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View Full Version : Discussion: Clippers can technically sign a max free agent, in addition to paul



BingBing
07-01-2013, 07:52 PM
under the nba cba, and bird rights and things of that matter, if the clippers trade jordan and butler away, and recieve 0 salary in return, they will have enough to sign a player like dwight howard, al jefferson or any other free agent(s) looking for max money

theoretically, they could go out and sign either howard, or a combo of jefferson+ oj mayo

the catch is, chris paul cannot sign with them until AFTER the free agent is signed

if the clippers move both butler and jordan, they will free up 18 million in cap space

then would then sign the free agents they want

then after all that, even if they are over the cap, they can resign paul to a max deal, because they own his bird rights

if paul is resigned before tho, they cannot sign anyone because they would be over the cap


just something to think about. i dont know why the clippers havent considered this already. bird rights are a gift to be used, given to us by the cba

rockets-fan
07-01-2013, 07:55 PM
No. They would have done it by now, there has to be a reason why they haven't done it.

still1ballin
07-01-2013, 07:55 PM
Oh

ChitownBears22
07-01-2013, 07:55 PM
How are they trading Jordan and Billups and not getting any cap in return?

Serious question, not familiar with this.

ManRam
07-01-2013, 07:59 PM
How are they trading Jordan and Billups and not getting any cap in return?

Serious question, not familiar with this.

this would be my question too.

the teams they'd be trading them to would have to be well under the cap so that they wouldn't have to match salary. i guess they'd give up a future pick. thing is, no team under the cap is gonna be targeting billups, and i don't someone would just take on jordan's huge salary without shedding some of their own

while it may technically be possible for them to get enough room (i'm not doing the math) it's not gonna happen. if that was their goal we'd be clear of it by now

leprechaun5
07-01-2013, 08:02 PM
The team's free agents continue to be included in team salary. This charge is called the "free agent amount," which is a form of cap hold. There may not be enough money available under the cap to sign another team's free agent, because the team's own free agents are taking up all its cap room.

Why do free agents continue to count against team salary?


It closes a loophole. Teams otherwise would be able to sign other teams' free agents using their cap room, and then turn their attention to their own free agents using the Bird exception. This rule restricts their ability to do that. It uses the player's current status (type of free agent, whether coming off a rookie contract, and previous salary) as a rough guideline to predict the amount the player is likely to receive in his next contract, and sets that amount aside in the form of a cap hold.

:) even with all this being said , there's no way they can trade butler and jordan without taking salaries back .

BingBing
07-01-2013, 08:05 PM
this would be my question too.

the teams they'd be trading them to would have to be well under the cap so that they wouldn't have to match salary. i guess they'd give up a future pick. thing is, no team under the cap is gonna be targeting billups, and i don't someone would just take on jordan's huge salary without shedding some of their own

while it may technically be possible for them to get enough room (i'm not doing the math) it's not gonna happen. if that was their goal we'd be clear of it by now


exactly, tradign those players, either together, or separately to another team, while getting only draft picks or trade exceptions in return


i think the gm's are aware, but its a big risk, considering you are giving up 2 valuable players, without having a guarentee that you will get the player you want via free agency

bholly
07-01-2013, 08:05 PM
OP, you're wrong.

Free Agents have what's called a 'cap hold', which is essentially an amount that counts towards the team's cap figure until they sign a contract, or the team 'renounces' them (which means they also lose their Bird rights and can't go over the cap to re-sign them later).

Chris Paul's cap hold is $18,668,431, which means he counts that much towards the Clippers' cap even before they sign him.

People on here (and elsewhere) come up with the exact same plan every year. The reason teams don't do it isn't because they didn't think of it, it's because it doesn't work.


Edit: Leprechaun beat me to it.

DillyDill
07-01-2013, 08:09 PM
That's crazzzy so they can possibly steal an agent?

BingBing
07-01-2013, 08:10 PM
OP, you're wrong.

Free Agents have what's called a 'cap hold', which is essentially an amount that counts towards the team's cap figure until they sign a contract, or the team 'renounces' them (which means they also lose their Bird rights and can't go over the cap to re-sign them later).

Chris Paul's cap hold is $18,668,431, which means he counts that much towards the Clippers' cap even before they sign him.

People on here (and elsewhere) come up with the exact same plan every year. The reason teams don't do it isn't because they didn't think of it, it's because it doesn't work.


Edit: Leprechaun beat me to it.

oh ok, im sorry, i had completely forgot about that factor. i thought only restricted free agents were recorded as a cap hold

bholly
07-01-2013, 08:16 PM
The best they possibly could do, in terms of signing a new max-level guy, is to dump everyone else and get CP3 and/or the new guy to take a slight paycut. Obviously we're talking about Dwight as the third.
Blake + CP3's max + Dwight's max + 9 roster-size holds for having less than 12 players = $59,995,728.
That's likely to be above the cap level (projected to be $58.5m), so they can't do it without paycuts - they can do it with a slight paycut to get under the limit though. Of course they'd have a supporting cast of almost all min guys, too.
Obviously, though, while it's possible, it isn't going to happen, because nobody's taking on the rest of their roster for nothing.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 08:18 PM
It's called a cap hold.

Cracka2HI!
07-01-2013, 08:26 PM
I've brought this up many times around here as a sort of pipe dream. When realism kicks in, it's not even the best way to do things and thats ignoring the fact it would be nearly impossible. I think the fact you don't hear the team talking about trying to do this tells you how risky and unrewarding this process would be. Say they did dump DJ, Butler and Bledsoe for nothing...they still couldn't offer Howard a max deal and CP3 would have to take less than the max to make it remotely worth it. Clippers would end up with something like CP3, Blake, West or Jefferson, Crawford, Bullock and a bunch of scrubs. They are better off adding a piece or 2 to what they already have. They have already filled their one glarring need which was at coach. Of course most of PSD thinks VDN=Doc and the Clipps are no better.

bholly
07-01-2013, 08:31 PM
Of course most of PSD thinks VDN=Doc and the Clipps are no better.

Man, a few of you Clipps guys really seem to have a complex about this stuff. The overall view, as far as I've seen, is that Doc is a huuuuge improvement over VDN. I don't think I've seen a single person disagree with that. I feel like you guys must just see one or two idiots say something that everyone else ignores and take it as some sort of mass persecution.

bleedprple&gold
07-01-2013, 08:33 PM
Lol at OP thinking he found a loophole in the CBA that nobody thought of yet :laugh:

Kevj77
07-01-2013, 08:35 PM
The reason no teams do this is because they can't. Still every teams fanbase thinks it up every offseason. Like hey why don't the Lakers amnesty Kobe trade Pau for nothing and sign CP3 before they re-sign Howard.

See it works for the Lakers too if it wasn't for the CBA. NBA already thought of this, which is why there are cap holds on free agents.

Shlumpledink
07-01-2013, 08:39 PM
It is possible but highly unlikely. I'm more likely to be struck by lightning while writing this post, so if you are able to read this post then it's a sure sign that no one is going to help the clippers here.

Slug3
07-01-2013, 09:57 PM
Lol at OP thinking he found a loophole in the CBA that nobody thought of yet :laugh:

For real, lol. Even if they didn't sin CP3 they still have his cap hold till he signs somewhere else or they denounce his rights in which his bird rights would then also be gone. Lol

Cracka2HI!
07-01-2013, 09:58 PM
Man, a few of you Clipps guys really seem to have a complex about this stuff. The overall view, as far as I've seen, is that Doc is a huuuuge improvement over VDN. I don't think I've seen a single person disagree with that. I feel like you guys must just see one or two idiots say something that everyone else ignores and take it as some sort of mass persecution.I think you have it backwards. There are mostly idiots commenting on the Clippers and few level headed posters such as yourself that tell it like it is. Almost everything I read about the Clippers on this board is negative and uninformed. Maybe I'm wrong. I certainly don't have a complex like another Clippers fan around here.


Lol at OP thinking he found a loophole in the CBA that nobody thought of yet :laugh:

:laugh: That is really funny when you think about it...now he's banned LOL!

Slug3
07-01-2013, 10:00 PM
I still remember Miami tried doing this n they aimed Juwan Howard first then signed Zo with his bird rights as they would have been over the cap if they signed Zo first. Stern came in and said nope and then created his rule.

Manimal
07-02-2013, 03:43 AM
I always use this on NBA 2K13. In reality it doesn't work offcourse as already mentioned.

Kyben36
07-02-2013, 03:58 AM
under the nba cba, and bird rights and things of that matter, if the clippers trade jordan and butler away, and recieve 0 salary in return, they will have enough to sign a player like dwight howard, al jefferson or any other free agent(s) looking for max money

theoretically, they could go out and sign either howard, or a combo of jefferson+ oj mayo

the catch is, chris paul cannot sign with them until AFTER the free agent is signed

if the clippers move both butler and jordan, they will free up 18 million in cap space

then would then sign the free agents they want

then after all that, even if they are over the cap, they can resign paul to a max deal, because they own his bird rights

if paul is resigned before tho, they cannot sign anyone because they would be over the cap


just something to think about. i dont know why the clippers havent considered this already. bird rights are a gift to be used, given to us by the cba

the last time the clips tried this, they lost out on Elton brand who was coming off his best season.

I doubt they try this IMO.

Trueblue2
07-02-2013, 04:02 AM
No they'd have to renounce his Bird rights or else there's still a cap hold from his contract for last years contract plus like 5% and if they did that they couldn't sign him to a max.

LakersIn5
07-02-2013, 07:21 AM
i do this all the time in 2k haha

JasonJohnHorn
07-02-2013, 09:08 AM
This isn't how it works. In order to have that count as cap space you have to renounce rights to the free agents on your team first, forgoing the 'Bird' rights. If the Clippers choose to use their cap space for another player before signing CP3, they cannot sign him unless he signs for a vet-min/MLE.

BKLYNpigeon
07-02-2013, 09:40 AM
theres only 1-3 teams in the NBA that can absorb DeAndre Jordan and Caron Butlers contract.

2-ONE-5
07-02-2013, 09:41 AM
lol If theyu trade Jordan and Butler they can offer a max. ummm the majority of the league can deal 2 highly paid players and have room for a max. too funny

Pierzynski4Prez
07-02-2013, 10:42 AM
lol If theyu trade Jordan and Butler they can offer a max. ummm the majority of the league can deal 2 highly paid players and have room for a max. too funny

This

NYKnicks4511
07-02-2013, 10:52 AM
under the nba cba, and bird rights and things of that matter, if the clippers trade jordan and butler away, and recieve 0 salary in return, they will have enough to sign a player like dwight howard, al jefferson or any other free agent(s) looking for max money

theoretically, they could go out and sign either howard, or a combo of jefferson+ oj mayo

the catch is, chris paul cannot sign with them until AFTER the free agent is signed

if the clippers move both butler and jordan, they will free up 18 million in cap space

then would then sign the free agents they want

then after all that, even if they are over the cap, they can resign paul to a max deal, because they own his bird rights

if paul is resigned before tho, they cannot sign anyone because they would be over the cap


just something to think about. i dont know why the clippers havent considered this already. bird rights are a gift to be used, given to us by the cba

I do this all the time in 2k. Simple answer to your question though: Nobody wants to take on those contracts without hefty compensation - which likely would mean sending out Bledsoe AND picks as well. Don't think it makes sense for the Clips to do that as they are already positioned relatively well in the West.