PDA

View Full Version : Wes Johnson to the Lakers



Stunner
07-14-2013, 11:04 AM
http://hoopshype.com/

Baldyy
07-14-2013, 11:28 AM
ick

ManRam
07-14-2013, 11:32 AM
7 million bucks, or something like that, for Kaman, Johnson, Swaggy P and Farmar? Not bad. None of them are tremendous players, but together they bring some nice depth...something the team sorely lacked last season. Probably need one more big man and their rotation will be set.

It's been an interesting offseason for them. Clearly they're gunning to sneak into the playoffs, but maintain their 2014 cap freedom. Sounds a lot like the Mavs the past two years...hopefully for them it works out a bit better.

KobeOwnSU
07-14-2013, 11:45 AM
Hopefully we find a diamond in the rough...

NFLNBA
07-14-2013, 11:46 AM
If Lakers had these players last year....Young, Wesley, Farmer, Kaman they are contending. Kobe doesnt get hurt cause they actually would have had a scorer off the bench. These are all 1 year signings which keeps all that money next year. Lakers will be legit in a year or 2 again

ManRam
07-14-2013, 11:53 AM
If Lakers had these players last year....Young, Wesley, Farmer, Kaman they are contending. Kobe doesnt get hurt cause they actually would have had a scorer off the bench. These are all 1 year signings which keeps all that money next year. Lakers will be legit in a year or 2 again

Contending for what? I don't think these guys turn an 7th seed into a championship contender. They absolutely would have helped a lot though, but a bunch of below-league-average players aren't making that type of difference.

lakerfan85
07-14-2013, 11:56 AM
Contending for what? I don't think these guys turn an 7th seed into a championship contender. They absolutely would have helped a lot though, but a bunch of below-league-average players aren't making that type of difference.

I wouldn't say they're all below average players...

Giannis94
07-14-2013, 11:59 AM
Nice, all their missing is Scal.

dtmagnet
07-14-2013, 11:59 AM
Another bust from Syracuse.

Stunner
07-14-2013, 12:06 PM
Odom might be next to sign to finish off their off season and maybe trade Blake and Meeks

Stunner
07-14-2013, 12:07 PM
This core fits the Pringles system better than last years

True Sports Fan
07-14-2013, 12:11 PM
I wouldn't say they're all below average players...

Beat me too it... Farmer, Johnson, Kaman, Young aren't changing you to a contender.

In fact I don't think Farmer is a huge upgrade over Blake, Young a slight one at best over Meeks, and Johnson a slight upgrade at best over Earl Clark. Sure Kaman is solid, but he sure as hell isn't making you a contender

envymamba24
07-14-2013, 12:15 PM
7 million bucks, or something like that, for Kaman, Johnson, Swaggy P and Farmar? Not bad. None of them are tremendous players, but together they bring some nice depth...something the team sorely lacked last season. Probably need one more big man and their rotation will be set.

It's been an interesting offseason for them. Clearly they're gunning to sneak into the playoffs, but maintain their 2014 cap freedom. Sounds a lot like the Mavs the past two years...hopefully for them it works out a bit better.

my thoughts exactly

ManRam
07-14-2013, 12:15 PM
I wouldn't say they're all below average players...

Well, depending on their roles they may or may not be. All 4 are backup-caliber players right now. Maybe "below average" was misleading because even though they are all backup caliber players, they are gonna be asked to fill a role and that role might be suited to their ability. They'll be filling those roles for the most part, but if their minutes balloon over 25 they'll end up being used in roles that they shouldn't be filling.

Wes Johnson: 15-4-1 per 36 minutes with a 48.5% TS% and a 10.3 PER. Below average.
Nick Young: 16-3-2 per 36 minutes with a 52.5% TS% and a 13.3 PER. Average/below average. He's way too one-dimentional of a player to consider him an above-average SG/SF in this league.
Jordan Farmar: No recent NBA stats, and upgrade over Duhon and probably Blake. Still, just a backup caliber talent.

Their RAPM are all in the negatives, and significantly so.

As backups all three are fine, but again, they aren't the difference between a fringe playoff team and a true contender. That's just ludicrous.

Kaman is the one guy that isn't below average. He's 18-10-1 with a 50.7% eFG% and a 16.3 PER. He was a great pickup .

smith&wesson
07-14-2013, 12:18 PM
Nash/Blake
Kobe/Young
Johnson/??
Gasol/??
Kaman/Hill

the lakers should just bring odom back he could play sf/pf off the bench as a 6th man. seems like it would be a good fit.

Tony_Starks
07-14-2013, 12:19 PM
Not bad. Some of their biggest problems were not enough shooters, lack of depth, no athleticism at the wings.

These moves address that. Should be a interesting season.

nickdymez
07-14-2013, 12:41 PM
This cast right here is much better than Houstons assuming Kobe comes back pretty good. Howard is a fool for thinking that houston gave him a better chance to win. I like these moves.

Chronz
07-14-2013, 01:07 PM
Kaman is the one guy that isn't below average. He's 18-10-1 with a 50.7% eFG% and a 16.3 PER. He was a great pickup .

Whats RAPM say about him? IIRC he also has a negative OWS over his career. Thats pretty bad

king4day
07-14-2013, 01:25 PM
Lakers fans will like him. He didn't have many highlights for us last season but this was the biggest. Lakers were lacking in shooting last year and they are def improving it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRJwlx0OVbM

Greet
07-14-2013, 01:33 PM
Whats RAPM say about him? IIRC he also has a negative OWS over his career. Thats pretty bad

Yes he does have a negative OWS.....

The updated RAPM has him ranked pretty bad. Basically his somewhat defensive play doesn't make up for his offense.

beliges
07-14-2013, 02:04 PM
This cast right here is much better than Houstons assuming Kobe comes back pretty good. Howard is a fool for thinking that houston gave him a better chance to win. I like these moves.

I wouldn't say the Lakers have a better cast but I am very reluctant to think Houston will be leaps and bounds better because of Howard. The fact remains that Dwight is as much of an offensive liability as he is a defensive presence.

Lastly offensively the Lakers will be much more effective offensively this season by making pau the primary scorer in the paint and allowing Kobe and Nash to take care of the perimeter. However the Lakers will have absolutely no defense. But with that said its impossible to count Kobe out even at this age. What he does is completely unprecedented in this league. At the very least it should be an interesting season.

ManRam
07-14-2013, 02:09 PM
Whats RAPM say about him? IIRC he also has a negative OWS over his career. Thats pretty bad

Offensive xRAPM: -2.53
Defensive xRAPM: 1.42

Net: -1.1

So yeah, maybe I was being generous. Could certainly get away with calling him "below-average" too.

ManRam
07-14-2013, 02:20 PM
This cast right here is much better than Houstons assuming Kobe comes back pretty good. Howard is a fool for thinking that houston gave him a better chance to win. I like these moves.

This is just ONE way too look at it, and far from the be-all end-all. I'm sure you'll right it off, but here goes. I guess, knowing you'll right it off because you don't want to believe what the stat says, this is for everyone else but you.

RAPM totals for last season:

Kobe: +3.3 ---- Harden: +5.1
Pau: +2.4 ---- Dwight: +5.5

So, supporting casts,


Nash: +0.7 --- Lin: +0.4
Young: -3.0 --- Parsons: -0.1
Kaman: -1.1 --- Asik: +4.5
Wes: -5.0 --- Garcia: -1.7
Blake: -3.0 --- Beverley: +0.4
Hill: -0.9 --- Smith: -0.9


Not so sure I'd agree with you

FOBolous
07-14-2013, 02:25 PM
This is just ONE way too look at it, and far from the be-all end-all. I'm sure you'll right it off, but here goes. I guess, knowing you'll right it off because you don't want to believe what the stat says, this is for everyone else but you.

RAPM totals for last season:

Kobe: +3.3 ---- Harden: +5.1
Pau: +2.4 ---- Dwight: +5.5

So, supporting casts,


Nash: +0.7 --- Lin: +0.4
Young: -3.0 --- Parsons: -0.1
Kaman: -1.1 --- Asik: +4.5
Wes: -5.0 --- Garcia: -1.7
Blake: -3.0 --- Beverley: +0.4
Hill: -0.9 --- Smith: -0.9


Not so sure I'd agree with you

he doesn't care about advance numbers. he thinks advance numbers are for people that never play basketball in their life before. he thinks his own expert evaluation skills > any advance numbers that are out there.

bryan71023
07-14-2013, 02:29 PM
G: Nash/Farmar/Blake
G: Young/Meeks/Bryant*
F: Johnson/Young*
F: Gasol/Kelly
C: Kaman/Hill/Sacre

I think this is a great team on paper I deff see the Lakers making the playoffs especially if Bryant comes back healthy this team can better better than last year should probably still sign another big and wingman to complete roster, not bad for the Lakers.

John Walls Era
07-14-2013, 02:43 PM
wow they are really looking to tank

dabeach87
07-14-2013, 02:44 PM
7 million bucks, or something like that, for Kaman, Johnson, Swaggy P and Farmar? Not bad. None of them are tremendous players, but together they bring some nice depth...something the team sorely lacked last season. Probably need one more big man and their rotation will be set.

It's been an interesting offseason for them. Clearly they're gunning to sneak into the playoffs, but maintain their 2014 cap freedom. Sounds a lot like the Mavs the past two years...hopefully for them it works out a bit better.
feking dis.

3RDASYSTEM
07-14-2013, 02:44 PM
I wouldn't say the Lakers have a better cast but I am very reluctant to think Houston will be leaps and bounds better because of Howard. The fact remains that Dwight is as much of an offensive liability as he is a defensive presence.

Lastly offensively the Lakers will be much more effective offensively this season by making pau the primary scorer in the paint and allowing Kobe and Nash to take care of the perimeter. However the Lakers will have absolutely no defense. But with that said its impossible to count Kobe out even at this age. What he does is completely unprecedented in this league. At the very least it should be an interesting season.

LAKERS allowed bean to run the entire pass/score offense so how will they be better next yr? only way NASH is NASH is if bean is out until DECEMBER or so, if not then he will be same as last yr, PAU is good post player but he is going to get you at best 2 more ppg than HOWARD got this past yr which many suggested was a failure

and yeah kobe bean does things never seen before because nobody and I mean nobody has ever entered the league, started on the allstar team but not they regular season team, and then get labeled a top 5-10 player alltime based on longevity now after the ring ******** talked fizzled and faded away like the fad it was exposed to be

JORDAN said 5 rings beats 1

RUSSELL said 11 beats 6

3RDASYSTEM
07-14-2013, 02:58 PM
he doesn't care about advance numbers. he thinks advance numbers are for people that never play basketball in their life before. he thinks his own expert evaluation skills > any advance numbers that are out there.

when it comes down to it playing-actual experiment is the key to all, not advanced numbers

if I never published/wrote a novel or book there is no way I can try to find fault in sentences and how long a chapter and such should be if I have never had any experience

same way with ball, the advanced stats were never made up by players, they were made up by non players and players who studied and followed bball because they were infatuated by the talent-game of others or grew up in a sports family and were the 'nerd' athlete

my reason for this is all my life of talking nba debates no nba players or ncaa players ever talked about efficiency or PER or ts% nor did any say this will be a new trend, but the nerds are trying to make the trend work and it is looked at on really high level on this forum

the PER rules

this is what I think of when I see PER/TS% ramblings on here

IBM-MSN-NAACP-TSU-USC-LOL-LMAO-ABC-123-TRU-RGIII-

like I feel its something to do with those when I read people on here comparing star player vs star player or bench player vs bench player with a RAMP, or IILC, like what the **** is this sports world coming to

speaking on anything from coaching to supervisor to scouting requires some type of either playing or long family tree type history to it, not just watching it all your life then saying I want to make up something to judge players, by a PER?

I can easily tell you whos the better players out of groups, easily

and then the PER will be a reflection of they game to a small nerd degree, but nowhere near the reflection you guys are trying to make it out to be, but I admire your nerd efforts

nerd is not a diss, its a compliment because I sure as hell wouldn't know what a PER is if it wasn't for the nerds, thanks nerds

lakers4sho
07-14-2013, 03:06 PM
Wes Johnson on Kobe years ago

"I'm really just trying to learn everything he says. He's been playing out his whole career and he knows the little tricks and everything he tells me The even-keeled Johnson developed a comfort level with Bryant throughout his summer workout sessions and started to understand the thick barrier that separates the relationship when the two players are on opposite sides of the floor. In the final meeting between the Lakers and Wolves on March 18, the rookie constructed a career performance, scoring 29 points in 37 minutes while Bryant was limited to just 18 points.

Losoway
07-14-2013, 04:19 PM
lol @ if lakers had these pieces they would be contending.... yea for 8th-9th seed

these below average players isnt changing a thing . lakers still have a long way to go to return to championship form

AddiX
07-14-2013, 04:20 PM
How did this dude even find a roster spot on a NBA team?

LakersMaster24
07-14-2013, 04:49 PM
Here come the stat sluts...

Oh man, that guy's FG% on a full moon odd day from 6pm to 9pm is HORRENDOUS. That player is trash.

If the Lakers were healthy last year, WHICH THEY WERE NOT, and that was the biggest reason we sucked ***. If we were healthy and had Kaman, Young, Johnson, Farmar, Hill off the bench...we would be VERY solid and would have Top 5 record in the west.

NFLNBA
07-14-2013, 05:13 PM
Yeah Lakers would have been great with these young guys last year. Lakers have not had another guy who can create instant offense and let Kobe sit in ages. Young is that. He is another JR Smith type player. Wesley is a great defender and Farmer is better that Blake.

STL Don
07-14-2013, 05:19 PM
Hey, ill take it. The Lakers know there only chance at contending was resigning DH and THANKFULLY that didnt happen bc i, as a spoiled Laker fan, am not very interested in 1st/2nd round exits for the next couple years until Kobe retires. Id rather see them have a smooth transition year this season, have kobe take it easy, and than watch it all fall back into place next season. Patience is key.
As for now, what i can point out is that, nick young, jfarmar, wjohnson, etc all bring something to the table that has been a big whole on this team for a key.while..SPEED, QUICKNESS, ATHLETICSM, ENERGY!! These are the type of players MDA is acustom to teaching. They should all help improve our bench, significantly. Which makes our team better..and than who knows, if they succeed, maybe they'll have the opportunity to stick around once it really becomes interesting in LA once again..we'll see what happens

John Walls Era
07-14-2013, 06:36 PM
Here come the stat sluts...

Oh man, that guy's FG% on a full moon odd day from 6pm to 9pm is HORRENDOUS. That player is trash.

If the Lakers were healthy last year, WHICH THEY WERE NOT, and that was the biggest reason we sucked ***. If we were healthy and had Kaman, Young, Johnson, Farmar, Hill off the bench...we would be VERY solid and would have Top 5 record in the west.

:laugh:

Don't forget about the adjusted stats for if the player took a dump an hour before the game.

ManRam
07-14-2013, 06:58 PM
Here come the stat sluts...

Oh man, that guy's FG% on a full moon odd day from 6pm to 9pm is HORRENDOUS. That player is trash.

If the Lakers were healthy last year, WHICH THEY WERE NOT, and that was the biggest reason we sucked ***. If we were healthy and had Kaman, Young, Johnson, Farmar, Hill off the bench...we would be VERY solid and would have Top 5 record in the west.

You can right us/them off as "stat sluts", as long as you're aware that a lot of these stats, especially RAPM, have tremendous predictive power that's well-proven. You can ignore advanced stats all you want, as long as you realize your favorite team isn't...unless you're a Lakers fan :laugh2: The only team that didn't send a rep to SSC, but they announced they will in 2014. Maybe they realize they're falling behind the curve.

We'll just see how much of an impact these guys all really make. In the end, only time will tell.

kblo247
07-14-2013, 06:59 PM
2x post

kblo247
07-14-2013, 07:04 PM
You guys are delusional if you think these scrubs wil help the lakers this year or would of helped last year.

Some straight left overs bottom feeder players right there.

Yeah because starting and relying Morris, Duhon, Ebanks, Meeks, and Sacre was great while Pau and Nash missed over a quarter of the season, Hill missed 3/4 the year, and Blake missed half of it. You're nuts if you don't think having Farmar, Young, Kaman, or Johnson would have helped over what they were playing especially when Dwight was a bumbling fool on O

JNA17
07-14-2013, 07:07 PM
Most people forget that the Lakers are one of those teams that actually know how to develop young talent unlike their previous teams. Examples?

Trevor Ariza, Shannon Brown, Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, etc. The list goes on. I don't really care if guys like Wesley Johnson hasn't performed well in the past. Wesley was never on a good team as well as not being with the proper veterans to mentor him. He could develop into a very solid role with Nash, Kobe and Gasol with him. He can do two things very well; shoot, and defend. He's a young athletic guy as well which is something the lakers have not add for years for depth.

Lakers are very capable in turning players like Wesley Johnson from scrubs to solid role players because they have done it every year before so far. It might not happen and hell, it probably won't, i wouldn't be surprised if it did. And for the vet min, he's a low risk, high reward. If by some miracle he finds his game, the Lakers landed he a big steal here.

kblo247
07-14-2013, 07:32 PM
Mike d can't stand Jordan hill, and pau and Nash played like garbage even when they were playing. I mean seriously, look at the bums you guys added, most people forget they were even in the NBA.

Hill played a career high mpg at first under Pringles before he hurt his hip. He played him over Jamison and Clark. He didnt like young Hill but he played last years

And again you should know better, you're a Knicks fan who out out Novak, Sheed, Kenyon, Kidd, Prigoni, Q.

kblo247
07-14-2013, 07:33 PM
Mike d can't stand Jordan hill, and pau and Nash played like garbage even when they were playing. I mean seriously, look at the bums you guys added, most people forget they were even in the NBA.

Hill played a career high mpg at first under Pringles before he hurt his hip. He played him over Jamison and Clark. He didnt like young Hill but he played last years

And again you should know better, you're a Knicks fan who saw them put out Novak, Sheed, Kenyon, Kidd, Prigoni, Q, and Felton

ldawg
07-14-2013, 07:36 PM
I dont expect the Lakers to be in the finals but i also did not pick Spurs either. On Paper Lakers was the team to be playing Miami but they looked every bit like a lotto team last season. I Also did not Pic Mavs three seasons ago. If Pau, Kobe and Nash can get and stay healthy I dont see any reasons why they cant win. Are they top tier I would say no but anything can happen in the playoffs. Houston and Lakers will cross path and Lakers will knock them out, Book it.

AddiX
07-14-2013, 07:38 PM
If Nick Young, Chris Kaman are bums...then wtf are you?


Hill played a career high mpg at first under Pringles before he hurt his hip. He played him over Jamison and Clark. He didnt like young Hill but he played last years

And again you should know better, you're a Knicks fan who out out Novak, Sheed, Kenyon, Kidd, Prigoni, Q.

Don't know if you noticed, but a lot of crappy players that mike d rather not play, got burn last year on the lakers.

And the knicks nor I have nothing to do with this, nor does your comparison, this is a lakers thread stay on topic.

kblo247
07-14-2013, 07:43 PM
It has everything to with it ... You can't call a player crappy when they are better than what was used last year for the lakers, nor have a foot in the grave like the Knicks used to get a winning record. And you know nothing about said lakers when you don't know Hill played over Jamison and Clark when Pau and Dwight were both healthy. Stop posting if you don't watch

Jenceman
07-14-2013, 07:44 PM
Beat me too it... Farmer, Johnson, Kaman, Young aren't changing you to a contender.

In fact I don't think Farmer is a huge upgrade over Blake, Young a slight one at best over Meeks, and Johnson a slight upgrade at best over Earl Clark. Sure Kaman is solid, but he sure as hell isn't making you a contender

Farmar and Young are likely huge upgrades over the names you mentioned.

JNA17
07-14-2013, 07:50 PM
Don't know if you noticed, but a lot of crappy players that mike d rather not play, got burn last year on the lakers.

Nash injured for half the season, Pau injured multiple times, Blake and Jordan Hill out for most of the season, and Dwight out a few games has a lot to do with that.

Again, Lakers know how to develop young talent they receive, especially when those players don't play to their expectations from previous teams. Players that I already mentioned being Ariza, Shannon Brown, Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, the list goes on. Earl Clark just happened to be that played that was added to that list last season.

Wesley could turn out to be one of those players next this season. He has the talent and capabilities to be like Ariza was. His strengths are that he can shoot and defend while also being athletic. That's pretty much music to my ears and him playing along side Nash, Kobe and Gasol could do him wonders.

JNA17
07-14-2013, 07:52 PM
Don't know if you noticed, but a lot of crappy players that mike d rather not play, got burn last year on the lakers.

Nash injured for half the season, Pau injured multiple times, Blake and Jordan Hill out for most of the season, and Dwight out a few games has a lot to do with that.

Again, Lakers know how to develop young talent they receive, especially when those players don't play to their expectations from previous teams. Players that I already mentioned being Ariza, Shannon Brown, Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, the list goes on. Earl Clark just happened to be that played that was added to that list last season.

Wesley could turn out to be one of those players next this season. He has the talent and capabilities to be like Ariza was. His strengths are that he can shoot and defend while also being athletic. That's pretty much music to my ears and him playing along side Nash, Kobe and Gasol could do him wonders.

ManRam
07-14-2013, 07:52 PM
Most people forget that the Lakers are one of those teams that actually know how to develop young talent unlike their previous teams. Examples?

Trevor Ariza, Shannon Brown, Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, etc. The list goes on. I don't really care if guys like Wesley Johnson hasn't performed well in the past. Wesley was never on a good team as well as not being with the proper veterans to mentor him. He could develop into a very solid role with Nash, Kobe and Gasol with him. He can do two things very well; shoot, and defend. He's a young athletic guy as well which is something the lakers have not add for years for depth.

Lakers are very capable in turning players like Wesley Johnson from scrubs to solid role players because they have done it every year before so far. It might not happen and hell, it probably won't, i wouldn't be surprised if it did. And for the vet min, he's a low risk, high reward. If by some miracle he finds his game, the Lakers landed he a big steal here.

Saying they developed Ariza, Hill and Clark is a huge stretch IMO.

Ariza was hardly better in LAL than he was in Orlando.
Earl Clark did have his best half ever in LAL, but he regressed back to his terrible self in the second.
Jordan Hill has played 36 games with LAL, I think the jury is still out.
Shannon Brown did play a little better in LA than where he was before, but again it was a tiny jump.


And even if you are right, what do you attribute that to? Coaching? If so, that's changed since those guys came and these new guys are entering.

JNA17
07-14-2013, 08:06 PM
Saying they developed Ariza, Hill and Clark is a huge stretch IMO.

Ariza was hardly better in LAL than he was in Orlando.
Earl Clark did have his best half ever in LAL, but he regressed back to his terrible self in the second.
Jordan Hill has played 36 games with LAL, I think the jury is still out.
Shannon Brown did play a little better in LA than where he was before, but again it was a tiny jump.


And even if you are right, what do you attribute that to? Coaching? If so, that's changed since those guys came and these new guys are entering.

Hardly better? Ariza went from a guy who was a god awful outside shooter with the only thing good about him is making highlight dunks, to a guy that can spot up and hit any open jay, a great team defender that became a huge part in the lakers 2009 championship run. Then all of a sudden gets PAID big time by the Rockets. Before the Lakers, he would have never gotten that kind of money nor be known as a player he was on the lakers.

He regressed because the lakers over played him the first half of the season and ran out of gas near the end of the second half of the season, as well as having all the players back from injuries...until Kobe in the end :(. And even so, Clark was NOTHING before the Lakers.

Jordan Hill didn't play a full year this year, we know that, but when he does, he provided great hustle and energy as well as being a very solid rebounder and defender given the minutes. He was nothing but a total scrub On the Knicks and Houston.

Tiny jump? What the hell did he do on the Bocats and Cavs? Again like the three before, NOTHING! I don't think you realize these guys were literally NOTHING before they came to the Lakers. Brown became a huge spark off the bench as well as a solid iso player. Yeah, inconsistent at that, but when he was on, he was huge. I repeat, HE WAS NOTHING on the Cavs and Bobcats before him. If you call that a "tiny jump", I hate to see what you think is no progress...*sees explanation of Ariza* never mind, already did XD.

Coaching somewhat. Then again it doesn't really matter since Earl Clark during Dantoni, Jordan Hill during Brown, Brown and Riza during Phil. I attribute it to playing with veterans like Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Nash, etc. Notice how the players I mention seem to find themselves a role on a team when their around solid veterans when before they were on terrible teams? Interesting how that works.

jayjay33
07-14-2013, 08:08 PM
Man I really hope gasol Kobe and Nash are healthy next year. If for no other reason then to help a lot of people understand the effect who you play with has on your game and your team.

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2013, 08:08 PM
This signing makes them legit title contenders!

ldawg
07-14-2013, 08:11 PM
If healthy Lakers will be able to compete with at least 27 out of 30 teams. Cant win them all They sign 1 yr contracts for a reason our time aint now but we can cause a upset or two. Whatever they give thats good enough for me.

ManRam
07-14-2013, 08:18 PM
Hardly better? Ariza went from a guy who was a god awful outside shooter with the only thing good about him is making highlight dunks, to a guy that can spot up and hit any open jay, a great team defender that became a huge part in the lakers 2009 championship run. Then all of a sudden gets PAID big time by the Rockets. Before the Lakers, he would have never gotten that kind of money nor be known as a player he was on the lakers.

He regressed because the lakers over played him the first half of the season and ran out of gas near the end of the second half of the season, as well as having all the players back from injuries...until Kobe in the end :(. And even so, Clark was NOTHING before the Lakers.

Jordan Hill didn't play a full year this year, we know that, but when he does, he provided great hustle and energy as well as being a very solid rebounder and defender given the minutes. He was nothing but a total scrub On the Knicks and Houston.

Tiny jump? What the hell did he do on the Bocats and Cavs? Again like the three before, NOTHING! I don't think you realize these guys were literally NOTHING before they came to the Lakers. Brown became a huge spark off the bench as well as a solid iso player. Yeah, inconsistent at that, but when he was on, he was huge. I repeat, HE WAS NOTHING on the Cavs and Bobcats before him. If you call that a "tiny jump", I hate to see what you think is no progress...*sees explanation of Ariza* never mind, already did XD.

Coaching somewhat. Then again it doesn't really matter since Earl Clark during Dantoni, Jordan Hill during Brown, Brown and Riza during Phil. I attribute it to playing with veterans like Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Nash, etc. Notice how the players I mention seem to find themselves a role on a team when their around solid veterans when before they were on terrible teams? Interesting how that works.

That's fair.

It's also worth noting that these guys came over during their ~3rd year in the NBA, when normal improvement tends to start becoming most obvious in general. That's when players usually make their jumps, even if they've been warming benches. This could be correlation not implying causation here.

I'll give you Ariza's shot developing in LA. Beides the three, how did he improve from his 2006-07 season to the when he did in LA? In fact, I think that 07 season was better all-around than LA. He was more efficient and nothing else changed, including minutes.

I'm not sure how Hill went from scrub in Houston to not-scrub in LA. Looks about the same to me when you adjust his stats for minutes. Again, the improvement was minor...it could have just been his natural and expected 3rd/4th year in the league improvement.

Shannon Brown got more minutes in LA, but again, removing minutes from the equation and he wasn't doing anything different. Efficiency about the same, per 36 minute stats about the same, etc.


You're more right than I initially credited, but I'm unsure how much of their improvements, regardless of how significant, can be credited to something tangible in LA that is still there.

ldawg
07-14-2013, 08:21 PM
Lakers will retool next season Who plays well will return.

JNA17
07-14-2013, 08:35 PM
That's fair.

It's also worth noting that these guys came over during their ~3rd year in the NBA, when normal improvement tends to start becoming most obvious in general. That's when players usually make their jumps, even if they've been warming benches. This could be correlation not implying causation here.

I'll give you Ariza's shot developing in LA. Beides the three, how did he improve from his 2006-07 season to the when he did in LA? In fact, I think that 07 season was better all-around than LA. He was more efficient and nothing else changed, including minutes.

I'm not sure how Hill went from scrub in Houston to not-scrub in LA. Looks about the same to me when you adjust his stats for minutes. Again, the improvement was minor...it could have just been his natural and expected 3rd/4th year in the league improvement.

Shannon Brown got more minutes in LA, but again, removing minutes from the equation and he wasn't doing anything different. Efficiency about the same, per 36 minute stats about the same, etc.


You're more right than I initially credited, but I'm unsure how much of their improvements, regardless of how significant, can be credited to something tangible in LA that is still there.

You could be right on that. Which makes my point about Wesley seeing how he's still young and entering his 3rd or 4th year in the league now.

Besides becoming a great team defender and became clutch during the lakers 2009 championship run? Your right I guess nothing else XD.

You can adjust stats to however you see fit but the fact is that when given the minutes, he puts up double double numbers. Why do you think Lakers fans like myself praise him so much as well as now that Dwight left, be given a starting role at PF? The guy went from a total bust pick by the knicks, a bench warmer on the rockets, to now a solid role player that has finally been given playing time.

Mike James is a 20-10 player per 36 minutes. I'm serious look it up XD. I don't put much value per 36 minutes. The fact is is that he played a lot more on the Lakers than his previous teams, became more recognized as a NBA since his time with the Lakers, and was yet another part of the championship run in 2009-2010.

Maybe it has nothing to do with it. Maybe somehow the players before Wesley somehow just found their game the year they were traded or signed to the lakers. I can only base it on the fact that these players were NOTHING before the lakers and BECAME SOMETHING on there. That is a fact.

Will this trend apply to Wesley? Chances are slim, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen. And IF it does happen, I will repost in this thread and post a LARGE I told you so :P.

AddiX
07-14-2013, 08:38 PM
Ok, I'll out this way, there isn't a fan of a good team that said, "damn I want to sign Johnson, young, and farmer."

No one on psd heard those words once before the lakers got them, so the way I see It, without hometown love, there is no way anyone can possibly think these moves are going to help much.

The kaman deal I won't knock em for though, that one makes sense.

kblo247
07-14-2013, 08:41 PM
I will say chemistry is also something that can't be overlooked. They lost Metta who was a good guy, but npo one will miss Dwight

Nash on KTLA uncut: I will miss Metta, Dwight not so much
Pau: I won't shed a tear for losing Dwight Howard
Metta before being amnestied in regards to Dwight leaving: Chemistry just improved

That's not Kobe being a smart *** at all. That's the locker room vets who most consider to be good guys, saying Dwight killed chemistry and they were happy he was gone. There's nothing quite like guys wanting to be on a team, with 3 proven leaders who want to win and tell doubters **** you. It's not like its a toxic environment. It's not like this youth isn't more talented than youth of last year. I'm not calling them world beaters but I am saying they make improve from last year off the health of Kobe, Nash, and Pau as well as having guys who want to be there

kblo247
07-14-2013, 08:43 PM
Ok, I'll out this way, there isn't a fan of a good team that said, "damn I want to sign Johnson, young, and farmer."

No one on psd heard those words once before the lakers got them, so the way I see It, without hometown love, there is no way anyone can possibly think these moves are going to help much.

The kaman deal I won't knock em for though, that one makes sense.

Some Farmar and Young love does come from them being city kids. Cleveland and Taft, UCLA and USC. Johnson hope just comes from some potential, and yes he has some akin to Corey Brewer who Minny couldn't develop, bounced around, got cut, and found his niche in Denver.

kblo247
07-14-2013, 08:43 PM
2x post ... server

JNA17
07-14-2013, 08:51 PM
Ok, I'll out this way, there isn't a fan of a good team that said, "damn I want to sign Johnson, young, and farmer."

No one on psd heard those words once before the lakers got them, so the way I see It, without hometown love, there is no way anyone can possibly think these moves are going to help much.

The kaman deal I won't knock em for though, that one makes sense.

I don't know what exactly the point is with that? In the offseason last year, nobody thought Chris Anderson was a good addition to the Heat and look what happened?

I don't care what people think on PSD. Everybody has opinions, no matter how wrong or right they are. I'm not going to base my opinion on what people on a small sports message board say. I don't based on my own thoughts, my feelings and facts.

The lakers for the first time in years are signing these young athletic players that can also shoot when they have not done for years. Farmar, Young and Johnson at that. Instead of signing spot up old players like Jamison, Blake, Meeks, etc. Best part? Their all vet mins. So its low risk, high reward. They will either prove to be an incredible spark off the bench and provide the energy and hustle the lakers have not had since the their last championship run, or they will suck and we tank to get Wiggins. I'm good with either.

I don't expect much out of them, but I didn't expect much out of Ariza, Brown, Hill and Clark either. So who knows? I love these signings and enjoy this team already a lot more than last seasons. This will be interesting. :D

JNA17
07-14-2013, 08:52 PM
Sorry double post. Something is wrong with the servers.

ldawg
07-14-2013, 09:02 PM
Well i dont know how Spurs do it. Have Spurs ever had a player you heard another team said they wanted?

nyKnicks126
07-14-2013, 09:03 PM
Who cares.. it doesn't make them any better or worse..

ldawg
07-14-2013, 09:08 PM
Who cares.. it doesn't make them any better or worse..Personally If Kobe and Pau is healthy they will be better than last year. Knicks add Smith and boom they improved. So did Miami with Bird man.

Kashmir13579
07-14-2013, 09:11 PM
Hopefully we find a diamond in the rough...

Its not out of the realm of possibility. Wes had all-star potential coming into the NBA. I think him and Kobe are tight as well.

IndiansFan337
07-14-2013, 09:12 PM
7 million bucks, or something like that, for Kaman, Johnson, Swaggy P and Farmar? Not bad. None of them are tremendous players, but together they bring some nice depth...something the team sorely lacked last season. Probably need one more big man and their rotation will be set.

I actually agree. It's too bad they didn't have guys like Swaggy P and Farmar last season. Those shooters are the type of players they needed last year and were sorely lacking.

I don't expect much of anything out of Johnson, even with Artest out of LA.

FkLAjoe
07-14-2013, 09:17 PM
first caveman, then Nick Young, now Wes Johnson.. All the superstars want to be a lakers, the nba is fukc

Hawkeye15
07-14-2013, 09:21 PM
Wes sucks big time. How is he even worthy of a thread?

Tony_Starks
07-14-2013, 09:27 PM
Let's see MWP, Morris, Clark and Sacre or Swagg P, Farmar, Johnson and Kaman.......

Yeah, I'll go with this years squad!

Tony_Starks
07-14-2013, 09:32 PM
Its not out of the realm of possibility. Wes had all-star potential coming into the NBA. I think him and Kobe are tight as well.

Yeah they are, he used to work out here in the summer.

With DAntoni giving him his famous shooters green light I wouldn't be shocked by a break out season.

kblo247
07-14-2013, 09:51 PM
Wes sucks big time. How is he even worthy of a thread?

Argument - Wolves suck at development of wings big time

Case and point Williams right now. There's also Corey Brewer who went thru a similar thing. They couldn't develop the guy who they also used a lotto pick on so they traded him, he got cut, went to a couple teams, found a niche around a vet like Andre Miller and guy, then he suddenly doesn't suck and same Wolves give him what 15 mil?

It could be a similar scenario for Wes. Likely will be one for williams too until he leaves purgatory

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2013, 09:52 PM
Wes sucks big time. How is he even worthy of a thread?

He was good in Syracuse, does that count?

Baldyy
07-14-2013, 10:21 PM
Argument - Wolves suck at development of wings big time

Case and point Williams right now. There's also Corey Brewer who went thru a similar thing. They couldn't develop the guy who they also used a lotto pick on so they traded him, he got cut, went to a couple teams, found a niche around a vet like Andre Miller and guy, then he suddenly doesn't suck and same Wolves give him what 15 mil?

It could be a similar scenario for Wes. Likely will be one for williams too until he leaves purgatory

Wes plays scared. He's afraid to get anywhere near the basket. I don't think putting him in bigger spotlight is going to change that.

tredigs
07-14-2013, 10:41 PM
Argument - Wolves suck at development of wings big time

Case and point Williams right now. There's also Corey Brewer who went thru a similar thing. They couldn't develop the guy who they also used a lotto pick on so they traded him, he got cut, went to a couple teams, found a niche around a vet like Andre Miller and guy, then he suddenly doesn't suck and same Wolves give him what 15 mil?

It could be a similar scenario for Wes. Likely will be one for williams too until he leaves purgatory

To be fair to Minny, he was also absolutely terrible in Phoenix. Without improvement I'll give him 2 more years in the league.

AddiX
07-14-2013, 10:50 PM
Argument - Wolves suck at development of wings big time

Case and point Williams right now. There's also Corey Brewer who went thru a similar thing. They couldn't develop the guy who they also used a lotto pick on so they traded him, he got cut, went to a couple teams, found a niche around a vet like Andre Miller and guy, then he suddenly doesn't suck and same Wolves give him what 15 mil?

It could be a similar scenario for Wes. Likely will be one for williams too until he leaves purgatory

Hate to remind you but mike d takes about 10 minutes to evaluate a player and he decides right there if he will get burn or not. He doesn't develop, doesn't change players game, doesn't coach, its either a yes or no for him.

The mike d dog house was famous in ny, you'll soon find out in la.

ManRam
07-14-2013, 10:50 PM
He was good in Syracuse, does that count?

He was a #4 overall pick, and this is just his 4th season. I can understand people clinging onto hope, even though he's been downright pathetic thus far.

But how hard do you think he'd laugh at you if you told him on draft night that after his 3rd season he'd only be signing a one year deal for the minimum. Yikes.

TrueFan420
07-14-2013, 10:53 PM
Well i dont know how Spurs do it. Have Spurs ever had a player you heard another team said they wanted?

I'm guessing this is in response to something because Duncan, you know the greatest pf to ever play, comes to mind

Hawkeye15
07-14-2013, 10:53 PM
Argument - Wolves suck at development of wings big time

Case and point Williams right now. There's also Corey Brewer who went thru a similar thing. They couldn't develop the guy who they also used a lotto pick on so they traded him, he got cut, went to a couple teams, found a niche around a vet like Andre Miller and guy, then he suddenly doesn't suck and same Wolves give him what 15 mil?

It could be a similar scenario for Wes. Likely will be one for williams too until he leaves purgatory

or Wes Johnson just sucks dude. He is allergic to the paint, has has zero balls.

Have fun with him.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2013, 11:35 AM
I can't believe that Wes Johnson deserves 6 pages in the main forum, but he is on the Lakers now after all, so that figures. Wes is also 26 - he is not going to get better. I still can't believe we drafted him.

Rentzias
07-15-2013, 11:55 AM
He dominated in My Player mode in NBA 2K11.

Stinkyoutsider
07-15-2013, 12:15 PM
Hope the Lakers are still interested in making more moves? Johnson might fit ok into the rotation but if they plan to start him, it's going to be a long season for them imo.

fresh prince
07-15-2013, 12:23 PM
To be fair to Minny, he was also absolutely terrible in Phoenix. Without improvement I'll give him 2 more years in the league.

Wes Johnson in Phoenix:

March - 30 MPG 13.2 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 42% fg and 34.7 3pfg
April - 27 MPG 13.0 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 46 %fg and 29 % 3pfg

I will take that kind of "absolutely terrible" on my squad any day especially when its a young absolutely terrible who has a chance to learn from his workout buddy who also happens to be one of the best wing players of all time.

ManRam
07-15-2013, 12:32 PM
Wes Johnson in Phoenix:

March - 30 MPG 13.2 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 42% fg and 34.7 3pfg
April - 27 MPG 13.0 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 46 %fg and 29 % 3pfg

I will take that kind of "absolutely terrible" on my squad any day especially when its a young absolutely terrible who has a cance to learn from his workout buddy who also happens to be one of the best wign players of all time.

I mean, it's not very good, and even if you think that is good, that April sample is just 8 games. He's played in a 194 in his career. What does 8 games really mean in comparison to the other 186? Nothing.

Those March numbers aren't very good. 13.2 points on 12.9 shots? Not good. 3.5 boards and 1 assist isn't providing much else. He's not a tremendous defender either.


Maybe he turns it around. It's not unprecedented for guys to make huge jumps after 3 years in the NBA, but he's MUCH older than most guys entering their 4th seasons.

Top-5 picks who have taken 1 year deals at the minimum after their rookie contract: Adam Morrison, Sheldon Williams, Shaun Livingston now Wes Johnson. That's the company he's in.

fresh prince
07-15-2013, 12:47 PM
I mean, it's not very good, and even if you think that is good, that April sample is just 8 games. He's played in a 194 in his career. What does 8 games really mean in comparison to the other 186? Nothing.

Those March numbers aren't very good. 13.2 points on 12.9 shots? Not good. 3.5 boards and 1 assist isn't providing much else. He's not a tremendous defender either.Maybe he turns it around. It's not unprecedented for guys to make huge jumps after 3 years in the NBA, but he's MUCH older than most guys entering their 4th seasons.

Top-5 picks who have taken 1 year deals at the minimum after their rookie contract: Adam Morrison, Sheldon Williams, Shaun Livingston now Wes Johnson. That's the company he's in.

Sample is smalll but it shows a positive trend the guy played solid ball when given minutes. For the Lakers he is an ideal fit young, athletic and hungry Its something our team has lacked for years. I'll go out on the limb and say Wes has a better year than AMMO, Mr. Parker and Shaun Livingston.

For most guys this league is all about fit and oppurtunity both of those criteria are at work here. If he doesnt play well and thrive he's out after ths year.

TheIlladelph16
07-15-2013, 12:48 PM
Wes Johnson has been pretty awful in the NBA so far, so I'm not sure why some fans are patting themselves on the back for this signing.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2013, 01:08 PM
Wes Johnson has been pretty awful in the NBA so far, so I'm not sure why some fans are patting themselves on the back for this signing.

because the Lakers could sign Helen Keller and there would be a thread about it that went 10 pages. Just what you get with huge markets.

Gibby23
07-15-2013, 01:26 PM
because the Lakers could sign Helen Keller and there would be a thread about it that went 10 pages. Just what you get with huge markets.

This wasn't started by a Laker fan and the Helen Keller thread would be more than 10 pages with more than half the posters in the NBA forum having no idea who that is.

ThunderousDemon
07-15-2013, 01:26 PM
because the Lakers could sign Helen Keller and there would be a thread about it that went 10 pages. Just what you get with huge markets.

:laugh2:

What a baby.

If you're so hurt about it then close it instead of whining. It wasn't even a Lakers fan that created the thread.

You will use any excuse to ***** about the Lakers.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2013, 01:50 PM
:laugh2:

What a baby.

If you're so hurt about it then close it instead of whining. It wasn't even a Lakers fan that created the thread.

You will use any excuse to ***** about the Lakers.

soooooooo, the point doesn't stand? Same goes with NY, Chicago, Miami, etc. Nothing against the Lakers, simply pointing out anything they do gets overblown.

TheIlladelph16
07-15-2013, 01:51 PM
I mean he has a valid point here. Johnson has literally been terrible his entire career, yet there's a thread discussing it in the NBA forum. I mean, a Kaman thread would have been more deserving than this as its own thread. I would guess that has to do with the large market.

I just don't understand why anyone is citing this as a good thing. Bc Kobe and him were "camp buddies?" His stats certainly don't back this being a good signing, so I guess there's always that.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2013, 01:54 PM
I mean he has a valid point here. Johnson has literally been terrible his entire career, yet there's a thread discussing it in the NBA forum. I mean, a Kaman thread would have been more deserving than this as its own thread. I would guess that has to do with the large market.

I just don't understand why anyone is citing this as a good thing. Bc Kobe and him were "camp buddies?" His stats certainly don't back this being a good signing, so I guess there's always that.

I understand and use advanced stats all the time. They say Wes sucks. And my eyes say he really sucks. We are talking about arguably (statistically for sure) the worst starting wing player in the game for 2 years.

TheIlladelph16
07-15-2013, 02:04 PM
Agreed Hawk. All of the games I have seen him play in have been really bad, and the stats tell me he is a bench player at best. I really liked him coming out of Syracuse too, but it seems that he just won't be able to make the transition.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2013, 02:15 PM
Agreed Hawk. All of the games I have seen him play in have been really bad, and the stats tell me he is a bench player at best. I really liked him coming out of Syracuse too, but it seems that he just won't be able to make the transition.

sucks too. He has an NBA body, athletic, nice looking stroke, but just seems like that hot chick in college that won't put out to anyone. A complete waste of talent.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2013, 02:18 PM
He is 26, that's the key here. He is basically in his prime and is not getting much better.