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View Full Version : Who you got: NY or BK?



JasonJohnHorn
07-16-2013, 09:55 AM
With the JJ trade last season, and a healthy Lopez returning, there was much debate last season as to who would be Manhattan's best basketball team. As it turns out, it was the Knicks. They finished with more wins, AND made it to the second round.


This off-season, the Nets have made changes again, bringing in: KG, PP, AK47 and The Jet. On paper, it sounds great, but all those guys are over 35 five save AK47 who is 32. The Burger King Nets, Brooklyn Nets also have a rookie coach leading them. Good, or bad? I dunno....

The Knicks, for their part, loss Kidd (who is now the aforementioned rookie coach) and Camby and Nova, but have add Barngani (affectionately know as Barg-gag-me to Toronto fans) and also Metta World Peace, and the Knicks look to have a healthy Amare on board.


There seems to be a lot of subtraction on the part of the Knicks, and a lot of addition on the part of the Nets. But are these moves for better or worse?


I'm going with the Nets, but who do you think will rule the island next season? Nicks or Knets? (sic)

FYL_McVeezy
07-16-2013, 09:57 AM
Nope, this thread won't be derailed by trolls...:rolleyes:

NYJ - NYY
07-16-2013, 10:01 AM
knicks

koreancabbage
07-16-2013, 10:07 AM
Right now, I would say Brooklyn has the better team on paper. The only thing that could be bad is the inexperience in the head coach Jason Kidd, as much as he is a hall of fame player, we will see how good of a coach he can be - answering his cell phone during a summer league game is not impressing anyone.

Also, team chemistry and the ball movement. IMO I don't think we see the real Nets play until or up to the all-star break. Its a long season - KG, Pierce can't play a ton of minutes like they are used to. Still good players but only in short spurts - esp for the playoffs - you have to keep those two guys fresh.

DanG
07-16-2013, 10:08 AM
Nets in 6.

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 10:12 AM
Nets have the better team on paper, not even going to dispute that.

But we'll see how it goes, look what happened to the Lakers last year.

Nets have a team where a lot can go wrong.

Can Lopez give them 74 games again?

And will KG, Pierce & JJ all continue to play at somewhat high levels? Or do any of those guys fall off a cliff next year? Pierce looked bad in the postseason, so did JJ. They are all at that age where they could really start being injury prone.

I could see them winning 60+ games, but I could also see them being injury riddled.

Knicks got rid of a lot of dead weight on their roster (Camby, Sheed, Kurt, White). They've replaced them with younger, better players like Bargs, Hardaway, & MWP.

They'll have Shump at 100% for the full season, last year even though he played 40 games he clearly wasn't himself til very late in the year. Kmart as well should be here all year.

They should be better, but with other teams getting better as well, they probably will be right around that 54 win mark again.

NYK|NYY
07-16-2013, 10:16 AM
I think the Nets will be regular season heroes and get beat up on in the playoffs. I have have low expectations for the Knicks this year, tbh.

BKLYNpigeon
07-16-2013, 10:24 AM
Nets, they have a more balanced team.

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 10:28 AM
You also have to wonder, who's going to be the role player for BK?

JJ, Pierce, Deron, Brook, KG, Blatche...

all those guys want to score, and only KG really defends well there. there are guys that are going to have to have a huge drop in production and shot attempts.

AK47 helps them there in a big way though.

bootleg42
07-16-2013, 10:28 AM
I'm a Knick fan and I'll say Brooklyn.

The Knicks got themselves a mediocre player in Andrea Bargnani (that was a terrible pick up for my Knicks). They also just got Metta World Peace, but still, I hate the fact that Andrea Bargnani was practically going to be our "big pickup".

Compare that to the Nets getting two big time players (who are ready for their last run), and they got a role player in AK-47 who is better than the Knicks supposed "big time acquisition" Andrea Bargnani.

As of right now, Brooklyn Nets > New York Knicks.

jimm120
07-16-2013, 10:29 AM
A lot of subtraction? The only players we've "lost" that actually played minutes were:

Copland
Novak
Kidd

And Copland/Novak were spotty minutes (as in 10 minutes one game, 15 minutes another game, 0 minutes for 3 games, etc). Kidd is the only one that got consistent minutes and we can all agree that his shooting was just horrendous from January to May. That's a LONG time of sucky shooting and only so-so defense. His passing/ingame coaching were still good, though.

So we technically only gave up 1.5 of production.

We're getting Bargs, who will be a good offensive option.
We're getting Amare back, after him not playing last season practically.
We're getting MWP, who will be an offensive/defensive combo.

Sorry, but...

Kidd/Copland/Novak <<<< Amare/Bargs/MWP

Offense improves because Kidd sucked and Novak couldn't create a shot. Copland was dope, though. Still, Amare/Bargs/MWP all can score. Copland was the only scorer of those 3.

Defense improves. Copland/Novak were horrendous on Defense. Kidd was not that good anymore. This isn't 2011. MWP is good at perimeter defense and Amare can block some shots (still bad at D). Bargs can clog up the lane and is still better defensively than Novak or Copeland.

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 10:31 AM
People are underestimating what Bargs will do for NY.

We desperately needed a stretch 4 last year. And if you put Melo at the 4 it means starting Prigs, Felton & Shump and having a very small lineup.

Taking away those 30 injury hit games last year, the past 4 years Bargs averaged over 18ppg on 45% and people act like he's a trash player.

Lil Rhody
07-16-2013, 10:31 AM
Right now the nets. Hopefully the Knicks make a rondo for amare trade.

PhillyFaninLA
07-16-2013, 10:36 AM
I thought this topic might actually be something of value then I read the poll answers and realize not even the TC cares about the topic they made

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 10:41 AM
On paper, Brooklyn fairly easily. But there is a reason they play the season. Injuries, chemistry, etc, have yet to be determined.

sportsfan222
07-16-2013, 10:46 AM
on paper, brooklyn, but as we know the games are not played on paper.

this knick team has more chemistry, but this net team has more talent. the thing is, can guys like pierce and garnett still play at least 25-30 minutes a game consistently?

i believe these 2 teams will be the 4-5 matchup in the east either way, and it should be a great series. brooklyn vs new york in playoffs, pierce, garnett, and terry vs the knicks, its like celtics knicks again but the nets have a lot more talent.

either way, none of these teams go past the 2nd round, and if they do not matchup vs eachother in 1st round, both exit in 1st round.

Green_Monster
07-16-2013, 10:48 AM
Right now the nets. Hopefully the Knicks make a rondo for amare trade.

:laugh2:

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 11:01 AM
:laugh2:

weren't you the guy saying no way NY could get MWP and that they didn't have any money to sign him?

and that amnestied players get more than NY can offer?

Green_Monster
07-16-2013, 11:10 AM
weren't you the guy saying no way NY could get MWP and that they didn't have any money to sign him?

and that amnestied players get more than NY can offer?

I never said their was no way they could get MWP. I said other teams would be able to offer more money. It's called reading.

Anyway, Rondo for Amare is laughable at best.

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 11:13 AM
I never said their was no way they could get MWP. I said other teams would be able to offer more money. It's called reading.

Anyway, Rondo for Amare is laughable at best.

Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post


Not sure you understand how amnesty works, Lakers still have to pay him $7m.

I can't think of any amnestied player that cleared waivers that DIDN'T take the vet min.

Quote Originally Posted by Green_monster


That's how the Nets get Blatche for the vet min, Knicks got Davis at the vet min two years ago also.
I understand how the amnesty works. Blatche had a horrible year previous to the Nets signing him. Meanwhile, when the Knicks signed Davis, he had a herniated disk in his back, and didn't make his debut until mid February.

Those are completely different situations from this. Good try, good effort.

:rolleyes:

Max.This
07-16-2013, 11:15 AM
I never said their was no way they could get MWP. I said other teams would be able to offer more money. It's called reading.

Anyway, Rondo for Amare is laughable at best.

Yup, but its your fellow celt fan saying it.

Green_Monster
07-16-2013, 11:18 AM
Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post



Quote Originally Posted by Green_monster



:rolleyes:

Wait, what did that prove? That you don't have the ability to correctly quote posts?


Yup, but its your fellow celt fan saying it.

That doesn't mean it's a good trade.

HowFit
07-16-2013, 11:26 AM
Nets for sure...

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 11:31 AM
I see alot of people talking about the Nets injuries but what about NY. They just lost JR to a serious injury and will take some time to get back, Bargs hasn't been healthy in years, and Amare is practically a lock for an injury. Chandler has played through injuries and so has Melo but they missed a bunch of time as well.

The Nets old guys PP and KG missed 5 and 14 games, respectively. Melo and Chandler missed more time than both.

The Nets are better balanced and deeper. I'm going with them.

ManningToTyree
07-16-2013, 11:34 AM
Nets on paper

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 11:37 AM
I see alot of people talking about the Nets injuries but what about NY. They just lost JR to a serious injury and will take some time to get back, Bargs hasn't been healthy in years, and Amare is practically a lock for an injury. Chandler has played through injuries and so has Melo but they missed a bunch of time as well.

The Nets old guys PP and KG missed 5 and 14 games, respectively. Melo and Chandler missed more time than both.

The Nets are better balanced and deeper. I'm going with them.

JR will miss 2 weeks if that.

NY is not counting on Amare in any way, shape or form. Haven't since 2011 really. Anything he gives us is a bonus.

Bargs is 100% healthy now, his injuries weren't really serious.

Chandler & Melo always seem to miss 10-15 games every year, but NY showed they can overcome that last year.

Heck NY was the only 50 win team that had the entire starting lineup each miss 15+ games.

Hopefully NY will have a bit better luck in that regard next year.

Nets were VERY fortunate with injuries last year. No one on that team missed any significant time.

Hawkeye15
07-16-2013, 11:41 AM
I see alot of people talking about the Nets injuries but what about NY. They just lost JR to a serious injury and will take some time to get back, Bargs hasn't been healthy in years, and Amare is practically a lock for an injury. Chandler has played through injuries and so has Melo but they missed a bunch of time as well.

The Nets old guys PP and KG missed 5 and 14 games, respectively. Melo and Chandler missed more time than both.

The Nets are better balanced and deeper. I'm going with them.

both teams have injury concerns at this point.

nyknygnyy09
07-16-2013, 11:50 AM
I see alot of people talking about the Nets injuries but what about NY. They just lost JR to a serious injury and will take some time to get back, Bargs hasn't been healthy in years, and Amare is practically a lock for an injury. Chandler has played through injuries and so has Melo but they missed a bunch of time as well.

The Nets old guys PP and KG missed 5 and 14 games, respectively. Melo and Chandler missed more time than both.

The Nets are better balanced and deeper. I'm going with them.

Doesn't mean 45 year old PP and KG aren't more liable to miss time next season. Don't forget Brook is made of glass too.

Nets have the most balanced starting lineup in the league ATM. It's also extremely old and they lack significant depth outside Jet AK47 (and Blatche?). I could foresee some problems with that because KG and PP can't play 34 MPG anymore.

Still, much as it pains me to say it, Nets get the nod for now.

sixer04fan
07-16-2013, 11:51 AM
Nets

Max.This
07-16-2013, 11:51 AM
Wait, what did that prove? That you don't have the ability to correctly quote posts?



That doesn't mean it's a good trade.

It isnt, and you can't find a knick fan who thinks it is fair. i'm just pointing out that a celt fan said it so knick fans dont get hated on more than they already do

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 11:52 AM
JR will miss 2 weeks if that.

NY is not counting on Amare in any way, shape or form. Haven't since 2011 really. Anything he gives us is a bonus.

Bargs is 100% healthy now, his injuries weren't really serious.

Chandler & Melo always seem to miss 10-15 games every year, but NY showed they can overcome that last year.

Heck NY was the only 50 win team that had the entire starting lineup each miss 15+ games.

Hopefully NY will have a bit better luck in that regard next year.

Nets were VERY fortunate with injuries last year. No one on that team missed any significant time.

JR will be no where near game ready when he comes back so it's going to take some time to get back to game shape as well. It took Shump close to a month plus to get back to 100%.

Say what you want about Bargs being healthy but he's miss significant time the past two years.

I'm not saying the Knicks or Nets are more injury prone than the other it's just that I see alot of people using injuries for the Nets and not the Knicks.

Both have concerns but the Nets are much deeper and can fight off injuries better.

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 11:56 AM
both teams have injury concerns at this point.

Honestly what team doesn't. The Heat are, the Bulls are and so many other teams.

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 12:09 PM
Doesn't mean 45 year old PP and KG aren't more liable to miss time next season. Don't forget Brook is made of glass too.

Nets have the most balanced starting lineup in the league ATM. It's also extremely old and they lack significant depth outside Jet AK47 (and Blatche?). I could foresee some problems with that because KG and PP can't play 34 MPG anymore.

Still, much as it pains me to say it, Nets get the nod for now.

So much wrong with this post. Brook is made of glass? He played more games then your entire starting 5.

They have no depth? Really? They are arguably the deepest team in the league.

They aren't going to be playing 35 MPG, they are crazy deep at the SF and PF spots. (JJ, AK47, Teletovic, Evans, Plumlee, Blatche) can all handle minutes at those positions.

Sure I guess older guys are easily injured more but Pierce was never and guy that was injury prone and proved that last year playing heavy minutes. KG will get plenty of rest with the Nets extremely deep PF rotation.

I'd be much more worried about NYK's lack of front court depth forcing them to play Chandler heavy minutes cause when he's out they have no paint presence at all.

Green_Monster
07-16-2013, 12:15 PM
It isnt, and you can't find a knick fan who thinks it is fair. i'm just pointing out that a celt fan said it so knick fans dont get hated on more than they already do

Fair enough.

NYKnickFanatic
07-16-2013, 12:25 PM
Knicks all day!

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 12:27 PM
JR will be no where near game ready when he comes back so it's going to take some time to get back to game shape as well. It took Shump close to a month plus to get back to 100%.

Say what you want about Bargs being healthy but he's miss significant time the past two years.

I'm not saying the Knicks or Nets are more injury prone than the other it's just that I see alot of people using injuries for the Nets and not the Knicks.

Both have concerns but the Nets are much deeper and can fight off injuries better.

Shump was coming off an ACL though, that's a big difference from what JR has.

Honestly though I don't think JR will be missed, I'd rather see those minutes go to Shump & Hardaway.

JR shouldn't be anything more than a 20-25mpg 6th man, Woody just has a massive hard on for him for some reason.

I don't see how you can say the Nets are much deeper either.

Lopez/Evans
KG/Blatche
Pierce/ak47
JJ/Terry
Deron/Livingston

Chandler/Amare
Bargs/MWP/Kmart
Melo/Hardaway
JR/Shump
Felton/Prigs

Both teams are a good 10-11 deep. Knicks might sign another guy or two but those are the main rotation guys on both teams.

Like I said, Knicks had more injuries than just about any 50 win team last year, and they fought it off just fine, and that was with guys like SHeed, Kurt, Camby & White eating up 4 roster spots.

Nets were very healthy last year, they might not be as lucky this year

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-16-2013, 12:29 PM
I think the Knicks will be the better team in the regular season but if healthy the Nets will make it further in the playoffs.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:08 PM
Wow....Don't know why the Knicks are being under estimated...Again....We match up well against Brooklyn, I predicted how we would match well against Miami before last season, and a team like Indiana and Chicago would be the ones to trouble us....Again it sucks to be right...I see Brooklyn in a bad situation. They got older, plain and simple...Knicks got younger and more athletic. Lets not overlook that Tim Hardaway Jr is one of the more NBA ready rookies. Lets not forget a healthy Amare is still very effective scorer even if its only 20 mpg. Meta and Imans perimeter defense is what is gonna advance the Knicks to the Eastern Conference Finals. As far as Barnarani goes he is gonna be an offensive juggernaut. Lets not overlook the fact Andrea has had nagging injuries past 2 seasons. I predict over 15 ppg. This season for Andrea, and possibly comeback player of the year candidate. It will be a 6-7 game series, but I got the knicks taking brooklyn. Miami will fall from either knicks, nets, bulls, or pacers..basically that is the top 5 teams in east next season and everyone else should just pack it in.

Knicks staring five
Felton PG
Smith SG
Melo SF
Bargs PF
Chandler C

Amare(6th man)
Shumpert
Meta
Hardaway

1-9 we are deep as hell, just need kenyon and aaron brooks to sign, and we could challenge anybody.

Don't forget our perimeter defense cost us that pacers series, everyone overlooks the fact that signing Metta completely improves that aspect and Shumpert being 100% is gonna help as well.

TrueFan420
07-16-2013, 01:11 PM
A lot of subtraction? The only players we've "lost" that actually played minutes were:

Copland
Novak
Kidd

And Copland/Novak were spotty minutes (as in 10 minutes one game, 15 minutes another game, 0 minutes for 3 games, etc). Kidd is the only one that got consistent minutes and we can all agree that his shooting was just horrendous from January to May. That's a LONG time of sucky shooting and only so-so defense. His passing/ingame coaching were still good, though.

So we technically only gave up 1.5 of production.

We're getting Bargs, who will be a good offensive option.
We're getting Amare back, after him not playing last season practically.
We're getting MWP, who will be an offensive/defensive combo.

Sorry, but...

Kidd/Copland/Novak <<<< Amare/Bargs/MWP

Offense improves because Kidd sucked and Novak couldn't create a shot. Copland was dope, though. Still, Amare/Bargs/MWP all can score. Copland was the only scorer of those 3.

Defense improves. Copland/Novak were horrendous on Defense. Kidd was not that good anymore. This isn't 2011. MWP is good at perimeter defense and Amare can block some shots (still bad at D). Bargs can clog up the lane and is still better defensively than Novak or Copeland.
Nice try on putting a positive spin on amare and bargs d but they both are horrid defenders. As far as MWP he isn't the same defender he use to be. He's not quick and is prob a better post defender against a smaller pf that the league has trended to than a quick perimeter player.

Jamiecballer
07-16-2013, 01:12 PM
nets by a wide, wide margin. they were very good last year, and will be a nightmare this year.

the knicks to me are due for a rather large step back to the middle of the pack. bargnani is not going to do well there, and i think they will feel Kidds absense considerably.

RLundi
07-16-2013, 01:15 PM
The Nets should be better but it wouldn't totally surprise me if the Knicks had a better record. I fully expect the Nets to go further in the playoffs though.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:18 PM
Oh so Pierce and Garnett are the same players too...

smith&wesson
07-16-2013, 01:18 PM
crazy how the nets are as big as the Knicks and the clippers are as big as the lakers right now.. if not bigger.

smith&wesson
07-16-2013, 01:21 PM
Oh so Pierce and Garnett are the same players too...

both can still easily serve their purpose. pierce can still score and is still fundamentally solid and kg still brings crazy intensity and defence.. Together they bring leadership..

SportsFanatic10
07-16-2013, 01:21 PM
obviously gotta see how the nets play together and translate their talent to the court. but i think the pieces fit there, and that they will be the better team.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:22 PM
How would missing Kidd be bad, he practically cost us the pacers series, practically shot zero percent from field, and toasted by every one he guarded, the only guy we lost that I will miss is Copland and possibly Martin, other then that signing Aaron Brooks or Telfair would be an improvement over Kidd.

SportsFanatic10
07-16-2013, 01:23 PM
I think the Knicks will be the better team in the regular season but if healthy the Nets will make it further in the playoffs.

i could see this too, with the nets possibly limiting pp and kg during the season to help keep them fresh and healthy for the playoffs.

Greet
07-16-2013, 01:23 PM
Nets match-up well against the Knicks, and have a better overall team. It's pretty easy

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:27 PM
Pierce looks slow and no so crafty nowadays, he gets his points from foul line now. Garnett has a 15 footer offensively and that's it, his defense is serviceable, but these two guys don't scare me, having bargs will force KG and/ or Lopez out of paint, Metta will help neutralize the 3 point line which cost us against the Pacers, again I really think the knicks match up well with Brooklyn.

smith&wesson
07-16-2013, 01:27 PM
Nice try on putting a positive spin on amare and bargs d but they both are horrid defenders. As far as MWP he isn't the same defender he use to be. He's not quick and is prob a better post defender against a smaller pf that the league has trended to than a quick perimeter player.

actually bargnani is a decent man on man defender. It's his help d that sucks. But that won't be much of a problem if he is playing with chandler.

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 01:30 PM
Wow....Don't know why the Knicks are being under estimated...Again....We match up well against Brooklyn, I predicted how we would match well against Miami before last season, and a team like Indiana and Chicago would be the ones to trouble us....Again it sucks to be right...I see Brooklyn in a bad situation. They got older, plain and simple...Knicks got younger and more athletic. Lets not overlook that Tim Hardaway Jr is one of the more NBA ready rookies. Lets not forget a healthy Amare is still very effective scorer even if its only 20 mpg. Meta and Imans perimeter defense is what is gonna advance the Knicks to the Eastern Conference Finals. As far as Barnarani goes he is gonna be an offensive juggernaut. Lets not overlook the fact Andrea has had nagging injuries past 2 seasons. I predict over 15 ppg. This season for Andrea, and possibly comeback player of the year candidate. It will be a 6-7 game series, but I got the knicks taking brooklyn. Miami will fall from either knicks, nets, bulls, or pacers..basically that is the top 5 teams in east next season and everyone else should just pack it in.

Knicks staring five
Felton PG
Smith SG
Melo SF
Bargs PF
Chandler C

Amare(6th man)
Shumpert
Meta
Hardaway

1-9 we are deep as hell, just need kenyon and aaron brooks to sign, and we could challenge anybody.

Don't forget our perimeter defense cost us that pacers series, everyone overlooks the fact that signing Metta completely improves that aspect and Shumpert being 100% is gonna help as well.

If that's your starting 5 then the only guy on your bench that would crack the Nets rotation is Shumpert. Hardaway JR is the most NBA ready? Great but he wouldn't see a minute on the Nets. Plumlee is very NBA ready playing 4 years at Duke and he isn't cracking the rotation either.

I'd easily take Blatche and AK over your next two bench guys in Amare and MWP.

This isn't the Nets of last year. They solidified their 2 weak links in the starting 5 and did a major bench upgrade. You can't seriously think the Knicks have the better bench when you're counting on a rookie and a guy who was good 3 years ago and hasn't been effective since.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:31 PM
I think knicks front office did a good job with limited resources and still managed to help the team get better, and yes the Knicks are a better team right now. They will shock some of you guys this year.

Jamiecballer
07-16-2013, 01:33 PM
How would missing Kidd be bad, he practically cost us the pacers series, practically shot zero percent from field, and toasted by every one he guarded, the only guy we lost that I will miss is Copland and possibly Martin, other then that signing Aaron Brooks or Telfair would be an improvement over Kidd.

i think he was more valuable in that locker room than people realize, and yes this is just opinion.

are you telling me you guys finally got your **** together and played up to your potential and it's coincidence that you had one of the most widely praised leaders in the sport brought on the same year? you might believe that but i don't.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:39 PM
No lets get the facts strait, are so called leader was busted for a DUI within a couple of weeks of signing, great leadership I see. His in effectiveness on the court last 2 months and (playoffs included), cost us. He can be a cheerleader all he wants, but it was Melos MVP caliber season that got this team to win 50 games not kids cheer leading...lets not overlook that Kidd is rookie coach now, he will make many mistakes.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:43 PM
Ok, ak 47 is a superstar now I see, who the hell is Blatche, Amare is better than kirilenko any day of the week, just look at their stats it saids it. On bad knees amare was still scoring, if he just at 75% the Knicks will a tough squad to beat. Besides u basically took players from a team we took out in 6, who are over the hill now.

Federal Reserve
07-16-2013, 01:45 PM
If you're having team problems, I feel bad for you, son. My team has 99 problems, but trading for two old guys with terrible contracts isn't one.

AI
07-16-2013, 01:46 PM
I don't think anyone undervalues what Kidd did in NY last year. He was a calming presence and had a good effect on Melo, J.R. and the others. Guys like Kurt and Sheed also played a part in that.

Jamiecballer
07-16-2013, 01:48 PM
No lets get the facts strait, are so called leader was busted for a DUI within a couple of weeks of signing, great leadership I see. His in effectiveness on the court last 2 months and (playoffs included), cost us. He can be a cheerleader all he wants, but it was Melos MVP caliber season that got this team to win 50 games not kids cheer leading...lets not overlook that Kidd is rookie coach now, he will make many mistakes.

please don't try and reduce my point to something as ridiculous as cheer leading. unless he was busted for illegal activities on the court i don't care much. but you are certainly right about Kidd being a rookie coach. definitely a learning curve to that. his group probably won't require a lot of prodding with so many vets though. he should be alright.

you probably shouldn't worry though. i'm sure the veteran leadership of Carmelo Anthony, Andrea Bargnani and JR Smith will keep things running tight. :p

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:50 PM
Andrea is gonna have a good year, his offensive skill set fits perfect with us...Melo will one on one match ups this year..

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:50 PM
So chandlers leadership is nothing I guess,

skitha67
07-16-2013, 01:53 PM
The game is one by playing effectively on the court...Get off this veteran leadership bs, that is what coaches are for as well, besides Chandler was as much as leader as Kidd was if not more. Kidd hurts us big time with his ineffective play, u can influence all you want but you have to put in your work as well, hence to why he went into coaching.

Jamiecballer
07-16-2013, 01:56 PM
The game is one by playing effectively on the court...Get off this veteran leadership bs, that is what coaches are for as well, besides Chandler was as much as leader as Kidd was if not more. Kidd hurts us big time with his ineffective play, u can influence all you want but you have to put in your work as well, hence to why he went into coaching.

veteran leadership is not the only thing, you are right. performance on the court is huge. but i had an opinion, i expressed it, and you disagreed. you think they will be better i suppose? i think they will be worse.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-16-2013, 01:59 PM
Last year just seemed like "THE" year for the Knicks. Not talking about championship but more so their best shot at it. I think Kidd, Sheed, and Kenyon did a TON to help that team get to where they were last season. They installed a tough mentality and leadership for the likes of Melo and JR. I think without them, they may become a bit out of wack. Their interior defense actually took a drop over the offseason and if they decide to start Bargs, Tyson maybe in a nightmare situation trying to defend the likes of Lopez, Garnett, Hibbert, West, Noah, Boozer, and Bosh.

I'll be looked at as bias when I say the Knicks look in line to take a step back, their team in general just doesn't seem that balanced and they'll have to hope big time for a heathy seasons from a few of their major players. If any one of Amare, Bargs, Metta, or JR get injured or get reinjured I think they'll struggle.

I wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Cavs (if completely healthy) challenged them big time for that 5th seed.

GiantsSwaGG
07-16-2013, 02:03 PM
Nets

JerseyPalahniuk
07-16-2013, 02:03 PM
op loves starting Nets related threads.

not sure if people don't realize that KG and Pierce will indeed have limited minutes. Kidd has repeatedly stated that he will be resting them (specifically KG) for games ala Pop and Duncan.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 02:05 PM
Of course this based on being healthy, but te knicks did do well when their older players missed time, lets see how New Jersey or I ean Brooklyn handles that.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-16-2013, 02:05 PM
op loves starting Nets related threads.

not sure if people don't realize that KG and Pierce will indeed have limited minutes. Kidd has repeatedly stated that he will be resting them (specifically KG) for games ala Pop and Duncan.

And with the acquisition of AK he'll be averageing a lot of minutes filling in for Pierce at the 3 or Garnett at the 4

Nycbball08
07-16-2013, 02:11 PM
Everyone keep talking about on paper. games aren't played on paper, furthermore I'm hoping the Knicks
could pull off another move perhaps a Rondo deal who knows. But I give the Nets the edge right now currently constructed.

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 02:19 PM
Ok, ak 47 is a superstar now I see, who the hell is Blatche, Amare is better than kirilenko any day of the week, just look at their stats it saids it. On bad knees amare was still scoring, if he just at 75% the Knicks will a tough squad to beat. Besides u basically took players from a team we took out in 6, who are over the hill now.


So you don't know who Blatche is and you think cause Amare has better stats then AK he's better. Amare is useless cause he doesn't play. I think you might need to look up who Blatche is before we can continue this conversation. AK was compared to MWP actually and don't even try to compare them cause there is no comparison.

And yes since you brought it up I'd take AK over Amare since his defense is very good compared to that sieve Amare. You still have to play both ends of the floor.

Wow are you really down playing Kidd's contribution to the Knicks last year? He broke down in the end but his IQ and passing did wonders for guys like Melo (who just so happened to have a graet year when Kidd stepped on the floor).

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 02:21 PM
op loves starting Nets related threads.

not sure if people don't realize that KG and Pierce will indeed have limited minutes. Kidd has repeatedly stated that he will be resting them (specifically KG) for games ala Pop and Duncan.

I was thinking the same thing.

MonroeFAN
07-16-2013, 02:34 PM
I'll take Brooklyn.

As for all of this paper talk... neither team has been all that great on the court.

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 02:38 PM
Last year just seemed like "THE" year for the Knicks. Not talking about championship but more so their best shot at it. I think Kidd, Sheed, and Kenyon did a TON to help that team get to where they were last season. They installed a tough mentality and leadership for the likes of Melo and JR. I think without them, they may become a bit out of wack. Their interior defense actually took a drop over the offseason and if they decide to start Bargs, Tyson maybe in a nightmare situation trying to defend the likes of Lopez, Garnett, Hibbert, West, Noah, Boozer, and Bosh.

I'll be looked at as bias when I say the Knicks look in line to take a step back, their team in general just doesn't seem that balanced and they'll have to hope big time for a heathy seasons from a few of their major players. If any one of Amare, Bargs, Metta, or JR get injured or get reinjured I think they'll struggle.

I wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Cavs (if completely healthy) challenged them big time for that 5th seed.

You could just as easily say last year was THE year for the Nets.

They were healthier than just about any east playoff team, got 74 games out of Brook, got to face a completely depleted CHI team as well.

Knicks had a TON go wrong last year with injuries and still won 54 games. Amare was pretty much injured all year, not sure how you can say they'll struggle if he gets injured when they basically won 54 games without him... and without Shump for that matter.

Kidd was a calming presence yes, but Pablo at this point is simple a better player.

jericho
07-16-2013, 02:39 PM
Wow....Don't know why the Knicks are being under estimated...Again....We match up well against Brooklyn, I predicted how we would match well against Miami before last season, and a team like Indiana and Chicago would be the ones to trouble us....Again it sucks to be right...I see Brooklyn in a bad situation. They got older, plain and simple...Knicks got younger and more athletic. Lets not overlook that Tim Hardaway Jr is one of the more NBA ready rookies. Lets not forget a healthy Amare is still very effective scorer even if its only 20 mpg. Meta and Imans perimeter defense is what is gonna advance the Knicks to the Eastern Conference Finals. As far as Barnarani goes he is gonna be an offensive juggernaut. Lets not overlook the fact Andrea has had nagging injuries past 2 seasons. I predict over 15 ppg. This season for Andrea, and possibly comeback player of the year candidate. It will be a 6-7 game series, but I got the knicks taking brooklyn. Miami will fall from either knicks, nets, bulls, or pacers..basically that is the top 5 teams in east next season and everyone else should just pack it in.

Knicks staring five
Felton PG
Smith SG
Melo SF
Bargs PF
Chandler C

Amare(6th man)
Shumpert
Meta
Hardaway

1-9 we are deep as hell, just need kenyon and aaron brooks to sign, and we could challenge anybody.

Don't forget our perimeter defense cost us that pacers series, everyone overlooks the fact that signing Metta completely improves that aspect and Shumpert being 100% is gonna help as well.

There is so much fail with this post. I love my knicks but im not delusional. I do believe we can take down the nets but it will not be easy.

oh btw shumpert is the starter Jr comes from the bench.

kingkenny01
07-16-2013, 02:40 PM
Sitting courtside knicks and nets give me high fives

NJDrew2
07-16-2013, 02:42 PM
Doesn't mean 45 year old PP and KG aren't more liable to miss time next season. Don't forget Brook is made of glass too.

Nets have the most balanced starting lineup in the league ATM. It's also extremely old and they lack significant depth outside Jet AK47 (and Blatche?). I could foresee some problems with that because KG and PP can't play 34 MPG anymore.

Still, much as it pains me to say it, Nets get the nod for now.

"Brook Lopez is made of glass."

Last season he played more games than everyone on the Knicks roster except for Pablo Prigioni and JR Smith. He's younger than everyone on the Knicks roster except Iman Shumpert and any rookies that make their roster. In his first three seasons, he played in every game. He's missed basically all of one season b/c of injury and that's been it.
If Brook Lopez is made of glass, then what does that say about the entire Knicks roster?

Nycbball08
07-16-2013, 02:47 PM
Last year just seemed like "THE" year for the Knicks. Not talking about championship but more so their best shot at it. I think Kidd, Sheed, and Kenyon did a TON to help that team get to where they were last season. They installed a tough mentality and leadership for the likes of Melo and JR. I think without them, they may become a bit out of wack. Their interior defense actually took a drop over the offseason and if they decide to start Bargs, Tyson maybe in a nightmare situation trying to defend the likes of Lopez, Garnett, Hibbert, West, Noah, Boozer, and Bosh.

I'll be looked at as bias when I say the Knicks look in line to take a step back, their team in general just doesn't seem that balanced and they'll have to hope big time for a heathy seasons from a few of their major players. If any one of Amare, Bargs, Metta, or JR get injured or get reinjured I think they'll struggle.

I wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Cavs (if completely healthy) challenged them big time for that 5th seed.
I think your brain is out of whack right now, Sheed hardly played
K Mart was added late in the season, and Kidd's biggest influence
Was in the locker room.

justinnum1
07-16-2013, 02:52 PM
BK easily

Nycbball08
07-16-2013, 02:54 PM
I also give BK the edge on the Heat

GiantsSwaGG
07-16-2013, 03:03 PM
I also give BK the edge on the Heat

This

Nycbball08
07-16-2013, 03:06 PM
This

I was just messing with Justin...

D-Leethal
07-16-2013, 03:36 PM
BK will have more drama than success this season. DWill-Johnson-Pierce is going to be a field day for opposing perimeter play, outside of KG, they have zero interior defense. They are slow at every position across the board with nobody to run with DWill, and they need Johnson and Pierce to somehow be effective all around players when they are only scoring 8-12 points a game off table scraps.

lol, please
07-16-2013, 03:40 PM
:facepalm: BK is in NY, genius. "Who you got, SF or the Fillmore?" lol.....

Who you got? NYK or BKN is a better choice of title, or who you got? Knicks or Nets? or which NY team you got? etc etc

D-Leethal
07-16-2013, 03:41 PM
Has there been a team in NBA history with so many guys who are piss poor at staying in front of their man on defense?

DWill, Johnson, Pierce, Lopez, Evans, Blatche all cannot stay in front of their own shadows. The team defense of KG and the versatility of AK is not going to be enough to compensate for that. The pieces on BK don't fit. Too many guys share the same strengths, too many guys share the same weaknesses.

HouRealCoach
07-16-2013, 03:43 PM
Knicks>>>>Nets

Same deal as last year lol... Nets added three old guys and a coach who gets busted for DUI every offseason. Deron Williams has quit on 2 coaches in 1 year. Joe Johnson hasn't played at an all star level since he got his 100million. Brook Lopez can't rebound.

When Knicks added old guys last year people said we were horrible but Nets just got two guys who couldn't beat the Knicks or get more than a 7 seed in the East but they are supposedly the best team in NY now

D-Leethal
07-16-2013, 03:46 PM
Knicks>>>>Nets

Same deal as last year lol... Nets added three old guys and a coach who gets busted for DUI every offseason. Deron Williams has quit on 2 coaches in 1 year. Joe Johnson hasn't played at an all star level since he got his 100million. Brook Lopez can't rebound.

When Knicks added old guys last year people said we were horrible but Nets just got two guys who couldn't beat the Knicks or get more than a 7 seed in the East but they are supposedly the best team in NY now

There will be drama in BK - you can take that to the bank.

Kidd looked lost and overwhelmed coaching freakin' summer league. Wait til Proky comes breathing down his neck.

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 03:52 PM
BK will have more drama than success this season. DWill-Johnson-Pierce is going to be a field day for opposing perimeter play, outside of KG, they have zero interior defense. They are slow at every position across the board with nobody to run with DWill, and they need Johnson and Pierce to somehow be effective all around players when they are only scoring 8-12 points a game off table scraps.

Haha I can't even take this serious. You have three of the biggest headcases in the league on one team. JR, Melo, and now MWP.

Are you seriously calling out the Nets for interior defense? The knicks interior D is charmin soft not to mention your guys are a terrible rebounding team. WTF are you babbling about.

D-Leethal
07-16-2013, 03:57 PM
Haha I can't even take this serious. You have three of the biggest headcases in the league on one team. JR, Melo, and now MWP.

Are you seriously calling out the Nets for interior defense? The knicks interior D is charmin soft not to mention your guys are a terrible rebounding team. WTF are you babbling about.

I'm not talking drama with headcases. I'm talking drama that stem from championship expectations with a team that isn't going to be ready for it, a rookie coach who looks baffled on the sidelines during summer league, and an owner who is shelling out historical payroll numbers and is going to expect to be the best team in the NBA this year.

We had one of the best defenses in the playoffs last season and we have defenders all over the court at different positions. You guys have two dudes in your entire rotation who can be considered good defenders, and you don't have any athletes at all on the floor. You are slow at every position (nobody outside of AK has any lateral quickness to defend their position), have a PG who thrives in a full court game and a supporting cast who wants to play half court, and a #1 option who wants to post up and take up all the space DWill needs to thrive. Nobody who has ever played off the ball and everybody who is going to need to learn how to do it.

Its not gonna work for a lot of reasons, you can choose to think it will, I'll be here when it doesn't.

John Walls Era
07-16-2013, 04:22 PM
DWill-Johnson-Pierce-KG-Lopez is dangerous no matter how you look at it. They don't have a large window, but theres name power.

John Walls Era
07-16-2013, 04:23 PM
There will be drama in BK - you can take that to the bank.

Kidd looked lost and overwhelmed coaching freakin' summer league. Wait til Proky comes breathing down his neck.

Yup. Im sure Kidd was just breaking down and crying on the sidelines over summer league games....

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-16-2013, 04:39 PM
There will be drama in BK - you can take that to the bank.

Kidd looked lost and overwhelmed coaching freakin' summer league. Wait til Proky comes breathing down his neck.

Are you seriously commenting on what Kidd did in the summer league? You're reaching to say the least.

blahblahyoutoo
07-16-2013, 04:49 PM
the knicks is back.

Nycbball08
07-16-2013, 04:51 PM
I'm glad both teams are relevant again and I'm looking
Forward to some competitive basketball this season.

Lets not crown anyone king of NY till April...
Go knicks.

blahblahyoutoo
07-16-2013, 04:54 PM
Right now, I would say Brooklyn has the better team on paper. The only thing that could be bad is the inexperience in the head coach Jason Kidd, as much as he is a hall of fame player, we will see how good of a coach he can be - answering his cell phone during a summer league game is not impressing anyone.



i'm pretty impressed.
i can barely hear the other end with bballs dribbling in a gym. throw in sneaker squeaking and a crowd and it's a miracle he can have a cell phone conversation.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-16-2013, 04:56 PM
i'm pretty impressed.
i can barely hear the other end with bballs dribbling in a gym. throw in sneaker squeaking and a crowd and it's a miracle he can have a cell phone conversation.

I'm pretty sure that call was Billy King telling him about the AK signing.. but that's just speculation. (The signing was confirmed DURING the game).

He was also not even the main coach for that game. Roy Rodgers was coaching.

blahblahyoutoo
07-16-2013, 04:59 PM
both can still easily serve their purpose. pierce can still score and is still fundamentally solid and kg still brings crazy intensity and defence.. Together they bring leadership..

pierce couldn't hit the side of a barn in the post season.
we'll see if it's a slump or if his career is done.

Rockice_8
07-16-2013, 05:01 PM
I'm not talking drama with headcases. I'm talking drama that stem from championship expectations with a team that isn't going to be ready for it, a rookie coach who looks baffled on the sidelines during summer league, and an owner who is shelling out historical payroll numbers and is going to expect to be the best team in the NBA this year.

We had one of the best defenses in the playoffs last season and we have defenders all over the court at different positions. You guys have two dudes in your entire rotation who can be considered good defenders, and you don't have any athletes at all on the floor. You are slow at every position (nobody outside of AK has any lateral quickness to defend their position), have a PG who thrives in a full court game and a supporting cast who wants to play half court, and a #1 option who wants to post up and take up all the space DWill needs to thrive. Nobody who has ever played off the ball and everybody who is going to need to learn how to do it.

Its not gonna work for a lot of reasons, you can choose to think it will, I'll be here when it doesn't.

No just no. Please enlighten me. I can't wait to hear this.

All these great defenders yet last year the Nets (who had a rollercoaster ride on the defensive end had a better opponent points per shot then the Knicks and a better opponent FG%

Nets
PPS - 1.18
OFG% - .503

Knicks
PPS - 1.23
OFG% - .508

So I think the Nets are better this year on that end so where are all these great defenders you got?

Edit: Not to mention combine that with your poor rebounding.

Here's some defensive win shares from last year
D-Will - 1.8
Felton - 1.7

Melo - 2.2
PP - 3.7

Lopez - 2.6
Chandler - 2.6

AK - 2.6
MWP - 2.6

KG - 3.8
Shump - 1.0 (injured but was 2.5 the year before)

I mean where are all these all world defenders outside of shump who I'll give you?

blahblahyoutoo
07-16-2013, 05:02 PM
lol... got more athletic. by adding who? artest? bargiani?


Wow....Don't know why the Knicks are being under estimated...Again....We match up well against Brooklyn, I predicted how we would match well against Miami before last season, and a team like Indiana and Chicago would be the ones to trouble us....Again it sucks to be right...I see Brooklyn in a bad situation. They got older, plain and simple...Knicks got younger and more athletic. Lets not overlook that Tim Hardaway Jr is one of the more NBA ready rookies. Lets not forget a healthy Amare is still very effective scorer even if its only 20 mpg. Meta and Imans perimeter defense is what is gonna advance the Knicks to the Eastern Conference Finals. As far as Barnarani goes he is gonna be an offensive juggernaut. Lets not overlook the fact Andrea has had nagging injuries past 2 seasons. I predict over 15 ppg. This season for Andrea, and possibly comeback player of the year candidate. It will be a 6-7 game series, but I got the knicks taking brooklyn. Miami will fall from either knicks, nets, bulls, or pacers..basically that is the top 5 teams in east next season and everyone else should just pack it in.

Knicks staring five
Felton PG
Smith SG
Melo SF
Bargs PF
Chandler C

Amare(6th man)
Shumpert
Meta
Hardaway

1-9 we are deep as hell, just need kenyon and aaron brooks to sign, and we could challenge anybody.

Don't forget our perimeter defense cost us that pacers series, everyone overlooks the fact that signing Metta completely improves that aspect and Shumpert being 100% is gonna help as well.

JasonJohnHorn
07-16-2013, 05:11 PM
We're getting Bargs, who will be a good offensive option.

No... no... he will NOT be a good offensive option. Novak was a FAR better shooter.... trust me, as a Raptors fan, I promise you, you will be disappointed.

As for Amare... I hope he returns to his glory days... he was a great player to watch... if that happens, NY will be great.

JasonJohnHorn
07-16-2013, 05:12 PM
People are underestimating what Bargs will do for NY.

Underestimating Bargs? Really? If you were a Toronto fan you would not be saying that. lol

Bostonjorge
07-16-2013, 05:17 PM
Amare hurt's the Knicks when he play's. Knicks just don't know how to use him and the players especially melo don't know how to play with him. Bargs is a down grade from Kenyon Martin. MWP can still guard the 4 position at a high level and shoot open 3's. Amare and bargs are going to hurt the team all the way around. Nets are the better team even as high as 2nd in the east .

skitha67
07-16-2013, 05:38 PM
There is so much fail with this post. I love my knicks but im not delusional. I do believe we can take down the nets but it will not be easy.

oh btw shumpert is the starter Jr comes from the bench.

Jr didn't take a paycut to come off the bench when he can start for 3/4 of NBA teams right now, your insane to think he is coming off the bench. Rumor has it he had a handshake agreement with Woodson to make him a starter or he was bolting. I don't blame him either, that doesn't mean Shumpert won't get his minutes he will obviously get some looks at PG as well, as far being delusional, which part making ECF? Hey we were 2 games short of it, team has improved, and yes Andrea will be effective, is he worth the first round picks, probably not, but he fits perfect on this team as far as his offensive abilities....he is not bad with man defense as a prior poster said, and is right, but I agree his team defense and rebounding is not up to par, but those things can be worked on.

skitha67
07-16-2013, 05:44 PM
Actually Amare was very effective wHen he was on the floor, his knees hold up Knicks will be dangerous, who says Martin wont comeback, its likely he will. Offensively Bargs is not a downgrade. A huge up grade, Martin was good for defense and lil rebounding, but his offense was nearly non existent.. We lost to Indiana becauSe we didn't have a consistent 2nd option to Melo, the though is Andrea may be that, and don't discount Amare he has lots to prove, and he can still score when he wants...

skitha67
07-16-2013, 05:46 PM
No healthy Shumpert and adding hardaway who will see mins, this kid is a freak...

skitha67
07-16-2013, 05:49 PM
Lmao.....Novak is the most one dimensional player I've ever seen, an open three that it...with the exception of Kidds during playoffs I never seen a player so non existent for multiple games at a time than Novak...thank god we unloaded him, I'd take Andrea over Novak any day of the week, Novak never ever came close to averaging 20 a game in his career, but Andrea has....so what is the basis of that remark, he shoots the WIDE open three better....ok but everything else he does blows!!!!

bucketss
07-16-2013, 05:50 PM
Right now the nets. Hopefully the Knicks make a rondo for amare trade.

:eyebrow:

MyDRoseLikeDeng
07-16-2013, 05:53 PM
I cant wait to see this matchup, but right now I get the Knicks barely squeaking by in a 7 game series. You only play with 1 basketball at a time, and individually the Knicks have the best player in Carmelo. Also, the Knicks have Shumpert and now Metta to slow down Williams and Pierce, and Chandler to slow Brook. Melo would need help scoring wise from Amare, JR, and Felton, but I got Knicks in 7

DR_1
07-16-2013, 05:57 PM
As others have said, Nets win on paper, but will the chemistry, coaching, and intangibles be there?

skitha67
07-16-2013, 05:58 PM
That is what I'm trying to say, we match well with Brooklyn, basketball is alot like boxing in this way match ups we have them....Melo is by far best player on the floor when they play, and we already know Meta can stop pierce in his sleep.....D will would be a major match up problem, but the nets are not using him right...who knows that can change cause I assume one thing j Kidd knows would be using D will most effectively..I can't wait for these teams to meet next season. It's gonna one hell of a rivalry next year...

nycericanguy
07-16-2013, 06:04 PM
No... no... he will NOT be a good offensive option. Novak was a FAR better shooter.... trust me, as a Raptors fan, I promise you, you will be disappointed.

As for Amare... I hope he returns to his glory days... he was a great player to watch... if that happens, NY will be great.

If shooting was the only thing in offense Novak would win scoring titles...

Obviously though Novak is nowhere near the offensive player Bargs is.

Novak can shoot, that's it, he can't dribble, can't drive, can't rebound, can't pass, can't get to the FT line. You just get up on him and you can easily shut him down. He has a hard time even getting off a shot against a good defense.

You can't just get up on Bargs, he'll drive passed you, he was starting to get to the line ALOT before last years injury. Bargs can shoot, drive, post and get to the line. Offensively there's not much he can't do.

From 2008-2012 Bargs averaged 18.3ppg.

Now if you ask him to be your starting C AND your #1 option then you will surely be disappointed.

But playing him at PF next to Tyson, spacing the floor for Melo, bringing out opposing big men... I think Bargs will do very well here.

Kashmir13579
07-16-2013, 06:08 PM
Knicks, because Pierce and KG are no longer that relevant. Overrated trade.

Nycbball08
07-16-2013, 06:09 PM
Hey nycericanguy, You forgot can't dunk...lol

D-Leethal
07-16-2013, 06:17 PM
And forgot my personal favorite: Couldn't manage to get a shot off on Jason ****ing Terry.

Teams would throw their worst defender on Novak, no matter what size or shape, tell them to not let him shoot - and bam, Novak is worthless.

If you put your worst defender on Bargs he can make you pay, if you put a guard on Bargs he can make you pay. Its not even a discussion who the better player is between Novak and Bargs.

ohreally
07-16-2013, 06:47 PM
Every years Amare will be back and any new guys the Knicks have make the team way stronger than the schlubs of last year. But the schlubs from last year were the great bench of the summer before.

I seriously doubt that Amare has an impact other than very short term. Bargnani has a lot to prove, and there's nothing much to love about his game, though he was shooting threes pretty well a few years back. To me, he's another volume scorer, so those saying the Nets won't have enough basketballs to go around have to say the same thing about the Knicks. In fact, any negative you can say about the Nets is pretty much ditto for the Knicks.

The Nets and Knicks split last year, and the Nets had no bench last year. Knicks obviously are't done with rounding out the team, but despite the fact that the Nets hired Kidd, a move I don't like in a number of ways, the Nets would have to have very bad luck to lose to the Knicks as the Knicks are constitute now and are likely to be for he season.

SeoulBeatz
07-16-2013, 06:59 PM
I think the Nets will be regular season heroes and get beat up on in the playoffs. I have have low expectations for the Knicks this year, tbh.

I think that goes for both teams TBH. Neither the Knicks or Nets are better than the Heat Pacers or even Bulls with a healthy Rose IMO.

arkanian215
07-16-2013, 07:23 PM
0

Munkeysuit
07-16-2013, 07:26 PM
Not a fan of either team but I'm going to have to go with the Nets...this is definitely the game to watch though.

Knicks21
07-16-2013, 07:41 PM
No just no. Please enlighten me. I can't wait to hear this.

All these great defenders yet last year the Nets (who had a rollercoaster ride on the defensive end had a better opponent points per shot then the Knicks and a better opponent FG%

Nets
PPS - 1.18
OFG% - .503

Knicks
PPS - 1.23
OFG% - .508

So I think the Nets are better this year on that end so where are all these great defenders you got?

Edit: Not to mention combine that with your poor rebounding.

Here's some defensive win shares from last year
D-Will - 1.8
Felton - 1.7

Melo - 2.2
PP - 3.7

Lopez - 2.6
Chandler - 2.6

AK - 2.6
MWP - 2.6

KG - 3.8
Shump - 1.0 (injured but was 2.5 the year before)

I mean where are all these all world defenders outside of shump who I'll give you?

Didnt play for Brooklyn last season, figures need to be adjusted.

Knicks21
07-16-2013, 07:44 PM
Reggie Evans is going to have to get a lot of playing time to make up for the lack of rebounding the starting lineup for the Nets.

Nets > Knicks at this point however.

D-Leethal
07-16-2013, 08:32 PM
No just no. Please enlighten me. I can't wait to hear this.

All these great defenders yet last year the Nets (who had a rollercoaster ride on the defensive end had a better opponent points per shot then the Knicks and a better opponent FG%

Nets
PPS - 1.18
OFG% - .503

Knicks
PPS - 1.23
OFG% - .508

So I think the Nets are better this year on that end so where are all these great defenders you got?

Edit: Not to mention combine that with your poor rebounding.

Here's some defensive win shares from last year
D-Will - 1.8
Felton - 1.7

Melo - 2.2
PP - 3.7

Lopez - 2.6
Chandler - 2.6

AK - 2.6
MWP - 2.6

KG - 3.8
Shump - 1.0 (injured but was 2.5 the year before)

I mean where are all these all world defenders outside of shump who I'll give you?

I mean we have a top defender at the 5 spot, we have a top defender at the 1-2-3 and we have Metta who might not be able to check the quicker guys anymore but is still a top defender at the 3/4 spot. We have athletes all over the court at different positions, guys who are quick and athletic. We have a pick and roll game that completely tore you guys apart last season and probably got us more alley oop lobs in those 4 games than the rest of the season combined.

I understand our defense wasn't that good last season, but that was a product of coasting, and we had a top 5 fourth quarter defense all season long, and we had a great defense in the playoffs. I understand the Knicks were not accomplished as a unit last year, but they had former champs and accomplished vets all over the floor, and all they preached all year was "saving it for the stretch run". Obviously that didn't work out at all like they wanted it to, but thats what they preached, and you saw it during the games and you saw it at the end of the regular season when we finished something like 16-3.

Knicks as a team are going to be shaky defensively, but we have the athletes and the defenders to lock it down when we need to, and to give every one of your offensive stars a ton of problems. You guys couldn't even stop Nate Robinson from doing whatever he wanted down the stretch, and Brook is probably the worst pick and roll defender in the league (with Blatche and Evans not far behind). DWill is one of the worst man-to-man defenders and does not fight through screens well, Joe Johnson cannot stay in front of his man anymore and is lazy closing out the same way a guy like Melo can be, Pierce is smart enough to contribute to team D, but he cannot guard his own shadow anymore.

The 1 and the 5 defending the pick and roll is probably the most crucial part to team defense in today's NBA, and you guys might just have the worst combo out there, combine that with your best perimeter players (who will need to be on the floor at end of games), your running out putrid defenders at 4-5 positions to start/finish games and have the least athletic team in the NBA.

A lot of the same problems BK found themselves in last year are going to look exactly the same, and you better believe Miami is running you guys off the floor with ease and it won't look much different.

D-Leethal
07-16-2013, 08:35 PM
Reggie Evans is going to have to get a lot of playing time to make up for the lack of rebounding the starting lineup for the Nets.

Nets > Knicks at this point however.

Same goes for Kirilenko with their lack of defense/lateral speed/athleticism at the 1-2-3. Maybe he will be able to actually keep Melo under 40 this year.

Jesse2272
07-16-2013, 10:02 PM
Hey nycericanguy, You forgot can't dunk...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuOM7lWZmsY

yes he barely got the top of his head to the bottom of the net but hey

uprightciti
07-16-2013, 10:31 PM
god i hate knicks fans that are knick haters...why the **** are you a fan if you root against your team. **** go be a brooklyn nets fan if you dont think that the knicks would beat the nets!

brooklyn added:
KG
Pierce
Plumlee
AK47
Livinston
Terry

Knicks added
Bargs
Metta
TBJR

and 3 other dudes that you dont know about but soon will like
CJ, Tyler, Etc.

Overall with the Nets roster set they would be considered a better team than the knicks when you consider previous allstars
BUT!
they are the most expensive team ever in basketball
and they have to much talent to run the ball and there average age is now: 29.7
versus
The Knicks who's average age is: 27.4
that in mind and considering what they did last season in winning the atlantic with players like...james white, 40 year old kidd, thomas, camby, wallace and the slumping 1 sided player in Novak
The Know the Ball!
There core is still intact
Felton, Amare, Melo, Shump, JR, Tyson, Pablo and when healthy they can freakin ball

I say overall on paper the nets are a better team
but when all is said and done a Rookie Coach! in Kidd
with all that talent and ONLY ONE BALL!
they will fail
this is a nets team built to beat Chicago and New York
where as the Knicks are a team to Beat the Heat

only time will tell

JasonJohnHorn
07-16-2013, 10:42 PM
From 2008-2012 Bargs averaged 18.3ppg.

Big fish. Little pond.

Don't forget, Mike James averaged over 20 points per game during his time with the Raptors.

Look...I'd like to see NY do well, but Bargs is not the guy to get that done. Sure, there isn't much he can't do on offense, but there isn't much that he does at an All-Star level. He got the ball a lot because he was Toronto's only option and the dumb@$$ GM that drafted him wanted the offense run through him so he didn't look like a tool for drafting a scrub with the first overall pick. And the dude make Brook Lopez look like Dennis Rodman when it comes to rebounding.

AI
07-16-2013, 11:24 PM
Big fish. Little pond.

Don't forget, Mike James averaged over 20 points per game during his time with the Raptors.

Look...I'd like to see NY do well, but Bargs is not the guy to get that done. Sure, there isn't much he can't do on offense, but there isn't much that he does at an All-Star level. He got the ball a lot because he was Toronto's only option and the dumb@$$ GM that drafted him wanted the offense run through him so he didn't look like a tool for drafting a scrub with the first overall pick. And the dude make Brook Lopez look like Dennis Rodman when it comes to rebounding.

Expectations the key word here. We don't need him to be a damn All-Star, just another option that teams have to pay attention to, a good role player/stretch 4. From 2008-12 the guy averaged 18 PPG on 45 FG%. If he can give us 15, we'll gladly take it. He's not expected to be a franchise player here like he was in Toronto, he's just another piece of the puzzle.

SINCESTARBURY25
07-17-2013, 12:36 AM
Knicks just because im a fan.

TheMightyHumph
07-17-2013, 01:21 AM
I've got Brooklyn. Just didn't want Artest to be a Knick because MWP could possibly hurt a Net player

Joker117
07-17-2013, 01:30 AM
Knicks .. I stick up for my team unless they show signs of co Llewelyn falling off then ill admit we need to rebuild still my team but I'm honest ..

We were a solid team who were there with the pacers and almost got the heat ..

Nets look better but even in the nba paper teams can be just that.. I expect them to be good but idk if they truly upgrade as much as believed but pp kills us and KG annoys us ..AK47. His height may bug us too .

bOOyah916
07-17-2013, 01:49 AM
Nets are the favorite for me. You adding 3 champions and AK47 to what they got already, they are a lot better. Bargnani is not gonna make a big impact imo. Melo is gonna have to carry that team again now that JR is gonna be coming back from surgery.

Greet
07-17-2013, 01:58 AM
Knicks .. I stick up for my team unless they show signs of co Llewelyn falling off then ill admit we need to rebuild still my team but I'm honest ..

You can stick up for your team without being overly optimistic.

AI
07-17-2013, 02:35 AM
Nets are the favorite for me. You adding 3 champions and AK47 to what they got already, they are a lot better. Bargnani is not gonna make a big impact imo. Melo is gonna have to carry that team again now that JR is gonna be coming back from surgery.

Yeah, what on earth are the Knicks going to do without Smith for the first 1-2 weeks?

Season is doomed, doomed I tell you.

Joker117
07-17-2013, 02:40 AM
Yeah, what on earth are the Knicks going to do without Smith for the first 1-2 weeks?

Season is doomed, doomed I tell you.

Hahaha yup we should just call it in now and tank let everyone rest a year to keep the wear and tear off them lol

Joker117
07-17-2013, 02:44 AM
You can stick up for your team without being overly optimistic.

I didnt type co Llewelyn or whatever idk how that popped up at all lol. Anyway. Ya I know but I'm not I am being fair .. We almost had the one seed in the east and almost beat the pacers who almost beat the heat and we did good with the heat ..

Honestly the nets got older and needed to upgrade .. We needed a few upgrades depth wise and could use a better pg but were not that bad just need to stay healthy (just like my giants lol ) ..

bOOyah916
07-17-2013, 03:19 AM
Yeah, what on earth are the Knicks going to do without Smith for the first 1-2 weeks?

Season is doomed, doomed I tell you.

when do you expect JR to regain his form? right away?

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-17-2013, 03:26 AM
when do you expect JR to regain his form? right away?

Knicks uniforms have special powers. Duh.

Greet
07-17-2013, 03:26 AM
I didnt type co Llewelyn or whatever idk how that popped up at all lol. Anyway. Ya I know but I'm not I am being fair .. We almost had the one seed in the east and almost beat the pacers who almost beat the heat and we did good with the heat ..

Honestly the nets got older and needed to upgrade .. We needed a few upgrades depth wise and could use a better pg but were not that bad just need to stay healthy (just like my giants lol ) ..

Yeah but the Nets are now one of the deepest teams in the league, and it's a lot of talent.

Crackadalic
07-17-2013, 04:10 AM
Brooklyn on paper but they have a higher chance of it imploding. Inexperience coach. Can KG play better at pf again since he's best play at center. What style of basketball are they gonna play? They play better when Williams run but they don't have the personal for that.

Knicks don't have as many question marks. Bargs despite his contract was brought In as a role player. Peace is here to play tough D and anything from amare is just icing since we won 54 games without him playing most of the season. We already have an identity and chemistry

There's more I want to write but it's 4 am already

Knicks21
07-17-2013, 05:03 AM
when do you expect JR to regain his form? right away?

When its needed most... ie. the playoffs.

NYKalltheway
07-17-2013, 05:14 AM
I think the Nets will be regular season heroes and get beat up on in the playoffs. I have have low expectations for the Knicks this year, tbh.


I think it's gonna be the opposite.

Knicks will thrive in the RS once again and collapse in the 2nd round of playoffs.
Nets will barely make playoffs (due to injuries or lack of chemistry) but could get a shot at the ECF.

Don't underrate the Nets.

krisxsong
07-17-2013, 05:53 AM
Nets have the better team on paper, not even going to dispute that.

But we'll see how it goes, look what happened to the Lakers last year.

Nets have a team where a lot can go wrong.

Can Lopez give them 74 games again?

And will KG, Pierce & JJ all continue to play at somewhat high levels? Or do any of those guys fall off a cliff next year? Pierce looked bad in the postseason, so did JJ. They are all at that age where they could really start being injury prone.

I could see them winning 60+ games, but I could also see them being injury riddled.

Knicks got rid of a lot of dead weight on their roster (Camby, Sheed, Kurt, White). They've replaced them with younger, better players like Bargs, Hardaway, & MWP.

They'll have Shump at 100% for the full season, last year even though he played 40 games he clearly wasn't himself til very late in the year. Kmart as well should be here all year.

They should be better, but with other teams getting better as well, they probably will be right around that 54 win mark again.

I don't care if you say the Knicks are better or what not, but your reasoning are ridiculous.

The Lakers? So because one team built a super team, ALL super teams are doomed? The Lakers were in a VERY different situation. Terrible coach, ball hog star, point guard that requires ball to run offense, injured big man, two disinterested big men which was the strength of the team.

Why do people act like Lopez is injury prone? First 3 years he plays in all 82 games. Two years ago he breaks his foot and plays in only 7 games. Now he's labeled as injury prone. I don't get it.

JJ was terrible in the playoffs, yeah usually when a guy has plantar fascitis he's gonna play pretty poorly.

KG Pierce and JJ don't need to contribute at high levels, just at moderate levels. What they did last year was fine. KG and Pierce space the floor so much better than Evans and Wallace do. Lopez will no longer see double or triple teams only to have the options of forcing a shot or throwing it to Wallace or Evans.

Hardaway is not proven, so I'm not ready to say if he's gonna help improve the team. MWP is terrible, I don't get why KNicks fans think he's the savior and makes them better than Brooklyn. He would be our 3rd string SF.

Kmart is nothing more than dead weight as well. Yeah he played decent defense in spurts last year as well but he can't do much more than try to physically intimidate his opponent.

krisxsong
07-17-2013, 05:54 AM
Anybody that says the Nets will get killed in the playoffs is stupid. In the playoffs, that's where you run half court offenses and that's the strength of this team.

Unless DWILL or Lopez get injured, this team will do damage.

Knicks21
07-17-2013, 06:06 AM
Anybody that says the Nets will get killed in the playoffs is stupid. In the playoffs, that's where you run half court offenses and that's the strength of this team.

Unless DWILL or Lopez get injured, this team will do damage.

Knicks said that last year... turned out well.

And quick to pull the trigger too, wait and see how it plays out and don't be like half this forum and make presumptions into the future.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 08:35 AM
Knicks said that last year... turned out well.

And quick to pull the trigger too, wait and see how it plays out and don't be like half this forum and make presumptions into the future.

The had one go to guy (Melo) and their second scorer (JR) couldn't hit the side of a barn. They were a 3pt shooting team with no inside presence and went cold. That was why they failed.

c.c.
07-17-2013, 08:49 AM
The ROCKETS (I just felt like trolling) but seriously I think the Nets will better than the Knickerbockers

todu82
07-17-2013, 09:16 AM
Still got the Knicks.

GiantsSwaGG
07-17-2013, 10:39 AM
Anybody that says the Nets will get killed in the playoffs is stupid. In the playoffs, that's where you run half court offenses and that's the strength of this team.

Unless DWILL or Lopez get injured, this team will do damage.

You do realize D Will quits on coaches

Joe Johnson has gotten worse every year after he signed his contract. I mean JR freaking Smith had a better season easily

Pierce sucked in the playoffs but I still think he has one good year left in him

KG although he can still contribute on defense, he's on the downside of his career and was battling injuries last year.

Brook offensively improved, but he still can't rebound to save his life and his defense is below average.

Livingston, Blatche and Terry isn't that good of a bench

But with that being said on paper they're better than the nets but an injury can all change that brah

AI
07-17-2013, 01:53 PM
The had one go to guy (Melo) and their second scorer (JR) couldn't hit the side of a barn. They were a 3pt shooting team with no inside presence and went cold. That was why they failed.

Yeah, it's not like Melo playing with a torn labrum and JR with a patella/meniscus injury that required surgery. That had nothing to do with it.

Greet
07-17-2013, 02:08 PM
You do realize D Will quits on coaches

Joe Johnson has gotten worse every year after he signed his contract. I mean JR freaking Smith had a better season easily

Pierce sucked in the playoffs but I still think he has one good year left in him

KG although he can still contribute on defense, he's on the downside of his career and was battling injuries last year.

Brook offensively improved, but he still can't rebound to save his life and his defense is below average.

Livingston, Blatche and Terry isn't that good of a bench

But with that being said on paper they're better than the nets but an injury can all change that brah

I'm not even going to respond to the part about D-Will quitting on coaches. That's ridiculously overplayed. Read: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/nets/2013/06/what-really-happened-between-deron-williams-and-jerry-sloan

Now onto your actually post.....

Joe Johnson had a better season than J.R. Smith, quite easily.

Pierce did not play in the playoffs, that is correct. But it's because he literally had to carry the whole load of the team for a good chunk of every game. Boston's offense outside of Pierce was terrible at times.

KG had a great year last year, and there aren't really any signs showing that he is going to decline massively...like you may suggest.

Brook Lopez averaged 1 less RPG than Marc Gasol, in 5 less minutes per-game. But people don't knock Marc for his rebounding? Also Brook's defense has much improved, and playing with Kevin Garnett is only going to help.

Terry-Blatche-AK47-Livingston-Evans is probably one of the best benches in the NBA my friend

TheIlladelph16
07-17-2013, 02:27 PM
I'm just gonna sit back and watch this ****show unfold over the next 12 months and laugh so hard. Both sides are going to spend the entire season in some knock-down, inner city rivalry thing making ridiculous, overhyped predictions. I can't wait for it haha

Personally, I think that Nets team is going to implode horribly in their face. I'd feel bad for Nets fans, but imo Prok just torpedoed any chance your team has to compete consistently moving forward. He brought in a freshman HC who has never coached on any professional level and half of Boston's AARP squad. It's a recipe to implode directly in their face ala the Lakers last season.

I don't think the Knicks are going anywhere either, but at least the core of that team has developed chemistry already.

Greet
07-17-2013, 02:38 PM
Like I have pointed out COUNTLESS times. The Lakers situation is COMPLETELY different than the Nets.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 02:50 PM
I think it's gonna be the opposite.

Knicks will thrive in the RS once again and collapse in the 2nd round of playoffs.
Nets will barely make playoffs (due to injuries or lack of chemistry) but could get a shot at the ECF.

Don't underrate the Nets.

:drunk:

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 02:58 PM
Yeah, it's not like Melo playing with a torn labrum and JR with a patella/meniscus injury that required surgery. That had nothing to do with it.


They failed cause they didn't have a post threat and were a team of jump shooters"who get injured and couldn't hit crap"

There is that better.

Injured or not they are still a team full of jump shooters with no paint presence on either side of the ball. Which again will be their ultimate downfall again. Injured or not.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 02:59 PM
I don't care if you say the Knicks are better or what not, but your reasoning are ridiculous.

The Lakers? So because one team built a super team, ALL super teams are doomed? The Lakers were in a VERY different situation. Terrible coach, ball hog star, point guard that requires ball to run offense, injured big man, two disinterested big men which was the strength of the team.

Why do people act like Lopez is injury prone? First 3 years he plays in all 82 games. Two years ago he breaks his foot and plays in only 7 games. Now he's labeled as injury prone. I don't get it.

JJ was terrible in the playoffs, yeah usually when a guy has plantar fascitis he's gonna play pretty poorly.

KG Pierce and JJ don't need to contribute at high levels, just at moderate levels. What they did last year was fine. KG and Pierce space the floor so much better than Evans and Wallace do. Lopez will no longer see double or triple teams only to have the options of forcing a shot or throwing it to Wallace or Evans.

Hardaway is not proven, so I'm not ready to say if he's gonna help improve the team. MWP is terrible, I don't get why KNicks fans think he's the savior and makes them better than Brooklyn. He would be our 3rd string SF.

Kmart is nothing more than dead weight as well. Yeah he played decent defense in spurts last year as well but he can't do much more than try to physically intimidate his opponent.

The Nets situation isn't that different from the Lakers. They actually do share some of the same problems as them that you listed. They have a completely unproven coach, a pg who needs the ball to be effective, and I remember hearing that Lopez was having another surgery this offseason, thats not good.

Your JJ argument is funny, because it had nothing to do with the plantar fasciitis, he is a notorious underachiever in the playoffs. Many people on this site tried to tell you Nets fans that but you didnt want to hear it.

Your comments on Knicks players lack insight because MWP lead the Lakers in +/- last year and Martin was solid on offense as well. You say Metta would be your 3rd PF, I would play him over AK anyday because he brings things to the team that AK will never be able to.

I get why you're defensive, because you realize there's a possibility that you're wrong, but don't just start spouting stuff off before thinking twice about it.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 03:00 PM
They failed cause they didn't have a post threat and were a team of jump shooters"who get injured and couldn't hit crap"

There is that better.

Injured or not they are still a team full of jump shooters with no paint presence on either side of the ball. Which again will be their ultimate downfall again. Injured or not.

So what happened to the Nets in the first round?

Lil Rhody
07-17-2013, 03:02 PM
Right now the nets. Hopefully the Knicks make a rondo for amare trade.

:laugh2:


Ha to you sir. Just trying to pawn him off to any team.

albertajaysfan
07-17-2013, 03:07 PM
As it currently stands, Nets rather easily I believe.

Injuries will be the true determining factor however.

AI
07-17-2013, 03:18 PM
They failed cause they didn't have a post threat and were a team of jump shooters"who get injured and couldn't hit crap"

There is that better.

Injured or not they are still a team full of jump shooters with no paint presence on either side of the ball. Which again will be their ultimate downfall again. Injured or not.

The fact that you think that you need a post threat to beat Indiana shows just how little you know. Knicks were 2 minutes away from forcing a game 7 at home with the 3 core players all battling injuries.

Why'd the Heat have such good success against IND? They had a good stretch 4 in Bosh who sucked Hibbert/West out of the paint. Knicks just got Bargnani, nobody is expecting him to be or produce like Bosh, who they hope can replicate that same role of a stretch 4.

This year Knicks don't have to go small, with Melo at the 4, to have a stretch 4. They'll have two legitimate 7 footers at the 4/5 plus a much bigger overall lineup at the 2/3 which should improve the overall team rebounding. Their defense wasn't their downfall against Indiana, they played great defense against them.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 03:21 PM
The Nets situation isn't that different from the Lakers. They actually do share some of the same problems as them that you listed. They have a completely unproven coach, a pg who needs the ball to be effective, and I remember hearing that Lopez was having another surgery this offseason, thats not good.

Your JJ argument is funny, because it had nothing to do with the plantar fasciitis, he is a notorious underachiever in the playoffs. Many people on this site tried to tell you Nets fans that but you didnt want to hear it.

Your comments on Knicks players lack insight because MWP lead the Lakers in +/- last year and Martin was solid on offense as well. You say Metta would be your 3rd PF, I would play him over AK anyday because he brings things to the team that AK will never be able to.

I get why you're defensive, because you realize there's a possibility that you're wrong, but don't just start spouting stuff off before thinking twice about it.

The things I highlighted are completely and utter nonsense. D-Will needs the ball to be effective? He played off the ball alot last year actually.

JJ was injured and was affected by the injury. Just cause a guy has a poor history in the playoffs doesn't set anything in stone see Lebron who struggled in the playoffs until recently and a guy like A-Rod who was downright awful in the playoffs before carrying the Yanks in their last championship run so things can change. Especially considering he's no longer the focal point like he was on those Hawks playoffs teams.

As for that last thing about playing MWP over AK. That is just a flat out dumb comment. Like one of the dumbest I've seen in some time. Give yourself a pat on the back for that one.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 03:28 PM
The fact that you think that you need a post threat to beat Indiana shows just how little you know. Knicks were 2 minutes away from forcing a game 7 at home with the 3 core players all battling injuries.

Why'd the Heat have such good success against IND? They had a good stretch 4 in Bosh who sucked Hibbert/West out of the paint. Knicks just got Bargnani, nobody is expecting him to be or produce like Bosh, who they hope can replicate that same role of a stretch 4.

This year Knicks don't have to go small, with Melo at the 4, to have a stretch 4. They'll have two legitimate 7 footers at the 4/5 plus a much bigger overall lineup at the 2/3 which should improve the overall team rebounding. Their defense wasn't their downfall against Indiana, they played great defense against them.

Ok lets try to explain this a little more clearly. Other than the Heat who are the exception to the rule cause they have a allstar wing lineup what does every championship team need. Answer a post presence you can dump it down to that can draw double teams and get easy shots for himself or others.

I wasn't talking about the defensive end I was talking about offensively. Taking long jumpers will is not a recipe for success and that's exactly what the Knicks are still jump shooters.

Say what you want about your defense but it wasn't that good last year and you still have no rim protectors. Enjoy those two 7 footers, one of which is allergic to the paint.

Edit: The Pacers dominated you on the glass that's why you lost.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 03:33 PM
The things I highlighted are completely and utter nonsense. D-Will needs the ball to be effective? He played off the ball alot last year actually.

JJ was injured and was affected by the injury. Just cause a guy has a poor history in the playoffs doesn't set anything in stone see Lebron who struggled in the playoffs until recently and a guy like A-Rod who was downright awful in the playoffs before carrying the Yanks in their last championship run so things can change. Especially considering he's no longer the focal point like he was on those Hawks playoffs teams.

As for that last thing about playing MWP over AK. That is just a flat out dumb comment. Like one of the dumbest I've seen in some time. Give yourself a pat on the back for that one.

It's not nonsense. MWP is tougher and more physical than AK, he's also a better outside shooter. AK is not just flat out better than MWP at everything pal, hate to break it to you. There are actually very few things he is hands down better at.

Your second paragraph is nonsense.

You are seriously making the argument about other players, even in other sports who had years that were not in line with career production. JJ is not Lebron or ARod great. There's no reason to think that at 32, or 33, or whatever he'll be this year that something will finally click. He has been producing at the same level in the playoffs his whole career. To say that the one year he was injured, it was the injuries fault? :laugh2: That is delusional. This is literally the worst argument I have ever seen on PSD, that really is something worthy of congrats.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 03:37 PM
Ok lets try to explain this a little more clearly. Other than the Heat who are the exception to the rule cause they have a allstar wing lineup what does every championship team need. Answer a post presence you can dump it down to that can draw double teams and get easy shots for himself or others.

I wasn't talking about the defensive end I was talking about offensively. Taking long jumpers will is not a recipe for success and that's exactly what the Knicks are still jump shooters.

Say what you want about your defense but it wasn't that good last year and you still have no rim protectors. Enjoy those two 7 footers, one of which is allergic to the paint.

Edit: The Pacers dominated you on the glass that's why you lost.

Your argument to start off this post was laughable. You need to reconsider how you present your points, at the very least. The Bulls teams never had that, the Mavericks didnt have that and the Pistons didnt have it either.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-17-2013, 03:44 PM
And you wonder why people hate on the Knicks and their fans. This thread is full of delusional posts. Especially how much the majority of you underrate AK and act as though MWP and Bargs are just these offseason steals.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 03:48 PM
And you wonder why people hate on the Knicks and their fans. This thread is full of delusional posts. Especially how much the majority of you underrate AK and act as though MWP and Bargs are just these offseason steals.

MWP and AK are pretty much equals. There are arguments for both players. You would think AK was Petrovic the way some are talking about him. To be fair, they both have been steals at the prices we have paid.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-17-2013, 03:51 PM
MWP and AK are pretty much equals. There are arguments for both players. You would think AK was Petrovic the way some are talking about him.

Equals?? There is absolutely no way you watched both play last season. Ask T'Wolves fans and Lakers fans, one (AK) looked like his old self and was extremely efficient and the other (Metta) chucked the 3 ball consistently and didnt have the ability to play his normal style of defense that he was able to bring 2 years or so ago.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 03:53 PM
Equals?? There is absolutely no way you watched both play last season. Ask T'Wolves fans and Lakers fans, one (AK) looked like his old self and was extremely efficient and the other (Metta) chucked the 3 ball consistently and didnt have the ability to play his normal style of defense that he was able to bring 2 years or so ago.

which is why MWP had the highest +/- on the Lakers last year. Sure :rolleyes:

AK is more efficient overall, but MWP is the better outside shooter.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 03:54 PM
It's not nonsense. MWP is tougher and more physical than AK, he's also a better outside shooter. AK is not just flat out better than MWP at everything pal, hate to break it to you. There are actually very few things he is hands down better at.

Your second paragraph is nonsense.

You are seriously making the argument about other players, even in other sports who had years that were not in line with career production. JJ is not Lebron or ARod great. There's no reason to think that at 32, or 33, or whatever he'll be this year that something will finally click. He has been producing at the same level in the playoffs his whole career. To say that the one year he was injured, it was the injuries fault? :laugh2: That is delusional. This is literally the worst argument I have ever seen on PSD, that really is something worthy of congrats.

AK is so much better then Metta it's not even funny. 3pt shooting you got me there but please elaborate. Rebounding? NO. Passing? No. EFF? No. Defense? They are close but AK's shot blocking and length are much better. I mean where is he better? Is it his 40% FG. Sure Metta is a better 3 pt shoot but AK is far better on offense still.

You have no argument at all as to why MWP is better than AK so just stop you look dumb.

OK those team didn't either but again they are the minority. The Bulls had the best player ever, one of the best rebounders in Rodman, and oh just another top 50 player in Pippen. The Pistons were a complete team that had SHeed who most certainly could post up so not sure how you forgot him. He was a fantastic post player. Not to mention they played top notch D and rebounded well something the Knicks don't do.

Mavs were a fluke. They got MIA in their first year and got lucky. Again an exception to the rule not the rule.

Right JJ will always be a bad playoff performer cause the one time he wasn't the focal point he as injured. Moving down from the number 1 option to the third was supposed to help but he got injured guess we'll have to wait until this year to find out if that helps him. I guess that sucks for JR. He was downright awful last year. Guess thats the norm. But your fellow Knicks fan wants to use his injury as an excuse.

Right so you got Bargs who was a terrible #1 option but now he's great cause he's not the focal point. Isn't that the exact argument I just made for Joe but it only holds true for Bargs and not Johnson, got it. I just wanted to be clear.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 03:58 PM
AK is so much better then Metta it's not even funny. 3pt shooting you got me there but please elaborate. Rebounding? NO. Passing? No. EFF? No. Defense? They are close but AK's shot blocking and length are much better. I mean where is he better? Is it his 40% FG. Sure Metta is a better 3 pt shoot but AK is far better on offense still.

You have no argument at all as to why MWP is better than AK so just stop you look dumb.

OK those team didn't either but again they are the minority. The Bulls had the best player ever, one of the best rebounders in Rodman, and oh just another top 50 player in Pippen. The Pistons were a complete team that had SHeed who most certainly could post up so not sure how you forgot him. He was a fantastic post player. Not to mention they played top notch D and rebounded well something the Knicks don't do.

Mavs were a fluke. They got MIA in their first year and got lucky. Again an exception to the rule not the rule.

Right JJ will always be a bad playoff performer cause the one time he wasn't the focal point he as injured. I guess that sucks for JR. He was downright awful last year. Guess thats the norm.

I didnt say he was better. You need to get it together pal.

As soon as I show you you are wrong it's all "but, but, but..." just gtfo.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:02 PM
The Nets situation isn't that different from the Lakers. They actually do share some of the same problems as them that you listed. They have a completely unproven coach, a pg who needs the ball to be effective, and I remember hearing that Lopez was having another surgery this offseason, thats not good.

Your JJ argument is funny, because it had nothing to do with the plantar fasciitis, he is a notorious underachiever in the playoffs. Many people on this site tried to tell you Nets fans that but you didnt want to hear it.

Your comments on Knicks players lack insight because MWP lead the Lakers in +/- last year and Martin was solid on offense as well. You say Metta would be your 3rd PF, I would play him over AK anyday because he brings things to the team that AK will never be able to.

I get why you're defensive, because you realize there's a possibility that you're wrong, but don't just start spouting stuff off before thinking twice about it.

OK you never said he was better but you would play him over the better guy. Good idea.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 04:02 PM
OK you never said he was better but you would play him over the better guy. Good idea.

intangibles.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:02 PM
I didnt say he was better. You need to get it together pal.

As soon as I show you you are wrong it's all "but, but, but..." just gtfo.

I must have missed that part.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:04 PM
intangibles.

I have yet to hear of one that AK doesn't bring. Is it his ability to run into the stands and fight spectators?

I mean it's time to elaborate or GTFO as you like to say.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 04:04 PM
I must have missed that part.

You know when you said the heat are the exception but every championship team has a post presence and I named about 9 teams (yes every year counts for the Bulls) that didn't have one and still won.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 04:06 PM
I have yet to hear of one that AK doesn't bring. Is it his ability to run into the stands and fight spectators?

I mean it's time to elaborate or GTFO as you like to say.

No, i already named some of them in a previous post. You're completely irrational in your debating so I'm just going to refer you to previous posts since it appears you are just too worked up to comprehend things you read.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:11 PM
You know when you said the heat are the exception but every championship team has a post presence and I named about 9 teams (yes every year counts for the Bulls) that didn't have one and still won.

The Knicks aren't those Bulls teams so stop comparing them to an all time great team.

Look no further than last year. What did the last four team have all in common SA had Duncan, MEM had Gasol and Randolph, INDY had West and Hibbert (who isn't that great but is at defending the paint.

Again showing me a few examples where teams didn't have post guys are few and far between unless you are the all time great Bulls and Heat teams. The pistons had one so you bringing them up is wrong.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:17 PM
No, i already named some of them in a previous post. You're completely irrational in your debating so I'm just going to refer you to previous posts since it appears you are just too worked up to comprehend things you read.

You're right I missed tougher and more physical. Man you got me there. Yep Metta is better your right. I guess the actual stats and numbers don't mean anything.

True shooting %, rebound %, PER, Win shares, etc. None of that means anything to you does it. I guess I should have said AK is taller maybe that resonates more with your IQ.

I'm irrational when using actual facts and stats but you have the solid argument cause he's tougher and you found a few random exceptions to a pretty well known fact that actual NBA fans know to be true.

Got it I'll try to go with your rational next time.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 04:17 PM
The Knicks aren't those Bulls teams so stop comparing them to an all time great team.

Look no further than last year. What did the last four team have all in common SA had Duncan, MEM had Gasol and Randolph, INDY had West and Hibbert (who isn't that great but is at defending the paint.

Again showing me a few examples where teams didn't have post guys are few and far between unless you are the all time great Bulls and Heat teams. The pistons had one so you bringing them up is wrong.

I didn't say anything about the Knicks, its about correcting your incorrect interpretation of history. Like I said, you are irrational.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 04:18 PM
You're right I missed tougher and more physical. Man you got me there. Yep Metta is better your right. I guess the actual stats and numbers don't mean anything.

I'm irrational when using actual facts and stats but you have the solid argument cause he's tougher and you found a few random exceptions to a pretty well known fact that actual NBA fans know to be true.

Got it I'll try to go with your rational next time.

Again, I never said he was better than AK, you are again proving to be irrational. MWP has also played on teams that actually had postseason success also, so you can add tat. You havent provided facts that I also havent acknowledged.

In fact it is you who decides to ignore facts about JJ's career postseason production in favor of believing that it was all because of his foot. Wishful thinking at its finest.

KniCks4LiFe
07-17-2013, 04:22 PM
I'll go by paper cuz that's all we have right now. Either team could have health issues. Unfortunately The Nets have the better roster. Their scrub in their starting line up is Joe Johnson. Their scrub in their bench is Reggie Evans. That's how scary built that team is.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:25 PM
I didn't say anything about the Knicks, its about correcting your incorrect interpretation of history. Like I said, you are irrational.

This is about the Knicks and Nets you didn't have to say anything about them. The Knicks aren't comparable to those all time great teams that lacked the post paint presence the Knicks do so again. Just as this all started the Knicks downfall will be their lack of a paint presence just like last year they will live and die by the jump shot.

Irrational? Not in the slightest. Actually my arguments are full of logic and reason cause they use stats and evidence. Not words like tough and physical.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 04:27 PM
This is about the Knicks and Nets you didn't have to say anything about them. The Knicks aren't comparable to those all time great teams that lacked the post paint presence the Knicks do so again. Just as this all started the Knicks downfall will be their lack of a paint presence just like last year they will live and die by the jump shot.

Irrational? Not in the slightest. Actually my arguments are full of logic and reason cause they use stats and evidence. Not words like tough and physical.

Dude, you are so far gone, it's not even worth trying to explain again.

Just for kicks. Other than an effeciency stat give me one stat that proves AK is hands down better than MWP.


You can't because that is the only stat you ever used this whole time.

GiantsSwaGG
07-17-2013, 04:28 PM
And you wonder why people hate on the Knicks and their fans. This thread is full of delusional posts. Especially how much the majority of you underrate AK and act as though MWP and Bargs are just these offseason steals.

Same was said about Nets fans

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:30 PM
Again, I never said he was better than AK, you are again proving to be irrational. MWP has also played on teams that actually had postseason success also, so you can add tat. You havent provided facts that I also havent acknowledged.

In fact it is you who decides to ignore facts about JJ's career postseason production in favor of believing that it was all because of his foot. Wishful thinking at its finest.

AK has been to the WCF and multiple playoffs. He's plenty competent in that regard. Just cause he doesn't have a ring doesn't matter.

You have yet to address my comments that AK is far superior in actual statistical categories but that's cool stick to your argument.

JordansBulls
07-17-2013, 04:35 PM
Tough to say because are the Knicks planning on starting Metta or Amare this season at PF?

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:39 PM
Dude, you are so far gone, it's not even worth trying to explain again.

Just for kicks. Other than an effeciency stat give me one stat that proves AK is hands down better than MWP.


You can't because that is the only stat you ever used this whole time.


Ok after I do this you need to stop posting, deal?

PER
AK - 17.6
MWP - 12.5

True Shooting %
AK - .59
MWP - .51

Effective FG %
AK - .54
MWP - .49

Total Rebound %
AK - 10.2
MWP -8.1

Assist %
AK - 14.4
MWP - 6.9

Steal %
AK - 2.4
MWP - 2.5

Block %
AK - 2.4
MWP - 1.2

Offensive Rating
AK - 113
MWP -105

Defensive Rating
AK - 104
MWP -106

Win shares
AK - 6.0
MWP - 4.6

See the difference between facts and things like tough and physical. One would be considered "irrational" the other factual. I hope this helps.

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 04:40 PM
Ok after I do this you need to stop posting, deal?

PER
AK - 17.6
MWP - 12.5

True Shooting %
AK - .59
MWP - .51

Effective FG %
AK - .54
MWP - .49

Total Rebound %
AK - 10.2
MWP -8.1

Assist %
AK - 14.4
MWP - 6.9

Steal %
AK - 2.4
MWP - 2.5

Block %
AK - 2.4
MWP - 1.2

Offensive Rating
AK - 113
MWP -105

Defensive Rating
AK - 104
MWP -106

Win shares
AK - 6.0
MWP - 4.6

See the difference between facts and things like tough and physical. One would be considered "irrational" the other factual. I hope this helps.

And you still dont know what efficiency stats are. Wow. I'm not wasting anymore time with you. Blocks and assists are the only real categories with significant difference and win shares, but thats to be excpected considering the players MWP played with. Amazing revelations.

Take your assists and blocks, I'll take the intangibles.

Rockice_8
07-17-2013, 04:51 PM
And you still dont know what efficiency stats are. Wow. I'm not wasting anymore time with you. Blocks and assists are the only real categories with significant difference and win shares, but thats to be excpected considering the players MWP played with. Amazing revelations.

Take your assists and blocks, I'll take the intabgibles.

Still sticking to your guns after that huh. Those are advanced stats that are widely accepted as fair comparisons between players. Blocks and assists only huh. Not rebounding, shooting %'s, and PER.

The players Metta played with? I seriously can't take this nonsense anymore. Go ahead a disregard win shares then. It's a land slide in favor of AK and if you can't see then I don't know what to do. Really can't believe your sticking to your guns after practically every stat I listed AK was superior in.

Things like assists (good passing) and blocks (good defense) are intangibles. OK I'll take the guys with the stats you take the guy who got cut and is tough.

I feel dumber after having to go through all this with you thanks.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-17-2013, 05:06 PM
Ok after I do this you need to stop posting, deal?

PER
AK - 17.6
MWP - 12.5

True Shooting %
AK - .59
MWP - .51

Effective FG %
AK - .54
MWP - .49

Total Rebound %
AK - 10.2
MWP -8.1

Assist %
AK - 14.4
MWP - 6.9

Steal %
AK - 2.4
MWP - 2.5

Block %
AK - 2.4
MWP - 1.2

Offensive Rating
AK - 113
MWP -105

Defensive Rating
AK - 104
MWP -106

Win shares
AK - 6.0
MWP - 4.6

See the difference between facts and things like tough and physical. One would be considered "irrational" the other factual. I hope this helps.
:clap:

KnickFanSince91
07-17-2013, 05:13 PM
:censored: Brooklyn.

Love,

The Bronx

FOBolous
07-17-2013, 05:15 PM
hard to say. Brooklyn looks amazing on paper, but age is definitely a factor here. we'll have to see how much Pierce, Garnett, AK47, and the Jet have left in the tank.

Federal Reserve
07-17-2013, 05:26 PM
When was the last time the Nets made it out of the first round of the playoffs? The Nets are the Knicks' little cousin.

eugene
07-17-2013, 05:41 PM
Wanna see this five on the court:
Lopez
KG
AK
Pierce
D-Will

KnickaBocka.44
07-17-2013, 05:43 PM
Still sticking to your guns after that huh. Those are advanced stats that are widely accepted as fair comparisons between players. Blocks and assists only huh. Not rebounding, shooting %'s, and PER.

The players Metta played with? I seriously can't take this nonsense anymore. Go ahead a disregard win shares then. It's a land slide in favor of AK and if you can't see then I don't know what to do. Really can't believe your sticking to your guns after practically every stat I listed AK was superior in.

Things like assists (good passing) and blocks (good defense) are intangibles. OK I'll take the guys with the stats you take the guy who got cut and is tough.

I feel dumber after having to go through all this with you thanks.

I know what they are, and I i explicitly said "other than efficiency stats". You are the one who is proving they have 0 reading comprehension skills or understanding of basic statistic principles. PER is "player efficiency rating" and it is a joke of a stat anyway. The shooting numbers are also efficiency stats.

In addition, intangible assets are defined at not being physical or material so anything you see on a stat sheet cannot be considered an intangible.

So please tell me how I am the dumb one again?

Lil Rhody
07-17-2013, 06:25 PM
Right now the nets. Hopefully the Knicks make a rondo for amare trade.

:laugh2:


Ha to you sir. Just trying to pawn him off to any team.

JordansBulls
07-17-2013, 10:52 PM
I think this would be an interesting series, but I think the Nets would win this now that I think about it.

Greet
07-18-2013, 04:28 AM
I know what they are, and I i explicitly said "other than efficiency stats". You are the one who is proving they have 0 reading comprehension skills or understanding of basic statistic principles. PER is "player efficiency rating" and it is a joke of a stat anyway. The shooting numbers are also efficiency stats.

In addition, intangible assets are defined at not being physical or material so anything you see on a stat sheet cannot be considered an intangible.

So please tell me how I am the dumb one again?

I don't think you're being clear on your argument, TBH

tyler55
07-18-2013, 04:33 AM
BK has the better team on paper, so I guess them.

RiceOnTheRun
07-18-2013, 05:09 AM
Right now the nets. Hopefully the Knicks make a rondo for amare trade.

I ****ING WISH.

Anyways, even as a Knicks fan, it should be said that the Nets have a better roster on paper. I think the Knicks are still a very solid team, but I have to give the Nets credit for their work in the offseason. 2 solid players off the bench in AK47 and JET, and an all star lineup. Knicks have their work cut out for them in Brooklyn. They need to step away from the ISO game and bring back the ball movement from earlier last season. If they can maintain that, I take the Knicks in 5. If they decide to play the way they did in the playoffs, Nets in 4.

javaid64
07-18-2013, 05:54 AM
coaching is a big part of the game....jason kidd is a new coach with no experience. i mean how can you expect them to execute better than the knicks realizing that they had greater roster turnover and have jason kidd as their coach...
I'm sorry but unless we see the team executes well with new coach and roster than you can't expect them do be a more cohesive unit than the knicks which the knicks have developed over time.

i mean take the spurs as an example....they don't have the talent okc, heat etc. have but they execute to perfection cause they have a great coach the the players play well off each other.....it took miami 2 seasons to win a championship even with their talent and favorable officiating.

so crowning the net are better than the knicks is completely asinine. until we see them play they aren't better than the knicks

Knicks21
07-18-2013, 06:26 AM
And you wonder why people hate on the Knicks and their fans. This thread is full of delusional posts. Especially how much the majority of you underrate AK and act as though MWP and Bargs are just these offseason steals.

This post pops up more often than not.

Let me break it down for you.

Each team has a percentage of "bad eggs" that post irrationally on Sports forum. The Knicks, as having many, many fans on the Sports forum appear to many as being delusional because of the sheer number of them.

Guaranteed Nets have the same percentage of Bad Eggs, as do the Lakers, as do the Bobcats. Just the Knicks appear to have more as more lurk the NBA forum.

RiceOnTheRun
07-18-2013, 07:02 AM
This post pops up more often than not.

Let me break it down for you.

Each team has a percentage of "bad eggs" that post irrationally on Sports forum. The Knicks, as having many, many fans on the Sports forum appear to many as being delusional because of the sheer number of them.

Guaranteed Nets have the same percentage of Bad Eggs, as do the Lakers, as do the Bobcats. Just the Knicks appear to have more as more lurk the NBA forum.

^

I like to think I'm a fairly realistic person in my predictions, with a bit of exaggeration here and there yes, but that's not the point.

Like the above was saying, Knicks are in a big market, and haven't had much success over the past decade so obviously people are hyped about the upcoming Knicks teams. The Lakers probably have just as many 'delusional' fans, along with the Nets and any other team in a large market.

JordansBulls
07-18-2013, 12:00 PM
Wanna see this five on the court:
Lopez
KG
AK
Pierce
D-Will

That won't happen. You need JJ out there.

sportscrazed
07-18-2013, 12:26 PM
This BK team is going to be SLOW and run a half court offense. Last year they were LAST in the NBA in fast break offense and they didn't do much to improve that stat.

The fact of the matter is that every team the Heat had trouble with had good fast breaks (yes that includes the Spurs who had Parker, Kawhi, and Manu). The Brooklyn offense will probably be stagnant and players like Lopez and especially Pierce aren't going to beat a snail in a footrace.

AK47 should help some with this but he's no quicker nor more athletic than Gerald Wallace so I don't see too big of an improvement on the fast break here. (Note: Not saying by any means that AK47 is worse than Gerald Wallace because he isn't).

Maybe coach Kidd can put up some really good half court plays together and make the offense work but right now I see the Nets as a good REGULAR SEASON team. Not built for the playoffs with the slow players and most likely average defense. (NOTE: only reason I say average defense rather than bad defense is because of KG). The part of the defense I worry about is Joe Johnson and Paul Pierce. JJ didn't seem to play good defense last year and the Celtics got Pierce off of Melo and put him on Iman Shumpert. Needless to say Shumpert (who is not really known for amazing offense) scorched Pierce. I think that more had to do with PP is much slower than before which was very apparent.

But who knows, no one can be deemed better until games are played.

Chill_Will_24
07-18-2013, 01:03 PM
Paul Pierce hates the Knicks lmao

Chill_Will_24
07-18-2013, 01:10 PM
This BK team is going to be SLOW and run a half court offense. Last year they were LAST in the NBA in fast break offense and they didn't do much to improve that stat.

The fact of the matter is that every team the Heat had trouble with had good fast breaks (yes that includes the Spurs who had Parker, Kawhi, and Manu). The Brooklyn offense will probably be stagnant and players like Lopez and especially Pierce aren't going to beat a snail in a footrace.

AK47 should help some with this but he's no quicker nor more athletic than Gerald Wallace so I don't see too big of an improvement on the fast break here. (Note: Not saying by any means that AK47 is worse than Gerald Wallace because he isn't).

Maybe coach Kidd can put up some really good half court plays together and make the offense work but right now I see the Nets as a good REGULAR SEASON team. Not built for the playoffs with the slow players and most likely average defense. (NOTE: only reason I say average defense rather than bad defense is because of KG). The part of the defense I worry about is Joe Johnson and Paul Pierce. JJ didn't seem to play good defense last year and the Celtics got Pierce off of Melo and put him on Iman Shumpert. Needless to say Shumpert (who is not really known for amazing offense) scorched Pierce. I think that more had to do with PP is much slower than before which was very apparent.

But who knows, no one can be deemed better until games are played.

Kidd has been preaching quick outlet pass. That is what the Spurs did because they werent really a fast team. Notice how Tim Duncan as soon as he got the rebound he would throw the outlet pass with Tony Parker already running out. Garnett can do this well for Deron. Idk about Brook but i am sure he can be taught. I mean Kidd wont be asking him to be a dime dropper but the outlet pass is an underrated part of the game that gives slow teams a chance to play at a faster pace while covering for the slow guys

JerseyPalahniuk
07-18-2013, 02:52 PM
Paul Pierce hates the Knicks lmao

hahah yeah he specifically didn't mention the Knicks when talking about the contenders. They'll bring a completely new dynamic to the brewing Nets/Knicks rivalry

JerseyPalahniuk
07-18-2013, 02:55 PM
Pierce "We're here to help THEM [deron and brook] win games and continue to be all-stars and possibly MVP candidates" Checking their egos at the door. Lets gooo

afman
07-18-2013, 09:09 PM
BKN on paper win, for this year only.

knicks=love
07-18-2013, 09:58 PM
With the JJ trade last season, and a healthy Lopez returning, there was much debate last season as to who would be Manhattan's best basketball team. As it turns out, it was the Knicks. They finished with more wins, AND made it to the second round.


This off-season, the Nets have made changes again, bringing in: KG, PP, AK47 and The Jet. On paper, it sounds great, but all those guys are over 35 five save AK47 who is 32. The Burger King Nets, Brooklyn Nets also have a rookie coach leading them. Good, or bad? I dunno....

The Knicks, for their part, loss Kidd (who is now the aforementioned rookie coach) and Camby and Nova, but have add Barngani (affectionately know as Barg-gag-me to Toronto fans) and also Metta World Peace, and the Knicks look to have a healthy Amare on board.


There seems to be a lot of subtraction on the part of the Knicks, and a lot of addition on the part of the Nets. But are these moves for better or worse?


I'm going with the Nets, but who do you think will rule the island next season? Nicks or Knets? (sic)

no ****ing way! really?!

GiantsSwaGG
07-18-2013, 10:14 PM
Lol Pierce and KG look they didn't want to be Nets, pierce had to talk KG for hours to convince him to approve the trade. I don't blame him

GiantsSwaGG
07-18-2013, 10:15 PM
Paul Pierce hates the Knicks lmao

After what we did to him in the playoff in his home court, I don't blame them

Greet
07-19-2013, 12:45 AM
Lol Pierce and KG look they didn't want to be Nets, pierce had to talk KG for hours to convince him to approve the trade. I don't blame him

You just said Pierce spent hours trying to convince him?

Chill_Will_24
07-19-2013, 02:19 AM
You just said Pierce spent hours trying to convince him?

Yea idk what he is talking about either. Here is the actual quote from Pierce:


“That’s when I called Kevin and asked him what he thought about coming to Brooklyn, he immediately said, ‘Well, what pieces are they going to give up? Who is going to be left? Is it going to be possible for us to win a championship?’ He was excited when I talked to him after warming him up, just to have the opportunity to come and win a championship and be alongside a young prospect like Brook Lopez, who he can try to take to the next level. And once I warmed him up to that, he was all in for it.”

Nowhere does it say or has it been implied that Pierce spent hours trying to convince him. Just more salty Knicks fans

GiantsSwaGG
07-19-2013, 02:48 AM
You just said Pierce spent hours trying to convince him?


Yea idk what he is talking about either. Here is the actual quote from Pierce:


Nowhere does it say or has it been implied that Pierce spent hours trying to convince him. Just more salty Knicks fans


Pierce sold KG on move to Nets

By Chris Forsberg | July 18, 2013 4:24:49 PM PDT


NEW YORK -- Paul Pierce felt like the writing was on the wall. The Boston Celtics were headed in a different direction, particularly after the departure of coach Doc Rivers, and Pierce had resigned himself to the fact that he would likely be traded from the only NBA team he’d ever known.


AP Photo/Mary Altaffer
Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Jason Terry hold up their new jerseys in Brooklyn.
He heard the rumors about being waived by the Celtics and following Rivers to Los Angeles. He heard whispers about a deal that could have gotten him to Chicago. But then word came that Brooklyn was interested, and they wanted Kevin Garnett to come with him.

Pierce went into recruitment mode with a chance to bring a bit of familiarity to his next NBA destination, and he knew the Nets had an honest-to-goodness chance to compete for a title if they were able to lure away Boston’s veteran core.

On Thursday, Pierce, Garnett and Jason Terry were introduced in a glitzy ceremony before a cluster of cheering season-ticket holders at the pristine Barclays Center in Brooklyn. Pierce, despite mentally preparing himself for the moment, spent much of the early portion of the ceremony looking ill at ease, uncertain how to receive the next chapter of his career.

“It's really starting to sink in, now that it is real,” Pierce said at the podium. “I'm no longer a Boston Celtic. I’m a Brooklyn Net. That’s what it is right now.”

Pierce later detailed the process by which the Nets came calling, and how he phoned Garnett in hopes of convincing him to join him in Brooklyn.

“It was a situation where [the Celtics] were going to make a move, and once the deal with the Clippers didn’t go through for [Garnett], it was like, the Celtics were trading me, Doc was leaving, so what was left for Kevin?” explained Pierce. “I talked to [new Nets coach] Jason Kidd, and he was warming me to the fact of coming to Brooklyn, then he started warming me to the fact that they were trying to get Kevin, too.

“That’s when I called Kevin and asked him what he thought about coming to Brooklyn, he immediately said, ‘Well, what pieces are they going to give up? Who is going to be left? Is it going to be possible for us to win a championship?’ He was excited when I talked to him after warming him up, just to have the opportunity to come and win a championship and be alongside a young prospect like Brook Lopez, who he can try to take to the next level. And once I warmed him up to that, he was all in for it.”

The Nets ultimately traded Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Keith Bogans, MarShon Brooks and Kris Joseph to Boston, along with three first-round draft picks, in exchange for Pierce, Garnett, Terry, and DJ White. The Nets maintained All-Star-caliber talent in Deron Williams, Joe Johnson and Brook Lopez to pair with the Boston veterans.

Garnett, famous for his resistance to change, still had to be convinced of the switch.

“It was one long, long phone call,” Pierce said with a laugh. “Probably like an hour-and-a-half, two hours. I just remember I was standing outside and it was 100 degrees, and I just remember after the phone call I was dripping sweat.

“I was like, ‘Do you understand what’s going on in Boston? [A potential trade to the] Clippers thing appears to be dead. So what do you think, big fella? I know you don’t want to retire. I know you don’t want to retire. You have too much in the tank, you love the game too much. Sometimes you just have to tell Kevin to sit back and think about it. He reacts to everything. Like his initial reaction to everything is, ‘No.’ [You say,] ‘Kevin I got a $100 million,’ [And he replies,] ‘No.’ Then he has to sit back and think about it and then once he warms up to it, he makes his decision, and that’s about anything.

“I knew his initial reaction was going to be against it, but I knew this was going to be a long conversation, too.”

For Garnett's part, he agreed with Pierce that a change might be necessary.

"I don’t like change much. When I commit to something, I like to go all-out," he said. " It’s unfortunate. Obviously, when I saw the Doc Rivers situation I knew that the writing was on the wall even before then. It was tough leaving Rondo and other things, but this is a new chapter with new things to embrace, and that’s what I’m doing.

Pierce believes that Rivers felt the same way as his veteran players, that there was no desire to endure a rebuilding process and the opportunity to compete for another title was too good to pass up.

Pierce also said there are no hard feelings with Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge or the team’s ownership group. He even said that if he was in a similar position, he probably would make the same moves with the best interest of Boston's future in mind. Even if that didn't make the idea of being unable to finish his career in Boston any easier to digest.

Still, he was resigned to the fact.

“I thought the writing was on the wall,” said Pierce. “You saw Doc was leaving, [Rajon] Rondo was hurt, probably not going to be back until probably December, January, who knows? ... If I was a GM and I looked at the situation, and one day I probably plan on being a GM if that’s possible, I probably would have made the same decision. There’s some sentimental things that go along with me and Danny being together for so long, [but] at the end of the day, he works for the Boston Celtics; he doesn’t work for Paul Pierce. He works for a franchise that’s going to be around a lot longer than me, and he has to make the best decisions that he can for that franchise. And, if I was in his position, I think moving forward, I would have done the same thing.”

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=bostonceltics&id=4706155&city=boston&src=desktop

Garnett didn't want to be a Net. Thank Pierce for convincing him! Lol salty net fans

Chill_Will_24
07-19-2013, 03:15 AM
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=bostonceltics&id=4706155&city=boston&src=desktop

Garnett didn't want to be a Net. Thank Pierce for convincing him! Lol salty net fans

Doesnt sound like Garnett did not wanna come nor does it say Pierce spent hours trying to convince him. They are great friends. Maybe they spent that time talking about the possibilities and how they would fit in. Right before the part you bolded it said Garnett was more interested in making sure they we going to win if he agreed to go to Brooklyn, asking who would be left after the trade.

I mean he was pretty siked today at the conference joking around with Pierce at the table cheesing hard as hell when he saw Prokhorov make his surprise entrance

And we Nets fans have nothing to be salty about right now. Nothing. Everything that could have gone right for us this summer did.

JeremiahWing
07-19-2013, 03:19 AM
Nets have more talent, but less time to gel. The Knicks have improved their roster, coming off a #2 seed season. I'd say it's a toss up.

JordansBulls
07-19-2013, 03:50 PM
Nets will be more dangerous in the playoffs than the Knicks.

BKLYNpigeon
07-19-2013, 03:53 PM
Nets are better.

mrblisterdundee
07-19-2013, 07:28 PM
Deron Williams > Raymond Felton
Joe Johnson > J.R. Smith or Iman Shumpert
Paul Pierce < Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett > Amare Stoudemire
Brook Lopez > Tyson Chandler

Nets Bench > Knicks Bench

Is this really a question? And in terms of gelling, I'm pretty sure Garnett, Pierce and Terry, along with Johnson, Williams and Lopez, are pretty well coagulated. The Nets are a borderline contender, whereas the Knicks are in denial.