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View Full Version : Start a Franchise - Dwyane Wade or Kevin Durant



JordansBulls
07-14-2013, 07:00 PM
Coming into the league as rookies, who would you rather build a franchise around?

WadeKobe
07-14-2013, 10:43 PM
Dwyane Wade.

Durant will likely go down as the greater player, but if I am a GM building a team without seeing the future... I am picking the potential point guard who is an exceptional rebounder, defender, and shot blocker at his position. PG is more valuable than SF, so Wade is easier to build a team around and get value out of.

Knowing the future? Durant.

Wade was simply too injured during his prime and missed too many games.

Jtirado16
07-14-2013, 10:45 PM
Durant he's everything you want in a player!. Can score, defend, rebound, he's a leader. I'd take Durant but it wouldn't be by much

slashsnake
07-15-2013, 02:24 PM
Good point on knowing Wade then and Now. I would go with Durant as well.

And I would consider Wade a SG with ball skills who brings up the ball more than a point. More in that Harden, Jordan, Kobe role.

Which brings me up to one point where I would disagree. That PG's are worth more than another position. Look at the great PG's of the past 20-25 years. Rod Strickland, Payton, Tim Hardaway, Penny, Nash, Stockton, Francis, Fat Lever, Derek Harper, Mark Jackson, Baron Davis, CP3, Deron Williams, Rose, Mark Price, Kenny Anderson, Terry Porter, Kevin Johnson, Mookie Blaylock, Iverson, Marbury, Terrell Brandon, Alvin Robertson, Cheeks....

When was the last star PG to lead his team to a championship? Kidd wasn't the elite PG anymore and Dirk was clearly the driving force there. Rondo wasn't yet great when Boston won theirs. Billups wasn't a great point at that time (he hit his stride after, and that team rode on Ben Wallace's defense and a lot of good but not great players). Maybe Tony Parker, but as he has gotten better and Duncan has declined, their championship drought has come on.

Really you might have to go back to Magic and Isiah for the last time a star PG led his team to a championship while playing his best. Elite forwards have won the last 3 championships. Elite guards like Kobe and Jordan of course have. Lots of post guys have (Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan).

Just an odd observation.

WadeKobe
07-15-2013, 03:09 PM
Good point on knowing Wade then and Now. I would go with Durant as well.

And I would consider Wade a SG with ball skills who brings up the ball more than a point. More in that Harden, Jordan, Kobe role.

Wade was drafted as a PG and played the 1 his first two seasons and even in their championship season was probably a 1.5 in terms of minutes allocation.


Which brings me up to one point where I would disagree. That PG's are worth more than another position. Look at the great PG's of the past 20-25 years. Rod Strickland, Payton, Tim Hardaway, Penny, Nash, Stockton, Francis, Fat Lever, Derek Harper, Mark Jackson, Baron Davis, CP3, Deron Williams, Rose, Mark Price, Kenny Anderson, Terry Porter, Kevin Johnson, Mookie Blaylock, Iverson, Marbury, Terrell Brandon, Alvin Robertson, Cheeks....

When was the last star PG to lead his team to a championship? Kidd wasn't the elite PG anymore and Dirk was clearly the driving force there. Rondo wasn't yet great when Boston won theirs. Billups wasn't a great point at that time (he hit his stride after, and that team rode on Ben Wallace's defense and a lot of good but not great players). Maybe Tony Parker, but as he has gotten better and Duncan has declined, their championship drought has come on.

Really you might have to go back to Magic and Isiah for the last time a star PG led his team to a championship while playing his best. Elite forwards have won the last 3 championships. Elite guards like Kobe and Jordan of course have. Lots of post guys have (Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan).

Just an odd observation.

I didn't say that 1 was more important than any other position. I said 1 was more important than 3 (Durant's position).

The most important things in basketball are efficient shooting, possession, and rebounds. Since shots that are assisted are more efficient (valuable) than ones that are unassisted, a ball handler/distributor who can facilitate high percentage shots for his team are more valuable than scorers who can create their own shots.

Thus, big men (4/5) and PG (1) are the most valuable positions on the court. This is acknolwedged everywhere except the media (and even they do at times, ie when they criticize the Heat's holes at these positions). Whether it is Hollinger, Oliver, Berri, TrueHoops, BasketballProspectus, Wages of Wins, 82games, or BasketballReference, all of the advanced analytical community agrees on this.

So, 2 and 3 can become great if they handle the ball, distribute, and rebound at a vey high clip for their positions (i.e. Larry, Michael), instead of just being shooters (the traditional role).

So, both Durant and Wade are great, but Wade ultimately presents more value to a team coming out of the draft. He rebounds better at the 2 than Durant does at the 3, he handles the ball better, and is a better facilitator, while still being able to create his own high% shots and give me minutes at the 1. The fact that he can be slid to the 1 full time only makes his rebounding even more valuable. Add in that he is the better rim protector while still being able to close out on shooters? Icing.

You can't go wrong either way and you're a fool for passing either of them up (I am looking at you, Portland, Detroit, Denver).

But if we can look at their skill set and assume equal health and longevity? I am building my team around Wade.

Durant may ultimately be the better layer and individually contribute more wins above average than Wade but it won't be hue and in terms of building a team... shooters come in abundance and it is easier to find shooters at the 2 and 3 positions to put around Wade than it is to find a ball handler and distributor to put with Duran, which would cancel out the individual advantage Durant may have.

todu82
07-15-2013, 07:32 PM
Like both but give me Durant.

DanG
07-16-2013, 10:16 AM
Wade.

LBJ6
07-19-2013, 05:30 AM
Give me Wade, he won his first title on his 3rd year, Durant is now on his 6th season with better supporting cast, what did he accomplished besides scoring title.

SteBO
07-19-2013, 10:57 AM
I'm taking Wade. Better defender and passer, though not as good as shooter as KD. Until now, KD's been nothing more than a scorer.

b@llhog24
07-22-2013, 05:30 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=wadedw01&y1=2009&p2=duranke01&y2=2013

Wade's first six years were better than KDs 6 years. The both had historic seasons in the 6th year but I think I'd give KD the edge. Ultimately the right choice is KD. He's younger, putting up historic production and he's not even in his prime, is easier to build around and has a game that normally produces more longevity. Even if KD never improves from his last season (which honestly is pretty darn hard to improve on.) He'd be better than Wade by a significant margin.

rjkgr
09-04-2013, 05:46 PM
KD is the truth hes the next best thing in the nba

jerellh528
09-04-2013, 05:50 PM
KD rather easily.

flea
09-04-2013, 06:04 PM
KD - I want the only guy that has a real shot at being a better scorer than Michael. It's close though, Wade is great.

Durant is hype
09-08-2013, 12:55 AM
D-Wade. Although KD obviously has more years to be better,but thus far he has not been. I'll say this though, KD's 2013 season was better than any D-Wade season.