like he should retire.

LOL, So Lebron is so good he made turned Ray Allen back into a superstar and helped him hit those threes?? You guys are to much.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:41 PM
What did Bosh do in the Finals? Tell me that because he was the third option..

Basketball reference has Bosh listed as the third option in the 2013 finals averaging 11.9 ppg, 8.9 rpg, and 2.1 apg on 46% from the field.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013_finals.html

Bostonjorge
07-17-2013, 06:41 PM
Why are we discussing Kobe in this thread?

Oh I see, no one is, just one particular person.

Kobe can't even touch the top 5 in regards to this topic.

Name 5 guys who have had back to back titles and back to back finals mvp. The most 2 important stats every year.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:41 PM
You obviously hate LeBron so I'll leave you alone

I don't at all actually, but you guys are way over rating the guy.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:42 PM
Please tell me a fourth option that Kobe had who averaged better than 10.6 ppg in the finals on 54% from the field and 55% from three. In the 2010 finals Fish was the fourth best player on the Lakers averaging 8.6 ppg on 42% from the field and 20% from three. Fail. Nothing compared to Ray Allen. Try again please.

show me the numbers, again lebron gives allen wide open shots, thats one of the greatest shooters of all time, i wonder if kobe would continuously find allen like that??

It's no secret that Lebron has one of the best teams ever. I don't think anyone denies that.

a lot of people would deny it, injured wade and zero point game 7 bosh and a bunch of role players doesn't look like one of the best teams ever.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:43 PM
Finals MVP

Game 7 stats

12-23, 37 points on 52% FG%

8-8 FT's, 100% FT%

12 rebounds
4 assists
2 steals

2x Champ: FACT

Sorry

I never said he didn't have a great game 7. His over all finals was not very good though. Ray Allen got him to that game 7 btw.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:44 PM
lebron had a subpar finals, but still a better finals than kobe has ever had hmmm.

Nope.

2009 and 2010 Kobe had better finals than Lebron. Lets also not forget that Kobe manhandled a younger better Spurs team. Lebron barely made it through an ancient Spurs team by the skin of his teeth and Kobe had better numbers every time be played the Spurs in his career. Lucky for Lebron, when he beat the Spurs, if Kobe got a ring every time he beat the Spurs, he would have 7 by now.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:45 PM
lebron had a subpar finals, but still a better finals than kobe has ever had hmmm.

That's false, and I don't give a ****. I'm a Bulls fan. Try again.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:45 PM
You do know that lebron slowing choked the game away right? He also had a chance to tie it in the closing seconds. The Spurs were on rebound away from a championship.

lebron was exausted everyone was, everyone on both sides were missing clutch shots, he carried them down 10 in the 4th, he hit a big three to cut the lead, he also hit the last fg in overtime. and to top it off he locked parker down so bad papovich had to sit him.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:47 PM
LOL, So Lebron is so good he made turned Ray Allen back into a superstar and helped him hit those threes?? You guys are to much.

LOL so you're saying allen played like a superstar this year.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:48 PM
show me the numbers, again lebron gives allen wide open shots, thats one of the greatest shooters of all time, i wonder if kobe would continuously find allen like that??


a lot of people would deny it, injured wade and zero point game 7 bosh and a bunch of role players doesn't look like one of the best teams ever.

A little comparison of how a prime Kobe did against a prime Spurs with a proven weaker cast to how Lebron did against a washed up Spurs with a proven better cast.

2008 WCF

A prime Kobe with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron's 2013 Heat against a younger tougher Spurs team...

Kobe 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 90.9 FT%, 33.3 3PT%, 53.3 FG%. Most importantly...won the series in 5 games with his second best player in Gasol only contributing 13.2 ppg and his third option Odom only contributing 12.8 ppg.

2013 Finals

A prime Lebron vs. a much older Spurs and weaker Spurs team than Kobe played back in the 2008 WCF...

25.3 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 79.5 FT%, 35.3 3PT%, 44.7 FG%. Barely won by the skin of their teeth in 7 games. Lebron received more help all around from his supporting cast as well. His second option Wade contributed 19.6 ppg and his third option Bosh contributed 11.9 ppg. Both shot significantly better from the field as well. Wade 47.6 FG% and Bosh 46.2 FG% compared to Gasol 44.6 FG% and Odom 40.4 FG%. Clearly Lebron's big three are in a whole other universe that what Kobe had to work with.

In addition, his fourth and fifth options in Allen and Chalmers also produced more than Kobe's fourth and fifth options in Farmar and Radmanovic. Both Allen and Chalmers contributed double figure scoring. Allen with 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and from 3 and Chalmers with 10.6 ppg on 39% from the field, but 40.6% from 3. In 2008 Farmar (Kobe's fourth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 45.7% from the field and 41.7% from 3. Radmanovic (fifth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 63.3% from the field, but only 27.3% from 3. Clearly Kobe outperformed Lebron with far less help against a better version of the same team.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:48 PM
Basketball reference has Bosh listed as the third option in the 2013 finals averaging 11.9 ppg, 8.9 rpg, and 2.1 apg on 46% from the field.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013_finals.html

Looks like horace grant numbers.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:50 PM
Nope.

2009 and 2010 Kobe had better finals than Lebron. Lets also not forget that Kobe manhandled a younger better Spurs team. Lebron barely made it through an ancient Spurs team by the skin of his teeth and Kobe had better numbers every time be played the Spurs in his career. Lucky for Lebron, when he beat the Spurs, if Kobe got a ring every time he beat the Spurs, he would have 7 by now.

not the same spurs team, so their no point in comparing. this spurs team is more offense oriented. they also don't play the 'boring game style anymore.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:50 PM
show me the numbers, again lebron gives allen wide open shots, thats one of the greatest shooters of all time, i wonder if kobe would continuously find allen like that??


a lot of people would deny it, injured wade and zero point game 7 bosh and a bunch of role players doesn't look like one of the best teams ever.

Lebron played like **** and they still won the series. Lebron easily has the most help out of any super star in the game. Only homers would deny that. Not to mention the Spurs are over rated old men them selves.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:51 PM
That's false, and I don't give a ****. I'm a Bulls fan. Try again.

a jordan fan pretty much who is threatened by lebron greatness.

ATX
07-17-2013, 06:52 PM
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the Kobephiles are now trying to discredit LeBron because Ray Allen hit a clutch shot.

The only thing that tells me is that they are 16 years old or younger, otherwise they wouldn't dare bring up a role player hitting a clutch shot as a means of seperating Kobe and the Lakers.

I mean, have they ever even heard of Robert Horry and Derek Fisher? They made more clutch shots that saved Kobe's ***** than anyone for LeBron ever has...

Exactly


lebron had a subpar finals, but still a better finals than kobe has ever had hmmm.

Hmmm, indeed


Name 5 guys who have had back to back titles and back to back finals mvp. The most 2 important stats every year.

See Haweye's post. Not that you should care, but since you've aligned yourself as a sidekick to the by far biggest hater and most irrational poster on the site Amos1er, then your going straight on the ignore list.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 06:52 PM
Lebron played like **** and they still won the series. Lebron easily has the most help out of any super star in the game. Only homers would deny that. Not to mention the Spurs are over rated old men them selves.

25 12 and 7 yeah in what world is that playing like ****?? loll lebron haters are cute.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:53 PM
lebron was exausted everyone was, everyone on both sides were missing clutch shots, he carried them down 10 in the 4th, he hit a big three to cut the lead, he also hit the last fg in overtime. and to top it off he locked parker down so bad papovich had to sit him.

Yes, while the Spurs A team was on the bench.

What about when Wade won game 4 for Lebron in the fourth and Lebron just came in at the end and stat padded once again while the Spurs starters were on the bench.

My point proven again. Lebron can't dominate against the best of the best. He just goes all out against the weaker competition to boost his stats. Similar to he did on team USA in 2008 when he was looking like a stud against all the weaker countries, then in the gold medal game against Spain when everything was on the line, they turned to Kobe to get the job done.

ATX
07-17-2013, 06:53 PM
Well I'm out, no sense in arguing with brick walls. I'll check back in for rationalism later.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:54 PM
lebron was exausted everyone was, everyone on both sides were missing clutch shots, he carried them down 10 in the 4th, he hit a big three to cut the lead, he also hit the last fg in overtime. and to top it off he locked parker down so bad papovich had to sit him.

Lebron closed the game terribly and missed the game tying FG. If duncan was in the game to get the rebound Lebron would be looked at completely different being 1-3 in the finals.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:54 PM
Looks like horace grant numbers.

Perhaps, but Kerr or Paxton never put up Ray Allen numbers.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:55 PM
not the same spurs team, so their no point in comparing. this spurs team is more offense oriented. they also don't play the 'boring game style anymore.

The ealrier championship Spurs teams were way better than the old Spurs team now.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 06:57 PM
a jordan fan pretty much who is threatened by lebron greatness.

I really hope this site isn't filled with delusional Lebron fans like you :laugh: Lebron will never touch Jordans legacy.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:59 PM
In 2012 Bosh was 15 and 9. Don't remember Horace Grant putting up numbers like that. I also don't remember Horace Grant getting a max deal and being a franchise player on his former team that took a pay cut to form a super team. If not for Bosh's zero point game in game 7, he would have had much better overall numbers as well.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 06:59 PM
I really hope this site isn't filled with delusional Lebron fans like you :laugh: Lebron will never touch Jordans legacy.

Haha, the Lebronites on this site are a very special breed indeed.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:00 PM
The ealrier championship Spurs teams were way better than the old Spurs team now.

Yup.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 07:00 PM
Yes, while the Spurs A team was on the bench.

What about when Wade won game 4 for Lebron in the fourth and Lebron just came in at the end and stat padded once again while the Spurs starters were on the bench.

My point proven again. Lebron can't dominate against the best of the best. He just goes all out against the weaker competition to boost his stats. Similar to he did on team USA in 2008 when he was looking like a stud against all the weaker countries, then in the gold medal game against Spain when everything was on the line, they turned to Kobe to get the job done.

it was a joint domination. im just wondering how your point was proven? just using your opinions as facts again? its funny you say he can't do it on the spurs A team, did you watch game7 LOL they had to bunch most of the A team because lebron was abusing them.


and you mention the olympics WOW anything to plug in your boy lol.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 07:00 PM
Perhaps, but Kerr or Paxton never put up Ray Allen numbers.

they played with a ball hog, so that not surprising.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 07:01 PM
25 12 and 7 yeah in what world is that playing like ****?? loll lebron haters are cute.

Here go Lebron fans throwing out his inflated stats. Lebron was burned for padding his stats in at least 2 finals games. Everyone who watched the finals seen how terribly he played. I don't need some kid on the internet to feed me bs box scores to know what really happened. No one is hating, but my god you Lebron fans are really changing my opinion on the guy. Stop over rating the guy.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 07:01 PM
The ealrier championship Spurs teams were way better than the old Spurs team now.

okay way better, any insight other than your biased opinion?

bucketss
07-17-2013, 07:04 PM
In 2012 Bosh was 15 and 9. Don't remember Horace Grant putting up numbers like that. I also don't remember Horace Grant getting a max deal and being a franchise player on his former team that took a pay cut to form a super team. If not for Bosh's zero point game in game 7, he would have had much better overall numbers as well.

im raptor fan, bosh stat padded like no other in toronto. why do you think no one cared when he left? and bosh should have taken way less lol can't believe someone would pay him 110 mill 6 years.

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 07:05 PM
okay way better, any insight other than your biased opinion?

How about logic? The younger version trio of Duncan,Ginobli, nad Parker were a alot better than they are now. Just look how pathetic Gino looked in the finals. He basically played for the Heat.

bucketss
07-17-2013, 07:06 PM
Here go Lebron fans throwing out his inflated stats. Lebron was burned for padding his stats in at least 2 finals games. Everyone who watched the finals seen how terribly he played. I don't need some kid on the internet to feed me bs box scores to know what really happened. No one is hating, but my god you Lebron fans are really changing my opinion on the guy. Stop over rating the guy.

he didn't play terrible, he had one bad game that was game 3. overrating my ***, you're the one treating lebron like hes some scrub LMAO!!!, the same guy who said lebron had a terrible finals GOTH. dude put in work,

bucketss
07-17-2013, 07:08 PM
How about logic? The younger version trio of Duncan,Ginobli, nad Parker were a alot better than they are now. Just look how pathetic Gino looked in the finals. He basically played for the Heat.

like i said different team, different style of play. you can't just plug platers in somewhere and expect a team to be superior, just look at the nets, all talent, no system or identity.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:08 PM
a jordan fan pretty much who is threatened by lebron greatness.

:laugh: Lebron will never sniff Jordan.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:11 PM
Here go Lebron fans throwing out his inflated stats. Lebron was burned for padding his stats in at least 2 finals games. Everyone who watched the finals seen how terribly he played. I don't need some kid on the internet to feed me bs box scores to know what really happened. No one is hating, but my god you Lebron fans are really changing my opinion on the guy. Stop over rating the guy.

Yup, regular season stats and MVP awards are all these guys have. Then Lebron goes and forms the Justice League over in the pathetic east to ring chase and wins two against some very mediocre competition that doesn't even compare to what Jordan, Kobe, Magic, or Bird faced and all of the sudden these dreamers want to say he has a chance to go down as the GOAT. :laugh: It really is cute when you think about it though.

amos1er
07-17-2013, 07:12 PM
like i said different team, different style of play. you can't just plug platers in somewhere and expect a team to be superior, just look at the nets, all talent, no system or identity.

In 2008, Kobe beat a better Spurs team with less help in less games. FACT!!!

LegendsNvrDie23
07-17-2013, 07:14 PM
he didn't play terrible, he had one bad game that was game 3. overrating my ***, you're the one treating lebron like hes some scrub LMAO!!!, the same guy who said lebron had a terrible finals GOTH. dude put in work,

If you guys didn't make a ridiculous thread to pump Lebron up to make him seem Jordan like, we wouldn't have a problem. Lebron had a pretty average finals Jr. Once again here you go over rating the guy.