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View Full Version : Do you feel Warriors have improved this offseason with these moves?



FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 06:23 PM
Yes, the defense Iggy adds will be worth more than the loss on offense.
No, they're still an offensive team and the loss of Jack and Landry will take away their offensive mismatches.

Looking at this team I imagine they still plan on using that small ball lineup that gave teams fits in the playoffs last year.

Curry
Thompson
Barnes
Iggy
Bogut

But is that better than what they were running with Jack-Thompson-Barnes instead of Thompson-Barnes-Iggy? I don't know, I think Iggy has been declining the past couple of years and that the impact Jack gave them will be hard to replace.

Iggy is a very good defender but he's not going to single handily turn the defense around, it's still very much an offensive team and I think going from Jack + Landry to Iggy is a huge loss on offense. Maybe if Bogut can stay healthy and return to his All-NBA form he and Iggy can lead a surprising defense?

What are you guys thinking at this point?

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:28 PM
Lost a bunch of depth, added Iggy. Overall it is a loss. I think they are worse off.

Goose17
07-06-2013, 06:30 PM
Far superior. We've still to sign FAs. Can't rip on our depth until offseason is over.

Not going to discuss it further. Want my opinion? Check the thread I started in the dubs forum.

We'll prove the doubters wrong... again. I wonder what you were all saying about us this time last season? Smh...

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 06:31 PM
I don't see the Warriors playing small ball very often. In the playoffs, match-ups where the reason we played small ball. Our starting five will probably be Curry-Thompson-Iguodala-Lee-Bogut, with Barnes as our 6th man. I think we got allot better. I think Iguodala's defense will bring another element to our team, and I think he'll help Thompson and Barnes become even better defenders themselves. He's not someone who's going to come in a mess up chemistry, and he's not coming in and jacking up 20 shots a game. In my opinion were going to have two elite wing defenders in Iguodala & Thompson, another very good wing defender in Barnes, then we have Bogut protecting the rim. If we could get an athletic power forward/center to come in off the bench, and a good defensive backup point guard.

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 06:33 PM
Lost a bunch of depth, added Iggy. Overall it is a loss. I think they are worse off.

You also think the loss of Biedrins and Jefferson hurts our depth. You also think Curry can only shoot three's. If I were you I would just log out, today aint ur day

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:36 PM
You also think the loss of Biedrins and Jefferson hurts our depth. You also think Curry can only shoot three's. If I were you I would just log out, today aint ur day

Coming from a guy who thinks monta is a beast. lol monta was a joke and so is Curry. He is a great shooter, but superstar....come on.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:36 PM
As a Warrior fan. I think we may be the same, maybe a game or two worse.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:37 PM
Coming from a guy who thinks monta is a beast. lol monta was a joke and so is Curry. He is a great shooter, but superstar....come on.

Monta sucks. But Curry is a transcendent talent, man. There is no one in the league that can do what he does.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:39 PM
Monta sucks. But Curry is a transcendent talent, man. There is no one in the league that can do what he does.

There is no one who can shoot a 3?

Rivera
07-06-2013, 06:39 PM
They did get better but the real question is how much better they were a second round team last year are they going to release a past that next season they still have to play the Spurs Westbrook is coming back from injury Houston just added harden Memphis is still formidk. able as well as the Clippers. Im not sure they can get passed the 2nd round

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:42 PM
There is no one who can shoot a 3?

That's a pretty hilarious way to put that.

No one can shoot at the rate Curry shoots at and the efficiency he does.

40.1 percent off the dribble. 50 percent on spot up shots. 56 percent in the corners.

No player in the league can touch him in regards to three point shooting.

He has a 590 TS percentage right now, but that's going to get higher as he develops more. It's going to push all the way up to 600.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:43 PM
They did get better but the real question is how much better they were a second round team last year are they going to release a past that next season they still have to play the Spurs Westbrook is coming back from injury Houston just added harden Memphis is still formidk. able as well as the Clippers. Im not sure they can get passed the 2nd round

I don't see them getting out of the second round. They will be a 5-8 seed and have to play a well rounded team.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:44 PM
We might not have to play a well rounded team. Grizzlies aren't well rounded, Nuggets aren't well rounded. But I am also in the boat of probably not getting past the first round and defnitely not getting past the second round.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:44 PM
That's a pretty hilarious way to put that.

No one can shoot at the rate Curry shoots at and the efficiency he does.

40.1 percent off the dribble. 50 percent on spot up shots. 56 percent in the corners.

No player in the league can touch him in regards to three point shooting.

He has a 590 TS percentage right now, but that's going to get higher as he develops more. It's going to push all the way up to 600.

yeah advanced stats don't mean anything to me. They never have. I don't think he is a superstar, I think he is above average at best. I think he is overhyped because of a couple big games.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:46 PM
We might not have to play a well rounded team. Grizzlies aren't well rounded, Nuggets aren't well rounded. But I am also in the boat of probably not getting past the first round and defnitely not getting past the second round.

Spurs Houston and OKC will be well rounded. If you are the 5 seed you might slide through the first only to get handled again in the second.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:47 PM
yeah advanced stats don't mean anything to me. They never have. I don't think he is a superstar, I think he is above average at best. I think he is overhyped because of a couple big games.


That's the dumbest **** I have ever heard. Those are advanced to you? The concept of him shooting 56 percent in the corner is just blowing your god damned mind? Holy ****ing ****, dude.

When you say you don't like "advanced" stats you are saying you reject stats as a methodology, you know the thing we used to build our society up for the last 2000 years.

Advanced stats aren't hypothetical, it's what actually happened, dude.

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Yeah, Curry is obviously way more than just a three point shooter lol. At times last year he looked like he was back at Davidson, only at the NBA level. He's an incredible player.

I forgot to add that while I don't think they got better overall that I don't think that would necessarily be the fault of the Warriors FO. You could say that grabbing Iggy was a preemptive move to the likeliness that they would lose Jack and Landry. There's no way you can guarantee that they still wouldn't leave. Jack got 4/$25M, Landry 4/$26M. Maybe they could have kept one, but is one of them alone better than Iggy?

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 06:48 PM
That's the dumbest **** I have ever heard. Those are advanced to you? The concept of him shooting 56 percent in the corner is just blowing your god damned mind? Holy ****ing ****, dude.

:clap::laugh:

YoungOne
07-06-2013, 06:48 PM
lee is coming back from injury aswell, I think they will improve more than a bit.

spreadeagle
07-06-2013, 06:49 PM
actually no, Iggy to me is not worth the huge contracts he gets, and wont having him really stagger Barnes development at the SF

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:50 PM
actually no, Iggy to me is not worth the huge contracts he gets, and wont having him really stagger Barnes development at the SF

Barns will be getting heavy minutes still.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:50 PM
That's the dumbest **** I have ever heard. Those are advanced to you? The concept of him shooting 56 percent in the corner is just blowing your god damned mind? Holy ****ing ****, dude.

When you say you don't like "advanced" stats you are saying you reject stats as a methodology, you know the thing we used to build our society up for the last 2000 years.

Advanced stats aren't hypothetical, it's what actually happened, dude.

Maybe I should have just said stats in general don't mean **** to me. I don't care what he shoots in the corner, because a good team will prevent him from that shot. Much like SAS did in games 3-6 this year. Curry was lost because he couldn't get the looks he wanted. Defense and a gameplan mean more than meaningless stats. And Jackson can be outcoached by a lot of current coaches.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:51 PM
Maybe I should have just said stats in general don't mean **** to me. I don't care what he shoots in the corner, because a good team will prevent him from that shot. Much like SAS did in games 3-6 this year. Curry was lost because he couldn't get the looks he wanted. Defense and a gameplan mean more than meaningless stats. And Jackson can be outcoached by a lot of current coaches.


'Curry isn't a transcendent talent because the second best three point shooting defensive team held him to 38 percent. What a scrub.'

Christ sake, man. Just stop.

This is why the NBA forum is the worst forum. No one uses statistics to measure players. They use their ****** and biased eyes.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:56 PM
'Curry isn't a transcendent talent because the second best three point shooting defensive team held him to 38 percent. What a scrub.'

Christ sake, man. Just stop.

This is why the NBA forum is the worst forum. No one uses statistics to measure players. They use their ****** and biased eyes.

This is why I don't like Warriors fans. They hype curry just like they did Monta, how did that work out. You guys used to throw out a lot of stats for him. Always forgot to mention he was a chucker.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 06:58 PM
This is why I don't like Warriors fans. They hype curry just like they did Monta, how did that work out. You guys used to throw out a lot of stats for him. Always forgot to mention he was a chucker.

Ellis' metrics sucked except for his second year.

Curry's TS percentage is 590. Monta's is 490.

If you are comparing them you have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone knows how amazing Curry is

akesh99
07-06-2013, 07:00 PM
I definitely like the Iggy signing but it was at a pretty big cost if you consider the depth they lost by making that deal. Jack was pretty amazing for them last year, I'm torn on whether they can find the same success without him. IMO they should have brought back him and Landry. That team had great depth and great chemistry. Let them continue to build on what they did last year. Considering they were already going to be getting Rush back would have been a huge plus on top of the squad they had last year.That being said, they're still a solid team with great potential.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:00 PM
Ellis' metrics sucked except for his second year.

Curry's TS percentage is 590. Monta's is 490.

If you are comparing them you have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone knows how amazing Curry is

Because of one season? His prior three were average. So yeah let me go ahead and base my analysis of him off of 1 outlyer season of data.

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 07:09 PM
I definitely like the Iggy signing but it was at a pretty big cost if you consider the depth they lost by making that deal. Jack was pretty amazing for them last year, I'm torn on whether they can find the same success without him. IMO they should have brought back him and Landry. That team had great depth and great chemistry. Let them continue to build on what they did last year. Considering they were already going to be getting Rush back would have been a huge plus on top of the squad they had last year.That being said, they're still a solid team with great potential.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. This may be a situation where a team takes one step back one year to take two steps forward next. Next offseason they're going to have a lot of cap space to work with again, and it could be an enormous amount if they're able to move David Lee's contract without taking much back as his salary spikes to $15M next season.

This is a young team on the rise, that's for sure.

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 07:09 PM
Because of one season? His prior three were average. So yeah let me go ahead and base my analysis of him off of 1 outlyer season of data.

Is it really that odd to you for a player to have their breakout season in their 4th season?

He averaged 26 PPG and 7.4 APG on an incredible .471/.461/.894 shooting line in the second half. You don't play at a level like that over 30 games by accident. If you think that's a "chucker" then I'd hate to see your opinion on players like Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook, who wish they could score that much with that kind of efficiency.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:11 PM
Is it really that odd to you for a player to have their breakout season in their 4th season?

It is really odd that 1 season can mean someone is a superstar. Seems premature.

IversonIsKrazy
07-06-2013, 07:13 PM
I dont like it tbh. I feel as if Iggy will just hinder Barnes development. No joke, Barnes improvement showed in the playoffs against Spurs, same way Leonards improvement showed in the Finals against Heat. I feel that Barnes *COULD* be the better player by the end of next season. Then to top it off they lost Jack, who would take over when Steph would go cold from taking ridiculous shots.
Imo: There small line-up of: Jack/Curry/Klay/Barnes/Lee was and will be better than Curry/Klay/Barnes/Iggy/Lee. AND They lost Landry. I feel overall, Warriors got worse. I didn't like the Iggy signing unless they were planning on trading Barnes away for Dwight.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 07:23 PM
Because of one season? His prior three were average. So yeah let me go ahead and base my analysis of him off of 1 outlyer season of data.

What?

Year one: 17.5 points, TS percentage of 568
Year two: 18.6 points, TS percentage of 595
Year three: 14.7 points TS percentage of 605
Year four: 22.9 points TS percentage of 589

You are out of your mind if you think this year was an outlier.

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 07:27 PM
What?

Year one: 17.5 points, TS percentage of 568
Year two: 18.6 points, TS percentage of 595
Year three: 14.7 points TS percentage of 605
Year four: 22.9 points TS percentage of 589

You are out of your mind if you think this year was an outlier.

Yup, or that Curry averaging 26 PPG and 7.4 APG on an incredible .471/.461/.894 shooting line in the second half was an accident. You don't play at a level that high for that long if you aren't legit.

If he thinks that's a "chucker" then I'd hate to see his opinion on players like Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook, who wish they could score that much with that kind of efficiency.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:28 PM
Yup, or that Curry averaging 26 PPG and 7.4 APG on an incredible .471/.461/.894 shooting line in the second half was an accident. You don't play at a level that high for that long if you aren't legit.
If he thinks that's a "chucker" then I'd hate to see his opinion on players like Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook, who wish they could score that much with that kind of efficiency.

Really? Tell that to Ben Gordon. curry is pretty much Gordon 2.0

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:30 PM
Yup, or that Curry averaging 26 PPG and 7.4 APG on an incredible .471/.461/.894 shooting line in the second half was an accident. You don't play at a level that high for that long if you aren't legit.

If he thinks that's a "chucker" then I'd hate to see his opinion on players like Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook, who wish they could score that much with that kind of efficiency.

Both Rose and Westbrook are chuckers too. I don't really think highly of either. Rose is pretty much Iverson and Westbrook could be a great player if he settled down and realized that Durant guy was on his team, someday he will learn that.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 07:31 PM
Really? Tell that to Ben Gordon. curry is pretty much Gordon 2.0

Curry's been playing at his level for four years with the natural improvement.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:32 PM
Curry's been playing at his level for four years with the natural improvement.

So did Ben Gordon. Go look at his first 5 years.

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 07:33 PM
Really? Tell that to Ben Gordon. curry is pretty much Gordon 2.0

When has Ben Gordon ever played at that level for 30+ games, including the postseason? You'd be hard pressed to find him playing even close to that level for one month.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:35 PM
When has Ben Gordon ever played at that level for 30+ games, including the postseason? You'd be hard pressed to find him playing even close to that level for more than one month.

Go look at the end of his rookie season. Ben Curry

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 07:38 PM
Go look at the end of his rookie season. Ben Curry

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01/splits/2005/

:eyebrow:

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:41 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01/splits/2005/

:eyebrow:

Go look halfway through 05-06 then or 06-07, pretty much what Curry did. And Gordon did it as a sixth man. Ben Gordon > Steph Curry

FOXHOUND
07-06-2013, 07:42 PM
Go look halfway through 05-06 then or 06-07, pretty much what Curry did. And Gordon did it as a sixth man. Ben Gordon > Steph Curry

:eyebrow:

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:43 PM
:eyebrow:

The stats that you love so much prove it is a valid statement. Aren't stats stupid.....thought so.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 07:56 PM
The stats that you love so much prove it is a valid statement. Aren't stats stupid.....thought so.

No, they don't. For christ sake.

STAT1
07-06-2013, 07:56 PM
From what I watched Jack did as much bad as he did good.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:59 PM
No, they don't. For christ sake.

Yes they do.

likemystylez
07-06-2013, 08:12 PM
The warriors would have improved even if they didnt make any moves this offseason. Players who were key for them during the playoffs are going to be improving a lot over the next 2 or 3 seasons. Klay Thompson is going to get better, Harrison barnes at the age of 20 is going to get a lot better, Draymond Green is going to get better, Festus ezeli is going to get better. Andrew Bogut is in a contract year- probably the last big contract of his career. I would expect him to play atleast decent- and not milk the minor injuries as much. If bogut regularly gets around 8 and 10 and plays good defense- the warriors are a lot better through out the season.

Its hard to imagine the warriors finding a way to get worse actually. I think their front gets a couple more expierienced players to solidify their bench.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 08:14 PM
The warriors would have improved even if they didnt make any moves this offseason. Players who were key for them during the playoffs are going to be improving a lot over the next 2 or 3 seasons. Klay Thompson is going to get better, Harrison barnes at the age of 20 is going to get a lot better, Draymond Green is going to get better, Festus ezeli is going to get better. Andrew Bogut is in a contract year- probably the last big contract of his career. I would expect him to play atleast decent- and not milk the minor injuries as much. If bogut regularly gets around 8 and 10 and plays good defense- the warriors are a lot better through out the season.

Its hard to imagine the warriors finding a way to get worse actually. I think their front gets a couple more expierienced players to solidify their bench.

with what money?

tredigs
07-06-2013, 08:20 PM
with what money?

They're technically under the cap after dumping Biedrins + Jefferson + Rush, have trade exceptions that they got from Utah, and may get more exceptions through the Denver deal.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 08:21 PM
They're technically under the cap after dumping Biedrins + Jefferson + Rush, have trade exceptions that they got from Utah, and may get more exceptions through the Denver deal.

The ownership still has to pay the players and eat the luxury tax. They really don't have a history supporting they will do that.

Sinestro
07-06-2013, 08:23 PM
I think they are much better. I think the bench will show up and the growth of Barnes and Thompson will put them over the top. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lee traded or Thompson promoted to the starting lineup.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 08:23 PM
The ownership still has to pay the players and eat the luxury tax. They really don't have a history supporting they will do that.

You realize that all these moves are under the new ownership that just came in, right?

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 08:24 PM
You realize that all these moves are under the new ownership that just came in, right?

So they don't have a history.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 08:26 PM
Tax level is around 70 million, and I think they're only around 55 right now.


So they don't have a history.

Everything we've seen and heard from them since they came in points to spending and winning. Their moves have all been gutsy and imo fantastic as well. First order of business was the Monta for Bogut deal, which was ideal.

Jarvo
07-06-2013, 08:37 PM
They're better.

Lake_Show2416
07-06-2013, 08:39 PM
the Warriors pretty much gain Iggy & lose Landry & Jack, they got better, the Warriors have Lee coming back so the Landry lose isn't too big, the bigger lose is Jack, he gives a good spark off the bench but he can b inconsistent, a chucker & eats up a lot of clock that takes the ball out of Curry's hands, Iggy gives the Warriors an elite perimeter defender that does a lot of dirty work (glue guy) & has a good spot up 3 point shot that will fit perfectly, Iggy also moves either Barnes or Klay to the bench for depth to replace the spark, plus the Warriors will probably sign 1 or 2 more solid bench players

lakerboy
07-06-2013, 08:45 PM
AI is a nice addition, but you already have Barnes on that spot.

I think all in all, just the young players maturing means they are better off.

But in terms of talent, I think Jack meant more than AI. Jack bailed GSW so many many times last year. They are going to miss them. Overall, I think a little worse off bec of his loss.

COOLbeans
07-06-2013, 09:22 PM
AI is a nice addition, but you already have Barnes on that spot.

I think all in all, just the young players maturing means they are better off.

But in terms of talent, I think Jack meant more than AI. Jack bailed GSW so many many times last year. They are going to miss them. Overall, I think a little worse off bec of his loss.

Jack is not better, nor is he a more valuable player than Iggy with the Warriors. We like Jack,

but he played outside of the offense sometimes and cost us a few possessions during crucial stretches at the end of games. We lost in those cases..(but he also hit some big shots).

Landry disappeared for about 25-30 games last year. Iggy won't do any of that and can also be relied on in the 4th quarter. I love the moves so far.

COOLbeans
07-06-2013, 09:25 PM
Losing Biedrins and Jefferson was a net positive for the Warriors. Rush will be missed but he's coming off his 2nd ACL injury in what 5 years? We also gained multiple TPEs and a very versatile wing defender who is extremely athletic (something we lacked on the perimeter) and can also facilitate the offense at a high level.

NoahH
07-06-2013, 09:29 PM
Coming from a guy who thinks monta is a beast. lol monta was a joke and so is Curry. He is a great shooter, but superstar....come on.

Curry is a star and will soon be a superstar don't kid yourself man.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 09:34 PM
Curry is a star and will soon be a superstar don't kid yourself man.

"Monta Ellis is a Superstar"

-Warriors fans 3 years ago

asandhu23
07-06-2013, 09:37 PM
To be fair though... We W's fans do overhype players. It's a result of decades of losing and wanting the savior of the franchise.

Munkeysuit
07-06-2013, 09:38 PM
Barnes coming off the bench for sure, Lee is the starting PF

COOLbeans
07-06-2013, 09:38 PM
"Monta Ellis is a Superstar"

-Warriors fans 3 years ago

Maybe one or two fans were saying stupid **** like that (i can tell you who it was). But that was never, ever a popular opinion in the Bay Area nor in the warriors forum on psd nor on any forum for that matter.

COOLbeans
07-06-2013, 09:39 PM
To be fair though... We W's fans do overhype players. It's a result of decades of losing and wanting the savior of the franchise.

You gotta admit asandhu, not even the biggest Monta lovers said he was a superstar other than maybe ellisgw and maybe one or two other posters.

COOLbeans
07-06-2013, 09:40 PM
Curry is a star and will soon be a superstar don't kid yourself man.

He's trolling hard

asandhu23
07-06-2013, 09:44 PM
"Monta Ellis is a Superstar"

-Warriors fans 3 years ago


Not one of us said Monta was a superstar. All star... sure but that tide turned against Monta because of horrible teams he had to work with and his honest opinion about Curry which was shared by the experts at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

asandhu23
07-06-2013, 09:45 PM
You gotta admit asandhu, not even the biggest Monta lovers said he was a superstar other than maybe ellisgw and maybe one or two other posters.


not even I said he was a superstar and i, as you and Guppy know, have defended Ellis.

Ironman5219
07-06-2013, 09:51 PM
They're starters are better with Iggi- and I hate the warriors but that is a scary starting line up... the real head scratcher is Bogut, they actually played better when he wasn't on the floor. They had a solid bench but the lose of Jack, Rush and Jefferson they're suffer when their second unit is on the floor. The biggest question is their health, if they stay healthy they will be a play off team, if they lose some of their starters it could be a nightmare season.

asandhu23
07-06-2013, 09:56 PM
They're starters are better with Iggi- and I hate the warriors but that is a scary starting line up... the real head scratcher is Bogut, they actually played better when he wasn't on the floor. They had a solid bench but the lose of Jack, Rush and Jefferson they're suffer when their second unit is on the floor. The biggest question is their health, if they stay healthy they will be a play off team, if they lose some of their starters it could be a nightmare season.


I can't believe Jazz Fans and Warriors Fans dispute ( I wasn't involved ) from last year hasn't been solved yet.

Guppyfighter
07-06-2013, 10:01 PM
They're starters are better with Iggi- and I hate the warriors but that is a scary starting line up... the real head scratcher is Bogut, they actually played better when he wasn't on the floor. They had a solid bench but the lose of Jack, Rush and Jefferson they're suffer when their second unit is on the floor. The biggest question is their health, if they stay healthy they will be a play off team, if they lose some of their starters it could be a nightmare season.

Nah, that's just sample size. We are absolutely better with Bogut on the floor. The playoffs was the first time he was even 90 percent healthy and he was simply amazing.

waveycrockett
07-06-2013, 10:37 PM
I hope this isn't a serious question. If they dont win 50+ games next season something has gone horribly wrong.

SMH!
07-06-2013, 11:08 PM
That's the dumbest **** I have ever heard. Those are advanced to you? The concept of him shooting 56 percent in the corner is just blowing your god damned mind? Holy ****ing ****, dude.

When you say you don't like "advanced" stats you are saying you reject stats as a methodology, you know the thing we used to build our society up for the last 2000 years.

Advanced stats aren't hypothetical, it's what actually happened, dude.

LMAO you are owning the poor guy

3RDASYSTEM
07-06-2013, 11:47 PM
Yes, the defense Iggy adds will be worth more than the loss on offense.
No, they're still an offensive team and the loss of Jack and Landry will take away their offensive mismatches.

Looking at this team I imagine they still plan on using that small ball lineup that gave teams fits in the playoffs last year.

Curry
Thompson
Barnes
Iggy
Bogut

But is that better than what they were running with Jack-Thompson-Barnes instead of Thompson-Barnes-Iggy? I don't know, I think Iggy has been declining the past couple of years and that the impact Jack gave them will be hard to replace.

Iggy is a very good defender but he's not going to single handily turn the defense around, it's still very much an offensive team and I think going from Jack + Landry to Iggy is a huge loss on offense. Maybe if Bogut can stay healthy and return to his All-NBA form he and Iggy can lead a surprising defense?

What are you guys thinking at this point?

They lost big time with those 2 players you mentioned, IGGY is a 12ppg player and made the allstar game with that avg. a yr or 2 ago, JACK alone can make up for his ppg production, he's a better defender than JACK but the combo is better than IGGY alone, loss for DUBS

lol, please
07-07-2013, 12:47 AM
We absolutely improved. We may have lost Jack and Landry but we gained Iggy, and dumped Beans and Jefferson, which was huge. Also, Lee and Bogut will be healthy. I can't wait for this season to start.


And Guppy keep owning chitownbears22. :laugh2: Dude thinks Curry is garbage. Laughable stuff really.

Guppyfighter
07-07-2013, 01:02 AM
Yeah, I can't wait to watch our team. I think any production we lose from Jack and Landry will be replaced by Bogut playing 70+ games.

lol, please
07-07-2013, 01:04 AM
Assuming we lose them both:

Curry/Jenkins/Nedovic
Klay/Barnes/Bazemore
Iggy/Barnes
Lee/Green/Tyler
Bogut/O'neal/Ezeli

ESaady
07-07-2013, 01:06 AM
The **** you read in the main forum...

ESaady
07-07-2013, 01:07 AM
Yeah, I can't wait to watch our team. I think any production we lose from Jack and Landry will be replaced by Bogut playing 70+ games.

But like um losing Biedrins and Jefferson is brutal, no more depth zomg

Guppyfighter
07-07-2013, 01:08 AM
But like um losing Biedrins and Jefferson is brutal, no more depth zomg

I laughed out loud when I saw that and chose not to respond. That was really reaching.

IndyRealist
07-07-2013, 01:15 AM
yeah advanced stats don't mean anything to me. They never have. I don't think he is a superstar, I think he is above average at best. I think he is overhyped because of a couple big games.

Shooting percentages aren't advanced stats, they're counting.

IndyRealist
07-07-2013, 01:20 AM
Yeah, I can't wait to watch our team. I think any production we lose from Jack and Landry will be replaced by Bogut playing 70+ games.

That's a big if.

I like their frontcourt depth, with Barnes, Green, and Ezeli. And Lee can play some center, he did in New York. But their bench backcourt is pretty sketchy behind Thompson and Curry. Igoudala might shift to SG at times when Barnes is in and Thompson out, but they still need a backup PG/SG at the very least.

ChuckyGSW291
07-07-2013, 01:42 AM
I think one of the bigger gains of bringing in iggy is that klay doesnt have to chase the other teams best wing around the whole game anymore. He can spend more concentration getting his shot going , which when he does opens things up for curry dramatically cause they cant just double team him and force the ball out of his hands.o

THE_FLASH_21
07-07-2013, 01:45 AM
Far superior. We've still to sign FAs. Can't rip on our depth until offseason is over.

Not going to discuss it further. Want my opinion? Check the thread I started in the dubs forum.

We'll prove the doubters wrong... again. I wonder what you were all saying about us this time last season? Smh...

Far superior? Declining star? Taking minutes away from younger players? Smh lol

Guppyfighter
07-07-2013, 01:52 AM
Barnes will still be getting 30+ minutes a game. Our coach doesn't keep promising players on the bench, like someone in Utah.

Goose17
07-07-2013, 05:43 AM
I know I said I wouldn't discuss it further but I'm going to bite...



Far superior? Declining star? Taking minutes away from younger players? Smh lol

Far superior? Yes. Our biggest weaknesses last year were perimeter defense and a distinct lack of athleticism. Iggy fixes both. And we now have the best wing rotation in the West, maybe even the league.

Declining star? His offense might be declining but we don't need another shooter. He's an athletic slasher that can cut and penetrate the defense. Exactly what we need. He might only get 14ppg but he does it relatively efficiently (TS% above 0.52). And his defense certainly isn't declining. The only wing defender in the league better than him last year was Lebron. His defensive impact was comparable to Marc Gasol, Larry Sanders and Joakim Noah. Some of the best defensive big men in the league, no small feat for a wing player. Oh and without Iggy the Nuggets had the 23rd worst defense in the league last season, but WITH Iggy they were tied for the 7th best.

Taking minutes from younger players? First of all we don't know the lineup yet, secondly being 6th man still gets you minutes and might even develop a youngster quicker because he'll be the go-to guy for that second unit. Oh and it didn't really seem to do James Harden any harm.


On my cell. Sorry for any typos.

Like I said of you want my full opinion/break down go read the thread I made in the Dubs forum.

That's me. I'm done.

chipurmunki
07-07-2013, 07:43 AM
if it was almost any other franchise, i'd say probably. but as it is gs we're talking about, then hell no. they freed up space to do what... overpay for iggy? they put all their marbles in glass-ankles curry and allergic-to-a-full-season bogut AFTER paying up the butt for BIEDRINS and over-the-hill jefferson. seriously. no wonder they have made the playoffs 2 years out of the past 20...

JasonJohnHorn
07-07-2013, 09:31 AM
Having Iggy, Barnes and Thompson sharing minutes at SF and SG make up a nice rotation for the wing. Curry at the point is great, though they may need to bring in a nice back-up point guard. An injury to Curry could be a HUGE set back if that were to happen.

In the front court you got Lee and Bogut with Landry coming off the bench to back up Lee and I believe the Warriors still have Festus Ezil? Ezil showed some promise as a rebounder and shot blocker, he's just got to bring his personal fouls down and improve his FT shooting. There are some vet-min big out there to bring in as an insurance policy still.

So yeah... look for a legit PG to back-up Curry and let him slid to SG for a few minutes a game and get a couple of veteran bigs that can rebound and defend. If they can manage that, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to stand toe-to-toe with any team in the league if healthy.

bgdreton
07-07-2013, 11:09 AM
Chipurmunki thanks for Barnes btw

astonmartin10
07-07-2013, 11:17 AM
I have faith in GS. Barnes is only improving and Curry will take the jump to next level. I really like this team.

lincecum=future
07-07-2013, 11:20 AM
All depends on health but if this team is at full strength I like the squad better than last year. Still need a quality backup big man though.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 11:23 AM
I don't. Hinders the progression of Barnes and you lose Landry and Jack? Iggy is not good enough to warrant paying that type of dough in front of a budding star like Barnes.

It was like the Toronto Landry Fields signing (obviously he is 100x better than Fields) in that the move was made on a contingency plan that never went through and rendered the signing counterproductive.

kobe4thewinbang
07-07-2013, 11:28 AM
Losing Jack is tough, but having Andre Iguodala cushions the blow. I hope they have enough guys after losing Rush, Jefferson & Biedrins. I think Biedrins was useless, not sure about RJ, but poor Rush broke his leg or something on opening night. Hopefully he has a good season.

Was trading away those 3 guys to absorb Iggy's contract better? Or do they still have considerable cap space?
If they do, then hopefully they sign somebody else.

I hope they can make some noise again. Their series against the Spurs was a joy to watch.

rhino17
07-07-2013, 11:43 AM
I think they are about the same, except they lost draft picks. Andre Iguodala is a role player, nothing more. They paid him way too much, one of the most ridiculous contracts i've ever seen

albertajaysfan
07-07-2013, 11:48 AM
Bogut being healthy to begin the year will be what makes the biggest difference.

ManRam
07-07-2013, 11:54 AM
Jefferson and Biedrins aren't losses. Who cares about them?

Jack and Landry are. Rush was hurt all last year, but even he would have been some nice depth.

There's still time for them to make a small move. Jermaine O'Neal would be nice. Ezeli being out for a while hurts them too.

I think right now it's about a wash, and this is coming from a HUGE Iggy fan.

Curry
Thompson/Bazemore
Iggy/Barnes
Lee/Green
Bogut

They got some depth issues to figure out. Their two best bench players are gone with no real replacements (besides the potential of Barnes actually being a good player next regular season unlike his rookie year).

But they are still slightly under the cap and did just net a huge TPE so they could still fix those minor problems.

And until that's settled, I can't really vote.

Byronicle
07-07-2013, 11:54 AM
They lost Jack and Landry

But they got Igoudala

Igoudala is going to hinder Harrison Barnes. Igoudala is good defensively but his shooting is awful. They replaced Jack who was great off the ball, pretty clutch, better shooter and Landry who gets you those high FG%.

Who did Houston lose exactly? Royce White. They gained Dwight Howard and resulted in a huge bargaining chip in Asik who will reel them some good assets, depth.

Warriors are one ankle injury away from being a championship contenders to a playoff first round exit

FOXHOUND
07-07-2013, 12:27 PM
So right now the majority is liking the Iggy for Jack/Landry swap, and I've seen some solid reasoning in that direction. I've also seen some solid reasoning in the other direction, and I'm leaning towards that end right now. I really like what they're doing in GS and love most of the roster, I'm just not sure if Iggy over those two is a net gain for what they do. I could be wrong, and I also think this is a long term move as much as it's a short term move. The team is going to have at least $10M in cap space next year in what's supposed to be a good FA class, they're not done adding guys to improve the team and certainly not done getting better with that young core.

First, to get this out of the way, people mentioning Jefferson and Bierdrins? No, just no. Those guys aren't a factor in the slightest bit and the team was looking to dump them last season to create the kind of space to make a signing like the Iggy one. Those two + Rush coming off another ACL really aren't a factor, as obviously a Thompson/Barnes/Iggy wing rotation is a whole lot better than having Rush in there. Losing those picks does hurt, but they made an aggressive move and you gotta pay to dump contracts like that.

The thing is this is going to cause big changes to the teams identity and game plan. Yes, the team still has it's fair share of shooters, but having so many out there at once was their advantage. The spacing they created, the deep scoring options, the pace. Putting Iggy in there counters all of that except pace as he's very good in transition. It's going to lead to them being more of a traditional team, which isn't a bad thing but I'm not sure if it makes them better short term.

The health of Bogut is going to be exponentially more important this season than last if they're going to slow things down a bit and go more traditional half court, and relying on his health is always risky to say the least. The defensive weakness of some of their key players, notably Curry and Lee, will be exposed far more in a slow downed game.

They lost two very good offensive bench players for someone who is just a solid offensive player as a starter and only good as a bench player. Yes, they had plenty of offense to spare, but they also won't be throwing out 7 very good offensive players a night anymore, which was hell to deal with. The young guys are going to improve, but having a long range dud like Iggy out there also means more packing of the paint, more sagging by his man, less space inside.

But like I said earlier, this very well could have been a preemptive move. Is there any lock that they would have been able to keep both Jack and Landry, if even one of them? These guys haven't had huge contracts, and it's hard to say if both or either would have turned down the $25M and $26M they pulled in from the Cavs and Kings.

In conclusion I think this move is part of a long term plan. They're going to have money to spend next offseason, and depending on what they do we may be looking back at this move as a stroke of foresight genius. Then again, without this extra $12M or so, we may be looking at next offseason saying the Iggy signing kept them from signing a max guy in an offseason that should have way better players than Iggy.

We'll see, either way the Golden State FO has done a hell of a job in turning around this franchise and giving them a promising future.

bgdreton
07-07-2013, 03:12 PM
Foxhound I pretty much agree with everything u said except for:
1. The warriors are not going to slow down the pace. Nothing the Warriors will do next year will be slow.

2. There are only 5 players on the court at one time so having 7 doesn't matter. It depends on the given match ups at that given time. Everyone acts like Andre shots like a scrub. Yes he is not curry but he is no bum. He averaged 18 vs the warriors and shot 50 percent from 3 so he is capable.

3. With klay and andre guarding on the wings it will counter act the offense we supposedly lost in jack. Andre held 2 and 3 guards to 12 and 10 per respectively last year. That is ridiculous. Klay Thompson can tell u about it lol.

Lloyd Christmas
07-07-2013, 03:27 PM
As a warriors fan I'd say at this moment we are a little big worse than we were last year but this offseason isn't over. If we can sign a decent center and a decent back up pg or trade for them using trade exceptions then I'd say we definitely improved.

2-ONE-5
07-07-2013, 03:28 PM
they need to target Hickson now for the bench depth. if the can do that and add a solid backup PG they become better. Having a guy like Iggy defending the perimeter will be huge in the playoffs.

TorontoHuskies
07-07-2013, 04:00 PM
Yes, the defense Iggy adds will be worth more than the loss on offense.
No, they're still an offensive team and the loss of Jack and Landry will take away their offensive mismatches.

Looking at this team I imagine they still plan on using that small ball lineup that gave teams fits in the playoffs last year.

Curry
Thompson
Barnes
Iggy
Bogut

But is that better than what they were running with Jack-Thompson-Barnes instead of Thompson-Barnes-Iggy? I don't know, I think Iggy has been declining the past couple of years and that the impact Jack gave them will be hard to replace.

Iggy is a very good defender but he's not going to single handily turn the defense around, it's still very much an offensive team and I think going from Jack + Landry to Iggy is a huge loss on offense. Maybe if Bogut can stay healthy and return to his All-NBA form he and Iggy can lead a surprising defense?

What are you guys thinking at this point?

losing Jack is a gamebreaker, he ran that team most gms.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 04:06 PM
So right now the majority is liking the Iggy for Jack/Landry swap, and I've seen some solid reasoning in that direction. I've also seen some solid reasoning in the other direction, and I'm leaning towards that end right now. I really like what they're doing in GS and love most of the roster, I'm just not sure if Iggy over those two is a net gain for what they do. I could be wrong, and I also think this is a long term move as much as it's a short term move. The team is going to have at least $10M in cap space next year in what's supposed to be a good FA class, they're not done adding guys to improve the team and certainly not done getting better with that young core.

First, to get this out of the way, people mentioning Jefferson and Bierdrins? No, just no. Those guys aren't a factor in the slightest bit and the team was looking to dump them last season to create the kind of space to make a signing like the Iggy one. Those two + Rush coming off another ACL really aren't a factor, as obviously a Thompson/Barnes/Iggy wing rotation is a whole lot better than having Rush in there. Losing those picks does hurt, but they made an aggressive move and you gotta pay to dump contracts like that.

The thing is this is going to cause big changes to the teams identity and game plan. Yes, the team still has it's fair share of shooters, but having so many out there at once was their advantage. The spacing they created, the deep scoring options, the pace. Putting Iggy in there counters all of that except pace as he's very good in transition. It's going to lead to them being more of a traditional team, which isn't a bad thing but I'm not sure if it makes them better short term.

The health of Bogut is going to be exponentially more important this season than last if they're going to slow things down a bit and go more traditional half court, and relying on his health is always risky to say the least. The defensive weakness of some of their key players, notably Curry and Lee, will be exposed far more in a slow downed game.

They lost two very good offensive bench players for someone who is just a solid offensive player as a starter and only good as a bench player. Yes, they had plenty of offense to spare, but they also won't be throwing out 7 very good offensive players a night anymore, which was hell to deal with. The young guys are going to improve, but having a long range dud like Iggy out there also means more packing of the paint, more sagging by his man, less space inside.

But like I said earlier, this very well could have been a preemptive move. Is there any lock that they would have been able to keep both Jack and Landry, if even one of them? These guys haven't had huge contracts, and it's hard to say if both or either would have turned down the $25M and $26M they pulled in from the Cavs and Kings.

In conclusion I think this move is part of a long term plan. They're going to have money to spend next offseason, and depending on what they do we may be looking back at this move as a stroke of foresight genius. Then again, without this extra $12M or so, we may be looking at next offseason saying the Iggy signing kept them from signing a max guy in an offseason that should have way better players than Iggy.

We'll see, either way the Golden State FO has done a hell of a job in turning around this franchise and giving them a promising future.

I'd actually contend that the Warriors had a little too much shooting relative to players with slashing ability. And while Iggy had an off shooting year, he's not a "dud" from 3. He's a career 33% 3pt shooter who shot 39.4% from 3 in 2012. I think the new offense in Denver and the fact that they were a poor shooting team as a whole (bottom 5 in 3pt shooting) hindered his own shooting capabilities a bit. Jumping to the top 3pt shooting team in the league will aid him spacing wise and I wouldn't be surprised to see him shoot 38% from 3. That said, on the offensive end it will be his slashing + playmaking ability from the guard/forward position that add another dynamic element to the offense. Plus, he's not a ball stopper like Jarret Jack was. Despite Jack's personal metrics that were solid, I don't think he was good for an offense.

And Landry was a good bench piece, but we're talking about a guy who still only saw 20 a night in the playoffs without David Lee in front of him. He was a poor defender, so hopefully the free agent big they'll likely sign is an improvement on D. Lee rather than a downgrade. I saw a stat earlier that with Iguodala on the floor the Nuggets had the 6th ranked defense, and without him the 16th (those might be off slightly, I'm going off memory). Regardless, adding a slashing playmaker who has the defensive wing capabilities in the tier of Tony Allen/Lebron completely transforms the team in a positve light, imo. But yes, a lot of this potential success will be predicated on Bogut's health, because when they're both on the floor, that will be a combo of elite wing + post D, along with 3 other fantastic offensive options in any 3 of Curry/Lee/Thompson/Barnes. Still, we need to see what other moves are made to get a clearer picture.

As far as waiting for next off-season in hopes of landing a bigger free agent, I'm not seeing it. Outside of Lebron, I don't see an unrestricted free agent better than him. Granger? Old Kobe or Dirk? Deng? Not seeing it. For the picks, yeah like you said, you can't dump 25+ million in dead contracts without giving something up, but seeing as they're looking like a solid playoff team, they're going to be low ones that can likely be traded for or bought fairly easily anyway.


losing Jack is a gamebreaker, he ran that team most gms.

Ran them into the ground as often as not. Solid backup PG's are not that tough to come by on the cheap. Beverly for Houston oversees last year, Harris + Collison signing sub 2 mil deals, etc.

lincecum=future
07-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Landry is a much bigger loss than Jack IMO. Of course that can change with the twist of an ankle but Jack is SO over rated on this forum from what I have been reading. Pretty solid offensively but as Inconsistent as they get. Most warrior fans had a love/hate with jack as he could win you the game one night when his shot is on and lose you the game the next with him dribbling out the clock and chucking up a prayer or a costly turnover.

COOLbeans
07-07-2013, 04:28 PM
losing Jack is a gamebreaker, he ran that team most gms.


. Plus, he's not a ball stopper like Jarret Jack was. Despite Jack's personal metrics that were solid, I don't think he was good for an offense.

Ran them into the ground as often as not. Solid backup PG's are not that tough to come by on the cheap. Beverly for Houston oversees last year, Harris + Collison signing sub 2 mil deals, etc.


Just in case the above point about Jack goes unnoticed. People fail to realize that Jack cost us games last year,

and what we will really miss about him is his leadership on and off the court, rather than his overall play during games. Jack did NOT carry this team last season and Igoudala is also a natural leader like Jack.

COOLbeans
07-07-2013, 04:30 PM
Landry is a much bigger loss than Jack IMO. Of course that can change with the twist of an ankle but Jack is SO over rated on this forum from what I have been reading. Pretty solid offensively but as Inconsistent as they get. Most warrior fans had a love/hate with jack as he could win you the game one night when his shot is on and lose you the game the next with him dribbling out the clock and chucking up a prayer or a costly turnover.

He's overrated probably by the fans of teams who he played well against and those who only watched select games of the playoffs. Jack did play well forus but he can be replaced.

I agree Landry was a bigger loss for the dubs

b@llhog24
07-07-2013, 04:35 PM
Iggy is a great defender, not a "good" one. Although, we'll see how long that lasts.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 04:41 PM
It'll be nice not to have to worry about facing Iggy in the post-season next year, too. He torched us. 18pts 8rbs 5ast on 50/48/72 along with that D.

Lloyd Christmas
07-07-2013, 04:45 PM
I feel that Jack is the bigger loss for sure. Curry's ankle being a wildcard and all...

numba1CHANGsta
07-07-2013, 04:59 PM
idk why they signed Iggy if they already have Barnes, should have used their money on some veteran depth, GSW wont make it out the first round

TrueFan420
07-07-2013, 05:06 PM
yeah advanced stats don't mean anything to me. They never have. I don't think he is a superstar, I think he is above average at best. I think he is overhyped because of a couple big games.

Above average at best..... Hahahahahahaha your a joke man.

asandhu23
07-07-2013, 05:12 PM
idk why they signed Iggy if they already have Barnes, should have used their money on some veteran depth, GSW wont make it out the first round


I think Klay moves to 6th man. Barnes stays at SF. Iggy takes SG spot.


Lineup:
C: Bogut
PF: Lee
SF: Barnes
SG: Iggy
PG: Curry

6th: Klay

lakerboy
07-07-2013, 06:55 PM
I think Klay moves to 6th man. Barnes stays at SF. Iggy takes SG spot.


Lineup:
C: Bogut
PF: Lee
SF: Barnes
SG: Iggy
PG: Curry

6th: Klay

Iggy can't shoot man. He will ruin the offensive chemistry.
IMO, Klay should be SG, and Iggy as the 6th man.

Lo Porto
07-07-2013, 07:26 PM
The loss of Jack and Landry even out the addition of Iggy. A team that already has a good starting five and emerging SG and SF need a quality 2nd PG and solid post depth more than another talented wing. GS is built to compete in the playoffs but will struggle win a lot during the season due to depth.

Cali4rnia
07-07-2013, 07:41 PM
Iggy is a good pick up for GS. I like Klay too but he has to go.

pg Curry
Sg Iggy
SF Barnes (Need him when it comes to guarding players like durant, Melo, Lebron).
PF (Trade for Klay) lot of team would love him.
C Bogut
I hate to see a talent player come off the bench. OKC did that to Harden.

R. Johnson#3
07-07-2013, 07:49 PM
Coming from a guy who thinks monta is a beast. lol monta was a joke and so is Curry. He is a great shooter, but superstar....come on.

Steph Curry was vicious in the playoffs.

asandhu23
07-08-2013, 03:25 AM
Iggy can't shoot man. He will ruin the offensive chemistry.
IMO, Klay should be SG, and Iggy as the 6th man.


He plays Defense. He can pass. He's a big body who can drive to the hoop.