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AI
07-06-2013, 07:48 PM
After the trade, I have the Brooklyn Nets at $100.5 mil in guaranteed salary which, with luxury tax translates to roughly $80.2 million in tax - so $180.7 million in total payroll.

That will be an NBA record . . .

Eric Pincus of Hoopsworld

http://sulia.com/channel/basketball/f/ef17f849-4c58-44e0-8bb3-102c46463e8c/?source=twitter

ManningToTyree
07-06-2013, 07:49 PM
Proky doesn't give a **** about how much he has to spend

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 07:51 PM
Holy ****, that's Yankees level spending lol.

koreancabbage
07-06-2013, 07:54 PM
sad thing is that they aren't going to be the best team in the NBA even with that payroll. the owner is probably treating the nets as some kind of toy and he just wants the best without working for it.

More-Than-Most
07-06-2013, 08:01 PM
That Payroll and I do not even have them as a top 10 team overall... Just in the east the Bulls/Heat/Pacers/Knicks are better. Add the spurs/Rockets/Warriors/Grizzles/Clippers/Nuggets/Thunder and they are somewhere around 10 or 11. That much money and no shot at a championship while killing their future. Winner

MrfadeawayJB
07-06-2013, 08:02 PM
Prohkorav really doesn't care he'll keep spending

Pacerlive
07-06-2013, 08:03 PM
I love the revenue sharing here in Indy. Correct me if I am wrong but all tax payer teams lose out on the part of tax penalty cost that get redistributed among the 25 or so teams not in the LT.

spreadeagle
07-06-2013, 08:12 PM
wowzas, and they are not even that good on paper. we will have to wait and see how it turns out I guess

Bostonjorge
07-06-2013, 08:48 PM
Still 2nd best team in east. Pacers and bulls are right behind them. Knicks are getting bounced first rd. last 3 spots will be worst 3 teams in playoffs that year.

jam
07-06-2013, 08:51 PM
Even with DRose back I don't think they have the pieces to challenge the heat. Either the bulls FO is to too cheap to pursue the big names, and/or the big names don't want to play for the bulls.

The knicks are still a good team, but they don't have a clear path to the second round like they did last season.


Still 2nd best team in east. Pacers and bulls are right behind them. Knicks are getting bounced first rd. last 3 spots will be worst 3 teams in playoffs that year.

AI
07-06-2013, 08:53 PM
Still 2nd best team in east. Pacers and bulls are right behind them. Knicks are getting bounced first rd. last 3 spots will be worst 3 teams in playoffs that year.

Out of all those teams you mentioned guess who was the only one to get bounced in the first round?

JerseyPalahniuk
07-06-2013, 08:55 PM
before anyone questions Prok's financial intelligence:

Prokhorov paid $223M for 80% of #Nets AND 45% of Barclays 3 years ago.

The Sacramento Kings just sold for $534 million. Wonder what the valuation of the Nets franchise is right now...

Matrix3132
07-06-2013, 08:55 PM
That Payroll and I do not even have them as a top 10 team overall... Just in the east the Bulls/Heat/Pacers/Knicks are better. Add the spurs/Rockets/Warriors/Grizzles/Clippers/Nuggets/Thunder and they are somewhere around 10 or 11. That much money and no shot at a championship while killing their future. Winner

Come on, if they're healthy, with the experience and intensity kg/pierce are bringing, they're easily a top 10 team

ohreally
07-06-2013, 08:58 PM
That Payroll and I do not even have them as a top 10 team overall... Just in the east the Bulls/Heat/Pacers/Knicks are better. Add the spurs/Rockets/Warriors/Grizzles/Clippers/Nuggets/Thunder and they are somewhere around 10 or 11. That much money and no shot at a championship while killing their future. Winner

Vastly under rating this team, even if they do have Kidd as a coach.

More-Than-Most
07-06-2013, 08:58 PM
Come on, if they're healthy, with the experience and intensity kg/pierce are bringing, they're easily a top 10 team

Of these 10 teams who are they better than?

Heat/Pacers/Bulls/Thunder/Spurs/Knicks/Grizz/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors

Maybe the Knicks but those West teams are ridiculous and they are behind the pacers/Bulls/Heat in the East. I myself hate the knicks but still have the knicks slightly better.

Lakers Ghost
07-06-2013, 08:59 PM
for once it isnt the lakers

Chronz
07-06-2013, 09:03 PM
Porky is the best thing to happen to the NBA. Will help keep this sport afloat for a long time.

Matrix3132
07-06-2013, 09:08 PM
Of these 10 teams who are they better than?

Heat/Pacers/Bulls/Thunder/Spurs/Knicks/Grizz/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors

Maybe the Knicks but those West teams are ridiculous and they are behind the pacers/Bulls/Heat in the East. I myself hate the knicks but still have the knicks slightly better.

I'd say they're better than the knicks/grizz and worse than the heat. The rest are all up in the air for me. The spurs might finally hit that wall after overpaying splitter, manu playing OLD, and timmy also a year older. OKC lost martin and I think a lot of the west caught up to them.

Highlanderlaker
07-06-2013, 09:17 PM
Of these 10 teams who are they better than?

Heat/Pacers/Bulls/Thunder/Spurs/Knicks/Grizz/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors

Maybe the Knicks but those West teams are ridiculous and they are behind the pacers/Bulls/Heat in the East. I myself hate the knicks but still have the knicks slightly better.


There better then the Knicks without a doubt and IMO they are better then Memphis and Houston. I think ur over rating the addition of d12 to Houston and under estimating kg,pierce and Jason terry going to bk. Houston is gonna be ok if they can get a bench and a starting pf.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 09:21 PM
before anyone questions Prok's financial intelligence:

Prokhorov paid $223M for 80% of #Nets AND 45% of Barclays 3 years ago.

The Sacramento Kings just sold for $534 million. Wonder what the valuation of the Nets franchise is right now...

Probably $0 because no one wants that long term burden in taxes.

phantasyyy
07-06-2013, 09:31 PM
Of these 10 teams who are they better than?

Heat/Pacers/Bulls/Thunder/Spurs/Knicks/Grizz/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors

Maybe the Knicks but those West teams are ridiculous and they are behind the pacers/Bulls/Heat in the East. I myself hate the knicks but still have the knicks slightly better.

nets >> pacers knicks clips warriors

KnickaBocka.44
07-06-2013, 09:34 PM
:laugh2:

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 09:35 PM
nets >> pacers knicks clips warriors

lol no. just plain no.

More-Than-Most
07-06-2013, 09:37 PM
nets >> pacers knicks clips warriors

Well that is pretty adorable

waveycrockett
07-06-2013, 09:41 PM
Yea we suck. We should just cut all these guys.

waveycrockett
07-06-2013, 09:41 PM
Well that is pretty adorable

So is your green ranger avy

More-Than-Most
07-06-2013, 09:59 PM
So is your green ranger avy

Thank You. Bestest Baddest rangerest ranger of them all.

noodle
07-06-2013, 10:06 PM
Nets>>>psd basketball forum experts.

xxplayerxx23
07-06-2013, 10:07 PM
:laugh: nets have below average rebounders and there better then the pacers or bulls :laugh2: on paper they may be better then the Knicks but even if they are

It's heat pacers bulls better for sure Knicks (close)
West thunder, clippers, gsw, Houston for sure
And grizz maybe

MaloDaw9
07-06-2013, 10:07 PM
Yay Nets!

blahblahyoutoo
07-06-2013, 10:54 PM
That Payroll and I do not even have them as a top 10 team overall... Just in the east the Bulls/Heat/Pacers/Knicks are better. Add the spurs/Rockets/Warriors/Grizzles/Clippers/Nuggets/Thunder and they are somewhere around 10 or 11. That much money and no shot at a championship while killing their future. Winner

nets are better than knicks and nuggets out of that bunch.

Chill_Will_24
07-06-2013, 11:02 PM
sad thing is that they aren't going to be the best team in the NBA even with that payroll. the owner is probably treating the nets as some kind of toy and he just wants the best without working for it.

Wrong. Prokhorov wants to win at all costs. Whether it will come to pass or not is anyone's guess but the guy will spend whatever it takes.

I bet Kevin Durant and Russel Westbrook wouldnt mind having an owner who spends like this. Something the Nets are surely savvy to seeing as they made the BOS deal with the 2016 FA class in mind. Wallace deal would have hurt them then but they managed to trade him (still shocked that BOS took that deal) and JJ will be a huge expiring that summer.

Also without that "terrible contract" they gave Humphries this deal doesnt get done. There seems to be a method to the Russian's madness.

Chill_Will_24
07-06-2013, 11:04 PM
:laugh2: You mean the Pacers we swept in the season and the Knicks who got worse?

Heat
Nets
Bulls
Pacers
Knicks

Chill_Will_24
07-06-2013, 11:07 PM
Not good on paper? That seems to me where they are best

"on paper" they have the best team in the east and maybe the league. "on paper" they have an all star starting lineup with a solid bench.

In reality i doubt they are as good as on paper.

jp611
07-06-2013, 11:14 PM
Sets a record for the best payroll to be 2nd round fodder

Good for them

AI
07-06-2013, 11:20 PM
:laugh2: You mean the Pacers we swept in the season and the Knicks who got worse?

Heat
Nets
Bulls
Pacers
Knicks

The Knicks got worse because they replaced Novak and Camby with Bargnani? I've seen it all. Also, the Knicks destroyed the Heat in the regular season, that must mean they are better than Miami right?

I seem to remember a team last year that acquired two "stars" and were swept out of the first round. You don't win games in the offseason, there's no reward for being "good on paper". Until they actually go out and prove they can play together and gel, the Nets are behind the Heat, Bulls, Pacers and Knicks. That simple.

dtmagnet
07-06-2013, 11:21 PM
What a fail.

Chill_Will_24
07-06-2013, 11:43 PM
I would bring up every statistical reason why the Knicks getting Bargs is a fail but i expect i would be wasting my time.

Bargnani is absolute sloppy regurgitated by a cat dog crap.

Yes nothing is won on paper (see the Heat on 2010 with their stage shenanigans). However its not like this Nets team is just a bunch of thrown together stars.

Its safe to say that the nets are better than the Knicks now. Possibly the Pacers and maybe the Bulls depending on how Rose returns. I only see the Heat as clearly better and thats because outside KG the Nets lack the defense to hang with them.

However you are severely underestimating the impact that KG brings to a team. the Nets biggest problem was interior defense and toughness. It was their BIGGEST problem. The Bulls bullied them inside. They started Reggie Evans at PF most of the season (lol)!!! Every team in the league abused us in the PnR. Everything changes with KG without even him having to score a single point!

Dont need to even bring up the little dirty tactics that KG employs to help win games more the fact that he now gives Deron Williams (who btw is now healthy, cut and in shape per instagram) a legitimate pick and pop/roll target with real screens for a change. No more doubling and abusing Deron and Brook because Reggie Evans sucks.

No more leaving Wallace wide open because he cannot shoot with Pierce in his place.

This is not about winning games on paper. Its about understanding why this team underperformed last year and why those issues have been rectified.

BTW the Miami Heat and Knicks arent great rebounding teams either. Rebounding is an overrated statistic. But since you mention we still have our best rebounder. Reggie didnt go nowhere. he will just be benched. If we are getting killed on the boards he can be inserted in depending on the matchup.

This is not the same team.

--23--
07-06-2013, 11:58 PM
Spending that much money they better win a championship. :laugh2:


Of these 10 teams who are they better than?

Heat/Pacers/Bulls/Thunder/Spurs/Knicks/Grizz/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors

Maybe the Knicks but those West teams are ridiculous and they are behind the pacers/Bulls/Heat in the East. I myself hate the knicks but still have the knicks slightly better.

Right now, I think they're better than the Knicks.

MELO 15
07-07-2013, 12:08 AM
Haters gonna hate!

MELO 15
07-07-2013, 12:09 AM
Finally my 1000th! Post?!

cssdmark
07-07-2013, 12:45 AM
Knicks
Heat
Pacers
Bulls
Nets

cssdmark
07-07-2013, 12:53 AM
I would bring up every statistical reason why the Knicks getting Bargs is a fail but i expect i would be wasting my time.

Bargnani is absolute sloppy regurgitated by a cat dog crap.

Yes nothing is won on paper (see the Heat on 2010 with their stage shenanigans). However its not like this Nets team is just a bunch of thrown together stars.

Its safe to say that the nets are better than the Knicks now. Possibly the Pacers and maybe the Bulls depending on how Rose returns. I only see the Heat as clearly better and thats because outside KG the Nets lack the defense to hang with them.

However you are severely underestimating the impact that KG brings to a team. the Nets biggest problem was interior defense and toughness. It was their BIGGEST problem. The Bulls bullied them inside. They started Reggie Evans at PF most of the season (lol)!!! Every team in the league abused us in the PnR. Everything changes with KG without even him having to score a single point!

Dont need to even bring up the little dirty tactics that KG employs to help win games more the fact that he now gives Deron Williams (who btw is now healthy, cut and in shape per instagram) a legitimate pick and pop/roll target with real screens for a change. No more doubling and abusing Deron and Brook because Reggie Evans sucks.

No more leaving Wallace wide open because he cannot shoot with Pierce in his place.

This is not about winning games on paper. Its about understanding why this team underperformed last year and why those issues have been rectified.

BTW the Miami Heat and Knicks arent great rebounding teams either. Rebounding is an overrated statistic. But since you mention we still have our best rebounder. Reggie didnt go nowhere. he will just be benched. If we are getting killed on the boards he can be inserted in depending on the matchup.

This is not the same team.
You are wasting your time. Pierce is done and KG is a year older. You guys will finish 5th if Derek Rose is not to scared to play on his leg, if he is I will give the Nets 4th seed.

uprightciti
07-07-2013, 12:58 AM
Nets are ****ing trash.

Heat vs clippers finals

Pacers vs heat in the Ecf nothing else matters

Basketball is just the Lebrun show right now...boring

IversonIsKrazy
07-07-2013, 01:54 AM
Damn. Both NY teams spend a whole lotta $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Chill_Will_24
07-07-2013, 03:05 AM
Garnett: 14pts and 7rebs 49% from the field with elite defense

Pierce: 18pts, 5ast, and 4rebs 43% from the field

Those numbers dont scream "done" to me

They scream vets that need to have their minutes monitored ala Spurs which they could not afford with the Rondo injury

c.c.
07-07-2013, 03:31 AM
Nets are ****ing trash.

Heat vs clippers finals

Pacers vs heat in the Ecf nothing else matters

Basketball is just the Lebrun show right now...boring

Clippers? :confused:

GunFactor187
07-07-2013, 03:40 AM
http://cdn.meme.li/instances/300x300/39482558.jpg

c.c.
07-07-2013, 03:47 AM
Net worth 13.5 billion. Who cares about money, sure not him. He's set for life

sunsfan88
07-07-2013, 04:01 AM
It must be nice to be rich and Russian...

More-Than-Most
07-07-2013, 04:44 AM
It must be nice to be rich and Russian...

Have you seen their girls :drool:

c.c.
07-07-2013, 04:45 AM
It must be nice to be rich and Russian...

Rich and American, even better. I'd court side at every Rockets game like Spike Lee be at the Knicks games

imagesrdecievin
07-07-2013, 07:32 AM
Proky gets it. He has the big market and the top notch venue - all's that's left is to build a consistent winner.

Put those three things together and it's a recipe for a cash cow. He's recouping his investment just in the value of the franchise.

But he's a smarter business man than that - he's capitalizing on the momentum that he has and is running with it. All of this overspending is ensuring that the borough of Brooklyn (and the rest of NY) stays invested. It's also ensuring that the rest of the world keeps on buying their merchandise.

People on here can poke at the Nets for "not even being that good on paper" but the fact is the Brooklyn Nets are more relevant in every way possible than the NJ Nets have ever been and Proky's spending has A LOT to do with that.

There are a ton of bandwagon Nets fans and Propky is sparing no cost in trying to turn them into die-hards.

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 09:02 AM
:laugh2: You mean the Pacers we swept in the season and the Knicks who got worse?

Heat
Nets
Bulls
Pacers
Knicks

What the hell? Your better then the bulls lmao get out. Wait Knicks got worse how?

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 09:06 AM
Also yeah try and discredit the fact that granger is back their best scorer.. You can say on paper your better then the Knicks but no way you Are better then a healthy bulls or pacers. On paper kg still has it but pierce has lost 3 steps.

DR_1
07-07-2013, 09:13 AM
Also yeah try and discredit the fact that granger is back their best scorer.. You can say on paper your better then the Knicks but no way you Are better then a healthy bulls or pacers. On paper kg still has it but pierce has lost 3 steps.

This, although Pierce hasn't lost THAT much. East will be much more fun this year though. I got it loooking like:

1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Pacers
4. Nets
5. Knicks

Although these spots could change, but I think this is most likely.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 09:18 AM
What the hell? Your better then the bulls lmao get out. Wait Knicks got worse how?

By getting older and not getting any better

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 09:18 AM
This, although Pierce hasn't lost THAT much. East will be much more fun this year though. I got it loooking like:

1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Pacers
4. Nets
5. Knicks

Although these spots could change, but I think this is most likely.


Any of these 5 can be the 1 seed lol. I expect Miami to be but wouldn't shock me.. And pierce did lose it. He lost arc in his shot he is slow on defense. Kg lost a little effort in the rebounding game but he has the mid range and defense is still nasty.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 09:20 AM
This, although Pierce hasn't lost THAT much. East will be much more fun this year though. I got it loooking like:

1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Pacers
4. Nets
5. Knicks

Although these spots could change, but I think this is most likely.
I think everyone is going to see how overrated the Pacers and Roy Hibbert are next season.

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 09:20 AM
By getting older and not getting any better

Wanna be more specific? What was the big piece that left ?

king4day
07-07-2013, 09:21 AM
People really enjoy ripping the Nets.
On paper, they have a really sound team. A lot of 'ifs' but they most certainly have a chance at a ring.

They have two big men who will make it tough for any front court to score in. They have 3 guys who can score and shoot.
I sense people are more upset that they don't have an owner who doesn't care about the luxury tax.

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 09:21 AM
I think everyone is going to see how overrated the Pacers and Roy Hibbert are next season.

Except their best scorer is back

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 09:23 AM
People really enjoy ripping the Nets.
On paper, they have a really sound team. A lot of 'ifs' but they most certainly have a chance at a ring.

They have two big men who will make it tough for any front court to score in. They have 3 guys who can score and shoot.
I sense people are more upset that they don't have an owner who doesn't care about the luxury tax.

Do you see their reactions? They have a chance but what makes them better then the bulls or pacers!

king4day
07-07-2013, 09:42 AM
Do you see their reactions? They have a chance but what makes them better then the bulls or pacers!

I think of the 5 teams people are listing, Chicago, right now, would be the team to take a small step back. They lost Bellineli and will probably lose Nate. They will get Rose back but depth is the concern. Nate played out of his mind. Not sure how many more wins Rose will give them.

ManRam
07-07-2013, 10:03 AM
at a certain point it doesn't matter how much over the cap you are if you're owner doesn't give a ****. that's why i don't get why people would be so against the trade. they were in cap hell anyways, why not continue it but get better? the only person it affects is proky.

not a bad thing at all...for the nets or the league.

they won't win a championship, but whatever.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 10:03 AM
Except their best scorer is back

He's not their best scorer anymore. Not by a long shot.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 10:06 AM
Wanna be more specific? What was the big piece that left ?

Tyson Chandler's prime. JR Smith's contract year motivation. Jason Kidd who was huge for the Knicks during the regular season. Copeland who was huge for the Knicks in the postseason.

ManRam
07-07-2013, 10:24 AM
He's not their best scorer anymore. Not by a long shot.

If healthy he absolutely is. If you think PG is a better scorer than Granger when Granger is healthy you're wrong. Granger has shown he can score more and do so more efficiently.

Unless you mean West, which I doubt. But even though that's closer, Granger is superior.

Now, can he be that when he comes back? Maybe not. But he is only 30.

cssdmark
07-07-2013, 11:12 AM
Garnett: 14pts and 7rebs 49% from the field with elite defense

Pierce: 18pts, 5ast, and 4rebs 43% from the field

Those numbers dont scream "done" to me

They scream vets that need to have their minutes monitored ala Spurs which they could not afford with the Rondo injury

I am telling you Knicks do not need to be concerned with the Nets, the Nets got older. I do understand the experience factor but how did that experience factor workout for the Knicks against the Pacers. Oh it did not. Last memories I have of Pierce against us is Pierce always dribbling the ball off of his foot and turning it over. If you got those two guys five years ago then I would say your team would be favored to win the championship but it is not 5 years ago. The Knicks picked up a soft 7 footer who willl match up with your soft 7 footer (Lopez). I actually like both Pierce and Garnett but at this point I am not worried about them. We have better teams to worry about Heat, Pacers and Bulls.

astonmartin10
07-07-2013, 11:15 AM
That's a lot of money. But when you have a owner like that why not. Wish more owners would spend to try to win.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 11:20 AM
3 first rounders for a one year rental

mjt20mik
07-07-2013, 11:42 AM
3 first rounders for a one year rental

Boston is laughing

cssdmark
07-07-2013, 11:48 AM
I am not mad at the crazy russian spending to win, reminds me of the late, great Steinbrenner but if you are going to spend way over the cap why not spend it on young atheletic studs instead of old players past their prime

hugepatsfan
07-07-2013, 11:57 AM
at a certain point it doesn't matter how much over the cap you are if you're owner doesn't give a ****. that's why i don't get why people would be so against the trade. they were in cap hell anyways, why not continue it but get better? the only person it affects is proky.

not a bad thing at all...for the nets or the league.

they won't win a championship, but whatever.

Not only that but they were already past the luxury tax threshold for this season and the next 2. Shedding Wallace without taking a player back with as long a deal actually gets them below that threshold a year earlier. So you could even look at this trade as improving their financial position.

Byronicle
07-07-2013, 11:57 AM
KG and Pierce are very very old. They are not going to have much of an impact on the Nets because now they are playing behind 2 to 3 other starters whereas before they were the 2 main guys on the Celtics. This trade is going to put the Nets way back

ManRam
07-07-2013, 12:02 PM
KG and Pierce are very very old. They are not going to have much of an impact on the Nets because now they are playing behind 2 to 3 other starters whereas before they were the 2 main guys on the Celtics. This trade is going to put the Nets way back

those guys aren't signed to long-term deals though. they're in it to win it now. late-round draft picks aren't terribly valuable. only time will tell if the picks they gave up actually will hurt them.

i don't think this screws their future much even if at all.

29$JerZ
07-07-2013, 12:30 PM
Well the Nets are not better than Miami so all this we are better than XYZ talk is pointless.
They should be better but not by much. They have to compensate with their new additions by going them a ton of rest and hoping Deron actually has a top 5 pg season from start to finish.

I still see Miami/Chicago having better record than them and I think both Indy and NY can beat them as well.
Those are pretty muh the top 5 teams in the East. All depends on matchups now.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 12:41 PM
Well the Nets are not better than Miami so all this we are better than XYZ talk is pointless.
They should be better but not by much. They have to compensate with their new additions by going them a ton of rest and hoping Deron actually has a top 5 pg season from start to finish.

I still see Miami/Chicago having better record than them and I think both Indy and NY can beat them as well.
Those are pretty muh the top 5 teams in the East. All depends on matchups now.

With the front court the Nets now have we matchup better with the Heat than any team in the NBA. But I agree the Bulls and Heat will have a better record than us simply because we will be saving the legs of our stars for the postseason. I think we will finish with around 53 wins or so.

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 12:48 PM
With the front court the Nets now have we matchup better with them than any team in the NBA. But I agree the Bulls and Heat will have a better record than us simply because we will be saving the legs of our stars for the postseason. I think we will finish with around 53 wins or so.

Did you just say the Nets have the best frontcourt in the NBA?

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 12:51 PM
Did you just say the Nets have the best frontcourt in the NBA?

I didn't think I had to say it. Thought it was fairly obvious. And if in a hater's mind we are not THE BEST we are certainly top-3 at worst.

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 12:59 PM
He's not their best scorer anymore. Not by a long shot.

I know your not that stupid if you think Paul George or even Roy Hibbert being a better scorer then Danny granger. And in response to your other comment lol. Oh really now, jr smith only played well to get a new contract? Yet he didn't get big money? Tyson is Ganna stop playing defense because he went from 29 to 30 years old? Jason Kidd didn't score for 25+ games.. Copeland is easily replaceable, he is solid but please your so wrong

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 01:00 PM
I didn't think I had to say it. Thought it was fairly obvious. And if in a hater's mind we are not THE BEST we are certainly top-3 at worst.

You probably shouldnt say it considering what you got out of "the league's best backcourt" last season.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:03 PM
I know your not that stupid if you think Paul George or even Roy Hibbert being a better scorer then Danny granger. And in response to your other comment lol. Oh really now, jr smith only played well to get a new contract? Yet he didn't get big money? Tyson is Ganna stop playing defense because he went from 29 to 30 years old? Jason Kidd didn't score for 25+ games.. Copeland is easily replaceable, he is solid but please your so wrong
And I know your not stupid enough to think a 30 year old Danny Granger coming off major knee surgery and whose scoring has DECLINED every year since 2008 is a better scorer than Paul George.


Is players playing out of ther minds in a contract year a new concept for you or something? Plus you gave the biggest party animal in the NBA 24 million dollars. Good luck with that.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 01:03 PM
With the front court the Nets now have we matchup better with the Heat than any team in the NBA. But I agree the Bulls and Heat will have a better record than us simply because we will be saving the legs of our stars for the postseason. I think we will finish with around 53 wins or so.

Heat would rip apart the Nets lack of foot speed and pick and roll defense. It wouldn't be much different than it was last year. KG can't make up for 4 guys who don't want to defend, and the Nets are trying to mold past scoring stars into role players. Guys like Pierce/Johnson need to be dirty work guys who operate on limited touches and thats not what they have ever done. Lopez needs to be a positive player when hes not scoring 20 ppg. Nets will win 1 more game than they did last year.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:04 PM
You probably shouldnt say it considering what you got out of "the league's best backcourt" last season.

Nah I thought that was supposed to be Nash and Kobe :speechless:

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 01:05 PM
And I know your not stupid enough to think a 30 year old Danny Granger coming off major knee surgery and whose scoring has DECLINED every year since 2008 is a better scorer than Paul George.


Is players playing out of ther minds in a contract year a new concept for you or something? Plus you gave the biggest party animal in the NBA 24 million dollars. Good luck with that.

What a joke.. Danny granger on the quote on quote decline is still a better scorer then Paul George it's not close. And lol he played out of his mind okay.. Ill sig bet he has a similar year then he did last year maybe a little but down but close enough

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:07 PM
Heat would rip apart the Nets lack of foot speed and pick and roll defense. It wouldn't be much different than it was last year. KG can't make up for 4 guys who don't want to defend, and the Nets are trying to mold future scoring stars into role players. Guys like Pierce/Johnson need to be dirty work guys who operate on limited touches and thats not what they have ever done. Lopez needs to be a positive player when hes not scoring 20 ppg. Nets will win 1 more game than they did last year.

Lack of "Foot Speed"??? LMAO. And we'd rip apart their lack of not having anybody who can defend the paint. Not only do we have the best starting front court in the NBA we also have Andray Blatche and Reggie Evans coming off the bench who could start for a lot of teams in the NBA.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 01:08 PM
Lack of "Foot Speed"??? LMAO. And we'd rip apart their lack of not having anybody who can defend the paint. Not only do we have the best starting front court in the NBA we also have Andray Blatche and Reggie Evans coming off the bench who could start for a lot of teams in the NBA.

Yes, lack of foot speed. Nets are slow at every position, Heat are one of the fastest teams in the NBA. Nets are not good enough defensively or athletic enough to make them play half court like a team like Indy can. Heat will run them off the court the same way they did last year and it won't be close.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:09 PM
What a joke.. Danny granger on the quote on quote decline is still a better scorer then Paul George it's not close. And lol he played out of his mind okay.. Ill sig bet he has a similar year then he did last year maybe a little but down but close enough

Granger is a better scorer than the guy whose been drawing comparisons as the future T-Mac for the past 2 seasons? Ok dude. Than why have they put him in every trade rumor that team has?

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 01:10 PM
Nah I thought that was supposed to be Nash and Kobe :speechless:

Nice attempt at deflection but everyone on this site knows what you and DMF were saying a year ago.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:10 PM
Yes, lack of foot speed. Nets are slow at every position, Heat are one of the fastest teams in the NBA. Nets are not good enough defensively or athletic enough to make them play half court like a team like Indy can. Heat will run them off the court the same way they did last year.

The Celtics were slow at every position in 2011. The Heat really tore them up.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:11 PM
Nice attempt at deflection but everyone on this site knows what you and DMF were saying a year ago.

Irrelevant. Even with Deron Williams not getting healthy until March they were still one of the best on a BAD year.

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 01:13 PM
Irrelevant. Even with Deron Williams not getting healthy until March they were still one of the best on a BAD year.

"Irrelevant" LOL, nice. You think JJ is going to get better with less shots now?

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 01:14 PM
The Celtics were slow at every position in 2011. The Heat really tore them up.

Outside of Pierce nobody on the Celtics were slow for their respective positions, and they had great defenders all over the place.

Greet
07-07-2013, 01:17 PM
Of these 10 teams who are they better than?

Heat/Pacers/Bulls/Thunder/Spurs/Knicks/Grizz/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors

Maybe the Knicks but those West teams are ridiculous and they are behind the pacers/Bulls/Heat in the East. I myself hate the knicks but still have the knicks slightly better.

They are better than the Bulls, Knicks, Grizz, Clippers. They could compete with any team on your list though. We've never seen a team so complete through their 1-5, and with a pretty good bench as well.

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 01:19 PM
They are better than the Bulls, Knicks, Grizz, Clippers. They could compete with any team on your list though. We've never seen a team so complete through their 1-5, and with a pretty good bench as well.

Zero chance they are in front of the Bulls or the Clips. Did you watch that series? And have you seen what the Clippers have done? You out your mind homie.

xxplayerxx23
07-07-2013, 01:20 PM
Granger is a better scorer than the guy whose been drawing comparisons as the future T-Mac for the past 2 seasons? Ok dude. Than why have they put him in every trade rumor that team has?

Because Paul George is the future

Greet
07-07-2013, 01:22 PM
:laugh: nets have below average rebounders and there better then the pacers or bulls :laugh2: on paper they may be better then the Knicks but even if they are

It's heat pacers bulls better for sure Knicks (close)
West thunder, clippers, gsw, Houston for sure
And grizz maybe

Huh? Kevin Garnett is still a good rebounder, Paul Pierce is a great rebounder for his position, Joe Johnson is good as well. Brook Lopez averaged only 1 less rebound than Marc Gasol (Who is considered one of the best centers in the NBA), we also have Reggie Evans on the bench.

Greet
07-07-2013, 01:23 PM
Zero chance they are in front of the Bulls or the Clips. Did you watch that series? And have you seen what the Clippers have done? You out your mind homie.

Did I watch what series??????

Clippers aren't as good as most people think. Lopez/Garnett/Blatche would dominate Griffin/Jordan.

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 01:24 PM
Huh? Kevin Garnett is still a good rebounder, Paul Pierce is a great rebounder for his position, Joe Johnson is good as well. Brook Lopez averaged only 1 less rebound than Marc Gasol (Who is considered one of the best centers in the NBA), we also have Reggie Evans on the bench.

Joe Johnson is not a good rebounder. He averaged 3 boards per game last year.

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 01:25 PM
Did I watch what series??????

Clippers aren't as good as most people think. Lopez/Garnett/Blatche would dominate Griffin/Jordan.

The Bulls/Nets series. The Bulls beat them with Deng and Noah both hurt or hurting. Rose will be back next year, you know, and hes not going to be a shell of himself.

The Clippers added Darren Collison, J.J. Redick and Jared Dudley. If they add a decent backup big then they are title contenders out west.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:31 PM
"Irrelevant" LOL, nice. You think JJ is going to get better with less shots now?

I think he will be more effective in less minutes. He played too much last season. 37 MPG is crazy for anyone let alone a guy who is 31.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:32 PM
Outside of Pierce nobody on the Celtics were slow for their respective positions, and they had great defenders all over the place.

So KG is now suddenly not slow.

Greet
07-07-2013, 01:32 PM
The Bulls/Nets series. The Bulls beat them with Deng and Noah both hurt or hurting. Rose will be back next year, you know, and hes not going to be a shell of himself.

The Clippers added Darren Collison, J.J. Redick and Jared Dudley. If they add a decent backup big then they are title contenders out west.

The Nets added Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Jason Terry. Also lets not forget that Joe Johnson was playing injured, and Deron Williams will be healthy for the first time in 3 years.

Sure other teams upgraded, but so did the Nets. Also the Bulls are losing some of their good depth next year, we don't know how that will translate in wins, even with Rose coming back.

Also, I really do think the Clippers are becoming one of the more overrated teams now. I think they are a good team no doubt, but I don't trust their bigs at all.

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 01:33 PM
I think he will be more effective in less minutes. He played too much last season.

Who's going to take away from his minutes?

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 01:40 PM
Who's going to take away from his minutes?

I think him and PP will have a share. I dont think they will play together too much. Obviously Jason Terry will be playing a good chunk of minutes at SG off the bench and our Euro Bogdanovic who scouts love will play alot at the 2/3 spot.

IKnowHoops
07-07-2013, 02:09 PM
Of these 10 teams who are they better than?

Heat/Pacers/Bulls/Thunder/Spurs/Knicks/Grizz/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors

Maybe the Knicks but those West teams are ridiculous and they are behind the pacers/Bulls/Heat in the East. I myself hate the knicks but still have the knicks slightly better.

Just the Knicks, and maybe the bulls.

Hawkeye15
07-07-2013, 02:18 PM
Their owner is paying $180 million for a team that won't contend. Amazing.

Greet
07-07-2013, 02:21 PM
Their owner is paying $180 million for a team that won't contend. Amazing.

Won't contend? Oh come on

KnickaBocka.44
07-07-2013, 02:30 PM
The Nets added Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Jason Terry. Also lets not forget that Joe Johnson was playing injured, and Deron Williams will be healthy for the first time in 3 years.

Sure other teams upgraded, but so did the Nets. Also the Bulls are losing some of their good depth next year, we don't know how that will translate in wins, even with Rose coming back.

Also, I really do think the Clippers are becoming one of the more overrated teams now. I think they are a good team no doubt, but I don't trust their bigs at all.

There are way too many holes in this for me to address them now, I have faith one of my comrades here can articulate them.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 02:32 PM
So KG is now suddenly not slow.

Not when he's playing Center.

effen5
07-07-2013, 03:03 PM
The Nets added Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Jason Terry. Also lets not forget that Joe Johnson was playing injured, and Deron Williams will be healthy for the first time in 3 years.

Sure other teams upgraded, but so did the Nets. Also the Bulls are losing some of their good depth next year, we don't know how that will translate in wins, even with Rose coming back.

Also, I really do think the Clippers are becoming one of the more overrated teams now. I think they are a good team no doubt, but I don't trust their bigs at all.

Don't even talk about the Bulls and their depth again. It doesn't matter who the Bulls have on their bench, we have Thibs and he'll get the most out of any team with any bench. I've heard the "bulls are losing their bench mob" plenty the last couple of years and its barely affected the team. FYI, with no Derrick Rose, and played mostly with our bench last year, we won 4 less games than you did.

JEDean89
07-07-2013, 03:06 PM
wow, if a single one of their starting 5 was worth their contract they would be the best team ever. still i think it was a good move, it gives the nets the best possible chance of winning, even if it isn't that high. still, this team isn't beating the heat, paying Joe Johnson 20 mil dollars doesn't make him a Star, Pierce looked broken last year and if a single one of these guys gets injured the team is screwed. the bench is shaping up to be awful and J-Kidd has extremely high expectations as a first time coach. so cheers nets! if i was a net fan i would be thrilled about these acquisitions, KG is the real deal and can definitely get your team to the 2nd round and maybe the conference finals but you're not beating any teams with pierce and joe johnson as your wings. even though they make 35 mil dollars, they are going to get absolutely obliterated by the leagues incredible wing players. they don't have a single elite perimeter defender. that will probably end up being the teams downfall.

JEDean89
07-07-2013, 03:06 PM
Don't even talk about the Bulls and their depth again. It doesn't matter who the Bulls have on their bench, we have Thibs and he'll get the most out of any team with any bench. I've heard the "bulls are losing their bench mob" plenty the last couple of years and its barely affected the team. FYI, with no Derrick Rose, and played mostly with our bench last year, we won 4 less games than you did.

and beat them in the playoffs

effen5
07-07-2013, 03:08 PM
and beat them in the playoffs
Yes sir.

29$JerZ
07-07-2013, 04:05 PM
With the front court the Nets now have we matchup better with the Heat than any team in the NBA. But I agree the Bulls and Heat will have a better record than us simply because we will be saving the legs of our stars for the postseason. I think we will finish with around 53 wins or so.

No you don't. You match up horribly to Miami.
Indy matches up way better with George/West/Hibbert, they just need a PG who won't turn it over evey minute.
Chicago matches up way better with Deng/Butler/Noah. The Knicks play Miami's game and just outscore them from the 3 and have Tyson.

Brooklyn's makeup doesn't do anything to make Miami's life hard. You don't have guys like Butler/George/Shumpert to bother Wade/LeBron and you don't have the 3pt ball to outscore them.
You guys had a fully healthy Lopez and it didnt mean anything against any of your meetings with Miami.
Having the advantage at PG/C means nothing if Miami's 2-3-4 are superior to your's which they are.

You should be able to reach 50 wins but despite having the largest payroll ever you still won't beat Miami. Chicago/Indy/Knicks are more probable to knock off the Heat than Brooklyn is IMO.

Hawkeye15
07-07-2013, 04:33 PM
Won't contend? Oh come on

what is your idea of a contender?

omdigga
07-07-2013, 04:40 PM
Like a Boss... Proky dont give a @#$%...

i really think proky wants to be the best team in Ny more than the best team in the league at this point.. and with this deal .. it looks like he might have gotten it done..

Im a knicks fan, i cant wait till we play brooklyn... games are gonna be intense..

Celticsfan2007
07-07-2013, 04:47 PM
I hate the Nets, but people are severely underratting the aquisitions of KG, PP and JT.

These guys have been the man in the past and now all they are being asked to do is be solid role players and add something to this team.

I still expect to see Dwill and Blope taking a bulk of the shots, but KG will absolutely change the culture of this defense regardless of his age. That dude only knows one speed, and thats 125%.

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 05:36 PM
Their owner is paying $180 million for a team that won't contend. Amazing.

And the T'Wolves are paying how much for team that wont even win 40 games?

waveycrockett
07-07-2013, 05:53 PM
No you don't. You match up horribly to Miami.
Indy matches up way better with George/West/Hibbert, they just need a PG who won't turn it over evey minute.
Chicago matches up way better with Deng/Butler/Noah. The Knicks play Miami's game and just outscore them from the 3 and have Tyson.

Brooklyn's makeup doesn't do anything to make Miami's life hard. You don't have guys like Butler/George/Shumpert to bother Wade/LeBron and you don't have the 3pt ball to outscore them.
You guys had a fully healthy Lopez and it didnt mean anything against any of your meetings with Miami.
Having the advantage at PG/C means nothing if Miami's 2-3-4 are superior to your's which they are.

You should be able to reach 50 wins but despite having the largest payroll ever you still won't beat Miami. Chicago/Indy/Knicks are more probable to knock off the Heat than Brooklyn is IMO.
Your wrong as usual. Your premise is that the Nets wont be able to stop LeBron. Welcome to 2013. Nobody can stop LeBron but thanks for stating the obvious. We wont have to slow down Wade his knees are doing a good enough job of that by themselves. HEAT have nobody to stop Lopez, KG, Deron, Blatche and our bench is much better than theirs.

ohreally
07-07-2013, 06:21 PM
I hate the Nets, but people are severely underratting the aquisitions of KG, PP and JT.

These guys have been the man in the past and now all they are being asked to do is be solid role players and add something to this team.

I still expect to see Dwill and Blope taking a bulk of the shots, but KG will absolutely change the culture of this defense regardless of his age. That dude only knows one speed, and thats 125%.

Pretty much how I see it. KG and Pierce will be able to play limited minutes in most games and both are going to teach Lopez and Blatche and Teletovic and Bogdanovich. Nets' bench has improved a lot.

cssdmark
07-07-2013, 07:28 PM
Did I watch what series??????

Clippers aren't as good as most people think. Lopez/Garnett/Blatche would dominate Griffin/Jordan.
Now all of a sudden Blatche is Hakeem Olajuwan, are you kidding. The Nets will win one more game this year but the Knicks will win 60 so you still will not win the Atlantic. Yes the Nets have the best 1-5 if this was 2006 but this is 2013-2014. Just stop.

mexican dodger
07-07-2013, 07:30 PM
Doesn't beat the dodgers

cssdmark
07-07-2013, 07:32 PM
Your wrong as usual. Your premise is that the Nets wont be able to stop LeBron. Welcome to 2013. Nobody can stop LeBron but thanks for stating the obvious. We wont have to slow down Wade his knees are doing a good enough job of that by themselves. HEAT have nobody to stop Lopez, KG, Deron, Blatche and our bench is much better than theirs..
Post this again after you pick up some young guys, until then I will tell you how it was
Heat
Knicks
Pacers
Nets
Bulls

and you can telll me how it should be

Heat
Nets
Pacers
Bulls
Knicks

Greet
07-07-2013, 08:31 PM
Don't even talk about the Bulls and their depth again. It doesn't matter who the Bulls have on their bench, we have Thibs and he'll get the most out of any team with any bench. I've heard the "bulls are losing their bench mob" plenty the last couple of years and its barely affected the team. FYI, with no Derrick Rose, and played mostly with our bench last year, we won 4 less games than you did.

So do you think that with a possible healthy Derrick Rose, and the lose of Nate Robinson(6 WS) + Marco Belinelli (3 WS) is going to translate into more wins than the Nets who added Paul Pierce (7 WS) + Kevin Garnett (5.6 WS) + Jason Terry (4 WS)

Let it be known that as you pointed out: The Nets won more game last year

Greet
07-07-2013, 08:32 PM
what is your idea of a contender?

Being a top 4 seed, because virtually any other seed doesn't have a chance to win the NBA championship

AI
07-07-2013, 08:33 PM
So do you think that with a possible healthy Derrick Rose, and the lose of Nate Robinson(6 WS) + Marco Belinelli (3 WS) is going to translate into more wins than the Nets who added Paul Pierce (7 WS) + Kevin Garnett (5.6 WS) + Jason Terry (4 WS)

Let it be known that as you pointed out: The Nets won more game last year

The Nets also lost to the Rose-less, Deng-less Bulls in the 1st round last year.

They lost Belinelli but added another shooter in Dunleavy to replace him.

Jimmy Butler will only get better. They are still the better team.

Greet
07-07-2013, 08:34 PM
Now all of a sudden Blatche is Hakeem Olajuwan, are you kidding. The Nets will win one more game this year but the Knicks will win 60 so you still will not win the Atlantic. Yes the Nets have the best 1-5 if this was 2006 but this is 2013-2014. Just stop.

When did anyone say that about Blatche? He was one of the best bench players last year, that's about this.

Name a team with a better 1-5 throughout, maybe Miami is the only one.

Greet
07-07-2013, 08:36 PM
The Nets also lost to the Rose-less, Deng-less Bulls in the 1st round last year.

They lost Belinelli but added another shooter in Dunleavy to replace him.

Jimmy Butler will only get better. They are still the better team.

Last year is irrelevant because these are both much different teams right now. The Bulls don't win that series without Nate Robinson and Marco Belinelli.

Yes Jimmy Butler will get better, he's a great player. Lets not forget that Brook Lopez is only 25 and Deron Williams will finally be healthy.

ohreally
07-07-2013, 08:37 PM
.
Post this again after you pick up some young guys, until then I will tell you how it was
Heat
Knicks
Pacers
Nets
Bulls

and you can telll me how it should be

Heat
Nets
Pacers
Bulls
Knicks

Well, unless Bargs plays lots better, that should be ranks the Knicks higher than they should be.

justinnum1
07-07-2013, 08:40 PM
That Payroll and I do not even have them as a top 10 team overall... Just in the east the Bulls/Heat/Pacers/Knicks are better. Add the spurs/Rockets/Warriors/Grizzles/Clippers/Nuggets/Thunder and they are somewhere around 10 or 11. That much money and no shot at a championship while killing their future. Winner

knicks aren't better :laugh2:

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 08:52 PM
I hate the Nets, but people are severely underratting the aquisitions of KG, PP and JT.

These guys have been the man in the past and now all they are being asked to do is be solid role players and add something to this team.

I still expect to see Dwill and Blope taking a bulk of the shots, but KG will absolutely change the culture of this defense regardless of his age. That dude only knows one speed, and thats 125%.

The bold is why many people including myself don't like the moves. Former stars being asked to become role players, focus on defending, bring intangibles, and make a positive impact with nothing but leftover scraps rarely ever translates well. KG can do it, I don't think Pierce and Johnson can.

Hawkeye15
07-07-2013, 08:54 PM
And the T'Wolves are paying how much for team that wont even win 40 games?

and bringing up my team like a little troll proves what point you are trying to make?

Either stay on topic, or join DMF's as someone nobody cares about.

Greet
07-07-2013, 08:56 PM
The bold is why many people including myself don't like the moves. Former stars being asked to become role players, focus on defending, bring intangibles, and make a positive impact with nothing but leftover scraps rarely ever translates well. KG can do it, I don't think Pierce and Johnson can.

Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are the epitome of professional. I agree Joe Johnson might not be able to do it, but I have no doubt in my mind KG and PP will do it, and do it with grace.

Hawkeye15
07-07-2013, 08:57 PM
Being a top 4 seed, because virtually any other seed doesn't have a chance to win the NBA championship

well, ours completely differ. My version is a team that is showing elite ability on both sides of the floor. In the east in particular, its easy to be a top 4 seed.

I simply don't think you will have the defense, or interior toughness to even slightly match up with the Heat, let alone the Pacers. And the west has a few teams that will be better as well. Nets are not contenders as they stand right now, to me. Will they win 55-60 games? Maybe. That doesn't mean contender to me. Trampling weak teams all year did what for Cleveland?

More-Than-Most
07-07-2013, 08:58 PM
knicks aren't better :laugh2:

Both are close but I would give the push to the knicks. I wont argue against because neither to me is a legit contender but the original point stands. There is 0 chance the nets win a title with this group and no way to justify paying that much for this group.

AI
07-07-2013, 08:59 PM
and bringing up my team like a little troll proves what point you are trying to make?

Either stay on topic, or join DMF's as someone nobody cares about.

Already happened.

Young and Stupid
07-07-2013, 09:00 PM
The bold is why many people including myself don't like the moves. Former stars being asked to become role players, focus on defending, bring intangibles, and make a positive impact with nothing but leftover scraps rarely ever translates well. KG can do it, I don't think Pierce and Johnson can.

The bold is why I find your argument unconvincing.

Please provide three examples of such a scenario even occurring.

Edit: By "scenario," I mean multiple (in this case, two) former stars being asked to take on smaller offensive roles in joining a team with three, young(er), capable All-Star level players with them in the starting lineup.

Greet
07-07-2013, 09:05 PM
well, ours completely differ. My version is a team that is showing elite ability on both sides of the floor. In the east in particular, its easy to be a top 4 seed.

I simply don't think you will have the defense, or interior toughness to even slightly match up with the Heat, let alone the Pacers. And the west has a few teams that will be better as well. Nets are not contenders as they stand right now, to me. Will they win 55-60 games? Maybe. That doesn't mean contender to me. Trampling weak teams all year did what for Cleveland?

Well I would have to disagree. I do think the Nets will have the opportunity to be elite on both sides of the ball at times. The only issue some will bring up is defense, but after watching Brook Lopez improve defensively last year I do believe that he will continue his improvements. Also the Nets did sweep their season series with the Pacers last season.

I guess time will tell, but the Nets seem to me as contenders by both of our definitions.

29$JerZ
07-07-2013, 09:06 PM
Your wrong as usual. Your premise is that the Nets wont be able to stop LeBron. Welcome to 2013. Nobody can stop LeBron but thanks for stating the obvious. We wont have to slow down Wade his knees are doing a good enough job of that by themselves. HEAT have nobody to stop Lopez, KG, Deron, Blatche and our bench is much better than theirs.

Nets won't beat Miami because they have no formula to take out Miami.
Indy has size and someone to mess with LeBron, same with Chicago. Knicks basically just chuck from 3 and beat them.

Heat have no one to stop Lopez but that didn't matter much when Nets loss every game to Miami last season. Brooklyn just matches up badly against Miami. Adding Pierce/KG/Terry this late in their careers won't matter much when Wade/LeBron/Allen are still superior to them.

Brooklyn should definitely be fighting NY for the division crown but that's about as high a goal Brooklyn reaches.
Brooklyn may be able to take out the Knicks and possibly the Pacers but that's essentially your sky. That team ain't beating Chicago or Miami.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 09:22 PM
The bold is why I find your argument unconvincing.

Please provide three examples of such a scenario even occurring.

Edit: By "scenario," I mean multiple (in this case, two) former stars being asked to take on smaller offensive roles in joining a team with three, young(er), capable All-Star level players with them in the starting lineup.

Charles Barkley joining the Rockets and they got worse. Malone and GP joining the Lakers and they got worse. Nash and Dwight joining the Lakers and they got worse (Pau turned into that guy who needed to turn into a role player). You see it when Bosh struggles to make a positive impact. These lineups that get bolstered with older stars have trouble getting the gritty, scrappy role player type production out of those guys.

Role players are role players for a reason. Its not easy to mold former stars into them. I don't think Nets get worse, but I don't think they leapfrog anyone and I peg them to get 1 more win this season at 50, and I think the Heat run them off the court the same way they did this year and it won't look much different. Their perimeter speed and constant pressure is going to suffocate them. I think it will look similar to the Lakers struggles this season.

Young and Stupid
07-07-2013, 09:46 PM
Charles Barkley joining the Rockets and they got worse. Malone and GP joining the Lakers and they got worse. Nash and Dwight joining the Lakers and they got worse (Pau turned into that guy who needed to turn into a role player). You see it when Bosh struggles to make a positive impact. These lineups that get bolstered with older stars have trouble getting the gritty, scrappy role player type production out of those guys.

When Barkley joined the Rockets, they had a better record for the next two seasons than they had in 1995. Malone and Payton were both older than KG, their personalities were more explosive (within the locker room) and they joined a team with progressively worsening chemistry. I'm not going to treat Nash and Howard as a serious suggestion of an example of the scenario we see with the Nets.

Bosh is a hyper-specific example because of the his personality and playing with two of the best wing players ever in NBA history.

Do Garnett and Pierce seem like the type to lose because they're not willing to give extra effort?


Role players are role players for a reason. Its not easy to mold former stars into them. I don't think Nets get worse, but I don't think they leapfrog anyone and I peg them to get 1 more win this season at 50, and I think the Heat run them off the court the same way they did this year and it won't look much different. Their perimeter speed and constant pressure is going to suffocate them. I think it will look similar to the Lakers struggles this season.

I think athleticism and quickness on the perimeter is the team's strongest weakness. However, Pierce and Johnson have both proven to be above average defenders (when they apply themselves over stretches) and Garnett's infusion of communication on defense will have a significant impact on the team's defensive output.

Hawkeye15
07-07-2013, 10:00 PM
Well I would have to disagree. I do think the Nets will have the opportunity to be elite on both sides of the ball at times. The only issue some will bring up is defense, but after watching Brook Lopez improve defensively last year I do believe that he will continue his improvements. Also the Nets did sweep their season series with the Pacers last season.

I guess time will tell, but the Nets seem to me as contenders by both of our definitions.

Despite your additions, you brought on players that failed to live through 90 games and be effective. It was basically reaching for really old players.

By my definition, the Nets are not contenders. If they end up on both sides of an SRS in the top 10, or at least end up top 2-3 in one, top 15 in the other, I will change my tune.

I don't think they are capable with a rookie coaching staff, and zero depth.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 10:04 PM
When Barkley joined the Rockets, they had a better record for the next two seasons than they had in 1995. Malone and Payton were both older than KG, their personalities were more explosive (within the locker room) and they joined a team with progressively worsening chemistry. I'm not going to treat Nash and Howard as a serious suggestion of an example of the scenario we see with the Nets.

Bosh is a hyper-specific example because of the his personality and playing with two of the best wing players ever in NBA history.

Do Garnett and Pierce seem like the type to lose because they're not willing to give extra effort?



I think athleticism and quickness on the perimeter is the team's strongest weakness. However, Pierce and Johnson have both proven to be above average defenders (when they apply themselves over stretches) and Garnett's infusion of communication on defense will have a significant impact on the team's defensive output.

Does it need to be an exact replica of the same scenario to give it credence? Rockets were back to back champs, add Barkley and lose in the WCF, than the next season went 41-41. They got worse, and adding Pippen a year later didn't push them forward at all. Hakeem has openly stated that adding Barkley took away from the chemistry those '94 and '95 teams had.

Why wouldn't Nash and Howard be similar? Its not about the additions as much as the roster makeup after those additions - when you have star studded lineups, with former stars/current stars at nearly every position, its hard to get the role player production out of the former stars. Pau struggled big time turning into the role player he needed to be after those additions.

And its more than just 'willing to sacrifice' and 'giving extra effort'. Its actually learning to be productive players when the things your team needs out of you are things you've never been asked to do (and usually had role players provide it for them). The things you have been asked to do your whole career is no longer needed and you need to transform your game to make a positive impact. Its much easier said than done and takes players out of their comfort zones.

Can you provide some examples that counteract my point?

TRF929
07-07-2013, 10:06 PM
Bring all that tax money from Russia to to US

Caveman508
07-07-2013, 10:59 PM
They have pretty much the best starting 5 in the NBA...

sunsfan88
07-08-2013, 06:27 PM
Rich and American, even better. I'd court side at every Rockets game like Spike Lee be at the Knicks games

And then go party with the champs after every Finals....

Damn, which idiot said that money isn't everything?! lol.

sunsfan88
07-08-2013, 06:27 PM
Have you seen their girls :drool:

Not better than white and Latinas imo.

Punk
07-08-2013, 07:15 PM
That Payroll and I do not even have them as a top 10 team overall... Just in the east the Bulls/Heat/Pacers/Knicks are better. Add the spurs/Rockets/Warriors/Grizzles/Clippers/Nuggets/Thunder and they are somewhere around 10 or 11. That much money and no shot at a championship while killing their future. Winner
They are absolutely a championship contender. They are absolutely Top 10 in the NBA and you have to be high as hell to tell me they aren't better than the Clippers who have done NOTHING but add JJ Reddick, Jared Dudley and Doc Rivers. The Knicks were supposed to go to the ECF and they were BARELY better than the Nets with their issues.

The reasons why the Nets did not go far and struggled a year ago:

-Poor coaching
-3 on 5 offensively. Wallace and Evans were terrible and averaged 10 points on the floor with the starting five.
-Evans/Humphries were bad defensively on pick and rolls.
-Deron injured the majority of the season

They now add:

-Lawerence Frank...a former defensive coach guru for Doc Rivers after Thibs left
-Jason Kidd who will give them leadership and experience for their guards.
-Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce give their starting lineup ZERO weaknesses. You can't double off of anyone, you leave anyone open and they will make a jumpshot. They are more well rounded on paper than last year's Lakers.

-Garnett is still an elite pick and roll defender and post up defender. Lopez is a good weak side shot blocker....That equals interior defense.

-Williams is healthy that equals passing lane defense and mobility to get guards into Garnett's pick and roll defense.

-Pierce and Johnson can spot up and shoot, post up, defend their position...Their basically clones of two different positions.

- Wallace shot nearly 30% from the field, Evans shot 20% outside the paint. You are replacing that with 17ppg, 5 rebounds, 5 assists per game with Pierce and 17ppg & 9rebounds per game with Garnett.

-Their bench? Livingston, Terry, Blatche, Evans, Plumlee is pretty darn good depth and size.

The Nets finished 10th in overall NBA records last season. So, how the hell aren't they 10th with massive upgrades across the board? Either, you are really terribly bias or you are simply clueless on the game of basketball.

SportsFanatic10
07-08-2013, 07:23 PM
Your wrong as usual. Your premise is that the Nets wont be able to stop LeBron. Welcome to 2013. Nobody can stop LeBron but thanks for stating the obvious. We wont have to slow down Wade his knees are doing a good enough job of that by themselves. HEAT have nobody to stop Lopez, KG, Deron, Blatche and our bench is much better than theirs.

lol so wade's knees cancel him out he's a non factor. but the heat can't stop kg and his knees. and blatche really? i guess you guys won't be able to stop birdman then either if he's back (likely).

Punk
07-08-2013, 10:55 PM
lol so wade's knees cancel him out he's a non factor. but the heat can't stop kg and his knees. and blatche really? i guess you guys won't be able to stop birdman then either if he's back (likely).

-Wade's knees makes him inconsistent and could make him a liability defensively when matched up with Joe Johnson. The difference between the Pacers and Nets are, they both have a large frontcourt AND a large backcourt. The Heat won that series because the Pacers backcourt sucked. They packed the paint on Hibbert, West and forced Stephenson and Hill to chuck up shots they couldn't make. Paul George is literally the only player on that team who could put the ball on the floor and also shoot it.

-If Wade could hardly keep up with Danny Green and Tony Parker, you really think he could guard Joe Johnson and Deron Willliams who will make him work thorough out a series? Wade will still be productive but will it be at 100%? I doubt it.

-KG dominated the Heat in their last playoff meeting. The Heat couldn't stop Duncan, you really think they could guard a frontline of KG, Lopez, Blatche, Evans on the glass and in the paint?

-Birdman is nothing special. He's an energy and hustle player like Reggie Evans who gets all of his baskets assisted on. Anybody can stop him if they are rotating properly on defense and boxing out.

Hawkeye15
07-08-2013, 11:24 PM
wait, is anyone here making a case for Joe Johnson mattering in the playoffs? He goes on vacation when the playoffs start, despite his physical body being there...

hugepatsfan
07-09-2013, 01:02 AM
Heat would rip apart the Nets lack of foot speed and pick and roll defense. It wouldn't be much different than it was last year. KG can't make up for 4 guys who don't want to defend, and the Nets are trying to mold past scoring stars into role players. Guys like Pierce/Johnson need to be dirty work guys who operate on limited touches and thats not what they have ever done. Lopez needs to be a positive player when hes not scoring 20 ppg. Nets will win 1 more game than they did last year.

You're wrong about Pierce. He does all the little things. Great rebounder at the 3 and also does a great job creating for others. He'll relieve D-Will of some playmaking duties and let him focus on scoring when he needs to. Pierce is as much a point forward as he is a scorer now or at least he was last year when Rondo went down. While he lacks the foot speed to ever be a true lock down defender he plays well within the team defensive scheme, preventing him from being a liability on that end.