PDA

View Full Version : Pistons have made offer for Gay



spreadeagle
07-03-2013, 12:26 AM
I would want Knight or pass, include Lowry even somehow
According to reports the Detroit Pistons have offered the expiring contracts of Charlie Villanueva and Rodney Stuckey to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for Rudy Gay.

Should the Raps accept the trade and dig in for Wiggins, or stand pat with Rudy?
http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/1227400-report-pistons-offer-villanueva-and-stuckey-for-gay

Deezy3
07-03-2013, 12:42 AM
Very interesting. I'd still be surprised to see them trade Rudy Gay though. After the midseason trade, they seemed extremely excited to move forward with Rudy. Ya never know though!

pacman16
07-03-2013, 12:42 AM
make it happen!!!!
rebuild this team properly for once....

kobe4thewinbang
07-03-2013, 01:05 AM
I think Rudy Gay is worth more than that.

Jtirado16
07-03-2013, 01:07 AM
Raptors will take this because they are tanking!. Good Pickup for the Pistons though. I've always liked his game

BHF
07-03-2013, 01:09 AM
no way raptors take this if there are no picks

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 01:17 AM
TOR gets: G Brandon Knight, expiring deals of Stuckey and Villanueva
DET gets: F Rudy Gay

That would put DET's team salary at about 32.3 million. Sign Josh Smith to a deal starting at 12 million per, bringing team salary up to 44.3 million. He takes a little less because he gets to play with his close friend...

DET gets: G Rajon Rondo
BOS gets: C Greg Monroe, F Jonas Jerebko

This trade results in a net gain of about 3.4 million in salary for DET. That brings their total to 47.7 million. I don't know the exact cap but I'll use 56 mil as an estimate. DET would have 8.3 mil in cap space left. That's enough to land O.J. Mayo.

Rondo
Mayo
Gay
Smith
Drummond

IAmARanger18
07-03-2013, 01:18 AM
What a terrible offer

RipCity32
07-03-2013, 01:19 AM
TOR gets: G Brandon Knight, expiring deals of Stuckey and Villanueva
DET gets: F Rudy Gay

That would put DET's team salary at about 32.3 million. Sign Josh Smith to a deal starting at 12 million per, bringing team salary up to 44.3 million. He takes a little less because he gets to play with his close friend...

DET gets: G Rajon Rondo
BOS gets: C Greg Monroe, F Jonas Jerebko

This trade results in a net gain of about 3.4 million in salary for DET. That brings their total to 47.7 million. I don't know the exact cap but I'll use 56 mil as an estimate. DET would have 8.3 mil in cap space left. That's enough to land O.J. Mayo.

Rondo
Mayo
Gay
Smith
Drummond

I like it except for the OJ Mayo part.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 01:26 AM
I like it except for the OJ Mayo part.

Understandable. I didn't think he was the best fit there but he's the only starting SG I can think of left on the market for that money. Any other player you had in mind? BOS could send Courtney Lee back in the Rondo deal if you guys like him. I think he'd be a good fit in that lineup in place of Mayo. The reason I didn't include him is because I wonder how DET would feel about his contract. It isn't unreasonable salary wise (only ~ 5.4 per year) but it goes for 3 more seasons. Like I said though, he could be a good "3 and D" SG in that lineup. Or DET could keep the cap space and try for someone else in FA.

mike_noodles
07-03-2013, 01:29 AM
TOR gets: G Brandon Knight, expiring deals of Stuckey and Villanueva
DET gets: F Rudy Gay

That would put DET's team salary at about 32.3 million. Sign Josh Smith to a deal starting at 12 million per, bringing team salary up to 44.3 million. He takes a little less because he gets to play with his close friend...

DET gets: G Rajon Rondo
BOS gets: C Greg Monroe, F Jonas Jerebko

This trade results in a net gain of about 3.4 million in salary for DET. That brings their total to 47.7 million. I don't know the exact cap but I'll use 56 mil as an estimate. DET would have 8.3 mil in cap space left. That's enough to land O.J. Mayo.

Rondo
Mayo
Gay
Smith
Drummond

And zero spacing on the floor for Detroit, but that's not my problem. Wouldn't be surprised to see Detroit begin fishing for a draft pick to be able to move to us as part of the deal, I wouldn't move Gay without one.

akesh99
07-03-2013, 01:30 AM
If the Raps are gonna deal Gay to the Pistons and they're hesitant to give up Knight, Monroe or Drummond (which they will be) I'd say it would have to be at least Stuckey + S&T Maxiell + Singler for Rudy and Camby's contract. I still don't see that as fair value for Rudy but at least Stucky is an expiring and Maxiell and Singler can be useful rotation players. With Masai at the helm though, I'm confident we should be able to acquire a future first rounder and/or unload Fields/Kleiza as well

Bigbadmoffo
07-03-2013, 01:30 AM
I would if they add a 1st pick. If not it makes no sense.

RipCity32
07-03-2013, 01:31 AM
Understandable. I didn't think he was the best fit there but he's the only starting SG I can think of left on the market for that money. Any other player you had in mind? BOS could send Courtney Lee back in the Rondo deal if you guys like him. I think he'd be a good fit in that lineup in place of Mayo. The reason I didn't include him is because I wonder how DET would feel about his contract. It isn't unreasonable salary wise (only ~ 5.4 per year) but it goes for 3 more seasons. Like I said though, he could be a good "3 and D" SG in that lineup. Or DET could keep the cap space and try for someone else in FA.

I would rather just see what KCP is capable of doing in a starting line up like that.

RipCity32
07-03-2013, 01:34 AM
If Boston is entertaining offers from Detroit about Rondo than why not do some sort of 3 way trade to make everything more fair and enticing for everyone.Because to me even Monroe for Rondo straight up is scary right now with Rondo having a ACL injury.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 01:38 AM
I would rather just see what KCP is capable of doing in a starting line up like that.

Oh **** yeah I forgot you guys drafted him. I think he would be a great fit for that lineup even as a rookie. That 8 or so mil in cap space could go towards adding to the bench which would only have Singler as a piece after these moves.

The BOS trade could be altered to where BOS doesn't take Jerebko back if you guys like him at his 4.5 mil price tag. Or we could include either Courtney Lee or Brandon Bass on their MLE type contracts. Or the deal could stay as is where BOS keeps both and takes Jerebko's money. It's DET's choice.

Derick713
07-03-2013, 01:45 AM
It makes sense for the Raptors to go all in for Andrew Wiggins. The Raptors have a good core with Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, and Valanciunas. If the Raptors stayed pat they probably would have been were the Hawks where these last couple of seasons. All the Raptors were missing was a PF.

lol, please
07-03-2013, 02:07 AM
kinky.

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 02:56 AM
pistons can gtfo cus if there are no picks involved, you're delusitional. If you think bargnani was only good for getting expirings or nothing, you're wrong! Masai Ujiri got PICKS, FIRST ROUND PICK. Rudy Gay would net at least a young player + a pick. Monroe or drummond + a pick or gtfo, we'll trade hiim to NO or something.

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 02:58 AM
if any pistons fans defend the trade with expirings and presume the raptors are tanking, you should really reconsider your logic. Rudy gay's contract is only 2 more years long, it aint even a burden.

TorontoHuskies
07-03-2013, 03:18 AM
I love the idea of unloading gay and tanking but the Pistons can go **** themselves if there isn't an unprotected 1st round pick included in that trade.

We_need_players
07-03-2013, 03:33 AM
You can have our 2019 First round pick, Unprotected. It's the only pick we can trade within the next 6 years.

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 03:44 AM
Then Good Day to you sir ^

TorontoHuskies
07-03-2013, 03:45 AM
ujiri should wait until igoudala has signed somewhere then Gay's value will go up because teams will get desperate.

TorontoHuskies
07-03-2013, 03:48 AM
Then Good Day to you sir ^

Yea I don't see the pistons getting him....Wonder if the Cavs would trade Thompson for him, they need a better SF and bennett would probably be best at PF.

Bigbadmoffo
07-03-2013, 04:35 AM
Cavs 1st round pick unprotected and crappy players for gay.

Bigbadmoffo
07-03-2013, 04:36 AM
and he expires in time for Lebron??? Perfect match!!

Gators123
07-03-2013, 06:45 AM
pistons can gtfo cus if there are no picks involved, you're delusitional. If you think bargnani was only good for getting expirings or nothing, you're wrong! Masai Ujiri got PICKS, FIRST ROUND PICK. Rudy Gay would net at least a young player + a pick. Monroe or drummond + a pick or gtfo, we'll trade hiim to NO or something.

:laugh2:

We_need_players
07-03-2013, 08:23 AM
Then Good Day to you sir ^

You obviously just don't understand, Canadians :rolleyes:

G-Menn!
07-03-2013, 08:40 AM
You know what they say.. You have to be a little gay, to get to the other side of the rainbow..
Nohomo

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 11:40 AM
To people saying " oh yeah what more can you get" , " yeah right you're not getting drummond/monroe or a pick" or people saying toronto is stupid and may just take the deal with knight included, your ignorance is annoying. I'm glad Masai Ujiri isn't a fool. Read these tweets so you will be educated not to post something biased :


As I speculated earlier, told Raptors immediately said good job, good effort to low-ball Gay offer from Det No plans to move him for nothing

https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/352422362488123392



@WolstatSun @ekoreen What if the Pistons threw in Kravtsov or Jerebko? Jerebko and Kravstov's PT will suffer with Gay and MCP.

@DetroitKoolAid Cap space doesn't mean much in Toronto and Gay is best player on team.


Just because a platter is offered, doesn't mean it needs to be eaten. Several teams have offered unimpressive packages for Rudy Gay


https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/352389671071911936

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 11:41 AM
:laugh2:


You obviously just don't understand, Canadians :rolleyes:

We'll I'm glad our GM does,


As I speculated earlier, told Raptors immediately said good job, good effort to low-ball Gay offer from Det No plans to move him for nothing

https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/352422362488123392



@WolstatSun @ekoreen What if the Pistons threw in Kravtsov or Jerebko? Jerebko and Kravstov's PT will suffer with Gay and MCP.

@DetroitKoolAid Cap space doesn't mean much in Toronto and Gay is best player on team.


Just because a platter is offered, doesn't mean it needs to be eaten. Several teams have offered unimpressive packages for Rudy Gay


https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/352389671071911936

LeperMessiah
07-03-2013, 11:46 AM
Bad contract or not, he has value.

0nekhmer
07-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Lol. With the recent offer to Andre iguodala, I'm sure many teams wouldn't mind rudys 2 years 20+ mil contact. if bargnani netted 3 picks + scrubs with that contract, you can't expect nothing less than a lotto pick + scrubs for gay.

kenzo400
07-03-2013, 12:32 PM
No Stuckey or Knight. Both are undersized inefficient chuckers and neither can actually play the point. Pass...

The proposed deal is ridicilous. Why not just trade him to the West and get the same thing? Why would the Raptors want to make Detroit a better team?

Gators123
07-03-2013, 12:37 PM
We'll I'm glad our GM does,



https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/352422362488123392




https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/352389671071911936

Thats doesn't mean hes worth Monroe or Drummond. Not even close.




Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Andre Drummond 2012-13 19 60 1243 21.6 .578 .610 15.4 27.2 21.2 4.1 2.5 6.1 12.2 17.2 114 99 2.2 2.3 4.5 .172
2 Greg Monroe 2012-13 22 81 2687 19.5 .527 .486 9.9 23.6 16.7 18.6 2.1 1.6 16.0 24.8 104 105 2.7 3.2 5.9 .105
3 Rudy Gay 2012-13 26 75 2687 15.6 .494 .449 4.3 16.3 10.2 13.6 2.3 1.6 12.5 27.2 98 102 0.1 3.9 4.0 .072

Young bigs on rookie contracts that produced like that ^ for an inefficient SF thats still owed $36 million? Get real.

kenzo400
07-03-2013, 12:47 PM
Thats doesn't mean hes worth Monroe or Drummond. Not even close.




Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Andre Drummond 2012-13 19 60 1243 21.6 .578 .610 15.4 27.2 21.2 4.1 2.5 6.1 12.2 17.2 114 99 2.2 2.3 4.5 .172
2 Greg Monroe 2012-13 22 81 2687 19.5 .527 .486 9.9 23.6 16.7 18.6 2.1 1.6 16.0 24.8 104 105 2.7 3.2 5.9 .105
3 Rudy Gay 2012-13 26 75 2687 15.6 .494 .449 4.3 16.3 10.2 13.6 2.3 1.6 12.5 27.2 98 102 0.1 3.9 4.0 .072

Young bigs on rookie contracts that produced like that ^ for an inefficient SF thats still owed $36 million? Get real.

The problem is that you have nothing else on your roster. I would suggest getting rid of Stuckey and Knight for nothing. They will only hold you back.

I Rock Shaqs
07-03-2013, 12:57 PM
And zero spacing on the floor for Detroit, but that's not my problem. Wouldn't be surprised to see Detroit begin fishing for a draft pick to be able to move to us as part of the deal, I wouldn't move Gay without one.

Zero spacing?!? What are you talking about lol that team couldn't be anymore spaced out if they tried.

LanceUpperCut
07-03-2013, 01:01 PM
I just don't see Pistons as a good trading partner. It's pretty simple to me Raps get some good future assets or they just hold onto him and wait cause his value will just go up as the contract shortens.

Gators123
07-03-2013, 01:02 PM
double post.

Gators123
07-03-2013, 01:02 PM
The problem is that you have nothing else on your roster. I would suggest getting rid of Stuckey and Knight for nothing. They will only hold you back.

Over $20M in cap though. Having flexibility for trades/FA is good to have.

LanceUpperCut
07-03-2013, 01:28 PM
Over $20M in cap though. Having flexibility for trades/FA is good to have.

We don't just give away are best player for cap space plain and simple hence why MU said no thanks. He didn't just give Bargnani away so there's zero chance he does it to Gay.

People put way to much stock into cap space. It's not like were targeting any FA. And were not going to lose are best trading chip for future trade flexibility, Masari is no idiot.

AI
07-03-2013, 01:31 PM
Pistons can have Amare for Stuckey and Charlie if they'd like. Call Grunwald, tell him AI4 sent you.

Deception
07-03-2013, 02:18 PM
Obviously the Pistons aren't too intrigued by him if we offered that to begin with. Raptors will not get Monroe or Drummond, and no first rounder either. Raptors fan got so offended when they read that haha

IversonIsKrazy
07-03-2013, 03:56 PM
We should ask for: Picks, OR one of: Knight/Monroe/Drummond.
Though I love how Raps are finally rebuilding properly for once..... and tanking for Wiggins haha.

LanceUpperCut
07-03-2013, 04:05 PM
Obviously the Pistons aren't too intrigued by him if we offered that to begin with. Raptors will not get Monroe or Drummond, and no first rounder either. Raptors fan got so offended when they read that haha

Maybe not from you guys but from someone else we should. We just got a 1st and 2 second rounders for Bargnani I don't see why we won't get something for Gay, come next offseason or even at the deadline his value could be up more.

Sly Guy
07-03-2013, 04:16 PM
What a terrible offer


I agree

koreancabbage
07-03-2013, 04:21 PM
Obviously the Pistons aren't too intrigued by him if we offered that to begin with. Raptors will not get Monroe or Drummond, and no first rounder either. Raptors fan got so offended when they read that haha

its obvious the Pistons have nothing else to offer. They probably want to pull Gay and one of the marquee free agents together.

Raptor fans are agreeing with the Raptors GM - that trade is a lowball offer and basically has no traction (according to sources) and its obvious that Gay is worth more than that.

gwrighter
07-03-2013, 04:31 PM
Obviously the Pistons aren't too intrigued by him if we offered that to begin with. Raptors will not get Monroe or Drummond, and no first rounder either. Raptors fan got so offended when they read that haha

Not yet, but if(when) you fail to land big name FA's I won't be surprised to see Det call back offering a pick or Monroe as part of the deal.

Deception
07-03-2013, 05:29 PM
Not yet, but if(when) you fail to land big name FA's I won't be surprised to see Det call back offering a pick or Monroe as part of the deal.

Monroe > Gay

I'd rather send him to Boston with Knight and grab Rondo

RipCity32
07-03-2013, 06:06 PM
Not yet, but if(when) you fail to land big name FA's I won't be surprised to see Det call back offering a pick or Monroe as part of the deal.

If we put Monroe on the trade block I would certainly hope we could get back more than Rudy Gay.

BHF
07-03-2013, 06:53 PM
If we put Monroe on the trade block I would certainly hope we could get back more than Rudy Gay.

like who?

mike_noodles
07-03-2013, 07:21 PM
Geez, you would think Monroe was the second coming of Karl Malone the way Detroit fans covet him. He's not a franchise type of guy imo.

Gators123
07-03-2013, 07:35 PM
Monroe is a 23 year old 16 ppg, 10 rpg, 4apg PF on a rookie contract. Why the hell would the Pistons even consider trading him for Rudy Gay? I don't think anybody besides a few Raptor fans would think thats a fair deal.

greg_ory_2005
07-03-2013, 07:41 PM
Monroe is one of the best young bigs in the league. I'm a raptor fan, but I'll still say he's worth more than Rudy.

Charlie V plus 2 1sts and you can have him!

StriveGreatness
07-03-2013, 07:42 PM
Geez, you would think Monroe was the second coming of Karl Malone the way Detroit fans covet him. He's not a franchise type of guy imo.

His value is 2 times what Gay's is, if not more.

b@llhog24
07-03-2013, 07:42 PM
Geez, you would think Monroe was the second coming of Karl Malone the way Detroit fans covet him. He's not a franchise type of guy imo.
Neither is Gay. So what's your point?

bholly
07-03-2013, 07:58 PM
Rudy Gay ‏@rudygay22 1m
Lookin forward to playing a full season with the raptors


:shrug:

bucketss
07-03-2013, 08:08 PM
what the hell are the pistons smoking, pretty sure masai told them to **** off.

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 08:43 PM
If we put Monroe on the trade block I would certainly hope we could get back more than Rudy Gay.

like who? Monroe is playing on a piss-poor team, there's hardly scoring from anyone else, he's a first option. Stop overrating him.

Geez, you would think Monroe was the second coming of Karl Malone the way Detroit fans covet him. He's not a franchise type of guy imo.

Well that's what homers do, we cant blame them. :laugh2:


Monroe is a 23 year old 16 ppg, 10 rpg, 4apg PF on a rookie contract. Why the hell would the Pistons even consider trading him for Rudy Gay? I don't think anybody besides a few Raptor fans would think thats a fair deal.

Rudy gay is a proven player, you cant say he's better than monroe. Monroe is a first option on a bad team and that team is going nowhere.


His value is 2 times what Gay's is, if not more.

you're just another great example of a homer. Gay's team will make the playoffs with the same roaster they have this season while gay is the best player. Can you say the same for the pistons with Monroe being their best player? no you cant.

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 08:46 PM
Mods should just close all these Gay Threads because there isnt anything productive being discussed.
All I see are homers stating Monroe is better than gay, yet Gay's team will be in the playoffs, and Monroe wont be leading his team to the playoffs. Then we'll just have more Piston fans explaining how expiring contracts are enough to get gay because he sucks and is ineffecient. Actually I take it back, I havent read one legitimate post where a piston fan actually tried to explain how this is a good deal other than " tanking", shaking my ****ing head.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 08:48 PM
Wait, there are still people that think Rudy Gay is anything better than average?

You Pistons fans should be thanking TOR for saving you guys from wasting valuable expirings and cap space on Gay.

gwrighter
07-03-2013, 08:49 PM
Monroe > Gay

I'd rather send him to Boston with Knight and grab Rondo

Overall I'd say they are in the same tier. Reason being that Gay is the superior defender and Monroe the superior offensive player.


If we put Monroe on the trade block I would certainly hope we could get back more than Rudy Gay.

You have high hopes. He led Det to less than 30 wins in each of his seasons playing there. I don't know where this elitism is coming from. I get it you like him but he's not a franchise changing player & for the most part neither is Gay. So I think it's a fair deal. Hell, Advanced stats say Amir Johnson is better than Monroe.

gwrighter
07-03-2013, 08:51 PM
Wait, there are still people that think Rudy Gay is anything better than average?

You Pistons fans should be thanking TOR for saving you guys from wasting valuable expirings and cap space on Gay.

So you'd take 200 players over Gay on your team? I don't think so.

TheNumber37
07-03-2013, 08:51 PM
shouldn't they just do a swap for Danny Granger

Gators123
07-03-2013, 08:52 PM
Wait, there are still people that think Rudy Gay is anything better than average?

You Pistons fans should be thanking TOR for saving you guys from wasting valuable expirings and cap space on Gay.

You're a Piston homer!


Oh wait..

bucketss
07-03-2013, 08:57 PM
Mods should just close all these Gay Threads because there isnt anything productive being discussed.
All I see are homers stating Monroe is better than gay, yet Gay's team will be in the playoffs, and Monroe wont be leading his team to the playoffs. Then we'll just have more Piston fans explaining how expiring contracts are enough to get gay because he sucks and is ineffecient. Actually I take it back, I havent read one legitimate post where a piston fan actually tried to explain how this is a good deal other than " tanking", shaking my ****ing head.

i don't see a playoff team at all TBH

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 08:57 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsam01.html#projection::none

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html

Amir Johnson > Greg Monroe. Pistons Homers please.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 08:58 PM
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=bbr&url=%2Fplayers%2Fj%2Fjohnsam01.html&div=div_projection"></script>


<script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=bbr&url=%2Fplayers%2Fm%2Fmonrogr01.html&div=div_projection"></script>

Amir Johnson > Greg Monroe. Pistons Homers please.

lololololololol

FriedTofuz
07-03-2013, 08:59 PM
i don't see a playoff team at all TBH

please name the seeds 1-8, what teams could you have? The raptors are at least the 8th seed LOL

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 09:00 PM
So you'd take 200 players over Gay on your team? I don't think so.

Fine you caught me on a strict definition. But he's middle of the pack at his position so he is an average SF.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 09:01 PM
please name the seeds 1-8, what teams could you have? The raptors are at least the 8th seed LOL

What's even funnier than you thinking TOR doesn't suck is that you think being an 8 seed is good. Enjoy being stuck as that (no more, no less) for the next 5-10 years because that's what your team is shaping up to be.

rocket
07-03-2013, 09:11 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsam01.html#projection::none

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html

Amir Johnson > Greg Monroe. Pistons Homers please.

:laugh:

What in the blue **** LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO

gwrighter
07-03-2013, 09:18 PM
Fine you caught me on a strict definition. But he's middle of the pack at his position so he is an average SF.

He's a top 10 SF in the game and we all know this. Head 2 head there are only a few players better than him. LBJ, Durant, George, Melo & after that he's right in the mix.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2013, 09:21 PM
He's a top 10 SF in the game and we all know this. Head 2 head there are only a few players better than him. LBJ, Durant, George, Melo & after that he's right in the mix.

No he isn't.

gwrighter
07-03-2013, 09:22 PM
:laugh:

What in the blue **** LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO

This is what he should have linked

Amir (http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR.HTM)


Monroe (http://www.82games.com/1213/1213DET.HTM)

Amir Johnson is the better on ball and help defender, has a higher simple rating as well as on/off net rating. Not to mention he's more efficient shooting wise. Monroe beats him out slightly in rebounding but the difference isn't huge. Amir is the better overall player and he sneakily was our best player this season.

gwrighter
07-03-2013, 09:23 PM
No he isn't.

Lol okay there.

akesh99
07-03-2013, 09:25 PM
No he isn't.

Who do you have ahead of him?

rocket
07-03-2013, 09:31 PM
This is what he should have linked

Amir (http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR.HTM)


Monroe (http://www.82games.com/1213/1213DET.HTM)

Amir Johnson is the better on ball and help defender, has a higher simple rating as well as on/off net rating. Not to mention he's more efficient shooting wise. Monroe beats him out slightly in rebounding but the difference isn't huge. Amir is the better overall player and he sneakily was our best player this season.

So you're going to use a stat that says Austin ****ing Daye was the best player on the Pistons to compare Amir Johnson and Greg Monroe? Get real man. Never in a million years will Amir be better than Monroe.

b@llhog24
07-03-2013, 09:37 PM
Wait, there are still people that think Rudy Gay is anything better than average?

You Pistons fans should be thanking TOR for saving you guys from wasting valuable expirings and cap space on Gay.

This.


please name the seeds 1-8, what teams could you have? The raptors are at least the 8th seed LOL

You say that as if that's a good thing.

gwrighter
07-03-2013, 09:46 PM
So you're going to use a stat that says Austin ****ing Daye was the best player on the Pistons to compare Amir Johnson and Greg Monroe? Get real man. Never in a million years will Amir be better than Monroe.

You obviously discount players that play little amounts of time dude. Doesn't mean the stat is irrelevant you just have to account for that bias. Two players that play the same position (PF) and roughly avg. the same mpg give an accurate reading of comparative value.

TorontoHuskies
07-03-2013, 10:00 PM
Toronto:
Tristan Thompson + Luke Walton (expiring) + 2nd rd pick

Cavs:
Rudy Gay
Quincy Acy

LanceUpperCut
07-03-2013, 10:03 PM
Wait, there are still people that think Rudy Gay is anything better than average?

You Pistons fans should be thanking TOR for saving you guys from wasting valuable expirings and cap space on Gay.

Holy **** I'm not that high on Rudy but this is just ****ing ********, Rudy is becoming really underrated now. You seriously think he is just an average player in the this league.

bucketss
07-03-2013, 10:23 PM
friedtofuz just stop bro:laugh:

bucketss
07-03-2013, 10:24 PM
Holy **** I'm not that high on Rudy but this is just ****ing ********, Rudy is becoming really underrated now. You seriously think he is just an average player in the this league.

this forum clowns on guys like rudy for some reason,

ghettosean
07-03-2013, 10:29 PM
You obviously discount players that play little amounts of time dude. Doesn't mean the stat is irrelevant you just have to account for that bias. Two players that play the same position (PF) and roughly avg. the same mpg give an accurate reading of comparative value.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Hard to argue with that!

bucketss
07-03-2013, 10:34 PM
What's even funnier than you thinking TOR doesn't suck is that you think being an 8 seed is good. Enjoy being stuck as that (no more, no less) for the next 5-10 years because that's what your team is shaping up to be.

not really, looks like toronto is going full tank mode for wiggins, rudy and others will traded hoepfully.

JasonJohnHorn
07-03-2013, 10:51 PM
I read this was staunchly rejected by the Raptors. CoAngelo isnt running things anymore.


The Raps made a big trade to bring him in... I doubt they move him, most especially for garbage like that!

If the Raps wanted to move Gay, they could get a MUCH better deal. They could call up Philly or N.O., the Bucks, Charlotte, Washington.... any number of teams that could offer nice picks in a deal and a quality big. If the Pistons were handing over Monroe or Drummond I could see this, but if the Pistons pick up a SF this offseason, it will be via free agency, not raping the Raptors out of an all-star calibre player for Charlie-V....

rocket
07-03-2013, 11:20 PM
CV The Return to the T

ghettosean
07-03-2013, 11:23 PM
CV The Return to the T

and then you wake up from your wonderful dream!

RipCity32
07-03-2013, 11:31 PM
I read this was staunchly rejected by the Raptors. CoAngelo isnt running things anymore.


The Raps made a big trade to bring him in... I doubt they move him, most especially for garbage like that!

If the Raps wanted to move Gay, they could get a MUCH better deal. They could call up Philly or N.O., the Bucks, Charlotte, Washington.... any number of teams that could offer nice picks in a deal and a quality big. If the Pistons were handing over Monroe or Drummond I could see this, but if the Pistons pick up a SF this offseason, it will be via free agency, not raping the Raptors out of an all-star calibre player for Charlie-V....


I don't Know about that.It's not like organizations were lining up to Memphis or right now with young bigs and 1st rounders.We just have alot of capspace and a bunch of rookie contracts that make it were his contract wouldn't cripple us.

rockbottom2010
07-03-2013, 11:34 PM
masai ujiri is the next don of the nba, after pat riley

Quinnsanity
07-03-2013, 11:40 PM
I'd like to see Detroit sign Iggy. Knight/Pope/Iggy/Monroe/Drummond is interesting.

lajoie
07-03-2013, 11:43 PM
Wow, did I actually just read someone say Amir Johnson is better than Greg Monroe?

FriedTofuz
07-04-2013, 12:42 AM
Wow, did I actually just read someone say Amir Johnson is better than Greg Monroe?

yes, that was me, read the post I made, look at the advanced stats WS

gwrighter
07-04-2013, 08:18 AM
this forum clowns on guys like rudy for some reason,

PER junkies.

mike_noodles
07-04-2013, 09:04 AM
His value is 2 times what Gay's is, if not more.

Respectfully disagree. Gay is top ten at his position, Monroe is not. Big men that average less than a double double and don't block shots are a dime a dozen in this league. Hell, we already have one that makes slightly more and is only two years older.


Neither is Gay. So what's your point?

My point is that Cavs fans did the same thing with Hickson and never spent that chip to get James the help he needed. I'm not saying you should spend that chip on Gay, but it's better to cash it while value is max than to get stuck with a guy that's just a good role player when you could have used him to actually get something better.

Gators123
07-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Respectfully disagree. Gay is top ten at his position, Monroe is not. Big men that average less than a double double and don't block shots are a dime a dozen in this league. Hell, we already have one that makes slightly more and is only two years older.



My point is that Cavs fans did the same thing with Hickson and never spent that chip to get James the help he needed. I'm not saying you should spend that chip on Gay, but it's better to cash it while value is max than to get stuck with a guy that's just a good role player when you could have used him to actually get something better.


:laugh: Monroe has only played THREE seasons. Guys that average 16.0 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 3.5 APG are not a dime a dozen.

And actually when Monroe played his natural position, PF, he averaged 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 3.9 APG. Dime a dozen though, right? lol

gwrighter
07-04-2013, 09:51 AM
:laugh: Monroe has only played THREE seasons. Guys that average 16.0 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 3.5 APG are not a dime a dozen.

And actually when Monroe played his natural position, PF, he averaged 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 3.9 APG. Dime a dozen though, right? lol

That's all well and good but where is the difference in the win column? Inserting Rudy onto the Raps made us a .500 team post trade. In comparison Monroe has struggled to lead Det to 30 wins in a season, good players impact wins. I get it you like him as a player but it's not like his impact is a complete game changer. Right now he's just a player putting up solid numbers on a bad team. Besides, he's pretty much reached his ceiling at this point. Rudy is a very solid two-way player, which Monroe up until this point hasn't been.

Gators123
07-04-2013, 09:57 AM
That's all well and good but where is the difference in the win column? Inserting Rudy onto the Raps made us a .500 team post trade. In comparison Monroe has struggled to lead Det to 30 wins in a season, good players impact wins. I get it you like him as a player but it's not like his impact is a complete game changer. Right now he's just a player putting up solid numbers on a bad team. Besides, he's pretty much reached his ceiling at this point. Rudy is a very solid two-way player, which Monroe up until this point hasn't been.


Do you think Gay is better than Kevin Love?

StriveGreatness
07-04-2013, 10:34 AM
Do you think Gay is better than Kevin Love?

Or Kyrie Irving. Such dumb logic. :facepalm:

gwrighter
07-04-2013, 10:51 AM
Do you think Gay is better than Kevin Love?

What kind of question is that? Obviously not, but Monroe didn't average 20 & 15 in his 3rd season either. That is an absurd comparison they aren't even close statistically.(Monroe & Love)

Being able to accumulate stats at the rate that Love does is in itself an accomplishment and a testament to how good of an offensive player he is. Also, he is a bad defender which helps him lose more than his offensive prowess indicates he should.

gwrighter
07-04-2013, 10:56 AM
Or Kyrie Irving. Such dumb logic. :facepalm:

Not sure what Kyrie has to do with this. We aren't talking about PG's.

Gators123
07-04-2013, 11:10 AM
That's all well and good but where is the difference in the win column? Inserting Rudy onto the Raps made us a .500 team post trade. In comparison Monroe has struggled to lead Det to 30 wins in a season, good players impact wins. I get it you like him as a player but it's not like his impact is a complete game changer. Right now he's just a player putting up solid numbers on a bad team. Besides, he's pretty much reached his ceiling at this point. Rudy is a very solid two-way player, which Monroe up until this point hasn't been.


What kind of question is that? Obviously not, but Monroe didn't average 20 & 15 in his 3rd season either. That is an absurd comparison they aren't even close statistically.(Monroe & Love)

Being able to accumulate stats at the rate that Love does is in itself an accomplishment and a testament to how good of an offensive player he is. Also, he is a bad defender which helps him lose more than his offensive prowess indicates he should.


Oh so wins don't matter now, right? :laugh2:

And why does it matter that Kyrie is a PG? We've been comparing a SF and a guy that mostly played Center. Why not compare a PG and a SF?

Is Gay better than Kyrie?

mike_noodles
07-04-2013, 11:48 AM
Oh so wins don't matter now, right? :laugh2:

And why does it matter that Kyrie is a PG? We've been comparing a SF and a guy that mostly played Center. Why not compare a PG and a SF?

Is Gay better than Kyrie?

:facepalm: Comparing Monroe to the guy that broke the double double streak, like I said, Pistons fans are severely overrating Monroe.

Yes we are comparing a SF to a PF/C because (get this) THEY ARE THE ONES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRADING FOR EACH OTHER.

And GW brings up a great point, Monroe could very easily be a case of best player on a terrible team.

And GW clearly stated that wins DO matter when he said that adding Gay made the Raps into a .500 club post trade.

lajoie
07-04-2013, 12:03 PM
:facepalm: Comparing Monroe to the guy that broke the double double streak, like I said, Pistons fans are severely overrating Monroe.

Yes we are comparing a SF to a PF/C because (get this) THEY ARE THE ONES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRADING FOR EACH OTHER.

And GW brings up a great point, Monroe could very easily be a case of best player on a terrible team.

And GW clearly stated that wins DO matter when he said that adding Gay made the Raps into a .500 club post trade.

And a couple of those wins post trade were helped immensely by the 5 game winning streak to end the season when the Bulls, Hawks and Celtics barely played any of their starters.

Can't take that too seriously.

b@llhog24
07-04-2013, 12:07 PM
My point is that Cavs fans did the same thing with Hickson and never spent that chip to get James the help he needed. I'm not saying you should spend that chip on Gay, but it's better to cash it while value is max than to get stuck with a guy that's just a good role player when you could have used him to actually get something better.

It's a bad trade for both parties involved. And Munroe is more than a "role player." But then again that's subjective, what makes you think he's one?

h2r09
07-04-2013, 12:09 PM
I would like this for both teams. The pistons could build a great, young athletic team that just needs some shooting.

The raptors can rebuild completely and if lucky they can tank and get the canadian wiggins in the draft next year while at the same time getting cap space for next year and building around Valanciunas.

mike_noodles
07-04-2013, 12:22 PM
It's a bad trade for both parties involved. And Munroe is more than a "role player." But then again that's subjective, what makes you think he's one?

To be fair I did say a good role player. I think that because franchise type players have usually showed that already by the their third season. Take Bosh as an example, his third season was very good, 22 + 9 with a PER over 23. Had he of stayed with the Raptors, we'd be talking HOF type of statistics, but when he goes to a team with two other great players, he becomes a great role player. So what I'm saying is that if Monroe is your best player, your team is not going to be good enough to win championships.

It doesn't really matter to me, I don't want Monroe anyways. If the Raps do trade Gay, I only want expirings and first round picks. If the Pistons do sweeten the pot, I want the kid they just drafted, not Monroe and not a 2016 pick.

RipCity32
07-04-2013, 12:27 PM
Neither Monroe or Gay are franchise players honestly.I still think Monroe is the better player though.

Vampirate
07-04-2013, 01:44 PM
Looks like the Toronto-Detroit Rudy trade isn't going to happen.

RipCity32
07-04-2013, 02:04 PM
Looks like the Toronto-Detroit Rudy trade isn't going to happen.

There isn't really a way to make both teams happy unless a 3rd team gets involved.If Toronto isn't looking to tank than it doesn't really make sense for them.I do think Dumars is getting desperate though for a wing player who can score more than 13ppg so he might try again later.

b@llhog24
07-04-2013, 02:07 PM
To be fair I did say a good role player. I think that because franchise type players have usually showed that already by the their third season. Take Bosh as an example, his third season was very good, 22 + 9 with a PER over 23.

Moose has shown one year of regression, which is still a mystery to me but that doesn't mean it's a downward trend yet. And him neither Bosh were franchise players (I don't really consider prime Bosh one either) but that's the subjectivity in names. Production however?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=boshch01&y1=2006&p2=monrogr01&y2=2013

You could actually argue that Moose was better considering defense; but I'd call it splitting hairs at that point.


Had he of stayed with the Raptors, we'd be talking HOF type of statistics, but when he goes to a team with two other great players, he becomes a great role player. So what I'm saying is that if Monroe is your best player, your team is not going to be good enough to win championships.


Bosh would've been seen in the same boat if we're rating by their first three years in the league. Although I don't think Moose's ceiling is as high as Bosh, but who knows?


It doesn't really matter to me, I don't want Monroe anyways. If the Raps do trade Gay, I only want expirings and first round picks. If the Pistons do sweeten the pot, I want the kid they just drafted, not Monroe and not a 2016 pick.

Fair enough.

Vampirate
07-04-2013, 02:09 PM
There isn't really a way to make both teams happy unless a 3rd team gets involved.If Toronto isn't looking to tank than it doesn't really make sense for them.I do think Dumars is getting desperate though for a wing player who can score more than 13ppg so he might try again later.

Honestly Masai Ujiri is looking for at least 1 first round pick to go along with some expiring contracts for somejunk players.

He's already set the bar with Bargs so anything less than at least a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder with some bad players who will expire and he'll say no thanks.

There's no doubt Rudy has more value than Bargnani.

gwrighter
07-04-2013, 02:19 PM
Oh so wins don't matter now, right? :laugh2:

And why does it matter that Kyrie is a PG? We've been comparing a SF and a guy that mostly played Center. Why not compare a PG and a SF?

Is Gay better than Kyrie?

And I guess historical seasons and performances don't either? If you want to get back on topic then I'm here but if not then no point continuing the dialogue.

RipCity32
07-04-2013, 02:34 PM
Honestly Masai Ujiri is looking for at least 1 first round pick to go along with some expiring contracts for somejunk players.

He's already set the bar with Bargs so anything less than at least a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder with some bad players who will expire and he'll say no thanks.
There's no doubt Rudy has more value than Bargnani.

I just can't see someone giving you guys a 2014 1st rounder for him unless its from a title contender.The Knicks first rounders might as well be considered 2nd rounders.

Vampirate
07-04-2013, 02:37 PM
I just can't see someone giving you guys a 2014 1st rounder for him unless its from a title contender.The Knicks first rounders might as well be considered 2nd rounders.

I didn't say a 2014 1st round pick, I said a 1st round pick in general, it could be in 2015 or 2016 for all I know.

Gators123
07-04-2013, 05:49 PM
Not true http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

danielleighgill
07-04-2013, 08:24 PM
Wow. I cant believe my last post was deleted. I didn't realize the nba forum was so sensitive.