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View Full Version : Where does Roy Hibbert rank among centers?



InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 10:14 AM
Where do u have hibbert among centers in the nba today?

1. Howard- even when injured he still was the best in the game last season
2. Brook Lopez-hated on for whatever odd reason, went for 19 and 7 boards to go along with over 2 blocks this past season, in only 30 minutes a game while also managing to average just 2 fouls per game. Per 36 averaged 23 and 8, to go along with 2.5 blocks per 36 this past season.

from a technical perspective, this coming season will only be his 5th (do to the year he only played 5 games)

3. Roy Hibbert-had a bit of a sub par regular season(not in terms of his career stats, but in terms of progression). but showed up when it mattered, in the playoffs, averaging 17/10/2 blocks. really showed to be a force against miami, displayed that he does have a bit of an inside game. should come in strong next season, and i expect him to play about 32 minutes(which would be a career high) and average 15/9/ and 2

4. Marc Gasol- ill give him the slight edge over noah, due to the fact that he, unlike noah, has been mostly healthy for most of his career, with only 1 year sub 65 games.

5. Joahim Noah-very good center, can do a little of everything, except play at a high level in the playoffs

in the 2011 playoffs he managed 8 pts, 10 boards, and 2 blocks, 2 assists, and shot 41 % from the field at the 5 position

in the 2013 playoffs, he managed just under a double double with 10 pts 9 boards and 2 blocks. but managed just 43% from the field while taking 10 shots. last i checked, these statistics are good enough for him to be considered a volume shooting center 10 shots=10 points=No Good

coupled with him never being healthy, and that his PER has decreased in the playoffs in comparison to how he does in the regular season, while all the players i listed above him have either had their PER numbers increase, or stand pat. i think its fair to have noah at #5 on this list

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 10:15 AM
honorable mention:

Andrew Bynum

Omer Asik-nearly scratched my list at #5 due to him averaging 10 and 12 while shootign 54% last year, but that PER wasnt enough

MonroeFAN
07-09-2013, 10:35 AM
better than Brook Lopez IMO. He's not unfairly hated on, it's just difficult to ignore his poor rebounding numbers.

I would go

Dwight
Hibbert
Lopez

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 10:43 AM
better than Brook Lopez IMO. He's not unfairly hated on, it's just difficult to ignore his poor rebounding numbers.

I would go

Dwight
Hibbert
Lopez

hibbert averaged just 1.4 more boards than lopez did last year in simular minutes

and mind u, lopez doesnt need to rebound like that, he played with eveans last year who in 24 minutes, averaged 11 boards. lopez averaging 7 is wayy too looked at, considering he is playing with a teammate that is just a pure beast

and before him, he was playing wit humpfries, who i also think was doing double digits

Pierzynski4Prez
07-09-2013, 10:44 AM
So we just ignore an average regular season over 7 games against a team that has minimal front court depth or defense whatsoever? Not top 3 IMO. Where's Duncan?

Pierzynski4Prez
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
hibbert averaged just 1.4 more boards than lopez did last year in simular minutes

and mind u, lopez doesnt need to rebound like that, he played with eveans last year who in 24 minutes, averaged 11 boards. lopez averaging 7 is wayy too looked at, considering he is playing with a teammate that is just a pure beast

and before him, he was playing wit humpfries, who i also think was doing double digits

That could go both ways though. One could argue that the reason why Nets PFs average so many boards comes from playing next to Brook.

yaswaggin
07-09-2013, 10:58 AM
Center is the weakest position in the NBA.

Rockice_8
07-09-2013, 11:04 AM
Better than Hibbert are the following in no particular order.

Dwight
Lopez
Gasol
Noah

Then
comes guys like Hibbert. Love his D but the rest of his game leaves alot to desire. Not a good rebounder really and has very little back to the basket game.

Rockice_8
07-09-2013, 11:04 AM
Double Post

Rockice_8
07-09-2013, 11:11 AM
That could go both ways though. One could argue that the reason why Nets PFs average so many boards comes from playing next to Brook.

It's not about individual numbers. Reggie was always a good rebounder, playing next to Brook didn't automatically make him a good rebounder. Plus as I said individual numbers don't matter, the Nets were top 3 in rebounding differential last year so say what you want about his rebounding #'s cause his team was one of the best in the league and Brook was a big part of that.

LA had the best rebounder in the league and didn't even crack the top 20. It's not about individual numbers.

bloomis1307
07-09-2013, 11:16 AM
why don't we wait until the forum ranks it instead of creating a thread now?

2-ONE-5
07-09-2013, 11:27 AM
Hibbert is being overrrated bcuz of the playoffs.

1. Howard
2. Marc Gasol
3. Noah
4. Lopez
5. Pek
6. Hibbert

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 11:28 AM
Better than Hibbert are the following in no particular order.

Dwight
Lopez
Gasol
Noah

Then
comes guys like Hibbert. Love his D but the rest of his game leaves alot to desire. Not a good rebounder really and has very little back to the basket game.

im not really understanding the bolded, he plays 8 less minutes than noah, and 7 less than gasol. yet he out rebounds gasol, and his per 36 numbers nealry match noah at 10.6 rebounds per 36

so as i said, i dont see that part

and out of those centers, hibbert probably has either the second or 3rd best back to the basket game. and remember, unlike noah, and maybe gasol, hibbert has yet to max out his potential, and only averages 25 mpg for his career, and last year only played 28

hes clearly either being coddled by his coach, or his foul trouble is putting a stop to his play time

ThePooH_1_
07-09-2013, 11:30 AM
Howard
M.Gasol
Noah
Lopez
Hibbert

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 11:36 AM
Hibbert is being overrrated bcuz of the playoffs.

1. Howard
2. Marc Gasol
3. Noah
4. Lopez
5. Pek
6. Hibbert

i dont think thats a fair thing to say, althoguh i respect ur opinion

for a player that performed his best at the highest level last season(the playoffs, the thing that matters most when evaluating a player's output imo) , unlike some of the players u ranked above him (noah,gasol, peck), and manages to play the least amount of minutes out of any of the centers you listed, but managed to log simular minutes in the playoffs to what those players u listed logged on nightly bases last regular season, i wouldnt say at all that hes being overated because of his playoff performance

the playoffs was his first time averaging 35+ minutes, while he just logged 28 during the regular season.

he manged to output more points than pekovic averaged during his regular season, more rebounds than marc gaosl did in both the regular season or playoffs, and obliterated noah's piss poor fg%

i think its unfair to say hes being overated because of his playoff performance. id argue hes being underated because of his lack of minutes

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 11:40 AM
So we just ignore an average regular season over 7 games against a team that has minimal front court depth or defense whatsoever? Not top 3 IMO. Where's Duncan?

i dont regard duncan as a center

roy hibbert played 19 games at 36 mpg during the playoffs and put up 17/10 and about 2 blocks

during the regular season he just logged 28 and put out 12 and 8.

those 8 minutes allowed him to put up some more shots as well as get to the line twice as much as he did during the regular season

minimal front court depth doesnt mean much, most of the league doesnt have much depth. the bulls have 2 players that play defense inside (gibson, noah), the clippers have 1(jordan), the spurs have 2, the knicks have 2. etc

there is no such thing as "front court depth" in the nba for most teams

ManRam
07-09-2013, 11:42 AM
better than Brook Lopez IMO. He's not unfairly hated on, it's just difficult to ignore his poor rebounding numbers.

I think it depends on what you need from your center honestly. They're too different, but both bring a lot of great things to the table. Lopez isn't a great rebounder, but it's not going to be a huge disadvantage, even compared to Hibbert.


He's up there. I glad he kinda had his coming out party in the playoffs, but maybe people are now getting a bit carried away. He truly deserved much more DPOY love than he got (he was my choice!). He's truly game-changing in that regard...but he's not a top 3 center in the NBA.

He's terrible offensively. TERRIBLE.

I can't have him in my top 3 or so because of that. LOVE the defense, HATE the offense.


I'm taking Dwight, Noah, and Gasol over him. Bosh and Duncan if they count. Horford, Lopez and a few others are right there too.

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 11:45 AM
That could go both ways though. One could argue that the reason why Nets PFs average so many boards comes from playing next to Brook.

one could argue the reason X player averages X boards is because they play with X player in any argument

for example, i could throw out that chris bosh averaged 20/10 twice just because hplayed with a poor rebounder like bargs. because in his final season with the raptors he averaged 10 boards, and sicne he joined miami, he hasnt even sniffed 9

so these are really not strong arguments

the point is, that he doesnt have to go out and grab 14 boards. 7 is fine when you consider who hes playing with

for the same reason why bosh doesnt need to average 20 and 10. because hes playing with players that can score and rebound

ManRam
07-09-2013, 11:49 AM
That could go both ways though. One could argue that the reason why Nets PFs average so many boards comes from playing next to Brook.

i think lopez isn't that much worse of a rebounder than hibbert. his rebounding numbers when he first came in the league were fine. then kris humphries and reggie evans came around. they steal a ton of rebounds...something hibbert doesn't have to deal with. evans might be the league's best rebounder, and humphries in the top 10.

a career TRB% of 13% compared to a 14.9% isn't a HUGE discrepancy.

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 11:50 AM
I think it depends on what you need from your center honestly. They're too different, but both bring a lot of great things to the table. Lopez isn't a great rebounder, but it's not going to be a huge disadvantage, even compared to Hibbert.


He's up there. I glad he kinda had his coming out party in the playoffs, but maybe people are now getting a bit carried away. He truly deserved much more DPOY love than he got (he was my choice!). He's truly game-changing in that regard...but he's not a top 3 center in the NBA.

He's terrible offensively. TERRIBLE.

I can't have him in my top 3 or so because of that. LOVE the defense, HATE the offense.


I'm taking Dwight, Noah, and Gasol over him. Bosh and Duncan if they count. Horford, Lopez and a few others are right there too.

terrible as compared to what?

hibbert got 17 points off of 12 shots and got the line over 5 times, in 19 games at age 26

dwight howard, the last time he even played close to the amount of games hibbbert played, averaged just 18 points off of 10, and got to the line 11 times per game

what other center over the past 5 has done what hibbert has this past playoffs? im sure the number will be under 5 players at the center that have come close to that output. starting with bosh

so i ask u, hibbert is terrible offensively as comared to what?

not to mention he shot better in the playoffs as compared to the crap gasol(45% fg ) and noah(43%fg) pulled

Rockice_8
07-09-2013, 11:55 AM
im not really understanding the bolded, he plays 8 less minutes than noah, and 7 less than gasol. yet he out rebounds gasol, and his per 36 numbers nealry match noah at 10.6 rebounds per 36

so as i said, i dont see that part

and out of those centers, hibbert probably has either the second or 3rd best back to the basket game. and remember, unlike noah, and maybe gasol, hibbert has yet to max out his potential, and only averages 25 mpg for his career, and last year only played 28

hes clearly either being coddled by his coach, or his foul trouble is putting a stop to his play time


Not that he's a bad rebounder but he's not a some stud either. His back to the basket game is just average as well. His low MPG is another reason to dislike him as stamina is also a big factor for him.

I'd easily take the big 4 over him (Dwight, Gasol, Lopez, and Noah) after that he's got a case for the next spot. His FG% at 7'2" is poor. The guy has yet to shoot over 50% from the field and it's not like he's got excellent range like Lopez or Gasol either. FT% is below average as well

His PER is closer to average then elite. Has a case for top 5 center based on good defense but lacks in other important areas.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Where do u have hibbert among centers in the nba today?

1. Howard- even when injured he still was the best in the game last season
2. Brook Lopez-hated on for whatever odd reason, went for 19 and 7 boards to go along with over 2 blocks this past season, in only 30 minutes a game while also managing to average just 2 fouls per game. Per 36 averaged 23 and 8, to go along with 2.5 blocks per 36 this past season.

from a technical perspective, this coming season will only be his 5th (do to the year he only played 5 games)

3. Roy Hibbert-had a bit of a sub par regular season(not in terms of his career stats, but in terms of progression). but showed up when it mattered, in the playoffs, averaging 17/10/2 blocks. really showed to be a force against miami, displayed that he does have a bit of an inside game. should come in strong next season, and i expect him to play about 32 minutes(which would be a career high) and average 15/9/ and 2

4. Marc Gasol- ill give him the slight edge over noah, due to the fact that he, unlike noah, has been mostly healthy for most of his career, with only 1 year sub 65 games.

5. Joahim Noah-very good center, can do a little of everything, except play at a high level in the playoffs

in the 2011 playoffs he managed 8 pts, 10 boards, and 2 blocks, 2 assists, and shot 41 % from the field at the 5 position

in the 2013 playoffs, he managed just under a double double with 10 pts 9 boards and 2 blocks. but managed just 43% from the field while taking 10 shots. last i checked, these statistics are good enough for him to be considered a volume shooting center 10 shots=10 points=No Good

coupled with him never being healthy, and that his PER has decreased in the playoffs in comparison to how he does in the regular season, while all the players i listed above him have either had their PER numbers increase, or stand pat. i think its fair to have noah at #5 on this list

Gasol and Noah are clearly better than Hibbert IMO.

I really value Hibbert's defense in the paint which is why I do rank him in the top 5, but Gasol and Noah (along with Dwight and Lopez) are just better, more complete all around players.

But, the center position on its own is weak and you can't really put together a list without including some PFs.

You have three different types of PFs: Stretch 4s (Kevin Love), Offensive athletic PFs (Blake Griffin), and Forward Centers (Tim Duncan).

Guys like Tim Duncan, KG, Pau Gasol, Anthony Davis, etc. could all be compared with centers in this league because they have length, can defend the rim, and score in the post. They basically do everything a Center does except they carry less weight and thus usually guard opposing team's PFs instead. But, they have the same necessary skillset that you need from a legit big man that every team needs.

Its just me, but I'd compare those guys if I'm talking about Centers. They can be just as valuable and provide the same type of impact for a team. And, a guy like Duncan more resembles Dwight Howard than Kevin Love or even Amare based on their specific impact on the game.

abe_froman
07-09-2013, 11:59 AM
top 10 for sure,somwhere in the 7-10 range.behind dwight,noah,horford,timmy,bosh,marc,chandler,and maybe lopez

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-09-2013, 12:01 PM
I think it depends on what you need from your center honestly. They're too different, but both bring a lot of great things to the table. Lopez isn't a great rebounder, but it's not going to be a huge disadvantage, even compared to Hibbert.


He's up there. I glad he kinda had his coming out party in the playoffs, but maybe people are now getting a bit carried away. He truly deserved much more DPOY love than he got (he was my choice!). He's truly game-changing in that regard...but he's not a top 3 center in the NBA.

He's terrible offensively. TERRIBLE.

I can't have him in my top 3 or so because of that. LOVE the defense, HATE the offense.


I'm taking Dwight, Noah, and Gasol over him. Bosh and Duncan if they count. Horford, Lopez and a few others are right there too.

Bosh is debateable.

Bosh has proven to be more of a stretch 4 and we are talking about Centers right now.

I'd rather have Hibbert as my 5 than Bosh.

Even with the offensive inefficiency, one of the most important, if not the most important job of a Center is to defend the rim.

Hibbert is great at that, Bosh isn't.

It depends on the surrounding cast, but if we are talking about playing the 5, I'd take Hibbert all day.

For all Hibbert's weaknesses, his strengths are ideal for the Center position with hi 7'2" frame, incredible length, and great ability to use all that to defend the rim. With that kind of size, he doesn't even need to block every shot (he does block a ton though obviously). He can just as easily alter shots and change the game plan with his presence alone.

I'll still take Gasol and Noah over him. I'll also take Lopez and of course Dwight.

Duncan is clearly better too, but IDK if we are factoring in age right now. If so, the list becomes much shorter.

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 12:04 PM
Gasol and Noah are clearly better than Hibbert IMO.

I really value Hibbert's defense in the paint which is why I do rank him in the top 5, but Gasol and Noah (along with Dwight and Lopez) are just better, more complete all around players.

But, the center position on its own is weak and you can't really put together a list without including some PFs.

You have three different types of PFs: Stretch 4s (Kevin Love), Offensive athletic PFs (Amare), and Forward Centers (Duncan).

Guys like Tim Duncan, KG, Pau Gasol, Anthony Davis, etc. could all be compared with centers in this league because they have length, can defend the rim, and score in the post. They basically do everything a Center does except they carry less weight and thus usually guard opposing team's PFs instead. But, they have the same necessary skillset that you need from a legit big man that every team needs.

Its just me, but I'd compare those guys if I'm talking about Centers. They can be just as valuable and provide the same type of impact for a team. And, a guy like Duncan more resembles Dwight Howard than Kevin Love or even Amare based on their specific impact on the game.


i dont regard power forwards as centers or centers as power forwards. whatever a player is listed as, i take that as what they are


i wouldnt say that marc gaso or noah is "clearly" better than hibbert, by any stretch of the imagination.

he plays less minutes than them both currently, shoots better than them both, has virtually the same defensive impact as them both. but is younger, hasnt maxed out his potential unlike them both, and is getting paid the same.

not to mention that in two consecutive playoffs, hibbert's PER has increased over his regular season PER. and those PERs come from when he plays 30+ minutes in the playoffs


when you put his playoff averages and PER against both noah and gasol's averages and PER, they become quite less as impressive as you currently view them

now, im not trying to convice you that hibbert is better than them, but im just trying to show u guys where im coming from, and showing you, that in the same amount of minutes, hibbert puts out more production that those two players

while noah and gasol may be more well rounded, i donot think they are better than hibbert at all. not to mention that hibbert hasnt even gotten to show us what he can do, while we have pretty much seen the peaks of both noah and gasol at this point

rockets-fan
07-09-2013, 12:10 PM
I know a lot of people are going to bag on me for this, but this is the order I'd take them in

Marc Gasol
Howard
Hibbert
Lopez
Asik or Noah

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 12:10 PM
Not that he's a bad rebounder but he's not a some stud either. His back to the basket game is just average as well. His low MPG is another reason to dislike him as stamina is also a big factor for him.

I'd easily take the big 4 over him (Dwight, Gasol, Lopez, and Noah) after that he's got a case for the next spot. His FG% at 7'2" is poor. The guy has yet to shoot over 50% from the field and it's not like he's got excellent range like Lopez or Gasol either. FT% is below average as well

His PER is closer to average then elite. Has a case for top 5 center based on good defense but lacks in other important areas.


i dont think stamina is it at all. if it is, why is it that he can play 70+ games during the regular season, then baloon to 36 in the playoffs? shouldnt his body be tired after a long season and not be able to go many more miles?

gasol hasnt gone over 50% for the past two seasons either

but anwyay, why should that matter? the playoffs is what matters, and in them hibbert has shot over 50% in the past two playoffs, something gasol cant say, and they are the same height(which is irrelevant)

he shot 80% from the line in this past playoffs, just like gasol

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 12:11 PM
I know a lot of people are going to bag on me for this, but this is the order I'd take them in

Marc Gasol
Howard
Hibbert
Lopez
Asik or Noah

whats ur reasoning behind gasol> howard? and asik>noah?

only thing asik really has over noah is that hes cheaper, younger, more potential, and fg%. other than that, noah either matches or is better than him in other areas

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-09-2013, 12:11 PM
If we are going to compare Lebron with Kobe, then why not compare Duncan with Dwight?

Who cares if they are listed at different positions, that is just semantics IMO.

I'll compare wingers with wingers, facilitators with faciliators, Bigs with Bigs, etc.

The listed position means nothing to me. The specific type of contribution a given player has on the game is what I care to look at and analyse.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-09-2013, 12:12 PM
I know a lot of people are going to bag on me for this, but this is the order I'd take them in

Marc Gasol
Howard
Hibbert
Lopez
Asik or Noah

I love Marc Gasol, but he ain't better than Howard.

No chance.

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 12:14 PM
If we are going to compare Lebron with Kobe, then why not compare Duncan with Dwight?

Who cares if they are listed at different positions, that is just semantics IMO.

I'll compare wingers with wingers, facilitators with faciliators, Bigs with Bigs, etc.

The listed position means nothing to me. The specific type of contribution a given player has on the game is what I care to look at and analyse.

if ur going to compare lebron and kobe, thats up to you. but when you try and rank lebron and kobe on the same list for the same position, then thats stupid

compare bigs with bigs, but dont rank pf and center on the same list. they are two different positions

so you can compare shaq and duncan all you want. but when you try and rank the top 5 power forwards of all time, i dont want to see shaq on the list

ManRam
07-09-2013, 12:19 PM
terrible as compared to what?

hibbert got 17 points off of 12 shots and got the line over 5 times, in 19 games at age 26

dwight howard, the last time he even played close to the amount of games hibbbert played, averaged just 18 points off of 10, and got to the line 11 times per game

what other center over the past 5 has done what hibbert has this past playoffs? im sure the number will be under 5 players at the center that have come close to that output. starting with bosh

so i ask u, hibbert is terrible offensively as comared to what?

not to mention he shot better in the playoffs as compared to the crap gasol(45% fg ) and noah(43%fg) pulled

dude had an eFG% and TS% under 50%. I don't care if you like advanced stats or not, that's bad. Unacceptable even. Even if you don't care for advanced stats (no one should hate those two because they are so intuitive and obvious), his career FG% is 47% which is pathetic for a guy like him. Dude's taller than everyone he goes against but can't shoot 50%? Nah...not good.

Your small sample size means nothing to me...and reinforces my belief that people are getting too carried away with one playoff run. I'm glad people are more aware of him now, but pump the brakes. Let's not go from underrating to overrating him in one fell swoop.


Gasol shot 45% but he is still a far better offensive player. He has range. He can feast in the paint and hit mid-range jumpers. You can force him the ball and he'll get good looks out of it. He's a tremendous FT shooter. In the regular season, they both took 10.9 shots a game. Gasol got 14.5 points out of it, Hibbert got 11.9.

Yes, he was great in the playoffs. Let's just see more of it before we start assuming that's actually what he is.

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 12:26 PM
Top 5

1.Dwight
2.Gasol
3.Noah
4.Lopez
5.Hibbert

Top 5 i'd take to build a team

1.Gasol
2.Noah
3.Dwight
4.Lopez
5.Hibbert

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 12:30 PM
dude had an eFG% and TS% under 50%. I don't care if you like advanced stats or not, that's bad. Unacceptable even. Even if you don't care for advanced stats (no one should hate those two because they are so intuitive and obvious), his career FG% is 47% which is pathetic for a guy like him. Dude's taller than everyone he goes against but can't shoot 50%? Nah...not good.

Your small sample size means nothing to me...and reinforces my belief that people are getting too carried away with one playoff run. I'm glad people are more aware of him now, but pump the brakes. Let's not go from underrating to overrating him in one fell swoop.


Gasol shot 45% but he is still a far better offensive player. He has range. He can feast in the paint and hit mid-range jumpers. You can force him the ball and he'll get good looks out of it. He's a tremendous FT shooter. In the regular season, they both took 10.9 shots a game. Gasol got 14.5 points out of it, Hibbert got 11.9.

Yes, he was great in the playoffs. Let's just see more of it before we start assuming that's actually what he is.

that doesnt really mean all that much to me, i dont hold the regular season in as high a regard as you do.

if we look at those same numbers(efg%) for his last two post seasons, its not only over 50%, but higher than the 2 of the players you ranked above him on your list, in the post season (gasol and noah, if you dont count the year noah played just 3 games in the post season)

i dont see how gasol is a better offensive player. he may have more weapons, but that doesnt matter. if player x and player y play in the playoffs for the past two seasons, and player Y shoots a higher percentage and gets to the line more, and scores a little bit higher or close than player X, then what does it matter that one shoots jumpers?

roy hibbert averages from the past 2 post season years : 15 ppg, 10.4 boards, 2.4 blocks 1.3 assists 77% ft 50% fg 34 mpg 30 games

marc gasol's last two post seasons 16 ppg, 7.9 boards, 3.2 assists 2.1 blocks 79%ft 47%fg 39 mpg in 27 games

so again, hibbert still cant match gasol in minutes, but matches to out rebound, block, shoot better and shoot similar at the line

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 12:45 PM
Top 5

1.Dwight
2.Gasol
3.Noah
4.Lopez
5.Hibbert

Top 5 i'd take to build a team

1.Gasol
2.Noah
3.Dwight
4.Lopez
5.Hibbert

why do you have howard 3rd on your list?

if you are going to build a team, how could you not start with a player who has career averages of 18, 12, 2b locks and shoots 57% from the field? why would you chose to have two centers who have shot sub 45% from the field during this past offseason? not to mention that they are both making 13+ million next season :laugh2: when for just 6 million more, you get a player that commands a double, gets to the line, and is the best at his position?

whats your line of thinking on this? is this just because of "blah blah howards a baby, hes a coward blah blah" or something else?

valade16
07-09-2013, 12:56 PM
It seems like the consensus top 5 are:

Howard
Lopez
Gasol
Hibbert
Noah

The only real thing to decide is the order, and personally after Dwight, I think a legitimate case could be made for all of them to be ranked anywhere from #2-#5.

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 01:00 PM
It seems like the consensus top 5 are:

Howard
Lopez
Gasol
Hibbert
Noah

The only real thing to decide is the order, and personally after Dwight, I think a legitimate case could be made for all of them to be ranked anywhere from #2-#5.

yea, after those 5, we just have asik ,monroe and a few other guys, maybe gortat, etc

Loro2128
07-09-2013, 01:04 PM
Al Horford put similar numbers per 36 min to hibbert in the post season 16.5 pt 9 reb 3 ast a steal and block but his numbers were just about the same throughout the regular season as well... and Larry Sanders Had 14 pt 10.5 reb 1.6ast a steal 1.6 blk per 36 in his few games of the post season reg season 13 pt 12.5 reb 1.5 ast a steal 3.7 blk per 36 and shooting a little over 50% so where should they be ranked?

VCaintdead17
07-09-2013, 01:07 PM
Better than Hibbert are the following in no particular order.

Dwight
Lopez
Gasol
Noah

Then
comes guys like Hibbert. Love his D but the rest of his game leaves alot to desire. Not a good rebounder really and has very little back to the basket game.


Hibbert is a great rebounder.

Kashmir13579
07-09-2013, 01:07 PM
He ranks behind Noah as far as i'm concerned.

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 01:09 PM
Al Horford put similar numbers per 36 min to hibbert in the post season 16.5 pt 9 reb 3 ast a steal and block but his numbers were just about the same throughout the regular season as well... and Larry Sanders Had 14 pt 10.5 reb 1.6ast a steal 1.6 blk per 36 in his few games of the post season reg season 13 pt 12.5 reb 1.5 ast a steal 3.7 blk per game shooting a little over 50% so where should they be ranked?

horford is in that bubble after the 5th spot, gets a few more shots than hibbert. plays worse defense than most of the top 5

larry sanders is an interesting case, but doesnt get to the line or take as many shots as hibbert and others, but he definatly could be in that top 5 discussion next year

Hawkeye15
07-09-2013, 01:16 PM
Hibbert was on his way to being a laughing stock of a signing last year before he finished ok, and had a good playoff run. Not a top 4 center for sure.

Cubby
07-09-2013, 01:19 PM
He ranks behind Noah as far as i'm concerned.

Yep.

I put Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum (when he is healthy, of course), and Brook Lopez ahead of Hibbert.

VCaintdead17
07-09-2013, 01:23 PM
dude had an eFG% and TS% under 50%. I don't care if you like advanced stats or not, that's bad. Unacceptable even. Even if you don't care for advanced stats (no one should hate those two because they are so intuitive and obvious), his career FG% is 47% which is pathetic for a guy like him. Dude's taller than everyone he goes against but can't shoot 50%? Nah...not good.

Your small sample size means nothing to me...and reinforces my belief that people are getting too carried away with one playoff run. I'm glad people are more aware of him now, but pump the brakes. Let's not go from underrating to overrating him in one fell swoop.


Gasol shot 45% but he is still a far better offensive player. He has range. He can feast in the paint and hit mid-range jumpers. You can force him the ball and he'll get good looks out of it. He's a tremendous FT shooter. In the regular season, they both took 10.9 shots a game. Gasol got 14.5 points out of it, Hibbert got 11.9.

Yes, he was great in the playoffs. Let's just see more of it before we start assuming that's actually what he is.

Not defending Hibbert's dog **** offense the first half of the season, but its widely believed that he was suffering from a wrist injury from the beginning of the season and it was much worse than he let on.

This theory kind of holds up, considering he vastly improved the last two months of the season averaging 15 ppg on 48% shooting in March and 57% in April.

It'll be interesting to see how he performs offensively this upcoming season.

Also, Hibbert has a rediculous amount of range.

Loro2128
07-09-2013, 01:26 PM
horford is in that bubble after the 5th spot, gets a few more shots than hibbert. plays worse defense than most of the top 5

larry sanders is an interesting case, but doesnt get to the line or take as many shots as hibbert and others, but he definatly could be in that top 5 discussion next year
Hibbert reg season per 36 min 15 pt 10.4 reb 1.8ast .6 stl 3.3 blk post season 16.8 Pts 9.8 reb 1.3 ast .2 stl 1.9 blk

smood999
07-09-2013, 01:27 PM
can't just ignore Hibbert's regular season production...he has yet to prove he can sustain that level of play. Jerome James had a better than normal playoffs for himself once...

Hawkeye15
07-09-2013, 01:33 PM
Hibbert reg season per 36 min 15 pt 10.4 reb 1.8ast .6 stl 3.3 blk post season 16.8 Pts 9.8 reb 1.3 ast .2 stl 1.9 blk

his offensive efficiency was pure garbage for his position though, especially considering he isn't a stretch type big.

Loro2128
07-09-2013, 01:43 PM
his offensive efficiency was pure garbage for his position though, especially considering he isn't a stretch type big.

Completly agree what I'm saying though is why would he be ranked so high when his numbers are so similar to Larry Sanders but Sanders hasn't been mention as a top C in more depth Hibbert shot 55% fg 74% ft 4.7 orb 5.7 drb 10.4 trb 1.8 ast .6 stl 3.3 blk 2.6 to and 15 pts Sanders numbers 51% fg 62% ft 4.2 orb 8.3 drb 12.5 trb 1.5 ast a steal 3.7 blk 1.6 to and 13 pts

Loro2128
07-09-2013, 01:43 PM
his offensive efficiency was pure garbage for his position though, especially considering he isn't a stretch type big.

Completly agree what I'm saying though is why would he be ranked so high when his numbers are so similar to Larry Sanders but Sanders hasn't been mention as a top C in more depth Hibbert shot 55% fg 74% ft 4.7 orb 5.7 drb 10.4 trb 1.8 ast .6 stl 3.3 blk 2.6 to and 15 pts Sanders numbers 51% fg 62% ft 4.2 orb 8.3 drb 12.5 trb 1.5 ast a steal 3.7 blk 1.6 to and 13 pts

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 01:44 PM
can't just ignore Hibbert's regular season production...he has yet to prove he can sustain that level of play. Jerome James had a better than normal playoffs for himself once...

he has proven he can sustain that level of play. in fact, he has proven alot, he proved that he can produce at a high level, at the most important time of the year, in intense playoff basketball

in the regular season, the coach has him playing under 30, in the post season, hes playing 35+

so dont say he hasnt proven that he can sustain that level of play. whats more important, the playoffs or the regular season? last time i checked, you dont get rings in one of the two

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 01:46 PM
Hibbert reg season per 36 min 15 pt 10.4 reb 1.8ast .6 stl 3.3 blk post season 16.8 Pts 9.8 reb 1.3 ast .2 stl 1.9 blk

blocks /= good defense

blocks just mean blocked shots

reminds me of how overated chris anderson was in denver. and basically how overated marcus camby has been for his career

remmber that DOPY he got in denver :laugh2: highway robbery at its finest

FOXHOUND
07-09-2013, 02:01 PM
I think the first two stand alone right now,

1) Dwight Howard
2) The Tim Duncan

After that I have a tie for third,

T-3) Roy Hibbert
T-3) Marc Gasol

Then I would go,

5) Joakim Noah
6) Brook Lopez
7) Tyson Chandler
8) Larry Sanders
9) Al Jefferson
10) Omer Asik

I think the rising strength of the center position is really going under the radar, with Pekovic and other young players like Vujecic and Drummond on the rise as well. I would honestly argue that it has overtaken PF or will shortly if it hasn't, but that's a different conversation.

So for Hibbert, what's not to like? Is he being overrated for his postseason, particularity for beating up on a PF like Bosh against a team with no real center at all? Yeah, maybe, but is having a strong postseason really a crime? I would counter that any overrating of his postseason would easily make up for how criminally underrated he was in the regular season for his incredible defensive impact. By the numbers there is no better defender of the rim in the NBA than Roy Hibbert, and I think the obvious reluctance for stars like Carmelo Anthony, and then LeBron James and Dwyane Wade to drive to the rim as much was an impressive stamp to that testament.

The first half of his regular was rough, and he was making that contract look questionable. But he had a strong second half, averaging 16 PPG on 50% and 80% from the FT line in an offensive resurgence the team was waiting for all season. So impressive was his outburst that he had almost as many FTA in those 26 games, 109, as he did for the first 53 games before the break, 116. I fully expect to see that offensive growth to carry over into next season as by the end the team did truly become the George and Hibbert show on offense. The first half was a lot of identity searching on offense as the team adjusted to no longer having Granger around.

One could knock his 8.3 REB per game, but they're forgetting a major factor. The Indiana Pacers were BY FAR the best rebounding team in the NBA and you would be hard pressed to say that the giant lumbering under the rim wasn't a huge reason for that. Even if he wasn't always grabbing the rebound himself you can't ignore that his boxing out kept a lot of players off of the offensive and defensive glass. As a Knicks fan I saw this first hand, as a very good rebounder and aggressive one in Tyson Chandler had many games where he couldn't make an impact on the boards in that postseason series. Is he really a poor rebounder, or on a team that employs an incredible rebounding system that can hinder an individuals rebounding numbers?

Right now I'm not sure if I think Roy Hibbert is better than Marc Gasol, I think that will be decided this upcoming season.

003
07-09-2013, 02:01 PM
Top 5

1.Dwight
2.Gasol
3.Noah
4.Lopez
5.Hibbert

Top 5 i'd take to build a team

1.Gasol
2.Noah
3.Dwight
4.Lopez
5.Hibbert

Completely agree with both of these lists. Would maybe even put Dwight a few notches down on the building a team list behind Lopez and Hibbert. Regardless, it seems pretty clear to me that Dwight, Gasol, and Noah are the three best centers in the league.

5ass
07-09-2013, 02:02 PM
Larry Sanders will be top 5 next year for sure.

HouRealCoach
07-09-2013, 02:07 PM
Hibbert has never shot over 50%, averaged 13 points, or grabbed 9 rebounds for a season... NOT better than Marc Gasol for sure, or Brook Lopez, I'd even take Pek & Noah over him

HouRealCoach
07-09-2013, 02:09 PM
I just can't see Tim Duncan & Al Jefferson as C's for some odd reason

FOXHOUND
07-09-2013, 02:12 PM
Hibbert has never shot over 50%, averaged 13 points, or grabbed 9 rebounds for a season... NOT better than Marc Gasol for sure, or Brook Lopez, I'd even take Pek & Noah over him

Marc Gasol averaged 7.8 REB in 35 MPG last season, Roy Hibbert averaged 8.3 REB in 29 MPG.

I love Marc Gasol, but I think he gets a bit overrated at times.

Also when you talk about someone like Pekovic you're really ignoring that Hibbert is arguably the best defensive center in the world, where as Pekovic is awful on that end. It's like he isn't even there.

rockets-fan
07-09-2013, 02:22 PM
I love Marc Gasol, but he ain't better than Howard.

No chance.

I'm just saying who I'd take, Gasol is a blue collar kind of guy and is going to work his butt off to help his team succeed. Howard, as many people know, is a distraction liability. Love that my team signed him, best center talent wise, I'm just saying I'd take Gasol over him. I've always had a thing for Gasols playing style. Don't know why.

Loro2128
07-09-2013, 02:23 PM
PF/C i would say he is in the teens somewhere imo not top 5 at all i can run a list if needed

JerseyPalahniuk
07-09-2013, 02:53 PM
Absolutely loving the respect Brook Lopez has earned around here. Cannot believe how wrong the haters were last summer

Pacerlive
07-09-2013, 03:03 PM
his offensive efficiency was pure garbage for his position though, especially considering he isn't a stretch type big.

If you want to compare healthy guys to unhealthy guys then for sure his efficiency is down but thats due to injury more than anything else. Guys also can be efficient scorers but thats really only do to creative pg play that Hibbert doesn't have either becuase of the system or becuase of a lack of talent at the pg position.

I would say Hibbert is one of the least assisted starting big men in the league. He gets his points not of pnr but good old fashion post work with baby hooks and clear outs to his side.

IF your talking pure scoring then I would take Brook Lopez over HIbbert. Given his all around game though I would gladly take Hibbert over Lopez.

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 07:46 PM
why do you have howard 3rd on your list?

if you are going to build a team, how could you not start with a player who has career averages of 18, 12, 2b locks and shoots 57% from the field? why would you chose to have two centers who have shot sub 45% from the field during this past offseason? not to mention that they are both making 13+ million next season :laugh2: when for just 6 million more, you get a player that commands a double, gets to the line, and is the best at his position?

whats your line of thinking on this? is this just because of "blah blah howards a baby, hes a coward blah blah" or something else?You don't build a team around the better player every time.I'd take a slightly worse player who will give everything for the team all season long,is a nice team player and creates no locker room problems,over the better player who could turn out to be a 'cancer' and a cry baby.
And in this situation Dwight has done that TWICE already,while Gasol has worked his *** off to become something more than 'Pau's young brother' and he never created a problem.

PS. I won't comment on the 'gets to the line' argument for Dwight lol.

Jarvo
07-09-2013, 07:48 PM
Howard
Gasol
Hibbert
Noah
Pek

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 07:52 PM
I love Pek's game but I don't get how he is better than Lopez.

Hawkeye15
07-09-2013, 07:56 PM
Completly agree what I'm saying though is why would he be ranked so high when his numbers are so similar to Larry Sanders but Sanders hasn't been mention as a top C in more depth Hibbert shot 55% fg 74% ft 4.7 orb 5.7 drb 10.4 trb 1.8 ast .6 stl 3.3 blk 2.6 to and 15 pts Sanders numbers 51% fg 62% ft 4.2 orb 8.3 drb 12.5 trb 1.5 ast a steal 3.7 blk 1.6 to and 13 pts

I really have no idea why anyone ranks Hibbert that high frankly.

Hawkeye15
07-09-2013, 07:57 PM
Marc Gasol averaged 7.8 REB in 35 MPG last season, Roy Hibbert averaged 8.3 REB in 29 MPG.

I love Marc Gasol, but I think he gets a bit overrated at times.

Also when you talk about someone like Pekovic you're really ignoring that Hibbert is arguably the best defensive center in the world, where as Pekovic is awful on that end. It's like he isn't even there.

Pekovic isn't a rim protector, but he is a decent defensive center. Add to the fact that he is an efficient scorer, draws fouls, and led the league in offensive rebound rate, and it's negligible that Hibbert is any better.

Hawkeye15
07-09-2013, 07:59 PM
Absolutely loving the respect Brook Lopez has earned around here. Cannot believe how wrong the haters were last summer

while I would still like better rebounding and defense, he at least entered average world at both. And he is arguably the best offensive talent at the position. Easily top 5 at this point.

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 08:00 PM
Pekovic isn't a rim protector, but he is a decent defensive center. Add to the fact that he is an efficient scorer, draws fouls, and led the league in offensive rebound rate, and it's negligible that Hibbert is any better.
I'd take Pek over Hibbert too(for now).
I just didn't put him on my list cause I thought it was limited to those 5 guys mentioned in the OP.
I'd take Horford over him too.

Hawkeye15
07-09-2013, 08:01 PM
If you want to compare healthy guys to unhealthy guys then for sure his efficiency is down but thats due to injury more than anything else. Guys also can be efficient scorers but thats really only do to creative pg play that Hibbert doesn't have either becuase of the system or becuase of a lack of talent at the pg position.

I would say Hibbert is one of the least assisted starting big men in the league. He gets his points not of pnr but good old fashion post work with baby hooks and clear outs to his side.

IF your talking pure scoring then I would take Brook Lopez over HIbbert. Given his all around game though I would gladly take Hibbert over Lopez.

His eFG%, was a complete embarrassment. Period. Hibbert was horrific offensively. His redeeming argument is seriously the fact that he had a nice playoff run, which entices the short term memory of fans.

If he builds off this years playoffs, and becomes what he showed for 10 games, he is worth that deal. If he continues to play like he did throughout the regular season, he is way overpaid.

Pacerlive
07-09-2013, 08:04 PM
Yep.

I put Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum (when he is healthy, of course), and Brook Lopez ahead of Hibbert.

Again hindsight is 20/20. Brook Lopez was more of a laughing stock in 2012 and Bynum was the laughing stock on 2013. Injuries happen and not to calculate that in is frankly ignorant at best.

Pacerlive
07-09-2013, 08:13 PM
His eFG%, was a complete embarrassment. Period. Hibbert was horrific offensively. His redeeming argument is seriously the fact that he had a nice playoff run, which entices the short term memory of fans.

If he builds off this years playoffs, and becomes what he showed for 10 games, he is worth that deal. If he continues to play like he did throughout the regular season, he is way overpaid.
Most people who follow him knew that he was hurt. His wrist gave him problems and his efg% suffered to no ones surprise.

Looking at his career he was royally screwed by having JoB as a coach. The guy wanted him to lose 30 lbs so he could run the floor with the likes of Mike Dunleavy jr. No one had a worse coach for a Center than JoB.

Once Hibby got healthy he dominated and fell into his role. He has transformed himself into arguably the best defensive center in the league which was a far cry from where he was 2 years ago.

Edit: Again the guy was injuried early in the seasona and shot .414% pre all star break but post all star break he shot above 50%.

Hawkeye15
07-09-2013, 08:27 PM
Most people who follow him knew that he was hurt. His wrist gave him problems and his efg% suffered to no ones surprise.

Looking at his career he was royally screwed by having JoB as a coach. The guy wanted him to lose 30 lbs so he could run the floor with the likes of Mike Dunleavy jr. No one had a worse coach for a Center than JoB.

Once Hibby got healthy he dominated and fell into his role. He has transformed himself into arguably the best defensive center in the league which was a far cry from where he was 2 years ago.

Edit: Again the guy was injuried early in the seasona and shot .414% pre all star break but post all star break he shot above 50%.

as I said, if he can build on his playoff games, good for him. Let's see it first.

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 08:33 PM
He's not even top 5.

Dwight
Noah
Brook
Chandler
Marc

I think his domination against Miami blindsided everyone. He would never average those numbers against a legitimate center. Everyone knew Hibbert/David West were going to dominate Miami before the series began. He has great post moves but he was incredibly inconsistent pre All Star.

Buckwheat
07-09-2013, 08:36 PM
Howard
Gasol
Noah
Lopez
Hibbert/Chandler/Pekovic

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 08:36 PM
He's not even top 5.

Dwight
Noah
Brook
Chandler
Marc

I think his domination against Miami blindsided everyone. He would never average those numbers against a legitimate center. Everyone knew Hibbert/David West were going to dominate Miami before the series began. He has great post moves but he was incredibly inconsistent pre All Star.
Chandler is not in the top 5.him over Marc?lol

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 08:39 PM
Chandler is not in the top 5.him over Marc?lol

No particular order of course. Just stating that Chandler>Hibbert. Chandler is a better rebounder, defender, and has been consistent the entire year. Hibbert didn't get started until the latter part of the year.

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 08:49 PM
No particular order of course. Just stating that Chandler>Hibbert. Chandler is a better rebounder, defender, and has been consistent the entire year. Hibbert didn't get started until the latter part of the year.yes Hibbert played great vs Miami,while chandler was awful in the playoffs,so the recent memory says Hibbert is better.they are preety equal to me,Hibbert should improve though.

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 08:52 PM
yes Hibbert played great vs Miami,while chandler was awful in the playoffs,so the recent memory says Hibbert is better.they are preety equal to me,Hibbert should improve though.

Playing great against one team that had no legitimate center doesn't mean you're top 5 at your position. Curry played like the best PG during the playoffs, doesn't mean he's above Paul/Parker/Westbrook.

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 09:05 PM
Playing great against one team that had no legitimate center doesn't mean you're top 5 at your position. Curry played like the best PG during the playoffs, doesn't mean he's above Paul/Parker/Westbrook.

Curry was a top 3 PG for half the season too,not only playoffs.
Agree that Hibbert was facing basically nobody vs the Heat,but he was able to beast.I doubt Chandler would have put up that kind of numbers and impact vs them.

Pacerlive
07-09-2013, 09:09 PM
as I said, if he can build on his playoff games, good for him. Let's see it first.

Playoff games be damn he more or less proved himself before that but most people didn't see the games hence his 50% field goal post all star break.

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 09:39 PM
Curry was a top 3 PG for half the season too,not only playoffs.
Agree that Hibbert was facing basically nobody vs the Heat,but he was able to beast.I doubt Chandler would have put up that kind of numbers and impact vs them.

What... Curry wasn't top 3 man. Parker, CP3, and Russell were all better than Curry. My point is matchup wise, Hibbert would probably be a top center against Miami. Chandler isn't good against Miami because he can't dominate you offensively. Hibbert has offensive game but so far he's only shown that against Miami. Chandler has been a much more consistent player the entire season and I'm not going to bump him down because Hibbert played one great series.

BullsNumber1Fan
07-09-2013, 09:41 PM
I'm taking Horford over Hibbert and Lopez personally. Hibbert is one of the most well rounded bigs in the league. Great defender, can rebound, hit a mid-range shot, nice post game, athletic. He has no weaknesses. Here's how I got it:

1. Howard
2. Gasol
3. Noah (or Horford)
4. Hoford (or Noah)
5. Lopez/Hibbert

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 09:43 PM
What... Curry wasn't top 3 man. Parker, CP3, and Russell were all better than Curry. My point is matchup wise, Hibbert would probably be a top center against Miami. Chandler isn't good against Miami because he can't dominate you offensively. Hibbert has offensive game but so far he's only shown that against Miami. Chandler has been a much more consistent player the entire season and I'm not going to bump him down because Hibbert played one great series.
Curry was better than cp3 in the last months of the season,and Parker lost some games too.he definitely was top3 during that period.

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 09:51 PM
Curry was better than cp3 in the last months of the season,and Parker lost some games too.he definitely was top3 during that period.

Entire season>One month. Lots of players were sitting out the latter end of the season anyways.

Pacerlive
07-09-2013, 09:51 PM
What... Curry wasn't top 3 man. Parker, CP3, and Russell were all better than Curry. My point is matchup wise, Hibbert would probably be a top center against Miami. Chandler isn't good against Miami because he can't dominate you offensively. Hibbert has offensive game but so far he's only shown that against Miami. Chandler has been a much more consistent player the entire season and I'm not going to bump him down because Hibbert played one great series.
Lol what about Hibbert against Chandler in this years playoffs. Who was better?

Maybe you guys didn't watch him against the Knicks which wouldn't surprise me from some front runners.

ManRam
07-09-2013, 09:52 PM
Not defending Hibbert's dog **** offense the first half of the season, but its widely believed that he was suffering from a wrist injury from the beginning of the season and it was much worse than he let on.

good to know. i was unaware of this.

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 09:55 PM
Entire season>One month. Lots of players were sitting out the latter end of the season anyways.
I never said he was top 3 for the entire season though.i said second half/post all star.

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 10:09 PM
I never said he was top 3 for the entire season though.i said second half/post all star.

Not sure what this proves then.

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 10:11 PM
Lol what about Hibbert against Chandler in this years playoffs. Who was better?

Maybe you guys didn't watch him against the Knicks which wouldn't surprise me from some front runners.

Chandler was sick and injured during the playoffs. Not to mention Roy wasn't even dominating the NYK like he did against Miami.

WARRIORS@GR
07-09-2013, 10:30 PM
Not sure what this proves then.
Proves that you used a wrong example with Curry.He dominated for 3 months+ while Hibbert dominated a 7 game series.

Captain Moroni
07-09-2013, 10:36 PM
Looking at the lists, if Brook Lopez is ranked as the second best center in the NBA.... There has never been a time where centers are weaker in the NBA.

Disgusting.

FOBolous
07-09-2013, 10:40 PM
Where do u have hibbert among centers in the nba today?

1. Howard- even when injured he still was the best in the game last season
2. Brook Lopez-hated on for whatever odd reason, went for 19 and 7 boards to go along with over 2 blocks this past season, in only 30 minutes a game while also managing to average just 2 fouls per game. Per 36 averaged 23 and 8, to go along with 2.5 blocks per 36 this past season.

from a technical perspective, this coming season will only be his 5th (do to the year he only played 5 games)

3. Roy Hibbert-had a bit of a sub par regular season(not in terms of his career stats, but in terms of progression). but showed up when it mattered, in the playoffs, averaging 17/10/2 blocks. really showed to be a force against miami, displayed that he does have a bit of an inside game. should come in strong next season, and i expect him to play about 32 minutes(which would be a career high) and average 15/9/ and 2

4. Marc Gasol- ill give him the slight edge over noah, due to the fact that he, unlike noah, has been mostly healthy for most of his career, with only 1 year sub 65 games.

5. Joahim Noah-very good center, can do a little of everything, except play at a high level in the playoffs

in the 2011 playoffs he managed 8 pts, 10 boards, and 2 blocks, 2 assists, and shot 41 % from the field at the 5 position

in the 2013 playoffs, he managed just under a double double with 10 pts 9 boards and 2 blocks. but managed just 43% from the field while taking 10 shots. last i checked, these statistics are good enough for him to be considered a volume shooting center 10 shots=10 points=No Good

coupled with him never being healthy, and that his PER has decreased in the playoffs in comparison to how he does in the regular season, while all the players i listed above him have either had their PER numbers increase, or stand pat. i think its fair to have noah at #5 on this list

This list is so depressing. There was a point in time when the top 5 included the likes of Hakeem, The Admiral, Patrick Ewing, Shaq, and Alonzo Mourning Ohh how the mighty have fallen.

nickdymez
07-09-2013, 10:47 PM
Howard is not the best center. I said this when he was a Laker and before he was. This forum really makes me wonder how many people here actually played basketball...

Loro2128
07-09-2013, 11:06 PM
1. Duncan he logged a lot of minutes at center the past few seasons
2. Marc Gasol doors what his team needs on any given night plays down low or high post good d
3. Dwight falls a bit due to injury and few other issues
4. Brook Lopez Led all centers in per and greatly improved defense 6th in blocks
5. Horford Imo he plays similar to noah but much better offensively
6 to 12 Noah Chandler Al Jefferson Monroe Bosh Demarcus Cousins KG Then you have the rest like Larry Sanders Hibbert Asik Pekovic Vucevic Drummond

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 11:09 PM
Howard is not the best center. I said this when he was a Laker and before he was. This forum really makes me wonder how many people here actually played basketball...

:laugh:

InYoBicCuddy
07-09-2013, 11:13 PM
1. Duncan he logged a lot of minutes at center the past few seasons
2. Marc Gasol doors what his team needs on any given night plays down low or high post good d
3. Dwight falls a bit due to injury and few other issues
4. Brook Lopez Led all centers in per and greatly improved defense 6th in blocks
5. Horford Imo he plays similar to noah but much better offensively
6 to 12 Noah Chandler Al Jefferson Monroe Bosh Demarcus Cousins KG Then you have the rest like Larry Sanders Hibbert Asik Pekovic Vucevic Drummond


marc gasol, who managed to play just 4 more games than an injured dwight howard, and averaged 14, 8 and 4, on sub 50% shooting, and 45% in the playoffs is ranked above howard, who even while injured, managed to out rebound, out score (on less shot attempts btw), have a higher fg%, more ft attempts, and gasol is the better player???

WOW

haters really gotta hate i guess

nickdymez
07-09-2013, 11:21 PM
:laugh:

Whats that stupid *** laughing head all about? You think Howard is the best center in the league? With absolutely no offensive game? You think so? Did you watch him play?

FOBolous
07-09-2013, 11:25 PM
:laugh:

he's a butt hurt Lakers fan trying to bait.

Loro2128
07-09-2013, 11:25 PM
marc gasol, who managed to play just 4 more games than an injured dwight howard, and averaged 14, 8 and 4, on sub 50% shooting, and 45% in the playoffs is ranked above howard, who even while injured, managed to out rebound, out score (on less shot attempts btw), have a higher fg%, more ft attempts, and gasol is the better player???

WOW

haters really gotta hate i guess
Lol no hate intended i jus prefer a guy like Gasol who will play hard on every play and makes it easier that he is able to adapt to what his team needs and is an 84% ft shooter Numbers were not as great as Dwight but his team did great and he had a big role in that besides that's jus my opinion

nickdymez
07-09-2013, 11:41 PM
he's a butt hurt Lakers fan trying to bait.

yea.. Thats what Houston fans are trying to say and its hilarious to me. Lakers fans are just fine. We were excited just like you are right now and was let down miserably.

OceanSpray
07-09-2013, 11:43 PM
yea.. Thats what Houston fans are trying to say and its hilarious to me. Lakers fans are just fine. We were excited just like you are right now and was let down miserably.

Last I checked, Howard willingly went to Houston. That wasn't the cause in LAL.

nickdymez
07-09-2013, 11:56 PM
Last I checked, Howard willingly went to Houston. That wasn't the cause in LAL.

makes no sense at all.. But ok. Everyone on earth is killing Dwight but:

1. Houston fans for obvious reasons
2. Heat fans because Lebron started the hoe ****..

OceanSpray
07-10-2013, 12:01 AM
makes no sense at all.. But ok. Everyone on earth is killing Dwight but:

1. Houston fans for obvious reasons
2. Heat fans because Lebron started the hoe ****..

How doesn't that make any sense? Howard never wanted to play for LAL, he willingly chose to play for Houston. It's pretty much a given Howard never wanted to play in LAL to begin with. You're a glorified hater. You're the same person who said Kobe is a winner and that LeBron/Howard don't have it in them.. Yet LeBron has won rings, twice in a row. I'm only supporting Howard because you fans think you're entitled to have anyone just because you're the LAL. Not everyone wants to play for the Lakers, stop complaining and lets see where Kobe's killer mentality gets you. Watch LAL not even make the playoffs and then the excuses come rolling in.

nickdymez
07-10-2013, 12:05 AM
How doesn't that make any sense? Howard never wanted to play for LAL, he willingly chose to play for Houston. It's pretty much a given Howard never wanted to play in LAL to begin with. You're a glorified hater. You're the same person who said Kobe is a winner and that LeBron/Howard don't have it in them.. Yet LeBron has won rings, twice in a row. I'm only supporting Howard because you fans think you're entitled to have anyone just because you're the LAL. Not everyone wants to play for the Lakers, stop complaining and lets see where Kobe's killer mentality gets you. Watch LAL not even make the playoffs and then the excuses come rolling in.

Why are we talking about Kobe being a winner when he has 5 rings? And played for one team?

WARRIORS@GR
07-10-2013, 12:06 AM
makes no sense at all.. But ok. Everyone on earth is killing Dwight but:

1. Houston fans for obvious reasons
2. Heat fans because Lebron started the hoe ****..
I'm not a heat or rockets fan,and I really dislike Dwight.
But if you do not admit that last year was a bad situation for him,you're delusional.
Injuries,bad coach,old team,and Kobe being Kobe had a lot to do with him leaving.

OceanSpray
07-10-2013, 12:13 AM
Why are we talking about Kobe being a winner when he has 5 rings? And played for one team?

Cause you're nothing but a hater. You wanted Howard to stay in the LAL and when he left, you come up with a bunch of excuses to express your emotions. I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Not even your LAL peers agree with your assumptions.

nickdymez
07-10-2013, 12:13 AM
I'm not a heat or rockets fan,and I really dislike Dwight.
But if you do not admit that last year was a bad situation for him,you're delusional.
Injuries,bad coach,old team,and Kobe being Kobe had a lot to do with him leaving.

Kobe being Kobe? He had one of his best years. If he's not man enough to try and take responsibility for his short comings like everyone else on the Lakers did, then he's delusional. Not me.

nickdymez
07-10-2013, 12:15 AM
Cause you're nothing but a hater. You wanted Howard to stay in the LAL and when he left, you come up with a bunch of excuses to express your emotions. I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Not even your LAL peers agree with your assumptions.

Wrong. I didn't care if Dwight stayed. If a man is dumb enough to leave LA (and 30 million dollars), then so be it.

OceanSpray
07-10-2013, 12:20 AM
Wrong. I didn't care if Dwight stayed. If a man is dumb enough to leave LA (and 30 million dollars), then so be it.

You don't care if Dwight stayed also implies that you can't care if Dwight leaves. So why have you been so annoyed with Howard? Someone here is being dishonest. Apparently, it's dumb because someone doesn't want to play for LAL.. Good argument.

WARRIORS@GR
07-10-2013, 12:26 AM
Kobe being Kobe? He had one of his best years. If he's not man enough to try and take responsibility for his short comings like everyone else on the Lakers did, then he's delusional. Not me.I wasn't talking about Kobe in-game.You know Kobe's personality,he wants everybody to perform perfectly,and if they don't he will bash them..He's done that with Gasol too.

Could you tell me what could happen to the Heat if Lebron started talking **** about Bosh or Wade in the playoffs?

nickdymez
07-10-2013, 12:43 AM
I wasn't talking about Kobe in-game.You know Kobe's personality,he wants everybody to perform perfectly,and if they don't he will bash them..He's done that with Gasol too.

Could you tell me what could happen to the Heat if Lebron started talking **** about Bosh or Wade in the playoffs?

Kobe just wants people to try hard and want to win. Lebron and Kobe are two different people.

nickdymez
07-10-2013, 12:43 AM
You don't care if Dwight stayed also implies that you can't care if Dwight leaves. So why have you been so annoyed with Howard? Someone here is being dishonest. Apparently, it's dumb because someone doesn't want to play for LAL.. Good argument.

Ok Heat/Cav fan...

WARRIORS@GR
07-10-2013, 12:50 AM
Kobe just wants people to try hard and want to win. Lebron and Kobe are two different people.So Lebron doesn't want to win lol.I guess it's proven the last 2 years.
I'll stop it here,i won't turn it into a lebron/Kobe thread especially talking to an established lebron hater.

Nonbar
07-10-2013, 12:58 AM
I rank him top 5 behind DH12, Bynum, Gasol, KG

THE MTL
07-10-2013, 01:08 AM
Next season I have him taking huge strides. We glimpses of dominance in the playoffs against the knicks and especially against the heat. I have him as the 3rd best overall center

sunsfan88
07-10-2013, 05:59 AM
Dwight
M. Gasol
Hibbert
Lopez
Noah

For those saying that Hibbert didn't produce in the regular season, maybe watch some regular season games and understand that teams hard doubled and triple teamed Hibbert leading him to kick it out to other scorers. Paul George, George Hill, David West all wouldn't have had such great seasons without Hibbert demanding so much attention.

krisxsong
07-10-2013, 06:09 AM
better than Brook Lopez IMO. He's not unfairly hated on, it's just difficult to ignore his poor rebounding numbers.

I would go

Dwight
Hibbert
Lopez

And Hibbert's sub .500 FG% year in and year out is so easy to ignore right?

krisxsong
07-10-2013, 06:13 AM
Dwight
M. Gasol
Hibbert
Lopez
Noah

For those saying that Hibbert didn't produce in the regular season, maybe watch some regular season games and understand that teams hard doubled and triple teamed Hibbert leading him to kick it out to other scorers. Paul George, George Hill, David West all wouldn't have had such great seasons without Hibbert demanding so much attention.

Teams CONSTANTLY doubled and tripled Lopez. The problem was Wallace and Evans couldn't throw the ball into an ocean if their lives depended on it so nobody paid attention to them.

IMO it goes

Dwight
Gasol
Duncan
Lopez/Noah
Lopez/Noah
Chandler
Pekovic
Varejao
Hibbert
Bogut

Yes Hibbert is huge but he's incredibly inefficient year in and year out and to say that's okay cause he gets doubled and tripled teamed is so stupid. Dwight was double and triple teamed in Orlando all the time. Lopez is constantly doubled teamed. Duncan is double teamed.

sunsfan88
07-10-2013, 06:25 AM
Teams CONSTANTLY doubled and tripled Lopez. The problem was Wallace and Evans couldn't throw the ball into an ocean if their lives depended on it so nobody paid attention to them.

IMO it goes

Dwight
Gasol
Duncan
Lopez/Noah
Lopez/Noah
Chandler
Pekovic
Varejao
Hibbert
Bogut

Yes Hibbert is huge but he's incredibly inefficient year in and year out and to say that's okay cause he gets doubled and tripled teamed is so stupid. Dwight was double and triple teamed in Orlando all the time. Lopez is constantly doubled teamed. Duncan is double teamed.
I know Dwight gets double teamed and still does well, that's why I rank him as #1 C in NBA.

And Lopez IMO is the best offensive C in the NBA but he lacks the all around game that guys like Dwight, M Gasol and Hibbert have IMO.

Also, playing with Deron Williams and Joe Johnson helps Lopez a lot.

NBA-GMaster
07-10-2013, 06:36 AM
Based on last season, My Top 10:
1. Marc Gasol
2. Tim Duncan
3. Dwight Howard
4. Al Horford
5. Joakim Noah
6. Brook Lopez
7. Al Jefferson
8. DeMarcus Cousins
9. Roy Hibbert
10. Tyson Chandler

MyDRoseLikeDeng
07-10-2013, 06:44 AM
1.Howard
2. Hibbert
3. Gasol
4. Noah
5. Lopez

the brave eagle
07-10-2013, 06:48 AM
you can't look at stats, you have to look at which center is the most important to they're team, an to be honest without hibbert on the court, they're just a totally different team that couldn't make the playoffs in the west (east is too easy to get my point across) then i would say marc gasol an then howard, until howard shows me that dominance he had in orlando, then he goes to number 1, then i round it out to lopez an noah, you can easily flip flop those 2

krisxsong
07-10-2013, 06:48 AM
I know Dwight gets double teamed and still does well, that's why I rank him as #1 C in NBA.

And Lopez IMO is the best offensive C in the NBA but he lacks the all around game that guys like Dwight, M Gasol and Hibbert have IMO.

Also, playing with Deron Williams and Joe Johnson helps Lopez a lot.

So did Devin Harris, Travis Outlaw, Kris Humphries, and Anthony Morrow help Lopez a lot too, cause he used to score a ton back then as well.

He lacks an all around game like Dwight and Hibbert? What in the world are you talking about? Dwight and Hibbert have no offensive game, thus they aren't all around players.

Guppyfighter
07-10-2013, 07:45 AM
Center is the weakest position in the NBA.

Uh uh. You are dead wrong.

krisxsong
07-10-2013, 08:29 AM
Uh uh. You are dead wrong.

Yeah he's really wrong.

IMO it's easily PF.

Pacerlive
07-10-2013, 02:06 PM
So did Devin Harris, Travis Outlaw, Kris Humphries, and Anthony Morrow help Lopez a lot too, cause he used to score a ton back then as well.

He lacks an all around game like Dwight and Hibbert? What in the world are you talking about? Dwight and Hibbert have no offensive game, thus they aren't all around players.

The answer is your question is yes. Devin Harris as a Net averaged something like 17 pgg and 7 assist. Now no one would say that the 2008-11 teams were as good as the Nets have now and its no suprise that Brook Lopez FG% went from .496% to .521% with a solid team around him.

Hibberts best pg's were Darren Collison,TJ Ford and Ghill all of which I would have gladly traded for Devin Harris while he was a Net. This is why Hibberts assisted numbers have never apporoached Howards, Lopez, or any of the aftermentioned players.

Looking at the top NBA centers I think you have to look at rebounds, overall defense and offense over the last 3 or so years.

Dwight scores well in all three even with no great post moves.

Hibbert scores well in two (rebounds and overall defense).

Lopez socres well in one (offense) and is mediocre in rebounds and overall defense. He can improve his rebounding numbers but they really have regressed from his first 2 season averages.

Marc Gasol scores well in Defense and rebounds but I think at best he is the second best center in the league.

Noah does well in 2 areas but isn't much of an offensive threat outside having a pg who can dish it to him for easy buckets.

I also should mention that Hibbert was dealt one of the worst coaches especially for his skill set in Jim O'Brien and he had the worst set of pgs for easy buckets hence why his FG% were bad when compared to the other Centers in this thread.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2013, 02:48 PM
Yeah he's really wrong.

IMO it's easily PF.

Love
Gasol
Dirk
Griffin
Randolph
Milisap
Ibaka

The SG position is probably the weakest

FOBolous
07-10-2013, 03:21 PM
technically, the center position is the strongest because, on average, they can lift more than anyone else.

Blitzbolt
07-10-2013, 06:51 PM
Zbo was top 5 rebounds and with no gay Gasol had to take a lot of long rage 2s.hurting his stats

xxplayerxx23
07-10-2013, 07:06 PM
Love
Gasol
Dirk
Griffin
Randolph
Milisap
Ibaka

The SG position is probably the weakest

Wade
Kobe
Kobe
Kobe
Harden
Kobe
Looks pretty strong to me ;)

xxplayerxx23
07-10-2013, 07:07 PM
Love
Gasol
Dirk
Griffin
Randolph
Milisap
Ibaka

The SG position is probably the weakest

Also forgot lma

krisxsong
07-10-2013, 07:18 PM
Love
Gasol
Dirk
Griffin
Randolph
Milisap
Ibaka

The SG position is probably the weakest

Bryant
Wade
Harden
Gordon
Ginobli
Johnson
Igoudala
George(once Granger comes back)

IMO PF list is weaker. No stars, a couple of all-stars, and some role players.

Raidergrant
07-10-2013, 07:28 PM
I'm not trying to be a homer but what about Demarcus Cousins???? No one in this forum is even mentioning him. He is top 5 for sure and I would take him any day over Hibbert. Cuz is more skilled and averaged more points and rebounds during the season. I even saw that someone had bogut on their top 10 and not Cuz, lol. Mark my words, in a couple years Cousins will be the best center in the league. Even better then Dwight. Dwight's game does not evolve. He rebounds, blocks shots and dunks. He has no post game and can't pass. Cousins had a post game and a mid range game. He can pass well and rebounds at a high rate. Also for you guys who think he does not play D, chech out how many charges Cuz takes during the year. He is always around the tops every year.
My top 10 in order right now:

Marc Gasol
Dwight Howard
Noah
Cousins
Brook Lopez
Greg Monroe
Roy Hibbert
Al Jefferson
Al Horford
Pekovic

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-10-2013, 07:28 PM
At their healthiest:

1. Dwight
2. Lopez
3. Noah
4. Gasol
5. Bynum
6. Hibbert

abe_froman
07-10-2013, 07:33 PM
I'm not trying to be a homer but what about Demarcus Cousins???? No one in this forum is even mentioning him.
very inefficient scorer for a bigman,needs to work on defense and turnovers to be in the top 5

krisxsong
07-10-2013, 07:34 PM
At their healthiest:

1. Dwight
2. Lopez
3. Noah
4. Gasol
5. Bynum
6. Hibbert

If ALL of them are 100% healthy I'd say'

1. Dwight
2. Gasol
3. Bynum
4. Lopez
5. Noah
6. Chandler

krisxsong
07-10-2013, 07:34 PM
I'm not trying to be a homer but what about Demarcus Cousins???? No one in this forum is even mentioning him. He is top 5 for sure and I would take him any day over Hibbert. Cuz is more skilled and averaged more points and rebounds during the season. I even saw that someone had bogut on their top 10 and not Cuz, lol. Mark my words, in a couple years Cousins will be the best center in the league. Even better then Dwight. Dwight's game does not evolve. He rebounds, blocks shots and dunks. He has no post game and can't pass. Cousins had a post game and a mid range game. He can pass well and rebounds at a high rate. Also for you guys who think he does not play D, chech out how many charges Cuz takes during the year. He is always around the tops every year.
My top 10 in order right now:

Marc Gasol
Dwight Howard
Noah
Cousins
Brook Lopez
Greg Monroe
Roy Hibbert
Al Jefferson
Al Horford
Pekovic

Cousins has the potential to be by far the best big man in the NBA.

TrueFan420
07-10-2013, 07:59 PM
I think a lot of people are overlooking a healthy Bogut.

Pacerlive
07-10-2013, 09:39 PM
To all "if he's healthy guys" its a tad bit silly don't you think. Bynums knees are bad. Boguts career got completely derailed with his elbow and wrist injury. Its also quite possible that howard will have chronic back problems.

Sometimes you have to smell the roses and realize that certain guys are falling off from their glory days.

WadeKobe
07-10-2013, 10:29 PM
1) Howard
2) Chandler
3) Noah
4) Gasol

Hibbert falls with some other center's after that.

WadeKobe
07-10-2013, 10:30 PM
Chandler is easily #2. I can't fathom how little love he's received.

VCaintdead17
07-10-2013, 10:33 PM
Chandler is easily #2. I can't fathom how little love he's received.

Lol no

dalton749
07-10-2013, 10:50 PM
chandler is garbage
good defender but absolutely no offensive game at all
Drummond and valanciunas will be better than him next year

Loro2128
07-10-2013, 10:57 PM
Chandler is good but not number 2 lol still Sticking to my list!

WadeKobe
07-10-2013, 11:00 PM
Over the last 3 years, Chandler's ranks:

WinShares: 2nd
WinsProduced: 1st

It is no coincidence that he won a championship, changed teams, and the Knicks immediately turned around. He has been the best player on the Knicks for two straight years.

VCaintdead17
07-10-2013, 11:10 PM
Over the last 3 years, Chandler's ranks:

WinShares: 2nd
WinsProduced: 1st

It is no coincidence that he won a championship, changed teams, and the Knicks immediately turned around. He has been the best player on the Knicks for two straight years.

If you're evaluating a player solely off of win shares you have some problems

WadeKobe
07-10-2013, 11:20 PM
If you're evaluating a player solely off of win shares you have some problems

He consistently does more things that win his team games. This is reflected in the fact that both win metrics agree he contributes more to winning than any center not named Dwight.

Secondly, the main job of a center is to protect the rim, rebound other team's misses, and finish at the rim. He does those things better than anyone not named Dwight Howard and it is not coincidental that his teams win an are better on defense when he is there.

I want to win. Therefore, I will grade players on their ability to perform and contribute to winning.

Skill is meaningless if it doesn't translate into production.

Loro2128
07-10-2013, 11:47 PM
I have him rank number 7 on my list and looking at the list again i think he at the correct rank

Greet
07-10-2013, 11:55 PM
Chandler is easily #2. I can't fathom how little love he's received.

1.) Sup Ben, how have you been?

2.) Don't agree with this. I would probably take Gasol, Howard, Lopez over Chandler.

Wade n Fade
07-11-2013, 01:05 AM
Hibbert is in the 7-10 area. He just needs some consistency. One game he can look like a dominant center (vs Miami in 7 game series) or just an anemic offensive player. He has room to grow, but he is a solid all-around center for Indiana to build around.

dalton749
07-11-2013, 01:14 AM
if chandler is second best, this league is in terrible shape at the center position

WadeKobe
07-11-2013, 01:56 AM
if chandler is second best, this league is in terrible shape at the center position

According to what?

OceanSpray
07-11-2013, 01:58 AM
I think you're all overlooking Noah. Can pass, rebound, hustles every play, has a decent amount of offensive scoring tactics, and can certainly defend.

WadeKobe
07-11-2013, 02:18 AM
i think you're all overlooking noah. Can pass, rebound, hustles every play, has a decent amount of offensive scoring tactics, and can certainly defend.

#3 imo

RiceOnTheRun
07-11-2013, 02:21 AM
Center is the weakest position in the NBA.

Center has always been one of the thinnest positions. Finding a skilled 7 footer is juuuust a bit harder than finding a skilled 6 foot guy.

I'd keep Dwight at #1. 17/12 in an off year? Not to mention better defensive stats too (not talking about BPG, but points allowed). Yes please.

I honestly can't even rank the next 4 in any order. Any one of Hibbert, Gasol, Noah and Lopez could arguably be second, depending on what you really value in a center. I think Hibbert has the most potential overall out of the four. Gasol would probably be the best defender. Noah is an absolute hustle player, probably top 3 in the league in that regard. Lopez is already the best offensively and potential-wise, I think his ceiling could be around 25/8 in a few years.

If I had to do a 2013/14 ranking though,

Howard
Hibbert
Noah
Lopez
Gasol

Howard would hopefully, be healthier and play along with Harden to try and get back to his normal numbers. Hibbert is going to have one of those breakout years, using the momentum from the playoffs to put up some really solid numbers. Noah will have a bit of the pressure taken off of him if Rose ever comes back; I don't see his numbers improving too much, but his performance overall should be better along with more efficiency. Lopez will take some time to adjust playing next to KG, but I think he'd pick up a few things from him and better his game as a result. Gasol is the one which imo, is closest to his peak. Still remain a dominant center, could definitely hold his own against any of the other four on any given night but I think potential wise, he's not going to have any really big growth any time soon.

krisxsong
07-11-2013, 05:41 AM
Chandler is easily #2. I can't fathom how little love he's received.

LOL no. #2 is EASILY Marc Gasol.

krisxsong
07-11-2013, 05:42 AM
I think you're all overlooking Noah. Can pass, rebound, hustles every play, has a decent amount of offensive scoring tactics, and can certainly defend.

Decent amount of scoring tactics, LOL! Sure maybe if you compare him to Reggie Evans.

Noah can't score, period. You give him the ball and ask him to score he can't. His points come off cuts, and put backs.

krisxsong
07-11-2013, 05:48 AM
Over the last 3 years, Chandler's ranks:

WinShares: 2nd
WinsProduced: 1st

It is no coincidence that he won a championship, changed teams, and the Knicks immediately turned around. He has been the best player on the Knicks for two straight years.

What?

The Knicks immediately turned around? Turned around to what?

Prior to getting Tyson, They went 42-40 in 2010-2011, albeit that was when Melo was traded there and they Knicks were better before they made the Melo trade that year.

Next season Tyson comes along. Record? Knicks went 36-30. It was a shortened season. Using their win%, they would have won 44 games in a full season, not a big improvement. Also, they were the 7th seed. Soooo as soon as they got Tyson they immediately turned things around?

sunsfan88
07-11-2013, 06:21 AM
So did Devin Harris, Travis Outlaw, Kris Humphries, and Anthony Morrow help Lopez a lot too, cause he used to score a ton back then as well.

He lacks an all around game like Dwight and Hibbert? What in the world are you talking about? Dwight and Hibbert have no offensive game, thus they aren't all around players.
Let me put it this way, Dwight and Hibbert have more offensive game than Lopez has defensive game.

the brave eagle
07-11-2013, 06:42 AM
let's face it, there's really no weak position...i mean yeah there might be a lack of star power for centers, but what are they there for? blocks, rebounds pretty much an if you average a double double you're a good center

PHX2daDEATH
07-11-2013, 06:57 AM
Rank him third behind Gasol and Noah....what do they all 3 have in common? They anchor, GOOD defenses..In todays league centers do not need to score much anymore unless you are Dwight Howard....Gasol and Noah are not necessarily good low post players but they are GOOD passers..Hibbert not so much, he's got to get better at moving the ball when he's double teamed.. and really work on his turnovers..it also hinders him that Indiana should be force feeding him the most of the time but can't because he's not reliable enough in the post.Dwight Howard gets 4th, only because he admitted he needed to be coddled and have his ego stroked..m

Pacerlive
07-11-2013, 08:55 AM
I think you're all overlooking Noah. Can pass, rebound, hustles every play, has a decent amount of offensive scoring tactics, and can certainly defend.

I just think its hilarious you called it scoring tactics. As anyone didn't know that he basically gets his scoring off of tip backs and a pg handing him the ball 2 feet from the basket.

Pacerlive
07-11-2013, 10:17 AM
He consistently does more things that win his team games. This is reflected in the fact that both win metrics agree he contributes more to winning than any center not named Dwight.

Secondly, the main job of a center is to protect the rim, rebound other team's misses, and finish at the rim. He does those things better than anyone not named Dwight Howard and it is not coincidental that his teams win an are better on defense when he is there.

I want to win. Therefore, I will grade players on their ability to perform and contribute to winning.

Skill is meaningless if it doesn't translate into production.
So my guess is you didn't break down why his win shares is so high and maybe you don't care but I will point out the obvious.

Most people would assume Tyson's win shares would be largely due to his defense and that would be completely wrong.

His defensive win shares over the last two years ranks below Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol and Noah and those were just the ones I looked up so I wouldn't be surprised if there were more.

So why his is offensive win shares so inflated when everyone knows he has no offensive game and he barely gets 10 ppg? It's because he is efficient as a result of being assisted by his pg. It's no surprise when you give him Kirk Hinrick his assisted numbers drop to 51% and so does his OWS (1.5) but give him Felton and he is assisted 74% of his possessions and his OWS go to 5.7 and 6.8.

All metrics are flawed to some degree but the only thing Tyson really excels at is offensive rebounding and on a team full of chuckers that is pretty valuable.

MrfadeawayJB
07-11-2013, 11:23 AM
Hibbert is being overrrated bcuz of the playoffs.

1. Howard
2. Marc Gasol
3. Noah
4. Lopez
5. Pek
6. Hibbert


This but switch pek and Hibbert

OceanSpray
07-11-2013, 01:20 PM
I just think its hilarious you called it scoring tactics. As anyone didn't know that he basically gets his scoring off of tip backs and a pg handing him the ball 2 feet from the basket.

And he can shoot the jumper. What do you know? I said decent, he has more moves than most centers.

OceanSpray
07-11-2013, 01:21 PM
Decent amount of scoring tactics, LOL! Sure maybe if you compare him to Reggie Evans.

Noah can't score, period. You give him the ball and ask him to score he can't. His points come off cuts, and put backs.

I never said he could score. He has a decent amount of offensive capabilities that allow him to be useful on both ends.

Rockice_8
07-11-2013, 01:38 PM
Let me put it this way, Dwight and Hibbert have more offensive game than Lopez has defensive game.

What? Lopez is one of the best shot blockers in the league. I know defense isn't all about shot blocking but he is pretty good at protecting the paint and altering shots. Where Lopez is lacks is in man to man D. Hibbert scores like 12 ppg and has yet to shoot 50% from the field in any season. He's 7'2" and only shoots near the rim, that is atrocious. He doesn't even have range that would be an excuse for a lower FG%. He has one of the worst offensive games for a C. I think Noah has a better offensive game than him and Noah can't post up at all.

There is a decent drop off from Dwight, Lopez, Gasol, and Noah. After them the rest are average players at best.

Pacerlive
07-11-2013, 02:21 PM
And he can shoot the jumper. What do you know? I said decent, he has more moves than most centers.

Actually I know quite a lot so let me explain.

You say he can shoot a jumper but he efg% is .325.

So yes he can shot a jumper but he just won't hit it ,,,smh.

OceanSpray
07-11-2013, 04:19 PM
Actually I know quite a lot so let me explain.

You say he can shoot a jumper but he efg% is .325.

So yes he can shot a jumper but he just won't hit it ,,,smh.

Last I checked, 42.1 is pretty decent. Hibbert is 42% as well.

Greet
07-11-2013, 04:39 PM
Let me put it this way, Dwight and Hibbert have more offensive game than Lopez has defensive game.

That's wrong. Lopez stepped up his defense tremendously last season. He became a top shot blocker, and if this year he can develop into more of a shot changer then he will be fine.

But there is no offensive center like Lopez in the NBA right now.

IKnowHoops
07-11-2013, 06:50 PM
If he's playing against the Heat he is the best player in the NBA. Ive never seen a player in any playoff series give the Heat as much trouble as Hibbert gave them.

Pacerlive
07-11-2013, 08:19 PM
Last I checked, 42.1 is pretty decent. Hibbert is 42% as well.

Noah

Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 35% .367 81% 8% 2.4
Close 39% .480 67% 15% 3.6
Dunk 11% .853 86% 9% 1.8
Tips 16% .480 0% 1% 1.4
Inside 65% .541 58% 10% 6.8


http://www.82games.com/1213/12IND16.HTM

Edit: I used 2011 season before which is my mistake.

Pacerlive
07-12-2013, 12:46 PM
What? Lopez is one of the best shot blockers in the league. I know defense isn't all about shot blocking but he is pretty good at protecting the paint and altering shots. Where Lopez is lacks is in man to man D. Hibbert scores like 12 ppg and has yet to shoot 50% from the field in any season. He's 7'2" and only shoots near the rim, that is atrocious. He doesn't even have range that would be an excuse for a lower FG%. He has one of the worst offensive games for a C. I think Noah has a better offensive game than him and Noah can't post up at all.

There is a decent drop off from Dwight, Lopez, Gasol, and Noah. After them the rest are average players at best.

IF you want to know why Roy FG% has been so low then I think you have to factor in his injury last year and how assisted he really is by his point guard.

Looking at all the starting NBA Centers over the last 2 years Roy Hibbert has been assisted the least in close at the rim. He is dead last on easy buckets from his point guard so there is a reason his FG% isn't like Marcin Gortat in his glory days playing for the Suns.

From 3 to 9 feet Roy Hibbert is as good as Brook Lopez in FG% and that is where most post up big man games are.

Give Roy Hibbert Tony Parker, Deron Williams or a healthy Derrick Rose and his numbers would be much better.

JeremiahWing
07-12-2013, 01:01 PM
Hibbert will be #1 after this season. Howard will be 4th or 5th. It's his year to be exposed. No more excuses, no one else to blame.

Blitzbolt
07-12-2013, 01:34 PM
Gasol does a little of everything while others are good at only one or 2 things plus gasol will last longer since he never uses his athleticism.