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View Full Version : Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan For Iman Shumpert and Tyson Chandler?



Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 01:52 PM
NBA Rumors ‏@NBARUMORS 12s
Rumor: Iman Shumpert and Tyson Chandler for Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan.

Since it's not spreading like wildfire yet I doubt it's validity. Just curious if you guys think it's an okay trade? I like it because we need a SG of the future. Knicks might like it because Felton is meh and DJ is WAY cheaper and younger than Chandler.

bowdown27
07-01-2013, 01:55 PM
I honestly can see it being true. Cp3 loves Tyson and would want him in la with him.

abe_froman
07-01-2013, 01:55 PM
why for the knicks?

gatkins11
07-01-2013, 01:55 PM
It would be awesome to see a CP3/Chandler reunion.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 01:56 PM
why for the knicks?

Well Shumpert isn't meant to play SF and Bledsoe gives the Knicks a long term PG. Plus DJ is a poor man's Chandler while making 5 million less a year and being over 6 years younger. Not saying Knicks fans will agree, just an idea.

valade16
07-01-2013, 01:57 PM
The trade is probably equal value however in terms of on court impact this would be terrible for NY if they also got Bargnani. The only way Bargnani would work defensively is if Chandler is also there as the defensive anchor. a Bargnani/Chandler combo is a lot better defensively than a Bargnani/Jordan combo...

ManningToTyree
07-01-2013, 02:00 PM
I would be surprised and super pissed if the Knicks did this. Doesn't make any sense.

THE MTL
07-01-2013, 02:00 PM
Hell no we better not.

herewegocubbies
07-01-2013, 02:01 PM
I don't do it if I'm the Knicks. They'd have no defense if they lose Chandler and Shump.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:01 PM
I would be surprised and super pissed if the Knicks did this. Doesn't make any sense.

Would you be madder than you were when you sent 3 draft picks for Bargnani? Or less?

Avenged
07-01-2013, 02:01 PM
Don't get it for the Knicks side..

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:01 PM
I don't do it if I'm the Knicks. They'd have no defense if they lose Chandler and Shump.

Bledsoe is an elite perimeter defender just like Shumpert. No doubt interior defense wise they take some of a step back.

Jetsguy
07-01-2013, 02:03 PM
This doesnt make sense for the Knicks at all. I would say replace Iman with Felton if they want a backup PG and Tyson to reunite him with CP3?

But again, Knicks defense of Jordan/Bargs/Melo on the frontcourt would be historically bad

Becks2307
07-01-2013, 02:05 PM
Nope

Nope

Nope

RiceOnTheRun
07-01-2013, 02:05 PM
Ughhhhh

I hate any deal that involves Shump because he's just an awesome guy all around. Even if it was a Lebron for Shump deal, I'd still cry a little that Shump was gone. Objectively speaking though, if we do this, we'd need to figure out something with Felton because I think Prigs gives us a whole different game when he's on the court and he probably wouldn't get much time with Bledsoe/Felton. I'm a bit hesitant to trade away our two best defenders as well. If the Knicks really want to go full small ball, then I guess it helps on the offensive end a bit...? I'd find it hard for them to get past the Pacers with Hibbert without a guy to slow him down. Even the small ball kings in Miami needed a full effort from Lebron to get past them, it'll be tough for us. I'd probably hate this trade at first, but I guess I could come around to like it eventually?

Pretty good trade for the Clippers though. Shump is definitely one of those effort guys who would be a perfect backcourt sidekick to CP3. #steals4days His shot's getting better and he's improving as a player. I still think he looks best in orange and blue though :sigh:

herewegocubbies
07-01-2013, 02:05 PM
Bledsoe is an elite perimeter defender just like Shumpert. No doubt interior defense wise they take some of a step back.

The fact that you are defending it so much just goes to show that you know that your team would be getting the better end of the deal, but I feel you.

29$JerZ
07-01-2013, 02:06 PM
No way NY does it. It makes no sense.
Tyson > Deandre and at least can hit freethrows and not be a late game liability.

Shumpert and Bledsoe are essentially the same potential wise.
NY would have to be receiving picks or more because that deal is clearly 1 sided.

NYKnicks4511
07-01-2013, 02:06 PM
Bledsoe is an elite perimeter defender just like Shumpert. No doubt interior defense wise they take some of a step back.

Shumpert's better than Bledsoe, and Tyson is better than DeAndre.
Simply put, the Knicks would never be dumb enough to do this. /thread

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:07 PM
The fact that you are defending it so much just goes to show that you know that your team would be getting the better end of the deal, but I feel you.

Not defending it, just saying the incoming player isn't a worse defender or at least a much worse on.

ManningToTyree
07-01-2013, 02:07 PM
I would be surprised and super pissed if the Knicks did this. Doesn't make any sense.

Would you be madder than you were when you sent 3 draft picks for Bargnani? Or less?
The bargs trade was fine. We essentially traded a bunch of spare parts and a late first rounder for a stretch 4 which we could use.

Why would we trade shump and chandler for two lesser players

Crackadalic
07-01-2013, 02:09 PM
I can take giving away camby Novak and a 1st rounder that Denver is gonna swap with anyway but to give up Tyson for Dj and iman for Bledsoe? No iman can guard up to 3 position. I love Bledsoe but he isn't a need now that we can just give up iman. Dj makes our defense worse. If we're not gonna get a pick back in this deal then no.

NYK_kidd77
07-01-2013, 02:12 PM
This was mentioned by a caller on a radio station. Nothing valid to it.

Metsboi69
07-01-2013, 02:14 PM
I think Shump for Bledsoe makes a ton of sense for the Knicks especially if JR resigns. But the Chandler/Jordan swap does not.

NYKnickFanatic
07-01-2013, 02:14 PM
I doubt this is true. I would do Chandler for Jordan and Bledsoe, but leave Shump out.

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:14 PM
Looks like the Knicks trying to clear some cap to make future moves while still being competitive . Bledsoe and Shump are a wash IMO , Knicks need a PG ? clips need a SG ; Tyson is better than Jordan but aging while Jordan is cheaper and improving . It's not as bad as people think it is ..... It makes sense

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:15 PM
I doubt this is true. I would do Chandler for Jordan and Bledsoe, but leave Shump out.

Talk about a rip off

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:16 PM
Let's get this out of the way before Knicks fans run this thread into the ground.

Eric Bledsoe:

Per 36: 15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.5 bpg. 44.5 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 79 from the stripe. PER of 17.5, WS/48 of .115


Iman Shumpert:

PER 36: 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg. 39.6 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 76.6 percent from the stripe. PER of 11.7, WS/48 of .094.


Tell me on which planet is Shump a better player? Their man defense is equal in terms of ability although Shump can obviously guard more positions. I'm a big Shump fan but stop it.

Trueblue2
07-01-2013, 02:16 PM
First Bargs now this... Are we sure Isaiah isn't still running the show in NY?

29$JerZ
07-01-2013, 02:20 PM
Let's get this out of the way before Knicks fans run this thread into the ground.

Eric Bledsoe:

Per 36: 15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.5 bpg. 44.5 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 79 from the stripe. PER of 17.5, WS/48 of .115


Iman Shumpert:

PER 36: 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg. 39.6 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 76.6 percent from the stripe. PER of 11.7, WS/48 of .094.


Tell me on which planet is Shump a better player? Their man defense is equal in terms of ability although Shump can obviously guard more positions. I'm a big Shump fan but stop it.

Shump and Bledsoe are a wash
Tyson is infinitely > than ?DJ
That's why this deal is awful

tr3ymill3r
07-01-2013, 02:21 PM
Weren't we just talking Bledsoe and Griffin for Dwight, now it's Bledsoe and Jordan for Shumpert and Chandler? Tyson, won't be the New Orleans player with CP3, he's gotten older and it looked like he lost a step on help defense last year.

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:21 PM
Let's get this out of the way before Knicks fans run this thread into the ground.

Eric Bledsoe:

Per 36: 15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.5 bpg. 44.5 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 79 from the stripe. PER of 17.5, WS/48 of .115


Iman Shumpert:

PER 36: 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg. 39.6 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 76.6 percent from the stripe. PER of 11.7, WS/48 of .094.


Tell me on which planet is Shump a better player? Their man defense is equal in terms of ability although Shump can obviously guard more positions. I'm a big Shump fan but stop it.

Welp Knicks lol

BBallfan8
07-01-2013, 02:22 PM
Let's get this out of the way before Knicks fans run this thread into the ground.

Eric Bledsoe:

Per 36: 15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.5 bpg. 44.5 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 79 from the stripe. PER of 17.5, WS/48 of .115


Iman Shumpert:

PER 36: 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg. 39.6 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 76.6 percent from the stripe. PER of 11.7, WS/48 of .094.


Tell me on which planet is Shump a better player? Their man defense is equal in terms of ability although Shump can obviously guard more positions. I'm a big Shump fan but stop it.

Shump's stats are a little skewed because he was horrible his first few months back from surgery... but I agree that Shump for Bledsoe is a pretty fair deal... I would just rather keep the homegrown talent.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:22 PM
Shump and Bledsoe are a wash
Tyson is infinitely > than ?DJ
That's why this deal is awful

Wouldn't say a wash. Would say Bledsoe is a little better than Shump but not as much of a gap as Chandler is better than DJ. Although Knicks DO save massive money long term, get younger and DJ's still on a year by year pace to become Chandler. Chandler didn't become a full time starter or blow up until his 6th season. Clippers win the trade by a little bit but it's not some rapage or anything.

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:22 PM
Shump and Bledsoe are a wash
Tyson is infinitely > than ?DJ
That's why this deal is awful

It's not awful when you creating cap space in the process and Jordan is still improving . Jordan ceiling is Tyson he's still so young .

29$JerZ
07-01-2013, 02:25 PM
Wouldn't say a wash. Would say Bledsoe is a little better than Shump but not as much of a gap as Chandler is better than DJ. Although Knicks DO save massive money long term, get younger and DJ's still on a year by year pace to become Chandler. Chandler didn't become a full time starter or blow up until his 6th season. Clippers win the trade by a little bit but it's not some rapage or anything.

Tyson expires the same time as Melo/Amar'e/Bargs
Trading for DJ does not save us anything.

It's a God awful rip off of a trade idea.
I think its easier to find an athletic PG than it is to find a G who can defend 3positions.
I wouldn't trade Shump for Bledsoe straight up either, I don't see him as a PG you'd build your team around even though he has a bright future.

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:26 PM
Lol

NYKnickFanatic
07-01-2013, 02:26 PM
Talk about a rip off

;)

29$JerZ
07-01-2013, 02:28 PM
It's not awful when you creating cap space in the process and Jordan is still improving . Jordan ceiling is Tyson he's still so young .

What CAP space?
Tyson/Melo/Amar'e/Bargs expire at the same time.

Deandre can't be played in the last minutes of a game because he is awful at the FT line.
Makes no sense to do this trade unless you are a Clipper.

Knick_Fever
07-01-2013, 02:29 PM
Let's get this out of the way before Knicks fans run this thread into the ground.

Eric Bledsoe:

Per 36: 15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.5 bpg. 44.5 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 79 from the stripe. PER of 17.5, WS/48 of .115


Iman Shumpert:

PER 36: 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg. 39.6 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 76.6 percent from the stripe. PER of 11.7, WS/48 of .094.


Tell me on which planet is Shump a better player? Their man defense is equal in terms of ability although Shump can obviously guard more positions. I'm a big Shump fan but stop it.


You're under-estimating the **it outta this, but I guess you're the expert.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:29 PM
DJ shot 71 percent from the line last year, just say yes :)

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:30 PM
You're under-estimating the **it outta this, but I guess you're the expert.

Haha.. I just posted the numbers for people to see, not underestimating anything. Shumpert is a nice defender but he's not a better all around player than Bledsoe right now, that's all.

Jetsguy
07-01-2013, 02:30 PM
DJ shot 71 percent from the line last year, just say yes :)

LOL you want this to happen soooooo bad

Knick_Fever
07-01-2013, 02:31 PM
Haha.. I just posted the numbers for people to see, not underestimating anything. Shumpert is a nice defender but he's not a better all around player than Bledsoe right now, that's all.

Its not the numbers, its the ability to guard multiple positions that you're under-estimating. Read the bold.

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:32 PM
I mean .... Isn't Jordan's contract smaller than Tyson and Bledsoe and Shump basically the same ? So how arent the Knicks saving a Lil bit of cash that allows them to sign another SG ?

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-01-2013, 02:32 PM
Chandler for Bledsoe and Jordan actually isnt a terrible deal, but to deal shump away would be silly. As someone who hates the Knicks, I hope they go for it, but I dont think theyre that stupid.

Knick_Fever
07-01-2013, 02:33 PM
LOL you want this to happen soooooo bad

lol, yeah. I would probably do it if they threw in a 1st rd pick.

Jetsguy
07-01-2013, 02:34 PM
Haha.. I just posted the numbers for people to see, not underestimating anything. Shumpert is a nice defender but he's not a better all around player than Bledsoe right now, that's all.

Not sure the numbers but shouldnt we be comparing Felton to Bledsoe since Iman plays a different position and different role without the ball in his hands ever?

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:34 PM
Its not the numbers, its the ability to guard multiple positions that you're under-estimating. Read the bold.

I already agreed with that. Shump is the more versatile defender so because of that alone I'd give him a small defensive edge, although Bledsoe is an elite perimeter defender himself. Thing is offensively Bledsoe blows him out of the water.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:35 PM
Not sure the numbers but shouldnt we be comparing Felton to Bledsoe since Iman plays a different position and different role without the ball in his hands ever?

Steals, blocks, rebounding, scoring efficiency aren't related to ballhandling. We can disregard assists of course.

Knick_Fever
07-01-2013, 02:35 PM
Chandler for Bledsoe and Jordan actually isnt a terrible deal, but to deal shump away would be silly. As someone who hates the Knicks, I hope they go for it, but I dont think theyre that stupid.

This.

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:35 PM
Plus aren't you guys going after Tony Allen ? Wouldn't this trade help you do that if Jordan make less money than Tyson ?

Jetsguy
07-01-2013, 02:36 PM
I mean .... Isn't Jordan's contract smaller than Tyson and Bledsoe and Shump basically the same ? So how arent the Knicks saving a Lil bit of cash that allows them to sign another SG ?

Contracts mean nothing to us right now. we have like 70M plus coiming 2015 and no flexability right now to make any move that will put us over the top so in this scenario it means squat

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:37 PM
Knicks fans... you want this.... I can sense it.

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:37 PM
I don't see how Chandler for Jordan and Bledsoe is fair but alright

Jetsguy
07-01-2013, 02:37 PM
Steals, blocks, rebounding, scoring efficiency aren't related to ballhandling. We can disregard assists of course.

But you cant disregard taking our starting 2 and giving us a PG with equal production to what we already have

Knick_Fever
07-01-2013, 02:37 PM
I already agreed with that. Shump is the more versatile defender so because of that alone I'd give him a small defensive edge, although Bledsoe is an elite perimeter defender himself. Thing is offensively Bledsoe blows him out of the water.

No Deal!!

Stunner
07-01-2013, 02:38 PM
If the Knicks can get Bledsoe , Tony Allen and Jordan out of this I call it a win but hey . You're still in win now and your future is nicer . Two young players oppose to one

AI
07-01-2013, 02:41 PM
So the Knicks give up the 2 better players just for ***** and giggles?

KnickaBocka.44
07-01-2013, 02:42 PM
I wouldn't do it, unless Tony Allen also signs, then I would have to think about it.

valade16
07-01-2013, 02:45 PM
.

Remember in that other thread when I said Shumpert was insanely overrated because he plays in NY? Yeah, you're getting to see it first-hand now...

hugepatsfan
07-01-2013, 02:46 PM
This trade favors the Clippers. Not a blowout but a decided advantage. Chandler is a lot better than Jordan - a lot. And while Jordan is younger he's not on a rookie contract so there's really no benefit to him being young. He's pretty maxed out or relatively close to it IMO. I know tendency is to assume young players will continue to grow but eventually everyone maxes out and DJ doesn't appear to have the skillset to be much more than what he is.

And as far as the Bledsoe-Shumpert debate, it's irrelevant to the Clippers because of position. Even if Bledsoe is a better player Shumpert is close enough where positions make up the difference. Shumpert plays SG, a position they have a gaping hole at in their starting lineup. Bledsoe is the backup to their best player. I'd actually prefer Bledsoe to Shumpert all else equal but the Clippers would be better off with Shumpert.

KnickaBocka.44
07-01-2013, 02:46 PM
Wouldn't say a wash. Would say Bledsoe is a little better than Shump but not as much of a gap as Chandler is better than DJ. Although Knicks DO save massive money long term, get younger and DJ's still on a year by year pace to become Chandler. Chandler didn't become a full time starter or blow up until his 6th season. Clippers win the trade by a little bit but it's not some rapage or anything.

They save less than 4 million per year, closer to 3, but since they are over the cap it doesn't matter. Finances don't matter in this deal so the notion that the Knicks benefit from saving money is false.

JonnyBrav000
07-01-2013, 02:47 PM
Haha.. I just posted the numbers for people to see, not underestimating anything. Shumpert is a nice defender but he's not a better all around player than Bledsoe right now, that's all.


If I'm the knicks management I do not do this deal as is. Shumpert and Bledsoe may be a wash to many of you, but Shumpert is 6'5 and Bledsoe is 6'1, big difference. Also, Shumpert's performance in the playoffs was outstanding. Whatever stats you want to throw out there are skewed to the fact that Shumpert was working his way back from a serious knee injury. Shumpert's defense through the playoffs also was very Scottie Pippen-esk. No way this is a serious deal for the Knicks to consider, besides Tyson is better than DJ, WAY BETTER! Only way I do this deal is without Shumpert. But Felton wouldn't make much sense for the Clippers either, well maybe Felton and the rights to Copeland (if that's possible) but I still wouldn't want to give up on Tyson. I don't think this deal works out in any such way.

NYKnickFanatic
07-01-2013, 02:49 PM
Remember in that other thread when I said Shumpert was insanely overrated because he plays in NY? Yeah, you're getting to see it first-hand now...

Yes, then once he leaves NY, everyone will be on his dick.

Examples: Gallo, Chandler, Lee...

EDIT: ****, even Nate.

29$JerZ
07-01-2013, 02:50 PM
Yes, then once he leaves NY, everyone will be on his dick.

Examples: Gallo, Chandler, Lee...

The Gallo love after he got dealt was the worst

NYKnickFanatic
07-01-2013, 02:51 PM
The Gallo love after he got dealt was the worst

They are only good once they leave NY. :laugh2:

hugepatsfan
07-01-2013, 02:54 PM
I think people underestimate how much harder Bledsoe's offense is going to be when he becomes a full time starter. Right now he gets to be the go-to offensive player on a second unit usually playing against other second units. He's not the type of player that a team will build around as their #1 scorer so when he becomes a starter he's going to have to adjust to being a complimentary offensive player instead of the main guy. And also he'll be going against better players by being on the first unit. Finally, playing 35 minutes is just physically harder than playing 20 especially for a guy that relies on being as explosive as Bledsoe is. Fatigue will naturally lessen his speed/athleticism to some extent. People get carried away with Per 36 #s. Just using them like actual stats doesn't account for a lot of relevant factors.

And don't get me wrong I'm a huge Bledsoe fan. One of my favorite "prospects" in the NBA. I just think some people are a little out of control with him.

NYKnickFanatic
07-01-2013, 02:59 PM
I think people underestimate how much harder Bledsoe's offense is going to be when he becomes a full time starter. Right now he gets to be the go-to offensive player on a second unit usually playing against other second units. He's not the type of player that a team will build around as their #1 scorer so when he becomes a starter he's going to have to adjust to being a complimentary offensive player instead of the main guy. And also he'll be going against better players by being on the first unit. Finally, playing 35 minutes is just physically harder than playing 20 especially for a guy that relies on being as explosive as Bledsoe is. Fatigue will naturally lessen his speed/athleticism to some extent. People get carried away with Per 36 #s. Just using them like actual stats doesn't account for a lot of relevant factors.

And don't get me wrong I'm a huge Bledsoe fan. One of my favorite "prospects" in the NBA. I just think some people are a little out of control with him.

Nice post.

OceanSpray
07-01-2013, 03:02 PM
Wow, Knicks are entertaining all their players except Melo/Amare.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 03:02 PM
I think people underestimate how much harder Bledsoe's offense is going to be when he becomes a full time starter. Right now he gets to be the go-to offensive player on a second unit usually playing against other second units. He's not the type of player that a team will build around as their #1 scorer so when he becomes a starter he's going to have to adjust to being a complimentary offensive player instead of the main guy. And also he'll be going against better players by being on the first unit. Finally, playing 35 minutes is just physically harder than playing 20 especially for a guy that relies on being as explosive as Bledsoe is. Fatigue will naturally lessen his speed/athleticism to some extent. People get carried away with Per 36 #s. Just using them like actual stats doesn't account for a lot of relevant factors.

And don't get me wrong I'm a huge Bledsoe fan. One of my favorite "prospects" in the NBA. I just think some people are a little out of control with him.

Just from a pure eye test Bledsoe is the better all around player and I don't expect that to change much. Shump's offensive efficiency is HORRID. I agree with some posters here that PG's are much easier to find than wing players who can defend 3 positions.

greg_ory_2005
07-01-2013, 03:06 PM
Deandre Jordan is crap. Why would the Knicks wanna do this

hugepatsfan
07-01-2013, 03:08 PM
Just from a pure eye test Bledsoe is the better all around player and I don't expect that to change much. Shump's offensive efficiency is HORRID. I agree with some posters here that PG's are much easier to find than wing players who can defend 3 positions.

I don't disagree with any of that. I like Bledsoe more as well. But I didn't even mention Shumpert once in that post - I was talking solely on the projection of Bledsoe as a full time player and the obstacles he's going to face making that transition. There's a lot more to it than just looking at Per 36 #s.

shep33
07-01-2013, 03:08 PM
Doesn't make any sense for the Knicks. Shump >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JR. Cheaper too. No guarantees the Bledsoe re-ups either

smood999
07-01-2013, 03:09 PM
I mean .... Isn't Jordan's contract smaller than Tyson and Bledsoe and Shump basically the same ? So how arent the Knicks saving a Lil bit of cash that allows them to sign another SG ?

This is what you don't get and I think you said the same as far as the Knicks being more handcuffed after the Bargarni trade...once you're over the cap, you're over the cap...unless the Knicks are able to clear a significant amount to put them under the luxury threshold...adding 20 mil (which isn't possible, just an exaggeration) doesn't make a difference, neither does clearing 5 mil.

2-ONE-5
07-01-2013, 03:12 PM
would just be another move out of desperation by the Knicks

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 03:14 PM
I don't disagree with any of that. I like Bledsoe more as well. But I didn't even mention Shumpert once in that post - I was talking solely on the projection of Bledsoe as a full time player and the obstacles he's going to face making that transition. There's a lot more to it than just looking at Per 36 #s.

I don't disagree. Much easier to have better projected numbers in smaller samples where you can go all out as you said.

GiantsSwaGG
07-01-2013, 03:14 PM
Hell no. Jordan is trash. Tyson is better and it's not even close!

colinskik
07-01-2013, 03:16 PM
Let's get this out of the way before Knicks fans run this thread into the ground.

Eric Bledsoe:

Per 36: 15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.5 bpg. 44.5 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 79 from the stripe. PER of 17.5, WS/48 of .115


Iman Shumpert:

PER 36: 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg. 39.6 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 76.6 percent from the stripe. PER of 11.7, WS/48 of .094.


Tell me on which planet is Shump a better player? Their man defense is equal in terms of ability although Shump can obviously guard more positions. I'm a big Shump fan but stop it.

Another poster called you out perfectly earlier in this thread. The way you defend your argument makes it clear you know your team wins in this trade -- you're transparent.

Numbers are just numbers ... without context they don't tell the true story.

You do remember Shump's ACL tear? And how he basically only played half a season? And most of his playing time was cut down so in essence it was more of an in-game training for the playoffs? And did you watch any of the Knicks' playoff games this year? If you had you would've seen a completely revitalized and fresh Shumpert, one who you wouldn't have seen during the regular season.

In short, the Shumpert that was out there on the court in the playoffs is the players that Knicks fans hope can develop into a very special player. The one who was coming back from injury during the regular season, and thus compiled your stats, was not that player.

AI
07-01-2013, 03:19 PM
Why is this thread even open? This isn't being reported anywhere else and it's not a credible source. Just a Clippers fan who would love to rape the Knicks, but it's not happening.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 03:20 PM
Another poster called you out perfectly earlier in this thread. The way you defend your argument makes it clear you know your team wins in this trade -- you're transparent.

Numbers are just numbers ... without context they don't tell the true story.

You do remember Shump's ACL tear? And how he basically only played half a season? And most of his playing time was cut down so in essence it was more of an in-game training for the playoffs? And did you watch any of the Knicks' playoff games this year? If you had you would've seen a completely revitalized and fresh Shumpert, one who you wouldn't have seen during the regular season.

In short, the Shumpert that was out there on the court in the playoffs is the players that Knicks fans hope can develop into a very special player. The one who was coming back from injury during the regular season, and thus compiled your stats, was not that player.

Bledsoe had a bad hip injury that made his stats PLUMMET the last 2 months of the season or so. Look at his stats for the first 3 months of the year and the gap grows. His PER was superstar level the first two months.

BIG worm
07-01-2013, 03:22 PM
I dont get all the Bledsoe love. hes good off the bench but he is not an nba quality starting pg. i dont think his bball iq is high enough and he plays out of control on the offensive end. ive seen him play a lot and hes def not a scrub. he is just better suited coming off the bench. whoever trades for this guy to be there starter will regret it. Knicks should keep Shump...i know i would

GiantsSwaGG
07-01-2013, 03:22 PM
Why is this thread even open? This isn't being reported anywhere else and it's not a credible source. Just a Clippers fan who would love to rape the Knicks, but it's not happening.

Trading Tyson for Jordan alone is stupid. Jordan is trash and the clips are stuck with him for 3 more years!

NYY 26 to 7
07-01-2013, 03:22 PM
I would hate this. Why would we want two downgrade from both guys?

ztilzer31
07-01-2013, 03:25 PM
I think I'm the only one who think Tyson Chandler is extremely overrated. I thought him getting his *** kicked in the 2nd round would of made people realize this but I guess not...

I know Hibbert can be beast, but it's Tyson's job to shut him down. If you can't guard the big men in this era... then how good are you really?

GiantsSwaGG
07-01-2013, 03:27 PM
I think I'm the only one who think Tyson Chandler is extremely overrated. I thought him getting his *** kicked in the 2nd round would of made people realize this but I guess not...

I know Hibbert can be beast, but it's Tyson's job to shut him down. If you can't guard the big men in this era... then how good are you really?

Jordan is worst, that's the point

valade16
07-01-2013, 03:29 PM
Yes, then once he leaves NY, everyone will be on his dick.

Examples: Gallo, Chandler, Lee...

EDIT: ****, even Nate.


They are only good once they leave NY. :laugh2:

You're right, if anything there is a media bias against NY right? :rolleyes:


You do remember Shump's ACL tear? And how he basically only played half a season? And most of his playing time was cut down so in essence it was more of an in-game training for the playoffs? And did you watch any of the Knicks' playoff games this year? If you had you would've seen a completely revitalized and fresh Shumpert, one who you wouldn't have seen during the regular season.

In short, the Shumpert that was out there on the court in the playoffs is the players that Knicks fans hope can develop into a very special player. The one who was coming back from injury during the regular season, and thus compiled your stats, was not that player.

OK, look at his playoff numbers. 14.2 PER and a 41% FG (.528 TS%). He is a quality player, but the crazy amount of overratedness he receives is insane.

1_team_1_dream
07-01-2013, 03:31 PM
Andrew Luces ⚾ ‏@Andrew_Luces 2m
League source: "#Knicks haven't offered Tyson Chandler in any trade, but they wouldn't turn down a good offer." NYK = known to surprise ..

colinskik
07-01-2013, 03:32 PM
Bledsoe had a bad hip injury that made his stats PLUMMET the last 2 months of the season or so. Look at his stats for the first 3 months of the year and the gap grows. His PER was superstar level the first two months.

That may be all well and true, but my point wasn't to put down Bledsoe and his talents, which I agree are special.

I'm only saying that the Shumpert who played during the entirety of the regular season was held back, mostly by the coaching staff, and was really a shell of the player who we saw in portions of the 2012 season, and more specifically this year's playoffs.

Also, i really liked the post about Bledsoe transitioning to a starter. That always scares me a bit after seeing what happened to Darren Collison when he got his opportunity as a starter. And oddly enough his greatest success came as a backup to Chris Paul. Not saying Bledsoe would fall off horribly once he got the keys to the car, but you can't assume he'll produce at the same level with more pressure, minutes, etc..

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 03:33 PM
You're right, if anything there is a media bias against NY right? :rolleyes:



OK, look at his playoff numbers. 14.2 PER and a 41% FG (.528 TS%). He is a quality player, but the crazy amount of overratedness he receives is insane.

Knicks fans act like he's the franchise player of the near future.

yungincome
07-01-2013, 03:33 PM
No! :facepalm:

nycericanguy
07-01-2013, 03:34 PM
FAKE rumor started by a known bad source.

Makes zero sense for NY.

Chandler has 3-4 years left in him, and he's a much better all around player than DJ.

Shump & Bledsoe is debatable, but consider that due to a shortened season, and then the ACL, Shump has only played about 100 games, 30-40 of which he was just working his way back in.

Bledsoe has nearly twice as many NBA games under his belt and hasn't really broken out.

I'd take Shump over Bledsoe. But again, even if they are even CHandler is much better than DJ.

Chandler for DJ & Bledsoe would seem more fair and realistic.

True Sports Fan
07-01-2013, 03:35 PM
Let's get this out of the way before Knicks fans run this thread into the ground.

Eric Bledsoe:

Per 36: 15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.5 bpg. 44.5 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 79 from the stripe. PER of 17.5, WS/48 of .115


Iman Shumpert:

PER 36: 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg. 39.6 percent shooting from the field, 40 percent from deep, 76.6 percent from the stripe. PER of 11.7, WS/48 of .094.


Tell me on which planet is Shump a better player? Their man defense is equal in terms of ability although Shump can obviously guard more positions. I'm a big Shump fan but stop it.

:laugh: at people using per 36 to say anyone is better... If he legit was gonna average 15 PPG 5 APG and 2.5 APG, he'd be starting elsewhere. :facepalm:

Either way, hate it for the Knicks Felton - ? - Melo - Bargs - Jordan? That'd only work on 2k.. Second thought that wouldn't even work on 2k.

colinskik
07-01-2013, 03:36 PM
OK, look at his playoff numbers. 14.2 PER and a 41% FG (.528 TS%). He is a quality player, but the crazy amount of overratedness he receives is insane.[/QUOTE]

If you're one of these guys who measures players strictly on numbers then we might as well end the conversation here.

I watched 95% of the Knicks games this season and every postseason game. Shumpert was the type of player during the playoffs who made things happen. He was coming through in the clutch. Your numbers might suggest he was only an above average player in the playoffs, but if you watched the games you might have a different take.

NYKnicks4511
07-01-2013, 03:39 PM
Bledsoe had a bad hip injury that made his stats PLUMMET the last 2 months of the season or so. Look at his stats for the first 3 months of the year and the gap grows. His PER was superstar level the first two months.

My dude, I know you're trying to sell your point of view, but given the fact that your 'analysis' was flawed, nobody's buying. Shumpert's stats are clearly diluted by his injury (way worse than the sore hip that Bledsoe had). While it's debatable who'll be better in the long run (I still say Shumpert quite handily), Tyson Chandler trumps DeAndre bonehead Jordan any day of the week. Sorry Clips fans, but keep dreaming, this trade ain't happening.

True Sports Fan
07-01-2013, 03:40 PM
Plus aren't you guys going after Tony Allen ? Wouldn't this trade help you do that if Jordan make less money than Tyson ?

Couldn't they just throw him portion of the MLE rather then trade a probably considerable equal too or better SG then Allen and add a Tyson for Jordan, who is basically a liability in late games. If Knicks resign J.R then it makes more sense, even then I wouldn't be interested in the deal.

FYL_McVeezy
07-01-2013, 03:42 PM
I would puke my intestines out and burn every piece of Knicks gear I have if this goes down....

This trade would be Isiah Thomas bad :facepalm:

nycericanguy
07-01-2013, 03:43 PM
Jared Zwerling @JaredZwerling about 15 minutes ago
League source: "#Knicks haven't offered Tyson Chandler in any trade, but they wouldn't turn down a good offer." NYK = known to surprise ...

valade16
07-01-2013, 03:50 PM
If you're one of these guys who measures players strictly on numbers then we might as well end the conversation here.

I watched 95% of the Knicks games this season and every postseason game. Shumpert was the type of player during the playoffs who made things happen. He was coming through in the clutch. Your numbers might suggest he was only an above average player in the playoffs, but if you watched the games you might have a different take.[/QUOTE]

He's good. But he's not nearly as good as you're making out. An example, you've seen 95% of Knicks games. tootles. How many Clippers games did you watch? How do you know Bledsoe doesn't provide the same intangible benefits Shumpert does?

Bledsoe does a lot that doesn't show up on the stat sheet as well. To say with any certainty that Shumpert is better than Bledsoe is ridiculous.

Avenged
07-01-2013, 03:52 PM
Knicks fans... you want this.... I can sense it.

haha. id want to get rid of DJ too... just not a fan of his.

AI
07-01-2013, 03:59 PM
TommyDeeTKB: @NBARUMORS: Rumor: Iman Shumpert and Tyson Chandler for Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan. Denials everywhere

Please close this thread. Fake source, this will never happen.

Jarvo
07-01-2013, 04:08 PM
Knicks :laugh:

colinskik
07-01-2013, 04:09 PM
He's good. But he's not nearly as good as you're making out. An example, you've seen 95% of Knicks games. tootles. How many Clippers games did you watch? How do you know Bledsoe doesn't provide the same intangible benefits Shumpert does?

Bledsoe does a lot that doesn't show up on the stat sheet as well. To say with any certainty that Shumpert is better than Bledsoe is ridiculous.

I never said Shumpert is better than Bledsoe ... although I do think he is the better player, I never wrote that.

I'm only trying to argue the point that Clippersfan made with his PER numbers, which basically indicates Bledsoe is head and shoulders a better player than Shump. It's inaccurate to use that for reference.

But to answer your other question, i watched a good amount of Clippers games this past season. No where near the amount of Knicks games I watched, but I was interested to see how the Clips played so I tuned in. Also watched the majority of their playoff games.

Not sure what that proves. Again, only trying to point out that I watched a bunch of Knicks games last year and saw the two sides of Shumpert, one of which was clearly rusty and working his way back from injury, and one who was a completely different player who impacted the game. You can call it whatever type of NY hype you want, but if Shump can improve upon his playoff performance he has a great chance of becoming a very important player for a great team. (Not saying the Knicks will be that great team, just mean that he can be a vital piece to a great team, he's really that good.)

It seems like more than anything else you don't want to give Shumpert credit because he plays for the Knicks, which isn't something new on this site so it's really not that surprising.

Chronz
07-01-2013, 04:20 PM
:laugh: at people using per 36 to say anyone is better... If he legit was gonna average 15 PPG 5 APG and 2.5 APG, he'd be starting elsewhere.
Care to explain how Bledsoe is going to start when we have Chris Paul? :facepalm:


Either way, hate it for the Knicks Felton - ? - Melo - Bargs - Jordan? That'd only work on 2k.. Second thought that wouldn't even work on 2k.

I can drop 40 with Tmac, if you cant win with that squad, you suck.

MonroeFAN
07-01-2013, 04:25 PM
This sounds like an awesome trade for both teams.

Although I suppose it does benefit LAC more than NY.

SMH!
07-01-2013, 04:31 PM
How many threads will one man make? Cant this be posted in another rumors thread?

valade16
07-01-2013, 04:34 PM
I never said Shumpert is better than Bledsoe ... although I do think he is the better player, I never wrote that.

I'm only trying to argue the point that Clippersfan made with his PER numbers, which basically indicates Bledsoe is head and shoulders a better player than Shump. It's inaccurate to use that for reference.

But to answer your other question, i watched a good amount of Clippers games this past season. No where near the amount of Knicks games I watched, but I was interested to see how the Clips played so I tuned in. Also watched the majority of their playoff games.

Not sure what that proves. Again, only trying to point out that I watched a bunch of Knicks games last year and saw the two sides of Shumpert, one of which was clearly rusty and working his way back from injury, and one who was a completely different player who impacted the game. You can call it whatever type of NY hype you want, but if Shump can improve upon his playoff performance he has a great chance of becoming a very important player for a great team. (Not saying the Knicks will be that great team, just mean that he can be a vital piece to a great team, he's really that good.)

It seems like more than anything else you don't want to give Shumpert credit because he plays for the Knicks, which isn't something new on this site so it's really not that surprising.

That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm a Blazer fan (born and raised in Portland, OR) but my "east coast" team is the Knicks (mainly because my first name is Nick, and I LOVED Allan Houston back in the day). I want them to do good.

I just have noticed that Shumpert is treated as if he's an all-star caliber player by some people on here. There are many reasons to not want to swap Bledsoe with Shumpert, but talent disparity is not one of them...

Mcdoh
07-01-2013, 04:35 PM
@ramonashelburne

Rumblings that Clippers and Bucks are discussing deal involving JJ Redick and Eric Bledsoe.

s3antana5757
07-01-2013, 04:41 PM
@ramonashelburne

Rumblings that Clippers and Bucks are discussing deal involving JJ Redick and Eric Bledsoe.

That'd be bad for LA. Clips seem intent on trading Bledsoe.

Chronz
07-01-2013, 04:41 PM
I think people underestimate how much harder Bledsoe's offense is going to be when he becomes a full time starter.
Why do people think this? What makes Bledsoe so different from the average player who gets promoted? Shouldnt he get the benefit of the doubt given what hes accomplished in his role? I would have less faith in his ability as a starter if he was struggling when playing against starters but this is the 2nd consecutive playoff run where he was arguably the 2nd best player on the team. Playoff competition has revealed the invisibility of DeAndre twice now, there is far more doubt in his ability to start than Bledsoe right?


Right now he gets to be the go-to offensive player on a second unit usually playing against other second units. He's not the type of player that a team will build around as their #1 scorer so when he becomes a starter he's going to have to adjust to being a complimentary offensive player instead of the main guy. And also he'll be going against better players by being on the first unit. Finally, playing 35 minutes is just physically harder than playing 20 especially for a guy that relies on being as explosive as Bledsoe is. Fatigue will naturally lessen his speed/athleticism to some extent. People get carried away with Per 36 #s. Just using them like actual stats doesn't account for a lot of relevant factors.
Thing is, NOBODY knows how its going to effect him. Everything you said can be true, but in my biased opinion, its more likely that you're utterly wrong in his case. Firstly, playing 35 minutes is roughly the figure stat-heads have found to correlate with optimal efficiency, why is Bledsoe (a supremely conditioned athlete) more likely to suffer? That 29-34 range IIRC is optimal but for a guy as explosive as him, I actually think more minutes help his game. Kind of like how AI felt he was at his best when he never sat.

As for his play style, thats more about fit than anything, but yes there are some issues with a non-floor spacing/non-facilitating PG's. Aside from sitting behind the best PG in the game, a player this productive only gets so few minutes for 3 reasons; a dumb coach (not sure), he is like you said, a purely energetic player that cant sustain his energy for more than a few short bursts (possible) or hes not capable of blending in (synergy wise) with certain lineups (very likely).



And don't get me wrong I'm a huge Bledsoe fan. One of my favorite "prospects" in the NBA. I just think some people are a little out of control with him.

I think people get out of control with telling us to calm down on him. Maybe he suffers, maybe he thrives, contextually, Im sure we can go back and forth on his talent but we can both agree, neither outcome would be a surprise. If he thrives it shouldn't be looked at as some major improvement in his game, if he suffers it will be the beginning of an indictment on his career but I have hope.

Chronz
07-01-2013, 04:43 PM
That'd be bad for LA. Clips seem intent on trading Bledsoe.

Thats prolly the best deal Ive heard of yet

Chronz
07-01-2013, 04:43 PM
dp

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 04:44 PM
That'd be bad for LA. Clips seem intent on trading Bledsoe.

John Henson would likely be demanded too, especially since Redick made it clear he's not returning to Milwaukee anyways. So if they get ANY value in return it would be great for them.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 04:46 PM
That'd be bad for LA. Clips seem intent on trading Bledsoe.

John Henson would likely be demanded too, especially since Redick made it clear he's not returning to Milwaukee anyways. So if they get ANY value in return it would be great for them.

Green_Monster
07-01-2013, 05:42 PM
Hell no. Jordan is trash. Tyson is better and it's not even close!

Tyson wasn't even that much better than Jordan last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=chandty01&y1=2013&p2=jordade01&y2=2013

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-01-2013, 05:45 PM
Rumors heavy with Bucks sign and trade of Redick for Bledsoe. Maybe if deal gets large Butler gets tossed in and maybe another Buck.

GiantsSwaGG
07-01-2013, 05:50 PM
Tyson wasn't even that much better than Jordan last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=chandty01&y1=2013&p2=jordade01&y2=2013

But he's still better!

Cracka2HI!
07-01-2013, 05:51 PM
Don't have to read the thread to know Knicks fan hates this idea. They'd want Blake plus for Shumpert. I'm sure they call DJ trash, but he was about as good as Chandler in the playoffs and is no where close to as near the end of the line. Bledose >>Shump IMO. I wouldn't be too happy about this trade as a Clippers fan, but it does make some sense.

I like the Reddick rumor more, however will he really cost more than the MLE? It would be pretty cool to nab Reddick and still have Bledsoe!

Green_Monster
07-01-2013, 05:52 PM
But he's still better!

Bledsoe was better than Shumpert last year. So...

AI
07-01-2013, 05:53 PM
Tyson wasn't even that much better than Jordan last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=chandty01&y1=2013&p2=jordade01&y2=2013

Track records speak for themselves.

In a down year Tyson was still better than Jordan, thanks for proving just how better he is.

Green_Monster
07-01-2013, 05:58 PM
Track records speak for themselves.

In a down year Tyson was still better than Jordan, thanks for proving just how better he is.

He put up his 3rd highest PER, TS%, eFG%, and WS/48 stats of his career. Not to mention several other less used stats.

AI
07-01-2013, 06:00 PM
Bledsoe was better than Shumpert last year. So...

What part of us trading our starting SG for a backup PG not making sense don't you understand? Both are high upside players but right now Shumpert is more valuable to the Knicks than Bledsoe would be. Not to mention that Chandler is by far the superior player to DeAndre.

cssdmark
07-01-2013, 06:03 PM
HELl TO THE NO. HOW ABOUT BLAKE GRIFFIN AND BLEDSOE FOR TYSON CHANDLER AND SHUMPERT. NO A MATTER OF FACT WE WILL TAKE BLEDSOE, ASIK AND SCHVED FOR TYSON AND FELTON

Green_Monster
07-01-2013, 06:05 PM
What part of us trading our starting SG for a backup PG not making sense don't you understand? Both are high upside players but right now Shumpert is more valuable to the Knicks than Bledsoe would be. Not to mention that Chandler is by far the superior player to DeAndre.

I never said Shumpert is less valuable to the Knicks than Bledsoe, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I said Bledsoe was better. Bledsoe put up a PER of 17.5 compared to Shumpert's 11.7 PER. One stats doesn't tell everything, but when they're that far apart, it says something.

kyubi256
07-01-2013, 06:09 PM
If the Knicks were to make this trade, it would mean to me that they truly don't think the roster will win it all and are probably stockpiling for a 2015 run, where they can get a lot more trade pieces that other teams may want

smood999
07-01-2013, 06:10 PM
I never said Shumpert is less valuable to the Knicks than Bledsoe, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I said Bledsoe was better. Bledsoe put up a PER of 17.5 compared to Shumpert's 11.7 PER. One stats doesn't tell everything, but when they're that far apart, it says something.

I think Bledsoe has more upside, but ACL injury...the same one that Rose didn't even come back from and it took Rubio how long before he started playing well? Those numbers don't tell the whole story...

Chronz
07-01-2013, 06:25 PM
He put up his 3rd highest PER, TS%, eFG%, and WS/48 stats of his career. Not to mention several other less used stats.
TC was still demonstrably better tho.

The playoffs exposed DJ far more harshly IMO. But its the intangibles that separate the 2, I cant fully explain DJ's dropoff defensively this year, I have a few theories but even at his best, DJ cant touch Tyson.

Defensive +/- and spacial analysis is more favorable to Chandler than DJ, and its not even close


Tho DJ has the potential to become what Chandler already is in this regard, there is still room for him to grow if you recall what Chandler looked like at the same stage.

AI
07-01-2013, 06:25 PM
I never said Shumpert is less valuable to the Knicks than Bledsoe, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I said Bledsoe was better. Bledsoe put up a PER of 17.5 compared to Shumpert's 11.7 PER. One stats doesn't tell everything, but when they're that far apart, it says something.

So comparing their PER tells just how far apart they are? They are actually close and I would honestly keep Shumpert because he fits a need. Shumpert came back from an ACL injury so looking at this years numbers is very unfair. He looked like a completely different player in the playoffs at times, let's see how he does this year. Long-term, I think Shumpert will be the better player for the Knicks. This is not even factoring that we'd be significantly downgrading at C from Chandler to DJ. This move doesn't fill a need for the NYK, it actually creates a hole at SG and makes our team worse. This trade is extremely one-sided in favor of the Clippers.

Green_Monster
07-01-2013, 06:35 PM
TC was still demonstrably better tho.

The playoffs exposed DJ far more harshly IMO. But its the intangibles that separate the 2, I cant fully explain DJ's dropoff defensively this year, I have a few theories but even at his best, DJ cant touch Tyson.

Defensive +/- and spacial analysis is more favorable to Chandler than DJ, and its not even close


Tho DJ has the potential to become what Chandler already is in this regard, there is still room for him to grow if you recall what Chandler looked like at the same stage.

Yeah, Chandler was better, for sure. But they advanced numbers show that it wasn't as large as a gap as everyone claims it to be.

Agreed on your last point. Tyson wasn't anything special up until 3 years ago. DJ could eventually become a solid NBA player, or as some say, he could've already reached his peak.

Green_Monster
07-01-2013, 06:40 PM
So comparing their PER tells just how far apart they are? They are actually close and I would honestly keep Shumpert because he fits a need. Shumpert came back from an ACL injury so looking at this years numbers is very unfair. He looked like a completely different player in the playoffs at times, let's see how he does this year. Long-term, I think Shumpert will be the better player for the Knicks. This is not even factoring that we'd be significantly downgrading at C from Chandler to DJ. This move doesn't fill a need for the NYK, it actually creates a hole at SG and makes our team worse. This trade is extremely one-sided in favor of the Clippers.

I said in my post that one stat doesn't tell everything, did you read that?

What other numbers should I look? His rookie numbers were worse, but I'll use those if you want. Shumpert is becoming so overrated is scary. I'm always hearing how he's going to be a no doubt all star and is the Knicks next franchise player.

Aust
07-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Not a very good trade. Wondering the cap implications of this. You also must account for any future contract extensions you will be signing for the players involved.

AI
07-01-2013, 06:49 PM
I said in my post that one stat doesn't tell everything, did you read that?

What other numbers should I look? His rookie numbers were worse, but I'll use those if you want. Shumpert is becoming so overrated is scary. I'm always hearing how he's going to be a no doubt all star and is the Knicks next franchise player.

Who the hell is calling him an all-star or franchise player? He's a young, high-upside SG who plays incredible defense and is currently a very good role player for the Knicks. His jump-shot this year was much improved.

He turned 23 a couple of days ago, so yeah, there's reason to believe he'll be a very good player but nobody in this thread has called him an all-star. Are we not allowed to be excited about young/solid players or are we only permitted to get excited about All-Stars? Please tell me so everybody can stop *****ing about the Knicks and Shumpert already.

nycericanguy
07-01-2013, 06:52 PM
I never said Shumpert is less valuable to the Knicks than Bledsoe, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I said Bledsoe was better. Bledsoe put up a PER of 17.5 compared to Shumpert's 11.7 PER. One stats doesn't tell everything, but when they're that far apart, it says something.

Bledsoe also has almost twice as many NBA games under his belt, and Shump was, admittedly, TRASH for the first 30 games or so following the ACL.

It takes a while to recover from that and regain your explosiveness. Not to mention he was on a minutes limit for a while because of it.

Comparing PER from last year is just silly TBH.

PV2nice
07-01-2013, 06:53 PM
Knick fan here:

Bledsoe vs Iman is so close of an argument that skill set wise should be put to the side in favor of "NEED".
Knicks need consistent shooters and Bledsoe has an edge. Knicks need another PG who can also play the 2 when playing small ball along side Felton and Bledsoe fits right in. Both are very young yet one has had major surgery thus far. Iman was born to be a NYer but putting feelings aside and Bledsoe has an edge in terms of overall skill set and what the Knicks need.

Now lets look at Tyson vs DJ... Without getting to detailed Tyson overall is much better when you factor in leadership,experience and a superior FT shooter compared to DJ. DJ needs to be pulled during close games due to his poor FT shooting and a waste of minutes due to it. HOWEVER he is much younger, more durable and would come with his bird rights if I'm not mistaken. Add that to 4 million dollars saved if this trade were true and now your talking Bledsoe/DJ and (Kmart, Tony Allen, JJ Hickson, Nick Young etc etc if allowed to use that money for one of these players "hard cap" and still have the mini mid level) for Iman/Tyson than it's a no brainer!

Clippers are so in need to make Cp3 happy they'd probably throw in a 1st rounder we so desperately need considering we have very little till 2016.

Let's face it no matter what Miami isn't going anywhere for the next two years so most likely every other NBA team will be building to keep up with them so why not try something different. Tyson/DJ contracts expire at the same time and if kept healthy DJ/Bleadsoe is a much sexier sign and trade bait than Iman/Tyson around 2015 free agency when K Love, Marc Gasol, Lamarcus Aldridge, Rondo, Gay etc are available.

I'd do this only if it allowed us flexibility to add more payers to help out Melo. You have to give up something to gain something (takes money to make money)!!!

Green_Monster
07-01-2013, 06:57 PM
Who the hell is calling him an all-star or franchise player? He's a young, high-upside SG who plays incredible defense and is currently a very good role player for the Knicks. His jump-shot this year was much improved.

He turned 23 a couple of days ago, so yeah, there's reason to believe he'll be a very good player but nobody in this thread has called him an all-star. Are we not allowed to be excited about young/solid players or are we only permitted to get excited about All-Stars? Please tell me so everybody can stop *****ing about the Knicks and Shumpert already.

Apparently you wern't in the "Rondo to the Knicks" thread. No, it's incredibly stupid to overhype a guy who put up average stats last year.


Bledsoe also has almost twice as many NBA games under his belt, and Shump was, admittedly, TRASH for the first 30 games or so following the ACL.

It takes a while to recover from that and regain your explosiveness. Not to mention he was on a minutes limit for a while because of it.

Comparing PER from last year is just silly TBH.

Why is it silly? Because it doesn't favor Shumpert?

AI
07-01-2013, 06:59 PM
You guys do realize that the Knicks could probably do Chandler for DJ and Bledsoe straight up right? Or flip Chandler for a similar package because of the lack of quality C's available. Adding Shumpert to the deal is just asinine.

PV2nice
07-01-2013, 07:09 PM
You guys do realize that the Knicks could probably do Chandler for DJ and Bledsoe straight up right? Or flip Chandler for a similar package because of the lack of quality C's available. Adding Shumpert to the deal is just asinine.

Chandler is showing his age and was hurt last year and will probably trend this way going forward and was also exposed by Hibbert. No way 2 for 1 happens here.

BklynKnicks3
07-01-2013, 10:37 PM
that is horrible for knicks. I tell u what makes sense for all 3 teams

clippers get shump chandler

knicks get rondo

celtics get bledsoe jordan

AI
07-02-2013, 12:09 AM
Chandler is showing his age and was hurt last year and will probably trend this way going forward and was also exposed by Hibbert. No way 2 for 1 happens here.

Yet you fail to mention how Chandler lost 15 pounds due to injury and was never himself when the playoffs started. This "he was exposed" allegations are completely off base.

Young2Kinsler
07-02-2013, 12:20 AM
Another rumor I keep hearing with Bledsoe is being traded in a S&T for Mayo

Kashmir13579
07-02-2013, 12:24 AM
This is not happening might as well close this thread

AI
07-02-2013, 12:27 AM
Bledsoe for one of Mayo/Reddick/Afflalo is the most likely scenario. Butler will probably be included in any deal.

This deal between NY and LA however has no legs and has been flat out denied yet the thread is still open.