PDA

View Full Version : Which team will be better next season, Rockets or Warriors?



Pages : [1] 2

sunsfan88
07-06-2013, 04:56 PM
This is a bit premature since both GSW and HOU probably will make more moves in FA, but who do you think will be better next season of the two?

Warriors added Igoudala and will get Lee back to bolster their front court.

Houston added Howard and will trade Asik for what will probably be something valuable even if its not for a star player or anything.

As of right, notable players on GSW roster: Curry, Thompson, Igoudala, Barnes, Lee, Bogut


As of right, notable players on HOU roster: Lin, Harden, Parsons, Asik, Dwight

ManRam
07-06-2013, 04:57 PM
I think it's too early because both have some loose ends to clear up.

But I'm a firm believer in Dwight next year and that they'll turn Asik into something. Slight edge to them.

Curry's ankles always are a point worth noting too

sunsfan88
07-06-2013, 05:07 PM
I think it's too early because both have some loose ends to clear up.

But I'm a firm believer in Dwight next year and that they'll turn Asik into something. Slight edge to them.

Curry's ankles always are a point worth noting too
Yup as is Dwight's back.

Goose17
07-06-2013, 05:10 PM
Like previously said, too early to tell.

If we add some depth to our bench and keep our core 6 (Curry, Iggy, Klay, Barnes, Lee, Bogut) then I'm confident we'll be the better team.

Can't wait to see Howard/Harden pick and roll though!

Jint.
07-06-2013, 05:13 PM
Close, but Houston.. Dwight / Harden is a great duo

Ryan328
07-06-2013, 05:25 PM
Still like GSW a little more...ATM

LAKobeBryant
07-06-2013, 05:27 PM
more prediction threads

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 05:28 PM
I think the Warriors are better next season, and going into the future. Were going to have Barnes as our 6th man next season, nuff said.

Clippersfan86
07-06-2013, 05:29 PM
Until proven other wise Golden State. Let the Rockets play at least half a season before we crown them.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:33 PM
Houston by 15+ games

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:34 PM
I think the Warriors are better next season, and going into the future. Were going to have Barnes as our 6th man next season, nuff said.

Yeah that is a good reason. A guy who played poorly all season and then sort of showed up in the playoffs is going to change your whole team. Lol it was a decent playoff run by the Warriors, but they still lack defense.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 05:34 PM
Warriors aren't done with the off-season yet, and Houston may not be either. We'll see. But as of right now it's shaping up to be a very tight top 6 in the West.



Yeah that is a good reason. A guy who played poorly all season and then sort of showed up in the playoffs is going to change your whole team. Lol it was a decent playoff run by the Warriors, but they still lack defense.

As of now they have a good chance at being a top 10 D next season. They weren't bad last year, and now they're better.

Chronz
07-06-2013, 05:35 PM
Rockets, once they trade Asik

FOBolous
07-06-2013, 05:36 PM
Too early to tell. I'm hoping the rockets though =P

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:38 PM
Warriors aren't done with the off-season yet, and Houston may not be either. We'll see. But as of right now it's shaping up to be a very tight top 6 in the West.




As of now they have a good chance at being a top 10 D next season. They weren't bad last year, and now they're better.

David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

rockets-fan
07-06-2013, 05:40 PM
Right now I'd say GSW, Howard and Harden need to play at least one game before we start comparing them, but on paper they look awesome

tredigs
07-06-2013, 05:41 PM
David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

Bogut "soft". That's a first. When he's on the floor he's easily one of the top paint protectors in the game. Huge for them in the post-season. Their wing D is now very solid as well. Like I said, it's shaping up to be a top 10 D (~14th last year). And Lee's not soft, he's actually a pretty dirty/gritty player and a tough rebounder, but he doesn't play D.

We'll see how the rest of the off-season plays out though.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Right now I'd say GSW, Howard and Harden need to play at least one game before we start comparing them, but on paper they look awesome

It is a perfect fit. Dwight thrived in an offense with shooters. That is what he has now. He doesn't need the ball in his hands on offense and have 25 ppg. They need solid D and 15-20 per night from him. Parsons and Hardens will take care of the scoring.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:43 PM
Bogut "soft". That's a first. When he's on the floor he's easily one of the top paint protectors in the game. Huge for them in the post-season. Their wing D is now very solid as well. Like I said, it's shaping up to be a top 10 D (~14th last year). And Lee's not soft, he's actually a pretty dirty/gritty player and a tough rebounder, but he doesn't play D.

We'll see how the rest of the off-season plays out though.

Sorry soft as in never healthy. David Lee is a little better with injuries but he is actually a bad defender too.

nycericanguy
07-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Maybe i'm in the minority, but I'm not even sure the Warriors improved this year. They gave up a lot to sign Iggy.

Landry was big for them, and Jack was 6th man of the year type material. You can make the case that Jack was better than Iggy last year. They lose outside shooting with Rush also. That's not even considering the 3-4 picks they gave up for him.

Iggy has been in an offensive decline for 5-6 years now, he's a solid rebounder, passer and defender, but to me, Barnes might overtake him as early as next season. Now you'll have Iggy taking minutes from Barnes.

Rockets added the best big man in the game, and really didn't lose any key pieces from last year aside from maybe Delfino.

rockets-fan
07-06-2013, 05:47 PM
Maybe i'm in the minority, but I'm not even sure the Warriors improved this year. They gave up a lot to sign Iggy.

Landry was big for them, and Jack was 6th man of the year type material. You can make the case that Jack was better than Iggy last year. They lose outside shooting with Rush also. That's not even considering the 3-4 picks they gave up for him.

Iggy has been in an offensive decline for 5-6 years now, he's a solid rebounder, passer and defender, but to me, Barnes might overtake him as early as next season. Now you'll have Iggy taking minutes from Barnes.

Rockets added the best big man in the game, and really didn't lose any key pieces from last year aside from maybe Delfino.


I felt this way too, but I see Curry,Barnes and Thomson making a huge improvement which makes them better.

Also I think Delfino comes back at the vet min, I don't see any other teams offering him a contract, maybe the Heat or Thunder?

steveweve
07-06-2013, 05:47 PM
I think it's too early because both have some loose ends to clear up.

But I'm a firm believer in Dwight next year and that they'll turn Asik into something. Slight edge to them.

Curry's ankles always are a point worth noting too

Yes his ankles have been a problem, but he only missed FOUR games last season.

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 05:49 PM
Yeah that is a good reason. A guy who played poorly all season and then sort of showed up in the playoffs is going to change your whole team. Lol it was a decent playoff run by the Warriors, but they still lack defense.

How did Barnes play bad all season? He was the fourth option on offense, played good defense, rebounded the ball well, and showed glimpses of being able to take over games. That was in the regular season. In the post-season he got more touches, and look what he did. Do you even watch ****ing basketball? Barnes is considered one of the young up and coming stars in the game.


How exactly do we lack defense? Cause from what I can remember Iguodala is an elite defender, Thompson is a very good defender, Barnes a solid defender, Bogut is a very good defender and is an elite shot blocker. Our wing defense is going to be great next season, and that's where most teams rely on their scoring. Not to mention Curry took strides with his defensive play last season. All that, and you don't think Iguodala's going to make Thompson and Barnes better defenders? Going up against him in practice everyday isn't good for Barnes and Thompson?

I feel like I just wasted my time cause this cat clearly don't know basketball

steveweve
07-06-2013, 05:49 PM
Btw Curry was a top 5 PG last year playing on one ankle, that says something.

akesh99
07-06-2013, 05:49 PM
Maybe i'm in the minority, but I'm not even sure the Warriors improved this year. They gave up a lot to sign Iggy.

Landry was big for them, and Jack was 6th man of the year type material. You can make the case that Jack was better than Iggy last year. They lose outside shooting with Rush also. That's not even considering the 3-4 picks they gave up for him.

Iggy has been in an offensive decline for 5-6 years now, he's a solid rebounder, passer and defender, but to me, Barnes might overtake him as early as next season. Now you'll have Iggy taking minutes from Barnes.

Rockets added the best big man in the game, and really didn't lose any key pieces from last year aside from maybe Delfino.

Agree with you about the Dubs. People seem to forget that by adding Iggy they lost out on Jack, Landry, Rush, Jefferson and Biedrins. I don't know how they're going to replace that bench depth.

About the Rox, I'm still not sold on them as contenders. It'll be interesting to see what they can net for Asik and if Lin and/or Beverly can improve. If they can turn Asik into a PF and some bench depth that would be ideal.

Either way both teams have the potential to make some noise, while I don't think either of them are serious contenders just yet.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 05:50 PM
Sorry soft as in never healthy. David Lee is a little better with injuries but he is actually a bad defender too.

He was healthy in the playoffs and is healthy now, so you have to roll with that. Allows GSW to hide Lee defensive when he's in as well. And Lee's so solid offensively that he's easily worth it (especially with Bogut defensively). Curry/Iggy/Barnes/Lee/Bogut with Klay as a 6th man is the way I think they should lean rotation wise if those 6 stay, and it's pretty filthy on both ends.

shep33
07-06-2013, 05:50 PM
David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

Ridiculous statement

edit: just read your explanation

Goose17
07-06-2013, 05:50 PM
David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

LOL! Bogut soft? What?

Lee is an awful defender. Bogut when healthy is one of the best defenders in the paint.


And injuries don't really come into it, D12 hasn't exactly been injury free.

Also Boguts injuries were freak accidents, point out a player that wouldn't break their elbow after being pushed while in mid-air moving at full speed and landing awkwardly on top of it? Point out a player that hasn't rolled their ankle when they awkwardly land on another guys foot?

It's not like he's just randomly tearing ligaments. It's just really ****** luck.

nycericanguy
07-06-2013, 05:52 PM
I felt this way too, but I see Curry,Barnes and Thomson making a huge improvement which makes them better.

Also I think Delfino comes back at the vet min, I don't see any other teams offering him a contract, maybe the Heat or Thunder?

A lot of wing players, high usage wing players... I feel like they are going to stunt Barnes growth, and I think he's going to be a very good player. Reminds me of a young Jamison.

And looking at the numbers, Jack was better than Iggy last year. Iggy will upgrade their defense... but I don't think it was worth what they gave up... I thought they made that move because they knew Howard would follow, but on its own... bad move... and that contract is going to look bad in a few years.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 05:52 PM
How did Barnes play bad all season? He was the fourth option on offense, played good defense, rebounded the ball well, and showed glimpses of being able to take over games. That was in the regular season. In the post-season he got more touches, and look what he did. Do you even watch ****ing basketball? Barnes is considered one of the young up and coming stars in the game.


How exactly do we lack defense? Cause from what I can remember Iguodala is an elite defender, Thompson is a very good defender, Barnes a solid defender, Bogut is a very good defender and is an elite shot blocker. Our wing defense is going to be great next season, and that's where most teams rely on their scoring. Not to mention Curry took strides with his defensive play last season. All that, and you don't think Iguodala's going to make Thompson and Barnes better defenders? Going up against him in practice everyday isn't good for Barnes and Thompson?

I feel like I just wasted my time cause this cat clearly don't know basketball

Lol just stop Monta, some people just dont understand. Let the Warriors surprise just like last season.

Goose17
07-06-2013, 05:52 PM
Maybe i'm in the minority, but I'm not even sure the Warriors improved this year. They gave up a lot to sign Iggy.

Landry was big for them, and Jack was 6th man of the year type material. You can make the case that Jack was better than Iggy last year. They lose outside shooting with Rush also. That's not even considering the 3-4 picks they gave up for him.

Iggy has been in an offensive decline for 5-6 years now, he's a solid rebounder, passer and defender, but to me, Barnes might overtake him as early as next season. Now you'll have Iggy taking minutes from Barnes.

Rockets added the best big man in the game, and really didn't lose any key pieces from last year aside from maybe Delfino.

LOL Jack better than Iggy? In his very wet dreams maybe. Jack is an above average point guard, there's dozens of guards on his level that play for less.



My post from the Dubs forum... read and be enlightened.



Wanted to talk about this in more depth, seen some strange opinions I don't quite understand how people can see this as a bad move.



Just some quick notes. First of all let's talk about what we've given up.

- Biedrins. Overpaid scrub who wouldn't look out of place in the D-league.

- Jefferson. See above^

- B.Rush. A solid defender and decent 3 point shooter that has suffered two ACL tears and has averaged less than 10 PPG in his entire career.

- Second round picks. Bleh.

- First round picks that wouldn't be that good because we're unlikely to be a lottery team.

- Jarret Jack. A decent ball handler, slightly above average point guard who had tunnel vision. Easily replaceable with a cheaper option.

- Landry. An above average PF, good but not special.



And what did we get in return?

Andre Iguodala.

So what about Iggy? Well stats never tell the whole story, there's more to basketball than numbers, but a quick glance at the numbers gives you an idea of what he's capable of.

First of all, when Iggy was on the floor for Denver last season, their points allowed per 100 possessions was tied for 7th best in the league. When Iggy was on the bench, Denvers points allowed per 100 was the 23rd worst. Meaning he took their defense from being in the bottom 10 to the top 10.

In the 2012-13 season with the Nuggets, Iguodala held opposing shooting guards to a PER of 12.7, and opposing small forwards to a PER of 9.9. Take a second and think about how deep the wing position is right now. That's some seriously impressive numbers.

On top of that when you look at his RAPM Iggy is the best out of all the "elite" wing defenders with the exception of Lebron. And it is comparable (4.2) to some of the best defensive big men in the league, I.E Noah (3.8), Marc Gasol (4.5), D12 (4.4), Larry Sanders (4.2).



Secondly, he might not score much (averaging 15 PPG for his career) but when he does score, he does it efficiently. His TS% last season was around 0.52. Iggy will never be taking the big shots on offense and he isn't a great free throw shooter, but he will potentially be surrounded by Curry, Klay and Barnes (as well as Lee), so that's not really an issue.

What about his play making? He's likely going to play a point-forward role when Curry is resting and he's more than capable of playing that role just as well as Jack did if not better. In fact, looking at their careers, Iggy has better TOV% than Jack but slightly lower AST% (Jack is 4% higher), considering he doesn't play the point position and hasn't been the primary ball handler, those are pretty astonishing numbers.



He brings athleticism and great perimeter defense, arguably the best perimeter defender in the league, he improves our two biggest flaws from last season.



So that's the numbers, what about just in general? His veteran presence is going to help, he seems to get on well with a lot of our guys. And he's going to fit in brilliantly, he's literally a perfect fit for our system. I can't wait to see him on the court with Barnes having two swingmen as versatile as that is going to be a matchup nightmare for the opponent and the defensive schemes we'll be able to utilize with those two might give us the best wing defense in the West. And unlike Denver, we're not going to try and put him into a situation where he's uncomfortable, we know exactly what we're getting, an elite defender and great slasher/cutter. We're not going to force him into throwing up shots he's not good at. If he can help spread the floor great, but that's not a necessity. Then you have to think about how much more deadly we will be on the fast break with someone as athletic as he is finishing at the rim! With all the attention Curry draws on defense we're going to have unlimited options on offense, I would like to see a team double team Curry and leave Iggy wide open to storm through the lane.



It's possible either Klay or Barnes will still be traded, but assuming our top six are going to stick around, look at our rotation;

Iggy - Barnes - Klay - Green. Name a team with a wing rotation that is better than ours.

And when everyone is healthy? Curry - Klay - Iggy - Lee - Bogut - Barnes - Ezeli - Green. That's a terrifying 8 man rotation.



The biggest negative for me is going to be;

Present day: What are we going to fill our bench with? We're lacking funds but hopefully can use the 20 mil in trade exceptions to sign a competent big man to help out while Ezeli is out and then use the remaining 2+ mil (we're going to be under the cap by 2.8 apparently) to sign some garbage minute guys to add a little more depth.

Future: What happens when Klay and Barnes contracts run out? Unless Bogut takes a massive pay cut we won't have the money to extend both, they'll likely be looking for a very fat pay rise at that point.





Before you reply, consider this for a second. When was the last time we had a core 6 guys as good as what we've got right this minute?

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:53 PM
Ridiculous statement

edit: just read your explanation

Yeah usually I type without looking at how the context can be misconstrued. I don't think their team is that great. I think losing Landry and Jack are huge depth losses. A bench can make or break a team, and right now, it is a huge issue.

Also lost Jefferson and Biedrens (sp)

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 05:53 PM
Maybe i'm in the minority, but I'm not even sure the Warriors improved this year. They gave up a lot to sign Iggy.

Landry was big for them, and Jack was 6th man of the year type material. You can make the case that Jack was better than Iggy last year. They lose outside shooting with Rush also. That's not even considering the 3-4 picks they gave up for him.

Iggy has been in an offensive decline for 5-6 years now, he's a solid rebounder, passer and defender, but to me, Barnes might overtake him as early as next season. Now you'll have Iggy taking minutes from Barnes.

Rockets added the best big man in the game, and really didn't lose any key pieces from last year aside from maybe Delfino.

It's not like the Warriors aren't going to be able replace Jack and Landry. If were able to complete this S&T with Denver, we'll have a full mid-level exception, and some (unclear) cap space. We'll have a great bench next season, and Barnes is in my opinion a strong candidate for 6th man of the year next season. As a starter he had to defer to Curry, Thompson, Lee and to an extent even Jack and Landry. Off the bench he'll be able to focus on scoring more.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 05:54 PM
Agree with you about the Dubs. People seem to forget that by adding Iggy they lost out on Jack, Landry, Rush, Jefferson and Biedrins. I don't know how they're going to replace that bench depth.


Well Jefferson and Biedrins did not play, and Rush was out all season with his 2nd ACL surgery (never good). Curry will now take on more of the playmaking duties instead of Jack, and Iggy will fill the rest of the void. And now GS replaces Jack's black hole defensively with one of the best in the game on that end. Massive, massive upgrade. They will have to figure out a way to get front court depth (especially to start the year with Ezeli out), and that will be a spot where they might use the trade exceptions that they received by dumping Biedrins and Jefferson on the Jazz (huge move). A month ago those contracts were supposed to be impossible to move. They also may get some wiggle room from a s&t with Denver.

Like I've said though, off-season is not over. This thread is premature.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 05:54 PM
Yeah usually I type without looking at how the context can be misconstrued. I don't think their team is that great. I think losing Landry and Jack are huge depth losses. A bench can make or break a team, and right now, it is a huge issue.

Also lost Jefferson and Biedrens (sp)

Jefferson and Biedrins did jack **** last season

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 05:55 PM
I don't understand how Iguodala can be so underrated.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:56 PM
Jefferson and Biedrins did jack **** last season

Do you not know what depth is? They don't have to play a ton of minutes, they do need to give you solid minutes when they are in.

With Jack gone Curry will take over playmaking duties. I see him as a deadly 3 pt shooter but nothing more than that.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 05:56 PM
I don't understand how Iguodala can be so underrated.

Because most people define a player by stats.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 05:57 PM
I don't understand how Iguodala can be so underrated.

Everyone knows he is a great defender, he is just average at best offensively and has been declining for the past 5 years in that department.

Goose17
07-06-2013, 05:57 PM
A lot of wing players, high usage wing players... I feel like they are going to stunt Barnes growth, and I think he's going to be a very good player. Reminds me of a young Jamison.


How will it stunt his growth? He's the sixth man. Did Harden have his growth stunted? And he might not even be the sixth man, it might be Klay.



And looking at the numbers, Jack was better than Iggy last year.

LOL, what stats are you looking at?

Iggy was the best perimeter defender in the league aside from Lebron. And his defensive output was comparable to Marc Gasol and many other big men (read the quoted part in my earlier post). On top of that when he was off the floor Denver had the 23rd worst defense, when he was ON the floor they had the 7th best. He's so dominant defensively, it's not even funny.

And our biggest weakness last season? Oh yeah, defense and athleticism. What does Iggy bring? Oh yeah, defense and athleticism.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 05:58 PM
Do you not know what depth is? They don't have to play a ton of minutes, they do need to give you solid minutes when they are in.

With Jack gone Curry will take over playmaking duties. I see him as a deadly 3 pt shooter but nothing more than that.

Lmfao, you stated Jefferson & Biedrins as a loss for us. Dray Green can step up and provide great defense, I would take him over Jefferson regardless of contracts. Not to mention Biedrins is completely worthless, he did nothing for us. We have an MLE, and with our front office im confident we can get a decent backup in the paint until Ezeli comes back.

WhiteSoxGod
07-06-2013, 05:58 PM
corrected

Goose17
07-06-2013, 05:59 PM
Everyone knows he is a great defender, he is just average at best offensively and has been declining for the past 5 years in that department.

His TS% is above .50 and he is still getting you 14-15 points a night. We don't need him to light up the opponent. We need an athletic wing that can cut and play elite defense. Leave the lighting people up to the other wings + Curry.

Our weakness wasn't scoring. We don't need more scoring. We need guys that an slash/cut, make plays and play strong defense. Iggy does all of those VERY well.

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 05:59 PM
Do you not know what depth is? They don't have to play a ton of minutes, they do need to give you solid minutes when they are in.

With Jack gone Curry will take over playmaking duties. I see him as a deadly 3 pt shooter but nothing more than that.

aha

steveweve
07-06-2013, 05:59 PM
Everyone knows he is a great defender, he is just average at best offensively and has been declining for the past 5 years in that department.

Maybe you should watch some games before you state RJ and Biedrins as a loss. 99% Warrior fans jumped out of their seats screaming in excitement when we shipped them.

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 05:59 PM
a superstar that can just shoot 3's? that's a first

shep33
07-06-2013, 05:59 PM
Yeah usually I type without looking at how the context can be misconstrued. I don't think their team is that great. I think losing Landry and Jack are huge depth losses. A bench can make or break a team, and right now, it is a huge issue.

Also lost Jefferson and Biedrens (sp)

We'll see how it ends up I guess, like with Houston (who's roster is also not that great right now if you step back and look at it).

KnicksorBust
07-06-2013, 06:00 PM
Warriors

Goose17
07-06-2013, 06:00 PM
People stating Jefferson and Biedrins as a "loss".

Give me an orange and any d-league player, we'll get the same production.

nycericanguy
07-06-2013, 06:01 PM
How will it stunt his growth? He's the sixth man. Did Harden have his growth stunted? And he might not even be the sixth man, it might be Klay.

Umm yes!

LOL, what stats are you looking at?

Iggy was the best perimeter defender in the league aside from Lebron. And his defensive output was comparable to Marc Gasol and many other big men (read the quoted part in my earlier post). On top of that when he was off the floor Denver had the 23rd worst defense, when he was ON the floor they had the 7th best. He's so dominant defensively, it's not even funny.

And our biggest weakness last season? Oh yeah, defense and athleticism. What does Iggy bring? Oh yeah, defense and athleticism.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jackja01&y1=2013&p2=iguodan01&y2=2013

We all agree Iggy is a better defender, but offensively Jack was better. And then you factor in the loss of Landry & Rush... again, I'm just not sure GS got better... just my opinion.

Goose17
07-06-2013, 06:01 PM
With Jack gone Curry will take over playmaking duties. I see him as a deadly 3 pt shooter but nothing more than that.

Is that post real?

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:02 PM
People stating Jefferson and Biedrins as a "loss".

Give me an orange and any d-league player, we'll get the same production.

Seriously man, its just not worth explaining to some people.

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 06:04 PM
So far I've heard:

The loss of Biedrins & Jefferson will hurt our depth.

Curry is a superstar that can only shoot three's.

Jack is better than Iguodala.

That's some ****!

Monta is beast
07-06-2013, 06:05 PM
Just peep my sig, that's depth. And we could still potentially add two very good role players.

Goose17
07-06-2013, 06:06 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jackja01&y1=2013&p2=iguodan01&y2=2013

We all agree Iggy is a better defender, but offensively Jack was better. And then you factor in the loss of Landry & Rush... again, I'm just not sure GS got better... just my opinion.

Landry and Rush are easily replaced.

As for those stats, margins matter. Jack was MARGINALLY better offensively he had a TS% that was only 2% higher and shoots free throws better. Iggy is in a whole other universe defensively. You're getting very similar production offensively but from a guy who will cut/slash and run the break better which is what we need (NOT another shooter like Jack) plus he can distribute just as well and create plays for others and on top of that he's arguably the best perimeter defender in the league (exception; LBJ) AND Iggy doesn't suffer from tunnel vision like Jack did.

It's not even close.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:08 PM
Just peep my sig, that's depth. And we could still potentially add two very good role players.

Might sound ignorant, but I'm not worried at all about our front office putting together a decent bench this off season. Look at all the moves they have made since taking over, + Jerry West always has a trick up his sleeve. haha

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:08 PM
Landry and Rush are easily replaced.

As for those stats, margins matter. Jack was MARGINALLY better offensively he had a TS% that was only 2% higher and shoots free throws better. Iggy is in a whole other universe defensively. You're getting very similar production offensively but from a guy who will cut/slash and run the break better which is what we need (NOT another shooter like Jack) plus he can distribute just as well and create plays for others and on top of that he's arguably the best perimeter defender in the league (exception; LBJ) AND Iggy doesn't suffer from tunnel vision like Jack did.

It's not even close.

Yeah, we will miss Rush but most people don't even realize he didn't play last year..

Goose17
07-06-2013, 06:17 PM
Yeah, we will miss Rush but most people don't even realize he didn't play last year..

We'll miss him but people need to stop making him out for something he's not. He's a roleplayer that's all.

And most people don't realise he's now torn his ACL twice.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 06:17 PM
Landry and Rush are easily replaced.

As for those stats, margins matter. Jack was MARGINALLY better offensively he had a TS% that was only 2% higher and shoots free throws better. Iggy is in a whole other universe defensively. You're getting very similar production offensively but from a guy who will cut/slash and run the break better which is what we need (NOT another shooter like Jack) plus he can distribute just as well and create plays for others and on top of that he's arguably the best perimeter defender in the league (exception; LBJ) AND Iggy doesn't suffer from tunnel vision like Jack did.

It's not even close.

The tunnel vision offensively is what those who did not watch GSW+Jack and just see the stats don't get about him. He's Monta-ish in that vein. And in my opinion Jack is bad for an offense as a whole, especially one with as many young weapons as GS has. Defensively? He's as bad as there is at the guard position. I'm thrilled that he's gone. But obviously the team still has depth issues to work out, which I'm sure they will.

Iggy's size + rebounding along with that athleticism and defense just put the two on entirely different plains.

lakerfan85
07-06-2013, 06:19 PM
Lol just stop Monta, some people just dont understand. Let the Warriors surprise just like last season.

I think you guys are gonna be really good next season.. I see you guys challenging the Clips for the division and possibly finishing with the third seed as long as everybody stays healthy...

Goose17
07-06-2013, 06:20 PM
The tunnel vision offensively is what those who did not watch GSW+Jack and just see the stats don't get about JJ. He's Monta-ish in that vein. And in my opinion Jack is bad for an offense as a whole, especially one with as many young weapons as GS has. Defensively? He's as bad as there is at the guard position. I'm thrilled that he's gone. But obviously the team still has depth issues to work out, which I'm sure they will.

Iggy's size + rebounding along with that athleticism and defense just put the two on entirely different plains.

I liked the guy but it was frustrating watching him dribble the ball for 23 seconds then fire a step back jumper.

WhiteSoxGod
07-06-2013, 06:21 PM
Sorry, had to correct some typos. Here's why I think the Rockets will be better:

I think having the league's best center and the leagues best SG (arguably of course top 3 unquestionably) makes for an excellent foundation. I think the Rockets role players are underrated. Chandler Parsons is a swiss army knife. He can defend, cut, hit 3's, create his own shot, and is as cheap as they come salary wise for the next 2 seasons.

Donatas Motiejunas is going to be the leagues biggest surprise next year. He's a legitimate 7-footer than can hit 3's and drive to the hoop. He can stretch the floor tremendously and fits well with the rockets new team. Then you have some perimeter shooters in Omri Casspi and Francisco Garcia that will further help stretch the floor.

Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin are both young assets. If we keep Asik, we will have the best 1-2 center combination in the league. Our interior defense will be amazing no matter which one is on the floor. Jeremy Lin is one of the most underrated players in the NBA now. Last year he was slightly overrated going onto the Rockets. He had a 4.40 WS and a 16 APER (the league average APER was 12 last year). Remember his PER with the Knicks was 19.86, his only been in the NBA 3 years. He will improve and get much better.

They also have Greg Smith and Patrick Beverly, both key role players from last year. They are cheap and their advanced metrics are excellent. They are young and provide great bench depth.

The Rockets have a stockpile of draft picks to continue to get better. They still have the room exception to use as well.

For all of these reasons i believe the Rockets will be top 3 in the West and top 5 in the NBA next season.

lakerfan85
07-06-2013, 06:21 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jackja01&y1=2013&p2=iguodan01&y2=2013

We all agree Iggy is a better defender, but offensively Jack was better. And then you factor in the loss of Landry & Rush... again, I'm just not sure GS got better... just my opinion.

Rush played like 1 game last season.. How does he factor in??

nycericanguy
07-06-2013, 06:21 PM
Landry and Rush are easily replaced.

As for those stats, margins matter. Jack was MARGINALLY better offensively he had a TS% that was only 2% higher and shoots free throws better. Iggy is in a whole other universe defensively. You're getting very similar production offensively but from a guy who will cut/slash and run the break better which is what we need (NOT another shooter like Jack) plus he can distribute just as well and create plays for others and on top of that he's arguably the best perimeter defender in the league (exception; LBJ) AND Iggy doesn't suffer from tunnel vision like Jack did.

It's not even close.

Jack did that while playing 6mpg less, if you look at their per minute production, or PER 36, Jack blows away Iggy offensively last year.

But again, it's not just Jack vs Iggy debate... Landry was another huge piece.

I like GSW, I just don't think it was a good move, paying Jack $6m and keeping all the assets would have been better longterm.

Chronz
07-06-2013, 06:22 PM
The way I see it, it depends on which team you feel did more to improve itself. The Rockets and Warriors weren't so different last year, by many metrics, the Rockets actually had the better regular season.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:22 PM
I think you guys are gonna be really good next season.. I see you guys challenging the Clips for the division and possibly finishing with the third seed as long as everybody stays healthy...

Appreciate it bro, it will be a thrill to watch them this season. Hopefully Bogut can stay on the court, good luck to your Lakers, lot of cap space comin up after this season

tredigs
07-06-2013, 06:23 PM
I liked the guy but it was frustrating watching him dribble the ball for 23 seconds then fire a step back jumper.

I liked his interviews and attitude, but he was the most infuriating player I've watched as a W's fan along with Monta. There's no doubt he hit big shots, but like you said, running down the clock only to throw up a leaner was killing us. The Jarret "Jack" as I called it.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:25 PM
Yeah I am sorry I don't think Curry is a superstar. I remember when GS fans hyped Monta. Curry does 1 thing well and that is shoot 3's other than that he is average across the boards.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:26 PM
The Warriors & Rockets debate is pretty similar to Jordan/Kobe/Lebron. Everyone has a fair argument, it can go on for days... The off-season is just getting started, expect more shakeups from both teams. Both have very bright futures, can't wait for them to face off.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 06:27 PM
The way I see it, it depends on which team you feel did more to improve itself. The Rockets and Warriors weren't so different last year, by many metrics, the Rockets actually had the better regular season.

That's tough. Warriors were also without Bogut for most of the regular season and may see more internal improvement out of Curry + Barnes + Klay then the Rockets will.

lakerfan85
07-06-2013, 06:29 PM
Yeah I am sorry I don't think Curry is a superstar. I remember when GS fans hyped Monta. Curry does 1 thing well and that is shoot 3's other than that he is average across the boards.

Lol!! Ok...

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:30 PM
The Warriors & Rockets debate is pretty similar to Jordan/Kobe/Lebron. Everyone has a fair argument, it can go on for days... The off-season is just getting started, expect more shakeups from both teams. Both have very bright futures, can't wait for them to face off.

It is not similar. Because in one instance you are talking about all time greats, and in another you are talking about a couple of slight above average teams.

kylem4711
07-06-2013, 06:30 PM
i think houston will be better. i think people are really underestimating the loss of richard jefferson. :smoking:

but seriously, i think houston will be better

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:31 PM
Lol!! Ok...

When he shows up I will eat my words. I did with Leonard when he stepped up big. I will do it for Kyrie if he does it. And I am not worried about Curry because I still don't think he is special.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:33 PM
It is not similar. Because in one instance you are talking about all time greats, and in another you are talking about a couple of slight above average teams.

Man you guys lack common sense, I was comparing the Houston and Warrior COMPARISON to the comparisons of lebron/kobe/mj. Im not comparing houston and the warriors to the actual players, i was saying the arguements are similiar. It can go either way, just depends on your opinion. Use your brain.

jezzyman05
07-06-2013, 06:35 PM
I have to say the Golden State Warrior have really improved their team by just adding Iggy, what's being overlooked about Iggy is that he is a playmaker.

With Curry and Iggy on the floor together will cause havoc for the defense I don't think that Barnes will come off the bench he is too much of a better overall defender on the wing than Klay.

Houston did good by getting Dwight Howard and will improve the defense a lot but, Houston as of right now dosent have a answer at their PF spot and no one on that roster is ready to take the spot, Also Beverly I don't think Beverly is capable of starting at PG for this Rockets team they need someone to help create a shot for Dwight because we all know he can't do it, they released Aaron Brooks. Jeremy Lin is not a shot creator as much as everyone wants him to be, also the Rockets will lack bench depth which is where guys like Aaron Brook Royce White will come in to play there is no solid 6th Man.

I not bashing the Rockets at all I glad they are relevant again (better than the mavericks) but to say right now that the rockets will be better is ridiculous...the warrior have the better team.

nycericanguy
07-06-2013, 06:36 PM
So far I've heard:

The loss of Biedrins & Jefferson will hurt our depth.

Curry is a superstar that can only shoot three's.

Jack is better than Iguodala.

That's some ****!

DIdn't you agree with me in the Dwight Howard thread about GSW giving up too much for Iggy and not being sure if it was worth it?

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:37 PM
Man you guys lack common sense, I was comparing the Houston and Warrior COMPARISON to the comparisons of lebron/kobe/mj. Im not comparing houston and the warriors to the actual players, i was saying the arguements are similiar. It can go either way, just depends on your opinion. Use your brain.

It can't go either way. One team is better than the other and it is obvious to everyone but Warriors fans. Delusion runs in the veins of the west coast.

Goose17
07-06-2013, 06:38 PM
Yeah I am sorry I don't think Curry is a superstar. I remember when GS fans hyped Monta. Curry does 1 thing well and that is shoot 3's other than that he is average across the boards.

That's it. I'm done.

I'll bump this at the end of next season when we get our answer.

Proving people wrong, again.

Also for the record, Iggy > Jack and Landry combined.

JEDean89
07-06-2013, 06:39 PM
As a nuggets fan i am of course upset that Iggy left, and after a point in FA that a lot of the good SG's were taken up. Still he is a terrific Fit for the Warriors. They have a massive trade exception, a number of solid young players who now have playoff experience, and now have an elite perimiter and interior defender. With a coach like Mark Jackson at the helm it's difficult to imagine a scenario in which they don't become a good defensive team. Defense + 3pt shooting equals chips. It's hard to imagine them not signing a decent backup pg and backup big, there bench will be bolstered by the edition of harrison barnes. the only thing to be worried about is that Iggy sucks at shooting FT's and 3 pt shots. He has a very inconsistent stroke and it is declining. You also have to worry about a guy who relies soley on athleticism getting injured, or losing it and becoming an offensive liability, like what happened to wade at times this playoffs. Overall though this was an excellent GM move, Iggy is in his prime, and should stay at his current level for at least the next 3 years. He also has a way of instilling chemistry into a team and taking them to a higher level. the Gallo, Lawson, Iggy Trio was becoming elite. The Curry, Iggy, Bogut trio should be better and they have a very nice supporting cast to go around it. Competent youth is a luxury in the NBA, few teams have young guys that win playoff series and I have to say the Warriors are gonna be a force in the NBA next year.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:42 PM
That's it. I'm done.

I'll bump this at the end of next season when we get our answer.

Proving people wrong, again.

Also for the record, Iggy > Jack and Landry combined.

And I will bump this in 3 years when Curry is being traded to the Bucks for Larry Sanders.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:43 PM
It can't go either way. One team is better than the other and it is obvious to everyone but Warriors fans. Delusion runs in the veins of the west coast.

So one team is clearly better? With the off-season just getting underway. There is obviously a better team that will come out on top at the end of the season? Please, state your opinion.

jezzyman05
07-06-2013, 06:44 PM
Sorry, had to correct some typos. Here's why I think the Rockets will be better:

I think having the league's best center and the leagues best SG (arguably of course top 3 unquestionably) makes for an excellent foundation. I think the Rockets role players are underrated. Chandler Parsons is a swiss army knife. He can defend, cut, hit 3's, create his own shot, and is as cheap as they come salary wise for the next 2 seasons.

Donatas Motiejunas is going to be the leagues biggest surprise next year. He's a legitimate 7-footer than can hit 3's and drive to the hoop. He can stretch the floor tremendously and fits well with the rockets new team. Then you have some perimeter shooters in Omri Casspi and Francisco Garcia that will further help stretch the floor.

Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin are both young assets. If we keep Asik, we will have the best 1-2 center combination in the league. Our interior defense will be amazing no matter which one is on the floor. Jeremy Lin is one of the most underrated players in the NBA now. Last year he was slightly overrated going onto the Rockets. He had a 4.40 WS and a 16 APER (the league average APER was 12 last year). Remember his PER with the Knicks was 19.86, his only been in the NBA 3 years. He will improve and get much better.

They also have Greg Smith and Patrick Beverly, both key role players from last year. They are cheap and their advanced metrics are excellent. They are young and provide great bench depth.

The Rockets have a stockpile of draft picks to continue to get better. They still have the room exception to use as well.

For all of these reasons i believe the Rockets will be top 3 in the West and top 5 in the NBA next season.

That's banking on a lot of what-ifs to become surprises.....To say that Montejunas to become a legitimate PF is really a stretch man, Donatas need to imporve on multiple areas and I don't think he is really just yet, just saying man I watch Rockets basketball too (not as much as the spurs) and I didn't see Donatas impress all that much.

Beverley is a solid role player maybe a 6th man guy, he is not a starting caliber player by any means signing Casspi and Garcia were good pickups but your bench needs a 6th Man.

Jeremy Lin where do i start, he struggled a lot last season and he is not what your young team needs maybe if Lin learned how to pass the ball and be a shot creator, you can dazzle people by posting Lins APER but the truth of the matter is that he averaged 6.2 ast and 3 turnovers a game thats average man for a starting PG. Lin needs to have closer to a 3 to 1 turnover ratio to be taken serious as a floor General..Lin is who he is, I'm sorry but Jeremy Lin is overrated and to depend on him to run your offense is ridiculous.

James Harden is a beast and teamed with Howard they will make a deadly combo but out side of Parsens, Harden, and Howard the Rockets are very weak and very raw....I don't see a top 3 team in the west next year, but I do see a top 3 team in west the year after.

The Thunder, Spurs and Clippers are still better teams than the rockets right now...however I see the Rockets passing the Clippers if they can bring in some solid pieces to fill that bench

Iron24th
07-06-2013, 06:44 PM
Gs imo.

They got an elite defender with iggy.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:44 PM
And I will bump this in 3 years when Curry is being traded to the Bucks for Larry Sanders.

Fail troll. Are you jealous or something?

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Gs imo.

They got an elite defender with iggy.

Dwight isn't an elite defender. Tell me more.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:48 PM
Fail troll. Are you jealous or something?

Of what? A second round exit? No I am not jealous, my team has gone back to back with no one in sight to stop them. Deal with it.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 06:48 PM
Dwight isn't an elite defender. Tell me more.

I'm waiting for your opinion on who "clearly" has a better team. State your reasons?

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 06:54 PM
I'm waiting for your opinion on who "clearly" has a better team. State your reasons?

Houston. They are a more improved version of what Dwight played with in Orlando. They have outside shooters in Harden and Parsons that know how to work the ball in. Defensively they have improved drastically in the center of the floor. Not only that but Harden will actually have a full offseason to work with his teammates. He came in 2 days before the season started last year and played on the go.

I think the Warriors lost depth, they can sign some players I understand that but they lost one of the best backup PG's and a pretty good PF in Landry. They added Iggy but that doesn't improve their bench.

WhiteSoxGod
07-06-2013, 06:55 PM
That's banking on a lot of what-ifs to become surprises.....To say that Montejunas to become a legitimate PF is really a stretch man, Donatas need to imporve on multiple areas and I don't think he is really just yet, just saying man I watch Rockets basketball too (not as much as the spurs) and I didn't see Donatas impress all that much.

Beverley is a solid role player maybe a 6th man guy, he is not a starting caliber player by any means signing Casspi and Garcia were good pickups but your bench needs a 6th Man.

Jeremy Lin where do i start, he struggled a lot last season and he is not what your young team needs maybe if Lin learned how to pass the ball and be a shot creator, you can dazzle people by posting Lins APER but the truth of the matter is that he averaged 6.2 ast and 3 turnovers a game thats average man for a starting PG that in the bottom half, Lin needs to have closer to a 3 to 1 turnover ratio to be taken serious as a floor General..Lin is who he is, I'm sorry but Jeremy Lin is overrated and to depend on him to run your offense is ridiculous.

James Harden is a beast and teamed with Howard they will make a deadly combo but out side of Parsens, Harden, and Howard the Rockets are very weak and very raw....I don't see a top 3 team in the west next year, but I do see a top 3 team in west the year after.

Well Motiejunas only needs to work on his defense and ability to guard the 4 (of course related to his size). He has added 20 lbs of muscle this offseason, he is a perfect stretch 4. He just did not fit with our team as well last season.

As far as Lin, people that say he is overrated never actually look at the advanced metrics and certainly must not realize he is very young. Lin had a decent season, not great but decent. He will improve, we have seen what he can do when he produced an almost 20 PER with the Knicks. Beverly and Lin compliment each other. Casspri, Garcia, Greg Smith, Omer Asik, Beverly, and Terrence Jones make a damn good foundation for our bench.

jezzyman05
07-06-2013, 07:08 PM
Well Motiejunas only needs to work on his defense and ability to guard the 4 (of course related to his size). He has added 20 lbs of muscle this offseason, he is a perfect stretch 4. He just did not fit with our team as well last season.

As far as Lin, people that say he is overrated never actually look at the advanced metrics and certainly must not realize he is very young. Lin had a decent season, not great but decent. He will improve, we have seen what he can do when he produced an almost 20 PER with the Knicks. Beverly and Lin compliment each other. Casspri, Garcia, Greg Smith, Omer Asik, Beverly, and Terrence Jones make a damn good foundation for our bench.

I understand what Lin can do and I know Lin can improve....trust me I'm a spurs fan and I saw the emergence of Tony Parker, at first Tony was a scorer it took years for him to become a elite passer...so I see a small similarity between him and Tony, but unless Lin can bring down theses turnover numbers he will be overrated I know his advance stats are good but stats don't always tell the whole story. A 2 to 1 turnover ratio is not good (average) at best and with Dwight Howard coming to town your going to need an elite passer to help Dwight get his shots.

I forgot about Terrence Jones to be honest, yes that actually is a good foundation for a solid bench.

I like the Rockets I have nothing against them at all (except Hakeem) I glad they are relevant again now the I-10 rivalry is good again....looking forward to next season

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:15 PM
Houston. They are a more improved version of what Dwight played with in Orlando. They have outside shooters in Harden and Parsons that know how to work the ball in. Defensively they have improved drastically in the center of the floor. Not only that but Harden will actually have a full offseason to work with his teammates. He came in 2 days before the season started last year and played on the go.

I think the Warriors lost depth, they can sign some players I understand that but they lost one of the best backup PG's and a pretty good PF in Landry. They added Iggy but that doesn't improve their bench.

Fair arguement, I'm not going to bash your opinion because everyone has a right to have one.

However,

"They have outside shooters in Harden and Parsons that know how to work the ball in." - You can say the same exact thing with Stephen Curry/Iggy

"Defensively they have improved drastically in the center of the floor" - Warriors drastically improved defense on the perimeter.

Andrew Bogut - In a contract year, don't expect him to milk injuries this season

The loss of Jarret Jack - Jack was a great player for us last season, no doubt. He and Landry def carried us at times in last games during the Reg Season. And it's a fair argument to say that they were a huge part of our teams success. However, while Jack was great offensively. He tended to kill the momentum during many games with the Warriors, most Warrior fans will be the first to tell you. Most games, many times he would dribble out the shot clock with no ball movement, and fire up a fade away jumper that would have no chance of going in, despite another player with the hot hand.. His shot selection was very questionable.

With Igudola he is a professional, he understands his role on the team and he wont be trying to be the hero every night. He gives us the player that we can put on the other teams star, he will provide excellent defense. He can also guard multiple positions. --- Lets not get into Jack's defense..

As of right now, we have a pathetic bench. As it stands Barnes will be coming off the bench, yes it has a shot at stunting his growth, but he will still be getting his minutes with Iggy having the ability to play the PG.

Landry's loss: We are still yet to make a move for a backup PF/C, but the off season literally has just begun, both rosters will have more changes.

David Lee: The man who led the league in Double Doubles last year, the double-double machine. Coming off a hip flexor injury, no one is talking about him. All focus goes to Iggy as well as curry-thompson-barnes. Don't be surprised if he has another All-Star caliber season this year.

Those are my opinions on where the Warriors CURRENTLY stand, with more moves to come obviously. It's pretty ignorant to assume one team of being "clearly" better than the other. Also, I wasn't surprised at all with your claim of being a Heat fan. If Lebron leaves in 2014, im guessing you will have a new favorite team.

Lake_Show2416
07-06-2013, 07:20 PM
Warriors, they showed when healthy that they are a major factor & they only got better with the signing of an elite perimeter defender, that puts either Barnes or Klay on the bench which will add to the depth, if they lose Jack & Landry they can still sign a couple good role players to replace them, tho there's a chance of them keeping at least 1 of them, all led by an emerging super star in Curry who can shoot the lights out, pass, handle & drive

Curry > Harden

idk how well Dwight will work with Harden, Harden is a ball dominate SG who drains a lot of clock similar to Kobe, Warriors compliment each other better

Lake_Show2416
07-06-2013, 07:20 PM
Double Post

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:23 PM
Houston. They are a more improved version of what Dwight played with in Orlando. They have outside shooters in Harden and Parsons that know how to work the ball in. Defensively they have improved drastically in the center of the floor. Not only that but Harden will actually have a full offseason to work with his teammates. He came in 2 days before the season started last year and played on the go.

I think the Warriors lost depth, they can sign some players I understand that but they lost one of the best backup PG's and a pretty good PF in Landry. They added Iggy but that doesn't improve their bench.

By the way-- This goes for both teams, neither have proven anything yet. Lets not forget what happend to the Lakers last season with Nash-Kobe-Gasol-Howard. It may look good on paper, but you will never know how effective each team will be until we see them on the court together.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:24 PM
Houston. They are a more improved version of what Dwight played with in Orlando. They have outside shooters in Harden and Parsons that know how to work the ball in. Defensively they have improved drastically in the center of the floor. Not only that but Harden will actually have a full offseason to work with his teammates. He came in 2 days before the season started last year and played on the go.

I think the Warriors lost depth, they can sign some players I understand that but they lost one of the best backup PG's and a pretty good PF in Landry. They added Iggy but that doesn't improve their bench.

By the way-- This goes for both teams, neither have proven anything yet. Lets not forget what happened to the Lakers last season with Nash-Kobe-Gasol-Howard. It may look good on paper, but you will never know how effective each team will be until we see them on the court together.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:27 PM
By the way-- This goes for both teams, neither have proven anything yet. Lets not forget what happened to the Lakers last season with Nash-Kobe-Gasol-Howard. It may look good on paper, but you will never know how effective each team will be until we see them on the court together.

Pretty sure everyone besides Lakers fans knew that that lineup wouldn't work. I had them as a 5 seed in a couple threads before the season because there is only 1 ball.

NoahH
07-06-2013, 07:29 PM
Golden State.

Barnes is the early favorite for 6th man of the year!

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:32 PM
Pretty sure everyone besides Lakers fans knew that that lineup wouldn't work. I had them as a 5 seed in a couple threads before the season because there is only 1 ball.

BTW most professional sports analysts around the world had the Lakers top 3 in the West, so to say everyone knew they wouldn't mesh is pretty inaccurate. No one knew for a fact what would happen, but I guess you do... Man you are so smart, you should get your own TV show or something.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:34 PM
BTW most professional sports analysts around the world had the Lakers top 3 in the West, so to say everyone knew they wouldn't mesh is pretty inaccurate. No one knew for a fact what would happen, but I guess you do... Man you are so smart, you should get your own TV show or something.

I should, you are right.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:36 PM
I should, you are right.

And calling Warrior fans delusional truly displays how big of a homer you are. Arguably the best fan base in the NBA, it's been forever since we have had a contending team. Lets not talk about "your teams" fan base. Tough enough to show up in the first quarter.

WARRIORS@GR
07-06-2013, 07:36 PM
Ok,chitownbears has said many stupid things in this thread..but nobody in sight to stop the heat?did you watch game 6?or were you one of those who quit on their team during the game?

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:38 PM
Ok,chitownbears has said many stupid things in this thread..but nobody in sight to stop the heat?did you watch game 6?or were you one of those who quit on their team during the game?

na bro no one has a chance to beat the Heat, he probably predicted the Ray Allen desperation 3 point shot too. This guy is onto something :shrug:

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:39 PM
Ok,chitownbears has said many stupid things in this thread..but nobody in sight to stop the heat?did you watch game 6?or were you one of those who quit on their team during the game?

I watched game 6. I didn't change the channel, I was nervous as crap but who isn't when their team is down 5 with under 30 seconds to play. Game 7 I was not worried at all, I saw champions dominate the best the West had to offer. Hell the Spurs are still better than the Warriors at this point, they might last 5 games with Miami. Let me know when they are on a championship level. Then we can talk

WhiteSoxGod
07-06-2013, 07:40 PM
...

Chronz
07-06-2013, 07:40 PM
That's tough. Warriors were also without Bogut for most of the regular season and may see more internal improvement out of Curry + Barnes + Klay then the Rockets will.

We should all view Bogut as a FA addition and an irrelevant figure in last years Warriors core/win count.

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:41 PM
I watched game 6. I didn't change the channel, I was nervous as crap but who isn't when their team is down 5 with under 30 seconds to play. Game 7 I was not worried at all, I saw champions dominate the best the West had to offer. Hell the Spurs are still better than the Warriors at this point, they might last 5 games with Miami. Let me know when they are on a championship level. Then we can talk

You were nervous as crap when your team was down with the ring on the line, but no one has a chance of beating the Heat?

steveweve
07-06-2013, 07:42 PM
This guy has contradicted himself many times already lol, im done but it was a fun conversation ChitownBears22. Enjoy your season next year

WARRIORS@GR
07-06-2013, 07:47 PM
This guy has contradicted himself many times already lol, im done but it was a fun conversation ChitownBears22. Enjoy your season next year
This

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 07:49 PM
You were nervous as crap when your team was down with the ring on the line, but no one has a chance of beating the Heat?

So I was nervous in a timeframe where panic is warranted means anything? Last time I checked they won. Something like that won't happen to them again. They learn everytime they make a mistake. The HEAT just get stronger while opponents try to copy their strategy and fail.

jam
07-06-2013, 07:52 PM
If Dwight is healthy, HOU will, conservatively, have 2 of the top 15, and more likely 2 of the top 10 players in the game with D and Harden.

Add Parsons, Asik and Lin to the mix, and you have a very young and incredibly talented team which will contend for years to come.

I see the rockets as a 55-57 win team this upcoming season. They will make the second round, and will have an outside chance of making the WCF.

WhiteSoxGod
07-06-2013, 07:53 PM
I understand what Lin can do and I know Lin can improve....trust me I'm a spurs fan and I saw the emergence of Tony Parker, at first Tony was a scorer it took years for him to become a elite passer...so I see a small similarity between him and Tony, but unless Lin can bring down theses turnover numbers he will be overrated I know his advance stats are good but stats don't always tell the whole story. A 2 to 1 turnover ratio is not good (average) at best and with Dwight Howard coming to town your going to need an elite passer to help Dwight get his shots.

I forgot about Terrence Jones to be honest, yes that actually is a good foundation for a solid bench.

I like the Rockets I have nothing against them at all (except Hakeem) I glad they are relevant again now the I-10 rivalry is good again....looking forward to next season

I agree Lin needs to get better with the turnovers. But he was better in that area than some players you wouldn't discount as much and some that are making quite more money than him:

Monta Ellis
Kyrie Irving
Tyreke Evans
Eric Bledsoe
Brandon Knight

And he was almost the same in T-2-A ratio as Jrue Holiday, Jerred Bayless, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, and Damien Lillard. All of these guys had T-2-A ratio's within .14 of each other.

Jeremy Lin's Assists per 48 minutes is 9.0 making him 15th in the league (better than most of the players above including Brandon Jennings and Stephen Curry). Again, not great but let's be real he is much better than most give him credit for.

WARRIORS@GR
07-06-2013, 07:54 PM
So I was nervous in a timeframe where panic is warranted means anything? Last time I checked they won. Something like that won't happen to them again. They learn everytime they make a mistake. The HEAT just get stronger while opponents try to copy their strategy and fail.You said nobody can threat them.
They needed 2 miracle shots and a couple bad coaching decisions to force game 7 and win.
What you said is beyond stupid.

jam
07-06-2013, 08:08 PM
I didn't see this post earlier, but yes, I agree that Donuts is a defensive liability right now. He also needs to work on his rebounding.

I see the offensive potential, but he shot 29% from 3 point range. That's unacceptable. He shoots nearly 6 3's a game per 36.

He's got terrific upside, but it will take him years and years to develop; I'd say he's a 4 to 5 year project.

Size is part of the issue, but it's also his mentality: he's a finesse big and doesn't like to mix it up in the paint.

---

I'm a huge fan of Lin's game, but McHale clearly lacks confidence in him, preferring to give harden ballhandling duties, and often leaving Lin on the bench in the 4th quarter in favor of Bev.

It was ugly watching Harden grind his gears into the dust in the last 1/3 or even the entire second half of the season.

Mchale is an inexperienced coach, and he is absolutely struggling to integrate the talents of his guard corps.

Acquiring D will cover up for a lot of his coaching mistakes, but this is a long term issue that Mchale doesn't seem to have a ready answer for.


Well Motiejunas only needs to work on his defense and ability to guard the 4 (of course related to his size). He has added 20 lbs of muscle this offseason, he is a perfect stretch 4. He just did not fit with our team as well last season.

As far as Lin, people that say he is overrated never actually look at the advanced metrics and certainly must not realize he is very young. Lin had a decent season, not great but decent. He will improve, we have seen what he can do when he produced an almost 20 PER with the Knicks. Beverly and Lin compliment each other. Casspri, Garcia, Greg Smith, Omer Asik, Beverly, and Terrence Jones make a damn good foundation for our bench.

tredigs
07-06-2013, 08:12 PM
You said nobody can threat them.
They needed 2 miracle shots and a couple bad coaching decisions to force game 7 and win.
What you said is beyond stupid.

Not to mention that Wade is, unfortunately, looking increasingly worse (I like Wade) and the team who was closest to beating San Antonio in the West essentially added 2 All Star caliber players in Lee + Iggy (to who SAS saw last season). I'm not sleeping on OKC either. There's definitely multiple squads right now that are shaping up to be true contenders.

It's the same guy who believes Curry does nothing great outside of deadly 3pt shooting. Essentially he's saying that Curry is Matt Bonner. Fact of the matter is that - as everyone knows - the guy has elite playmaking skills and will just as happily dribble drive for a jumper/floater or kick-out or finish at the rim. The ChiTown character is either a troll or just lacks basic knowledge on the games elite players. I assume he's doing it for the attention though.

I'm still curious how this Iggy deal will be ironed out though. It will make a difference on the potential for what bench options GS is bringing in.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 08:19 PM
Not to mention that Wade is, unfortunately, looking increasingly worse (I like Wade) and the team who was closest to beating San Antonio in the West essentially added 2 All Star caliber players in Lee + Iggy (to who SAS saw last season). I'm not sleeping on OKC either. There's definitely multiple squads right now that are shaping up to be true contenders.

It's the same guy who believes Curry does nothing great outside of deadly 3pt shooting. Essentially he's saying that Curry is Matt Bonner. Fact of the matter is that - as everyone knows - the guy has elite playmaking skills and will just as happily dribble drive for a jumper/floater or kick-out or finish at the rim. The ChiTown character is either a troll or just lacks basic knowledge on the games elite players. I assume he's doing it for the attention though.

I'm still curious how this Iggy deal will be ironed out though. It will make a difference on the potential for what bench options GS is bringing in.

Wade is fine. He is just changing his role. LeBron has taken over as the captain for that team. In LeBron we Trust.

NBA-GMaster
07-06-2013, 08:30 PM
GO ROCKETS!! I wish these 2 teams meet in western finals or west semi's..

Aust
07-06-2013, 08:35 PM
It's going to be very entertaining watching these two teams play one another next season. Hopefully they can meet in the playoffs.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 08:36 PM
GO ROCKETS!! I wish these 2 teams meet in western finals or west semi's..

Don't worry, Warriors won't get that far.

obie
07-06-2013, 08:41 PM
David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

lol hahaha

tredigs
07-06-2013, 08:42 PM
Wade is fine. He is just changing his role. LeBron has taken over as the captain for that team. In LeBron we Trust.

His role is changing due to a clear regression that I think only increases this season. He's an athlete who has always relied primarily on his athleticism, and with his shooting being as bad as it's ever been, we probably aren't going to see a very potent Wade come playoffs next season. 25% from 3 and 73% from the stripe need to improve. Lebron + a weak conference still leaves them as Finals favorites, but I'm betting against a 3peat.

smith&wesson
07-06-2013, 08:46 PM
David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

bogut, soft in the paint ? It's actually the exact opposite my man.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 08:48 PM
bogut, soft in the paint ? It's actually the exact opposite my man.

Keep reading the thread. I clarified. But I guess you just scan for something to comment on then look like a tool when you realize that the full context isn' there yet.

It is ok. We forgive you lapse in judgement.

sunsfan88
07-06-2013, 09:14 PM
I'm going with the Warriors cause they don't have any idiots on their roster. Houston just gave $88 million to one.

ChitownBears22
07-06-2013, 09:16 PM
I'm going with the Warriors cause they don't have any idiots on their roster. Houston just gave $88 million to one.

Yeah you would be singing the same tune if he went to the suns. lol

WhiteSoxGod
07-06-2013, 09:17 PM
I'm going with the Warriors cause they don't have any idiots on their roster. Houston just gave $88 million to one.

LOL can't argue with that logic.

WhiteSoxGod
07-06-2013, 09:17 PM
Yeah you would be singing the same tune if he went to the suns. lol

Why they have Marcin Gortat, lol.

bgdreton
07-06-2013, 09:42 PM
Hey everyone just leave the troll chitown alone he is just mad his bears are garbage and is trying to take it out on warrior fans. I think I will be close who is better I have to see the rest of the signings this summer

waveycrockett
07-06-2013, 09:43 PM
I'd put money on the Rockets. Curry and Bogut have an injury history you just cant ignore and they are their 2 most important players.

lol, please
07-06-2013, 11:40 PM
Warriors and it's not close.

Htownballa1622
07-06-2013, 11:54 PM
yeah, cuz you're not biased^^^.

"Dwight will be a dub." remember?

D1JM
07-06-2013, 11:59 PM
golden state is better imo. especially with barnes coming in as a 6th man. i am going to buy a couple of tickets to go see them play :cheers:

D1JM
07-07-2013, 12:03 AM
I'd put money on the Rockets. Curry and Bogut have an injury history you just cant ignore and they are their 2 most important players.

iggy can anchor that d in golden state.

lol, please
07-07-2013, 12:35 AM
Curry/Jenkins/Nedovic
Klay/Barnes/Bazemore
Iggy/Barnes
Lee/Green/Tyler
Bogut/O'neal/Ezeli

:faint:

Scoots
07-07-2013, 12:49 AM
And it was still possible Jack and Landry could come back the Warriors didn't renounce their rights. Now that they've signed with other teams they are gone, but not because of the trade to Utah.

Draymond Green and Ezeli weren't bad players last year and they showed real flashes particularly Green down the stretch and he will get better. And both of them are good D players. Bazemore can play D and he too was starting to come on toward the end, but he's still very raw.

I spend a lot of time in Houston for work and I'm happy for my Rockets fan friends and for the Warriors! It's certainly looking like the power of the NBA is moving West ... heck maybe next year LeBron will move west too.

Blitzace137
07-07-2013, 01:16 AM
I think one thing everyone can agree on is both teams will be fun to watch next season. I'll be catching a good amount of Rockets and Dubs games.

b@llhog24
07-07-2013, 01:53 AM
Houston. Next.

Houstonfan818
07-07-2013, 01:58 AM
With the way our team is currently assemble, we're a lock for the WCF. Love it, Lakers are going down. Rockets on the rise.

Guppyfighter
07-07-2013, 02:12 AM
Can't believe poeple are actually voting for us.

Anyways, no team in the West is locked into any spot into the playoffs at all. That being said. Rockets are very good.

sagemania
07-07-2013, 02:15 AM
anybody who can say who will be better with any confidence whom will be better is kidding themselves. Once we shipout lin and Asik and get a legit PF we'll see.

RockBearStro
07-07-2013, 02:20 AM
Uh! Rockets, Hello ***herm Edwards voice

sagemania
07-07-2013, 02:55 AM
lets not forget despite the iggy signing, they've lost landry and jack two key pieces.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 04:17 AM
Can't believe poeple are actually voting for us.

Anyways, no team in the West is locked into any spot into the playoffs at all. That being said. Rockets are very good.

Your skepticism is on par with Warriors writer Ethan Sherwood Strauss, who has been wrong on the dubs at many junctures (always on the negative end). Maybe you're assuming they make no other FA signings and this will be their complete bench, I'm not sure?

Iggy's D in that role nearly completes the W's team, especially in the playoffs. Injuries are certainly a factor for the team and don't go un-noted, but that's a major factor for post back surgery Dwight as well. With no 3rd option in OKC, SA getting older, Denver losing to our gains, and Memphis not making any big moves as of now, I see no reason to be bearish on GS. Asik + Dwight is a terrible combo, so we'll see how they deal with that other than to limit minutes.

sunsfan88
07-07-2013, 04:37 AM
Yeah you would be singing the same tune if he went to the suns. lol

You kidding? I hate drama players. I watch sports not to see drama...there are TV shows for that.

Howard is a great player no doubt, but he brings a lot of extra baggage and I don't like that.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 05:45 AM
With the way our team is currently assemble, we're a lock for the WCF. Love it, Lakers are going down. Rockets on the rise.
A lock?spurs,okc,clippers are miles ahead of the rockets right now.
Not to mention grizz,warriors,denver.

And that's all on paper.Houston will have to change their gameplan,while all those teams have kept their core.

I won't be surprised if Houston is a 5-7 seed and 1st round exit.

Trueblue2
07-07-2013, 06:28 AM
Bogut "soft". That's a first. When he's on the floor he's easily one of the top paint protectors in the game. Huge for them in the post-season. Their wing D is now very solid as well. Like I said, it's shaping up to be a top 10 D (~14th last year). And Lee's not soft, he's actually a pretty dirty/gritty player and a tough rebounder, but he doesn't play D.

We'll see how the rest of the off-season plays out though.

This. Soft=/=White.

astonmartin10
07-07-2013, 11:20 AM
I'm going with Houston for now. Harden/Dwight is a nice duo. But GS as more rounded team. If they get decent backup PG its GS

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 11:25 AM
Houston for the simple fact that GS relies way too heavily on guys who are injured way more often than not.

lincecum=future
07-07-2013, 11:26 AM
If Houston gets a legit PF for Asik then I would give Houston a slight advantage.

Scoots
07-07-2013, 11:45 AM
Houston for the simple fact that GS relies way too heavily on guys who are injured way more often than not.

Curry and Lee have not been injured much ... except when the team was tanking :) Curry and Lee combined to miss 7 of 82 games last year. Bogut is another story.

Byronicle
07-07-2013, 12:01 PM
They lost Jack and Landry

But they got Igoudala

Igoudala is going to hinder Harrison Barnes. Igoudala is good defensively but his shooting is awful. They replaced Jack who was great off the ball, pretty clutch, better shooter and Landry who gets you those high FG%.

Who did Houston lose exactly? Royce White. They gained Dwight Howard and resulted in a huge bargaining chip in Asik who will reel them some good assets, depth.

Warriors are one ankle injury away from being a championship contenders to a playoff first round exit

Chromehounds
07-07-2013, 12:28 PM
Depending on what the W's can get for their bench, they can go far this year. If comparing only the starting line 5 or 6 guys. The W's is better, keep in mind Houston is trying to dump Lin. Howard without a good PG he's useless. D12 is not the type of center that can make his own moves to the basket, he needs a setup guy. Currently I don't think Lin's the guy, we'll see.

Scoots
07-07-2013, 12:39 PM
When Jack was in the offense stopped ... he was certainly valuable for his D and for his shot making, but he was far from perfect. Replacing his additions will be tough and will have to be a group task.

Landry was a perfect backup. Reliable but not special.

Iguodala can add a lot to Barnes' game ... Barnes seemed to like playing the 4 which he'll do more of now, and Barnes can learn some aggressiveness from Iggy. I think Iggy is going to add to Thompson, Barnes, and Green's defensive games.

8 players can play 30 minutes a night and play hard all 30 minutes.

I have not voted in the poll ... both teams are going to be very interesting.

D-Leethal
07-07-2013, 12:57 PM
Curry and Lee have not been injured much ... except when the team was tanking :) Curry and Lee combined to miss 7 of 82 games last year. Bogut is another story.

I wasn't even referring to Lee. But Curry has some of the worst ankles in basketball and Bogut has had some of the most gruesome injuries of the past decade.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 02:19 PM
The Rockets went 3-1 against Golden State this previous season. The Rockets added the best big man in the game and the Warriors added Iguodala. Iggy is going to push the Warriors over the edge, but Dwight will add nothing to the Rockets? I'm not sure I understand the logic.

JasonJohnHorn
07-07-2013, 03:07 PM
The Warriors... I think Curry is THAT good. And with Bogut healthy to start the season and Lee... they will be pretty awesome!

I'm not sure how well the Rockets will do without a All-Star level point guard running the show. Miami has won without a quality point guard, but they have LBJ and Wade to handle the ball, where as the Rockets have Lin and Harden... plus Howard isn't as dominant offensively as LBJ or Wade even if Harden is close to Wade's level.

JasonJohnHorn
07-07-2013, 03:11 PM
Warriors are one ankle injury away from being a championship contenders to a playoff first round exit

The Warriors already saw a hip injury steal their lone All-Star from their playoff run and they still won in the first round and got a couple of wins against the Spurs....

Your logic that the Warriors are an ankle injury away from a first round exit is true for most team, the ROCKETS most especially. If Dwight goes down with an injury, do you think they would be able to win in the first round when they couldn't pull it off this year?

You take the best player on a given team off of almost any team and they lose in the first round.

odiz
07-07-2013, 03:26 PM
Houston by 15+ games

THe Warriors won 47 games last year and theres no reason to think they wont at least match that this year given the addition of Iguodala and (hopefully) a more healthy Bogut. You really think think the Rockets are going to win around 65 games?

mp3
07-07-2013, 03:27 PM
I'll take the Warriors starting 5 over the Rockets starting 5 10/10 times. But I still think the Rockets will be very good and probably end up as a higher seed. I'll say the Rockets get the 3 seed and the Warriors get the 4 or 5.

1. Thunder
2. Clippers
3. Rockets
4.Warriors or Memphis

odiz
07-07-2013, 03:28 PM
David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

Bogut is fragile but hes not soft, there is a difference. When hes healthy hes a top 5 defensive center.

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 03:28 PM
Curry/ Lin
Thompson/ Harden
Igodala/ Parsons
Lee/ Montejunas
Bogut/ Howard


Both have a great lineup, it's pretty even to me.

Best players in order IN MY OPINION:

Harden
Curry
Howard
Parsons
Igodala
Lee
Thompson
Bogut
Lin
Montejunas

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 03:31 PM
Bogut is fragile but hes not soft, there is a difference. When hes healthy hes a top 5 defensive center.

Yeah when Dwight is healthy he is the BEST center hands down in the NBA, though.

odiz
07-07-2013, 03:31 PM
They lost Jack and Landry

But they got Igoudala

Igoudala is going to hinder Harrison Barnes. Igoudala is good defensively but his shooting is awful. They replaced Jack who was great off the ball, pretty clutch, better shooter and Landry who gets you those high FG%.

Who did Houston lose exactly? Royce White. They gained Dwight Howard and resulted in a huge bargaining chip in Asik who will reel them some good assets, depth.

Warriors are one ankle injury away from being a championship contenders to a playoff first round exit

And considering the Rockets were the 8th seed last year and lost in the first round they are one back injury away from also being a playoff first round exit.

Stephen Curry played 78 games last year and didnt miss a playoff game. Howard is just as injury prone as Curry is.

odiz
07-07-2013, 03:35 PM
Yeah when Dwight is healthy he is the BEST center hands down in the NBA, though.

No doubt, i wasnt saying Bogut is better defensively just that with Bogut and the addition of Iguodala the Warriors will be a pretty good defensive team next year.

Monta is beast
07-07-2013, 03:42 PM
I'll make a sig bet that the Warriors have a better record than the Rockets next season.

CluTcH_c1tY
07-07-2013, 03:43 PM
The Rockets owned the Warriors last season, so there is no sign of that changing. Now that we have Dwight i see the same outcomes. Also Harden > Curry

tp13baby
07-07-2013, 03:46 PM
When Jack was in the offense stopped ... he was certainly valuable for his D and for his shot making, but he was far from perfect. Replacing his additions will be tough and will have to be a group task.

Landry was a perfect backup. Reliable but not special.

Iguodala can add a lot to Barnes' game ... Barnes seemed to like playing the 4 which he'll do more of now, and Barnes can learn some aggressiveness from Iggy. I think Iggy is going to add to Thompson, Barnes, and Green's defensive games.

8 players can play 30 minutes a night and play hard all 30 minutes.

I have not voted in the poll ... both teams are going to be very interesting.

Iggy isn't aggressive. I watched 88 games of him. He isn't aggressive one bit. Either way I like GS if they improve their bench. I also like Houston. I think they will both be battling for the 4 and 5 seed. Spurs, OKC, and LAC will outplay them in the regular season.

To the guy saying Dwight can't play without a good PG. James Harden does everything a point guard does so I am not worried at all. Both teams will have probably 2 allstars. Dwight Harden. Curry Thompson.

BALLER R
07-07-2013, 03:48 PM
Better question what team can survive longer if their star gets injured. Houston without Dwight or Golden State without Curry?

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 03:51 PM
Better question what team can survive longer if their star gets injured. Houston without Dwight or Golden State without Curry?

Houston, they would just have the playoff team from last year

RLundi
07-07-2013, 03:53 PM
I like the Rockets better. I think Dwight goes back to his near-MVP season and Harden continues to excel. Long-term, Houston will be better and go deeper in the playoffs.

But for next season, I'll give the slight nod to the Warriors. I imagine they'll have better familiarity with each other, as there won't be any MAJOR changes to their team. Houston on the other hand has to incorporate a franchise center, give him enough touches, and alter their offensive scheme from run and gun to include more post-up opportunities for Dwight. I think it'll take time to mesh. And until it does, the Warriors will have the upper hand.

TheNumber37
07-07-2013, 03:54 PM
We've seen what the Warriors have done last season and they have learned a lot.
Losing Jack and Landry were huge, but picking up Iggy might be the difference they need.

As for the Rockets, yeah, they look to be pretty good as well, but we don't know how they will play and they also don't have a PG anyone truly trusts.

I wager that the Warriors take the season series against the Rockets. Iggy can check Harden. Bogut can play Howard (with a grudge almost being dealt for him) and Curry and Thompson will light up the Rockets backourt. On and David Lee going up against Asik, yeah, there's that.

Warriors will win more games next year but it will be close.

RLundi
07-07-2013, 03:57 PM
Curry/ Lin
Thompson/ Harden
Igodala/ Parsons
Lee/ Montejunas
Bogut/ Howard


Both have a great lineup, it's pretty even to me.

Best players in order IN MY OPINION:

Harden
Curry
Howard
Parsons
Igodala
Lee
Thompson
Bogut
Lin
Montejunas

Howard is better than Curry, and if completely healthy, better than Harden. Parsons is below Iggy and Lee too.

Dwight says he's fully healthy, so if he truly is, he'll go back to being a top-5 player. Big if.

shep33
07-07-2013, 04:21 PM
I'd say if the Warriors are healthy, I think they have an advantage in a playoff matchup against the Rox by a slim margin:

Harden vs. the Warriors last year

6-16, 3-17, 7-22, 5-11

Now throw in Iggy... that's scary right there. They literally have 3 dudes they can put on Harden. Klay, Barnes and Iggy.

Bostonjorge
07-07-2013, 05:10 PM
Warriors are the better team. Rockets just made the playoffs by 1 game last year. Adding Howard is huge but he fell off huge last year. Warriors are a young team that get a year better especially Barnes and heathy with lee and bogut.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 05:22 PM
When Jack was in the offense stopped ... he was certainly valuable for his D and for his shot making, but he was far from perfect. Replacing his additions will be tough and will have to be a group task.

Landry was a perfect backup. Reliable but not special.

Iguodala can add a lot to Barnes' game ... Barnes seemed to like playing the 4 which he'll do more of now, and Barnes can learn some aggressiveness from Iggy. I think Iggy is going to add to Thompson, Barnes, and Green's defensive games.

8 players can play 30 minutes a night and play hard all 30 minutes.

I have not voted in the poll ... both teams are going to be very interesting.

I wonder why the Rockets are steadfast on keeping an unhappy Asik after he just formally requested a trade. Both he and Howard can't dribble, pass or shoot and both are much stronger going right and in the post. The combo does not make sense to me.

Maybe it's precautionary as an insurance for Dwight's back and they'll look to trade him at the deadline if Howard looks healthy.

_KB24_
07-07-2013, 05:26 PM
Waiting to see who the Rockets can flip for Lin and Asik. I have them neck and neck right noe but if the Rockets land Anderson, that tips the favor towards them,

Scoots
07-07-2013, 05:27 PM
Rockets are a young team that got a year better too.

I think the Warriors have a better record, but the Rockets have more potential to go deep into the playoffs ... assuming everyone stays healthy on both teams.

Scoots
07-07-2013, 05:28 PM
The idea that Anderson can make or break a team is scary.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 05:29 PM
Curry/ Lin
Thompson/ Harden
Igodala/ Parsons
Lee/ Montejunas
Bogut/ Howard


Both have a great lineup, it's pretty even to me.

Best players in order IN MY OPINION:

Harden
Curry
Howard
Parsons
Igodala
Lee
Thompson
Bogut
Lin
Montejunas

Assuming health, I think I'd see it as:
Harden/Curry/Howard
Iggy
Lee
Parsons/Asik/Bogut
Thompson/Barnes
Lin

I actually might like the Rockets lineup a little more as is, but I think the Warriors add another solid bench piece that could change that tide.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 05:40 PM
No doubt, i wasnt saying Bogut is better defensively just that with Bogut and the addition of Iguodala the Warriors will be a pretty good defensive team next year.


Howard is better than Curry, and if completely healthy, better than Harden. Parsons is below Iggy and Lee too.

Dwight says he's fully healthy, so if he truly is, he'll go back to being a top-5 player. Big if.

I'd take Chandler Parsons over Lee and Iguodala, honestly. Remember, Chandler is only getting paid $926,500. Let's look at the comparison:

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/chandler-parsons/comparison/13/10/158/108

As you can see they are very comparable, Chandler actually looks like he is the better player at a 10th of the price.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 06:01 PM
I'd take Chandler Parsons over Lee and Iguodala, honestly. Remember, Chandler is only getting paid $926,500. Let's look at the comparison:

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/chandler-parsons/comparison/13/10/158/108

As you can see they are very comparable, Chandler actually looks like he is the better player at a 10th of the price.

Parson's rookie contract aside, he's not a go to scorer like Lee, and he's not a defensive stopper like Iggy. He's an excellent role player and well rounded player, but doesn't have their impact.

One thing to note on the Warriors side, is that completing a sign and trade with Denver rather than acquiring Iggy outright is HUGE for them in signing bench options. It would give both teams 11+ million to work with, and the only reason Denver would be against it would be to hamper GS's development (while simultaneously hampering their own). If a S&T doesn't happen then Denver loses him for nothing and GSW has much more limited options to sign more players in free agency.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 06:29 PM
Who will the Rockets bench scorers be?

Lo Porto
07-07-2013, 06:44 PM
Golden State has absolutely zero depth. People easily forget how important Jack was for that team all year long. He was perfect insurance for Curry and was good enough to run the offense with him. The guy played 30 mpg last year. And Landry is a stud who played half of every game last year.

Iggy strengthened GS for a playoff run since he's so versatile, but GS is not built to compete over 82 games all that well.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 06:48 PM
Golden State has absolutely zero depth. People easily forget how important Jack was for that team all year long. He was perfect insurance for Curry and was good enough to run the offense with him. The guy played 30 mpg last year. And Landry is a stud who played half of every game last year.

Iggy strengthened GS for a playoff run since he's so versatile, but GS is not built to compete over 82 games all that well.
Which is why getting Denver to S&T is so crucial. Their off-season isn't over yet.

As stated, disagree on Jack though. Iggy more than fills his impact. Jermaine ONeal is one option as a backup big to put in 18 mpg and provide extra defense + rebounding. Landry was only getting 20 a night in the playoffs without Lee...

But again, who provides the scoring load on Houston's bench? Who is playing the 4 for them? And how are Harden + Lin going to drive if it's clogged with Centers that have no range or playmaking ability?

Lo Porto
07-07-2013, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=tredigs;26625721]Which is why getting Denver to S&T is so crucial. Their off-season isn't over yet. /[QUOTE]

If GS pulls off a sign and trade with Denver and can add an above average pg, GS has the edge. However, GS can't deal a first until 2019 because they sent Utah their 2014 and 2017. GS also seems to have 0 2nd rounders for the next 3 or 4 years. GS doesn't have anything else that Denver really wants unless they are crazy about Lee but that just makes GS thinner.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 06:55 PM
Parson's rookie contract aside, he's not a go to scorer like Lee, and he's not a defensive stopper like Iggy. He's an excellent role player and well rounded player, but doesn't have their impact.

One thing to note on the Warriors side, is that completing a sign and trade with Denver rather than acquiring Iggy outright is HUGE for them in signing bench options. It would give both teams 11+ million to work with, and the only reason Denver would be against it would be to hamper GS's development (while simultaneously hampering their own). If a S&T doesn't happen then Denver loses him for nothing and GSW has much more limited options to sign more players in free agency.

i have to disagree with you there. His impact on the Rockets is unmistakeable. Go back and look at the stats again:

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/chandler-parsons/comparison/13/10/158/108

It explains the Rockets record under certain circumstances regarding Chandler Parsons.

The problem is you're taking the best of 2 players and finding fault with one. Chandler is more versatile and well rounded than both Iggy and Lee. You can't discount the salaries either. You have to remember the opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is defined as the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

So the salaries of both Lee and Iguodala for next year combined is $25,878,000. Chandler Parsons' contract is $926,500. So that means the Rockets could add players equally $24,951,500. Those extra players included with Chandler Parsons are better than Iggy and David Lee.

James Harden + Asik + Parsons is better than David Lee + Iggy
$22,928,583 in salary ------ vs ------ $25,878,000 in salary

So really the Rockets still have almost $3 million dollars to play with when comparing. Not only that the Rockets have all of their 1st rd draft picks and 6 2nd rd picks over the next 3 drafts. The Warriors have spent a lot of picks to acquire their talent. For this reason the Rockets seem to have a better constructed team given their salaries, assets, and skill sets.

Monta is beast
07-07-2013, 06:56 PM
We have no depth? If we sign Jermaine O'Neal

PG: Curry//Iguodala//Machado
SG: Thompson//Barnes//Bazemore
SF: Iguodala//Barnes//Green
PF: Lee//O'Neal//Green
C: Bogut//O'Neal//Ezeli

Lo Porto
07-07-2013, 07:01 PM
We have no depth? If we sign Jermaine O'Neal

PG: Curry//Iguodala//Machado
SG: Thompson//Barnes//Bazemore
SF: Iguodala//Barnes//Green
PF: Lee//O'Neal//Green
C: Bogut//O'Neal//Ezeli

Yeah, because Jermaine O'Neal is a beast.

Seriously though, Iggy is a good player, but Jack was the PG of that team as much or more than Curry if you really watched their roles in the offense. And Iggy isn't LBJ running offenses like a pg. The guy is just a good passer.

nasthemasta
07-07-2013, 07:05 PM
The Warriors and it isn't even close

Dwight Howard is the most overrated player in basketball, and maybe even sports all together

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 07:07 PM
The Warriors and it isn't even close

Dwight Howard is the most overrated player in basketball, and maybe even sports all together

Any stats to back up that asinine statement?

tredigs
07-07-2013, 07:10 PM
i have to disagree with you there. His impact on the Rockets is unmistakeable. Go back and look at the stats again:

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/chandler-parsons/comparison/13/10/158/108

It explains the Rockets record under certain circumstances regarding Chandler Parsons.

The problem is you're taking the best of 2 players and finding fault with one. Chandler is more versatile and well rounded than both Iggy and Lee. You can't discount the salaries either. You have to remember the opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is defined as the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

So the salaries of both Lee and Iguodala for next year combined is $25,878,000. Chandler Parsons' contract is $926,500. So that means the Rockets could add players equally $24,951,500. Those extra players included with Chandler Parsons are better than Iggy and David Lee.

James Harden + Asik + Parsons is better than David Lee + Iggy
$22,928,583 in salary ------ vs ------ $25,878,000 in salary

So really the Rockets still have almost $3 million dollars to play with when comparing. Not only that the Rockets have all of their 1st rd draft picks and 6 2nd rd picks over the next 3 drafts. The Warriors have spent a lot of picks to acquire their talent. For this reason the Rockets seem to have a better constructed team given their salaries, assets, and skill sets.
No, Iggy provides similar impact offensively and a massive amount more impact defensively. He is far more well rounded. Parsons isn't a great defender by any stretch. The Warriors can offer the Nugs the rights to the foreign player they just signed, cash considerations, and most importantly the flexibility of a mutual trade exception that would allow them another 11+million dollar player in a deal.

And as I see it, assuming a player like Jermaine O'Neal is in fact signed (which is very possible for under 2 mil a year), their depth and team fit is ideal. We can't say the same for the Rockets right now. I'd still like a decent idea as to who will provide Houston's bench scoring and how a Asik + Dwight offense makes any sense with a slashing PG and a SG who loves nothing more than to attack the paint? The ironic thing is that Scola would be a solid fit at the 4 for Houston, too bad he's amnestied.


Yeah, because Jermaine O'Neal is a beast.

Seriously though, Iggy is a good player, but Jack was the PG of that team as much or more than Curry if you really watched their roles in the offense. And Iggy isn't LBJ running offenses like a pg. The guy is just a good passer.

I'd take O'Neal over Landry tbh. He still gets you 18+ mgp and provides very solid rebounding + shot-blocking along with efficient offense.

Lo Porto
07-07-2013, 07:11 PM
The Warriors and it isn't even close

Dwight Howard is the most overrated player in basketball, and maybe even sports all together

How could D12 be more overrated than Andre Iguodala? Warrior fans are acting like they just signed LBJ. They think he's going to be their backup pg, starting sf, guard every other team's best player and cure cancer. Jeez...

tredigs
07-07-2013, 07:21 PM
Any stats to back up that asinine statement?

Well, last season was his worst since he was 20, he's a terrible leader, and he failed to round out his offensive game throughout his career. I.e. he still has no dribbling or playmaking abilities, his jump shot never stretched or improved (hoopdata for stats), and his foul shooting somehow devolved from terrible to a serious ****ing liability at 49% over the past 2 seasons. At a 19.4 PER and .134 WS/48 last year, we may be seeing the early decline of yet another Center who has fallen victim to back surgery. So there is all that.


How could D12 be more overrated than Andre Iguodala? Warrior fans are acting like they just signed LBJ. They think he's going to be their backup pg, starting sf, guard every other team's best player and cure cancer. Jeez...

Only, no Warriors fans think that. Hyperbole is fun though. As for being the playmaker when Curry is off the floor (for 8-10 mpg), starting at SF and guarding the other teams best wing? Well no ****, friend. That's what he does.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 07:26 PM
No, Iggy provides similar impact offensively and a massive amount more impact defensively. He is far more well rounded. Parsons isn't a great defender by any stretch. The Warriors can offer the Nugs the rights to the foreign player they just signed, cash considerations, and most importantly the flexibility of a mutual trade exception that would allow them another 11+million dollar player in a deal.

And as I see it, assuming a player like Jermaine O'Neal is in fact signed (which is very possible for under 2 mil a year), their depth and team fit is ideal. We can't say the same for the Rockets right now. I'd still like a decent idea as to who will provide Houston's bench scoring and how a Asik + Dwight offense makes any sense with a slashing PG and a SG who loves nothing more than to attack the paint? The ironic thing is that Scola would be a solid fit at the 4 for Houston, too bad he's amnestied. I'd take O'Neal over Landry tbh. He still gets you 18+ mgp and provides very solid rebounding + shot-blocking along with efficient offense.

I don't understand how you can look at the stats and say that somehow Iggy is that much of a better player than Parsons. Parsons' EFF is 16.9 Iggy's is 16.0. PArsons Defensive Rating Last Year was 108, Iggy's was 105.

If we are talking about Offensive Chandler Parsons Offensive Win Shares was 4.9, Iggy's was 2.1. That means Parsons' offensive impact was far higher.

Chandler Parsons WS (win share) was 7.50 ; Andre Iguodala WS (win share) was 7.09
Chandler Parsons PER was 15.35 ; Andre Iguodala PER was 15.45

No doubt that Iggy is a better overall defender but let's be real the stats show that they are very similar players and make similar impacts. Iggy makes a ton more money. Parsons is a good, not great defender however his offense is much better than Iggy's.

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Chandler%20Parsons
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Andre%20Iguodala

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iguodan01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parsoch01.html


How could D12 be more overrated than Andre Iguodala? Warrior fans are acting like they just signed LBJ. They think he's going to be their backup pg, starting sf, guard every other team's best player and cure cancer. Jeez...

He is just saying things, he has no stats, facts, or analysis to support his argument. He just wants to troll and hope someone believes him.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 07:34 PM
Well, last season was his worst since he was 20, he's a terrible leader, and he failed to round out his offensive game throughout his career. I.e. he still has no dribbling or playmaking abilities, his jump shot never stretched or improved (hoopdata for stats), and his foul shooting somehow devolved from terrible to a serious ****ing liability at 49% over the past 2 seasons. At a 19.4 PER and .134 WS/48 last year, we may be seeing the early decline of yet another Center who has fallen victim to back surgery. So there is all that.



Only, no Warriors fans think that. Hyperbole is fun though. As for being the playmaker when Curry is off the floor (for 8-10 mpg), starting at SF and guarding the other teams best wing? Well no ****, friend. That's what he does.

Again let's take a look at Dwight Howard last season and just see how good he was.

I mean with a bad back he still averaged 17 points and 12.5 rebounds (which led the league). At his position, he had a WS of 12.31 (#1 in NBA), 22.1 EFF (#2 in NBA), 2.47 block per game (#5 in NBA), and 3.64 DEF (#3 in NBA).

Actually let’s look at more of his ranks at center:

1st in Rebounds
1st in Defensive Rebounds
1st in Free-throws attempts
1st in Free-throws made
1st in Field-goal percentage
3rd in Efficiency
5th in Blocks
5th in Points
5th in Steals

So I mean we will have to see what his health is like next year but if he can do all that with a bad back, imagine how he will be completely healthy.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 07:35 PM
I don't understand how you can look at the stats and say that somehow Iggy is that much of a better player than Parsons. Parsons' EFF is 16.9 Iggy's is 16.0. PArsons Defensive Rating Last Year was 108, Iggy's was 105.

If we are talking about Offensive Chandler Parsons Offensive Win Shares was 4.9, Iggy's was 2.1. That means Parsons' offensive impact was far higher.

Chandler Parsons WS (win share) was 7.5 ; Andre Iguodala WS (win share) was 7.09
Chandler Parsons PER was 15.35 ; Andre Iguodala PER was 15.45

No doubt that Iggy is a better overall defender but let's be real the stats show that they are very similar players and make similar impacts. Iggy makes a ton more money. Parsons is a good, not great defender however his offense is much better than Iggy's.

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Chandler%20Parsons
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Andre%20Iguodala

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iguodan01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parsoch01.html



He is just saying things, he has no stats, facts, or analysis to support his argument. He just wants to troll and hope someone believes him.
You want a stat on Iggy that WinShares and PER fail to appropriately account for? Denver's defense was 16th in efficiency with Iggy on the bench, and 6th with him in the game. That's the defensive impact of an upper tier big. In ISO defense Parson's allowed .78 ppp (127th in the game), Iguodala allowed .58 ppp (11th in the game). Different world. Massive impact versus decent.

Offensively, that was not a good year for him. And I think that (hopefully) changes in Golden State due to the spacing he will be provided alongside the top shooting team in the game (as opposed to Denver and their bottom 5 perimeter shooting). He was a 39% 3pt shooter 2 year ago in his final year in Philly, and I don't think he was a great fit in Denver's scheme. Time will tell though.


Again let's take a look at Dwight Howard last season and just see how good he was.

I mean with a bad back he still averaged 17 points and 12.5 rebounds (which led the league). At his position, he had a WS of 12.31 (#1 in NBA), 22.1 EFF (#2 in NBA), 2.47 block per game (#5 in NBA), and 3.64 DEF (#3 in NBA).

Actually let’s look at more of his ranks at center:

1st in Rebounds
1st in Defensive Rebounds
1st in Free-throws attempts
1st in Free-throws made
1st in Field-goal percentage
3rd in Efficiency
5th in Blocks
5th in Points
5th in Steals

So I mean we will have to see what his health is like next year but if he can do all that with a bad back, imagine how he will be completely healthy.

There's no denying Howard is still a high impact player, I'm simply saying that he's currently a far reach from his prime. And generally massive humans who have back surgery generally see a decline in back health as they age, not improvement. Again, time will tell.

Cali4rnia
07-07-2013, 07:46 PM
David Lee is soft and so is Bogut. They will always be vulnerable in the paint.

Bogut is not soft lol. Just because he is injured doesnt mean he is soft. Playing injured n hurt is two different thing. Pau Gasol is soft he gets punked around by everyone. Blake Griffin has highlight film against pau gasol.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 07:51 PM
You want a stat on Iggy that WinShares and PER fail to appropriately account for? Denver's defense was 16th in efficiency with Iggy on the bench, and 6th with him in the game. That's the defensive impact of an upper tier big. In ISO defense Parson's allowed .78 ppp (127th in the game), Iguodala allowed .58 ppp (11th in the game). Different world. Massive impact versus decent.

Offensively, that was not a good year for him. And I think that (hopefully) changes in Golden State due to the spacing he will be provided alongside the top shooting team in the game (as opposed to Denver and their bottom 5 perimeter shooting). He was a 39% 3pt shooter 2 year ago in his final year in Philly, and I don't think he was a great fit in Denver's scheme. Time will tell though.



There's no denying Howard is still a high impact player, I'm simply saying that he's currently a far reach from his prime. And generally massive humans who have back surgery generally see a decline in back health as they age, not improvement. Again, time will tell.

Yeah but Iguodala is make a ton more ($11 million dollars more). I love Iggy's defense, he's an amazing defender. Parsons defense gets lost because of the pace and style the Rockets have been playing. Parsons is the Rockets best perimeter defender but rarely finds himself in ISO situations, or at least with the defensive sets the Rockets run.

All I am saying is people discount Parsons because he is not flashy, a big name, a 2nd rd pick....there are many reasons that people overlook him. But looking at the stats you'd be amazed at the quality of play he produces. For the Rockets he is perfect because he can shoot, defend, and pass. He does not need the ball in his hands and is a good teammate. It's about Efficiency and Value. In those categories Parsons wins out. Overall, I'd take Parsons over Iggy because I can do more with Parsons on my team than with Iggy.

As far as Howard goes, he came back early from injury (mostly because Kobe is a little ***** and refused to leave him alone to heal properly). I don't think he was fully healthy. Dwight is still only 27 so he is not that old. If he was in his 30's I might agree more with you. I just think Dwight will be a much more tremendous force next year, but don't discount what he did last year with the bad back either.

ldawg
07-07-2013, 08:00 PM
I think Houston is more balance but IMO they need to trade Asik for a PF

Monta is beast
07-07-2013, 08:03 PM
I think the Warriors will win like 54 games, I don't think the Rockets will get to 50.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 08:07 PM
I think the Warriors will win like 54 games, I don't think the Rockets will get to 50.

I'll take that sig bet with you on the Rockets :) (Depending on terms lol)

ldawg
07-07-2013, 08:10 PM
I think Houston is more balance but IMO they need to trade Asik for a PF. Howard will anchor Houston awful defense and will make a great side kick for up and coming Harden. The only way things go sour if Howard start *****ing about post plays and getting the ball late in games knowing the rim dont have enough loose nails. I think he will be fine there however the pressure and expectations is much lower. He can hang and have fun with those guys most being single like himself so they will be closer friends because they will have more in common and he can get his smiling on.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 08:12 PM
I'd take curry/klay/iggy/barnes/lee/bogut over any 6 man rotation the rockets have right now.
Don't forget our core is grown together,we just added an unselfish player/elite defender who won't come and want to get 1 million touches per game.
Dwight is Dwight and we have to see how he will mesh there.


If our bench is filled properly,i think we have the edge,assuming both teams stay healthy.

I have the west like that

Spurs/okc
Okc/spurs
Clippers
Warriors
Houston
Memphis
Denver
Twolves(if they stay healthy)

tredigs
07-07-2013, 08:14 PM
Yeah but Iguodala is make a ton more ($11 million dollars more). I love Iggy's defense, he's an amazing defender. Parsons defense gets lost because of the pace and style the Rockets have been playing. Parsons is the Rockets best perimeter defender but rarely finds himself in ISO situations, or at least with the defensive sets the Rockets run.

All I am saying is people discount Parsons because he is not flashy, a big name, a 2nd rd pick....there are many reasons that people overlook him. But looking at the stats you'd be amazed at the quality of play he produces. For the Rockets he is perfect because he can shoot, defend, and pass. He does not need the ball in his hands and is a good teammate. It's about Efficiency and Value. In those categories Parsons wins out. Overall, I'd take Parsons over Iggy because I can do more with Parsons on my team than with Iggy.

As far as Howard goes, he came back early from injury (mostly because Kobe is a little ***** and refused to leave him alone to heal properly). I don't think he was fully healthy. Dwight is still only 27 so he is not that old. If he was in his 30's I might agree more with you. I just think Dwight will be a much more tremendous force next year, but don't discount what he did last year with the bad back either.

I tend to agree with you on Howard, but back injuries with bigs are definitely a scary proposition. Still obviously worth the risk, though. But Asik + Howard will not work with that team (to the guy calling them more balanced - not feeling it for that reason), so let's see where that leads.

As for comparing a rookie salary (2nd rounder at that) to a seasoned vet, I'm still not seeing eye to eye with you there. By the way you're evaluating him, Parsons is the best player in the NBA. I will absolutely say that bang for your buck he is the best draft steal in the past couple years. By the same token, Lin eating up 15 million in cap space in 2015 is a mess. He's no better than Darren Collison - who just signed for 1.5 mil a year. And Barnes + Thompson for 6 mil combined this year (and signed through 2016/17) is definitely a treat.

Long story short, we won't even have great educated guesses for this debate until after July. But it's still fun.

^Warriors@GR brings up a good point on both synergy and growth, also. I think the Warriors will see more of both. And also agree that our top 6 (aka 95% of how productive your team will be in the playoffs) are better.

Monta is beast
07-07-2013, 08:18 PM
When we play the Thunder in the Western Conference Finals.

Curry vs Westbrook
Thompson vs Sefolosha
Iguodala vs Durant
Lee vs Ibaka
Bogut vs Perkins

Barnes vs Collison

I like the matchups for the Warriors.

WhiteSoxGod
07-07-2013, 08:20 PM
I tend to agree with you on Howard, but back injuries with bigs are definitely a scary proposition. Still obviously worth the risk, though. But Asik + Howard will not work with that team (to the guy calling them more balanced - not feeling it for that reason), so let's see where that leads.

As for comparing a rookie salary (2nd rounder at that) to a seasoned vet, I'm still not seeing eye to eye with you there. By the way you're evaluating him, Parsons is the best player in the NBA. I will absolutely say that bang for your buck he is the best draft steal in the past couple years. By the same token, Lin eating up 15 million in cap space in 2015 is a mess. He's no better than Darren Collison - who just signed for 1.5 mil a year. And Barnes + Thompson for 6 mil combined this year (and signed through 2016/17) is definitely a treat.

Long story short, we won't even have great educated guesses for this debate until after July. But it's still fun.

^Warriors@GR brings up a good point on both synergy and growth, also. I think the Warriors will see more of both. And also agree that our top 6 (aka 95% of how productive your team will be in the playoffs) are better.

Lin's cap hit is only $8.3 million though, not $15 million.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 08:28 PM
When we play the Thunder in the Western Conference Finals.

Curry vs Westbrook
Thompson vs Sefolosha
Iguodala vs Durant
Lee vs Ibaka
Bogut vs Perkins

Barnes vs Collison

I like the matchups for the Warriors.Curry will get killed by Westbrook.Too much energy needed to guard him.klay on westbrook and curry on sefolosha is ok.

ldawg
07-07-2013, 08:31 PM
I tend to agree with you on Howard, but back injuries with bigs are definitely a scary proposition. Still obviously worth the risk, though. But Asik + Howard will not work with that team (to the guy calling them more balanced - not feeling it for that reason), so let's see where that leads.

As for comparing a rookie salary (2nd rounder at that) to a seasoned vet, I'm still not seeing eye to eye with you there. By the way you're evaluating him, Parsons is the best player in the NBA. I will absolutely say that bang for your buck he is the best draft steal in the past couple years. By the same token, Lin eating up 15 million in cap space in 2015 is a mess. He's no better than Darren Collison - who just signed for 1.5 mil a year. And Barnes + Thompson for 6 mil combined this year (and signed through 2016/17) is definitely a treat.

Long story short, we won't even have great educated guesses for this debate until after July. But it's still fun.

^Warriors@GR brings up a good point on both synergy and growth, also. I think the Warriors will see more of both. And also agree that our top 6 (aka 95% of how productive your team will be in the playoffs) are better.That is why i said they need to find a pf for Asik. The thing with GS is health with Curry and Bogart but they are not bad either. I dont picture either team in the Finals as is. Thing is Howard is an advantage at center and harden is a legit 25ppg player that is great at getting to the rim. something of that Shaq and Kobe era just not as good and dont have solid role players. If they slow the game and try to post Howard advantage GS however if Howard goes in and try not to disrupt what they have going and just let Harden do his thing and look for the ally hoop and work the pick and role advantage Houston. It all depends on which Howard they get.

BKLYNpigeon
07-07-2013, 08:39 PM
Rockets still need a PG.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 08:39 PM
Curry will get killed by Westbrook.Too much energy needed to guard him.klay on westbrook and curry on sefolosha is ok.

Meh, you can slack on Westbrook and let him shoot, which is nice. Really neither of these two can guard the other and Curry always rips him offensively, but yeah I bet it would be more of Klay on Westbrook.

Lin's cap hit is only $8.3 million though, not $15 million.
That's right I forgot they tailored it like that. Still bad for a player who somehow managed a negative PER + WinShares in the playoffs and generally exposed as a poor shooter last year, but not as terrible.

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 09:35 PM
Warriors fans pick arriors, Rockets fans pick Rockets

How do the neutral fans feel? I think I've seen more Warriors votes from non fans. I can't wait till Harsen proves them wrong. Yes Harden.

Btw to the poster who says rockets wont make it to 50 wins, you honestly don't thinking adding the best center in the league, giving our superstar Harden an actual offseason to mesh with the team, and having a year older Parsons and Lin is not going to improve this team by 5 wins, then you have no knowledge of basketball. Sorry.

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 09:39 PM
Btw the Warrioronly two games more than the Rockets, why is everyone acting like they were so much better than the Rockets last year? The Rockets won the series 2-1 or 3-1 I can't remember.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 09:48 PM
.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 09:48 PM
Btw the Warrioronly two games more than the Rockets, why is everyone acting like they were so much better than the Rockets last year? The Rockets won the series 2-1 or 3-1 I can't remember.season series?go look at the heat-knicks or clippers-grizzlies season series.they mean ****.

Warriors proved in the playoffs they were superior.
Took down Denver without HCA and gave the spurs the best fight in the west,and if we did not lose the 1st game stupidly,we could go even further.
Not to mention all these happened with our 2nd best player out injured,and Curry also hurt for a few games.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 09:52 PM
Btw the Warrioronly two games more than the Rockets, why is everyone acting like they were so much better than the Rockets last year? The Rockets won the series 2-1 or 3-1 I can't remember.

Who said GS was so much better? Although much more important than those 2 games in the regular season is the 6 they won in the post-season, without their All Star at that. The Rockets not being able to take care of OKC without Westbrook was pretty underwhelming. And GSW matches up much better with them going forward.

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 10:03 PM
Superior? The warriors would not get past the Thunder even without Westbrook last season. They played a less difficult opponent in the playoffs, still difficult I said less difficult. Also every single game in the Thinder Rockets series could have gone either way with the exception of the first one being a blowout. Warriors fans are really being homers here.

Btw I chose the Warriors, it's the reasoning behind y'all's arguments I don't get. If Howard plays like he did in Orlando, the Rockets are way better. I chose the Warriors cause I considered the Howard of last year.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 10:04 PM
Who said GS was so much better? Although much more important than those 2 games in the regular season is the 6 they won in the post-season, without their All Star at that. The Rockets not being able to take care of OKC without Westbrook was pretty underwhelming. And GSW matches up much better with them going forward.
Off-topic question,but i always wanted to ask.why is everybody saying 'they' when talking about their teams?i guess it's a US thing,because here in Europe it's 'we' men.it's our team.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 10:06 PM
Superior? The warriors would not get past the Thunder even without Westbrook last season.
Proof?Okc was terrible without Westbrook.

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 10:08 PM
Gallanari was out btw, it's not like Denver was 100%

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 10:09 PM
Proof?Okc was terrible without Westbrook.

A team in the west does not get the Number 1 seed because of one player. They were still an elite team, the matchup against Memphis was just not in OKC favor.

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 10:10 PM
Off-topic question,but i always wanted to ask.why is everybody saying 'they' when talking about their teams?i guess it's a US thing,because here in Europe it's 'we' men.it's our team.

Because we don't play for the Rockets or Warriors, but I do find myself saying we sometimes.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 10:10 PM
Gallanari was out btw, it's not like Denver was 100%
Point is that we proved we are a legit playoff team.The Rockets did not.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 10:13 PM
Superior? The warriors would not get past the Thunder even without Westbrook last season. They played a less difficult opponent in the playoffs, still difficult I said less difficult. Also every single game in the Thinder Rockets series could have gone either way with the exception of the first one being a blowout. Warriors fans are really being homers here.

Btw I chose the Warriors, it's the reasoning behind y'all's arguments I don't get. If Howard plays like he did in Orlando, the Rockets are way better. I chose the Warriors cause I considered the Howard of last year.


Well, that's your opinion. I think the 57 win Nuggets at full health were definitely better than a 60 win OKC team that did not have their All NBA point guard. I absolutely think GS would have beaten them. Especially considering they took SAS to 6 (probably should have been 7), while San Antonio abused the team that abused OKC in the next round (Memphis).

I picked the Warriors because Asik + Howard do not work, they have no bench scoring, and because Lin sucks. But both teams are likely incomplete in player movement, and both are in great positions to succeed. It's close.


Off-topic question,but i always wanted to ask.why is everybody saying 'they' when talking about their teams?i guess it's a US thing,because here in Europe it's 'we' men.it's our team.

Yeah - I use both without much thought behind it, sometimes in the same paragraph. In the Warriors forum I'd probably be more likely to use 'we'.

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 10:13 PM
Point is that we proved we are a legit playoff team.The Rockets did not.

I'm sure the Rockets proved that as well. Falling to the Number 1 seed is not something bad. Especially when entering the season they were considers a bottom 3 team. And once in the playoffs a swept team with Blowouuts in all four games.

ThaDubs
07-07-2013, 10:13 PM
Houston by 15+ games

You literally only posted this because you don't like me :facepalm:

rockets-fan
07-07-2013, 10:15 PM
Well, that's your opinion. I think the 57 win Nuggets at full health were definitely better than a 60 win OKC team that did not have their All NBA point guard. I absolutely think GS would have beaten them. Especially considering they took SAS to 6 (probably should have been 7), while San Antonio abused the team that abused OKC in the next round (Memphis).

I picked the Warriors because Asik + Howard do not work, they have no bench scoring, and because Lin sucks. But both teams are likely incomplete in player movement, and both are in great positions to succeed. It's close.



Yeah - I use both without much thought behind it, sometimes in the same paragraph. In the Warriors forum I'd probably be more likely to use 'we'.


The Nuggets were not at full health, I thought Gallo was out. Could be wrong tho. And it's a game of Matchups, just because the Spurs killed Memphis does not mean they would have done the same to OKC. Memphis matched up great against OKC, OKC matches up better agains SA. End the end it's all an opinion, we will see next season

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 10:15 PM
Because we don't play for the Rockets or Warriors, but I do find myself saying we sometimes.The fans are a huge part of the team and part of the game(especially over here).

tredigs
07-07-2013, 10:17 PM
Gallanari was out btw, it's not like Denver was 100%

True, forgot about him. Though they did close out the season 6-1 without him and he was nowhere near the impact player Westbrook was.


A team in the west does not get the Number 1 seed because of one player. They were still an elite team, the matchup against Memphis was just not in OKC favor.

To lose him at the time that they did was a massive loss for the team dynamic.


The Nuggets were not at full health, I thought Gallo was out. Could be wrong tho. And it's a game of Matchups, just because the Spurs killed Memphis does not mean they would have done the same to OKC. Memphis matched up great against OKC, OKC matches up better agains SA. End the end it's all an opinion, we will see next season
It's a game of matchups to an extent, but when the divide is as clear as that was, it goes beyond matchups.

JordansBulls
07-07-2013, 10:18 PM
Rockets won 45 games last year and now you adding Dwight to the squad for free. So that is at least another 10 wins easily if not 15 wins.

WARRIORS@GR
07-07-2013, 10:21 PM
Rockets won 45 games last year and now you adding Dwight to the squad for free. So that is at least another 10 wins easily if not 15 wins.
How did that work for the Lakers?
It's not so simple man,come on.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 10:25 PM
Rockets won 45 games last year and now you adding Dwight to the squad for free. So that is at least another 10 wins easily if not 15 wins.

For what it's worth, Asik had 5.5 total win shares last season, Dwight 7.6. And they will eat into each others minutes. Plus, we don't know if Dwight's back will get better or worse.

If they end up trading Asik for a solid PF and get some bench scoring we can start talking 10+ game upgrades.

Lo Porto
07-07-2013, 10:43 PM
As for being the playmaker when Curry is off the floor (for 8-10 mpg),...

Jack played 30 mpg last year. He ran the offense as much or more than Curry. Iggy can't do that.

Scoots
07-07-2013, 10:51 PM
I don't discount Jack's impact, but he didn't run the offense anywhere nearly as much as Curry. When Curry was off the floor the offense stagnated and often ended up being Jack pounding the ball and shooting as the clock wound down. Jack was good enough to make a lot of those shots, and he was important guarding opposing PGs, but Curry ran the offense a lot more than Jack and much better too.

If you are comparing players by their stats to determine who is the better player salaries are irrelevant, and overall Iggy, right now, is a better player than Parsons. Parsons is a far better deal though and he's still improving.

tredigs
07-07-2013, 11:17 PM
Jack played 30 mpg last year. He ran the offense as much or more than Curry. Iggy can't do that.

I don't know where this hilarious Jarret Jack hyperbole that I've been seeing on here is coming from, but it's definitely not from Warriors fans or reality.

I am thrilled that Curry will be taking over more of the offense (of which he already clearly had the Lions share) and that Iggy will be the head facilitator along side him. Jack's selfishness was terrible for an offense.

CluTcH_c1tY
07-07-2013, 11:59 PM
I think the Warriors will win like 54 games, I don't think the Rockets will get to 50.

Warriors won't win 54 games, they win 48-50 games, and be the 6th seed again. I like your optimism but i think your setting the bar a little to high. Warriors will miss Jack and Landry, but i do like the Iguodala signing nonetheless.

tredigs
07-08-2013, 12:10 AM
In a year where I think multiple teams will be tanking, and the West still incredibly potent, it could definitely take 50 wins to get an 8 seed over here. I'm saying the Warriors go 52-30. +/- 7.

ThaDubs
07-08-2013, 05:19 AM
The Nuggets were not at full health, I thought Gallo was out. Could be wrong tho. And it's a game of Matchups, just because the Spurs killed Memphis does not mean they would have done the same to OKC. Memphis matched up great against OKC, OKC matches up better agains SA. End the end it's all an opinion, we will see next season

And incase you forgot we missed David Lee for almost the whole playoffs besides maybe 15 minutes of him playing.

RollingWave
07-08-2013, 05:35 AM
It's going to come down to health and how teams figure out their new players obviously. I'd generally lean towards Rockets but either way wouldn't shock me.

A lot of it depend on things like... is Dwight going to recover more or is this Dwight the one we're going to get going forward? who'll improve more? Parsons / Lin / rockets PF or Thompson / Barnes ? Thompson Barnes looked a lot better in the playoffs than they did in the regular season while Lin looked vastly worse, is this actually a thing to come or is this just random small sample size coupled with some injury luck?

I like the Rockets chances more because I figure Howard has a better chance of going up while Curry would be lucky if he remains at the same health. and also generally because there are more players on the Rockets that could conceivably improve than the Warriors. but it's obviously not something set in stone, coaching, developing, how player generally gell, etc.. will all be a huge factor.

(should generally note though, the Rocket's point differential was significantly better than the Warriors last year, but they were also among the healthiest team. though the Rockets also took the series against the Dubs in convincing fashion but the final meeting was a Warrior blowout. so who knows.)


If I were a betting man I'd go Houston if only because even in an unhealthy season Dwight still played 70+ games, Bogut and Curry are significantly greater health risk than anyone on the Rockets.

JasonJohnHorn
07-08-2013, 08:15 AM
That Warriors would have, in all likelihood, been in the NBA finals this past season had Lee been healthy. There is a very real chance they could have beaten the Spurs with him. A healthy Lee and Iggy added to their post season roster, with the loss of Martin to OKC, and the Warriors are legit contenders for the Western Conference championship. LAC and GSW are my top two picks at this point with OKC, SAS and HOU as legit options as well.

Houston was a healthy roster going into the playoffs and were knocked out in the first round. Goldenstate was depleted by injury and still earned a couple wins against the Spurs... add two all-star calibre players to that run (Iggy and Lee) and that team could very easily be in the finals. Houston is adding one all-star and that guy is going to demand the ball in the post more often than he should and I believe that is McHale cowtows to Dwight, it will hurt the team. If he doesn't Dwight will demand a trade.... again.

Crab Dribble!
07-08-2013, 11:32 AM
It depends on each team's bench. I'm not sure what Houston's doing on that front, but since the Warriors will be turning the Iggy deal into a three way sign and trade, they keep the other trade exception they got from Utah (1 for Biedrins, 1 for RJeff) and get the MLE to use as well. So they can both sign and trade for some talent to fill out their bench... this makes them fairly flexible, but we won't really know just what sort of team they'll be until the first trade goes through and they acquire some more backups.

Stinkyoutsider
07-08-2013, 12:10 PM
I give the slight edge to the Rockets if a fully healed and motivated Dwight Howard comes into camp...

Both teams are looking to do lots of damage next year. The Warriors have gotten themselves a top quality wing defender in Iggy. The best thing about him is that he scores in the flow of the offense so no plays need to be run for him. If Curry and Thompson learn to play the pick and roll with each other, I see that as an unstoppable combo. Can't cheat on the screen with either one of those guys because they both can fill it up from the outside and Curry is starting to become dangerous when going to the basket.

I think Howard will have a big comeback season this year and Harden speaks for himself. But, I think it's going to be the role players who have the real say on whether the Rockets will be better.

todu82
07-08-2013, 12:40 PM
Houston.

nasthemasta
07-08-2013, 01:07 PM
Any stats to back up that asinine statement?

Just because somebody is overrated doesn't make him a bad player. Anybody who watched Dwight play last year knows that his "free agent decision" isn't worth hour long segments and constant updates from sportscenter. He's a declining big man in the NBA who is still a good piece to a team, but no way in hell a max contract player anymore. The guy has a bad back, noticeably didn't fly around the court like he did in Orlando. The guy has a bad shoulder and can't make free throws, you think that defenders aren't going to hack him on the way up for a lay-up anymore? You think that last year was a one year thing? Teams figured him out, you hack him and send him to the line, and let him get frustrated and start crying all over the court. D12 is no Shaq, and I think it's actually sad that a team as prestigious as the Lakers would beg a player like Dwight Howard to stay

WhiteSoxGod
07-08-2013, 01:40 PM
Just because somebody is overrated doesn't make him a bad player. Anybody who watched Dwight play last year knows that his "free agent decision" isn't worth hour long segments and constant updates from sportscenter. He's a declining big man in the NBA who is still a good piece to a team, but no way in hell a max contract player anymore. The guy has a bad back, noticeably didn't fly around the court like he did in Orlando. The guy has a bad shoulder and can't make free throws, you think that defenders aren't going to hack him on the way up for a lay-up anymore? You think that last year was a one year thing? Teams figured him out, you hack him and send him to the line, and let him get frustrated and start crying all over the court. D12 is no Shaq, and I think it's actually sad that a team as prestigious as the Lakers would beg a player like Dwight Howard to stay

Well looking at the stats no team has figured Dwight Howard out. His stats last year made him the bnest center in the NBA and he was not healthy. After the all-star break his stats were even better:


Dwight Howard - Per Game
Pre All-Star 16.3 PPG -- 11.8 RPG -- 1.5 APG -- 2.3 BPG
Post All-Star 15.5 PPG -- 14.8 RPG -- 0.8 APG -- 2.6 BPG

You can see a difference in Howard's play. He has been more active on the defensive end and on the glass, and has been better in pick and rolls on the offensive end.


Dwight Howard - Rebounding
Pre All-Star OREB%: 10.8% -- DREB%: 26.5% -- REB%: 18.9%
Post All-Star OREB%: 12.5% -- DREB%: 32.1% -- REB%: 22.6%

The increase in Howard's rebounding numbers are not just based on per-game stats, which can vary based on opponent and pace of the game. If you look at Howard's rebounding percentage, he has increased the amount of available rebounds he has grabbed on both the offensive and defensive end since the All-Star break.


Dwight Howard - Advanced
Pre All-Star OffRtg: 104.0 -- DefRtg: 102.1 -- NetRtg: +1.9 -- USG%: 22.1% -- [+/- (per game)]: +35 (0.7)
Post All-Star OffRtg: 113.0 -- DefRtg: 98.7 -- NetRtg +14.3 -- USG%: 21.4% -- [+/- (per game)]: +88 (8.8)

Here you'll see that Howard's usage rate has dipped slightly -- a pair of 40+ point performances from Kobe likely contributed to that -- but his on-court plus/minus has increased dramatically. The same goes for Howard's on-court offensive and defensive efficiency -- up 9.0 points per 100 possession on offense and giving up 3.4 fewer points per 100 possessions on defense.

slashsnake
07-08-2013, 01:58 PM
Tough call on the original thread question, but I think I would go with Houston.

The Warriors did look fun at the end of last season, but they were 2 wins from being the 8th seed last year. It is one year and it relied on Curry's ankle. Even with Iguodala, are they on the level of the spurs, Thunder, Clippers, or Grizzlies? Maybe if they keep taking steps forward. I'd just want to see more than one season and one playoff upset round to say they are on the right track with the guys they have.

TrueFan420
07-08-2013, 02:10 PM
Tough call on the original thread question, but I think I would go with Houston.

The Warriors did look fun at the end of last season, but they were 2 wins from being the 8th seed last year. It is one year and it relied on Curry's ankle. Even with Iguodala, are they on the level of the spurs, Thunder, Clippers, or Grizzlies? Maybe if they keep taking steps forward. I'd just want to see more than one season and one playoff upset round to say they are on the right track with the guys they have.
Those are legit questions. However, the same applies to Houston.

lol, please
07-08-2013, 02:53 PM
Dubs will finish with a better record, a higher seeding, and go farther in the playoffs, and this forum will be littered with how the Rockets still couldn't do it with Howard. :laugh2: Heard it here first folks. Save this golden post, it will be well fermented when it all goes down.

iGorANDley
07-08-2013, 03:07 PM
i think the Goldenstate will be better next season. lakers fan here

STL Don
07-08-2013, 04:17 PM
I believe the Warriors are ready to become a power house in the West after what they were able to accomplish last season and also proved to everyone just how dangerous they can be in that San Antonio series, giving them a run for their money. No other team in the West gave them that much trouble.
Now hypothetically speaking, lets say everyone is healthy and GS avoids the injury bug next season.. Which means a healthy David Lee, who's very underrated. One of the better power forwards in the game, playing alongside Andrew Bogut for an entire season. there's not too my front courts in the league that could matchup with this duo.
They also got rid of some of the waste (richard jefferson, andris biedrins) on this team to make room for a huge splash in the free agent market, ala, Andre Iguodala. His presence will be irreplaceable. They knew they were missing something so they finished up some dirty work, went out and grabbed one of the better wing players in this league. He's freakishly athletic, an elite defender and can get to the rim and finish on fast breaks like no other.
Steph Curry, Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes are only going to get better. Curry and Thompson are already among the better players at their position and after a promising rookie season, its a safe bet to think Barnes will follow in their footsteps as well. He has enormous potential.
Enough cannot be said about Steph Curry, though. He's the reason this team could REALLY be special. This kid is a phenomenal basketball player and its scary to think this kid had yet to reach his prime. If he also, can avoid the injury bug, watch out. Because this kid is a dominant player.

With that said, i feel the Rockets have questions that need to be answered, starting with Jeremy Lin. Will he be traded? Do they believe Patrick Beverly Is the answer? If not, can Lin and Harden learn to coexist in the backcourt or will there be problems? Another issue is, what are they going to do with Asik now that he is unhappy? I think he deserves to be traded to a team that wants him to START.. Last year he clearly esrned that title and his contract is not bad at all.
Nonetheless, i do not think Houston is better than GS, by any means.

2-ONE-5
07-08-2013, 04:35 PM
slight edge to GSW. They have more talent all the way through i think.

1. OKC
2. LAC
3. GSW
4. HOU