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View Full Version : Thunder drafted good (07-09) but they have been horrible the last 3 years



HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 01:13 PM
I just have a hard time believing that this team had Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Green, & Ibaka on the same team and ended up trading Green & Harden and all they have to show for it is Kendrick Perkins, Steven Adams, & Jeremy Lamb. That is beyond pathetic. But the thing that gets me the most is that after ALL of these years this FO has yet to get a damn post up player, I mean damn maybe something like a Martin, Lamb, Tor pick could have did it for the Jazz. Harden could have brought a LaMarcus Aldridge or someone. Not to mention the bust I Cole Aldrich & signing Hasheem Thabeet & Daniel Orton. This team hasn't made any big moves and keep losing assets

greg_ory_2005
07-15-2013, 01:21 PM
I wouldn't call them horrible

KnickaBocka.44
07-15-2013, 01:22 PM
I thank the Thunder done drafted real good, uh huh. lol, sorry. I agree though. They loaded their team up with future all-stars, then it came time to pay them it got complicated. Not to mention they were picking in much higher spots before.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-15-2013, 01:24 PM
well*

But yea, I have noticed their blunders the last few years. Started off well but made moves that didn't pan out.

Kleonidas
07-15-2013, 01:26 PM
Lamb and Jackson both will be very good players.

HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 01:27 PM
Lamb and Jackson both will be very good players.

But where is the player that can post up when the game slows down & open up for everyone on the perimeter?

SportsFanatic10
07-15-2013, 01:28 PM
they're a very good team that should of been an amazingly great team right now.

2-ONE-5
07-15-2013, 01:31 PM
LOL KD, Westy, Green and Harden were top 5 picks and Ibaka was a great find and stash at 24. The rest were drafted late in the first round so no wonder they dont compare

FYL_McVeezy
07-15-2013, 01:35 PM
No this is false...

07-09 they had a bunch of top 5 picks....easy to hit there because the talent is in the lottery

after 09 they have been getting mid to low 1st rd picks....it's much harder to hit on a low 1st round pick....

OKC just benefited from sucking in 07-09 that's all....

HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 01:42 PM
LOL KD, Westy, Green and Harden were top 5 picks and Ibaka was a great find and stash at 24. The rest were drafted late in the first round so no wonder they dont compare


No this is false...

07-09 they had a bunch of top 5 picks....easy to hit there because the talent is in the lottery

after 09 they have been getting mid to low 1st rd picks....it's much harder to hit on a low 1st round pick....

OKC just benefited from sucking in 07-09 that's all....

Was it hard to make good trades? Jeff Green & an expiring for Kendrick Perkins? Seemed good back then but what about now? James Harden+filler for Martin, Lamb, Toronto's pick? They had Martin's 12 million expiring, Lamb, PJ3, Jackson, lottery pick, late first rounder in the upcoming draft and ended losing Martin for nothing & drafting Steven Adams? You mean to tell me that all of those assets couldn't have brought in a big man that can score? Or just someone that can help carry the scoring load with them?

blastmasta26
07-15-2013, 01:45 PM
The Thunder's success in drafting wasn't only because of their position in the lottery, Westbrook and also Harden I believe were considered reaches at the time. Ibaka was drafted 24th overall and he's a very good pick for that spot. Durant was the only obvious pick they made in that time. Besides, drafting good players in the lottery is FAR from a given in the NBA.

As much as I liked their draft picks, I hated the moves they made after. Didn't like their trades at all.

SportsFanatic10
07-15-2013, 01:46 PM
No this is false...

07-09 they had a bunch of top 5 picks....easy to hit there because the talent is in the lottery

after 09 they have been getting mid to low 1st rd picks....it's much harder to hit on a low 1st round pick....

OKC just benefited from sucking in 07-09 that's all....

you can miss easily as well even at the top of the draft, like miami getting beasley at number 2, detroit taking darko at number 2 the list goes on and on so they do deserve some credit there.

KnickaBocka.44
07-15-2013, 01:46 PM
Was it hard to make good trades? Jeff Green & an expiring for Kendrick Perkins? Seemed good back then but what about now? James Harden+filler for Martin, Lamb, Toronto's pick? They had Martin's 12 million expiring, Lamb, PJ3, Jackson, lottery pick, late first rounder in the upcoming draft and ended losing Martin for nothing & drafting Steven Adams? You mean to tell me that all of those assets couldn't have brought in a big man that can score? Or just someone that can help carry the scoring load with them?

There arent that many of them around anymore. Losing Martin for nothing was kind of the plan. They wanted a big expiring in return for Harden because they didnt want to pay him.

Sportfan
07-15-2013, 01:47 PM
Reggie Jacksonwas a good pick considering they were in the 20s

Hawkeye15
07-15-2013, 01:51 PM
lot easier to find stars when you have three top 4 picks in a row...

KnickaBocka.44
07-15-2013, 01:54 PM
It's important to remember that OKC is still a small market team despite the fact they have multiple stars. Typically, a team on the precipice of greatness like OKC would make a deal that put them over the top, as well as the luxury tax. They have made it pretty clear that they don't wish to pay that. If I were the owner, I would be willing to spend some extra money to go for rings, but thats probably why I can't buy an NBA team.

HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 01:54 PM
There arent that many of them around anymore. Losing Martin for nothing was kind of the plan. They wanted a big expiring in return for Harden because they didnt want to pay him.

They didn't want to pay him max, they extended a very reasonable deal imo, 4 year/52 million extension?

& you actually think OKC made that trade saying "I think it's best for us to trade him, see him become a big star & get nothing in return for him, let's make that deal"

HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 01:55 PM
lot easier to find stars when you have three top 4 picks in a row...

Is it hard to get something valuable when you trade stars?

KingstonHawke
07-15-2013, 02:03 PM
But where is the player that can post up when the game slows down & open up for everyone on the perimeter?

Personally I think they should've traded Martin and Perkins for Bynum. But, they didn't really need it. Don't forget, if Westbrook doesn't get taken out by a dirty blow the Thunder probably win the championship.

HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 02:05 PM
Personally I think they should've traded Martin and Perkins for Bynum. But, they didn't really need it. Don't forget, if Westbrook doesn't get taken out by a dirty blow the Thunder probably win the championship.

Are you serious? Westbrook is MVP if he makes them that much better than Memphis

Hawkeye15
07-15-2013, 02:16 PM
Is it hard to get something valuable when you trade stars?

they forced their own hand. They drafted so well, so close together, they had to choose who was getting paid and who was getting traded.

KnickaBocka.44
07-15-2013, 02:16 PM
They didn't want to pay him max, they extended a very reasonable deal imo, 4 year/52 million extension?

& you actually think OKC made that trade saying "I think it's best for us to trade him, see him become a big star & get nothing in return for him, let's make that deal"

Well actually yeah. They didnt want to give him the max because it would have put them over the tax threshold, in terms of their valuation of him as a player it wouldn't have made a difference. They basically chose Ibaka over him when they gave him his extension.

Teams dont always make trades to improve on the court. If that were there priority they would have said, "We have a young team that just made it to the Finals, we will keep it together at any cost" and then they would have done it.

KnickaBocka.44
07-15-2013, 02:18 PM
Is it hard to get something valuable when you trade stars?

It can be because typically the team your trading your star to only has picks and players with "potential"

FYL_McVeezy
07-15-2013, 02:18 PM
you can miss easily as well even at the top of the draft, like miami getting beasley at number 2, detroit taking darko at number 2 the list goes on and on so they do deserve some credit there.

I'm not taking any credit away from them....

I am just disputing the OP's notion that the Thunder drafted "poorly" the past couple of season....

it's much easier to hit with with 1st or 5th pick in the draft than it is with the 17th or 24th pick in the draft...

FYL_McVeezy
07-15-2013, 02:19 PM
Was it hard to make good trades? Jeff Green & an expiring for Kendrick Perkins? Seemed good back then but what about now? James Harden+filler for Martin, Lamb, Toronto's pick? They had Martin's 12 million expiring, Lamb, PJ3, Jackson, lottery pick, late first rounder in the upcoming draft and ended losing Martin for nothing & drafting Steven Adams? You mean to tell me that all of those assets couldn't have brought in a big man that can score? Or just someone that can help carry the scoring load with them?

I am speaking upon the drafting aspect of your post. Talking about trades is a diff story entirely...

SportsFanatic10
07-15-2013, 02:19 PM
Personally I think they should've traded Martin and Perkins for Bynum. But, they didn't really need it. Don't forget, if Westbrook doesn't get taken out by a dirty blow the Thunder probably win the championship.

the heat match up great with the thunder, they would of beat them again for the 2nd straight year if the thunder got by the spurs again.

Rockice_8
07-15-2013, 02:25 PM
Which is why I laugh when people call the OKC method of building a team the right way. The right way isn't a one track road. They got extremely lucky for Durant falling to them and the same with Westbrook.

High draft picks are never a sure thing that is why the teams that pick in the lottery usually stay in the lottery until they find a star which can take years. OKC is the exception to the rule not the rule. Luck played just as much into their success as they were able to land multiple stars in a row.

king4day
07-15-2013, 02:29 PM
It helps to have those high picks where they struck gold on 3. Since then I don't think they had many chances to draft high. Late picks are hit and miss.

SportsFanatic10
07-15-2013, 02:33 PM
I'm not taking any credit away from them....

I am just disputing the OP's notion that the Thunder drafted "poorly" the past couple of season....

it's much easier to hit with with 1st or 5th pick in the draft than it is with the 17th or 24th pick in the draft...

ah, ok gotcha

HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 02:44 PM
I am speaking upon the drafting aspect of your post. Talking about trades is a diff story entirely...


I'm not taking any credit away from them....

I am just disputing the OP's notion that the Thunder drafted "poorly" the past couple of season....

it's much easier to hit with with 1st or 5th pick in the draft than it is with the 17th or 24th pick in the draft...

Quote me & bold where I said they have drafted terribly... I just said they have nothing to show for trading away Harden & Green & that signing Thabeet & Orton did nothing. Also said Cole Adrich was a bad pick, which he was. I actually inferred Jackson & PJ3 as assets which mean I liked those picks

valade16
07-15-2013, 02:50 PM
they forced their own hand. They drafted so well, so close together, they had to choose who was getting paid and who was getting traded.

While this is true, I think the biggest problem is that the guys they decided to trade have brought them virtually nothing in return compared to their value. I mean, Harden and Green and all they have to show for it are what?

OceanSpray
07-15-2013, 02:51 PM
Dude... If Jeff Green didn't leave OKC, Harden wouldn't even be getting those minutes. Jeff Green was playing better than Harden and that's why OKC started Jeff over Harden.

Deception
07-15-2013, 03:08 PM
Green had to get paid, Harden had to get paid, there was no way the Thunder could have kept Westbrook, Durant, Harden, Ibaka, and Green.

5ass
07-15-2013, 03:19 PM
They ruined a dynasty in the making. Now they're just a great team. They have a cheap owner.

slashsnake
07-15-2013, 03:24 PM
While this is true, I think the biggest problem is that the guys they decided to trade have brought them virtually nothing in return compared to their value. I mean, Harden and Green and all they have to show for it are what?

The ability to lock up Westbrook and Durant? They knew they wouldn't get anything close to fair value and they couldn't. Sure they could have gotten better players, but at the cost of millions more in spending, which is the entire reason they had to part with Harden.

2-ONE-5
07-15-2013, 03:25 PM
Was it hard to make good trades? Jeff Green & an expiring for Kendrick Perkins? Seemed good back then but what about now? James Harden+filler for Martin, Lamb, Toronto's pick? They had Martin's 12 million expiring, Lamb, PJ3, Jackson, lottery pick, late first rounder in the upcoming draft and ended losing Martin for nothing & drafting Steven Adams? You mean to tell me that all of those assets couldn't have brought in a big man that can score? Or just someone that can help carry the scoring load with them?

are u kidding me captain hindsight

2-ONE-5
07-15-2013, 03:30 PM
It's important to remember that OKC is still a small market team despite the fact they have multiple stars. Typically, a team on the precipice of greatness like OKC would make a deal that put them over the top, as well as the luxury tax. They have made it pretty clear that they don't wish to pay that. If I were the owner, I would be willing to spend some extra money to go for rings, but thats probably why I can't buy an NBA team.

Thunder made something like 560 million in profits alone during the championship season.

valade16
07-15-2013, 03:41 PM
The ability to lock up Westbrook and Durant? They knew they wouldn't get anything close to fair value and they couldn't. Sure they could have gotten better players, but at the cost of millions more in spending, which is the entire reason they had to part with Harden.

Is that enough to win them a Championship? It seems they we're afraid of not being able to pay and losing either that they made a conscious decision to be good enough to be good year in and year out yet they conceded the ability to make a championship caliber squad.

juggla53
07-15-2013, 03:43 PM
I just have a hard time believing that this team had Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Green, & Ibaka on the same team and ended up trading Green & Harden and all they have to show for it is Kendrick Perkins, Steven Adams, & Jeremy Lamb. That is beyond pathetic. But the thing that gets me the most is that after ALL of these years this FO has yet to get a damn post up player, I mean damn maybe something like a Martin, Lamb, Tor pick could have did it for the Jazz. Harden could have brought a LaMarcus Aldridge or someone. Not to mention the bust I Cole Aldrich & signing Hasheem Thabeet & Daniel Orton. This team hasn't made any big moves and keep losing assets

well yeah generally when you go from picking in the top five every year to picking in the late 20's your picks arent going to pan out as well...

They were never going to pay green the amount of money he was worth to play the same position as kevin durant and they traded harden was because they couldnt pay him so getting a guy like aldridge who also has a huge salary wouldnt have made much sense now would it

juggla53
07-15-2013, 03:47 PM
While this is true, I think the biggest problem is that the guys they decided to trade have brought them virtually nothing in return compared to their value. I mean, Harden and Green and all they have to show for it are what?

While i see what your saying, when the grizz traded Pau everyone said they got nothing in return and while it took a few years they ended up with Marc Gasol who is one of the better centers in the NBA... the thunder are still such a young team and nobody has a clue how guys like lamb or adams are going to turn out to be in the next 3-4 years when durant and westbrook will still be in the 26-28 year old range

slashsnake
07-15-2013, 04:12 PM
Is that enough to win them a Championship? It seems they we're afraid of not being able to pay and losing either that they made a conscious decision to be good enough to be good year in and year out yet they conceded the ability to make a championship caliber squad.

It was a tough call for them to make. Harden wasn't going to take the Ginobili home town discount and be a 3rd guy. I can't blame him, he is a star. I don't think I would pass up that.

I think Durant and Westbrook could be enough if they find the right role player fits who also fit their salary cap.

I would say they are still every bit of a contender. I believe last year fell to luck. Westbrook hadn't missed a game due to injury since high school. It isn't like they sent Harden packing with Stephen Curry at point. And Westbrook (and Durant) became much better distributors. They actually were a better team than the year before until Westbrook went down (better win %, better offensive rating, better defensive rating).

I honestly think they felt that they didn't have the ability to get any depth if they kept Harden along with Ibaka, Westbrook and Durant. I would say that depth is a bigger priority than a 3rd star scorer and ball handler for them. Of course I also felt that the Heat would be best off by not having Bosh, but rather a couple role players instead.

John Walls Era
07-15-2013, 04:18 PM
Thunder drafted well*

ChiSox219
07-15-2013, 04:50 PM
I'm rolling with RW, Harden, KD, Ibaka, and minimum salary players if thats what it take to make the money work out.

KnickaBocka.44
07-15-2013, 04:53 PM
Thunder made something like 560 million in profits alone during the championship season.

That doesnt change the fact that they are a small market team. And I doubt thats true because the entire franchise is valued at 475 million.

slashsnake
07-15-2013, 05:12 PM
Thunder made something like 560 million in profits alone during the championship season.

Operating income = profits before taxes and interest payments. They were at 24.5 mil last year. Their total revenue last year was only 126 million.

sammyvine
07-15-2013, 05:17 PM
It helps to have those high picks where they struck gold on 3. Since then I don't think they had many chances to draft high. Late picks are hit and miss.

how....thats a stupid comment to make

if you have an ienpt gm you can miss out on the stars

jordan since he has been gm could have drafted brook lopez, brandon roy, jrue holiday, pau gasol, noah, but missed out on all of them for inferior players. takes more than high picks.

2-ONE-5
07-15-2013, 05:32 PM
Operating income = profits before taxes and interest payments. They were at 24.5 mil last year. Their total revenue last year was only 126 million.

that # was a Bill Simmons tweet last year basically saying they are a small market team in name only.

slashsnake
07-15-2013, 05:42 PM
that # was a Bill Simmons tweet last year basically saying they are a small market team in name only.

Ok, the numbers I posted came from Forbes.

valade16
07-15-2013, 05:45 PM
It was a tough call for them to make. Harden wasn't going to take the Ginobili home town discount and be a 3rd guy. I can't blame him, he is a star. I don't think I would pass up that.

I think Durant and Westbrook could be enough if they find the right role player fits who also fit their salary cap.

I would say they are still every bit of a contender. I believe last year fell to luck. Westbrook hadn't missed a game due to injury since high school. It isn't like they sent Harden packing with Stephen Curry at point. And Westbrook (and Durant) became much better distributors. They actually were a better team than the year before until Westbrook went down (better win %, better offensive rating, better defensive rating).

I honestly think they felt that they didn't have the ability to get any depth if they kept Harden along with Ibaka, Westbrook and Durant. I would say that depth is a bigger priority than a 3rd star scorer and ball handler for them. Of course I also felt that the Heat would be best off by not having Bosh, but rather a couple role players instead.

While true part of that was because of Kevin Martin, a guy they just let walk.

JasonJohnHorn
07-15-2013, 05:48 PM
I'm surprised they didn't pick up Brand or Kaman this year. But, yeah...
As for their picks... they have been low... can't expect much there.

Jarvo
07-15-2013, 06:08 PM
They fail at lofe for still haveing Perk ol sorry *** on the team still, But they'll be okay this playoffs we all learned if we didnt been know how much of an factor Westy is.

slashsnake
07-15-2013, 06:08 PM
how....thats a stupid comment to make

if you have an ienpt gm you can miss out on the stars

jordan since he has been gm could have drafted brook lopez, brandon roy, jrue holiday, pau gasol, noah, but missed out on all of them for inferior players. takes more than high picks.

Hit and miss. he missed on some.

RC Buford could easily be the best GM in the NBA (recommended Parker and Ginobili) He also drafted Corey Joseph over Chandler Parsons, james Anderson over Jordan Crawford, Omri Cassipi over Marcus Thornton, Tiago Splitter over Marc Gasol, Ian Mahinmi over David Lee... etc etc.

Last year nobody after OKC picked scored more than 6 points. And those guys were on Charlotte or Detroit. Teams that didn't have talent and had to play someone.

The year before he got Reggie Jackson. Of the next dozen picks only a few have played more. Would the thunder be that much better with Norris Cole or Marshon Brooks? THen Poindexter... Only two guys in the next 11 have more playing time and points than he does. Then Beauxbois... In the next dozen picks the highest scorer scores 1 pt more per game than him (Toney Douglas). Oh yeah they also got Harden that year

I don't see any years where they would have gotten someone substantially better. You need some guys there to say they picked poorly. If you passed on Kwame Brown to select Darko Milicic when they were the clear cut consensus top 2, did you pick the wrong guy?

I see quite a few where a nearby choice could have been a lot worse.

A couple of small moves and they could have had Greg Oden, Joe Alexander, Johnny Flynn, and JR Giddens instead of Ibaka, Westbrook, Durant, and Harden.

slashsnake
07-15-2013, 06:09 PM
They fail at lofe for still haveing Perk ol sorry *** on the team still, But they'll be okay this playoffs we all learned if we didnt been know how much of an factor Westy is.

Well they can still amnesty him. They've been trying to find someone to volunteer to hand him his amnesty papers for 2 years now though.

HouRealCoach
07-15-2013, 09:35 PM
Dude... If Jeff Green didn't leave OKC, Harden wouldn't even be getting those minutes. Jeff Green was playing better than Harden and that's why OKC started Jeff over Harden.

Are you sure none of that was because Harden was just a rookie and Jeff Green already had a couple of years under his belt?


well yeah generally when you go from picking in the top five every year to picking in the late 20's your picks arent going to pan out as well...

They were never going to pay green the amount of money he was worth to play the same position as kevin durant and they traded harden was because they couldnt pay him so getting a guy like aldridge who also has a huge salary wouldnt have made much sense now would it

They offered Harden a 4 year 52 million extension... Lamarcus is on a 5 year extension worth about 70 million, the average of that is about the same, Aldridge's is just a little less.

& once again, what do they have to show for trading Jeff Green & James Harden now? A bunch of you keep talking about draft picks but can't answer that one question lol

topdog
07-15-2013, 11:48 PM
lot easier to find stars when you have three top 4 picks in a row...

In quality drafts no less. I mean '08 could have been Love, Lopez, Gallinari, Gordon, plus Ryan Anderson, Batum, ect. In 2009, it could have been Rubio, Curry, Evans, ect. I actually was perplexed by the drafting of Green at the time and they could have come away with Noah instead - imagine how that would've changed things.

Trueblue2
07-16-2013, 01:54 AM
Will you still think they did bad when PJIII lamb and adams develop?

shep33
07-16-2013, 02:06 AM
Will you still think they did bad when PJIII lamb and adams develop?

I've seen Adams play. Extremely raw and needs at least a year before he can play in the pros.

Nobody knows about PJIII or Lamb yet, I think thats the worry.

GMpunk
07-16-2013, 11:08 AM
Lamb will be a best on offense

OKC
07-16-2013, 11:57 AM
I have no problem with the way we got to where we are.
we are in a position to trade for a valuable post player with assets (pj3, reggie, adams,mavs pick) and make another legit run for the title.
my problem is that we are not even looking to make a trade.

OceanSpray
07-18-2013, 03:36 AM
Are you sure none of that was because Harden was just a rookie and Jeff Green already had a couple of years under his belt?



They offered Harden a 4 year 52 million extension... Lamarcus is on a 5 year extension worth about 70 million, the average of that is about the same, Aldridge's is just a little less.

& once again, what do they have to show for trading Jeff Green & James Harden now? A bunch of you keep talking about draft picks but can't answer that one question lol

What does Harden being a rookie have anything to do with Jeff Green being better than Harden at that point? OKC wouldn't and couldn't have afforded Jeff Green anyways.

static_inferno
07-18-2013, 03:56 AM
The Thunder had to trade away all those players because they performed so well and demanded larger contracts, something the Thunder couldn't accommodate. As it stands OKC stood behind Durant and Westbrook (and to a lesser extent, Ibaka) which is the smart thing to do because they are OKC's two best players. I mean I really like Harden, but he was the odd man out of those big 3. And since the Thunder did so well in drafting and building a better team they got better records which means they get higher picks.

tyler55
07-18-2013, 04:02 AM
I think Durant, Wes, and Harden being drafted top 5 has something to do with it. Just a thought.

Kevj77
07-18-2013, 05:03 AM
It is the reality of the new CBA. They traded Harden for financial reasons not to get better. They traded Green to try to get a center. They never would have traded Harden for Aldrigde they would have paid Harden.

Plus they had top 5 picks to get Durant, Westbrook and Harden. They won't be a lottery team anytime soon. Ibaka was the only gem in the rough.

sammyvine
07-18-2013, 05:24 AM
It is the reality of the new CBA. They traded Harden for financial reasons not to get better. They traded Green to try to get a center. They never would have traded Harden for Aldrigde they would have paid Harden.

Plus they had top 5 picks to get Durant, Westbrook and Harden. They won't be a lottery team anytime soon. Ibaka was the only gem in the rough.

Which is true but so many other teams have had top 5 picks and wasted them....

Westbrook was considered a reach at 4. He wasnt a good college player and many were saying bayless should have gone ahead of him.

Alot of people at the time were also saying tyreke evans over james harden.

Bar Durant, none of OKC's top 5 picks have been ''sure picks''.

OKC
07-18-2013, 05:29 AM
I think we don't get enough credit for the way westy and harden turned out.
not sure they would have been as good as they are on a different team.

DR_1
07-18-2013, 12:38 PM
It can be because typically the team your trading your star to only has picks and players with "potential"

This. Everyone thought Orland got robbed for Dwight at the time, while everyone thought OKC got a pretty good deal for JH at the time. It's a total crapshoot.